Is Paypal founder - Peter Thiel, trying to get rid of College? | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

13 years ago

More entrepreneurial encouragement is good.

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SparringMind 13 years ago

Originally Posted by eric w

More entrepreneurial encouragement is good.

True, but entrepreneurship is not for everyone. I would argue that college is a necessity for math and science related majors, but liberal arts majors need to rethink if they really need an expensive degree to pursue their passion.

I'm still pretty supportive of college for business as well, as business and entrepreneurial studies can be necessary for people who want to pursue offline ventures.
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MikeAmbrosio

13 years ago

Not everyone has the entrepreneurial mindset or skills either. How many people right here on just this forum spend tens of thousands and make a few hundred?

Same coin, opposite sides.

The problem seems to be the single mindedness when it comes to higher education. College is no more "right for everyone" as being an entrepreneur.

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Jeremy Banks

13 years ago

I felt I was brainwashed in highschool that I HAD to go to college or university, I think there are other options and kids should know about them!

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Sunfyre7896 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Jeremy Banks

I felt I was brainwashed in highschool that I HAD to go to college or university, I think there are other options and kids should know about them!

There are. You better invent something, secure a patent, hope no company rips it off and modifies it or just steals you idea, and then it must work and sell -or- you could open a business and be your own boss. Hopefully the business has a great concept and you aren't one of the 90% that fail in the first 2 years. There is a third option but it only applies to a few. You must have connections in a job. Knowing people is great if they're in something you might like to do and they are high enough to get you the job. Otherwise, you might think about college because most jobs that you look for on the internet such as careerbuilder or monster have a prerequisite of at least a 4 year degree of some sort. It's not all bunk, just expensive.
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BIG Mike

Banned 13 years ago

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LegitIncomes

13 years ago

If your career of choice requires it (Doctor, Lawyer, etc...) obviously college is required. Outside of those specialized fields, I think it gets a lot less important...and possibly not even necessary at all.

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seasoned

13 years ago

Originally Posted by LegitIncomes

If your career of choice requires it (Doctor, Lawyer, etc...) obviously college is required. Outside of those specialized fields, I think it gets a lot less important...and possibly not even necessary at all.

Earlier, you did NOT need to go to school to be a lawyer! In fact, most colleges DON'T prepare the average person. You have to pass the bar, study, and have cases.

Some doctors may not even require college. HECK, look at all the lying that supposed students, and "teachers" do! That SHOULD devalue the prestige!

The $1 Million number is disputed! And hellen keller got a REAL degree when she was blind and deaf? HOW? Were all the teachers skilled with brail or something? REMEMBER, the board, lectures, etc.... were OUT OF THE QUESTION! And what of people ..with "honorary" degrees?

As for bill gates, you could add stephen jobs, stephen wozniak, and many others, that are FAMOUS and RICH drop outs! YEAH, I KNOW, wozniak went back much later and got a degree. That was AFTER he was a billionare.

You can ALSO name plenty of graduates that are BROKE!

Steve

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MikeAmbrosio

13 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Earlier, you did NOT need to go to school to be a lawyer! In fact, most colleges DON'T prepare the average person. You have to pass the bar, study, and have cases.

Some doctors may not even require college. HECK, look at all the lying that supposed students, and "teachers" do! That SHOULD devalue the prestige!

The $1 Million number is disputed! And hellen keller got a REAL degree when she was blind and deaf? HOW? Were all the teachers skilled with brail or something? REMEMBER, the board, lectures, etc.... were OUT OF THE QUESTION! And what of people ..with "honorary" degrees?

As for bill gates, you could add stephen jobs, stephen wozniak, and many others, that are FAMOUS and RICH drop outs! YEAH, I KNOW, wozniak went back much later and got a degree. That was AFTER he was a billionare.

You can ALSO name plenty of graduates that are BROKE!

Steve

Steve,

Everyone knows there are exceptions to every rule. But you still (in this country) stand to do better overall if you have a degree and you work for a living.

Going back to my own work history, at the last company I worked at, the director of my department, who is around my age, made twice what I made even though I had much more "practical" experience. He had the opportunities because of the degree.

It's one reason I left it behind

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Rob Howard

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

He had the opportunities because of the degree.

Because he proved that he was able to:

1. Put up with 4 years of bullsh***ng.
2. Sit down, shut up, and do as he's told.
3. Not only put up with it, but pay for it.

Some of us are made of slightly different stuff.

And while his income, prestige, and rank in the company is controlled -- some of us drop outs are earning business wages - not employee ones. (Plus some of us are hiring people like him)

Rob

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MikeAmbrosio

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ccmusicman

Because he proved that he was able to:

1. Put up with 4 years of bullsh***ng.
2. Sit down, shut up, and do as he's told.
3. Not only put up with it, but pay for it.

Some of us are made of slightly different stuff.

And while his income, prestige, and rank in the company is controlled -- some of us drop outs are earning business wages - not employee ones. (Plus some of us are hiring people like him)

Rob

You bet. But as I said earlier - more the exception than the rule. :rolleyes:

Me - not hiring anyone like that. Not sure if I want to. I am happy doing what I do, making what I make and most importantly, spending more time with my family than those other guys.

Just this morning, my son and I played Mario Super Slugger before he went to school (kid beat me in the last inning with a walk-off 2 run homer). Before, I was out of the house before he woke up.

No complaints here

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Kurt

13 years ago

The average college graduate in the US makes $1 million dollars more over the course of their life than the average non-graduate.

Right now, college graduates in the US have half the unemployment rate as non-graduates.

Why aren't these FACTS considered in the discussion?

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MikeAmbrosio

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

The average college graduate in the US makes $1 million dollars more over the course of their life than the average non-graduate.

Right now, college graduates in the US have half the unemployment rate as non-graduates.

Why aren't these FACTS considered in the discussion?

This is an excellent point.

When my two oldest got to college age, this is one of the discussions we had about "WHY" college is a plus. Like it or not, the opportunities for jobs - especially higher paying ones - are much more than for those without.

When I worked in a manufacturing environment years ago as a maintenance and instrumentation tech, you could not even make supervisor without a 4 year degree.

I worked with a LOT of engineers in my former career and I can tell you that I ran circles around a good percentage of them. Being book smart only gets you so far... but without the piece of paper - too bad, so sad.

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garyv

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

When I worked in a manufacturing environment years ago as a maintenance and instrumentation tech, you could not even make supervisor without a 4 year degree.

I worked with a LOT of engineers in my former career and I can tell you that I ran circles around a good percentage of them. Being book smart only gets you so far... but without the piece of paper - too bad, so sad.

A lot of this has to do with the "rat-race" mindset as well. Those trapped in the maze trying to get to the cheese outside of the maze, never think about climbing over the walls.

I had a similar experience as you when I worked at Motorola. However I was the technician there, and there was an operator that worked on a particular machine there that knew way more than anyone else about this machine, even me as a technician. Motorola wouldn't promote him to a technician job, because he didn't have the "paper". However, he contacted the company that made the machinery - which was the German company Siemens - and he billed himself as an expert consultant on the machine. And he proved himself by being able to setup, run, and repair the machine for them in any location they sold it.

A few years later I was laid off from my Job at Motorola because they've moved most of their manufacturing to Mexico and China. However, he still works as a consultant for Siemens making about 5x what I was making.

It's all in how you present yourself. And not letting anyone limit your thinking or abilities.

I for one think there could be a much more efficient way of getting smart (not necessarily educated) people into smart positions.

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MikeAmbrosio

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

A lot of this has to do with the "rat-race" mindset as well. Those trapped in the maze trying to get to the cheese outside of the maze, never think about climbing over the walls.

I had a similar experience as you when I worked at Motorola. However I was the technician there, and there was an operator that worked on a particular machine there that knew way more than anyone else about this machine, even me as a technician. Motorola wouldn't promote him to a technician job, because he didn't have the "paper". However, he contacted the company that made the machinery - which was the German company Siemens - and he billed himself as an expert consultant on the machine. And he proved himself by being able to setup, run, and repair the machine for them in any location they sold it.

A few years later I was laid off from my Job at Motorola because they've moved most of their manufacturing to Mexico and China. However, he still works as a consultant for Siemens making about 5x what I was making.

It's all in how you present yourself. And not letting anyone limit your thinking or abilities.

I for one think there could be a much more efficient way of getting smart (not necessarily educated) people into smart positions.

Funny you say that Gary. I now contract my "expertise" back to this industry and even my old job for MUCH more money than I made as an employee. I actually GROSS more than most of the people I reported to who have a lot of college under their belts. It's still more after taxes, etc. but I limit those hours too as I have way too much to do elsewhere.

It's funny - just today the maintenance supervisor of the company I used to work for wants to contract me to write maintenance PMs for their equipment. These things are basic documents that probably take me a total of 2 hours each to write (on average). I sell them at $1500 per document. I used to get stuck writing these as part of my job description

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garyv

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

The average college graduate in the US makes $1 million dollars more over the course of their life than the average non-graduate.

Right now, college graduates in the US have half the unemployment rate as non-graduates.

Why aren't these FACTS considered in the discussion?

This is true, however the average of non-graduates also includes a large portion of people that are physically and mentally incapable of going to college in the first place. So those types of studies always have skewed numbers.

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Kurt

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

This is true, however the average of non-graduates also includes a large portion of people that are physically and mentally incapable of going to college in the first place. So those types of studies always have skewed numbers.

Give me the exact numbers..."Large" needs to be defined.

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garyv

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Give me the exact numbers..."Large" needs to be defined.

Disabilities affect 15-20% of every country's population. That's a rather large number, and could easily make up for most of that million dollar difference.

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Kurt

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Disabilities affect 15-20% of every country's population. That's a rather large number, and could easily make up for most of that million dollar difference.

How many of these disabilites affect the ability to go to college?

Hellen Keller was deaf and blind, yet graduated from college. And being in a wheelchair doesn't affect the ability to earn an education. As a matter of fact, I'd say a "large" percentage of physically disabled people NEED higher education, as they can't perfom physical work.

Plus, you again used the word "large" without quantifiying it. I want numbers, not opinions like "could easily make up for most of that million dollar difference". What are you basing this opinion on?

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garyv

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

How many of these disabilites affect the ability to go to college?

Hellen Keller was deaf and blind, yet graduated from college. And being in a wheelchair doesn't affect the ability to earn an education. As a matter of fact, I'd say a "large" percentage of physically disabled people NEED higher education, as they can't perfom physical work.

Plus, you again used the word "large" without quantifiying it. I want numbers, not opinions like "could easily make up for most of that million dollar difference". What are you basing this opinion on?

I did quantify that number Kurt - I said 15 -20% of a Country's population. That is the number I was referring to as large. And yes a lot of them can go to college. But many can not, because of physical and mental limitations. - But it doesn't matter, because it's still proof enough that those type of studies are skewed.

Yes graduates do make more money - but the gap's not as big as those "studies" would have you believe. And when you figure in the amount of money spent on college, and then the interest paid on those loans, that gap is actually much smaller.

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Kurt

13 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I did quantify that number Kurt - I said 15 -20% of a Country's population. That is the number I was referring to as large. And yes a lot of them can go to college. But many can not, because of physical and mental limitations. - But it doesn't matter, because it's still proof enough that those type of studies are skewed.

Yes graduates do make more money - but the gap's not as big as those "studies" would have you believe. And when you figure in the amount of money spent on college, and then the interest paid on those loans, that gap is actually much smaller.

Sorry Gary, you gave a number for "disabled", but not a number for how many people have a disability that affects their ability to get a college education. This is the stat that is relevant.

And "skewed" is a relative term...Just because the stats are "skewed" doesn't mean the opposite point of view is more accurate. Without any more facts it could be that "skewed" means a college graduate "only" makes $900,000 more, which is probably pretty close if we factor in disabilities.

I do believe that higher education could/should be reformed and that some classes really aren't needed for most degrees, so it's possible we could have 3 year degrees instead of 4, saving 25% of the cost of an education, which would increase the ROI of higher education.

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garyv 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Without any more facts it could be that "skewed" means a college graduate "only" makes $900,000 more, which is probably pretty close if we factor in disabilities.

You may be right with that number - but your "probably" is just as devoid of facts as anything else presented here.

I might also point out that when you gave out an "average" you didn't specify the sampling size or where those numbers came from either.

We can though agree on the fact that we think the education system in place now needs some major reforming. I like your idea about eliminating some unnecessary courses. I also agree that some careers need that firm regimented style of education - like most careers in the medical field.
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MikeAmbrosio

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I do believe that higher education could/should be reformed and that some classes really aren't needed for most degrees, so it's possible we could have 3 year degrees instead of 4, saving 25% of the cost of an education, which would increase the ROI of higher education.

Well now Kurt - less classes equals smaller profits for the colleges. Therefore they will need to increase tuition by 25% (or more) to make up for that

Anyway, the cost of college these days keep out a good number of people who would love to go but simply cannot afford it. Speaking for myself, I did not excel academically or in any sport to qualify for any scholarships. My parents divorced when I was young and my mother was a waitress. We didn't qualify for any type of low income help yet my parents could not afford to send any of us. Nor could they get any loans (we owned nothing, didn't make enough... whatever).

Perhaps there were programs to look in to but what did we know? The high school I went to was rated on the very low end of the state I lived in...

My remedy was to join the Navy. That was my college - and I had a ball

Would have been nice to have the college option though... maybe I'll go anyway - just because.

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Bradley J Anderson 13 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Disabilities affect 15-20% of every country's population. That's a rather large number, and could easily make up for most of that million dollar difference.

I think you severely limit disabled people. I'm considered disabled, myself, but yet I graduated from college with honors, led a project team for a Fortune 500 company for a number of years, and now operate my own (thriving) offline and online businesses.

If you're talking about people with something like major mental retardation issues, then they don't usually 'work', anyway, so I highly doubt that their $.33/hr or 'a penny per piece' jobs are included in those studies.

It's really easy to point to someone like Bill Gates and say, "See? He's rich and he never finished college!", but Bill Gates is the definite exception to the rule. And besides, had Bill Gates not gone to Harvard, things surely would not have panned out for him in the same way. But that's a different topic, altogether.

You can't look at one person here and there who are those exceptions, because most people will not be able to replicate their success. Instead, we have to use generalities and statistics.

Either way you look at it, though, even if the numbers are 'skewed', it still means that college graduates make a significantly more amount of money in a lifetime. Who cares if it's only $500,000 instead of $900,000?

Continuing my education was one of the best decisions I ever made in my life, I'm quite sure of that.

It's always interesting to me, as well, that the majority of people that say a college degree is bunk, never finished college.
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Fazal Mayar

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

The average college graduate in the US makes $1 million dollars more over the course of their life than the average non-graduate.

Right now, college graduates in the US have half the unemployment rate as non-graduates.

Why aren't these FACTS considered in the discussion?

You are right but even with a college degree, anything can happen. You can lose your job and the 1 million dollar thing is something that is consireded as peak. It means that you would need to work all those years....

but there is no question that a college degree will help you land a better job

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visimedia

13 years ago

a lot of drop out college student succeed, and a lot of graduated college student succeed. Also, tons of both drop out and graduated college student failed.

It depends on the people.

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Is Paypal founder - Peter Thiel, trying to get rid of College?

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