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External HD with sensitive data smoking - safe to send back to company or not?

by jchengery
27 replies
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Hello everyone, I hope 2011 is being good to all of you so far! :-)

I have the following Ex. HD (2 of them actually):
Newegg.com - Fantom Drives G-Force 2TB USB 2.0 / eSATA Silver External Hard Drive GF2000EU32

When I turned on the second one (that had a $10 MIR, which I sent to the company about 5 days before this incident, thereby preventing a return to Newegg and/or receiving a refund for this drive) the one morning to back up my files, it started smoking. I had used it about 6-7 times before with no trouble, 3 times with USB, 3 times with eSATA. I'm not sure if my computer recognized the drive when I turned it on - was too concerned about the smoke - but I don't believe it recognized it (there was no "bing" or "ping" sound if I recall correctly).

The drive itself had a strong smell of smoke for 3-4 days; even 7 days after the incident, I can still smell a faint scent of smoke in the back part of it, where the connections are. For the record, I plugged the USB 2.0 cable and power adapter into the drive at the time when it started smoking, not eSATA.

The problem is that there are some sensitive files on that drive. My concern isn't really with losing the data - I have other copies that are up-to-date (thankfully). My main concern is sending it back to the company (Fantom/Micronet) because of the sensitive data. Can I trust a company with my sensitive data and expect the drive to either be returned to me in a new case (if it's the case that's the problem) or sent back to the manufacturer (if the drive itself is faulty)?

I know the company has been providing hard drive storage solutions for 22 years, but I still have my concerns. Additionally, I don't know who the manufacturer of the HD itself is - I may have seen it once or twice when the drive was working, but I can't say for sure who (Samsung? Hitachi? Not sure).

I read on one forum where someone commented on if the manufacturer is based in China or in the Orient that they have a practice of reselling bad drives and/or accessing whatever data they can get a hold of from the drive. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but it is making me leery of sending it back, even though the company representative says that extracting data from a damaged drive is a costly proposition and one that they (Fantom/Micronet, who are based in California, I believe) will not undertake without someone paying for it (I'm certainly not).

He also said that it's likely the manufacturer of the HD itself would have similar practices, but he couldn't say for sure, which is all the more reason why I am concerned - if the drive is faulty, as we think it is, the manufacturer would get it, then be able to do whatever with it.

Therefore, what would you advise I do? Send the drive back to Fantom/Micronet and risk my sensitive files? Try to make the drive unusable so that no one can access it (not sure how to go about doing this - would putting magnets on or near the drive work? Would just crushing it with something heavy or dropping it somewhere work?) Another option (possibly taking out the drive and putting it in a new enclosure, though I have never done anything like that before and would be pretty lost at trying to do this)?

I'd hate to lose the money I spent on it, but I don't want my sensitive data to be compromised - I'd be willing to lose the money before having my sensitive data in the "wrong hands."

Therefore, I'd appreciate any and all advice you can provide, including how reputable these companies are (although it really only takes one employee to compromise your data, so I'm still leery even though Fantom/Micronet seems to have a good reputation). Thank you.

Please take care and have a great day!

Joe Chengery III
#external hard drive #fantom #micronet #return hard drive #smoking hard drive
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The drive itself COULD be OK. Unless it is collateral damage, the drive likely IS ok. Even if it weren't, it likely WILL be rebuilt. If it is rebuilt, and not PROPERLY erased, there is a GOOD chance the buyer can recover the data. BTW even if you ask them to repair the drive, unless you ask them to recover the data, someone else might get it. Such contracts USUALLY have a "repair or replace, at OUR option" clause. Even if they didn't, mistakes happen! Too much work goes into a drive to merely SCRAP IT.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Hi Steve.

      So - what do you think of the windows 'shredder' apps? i have never used it but it is on my system or was it mcafee maybe.

      so kill all files with hard drive format = was the data still there somewhere? in fragments? encrypted?

      with a shredder for docs that would help right?

      of course computer forensics - can they find deleted stuff - yes.
      so hackers must know how to get around it but they can't unencrypt? tell me its true.


      i am glad for this conversation too. As I learned something about what not to do. (i usually give my old pcs away but i will think twice now.)

      i wouldn't send my hard drive back Joe. no way.

      If you look at that ugly rumor from another related perspective - worms and viruses are 'getting into' hardware/software when it is shipped out even from like DVD drives, speakers, electronics manufacturing plants "OFF SHORE" in general -

      ... it does happen - they say it is not necessarily intentional - the workers just test them and try them out and they 'catch' stuff'. OK so just stupid. Whatever, we DON"T BUY IT.

      So I can definitely see the same gang of rats just about everywhere in commerce and that includes ecommerce - that is if they are from the intentional camp.

      EDIT: AND it would not surprise me if they were into IDENTITY THEFT not just THEFT OF DATA.








      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      The drive itself COULD be OK. Unless it is collateral damage, the drive likely IS ok. Even if it weren't, it likely WILL be rebuilt. If it is rebuilt, and not PROPERLY erased, there is a GOOD chance the buyer can recover the data. BTW even if you ask them to repair the drive, unless you ask them to recover the data, someone else might get it. Such contracts USUALLY have a "repair or replace, at OUR option" clause. Even if they didn't, mistakes happen! Too much work goes into a drive to merely SCRAP IT.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Steve, I appreciate the info. - thank you.

    The more I'm thinking about it, the more risky it is to allow someone else to have access to that hard drive. I'm fortunate that losing the data isn't my main concern, since I have other copies, but rather, if someone else can gain access that data - that's my main concern.

    Sounds like it would be the wiser option to just "chuck" the drive itself and absorb the monetary loss (wasn't too much, less than the drive costs now in fact), rather than risk my data falling into the wrong hands. I've heard that you can possibly remove the drive and try "mounting" (I think that's the right word) it onto another external case, but I heard that it's extremely difficult and requires much soldering, desoldering, etc., a skill that I'm not really skilled at, probably not at the level that is required to successfully complete the operation.

    Therefore, I would think destroying the drive would be the best option - the question is, what would be the most effective method that would virtually ensure that no one could ever read the drive? Any thoughts and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated - thanks!

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Sincerely,

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      Sounds like it would be the wiser option to just "chuck" the drive itself and absorb the monetary loss (wasn't too much, less than the drive costs now in fact), rather than risk my data falling into the wrong hands. I've heard that you can possibly remove the drive and try "mounting" (I think that's the right word) it onto another external case, but I heard that it's extremely difficult and requires much soldering, desoldering, etc., a skill that I'm not really skilled at, probably not at the level that is required to successfully complete the operation.
      MOST such drives are rather STANDARD with the SAME mounting holes, interface types, etc... Soldering the drive would be STUPID! Too much effort, non standard, frustrates repair, and could damage the drive, so they are generally PLUGGED IN! So you would likely have NO soldering or desoldering to do. If they had the same interface as your computer, you could likely just open the enclosure, unscrew a few bolts, disconnect the cables, and reverse the operation in your computer.

      Therefore, I would think destroying the drive would be the best option - the question is, what would be the most effective method that would virtually ensure that no one could ever read the drive? Any thoughts and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated - thanks!
      Although not perfect, WD minos suggestion on destruction is probably the simplest way to do the most damage. I would say hit it with a hammer in several spots. The idea is to hopefully jam the mechanism, and damage the platters and heads. Keep in mind though that the heads DO generally lock away to protect both.

      Patrician,

      By writing several bit patterns several times, the shredder apps do pretty well. The hardware is INTENTIONALLY designed to read fields over a certain level. If they read lower levels, they couldn't seek the tracks and sectors, and plain wouldn't work. The reason for the multiple passes is to frustrate trying to use OTHER hardware to directly read the media.

      Formatting disks takes a VERY long time, and you have to map bad blocks. With the LARGE drives today, I have NO idea how long that would take, but it would be VERY LONG! And since the limiting factor is the speed of the drive, a faster computer wouldn't make it much faster. So WHY does it seem to work so fast when you "format" a drive? They renamed formats on hard disk drives over a decade ago. The format is now called a "low level format". What they call a format today just sets a few pointers, and deallocates some blocks. So the directory LOOKS empty. ALL the data is STILL THERE! And DELETE on disk drives has always only set a few flags and deallocated the space. The data REMAINS! Unless you happen to REALLOCATE a deallocated block, and write over it, that data is still there.

      What people call hackers TODAY couldn't get past the multiwrite to the same block type deletion. The hardware simply won't allow it. Of course REAL hardware hackers, like stephen Wozniak, or the government can do it. I imagine that, even then, it would be difficult.

      hackers must know how to get around it but they can't unencrypt? tell me its true.
      If you encrypt data, and the first part of it, or potentially any part in the cipher block, gets wiped out, GOOD LUCK trying to decrypt it. AGAIN, someone MIGHT be able to guess at some data and get a small portion, but that is unlikely.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    I would advise the following.
    Stick the hard drive in the freezer in a ziploc bag for half an hr. fire up the drive. copy the drive to your main hard drive. take a hammer and smash it directly in the center of the drive go to garbage can drop inside go to amazon, tiger direct, ebay or whatever and get a new hard drive not esata rather external usb. sata runs very fast but requires a power source it sounds like your drive was overloaded also always use power surge protector bars with any computer or electronic device. it is possible your drive got messed up in manufacturing but I think it is more likely something happened while it was plugged in. if the data is sensitive don't take a chance destroy it and move on.

    disclaimer-Computer technician for over 6 yrs
    -WD
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    "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello everyone,

    I appreciate all of the advice - thank you. A few follow-up questions and comments:

    WD Mino and Steve (seasoned) - I appreciate the advice on destroying the drive. I have heard of the "freezer trick," though I also heard that that might only work if the damage is mechanical, not electrical, as this might be, indicated by the smoke. Certainly, it wouldn't hurt to try it, though.

    Is there any chance that plugging it into my computer could do damage to the computer? I have an older laptop (that runs hot and can't do any large file transfers in one sitting, so I don't know if it could handle all of the copying in one sitting without pausing or putting my computer in sleep mode) and a newer laptop that could handle a large file transfer in one sitting, but I'd certainly wouldn't want to damage my new laptop (or even my older laptop - it still is useful and has many files on it) by plugging this drive in.

    It didn't do anything to the side port of my older laptop when I plugged it in the last time (when it started smoking) - I plugged my flash drive into that same port and it worked fine, so the port is certainly okay and no damage was done to the laptop (I'm typing on it now).

    I just wondered if plugging it into a port could damage the port or even the laptop's motherboard or not and I just got lucky the last time?

    Additionally, I presume from your suggestion that I would need to take the hard drive directly out of the external case before I attempt to smash it with a hammer - is that correct? Looking at the Fantom HD, it looks like it has no screws, but I think there might be two under the "Warranty Void If This Seal Is Broken," especially when I put it under a light. Would unscrewing those two screws release the drive, as I don't see any other screws anywhere in this enclosure, or would more have to be done? Again, outside of those two screws on the top part of the one side of the drive, I don't see any other screws to undo. Will that release the back where the connections are? That's about the only way I can see where removing two screws would release the drive.

    One other related topic to what others have brought up regarding data protection and data recovery - after this incident with the hard drives, I want to protect my other hard drives to try to make sure I'm not in this situation again. I'm tempted to remove sensitive files from those HDs, yet it's considered to have back-up copies of important data, just in case something happens to your computer, so I'm not sure that would be a viable option, although maybe I would limit the amount of back-ups I have to one or two extra drives (I have 5 other Ex. HDs besides the burning one).

    Would using a software program like TrueCrypt work? I know that it is supposed to encrypt your files/folders with a password you set, and reportedly, only the person with the password could access the files/folders. Has anyone used this software program? Are there other software programs that offer similar or better features?

    Additionally, if I were to use TrueCrypt, I've read that you're supposed to set how much space to set aside for the TrueCrypt partition (I think) - would there be any reason not to set the whole drive to be in the TrueCrypt partition? For instance, if you have 1.81 TB on a 2TB HD, would it make any sense not to encrypt all 1.81 TB of the drive, or would there be a reason to not encrypt 1-10 GB of the drive - perhaps for testing purposes to see if the drive still functions without logging in with a password? Otherwise, I don't know why you wouldn't encrypt the whole drive.

    If I had done that - used TrueCrypt - would it have been safe to send the HD back to the company or not? I was just wondering in case this situation occurs again where I have a HD fail (though it might not be under warranty next time), but it's encrypted with a software like TrueCrypt? I'm not sure I'd send it back anyway even under this circumstance, but am just curious for my own knowledge. Can the TrueCrypt software protection be circumvented, and if so, how easily?

    Again, I'd appreciate any and all information and advice, and appreciate all of the information and advice provided so far - thank you.

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      Hello everyone,

      I appreciate all of the advice - thank you. A few follow-up questions and comments:

      WD Mino and Steve (seasoned) - I appreciate the advice on destroying the drive. I have heard of the "freezer trick," though I also heard that that might only work if the damage is mechanical, not electrical, as this might be, indicated by the smoke. Certainly, it wouldn't hurt to try it, though.
      Yeah, you're right.

      Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      Is there any chance that plugging it into my computer could do damage to the computer?
      There IS a chance, but I'm sure it is slight because you had it plugged in before.


      Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      Additionally, I presume from your suggestion that I would need to take the hard drive directly out of the external case before I attempt to smash it with a hammer - is that correct? Looking at the Fantom HD, it looks like it has no screws, but I think there might be two under the "Warranty Void If This Seal Is Broken," especially when I put it under a light. Would unscrewing those two screws release the drive, as I don't see any other screws anywhere in this enclosure, or would more have to be done? Again, outside of those two screws on the top part of the one side of the drive, I don't see any other screws to undo. Will that release the back where the connections are? That's about the only way I can see where removing two screws would release the drive.
      I hadn't considered opening up the drive, but doing so would certainly give you some assurance, and make hurting it easier. Bend the head arms a little, and hurt at least some of the cylinders, and you are done! Heck, just bending the head arms a LITTLE would mean that they would have to mount the disks in a similar drive to read them. That would be VERY expensive to do properly(Disk manufacturers use CLEAN ROOMS that are cleaner than operating rooms in hospitals.), and doing it improperly is likely to cause a head crash.

      Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      One other related topic to what others have brought up regarding data protection and data recovery -

      Would using a software program like TrueCrypt work? I know that it is supposed to encrypt your files/folders with a password you set, and reportedly, only the person with the password could access the files/folders. Has anyone used this software program? Are there other software programs that offer similar or better features?

      Additionally, if I were to use TrueCrypt, I've read that you're supposed to set how much space to set aside for the TrueCrypt partition (I think) - would there be any reason not to set the whole drive to be in the TrueCrypt partition? For instance, if you have 1.81 TB on a 2TB HD, would it make any sense not to encrypt all 1.81 TB of the drive, or would there be a reason to not encrypt 1-10 GB of the drive - perhaps for testing purposes to see if the drive still functions without logging in with a password? Otherwise, I don't know why you wouldn't encrypt the whole drive.

      If I had done that - used TrueCrypt - would it have been safe to send the HD back to the company or not? I was just wondering in case this situation occurs again where I have a HD fail (though it might not be under warranty next time), but it's encrypted with a software like TrueCrypt? I'm not sure I'd send it back anyway even under this circumstance, but am just curious for my own knowledge. Can the TrueCrypt software protection be circumvented, and if so, how easily?
      It is rumored that even the highest level encryption has kind of a back door of sorts. Still, it would be difficult to decrypt. ALSO, most encryption does it in blocks, and can even be chained and have a key, so any defect in any of those will hurt the ability to decrypt.

      BTW The USB ports are compatible such that plugging one into another won't cause shorts, etc... The compatibility issue is that the newer standard devices may simply not be usable on the older standard ports. So a drive can be plugged in, appear to run, but not be usable. So port incompatibility did NOT hurt your drive.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Hi JC,

    The freezer trick will work for stuck plates drives failing etc. if you are worried about it damaging the computer computer components are extremely sensitive but usually to esd -electro static discharge.
    With the drive doing what it is friend you really have 2 options one is to take it to a computer store and have them recover the drive or try and do it yourself. it sounds to me like this has turned into a big issue but also the drive is new your laptop is old your drive is made for 2.0 and your computer is set up for 1.1 bus speeds so that also can cause an issue.
    I would advise this -take your laptop to the store. bring the drive with you. get them to test and see what is happening it is best to let a pro look at it I did not realize you were running an older with a newer therefor the best thing to do is let the pros handle it
    hth
    cheers
    -Will
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    "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Will,

    I appreciate the additional info.

    2 things:

    1. I'm not too worried about losing the data - as mentioned, I have other copies; I'm more concerned about someone else getting access to it, so if I lose the data (i.e. it's unrecoverable for anyone who gets a hold of the drive), I'll actually be relieved. I'll be out the money, but I'll have peace of mind, so I'm not that concerned about the data itself, more the fact of knowing that no else can get to it either.

    2. While I do have an older laptop, I know that it has USB 2.0 (it's from late 2005 - Pentium 4, 1GB RAM, Windows XP Home SP3), so I don't think that was the problem. My other 5 Ex. HDs all work with it (at USB 2.0 speeds, as did this drive before it burned up), including an exact same model as the one that is burning up, plus a Cavalry USB 2.0/eSATA Ex. HD that I purchased just a few prior months to the two Fantoms I ordered. (For the record, I have eSATA on my newer laptop, which is why I wanted eSATA, since it can transfer data much faster, and enables me to make quick backups using that computer's greater processor speed and eSATA connection).

    Therefore, I'm not sure if the computer store would be necessary - it's something I'd consider, but for my purposes, I'm more concerned about making sure that the data on the drive is unreadable for anyone who could get their hands on the drive. I figure that the drive itself is probably a lost cause, although perhaps not, which relates to my question below.

    Presuming I can remove the drive from the external case (I presume that removing those 2 screws I mentioned above would do this?), would it be possible to attach the hard drive itself to my computer with a USB to IDE (I think) adapter, and be able to read and delete data off of the drive that way? I've heard that you can do this with old hard drives - would this be possible?

    I've heard that you have to be very aware of which connections you plug into the computer and into the hard drive, since it sounds like both connections are very similar - you plug the wrong one into the wrong port, and you could blow the motherboard (this is what I've heard - not sure if this is true or not, but I suspect you'd do damage of some sort if you mix up the connections).

    I presume that if I can remove the HD (and it's functioning, of course), that I could also buy one of those Ex. HD cases (like they sell on Newegg), place it inside that case, and access the drive that way? Would that be an option or not?

    Again, I'd appreciate any information and advice you can provide - thank you.

    Please take care and have a great day!

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
      Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      Hello Will,

      I appreciate the additional info.

      2 things:

      1. I'm not too worried about losing the data - as mentioned, I have other copies; I'm more concerned about someone else getting access to it, so if I lose the data (i.e. it's unrecoverable for anyone who gets a hold of the drive), I'll actually be relieved. I'll be out the money, but I'll have peace of mind, so I'm not that concerned about the data itself, more the fact of knowing that no else can get to it either.

      2. While I do have an older laptop, I know that it has USB 2.0 (it's from late 2005 - Pentium 4, 1GB RAM, Windows XP Home SP3), so I don't think that was the problem. My other 5 Ex. HDs all work with it (at USB 2.0 speeds, as did this drive before it burned up), including an exact same model as the one that is burning up, plus a Cavalry USB 2.0/eSATA Ex. HD that I purchased just a few prior months to the two Fantoms I ordered. (For the record, I have eSATA on my newer laptop, which is why I wanted eSATA, since it can transfer data much faster, and enables me to make quick backups using that computer's greater processor speed and eSATA connection).

      Therefore, I'm not sure if the computer store would be necessary - it's something I'd consider, but for my purposes, I'm more concerned about making sure that the data on the drive is unreadable for anyone who could get their hands on the drive. I figure that the drive itself is probably a lost cause, although perhaps not, which relates to my question below.

      Presuming I can remove the drive from the external case (I presume that removing those 2 screws I mentioned above would do this?), would it be possible to attach the hard drive itself to my computer with a USB to IDE (I think) adapter, and be able to read and delete data off of the drive that way? I've heard that you can do this with old hard drives - would this be possible?

      I've heard that you have to be very aware of which connections you plug into the computer and into the hard drive, since it sounds like both connections are very similar - you plug the wrong one into the wrong port, and you could blow the motherboard (this is what I've heard - not sure if this is true or not, but I suspect you'd do damage of some sort if you mix up the connections).

      I presume that if I can remove the HD (and it's functioning, of course), that I could also buy one of those Ex. HD cases (like they sell on Newegg), place it inside that case, and access the drive that way? Would that be an option or not?

      Again, I'd appreciate any information and advice you can provide - thank you.

      Please take care and have a great day!

      Joe Chengery III
      Hi JC,

      OH I C ok in that case yes you can swap out the casing and run the drive although if you have a converter for the drive than by all means plug er in and see how it goes I doubt it would still be smoking it may be ok in fact it is hard to give exact advice as I am not looking directly at the issue but yes this sort of thing can absolutely be done on the external case that should be the screws so remove those and grab the drive out hook it up to a usb attachment and try it out
      HTH
      -Will
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      "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello again,

    Never mind about the last question I asked about the Ex. HD case - that's what you suggested in your above post - sorry about repeating the question.

    Please respond though about the idea of using an USB to IDE adapter and whether that would work or not - thank you.

    Please take care and have a great day!

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Will,

    I appreciate the info. - thank you.

    A few more questions:

    1. You say "converter" - you mean the USB to IDE adapter?

    2. You mentioned about running the drive and implied doing it without the adapter - how would I go about running the drive without the adapter?

    3. How does running the drive via the adapter work? I've never done it before - doesn't the drive need to be turned "on" like it is in the external casing, or will my computer recognize it as soon as I plug it in?

    4. Related to #3, do I need to change a setting in the BIOS in order for the drive via the USB to IDE adapter to be recognized by the computer or not? (I don't plan on booting up from this drive, so I would think that nothing needs to be changed in the BIOS, but want to be sure).

    5. I don't currently have a USB to IDE adapter, but have seen them online, so I could get one. Are there different USB to IDE adapters (i.e. is there a better USB to IDE adapter that stands out), or would any one like that do?

    6. Related to #5, doesn't a USB to IDE adapter allow you to use an internal drive that you find at retailers (like Newegg) as an external drive to store data, etc., just without the external case (which is why the internal drives are cheaper than the external drives)? If I wanted to start using internal drives for storage purposes, could I get any internal drive (even SSDs) or do they have to be of a certain configuration (SATA, etc.) in order for my computer to recognize and use them?

    7. Are the connections on a USB to IDE adapter easy to differentiate? I certainly don't want to make a mistake and blow out my laptop's motherboard by accident, as mentioned above.

    8. Regarding the "freezer trick," two questions:

    a. If I did try that with the drive still in the external case, would I attempt to plug it into my computer immediately after I take it out of the freezer or would I let it "thaw" a bit before plugging it in and turning it on?

    b. Can you use the "freezer trick" for the drive that is taken out of its external casing (and put into a zipped freezer bag) or is that trick only for drives that are still in the external casing?

    Again, I appreciate all of the information and advice you and everyone else has provided - thank you. :-)

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Steve,

    I appreciate the info. - thank you. It's good to know that if I want to destroy the drive that I have a viable option of opening it up and bashing it directly, since it probably would take much more effort to break through the external case (which looks pretty solid).

    I also appreciate the info. on TrueCrypt - I always wondered if there was a way to circumvent the security, but it sounds like it would not be easy, plus the fact that it would add a greater level of security is probably what I will do with my other drives to hopefully ensure that this doesn't happen again.

    Again, appreciate the info. - thanks!

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Joe Chengery III
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    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    OK, I was talking about GENERAL decryption. I just looked at truecrypt. It says it uses AES, which IS pretty secure. They state that it IS secure, and that they won't even TRY to help to break it, because they consider it a lost cause.

    BTW Around 2005-2006, I wanted to encrypt something VERY well, did a lot of research, etc... The standard I ended up choosing? AES!

    BTW concerning your other questions?

    You couldn't run an IDE drive externally without an adapter.
    USUALLY the adapter has a switch to turn on the drive, or it is always on.
    For a USB drive, you DON'T need to change the BIOS.
    Yeah, it uses internal drives as external, and it generally supports only ONE type of drive. So IDE, SATA, etc... are DIFFERENT.
    The connectors are TOTALLY different. An IDE connector is FAR larger in every respect than any USB connector. They aren't the same type or size, and look NOTHING alike.


    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Hi JC,
    In order to switch the drive out you need an external hard drive enclosure this has the adapter already attached for the usb port. the external casing needs to be for your drive so if it is an ide drive you need to have an ide enclosure to usb output if it is sata then you need that kind with the enclosures all you do is slide the drive in until it is connected securely you then drop the drive in that screw the sides of it together plug it in and it should recognize then you can either do a low level format-write the drive to 0 or you can copy etc it should give you the ability to access the drive through usb instead of eSata
    Cheers
    -Will
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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Steve and Will,

    Thanks again for the addl. info. - greatly appreciated!

    Steve - Thanks for mentioning about the AES - I had forgotten about that level of security being used by TrueCrypt. I know that my router (Linksys E1000) uses AES (WPA2-AES) as its security settings for its firewall and access points, and I know from research that AES is currently the highest level of security (higher than even WPA2-PSK), so that would make me feel much safer regarding my data in the event if/when another Ex. HD expires with data on it.

    Will - you mention about the external hard drive enclosure; would I still need that if the following item can be used (not sure if it can or not - please let me know - thank you):

    USB 2.0 to SATA IDE Cable Power Adapter for Hard Drive - eBay (item 310285976564 end time Jan-07-11 19:22:05 PST)
    OR
    USB 2.0 to SATA + IDE Cable Adapter - WorldStart.com

    I think they're the same item, outside of WorldStart providing the Drivers on CD, while the eBay seller hi-pc allows you to download it from the link provided on his eBay BIN page (and the fact that WorldStart charges considerably more for what appears to be the same item, outside of supplying the CD with the drivers on it to you instead of you having to download an .rar file).

    The question is, will that work to allow me to transfer and/or delete and overwrite the data on the drive without an Ex. HD enclosure? What about with an Ex. HD enclosure? Or will it work at all?

    Again, I appreciate all of the information and advice - thank you. I'm learning much about computer circuitry and data transfer! :-)

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Joe Chengery III
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    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Hi JC,

    The best thing to do is to have an enclosure those adapters leave your drive "open" computer circuitry is succeptable to damage through ESD Dust etc so it is best to have it enclosed I bought an external enclosure for 4-5 bucks off ebay. with driver cd and corresponding cable
    cheers
    -Will
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    "As a man thinks in his heart so is he-Proverbs 23:7"

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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Will,

    I appreciate the info. - thank you.

    What keyword(s) did you use to find these on eBay? I've tried such keyword phrases as External Hard Drive Enclosure and combined that with USB to IDE, but have only found some options, most of which are between $10-$30.

    Additionally, those options seem to only support up to 500GB Hard Drives. If I put my 2TB (1.81 TB actual) HD in it, will it not recognize the drive, will it still recognize it, but not bring up my folder (which only has about 15 GB or so on it), will it allow me to access the file since the folder with all of my files has only around 15GB or so on it, will it cause it to blow up, or something else?

    Do they make such enclosures with all of the necessary equipment, drivers, tools, etc. for larger HDs, such as 2 TB, or not?

    Again, I appreciate all of the info. and advice - thank you.

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      Hello Will,

      I appreciate the info. - thank you.

      What keyword(s) did you use to find these on eBay? I've tried such keyword phrases as External Hard Drive Enclosure and combined that with USB to IDE, but have only found some options, most of which are between $10-$30.

      Additionally, those options seem to only support up to 500GB Hard Drives. If I put my 2TB (1.81 TB actual) HD in it, will it not recognize the drive, will it still recognize it, but not bring up my folder (which only has about 15 GB or so on it), will it allow me to access the file since the folder with all of my files has only around 15GB or so on it, will it cause it to blow up, or something else?

      Do they make such enclosures with all of the necessary equipment, drivers, tools, etc. for larger HDs, such as 2 TB, or not?

      Again, I appreciate all of the info. and advice - thank you.

      Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

      Joe Chengery III
      When M/S first setup things, in its infinite wisdom, they decided 32MB was as much as you needed. They ALSO had NO standard mapping of the physical drive. So there are a LOT of standards. If THAT is why the 500GB only supports 500GB, only PART of the drive will be mapped, and will likely be mapped WRONG. If it is mapped wrong, it will appear empty, have garbage, or information will be scrambled. It WON'T damage the drive though, as long as you don't write to it.

      You DO want to make sure it can support the size of your drive. It IS, of course, possible that the 500GB is simply all they certified, or they didn't foresee larger drives. I don't think they saw the error of their ways until IDE. IDE was the 3rd created that had such problems. The earlier ones were created in the 70s or earlier, and 30MB was then considered to be VERY large.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Maybe something like this guy has I assume the interface of the actual hard drive drive is sata External 3.5" USB 2.0 SATA Hard Drive Case Enclosure on eBay.ca (item 280485604797 end time 22-Jan-11 12:44:12 EST)

    Oh I should have mentioned I don't think it matters how big the drive is with one of these you just plug it in and let er go.

    Let me know if that helps
    cheers
    -Will
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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Will and Steve,

    Again, thanks for the info. - greatly appreciated!

    Will - I take it that I should be getting a SATA to USB hard drive enclosure, not an IDE to USB hard drive enclosure - is that correct?

    I'll keep that in mind - that particular auction is on Canada's site, of which I'm not a member, though I guess I could sign up. The bigger concern though is that it is being shipped from Hong Kong, so that will likely mean tariffs and fees (don't know what they are, but I'm sure there are some that will jack up the price).

    The auction does give me a good idea of what to look for on the US site - thank you.

    Steve - if the drive is mapped wrong, could I still access the drive and delete and overwrite the data that is already on it, or would that not be possible with an enclosure that doesn't map the drive correctly?

    Again, I appreciate the information - thank you.

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by jchengery View Post

      Hello Will and Steve,

      Again, thanks for the info. - greatly appreciated!

      Will - I take it that I should be getting a SATA to USB hard drive enclosure, not an IDE to USB hard drive enclosure - is that correct?

      I'll keep that in mind - that particular auction is on Canada's site, of which I'm not a member, though I guess I could sign up. The bigger concern though is that it is being shipped from Hong Kong, so that will likely mean tariffs and fees (don't know what they are, but I'm sure there are some that will jack up the price).

      The auction does give me a good idea of what to look for on the US site - thank you.

      Steve - if the drive is mapped wrong, could I still access the drive and delete and overwrite the data that is already on it, or would that not be possible with an enclosure that doesn't map the drive correctly?

      Again, I appreciate the information - thank you.

      Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

      Joe Chengery III

      If the drive were mapped wrong, YEAH, you could "format" it again, and write over it. All parts written would be updated, so the old data would require HARDWARE tricks to access. Of course, if only PART of the drive were accessible, then the OTHER parts would still have data. It would likely be harder to make sense of though. And store bought recovery programs would probably fail to see it. A store bought recovery program would generally go after the directory, which STILL has a usable entry, and then the data associated with it, that could STILL be there.

      Of course, a person that knows C or some similar language COULD easily get the blocks, that WEREN'T over written. Each would contain 512 bytes, and possibly more, of data that they could make sense of. If they see a pattern, a program could recover much of the files. If they DON'T see a pattern, but are persistant, they could do it in a more manual fashion.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Steve,

    Thanks again for the info. - greatly appreciated! It's amazing how intricate hard drives are and what steps are necessary to take to make sure (as best as possible - don't know if you can ever be 100% sure) that your hard drives are secure and that no one can get the data off of them.

    Looking up some threads on sites such as slickdeals.net, people have reported that the drives inside these Fantom Drive External Cases, such as mine, are SATA drives, so I'd presume I would need a USB to SATA External Case and/or USB to SATA adaptor (without the case), correct, in order to access it (or attempt to access it if it is the HD that failed)?

    I didn't think to look and see which brand of HD it was before the smoke started; I plan on doing that with my other one. Of course, if I open up the external case, I guess I'll find out which brand of HD I have, won't I? :-)

    Again, I appreciate the info. - thanks!

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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  • Profile picture of the author jchengery
    Hello Steve and Will,

    I was wondering a few more things:

    1. Will this external enclosure work?

    Newegg.com - Rosewill R2-JBOD Aluminum 3.5" USB 2.0 DUAL-BAY External Enclosure

    I just noticed it on Newegg and it gets good reviews, though perhaps there are cheaper options and that is too elaborate for my needs?

    2. I know you mentioned about eSATA being "risky" because of its speed; I was just curious - I've seen "SATA to eSATA" cables online - would that work with this drive and plugging it into my eSATA port or not? Could it blow out the port? What about an eSATA hard drive enclosure (it they make such enclosures) - could it lead to the hard drive causing the port to blow out?

    3. Speaking of blowing out ports, since I don't know for sure whether the drive or the enclosure is causing the smoking, I was thinking, I have a USB 2.0 hub that is powered by an adapter. Could I plug the drive (once removed from the case via the right cable - not sure if that's SATA to USB cable adapter?) into a port on the hub and just see if the drive powers up or if it smokes - would that work?

    That way, if the drive is faulty, and perhaps causes a port to blow, it would only damage the port on the hub (or possibly the whole hub?) rather than blowing a port on my computer. Would that be a good idea or precaution?

    Again, I appreciate all of the advice and information - thank you.

    Please take care, keep up the great work, and have a good day!

    Joe Chengery III
    Signature

    My free ebook on pancreatic cancer: http://ow.ly/nPVhm Let's help my friend Courtney Reagan strike out cancer!

    Are you WORRIED about what wheat is doing to your waistline and your health? You SHOULD be! http://ow.ly/jSIY9 Internet marketer, copyeditor, copywriter, content creator, author - http://www.joechengery.com

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