Who built the great Pyramids of Egypt?

394 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Do most of you believe they were built the way they taught us in school.

Or do any of you believe that the Pyramids are actually a lot older than we have been told and were not built by the Egyptians at all.

Some facts:

The pyramid is estimated to have about 2,300,000 stone blocks weighing from 2-30 Tons each with some weighing as much as 70 tons.

There is so much stone mass in the pyramid that the interior temperature is constant and equals the average temperature of the earth, 20 Degrees Celsius (68 Degrees Fahrenheit).

Two types of limestone were used for construction. A soft limestone either pure or nummulitic was used for the bulk of the core blocks and a hard white limestone for the mantle. Hard limestone becomes more polished with age.

The base of the pyramid covers 55,000m2 (592,000 ft2) with each side greater than 20,000m2 (218,000 ft2) in area.

The outer mantle was composed of 144,000 casing stones, all highly polished and flat to an accuracy of 1/100th of an inch, about 100 inches thick and weighing about 15 tons each.

The average casing stone on the lowest level was 5 ft. long by 5 ft. high by 6 ft. deep and weighed 15 tons.

The mortar used is of an unknown origin. It has been analyzed and its chemical composition is known but it can't be reproduced. It is stronger than the stone and still holding up today.

The cornerstone foundations of the pyramid have ball and socket construction capable of dealing with heat expansion and earthquakes.

There are no hieroglyphics or writing in the Great Pyramid.

With the mantle in place, the Great Pyramid could be seen from the mountains in Israel and probably the moon as well.

Its polished surfaces would have reflected light like a beacon.

Aligned True North: The Great Pyramid is the most accurately aligned structure in existence and faces true north with only 3/60th of a degree of error. The position of the North Pole moves over time and the pyramid was exactly aligned at one time.

Centre of Land Mass: The Great Pyramid is located at the centre of the land mass of the earth. The east/west parallel that crosses the most land and the north/south meridian that crosses the most land intersect in two places on the earth, one in the ocean and the other at the Great Pyramid.

The relationship between Pi (p) and Phi (F) is expressed in the fundamental proportions of the Great Pyramid.

  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    The Egyptians built the Great Pyramid, using a force of 100,000 workers rotated every 3 months for something like 30 years.

    The info posted is simply proof that ancient peoples had more knowledge and skills than we give them credit for, rather than proof of some more exotic theories.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999703].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author James Sides
      I also believe Egyptians built them.

      People tend to think we are so advanced today but many things we "think" we invented were around long before us.

      Heck, there were actually "fast food" restaurants during ancient Roman times.

      Who would have thought?

      Cheers,

      James
      Signature

      "People will remain the same until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change."

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999721].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author James Sides
        Haha, I watched the video and I think someone needs to check this guy's math...

        He's making fun of other people but umm..he said that in order to complete the pyramids working 365 days a year 10 hours a day one rock had to be placed every 2 minutes.

        Then...

        He said that farmers were actually doing it in only 3 months per year which would mean they had to place a rock every 2 seconds.

        Sorry partner but last I checked 2 minutes / 4 (3 months instead of 12) = 30 seconds not 2 seconds.

        The video does make ya think though!

        Cheers,

        James
        Signature

        "People will remain the same until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change."

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999790].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by Fenderkid View Post

        I also believe Egyptians built them.

        People tend to think we are so advanced today but many things we "think" we invented were around long before us.

        Heck, there were actually "fast food" restaurants during ancient Roman times.

        Who would have thought?

        Cheers,

        James
        Yep...The Romans also had shopping malls, and the roof on the Colosseum has a retractable roof that they could use to keep the rain or sun off of spectators.

        And the Greeks calculated the circumference of the Earth about the same time as the pyramids, disproving ancient people thought the Earth was flat. All sea mariners knew the Earth was round, they could tell by seeing other ships slowly disappear over the horizon.

        The Greeks of that era had very sophisticated math abilities, such as the Pythagorean theorem and Archimedes' formula for calculating buoyancy...Eureka!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999840].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author James Sides
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Yep...The Romans also had shopping malls, and the roof on the Colosseum has a retractable roof that they could use to keep the rain or sun off of spectators.

          And the Greeks calculated the circumference of the Earth about the same time as the pyramids, disproving ancient people thought the Earth was flat. All sea mariners knew the Earth was round, they could tell by seeing other ships slowly disappear over the horizon.

          The Greeks of that era had very sophisticated math abilities, such as the Pythagorean theorem and Archimedes' formula for calculating buoyancy...Eureka!
          Now, I did not know about the roof on the Colosseum.

          That's Awesome!

          -James
          Signature

          "People will remain the same until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change."

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999900].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Fenderkid View Post

            Now, I did not know about the roof on the Colosseum.

            That's Awesome!

            -James
            I wrote "has" a retractable roof..I should have said "had".

            It could also be filled with water very quickly for navy battle shows, and then drained very quickly. The draining system was a marvel in itself.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999937].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author James Sides
              I knew about the water and even consider myself fairly knowledgeable about ancient Rome but the roof was new to me. Just goes to show you never know as much as you think (or at least I don't lol)

              Thanks Kurt!

              James
              Signature

              "People will remain the same until the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change."

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999951].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          All sea mariners knew the Earth was round, they could tell by seeing other ships slowly disappear over the horizon.
          I think this is a bit of a folk lore. Here's why...(and remember, they did not have telescopes to aid their vision back then)...

          Standing at sea level a 6' person sees the horizon right at three miles out. At three miles it's very hard to determine any details. A ship that is over the horizon and has a mast of let's say 96 feet tall would start to become visible at about 12 miles.

          (If the height increases by a factor of (x) the distance to the horizon increases by the square root of (x). So if we increase the height by a factor of 16 (16 X 6 = 96) we need to increase the distance by a factor of 4 which is the square root of 16. So, 3 miles X 4 = 12 miles. We may even need to add the three miles our six feet of eyeball elevation gave us to make it 15 miles, but let's just say 12 for good measure. I'm sure Roaddog or Bradley could help me out here )

          And we all know that seeing something of detail at three miles is almost impossible, so seeing the tip of a 96 foot mast at 12 miles as it breaks the horizon is no going to happen. Not without a telescope.

          The reality is the ship will tend to grow from a small dot on the horizon to a ship as it gets nearer to the eye. By thye time you could make out any decernable details of the ship it will be almost completely above the horizon. The same is true for it going away from you.

          Now, that's just my take on it. I wasn't around back then...
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000353].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            I think this is a bit of a folk lore. Here's why...(and remember, they did not have telescopes to aid their vision back then)...

            Standing at sea level a 6' person sees the horizon right at three miles out. At three miles it's very hard to determine any details. A ship that is over the horizon and has a mast of let's say 96 feet tall would start to become visible at about 12 miles.

            (If the height increases by a factor of (x) the distance to the horizon increases by the square root of (x). So if we increase the height by a factor of 16 (16 X 6 = 96) we need to increase the distance by a factor of 4 which is the square root of 16. So, 3 miles X 4 = 12 miles. We may even need to add the three miles our six feet of eyeball elevation gave us to make it 15 miles, but let's just say 12 for good measure. I'm sure Roaddog or Bradley could help me out here )

            And we all know that seeing something of detail at three miles is almost impossible, so seeing the tip of a 96 foot mast at 12 miles as it breaks the horizon is no going to happen. Not without a telescope.

            The reality is the ship will tend to grow from a small dot on the horizon to a ship as it gets nearer to the eye. By thye time you could make out any decernable details of the ship it will be almost completely above the horizon. The same is true for it going away from you.

            Now, that's just my take on it. I wasn't around back then...
            Even if they couldn't see a ship disapear over the horizon, they sailed more than 3 miles without falling off the Earth, which is the distance of the horizon from shore.

            And, you're assuming that they need to see the mast in "detail". They didn't. They only needed to see the boat and sails and that they didn't disappear all at once. I believe Columbus' ships were about 100 feet long, a much bigger target than a mast. How big were the sails and add this to the size of the object that would be visible, as this is more relevant than than seeing the masts "in detail".

            So the real question becomes, can a person make out an 100 ft object with large sails which were probably larger than the boat itself in linear feet, at 3 miles and watch it "gradually" disappear over the horizon?

            But it really doesn't matter, as the point is that ancient sailors knew the world was round and the Greeks proved it mathematically.

            The reality is the ship will tend to grow from a small dot on the horizon to a ship as it gets nearer to the eye. By thye time you could make out any decernable details of the ship it will be almost completely above the horizon. The same is true for it going away from you.
            My point exactly. Thanks.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000472].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      If that were the case, they would have had to move one building block on average every two minutes and set it into place.

      That doesn't include the time it would have taken them them to actually transport the stone from the quarry, which was on the other side of the Nile, Hundreds of miles away.

      Not to mention the Millions of trees they would have imported (from God knows where) to build their ramps and pulleys.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      The Egyptians built the Great Pyramid, using a force of 100,000 workers rotated every 3 months for something like 30 years.

      The info posted is simply proof that ancient peoples had more knowledge and skills than we give them credit for, rather than proof of some more exotic theories.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999739].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        If that were the case, they would have had to move one building block on average every two minutes and set it into place.

        That doesn't include the time it would have taken them them to actually transport the stone from the quarry, which was on the other side of the Nile, Hundreds of miles away.

        Not to mention the Millions of trees they would have imported (from God knows where) to build their ramps and pulleys.
        100,000 fresh people, rotated every 3 months, with good engineers can do a lot of work.

        Ramps where made of sand and pulleys of stone, both plentily available.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3999788].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author flowbee77
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        If that were the case, they would have had to move one building block on average every two minutes and set it into place.

        That doesn't include the time it would have taken them them to actually transport the stone from the quarry, which was on the other side of the Nile, Hundreds of miles away.

        Not to mention the Millions of trees they would have imported (from God knows where) to build their ramps and pulleys.
        Well Bravo,
        it is possible....remember this is all most of these people did throughout the day...it's not llike they had too many distractions like the internet or something...hmmm..or maybe they did.........

        Have you ever read Bauval's hypothesis that there is a correlation between the pyramids of Giza and Orion's belt?
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000568].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          I thought that was common knowledge.


          Originally Posted by flowbee77 View Post

          Have you ever read Bauval's hypothesis that there is a correlation between the pyramids of Giza and Orion's belt?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000579].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
      The Great Pyramid was built before the Egyptian culture settled in the area. The Great Sphinx was refaced by the Egyptians after they settled into the area. It was a female face on the body of the Lion prior to the refacing, representing a famed priestess - that is why it is out of proportion. Also, the outer layer of the Sphinx was a repair job done by the Egyptians. The original structure also had very wide shoulders to represent the priestess headress and wardrobe she wore before she was killed out of fear. The waterline structural damage in the structure underneath the outer layer points to a great flooding in the area some 14,000 years prior. Much of this info is not common public knowledge due to erroneous information taught in the schools. Actual history does not fit into our school of thought of how history "should be," which is why it is not taught.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      The Egyptians built the Great Pyramid, using a force of 100,000 workers rotated every 3 months for something like 30 years.

      The info posted is simply proof that ancient peoples had more knowledge and skills than we give them credit for, rather than proof of some more exotic theories.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088064].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
        Also, the pyramids were NEVER tombs. That is why there never were bodies discovered in the open sarcophagi. The open sarcophagi in the King's chamber represents a point in time when death will no longer exist as it currently does. The King's chamber is also harmonically perfect - resonances were specifically designed into the structure itself. All the mathematical formulas in the Great pyramid (including ones we have not yet discovered that point to yet another "force" other than gravitation. We are, however, in the process of discovering and utilizing this new "force" through our current research in superconductivity) represent perfection and a historical timeline of this planet. The "airshaft" as archaeologists call it, points to position of Orion at a specific time of 14,500 years B.C. to honor the origins of the human race... that this planet was "seeded," or "aided" by a race other than humans. The date also represents the timeline when the Great Pyramid was built by the civilization that predated and preexisted the Egyptians. Several temple markings in the area show vehicles of the air and water that the "gods" used, including what look like rockets and the stereotypical flying saucer. This particular info definitely does not fit into our version of history and is shunned by archaeologists, even though it is plainly visible to the eye. Also, the Sumerian culture has left us with a library of cuneiform tablets that discuss these "gods" - the Annunaki who came from the sky and taught the human race the keys to agriculture, astronomy, and mathematics, among other things. These writings also point out and show clearly (on embossed copper, gold and brass plates) that "The Tree of Life" is a DNA helix and that homo sapiens was a race created by recombinant DNA methodologies that used the dna from humanoid species that existed on earth at the time of their (gods - note, small g) arrival with DNA from the gods. This piece of information also does not fit into our version of accepted history and so is shunned by our archaeologists.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088116].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Candela
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      The Egyptians built the Great Pyramid, using a force of 100,000 workers rotated every 3 months for something like 30 years.

      The info posted is simply proof that ancient peoples had more knowledge and skills than we give them credit for, rather than proof of some more exotic theories.
      Of course Egyptians built them,asking this question is like asking who built the Empire State Building or the World Trade Center. Why not ask who built the World's tallest building in Dubai?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4093755].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        Interesting thoughts....But of course, completely wrong!

        Originally Posted by Candela View Post

        Of course Egyptians built them,asking this question is like asking who built the Empire State Building or the World Trade Center. Why not ask who built the World's tallest building in Dubai?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4093773].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Candela
          Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

          Interesting thoughts....But of course, completely wrong!
          Explain why.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4093801].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Candela
          Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

          Interesting thoughts....But of course, completely wrong!
          Explain why.

          According to National Georgraphic: nationalgeographic.com/pyramids/pyramids.html#who

          Who Built the Pyramids?

          Contrary to some popular depictions, the pyramid builders were not slaves or foreigners. Excavated skeletons show that they were Egyptians who lived in villages developed and overseen by the pharaoh's supervisors.


          The builders' villages boasted bakers, butchers, brewers, granaries, houses, cemeteries, and probably even some sorts of health-care facilities—there is evidence of laborers surviving crushed or amputated limbs. Bakeries excavated near the Great Pyramids could have produced thousands of loaves of bread every week.


          Some of the builders were permanent employees of the pharaoh. Others were conscripted for a limited time from local villages. Some may have been women: Although no depictions of women builders have been found, some female skeletons show wear that suggests they labored with heavy stone for long periods of time.


          Graffiti indicates that at least some of these workers took pride in their work, calling their teams "Friends of Khufu," "Drunkards of Menkaure," and so on—names indicating allegiances to pharaohs.
          An estimated 20,000 to 30,000 workers built the Pyramids at Giza over 80 years. Much of the work probably happened while the River Nile was flooded.

          Huge limestone blocks could be floated from quarries right to the base of the Pyramids. The stones would likely then be polished by hand and pushed up ramps to their intended positions.



          It took more than manual labor, though. Architects achieved an accurate pyramid shape by running ropes from the outer corners up to the planned summit, to make sure the stones were positioned correctly. And priests-astronomers helped choose the pyramids' sites and orientations, so that they would be on the appropriate axis in relation to sacred constellations.
          From stone pusher to priest, every worker would likely have recognized his or her role in continuing the life-and-death cycle of the pharaohs, and thereby in perpetuating the glory of Egypt.
          Now lets give a big hand to the genius of one of Africa's great civilizations and put the nonsense to rest.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4093820].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Candela View Post

            Explain why.

            According to National Georgraphic: nationalgeographic.com/pyramids/pyramids.html#who


            Now lets give a big hand to the genius of one of Africa's great civilizations and put the nonsense to rest.
            Come on, Candela! You're going to have to do better than that! National Geographic? Seriously? They are nothing more than a puppet organization run by the Illuminati to keep these popular myths in the general consciousness.

            (Am I getting the hang of thiss yet?)

            ~M~
            Signature

            "Ich bin en fuego!"
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4094825].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mixengineer
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Come on, Candela! You're going to have to do better than that! National Geographic? Seriously? They are nothing more than a puppet organization run by the Illuminati to keep these popular myths in the general consciousness.

              (Am I getting the hang of thiss yet?)

              ~M~
              Isnt the tribunal the NatGeo, History channel, and Discovery channel? I remember watching the investigation on the news with the ancient astronauts. Good times, beer wasnt that good back then though.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4094916].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                Originally Posted by Mixengineer View Post

                Isnt the tribunal the NatGeo, History channel, and Discovery channel? I remember watching the investigation on the news with the ancient astronauts. Good times, beer wasnt that good back then though.
                Shhhhh! A secret cabal is only good if it's kept secret.

                ~M~

                (Yes, I am pointing out the irony and hypocrsiy so prevalent in conspiracy theories)
                ,
                ,
                ,
                ,
                ,
                ,
                ,
                ,
                ,
                ,
                ,Don't bother looking for hidden messages in this post.
                Signature

                "Ich bin en fuego!"
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4094930].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    You can have all the computers, engineers, manpower, cranes, robots and people in the world, and you CANNOT recreate the Great Pyramid at Giza.

    To get 2,300,000 blocks ranging from 2-7 tonnes each, all fit together with 1/100th of an inch off precise perfection, you'll need a little more than 30 years, copper tools, and a few hundred thousand people to achieve this.

    We are told the pyramids were the tombs for the dead pharoh's, yet not a single mummy has ever been found in a pyramid.

    There is no documentation whatsoever that the Egyptians built the pyramids.
    For a people that were so transparent about their day to day life, it seems odd to me that they never mentioned building the pyramids.

    None of the hieroglyphics anywhere describe any of the methods (or anything for that matter) about building pyramids. Did they forget to scribble it on the walls? Were they keeping it secret?
    Surely they would have been proud of their greatest achievement. They were so open about everything else but decided not to tell future generations about their how they created the biggest man made structures ever built?

    There are stone slabs inside the pyramid weighing up to a Thousand tons. These slabs are a 150 ft high up, deep inside the pyramids. 1000 TONS.
    Our biggest cranes today can only lift around 200 tons and that is only, say from a shipyard to a massive tanker.

    How were they able to to lift these things? Even with a 100,000 workers it would have been impossible.

    Anyhow, the Egyptians themselves said they didn't build them but their gods did.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000072].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      You can have all the computers, engineers, manpower, cranes, robots and people in the world, and you CANNOT recreate the Great Pyramid at Giza.

      To get 2,300,000 blocks ranging from 2-7 tonnes each, all fit together with 1/100th of an inch off precise perfection, you'll need a little more than 30 years, copper tools, and a few hundred thousand people to achieve this.

      We are told the pyramids were the tombs for the dead pharoh's, yet not a single mummy has ever been found in a pyramid.

      There is no documentation whatsoever that the Egyptians built the pyramids.
      For a people that were so transparent about their day to day life, it seems odd to me that they never mentioned building the pyramids.

      None of the hieroglyphics anywhere describe any of the methods (or anything for that matter) about building pyramids. Did they forget to scribble it on the walls? Were they keeping it secret?
      Surely they would have been proud of their greatest achievement. They were so open about everything else but decided not to tell future generations about their how they created the biggest man made structures ever built?

      There are stone slabs inside the pyramid weighing up to a Thousand tons. These slabs are a 150 ft high up, deep inside the pyramids. 1000 TONS.
      Our biggest cranes today can only lift around 200 tons and that is only, say from a shipyard to a massive tanker.

      How were they able to to lift these things? Even with a 100,000 workers it would have been impossible.

      Anyhow, the Egyptians themselves said they didn't build them but their gods did.
      Yep, "Gods" building the pyramids is a much better theory. :rolleyes:

      BTW, I saw a special on TV a while ago and they proved those blocks could be lifted by giant kites. Not saying this is how they did it, only that it is one possible way they could have done it.

      The most probable technique was building sloping ramps out of sand and using a variety of levers and pullies. This has already been done in testesting.

      The 100,000 man theory is just one number that does NOT include beasts of burdon.

      Just because you can't explain it, sure doesn't mean Ra was onsite lifting boulders. If the "Gods" did it, why did it take so long? Now prove your theory...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000107].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        Giant kites? Must have been one hell of a kite to lift a 1000 ton stone slab 150 feet into the air.

        I didn't say the "gods" built the pyramids, I said the Egyptians themselves said it. I have no idea how they were built.

        Think about it though, we are not talking about a couple of Thousand blocks here, we are talking about 2,300,000 massive, perfectly carved, perfectly aligned massive limestone blocks, weighing several tons.

        Engineers claim even today, using GPS, our biggest cranes, tens of Thousands of men couldn't achieve the sort of precision the Egyptians achieved 2600 BC.

        You have to admit, it does make one think.

        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Yep, "Gods" building the pyramids is a much better theory. :rolleyes:

        BTW, I saw a special on TV a while ago and they proved those blocks could be lifted by giant kites. Not saying this is how they did it, only that it is one possible way they could have done it.

        The most probable technique was building sloping ramps out of sand and using a variety of levers and pullies. This has already been done in testesting.

        The 100,000 man theory is just one number that does NOT include beasts of burdon.

        Just because you can't explain it, sure doesn't mean Ra was onsite lifting boulders. If the "Gods" did it, why did it take so long? Now prove your theory...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000170].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

          Giant kites? Must have been one hell of a kite to lift a 1000 ton stone slab 150 feet into the air.

          I didn't say the "gods" built the pyramids, I said the Egyptians themselves said it. I have no idea how they were built.

          Think about it though, we are not talking about a couple of Thousand blocks here, we are talking about 2,300,000 massive, perfectly carved, perfectly aligned massive limestone blocks, weighing several tons.

          Engineers claim even today, using GPS, our biggest cranes, tens of Thousands of men couldn't achieve the sort of precision the Egyptians achieved 2600 BC.

          You have to admit, it does make one think.
          Yep...And the kites were even made from materials available to Egyptians.

          As for big weights, the use of counter-weights can greatly minimize the energy needed to lift a stone. This is how many modern elevators work. If you have a 5000 lb stone, put 40 people on a counter balance and the stone "weighs" less than zero. The people (and animals) then walk up the ramps again, and become counter weights once more, to be lowered again as the stones are raised.

          We can also see chisel marks on the stones, showing the Egyptians were great stone masons.

          BTW, over 30 years my math seems to show that to place 2.3 million stones is an average of 210 a day. With 100,000 workers on site, I believe this is entirely possble.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000293].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author bravo75
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Yep...And the kites were even made from materials available to Egyptians.

            As for big weights, the use of counter-weights can greatly minimize the energy needed to lift a stone. This is how many modern elevators work. If you have a 5000 lb stone, put 40 people on a counter balance and the stone "weighs" less than zero. The people (and animals) then walk up the ramps again, and become counter weights once more, to be lowered again as the stones are raised.

            We can also see chisel marks on the stones, showing the Egyptians were great stone masons.

            BTW, over 30 years my math seems to show that to place 2.3 million stones is an average of 210 a day. With 100,000 workers on site, I believe this is entirely possble.
            Interesting. The counter weight theory is something I can totally get my head around.
            Still a lot of questions unanswered.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000390].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        <sigh>


        In a short overview, Mark Lehner, Archaeologist, Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago, Harvard Semitic Museum and Zahi Hawass, Director General of Giza may have something here:

        NOVA Online Who Built the Pyramids?
        (math included)
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000177].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author lcombs
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Yep, "Gods" building the pyramids is a much better theory. :rolleyes:

        BTW, I saw a special on TV a while ago and they proved those blocks could be lifted by giant kites. Not saying this is how they did it, only that it is one possible way they could have done it.

        The most probable technique was building sloping ramps out of sand and using a variety of levers and pullies. This has already been done in testesting.

        The 100,000 man theory is just one number that does NOT include beasts of burdon.

        Just because you can't explain it, sure doesn't mean Ra was onsite lifting boulders. If the "Gods" did it, why did it take so long? Now prove your theory...
        This is not aimed at you specifically Kurt. I'm just using your quote as a generalization of the thread.

        Everything being said here and every other media is all theory and
        conjecture.

        However, your last sentence intrigues me.
        If you can't explain it then, it doesn't mean that "RA" wasn't onsite either.
        And, how do we know how long it took to build them?

        Also, the great pyramid is 480' tall. How long would it take to build a ramp that could be used for manpower and ancient levers and pullys to pull 7 ton stones that high?
        And, how much sand would it take to build those ramps and pack them hard enough to hold that much weight?

        I'm not sure when scientists started seriously studying them using "modern" techniques, but I will say that using technology of the last 20 - 30 years we still have no concrete answer as to how it was done.
        Which begs the question, how long did it take the ancient Egyptions to figure it out?

        Just my 2 cents worth.

        LC
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4027409].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
          Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

          I'm not sure when scientists started seriously studying them using "modern" techniques, but I will say that using technology of the last 20 - 30 years we still have no concrete answer as to how it was done.
          Which begs the question, how long did it take the ancient Egyptions to figure it out?
          LC, one thing to keep in mind is that all of our current technologies are profit driven and as such do not take into consideration anything as specific as the undertaking of building a pyramid for the sake of building one.

          The Hoover dam is far taller than the pyramids yet had a functional purpose in mind and so it was funded.

          I think if it were a scientific fact that an asteroid would hit a very specific piece of the desert and only by building a pyramid of equivelent size to the Great Pryamid such that the impact would be mitigated by a strike dead center on the point of said pyramid it could get funded and done in a 20-30 year period. (Takes breath)

          That's a truly far fetched example I just used to make a point, btw...
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4027477].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author lcombs
            Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

            LC, one thing to keep in mind is that all of our current technologies are profit driven and as such do not take into consideration anything as specific as the undertaking of building a pyramid for the sake of building one.

            The Hoover dam is far taller than the pyramids yet had a functional purpose in mind and so it was funded.

            I think if it were a scientific fact that an asteroid would hit a very specific piece of the desert and only by building a pyramid of equivelent size to the Great Pryamid such that the impact would be mitigated by a strike dead center on the point of said pyramid it could get funded and done in a 20-30 year period. (Takes breath)

            That's a truly far fetched example I just used to make a point, btw...
            I don't believe all technology is profit driven.
            I don't think NASA is necessarily profit driven.
            And, people get multi-million dollar grants to study the mating habits of the tsi-tsi fly. ('nother far-fetched example just make a point )
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4027688].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

              I don't believe all technology is profit driven.
              I don't think NASA is necessarily profit driven.
              And, people get multi-million dollar grants to study the mating habits of the tsi-tsi fly. ('nother far-fetched example just make a point )
              True that, although one of the driving factors for NASA has been spin-off technologies that would spawn profitable enterprises.

              I probably should have narrowed my scope to the construction technologies of which I was speaking about.

              Totally forgot about the tsi-tsi fly twist that would and did crop up when talking about construction technologies.
              Signature
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4027751].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author lcombs
                Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

                True that, although one of the driving factors for NASA has been spin-off technologies that would spawn profitable enterprises.

                I probably should have narrowed my scope to the construction technologies of which I was speaking about.

                Totally forgot about the tsi-tsi fly twist that would and did crop up when talking about construction technologies.
                I don't believe "Spin-off technologies" were one of the driving factors of NASA, but more of a very valuable residual result.

                Which, unfortunately, will suffer greatly thanks to O'bama.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4028767].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

          This is not aimed at you specifically Kurt. I'm just using your quote as a generalization of the thread.

          Everything being said here and every other media is all theory and
          conjecture.

          However, your last sentence intrigues me.
          If you can't explain it then, it doesn't mean that "RA" wasn't onsite either.
          And, how do we know how long it took to build them?

          Also, the great pyramid is 480' tall. How long would it take to build a ramp that could be used for manpower and ancient levers and pullys to pull 7 ton stones that high?
          And, how much sand would it take to build those ramps and pack them hard enough to hold that much weight?

          I'm not sure when scientists started seriously studying them using "modern" techniques, but I will say that using technology of the last 20 - 30 years we still have no concrete answer as to how it was done.
          Which begs the question, how long did it take the ancient Egyptions to figure it out?

          Just my 2 cents worth.

          LC

          First, the ramps were simply very long sloping ramps made of sand. As more levels of the pyramid were built, the ramps were built up as well.

          While there are a lot of stones, pyramids get smaller as they get higher, so the higher you go, the fewer stones are required to make a level of the pyramid.

          It's already been proven that it didn't take very many men to move these big stones up the ramps, as it's a fairly easy experiment to recreate. You should see MYOB's earlier post that describes these experiments.

          I did explain it. It just isn't as "interesting" to some that hard work and great early human engineering built the pyramids as it is to believe in magic.

          BTW, Napolean is credited with being the first modern Egyptologist, so we've been studying the pyramids for around 200 years. And there's other things the modern science can't duplicate, like demascus steel.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4029862].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author WilliamBerg
    Early Vikings built the pyramids with help from a blue cow from the future. End of story. Or it might have been the egyptians. When labour and labour conditions isnt an issue it really isn´t that hard to create wonders.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4000194].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

    Do most of you believe they were built the way they taught us in school.

    Or do any of you believe that the Pyramids are actually a lot older than we have been told and were not built by the Egyptians at all.

    Some facts:

    The pyramid is estimated to have about 2,300,000 stone blocks weighing from 2-30 Tons each with some weighing as much as 70 tons.

    There is so much stone mass in the pyramid that the interior temperature is constant and equals the average temperature of the earth, 20 Degrees Celsius (68 Degrees Fahrenheit).

    Two types of limestone were used for construction. A soft limestone either pure or nummulitic was used for the bulk of the core blocks and a hard white limestone for the mantle. Hard limestone becomes more polished with age.

    The base of the pyramid covers 55,000m2 (592,000 ft2) with each side greater than 20,000m2 (218,000 ft2) in area.

    The outer mantle was composed of 144,000 casing stones, all highly polished and flat to an accuracy of 1/100th of an inch, about 100 inches thick and weighing about 15 tons each.

    The average casing stone on the lowest level was 5 ft. long by 5 ft. high by 6 ft. deep and weighed 15 tons.

    The mortar used is of an unknown origin. It has been analyzed and its chemical composition is known but it can't be reproduced. It is stronger than the stone and still holding up today.
    FUNNY, I heard that the "mortar" was actually quite common. It has some O2, some N2, etc.... Oh well, we tend to call it by its common name, AIR! Apparently it hasn't held up well AT ALL! If you had what is often called mortar today with stones THAT large, how were they cannibalized? It's said that they cannibalized some pyramids that then got that stepped appearance.

    The cornerstone foundations of the pyramid have ball and socket construction capable of dealing with heat expansion and earthquakes.
    I never heard about THAT. I have heard people talk about MANY things, but a dovetail like joit, which I'm SURE is what you MUST mean, would be FAR too complicated to easily explain away in such an area. I mean you would have to ACCURATELY cut BOTH sides, and move one block up/down, or across, for its full length. A ball/socket joint is like a persons hip, and is used to allow one part to move around another. That wouldn't help the pyramids withstand an earthquake. A dovetail joint is called that because it is broader at the side away from the join, so the tail or material would have to break to pull the two pieces apart. Extending the full length, it would have to move the whole length to separate the other way, and they are generally glued together. Here, the sheer size and slight imperfections, would make that difficult.

    But a pyramid is one of the simplest structures, from a support standpoint. As it goes higher, it has to carry less and less weight. If an earthquake were to happen, almost ALL damage is likely to happen from liquefaction!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4001145].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Bravo -- much of the "scientific" knowledge that gets to the public is so censored that we never really have much of a clue what the real story is. I have friends who are archaeologists and they disagree with the "released" version, too. There are some major questions about the Sphinx, too. Too bad the Library of Alexandria was destroyed. The answers were most likely there and lost for eternity. In the 1500's there were maps floating around that were more advanced than we were able to produce until way into the 1970's - areal quality - and in fact a few miscalculations on the modern maps were fixed by the military when studying discrepancies with the Piri Reis map. Writings of Piri Reis state that the map was made from info at that library. It shows the Antarctic coast as it would not have been known since before 11 - 12,000 years ago - without snow. Nobody knows how they got the calculations they did, but it is said it can ONLY be ascertained from the air. How old are the Sphinx? Nobody has a clue. When you hear the status quo talk about it publicly they give the idea it's another Egyptian artifact - it's not, at least not from that era. It might have built by miners that lived East about 11,000 years ago. They have only recently found the civilization existed so don't know much other than they were miners.

    Who were the ancients that lived in Grand Canyon? The cave is sealed and nobody is speaking. I know a scientist that has had dealings there, and he won't speak about it - but he's not the least slow to call the "official community" lying scumbags. The suppression of science is far more rampant than the average person realizes.

    With more people gaining access to new scientific location equipment, more people are finding more anachronistic artifacts. Suppression is becoming difficult. It may not be too long before we start getting some real answers to some very pervasive questions. For right now about the most we can ask is what is it that is known that is so important to remain untold.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4001176].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW there are LOTS of VERY ancient methods tat could explain some of the most complicated questions, and some have been PROVEN to be usable.

    NOW, if we didn't have current history, HOW could you explain mount rushmore? People went up there and carved it? LUDICROUS! They risked their lives to honor people that many didn't like? HUH? It really DOES sound crazy!

    And what of the super jumbo jet? Do you realize that some parts have to be shipped through streets where they have to shut down the streets and move the parts with like 2" clearance? INSANE!

    Yet mount rushmore exists, and there are videos of it being built. The super jumbo jet exists!

    HECK, even the 747(as I recall) had to have a special plane built to ship some parts!!!!!

    A lot of the things that guy uses to further his argument are just STUPID! Like farmers don't need to spend 100% of the time, so they COULD have worked longer periods, but THEY weren't needed ANYWAY!

    And what of ICs? Do you realize that we have no way to really build ICs? I mean they don't fabricate a bunch of pieces and put them together. It is done by depositing, and etching, and developing, etc... Oh YEAH, INTEL can't make them, but if the TINIEST part fails, they can NOT fix it! What might people think if they lose history about US? They wonder how we built these COMPLEX 1cm square chips. GOOD LUCK figuring out how we did it! Last I knew, they used SEVERAL sheets that were like 5 by 7 FEET to create the pictures that create the layers of the chips. Because they are SO large, they are easier to make/debug/patch, and you can use technology that could reduce the 747 in FULL detail down to something you could hardly see with the naked eye.

    Until sometime in like the mid 1980s, they used REGULAR LIGHT to expose the chips! The basis for the technology was like over 30 years old! But would they have ever DREAMED of such a thing?

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4001212].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      And what of ICs? Do you realize that we have no way to really build ICs? I mean they don't fabricate a bunch of pieces and put them together. It is done by depositing, and etching, and developing, etc... Oh YEAH, INTEL can't make them, but if the TINIEST part fails, they can NOT fix it! What might people think if they lose history about US? They wonder how we built these COMPLEX 1cm square chips. GOOD LUCK figuring out how we did it!
      Along those lines...

      One of the largest roadblocks to the USA getting back to the Moon has been the fact that the people who, and I'm talking about on every level from manufacturing to management, have retired or are dead.

      It's easy to believe that all the ad hoc solutions to get things accomplished, jerry-rigged, improvised, et al, were written down to the last detail, but that was not the case. Many of the critical details have been lost to history.

      Think about this...

      When the first space shuttle blew up it came to light that the same types of leaks also experienced by the earlier Mercury and Gemini missions were handled by stuffing rags into the leaky gaskets.

      Do you think they documented that as an official fix? Not likely.

      Here's the bottom line...the more complicated a system is the more chance it has to be lost to history.

      We're so close to the edge right now that on some of our current technologies if we lose even one piece of the puzzle that technology will have to be replaced. Steve's example is an excellent one. If Intel had been headquartered in the WTC buildings we may have been looking at a different world right now.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4001443].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    It is not as if the Great Pyramid suddenly appeared on its own. There are a number of less refined pyramids and a few failed attempts. So the ancient Egyptians has hundreds of years to perfect their design and building methods. Graffiti is actually found on individual stones, often with the name of the gang of builders involved.
    Signature

    Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4001260].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      It is not as if the Great Pyramid suddenly appeared on its own. There are a number of less refined pyramids and a few failed attempts. So the ancient Egyptians has hundreds of years to perfect their design and building methods. Graffiti is actually found on individual stones, often with the name of the gang of builders involved.
      Great points.

      Dude with the video is simply trying to make a name for himself with his theories and I'm sure he can find an very willing audience for all things related to Pyramids.

      Reminds me of the book Chariots Of The Gods.

      The concept of the Pyramid was introduced by some guy named Imhotep who also happened to be a multi-talented genius.

      He is also the Egyptian father of medicine and was the King's right hand man - known to them as a vizier but he is not given the credit for building any of the great pyramids.

      He built what is known as the step pyramid which is 6 increasingly smaller squares placed on top of each other.

      He was so revered by the Egyptians that he was placed in the pantheon of Egyptian so-called gods as Thahuti or Thoth (science) and is the guy taking measurements of the life/deeds of the deceased in the famous Egyptian funeral judgement scene.


      Someone said...

      There is no documentation whatsoever that the Egyptians built the pyramids.
      For a people that were so transparent about their day to day life, it seems odd to me that they never mentioned building the pyramids.

      But...

      The great pyramids are claimed by three Pharaohs of the 4th dynasty and built around 2700 BC down to about 2500 BC.

      Khufu built the Great Pyramid, his son Khafre built the 2nd largest one and his grandson Menkaura claims credit for the smallest of the 3.

      Note: The Pyramid workers were also paid with lots of beer.

      TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003213].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      In my opinion, those smaller, less than perfect Pyramids actually were built by the Egyptians.
      They were just trying to emulate the structures that were already there, built a long time before they arrived.
      A sort of cargo cult, if you like. Interesting point you make about the graffiti that can be found. These people were proud of their work and wanted others to know it was them who built them.

      Interestingly, none of this "graffiti" can be found anywhere on the original larger Pyramids because they didn't build them.

      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      It is not as if the Great Pyramid suddenly appeared on its own. There are a number of less refined pyramids and a few failed attempts. So the ancient Egyptians has hundreds of years to perfect their design and building methods. Graffiti is actually found on individual stones, often with the name of the gang of builders involved.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003239].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        In my opinion, those smaller, less than perfect Pyramids actually were built by the Egyptians.
        They were just trying to emulate the structures that were already there, built a long time before they arrived.
        A sort of cargo cult, if you like. Interesting point you make about the graffiti that can be found. These people were proud of their work and wanted others to know it was them who built them.

        Interestingly, none of this "graffiti" can be found anywhere on the original larger Pyramids because they didn't build them.
        I have heard to the contrary that plenty of "graffiti" can be found on the larger pyramids blocks signed by many work gangs.

        The building of the great pyramids is so amazing I can see why many people would doubt that humans actually built them.

        TL
        Signature

        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003287].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Steve - mortar was common. Gypsum was used for mortar as far back as 5,000 years ago - to our knowledge anyway. Maybe longer that we don't know about yet. There is mortar in the pyramids construction. I have never heard about anything in that mortar that they don't understand.

    They have found an inner chamber and although the passage is too small for a human (which is another mystery in itself: why the chamber and why such a small passage) they were able to send in some sort of equipment and get pictures. There's writing of some sort on the walls that they are analyzing - deciphering, etc. I'll be very interested in finding out more about that. That was last year sometime, I believe. It's frustrating that it takes so long to get more info on findings like that.

    And you are right. If there was no context for an explorer to go by and they started finding our civilization a few thousand years from now we'd be one strange civilization to figure out - other than we've left one hell of a lot of literature to help them out with that one.

    Bravo - I didn't look at your film. I have no clue what the guy said and how far on or off base he is. I only know that just about anything is possible when it comes to past cultures. Unnatural artifacts have been found embedded in rock. There are ruins of a 200,000 year old civilization in Africa. Every year discoveries are pushing back the human time line. Every year scientists find things that the officials denounce or hide. The Smithsonian is famous for just "losing" incredibly mysterious finds. People were called lunatics for believing in UFO's and now high level officials and documents are saying that we were lied to, or just not told.

    My take on things is just that anything is possible. Are the things the guy in your film says real or is it just BS? I'm not going to be the one to make that judgment. You believe it. Just keep watching around and see if anyone backs it up - just like I watch to see if any one ever breaks any news about the Sphinx. Find scientists, get to know them, and talk to them about the things that interest you. You might still not get all the answers - but sometimes nobody really has them. There are things that the best we can do is make guesses about and go with whoever's guess makes the most logical sense at the time.

    There's a new theory on the original purpose of Stonehenge and other stone circles now, too. -- They were mining schools. How about that? People had to know how to mine all that lime and gypsum they were using so long ago.

    Just when you watch documentaries, watch them with a grain of salt. I see a lot of crap about the North star. I can line MY house up to the North Star - but there's nothing freaky going on here. Steve can line his house up to the North Star - and there's nothing freaky.....well, maybe there is..forget it.

    Not saying the ancients didn't line those things up. Three pyramids that align with the belt stars so perfectly most likely is NOT a coincidence. They had religions then, too. There's a lot of people with whacked theories, though - some of em sit right on boards of Achaeology. LOL. Sometimes the best we can do is watch each documentary with a critical eye and choose the theories that we find most logical to us. Sometimes things finally get an explanation that everyone concedes on and sometimes they don't. That's what makes science fascinating.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4001442].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Steve - mortar was common. Gypsum was used for mortar as far back as 5,000 years ago - to our knowledge anyway. Maybe longer that we don't know about yet. There is mortar in the pyramids construction. I have never heard about anything in that mortar that they don't understand.
      OH, I KNOW mortar is a VERY old concept! I just thought pyramids were one of the MANY cases like this where I heard that no mortar was used.

      My take on things is just that anything is possible. Are the things the guy in your film says real or is it just BS? I'm not going to be the one to make that judgment. You believe it. Just keep watching around and see if anyone backs it up - just like I watch to see if any one ever breaks any news about the Sphinx. Find scientists, get to know them, and talk to them about the things that interest you. You might still not get all the answers - but sometimes nobody really has them. There are things that the best we can do is make guesses about and go with whoever's guess makes the most logical sense at the time.

      There's a new theory on the original purpose of Stonehenge and other stone circles now, too. -- They were mining schools. How about that? People had to know how to mine all that lime and gypsum they were using so long ago.

      Just when you watch documentaries, watch them with a grain of salt. I see a lot of crap about the North star. I can line MY house up to the North Star - but there's nothing freaky going on here. Steve can line his house up to the North Star - and there's nothing freaky.....well, maybe there is..forget it.

      Not saying the ancients didn't line those things up. Three pyramids that align with the belt stars so perfectly most likely is NOT a coincidence. They had religions then, too. There's a lot of people with whacked theories, though - some of em sit right on boards of Achaeology. LOL. Sometimes the best we can do is watch each documentary with a critical eye and choose the theories that we find most logical to us. Sometimes things finally get an explanation that everyone concedes on and sometimes they don't. That's what makes science fascinating.
      Regarding the north star.... HEY, why would it be freaky if I did, but not with you!

      Just YESTERDAY I saw an episode of pawnstars, and they had a poster come into their shop about one of the biggest man hunts in history, and there were only 4 known copies left! They searched the COUNTRY for him, john Wilkes Booth, and it took like 6 days to find him. How many posters could have been printed? 10s of thousands? 100s of thousands? And STILL, there are only FOUR? And it was only a bit over 140 years! Disk crashes happen and lose data all the time. I ALREADY have media at home that now may be VERY hard to read. I EVEN have some that may be destroyed if such an attempt is made.

      We don't know enough about ancient cultures. The egyptians are credited with INVENTING paper! Who's to say that they DIDN'T lay down VERY detailed accounts? Maybe they are stored well in some clay urns still sealed and MAYBE waiting to be found. Maybe they WERE found, and used to wrap drugs, or painted over. Maybe, like the dead see scrolls and planet of the apes, they were broken from some mishap and succumbed to the environment. YEAH, I KNOW that much of that was parchment. That was ALSO affected, and merely reinforces my point. HECK, do we really have decent recipes? Do we have diaries? Do we have shopping lists? Seriously! For a culture that supposedly had paper, we have VERY little evidence they did anything there.

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003442].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        OH, I KNOW mortar is a VERY old concept! I just thought pyramids were one of the MANY cases like this where I heard that no mortar was used.



        Regarding the north star.... HEY, why would it be freaky if I did, but not with you!

        Just YESTERDAY I saw an episode of pawnstars, and they had a poster come into their shop about one of the biggest man hunts in history, and there were only 4 known copies left! They searched the COUNTRY for him, john Wilkes Booth, and it took like 6 days to find him. How many posters could have been printed? 10s of thousands? 100s of thousands? And STILL, there are only FOUR? And it was only a bit over 140 years! Disk crashes happen and lose data all the time. I ALREADY have media at home that now may be VERY hard to read. I EVEN have some that may be destroyed if such an attempt is made.

        We don't know enough about ancient cultures. The egyptians are credited with INVENTING paper! Who's to say that they DIDN'T lay down VERY detailed accounts? Maybe they are stored well in some clay urns still sealed and MAYBE waiting to be found. Maybe they WERE found, and used to wrap drugs, or painted over.


        Maybe, like the dead see scrolls and planet of the apes, they were broken from some mishap and succumbed to the environment.

        YEAH, I KNOW that much of that was parchment. That was ALSO affected, and merely reinforces my point. HECK, do we really have decent recipes? Do we have diaries? Do we have shopping lists?

        Seriously! For a culture that supposedly had paper, we have VERY little evidence they did anything there.

        Steve
        Planet of the apes??

        LOL!

        I saw a special on TV and the archeologist concentrated on the everyday life of the Egyptians and he says there were plenty of "papers" floating around detailing all aspects of ancient Egyptian life.

        If literacy was more widespread we would have a lot more than mostly the writings of the priests and the upper classes.

        All The Best!!

        TL
        Signature

        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003546].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Planet of the apes??

          LOL!

          I saw a special on TV and the archeologist concentrated on the everyday life of the Egyptians and he says there were plenty of "papers" floating around detailing all aspects of ancient Egyptian life.

          If literacy was more widespread we would have a lot more than mostly the writings of the priests and the upper classes.

          All The Best!!

          TL
          Maybe I should have elaborated, but on the original planet of the apes, there were three astronauts(as I recall), and one disintegrated because her case was destroyed. They were in cases to hibernate over the long journey. My point is simply that things tend to degrade over time.

          As for literacy, who knows? If some poor group really couldn't learn to read it, etc... they could at least write their own way. It wasn't like they couldn't speak. Supposedly various languages in Europe started that way.

          Steve
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4005280].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        OH, I KNOW mortar is a VERY old concept! I just thought pyramids were one of the MANY cases like this where I heard that no mortar was used.



        Regarding the north star.... HEY, why would it be freaky if I did, but not with you!


        Steve
        Steve - I was making a joke. Guess I need to hit the smilies more often.

        I'm not sure whether mortar was used between stones like grout - I'm thinking not - but it was used on the walls.


        Bravo - there are a lot of things if people knew, they'd be re-writing history. The Grand Canyon is one of them and I know a scientist who had some severe threats because of things he found out. Something went on in the US way back God knows how long ago that someone is not allowing any information through about. I can't even get any lip service on it and I'm well known in the field for not spilling anything I'm not specifically told I can spill.

        We live in a world where the populations know only what the money and power allows us to know - and much of it is wrong. Internet is helping a tad with that, but it won't solve the whole problem. If you figure out a way to do it - let us know because I know a lot of people aren't willing to risk their lives to do it.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4004353].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Steve - mortar was common. Gypsum was used for mortar as far back as 5,000 years ago - to our knowledge anyway. Maybe longer that we don't know about yet. There is mortar in the pyramids construction. I have never heard about anything in that mortar that they don't understand.

      They have found an inner chamber and although the passage is too small for a human (which is another mystery in itself: why the chamber and why such a small passage) they were able to send in some sort of equipment and get pictures. There's writing of some sort on the walls that they are analyzing - deciphering, etc. I'll be very interested in finding out more about that. That was last year sometime, I believe. It's frustrating that it takes so long to get more info on findings like that.

      And you are right. If there was no context for an explorer to go by and they started finding our civilization a few thousand years from now we'd be one strange civilization to figure out - other than we've left one hell of a lot of literature to help them out with that one.

      Bravo - I didn't look at your film. I have no clue what the guy said and how far on or off base he is. I only know that just about anything is possible when it comes to past cultures. Unnatural artifacts have been found embedded in rock. There are ruins of a 200,000 year old civilization in Africa. Every year discoveries are pushing back the human time line. Every year scientists find things that the officials denounce or hide. The Smithsonian is famous for just "losing" incredibly mysterious finds. People were called lunatics for believing in UFO's and now high level officials and documents are saying that we were lied to, or just not told.

      My take on things is just that anything is possible. Are the things the guy in your film says real or is it just BS? I'm not going to be the one to make that judgment. You believe it. Just keep watching around and see if anyone backs it up - just like I watch to see if any one ever breaks any news about the Sphinx. Find scientists, get to know them, and talk to them about the things that interest you. You might still not get all the answers - but sometimes nobody really has them. There are things that the best we can do is make guesses about and go with whoever's guess makes the most logical sense at the time.

      There's a new theory on the original purpose of Stonehenge and other stone circles now, too. -- They were mining schools. How about that? People had to know how to mine all that lime and gypsum they were using so long ago.

      Just when you watch documentaries, watch them with a grain of salt. I see a lot of crap about the North star. I can line MY house up to the North Star - but there's nothing freaky going on here. Steve can line his house up to the North Star - and there's nothing freaky.....well, maybe there is..forget it.

      Not saying the ancients didn't line those things up. Three pyramids that align with the belt stars so perfectly most likely is NOT a coincidence. They had religions then, too. There's a lot of people with whacked theories, though - some of em sit right on boards of Achaeology. LOL. Sometimes the best we can do is watch each documentary with a critical eye and choose the theories that we find most logical to us. Sometimes things finally get an explanation that everyone concedes on and sometimes they don't. That's what makes science fascinating.
      I agree with everything you say here HeySal.

      One thing I've always found curious is the rapid advancement in technology since the Roswell "incident".

      And, something on a more philosophical note; The universe is infinite, and in infinity anything is possible. If the odds of something happening are 1,000,000,000/1, what is the value of 1,000,000,000 in infinity? Numbers have no meaning. Odds have no meaning.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4027637].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Bravo - I got curious and took a spin through the videos (all 4). The guy posts some very accurate questions - and a few that aren't. If it was all as simple as some seem to think it was, these things wouldn't be great wonders of the world. There are a lot of scientists who don't agree with the going theory - but at the time there is nothing else that explains a lot of it either. I'm waiting to see what they find out about the writing in those chambers reveals - if WE are ever told.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003360].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      I doubt we'll ever be told. If the secrets are buried deep down somewhere in the great Pyramids and are ever revealed, the history books will have to be re-written and the world's social structure will have to be reshaped.

      This would probably be a bigger feat than building the great Pyramids themselves.


      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Bravo - I got curious and took a spin through the videos (all 4). The guy posts some very accurate questions - and a few that aren't. If it was all as simple as some seem to think it was, these things wouldn't be great wonders of the world. There are a lot of scientists who don't agree with the going theory - but at the time there is nothing else that explains a lot of it either. I'm waiting to see what they find out about the writing in those chambers reveals - if WE are ever told.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003448].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I have an easy solution to all this. Let's dismantle one of the pyramids brick by brick. I'm sure we'll find the clues we need then.
    Signature

    Free Webinar - 5 Steps to Getting Targeted Traffic
    Unlocking Your Website's Profit Potential: Quick and Easy Steps to Generating More Traffic and Sales - Learn More By Clicking Here

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003433].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    If the secrets are buried deep down somewhere in the great Pyramids and are ever revealed,...

    ... the history books will have to be re-written and the world's social structure will have to be reshaped.

    Why??


    TL
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003612].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Because I believe that there were civilizations before us on this planet that were more advanced than we are today and were wiped out several times over the course of a couple of Million years or so.

      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      If the secrets are buried deep down somewhere in the great Pyramids and are ever revealed,...

      ... the history books will have to be re-written and the world's social structure will have to be reshaped.

      Why??


      TL
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003627].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        Because I believe that there were civilizations before us on this planet that were more advanced than we are today and were wiped out several times over the course of a couple of Million years or so.

        Do you have any hard evidence regarding these ancient civilizations??

        Lots of people want to believe in someplace called Atlantis but not one piece of hard evidence has been found.

        I can understand your disbelief at the building of the pyramids but...

        - They knew what they were doing through hundreds of years of trial and error.

        - They had a large healthy workforce.

        - They organized the workforce very efficiently.

        - The climate was on their side.

        - They worked like a bunch of very organized ants.

        - They were long term projects of 20-30 years.

        - There is plenty of proof that they had the scientific knowledge to accomplish the task.

        - The people of the nation were per-pressured into helping the Pharaohs build their pyramids.

        - A very common misconception is that they were built by slaves.

        - Living quarters and graveyards of the workers have been found near the pyramids.

        - Workers were partly paid with beer.

        - Building a great pyramid was a huge, huge undertaking but I'm confident it was done by fellow human beings.

        TL
        Signature

        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003839].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          Of course I don't. I am a grounded person. I have spent the last 20 odd years of my life, working my fao as roofing carpenter. I have worked in the U.S, Ireland, Canada, Germany, Holland, **** me, I am like what's his face? "I've been every where man". I have been drinking. Excuse me, get back to you later on. Siesta time

          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Do you have any hard evidence regarding these ancient civilizations??

          Lots of people want to believe in someplace called Atlantis but not one piece of hard evidence has been found.

          I can understand your disbelief at the building of the pyramids but...

          - They knew what they were doing through hundreds of years of trial and error.

          - They had a large healthy workforce.

          - They organized the workforce very efficiently.

          - The climate was on their side.

          - They worked like a bunch of very organized ants.

          - They were long term projects of 20-30 years.

          - There is plenty of proof that they had the scientific knowledge to accomplish the task.

          - The people of the nation were per-pressured into helping the Pharaohs build their pyramids.

          - A very common misconception is that they were built by slaves.

          - Living quarters and graveyards of the workers have been found near the pyramids.

          - Workers were partly paid with beer.

          - Building a great pyramid was a huge, huge undertaking but I'm confident it was done by fellow human beings.

          TL
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4005285].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lou Diamond
    Hello,
    keep in mind this was before television and people actually did something.
    Signature

    Something new soon.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003651].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    There are many interesting theories about this now. I'd recommend that people check out videos by David Wilcock. John Anthony West has also done lots of research on the pyramids, along with Graham Hancock. I know many people consider this stuff "fringe science," but to me the most farfetched theories are more plausible than the notion that all of these structures were built by manual labor, using levers and pulleys. Aside from the problem of how they did it, there's the question of why, and the sophisticated astronomical knowledge that these ancient people had. It's not just Egypt, either...you can look at structures all over the world, from Mexico to Easter Island to the British Isles and see comparable things.
    Signature
    Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003718].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    Want to chew on something truly bizarre and directly related to this topic?

    There is a race of people described in Genesis 6 of the old testament known as the Nephilim. The original Hebrew of the same text described them as "giants".

    For the last 2000 years Bible scholars have hidden this because they did not want the world to know that the Bible actually claims there were giants living amongst men who then mated with humans.

    Tradition has it that these "giants" were fallen angels who took to procreating with humans.

    Later translations of the Bible have all but rewritten Genesis 6:1-4 in an attempt to cover it up.

    But the ancient Hebrew is the original text. And it clearly states giants that originated from God had not only lived amongst mankind but also mated successfully with them.

    It seems God was displeased with this pairing and wiped the whole lot of them out via the flood. Which He then started over with Mankind with Noah.

    I mention this not to start a religious discussion which is prohibited, but only to point out that the ancients collaborate the content of these four videos.
    Signature

    Free Webinar - 5 Steps to Getting Targeted Traffic
    Unlocking Your Website's Profit Potential: Quick and Easy Steps to Generating More Traffic and Sales - Learn More By Clicking Here

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003742].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

      Want to chew on something truly bizarre and directly related to this topic?

      There is a race of people described in Genesis 6 of the old testament known as the Nephilim. The original Hebrew of the same text described them as "giants".

      For the last 2000 years Bible scholars have hidden this because they did not want the world to know that the Bible actually claims there were giants living amongst men who then mated with humans.

      Tradition has it that these "giants" were fallen angels who took to procreating with humans.

      Later translations of the Bible have all but rewritten Genesis 6:1-4 in an attempt to cover it up.

      But the ancient Hebrew is the original text. And it clearly states giants that originated from God had not only lived amongst mankind but also mated successfully with them.

      It seems God was displeased with this pairing and wiped the whole lot of them out via the flood. Which He then started over with Mankind with Noah.

      I mention this not to start a religious discussion which is prohibited, but only to point out that the ancients collaborate the content of these four videos.
      Someone could easily say that the book you mentioned is nothing more than a collection of historic stories of a particular people along with a lot of myth mongering etc.

      But I didn't say it.


      TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4003865].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Someone could easily say that the book you mentioned is nothing more than a collection of historic stories of a particular people along with a lot of myth mongering etc.

        But I didn't say it.


        TL
        That being said they are still historic documents. Like I mentioned they collaborate the premise behind the videos. Was not making a claim to their divinity. But it is very good that you are so sure of yourself.
        Signature

        Free Webinar - 5 Steps to Getting Targeted Traffic
        Unlocking Your Website's Profit Potential: Quick and Easy Steps to Generating More Traffic and Sales - Learn More By Clicking Here

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4004042].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

          That being said they are still historic documents. Like I mentioned they collaborate the premise behind the videos. Was not making a claim to their divinity. But it is very good that you are so sure of yourself.
          I am.


          TL
          Signature

          "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4004155].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    Roaddog built the pyramids before he traveled in time to our time sphere.
    Signature

    Project HERE.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4004559].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      Roaddog built the pyramids before he traveled in time to our time sphere.
      This is the first response that has made any sense...
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4004619].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      Roaddog built the pyramids before he traveled in time to our time sphere.
      Well thanks for the vote of confidence, Tbird, but I couldn't have built the pyramids. I was too busy watering The Hanging Gardens of Babylon at the time.

      That Nebuchadnezzar was a real stickler too. Once in the morn, once at night.

      This stuff is pretty mind bending sometimes. We have The Batteries of Baghdad, The Spherical Stones in Costa Rica, Easter Island, little space shuttle looking artifacts, etc..could go on and on. There is a ton of unexplained 'phenomena" on Earth.

      I was reading something the other day (ok I had someone read it to me) about how they found evidence of something being built over millions of years ago. That's long before man was supposed to have been buillding here.
      It was done with carbon dating and the 'tool' was found inside a rock formation from that era. If I can find that story I'll link to it in here.

      edit: not the article I was looking for, same story


      Just because WE don't understand how these people did it certainly doesn't make them the one's that were confused, does it?

      Personally I think we live in far more 'confused' times, than back then.

      Whenever I have 'stepped back in time', by that I mean some remote province of a 'third world' country. I have found that they have absolutely amazing ways of getting things accomplished.


      When man HAS to, he can accomplish amazing things.


      other mysteries
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4004959].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author sparckyz
    It was aliens, didn't you ever watch stargate sg1 lol
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4004928].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
      Overall, what you see in sci fi and fantasy movies is probably closer to the truth than what you see on the news and in history books.


      Originally Posted by sparckyz View Post

      It was aliens, didn't you ever watch stargate sg1 lol
      Signature
      Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4005134].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author AllanVans
        The door ways to the Pyramids are ten times taller than the human race today and the bricks are to heavy for people our size to even think about lifting them, not only that but most Pyramids are built directly under particular stars, the math that we use today cant even come close to the math that was being used back in those days and one more thing, back in those days poeple use to use more than 10% of their brain un like us being shut down by the food we eat and so on think about it.......
        Signature
        To all you success, Yours Truly Allan http://www.allanholder.com
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4051766].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by AllanVans View Post

          The door ways to the Pyramids are ten times taller than the human race today and the bricks are to heavy for people our size to even think about lifting them, not only that but most Pyramids are built directly under particular stars, the math that we use today cant even come close to the math that was being used back in those days and one more thing, back in those days poeple use to use more than 10% of their brain un like us being shut down by the food we eat and so on think about it.......
          Think about that for a moment. That statement contradicts itself.

          How can you say their math was better? The only way you can say that is if you have a way to measure or quantify it. AND to do that, you have to have the math that's AT LEAST as good as theirs was.

          Think about it.

          Furthermore, the "10% of the brain" has been dosproven time and time again. It simply isn't true. But, even if it were true (which it isn't), how in the world could you measure their level of brain activity?

          All the best,
          Michael
          Signature

          "Ich bin en fuego!"
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088483].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Why would aliens assemble 2,3000,000 blocks?

      Originally Posted by sparckyz View Post

      It was aliens, didn't you ever watch stargate sg1 lol
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4006918].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        Why would aliens assemble 2,3000,000 blocks?
        On stargate, the pyramids weren't pyramids ANYWAY! They were SPACESHIPS! When the gods left, they took the spaceships with them. I don't know if they ever explained all the others.

        BTW on SG1, the creatures that built everything, including those HUGE ships, were little more than small snakes! GRANTED, they took hominids as hosts, but it was all attributed to THEM!

        As for the ants statement GOOD POINT! Do you have ANY idea how hard it must be to build an ant hill, take care of the nursery, and possibly the FARM!?!?!? And to search and forage, and bring the stuff back. WOW! I mean THINK of it. The average ant on the average hill can move maybe one grain of sand! GRANTED, they might come across a very small stone and move THAT, but usually just one GRAIN! And to cut leaves and use them to farm fungus? GRANTED humans might not be able to do some of that to scale, but that is often what tools are for.

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4007433].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author sparckyz
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          On stargate, the pyramids weren't pyramids ANYWAY! They were SPACESHIPS! When the gods left, they took the spaceships with them. I don't know if they ever explained all the others.

          BTW on SG1, the creatures that built everything, including those HUGE ships, were little more than small snakes! GRANTED, they took hominids as hosts, but it was all attributed to THEM!

          As for the ants statement GOOD POINT! Do you have ANY idea how hard it must be to build an ant hill, take care of the nursery, and possibly the FARM!?!?!? And to search and forage, and bring the stuff back. WOW! I mean THINK of it. The average ant on the average hill can move maybe one grain of sand! GRANTED, they might come across a very small stone and move THAT, but usually just one GRAIN! And to cut leaves and use them to farm fungus? GRANTED humans might not be able to do some of that to scale, but that is often what tools are for.

          Steve
          Actually, IIRC in SG1 the pyramids were landing pads for the alien space ships
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4009371].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by sparckyz View Post

            Actually, IIRC in SG1 the pyramids were landing pads for the alien space ships
            Don't you remember in Stargate, the movie, where the ship took off? In Stargate SG1, look at the fighting sequences in space, and the landing sequences. OK, this site says we are BOTH right: Pyramid - Stargate Wiki

            Pyramids are structures, triangular in shape with a square base and usually made from stone. They appear to have been first created by the Goa'uld due to their use of the Ha'tak class ships. It is possible that they used the local population as slave labor to build these structures.



            Function

            The main function of a pyramid is that it is used as a landing site for the Goa'uld Ha'taks. Due to this, most pyramids were built with Ring Transporters to allow transport between the planet and the ship. (Stargate) (SG1: "Double Jeopardy", "Off the Grid") Another possible function is a place of worship. This is due to the Goa'uld making public appearances inside or outside of the pyramid. (Stargate) (SG1: "Moebius, Part 2", "The Ties That Bind")
            List of starships in Stargate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            Ha'tak





            A Ha'tak in space, from "Enemies".
            A Ha'tak or Goa'uld mothership is a large starship used by the Goa'uld. In the series, it usually refers to a class of ship consisting of a superstructure with a large, golden tetrahedron or square pyramid (i.e. Ra's Mother ship) at the center, first shown onscreen briefly in "Singularity". The word "ha'tak", first used in the episode "Exodus", literally means "pyramid ship", and so can also refer generically to all the types of Goa'uld motherships
            Steve
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4010132].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              Don't you remember in Stargate, the movie, where the ship took off? In Stargate SG1, look at the fighting sequences in space, and the landing sequences. OK, this site says we are BOTH right: Pyramid - Stargate Wiki



              List of starships in Stargate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



              Steve
              Which you are
              The Ha'tak's where designed to land on pyramids and hence where pyramid shaped.
              Not that I've ever spent countless hours watching reruns of SG1 and SG Atlantis:rolleyes:
              Signature

              Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
              Getting old ain't for sissy's
              As you are I was, as I am you will be
              You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4010420].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jacktackett
      Originally Posted by sparckyz View Post

      It was aliens, didn't you ever watch stargate sg1 lol
      It was the goa'uld folks, 'nuff said.
      Signature
      Let's get Tim the kidney he needs!HELP Tim
      Mega Monster WSO for KimW http://ow.ly/4JdHm


      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4030246].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MagicShovels
    Signature
    extraGroupon.com - 50% off Groupon Deals - Get an additional discount off of already existing Groupon deals. Savings on top of Savings :)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4005284].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4007041].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Interesting concept, with so many conspiracy theories going about that's an itneresting point of view, but I like to think humanity is more creative than later generations give them credit for
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4008192].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Maybe these guys built them.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4008586].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Maybe these guys built them.

      Sure they did.


      TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4008745].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Maybe these guys built them.

      LOL. Priceless. Hahahaha. Well if the modern industrial revolution didn't change the world enough -- there's always photoshop to rely on.

      Seriously though, this kind of sh** makes me furious. There's enough really and truly unexplainable stuff in the world without this type of crap going around. No wonder people learn to reject the idea of real anomalies.

      I know a scientist that discovered 2 mummies in the Western US. He turned them in to the Smithsonian and they've never been seen or heard of again. They were somewhere between 8 and 9 feet tall. So what do you see all of the sudden on the net after these discoveries start turning up around the planet? Photoshopped crap of 40 foot tall human remains. So now you say "giants" and people laugh and hand you a roll of tinfoil.

      Makes it real easy to wonder if it's not the institutions that hide info on the REAL finds that perpetuate this kind of crap to inhibit curiosity about the REAL stuff.

      The guy that was let into that cave in Mexico to photograph the largest crystals ever found actually allowed me to post several of his pics on my site once - it was a premier for most of those pictures. Why did I get to premier his private pictures? Because a certain institution was trying to strong-arm him to hand them over without so much as a dime compensation for him. I got the pics in a revenge move.

      Now had those crystals been something that would have revolutionized our idea of our world instead of just an interesting anomaly, how much do you want to bet that every yahoo with photoshop and a voova against the idea carried in those crystals would have been photoshopping pics so as to discredit the real ones? Enough photoshopping and when the real stuff surfaces everyone just turns around and says "yeah, right, real funny."
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4009259].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Heysal, were these photoshopped as well? These things date back to 14,000 BC.

    The stones in Puma Punku are made up of granite, and diorite, and the only stone that is harder that those two, is the diamond.

    These things date back to the stone age. Some of these suckers weigh 800 tons. Or 800,000 Kilos or 1763698.1 pounds. Cavemen built these things?








    [IMG]http://api.ning.com/files/gX3HeYgD8bhGAKrMHhcd*KR3Dm80HTF4cW9PlG40oLAHTxYZjO AJbA020jduSCodRI3gBGyXJBDlIfeLb156jEa3ZvcgVXA5/PumaPunku011Small.jpg[/IMG]







    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4009329].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Heysal, were these photoshopped as well?
    Damn, Bravo - learn to size the pics before you post em, eh?

    No - those are not photoshopped. Those are actual photos. In fact the one of the drawing of the guys in white - it's those kind of finds that inspire idiots to photoshop pics like the other one. Maybe you've never browsed my online newsletter archives. I'm not going to be the one who tells you that all of this stuff is fairy tales.

    I'm not sure what kind of rock that is in these pics. A block of soapstone wouldn't take much stretch of imagination when you say only 10,000 years. Limestone starts to get amazing - granite, well I know they were shaping back then - but how the hell they did it is a mystery to me no matter what the experts say. Um....I'm a rockhound. I know what it takes to cut rock - and to sculpt it. It's not easy if you are working in rock that's harder than 3 on Moh's scale unless you are working with carbide or diamond tip lapidary equipment. If you look back to previous posts you will also find I'm not the one who feels that the "official" theory stands up to the firing test - it's just the only one that there is right now. When you find a more PROVABLE theory, they will drop that one off the charts real fast because NOBODY is really comfy with it that is actually in the science field. Most won't project an unaccepted theory they can't back up with facts because it's a good way to lose a nice salary.

    That rock in those pics appears to be granite of some sort? Maybe sandstone, but the color of some of it is wrong for that - the redder blocks may be sandstone.

    Okay - the only way I know of to shape a rock that hard without metal (we now use carbide tools) is by using a grinding process. You crush a harder rock, then mix it with oil. They use olive oil usually now but I'm thinking about any oil will do -- then you apply the paste to the rock and rub it with a properly shaped tool to wear the rock into the shape you want. That's how we sculpt gemstones now -- the new faceted stones that have engraving in them are sometimes made via this method. Diamond or corundum dust is mixed with olive oil and wood tools are used to grind the patterns. Lapidary tools facet the stone - sometimes dentist tools are used in caving hard gems like topaz or sapphire. And we now use lasers, too. Okay - I'm not talking BIG stuff now -- just HARD stones.

    Now If I am right and those are granite blocks - any use of crushed gem (which is the only thing that would be hard enough and actually available to them - would be readily evident because it would have left traces. As far as I know, there are no traces found. Also as far as we know gemstone wasn't used back that far. Maybe around 8 thousand years and that's pushing the bar - as well as the type of gemstone in use. Copper has been dated back that far now but I would laugh in someone's face who seriously thinks people were going to cut granite with copper. It would be a riot to watch them try it, though.

    Steel first came around earlier than they thought but not that early - Iron was attributed to the Hittites, but the Hatties are now known to have had iron - even then it takes some very intense processing to get a steel blade out of iron - many heatings and beatings -- and we've never found steel artifacts, even ones that look accidentally made into steel, that date back to more than half that age. And now I have to use the kicker -- that WE know of. If someone else knows of anything else, they sure aren't telling about it. So you say huge soapstone blocks, I'll say, okay kewl. You say granite blocks and my reaction is automatically WTF. I'm not sure what the stone is in those pics - it's not granite - at least I don't think so. I don't see any quartz in it. Wonder how hard a stone that stuff is.

    But - after all that, yadda, yadda and so forth. You have real pics in your last post.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4009622].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MrCaracicatriz
    Have you guys heard of Zecharia Sitchin? He was a very intriguing man who devoted his live to learning and understanding ancient civilizations and their languages and was supposedly able to translate several ancient languages including 6,000 year old Sumerian texts.
    So from my basic understanding.. archeologists and museums and such would send this guy all sorts of different ancient tablets for him to translate and he would supposedly do just that. However, his translations were mind-blowingly insane. Claiming all different kinds of things. Here's a clip which scratches the surface of his theories: (Frustrating.. it won't let me post the link due to my low post count. The title of the video is "Were the Anunnaki the Nephilim in the Bible?" on Youtube for anyone who is curious.)


    After reading this thread, I found it very interesting that although this video bounces off the walls a bit.. it includes many topics discussed such as giants for example. Personally I'm not quite sure what to make of Sitchin's work, although I must admit that it is quite interesting... as far-fetched and Sci Fi as it seems. Basically, either he was honestly translating these ancient texts or he was a SUPER troll.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4011015].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
    This schtupf is way to addicting!
    Please don't post any more
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4011280].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Zecharia Sitchin might be nuts - but that is about the official translation of the cuniform tablets. Take it how you want to.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4011762].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Wow - just watched your videos Bravo - it IS granite. Holy cow. Nope - no way those blocks happened with ancient tools. Sorry, official stories are done for me. I know how hard it is to cut granite.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4011855].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Granite and diorite I believe. The only way I think they could have created these structures is by somehow melting the stone and putting the molten granite into casts.
      You obviously know more about stone than I do but I believe that granite's melting point is around 3000F.
      Here are a few links to some pictures that support this theory.

      http://members.tripod.com/~kon_artz/...llant_wall.jpg

      http://members.tripod.com/~kon_artz/...llant_prot.jpg

      http://members.tripod.com/~kon_artz/...s/sacsdet1.jpg

      You seem to have an interest in this subject, so perhaps this might be worth your while reading.

      Mysteries of the ancient cultures: Stone technology

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Wow - just watched your videos Bravo - it IS granite. Holy cow. Nope - no way those blocks happened with ancient tools. Sorry, official stories are done for me. I know how hard it is to cut granite.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4011913].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        Granite and diorite I believe. The only way I think they could have created these structures is by somehow melting the stone and putting the molten granite into casts.
        You obviously know more about stone than I do but I believe that granite's melting point is around 3000F.
        Here are a few links to some pictures that support this theory.

        http://members.tripod.com/~kon_artz/cultures/ollant_wall.jpg

        http://members.tripod.com/~kon_artz/cultures/ollant_prot.jpg

        http://members.tripod.com/~kon_artz/cultures/sacsdet1.jpg

        You seem to have an interest in this subject, so perhaps this might be worth your while reading.

        Mysteries of the ancient cultures: Stone technology

        They weren't going to melt them - unless they had some sort of heating technology we know nothing about, too. It wouldn't have taken the Hittites so long to make steel from iron if they were able to get that kind of heat - at least around 4,000 BC. You would see the melt anyway. There would be no question - the rock would be morphed at the melting points. I wouldn't even ascribe that kind of accuracy at those sizes to lapidary. Today, if I wanted to cut something that perfectly at that size - I'd use a laser.

        That granite - I looked at it and didn't think it was granite because I couldn't see any quartz in it. I've not looked at any of your links yet (will when I get time) but the only way they would have had access to heat to melt rocks is if there was a source of molten lava in the area - they could have channeled it into molds I guess - but they would have needed access to hot lava. Ever see anything that indicates there was a lava stream around there back about 10 - 15,000 years ago?


        MR C ---
        They had batteries. Might as well have had something to use them for, eh? The batteries are in some museum over there - don't remember which one.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4012262].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          I'm not one to bump my own threads but this is a topic that just won't let me go.

          By the way, I did a bit of research and there are 38 volcanoes in Bolivia but none in the vicinity of Puma Punku.

          Puma Punku is Thousands of feet above sea level and there is nothing there besides grass and wasteland.

          Is there any way that Granite can be pulverized and re-formed like concrete?
          This sh.t wasn/t carved or cut with laser, it must have somehow been molded.



          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          They weren't going to melt them - unless they had some sort of heating technology we know nothing about, too. It wouldn't have taken the Hittites so long to make steel from iron if they were able to get that kind of heat - at least around 4,000 BC. You would see the melt anyway. There would be no question - the rock would be morphed at the melting points. I wouldn't even ascribe that kind of accuracy at those sizes to lapidary. Today, if I wanted to cut something that perfectly at that size - I'd use a laser.

          That granite - I looked at it and didn't think it was granite because I couldn't see any quartz in it. I've not looked at any of your links yet (will when I get time) but the only way they would have had access to heat to melt rocks is if there was a source of molten lava in the area - they could have channeled it into molds I guess - but they would have needed access to hot lava. Ever see anything that indicates there was a lava stream around there back about 10 - 15,000 years ago?


          MR C ---
          They had batteries. Might as well have had something to use them for, eh? The batteries are in some museum over there - don't remember which one.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4022394].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MrCaracicatriz
    Yeah.. Bravo, I just watched your videos too. 0_____0"
    Ancient Egyptians possibly had light bulbs?!
    Consider me mind-blown.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4012093].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Yeah you could pulverize it and concrete it with something else - gypsum. There is no way that a geologist wouldn't know that the rock was processed, though. Granite is melted in the asthenosphere when it is subducted, then coughed up later as lava. That's the usual method of melting granite. Serious. I wasn't suggesting that the ancients would actually do that - it was just an off the wall statement of possibility. It sure wasn't being worked via any method we're familiar with.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4022859].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Heysal, just curious. How do you think these things were made?


      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Yeah you could pulverize it and concrete it with something else - gypsum. There is no way that a geologist wouldn't know that the rock was processed, though. Granite is melted in the asthenosphere when it is subducted, then coughed up later as lava. That's the usual method of melting granite. Serious. I wasn't suggesting that the ancients would actually do that - it was just an off the wall statement of possibility. It sure wasn't being worked via any method we're familiar with.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4022904].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        Heysal, just curious. How do you think these things were made?
        Yeah right Bravo. If I knew that I sure as hell wouldn't be writing stinking articles to supplement the new computer I have to get.

        Not even a freaking clue. All I know is they didn't have quarries full of guys with copper age tools cutting granite blocks that weigh as much or more than the average truck. That's just silly.
        Signature

        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4029497].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Yeah right Bravo. If I knew that I sure as hell wouldn't be writing stinking articles to supplement the new computer I have to get.

          Not even a freaking clue. All I know is they didn't have quarries full of guys with copper age tools cutting granite blocks that weigh as much or more than the average truck. That's just silly.
          That's because they didn't use copper tools to cut the stones. If I remember correctly, they used granite drills to drill holes, then filled the holes with cloth. Once filled with cloth, they poured water into the holes, the cloth absorbed the water and expanded, cracking the stones.

          These drill holes are still evident in the quarries where the stones were cut.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4029812].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            That's because they didn't use copper tools to cut the stones. If I remember correctly, they used granite drills to drill holes, then filled the holes with cloth. Once filled with cloth, they poured water into the holes, the cloth absorbed the water and expanded, cracking the stones.

            These drill holes are still evident in the quarries where the stones were cut.

            So, ya think they used granite tools to cut granite? You have some granite in the hills out where you are, Kurt. Have at it. Then when you get tired of trying to cut granite with granite -- come on back in and I'll tell you that you can't cut a stone with any stone that isn't HARDER than that stone. You aren't going to cut borax with borax - ya aren't going to cut quartz with quartz - and you aren't going to cut granite with granite.

            If you want to tell me they cut sandstone, limestone etc. with granite - that might fly. But granite with granite? Kurt. That is just silly.
            Signature

            Sal
            When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
            Beyond the Path

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4030150].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              So, ya think they used granite tools to cut granite? You have some granite in the hills out where you are, Kurt. Have at it. Then when you get tired of trying to cut granite with granite -- come on back in and I'll tell you that you can't cut a stone with any stone that isn't HARDER than that stone. You aren't going to cut borax with borax - ya aren't going to cut quartz with quartz - and you aren't going to cut granite with granite.

              If you want to tell me they cut sandstone, limestone etc. with granite - that might fly. But granite with granite? Kurt. That is just silly.
              Granite pistle, sand and water, along with rotary force. They didn't cut it, they GROUND it, the holes anyway. Then they split it using expansion combined with following natural fault lines. No cutting involved.

              Enough water, sand and time will erode granite and last I checked water isn't as hard as granite. All we need to do is look at the Grand Cannon to figure that out. So you think the Grand Cannon is "silly"? Keep laughing.

              Plus, I saw them do it on Discovery/National Geo(?).
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4030224].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                Granite pistle, sand and water, along with rotary force. They didn't cut it, they GROUND it, the holes anyway. Then they split it using expansion combined with following natural fault lines. No cutting involved.

                Enough water, sand and time will erode granite and last I checked water isn't as hard as granite. All we need to do is look at the Grand Cannon to figure that out. So you think the Grand Cannon is "silly"? Keep laughing.

                Plus, I saw them do it on Discovery/National Geo(?).
                Thanks Kurt. Grinding is NOT drilling. I've done grinding before. What kind of sand did they use? Most sand is 6 at the hardest on Mohs scale. So is most granite. Water doesn't erode because it's hard - it's corrosive and it takes more than a few years to corrode rock - unless the water is aqueous.

                I'm not all that impressed with National Geo. Nat'l Geo is not much different than Smithsonian. If it goes along with the theory it will be published. Simply put. There are some scientists with some very interesting info out there, and Nat'l Geo won't publish it because it goes against current official theory.

                The Grand Canyon - is mostly limestone, sandstone, and slate. The Granite is in underneath layers - it's 2000 million years zoroaster granite (mica shist) that were mountains that were covered with the other sedimentary rocks as the mountains were covered and uncovered by sea waters. Wind and elements did erode mountains over millions of years. What is eroding in the Grand canyon is the exposed shale, mudstone, limestone and sandstone - the sedimentary rock that covers the granite. Parts of the zoroaster granite could "erode" so to speak, if it is exposed anywhere because of the mica. It doesn't actually "erode" though - it crumbles. This is not the same type of granite that the ancient pyramids are made of.

                Now - about that grinding. - you don't use water, you use oil. Anyone who has ever worked with rock knows that. The person making the documentary should have checked with a lapidary worker before-hand. You don't make grinding paste with water. Water isn't thick enough to make the consistency of paste you need to grind.

                Next - We aren't talking millions of years of erosion or zoroaster granite. We're now talking about grinding - and plutonic granite. Okay - What did they mix that oil with? It wasn't sand - it's not hard enough. Sand isn't any harder than plutonic granite. So it had to be something else. Chert? (is there any there?) Crushed gemstones? Anything they used to grind that stuff with will have left at least a bit of residue. They would have been able to find it even if only in microscopic amounts. What was it?

                Kurt - you can grind gemstones that are 7,8, and 9 on Moh's scale with wood tools (that's how they carve gemstones now if they are doing it by hand) - it's the hardness of the paste grit that does the grinding, not the hardness of the tool.

                Yeah. It's still silly.

                Don't take my word for it. Go down to your local lapidary artist and have him show you how to grind stone.
                Signature

                Sal
                When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                Beyond the Path

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4030443].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                  Thanks Kurt. Grinding is NOT drilling. I've done grinding before. What kind of sand did they use? Most sand is 6 at the hardest on Mohs scale. So is most granite. Water doesn't erode because it's hard - it's corrosive and it takes more than a few years to corrode rock - unless the water is aqueous.

                  I'm not all that impressed with National Geo. Nat'l Geo is not much different than Smithsonian. If it goes along with the theory it will be published. Simply put. There are some scientists with some very interesting info out there, and Nat'l Geo won't publish it because it goes against current official theory.

                  The Grand Canyon - is mostly limestone, sandstone, and slate. The Granite is in underneath layers - it's 2000 million years zoroaster granite (mica shist) that were mountains that were covered with the other sedimentary rocks as the mountains were covered and uncovered by sea waters. Wind and elements did erode mountains over millions of years. What is eroding in the Grand canyon is the exposed shale, mudstone, limestone and sandstone - the sedimentary rock that covers the granite. Parts of the zoroaster granite could "erode" so to speak, if it is exposed anywhere because of the mica. It doesn't actually "erode" though - it crumbles. This is not the same type of granite that the ancient pyramids are made of.

                  Now - about that grinding. - you don't use water, you use oil. Anyone who has ever worked with rock knows that. The person making the documentary should have checked with a lapidary worker before-hand. You don't make grinding paste with water. Water isn't thick enough to make the consistency of paste you need to grind.

                  Next - We aren't talking millions of years of erosion or zoroaster granite. We're now talking about grinding - and plutonic granite. Okay - What did they mix that oil with? It wasn't sand - it's not hard enough. Sand isn't any harder than plutonic granite. So it had to be something else. Chert? (is there any there?) Crushed gemstones? Anything they used to grind that stuff with will have left at least a bit of residue. They would have been able to find it even if only in microscopic amounts. What was it?

                  Kurt - you can grind gemstones that are 7,8, and 9 on Moh's scale with wood tools (that's how they carve gemstones now if they are doing it by hand) - it's the hardness of the paste grit that does the grinding, not the hardness of the tool.

                  Yeah. It's still silly.

                  Don't take my word for it. Go down to your local lapidary artist and have him show you how to grind stone.
                  No...What's silly is you telling me what I saw with my own two eyes is incorrect and that whatever show I was watching had some type of bias...They did it. That's a fact.

                  As far as the documentary, I said "as far a remember", which implies that I may have gotten the minor details incorrect, such as using oil or water, but does NOT mean the documentary was incorrect or that the drilling of the holes wasn't done. Sorry you missed that point, I deliberately included it for a reason.

                  We can play games all day, the point still is, they had the means to create holes in the stones, and these holes still exist to this very day. Denial isn't a river in Egypt and won't change the facts.

                  Instead of telling me why they couldn't do it, when they clearly did, maybe you should spend your time trying to figure out how they did it?

                  As far as the Grand Cannon taking millions of years...I knew you would bring this up, but hoped you put in a little thought before you did. The Egyptians didn't have to grind out the entire Grand Cannon, they only had to grind out small holes in stones, just deep enough so that they could fill them with cloth and water to make the fault lines split. And we both know that the same material (granite) can erode itself. As the granite is ground, it creates its own "sand", to be used on the next series of holes.

                  As far as your ad hominem attack logical fallacy that suggests nothing that Nat Geo does (or Discovery) is correct, there's also plenty of "scientists" that are complete whack jobs intent on making a name for themselves, so I guess your "poisoning the well" logical fallacy works both ways...

                  And don't worry, I'm not taking your word on it, so that's not a problem.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4030530].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Joshua Hawk
                  Hello... the image with what looked like an alien wasn't photoshopped, but was blurry. Look at the following for a more detailed view and see that it just looks like flowers in vase or something similar :

                  catchpenny.org/images/alien1.gif


                  As for the great pyramids and surrounding areas, if you are talking about mysteries, then granite has to be a focus because the 80 ton blocks that were the heaviest are granite. Nobody really knows how they were moved and placed the way they were.

                  Also, the precision with which some of the granite was cut baffles people who do this today with modern tools. Amazing pictures of this at : gizapower.com/pma/index.htm
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4051742].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                    Originally Posted by Joshua Hawk View Post

                    Hello... the image with what looked like an alien wasn't photoshopped, but was blurry. Look at the following for a more detailed view and see that it just looks like flowers in vase or something similar :

                    catchpenny.org/images/alien1.gif


                    As for the great pyramids and surrounding areas, if you are talking about mysteries, then granite has to be a focus because the 80 ton blocks that were the heaviest are granite. Nobody really knows how they were moved and placed the way they were.

                    Also, the precision with which some of the granite was cut baffles people who do this today with modern tools. Amazing pictures of this at : gizapower.com/pma/index.htm
                    Actually, they have a perfectly valid explanation...


                    ~M~
                    Signature

                    "Ich bin en fuego!"
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088517].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Many people don't know that the pyramid served at least 3 different functions of tomb, temple and observatory.

    And...

    It's very possible the ancient Egyptians did not want the world to know exactly how those massive structures were built.

    TL
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4027712].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      These are speculations. There is no evidence whatsoever that the pyramids were used as tombs.

      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Many people don't know that the pyramid served at least 3 different functions of tomb, temple and observatory.

      And...

      It's very possible the ancient Egyptians did not want the world to know exactly how those massive structures were built.

      TL
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4027740].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        These are speculations. There is no evidence whatsoever that the pyramids were used as tombs.
        I have heard that every one of the great pyramids has a kings chamber with a sarcophagus therein but...

        ... it is also true that no one has found and "recorded" finding a mummy in any of the great pyramids.


        TL
        Signature

        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4028120].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
    There have been anachronistic and other oddities found throughout the years that defy what is known. One of them is the Antikythera Mechanism that was found by Greece. The gears are so sophisticated that they had no equal until at least the 14th century and really until much later. And this was dated at 2100 years ago. They're still unsure why it was there and what exactly they were using it for.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4028503].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author wiseguy212
    If you take the perimeter of the pyramid and divide it by two times the height, you get a number that is exactly equivalent to the number pi (3.14159...) up to the fifteenth digit. The chances of this phenomenon happening by sheer chance is remarkably small. Did the ancient Egyptians know what the number pi was? Not likely, seeing as it was a number not calculated accurately to the fourth digit until the 6th century, and the pyramids calculate it to the fifteenth.


    What about the fact that even though the sides of the base of the pyramid are some 757 feet long, it still forms an almost perfect square? Every angle in the base is exactly 90 degrees. In fact, the sides have a difference in length of something like two centimeters, which is an incredibly small amount.


    What about the fact that although the Egyptians kept very careful records about everything they ever did; every king they had, every war they fought, and every structure they built, there were no records of them ever having built the pyramids?



    What about the fact that the Egyptians had not even invented the wheel yet, but the blocks that they had to carry to build the pyramids weighed about 2 tons each? 4,000 lbs.? What did they do... use cement? In fact, they used so much stone, that if you took all of the stone they used and cut it into 1 foot square blocks, it would extend 2/3 of the way around the earth!!!


    If you take the line of longitude that the pyramid lies on and the latitude that the pyramid lies on, 31 degrees north by 31 degrees west (the fact that they are the same number is a coincidence???) they are the two lines that cover the most combined land area in the world. In essence, the pyramid is the center of all of the land mass of the whole earth!!!!


    How about the fact that a group of modern scientists attempted to build a pyramid out next to the real one using modern technologies, and after something like 100 days, succeeded in building one about 1/40 of the size of the real one????


    Did you know that the height of the pyramid (481 feet) is almost exactly 1/1,000,000,000 of the distance from the earth to the sun (480.6 billion feet)?


    What about all of that fungi that was found in King Tutu's chamber? Fungi which has never before been seen on earth? What about the Pharaoh's curse????? You decide, who built the Pyramids?????

    Aliens have definetly constructed the pyramids, so what have the egyptians done on this earth?
    Signature
    Work At Home Profits Money Making Opportunities, Resources & Tips
    Top Paying PTC Reliable Paid To Click & Get Paid To Sites
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4028957].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by wiseguy212 View Post

      Aliens have definetly constructed the pyramids, so what have the egyptians done on this earth?
      Dang it, man, you had me right up until this foible...
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4029030].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    There are pyramids all over the world. They aren't the same country to country - but they are there. If the guy in Bosnia turns out to be right, that's some mighty impressive stonework, too.

    Ya know - the Piri Ries map shouldn't be either. Someone had an areal view of the earth a heck of a long time ago. Now Piri Reis, in his own writings claimed the map was from info that had been in the Library of Alexandria. Other ancient writers referenced that library, too. It was completely destroyed - to the best of our knowledge and according to literature.

    Now - consider the information that Wiseguy212 just gave us on the mathematics of the pryamids. That brings up a whole new question. Why. Why was it so important to build that kind of mathematically complex building. Did they realize then that some human dickhead was going to come along and destroy most everything the world knew and maybe think those structures would alert us to the fact that intelligence existed a long time ago? Was it a purposeful move for prosperity? Something that was highly unlikely to be destroyed, yet cause enough wonder to get some very analytical attention paid to it.

    And -- there is a very strong likelihood that other things have been found that have been kept out of public knowledge. That happens all the time. Would we be actually surprised to find out that much more had been found than we have been allowed to know about? Would the knowledge be so disruptive to current society and norms that they are afraid of what will happen to their noble positions of power if we found out? Would it explain technology booms? If you look back to when archaeologists started really delving into the past, it wasn't long after that we experienced the industrial revolution.

    Right now - that industrial revolution (along with exponential population increases) have pushed us right into the midst of the 6th great extinction. Scientists don't know right now if they can halt it or not - but they are trying. Now - what if a previous civilization of intelligent beings have already been here and done this? Maybe they succumbed to technology, too - and knew we wouldn't be able to handle it until we were able to interpret some of what went on then. The few survivors were pushed back into primitive living conditions and the one resource with blatant information to get us back to where they were (Library of Alexandria) was destroyed.

    I've got my eye on Bosnia. I am hoping this guy is right and I am hoping they find something out that will make a difference real soon. This time, I don't think it will be hidden.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4029716].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Hey Bill,

    I have something for you to think about...Let's go back to the ancients knowing the world was round because of sailors. But instead of taking it literally that a person on a deck of a ship could see other ships disappear, let's consider similar possibilities.

    Let's say instead of watching a ship disappear, that you have two people on a ship and they are watching a larger land mass appear/disappear.

    Before computers, I used to have 20/13 vision, meaning I could see something at 3 miles a person with 20/20 could see only at 2. And while not common, good vision like this isn't rare, either. Let's say tthe wo men both had better than 20/20.

    One man is on deck. One man 100 feet above deck in the crow's nest. The man in the crows nest can see land, the man on deck can't.

    Does this not prove the world is round instead of flat?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4029913].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Hey Bill,

      I have something for you to think about...Let's go back to the ancients knowing the world was round because of sailors. But instead of taking it literally that a person on a deck of a ship could see other ships disappear, let's consider similar possibilities.

      Let's say instead of watching a ship disappear, that you have two people on a ship and they are watching a larger land mass appear/disappear.

      Before computers, I used to have 20/13 vision, meaning I could see something at 3 miles a person with 20/20 could see only at 2. And while not common, good vision like this isn't rare, either. Let's say tthe wo men both had better than 20/20.

      One man is on deck. One man 100 feet above deck in the crow's nest. The man in the crows nest can see land, the man on deck can't.

      Does this not prove the world is round instead of flat?
      Hey Kurt,

      I think you just made a much better argument for folks knowing the world was round with this example.

      The man in the crows nest will see roughly 12 miles farther than the man on deck, but more importantly his line of site being tangent to the horizon, as is the man's on deck, would allow him to see land features such as the convergence of two distant hills to create a pass that the man on deck would see only as two distinct hills not joined at a common point.

      So assuming they could attribute the discrepencies in what they both see to the Earth being a sphere they may have been able to conclude the Earth was not flat.

      Unless there was a Bible onboard.
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4029979].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        One outstanding example and clue of the extensive technology the ancients may have truly known was in Archimedes who lived 287 BC – c. 212 BC. A famous quote attributed to him was "Give me a place to stand on, and a lever and I will move the Earth"

        His math was very close to Newton's calculus including integrals, pi, physics, foundations of hydrostatics, statics and an explanation of the mathmatical principle of the lever and even gear differentials for machinery. He was able to prove the theory of contemporary Greek astronomers such as Eratosthenes that the Earth is round and orbits the Sun by comparing lunar phases at different geographical locations.

        All of this knowledge went missing for centuries until it was "discovered" - again beginning during the Renaissance. Perhaps Archimedes could be considered to be the greatest mathematician, physicist, engineer, inventor, and astronomer ever at least until modern times.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4030120].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    For those wondering about the possibility of ramps, let's not forget Masada:
    Masada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Romans built a 375 ft high ramp to attack Masada in a few months. The Egyptians had 30 more years to go 100 ft higher.

    BTW Sal, only the burial chamber was made from granite, the rest of the Great Pyramid's blocks were made from limestone. And some refernces say only the ceiling of the burial chamber was made from granite.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4030878].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      For those wondering about the possibility of ramps, let's not forget Masada:
      Masada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      The Romans built a 375 ft high ramp to attack Masada in a few months. The Egyptians had 30 more years to go 100 ft higher.

      BTW Sal, only the burial chamber was made from granite, the rest of the Great Pyramid's blocks were made from limestone. And some refernces say only the ceiling of the burial chamber was made from granite.
      Well that would solve one issue I have with the whole "official" opinion. Limestone's not that hard. Some other finds of other settlements are granite though - plutonic - and they are waaaay old.

      Size is still a problem for me - and others. Both for cutting and transport.

      I sure WISH I knew how they transported it. There's a 6' x 4' piece of jade sitting in a stream in a canyon in OR that I would love to be able to move out of there.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4036003].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author johnsander1
    The firon had built it for his grave and he want to make it memorable and want to build a confidence on people that he is powerful therefore people should obedient to him.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4031096].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Whatever Kurt - I told you who to talk to about how to grind stones. I didn't learn to grind stone from watching a video with my own eyes. I learned to grind it by using my own two hands and learning about rock and mineral. You won't convince me -- or a lot of geologists that those rocks were ground by water and sand, although you might be able to convince them the people used wooden tools.

    I don't know who made the documentary you watched. I have no clue of his credentials, or of the materials he was using. You can make a documentary and put it on Nat'l Geo - as long as what you are showing conforms to conventional theory or institutionally allowed advances. That you saw one there should impress me? My site had some of the first released pics of the largest crystals on earth - before Nat'l Geo and Smithsonian. I had the first released info on the invention of the Tri-corder. I know all about the first discoveries using these types of locators. I also know which ones were denounced - and all about the San Salvador lawsuit over ownership of that treasure. I know more about what went on with that than Nat'l Geo or Smithsonian can tell you. I was allowed to release the info on the tri-corder one month before Nat'l Geo got to release their doc. about it. So you aren't going to impress me by flapping those institutions in my face. I know the scientists behind these things - and I defer to them and my own learning in working in stone in forming my opinions on this issue.

    Think what you want. What Kurt believes isn't going to stop the investigation progress of real scientists who have shown me and told me what a crock of crap the conventional authorities perpetuate.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4033938].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Heysal and Kurt, I think we need a group hug. I think you guys might be talking about 2 different things. I think Kurt is talking about the Egypt pyramids and Heysal is referring to Puma Punka. I am quite sure Heysal knows that the structures in Egypt are largely built from limestone (which Kurt pointed out.) The structures at Puma Punku are made entirely out of Granite and Diroite, which I think is what Heysal is referring to.
    Hey Kurt, don't know how familiar you are with Puma Punku but if you don't know much about it, you should defo check it out. Not on Natl. Geo though, they're full of horse****.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4034022].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Heysal and Kurt, I think we need a group hug.
      Yup, group hug you two...

      Don't make me have to bring Wags in here to clean the place out...
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4034517].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Heysal and Kurt, I think we need a group hug. I think you guys might be talking about 2 different things. I think Kurt is talking about the Egypt pyramids and Heysal is referring to Puma Punka. I am quite sure Heysal knows that the structures in Egypt are largely built from limestone (which Kurt pointed out.) The structures at Puma Punku are made entirely out of Granite and Diroite, which I think is what Heysal is referring to.
      Hey Kurt, don't know how familiar you are with Puma Punku but if you don't know much about it, you should defo check it out. Not on Natl. Geo though, they're full of horse****.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4035144].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Kurt. On a different note, I find it a hell of a stretch of the imagination to suggest Thousand tons of solid Granite and Diorite slabs were quarried using wet cloths which expanded to break the slabs away from the quarries.

    I am not an expert but I have spent the last 20 years working with stone and wood at my job as a carpenter. I have difficulties imagining splitting a 20 kilo block of concrete with this method, never mind a 1000 ton slab of granite.

    I could, however see this as a possibility with slate. Slate splits fairly easy.

    Or were you referring to the Limestone quarries in Egypt?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4034078].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    OK. I'm certainly no expert on the pyramids or, stone cutting.
    So, I have some questions.

    How many granite stones were used compared to sandstone?
    Moving at about 5 miles per hour how long would it take to move the stones 100 miles?
    How long would it take to cut them?
    How long would it take to pull them up a ramp?
    And, once they up the ramp, how long would take to put them in place?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4035195].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      I built the pyramids with a Leatherman, ok? ...:p



      Seriously though I'm with lcombs. For every question seemingly answered, there always seem to be two more questions.


      I am not completely opposed to the idea of extraterrestrials....with the vastness of the universe, the only thing that would surprise me is if there wasn't someone else out there.


      That said, if they did...why?

      Why all the mysteries?

      I also would think that if there were "ET's" out there, they would be benign someway.
      With an obvious advantage in technology and brain power, they could have 'taken over' at any time....why not?

      The great pyramids are far from the only mystery on Earth...quite a few which seem to be only possible from the air.

      The real mystery to me is that that there is a great portion of 'mankind', thinking they are the be all and end all of existence.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4035427].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
        Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

        I am not completely opposed to the idea of extraterrestrials....with the vastness of the universe, the only thing that would surprise me is if there wasn't someone else out there.
        I'm a little inclined to think there will be other life forms out in the universe. It only makes sense unless you believe goat herders were the pinnicle of universal life forms.

        But the vastness of space, coupled with the absolute absence of any fingerprint in the electromagnetic spectrum, and Newton's Second Law of Motion, among other things leads me to believe they may not be visiting us for a while, or us visiting them. As a life form we can't get up enough speed to travel any great distances due to the G forces needed and what the human body can handle. Robots maybe, but not humans.

        However, I still keep my eyes peeled for the tip of a spaceship antenna coming over the horizon just in case.
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4035840].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      OK. I'm certainly no expert on the pyramids or, stone cutting.
      So, I have some questions.

      How many granite stones were used compared to sandstone?
      Moving at about 5 miles per hour how long would it take to move the stones 100 miles?
      How long would it take to cut them?
      How long would it take to pull them up a ramp?
      And, once they up the ramp, how long would take to put them in place?
      Not sure - never been there. As far as weight, size, availability and transport - too many questions.

      The one thing I can say is the official explanation will rule til someone finds one that actually works and they can prove it.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4036009].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        I think it takes a certain level of ignorance to believe the official story.

        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Not sure - never been there. As far as weight, size, availability and transport - too many questions.

        The one thing I can say is the official explanation will rule til someone finds one that actually works and they can prove it.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4036030].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Chuck Norris built them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4035459].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    BTW - people calm down. I wasn't fighting with Kurt - I was just pointing out why I don't get overwhelmed by documentaries from certain organizations - and why he can't change my mind about what I think.

    I told him who he could go to and check out stone cutting if he wants to know more about it than just seeing stuff on a documentary. If he's interested he will. If he's not he's not. I don't really care if he wants to believe the official story. I don't have a better one to offer him. I really don't. I really wish I did.

    Earthly or from space -- somebody had a lot more advanced technology than we have public knowledge of. It's very possible that technology has been found and just not released to public knowledge. That happens more than any of us want to know about.

    For now - whatever you wanna believe - sooner or later someone is going to find out something that the authorities won't be able to sequester. It might just be some museum warehouse achiever that decides it's time to start blowing whistles on a few of the science gestapos for hiding some of the stuff they have and won't talk about. There are a few religious organizations with a LOT of power that aren't going to like it if they start talking about a few things some of the scientists are finding out about. Money is money - the only way to get around it is if you have more money than the current PTB have. When you do, you can turn heads and get information released that the lesser money doesn't want out.

    I fully believe they have the answer already. I'm just waiting for the day they decide that we cattle might respond well to a new bell.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4036883].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Hey - BTW

    Anyone ever stop and think we might have already been given the REAL answer without a doubt...........and it was just so bizarre that everyone just wrote the guy off as a kook without really examining what the heck the dude said? I wonder how often that happens.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4036923].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      They answers are there for all to see. It's just a matter of decoding the mathematical formulas that make up these structures. The Egyptians for example tell us exactly who built the pyramides, when they were built and where the architects were from.
      They make it very clear that they Egyptians themselves were not the builders.
      Same as the Mayans, they have clearly stated time and time again that they were not the builders. These structures were built sometime at the end of the last ice age, Thousands of years before the Mayans even showed up.
      They tell us this themselves, why doesn't scientific community come out and admit it?

      What still remains a mystery however, is how and why they were built.

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Hey - BTW

      Anyone ever stop and think we might have already been given the REAL answer without a doubt...........and it was just so bizarre that everyone just wrote the guy off as a kook without really examining what the heck the dude said? I wonder how often that happens.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4038421].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        They answers are there for all to see. It's just a matter of decoding the mathematical formulas that make up these structures. The Egyptians for example tell us exactly who built the pyramides, when they were built and where the architects were from.
        They make it very clear that they Egyptians themselves were not the builders.
        Same as the Mayans, they have clearly stated time and time again that they were not the builders. These structures were built sometime at the end of the last ice age, Thousands of years before the Mayans even showed up.
        They tell us this themselves, why doesn't scientific community come out and admit it?

        What still remains a mystery however, is how and why they were built.

        I don't know about the Mayans but...

        Please help me understand when, where and how the ancient Egyptians made clear that they were not the builders of the pyramids.



        TL
        Signature

        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4038603].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          Well, for starters the Egyptians weren't around 12,000 years ago. The Egyptians themselves never took credit for building the great Pyramids or the Sphinx. They clearly tell us that the sun gods built them.
          When the ancient Egyptians tell us something, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't believe them.

          There is just to much to it for me to cover it here.

          This guy probably explains it better.


          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          I don't know about the Mayans but...

          Please help me understand when, where and how the ancient Egyptians made clear that they were not the builders of the pyramids.



          TL
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4038654].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

            Well, for starters the Egyptians weren't around 12,000 years ago. The Egyptians themselves never took credit for building the great Pyramids or the Sphinx. They clearly tell us that the sun gods built them.
            When the ancient Egyptians tell us something, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't believe them.
            Are you claiming they were built 12,000 years ago???

            I thought they were built around 2700 BC down to about 2500 BC.

            That's true, the people known to us as the ancient Egyptians were not constituted 12,000 years ago but they were as early as 3100 BC when some dude named Namer or Menes from the southern part of the Nile, brought a army up the Nile and expelled foreigners from the delta area and united the upper and lower part of Egypt and founded the 1st dynasty.

            ( BTW, I love the way you Brits pronounce the word dynasty. din-es-ty as opposed to dine-es-ty )


            The part about giving the credit to the sun god is in my opinion simply a people in a religious way giving credit to their god(s) for everything positive in their society as in the glory belongs to God.

            They were not a perfect people but in the daily life of most everyone almost everything was referenced to their religion.

            Why build them??

            Here's a few reasons...

            - Pharaoh wanted a place to be buried and not be disturbed by grave robbers.

            ( no one has "recorded" finding the body of any pharaoh in any of the great pyramids. )

            A religious reason:

            - As far as they were concerned the Egyptians believed the pyramids to be a recreations of the primeval mound they claim that all life sprang from.

            - Building them gave the nation a national project etc.

            - Building them projected power to would be invaders and rivals inside and outside the nation.

            - It was a method of determining pharaoh's level of control over the population and I wouldn't be surprised if simple ego had a lot to do with it.

            - The 3 great pyramids were built by pharaohs of the same family.

            - I have heard that there are places in the pyramid that could be used as an observatory - 400 plus feet high in the sky.

            - There was a whole complex of buildings and enclosure walls built around each pyramid as they were used in religious ceremonies.

            - They knew that were building something that would last virtually forever and could be used as inspiration for future generations of Egyptians and to baffle outsiders.


            TL
            Signature

            "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4038847].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Webber12
            100,000 people 30 years
            1,000,000 people 3 years
            3,000,000 people 1 year
            12,000,000 people 3 months
            36,000,000 people 1 month
            1,080,000,000 people 1 day

            That's half of the worlds internet users could build a pyramid in a day.
            Or 1/5 of the worlds population.

            If America paid each one of those people $14,000 for 1 days work to build a pyramid they could double their debt in 1 day.........!

            It is just as crazy to think that aliens built the pyramids as it is to think that the Egyptians did all that time ago. It is also crazy to think about the amount of money 1 country can spend that it hasn't got!

            Some things are just hard to comprehend.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4038951].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author bravo75
              Still doesn't answer the question who built these things Thousands of years before anyone even knew what an Egyptian is.

              Originally Posted by Webber12 View Post

              100,000 people 30 years
              1,000,000 people 3 years
              3,000,000 people 1 year
              12,000,000 people 3 months
              36,000,000 people 1 month
              1,080,000,000 people 1 day

              That's half of the worlds internet users could build a pyramid in a day.
              Or 1/5 of the worlds population.

              If America paid each one of those people $14,000 for 1 days work to build a pyramid they could double their debt in 1 day.........!

              It is just as crazy to think that aliens built the pyramids as it is to think that the Egyptians did all that time ago. It is also crazy to think about the amount of money 1 country can spend that it hasn't got!

              Some things are just hard to comprehend.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4038972].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Webber12
                Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

                Still doesn't answer the question who built these things Thousands of years before anyone even knew what an Egyptian is.
                It was the Chinese, If you look on the bottom left corner there is a sticker that says made in China...........:rolleyes:

                I have been to the pyramids in near mexico city and i am going to Egypt soon for work.

                I will have a close look.

                See if i can get a picture of the sticker on the side for you.

                Its a cool conversation, and interesting to hear everyone's opinion but I am pretty sure that you won't find your answer on the warrior forum. I know there is many clever people on here. This would be an interesting thread start on architect forum. I am an engineer I have been since i was young, i started as a lego engineer at age 2 lol. I can't see that its possible that the Mayan pyramids were built by humans let alone Egyptian ones. It is not just the massive structural size of them and the man power that would have been needed, it is more the accuracy the alignment and all the other things that still couldn't be done today.

                But then I am the sort of person that doesn't believe in god or ghosts but thinks that aliens are more than likely. Never seen one though not with out the aid of hallucinogens...........
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4039131].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Webber12
                  Anyway I was looking for something to help me with my IM career, 1 bloody big distraction this forum..........
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4039164].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author MerlynSanchez
                Where are you getting this information??????

                Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

                Still doesn't answer the question who built these things Thousands of years before anyone even knew what an Egyptian is.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048065].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author bravo75
                  I have been digging around for the last twenty odd years or so. Any shred of information available to the public domain, I've read it. That's where..

                  Originally Posted by MerlynSanchez View Post

                  Where are you getting this information??????
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048127].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author MerlynSanchez
                    Well, I certainly haven't found anything credible to support your assertion.


                    Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

                    I have been digging around for the last twenty odd years or so. Any shred of information available to the public domain, I've read it. That's how.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048137].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
                      Common sense and intelligence prevails sometimes. Doesn't mean that everyone should agree with me. What a boring world it would be if we all had the same assumptions. Philosophy, art, music would become redundant over night.

                      Originally Posted by MerlynSanchez View Post

                      Well, I certainly haven't found anything credible to support your assertion.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048151].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author MerlynSanchez
                        I asked because you made a statement of fact which runs counter to everything I have ever read, learned, etc.

                        Just curious to hear what you based it on.

                        Now, if you're talking about assumptions then that's a whole different story. Different tastes, opinions, and ideas make the world a much more interesting place.

                        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

                        Common sense and intelligence prevails sometimes. Doesn't mean that everyone should agree with me. What a boring world it would be if we all had the same assumptions. Philosophy, art, music would become redundant over night.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048168].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
                          It's all assumptions. We wouldn't have these discussions otherwise.

                          Originally Posted by MerlynSanchez View Post

                          I asked because you made a statement of fact which runs counter to everything I have ever read, learned, etc.

                          Just curious to hear what you based it on.

                          Now, if you're talking about assumptions then that's a whole different story. Different tastes, opinions, and ideas make the world a much more interesting place.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048198].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author MerlynSanchez
                            I guess that's true. But they make for interesting discussions!

                            Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

                            It's all assumptions. We wouldn't have these discussions otherwise.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048218].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
              Originally Posted by Webber12 View Post

              1,080,000,000 people 1 day

              That's half of the worlds internet users could build a pyramid in a day.
              Or 1/5 of the worlds population.
              Yea right, I can see that.

              And the line around the pyramid base to the outhouse is HOW long?
              Signature
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4039082].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    so why are there more pyramids in sudan
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4046019].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by oncewerewarriors View Post

      so why are there more pyramids in sudan
      The Egyptian construction workers were all laid off after finishing Amasis' pyramid, so they moved to Nubia (now Sudan). Sudan was quite heavily influenced by ancient Egyptian culture until the Assyrian conquest.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4046110].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    TL ---

    The Egyptians believed that ALL men were gods in the spiritual world and human in this world. The pharoh was the human incarnation of a high god. They never referred to any human AS a god, though. When they referred to the pyramids being built by gods - they were NOT referring to humans or using religious metaphor. They were referring to beings that were not earthly. Whether that means advanced civilizations that may have had technology that made Egyptians think they weren't of planet earth or whether it meant that the beings actually CAME here from space and built them might still be a mystery to even those who got to edit the public versions of translations. Not all tablets and scrolls have been released into the public where just anyone who has learned to translate can have access to them.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4046128].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      TL ---

      The Egyptians believed that ALL men were gods in the spiritual world and human in this world. The pharoh was the human incarnation of a high god. They never referred to any human AS a god, though.

      When they referred to the pyramids being built by gods - they were NOT referring to humans or using religious metaphor.

      They were referring to beings that were not earthly.

      Whether that means advanced civilizations that may have had technology that made Egyptians think they weren't of planet earth or whether it meant that the beings actually CAME here from space and built them might still be a mystery to even those who got to edit the public versions of translations.

      Not all tablets and scrolls have been released into the public where just anyone who has learned to translate can have access to them.
      You said...

      When they referred to the pyramids being built by gods - they were NOT referring to humans or using religious metaphor.

      I think they were.

      Who said the Egyptians said the pyramids were built by the gods anyway?

      Whoever said all that had too much beer and/or was prone to ascribing all great endeavors as works of the god(s).

      Once again, I say, the building of those structures is so stupendous, so awesome...

      ... many people can't wrap their heads around the entirely plausible fact that humans built them.

      Just because we don't know exactly how they were built does not mean some beans, I mean beings from another planet or time period etc. built them.

      This argument has raged ever since Napoleonic conquered Egypt and founded Egyptology.

      First, it was if anyone built these things, it wasn't the ancestors of the people Napoleon found there in the early 1800's.

      That lasted until modern times.

      Now a days, we've moved on to beans, make that beings from another planet or time period having built them etc.



      Nothing personal but, I'm not really buying the stuff about the super secret knowledge that holds the keys to the secrets of the pyramids and other hard to explain human
      phenomenon.


      All The Best!!

      TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4046389].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        ...Once again, I say, the building of those structures is so stupendous, so awesome...

        ... many people can't wrap their heads around the entirely plausible fact that humans built them....
        Exactly. Why is it so much more plausible to believe superstitious myths and extraterrestial influence rather than accept ancients used methods and technology not clearly understood? It seems ignorance has evolved.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4046517].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          This nonsense of gangs of slaves lifting 70,000 kilo granite slabs 300 ft into the air somehow is nonsense. How did they get them up there? A ramp? They would have had to use a ramp at least 1 mile long and it still would have been an impossibility.
          Not to mention the fact that there is no granite quarries anywhere to be found around the Giza plateau. As a matter of fact, the nearest granite quarry is 500 miles away. Most non ignorant people have come to the conclusion that the orthodox theories are complete and utter bollox.

          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          Exactly. Why is it so much more plausible to believe superstitious myths and extraterrestial influence rather than accept ancients used methods and technology not clearly understood? It seems ignorance has evolved.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047124].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

            ...Most non ignorant people have come to the conclusion that the orthodox theories are complete and utter bollox.
            And from this we can now conclude that supernatural beings from another planet did all the heavy lifting? :rolleyes:
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047210].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author bravo75
              I didn't mention aliens, you did. A more realistic approach would be to consider the idea that there was an advanced civilization that became extinct through a massive cataclysm around 12,000 years ago.

              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              And from this we can now conclude that supernatural beings from another planet did all the heavy lifting? :rolleyes:
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047673].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

                I didn't mention aliens, you did. A more realistic approach would be to consider the idea that there was an advanced civilization that became extinct through a massive cataclysm around 12,000 years ago.
                Archaeologists don't doubt that anymore, Bravo. There was an advanced civilization. Whether they built the pyramids or not and who did if they didn't is the question. As you know from engineering - and as I know from rock working -- it AIN'T an easy solve no matter WHO the hell did it.

                Also - they KNOW the Sphinx is older than dirt but aren't changing their story on the pyramids yet -- although many of them now do recognize the fact that the only "literature" they have found from Egyptians says someone else did it. Still leaves the question of who and how.

                TL - I thought someone said something about "gods" so was just explaining the Egyptian religious thought and that if they say the "gods" built something - that means not humans - or at least what they recognize as such.. It wouldn't be their terminology. I don't know if they actually ever said the gods did it or not.

                LMAO, Kurt - everyone but me? Hahahahahahaha.
                Actually - I welcome new ideas about it. It's the old version that doesn't swing for me. Bravo is right. There's got to be an answer to how these things were transported long distances, too. As far as the blocks being hauled etc in underground chambers? Don't know. Certainly is worth looking into though. Anything that gives a truly plausible answer might lead them to find answers to other questions.

                What I know about the chambers is that there wasn't anyone buried in them. Tunnels or halls, whatever they are - some of them are not large enough for a human to fit through so they don't understand what they can be for. They just found a chamber at the end of one of them and put a camera down into the chamber and found there is writing there. Not sure how long it will be before anyone tells us what the writing says - or if it's actually the same hieroglyphics that the Egyptians used. They found it last year so it might not be long now. As far as I've seen there haven't been any pictures released either yet.

                All of us here might end up getting a big surprise yet.
                Signature

                Sal
                When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                Beyond the Path

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047730].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047173].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

    This nonsense of gangs of slaves lifting 70,000 kilo granite slabs 300 ft into the air somehow is nonsense. How did they get them up there? A ramp? They would have had to use a ramp at least 1 mile long and it still would have been an impossibility.
    Not to mention the fact that there is no granite quarries anywhere to be found around the Giza plateau. As a matter of fact, the nearest granite quarry is 500 miles away. Most non ignorant people have come to the conclusion that the orthodox theories are complete and utter bollox.
    I'd be careful calling others "ignorant". I just watched a very interesting show on Nat Geo, so this is for everyone but Sal.

    There is a french architect who quit his job and spent his entire life creating a 3d software program to show the Great Pyramid in detail. And since he is an architect, he approached this from an architect's point of view.

    He came up with with a few theories, with a great deal of evidence to back them up.

    1. The Grand Gallery that leads to the King's burial chamber isn't a ceremonial chamber at all. It's a ramp that uses counter weights that allowed for the lifting of the huge granite slabs needed to support the roof of the burial chamber. There was an external sand ramp that lead to the chamber, with the counter balance helping lift the granite.

    The evidence for this all fits, down to the grease marks in the ceremonial chamber, to scratch marks and even a place for the ropes used to pull the granite.

    And since the external sand ramp didn't need to go all the way to the top, it didn't have to be nearly a mile long. And with the use of counter-weights, lifting wouldn't be a problem.


    2. There are internal ramps in the pyramid that spiral around the structure. These ramps run at a 7 degree grade, which is the correct grade for humans to be able to pull/push the limestone up.

    If you look at the pyramid in the proper light, you can see lines that are slightly lighter that the pyramid exactly where the French guy's computer model said they would be. They also go up the pyramid at a 7 degree slope.

    He also said they would need more room at the corners than the internal ramp allowed in order to get the limestone blocks around the corners.

    Ever notice the "notch" on one edge of the pyramid? The light lines lead right to the notch. And, this notch hasn't been explored or mentioned by other Egyptologists.

    The host/Egyptologist climbed up the pyramid (he had permission) and took a look. It seems there is an open area behind the notch.

    But what really makes this more interesting is the French team in the 1980's that took sonograms(?) of the pyramid. They found a chamber that was undiscovered, but when opened it was filled with sand. But this isn't all they found.

    In their reports, there was something they didn't include because they didn't understand it at the time. It was a spiral pattern around the edges that matched almost perfectly with the architect's software simulation.

    Also, there's another pyramid built about 100 years after the Great Pyramid that used an internal ramp. The pyramid has eroded enough that the ramp is exposed, so we know Egyptians knew about the technique.

    So, according to this very well supported theory, a sand ramp that ran half-way up the outside of the pyramid led to the King's chamber with a counter-weight system in the Grand Gallery to lift the granite slabs used to support the roof on the King's chamber.

    The rest of the limestone blocks were put in place using an internal ramp, and it seems likely that this internal ramp system exists and just hasn't' been discovered yet. Let's not forget an hidden room in the Sphinx was only discovered about 20 years ago.

    The show is on Nat Geo and called "Unlocking the Great Pyramid". Very good stuff, check it out if you can.


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047267].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      It baffles my mind that people can't take the great Egyptians for their word.
      They told us time and time again that they were the inherenters of this lost culture and not the creators.


      [quoteE=Kurt;4047267]I'd be careful calling others "ignorant". I just watched a very interesting show on Nat Geo, so this is for everyone but Sal.

      There is a french architect who quit his job and spent his entire life creating a 3d software program to show the Great Pyramid in detail. And since he is an architect, he approached this from an architect's point of view.

      He came up with with a few theories, with a great deal of evidence to back them up.

      1. The Grand Gallery that leads to the King's burial chamber isn't a ceremonial chamber at all. It's a ramp that uses counter weights that allowed for the lifting of the huge granite slabs needed to support the roof of the burial chamber. There was an external sand ramp that lead to the chamber, with the counter balance helping lift the granite.

      The evidence for this all fits, down to the grease marks in the ceremonial chamber, to scratch marks and even a place for the ropes used to pull the granite.

      And since the external sand ramp didn't need to go all the way to the top, it didn't have to be nearly a mile long. And with the use of counter-weights, lifting wouldn't be a problem.


      2. There are internal ramps in the pyramid that spiral around the structure. These ramps run at a 7 degree grade, which is the correct grade for humans to be able to pull/push the limestone up.

      If you look at the pyramid in the proper light, you can see lines that are slightly lighter that the pyramid exactly where the French guy's computer model said they would be. They also go up the pyramid at a 7 degree slope.

      He also said they would need more room at the corners than the internal ramp allowed in order to get the limestone blocks around the corners.

      Ever notice the "notch" on one edge of the pyramid? The light lines lead right to the notch. And, this notch hasn't been explored or mentioned by other Egyptologists.

      The host/Egyptologist climbed up the pyramid (he had permission) and took a look. It seems there is an open area behind the notch.

      But what really makes this more interesting is the French team in the 1980's that took sonograms(?) of the pyramid. They found a chamber that was undiscovered, but when opened it was filled with sand. But this isn't all they found.

      In their reports, there was something they didn't include because they didn't understand it at the time. It was a spiral pattern around the edges that matched almost perfectly with the architect's software simulation.

      Also, there's another pyramid built about 100 years after the Great Pyramid that used an internal ramp. The pyramid has eroded enough that the ramp is exposed, so we know Egyptians knew about the technique.

      So, according to this very well supported theory, a sand ramp that ran half-way up the outside of the pyramid led to the King's chamber with a counter-weight system in the Grand Gallery to lift the granite slabs used to support the roof on the King's chamber.

      The rest of the limestone blocks were put in place using an internal ramp, and it seems likely that this internal ramp system exists and just hasn't' been discovered yet. Let's not forget an hidden room in the Sphinx was only discovered about 20 years ago.

      The show is on Nat Geo and called "Unlocking the Great Pyramid". Very good stuff, check it out if you can.


      YouTube - &#x202a;Great Pyramid Mystery Solved?&#x202c;&rlm;[/quote]
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047704].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        It baffles my mind that people can't take the great Egyptians for their word.
        They told us time and time again that they were the inherenters of this lost culture and not the creators.
        Funny, they also buried the architect on site and he was very well respected and famous.

        It baffles me how you can deny the evidence that's I spent a lot of time posting for your benefit.

        Now explain how a civilization 7000 years before the pyramids left their knowledge over all those thousands of years? You don't even have a theory as there's no evidence to support it, so it's nothing more than a hypothosis.

        And if they were so "advanced", why did they use the most primiative of construction principles? Why just stone blocks stacked into a pyramid?

        Sure, they had great math and craftsmanship, but their use of materials was very primitive. Why not use any domes or any of the more advanced metals? The fact is, pyramids are the most primitive structure that can be use to build massive buildings, not the most sophistacted.

        Like I said, there's another pyramid that has internal ramps that was built about the same time as the Great Pyramid. It's also been proven that man power can get the blocks up the ramps, as this is easy to duplicate.

        And your complete rejection of new evidence given to support other theories says a lot about your ability to change your views when new evidence is provided.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047736].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          Who is this architect you speak of? There is a plethora of evidence to support my theory.
          Edit. If you are referring to Kofu, then you are very much mislead, my friend.


          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Funny, they also buried the architect on site and he was very well respected and famous.

          It baffles me how you can deny the evidence that's I spent a lot of time posting for your benefit.

          Now explain how a civilization 7000 years before the pyramids left their knowledge over all those thousands of years? You don't even have a theory as there's no evidence to support it, so it's nothing more than a hypothosis.

          And if they were so "advanced", why did they use the most primiative of construction principles? Why just stone blocks stacked into a pyramid?

          Sure, they had great math and craftsmanship, but their use of materials was very primitive. Why not use any domes or any of the more advanced metals? The fact is, pyramids are the most primitive structure that can be use to build massive buildings, not the most sophistacted.

          Like I said, there's another pyramid that has internal ramps that was built about the same time as the Great Pyramid. It's also been proven that man power can get the blocks up the ramps, as this is easy to duplicate.

          And your complete rejection of new evidence given to support other theories says a lot about your ability to change your views when new evidence is provided.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047768].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

            Who is this architect you speak of? There is a plethora of evidence to support my theory.
            Edit. If you are referring to Kofu, then you are very much mislead, my friend.
            Then post your "plethora" of evidence. :rolleyes:

            No, Kofu was NOT the architect. Hemiunu is his name. And he was given a burial tomb on the grounds of the Great Pyramid in respect. Now who is being mislead again?
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047802].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author bravo75
              Certainly not evidence but something I would recommend. You seem hell-bent on defending the orthodox theory of not only the pyramids but just about anything that puts anything mainstream into question. Why is that?


              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Then post your "plethora" of evidence. :rolleyes:

              No, Kofu was NOT the architect. Hemiunu is his name. And he was given a burial tomb on the grounds of the Great Pyramid in respect. Now who is being mislead again?
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047831].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author John M Kane
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          very well respected and famous.
          Uncle Bill Clinton was/is very well respected and famous too, so?
          Read the right books and Marx and Hitler rocked too.
          Freud is no longer so popular in some circles.
          Stanley Meyer was a nut job too or a saint/martyr depending what your reading.
          That means what?
          Popular Press does not equal fact. Just watch CNN and Fox news.
          What you "get" to watch is controlled.
          Controlled opposition too is a conjecture, but it fits as an answer to some questions.
          Clearly we are all speculating and tossing opinions around like a nerf ball at a redneck beer party.
          Bible believer or not, that series of books are written by several authors(presumed) and some are thought to be penned by others.
          I love a good mystery and think some will never be revealed/solved,not that we should stop trying though.
          I do tend to think Kurt has some excellent plausible ideas.
          Can weather be "controlled?" Can hurricanes be directed? Can we cause an earthquake?

          Respectfully yours,
          JMK the resident Chief WF conspiracy Nut-Job
          Crap it hurts like hell keeping my tongue in cheek!

          Too sleepy to read the entire thread, but has Edward Leedskalnin's structures been mentioned at all?
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4090438].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    "So, according to this very well supported theory, a sand ramp that ran half-way up the outside of the pyramid led to the King's chamber with a counter-weight system in the Grand Gallery to lift the granite slabs used to support the roof on the King's chamber.

    The rest of the limestone blocks were put in place using an internal ramp, and it seems likely that this internal ramp system exists and just hasn't' been discovered yet. Let's not forget an hidden room in the Sphinx was only discovered about 20 years ago."

    So, more theorys and a possible ramp that "just hasn't' been discovered yet."

    As I said before, I'm certainly no expert on the pyramids, but, I've seen my fair-share
    of documentaries for both sides.

    And, If modern science can't figure it out, how could the Egyptions?

    Kurt, no offense intended, but I think you're being closed minded about the subject.
    You continue to quote theory after theory as though they are facts.

    Considering no concrete explanation has been proven, I have to believe there is another explanation.

    Personally, I tend to agree with HeySal.
    I find it difficult to believe that the ancient Egyptions could cut granite to precise dimentions and place them precisely into place.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047729].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

      "So, according to this very well supported theory, a sand ramp that ran half-way up the outside of the pyramid led to the King's chamber with a counter-weight system in the Grand Gallery to lift the granite slabs used to support the roof on the King's chamber.

      The rest of the limestone blocks were put in place using an internal ramp, and it seems likely that this internal ramp system exists and just hasn't' been discovered yet. Let's not forget an hidden room in the Sphinx was only discovered about 20 years ago."

      So, more theorys and a possible ramp that "just hasn't' been discovered yet."

      As I said before, I'm certainly no expert on the pyramids, but, I've seen my fair-share
      of documentaries for both sides.

      And, If modern science can't figure it out, how could the Egyptions?

      Kurt, no offense intended, but I think you're being closed minded about the subject.
      You continue to quote theory after theory as though they are facts.

      Considering no concrete explanation has been proven, I have to believe there is another explanation.

      Personally, I tend to agree with HeySal.
      I find it difficult to believe that the ancient Egyptions could cut granite to precise dimentions and place them precisely into place.
      I gave you a new theory SUPPORTED BY FACTS. You give me an idea supported by NOTHING. Your enitre "argument" is that you can't think of how the Egyptians did a few things, so it was some great previous civilization that did...Yet you criticise my post for "lack of facts", which I gave plenty, but don't offer me a single fact? Are you serious?

      Let's get the FACTS straight. There are only dozens of granite slabs, not hundreds or thousands or millions, used above the King's chamber to support the weight of all the limestone above the chamber.

      What Sal didn't tell you is that materials of the SAME hardness can be used to GRIND that material. Anyone that grinds their teeth at night knows this. You simply look for granite with fault lines, expand the faults, then use the same granite to grind them down.

      Hard work? Yes. Impossible? Not hardly.

      I've seen this duplicated. THIS IS A FACT.

      As a matter of fact, these granite support slabs even cracked during construction. We know the architect in charge was aware of this, as there is a tunnel carved for the purpose of inspecting the granite supports. He put some plaster in the crack to see if the crack was growing. Since the plaster didnt crack, the architect decided that the roof was stable and wouldn't collaspe on the King's tomb, so they continued with the construction.

      The French architect dedicated his entire life to this...I suggest you at least give him the respect of considering his theory. There's another pyramid we KNOW used the same technique. And there's enough evidence to support a theory that it was used in the Great Pyramid as well.

      And modern science IS figuring out how it was built. Even if they don't, it's a serious flaw in logic to say because we don't know how the Egyptians did it, that THEY didn't know how they did it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047788].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    What Sal didn't tell you is that materials of the SAME hardness can be used to GRIND that material. Anyone that grinds their teeth at night knows this. You simply look for granite with fault lines, expand the faults, then use the same granite to grind them down.
    No Sal sure didn't say that. Sal doesn't know even one mineralogist who would agree with that. Sal hasn't met a geologist that would tell you that. Not going to concede on that one -- so we are just going to disagree. If there are people that really believe they are going to get anywhere grinding the same hardness substance - then they are on your side. Not much we can do about that one at this point Kurt.

    I am, however, not gonna ditch on the new theories you brought in here, because I don't know enough about it to guess. Sometime when I talk to friends who are actually educated and knowledgeable about it - I might bring it up and see what THEY have to say.

    When I slammed Nat'l Geo - I wasn't saying that anything you see there isn't true - I was just saying it's not true just because it's there. They still only run stuff that is in accordance with what the "authorities" say about it - and "authorities" have agendas - follow the money.

    As far as the architect - I've no doubt he was one. Whether he had anything to do with the pyramids or how long ago he lived, etc - I don't know. Never read anything that I can remember anything I've read about what actual documents say or don't say. Not sure if there are inferences being drawn or if something is stated flat out or what.

    As far as using stone? It makes one huge world of sense to me. What lasts longer and is stronger? You build something of stone and there's a good likelihood, barring a massive catastrophe, that it's going to last forever. It's also environmentally friendly. I would think that any truly advanced civilization would be aware of how ecosystems work and would attempt to work in balance with them. We didn't - NASA just figured out about 2 years ago exactly how crucial the balances were. There are major efforts being made globally to correct our idiocy in destroying them before humans become one of the species that succumb to the 6th major extinction that we are now part of.

    Humans have been building with stone since at least 200,000 years ago. There is a settlement in S. Africa that they are excavating that dates back that far. We STILL build with stone. Some of the oldest strongest buildings in our nation are stone buildings. Would a civilization discovering the Washington monument 4,000 years from now think we were cavemen because we used stone for building material? My guess is we always have and always will.

    As far as aliens? Why not. Humans are not as bright as we like to think and we've started to go into space. At the time there's work being done on commercializing Mars for whatever they are going to mine from it. Water? Helium 3? Not sure. I haven't followed it that far. But if we can go to Mars - I don't see what's so far fetched about some other civilization somewhere else being able to come here. From all the documents being released from "secret" status, it appears someone's been coming around. What the big deal and wank is about that idea, I don't really understand. Someone afraid their throne's gonna disintegrate or something?
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4047978].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Yeah Merlyn - sure beats sitting here listing 20 different favorites of the day doesn't it? This is what it was like in political threads - except someone usually went off hard enough to get a brew-ha-ha started so they shut those down. It gets heated in science, too - a LOT of sharp minds and strong opinions in this place - but it doesn't usually go completely bar brawl either. Politics does, LMAO. Those of us that have been here in the OT since 2005 have all been called some really disgusting names at least once. You aren't an OTer until you've been called something really wicked. - I even got the honor of being told to go to hell once. Hahahahahahahahaha. Politics got hot - but it was fun.

    Kurt is about my favorite person to sling science with on this forum. Serious. Bet you couldn't tell that. You missed politics.

    Not as much fun as science, though...........
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048501].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author lcombs
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Yeah Merlyn - sure beats sitting here listing 20 different favorites of the day doesn't it? This is what it was like in political threads - except someone usually went off hard enough to get a brew-ha-ha started so they shut those down. It gets heated in science, too - a LOT of sharp minds and strong opinions in this place - but it doesn't usually go completely bar brawl either. Politics does, LMAO. Those of us that have been here in the OT since 2005 have all been called some really disgusting names at least once. You aren't an OTer until you've been called something really wicked. - I even got the honor of being told to go to hell once. Hahahahahahahahaha. Politics got hot - but it was fun.

      Kurt is about my favorite person to sling science with on this forum. Serious. Bet you couldn't tell that. You missed politics.

      Not as much fun as science, though...........
      Couldn't have said it better myself.

      I admit I'm not in the same league as you and Kurt.
      But, I do enjoy a good debate and stirring the pot.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4052752].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        True that. Wouldn't be the same without those two.

        Originally Posted by lcombs View Post

        Couldn't have said it better myself.

        I admit I'm not in the same league as you and Kurt.
        But, I do enjoy a good debate and stirring the pot.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4054638].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Bravo75 said...

    "It baffles my mind that people can't take the great Egyptians for their word.
    They told us time and time again that they were the inheritors of this lost culture and not the creators."

    I say where is all this at?????????????????

    If it's on the video please give me the time and I'll take a look at it.

    But...

    Son, you are way off the reservation on this one.

    1: You're harping on granite when the structures were built with 99.99% limestone.

    2: You're way off base thinking that slaves built them.

    ( Me thinks he's seen "The 10 Commandments" a few times too many. )

    3: You have the time period of the actual construction wrong.

    Some dude told you that they were built some 12,000 years ago instead of about 5,000 years ago because of some type of alignment of the stars at 12,000 years ago that has something to do with exactly how the 3 great pyramids were placed on the plateau.

    Maybe the "Belt Of Orion" is involved with this hypothesis.


    4: You seem to be consistently getting the Egyptian situation mixed up with other amazing stuff around the world.

    Mr. Icombs said...

    I find it difficult to believe that the ancient Egyptians could cut "granite"...

    ... to precise dimensions and place them precisely into place.


    Please see #1 above and read Kurt's posts in this thread for more technical info.

    Sal said...

    Why not aliens???

    My answer to the Alien or Super Deep ancient, ancient civilization built them theory, is that...

    ... there is way too much hard evidence that those people could and did build those structures themselves without any help from who knows who and also without slavery simply adds to the wonderment of it all.

    That's teamwork!

    Finally...

    I've listed many reasons why they built them above but here's another couple...


    #1: They had to know that people the world over and thought time would wonder and marvel at those structures and they wanted to...

    ... build a tourist attraction for the nation. (LOL)

    #2: They wanted to leave an example of what we are capable of.




    #3: They wanted to leave the unmistakable message that they were not fools.

    All The Best!!

    TL

    Ps. Does anyone know the oldest known recorded date?


    I heard it was 3641 BC and it is an Egyptian date.

    Does anyone know the oldest known recorded date used by Western calendars?
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048625].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Let's keep this civil. All I am doing is stating an opinion. If we knew the answers, we wouldn't be engaging in this fascinating topic.
      I have posted several rather convincing links in this thread.
      Every fibre of common sense tells me that a Hundred Thousand half naked Egyptians running around in the desert didn't build these things. I should add, that I am quite aware that the Pyramids of Egypt were made out of Limestone and not Granite. 99.99% is a bit exaggerated though. There are Hundreds of
      70,000 Kilo Granite slabs all over the Giza plateau.

      It's OK to disagree, you know.
      Never seen the ten commandments. Any good?

      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Bravo75 said...
      "It baffles my mind that people can't take the great Egyptians for their word.
      They told us time and time again that they were the inheritors of this lost culture and not the creators."

      I say where is all this at?????????????????

      If it's on the video please give me the time and I'll take a look at it.

      But...

      Son, you are way off the reservation on this one.

      1: You're harping on granite when the structures were built with 99.99% limestone.

      2: You're way off base thinking that slaves built them.

      ( Me thinks he's seen "The 10 Commandments" a few times too many. )

      3: You have the time period of the actual construction wrong.

      Some dude told you that they were built some 12,000 years ago instead of about 5,000 years ago because of some type of alignment of the stars at 12,000 years ago that has something to do with exactly how the 3 great pyramids were placed on the plateau.

      Maybe the "Belt Of Orion" is involved with this hypothesis.


      4: You seem to be consistently getting the Egyptian situation mixed up with other amazing stuff around the world.

      Mr. Combs said...

      I find it difficult to believe that the ancient Egyptians could cut "granite"...

      ... to precise dimensions and place them precisely into place.


      Please see #1 above and read Kurt's posts in this thread for more technical info.

      Sal said...

      Why not aliens???

      My answer to the Alien or Super Deep ancient, ancient civilization built them theory, is that...

      ... there is way too much hard evidence that those people could and did build those structures themselves without any help from who knows who and also without slavery simply adds to the wonderment of it all.

      That's teamwork!

      Finally...

      I've listed many reasons why they built them above but here's another couple...


      #1: They had to know that people the world over and thought time would wonder and marvel at those structures and they wanted to...

      ... build a tourist attraction for the nation. (LOL)

      #2: They wanted to leave an example of what we are capable of.




      #3: They wanted to leave the unmistakable message that they were not fools.

      All The Best!!

      TL

      Ps. Does anyone know the oldest known recorded date?


      I heard it was 3641 BC and it is an Egyptian date.

      Does anyone know the oldest known recorded date used by Western calendars?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4050590].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Ps. Does anyone know the oldest known recorded date?


    I heard it was 3641 BC and it is an Egyptian date.

    Does anyone know the oldest known recorded date used by Western calendars?
    I'm not sure - it may have been the Sumerians, though. (That we know of). I'll check some of my stuff and see if I can find a reference to it tomorrow.

    Calendar? - The one we use now? Good question.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4048908].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Granite-working In Ancient Egypt

    NOVA Online | Secrets of Lost Empires | Pharaoh's Obelisk | Cutting Granite with Sand

    Cutting Stone

    And this one has good pictures proving that copper can cut the exact granite the Egyptians cut.
    How to cut Granite with Sand!


    Bravo said it would take a mile long ramp (at a 7 degree slope) to reach the top of the Great Pyramid. Guess how long the internal ramp spiraling around the pyramid at a 7 degree grade was in Jean-Pierre Houdin computer model?

    Now you guys need to explain the "Ceremonial Chamber"? I did, now your turn.

    BTW, here's the experiment done with kites. My memory was incorrect in that this method wasn't for raising blocks for the limestone for the pyramids, but rather how they could have raised the oblisks.
    UK Psychics Report - Did ancient Egyptians use kite power to build pyramids?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4084657].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Granite-working In Ancient Egypt

      NOVA Online | Secrets of Lost Empires | Pharaoh's Obelisk | Cutting Granite with Sand

      Cutting Stone

      And this one has good pictures proving that copper can cut the exact granite the Egyptians cut.
      How to cut Granite with Sand!


      Bravo said it would take a mile long ramp (at a 7 degree slope) to reach the top of the Great Pyramid.

      Guess how long the internal ramp spiraling around the pyramid at a 7 degree grade was in Jean-Pierre Houdin computer model?

      Now you guys need to explain the "Ceremonial Chamber"? I did, now your turn.

      BTW, here's the experiment done with kites. My memory was incorrect in that this method wasn't for raising blocks for the limestone for the pyramids, but rather how they could have raised the oblisks.
      UK Psychics Report - Did ancient Egyptians use kite power to build pyramids?
      Good stuff Kurt.

      I've visited and seen up close that fractured obelisk.

      TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4085192].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      I thought you were a decent chap. I am starting to think, however that you belong to the sheeple society.

      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Granite-working In Ancient Egypt

      NOVA Online | Secrets of Lost Empires | Pharaoh's Obelisk | Cutting Granite with Sand

      Cutting Stone

      And this one has good pictures proving that copper can cut the exact granite the Egyptians cut.
      How to cut Granite with Sand!


      Bravo said it would take a mile long ramp (at a 7 degree slope) to reach the top of the Great Pyramid. Guess how long the internal ramp spiraling around the pyramid at a 7 degree grade was in Jean-Pierre Houdin computer model?

      Now you guys need to explain the "Ceremonial Chamber"? I did, now your turn.

      BTW, here's the experiment done with kites. My memory was incorrect in that this method wasn't for raising blocks for the limestone for the pyramids, but rather how they could have raised the oblisks.
      UK Psychics Report - Did ancient Egyptians use kite power to build pyramids?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088014].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        I thought you were a decent chap. I am starting to think, however that you belong to the sheeple society.
        If you're referring to me, I am.

        I can honestly say that decent people can have a honest difference of opinion on this subject without name calling.

        I've given you a multitude of cultural reasons why they built those structures and Kurt has supplied loads of how to technical data.

        Lots of people are trying to make a name for themselves off this Egyptian stuff.

        I saw a show the other day where a lady claimed that the "central" idea of Egyptian society was to kill people (foreigners) in the name of their gods.


        Go figure!


        TL
        Signature

        "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088165].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          No mate, I was not referring to you.

          I was referring to the individual that posted this on another thread.

          "But good job wondering off topic and not learn anything on this thread, or the other one. Funny how people claim to be so "open minded", yet when given new info, they can't change their minds.

          It's ironic you also posted about Buzz Aldrin...Because your crap on the pyramid thread reminded me of something Buzz himself said about those that discredit his achievement...He called it historical sabotage, pretty much what you do to the Egyptians, sabotage their achievements and give the credit to some mythical people. Good job."




          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          If you're referring to me, I am.

          I can honestly say that decent people can have a honest difference of opinion on this subject without name calling.

          I've given you a multitude of cultural reasons why they built those structures and Kurt has supplied loads of how to technical data.

          Lots of people are trying to make a name for themselves off this Egyptian stuff.

          I saw a show the other day where a lady claimed that the "central" idea of Egyptian society was to kill people (foreigners) in the name of their gods.


          Go figure!


          TL
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088241].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

            No mate, I was not referring to you.

            I was referring to the individual that posted this on another thread.

            "But good job wondering off topic and not learn anything on this thread, or the other one. Funny how people claim to be so "open minded", yet when given new info, they can't change their minds.

            It's ironic you also posted about Buzz Aldrin...Because your crap on the pyramid thread reminded me of something Buzz himself said about those that discredit his achievement...He called it historical sabotage, pretty much what you do to the Egyptians, sabotage their achievements and give the credit to some mythical people. Good job."
            And yet another example of your crap. This time it's personal crap and a typical an homenim attack (logical fallacy) because you have nothing else to offer.

            Now let's see if you can actually provide some FACTS about how you "think" the pyramids were built. Since ancient civilizations built the pyramids as you claim, how did they do it? What tools did they use? Where is your proof?

            Showing some pictures you claim the Egytians couldn't do is hardly proof.


            Da Nile - River used to float blocks of granite to the pyramids.

            Denial - Bravo who has yet to accept a single new theory as even possible, yet claims to be "open minded".


            BTW, I gave Bravo documented proof that the Egyptians could have cut granite, but he denies the facts, claiming I'm "sheeple" as they aren't convenient to the "theories" he most likely formed years ago and hasn't changed since, despite new and alternative theories being presented.

            "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof." Carl Sagan
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088534].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              And yet another example of your crap. This time it's personal crap and a typical an homenim attack (logical fallacy) because you have nothing else to offer.

              Now let's see if you can actually provide some FACTS about how you "think" the pyramids were built. Since ancient civilizations built the pyramids as you claim, how did they do it? What tools did they use? Where is your proof?

              Showing some pictures you claim the Egytians couldn't do is hardly proof.


              Da Nile - River used to float blocks of granite to the pyramids.

              Denial - Bravo who has yet to accept a single new theory as even possible, yet claims to be "open minded".


              BTW, I gave Bravo documented proof that the Egyptians could have cut granite, but he denies the facts, claiming I'm "sheeple" as they aren't convenient to the "theories" he most likely formed years ago and hasn't changed since, despite new and alternative theories being presented.

              "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof." Carl Sagan
              Well said, Kurt. Like I said above, "...no amount of facts or logic can change someone's mind once they buy into "alternative theories".

              All the best,
              Michael
              Signature

              "Ich bin en fuego!"
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088567].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          Apparantley, debate with this gentleman is not possible without him referring to insults.

          In a none cyber world, I would probably call him a twunt.


          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          If you're referring to me, I am.

          I can honestly say that decent people can have a honest difference of opinion on this subject without name calling.

          I've given you a multitude of cultural reasons why they built those structures and Kurt has supplied loads of how to technical data.

          Lots of people are trying to make a name for themselves off this Egyptian stuff.

          I saw a show the other day where a lady claimed that the "central" idea of Egyptian society was to kill people (foreigners) in the name of their gods.


          Go figure!


          TL
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088359].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
            Not only does the Great pyramid show mathematical and engineering perfection which cannot be duplicated by our "modern" and "technological" society (validated by structural engineers), but the Great Hallway shows signs of electrical conduits lining the entire length of the ceiling. Two copper rails for some as yet, unknown purpose. One theory is that the Great Hallway was a conduit for some electrical mechanism. Many of the relief carvings in the Pyramid show the "gods" holding what look to be giant light bulbs powered by transformers and connected by cables. Since electricity was a KNOWN and used source of energy in ancient times (i.e. battery of baghdad), it is surmisable that electricity was used during the time of constrution of the Great Pyramid.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088509].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Obviously cut with sand and olive oil.

















    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4084697].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Obviously cut with sand and olive oil.


















      Why are you showing stonework from architecture from the Americas as proof of what the Egyptians could or couldn't do?

      And in the Egyptian pics, notice how they didn't even have the tech for arches, let alone domes? How advanced is that?

      Also, for the Egyptian stonework, which are limestone and which are granite? Remember, there's only a few dozen of the blocks in the Great Pyramid that are actually granite, used to support the roof of the King's Chamber...The other 2.3 million are limestone. Hard to tell, but the stones in the bottom pic look more like limestone to me.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089120].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        Kurt, this thread has long derailed form Egypt. It has been veered in the inevitable direction of ancient structures.

        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Why are you showing stonework from architecture from the Americas as proof of what the Egyptians could or couldn't do?

        And in the Egyptian pics, notice how they didn't even have the tech for arches, let alone domes? How advanced is that?

        Also, for the Egyptian stonework, which are limestone and which are granite? Remember, there's only a few dozen of the blocks in the Great Pyramid that are actually granite, used to support the roof of the King's Chamber...The other 2.3 million are limestone. Hard to tell, but the stones in the bottom pic look more like limestone to me.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089157].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        Btw, the links about using sand to cut granite you posted are extremely interesting. I will be having a closer look at this tomorrow.

        However, the kite theory is less convincing. They managed to erect a 6,900-pound stone, or the average weight of one of the 2,300,000 limestone blocks that make up the Giza pyramide. That really doesn't impress me. There are just too many other factors to consider.




        You might think I am a bit of a twonk head but I am open to this kind of stuff. Keep posting your links, I read every one of them, even if you think this is a "crappy thread". In other words, thanks for the links.

        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Why are you showing stonework from architecture from the Americas as proof of what the Egyptians could or couldn't do?

        And in the Egyptian pics, notice how they didn't even have the tech for arches, let alone domes? How advanced is that?

        Also, for the Egyptian stonework, which are limestone and which are granite? Remember, there's only a few dozen of the blocks in the Great Pyramid that are actually granite, used to support the roof of the King's Chamber...The other 2.3 million are limestone. Hard to tell, but the stones in the bottom pic look more like limestone to me.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089243].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Joshua Hawk
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        And in the Egyptian pics, notice how they didn't even have the tech for arches, let alone domes? How advanced is that?
        Earlier Egypt at least had some corbel arches. Years from now many modern buildings will be long gone, while traces of the pyramids will remain. Obviously they weren't built as a home or an office - they had a more important purpose, or what was perceived to be one at least.

        Also, for the Egyptian stonework, which are limestone and which are granite? Remember, there's only a few dozen of the blocks in the Great Pyramid that are actually granite, used to support the roof of the King's Chamber...The other 2.3 million are limestone. Hard to tell, but the stones in the bottom pic look more like limestone to me.
        gizapower.com/pma/index.htm

        Again, see that link for pictures of more granite in the area.

        images.travelpod.com/users/lraleigh/youarehere..1209232200.face_statue.jpg

        Also that one for an example of granite statues. Smashing out large pieces of granite with dolerite balls is one thing, but precision sculpting is another.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4101401].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Joshua Hawk View Post

          Earlier Egypt at least had some corbel arches. Years from now many modern buildings will be long gone, while traces of the pyramids will remain. Obviously they weren't built as a home or an office - they had a more important purpose, or what was perceived to be one at least.
          In the context of my earlier post, I included domes. Corbel "arches" don't qualify, IMO.

          This is really irrelevant, as the pyramids haven't been "useful" for 1000s of years. Considering the cost of a pyramid, buildings can be built and rebuilt any number of times.

          gizapower.com/pma/index.htm

          Again, see that link for pictures of more granite in the area.

          images.travelpod.com/users/lraleigh/youarehere..1209232200.face_statue.jpg

          Also that one for an example of granite statues. Smashing out large pieces of granite with dolerite balls is one thing, but precision sculpting is another.
          I disagree. They could use dolerite to get the general shape, then use sand and other small polishing stones...Such as this Egyptian drawing depicts:
          http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/pub...-Materials.pdf

          The cuts are interesting, but why aren't there more "saw" marks actually on the pyramid? This doesn't mean that they didn't have some type of dolerite blade and saw, but then if this was a better technique, why not more saw marks in and on the pyramid itself. All of your examples are external to the pyramid and not actually part of it.

          I did find the core interesting, but need some proof it didn't come after the time of the pyramids. As I said in an earlier post, the "drilling" of holes using dolerite has been replicated.

          Also, granite/basalt in the area as shown in your examples is irrelevant as to how the Egyptians could raise granite stones, since the basalt/granite stones are on ground level outside the pyramid. A main point about granite was they didn't have to lift all that many of them, and they didn't.

          Plus the obelisks are custom sculpted and are a much bigger tech problem than the granite used for the pyramids.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4101619].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Joshua Hawk
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            In the context of my earlier post, I included domes. Corbel "arches" don't qualify, IMO.

            This is really irrelevant, as the pyramids haven't been "useful" for 1000s of years. Considering the cost of a pyramid, buildings can be built and rebuilt any number of times.
            If my neighbor tells me he is building a tribute to the gods, which he wants to last forever, and then he builds a stone pyramid, I'm not going to ask him why it doesn't have a modern roof, doors or a refrigerator. The perceived purpose of a structure can influence the building techniques.

            The builders of the great pyramids may have been advanced enough to envision domes and other methods, but viewed them as too fragile in comparison to what they built.

            I disagree. They could use dolerite to get the general shape, then use sand and other small polishing stones...


            As I said in an earlier post, the "drilling" of holes using dolerite has been replicated.
            Here is a quote from the stone mason involved with the PBS special that had the hole drilling :

            "Even with modern tools--stone chisels and diamond wheels--we would have a tough time doing such fine work in granite," says Hopkins.

            I've only seen similar quotes from other modern stone workers. Some say the precise sculpting would have been impossible, some say it would have just been extremely difficult, but they all admit they are rather baffled.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4102665].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
        The specific angles were intentional, mathematical formulaes.

        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Why are you showing stonework from architecture from the Americas as proof of what the Egyptians could or couldn't do?

        And in the Egyptian pics, notice how they didn't even have the tech for arches, let alone domes? How advanced is that?

        Also, for the Egyptian stonework, which are limestone and which are granite? Remember, there's only a few dozen of the blocks in the Great Pyramid that are actually granite, used to support the roof of the King's Chamber...The other 2.3 million are limestone. Hard to tell, but the stones in the bottom pic look more like limestone to me.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107400].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post

          The specific angles were intentional, mathematical formulaes.
          Now THAT is really something! I must be living in some sort of mystical dwelling. How can I tell?

          It's built using 90-degree angles! FOUR OF THEM...that adds up to 360!

          360!!!

          The EXACT SAME number of degrees in a CIRCLE!!!!

          So, how can the modern mind create a rectangular room that has the same number of degrees as a circle????

          WHOA! This is heavy!!
          Signature

          "Ich bin en fuego!"
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107453].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
            ... as a part of the whole. The entire Great Pyramid is a series of formulaes. You can't see the whole forest when your face is buried in a tree.

            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            Now THAT is really something! I must be living in some sort of mystical dwelling. How can I tell?

            It's built using 90-degree angles! FOUR OF THEM...that adds up to 360!

            360!!!

            The EXACT SAME number of degrees in a CIRCLE!!!!

            So, how can the modern mind create a rectangular room that has the same number of degrees as a circle????

            WHOA! This is heavy!!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107593].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
              Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post

              ... as a part of the whole. The entire Great Pyramid is a series of formulaes. You can't see the whole forest when your face is buried in a tree.
              WHOA! WHOA!

              This is getting freaky!

              Now you're saying the pyramids were made out of faces? Or trees? BOTH?!

              Amazing.
              Signature

              "Ich bin en fuego!"
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107623].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                WHOA! WHOA!

                This is getting freaky!

                Now you're saying the pyramids were made out of faces? Or trees? BOTH?!

                Amazing.
                C'mon Mike, let's try to keep some semblance of civility here.

                This is actually one of the less brain dead threads we've had here in a while.

                It ain't much, but it isn't "What's Your Favorite Crayon Color", either.
                Signature
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107691].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                  Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

                  C'mon Mike, let's try to keep some semblance of civility here.

                  This is actually one of the less brain dead threads we've had here in a while.

                  It ain't much, but it isn't "What's Your Favorite Crayon Color", either.
                  Just havin' fun, Bill.

                  Being goofy is all.

                  And with that...I leave the thread to the more civil among us.
                  Signature

                  "Ich bin en fuego!"
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107764].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
              Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post

              ... as a part of the whole. The entire Great Pyramid is a series of formulaes. You can't see the whole forest when your face is buried in a tree.

              You can read anything into anything because everything is everything.

              That is also a part of the whole.


              Although I do agree that the triangular shape (itself) is an illustration by ancient scholars of 'the masses to the King' type ideal. 'The wide gate to the narrow path.'

              They are pyramids, one of the most basic building types around.

              The triangular shape has been used as a symbol, and buildings, by far more people than the Egyptians, (or aliens, whichever you prefer)

              I even read something once (by so called experts) that said all ancient built mysteries, were in the line of the old equator....now that is a stretch
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107653].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author myob
                All of the pyramids have different angles of inclination. The early ones were experimental, some even collapsed and - what's up with the Bent Pyramid? Can aliens say "Oops!"?
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107686].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
                Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

                They are pyramids, one of the most basic building types around.

                The triangular shape has been used as a symbol, and buildings, by far more people than the Egyptians, (or aliens, whichever you prefer)
                Ask a 3 year old to pour a bucket of dry sand on the beach and what do you get...
                Signature
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107702].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
                  Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

                  C'mon Mike, let's try to keep some semblance of civility here.

                  This is actually one of the less brain dead threads we've had here in a while.

                  It ain't much, but it isn't "What's Your Favorite Crayon Color", either.
                  Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

                  Ask a 3 year old to pour a bucket of dry sand on the beach and what do get...

                  You know Bill I fully expect to wake up in the morn to a thread titled, "What's your favorite Crayola" Thanks...

                  "Bucket of sand on the beach" good analogy and exactly.

                  As some know I spent some time in the building trade.
                  What really fascinates me are the towers in Kuala Lumpur and now Dubai...I mean, how do they do the elevators, the plumbing, pump the water up to the roof (or higher floors) for heated water (which is common gravity feed technique for high rises), the logistics and engineering was no easy feat. That is fascinating, even to me
                  But there is a logical explanation in the end...

                  although I do hear they all point towards my house...go figure.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4107757].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
                If you study advanced mathematics or have an advanced background in engineering science, you would be quite shocked to find mathematical perfection in the formulaes found in the Great Pyramid. The mathematic formulaes found in the Great Pyramid are so perfect, it boggles the scientific mind.

                All recognized advanced astronomical structures around the world were built on a very specific equatorial line, no matter which ancient culture it came from. They all point to the constellation of Orion as Orion appeared in our skies at 14,500 BC. That piece of info alone is quite amazing and could leads to pages upon pages of discussion and debate.

                Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

                You can read anything into anything because everything is everything.

                That is also a part of the whole.


                Although I do agree that the triangular shape (itself) is an illustration by ancient scholars of 'the masses to the King' type ideal. 'The wide gate to the narrow path.'

                They are pyramids, one of the most basic building types around.

                The triangular shape has been used as a symbol, and buildings, by far more people than the Egyptians, (or aliens, whichever you prefer)

                I even read something once (by so called experts) that said all ancient built mysteries, were in the line of the old equator....now that is a stretch
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4111647].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author bravo75
                  Quite true. Also the high probability that the Sphinx's head was re carved.
                  It more than likely used to be a lion's head to reflect the time it was built. The time of Leo (The Sun is the ruling planet of Leo) about 12,000 ago by the sun gods.
                  Pharaoh Khafre had his sub ordinates re-shape it to resemble him some 7000 years later.

                  Should have the shills jumping on here any minute now.



                  Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post

                  If you study advanced mathematics or have an advanced background in engineering science, you would be quite shocked to find mathematical perfection in the formulaes found in the Great Pyramid. The mathematic formulaes found in the Great Pyramid are so perfect, it boggles the scientific mind.

                  All recognized advanced astronomical structures around the world were built on a very specific equatorial line, no matter which ancient culture it came from. They all point to the constellation of Orion as Orion appeared in our skies at 14,500 BC. That piece of info alone is quite amazing and could leads to pages upon pages of discussion and debate.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4111784].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
                    Bravo, what you will find amazing about the Great Sphynx is that it was actually a representation of a priestess who was killed out of fear of the enormous access to the power from the Source. Most of those abilities and use of energies has been lost, but is once again beginning to re-emerge in our new generations being born and to come. (The new-agers call them Indigo, or children of the Blue Ray. In this country, they are misunderstood for now and fed diets of Ritalin to slow them down. In other countries, such as China, these children are being sent to special schools that recognize the faster frequency and thought patterns of their brains ((much faster than the average human)), and are being taught how to focus and harness their higher brainwave frequency. The schools are creating out future geniuses). This is just one manifestation of the many of the evolutionary process we are currently beginning to undergo as a species. As a whole, the resonant energy frequency of this planet is increasing, hence the elevation of Schumann frequency, as well as the biological, socio-economic, political and planetary changes we are beginning to exhibit or manifest.

                    Going back to the discussion of the Great Sphynx, there are ONLY 2 accurate representations of the original Sphynx in, of all places, the USA that I am aware of based on the copies of documents I have. The Sphynx adorning the entry way of the Scottish Rite Temple in Kansas City, Missouri is about as close to the original as it gets. The other close semblance, are the male headed sphynx at the Scottish Rite Temple HQ in Washington, D.C. All I can say is, the original architect and scuplter Jorgan Dreyer, a Mason, must have had access or insight to some of the non-public information I have had to my good fortune of friends and contacts in foreign governments.

                    Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

                    Quite true. Also the high probability that the Sphinx's head was re carved.
                    It more than likely used to be a lion's head to reflect the time it was built. The time of Leo (The Sun is the ruling planet of Leo) about 12,000 ago by the sun gods.
                    Pharaoh Khafre had his sub ordinates re-shape it to resemble him some 7000 years later.

                    Should have the shills jumping on here any minute now.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4111892].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author dgmufasa
                  If you have time, check out The Pyramid Code here:
                  Robert Bauval (the guy who discovered the Orion Correlation Theory) and John Anthony West & Robert Schoch (the guys who determined the Sphynx was either 10,600 years old or 36,000 years old thru PHYSICAL evidence - i.e. water erosion) are in this documentary.

                  Was in Egypt years ago, saw Great Pyramids - no slaves built that. I took a guess when I was there and said "wouldn't it surprise the world to know that they were just power plants" - and - I was right. Think nuclear power plant except it got its energy from the sun.

                  The Dogon tribe (found by Lair Scranton) in Mali Africa have the similar symbols as Egypt. Quite fascinating actually - they have symbols that point to "String Theory", "Quantum Mechanics", "The Atom" and "Energy". Scranton believes the priests with this knowledge were descendants of those who were in Egypt and left (for whatever reason).

                  Oh BTW, ETs did not build pyramids (more misinformation out there), supposedly, the consciousness of regular 'ol man was MUCH higher back then (esp. during the golden age). We use 5 sense (6 if you want to try ESP). Supposedly, they had access to much, much more. Things go in cycles: gold, silver, bronze iron, bronze, silver, etc. Now, we are at the lowest consciousness level - quite obvious when you see the way the world works nowadays: called the "Age of Iron".
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6155376].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                    It's just a pile of rocks!

                    A lot of free time. A lot of cheap labor. Centuries to build them.

                    The Egyptians built them!

                    The whole video is good but if you want the definitive answer on who built the pyramids, jump to 3:56.


                    Joe Mobley
                    Signature

                    .

                    Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6155960].message }}
  • I Believe that Pharaoh Khufu it around 2530 B.C. and intended to last an eternity. That's what my professor told us..
    Signature
    Buy oil paintings-it will give character to your every room!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088092].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Nonsense. They were built around the time of the last ice age, Around 12,000 years ago. Long before the Egyptians.

      Originally Posted by paintingsgalore22 View Post

      I Believe that Pharaoh Khufu it around 2530 B.C. and intended to last an eternity. That's what my professor told us..
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088477].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        Nonsense. They were built around the time of the last ice age, Around 12,000 years ago. Long before the Egyptians.
        Citation missing here. There is not a trace of any such thing in the area prior to 5,000 years ago. Amateurs from the New Age perspective want this to be so, but there is no evidence at all that has been found in any place in Egypt and certainly not at Giza. :rolleyes:
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088654].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
          Historical archaeology has shown the inner structure of the Great Sphinx to be approximately 14,000 years old. Only the outer layer dates back to the Egyptian culture. How is this then explained? :confused:

          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          Citation missing here. There is not a trace of any such thing in the area prior to 5,000 years ago. Amateurs from the New Age perspective want this to be so, but there is no evidence at all that has been found in any place In Egypt and certainly not at Giza. :rolleyes:
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088698].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post

            Historical archaeology has shown the inner structure of the Great Sphinx to be approximately 14,000 years old. Only the outer layer dates back to the Egyptian culture. How is this then explained? :confused:
            Your premise is baseless, so why is an explanation needed? You are referring to pseudoarchaelogy, at best.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088803].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        And, bravo you keep producing preposterous claims with no citation or evidence, and completely ignoring the explanations offered to you. I am still waiting for your basis for this:

        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        Nonsense. They were built around the time of the last ice age, Around 12,000 years ago. Long before the Egyptians.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089226].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bravo75
          Myob, my claims are not preposterous.

          Here is just one of many links I have manage to dig up. If you are not interested in watching the whole video, watch from about 9:00 onwards, among other things, this is one of the many factors that bring me to the conclusion that the entire Giza plateau is a lot older than our mainstream scholars tell us.

          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          And, bravo you keep producing preposterous claims with no citation or evidence, and completely ignoring the explanations offered to you. I am still waiting for your basis for this:
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089276].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I do not "believe" the Egyptians buit the pyramids, because using the word "believe" hints that other options are plausible.

    I "KNOW" that the Egyptians built the pyramids.

    These kinds of threads always amaze me, and scare me a bit too. Are people REALLY serious about this kind of stuff?

    But the ensuing discussion proves that no amount of facts or logic can change someone's mind once they buy into "alternative theories". And yes, I know they will use the same argument saying that MY mind can't be changed, but it can...IF there is EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to do so.

    The sad part is that the REALITY is actually much more interesting than the other "theories"* people come up with.

    Oh, and there is another very common tactic being used here: "If you don't agree with my far out nonsense, then YOU must be a sheeple." LOL. Typical and predictable. When in fact, those who believe crackpot "theories" are proving their sheepleness to a much higher degree.

    All the best,
    Michael

    * The word "theory" isn't even accurate as it implies some semblence of scientific method, but I can't think of a better word right now.
    Signature

    "Ich bin en fuego!"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088407].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
      I don't want to chime in on your debate, but you "KNOW" the Egyptians built the pyramids? Really? Then, please also explain the models of gliders with cambered wing surfaces (they knew the science of aerodynamics and how lift is generated, meaning they understood fluid dynamics), as well as the pre-columbian gold delta winged airplanes complete with pilot's seats and control surfaces such as rudders and ailerons found, which the archaeologists promptly labeled as "jewelry" because they didn't know how to categorize such discoveries. These items are still archived in the Smithsonian. The reality of Archaeology is misinformation due to our own arrogance in the belief that all civilizations of the past were working only with stones, hammers and chisels.

      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      I do not "believe" the Egyptians buit the pyramids, because using the word "believe" hints that other options are plausible.

      I "KNOW" that the Egyptians built the pyramids.

      These kinds of threads always amaze me, and scare me a bit too. Are people REALLY serious about this kind of stuff?

      But the ensuing discussion proves that no amount of facts or logic can change someone's mind once they buy into "alternative theories". And yes, I know they will use the same argument saying that MY mind can't be changed, but it can...IF there is EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to do so.

      The sad part is that the REALITY is actually much more interesting than the other "theories"* people come up with.

      Oh, and there is another very common tactic being used here: "If you don't agree with my far out nonsense, then YOU must be a sheeple." LOL. Typical and predictable. When in fact, those who believe crackpot "theories" are proving their sheepleness to a much higher degree.

      All the best,
      Michael

      * The word "theory" isn't even accurate as it implies some semblence of scientific method, but I can't think of a better word right now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088608].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      I do not "believe" the Egyptians buit the pyramids, because using the word "believe" hints that other options are plausible.

      I "KNOW" that the Egyptians built the pyramids.

      These kinds of threads always amaze me, and scare me a bit too. Are people REALLY serious about this kind of stuff?

      But the ensuing discussion proves that no amount of facts or logic can change someone's mind once they buy into "alternative theories". And yes, I know they will use the same argument saying that MY mind can't be changed, but it can...IF there is EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to do so.

      The sad part is that the REALITY is actually much more interesting than the other "theories"* people come up with.

      Oh, and there is another very common tactic being used here: "If you don't agree with my far out nonsense, then YOU must be a sheeple." LOL. Typical and predictable. When in fact, those who believe crackpot "theories" are proving their sheepleness to a much higher degree.

      All the best,
      Michael

      * The word "theory" isn't even accurate as it implies some semblence of scientific method, but I can't think of a better word right now.
      Hey Michael,

      I agree. My own preferred theory was/is that the Egyptians used ramps that spiraled around the pyramid, eliminating the need for a mile long ramp as Bravo suggested. The ramp would still be a mile long, except it wraps around the pyramid instead of extending in a straight line...So a straight line ramp isn't necessary for the ramp theory.

      The detractors of this theory say that the steps of the pyrmid wouldn't provide a wide enough platform for them to work on.

      However, it isn't that hard to create platforms with a big enough base...All they have to do is create "upside down" steps and move them as needed.

      However, a few days ago I saw a program on Nat Geo that offered a new theory about there being internal ramps in the Great Pyramid. Like the host said, the theory isn't perfect, but it does fit better than any other. And I agree, so I strongly consider the new theory to be the best until proven wrong.

      There's many interesting facts about his theory, including the sonic(?) survey done by the French in the 1980s that show "low denisty" areas where the internal ramp would be in the computer model.

      Not only this, but there's another pyramid built only 100 years after the Great Pyramid that has eroded to the point that is shows a hidden internal ramp. So it's a fact that Egyptians did use internal ramps.

      However, this didn't affect Bravo's point of view nor his opinion one bit, as his mind has already been made up and refuses to even consider any new info, discounting it as "sheeple" bait.

      He was also given links to multiple sites with different means of cutting granite, one using copper and sand. But nothing has an impact.

      The he's offended when I call his posts "crap". He states as fact the pyramids were built 12,000 BC. Offers no proof or how they did it, then gets upset when facts are presented contrary to his statement of "fact".

      Plus, we know for a fact the Egyptians of the time had knowledge of levers, cranes, pulleys and counter-weights. If you can lift a 80 ton block with a crane, a single man can twist and turn it into place. Iron workers know this. And the use of counter weights make heavy lifting much easier. You just need enough trees to make a crane strong enough.

      "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

      More on Jean-Pierre Houdin internal ramp theory:

      french architect pyramids - Google Search

      BTW...Houdin applied for permission to research his theory, but was denied based on he wasn't considered an "expert" and that if the Egyptian authorities approved every theory for research there wouldn't be any pyramid left.

      Funny...I guess respecting the new theory of a "non expert" is being a sheeple to some.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088710].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
        Can't argue with that. That is proof that internal ramps were used in the other pyramids, but the Great Pyramid is yet up for debate. Egyptians definitely knew the usage of levers and pulleys, but it still doesn't explain their knowledge of aircraft with cambered wing surfaces, control surfaces such as ailrons and rudders and vehicles that look like the stereotypical UFO that the so called "gods" utilized... per Egyptian hieroglyphics. Proof in the pudding: Temple of Abydos

        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Hey Michael,

        I agree. My own preferred theory was/is that the Egyptians used ramps that spiraled around the pyramid, eliminating the need for a mile long ramp as Bravo suggested. The ramp would still be a mile long, except it wraps around the pyramid instead of extending in a straight line...So a straight line ramp isn't necessary for the ramp theory.

        The detractors of this theory say that the steps of the pyrmid wouldn't provide a wide enough platform for them to work on.

        However, it isn't that hard to create platforms with a big enough base...All they have to do is create "upside down" steps and move them as needed.

        However, a few days ago I saw a program on Nat Geo that offered a new theory about there being internal ramps in the Great Pyramid. Like the host said, the theory isn't perfect, but it does fit better than any other. And I agree, so I strongly consider the new theory to be the best until proven wrong.

        There's many interesting facts about his theory, including the sonic(?) survey done by the French in the 1980s that show "low denisty" areas where the internal ramp would be in the computer model.

        Not only this, but there's another pyramid built only 100 years after the Great Pyramid that has eroded to the point that is shows a hidden internal ramp. So it's a fact that Egyptians did use internal ramps.

        However, this didn't affect Bravo's point of view nor his opinion one bit, as his mind has already been made up and refuses to even consider any new info, discounting it as "sheeple" bait.

        He was also given links to multiple sites with different means of cutting granite, one using copper and sand. But nothing has an impact.

        The he's offended when I call his posts "crap". He states as fact the pyramids were built 12,000 BC. Offers no proof or how they did it, then gets upset when facts are presented contrary to his statement of "fact".

        Plus, we know for a fact the Egyptians of the time had knowledge of levers, cranes, pulleys and counter-weights. If you can lift a 80 ton block with a crane, a single man can twist and turn it into place. Iron workers know this. And the use of counter weights make heavy lifting much easier. You just need enough trees to make a crane strong enough.

        "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

        More on Jean-Pierre Houdin internal ramp theory:
        french architect pyramids - Google Search

        BTW...Houdin applied for permission to research his theory, but was denied based on he wasn't considered an "expert" and that if the Egyptian authorities approved every theory for research there wouldn't be any pyramid left.

        Funny...I guess respecting the new theory of a "non expert" is being a sheeple to some.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088748].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
          I think it is a good idea to keep an open mind and evaluate the facts as they become available. I am really looking forward to the day they open access to the paw of the Sphinx where a hallway and rooms are known to exist. That timeline should coincide nicely with the incremental release of various other bits and pieces of info that may change the perception of all doubters.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088795].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post

          Can't argue with that. That is proof that internal ramps were used in the other pyramids, but the Great Pyramid is yet up for debate. Egyptians definitely knew the usage of levers and pulleys, but it still doesn't explain their knowledge of aircraft with cambered wing surfaces, control surfaces such as ailrons and rudders and vehicles that look like the stereotypical UFO that the so called "gods" utilized... per Egyptian hieroglyphics. Proof in the pudding: Temple of Abidos
          Ambiguous images that seem clear based on present knowledge don't prove the Egyptians knew of the thnigs you mentioned.

          In other words, we are applying our MODERN knowledge to ANCIENT images. We don't know exactly what it is, but to us it looks like something we're familiar with, so it's tagged with a modern label by some people.

          It proves nothing.

          Furthermore, there is evidence that some of the photos were retouched. But even if they weren't, there is the possibility that later generations could have tried to "edit" the images themselves. Plus, what about erosion or aging?

          All the best,
          Michael
          Signature

          "Ich bin en fuego!"
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088889].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            Ambiguous images that seem clear based on present knowledge don't prove the Egyptians knew of the thnigs you mentioned.

            In other words, we are applying our MODERN knowledge to ANCIENT images. We don't know exactly what it is, but to us it looks like something we're familiar with, so it's tagged with a modern label by some people.

            It proves nothing.

            All the best,
            Michael
            Yet they discount all the pictures of Hemiunu at the site, who is believed to be the architect of the Great Pyramid and is himself buried on the site, a great honor indeed.

            BTW, according to the pics, Hemiunu was a fat guy and clearly shows that the Egyptians didn't have the technology for a "man-bra". But being a fat guy in anceint Egypt was a clear sign of status and importance.

            And, some believe the Egyptians had knowledge of kites...Which also explains flying objects.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088941].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Yet they discount all the pictures of Hemiunu at the site, who is believed to be the architect of the Great Pyramid and is himself buried on the site, a great honor indeed.

              BTW, according to the pics, Hemiunu was a fat guy and clearly shows that the Egyptians didn't have the technology for a "man-bra". But being a fat guy in anceint Egypt was a clear sign of status and importance.

              And, some believe the Egyptians had knowledge of kites...Which also explains flying objects.
              They also had knowledge of BIRDS.



              Seriously, one of the "UFO" glyphs looks like it could have been a fat bird.

              Just sayin'.

              All the best,
              Michael
              Signature

              "Ich bin en fuego!"
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089002].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Interesting thoughts....But of course, completely wrong!

      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      I do not "believe" the Egyptians buit the pyramids, because using the word "believe" hints that other options are plausible.

      I "KNOW" that the Egyptians built the pyramids.

      These kinds of threads always amaze me, and scare me a bit too. Are people REALLY serious about this kind of stuff?

      But the ensuing discussion proves that no amount of facts or logic can change someone's mind once they buy into "alternative theories". And yes, I know they will use the same argument saying that MY mind can't be changed, but it can...IF there is EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to do so.

      The sad part is that the REALITY is actually much more interesting than the other "theories"* people come up with.

      Oh, and there is another very common tactic being used here: "If you don't agree with my far out nonsense, then YOU must be a sheeple." LOL. Typical and predictable. When in fact, those who believe crackpot "theories" are proving their sheepleness to a much higher degree.

      All the best,
      Michael

      * The word "theory" isn't even accurate as it implies some semblence of scientific method, but I can't think of a better word right now.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4093544].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      You obviously know something the entire scientific community and egyptologists must have overlooked.


      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      I do not "believe" the Egyptians buit the pyramids, because using the word "believe" hints that other options are plausible.

      I "KNOW" that the Egyptians built the pyramids.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4095097].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

        You obviously know something the entire scientific community and egyptologists must have overlooked.
        So who built them, the Australians?

        I'm pretty sure the standard belief is that the Egyptians built the pyramids.

        But thanks for the sarcasm.



        ~Michael
        Signature

        "Ich bin en fuego!"
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4095181].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Good Lord, the loonies have taken over the asylum.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088585].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Good Lord, the loonies have taken over the asylum.
      Yep, and post 1 proves it.



      ~Michael
      Signature

      "Ich bin en fuego!"
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4088601].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Glad we got that out of the way. I was getting worried there for a sec.
    Ancient granite and diroite structures that can be found all over the world ) Taj Mahal, Cusco's Incan Wall, Easter Island's statues, the Egyptian Pyramids, Angkor Wat, Borobudur, Tihuanaco, Tenochtitlan the Iranian Persepolis, the Greek Parthenon, Stonehenge, and Chartres Cathedral) were transported Hundreds of miles with giant kites and fat birds. They used wet paper towles to quarry the second hardest stone known to man.
    They were then cut with olive oil and desert sand and set into place so precise that you can't fit a razor blade between the joints. Not to mention that in some circumstances 80,000 kilogram diorite slabs were lifted 300 Hundred feet into the air.

    Edit. A team of over priviliged pseudo scientists, spending three months to put a 2 inch deep, 6 inch wide hole in a piece of Limestone doesn't debunk anything. If anything, it adds to the mystery.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089118].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    Totally agree. However, and I have mentioned this several times, we have to give them credit and not discredit them when they tell us very clearly that they were not the builders but the inheritors of these structures.

    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Ancient people were every bit as clever and resourceful as we are --probably more so, since they had less technology to rely on.

    Give credit where it's due.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089307].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

    My claim to fame is meeting RUN DMC when I was 13. I also met Erik van Danniken once.
    Now I get it...

    No wonder you believe the Egyptians did not build the pyramids.

    You met one of the original hucksters in person. Erik van Danniken.

    Erich von Däniken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Note: If the wikipedia info is to be believed, He has a long history of making stuff up.


    TL
    Signature

    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089354].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      I met him on a holiday in Switzerland when I was 17. I didn't even know who he was at the time but my old fella did.

      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Now I get it...

      No wonder you believe the Egyptians did not build the pyramids.

      You met one of the original hucksters in person. Erik van Danniken.

      Erich von Däniken - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Note: If the wikipedia info is to be believed, He has a long history of making stuff up.


      TL
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4089382].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Why are you showing stonework from architecture from the Americas as proof of what the Egyptians could or couldn't do?

      And in the Egyptian pics, notice how they didn't even have the tech for arches, let alone domes? How advanced is that?

      Also, for the Egyptian stonework, which are limestone and which are granite? Remember, there's only a few dozen of the blocks in the Great Pyramid that are actually granite, used to support the roof of the King's Chamber...The other 2.3 million are limestone. Hard to tell, but the stones in the bottom pic look more like limestone to me.
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      Kurt, this thread has long derailed form Egypt. It has been veered in the inevitable direction of ancient structures.
      Not by me...I've stayed on subject with my posts, which brings us back to your pictures, which were a response to my post about carving/cutting granite.

      So back on this subject....Not a single picture you posted was granite. Mesoamerican pyramids were all made from limestone. The pictures you posted that were Egyptian were limestone.

      It easy to tell the masonary apart, as Egyptians only stacked blocks in an inverted T config, although there is one place the Great Pyramid where they are stacked in + configs. I'll let you figure out where this was...

      And do you know what I found out in my reading yesterday? Limestone is actually even softer when it is still in the ground. It doesn't really harden until after it's quarried. So all those pictures you posted of limestone don't prove a thing when it comes to chipping/grinding granite.

      But now back to granite. The few granite blocks in the Great Pyramid aren't even close to being the biggest blocks of granite cut by the Egyptians. It's the obelisks they cut.

      There's a site in Egypt called the Unfinished Obelisk:
      The Unfinished Obelisk, Egypt.

      It would have been the biggest obelisk ever cut, but it cracked during the cutting and was abondoned. It's so big, that according to my estimates, it's 20 times bigger than the largest granite blocks used as the roof in the King's Chamber.

      Something else I learned yesterday...Round dolerite stones are found at the site.

      It is now known that the main tool employed for carving the granite were small balls of Dolerite which is a mineral harder than granite, as seen at the open air museum/quarry at Aswan, Egypt today. The discovery of this obelisk and several others in their unfinished states allows us to see how they were made. The means of separating the stone from the bedrock was a common technique used around the ancient world, in which small cavities were made in the stone, which were then filled with wood, which was soaked in water causing it to expand (See photo, right. Aswan, Egypt)

      The Unfinished Obelisk, Egypt.
      Answan is the same area the granite for the King's Chamber was quarried. Dolerite is the "secret" to "cutting" granite. And if dolerite can be used to create obelisks, it can surely be used to chisel the much smaller blocks of granite used in the Great Pyramid.

      BTW, I never said they used olive oil. YOU DID. And I don't appreciate it, by either you or Sal. This is part of what I call "crap", you putting words in my mouth. A classic strawman fallacy that you and Sal made up. If you don't want your posts called crap, please don't put words in my mouth, then argue against what you made up for me. That is crap.

      Word for the day: Dolerite.
      dolerite - Google Search
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4095527].message }}
  • Oh man, I love the conspiracy theorists. Yes the pyramids are an impressive feat of engineering even by today's standards, but is it so hard to believe that thousands of slaves were worked to death for many years to build them? There have been many suggestions on how the pyramids could be built without the use of modern machinery, I believe these scenarios are far more likely than any supernatural/extraterrestrial explanation I've heard.
    Signature
    Custom USB Flash Drives - The perfect supplement to your online marketing.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4090212].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by talesofinterestdotnet View Post

      Oh man, I love the conspiracy theorists. Yes the pyramids are an impressive feat of engineering even by today's standards, but is it so hard to believe that thousands of slaves were worked to death for many years to build them? There have been many suggestions on how the pyramids could be built without the use of modern machinery, I believe these scenarios are far more likely than any supernatural/extraterrestrial explanation I've heard.
      You're right about the rids and they were not built by slaves.

      My daughter said they were talking about Egypt in class one day, and the students wanted to know if they were built by slaves.

      The teacher said yes but a couple days later she corrected the misinformation.

      Also, the workers were not worked to death.

      TL
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain