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Calling All Warriors - I am REALLY UPSET and need YOUR HELP

by Jill Carpenter
33 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
Dear Fellow Warriors,

I am so angry and tired and disgusted and just can't take much more. I am putting out a sincere cry for help today.

I have been fighting a SCAM for over a year now. I have been attacked by the enemy for trying to expose the TRUTH.

Just today I noticed a Squidoo lens of mine was flagged. It is obvious to me this is an attack by the enemy who has been desperate to shut us up from exposing her and her website.

Just 2 days ago another member was banned from the paid for diet site for doing absolutely nothing wrong or illegal. Every time a member is banned, they are no longer able to contact their friends and get the support they PAID for.

I am looking to improve my Squidoo (just did some editing today) and GET THE WORD OUT.

This woman needs to be exposed for the fraud that she is.

My lens is set for CHARITY - meaning I do not get a single dime for any money made. This is NOT about money, this is about doing what is right.

I would like to ask you all to please visit: http://worst.diet.ever.com/

It is a Squidoo built on the ever project.

The new year will be here before you know it, and everyone will be looking for a diet. I need to get the word out right now before others are sucked into this scam.

We are involved in a class-action lawsuit but this is taking a very long time to play out.

I would like to do what ever I can to get this lens to a featured status to get the word out.

Most recently, there has been a big push for new affiliates for this program. People new to marketing are easily persuaded to sell something they don't have all the facts about.

Please, I am begging for some help. Please visit this lens and rate it. If you do not have a Squidoo account this is a great reason to join, and get going on a lens you can make for your online promotions.

Please be sure to check out the featured video from Steve Murphy.

I'm at my wits end today. I am in tears.
#calling #upset #warriors
  • Profile picture of the author Louis Raven
    EDIT> I'm sorry to hear that but how will us rating your Lens help you fight this scammer? <EDIT

    OK I went to the lens and see what it was about but alas.. well..

    Rule no.1

    Just imagine if everyone on the WarriorForum done this about their competition.

    Good luck,
    Louis
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    • Profile picture of the author radhika
      Originally Posted by Louis Raven View Post

      I'm sorry to hear that but how will us rating your Lens help you fight this scammer?
      Rating pushes up the pages for more exposure on these network sites.

      Avenuegirl, goodluck with that. Yes, these type scams must be stopped.

      .
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Louis Raven View Post

      I'm sorry to hear that but how will us rating your Lens help you fight this scammer?
      Rating this lens will bring it more attention to the Squidoo folk, and will bring it up in the ranking. If the lens can get a fair amount of action, it can hopefully become a featured lens, which Squidoo will email out to all users to see. Squidoo covers a HUGE crowd.


      That is why I'm also taking any advice on improving the lens and making it the best quality.

      Many ratings on this lens send a message to this scammer that we will not be intimidated. I have evidence where someone tried to initially flag a video I did on youtube called "how to join a lawsuit." She is out to discredit myself and many others.

      I have been named in a counter suit as well. It is all intimidation. Unfortunately, some have become very quiet out of fear of being named on a lawsuit. I have become a sacrificial lamb of sorts. I have put everything I can into this battle.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Louis Raven View Post

      EDIT> I'm sorry to hear that but how will us rating your Lens help you fight this scammer? <EDIT

      OK I went to the lens and see what it was about but alas.. well..

      Rule no.1

      I rated anyway but just imagine if everyone on the WarriorForum done this about their competition.

      Good luck,
      Louis
      She is not competition. She is a fraud selling bad advice and has no credentials.
      I am not promoting any diets at this time. This has purely to do with exposure, not my wanting to monetize. If we win the suit, I get back a whopping 39 dollars (if that).

      Thank you for looking at the lens.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
    I applaud your stand for the truth. I really do.

    But what are you really trying to prove by putting so much time, effort and probably money into this battle?

    Look at the toll it's taking on you. Is this how you want to be directing your energy into the world?

    Don't get me wrong. It's a noble thing you're doing. But again, the toll it's taking on you is massive - and that's clear from just one post.

    I believe we have to choose our battles very carefully. I also believe that the universe has a plan for people like this that we don't know or understand - and that most of the time their fate is consistent with what they put into the world.

    I'm not telling you to give up your stand. Your stand for the truth is honorable.

    I'm simply saying to examine whether or not this battle is worth continuing considering the toll it's taking on you personally.

    Ken
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

      I applaud your stand for the truth. I really do.

      But what are you really trying to prove by putting so much time, effort and probably money into this battle?

      Look at the toll it's taking on you. Is this how you want to be directing your energy into the world?

      Don't get me wrong. It's a noble thing you're doing. But again, the toll it's taking on you is massive - and that's clear from just one post.

      I believe we have to choose our battles very carefully. I also believe that the universe has a plan for people like this that we don't know or understand - and that most of the time their fate is consistent with what they put into the world.

      I'm not telling you to give up your stand. Your stand for the truth is honorable.

      I'm simply saying to examine whether or not this battle is worth continuing considering the toll it's taking on you personally.

      Ken
      Thank you for the concern Ken.

      She wants to wear us out. She wants this to all go away. Why do I continue on with this?

      This woman is extremely dangerous. If I knew I was saving just one person from doing this diet, it is worth every ounce of frustration and anger.

      It has already been determined that this woman has tried to start NEW DIET SCAMS. I would hate to see anyone here, or a family member of anyone here suffer from following the advice given. I would hate to see your honest dollars go to someone who built a multi-million dollar membership site on fraud.

      I could have just dropped out of the scene and done my own thing. Part of me will not just let it go. I tried to "retire" myself from the cause on several occasions, and every time I do something happens that tells me this is not over and I need to jump back in and continue until she is stopped.

      She fits the profile of a sociopath. Her own children have testified against her in court that she has issues with telling the truth.

      She has used just enough truth mixed with lies to be convincing and she preys on peoples biggest fears. She claimed to people she had been through gastric bypass, and in court revealed this was never true. She has scrubbed the inside of the website in a effort to hide all the lies, and we luckily got screen shots of some of the evidence. She tried to "fix" the diet, but most recently has been found to still be doling out the same dangerous advice - telling people to cut back more and more on calories. Many former members have now been subjected to eating disorders. She convinces members that regular laxitive use is okay.

      It is one thing that she stole pictures from a Russian bride site as her after picture. It is quite another to be dishing out diet advice which can really harm people. And it is despicable that members are banned from a paid for site for no reason what so ever. She plays with peoples heads.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
        Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

        Thank you for the concern Ken.

        She wants to wear us out. She wants this to all go away. Why do I continue on with this?

        This woman is extremely dangerous. If I knew I was saving just one person from doing this diet, it is worth every ounce of frustration and anger.

        It has already been determined that this woman has tried to start NEW DIET SCAMS. I would hate to see anyone here, or a family member of anyone here suffer from following the advice given. I would hate to see your honest dollars go to someone who built a multi-million dollar membership site on fraud.

        I could have just dropped out of the scene and done my own thing. Part of me will not just let it go. I tried to "retire" myself from the cause on several occasions, and every time I do something happens that tells me this is not over and I need to jump back in and continue until she is stopped.

        She fits the profile of a sociopath. Her own children have testified against her in court that she has issues with telling the truth.

        She has used just enough truth mixed with lies to be convincing and she preys on peoples biggest fears. She claimed to people she had been through gastric bypass, and in court revealed this was never true. She has scrubbed the inside of the website in a effort to hide all the lies, and we luckily got screen shots of some of the evidence. She tried to "fix" the diet, but most recently has been found to still be doling out the same dangerous advice - telling people to cut back more and more on calories. Many former members have now been subjected to eating disorders. She convinces members that regular laxitive use is okay.

        It is one thing that she stole pictures from a Russian bride site as her after picture. It is quite another to be dishing out diet advice which can really harm people. And it is despicable that members are banned from a paid for site for no reason what so ever. She plays with peoples heads.
        Understood. But here's the thing.

        There are hundreds upon hundreds of scam sites like this - probably thousands in the diet industry. I realize you are trying to do your small part. But your "small part" is turning into a huge nightmare for you personally.

        If you are intent on this being your mission that's fine. But it might be good to define some end game criteria just for the sake of sanity - e.g. "if circumstance A, B or C occur then I'm done fighting this battle."

        One final thing I'll say about legal battles - and I've learned this the hard way:

        Whoever has the most money ultimately prevails.

        It's not that you couldn't still have a moral victory and I'm certainly not saying I know a thing about your own financial situation.

        What I'm saying is that people who have the money to defend against truth police - even if the claims are fully justified - WILL defend and will do so at any cost. You are seeing that play out right now.

        The question you must ask yourself is whether the payoff (moral or otherwise) is worth the rising costs (both personal and financial)?

        Whatever choice you make I wish you the best with the situation.

        Ken
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        • Profile picture of the author psresearch
          Originally Posted by Ken Preuss View Post

          Understood. But here's the thing.

          There are hundreds upon hundreds of scam sites like this - probably thousands in the diet industry. I realize you are trying to do your small part. But your "small part" is turning into a huge nightmare for you personally.

          If you are intent on this being your mission that's fine. But it might be good to define some end game criteria just for the sake of sanity - e.g. "if circumstance A, B or C occur then I'm done fighting this battle."

          One final thing I'll say about legal battles - and I've learned this the hard way:

          Whoever has the most money ultimately prevails.

          It's not that you couldn't still have a moral victory and I'm certainly not saying I know a thing about your own financial situation.

          What I'm saying is that people who have the money to defend against truth police - even if the claims are fully justified - WILL defend and will do so at any cost. You are seeing that play out right now.

          The question you must ask yourself is whether the payoff (moral or otherwise) is worth the rising costs (both personal and financial)?

          Whatever choice you make I wish you the best with the situation.

          Ken
          Wow. Good thinking, Ken.

          Tell that to the woman who started FraudAid.
          Tell that to the man who started eagleresearchassociates.org
          Tell that to the group that started Artists Against 419

          and thousands of others "misguided souls" and groups that work with the FBI, Secret Service, and other arms of law enforcement.

          Most of them started out just like AvenueGirl because they had an inner drive to fight and compassion for potential future losses of the victims.

          I know ONE organization in particular that was instrumental in getting the Secret Service involved in getting a huge amount of assets seized from a gigantic ponzi scheme and it was based on a small technicality that he drew to the Secret Services' attention.

          I personally spent A LOT of time working with the producer of an upcoming 20/20 segment schooling her about the current Rebate Processing scams going on and it's going to be a major part of a coming show their doing on Work At Home Scams (now let's just hope she remembers to give me that link!).

          Doing all this may have been a huge nightmare AT FIRST but in the long run it's turned out to be a huge gift for myself and other people.
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          • Profile picture of the author Sean Bissell
            Kimkins does have some legal action against them as well.

            Hopefully they'll be shut down very soon.

            Here's a good video on the subject.

            Headline Legal News: Kimkins Diet Scandal | John E. Tiedt of The Law Office of Tied & Hurd

            I'm very involved in the Weight Loss industry and I mailed out an alert to avoid Kimkins to one of my lists.

            Strangely enough, that email (warning against Kimkins) got the highest spam complaint I've ever received. (5.8%)

            Pretty bizzare.

            Anyhow. I hope Kimkins gets shut down... and soon.

            Thanks for fighting for what's right AvenueGirl.
            -Sean
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            • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
              Thank you everyone who has stopped by to visit today. I see the ratings and it brings tears of joy to my eyes. Seriously.

              It has been a long battle and I know it is far from over. I know I can't rely on coming in here and crying every time I need some assistance, but the boost has really helped me today.

              We have reported her to just about every agency under the sun. I even did a youtube video on "how to file a complaint with the FTC."

              As far as the FTC is concerned they tend to go after those with a lot more money.

              You wont "gain" anything from this, except stress. What's the point?
              You wouldn't know it but there is so much to gain from doing this type of work.
              I have made some friendships that will last the rest of my life. I have met ladies who never even did the diet or were a member and they spend hours every day digging up new information and doing what they can to help. I had no idea before I got into this whole thing that those types of people even existed. I perhaps had some guilt in the past - as I did the diet and was an affiliate for the product - but anything I made has been paid back and then some in the time I have dedicated to this. It is no longer done out of any guilt or shame - I was misinformed and it was my first real go-around in IM. You learn from your mistakes. Without those mistakes there is no real progress.

              What can I gain? I could create a product or a guide now on things to do to combat an online scam. Places to go, how to find information on the web, how to find out just how far your enemies reach can go. I can tell people how to get backlinks removed from other peoples websites. How to get article submission places to pull an authors articles and any other ones associated with a bad product. How to get a support group in place and a mastermind team. How to get your members all blogging and how to network those blogs. How to take over the whole front page results of Google - with exception to the company you are combating who owns the original dot com. How to trap IP addresses of those visiting your site for further investigation to find out who was coming, where they came from and eventually figure out which team they are pitching for. Who is a sock puppet and who is a real person. How to find what ads exactly are being used to promote your enemy.

              I have gained so much knowledge, you do not want me on the wrong side.
              And no, I don't get paid in money, but I have learned more about internet marketing than you can imagine.

              I admit, I get emotional from time to time, but who wouldn't be stressed by the fire that once burned you personally. I am human and I have emotions.

              Anyway, you have all been so kind today to help just give enough of a push to restore me to a better state of mind.

              I think there is a limit to the number of thanks I can give in a day other than just writing it

              LOL, I went to post and I got a special announcement and had to come back.
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              • Profile picture of the author psresearch
                Originally Posted by avenuegirl View Post

                Thank you everyone who has stopped by to visit today. I see the ratings and it brings tears of joy to my eyes. Seriously.

                It has been a long battle and I know it is far from over. I know I can't rely on coming in here and crying every time I need some assistance, but the boost has really helped me today.

                We have reported her to just about every agency under the sun. I even did a youtube video on "how to file a complaint with the FTC."

                As far as the FTC is concerned they tend to go after those with a lot more money.



                You wouldn't know it but there is so much to gain from doing this type of work.
                I have made some friendships that will last the rest of my life. I have met ladies who never even did the diet or were a member and they spend hours every day digging up new information and doing what they can to help. I had no idea before I got into this whole thing that those types of people even existed. I perhaps had some guilt in the past - as I did the diet and was an affiliate for the product - but anything I made has been paid back and then some in the time I have dedicated to this. It is no longer done out of any guilt or shame - I was misinformed and it was my first real go-around in IM. You learn from your mistakes. Without those mistakes there is no real progress.

                What can I gain? I could create a product or a guide now on things to do to combat an online scam. Places to go, how to find information on the web, how to find out just how far your enemies reach can go. I can tell people how to get backlinks removed from other peoples websites. How to get article submission places to pull an authors articles and any other ones associated with a bad product. How to get a support group in place and a mastermind team. How to get your members all blogging and how to network those blogs. How to take over the whole front page results of Google - with exception to the company you are combating who owns the original dot com. How to trap IP addresses of those visiting your site for further investigation to find out who was coming, where they came from and eventually figure out which team they are pitching for. Who is a sock puppet and who is a real person. How to find what ads exactly are being used to promote your enemy.

                I have gained so much knowledge, you do not want me on the wrong side.
                And no, I don't get paid in money, but I have learned more about internet marketing than you can imagine.

                I admit, I get emotional from time to time, but who wouldn't be stressed by the fire that once burned you personally. I am human and I have emotions.

                Anyway, you have all been so kind today to help just give enough of a push to restore me to a better state of mind.

                I think there is a limit to the number of thanks I can give in a day other than just writing it

                LOL, I went to post and I got a special announcement and had to come back.
                Excellent way to think about it! Yes, there are FINANCIAL opportunities even as you help stop this nonsense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Glenn Newsome
      Visited and rated.
      Glenn
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  • Profile picture of the author Elljay
    Tried to visit and rate but cant login at the moment!! But I just wanted to say thanks for the powerful lens, people like her target on the generation of today who are constantly bombarded with waif like celebs and models, and who try to succumb to these ridiculous ideas of how women should look. This woman is a danger and her 'diet' needs to be brought to the attention of everyone and she needs to be stopped.

    Rant over xx
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  • Profile picture of the author richfit
    Ken,

    You hit the nail on the head.

    "What you focus on expands."

    That is a natural law of the Universe that will be true no matter what you believe. You need to choose where to focus your energy.

    I suggest to focus your energy helping people lose weight the right way. People are going to buy into that quick fix, fat to fit, mindset.

    I would be interested to know what you are attracting into your life because of this very emotional battle that you are fighting.

    I understand your concern for people and your desire for the truth. Stand for what you believe and go on preaching the truth. In the end, fighting the enemy is only going to steal your energy from you.

    Best,

    Bryan Dulaney
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      There are plans for this woman that extend beyond what is going on right now.

      Ken, I have to tell you she has already lashed out that we have been causing some distress to her economic advantage. Like it has nothing to do with her own lies. If everyone acted or didn't act based on "Whoever has the most money ultimately prevails" this would be the worst world to live in.

      If the Kimkins site gets a 404 then I am done. It is a clear criteria.

      I would be interested to know what you are attracting into your life because of this very emotional battle that you are fighting.
      Rich, I am attracting people with compassion. I am attracting people who realize my character as someone who will stand up for what I believe and help a worthy cause in any way I can.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard B Riddick
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by Richard B Riddick View Post

          Where's the proof that she's a scam?

          Ok .. On paper it looks good. But it's "way too low"? -- Not buying it yet...

          No maintenance plan -- Ok, so it's negligent. Maybe she makes poor products? She sold you a diet, you got a diet. Maintaining it is, nothing personally, you're own problem. -- I'm still not on board with this being a "scam"...

          I see no pictures, therefore, I am willing to dismiss this as hear-say... Especially when combined with above... PLUS, my perception as an American consumer is that most of the before/after pictures are bullshit, anyway --- Still not buying the "scam" argument...

          I see no medical evidence backing this up... Ok, so I can starve... But I don't even know what her diet is. So you're just throwing facts at me that I can't make connections with... -- Still not on board with the "scam"... Maybe "harmful" now, but not "scam"...

          Starving yourself makes you lose weight, but isn't healthy for you. I knew that. Does she say starve yourself? Well, then anyone who bought her diet is uninformed anyways -- Still not on board with the "scam"..

          And then attacking the person?

          My advice? (And above was me playing Devil'a Advocate) Sit down and think this through.

          If you want people to believe "scam"... You need "scam" evidence, because right now, you're coming across as emotional and lashing out.

          Ie. Counter-"scam"

          If you want people to beleive "harmful" ... You need to get medical evidence, and cross-examine it with her diet plans. Facts. Specifics.

          If you want people to believe "scammer"... You also need more hardocre evidence.

          Take the emotion OUT of the pitch.

          This isn't selling someone something, this is unselling them, so you're going to need to load up as many details and facts as possible.

          Right now, you're not making that case well.

          ...My 2 cents.
          I will take your advice into re-writing some of the information. Thank you for looking.

          I have more scam evidence then you care to see. LOL - those pictures on the page are of Heidi Diaz. Maybe that should be made more clear. But perhaps you missed where I mentioned that she used pictures taken from a Russian bride site as her after shots - and made claims of losing a massive amount of weight and keeping it off (not scamish?). Maybe that just wasn't clear enough. Did you look at the video? That too carries a lot of information. It is part of the lens. The video discusses how she promoted 500 calories a day (even less in some cases ) which is quite low when compared to 800 calories being considered borderline starvation. Perhaps I should move the insider video up higher? Add some numbers in writing?
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard B Riddick
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              Sounds like you've accomplished quite a bit so far. Just protect yourself and don't invest too much of "you" into the battle. Maybe on those days when you feel you've hit a wall - you need to leave it for a week or two.

              I can't even talk about diets as I've never been on one but it does seem to be a bit like the "make money online newbie niche" where anything touted as "easy, painless, fast results" lures people in. It is amazing that people will use something like laxatives, or other "aids" just because someone they don't know tells them to - dangerous, too.

              I've been appalled by some of the diet sites I've seen online. Once you get beyond "eat less and exercise more" - and some low-cal recipes...looks like everything else is just "dressed up" to appeal to hope and to people's need to have "a plan" (and to sell as much "diet stuff" as possible).

              kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Doug Simons
    Ok Ill do it for a thank you
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by Doug Simons View Post

      Ok Ill do it for a thank you
      Doug, I think you need to spend a bit more time on this forum. Don't get me wrong - I'm extremely thankful to everyone who has taken the time to visit, and have been passing out some thank you's will even thank Richard - don't know if he voted or not but he took the time to play Devils advocate and try to point out ways to sell my point a bit better.

      If you are going to go just to get a thank you then I am saddened that you wouldn't go to see what all this is really about.

      As important as this is, it cheapens my thank you. I don't believe that is the true spirit here in the Warrior forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Grundberg
    Hey- Visited and rated 5 stars.

    And no, you DON'T have to thank ME.

    Thank YOU for outing this scumbag.

    Gman

    PS - I also bookmarked it to OnlyWire with these tags:
    diet kimkins heidi-diaz heidi-kimberly heidi kimberly diaz scam scumbag
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    • Profile picture of the author Marie Pugh
      Hi!

      I just voted for it - and I personally think what you are doing is a very good thing. People deserve to know the truth. Saying that the people with the most money will win, or saying that it isn't beneficial to you to be focusing energy on something negative like this is a bit irresponsible IMHO.

      That kind of thinking allows people like this to keep getting away with this kind of stuff. Not to mention, it makes it look very bad for Internet Marketers - we don't need scams like this making people even more mistrusting towards the internet. To just turn your back on something that is wrong is never the right thing to do.

      Good for you for taking up this fight. There are too many young girls falling victim to scams like these and ending up battling eating disorders and other illnesses for the rest of their lives.

      Good luck to you!

      Marie
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  • Profile picture of the author ECoughlin
    Hi,

    I used to be a member of the Kimkins affiliate program. Sounded like a great program to me until I stumbled upon some testimonials on the internet from people who ended up with eating disorders after being on her program. I immediately removed all links from my site and felt very badly that I may have caused someone to go on this program by providing links to it. So I will gladly rate your lens and I hope that this woman gets shut down soon.

    One thing I would suggest is that you contact the FDA? It's worth a shot although if she's not selling a product, there may not be anything they can do either.

    Best wishes,

    Eunice
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    Hey, my name is Eunice.
    I've been an Internet Marketer since 2005.
    If you want to, you can connect with me on Facebook and Twitter. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    As a registered nurse and a woman I applaud your efforts here.

    Keep adding the proof to your page - you are doing a good job.
    If you keep the ball rolling on discrediting this diet, eventually "you" will win.
    Don't become obsessed with it though - thats not healthy for you.

    Use your skills with internet marketing and website creation/promotion to get the word out about how this diet is a scam. Has the FTC been notified? I'm sure they would be interested in this as well.

    Continue to educate people on why this diet is dangerous (as the videos show).
    Just realize that as people become desperate in their own personal battles (weight loss being one of them) they will try almost anything. You can't stop people from trying her methods you can only alert people on the dangers.

    Be very careful doing anything that would give her grounds to sue you and win - you certainly don't need that.

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    No offense,

    on one hand i applaud to you..on the other i dont understand AT ALL.

    You wont "gain" anything from this, except stress. What's the point?

    if i were to go out and look for scams all over the net...i would sit there 24/7 exposing scams...i really dont see the point.

    Let the customers decide, if its a product which is a scam it will utimately FAIL anyway. If it works..power for them.

    Are you personally involved in this...or why this motivation to expose this person at all costs?

    You will go through a lot of stress, money..at the end you MIGHT even win the lawsuit....but people will NOT hail you the new jesus after this....in fact this will be forgotten soon and the next scam will pop up anywhere else. Sorry to be so honest.


    G.
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  • Profile picture of the author ecoverartist
    I wish there were more people like avenuegirl in this world...

    Side note -- I wonder if this person is featured on sites like the ripoffreport.com - they do investigate things like this after a number of claims to see if its fraudulent or not and they post their investigations live.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    Stay strong avenuegirl. Thanks for sharing this. I have rated it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Jones
    Your doing a great thing letting people know about this!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    I think you are doing a great thing - just keep it all in perspective so you don't damage your own health.

    Now for the others who have asked why she should do this...

    This isn't some diet pill that if you take it, it works or doesn't work. With a pill, if it doesn't work, no harm done.

    This woman is doing harm by offering her advice. People are accepting her advice as a previously over weight (which we know is bogus advertising) person. She has put herself out there as an authority figure.

    Eating disorders are at an all time high especially with young women. Society (via magazines and models) has been dictating for years that all women must be a size 4 so there is a lot of pressure out there.

    In the quest to be beautiful (and thin) women want to believe in the promises that a web site like that will make.

    Giving dieting advice as a person who "has been there done that" and is perceived as an expert carries a great responsibility. If this person is promoting 500 cal diets and the indiscriminate use of laxatives then she is abusing her position and giving very damaging advice.

    She is causing harm.

    This goes beyond the pill that doesn't work. This has the potential to destroy ones quality of life or kill them.
    Prolonged use of laxatives will do irreparable damage to the digestive system. 500 cal diets fall into the starvation category and can do long lasting damage to the kidneys, liver, and muscles.
    Not to mention the potential for heart failure as laxitives, direuretics and starvation techniques upset the bodies electrolyte balance (especially the potassium levels)

    So, as an "expert" in the field of dieting - she must be stopped.
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgettaSterling
      First, kudos to you avenuegirl! Exposing real scams is a worthy activity.

      To the folks that say "why would you do this" with the implication that if it doesn't provide a profit, then it isn't worthwhile - when were your souls extracted from your bodies? When did you give up on compassion or on basic human decency, or helping your fellow human? When did it become ok to do anything for a dollar, or to ignore anything that doesn't bring you a dollar?

      If nobody ever did anything about injustices in the world, it would be a much bleaker place. Many of you benefit from those that fight injustice and yet you want to criticize those who are doing the fighting? If you think it is all "just let it go" and "law of attraction will take care of things" then you should GIVE BACK all the benefits you have gotten from the efforts of others. Right now.

      Now, I am not picking on you Debbie, but you wrote:

      Originally Posted by Debbie Songster View Post

      This isn't some diet pill that if you take it, it works or doesn't work. With a pill, if it doesn't work, no harm done.
      I have to respectfully disagree. First, many "diet pills" are terribly physically harmful. Second, if they do nothing, then they leave people feeling MORE helpless about their condition. Those are both pretty big "harms" in my book.

      When I was 13 I gained some weight. Being a short, pudgy 13 year old girl isn't a recipe for a happy teenage life. My parents weren't helpful - they "assumed" that I was lazy or sneaking food (I wasn't). Turned out to be a hormonal issue that required some medical intervention, and it was cleared up eventually.

      Unfortunately, in the mean time I was a DUMB, short, pudgy 13 year old girl. I tried crash/starvation diets, ridiculous aerobic routines etc. Then out of desperation, I bought some diet pills. I think they contained ephedrine or something like that. Taking those pills didn't actually help me lose weight, but they made me sleepless, dizzy, spaced out, gave me a dangerously rapid heart rate, but I only stopped them after my kidneys started to fail.

      They were sold over the counter at a drugstore (yes, it was quite a few years ago...).

      People still sell dangerous stuff like that to dumb, desperate kids, as well as dumb, desperate adults. It is one thing to say "Buyer beware" and that's fine, but since we don't train people to be such vigilant buyers, and the marketplace is a classic example of the "imperfect informational system" we are forced to at least slow down some of the worst scammers. There is a reason we can morally as well as legally call fraud a crime - it hurts people (and fraudsters love to target the most desperate, most uninformed, and the ignorant youth - e.g. the weakest members of our society).

      I don't like fraudsters. I don't want them in my world. I am glad that folks like avenuegirl work to remove sociopaths, fraudsters and the like from our world.

      Best Regards, Georgetta
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  • Profile picture of the author ecoverartist
    What avenuegirl gets out of this is a great big heaping pile of good karma.

    The universe/nature/God has its own set of checks and balances and it does stir the pot every so often to remind you "who's in charge".

    Keep on fighting the good fight, Jill!
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    Georgetta
    You are absolutely correct - pills can be just as harmful. Fortunately in recent years they have become more regulated and the experience you had many years ago doesn't happen as frequently.

    There is a big difference with pills vs dieting advice. Dieting advice becomes very personal and the influence exerted is more than the pressure to use a diet pill.
    Both are harmful but in different ways.
    The failure of any diet (even a clinically proven one) can be psychologically damaging. Thats bad enough as you well know.

    Anyone who provides information in the health field niche has a moral and ethical responsibility to provide accurate and complete data.
    Deceptive advertising in this niche is extremely dangerous.
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    • Profile picture of the author radiohead
      Banned
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Tell that to the woman who started FraudAid.
        Tell that to the man who started eagleresearchassociates.org
        Tell that to the group that started Artists Against 419
        It's one thing to have a site that tells you how to protect yourself from scams online - or even running a site where various scams are exposed.

        It's another when you target a particular program and attempt to expose that one person/program as fraudulent.

        who wouldn't be stressed by the fire that once burned you personally
        I had to go back to your post and reread before seeing the comment above. Yet reading your lens made me look for that comment because this battle seems so personal.

        The FTC responds slowly but does respond to mutliple complaints - so you might focus on convincing past members of this diet scam to file complaints. Not sure what her diet violates - perhaps truth in advertising laws.

        Part of me will not just let it go.
        But how far do you take it? Do you risk your own financial health and mental peace to punish someone you have targeted as "the enemy".

        She fits the profile of a sociopath. Her own children have testified against her in court that she has issues with telling the truth.
        Comments like the above give me pause - and make me question motives.
        Are you qualified to judge mental health or to diagnose mental illness?

        She has used just enough truth mixed with lies to be convincing and she preys on peoples biggest fears. She claimed to people she had been through gastric bypass, and in court revealed this was never true. She has scrubbed the inside of the website in a effort to hide all the lies, and we luckily got screen shots of some of the evidence. She tried to "fix" the diet, but most recently has been found to still be doling out the same dangerous advice - telling people to cut back more and more on calories. Many former members have now been subjected to eating disorders. She convinces members that regular laxitive use is okay.
        She has been to court - and nothing happened? If the court did not find fault with her actions, what's the point in continuing to pursue it? Who diagnosed and documented these "many eating disorders"? There is an element of personal responsibility when it comes to following dietary or any lifestyle advice. How naive does someone have to be to think it's ok to overuse laxatives?

        I'm not putting you down because I think it's admirable to stand up and speak out against a scam or dangerous practice. However, it shouldn't be a crusade that you can't give up. The questions I'm asking are the ones that came to mind as I read your comments and lens.

        There are many bad diets promoted - not just this one. A lens or site that evaluates diet plans, gives advice for how to spot dangerous advice about dieting - and also exposes VARIOUS bad diet plans - could be effective and profitable for you.

        A site that continues to add every bit of info against one product (the diet plan) and one person reads like a revenge/attack site.

        While I don't question your motives or the factual information you give, I think it could be done in a better way. Of more concern is that you are investing so much emotional energy into something you may not be able to control or stop. I worry that the damage to you may be greater than the damage you can do to "the enemy".

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Kay, the class has not been officially "certified" at this time.

          The case is going to be taken care of in Corona CA in Riverside and from what I understand they are extremely backed up.

          Our own lawyer and many others have pointed out the "sociopath" tendencies and if I could share all the details I know at this time you'd be appalled. No, I'm not a doctor, but if it walks like a duck - I could be wrong - and that is why I worded it the way that I have.

          I have a blog, which has touched on other scams or possible scams going on. This particular scam just happens to be my largest focus. It hit close to home, and has impacted many who I consider to be friends.

          Everything up to this point has been over a year of just getting depositions and each side preparing to build their case. We have accomplished some things like getting assets frozen, and have spent a lot of time trying to inform the public as the site is still alive and selling and promoting. We have an extremely strong case. For anyone who doubts this I am really perplexed.

          I don't feel I am an expert at diets or nutrition - especially after this. I am learning new things every day and the others who I work with blow me away with their research and knowledge - but they are not marketers.

          Thank you for your advice. Like I said, there were just a few things going on and I felt hit like a rock yesterday. It was encouraging to see so many people with compassion.

          Thanks again Kay!
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