I'm Done Being Your Doormat

60 replies
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I've been a contributing member of this forum for over 2 years now and I
am done being a doormat for certain people at this forum.

If you insult me or accuse me of motives that are untrue and without
basis, I will defend myself and fight back.

That's it...no more.
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Whatever I have done, I apologize. I DON'T THINK I DID ANYTHING

    I just came in from the rain and I needed a doormat and now this shocking revelation?. JUST KIDDING

    What has happened, now, Mr. Sensitive?

    Come on, man, it's CHRISTMAS - JOLLY, HO HO HO, U Know?

    jinglebells jinglebells jingle all the WAY oh what fun it is to ride in a ONE HORSE OPEN SLEIGH. HAY! jinglebellsjinglebellsjinglealltheway

    HO HO HO, MERRY CHRISTMAS!

    Santa's checking his list and checking it twice
    Gonna find out if you've been NAUGHTY or nice,
    SantaClaus is coming to town.

    ANYBODY WHO IS BAD WILL GET COAL (gasp!)
    REMEMBER THAT.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Whatever I have done, I apologize. I DON'T THINK I DID ANYTHING

      I just came in from the rain and I needed a doormat and now this?. JUST KIDDING

      What has happened, now, Mr. Sensitive?

      Come on, man, it's CHRISTMAS - JOLLY, HO HO HO, U Know?

      jinglebells jinglebells jingle all the WAY oh what fun it is to ride in a ONE HORSE OPEN SLEIGH. HAY! jinglebellsjinglebellsjinglealltheway

      HO HO HO, MERRY CHRISTMAS!
      Patricia, it gets to the point where you finally have to say...enough.
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post


      What has happened, now, Mr. Sensitive?
      Looks like someone replied to one of his posts and it didn't begin with:
      "wow great post"
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        Looks like someone replied to one of his posts and it didn't begin with:
        "wow great post"
        Les, don't even start with me today. I'm not in the mood.
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Les, don't even start with me today. I'm not in the mood.
          Guess you got caught out again then.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Reimers
    “suffering an apparent attack of arrogance and ego.”

    Axl Rose, Guns and Roses
    Have a Merry Xmas
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  • Profile picture of the author Rick McCombs
    Well Steve, are you going to keep us in the dark or are you going
    to get it off your chest and do some ranting?

    You know it's best to let it all out and not let it eat away on you.
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    \"Person who say something cannot be done, should not interrupt person doing it.\"

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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Rick McCombs View Post

      Well Steve, are you going to keep us in the dark or are you going
      to get it off your chest and do some ranting?

      You know it's best to let it all out and not let it eat away on you.
      Rick, it's just the usual BS. I say something and somebody reads some deep
      dark ulterior motive in it and starts accusing me of things.

      Hey, it's one thing if I say something like, "I think xyz is a great promotional
      method" and somebody says, "I strongly disagree, I think it sucks."

      That's fine. But when I say something like, "I did this and this and as a result
      I achieved xyz results and I feel that if everybody did that they'd get
      better results" please don't come back at me with something stupid like...

      "Why do you have to reply to every thread? Not everything is about you."

      I mean, where the %#* does that even come from?

      That's the kind of crap I'm tired of...people just looking for any reason at
      all to rag on me. And it's the same people every day...2 years running.

      After a while you just have to say...enough.
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post



        That's the kind of crap I'm tired of...people just looking for any reason at
        all to rag on me. And it's the same people every day...2 years running.

        After a while you just have to say...enough.
        I think you're exagerating a bit there.

        Maybe it's time to think about why this might be happening.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          I think you're exagerating a bit there.

          Maybe it's time to think about why this might be happening.
          No Les, I'm not exaggerating. This has been an ongoing thing for 2 years.

          I'm tired of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author jimmymc
        Sticks and stones Steve...

        You and I are a lot alike and I want to complement you on your success. I'm following a path similar to yours...it's hard work, but I am determined. I read your posts and learn from them. I figure if you want to succeed follow someone that has a proven record laid out for all to see.

        Don't let the naysayers drag you down...you have done it and many of those who harass you have not. I have noticed here lately that you seem to be down or maybe defending yourself more than you should be...you have no reason to try and defend yourself. I follow you and I'm sure many others do also...they can't change the facts.

        I say to hell with the naysayers full speed ahead.

        Dare I say you are my idol, my pattern...keep on keeping on buddy...you are great!!!

        jimmymc
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    Steve -

    You're an excellent contributor to this forum and you've helped countless people with your informative posts. You have a good name around here and you're very much appreciated... Just look at how many times you've been thanked for crying out loud.

    It sounds like you're having a bad day. Don't let it get to ya.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Steven -

      I noticed a post you made today where you replied to someone and it sounded as if you took their post personally - and they weren't talking about you. It was in the thread of the young mother who feels guilty about Christmas and you posted

      What is it? Is it my deodorant? Do I have BO?

      Maybe it's the haircut. I don't know. But it seems that the "looking for
      every diabolical possibility in every word that somebody says" bunch is
      in full swing today.

      Sheesh.

      Well, I'm going to try a washing with dog poop, get myself a mow hawk
      and then maybe tomorrow when I come back here, the Rat Patrol will
      have at least taken a day off for Christmas.

      Did I say sheesh?
      and when I read it, I thought "huh"?. He was talking about the person posting and you seemed to take it as being about you. You (and a couple others) were defending the OP against someone who saw the post as a scam. He was entitled to his opinion - we don't have to agree with him. To me, strongly defending someone you don't know is no different than bashing someone you don't know - either could be right....or wrong.

      No matter how long anyone has been here - or how many questions they answer or threads they start, there will be those who disagree or who simply don't like them. Doesn't matter and there's no upside to getting upset at a less than complimentary post.

      As a dealer in a casino I had to develop the skills to remain calm and non-defensive even when a (losing) customer became rude or obnoxious or made personally derogatory comments to me. If some of those people had known what I was thinking, they would probably have attacked me!

      I convinced myself that if they didn't like me it was because they didn't know me well enough to know what a nice person I am. If a man became drunk or rude - in my mind I was thinking "could be worse, could be married to him". For a loud woman it might be "many reasons not to marry HER son" or "those b**bs must have cost a fortune"....and I was able to keep smiling.

      What people say about you or to you is out of your control - how you respond to it is up to you. You can't argue with someone who won't argue back - and refusal to acknowledge or defend against "attacking" comments leaves those comments out there on their own swinging in the wind.

      kay
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      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Steven -

        I noticed a post you made today where you replied to someone and it sounded as if you took their post personally - and they weren't talking about you. It was in the thread of the young mother who feels guilty about Christmas and you posted

        and when I read it, I thought "huh"?. He was talking about the person posting and you seemed to take it as being about you. You (and a couple others) were defending the OP against someone who saw the post as a scam. He was entitled to his opinion - we don't have to agree with him. To me, strongly defending someone you don't know is no different than bashing someone you don't know - either could be right....or wrong.

        No matter how long anyone has been here - or how many questions they answer or threads they start, there will be those who disagree or who simply don't like them. Doesn't matter and there's no upside to getting upset at a less than complimentary post.

        As a dealer in a casino I had to develop the skills to remain calm and non-defensive even when a (losing) customer became rude or obnoxious or made personally derogatory comments to me. If some of those people had known what I was thinking, they would probably have attacked me!

        I convinced myself that if they didn't like me it was because they didn't know me well enough to know what a nice person I am. If a man became drunk or rude - in my mind I was thinking "could be worse, could be married to him". For a loud woman it might be "many reasons not to marry HER son" or "those b**bs must have cost a fortune"....and I was able to keep smiling.

        What people say about you or to you is out of your control - how you respond to it is up to you. You can't argue with someone who won't argue back - and refusal to acknowledge or defend against "attacking" comments leaves those comments out there on their own swinging in the wind.

        kay
        The trouble is Kay, is that Steve is so wrapped up in his own self importance, he's forgotten anyone else exists.

        I think he actually believes this is his private forum now
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          The trouble is Kay, is that Steve is so wrapped up in his own self importance, he's forgotten anyone else exists.

          I think he actually believes this is his private forum now
          Les...Merry Christmas.
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        • Profile picture of the author Eric Reimers
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          The trouble is Kay, is that Steve is so wrapped up in his own self importance, he's forgotten anyone else exists.

          I think he actually believes this is his private forum now
          Maybe this might shine a little light on the problem,


          “Ego has a voracious appetite, the more you feed it, the hungrier it gets.”

          Nathaniel Bronner Jr.
          Merry Xmas
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    It's Christmas Steven don't be in a bad mood. Just think of how fortunate you are to have been able to get your wife and kid nice stuff from your IM career. And don't take things so personal, like kay said. And Sista P can always sing to cheer people up. Hey Sista P sing me a song too.
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      What are you doing on here (the WF) so late, AG?
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      "Fate protects fools, little children, and ships called Enterprise." ~Commander Riker
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Hey girlie-q - what are you doing here?

      You should be baking cookies for Santa. Don't you know that?

      Yeh, he's-a-coming-across-the sky-now, he might be hovering over your hood as we speak, Yo.

      Santa knows, you know. His nose knows. Does he smell chocolate chip? Oatmeal? Wow! Gingerbread!

      Yes, Little HomeGirl, and don't think it doesn't influence what he leaves for you!

      You know the way to a mans heart is through his stomach and in Santa's case it is a big tubby stomach. So don't be stingy - double up on everything. Like Double Super Chocolate Chunks.

      You need to get your ducks in a row here, Ms. Valerie Sonora and stop wasting time here in the WF Asylum.

      Anyway not much of a song but thought I better pay some attention to you or you will tell Santa to leave me some coal.

      So you have a very very merry Christmas and I hope you wake up tomorrow and know you are so blessed!

      take care and have a fun time and FORGET ABOUT THE DIET FOR ONE DAY.

      hugs from rainy, cold, now windy, (it was just summer a few weeks ago) Northern California.

      TTYS


      Originally Posted by valerieSONORA View Post

      It's Christmas Steven don't be in a bad mood. Just think of how fortunate you are to have been able to get your wife and kid nice stuff from your IM career. And don't take things so personal, like kay said. And Sista P can always sing to cheer people up. Hey Sista P sing me a song too.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    What are YOU doing here so late Shay LOL
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    siggy taking a break...

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    You are going to "fight back" because someone has an impression of you that you don't like? Uh.....

    Perhaps you should repeat your recent post listing all of the articles you have written - but this time list your posts in the forum - read the last one first and keep going up the list until you discover exactly what it is that you are posting that is creating impressions that you don't want people to have.

    It will work for you much better than submitting help desk tickets....trust me on this one.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      You are going to "fight back" because someone has an impression of you that you don't like? Uh.....

      Perhaps you should repeat your recent post listing all of the articles you have written - but this time list your posts in the forum - read the last one first and keep going up the list until you discover exactly what it is that you are posting that is creating impressions that you don't want people to have.

      It will work for you much better than submitting help desk tickets....trust me on this one.
      Sal, Steve is actually a great contributor to this forum... not like some people I know (and I'm somewhat guilty of this myself) that just login to spout off useless, non-marketing garbage.

      This is a marketing forum, and Steve is a great piece of it. He sounds like he had a bad day. He'll get over it. Maybe you should too...
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Wright
        Actually, this particular forum is the Off Topic one.
        The others are or were Marketing ones.

        If anyone feels that they have been wronged or treated
        unfairly in any of the other Warrior foums, then they should
        either defend themselves or contact the appropriate mod
        for that forum. Far too many people in the more recent
        years of the Warrior Forum seem to spend to much energy
        re-inventing these forums to suit their own business agendas.

        The simplest and best rule is to respond in kind in any
        particular forum/topic context. The folks who annoy me
        are the ones who like to dish it out .... and then make up
        some politeness rule to hide behind and complain when
        others know different or know the truth.

        Oh for the time years ago, when there were many warriors
        like Bob Silber and others who shared and helped many others
        with no agendas whatsoever. There again, there are few of us
        from those days who still visit here.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          I still respect you as a marketer.
          But after this current thread and this http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...something.html
          that's about as far as it goes.
          Coming into the OT and bragging about saving us from ourselves and now whinning because people disagree with you, well that speaks volumes.
          I see this thread as a way for you to get members here to stroke your ego.
          Looking at most of the replies I see it worked for you.
          I got to agree with Leslie on this one.
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          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
          Getting old ain't for sissy's
          As you are I was, as I am you will be
          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            I still respect you as a marketer.
            But after this current thread and this http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...something.html
            that's about as far as it goes.
            Coming into the OT and bragging about saving us from ourselves and now whinning because people disagree with you, well that speaks volumes.
            I see this thread as a way for you to get members here to stroke your ego.
            Looking at most of the replies I see it worked for you.
            I got to agree with Leslie on this one.
            Thom, guess what. If you have a problem with that thread, I can't even
            blame you. You're right. It is a bit self indulgent. And if you read in it,
            I said if everybody justs reports it, it will be gone.

            But that thread is not what I'm talking about.

            I'm talking about threads in the general discussion where I'm trying to
            help people and provide them with info that I feel is relevant and Les is
            constantly getting on my case about each and every one of them for
            one reason or another.

            That's what I'm talking about and it's been going on for 2 years and I've
            had it.

            Please report that thread and have it deleted.

            I have no problem with that.

            ** EDIT **

            I have modified the thread and issued an apology.

            http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...se-delete.html

            I am a big enough person to admit when I do something wrong,
            but not everything I post here deserves the kind of harassment
            that I get from some people.

            That's all I am saying
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            • Profile picture of the author myob
              It is rare we see individuals like Steven who gives of himself so much to even the losers here. He is a success story that inspires. There are many members of this forum who are actually very much more successful than he, but they have given up being so open because of the epidemic of success aversion that seems to arouse attack rather than emulation. His sharing of his income to us and how he did it was a real example that it is possible for "anyone" to attain a high level of success in a short period of time.

              I have been attacked as well for revealing my income, which was only to show that it can be done. Little minds like this asked me "If you're making so much money why do you come here?". This forum is the gathering of great minds and the storehouse of unimaginable wealth of information that is a free gift to those who want it. Those of us who have reached a high level of success wish only to give back. It has been a significant part of my success over the years, and giving back is an example of what I have learned for continued success.

              The private forums are where the real eagles hang out because those discussions do not belong to wild turkeys. Steven is only trying to teach us to soar as the eagles, but many here prefer to peck at each other like wild turkeys and trample on kernals of wisdom.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              That's why I never mentioned any thread you started or replied to in the main forum. All that I have read there where nothing but good solid helpful information. Even most of the threads you started here in the OT have been a blast.
              But Steve these last two have sounded more like something my kids would write, not an adult.
              You can change them, delete them, or whatever you want, but that doesn't change what you wrote originally. I've started some pretty stupid threads myself and have replied to threads in not the kindest of ways. I've been blasted for it too. But so what I take the lumps and move on.
              But what I have never done and never will do is brag about saving the OT from itself or whine about a couple of people picking on me.
              Now I for one was getting sick of the politics being discussed here and even though the OT has gotten a little boring I'm still glad the sticky is back.
              All I'm saying Steve is some things you don't brag about and some things you don't whine about.
              I guess upon reflection I could say these two posts are as much an inspiration as your other posts, they show that even you have your flaws just like the rest of us.
              Keep on posting Steve, even if your threads aren't always well received.
              Just remember if you're not pissin someone off then you ain't doing your job
              Signature

              Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
              Getting old ain't for sissy's
              As you are I was, as I am you will be
              You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                Keep on posting Steve, even if your threads aren't always well received.
                Just remember if you're not pissin someone off then you ain't doing your job
                Well, I try not to piss people off. Believe it or not, I just try to do the right
                thing...Sometimes I guess I don't. But I never go out of my way to be an
                SOB or piss somebody off.

                Anyway, I'll take my lumps just like I always have.

                You don't survive this place for 2 years without taking some lumps.
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            • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              and provide them with info that I feel is relevant
              That statement just about sums it up.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

                That statement just about sums it up.
                Yes, it does Les...And you have a problem with that?

                Please, help me to understand how your mind works because I just don't get
                it at all.

                I have never cheated anyone here.

                I have provided countless threads of marketing strategy that's taken hours to
                put together.

                I have responded to almost every PM I get asking for help that I give
                freely...no strings attached.

                So what exactly is your problem with Les other than the fact that for
                whatever reason, you just hate my guts?

                PS - Thank you so much for doing everything you could possibly do to
                ruin my Christmas.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

        Sal, Steve is actually a great contributor to this forum... not like some people I know (and I'm somewhat guilty of this myself) that just login to spout off useless, non-marketing garbage.

        This is a marketing forum, and Steve is a great piece of it. He sounds like he had a bad day. He'll get over it. Maybe you should too...

        Sure he's having a bad day - don't we all? But, when people are not reacting as we would like - or as we expect, we sometimes have to examine ourselves. I get crap, too - but I can tell you exactly why. LOL. Not that I will change my attitude for anyone, but I at least know where the rift is.

        Now before you get all carpy on me - I agree that Steve is extremely talented. He has also been willing to share many secrets free of charge and has done much for many. But he is getting some flack - obviously enough to upset him. Why? It's not always everyone else's fault. Just because a person is a good person doesn't mean they can't come off as a bit other than they wanted or meant to sometimes, ya know. So I wasn't being flip - if people are responding poorly enough to upset him stomping his feet is not going to make it better. He needs to go back over his posts and examine what it is he said that might have roused some ire.

        Once he understands what the rift is he can decide whether he needs to change the way he communicates or if he just wants to blow off those that don't respond in the way he would like them to - kinda like I blow you off when you don't like where I stand.

        NOBODY is impervious to communication mistakes. NOBODY is impervious to hecklers.
        Part of marketing is deciding where your own values make it necessary to keep your stand despite what others think, and where you might have come on too strong or in the wrong fashion and need to change. When someone feels that they are impervious to dissent, they are walking on some very slippery turf. Even the OWNER of this forum has to occasionally make decisions about where to draw lines and where to give ground to keep the forum a great place for ALL users.

        Bad days are bad days - but if someone is having continual problems as Steve has suggested here, it might not just be everyone else's fault, Michael.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Steven,

    You're one of the best things that ever happened to this forum.

    If only two or three people don't like you in this forum, that means about 107,000 people do respect you and welcome your insightful posts.

    Merry Christmas!
    Dave
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    I

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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by Paul M View Post

    Steven, I respect you and Les, however I see absolutely no reason why you
    keep taking shots at each other. I don't know the history between you two -
    I don't want to know but if you cant play nice together then don't play at all IMO.


    The solution...


    Use your Ignore list! If you really cant get along.You and Les should put each
    other on your Ignore lists permanently, Ergo problem solved.


    As for everyone else - These are your words not mine..


    You cant please everyone...

    No matter what you post someone will always disagree or get offended
    and that's fine because everyone is entitled to there own opinion. For
    those who cause you problems simply add them to your ignore list or
    give them infractions. If abuse is serious or persistent, report it to Allen.



    Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

    Merry Chirstmas!

    -paul

    Paul, I don't know why I didn't think of that.

    Les, if you see this, don't bother responding to any of my posts in you
    attempts to get under my skin any longer. I am putting you on my ignore
    list permanently.

    You no longer exist for me.

    Thank you Paul. If they still had a buy a beer function, I'd get you a giant
    cold one.

    Problem solved...finally
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Les, if you see this, don't bother responding to any of my posts in you
      attempts to get under my skin any longer. I am putting you on my ignore
      list permanently.
      That's pretty handy then.
      I can point out your slip ups without you whining back.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    You know, I worked in IT project management for years revamping online support applications on numerous projects. One of the biggest complaints I would receive had to do with how rude a customer service rep was. It always struck me as odd because, more times than not, the people that were being called rude were actually some of the nicest people you could ever want to meet.

    The problem is a lot is lost in the words - email, forum posts, etc. The same insult in an email would probably be interpreted much differently in person, and would probably end with both parties laughing.

    It just seems a whole lot easier to take something the wrong way online. I can see how things could be taken different ways in this very post... who knows, in the physical world, perhaps Steve and Les would be best of friends. I've seen it happen.

    I admit, I'm also guilty of mis-reading the intension of an email or forum post on many occasions... If/when I get the opportunity to meet the person face to face, I usually feel like an ass because I realize how wrong I was.

    Just somthing to note...
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Hi Michael. Don't mind me I am real defensive. Actually hyper-vigilant at times. You wouldn't know because we usually agree (same side of the fence): we don't disagree now, but it was 'something you said' lol.

      Although I have had a decade in first-level-tech-support it was always at a corporate level (where people have to be professional/civil, if not polite). My first foray into the public on the retail level - the internet 'street' ,for the past 3 years being in online 'member support', OK Here it comes - the point:

      I am viciously attacked from off the wall almost daily. People are incredibly - it's more than rude - it is INSANE! MALEVOLENT! In need of medication. Just for small stuff - and 99% ending up to be their error or mistake/misunderstanding (or their email client).

      HENCE IF anyone EVER GETS SURLY CUSTOMER SUPPORT "how rude a customer service rep was" -

      I AM A MIRROR - IF THEY SPEAK TO ME RUDELY, I WILL ANSWER IN THE SAME TONE. (hehe or i may be reeling from a recent conflagration - adrenalin = shaking- ) so even more so. 'Do NOT put on any airs when you are down on Rumarque Avenue' LEST YOU KICK OVER A HORNET'S NEST.

      I am here to help them and I love to - but people need to watch their tone and don't come in with an accusation as to the cause of any of their problems -- JUST ASK FOR HELP AND I WILL DO MY BEST.

      yes i will take cheese with my whine. thanks.

      thanks stephen i borrowed some whine.

      Originally Posted by Michael Ellis View Post

      You know, I worked in IT project management for years revamping online support applications on numerous projects. One of the biggest complaints I would receive had to do with how rude a customer service rep was. It always struck me as odd because, more times than not, the people that were being called rude were actually some of the nicest people you could ever want to meet.

      The problem is a lot is lost in the words - email, forum posts, etc. The same insult in an email would probably be interpreted much differently in person, and would probably end with both parties laughing.

      It just seems a whole lot easier to take something the wrong way online. I can see how things could be taken different ways in this very post... who knows, in the physical world, perhaps Steve and Les would be best of friends. I've seen it happen.

      I admit, I'm also guilty of mis-reading the intension of an email or forum post on many occasions... If/when I get the opportunity to meet the person face to face, I usually feel like an ass because I realize how wrong I was.

      Just somthing to note...
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      • Profile picture of the author jimrpips
        Banned
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        • Profile picture of the author clint48
          so you might really want to try to overlook your sensitivity and hear what he is saying in case their is any logic or truth that you might benefit from. IMHO.
          Patrician, I think that is great advice. I remember a few people in the political discussions that I disagreed with, I thought they were just trying to start an argument.

          Well, one day one of those guys posted something that I checked on and I found out he had been right all along.

          That is why even though there were some heated discussions I think it was a good thing to be able to freely discuss things like that. In my case I was able to learn the truth about something that for years I though was true that was not true at all. Good post!

          Thanks
          Clint
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
        Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

        Hi Michael. Don't mind me I am real defensive. Actually hyper-vigilant at times. You wouldn't know because we usually agree (same side of the fence): we don't disagree now, but it was 'something you said' lol.

        Although I have had a decade in first-level-tech-support it was always at a corporate level (where people have to be professional/civil, if not polite). My first foray into the public on the retail level - the internet 'street' ,for the past 3 years being in online 'member support', OK Here it comes - the point:

        I am viciously attacked from off the wall almost daily. People are incredibly - it's more than rude - it is INSANE! MALEVOLENT! In need of medication. Just for small stuff - and 99% ending up to be their error or mistake/misunderstanding (or their email client).

        HENCE IF anyone EVER GETS SURLY CUSTOMER SUPPORT "how rude a customer service rep was" -

        I AM A MIRROR - IF THEY SPEAK TO ME RUDELY, I WILL ANSWER IN THE SAME TONE. (hehe or i may be reeling from a recent conflagration - adrenalin = shaking- ) so even more so. 'Do NOT put on any airs when you are down on Rumarque Avenue' LEST YOU KICK OVER A HORNET'S NEST.

        I am here to help them and I love to - but people need to watch their tone and don't come in with an accusation as to the cause of any of their problems -- JUST ASK FOR HELP AND I WILL DO MY BEST.

        yes i will take cheese with my whine. thanks.

        thanks stephen i borrowed some whine.

        Hi Patrician,

        I can certainly relate to you. I've had a long IT career and customer support (1st, 2nd and 3rd level) for applications in very large companies (Fortune 20) has been a part of it.

        Fortunately, the 3rd level support didn't involve the userbase, but you'd be surprised how fast the 1st/2nd level support could turn into jerks when working with the 3rd level support engineers, which probably due to all the pressure from the customer.

        People just seem to take on a different personality in email and even on the phone. That's why I always requested face-to-face meetings to resolve the hot escalating issues, but that's not always possible, of course. Sometimes there's no chance of ever seeing the person, and I think that really fuels the level of rudeness.

        People tend to think the tech supporter is talking over their head, so they get nasty. But there's also a lot of thinking along the lines of "I had a bad experience with people like this in the past, so I think they're all <insert a nasty word here>".

        Heck, every time I call the cable company I find that I'm much more rude than I should be, and that's because I've spent years with them being the "only show in town" and treating me like dirt because they knew I couldn't go anywhere else.

        Now I have several choices for subscription TV in my area... and I suppose I'm ready to release my built up furry on the poor customer service guy/gal that probably had nothing to do with the company back when I had my issues. I know I'm wrong, and when the conversation is done and they're as nice as possible to me, I tend to feel like an ass.

        I don't know if all this makes any sense...LOL... but yes, I certainly think people become much more rude in non-physical communication... it's much easier to for them to escalate the issues and act like a demanding jerk without anyone having to see their face.
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        • Profile picture of the author kumar
          Off topic or not, isn't it still a public forum? If someone has a problem with another person and has to write/declare it, isn't the best way to pen it down in one's personal diary or blog?

          Hope everyone had a blast yesterday!
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          Life is not a sprint, its a marathon. A bad start does not really matter too much

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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Ok, Christmas is over, pretty much.

    This thread is nothing but bashing and self pity, and needs to be deleted.

    Jimminy Freakin' Christmas.

    Dave
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    stephen. i hope you will forgive me for making an honest observation and i am completely neutral on the subject (even though you beat me out for post count without blinking, you motor mouth):

    sometimes it is hard to be a 'star' ('it's lonely at the top) - and it is not because people are always jealous (although often times they are) - but actually some people want to share so much that they try too hard and some may see it as being a 'show off' or 'energy rip off'.

    as well most of us have control issues. we can control by being a fascist pig or we can control by being nice. either way people don't like to feel controlled. (one of the few benefits of getting 'older' - I am so relieved I don't have to control everything) {G-d is in control)

    Alot of times when people assume a leadership position it will be seen as manipulative and self-seeking.

    NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU AT ALL BUT I WATCH BEHAVIORS ETC A LOT AND I THINK I AM RIGHT ABOUT HOW PEOPLE MIGHT SEE THINGS. You don't need to agree or disagree.

    IT IS JUST AN OBSERVATION ON
    lgibbon: "Maybe it's time to think about why this might be happening.
    Les is a right on guy i have loosely worked with for a few years. We have even done battle with each other, and also together (mods vs the jungle) - I find him really easy to get along with even in that environment - so you might really want to try to overlook your sensitivity and hear what he is saying in case their is any logic or truth that you might benefit from. IMHO.

    ...just sayin'
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      stephen. i hope you will forgive me for making an honest observation and i am completely neutral on the subject (even though you beat me out for post count without blinking, you motor mouth):

      sometimes it is hard to be a 'star' ('it's lonely at the top) - and it is not because people are always jealous (although often times they are) - but actually some people want to share so much that they try too hard and some may see it as being a 'show off' or 'energy rip off'.

      as well most of us have control issues. we can control by being a fascist pig or we can control by being nice. either way people don't like to feel controlled. (one of the few benefits of getting 'older' - I am so relieved I don't have to control everything) {G-d is in control)

      Alot of times when people assume a leadership position it will be seen as manipulative and self-seeking.

      NOT SAYING THIS IS YOU AT ALL BUT I WATCH BEHAVIORS ETC A LOT AND I THINK I AM RIGHT ABOUT HOW PEOPLE MIGHT SEE THINGS. You don't need to agree or disagree.

      IT IS JUST AN OBSERVATION ON

      Les is a right on guy i have loosely worked with for a few years. We have even done battle with each other, and also together (mods vs the jungle) - I find him really easy to get along with even in that environment - so you might really want to try to overlook your sensitivity and hear what he is saying in case their is any logic or truth that you might benefit from. IMHO.

      ...just sayin'

      Patricia, we've known each other for a while now and whether you know
      it or not, I have the utmost respect for you.

      I have no illusions about the fact, yes fact, that I can come off as a
      "know it all" at times. It comes from having a lot of confidence in your
      abilities to help others. I will make no apologies for that as that has been
      and always will be my reasons for being here...that and to build my
      reputation as a successful marketer that people can learn from.

      This is a marketing forum, so I make no apologies for that either. So I
      realize with that will come the slings and arrows.

      A while back I asked about how to promote a book on gambling that I
      was thinking of writing.

      I was brutally told under no uncertain terms by many members here that
      my idea was bad and that they would lose a lot of respect for me if I
      went ahead with it.

      I took this criticism to heart (it was one of the most vicious threads I
      was ever involved in as it cost me a few friends) and ultimately gave up
      the idea.

      But when one person continually finds fault with every word that comes
      out of your mouth, I find it hard to believe that the problem is with me,
      especially when it's ONE person.

      He claims there are others. Fine, I'd like to hear them.

      Regardless, I realized something today when I went to my inlaws for
      Christmas.

      My father in law recently had a stroke and shingles all at the same time.
      Right now, he is barely able to walk and trying to regain the use of his
      right arm.

      Suddenly, a member of this forum thinking I'm a pompous ass just wasn't
      that important anymore.

      I have chosen to ignore Les's remarks, literally, thanks to Paul's suggestion
      to put him on my ignore list. He is the only member of this forum who is
      on that list, even though I have had disagreements with others here.

      See, I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong. When I screw up, I'll come
      here and publicly apologize for doing it. I've done it many times. I'm not
      perfect. I never will be. And there will always be people who hate me to
      go along with those who like me.

      It's the constant harassment for every word that comes out of my mouth,
      going on for 2 years now, that I finally just couldn't take anymore and
      that's why I snapped.

      So okay, I'm human. I let it get to me. I make no apologies for that either.

      After all, 2 years is a long time to have to listen to it.

      But it's all over now. I've finally come to terms with this situation that
      will never change and thus I'll never see another line of text coming from
      this person's keyboard.

      I think it's best for everybody that it stays that way.

      To the rest of you, I'm sorry that you had to see that I'm human. Yeah,
      I get mad when people constantly harass me.

      It won't happen again....because I won't let it.

      I guess this is my way of asking for forgiveness for making this problem
      public. I should have handled it privately. I didn't. I can't go back.

      Anyway, that's all I have.

      Thanks for listening.

      I'm now going to go back to reading Paul Myers latest book.
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      • Profile picture of the author avandrunen
        Hey Steven,

        I'm gonna stay right outta the whole thing here, I'm new to the forum and IM and don't want to piss anyone off...yet.

        You made a comment in you last post in regards to your father in law...above all else your family memebers are the most important people in your life.

        Your family are the people who's opinions should matter the most to you..as long as your wife has stoppped thinking you are doing something illegal anyway.

        I would also like to send out prayers for your father in law for a quick and speedy recovery, and prayers to you and your wife that you will be able to be strong through this hard time of family illness.

        Go and be with your family on this blessed day.

        Merry Christmas and God Bless
        Adrian
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Patricia, we've known each other for a while now and whether you know
        it or not, I have the utmost respect for you.

        I have no illusions about the fact, yes fact, that I can come off as a
        "know it all" at times. It comes from having a lot of confidence in your
        abilities to help others. I will make no apologies for that as that has been
        and always will be my reasons for being here...that and to build my
        reputation as a successful marketer that people can learn from.

        This is a marketing forum, so I make no apologies for that either. So I
        realize with that will come the slings and arrows.

        A while back I asked about how to promote a book on gambling that I
        was thinking of writing.

        I was brutally told under no uncertain terms by many members here that
        my idea was bad and that they would lose a lot of respect for me if I
        went ahead with it.

        I took this criticism to heart (it was one of the most vicious threads I
        was ever involved in as it cost me a few friends) and ultimately gave up
        the idea.

        But when one person continually finds fault with every word that comes
        out of your mouth, I find it hard to believe that the problem is with me,
        especially when it's ONE person.

        He claims there are others. Fine, I'd like to hear them.

        Regardless, I realized something today when I went to my inlaws for
        Christmas.

        My father in law recently had a stroke and shingles all at the same time.
        Right now, he is barely able to walk and trying to regain the use of his
        right arm.

        Suddenly, a member of this forum thinking I'm a pompous ass just wasn't
        that important anymore.

        I have chosen to ignore Les's remarks, literally, thanks to Paul's suggestion
        to put him on my ignore list. He is the only member of this forum who is
        on that list, even though I have had disagreements with others here.

        See, I'm not above admitting when I'm wrong. When I screw up, I'll come
        here and publicly apologize for doing it. I've done it many times. I'm not
        perfect. I never will be. And there will always be people who hate me to
        go along with those who like me.

        It's the constant harassment for every word that comes out of my mouth,
        going on for 2 years now, that I finally just couldn't take anymore and
        that's why I snapped.

        So okay, I'm human. I let it get to me. I make no apologies for that either.

        After all, 2 years is a long time to have to listen to it.

        But it's all over now. I've finally come to terms with this situation that
        will never change and thus I'll never see another line of text coming from
        this person's keyboard.

        I think it's best for everybody that it stays that way.

        To the rest of you, I'm sorry that you had to see that I'm human. Yeah,
        I get mad when people constantly harass me.

        It won't happen again....because I won't let it.

        I guess this is my way of asking for forgiveness for making this problem
        public. I should have handled it privately. I didn't. I can't go back.

        Anyway, that's all I have.

        Thanks for listening.

        I'm now going to go back to reading Paul Myers latest book.
        What a drama queen.
        It's no wonder everyone is beginning to see through you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    i hope stephen will see this before the thread is nuked - in case someone has actually requested it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Li Weng
    Don't worry Steven.

    You have my respect.
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  • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
    Upon reading the title to Steve's thread, I expected to have another of his favorite songs from Youtube to listen to
    Instead just some more psych 101 entertainment.
    Gotta luv it.
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  • Profile picture of the author dbarnum
    Not taking sides:

    I've also worked with Les, and he's like a brother! You can learn from Les, bottom line. "No BS with Les!" (T-shirts and coffee mugs with this motto anywhere??)

    Steve, you do help others - a lot - -and have helped me more than once. You go out of your way to help others - and a lot, kudos! It's just a matter of logistics, though: the more people you come in contact with, the more adversity will arise. Just human nature, offline and online.

    OK, don't know if this will help, but when I've come into conflict with others, Warriors included, it's helped to dig deep, as suggested above. I've dug into what the other person does, for example, and often found an aspect that's competitive, and that deep down, envy / being jealous issues were attached somewhere along the line.

    What I do then, is this:

    Being a writer, I take time to jot down notes (similar to your article list and what's suggested above, listing your posts) and really dig into what it is that sets us apart, plus what it would take for me to get what I feel I need to compete and surpass the person. Then this becomes one of my new goals, in a way, and I develop steps to not only meet, but exceed the goal.

    Results have been many:

    1) I've met and exceeded the goals or realized they were ones unique to the individual or industry / niche that weren't important to beat.

    2) In the process, I've developed respect and even friendship with the people in the process, meeting some, even, and going over issues we've found we both had with each other

    So everybody, maybe look at 2009 as an opportunity for growth. Jack Humphrey told me something similar that's posted above, "If you aren't ticking (he used slang here ) someone off, you are doing something wrong."

    Also notable here is this excerpt from an interview of Allen Says, conducted by Chris Darrington from NetWoozy, ""Never put another head above your own." And later on in the interview, "Having contacts isn't just being friends with 'other' people - it's being friends with the 'right' people. People who know exactly how to do what you need done."

    Dig deep and learn from what's bothering you. Challenge yourselves and move ahead - -charge, Warriors!

    PS - -Some point out post counts in this thread. Note that often, a person with less - -much less posts - often has a better reply. It's not the person with the most posts who leads. Post count is only a number. It's who you follow, that's a leader.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by dbarnum View Post

      PS - -Some point out post counts in this thread. Note that often, a person with less - -much less posts - often has a better reply. It's not the person with the most posts who leads. Post count is only a number. It's who you follow, that's a leader.
      So true. Yet again, Steven rocks!
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Yeh it is hard to figure how somebody who looks like the human embodiment of Casper the Friendly Ghost, aka Waggs, could ever be ungood in anyone's eyes who could see.

    Then again, Les, well those eyes! Finely tuned on HIgh Alert. MODulated...
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Yeh it is hard to figure how somebody who looks like the human embodiment of Casper the Friendly Ghost, aka Waggs, could ever be ungood in anyone's eyes who could see.

      Then again, Les, well those eyes! Finely tuned on HIgh Alert. MODulated...
      Patricia, I am by no means the walking Messiah or Mr. Perfect, but when
      somebody has not one nice thing to say to you in 2 years, you have to
      start to think that maybe the problem is with the person doing the bitching.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    I understand Stephen. and being Casper - is not the Messiah or Mr. Perfect - Casper is just nice and in this world, Nice is as good as it gets.

    I think it was a big shock to me when my last 'boss' in corporate said 'not everyone will like you' - whaaaaat? moi? (and by the way she hated me from day 1) for 6 years we functioned on that level. From my list of the books i should write, how to enjoy getting laid off.

    (naturally they thought i was charline manson because i was smiling ear to ear and had to suppress giving high fives. 'whoop!' yes, thank you so much when they gave me the news).

    Anyway, bottom line is a hostile environment will beat you down like nothing else and i believe there should be a post-traumatic stress syndrome for anyone who has to live like that.

    As for this thing you are going through, maybe just let it lie and someday you two will work yourselves into a place where you can communicate if only to agree to disagree.

    'Life is too short' - and sometimes not short enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Sister P I need your # for customer support. So when I feel annoyed I can gripe and yell at you

    Now who could be rude to you? Can't imagine!
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  • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
    Hmm would it be unethical to join PIP for the sole intention of yelling and griping about to Sister P about whatever I'm annoyed at?
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    hahehaha so funny i forgot to laugh!

    you don't want to go there ms annoyed.

    but thank you - i can't imagine you being mean...
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    • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      i can't imagine you being mean...

      Me neither. I am almost incapable of being mean! But I still want to yell at you and air all of my grievances to you. Sounds fun By the way once time there was this really rude customer service person on the phone once, was that you??
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    you are banned from the pips helpdesk ms annoyING

    ahalalahahahahahalololololhahaheheheheehehoo
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