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Encrypted files, Reformatted Windows...Uh Oh

by Roaddog
14 replies
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I had some files encrypted and didn't set the font to green. (Windows xp)

Soo I had to reformat a couple of months ago and forgot. The files are still there, just can't open them. Some I had backups, but not some of my boys old pictures. Yea I know... bad dog.

From what I understand, they are encrypted by a random process from the registry of that particular build. It sounds pretty hard to get them back to unencrypted.. but hopefully not impossible.

I have tried some recovery software, that supposedly can pull the encryption from the same hard drive even though reformatted, but no luck.

I guess I could try and send them to Microsoft...and be 154 by the time I get them back, if they can do anything, but I thought I would ask some of the resident coding gurus.



Any help would be appreciated


Jim
  • Profile picture of the author Jonas B
    i think you better ask it at an computer related forum..
    but as long you know how they got encrypted, they can be decrypted.. now you say its encrypted by a random process makes it difficult to know how they are encrypted

    good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I wish I could help you, Jim, but it's just not something I know anything about. If you need help decrypting the newspaper's Cryptoquip or Cryptoquote puzzle I'm pretty good at those.

    You might try contacting Elizabeth Boston from Ask The Computer Lady.

    She's who I go to for computer advice. She's good and good people. Tell her I sent you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Thanks Dennis,

      I will do that.

      I let this go for a while after trying a few things. Now I would like to get back to it and get this resolved if I can.

      I will tell her you sent me.
      You don't owe her any money, right?


      Thanks

      Jim
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

        Thanks Dennis,

        I will do that.

        I let this go for a while after trying a few things. Now I would like to get back to it and get this resolved if I can.

        I will tell her you sent me.
        You don't owe her any money, right?


        Thanks

        Jim
        Rats, you catch on fast.

        I don't know if she knows about encryption, but it can't hurt to ask.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, the files have to be movable and copyable, or they will be NOT really GOOD! It COULD be randomly based on the registry ONLY if it stores info someplace, like the registry, because the registry can change. Of course, it COULD use the GUID, which I believe is stored in the registry. The GUID(Global Unique IDentifier) is unique, retrievable, commonly used for such things, and is STABLE!

    Of course all this simply says there is HOPE if you have the old registry, etc... Good luck trying to do it without the formula. And Microsoft is in a bad position. MAYBE you are registered, and it provided the GUID or something else that can be used to tie it to the files. If that ISN'T the case, decrypting the files would be tantamount to their providing NO encryption.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Steve,

      They are there but not movable, I had tried that because at Microsoft they said if you move them from the NTFS, they will decrypt...problem is I can't move them.

      The key for the (EFS) is randomly generated by that registry which I encrypted them and thats gone. They are sitting on an external HD.

      You know I just thought of something...if I leave them on the external hard drive and disconnect the external HD, then reformat (the computer) again and use FAT instead of NTFS and connect the external HD and try and open I wonder if that would work.


      This really twists my twinkie, I didn't realize those pictures were in the folder that I encrypted...I really don't care about anything but those pictures.


      Wish I had my boys life, he just found out his friends Dad owns a Soft Serve ice cream truck.

      I told him I'll kick him in his rear if EVER complains about life again


      You think I should try FAT?


      Jim
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

        Steve,

        They are there but not movable, I had tried that because at Microsoft they said if you move them from the NTFS, they will decrypt...problem is I can't move them.

        The key for the (EFS) is randomly generated by that registry which I encrypted them and thats gone. They are sitting on an external HD.

        You know I just thought of something...if I leave them on the external hard drive and disconnect the external HD, then reformat (the computer) again and use FAT instead of NTFS and connect the external HD and try and open I wonder if that would work.


        This really twists my twinkie, I didn't realize those pictures were in the folder that I encrypted...I really don't care about anything but those pictures.


        Wish I had my boys life, he just found out his friends Dad owns a Soft Serve ice cream truck.

        I told him I'll kick him in his rear if EVER complains about life again


        You think I should try FAT?


        Jim
        I should have been clearer. By move or copy, I meant within the device. I don't imagine encrypted FILES would decrypt if they were moved/copied at all. Now files on an encrypted DEVICE would decrypt once you move them from the device, in THAT running instance where you can read the source file automatically.

        Reformatting the drive WON'T help! Frankly, if the files are encrypted, I DON'T see how changing the device's format can help. If it were that easy, it would be near WORTHLESS!

        As for life? YEAH, some things are FAR easier now! If I were born say 10 years later, I would probably be RICH by now. If I were born 30 years later, I would be rich, and stronger. Heck, I'd probably OWN, literally, my own gym. I would have NEVER made the like 7 dumbest mistakes I have made since 1980, and wouldn't have spent that time trying to get a home loan or merchant account. I ALSO would STILL LOVE programming!

        The ONLY negatives I could see is that I wouldn't know how much better OTHER things were earlier, wouldn't be as well versed in electronics or computers, etc...

        So both times have their good side. If I were born 10 years earlier(BTW that means I would have been into computers and commercially viable BEFORE M/S even STARTED), there probably wouldn't be a microsoft! There wouldn't have been an egghead software. I WOULD have put egghead out of business if I had a merchant account THIS TIME. SERIOUSLY! I offered MORE for LESS, BEFORE they did! HECK, I probably would have ended up offering IBM a UNIX derivative. A CP/M derivative would have been my SECOND choice. THAT is what Microsoft used. I probably would have offered apple the same O/S. The eventually DID base it on UNIX. And IBM used UNIX for their RS/6000. Of course we ALL know how Linux took off.

        BTW the 70s and 80s were the BEST time to get into the third party general software/hardware business. BEFORE the 70s there was really no market, not many suppliers, and really nobody to help you. In the 90s, it got a lot harder because somehow most ****BIG**** stores got special deals, etc... The iranians and chinese have special buying groups to help out their groups.

        But in the 70s and 80s a lot of stuff WAS marked up 100% or more. So I could EASILY mark it up 14% and make a profit. One item that some retailed for over $750, I got for $75 from the company, and sold for 100% profit at $150. Microsoft made a CHEAP COPY that ran at 50% of the speed and the I/O was bad and THEY charged about $150, for THEIRS!

        OH, and almost EVERYONE was helped out by the same company. It was easy to tell who used them because they haad a nice list of like the top 100 products and EVERYONE displayed it prominantly. It was a sales tool, but it had the distributors name.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          I should have been clearer. By move or copy, I meant within the device. I don't imagine encrypted FILES would decrypt if they were moved/copied at all. Now files on an encrypted DEVICE would decrypt once you move them from the device.

          Reformatting the drive WON'T help!

          Frankly, if the files are encrypted, I DON'T see how changing the devices format can help. If it were that easy, it would be near WORTHLESS!


          Steve

          I'm just repeating what I read at Microsoft

          and I quote... "If you copy or move a file to a computer or volume that does not use the NTFS file system, the file will be decrypted."



          Jim
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

            I'm just repeating what I read at Microsoft

            and I quote... "If you copy or move a file to a computer or volume that does not use the NTFS file system, the file will be decrypted."



            Jim
            I told you the SAME thing!

            If you copy or move a file from an ENCRYPTED (NTFS ALLOWS one type) filesystem (ON that running system) to a NON ENCRYPTED filesystem, it will be decrypted.

            You said effectively that that system does NOT exist anymore!

            Don't believe me? FINE, there is an EASY way to check it out! Copy it from the NTFS system to a thumb drive. It's the SAME THING.

            Frankly, I think you are just reading their statement in the wrong context. THEY mean encrypted on that system and using that running system to do the copy. YOU are reading it as being simply from data that used to be on that system.

            Oh well, if you ONLY reformatted the system, maybe it used the same GUID in the registry. But, regardless, a thumb drive would give you the same effect as another fat/fat32 drive. I even just checked my 16GB sandisk usb drive I just recently bought, and IT is FAT32.

            And FAT32 is really just a version of FAT that allows more space and stores it more efficiently. As far as just about any application made around the last decade or so, and versions of windows from 95, inclusive, is concerned, they are the same. of course, neither is NTFS.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              I told you the SAME thing!

              If you copy or move a file from an ENCRYPTED (NTFS ALLOWS one type) filesystem (ON that running system) to a NON ENCRYPTED filesystem, it will be decrypted.

              You said effectively that that system does NOT exist anymore!

              Don't believe me? FINE, there is an EASY way to check it out! Copy it from the NTFS system to a thumb drive. It's the SAME THING.

              Frankly, I think you are just reading their statement in the wrong context. THEY mean encrypted on that system and using that running system to do the copy. YOU are reading it as being simply from data that used to be on that system.

              Oh well, if you ONLY reformatted the system, maybe it used the same GUID in the registry. But, regardless, a thumb drive would give you the same effect as another fat/fat32 drive. I even just checked my 16GB sandisk usb drive I just recently bought, and IT is FAT32.

              And FAT32 is really just a version of FAT that allows more space and stores it more efficiently. As far as just about any application made around the last decade or so, and versions of windows from 95, inclusive, is concerned, they are the same. of course, neither is NTFS.

              Steve
              Steve ,

              Yea I tried moving them onto my thumb, which is FAT. But I can't move or copy them. SO I guess I am S.O.L... as far as that goes. If I can't move them off the external drive it does no good to redo the computer to FAT.

              Thanks for your help...

              This is one mistake I am going to regret for a while
              One of a kind pictures.


              Jim
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

                Steve ,

                Yea I tried moving them onto my thumb, which is FAT. But I can't move or copy them. SO I guess I am S.O.L... as far as that goes. If I can't move them off the external drive it does no good to redo the computer to FAT.

                Thanks for your help...

                This is one mistake I am going to regret for a while
                One of a kind pictures.


                Jim
                I know this doesn't help...But this is an "epidemic". People now take family pics with digital cameras and store them only on their PCs. Then, when they lose a hard drive, they lose all their pics.
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  I know this doesn't help...But this is an "epidemic". People now take family pics with digital cameras and store them only on their PCs. Then, when they lose a hard drive, they lose all their pics.
                  Yeah, I should have mentioned before that it IS a good idea to store them in different places. And IMAGE backups MIGHT only work on one drive, because of 2 reasons. ONE is whole system related events, like this, and the other is based on the drive. Although that second one SHOULD be history now, it HAS happened.

                  These days, you can get a nice LARGE USB FLASH drive, backup FILES to them and try reading them on another system, and you have the best of ALL worlds. PORTABLE, EASY to use/read, EASY verification, and a BACKUP! But don't RELY on just one copy if it is REALLY important.

                  In fact if it is REALLY REALLY important, like this could have been, keep at least one backup OFFSITE! HERE it could have been as simple as mailing, or even emailing to a relative.

                  Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, that is one reason why so many things I have are NOT encrypted, I have simple logins, and always test new unix passwords from another connection before logging out.
    I also never bothered to use encrypted devices. Linux has had encrypted file systems for a LONG time, but I never heard of anyone using them.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    Try submitting the question to Kim Komando's site. If she doesn't have an answer then there probably isn't one.

    Thomas
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