Good writer , great writing ? How say You ?

13 years ago

Well, this post is different than alot of posts I am accustomed to reading here.

With regards to internet marketing, "good writing" is essentially writing that sells, IMHO. It depends on what your goals are with your writing. You will want to provide enough information that causes a reader to salivate, while leaving just enough questions for them to "click" through and purchase something (or just click an advert itself, dependent on the model).

It doesn't hurt that writing be grammatically correct, with few spelling errors, as well. Writing should trigger emotion, to some degree, in an ethical manner.

"Your whole family will be brutally massacred IF you don't buy this product..." = that takes it a bit to the extreme, and has a little too much liberty with people's emotions...

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Fun to Write

13 years ago

In my opinion, good writing happens when the words make an emotional connection with the reader. I'm not talking about sappy writing, either.

It's giving a person some information that they can really relate to in a personal way. I call this "benefit oriented" writing. You know, when someone visits a website, they arrive there for a reason.

Is it to be bored to death by great prose?

No.

Is it to be wowed by the writer's excellent grammar?

Nope.

Is it to be informed about a subject they're interested in?

Yep.

Is it to find a solution to a problem or something they really want?

Uh huh.

How well you do that in your writing style will determine how good of an online writer you are. In other words, having a college degree in English, doesn't automatically make you a good writer for this medium.

It's how well your words relate to people's needs, wants and desires.

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TelZilla

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill e

Just arrived , eyes not fully open , far from being ''weaned off '' , I stagger new 'twixt dangling threads.

Wow.

Does technically correct count more than , original , fresh , out of the box jotted convincing words ?
Formulaic holds the key ?
I read many here as literate beings , phonetically correct , spelling in check ,intelligent yet say they are not good writers .

What literate' magical make-up makes the Good Writer inherently convincing ?

There is no magic.

There is no formulaic key.

Technically correct writing means little unless you are writing to the technically oriented.

Convincing, persuasive writing can certainly be helpful when you are selling something or trying to argue a specific point.

My personal belief:

Anyone can write.

Anyone can write well.

The thing is, most people believe they can't write. Why? Perhaps it's a lack of self confidence in their own abilities.

It's all a matter of practice. It's a learned skill, much like any other. Sure, there are some who have an inborn natural ability, but anyone can master it if they are willing to take the time to do so.

Fear not, forasmuch as thou art yet but a lowly apprentice, thy path before thee is golden, if thou art but willing to once again take up thy sword and shield, though weary you may be, raise thy banner high, and fight your way to glory beside thy fellow warriors.

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JohnMcCabe 13 years ago

I have a very simple definition for 'good writing'...

Good writing accomplishes what the writer set out to accomplish. That may be garnering a click, making a sale, making the reader think, or something else entirely.

Spelling is important. More so in documents where the writer has the opportunity to make corrections before making the piece available. Typos in casual pieces like forum posts are allowable.

Grammar is important, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the prime objective. Given the choice of accomplishing my task or pleasing Mrs. Wombat, I'll choose accomplishing my task every time.
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- Bill Eliott 13 years ago
  
  Are we on ? 1.2.3., test .test ... . Okay ! My Dial-Down hook-up has been 'flicky tonite . Yep, still suckin' up 20 sumpthin' k'p'things with a tight cranky cyber straw .
  
  Impressed ,squared ! I am .
  Did you just see what transpired here ? Word mammals congregated ! Thousands miles separate . Brought together by a common love . WORDS.
  
  True humbled appreciation .
  
  Learning the ropes with regards to how to press buttons and all .
  Found the ''thank'' click , I'LL use it generously here .
  
  To xx Massive Soldier xx.
  
  Do it 'til it sells , selling , sell'em .
  Wonder what the very first upright mammal 'sell' was ?
  
  Bill e
  
  Thanks
  
  1 reply
  
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  Bill Eliott 13 years ago
  
  ''''Emotion'' . Big word . You and the Very Large Soldier mentioned very same.
  
  Hallmark lives by it .
  
  Fun to Write . Your full response simply ; ... stellar .
  
  ''How well you do that in your writing style will determine how good of an online writer you are. ''
  
  hmmm. Doing some munching on that.
  
  Real Nice .
  
  Thanks
  
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- Bill Eliott 13 years ago
  
  Thank you Happy Hooker ! Good one .
  
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  x3xsolxdierx3x 13 years ago
  
  Good writing? = Not this
  
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

John,

Grammar is important, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the prime objective.

Indeed. For example, the OP's use of spaces before commas. Pointless and distracting. When you see those two things together, in an act that requires conscious decision, you can be pretty sure the person is looking for attention. Sort of like folks who type in all lower case, or regularly change the font on their posts.

They get attention, yes. But only in the way that people who talk too loudly or make inappropriate jokes in public do. And only for a short while, until people realize they're annoying enough to warrant ignoring.

Paul

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donhx

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

John,Indeed. For example, the OP's use of spaces before commas. Pointless and distracting. When you see those two things together, in an act that requires conscious decision, you can be pretty sure the person is looking for attention. Sort of like folks who type in all lower case, or regularly change the font on their posts.

They get attention, yes. But only in the way that people who talk too loudly or make inappropriate jokes in public do. And only for a short while, until people realize they're annoying enough to warrant ignoring.

Paul

Well said.

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Bill Eliott 13 years ago

Hope.

Watching a friend who is Internationally published in nine languages come up through the ranks has been interesting.

By her own admission she is an atrocious speller, punctuation shaky, no technical education and fights to use her true dialect with her editor at every book. Yet she reigns successful; hungry clamoring audience grows.

Her voice was not to be silenced and the lucky Publishing Company that eventually grabbed her recognized the raw talent and helped her cultivate to a best selling author.

For those of us with prose that echoes less than perfectly pristine, punctuation not politically correct, struggling to find a unique voice, there is hope and help out there. Take the derogatory, glean the good from it and push on.

Thought to include this going hand in hand to Ken's recent contribution.

Thank-you for your thoughts Ken C. and Don.

Bill e
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- Gail_Curran 13 years ago
  
  Using correct punctuation is not being "politically correct"; it's showing respect for the language and for the reader. Your musings are much more intelligible with the commas where they should be. You obviously know how to punctuate and your grasp of cadence is masterful. Failing to use your skills is merely self-indulgent, not clever.
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  Bill Eliott 13 years ago
  
  I paused at the 'politic' mention but had nothing. In it went. Correction appreciated Gail.
  
  Not meaning to be argumentative here but the last punctuation knowledge pounded into a resistant thick skull was from a private school English teaching Reverend who insisted on playing with an annoying spring loaded Frog, always desk center.
  I would assume you are referring to commas tidied up a tad, a tighter ended sentence dot here and there.
  The truth, they are 'mimics' derived from those good folk that have responded here. Went back, compared. Looked at my haphazard pause marks, glaringly obvious now.
  Yes I do realize that a quick Google would have dumped me into a snappy tutorial at any given time.
  
  Self-indulgent. Man, I am going to have to pull that procrastination plug and go see an unsuspecting psychoanalyst.
  Ah well, still need some time up on the Life Hoist, diagnostics ain't cheap.
  
  Thanks much for that Gail. I needed a Wing.
  
  Thanks
  
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Diana Lane

13 years ago

Good writers don't use tons of flowery and dramatic phrases when simply asking 'What makes a good writer?'

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Bill Eliott 13 years ago

Ah . A pragmatic , stop messing around , British answer .

Us primitive Colonists still evolve ,centuries behind .
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PeterDunin 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Diana Lane

Good writers don't use tons of flowery and dramatic phrases when simply asking 'What makes a good writer?'

I agree,it was a bit over the top.
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JennSpencerIM

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill e

Just arrived , eyes not fully open , far from being ''weaned off '' , I stagger new 'twixt dangling threads.

Many deal with writing . Article , copy , sales ; some types .
What do you consider to be '' good writing '' in the realm of the Internet Marketing field . Does technically correct count more than , original , fresh , out of the box jotted convincing words ?
Formulaic holds the key ?

I read many here as literate beings , phonetically correct , spelling in check ,intelligent yet say they are not good writers .

What literate' magical make-up makes the Good Writer inherently convincing ?

Back to the 'teat ,

Bill e

Maybe its late. But I couldn't read this or make sense of it at all....

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Bill Eliott 13 years ago

Carolina North , thank-you for an '' attempted read '' , I commend you to muster the energy to even post to this .

I love the Carolina's .Truly.
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Paul Myers

13 years ago

Jenn,

You're not the only one.

This person may just be trolling. If he's not, he's pretty much doomed as a writer. I doubt there's any point talking to him about the style and grammar issues, as they're deliberately chosen. He's got ego invested in them.

Paul

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Bill Eliott 13 years ago

Writing to troll was not the intention .

The intent was to garner a response from those that write much better than I .
Done . And very well at that .

Also a continuance through words to foster a possible interaction and relationship with those that write here within this particular Internet Marketing genre .

What'jya want Paul ? Drop the Word Gloves ?
Your a technician , I am not .

Spaces , pauses . conscious decision ? Whew .
You fall short with your prognosis .

Attention seeking ? Yes of course I am .
Is not every girl and man jack looking for attention with each post and inquiry submitted ?

Am I doing it with some contrivance attached ? Never and not so Senior Paul .
Here to learn , pick up some tips through reading great contributions from the majority of gracious posts , some offered here .

Did you not seek attention when posting here . Or just dropping in publicly to put me in your proper place ?
Feel free to PM, write direct or continue here . You have a need , let me fulfill it .

As far as the literary forensic spacing of comma , semi colon, and whatever else you read into my hack , how wrong you are .

I am nothing but an uneducated fool . Hadn't you realized?

Bill
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- Ken Strong 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bill e
  
  Is not every girl and man jack looking for attention with each post and inquiry submitted ?
  
  Yes, but the ones who are actually communicating something tend to stick around and become valued members here.
  
  The ones who just waste our time for the attention alone are usually gone pretty quickly.
  
  You've still got a little time left to switch your category. It's up to you, though.
  
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Bill Eliott

13 years ago

Point taken 3xsoldier . Input appreciated , the negative and positive .

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Bill Eliott 13 years ago

Supping the crusty cup of a.m. coffee while reflecting .

Invested ''ego'' Paul has mentioned does have me thinking . Had not considered that particular trait as detracting from the written word . If what I have to say through poetry , fiction , copy building has become rife with a narcissistic twist , then perhaps your right Paul , doom looms in a writing career ahead . I'll be exploring this further .

Without going into a dissertation with regards to particular writing styles one does develop certain characteristics I. Geographic influence of the Maritime kind differs from others .Attempts at humor within certain domains appears inappropriate .

Ken Strong . Trodding through a business Forum is foreign ground .
Directed communication would be toward Article Writing .
Many threads exist particular to this subject with more daily , I'll read on .
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TelZilla

13 years ago

I personally believe that Bill here is pulling the leg of a lot of people.

I find his writing quite humorous...

Of course, I am a glutton for punishment, after all, I did read War and Peace.

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Bewley

13 years ago

Originally Posted by TelZilla

I personally believe that Bill here is pulling the leg of a lot of people.

I find his writing quite humorous...

Of course, I am a glutton for punishment, after all, I did read War and Peace.

If it was intended as a joke, it is now beginning to wear a bit thin.

Methinks Bill e is beginning to sound a bit sill e

Adrian

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TelZilla

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bewley

If it was intended as a joke, it is now beginning to wear a bit thin.

Methinks Bill e is beginning to sound a bit sill e

Ah, whether it was meant as a joke or not, reviewing some of his past posts show he is indeed a wordsmith.

Although I am not a fan of poetry, and sill e it may seem at first glance, there is ring of truth to some of what he has written.

Just going by what he has written in this thread alone, I surmise he is a member of the "intelligentsia", or wants to be. He sounds entirely too much like some of my wife's friends... most of whom have doctorates in various disciplines, among them: history, philosophy, archaeology, and literature.

Their discussions tend to make me leave the room rather rapidly.

Of course I could be wrong, and if I am, so be it.

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JohnMcCabe

13 years ago

I've been reading a story set in the indeterminate future. One of the throwaway headlines in the news of the time was about the Nobel Prize for literature going to a poet whose work was made up entirely of punctuation...

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TelZilla

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

I've been reading a story set in the indeterminate future. One of the throwaway headlines in the news of the time was about the Nobel Prize for literature going to a poet whose work was made up entirely of punctuation...

Now THAT is funny... and kinda scary...

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Intrepreneur

13 years ago

I've become accustomed to a lot of people on the Internet not using grammar correctly, so to me a great writer is those people who at least make the effort to write grammatically in tune.

However a good writer is the one who wows the audience, and that can really only be decided by the audience to the writing of that good writer.

Of course, I too know a bit about writing but unfortunately sometimes I look at it and think, maybe a degree in this wouldn't go amiss, so I could look upon it knowing that it's totally correct.

What's shameful is to see these apparently "great writers", lowering the standards by selling their writing at rock bottom prices. A great writer should stand by a price point until they get it, or one will forever be in debt to their lack of pricing themselves how they should have always done.

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Bill Eliott

13 years ago

Tolstoy aside . Ulysses conjured by James Joyce, TelZilla ,that's the ticket.

"Intelligentsia"? Do they wear urgent terrifying Jack Boots ?
Similar to the Illuminati perhaps ? Yes, that is joking .

An intellectual discussion here in White Tail Valley might lean toward how quickly a lobster balanced on it's head , becomes immediately docile.
Then I'll chuck a juice bib at you, strap it on and start crackin'.

Lard' be praised Man . A back turned to an offered University education ,it's stead a hand bleedin' axeman's career, turned Logger ,to savior silviculturist.
The odd shy foray out of the Bush to business ventures, travel and then back beaten to the dark Wood yet again.

Thirty five plus years of Black fly bit , sore back cursin' Forest lore , straight up and personal . And that wasn't some sort of advertisement , only a way to convey you got the wrong Man .

A joke? Not at all . Yes I wrote with a weak attempt to perhaps evoke a smile or two. Habitual. A style misplaced within this particular Post .

I was truly interested in what other writers and contributors had to say . Listen to opinions. Quite a bit of my curiosity was quenched . Learned much and took some hits .
Expected , this is long time Forum with many close cultivated relationships forged over the years. I, respectful of that .

At the Wife's next stuffy stiff dinner party , take a Lobster with you .

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TelZilla

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bill e

Tolstoy aside . Ulysses conjured by James Joyce, TelZilla ,that's the ticket.

Haven't read Ulysses, but my wife just gave me a brief synopsis, well not really brief, but I got the gist of it.

"Intelligentsia"? Do they wear urgent terrifying Jack Boots ?
Similar to the Illuminati perhaps ? Yes, that is joking .

But funny nonetheless.

An intellectual discussion here in White Tail Valley might lean toward how quickly a lobster balanced on it's head , becomes immediately docile.
Then I'll chuck a juice bib at you, strap it on and start crackin'.

Is White Tail Valley on the West Coast? Near the Vancouver area perhaps?

Lard' be praised Man . A back turned to an offered University education ,it's stead a hand bleedin' axeman's career, turned Logger ,to savior silviculturist.
The odd shy foray out of the Bush to business ventures, travel and then back beaten to the dark Wood yet again.

Thirty five plus years of Black fly bit , sore back cursin' Forest lore , straight up and personal . And that wasn't some sort of advertisement , only a way to convey you got the wrong Man .

hmmm...

But perhaps I'm not too far off the mark in a way.

A man of the forest, with the education and experience of a silviculturist...

Time spent to be well read, and to think on those readings...

While you may not have spent time in University's classrooms, you have indeed, like myself, learned something that few will understand, nor take the time to.

Know thyself.

A joke? Not at all . Yes I wrote with a weak attempt to perhaps evoke a smile or two. Habitual. A style misplaced within this particular Post .

Some will understand, some won't. I do.

I was truly interested in what other writers and contributors had to say . Listen to opinions. Quite a bit of my curiosity was quenched . Learned much and took some hits .
Expected , this is long time Forum with many close cultivated relationships forged over the years. I, respectful of that .

I think the number one thing to take away from this would be...

There is no "right" or "wrong" way to write.

As long as the message is conveyed, received, and understood, the method of delivery means little.

At the next Wife's next stuffy stiff dinner party , take a Lobster with you .

LOL, I usually bring earplugs.

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Bill Eliott 13 years ago

''that can really only be decided by the audience to the writing of that good writer.''

True indeed .

A novelist in this Country has a block buster best seller with as little as 5,000 publications . They are not wealthy .

Your proud fierce Land, Intrepreneur, has spawned some of the best prose and poetry born from the thirsty quill tips of Human'kind .
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Bill Eliott 13 years ago

John hooker is that a small Tarpon you got up there ?

Now wouldn't that be a bracing read 'eh . What's the first paragraph start with ?

'' !! ? ,,, . ''
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- JohnMcCabe 13 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Bill e
  
  John hooker is that a small Tarpon you got up there ?
  
  Now wouldn't that be a bracing read 'eh . What's the first paragraph start with ?
  
  '' !! ? ,,, . ''
  
  It's actually a fair-sized snook (10-12 lb.), released right after that photo was taken.
  
  I think it was actually !! ? ,,, . ~~...
  
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Matthew NY

13 years ago

I'm a strong believer that making emotional connections with the reader is not always possible with every niche. Quite frankly, some niches are pretty bland and just for information purposes.

This idea makes it even more imperative for people to choose emotional niches. Writers have the ability to really grab the interest of the reader.

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Bill Eliott 13 years ago

Writing to Emotional niches , hmmm .

Bland niches . Thinking here .

Do It Yourself Spicy Coatings for ANY cut of Meat .
Configured Meat Niches ?

How would one blow on the dim flame of this one to eke out an emotional response ?

Own Your Meat ! Treat Your Meat !

You have just run the meat gauntlet down at the congested Piggly Wiggly .
A precious hour lost stuck, traffic backed, as the starved kids battled it out in the back seat.
Home now Supper roped roast lays succulent bare before you . OPEN to the Bovine Beefy Spice Section .
And so on ... .

I understand where you are coming from, the above nonsense aside .

Food for thought . Thank you Matt .
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dagaul101

13 years ago

I think the ability to grap the reader, and try to get them to see things as you wish them to

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Good writer , great writing ? How say You ?

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