Doctors

by 50 replies
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I rarely have anything kind to say about doctors, and here's an example why.
As some know I recently made a visit to the hospital.
By the time I arrived I was feeling fine and it was determined that the hospital would just determine what had caused the problem I had. I like I said I was feeling fine when I got there and from the 2 EKG's they had from On-call and the ambulance they knew immediately that what ever the episode was it was over.
I saw 1 cardiologist in the ER who just told me about the tests that they might order for me. From there I got a room for the night so they could keep an eye on me and in the morning do a nuclear stress test.
After the stress test a doctor came in, introduced himself, and told me to see my primary care doctor and take what ever he prescribed. After I laughed at him and told him I valued my health to much to do that he left. Total time less then 10 minutes.
Today I got his bill. $908! $64 twice for interpreting and reporting an EKG and get this, $780 for 1 hour of critical care:confused:
Need I mention that at no time was I considered in critical condition.
The only thing that was considered critical was in not eating or drinking anything after midnight because of the stress test.

Naturally I called the billing company to find out how to dispute the bill.
Bottom line, he may get the $128 for reading the EKG's but he can B.M.S.M.A. if he thinks I'm paying him 780 for telling me to see another doctor and let them poison me.
This is one of the reasons we have crap health care in the U.S.

I forgot to mention this wasn't even the doctor that I was assigned to.
The doctor I was assigned to saw me twice. Once in the morning to update me on what they thought was going on and to explain the stress test. He also gave me the results of the test, told me what to do if it happened again and discharged me.
#off topic forum
  • Statistics show you are ten times more likely in the US to die of mistakes made by hospitals than you are to die of a violent crime.

    Hospitals are a good place to stay away from.

    And the billing is just rediculous. Years ago when my wife lost the ability to walk unassisted they gave her a cane to try to use before she eventually ended up using a walker.

    When the first bill arrived that had a charge for the RENTED cane included it was $79.00 a month to rent the $19.00 cane.

    We called them up and told them to pound sand and they said, just keep the cane and never billed her insurance again for it.

    Unbelievable what they bill things at...
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    • Tell me about it
      I did get a laugh out of the lunch they served me.
      Now keep in mind the section I was in was all heart patience's and I got the same meal as they did who weren't on a special diet.
      The served me meatloaf with gravy, cream of potato soup, mashed potatoes, and what i think started as green beans but where closer to brown. Apparently they figured if I arrived healthy at least they could clog a few arteries for me When I asked for some fresh fruit and a veg. salad I got a strange look. I ended up with a wilted lettuce salad and jello. I guess fresh fruit was asking for to much.
  • Last year I broke the talus bone in my foot. I had to pay $169.00 for an air cast before they would fit me for one. :rolleyes:

    They did not provide a billing feature. Pay now, or go without.
  • What, no 12 dollar aspirin to go, Thom?

    I don't know if you have county hospitals there in NY.

    When I was growing up in LA, you either had insurance or you ended up at county...behind 300 other people..

    I still have bad problems with my hand and wrist I broke very badly, and then walked out of county because I was going to be there forever. I let it heal by itself, on top of that I may have gotten more problems from letting them play with it.

    The only time I did get in a timely manner was when my thumb was hanging off.
    Me and a gunshot victim.


    We had a lot of uses for duct tape back then...including keeping my thumb on, stab wounds etc.

    My thumb swole up from infection and one time the guy's lung collapsed during the night so had to go anyway, they found the tip of the blade in there..so duct tape wasn't a cure all...lol
    Pretty bad when your first resort is duct tape....

    The county hospitals, I could tell you so many stories of them screwing people up with infections, mistakes, resulting in deaths in at least two cases I personally know about.

    Directly giving my friends 8 year old son the wrong shot/medicine and killing him for a knee problem, was the worst....destroyed that guy's life. Thats the first time I learned there's a cap on the amount you can sue for.


    Either have a giant medical bill chasing you around or risk your life at county...pretty pathetic. But the only choice for some people.


    I have the VA now, telling you all the experiences me and people I know, with both the VA and counties...that I know first hand are true (I witnessed), would fill half this page if not more.


    Definitely challenge it.
    The medical profession is a sore point with me too.
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    • We don't have county hospitals upstate that I'm aware of.
      I did go to On-Call originally and the doctor there decided I should go to the hospital just to be safe.She said both the EKG and x-ray showed some minor abnormalities, nothing to worry about but worth having further tests don't to maybe detect a future problem in the making.
      The older doctor I was assigned to was pretty cool.
      He told me what happened and suggested that if it happened again to just take a couple anti-inflammatory drugs like Aleve or even aspirin.
      He also told me my heart and lungs where very strong and I only had minor bronchitis and emphysema from smoking. In fact he said it was so minor it wasn't worth talking about (yeah).

      But that young doctor that sent me that bill, he was useless.
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  • Hi Thom - I didn't know you had an 'episode'. Glad it was nothing serious (other than the gravy, meatloaf and of course the bill).

    I don't mean to be cavalier but that is way cheap there compared to here. (was this just the co-pay for insurance?)

    I spent 4 hours in emergency, got one lab test, 1 MRI and 2 pills - $9000. I got bills from every fricking person in the emergency room, the labs, and the machine (about $1000) and then oh wait the hospital. Total for episode = $9000

    (by the way I never even got a temp room in the emergency and spent the whole time on a gurney in the reception area)

    The good part is the hospital gave me 40% off - 20% for being uninsured and 20% for paying it all at once. So It was about $5500 for the hospital and for a tip an $80 prescription.

    You got off easy, Yo...
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    • That was just the bill from the one doctor who was useless. I found out I have Medicare when I was there, but it only covers 80% of the hospital bill.


      Jim they gave me a free aspirin at On-Call

      All I got in the hospital was one glycerin pill and two glycerin patches. When I asked why they said just to be safe:rolleyes:
  • Deja Vu all over again.
    I had to see the heart dr today for the follow up to the heart attack I had a month ago. It was important because I need him to clear me from his end to be considered to be put back on the transplant list.
    While he said I was healthy enough now, it will cost me over a grand for todays visit.
    On top of that,this was in their paperwork: If we send your bill to collections you agree to pay 33% interest on the attorney fees. Cripes,what a rip off. 33% interest on ANYTHING should be considered illegal. It was at one time.

    I know I have ranted about this before too,but what the heack,I'm on a roll.
    I do my dialysis at home. My wife helps me (She sticks the needles in my arm).
    They medical center ships of the supplies, and thats all they do.
    Yet the dr and medical center bill my insurance almost $2200 A DAY for my dialysis.
    Our system definitely needs an overhaul.
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    • Hell of a racket our health care system, isn't it.
      I wouldn't of signed that attorney part. If I was forced to in order for them to see me I would have it noted that it was under threat of lack of service.
      That's more like blackmail then anythings else, especially when they know you can't get a transplant unless you see this guy.
      It also is just more proof that the doctors here for the most part care more about their wallet then your health.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • While we are ranting about medical costs:

    They are going to make seniors pay more for medicare in the future. We can't 'survive bankruptcy as a nation' unless we 'overhaul' medicare. (medicare is part of social security btw)

    However nobody mentions the billions (LITERALLY) spent on FREE medical care for illegal aliens. Seems like that would be the first cut, no? (I mean the aliens not the care)

    They also don't mention seniors receiving social security+medicare who are legal immigrants and relatives of US citizen/immigrants - BUT who have never worked a day in the US or had one penny withheld from their paychecks (came here as seniors).

    Social security is not welfare - we PAY for it with EVERY paycheck we Ever EARNED...
  • Yep, your right Thom.I shouldn't have signed it. I thought about scratching it out and putting in 10%, bust as you surmised, I wanted to be seen and put back on the list,no matter what.
    I really resent what they do nowadays. They scan your insurance card (no biggie) and your drivers license.(Biggie! wtf do they need that for?)
    They also took a mug shot. Again,wtf do they need that for? I can't believe I let then do that,but I did. I'm getting senile.

    While I have run into a dr or two that do seem to care about me more than their wallet, they are few and far between.
    My kidney dr,who I thought very highly of, suddenly was gone.
    I went to my appointment and they told me I was being seen by someone else because my dr was no longer with "the practice".
    When I asked what happened I was told he and "the practice" had a difference of opinion on how things should be done,so "the practice" got rid of him. WTF!!??
    I was being cared for by a dr that I liked.I was a patient of the dr,not "the practice".
    I can't express how much I hat some of what I have to do and the hoops I have to jump through to get on/stay on the transplant list.
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    • I've run into a couple good ones myself Kim, but they are far and few.
      The orthopedic surgeon I went to for over twenty years was great. Because of him I can walk and I no longer have back problems. He did get in trouble with the 'group' he was in and finally retired because of them. Their problem? He tried to use exercise instead of surgery whenever he could.
      They couldn't bill as much for that as they could surgery.
      Honestly Kim I don't know what I would do if I where in your shoes.
      Every day I think about what you are going through and wish I could do something to help. On the other hand it scares the living crap out of me knowing you have to deal with our health care system and the doctors in it.
  • Some things are too serious to be in the corporate mentality.

    Medical is one, prisons are another.

    One certainly doesn't need to be a rocket surgeon to figure that out...:p
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    • The Post Office is another one. Just wait til Halburton buys it.

      You know that's the plan...
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  • If they just stopped 1/2 of the medicare fraud our medical costs would drop.
    Every time you see an ad for "let us deal with medicare for you" ,you are seeing a company that is milking and abusing the system.
    It wouldn't solve the problems, but it would be a good start.
  • Well, I once called a person who was SUPPOSED to be a nurse for an endocrinologist. She actually said the testes were NOT endocrine glands!

    From wikipedia:
    FUNNY! MANY "endocrinologists" are simply gynecologists that like to be called endocrinologists! GO FIGURE!

    I nearly died in 2005 because a QUACK in 2004 took my pulse the same way almost everyone else does, which is WRONG! The QUACK said my heart was fine. Had he taken my pulse, or blood pressure, the RIGHT way he could say "You may have valve damage, here's a prescription, take these pills, and see a cardiologist". He was a QUACK though, so my aorta nearly exploded only 2 MONTHS later!

    And it is SHOCKING how few nurses know ANYTHING!

    And when I was recovering from the open heart surgery, that meant my rib cage was held together by 3 metal ties, nurses tried to FORCE me to cough my brains out! Their reason? To keep me from getting pneumonia! You do ****NOT**** get pneumonia from operations! You do NOT get it from not coughing! You get it because of idiot nurses that JUST DON'T CARE! THAT is ALSO why MRSA exists.

    HECK, when they found out that I had a problem with my "heart", they put me on a HIGH greens NO icecream diet. Taking greens can counteract the warfarin and cause a STROKE! And there is NO reason why I can't have ICE CREAM! SURE, it is a heart valve. SURE, the aorta goes through the heart. I did NOT have a heart attack though.

    The medicare system is LUDICROUS! Some CHEAP THINGS, like orthotics for shoes, get HIGH PAY! Some other things, get very LOW pay!

    My mother's old folks home, which is VERY low cost, charges a FORTUNE! They go through medicare, and just EAT IT UP! THEN, they go through MEDI-CAL! But they are TOO EXPENSIVE, so they go through SOCIAL SECURITY! Frankly, I can't survive with her alienating vendors, alienating neighbors, calling 911 and constantly saying I was killed in an accident, calling me at all hours asking what time it is, having the hospitals, churches, and police call me, endangering people's lives, including her own, etc... So I HAVE to let them lock her up. She got a priest to free her, and he finally got to see that I was saying the truth. MONTHS later, he sent her back! Meanwhile, they just burn through money like it is NOTHING!

    And what do they give her? Weekly visits by a doctor maybe(probably little more than a nurse), some low cost drugs maybe, three meals a day, communal tv, a SMALL room with NO lock, limited furniture. She is generally not even allowed outside. And the cost is THOUSANDS of dollars a month. They basically figure the person has no reason to have any money, because THEY take care of everything.


    Steve
  • Well they have a proposal on the table to make medical school FREE because we have such a shortage of internist/primary care physicians in this country.

    Seems they all quit their private practices in protest of HMOs and all the reduced fees and magnormous insurance paperwork - I am sure they really love Medicare and all the medifares (welfare/disability etc). which I am sure always hit their bottom line as well.

    You never know - either we will have weirdos with their pants around their thighs and grabbing their crotches (today's youth) in the operating room! (Sleep tight)

    OR maybe they will be more compassionate if they don't have to pay an arm and a leg to get their degrees.

    Whatever, I am glad I will be dead by then.
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    • Make medical school FREE, after spending SO much time to make it EXPENSIVE!?!?!?
  • Maybe one reason doctors don't want to work in the US anymore is because they are expected by the heads of the system to do harm to people for money. Some doctors are just moving out of the country where they can practice as they see fit to help someone instead of doing more damage under force. They are also put under gag orders. The Medical/industrial complex owners are ruling over them like Nazis. So they are saying no. We really can't blame therm. You want cheap GOOD medical care - buy a plane ticket to India.

    America, the last time I looked, was 37th on the list for decent medical care (and falling) - which means practically all developed countries have better care than ours..........and it doesn't cost everything you will own for the rest of your life to get either.
  • I thought it was just doctors from our area alone that behave like that. I personally was prescribed physiotherapy sessions that i didn't need and the bill could change each and every visit.
  • Just thought I'd mention that it's not the doctors who set the prices for things.

    Sorry...didn't mean to interrupt the doctor bashing.

    Carry on.

    ~Michael
    • [1] reply
    • What he is charging is outrageous Mike.
      But also like I said before.
      1.I was never considered critical.
      2. This doctor saw me for less then 10 minutes and then only to tell me to see my primary care doctor and take whatever they prescribed.
      It doesn't matter who sets the prices, it was the doctor who lied about what he did and submitted the bill.
      Bottom line is he was just looking for an excuse to bill someone.
      Sorry you consider that doctor bashing
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  • The costs do seem excessively high but there are other factors at play. For example, Physician Liability Insurance

    Understanding the Physician Liability Insurance Crisis - Oct 2002 - Family Practice Management

    Doctors in some specialties in the US pay up to $200,000 a year. Just where is the cost going to come from?

    With medical negligence claims running sky high, a lot of unnecessary investigations are carried out so that the doctors can cover themselves.

    Huge medical negligence claims is one of the reasons why healthcare cost much more in the US. Also in America, many doctors tend to regard a patient as a potential litigant and enemy.
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    • True Derek.
      But they have brought it on themselves.
      Again claiming I was under his 'critical care' for an hour?
      Wouldn't I have to be in critical condition for that?
      All three EKG's where closer to normal then they where anything else.
      By the time I arrived at the hospital I was around 98% pain free.

      This was just a case of a doctor figuring he was billing an insurance company who wouldn't question his bill.
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  • I have a family doctor that now works in a pretty nice clinic that I go see once a year because he doesn't always charge for everything since he's seen myself and 2 prior generations. Other than that, I wouldn't ever go. If I'm not dying or something hanging off, forget about the hospital. I got in a wreck once and had to go down and get stitches, but thank God the paramedic told me I could go with them and pay like $500 for the ride, or have someone take me. Someone took me.

    In DFW, we have county hospitals. They are ridiculous crap. If you go at anytime of the day, you have like 100 people it seems to wait behind. Half of those are predictably illegals since we have a huge problem here the news reports. One reason why the county hospital doctors are so bad is because they have to see so many patients per day, they kind of lose any bedside manner, and because of all of the people, illegals included, that don't pay their bill, their fees have gone up as well as what insurance covers and how much it costs here.

    If you go to county, just the visit is around $500 or so, not including any tests or other awesome gifts you get that is shown on your bill. Surprise!! If you go to a privatized hospital, it can be anywhere from $800 on up with the same surprise conditions. I refuse to go pay for a doctor to prescribe something I don't need or charge me an exorbitant amount for things that should cost way less.
  • yeah, some suck...but not ALL are bad..
  • The speed at which some of the health care workers want your money can be frightening!
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    • So today I get the hospital bill.
      They're as bad as the doctors.
      First item on the bill, $2123 for 1 day in intensive care.
      Now I've seen ICU at hospitals before, and I wasn't in one.
      I was in a regular 2 bed room with only a portable heart monitor on, free to roam as I choose.
      I already mentioned the artery clogging lunch they gave me, but didn't mention the mac and cheese they gave me for dinner on the 10th.
      What a joke our medical system is.
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  • Thom,
    I can't agree with you more.
    Since I regularly get "invoices" billing me anywhere from 50k-150k for 1-2 weeks worth of dialysis,the sticker shock has worn off, but it still irritates the crap out of me.
    If I actually had to pay what was being invoiced I would probably have found someone to put me out of my misery.
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    • It's all a game they are playing.
      I know you see this more then me.
      When we get sick the doctors and hospitals keep us alive long enough to suck all the money out of the condition as they can.
      Then they either heal you or let you die.

      I really need to just deal with this stuff and let it go, but I can't.
      Evey time I try, I think about people I know who have to rely on our health care system to stay alive, and the loved ones I've lost because of the system.
      It's the bills that get me started.
      But it's also what they call the care you receive.
      For example calling an over night stay in a regular hospital room with no restrictions except not eating or drinking after midnight intensive care.
      Or calling a 10 minute chat an hour of critical care.
      It's clear the focus is on the money and not the patient.
      That has to change.
      I got a real bug up my ass over this, so I guess it's time to take on our health care system.
  • well, this is semi related to health care.
    I saw a lawyer this morning about the accident I was in January 15th of this year.
    The one my insurance claimed I had the wrong covergae therefore they didnt have to cover much.
    The insurance company told me last week my claim was worth about 13k, with 12K of that going to medical bills, leaving me for pain and suffering and property damage about 1K.

    Today the lawyer I saw feels he can get me a much better settlement. I explained my only guaranteed income was my disability. He told me don't worry,this would be a contingency case,and it wont cost a dime out of pocket.
    That made it a relatively good day so far.

    By the way, today is also my younger brothers birthday.He would have been 53 today if he had lived.
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    • Most of the lawyers around here handle those types of cases the same way.
      Seems fair to me. First they normally won't take the case unless they are sure they can win. Second when they win they take their fee out of what you where awarded. I've dealt with a couple of lawyers in the past under similar circumstances. The first time I was in an accident and the person who caused it was uninsured. I wanted to sue him for medical bills, loss of wages and the repairs to my bike. The lawyer I got agreed to take the case as a contingency case. He got back to me a week later with the news that the person I wanted to sue had less then I did and I would end up taking everything he owned (which wasn't much). I declined to sue, but asked the lawyer to bill me for what he did. At that time the lawyer got $60 an hour.
      Just the two visits I had with him came to two hours and he had to spend at least that much time investigating the case yet he only billed me for 1 hour.
      The second time was a case against NYS disability. That lawyer told me if he won the case my fee would be xx.xx (I don't remember the exact amount), but if he lost his fee would be $0. He won, I paid the fee and we where both happy.

      Lawyers are like doctors. The 10% that are good, give the other 90% a bad name
  • Thom - I have beefs with the system that go all the way back to when I was a kid. They were treating my asthma with a "new" drug (i.e. experimental) that they knew was hurting me just so they could study the effects and the whole time my parent's wallet and insurance company were getting milked. I had to go outside of the country to find out what was being done. Knowing what our medical/industrial complex is doing to people is enough to make you sick on its own. My mother was a victim, too. It killed her.

    Cancer? They know how to cure it. They know what chemo can do - and they know two elements they could shoot into a tumor to make the chemo kill only cancerous cells and leave healthy ones alone. It is ILLEGAL in the US for them to use it. Does that sound like a system dedicated to saving people's lives?

    There are a lot of doctors that would actually help people if there were a way to do so without getting their licenses ripped out from under them. Instead they are given commissions to give you drugs that will make and keep you sick while the top dogs get so filthy rich that it's despicable. The doctors that are forced to use their "cures" and controls end up having to charge more because of insurances they need when problems arise because they followed the required methods.

    If you are sick - find out which country has the best rates of success for your illness and are not required to treat under laws fashioned by pharmaceutical companies and buy a plane ticket.
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    • I definitely agree with the bolded part of what you said. that just makes a lot of sense.

      ~Michael
  • Sal,
    I can't remember where my brother went, but he needed a couple of root canals done.
    If you have ever had one done here in the states you know what the charge is outrageous.
    Anyway, he went somewhere else, ( I want to say Dominican Republic) had all the dental work he needed done, had a 2 week vacation and came back home all cheaper than if he had the work done here in the states.
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    • That wouldn't be hard Kim - my root canal cost 2 grand! And I was lied to as a bonus. I had asked them to use something that didn't contain amalgam and the *******s told me there was no such thing. If that had been about a year and a half later - I would have known that was BS and would have reported his butt for it. By the time I found out, I had moved and can't even remember who exactly it was that pulled that crap on me.
      If I ever go back there - I WILL find out.
  • Yeah...like I said.

    LOL
  • Wow this is incredible. I am glad I live in the best country in the world. My son was in hospital for a day last week and we didn't pay a cent. We just got the ambulance bill which was $870 for a 20 minute trip but I have ambulance cover which I hope will cover most of that. Our public hospital system here doesn't cost us anything. When I was in hospital when I had my last baby, I was in there for 5 days and I had a private room and my baby was in the neo-natal unit for 4 days - didn't pay a cent!

    People here sometimes complain about our system, but reading this thread, I think we have the best system in the world!
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  • Bulgaria is below the US? I want to see independent stats. Wonder where I'd find a set of THOSE? LMAO.
  • Those stats were created in 2000 though and I guess it depends on the criteria they use. Reading this thread I'm surprised we are only 5 above you guys, I would have thought we would be higher. Maybe those higher countries have extra, extra good health systems
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    Doctors

    I rarely have anything kind to say about doctors, and here's an example why. As some know I recently made a visit to the hospital. By the time I arrived I was feeling fine and it was determined that the hospital would just determine what had caused the problem I had. I like I said I was feeling fine when I got there and from the 2 EKG's they had from On-call and the ambulance they knew immediately that what ever the episode was it was over.