The End of Mankind --- 2012

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Okay, here's the deal. I personally don't believe in this whole 2012 thing simply because I'm an optimist.

But I was with some family members who truly believe we are done for on 2012. Be it the end of the world or just something that will change the world as we know it...they 100% believe its real and its coming.

So for those of you who believe the same, I will ask you the same question I ask them:


If you really believe 2012 is real, why don't you live your life like it's real?


I'm not saying to take all the money out of your retirement account and quit working (though you should in theory if you are 100% certain we are done for) but help me understand why your actions aren't aligned with your beliefs!
  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    You're right.

    Screw work tommorrow. I'm going fishing.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Kenster,

    I gave up being optimistic about 40 years ago.

    I could see the world as we know it ending NEXT year!

    Still, I'm too chicken to drop everything for a few years, OR FEW MOMENTS, of enjoyment.
    I will probably die right on my first day of retirement anyway.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Um...........it's two years off. If we all quit making money now, how exactly will we be able to afford survival supplies and transportation to get to survival locations or the money to build one....................or more importantly, the money to party like there's no tomorrow?
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  • Profile picture of the author prettypretty
    The topic has been talked about for many times. I don't believe it myself. But we must protect the earth and the environment, or the end will come sooner or later.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      I was at a company party back in 1991 and some dude who worked for one of our venders replied to someone else with "It doesn't matter anyway...the Earth will crash into the Sun by the year 2000, so what's the point of worrying about it."

      Unfortunately for him he was serious. He really thought that was the case.

      Talk about an 'instant credibilty bomb'...:rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author onlinebutik
      Originally Posted by prettypretty View Post

      The topic has been talked about for many times. I don't believe it myself. But we must protect the earth and the environment, or the end will come sooner or later.
      i agree with this statement

      i really dont believe about 2012 is real... but one thing if we dont protect the earth and the environment i think it will happen.. sooner or later
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  • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
    People were also worried and terrified about Y2K.

    And you're right. If you truly believe the end of the world is coming in 2 years live it up. Quit your job. Stop working. Sell your house. Cash out your 401K. Max out your credit cards. Take out loans galore. Travel the world and live it up having fun since the world is ending in 2012.

    Most people will not do that because deep down they know the world is not coming to an end.
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    • Profile picture of the author Leanneraymond
      Originally Posted by Michael55555 View Post

      Marty McFly has been to 2015, so I doubt it.

      Hahaha this made me laugh. I love it. Thanks for that one.
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  • Profile picture of the author secrets2010
    Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

    Okay, here's the deal. I personally don't believe in this whole 2012 thing simply because I'm an optimist.

    But I was with some family members who truly believe we are done for on 2012. Be it the end of the world or just something that will change the world as we know it...they 100% believe its real and its coming.

    So for those of you who believe the same, I will ask you the same question I ask them:


    If you really believe 2012 is real, why don't you live your life like it's real?


    I'm not saying to take all the money out of your retirement account and quit working (though you should in theory if you are 100% certain we are done for) but help me understand why your actions aren't aligned with your beliefs!


    "If you really believe 2012 is real, why don't you live your life like it's real?"

    you are so right...actually everybody should live life like that...myself too...we work hard, and so many hours...but the most important thing is to enjoy life...
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  • Profile picture of the author un
    If anyone here truly believes we are done for in 2012, you may freely transfer all of your web properties over to me. I will take good care of them for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author silverwaterfall
    This whole 2012 thing has been wildly misunderstood. The Mayans did not predict the end of the world. Their calendar was just meant to re-start in 2012.

    If you're concerned, read more on sites like these:

    No Doomsday in 2012 | Universe Today

    NASA - 2012: Beginning of the End or Why the World Won't End?

    Kenster, I hope your family can learn to relax and not be so worried.
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  • Profile picture of the author zengetsu
    I was talking about this with one of my friend's earlier. If you actually Google it about the Mayan calendar they do not believe it is the end of the world. They Mayans believed in 2012 that there would be a change in the world. It could be many things days may get longer or shorter for some reason? What they do not say is that it will be the end of the world. You know how many times people have said "it will be the end of the world blah blah blah"? Does the world ever end, No.
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  • Profile picture of the author raradra
    The Mayan calendar ending signifies a changing event. I don't believe it will be extinction.
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  • Profile picture of the author James_Harkin
    One thing I have learned about reality and those who believe this is their planet to do whatever they want is that they try to make you live in the past and/or in the future, instead of the now. They have many techniques to keep your eyes off the ball...

    In the now people can make a difference if they are living in the past or future, what can be done. The powers that be understand this and manipulate so their agenda can continue to roll out, while those who want to make a difference are waiting for a miracle or some kind of extra-terrestrial biological entity to save them.

    The 2012 phenomenon keeps you in the future. However, when 2012 comes and nothing as predicted happens ... there will be another date further in the future for people to concentrate on while your rights and freedoms are legislated away so that you really are enslaved in a 1984 and Brave New World scenario.

    It is now that you must be the change you want to see in the world. Not tomorrow or next Thursday. If everyone made the change the world would be a different and much more peaceful place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andie
    Kenster,

    The end of mankind does not concern me too much.
    If they begin to proclaim the end of womankind - then the world will be in trubble!!:p


    Andie
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  • Profile picture of the author jokarl
    I dont even understand how people can belive in such a thing. Why not belive in yourself instead and do your best to be a good human? The world will end one day but noone know when. But when it happends we might already live on other planets.
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  • Most folks either live in the past or worry about the future...letting the NOW pass them by.

    I choose not to worry about it because in every moment of every day I can mold my life into what I want it to be.

    We get what we think about and those folks worried about 2012 will, in some way, attract some sort of change to their lives.
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  • Profile picture of the author richjo
    The calendar in my kitchen runs out on December 31st this year.

    I'm not too worried though, I'll probably get a new one for Christmas
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    What if the world ends in 2012??? What could you do about it? Nothing!!!

    yeah you could give up everything, max out your credit cards and enjoy every minute of it - then when the world continues you look like a complete dick for doing it and you are in debt for the rest of your life.

    No-one knows when the world will end! It might not happen in our lifetime. Hey you could get hit by a bus tomorrow - who knows what will happen in the future. You should just live each day as it comes and enjoy life as much as you can anyway!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I don't mind a change of lifestyle too much -- but I'm busy in 2013 so won't be available to attend the end of the world. Everyone else, have fun.
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  • Profile picture of the author MCD
    It is entirely possible for our existence to expire any moment now. If our magnetic field were to shift we would be unprotected from cosmic radiation. It would erase any trace of us.

    When given the eternal nature of existence, it is easy to see that man has only dominated this little rock for a short time. It has existed for billions of years before us, and will exist for a hundred billion more after we perish.
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    • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
      Originally Posted by MCD View Post

      It is entirely possible for our existence to expire any moment now. If our magnetic field were to shift we would be unprotected from cosmic radiation. It would erase any trace of us.

      When given the eternal nature of existence, it is easy to see that man has only dominated this little rock for a short time. It has existed for billions of years before us, and will exist for a hundred billion more after we perish.
      About 5 billion more years to be exact, as that is the time our sun will be growing into a red giant and will envelope Mercury and Venus and almost Earth. Earth will be worse than mercury is now, making it completely uninhabitable by any life of course. By then we will either be extinct or populating other planets.
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  • Profile picture of the author ngseosept
    I don't believe on that prophecy that mankind will put into extinction on 2012. Just love life, smile and enjoy everyday of our time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
    I believe their will be some big changes come 2012, but it is not Armageddon.The Mayans clearly show we are just ending one cycle and moving into another. Although some people think we may be evolving spiritually, and those who are ready will benefit greatly while the rest are left to deal with the war, famine, disease. And yet some think we will have a sudden pole shift due to a rogue planet that is to pass through our solar system in late 2012.

    Most people think we will all perish. I think there will be a war, but I believe what is going to come from that war will change EVERYONE'S lives forever.

    I am hoping it will be the end of our current monetary system. Andrew Jackson had it right when he created greenbacks, we don't need anyone to make and supply us our money. The federal reserve is crooked and Jackson knew it, that's why the bill to instate the federal reserve was denied twice before being passed in 1933 when the rich and crooked had enough of their own people in office to get the votes.

    Most people don't know this, but the Federal Reserve (which is the place where all US money is printed) is not owned by the US. There is nothing federal about it. It is owned by mostly the top Eurpean bankers like the Rothchilds, Schiffs, Warbergs etc and some US bankers as well.

    The US current monetary system (which is the same pretty much here in Canada) is a HUGE crooked scam.

    We live in a debt based society that can never be resolved. There will never be enough money in the system to cover what is owed. Between fractional reserve banking, interest and income tax, the federal reserve has everyone by the balls, especially the US government who borrows their money from the federal reserve, at interest of course.

    The only way the economy and is going to change is to get rid of the federal reserve and considering the rich and elite literally control who our so called choices are for president, it's going to take a civil war or a complete colapse of our current monetary system. After that I doubt people will allow the same mistakes to happen again.

    Anyway, that's my rant, and I am hoping what ever happen n 2012 we will see some changes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tyrin
    Simple be practical.You don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.live every moment with fullest.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Originally Posted by Kenster View Post

    Okay, here's the deal. I personally don't believe in this whole 2012 thing simply because I'm an optimist.
    How about not believing it because it's a complete load of total BS?

    That's why I don't believe it.

    And for the record, my list of such things is quite long.

    Hey, if people want to deceive themselves and believe kooky nonsense, they are entitled to do so. But being a pessimist or optimist has nothing to do with it, IMHO.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author jazbo
    Mankind always has and always will believe in the end of the world happening fast. why do you think the global warming thing has gained so much traction when there is scientifically still an awful lot of unknowns.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob141
    It could end in 2012 but it's just as likely to end in the next 10 seconds or tomorrow or next week or in millions of years time.
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  • The theory of the world ending in 2012 isn't true, it's just a silly hoax. The world isn't going to end on December 21, 2012, just the Mayan Calendar ends. One of several Mayan calendars is the Long Count calendar, which is reset to day 0 every 1,872,000 days or 7057.5 years. The next reset date, by some calculations, is December 21, 2012. This is not a prediction of the end of the world. The Mayan Calendar has to end sometime and did you know when the Mayan Calendar ended the Mayans would celebrate? Besides, nobody can't predict when the end of the world is. You shouldn't always believe what you hear from other people. The scientific evidence about 2012 doesn't go together.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      The scientific evidence about 2012 doesn't go together.
      Ya think?

      It's amazing with all the drama and crises we have today - people look for things to worry about, isn't it?

      If mankind ends in 2012, womankind will just have to take over. Wait - we did that already, didn't we?

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author chooch
    All of the planets have aligned a few times in the past 100 years. Nothing really bad happened then. So I think nothing will happen this time around either.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It's not the planetary alignment alone that has people freakin' -- it's the alignment of the arm of the galaxy with the center.

    But - Nostradamus has always been followed closely and many believe in his predictions..........and he has one for 2039. hmmm.

    Actually I can't figure out where the end of the world stuff came from. What was actually said was that we will enter a different vibrational frequency - it's a shift in the energy. Technically that could make us less material and more energy, but it's not supposed to be end of the world stuff. I don't know where the end of the world stuff came in to it. Whoever started it though really did a good job with marketing their paranoi......um........idea.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
    I totally disagree with this prediction... I'm so confident that this won't happen, I'd go so far to say that, I'd kill myself if this ever happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author opiniones
    I think people mis-understand the prophecies.

    It's not the end of the world, it's the end of the WHITE MAN'S WORLD.

    Read what's in bold. 2012 is the beginning of the end of the current rulership/age (white man's age) and the dawn of a new rulership and global age. This is what native americans and other seers speak of.

    When you read about 2012 it talks about the end of this age and the beginning of a new one. It doesn't talk about everyone dying and the world being destroyed.


    In other words the current system we live in (the white man's system) of credit, debt, computers, technology, working 9-5, living paycheck to paycheck, poverty, world hunger, paper money etc etc will be replaced by something better.

    However, it doesn't mean that everyone will make it as most people will die in the coming cataclysms, war, man made diseases that will be unleashed.

    The universe is ruled by the law of karma. So if one civilization committed atrocities against another then it's your turn to get destroyed as this is the universe's way of setting things right (karma). This is bad news for the white race/japanese and other groups. According to the Navajo 2012 will not be a good time for the white race in particular.

    It's your choice if you want to believe them or not but I just wanted to make the point that the world as we know it won't end, just the civilization/system we live in. I personally try not to attach myself to his world and try to be as happy as I can and enjoy it while it lasts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daryl Lim
    I'd still do my best to achieve my life goals within 2 years. Be different, if everyone has quit their jobs and start enjoying life, work even harder than normal. Then you'll probably the richest man in the world.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Nostradamus wrote vague poems that were completely open to interpretation. There isn't a single prediction of his that was clearly spelled out ahead of time.

    But, an event happens, people go to Nostradamus' works, then say "Oh, this must be what he meant." That's not the way real predictions should work. They should be clear as a bell.

    Nostradamus did NOT predict the rise of Hitler, the Kennedy assassination, nor men landing on the moon. Now, IF he would have simply said, even once, "man will visit the moon in 20th century" you could maybe give him some credit. But he never said it, and people make the quatrains fit a new event.

    Why people fall for all this Nostradamus hookum has always been beyond me. A very simple and basic perusal of the facts should be enough for anybody to see he never made a "real" prediction.

    That being said, people can believe whatever nonsense they choose to believe, even if it isn't the truth.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    I think people mis-understand the prophecies.
    ....and I think some people can find racist crap in everything they read.
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    • Profile picture of the author opiniones
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      ....and I think some people can find racist crap in everything they read.
      I'm only telling you what they say. It's up to you to believe it or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author phsims
    I thought the end of the world only came round on years ending in 0 or 5? The doomsday nutters all seem to like round number for some reason...
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  • Profile picture of the author Martin2010
    Yeh it's a funny one isn't it but what i would say is that if you don't belive in this sort of thing then check this out: $20 Twenty Dollar Bill Trick - The WTC Twin Towers 9/11 Folding Dollar Trick seeing really is believing.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Martin2010 View Post

      Yeh it's a funny one isn't it but what i would say is that if you don't belive in this sort of thing then check this out: $20 Twenty Dollar Bill Trick - The WTC Twin Towers 9/11 Folding Dollar Trick seeing really is believing.
      I saw that one. It's really eerie.

      Mike - exactly why I mentioned Nostradamus - and the alternative theory that he predicted an event in 2039. I think people just like to make events that go along with special cosmic occurrences. There used to be superstitions accompanying all the alignments, etc. In astrology people are slated as having personality traits that are solely determined by cosmic alignments. The end of a calendar at the time of some cosmic alignments really made for good material - and people are cleaning up on sales of products that revolve around the calendar ending and some alignments.
      I'm wondering if on December 22, 2012 the remaining Mayans will put out a new issue of the grand scale calendar or if they will go back to the 56 year calendar.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        I saw that one. It's really eerie.

        Mike - exactly why I mentioned Nostradamus - and the alternative theory that he predicted an event in 2039. I think people just like to make events that go along with special cosmic occurrences. There used to be superstitions accompanying all the alignments, etc. In astrology people are slated as having personality traits that are solely determined by cosmic alignments. The end of a calendar at the time of some cosmic alignments really made for good material - and people are cleaning up on sales of products that revolve around the calendar ending and some alignments.
        I'm wondering if on December 22, 2012 the remaining Mayans will put out a new issue of the grand scale calendar or if they will go back to the 56 year calendar.
        Good points, Sal.

        Do you happen to know which quatrain mentions 2039? I know he wrotes tons of them, so if you don't know, that's okay. I'm just curious is all.

        While Nostradamus made 0 specific and accurate predictions, he must have been doing something right if we're still talking about him hundreds of years later.

        All the best,
        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          I plan on having the best Christmas ever on December 25, 2012.
          :p
          The world isn't going to end. Fear-mongering has always been a way to control people and most importantly control their spending. I think people should be smart - don't get fooled by those with ulterior motives.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Good points, Sal.
          Do you happen to know which quatrain mentions 2039?
          I know he wrotes tons of them, so if you don't know, that's okay. I'm just curious is all.

          While Nostradamus made 0 specific and accurate predictions, he must have been doing something right if we're still talking about him hundreds of years later.

          All the best,
          Michael
          Haven't a clue, Michael. I've never really studied him - just know a lot of people believe many of his prophecies were fulfilled. I saw that one on a site that was citing a lot of other prophecies that require us to survive 2012 to be able to become truth. Who know's Mike........maybe in a different universe they do. Maybe we're just experiencing splits in the continuum that put our consciousness on another plane. That's what 2012 was supposed to be about, after all. There was no end of the world in any of the Myan literature.

          The calendar was based on a numerical system that required it's length. The previous one was a 56 year calendar, but it wasn't long enough for something about their culture or beliefs so they used some numerical system appropriate to them to make a longer one -- and the one we got was the length that system required. I'm not a mathematician, but one with access to other Myan lit and calendar systems could probably explain it to you.

          Their faith was energy. They lived daily by forecasts of the day's energy on personal levels, spiritual, earth, society etc. There were 5 energies that determined how they lived day to day -- and that's what the math and the calendar does, flows mathematically through energy cycles. There was the idea of universal amplification of energy through time. The end of the calendar is the end of a energy cycle. That's where the idea of end of the world came from. They also believe that you could ascend to levels of frequency that you might not notice as a physical change -- much like quantum physics as pointed to the idea of infinite universes. In Myan thought the earth would do a split much the same - the earth with the frequency as we know it - and one with a higher frequency, high enough to exist on a plane we can't detect, but the same otherwise. Because of the change in material mass, there is a concept that the higher energy planed earth will be of a higher spiritual plane, too -- where people will understand energy and learn to manipulate their existence in the flow.

          When you get that far into a belief system that jibes with quantum physics, the boundaries of what to believe and what to scoff at can become a grey wasteland.

          I suppose that next year or early on in 2012 I will probably see if I can find when the last alignment of earth with the galaxy center happened, and see if there were any events on earth going on that might make someone sit back and say "Holy ****". I might even study Mayan documentation a little bit if I can find solid archaeological translations to see exactly what they say about energy. It's a fascinating culture -- and most disappeared rather abruptly. It would be pretty astounding to have someone dig up an old tablet that predicted that one. If and when I were ever to find out that such documentation existed.........I might think twice about some very intense study into what I could find out about their knowledge of energy.

          But then again -- they probably just got an offer from a fly by alien to take them someplace really kewl and they were excited to accept.

          Truth is stranger than fiction. I never want to say anything is completely without merit anymore. Too much stuff going on that is just totally unbelievable - both good and bad. I'm just enjoying the ride, ya know. LMAO.
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          • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            I suppose that next year or early on in 2012 I will probably see if I can find when the last alignment of earth with the galaxy center happened, and see if there were any events on earth going on that might make someone sit back and say "Holy ****".
            I think I know what you mean, and I seem to remember reading it was about 26,000 years ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Martin2010 View Post

      Yeh it's a funny one isn't it but what i would say is that if you don't belive in this sort of thing then check this out: $20 Twenty Dollar Bill Trick - The WTC Twin Towers 9/11 Folding Dollar Trick seeing really is believing.
      Even more eye-popping than that are the "9/11 Wingdings".

      The first plane to fly into the WTC was QF33 NY.

      Open up Word, and type QF33 NY in capitals;

      Increase the font size to the maximum, and make it bold;

      Then highlight the whole thing;

      Then change the font to Wingdings;

      Pick your jaw up off the floor.
























      Only problem with this is that NONE of the flights on 9/11 were QF33 NY.

      Interesting though, and it shows the amount of imagination the "tinfoil brigade" will go to to "prove" their point.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Q
    Banned
    We're ain't going to die in December 2012! It's only the end of the Mayan Calendar, not the world. It's going to have more Warrior millionaires soon.

    I'm not going to buy a ticket to witness the end of the world.
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    • Profile picture of the author Netcat
      There's a huge number of very expertly done videos on YouTube regarding this discussion. Some say that a planet called Nibiru will pass between the sun and the earth on it's orbit of 3600 years and will cause complete chaos on earth. Apparently Nibiru can already be detected by telescopes and will change the gravity of the earth causing earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, tornadoes etc.

      I don't think it will happen as no-one knows when the end of mankind as we know it will be. The earth will continue to exist, I believe, but we should live our lives as if the world is ending tomorrow, and plan as if it will remain the same forever.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Netcat View Post

        There's a huge number of very expertly done videos on YouTube regarding this discussion. Some say that a planet called Nibiru will pass between the sun and the earth on it's orbit of 3600 years and will cause complete chaos on earth. Apparently Nibiru can already be detected by telescopes and will change the gravity of the earth causing earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, tornadoes etc.

        I don't think it will happen as no-one knows when the end of mankind as we know it will be. The earth will continue to exist, I believe, but we should live our lives as if the world is ending tomorrow, and plan as if it will remain the same forever.

        If it were there - it would already effect our gravity whether we can see it or not. Again - not a mathematician, but I believe with our current knowledge of math and space that scientists would know one way or other without us having to look for clues in ancient scripture. I've never heard a serious scientist talk about planet x or any real mathematical indications that it's there.
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        • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          If it were there - it would already effect our gravity whether we can see it or not. Again - not a mathematician, but I believe with our current knowledge of math and space that scientists would know one way or other without us having to look for clues in ancient scripture. I've never heard a serious scientist talk about planet x or any real mathematical indications that it's there.
          I don't think they would tell us if they did know, it would create wide spread panic if people thought the world was in danger.

          Funny how they built a telescope on Antarctic in recent years though, as that is the supposed path this planet is to take. (90 degrees from our solar systems elliptical plane, coming from below, due to pass between Earth and Jupiter somewhere, I think it was)

          Zacharia Sitchin, a famed pseudo-historian, proposes in his book "The Twelfth Planet" that this has happened in the past and is the reason for the asteroid belt, Earth's peculiar moon (not made up of any material from our solar system, let alone earth as it should be. The moon should be made from the same material in the accretion disk that made Earth) and a variety of other things.

          I have done many years of research into different things that involve the people of Earth being lied to on a mass scale, including a secret space program, moon mining, why and how the moon landing was faked (and I have seen definite proof of this, a video right from the space shuttle during that flight), Darwin's evolutionary theory and a host of other topics.

          I will tell you one thing, there is too much proof out there that we have been lied to in some ways, and these aren't little white lies. Most of the lies are meant to keep us in the dark and under the rule of the rich and elite, who have more power than any president. We actually have some pretty impressive technology being hid from us too, it would mean the collapse of their hold on the economy and our current industries if it were released, meaning no more oil profits and etc, that's why electric cars and a host of other things never made it to mass market. It's been years since they created the first electric car, don't you think they could have perfected it by now if they wanted?

          The problem is they keep us so brainwashed with the media (which they totally control, and if you don't believe it, watch our news and then watch the news from the other side of the world, over time you will see how much they don't tell us and try to hide) and so busy with debt, poverty, useless entertainment and many other things to keep us busy so we don't have time to think about these things, that most people just don't care and don't have the time to do the proper research (most are just ignorant in my opinion, believing whatever is put in front of them and shown on the news). It's all out there, plenty of proof. People need to stop believing everything they see and here and find out for themselves the real truth. I'm not saying I know it all, but I definitely know more than most and when you see the same things coming from different resources that have nothing to do with each other, the bigger picture becomes clearer and clearer over time.
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          • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
            In Myan thought the earth would do a split much the same - the earth with the frequency as we know it - and one with a higher frequency, high enough to exist on a plane we can't detect, but the same otherwise. Because of the change in material mass, there is a concept that the higher energy planed earth will be of a higher spiritual plane, too -- where people will understand energy and learn to manipulate their existence in the flow.
            This is very true and one of the reason I believe strongly in other life out there and possibly on our own planet.

            Our visible light spectrum (things that we can see with our eyes) is a very small portion on the actual plane of existence. below our spectrum is radio waves, microwaves and infrared waves. Above is UV rays, X-rays and gamma rays. The energy waves below our spectrum vibrate at a much lower frequency and the ones above at a MUCH higher frequency, which are the cause of massive radiation and cancer. If there are intellegent beings out there on another plane of existence vibrating at a higher frequency, we wouldn't be able to see them. I believe there is and have seen some pretty convincing stuff that these beings know how to control the frequencies and come into our visible spectrum when they want.

            One of the big theories for 2012 is that some of us (the ones who are ready in an evolutionary point of view) will have the chance to evolve to a higher plane of energy, leaving behind our material physical bodies possibly, but more than likely just able to control our own energies more, which could open the doors for a host of other possibilities for us.
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            • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
              I suppose that next year or early on in 2012 I will probably see if I can find when the last alignment of earth with the galaxy center happened, and see if there were any events on earth going on that might make someone sit back and say "Holy ****".
              I thought about this as well, and one thing that came to mind but I haven't verified yet is...

              What if the past polar shifts or magnetic field reversals were due to the Earths passing through the Galactic plane. It's well known by scientists that the gravity waves sent out from the center of the galaxy are very strong and if the earth is say on top of that plane, then the magnetic field would circulate in one certain direction, but when we pass through that galactic gravity plane, could our magnetic field not reverse due to the change of our position relative to the plane. In other words when we pass through and are now below the gravity plane, it would cause our magnetic field to flip cause the gravity waves are now approaching the Earth from another side.

              Does this make sense?
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              • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                Originally Posted by Apollo77 View Post

                I thought about this as well, and one thing that came to mind but I haven't verified yet is...

                What if the past polar shifts or magnetic field reversals were due to the Earths passing through the Galactic plane. It's well known by scientists that the gravity waves sent out from the center of the galaxy are very strong and if the earth is say on top of that plane, then the magnetic field would circulate in one certain direction, but when we pass through that galactic gravity plane, could our magnetic field not reverse due to the change of our position relative to the plane. In other words when we pass through and are now below the gravity plane, it would cause our magnetic field to flip cause the gravity waves are now approaching the Earth from another side.

                Does this make sense?
                All right ... it seems to me the earth is always aligned with the galactic center. Two points in space are always aligned, aren't they? Doesn't there have to be a third point for the kind of alignment to occur that you and Sal are talking about? What is the third point? What am I missing here?
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    • Profile picture of the author adelainewatson
      Mankind will live forever. 2012 is just a fiction.
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    • Profile picture of the author brenna55
      I don't think so that it will happen. No body can tell that 2012 will be the end of mankind even we don't know what will happen in next moment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    The end of the world has been predicted hundreds of times. So far, every one of them have been wrong. I'm thinking that streak will probably hold true.

    I am going to buy some POINT 2012 BLACK ALE just in case though. I want to be able to go out in the proper style, just in case -- and a case ought to just about do it.


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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    First it was the computers would be cause world wide panic come the millenium, and now 2012, we have to wonder if we have some kind of desire for impending doom
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  • Profile picture of the author ASUService
    I know why the Mayan Calendar stops in Dec. 2010 ....

    After all that writing the folks doing it needed a cold brew. After 3-4 cold brews they looked down at all the work they had done, figured they had things covered for a while and said "Screw It ... I REALLY need a life!"

    ... or maybe the cat dumped their inkpot!

    Seriously tho' ... wait, never mind! Serious and 2012 EOW is a contradiction of terms!
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    I don't believe it myself. Anyone who believes 2012 signifies anything at all because the Ancient Maya said so, is accepting the judgment of people who felt it was necessary to tear tore live beating hearts out of sacrifice victims at the top of pyramids.
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  • Profile picture of the author winfredjames
    I think it wont end....
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  • Profile picture of the author kevin.eleven88
    I really don't believe about 2012 is real. But one thing if we don't protect the earth and the environment i think it will happen sooner or later. The end of the world has been predicted hundreds of times. So far, every one of them have been wrong. I'm thinking that streak will probably hold true.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    This teaching is based on the beliefs of the mayans...who also believed that if they didnt sacrifice a human body daily the sun wouldnt rise...

    Sure I love airy fairy metaphysical teachings... but let that one sink in , and see how much credibility you can actually give their opinion.

    Sure they were right about a few things, but even a blind squirrel gets a nut everynow and then.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      This teaching is based on the beliefs of the mayans...who also believed that if they didnt sacrifice a human body daily the sun wouldnt rise...

      Sure I love airy fairy metaphysical teachings... but let that one sink in , and see how much credibility you can actually give their opinion.

      Sure they were right about a few things, but even a blind squirrel gets a nut everynow and then.
      That's just my objection, John. There wasn't an end of the world in the Mayan teachings, so it doesn't even follow that it was a Mayan myth. It's a 2000's myth. I never even heard of it until after YK2. Did you? On another note -- Most of the Mayan culture disappeared abruptly. Yet I have yet to see any translations of ANY of their recovered literature that predicted that one. If they were able to predict 2012 events - would they not have predicted their own mass disappearances as well?
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Dan - yes, it makes sense. Our magnetic field flips now and again though despite the alignment. We also experience shifts fairly often. We're going through one right now. The Magnetic pole has been headed for Siberia at the rate of about 25 miles a year (which is extremely rapid). At some point the geology shifts to keep the physical pole and magnetic pole close together. Early this year we had masses of quakes - a few extremely large - that were all of 10 and 35 kilometers depth - that was very strong indication that the crust was actually shifting. Matter starts aligning with the magnetic poles and sooner or later centrifugal force catches up with it. Anyhow - the last actual notable magnetic shift was in the mid 1800's and that is before we had methods to track quakes, so while disaster events might have become prolific for awhile, we aren't likely to find that out other than by incidental results cropping up in other research and piecing it all together later on.

    Dennis - I understand the question. Yes - there is always a line from the from the galaxy center to earth - but it doesn't usually extend straight to arms on the other side of the galaxy. Our arm has been dipped below a line that would run the entire width or length of the galaxy. The coming alignment is one in which the arm we are in is floating back up to the the point at which our planet would intersect a line if you drew one from one end of the galaxy to the other that ran through all the arms and the center. The concern is about cosmic wind hitting us more directly as a result.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I agree Sal that they didnt even teach that in the first place...

    Edit: I am more referring the why people would even give them any any credibility at all... Honestly, "WE" are the most evolved humans to ever exist and the knowledge we have is superior to anything in the past, though it has "evolved" from the past.

    You probably know I have been on an intense spiritual Journey for years... Just coming to realize that truth is beyond the labels we call words... God simply IS and we have to connect by faith... not by text.

    In the end... energy is never destroyed and any understandings we need or lack are inevitable for us to meet along the way... we must simply open ourselves up to the omnipotent and "experience" what "is"... by being connected in a way that is not possible to lable. Or rather, become aware of our "connection" that already exists.

    Airy fairy? Maybe. But if we know everything then who needs "faith" right. Im convinced that "faith" IS the truth itself.

    Not acting upon what we understand.... but rather having faith, with or without understanding, in the things we hope for or want...

    Im sure Allen didnt have any evidence around when he started the WF that it could be this huge... but "Blessed is the man who can believe without seeing", or maybe "Blessed is the man who can SEE without physically SEEING.

    Blessed are the Visionaries.

    I gotta go do some work now.

    Much love to All you guys!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Well, like I said, the end has been predicted hundreds of times and every one of them were wrong. You gotta love the marketing angle from Point Brewery with their POINT 2012 BLACK ALE though. I'm buying some just to reward their marketing ingenuity.
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    • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
      All right ... it seems to me the earth is always aligned with the galactic center. Two points in space are always aligned, aren't they? Doesn't there have to be a third point for the kind of alignment to occur that you and Sal are talking about? What is the third point? What am I missing here?
      I was actually referring to the fact that our solar system not only travels around the galactic center with the motion of the spiral arm that we are in, but also travels up and down in a wave like motion, rising above the galactic plane and dipping down below. I think that these rises and dips takes about 36,000 years to complete and return to original starting place if I remember.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      Well, like I said, the end has been predicted hundreds of times and every one of them were wrong. You gotta love the marketing angle from Point Brewery with their POINT 2012 BLACK ALE though. I'm buying some just to reward their marketing ingenuity.
      My Grandpa said Jesus was gonna come on dec 23 1979 at 12 midnite... I went to church with him that night, I was maybe 9 or 10... the whole place was freaking out... you never saw such a thing.

      Imagine the disapointment.... then the argument came "well it isnt midnite yet in some places..." Yeah , thats it, maybe Jesus is in a different time zone...:rolleyes:

      People predict the end of the world every 5 minutes.
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  • Profile picture of the author diggo
    I'm curious to know what happened last time the Mayan calendar ended? Isn't this the easiest way to predict what will happen in 2012?
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    • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
      Originally Posted by diggo View Post

      I'm curious to know what happened last time the Mayan calendar ended? Isn't this the easiest way to predict what will happen in 2012?
      There is only 1 Mayan calender in existence and it has never come to an end until now (2012), so we can't tell what will happen.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Apollo77 View Post

        There is only 1 Mayan calender in existence and it has never come to an end until now (2012), so we can't tell what will happen.
        Yes, we can tell what will happen.

        Nothing.

        Period.

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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Yes, we can tell what will happen.

          Nothing.

          Period.

          ~Michael
          In light of all the different predictions (apocalypse, age of enlightenment, entering into a higher vibration, comet strikes earth, Planet Nibiru causes gravitational shifts, pole shift, alien invasion, we enter a new dimension, etc.), in light of all those things and more ... don't you think nothing is something?
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  • Profile picture of the author gsmith88
    Nobody knows when the world will end...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    All that nothingness must surely mean something... doesnt nothing eventually build up at least some kind of vibrational density if your compress enough of it together...?

    Wife (Quantum Physics Major) is looking at me thinking "You're a dumbass..." and verbally using the word labels "Are you kidding me"? To mask the true meaning. LOL.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustinDupre
    Great discussion.. totally make me think of how i sometimes take things for granted and how I should start living today and enjoy my life a little more. I don't think anything will happen though I'd take any bet on this one! lol
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    All that nothingness must surely mean something... doesnt nothing eventually build up at least some kind of vibrational density if your compress enough of it together...?
    Nah John - nothing is the absence of something, not another form of something. You can get the negative opposite of a positive something - but nothing is not the opposite of something. It is, rather, the negation. The idea of nothing being the opposite of something arises from an unfortunate juxtaposition of prefixing morphemes.

    "Knowing" is also juxtaposed, as you have found to be true in your spiritual search. "Knowing" is actually a reference to the ability to communicate an idea to others via our physical communication system (words). It is said that you can't know something which you can not explain. LOL. Whoever thought up that delectable little quote didn't get off the sidewalk much.

    Human communication systems are innate because on this planet we need to communicate to other people and animals to survive with them. We do not have to communicate on this level to communicate with the energy of existence. It is a process, not a "state of". You are either aware of your position within the process, the flow, or you aren't. Period. The first hint that someone is not in tune with the process is their insistence on attempting to describe it in words to another person. The process is not social or material - individual emersion exists outside of communication.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Nah John - nothing is the absence of something, not another form of something. You can get the negative opposite of a positive something - but nothing is not the opposite of something. It is, rather, the negation. The idea of nothing being the opposite of something arises from an unfortunate juxtaposition of prefixing morphemes.

      "Knowing" is also juxtaposed, as you have found to be true in your spiritual search. "Knowing" is actually a reference to the ability to communicate an idea to others via our physical communication system (words). It is said that you can't know something which you can not explain. LOL. Whoever thought up that delectable little quote didn't get off the sidewalk much.

      Human communication systems are innate because on this planet we need to communicate to other people and animals to survive with them. We do not have to communicate on this level to communicate with the energy of existence. It is a process, not a "state of". You are either aware of your position within the process, the flow, or you aren't. Period. The first hint that someone is not in tune with the process is their insistence on attempting to describe it in words to another person. The process is not social or material - individual emersion exists outside of communication.
      Damn. The Physical Aparatus Limitation Issue Again... Complete with the verbal communication only mindset... can somebody get me an upgrade..? Oh well, At Least its good for some things!
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Damn. The Physical Aparatus Limitation Issue Again... Complete with the verbal communication only mindset... can somebody get me an upgrade..? Oh well, At Least its good for some things!
        Well yah! When in Rome.............

        but from what I see here, if lots of Internet sites are right.......come Dec, 2012, we'll only be using that limited PA to say things like "I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, Toto." before we leave it behind for good.
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      • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
        I think a lot of people secretly WANT the world to end. They're unhappy and don't like their lives, and they take any bad news as more evidence that the world is going to hell in a handbasket (despite the fact that even with all the economic problems and conflicts today, we live in a safer, more prosperous and more oppotunity-filled world than any generation of humans in history).

        Humanity has gone through the Black Death, The 1918 Spanish Flu, two incredibly destructive world wars, periodic mass famines, economic disruptions and numerous other catastrophes and here we still are. I think we'll be around for awhile.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      All that nothingness must surely mean something... doesnt nothing eventually build up at least some kind of vibrational density if your compress enough of it together...?

      Wife (Quantum Physics Major) is looking at me thinking "You're a dumbass..." and verbally using the word labels "Are you kidding me"? To mask the true meaning. LOL.
      Had to thank you for giving me a good laugh. The more you post, the more I like you, John. Nice to see what you look like now, too, with the more recent pic in your avatar -- assuming that's you, of course.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Nah John - nothing is the absence of something, not another form of something. You can get the negative opposite of a positive something - but nothing is not the opposite of something.
      Sal, you continue to amaze me with your breadth of knowledge, but is there really nothing? Or are we just incapable of measuring whatever it is that seems like nothing? I recently finished reading The Holographic Universe. It delves into quantum physics quite a bit. According to the author, some scientists believe there is no such thing as empty space. In fact, some believe the material world is a projected hologram from a universal intelligence. If that were true, even the emptiness of space would be a projection. Thus, if it is a projection, it is a something after all.

      Are we having fun yet?
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

        but is there really nothing? Or are we just incapable of measuring whatever it is that seems like nothing? I recently finished reading The Holographic Universe. It delves into quantum physics quite a bit. According to the author, some scientists believe there is no such thing as empty space. In fact, some believe the material world is a projected hologram from a universal intelligence. If that were true, even the emptiness space would be a projection. This, if it is a projection, it is a something after all.

        Are we having fun yet?
        LOL - we're gonna real quick here if we weren't before.

        No - there is not nothing. As soon as nothing becomes an IS nothing, it takes on existence and negates the state of being nothing...i.e. non-extant. A void in space is still an IS - and it is extant within the realm of this universe, and therefore becomes an IS. Nothing is nonextant anywhere. It doesn't exist even as a concept. Once something exists, even as just a concept it is no longer nothing, it has become an entity in existence.

        They are, btw, almost at the stage that they can prove the holographic theory. I have to go look it up again and see what the advancements have done to it. When I read it, it was mostly pointing to the fact that matter and mass are only illusions. Anything we perceive to be material is just a particular condensation of energy. The quirk that might have thrown projection into that is the discovery of particles that only exist when you are looking at them. Very deep ramifications to this theory. You manifest the car you want by visualizing it -- it only really exists as a material object when you are seeing it or thinking about it. Your room exists recognizably when you open the door from one time you are there to the next only because you have built a belief system that it is so. Of course, once someone thinks of something that was not existent before, it will be forever something after that. You can't turn something back into nothing once it's been manifested. LMAO. Holy cow.

        Well, gotta run. I have to go think up a big bag of cash and a guy who looks like Tarzan with the brain of S. Hawkings.

        Give me a fattie and point me to the cinder block.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          LOL - we're gonna real quick here if we weren't before.

          No - there is not nothing. As soon as nothing becomes an IS nothing, it takes on existence and negates the state of being nothing...i.e. non-extant. A void in space is still an IS - and it is extant within the realm of this universe, and therefore becomes an IS. Nothing is nonextant anywhere. It doesn't exist even as a concept. Once something exists, even as just a concept it is no longer nothing, it has become an entity in existence.

          They are, btw, almost at the stage that they can prove the holographic theory. I have to go look it up again and see what the advancements have done to it. When I read it, it was mostly pointing to the fact that matter and mass are only illusions. Anything we perceive to be material is just a particular condensation of energy. The quirk that might have thrown projection into that is the discovery of particles that only exist when you are looking at them. Very deep ramifications to this theory. You manifest the car you want by visualizing it -- it only really exists as a material object when you are seeing it or thinking about it. Your room exists recognizably when you open the door from one time you are there to the next only because you have built a belief system that it is so. Of course, once someone thinks of something that was not existent before, it will be forever something after that. You can't turn something back into nothing once it's been manifested. LMAO. Holy cow.

          Well, gotta run. I have to go think up a big bag of cash and a guy who looks like Tarzan with the brain of S. Hawkings.

          Give me a fattie and point me to the cinder block.
          Ah, yes...read shrodingers cat... could barely read it actually...wasnt very readable for a common person...and dont know how much I actually retained, but I picked up that certain things change just by our perception of them alone, at least in theory.

          On another note.

          Actually I asked the wife last night ...who knows more about this kind of thing than I do, and much to my surprise she answered that "Energy cannot be destroyed, but evidence does suggest that eventually it does sometimes die on its own, and turn into radiation, and eventually even the radiation dissipates as well, and the energy is reduced to particles that are too small to even measure with our most sophisticated tools, and so we have no proof that it even exists anymore...

          I still don't buy it. I still say its only transitioning to another form... but science these days would argue that eventually it actually does die and turn into nothingness according to her professor.

          Ps. dont bogue the fatty.
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        • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          ...Anything we perceive to be material is just a particular condensation of energy. The quirk that might have thrown projection into that is the discovery of particles that only exist when you are looking at them. Very deep ramifications to this theory. You manifest the car you want by visualizing it -- it only really exists as a material object when you are seeing it or thinking about it. Your room exists recognizably when you open the door from one time you are there to the next only because you have built a belief system that it is so.
          ...which begs the question, if the material world is only a projection from our minds, why is it my wife and I can walk into a room we've neither one been in before, and see fundamentally the same thing? One would think she'd see one thing and I another, but if we talk about it we invariably have the same visual perception of any objects in the room or of the room itself.

          That would indicate we either created the room and contents via a shared consciousness, or our findings are the projections of another consciousness. If the later were the case, if you took it back far enough would that not point to one original consciousness? If THAT were the case, then are we real? Or are we a projection?

          Good luck with that Tarzan thing.
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          • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
            some scientists believe there is no such thing as empty space. In fact, some believe the material world is a projected hologram from a universal intelligence.
            I read a theory like this too, about intelligent beings from a higher dimension/frequency that actually created the 3 dimensional material universe as an experiment of sorts.

            ...which begs the question, if the material world is only a projection from our minds, why is it my wife and I can walk into a room we've neither one been in before, and see fundamentally the same thing? One would think she'd see one thing and I another, but if we talk about it we invariably have the same visual perception of any objects in the room or of the room itself.

            That would indicate we either created the room and contents via a shared consciousness, or our findings are the projections of another consciousness. If the later were the case,
            Ahhh, the power of thought, under estimated by everyone. It is said that if everyone in the world concentrated on the same thing, then that thing would become reality. Collective consciousness is very powerful and the powers that be know this. That is why they have separated us by race, religion, social stature (poor and rich). If we weren't all caught up in our own problems or single mindedness we could change our destiny in ways people never thought of.

            We are all one, created from the same star dust and particles that first came into being way back at the big bang, which by the way is totally false. The standard model of cosmology had it wrong from the beginning as some scientists are now realizing. Recent findings about the red shift factor have proven the theories are incorrect as well as the "ghost particle" which threw a lot of current theories right out the window. I watched a video about "the electric universe" theory which is able to account for and explain all the things the standard model couldn't, like red shift, why sunspots are black, dark matter, dark energy and many other things.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

            ...which begs the question, if the material world is only a projection from our minds, why is it my wife and I can walk into a room we've neither one been in before, and see fundamentally the same thing?
            1. If our physical appearance is all due to a bunching of the same energy flows, then it means that information can flow with the energy and, at some levels, be available to any energy within the continuum.

            2. We may all be able to agree that we see something - but how can we ever really know that what one person sees is the same as our perception of that thing? We all think that grass is green, for instance - but can we be sure what another person sees as "green" is the same thing we see? Can we even know for a fact that the other person even exists outside of our perception of them? If, in fact, the holographic theory is correct - it's not just tables and carpets that are created by our own minds - but everything we perceive as well. What if "we" are, in fact, only one?

            Idealism vs. Materialism is an old philosophical conundrum.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              We may all be able to agree that we see something - but how can we ever really know that what one person sees is the same as our perception of that thing? We all think that grass is green, for instance - but can we be sure what another person sees as "green" is the same thing we see?
              I did say we fundamentally see the same thing. I may see green as red while she sees green as blue, but we agree we see green. I might see damage to a wall. My wife see the damage too. We both agree it's about as big as baseball. Maybe she sees a baseball as big as a basketball while I see it as the size of a marble, but we both agree it's baseball sized. It's still a shared and agreed upon reality. Which leads back my original questions ... Did we create that shared reality through a shared consciousness, or are our findings are the projections of another consciousness? If the later were the case, if you took it back far enough in time would that not point to one original consciousness? And if THAT were the case, are we real? Or a projection?

              Can we even know for a fact that the other person even exists outside of our perception of them? If, in fact, the holographic theory is correct - it's not just tables and carpets that are created by our own minds - but everything we perceive as well. What if "we" are, in fact, only one?
              Indeed ... what if "we" are, in fact, only one? It seems that would make us God, or a part of God.

              What if there is no "we" at all?
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              1. If our physical appearance is all due to a bunching of the same energy flows, then it means that information can flow with the energy and, at some levels, be available to any energy within the continuum.

              2. We may all be able to agree that we see something - but how can we ever really know that what one person sees is the same as our perception of that thing? We all think that grass is green, for instance - but can we be sure what another person sees as "green" is the same thing we see? Can we even know for a fact that the other person even exists outside of our perception of them? If, in fact, the holographic theory is correct - it's not just tables and carpets that are created by our own minds - but everything we perceive as well. What if "we" are, in fact, only one?

              Idealism vs. Materialism is an old philosophical conundrum.
              I would like to PM you a book if you have time to read some things Sal. Damn, you are getting me all fired up. My personal belief is that we are all projections of Gods Consciousness. "Images" projected from the Mind of the "all that Is" ... I often wonder if the images we project in our own have life... there are so many teachings that would allude to that. No doubt the images in our mind play in our sleep and seem to have their own world or life... even their own thinking...acting out things without our conscious involvement.

              Its almost as if we take in images in the day...and they play on their own at night.

              Interesting stuff here. I keep wanting to come back... Perhaps because Dennis sent me life energy with his compliment and we are all drawn to that.

              Thanks Dennis. BTW Yeah Thats me. When I get tired of looking at my own mug I will prob switch it back to the grandson...I like looking at him better... very life giving for me.

              Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

              I did say we fundamentally see the same thing. I may see green as red while she sees green as blue, but we agree we see green. I might see damage to a wall. My wife see the damage too. We both agree it's about as big as baseball. Maybe she sees a baseball as big as a basketball while I see it as the size of a marble, but we both agree it's baseball sized. It's still a shared and agreed upon reality. Which leads back my original questions ... Did we create that shared reality through a shared consciousness, or are our findings are the projections of another consciousness? If the later were the case, if you took it back far enough in time would that not point to one original consciousness? And if THAT were the case, are we real? Or a projection?



              Indeed ... what if "we" are, in fact, only one? It seems that would make us God, or a part of God.

              What if there is no "we" at all?
              Strangely, my wife and I have shared the same dreams on a couple of occasions, and woke up talking to each...still playing it out. Freaked out like...How did you know, and describing the same scenery from different angles...

              Who knows... so much less confusing to focus on making money than the things that truly fascinate us... I guess the goal is that when you get so much, you dont have to do anything but focus on the things that fascinate you...NOW, I have tried that one without the money before, just in case someone pops up and says "you dont need it"... well, that way didnt work out to well.... lol
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              • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                Who knows... so much less confusing to focus on making money than the things that truly fascinate us... I guess the goal is that when you get so much, you dont have to do anything but focus on the things that fascinate you...NOW, I have tried that one without the money before, just in case someone pops up and says "you dont need it"... well, that way didnt work out to well.... lol
                Oh, I love this kind of reading. I've always got a couple books about "life" stuff on my bed stand. Been reading this kind of stuff for decades. Just finished The Holographic Universe, and just started Consciousness Beyond Life: The Science of the Near-Death Experience.

                Out of curiosity, if you don't mind saying, what is the book you wanted Sal to read?
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                • Profile picture of the author Kenster
                  Originally Posted by Andie View Post

                  Kenster,

                  The end of mankind does not concern me too much.
                  If they begin to proclaim the end of womankind - then the world will be in trubble!!:p


                  Andie

                  End of womankind = not good
                  End of Mankind = not good (that would include me)
                  End of mankind EXCEPT for me = really good...pretty much heaven
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  • Profile picture of the author derrickzv
    If I may....

    "Today...live for the moment, in the moment, with all your heart"

    Matthew 24
    "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

    Jesus tells his disciples that certain events will herald the end of the world:

    Wars and rumors of war
    Famine
    Earthquakes
    Persecution
    False prophets
    Lawlessness
    A hardening of hearts

    And so it is....
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  • Profile picture of the author MrBusiness
    The most unrealistic myth in the history of myths.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Pm me your email addy and I will send to you too... has to do with the links between quantum physics and the law of attraction...

    Ps. Please dont group me in with a "secret" junkie... I have been studying this stuff for 8 years before the secret was ever dreamed up. People who only know the "secrets" version of the law of attraction to me are like people who only know the "Bohemian Rhapsody" from waynes world!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Pm me your email addy and I will send to you too... has to do with the links between quantum physics and the law of attraction...

      Ps. Please dont group me in with a "secret" junkie... I have been studying this stuff for 8 years before the secret was ever dreamed up. People who only know the "secrets" version of the law of attraction to me are like people who only know the "Bohemian Rhapsody" from waynes world!
      Will do. Don't worry, you're not grouped. The Law of Attraction goes back at least 100 years, and the Secret was a very shallow treatise of it, at best. You'd probably like an article I wrote a while back about how the pop culture take on it is all wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I probably would Like that! Wait, cut the "probably" . I would Love that! Book Sent BTW!

    Yeah There is much more to it... you dont get what you want or even what you ask for.... you get what you are in vibrational harmony with! That doesnt mean "parallel to", it means what you are a vibrational match with.

    For instance a plug and an outlet are not alike... they are harmonic to each other though. Harmony, as you know being a music guy, is not two strings making a single note, it is two strings making different notes simultaneously that "harmonize" otherwise it wouldnt be harmony , it would be UNISON.... anyway. I could go crazy with this stuff... Hope you enjoy!
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      I probably would Like that! Wait, cut the "probably" . I would Love that!
      John, I just emailed it to you as a PDF attachment.

      Hope you do enjoy it.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    John - I will pm you my email. I would love to read your take on it. I've studied this stuff for one hell of a long time. The "Secret" makes me sick to my stomach other than seeing it as a brilliant piece of marketing.

    Actually - LOA has been studied for thousands of years. Whad'ya think the Monks are thinking about on top of those mountains? And that's why the Mayan philosophies are so daunting and profound. They understood that there are energies at work and that it is (or should be) our goal to be able to meld with them to obtain amplification.

    One thing I have always hated about the online version of this stuff is the idea of gratitude and giving. Drives me freaking nuts. Gratitude is an unfortunate translation. Gratitude is an obsequious emotion. You can't feel equality or natural ownership if you are busy being obsequious. You can be fully aware that you are perfectly deserving and be appreciative, however. Giving and receiving are equally important. The act of giving does not need to be a matter or love or care. The activity of giving itself releases a force. When the receiver is appreciative and happy or excited about receiving, they, in effect amplify that energy. It is this amplification that is the important point. It is empowering. If you are grateful for the gift you have no sense of naturally deserving and that puts your energy in a lower state to start with - the gift achieves less amplification because the energy of the receiver still reverts back to that of subordinate strength.

    LOL -- Here's one of my rules of life. Never sleep where your dog won't. We live in a grid of subtle earth energies and some of those energies are good for us - some aren't. A dog will not lay down on a zone or line of unhealthy or polluted energy and they are sensitive enough to detect it and avoid wallowing in it. Needless to say - if my dog won't lay down there, don't expect me to park myself there either.

    Crap, I could talk about this stuff endlessly.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Watch out Sal. You are God Speaking to me right now. Wow. What a virtual ONSLAUGHT of channeling the very wisdom I have been asking for! You are being a vessel of God right now...or the universe... as one of my favorite teachers defines really well (Randy Gage) "we are not talking about religion,or even beliefs... we are talking about the natural, and spiritual laws that transcend all beliefs... whether you Call it God or the Universe... whatever you believe that put these laws in place, they "Are"...."I AM"...simple and yet as complicated as that.

    Note to Me: "Dont get me started".

    Loved It Dennis. Awesome.

    So, so true. I have always noted that we "can" do anything... but what "will" we do is whats important...so The quest for me has been , what "will" you do... and I find what you truly will to do, not out of obligation but because it is your "will"... are the things you are most passionate about.

    So, I spent the first part of my life playing music... and the second teaching young men and women to telemarket and learn a skill that could empower their life.

    Thats what I "will" do... I "could" be a land developer or an attorney, or a rich oil millionaire if I "would"...but its pointless to think about those things because I "wont" and Im old enough to know it...

    Action... its alot easier when moved by passion.

    I loved your report. Thank you so much!

    Ps. Learned a little something about report writing too.

    Believe it or not I get my best business epiphany's in the Mind warrior section or OT.
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    • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
      if my dog won't lay down there, don't expect me to park myself there either.
      On more than one occasion my dog has growled at something that wasn't there or growled at the window (I live on the fifth floor, so there is no way anyone could have been peeping), at least from my point of view there wasn't anything there anyway, no birds, no trees or weird shadows.

      She is also a very social dog and loves everyone, but two different times, with 2 different people, she has growled at them and took a wide path to avoid them, and that was my first thought was bad energy. She also refuses to go into the basement at my mother's house for some reason. Maybe something bad happened there once, but whatever it is, that is the only place she will not follow me into.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Apollo77 View Post

        On more than one occasion my dog has growled at something that wasn't there or growled at the window (I live on the fifth floor, so there is no way anyone could have been peeping), at least from my point of view there wasn't anything there anyway, no birds, no trees or weird shadows.

        She is also a very social dog and loves everyone, but two different times, with 2 different people, she has growled at them and took a wide path to avoid them, and that was my first thought was bad energy. She also refuses to go into the basement at my mother's house for some reason. Maybe something bad happened there once, but whatever it is, that is the only place she will not follow me into.
        Listen to your dog - she knows what she's talking about. That is one reason that dogs make good friends. Their senses are highly developed and we sometimes need them to tell us what is going on when we can't see or sense it. People often think their dog is showing ESP when they are just merely smelling or hearing something that we can't. Not saying they can't use their sixth senses - it's just they don't need to for a lot of things they tell us. A dog can smell a drop of urine in a gallon of water. Imagine how much they learn when they actually stop and sniff at one spot for a few minutes.

        I never question my dog. It would be stupidly egotistical to do so.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Energy immersion, John. Funny perception label - onslaught - my name means to charge or attack. If I say something that you wanted to hear - that's not so big a deal. It just means you understand how to access the flow enough to know where to be to receive what you wanted to hear. Everything happens for a reason - if you let yourself be aware of the signals, you will always end up at the right place to get what you are looking for so you can continue.

    Comment - harmonize..........is what we do with energies which seem to have their own volition or direction. When manifesting or becoming........you want synergy.
    If you want to become - harmonizing will put you in position in the flow of what you want to be, but you have to synergize to actually become.

    OT - yes, now you know why I live in the OT. I have fun here - but I've also met the best minds here, the most intelligent and the most creative. I've met my partners here, and they are good partners. I've met the people who have actually taught me anything and everything I know about cyberspace here. And always - no matter what you decide to write, there are others who will understand which wall the ball is bouncing off of and they will hit it back to you. Doesn't get any better than that. Anywhere.
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  • 2012 is a very very special year.
    I hope it has something very special in it.
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    • I discovered some extremely worthwhile flatulence cure information to show.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Me too Dennis, I have lived on a steady diet of "life" type literature for twenty years now.... not sure I know anything more than I did when I started but Im at least aware of about a gazzilion more possibilities. I sent sal the same ones I sent you. Hope you both enjoy. Glad you are feeling better my songwriting friend!
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Me too Dennis, I have lived on a steady diet of "life" type literature for twenty years now.... not sure I know anything more than I did when I started but Im at least aware of about a gazzilion more possibilities. I sent sal the same ones I sent you. Hope you both enjoy. Glad you are feeling better my songwriting friend!
      And a LOT of reading it is! I've read the Master Key already, so that one is out of the way. I appreciate the new library. It's getting cold and I'll have a lot more time to read - as you know, during the summer when I can gem hunt, I get all my life by going out and living it. Winter is for more ideas, cocoa, and the cinder blocks at the fireside.
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      • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
        If you are grateful for the gift you have no sense of naturally deserving and that puts your energy in a lower state to start with - the gift achieves less amplification because the energy of the receiver still reverts back to that of subordinate strength.
        WOW, this made me think a bit. I know quite a bit about physics and the universe and energy vs mass and how it is connected, and how important energy is, especially positive, collectively focused energy. But this is different.

        How many people actually think they are deserving of a certain gift they get, to me that kind of implies arrogance, no? I rarely think to myself this is something I deserve or finally someone has given me what I deserve. I am always extremely grateful to a person for just being caring enough and "it's the thought that counts" sort of thing. Although, I think I am missing the main point here somewhere, I doubt that's what you mean.

        Obviously you have done more research and reading into this particular subject. From what I have read so far, you seem very spiritual and knowledgeable about this stuff and I think I could have learned a lot from you if given the time. I am very interested, please help me understand a bit.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Apollo77 View Post

          WOW, this made me think a bit. I know quite a bit about physics and the universe and energy vs mass and how it is connected, and how important energy is, especially positive, collectively focused energy. But this is different.

          How many people actually think they are deserving of a certain gift they get, to me that kind of implies arrogance, no? I rarely think to myself this is something I deserve or finally someone has given me what I deserve. I am always extremely grateful to a person for just being caring enough and "it's the thought that counts" sort of thing. Although, I think I am missing the main point here somewhere, I doubt that's what you mean.

          Obviously you have done more research and reading into this particular subject. From what I have read so far, you seem very spiritual and knowledgeable about this stuff and I think I could have learned a lot from you if given the time. I am very interested, please help me understand a bit.

          I think you misunderstand what I meant. I don't mean arrogance in any way. No particular person is indebted to you to gift you anything - but you are deserving of good things. When a person gives you something they are the vehicle through which the universe is sending you things you deserve. Apperciate that person and what they have given you - they are message from the universe. Be excited about what you receive and appreciate the person who gave it to you and what was given.

          Grateful sends undertones of someone handing you something that would not have otherwise been something that the universe would see you in ownership of. It gives them power over your energy and creates a subordinate mind set. Some people are "grateful" for food. I expect to be fed if I'm put into a form of being that requires food. I am not "grateful" for it. I am appreciative of it, though.

          When things that I desire or need do not come to me, I wonder how I've become out of touch. Almost a billion people are starving now. We can be controllers and continue to feed them - and they will continue to be grateful - and as long as they are grateful they will continue to build a dependence. If, on the other hand, they realize that they need to be part of the energies, they will stop over-taxing the land and learn to grow food or how to raise animals. They will stop having scores of starving children who are taught to be grateful for handouts instead of shown how to survive.
          If we gift the way the universe intended we may feed a country's people while teaching them that they cannot breed beyond that land's capacity to hold them or they will always be hungry and someone else will always be in control of their existence. If we teach them to grow food and educate them, we are gifting as gifting was intended - to elevate the energy, to allow them to enter the flow of the universe and appreciate what they have rather than to be powerless and grateful for scraps.

          It is governments, corporations, and institutions that have led us to perverse forms of gifting. People give because they feel it is their duty, or to make themselves free from guilt, or even because they feel sorry for others. We should be giving just because the idea hits us to give something - because that is where the universe is pointing us to expend our energy. I would never give money to an organization to feed people for generations - but I would give tools and seeds or bamboo plants they could grow and eat immediately and continue to eat from while learning to sustain themselves.

          A gift that attains indebtedness at any level is not a gift. The call for being grateful is a call for indebtedness. A gift that achieves appreciation is one that continues a healthy and amplified energy flow.

          We are not meant to be controlled by the universe - we are meant to be a part of it. We should appreciate when we receive as it is fulfillment. We also need to understand that there is action required on our part to keep this flow coming to us and going from us. We also need to understand that we should refuse any gift that is given with obligations built on our part to receive it. Understand the welfare conundrum? Keep them needing, keep giving - keep control.

          A true gift is something that will bring us pleasure or help us continue our ability to create a two way flow of energy.
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          • Profile picture of the author Apollo77
            Thank you, very good analogies that made this easy to understand.

            I guess I should be more careful of the words I choose, cause when you explained how being grateful is different from being appreciative, I totally get that. So I would like to change my previous statement from being grateful, to being appreciative.

            I try to never take gifts from people that I know expect something in return or to whom I feel indebted

            When I give, I give because I felt like it or because the person deserves it, I don't believe in getting a pat on the back for doing something or giving something to others. So your explanation makes a lot of sense from my point of view.

            If we teach them to grow food and educate them, we are gifting as gifting was intended - to elevate the energy, to allow them to enter the flow of the universe and appreciate what they have rather than to be powerless and grateful for scraps.
            Sounds exactly right. "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he eats everyday"

            Thank you for taking the time to explain, I "APPRECIATE" it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Me too Dennis, I have lived on a steady diet of "life" type literature for twenty years now.... not sure I know anything more than I did when I started but Im at least aware of about a gazzilion more possibilities. I sent sal the same ones I sent you. Hope you both enjoy. Glad you are feeling better my songwriting friend!
      Oh, I'm sure you know much more than when you started ... if nothing else, you know which books you liked. Seriously though, just knowing more possibilities can be mind expanding.

      Yep, feeling much better now, thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    You know how people say why do I have to take Algebra? I'm never going to use it. Now I know why they made me take Physics and Astronomy. Just wish I had paid more attention rather than just trying to pass. You people are making my head spin.

    What a neat thread.

    I don't know about 2012 but something is definitely brewing. Think of recent history. Armchair quarterbacking WW2 all makes sense now. It is a lot harder when the events are unfolding before your eyes in real time.
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  • Profile picture of the author JAIDEEP2959
    Why to worry about something which is not going to happen.

    I have seen 2012 movie and it wasn't that scary.

    I think we should focus on making money and having good time with family members, other relatives and friends.
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  • Profile picture of the author sfossy
    I also don't believe this, the world will not surely going to end in 2012
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