Self Help Guru Convicted

13 years ago

I think that its crazy how people will invest everything to basically feel better about themselves. I feel for them... I even pray for them from time to time.

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Tom E

13 years ago

All of a sudden, the movie "The Secret" lost a lot of credibility.

Don't get me wrong, I get it - the guy obviously has a lot of demons/issues - otherwise something like this wouldn't happen. But Law Of Attraction Newbies watching the Secret for the first time will probably take it as a sign that "the law of attraction doesn't work".

It will be very interesting to see how much time he gets. This is a major scandal in the LOA/Self help community.

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travlinguy

13 years ago

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

All of a sudden, the movie "The Secret" lost a lot of credibility.

Don't get me wrong, I get it - the guy obviously has a lot of demons/issues - otherwise something like this wouldn't happen. But Law Of Attraction Newbies watching the Secret for the first time will probably take it as a sign that "the law of attraction doesn't work".

It will be very interesting to see how much time he gets. This is a major scandal in the LOA/Self help community.

How does The Secret or LOA suffer from this? This guy had his own program. He insisted people continue certain activities when they complained they were worn out. This incident is pretty compartmentalized and should not reflect badly on anyone but the person(s) directly responsible.

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Richard Van 13 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

How does The Secret or LOA suffer from this?

It doesn't Travinguy but it just goes to show James wasn't using the LOA properly, he wasn't visualising the right stuff. :p
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Tom E

13 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

How does The Secret or LOA suffer from this? This guy had his own program. He insisted people continue certain activities when they complained they were worn out. This incident is pretty compartmentalized and should not reflect badly on anyone but the person(s) directly responsible.

Read my post again travlinguy - I specifically said that Law Of Attraction Newbies watching the Secret for the first time will probably take it as a sign that "the law of attraction doesn't work".

Meaning that someone completely unfamiliar with LOA will see him featured in The Secret and put what they think is 2 and 2 together and make it reflect upon the movie, and in turn LOA. Because not everyone may have the wisdom to see it otherwise.

Hope that clears it up for ya.

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Floyd Fisher

13 years ago

Originally Posted by travlinguy

How does The Secret or LOA suffer from this? This guy had his own program. He insisted people continue certain activities when they complained they were worn out. This incident is pretty compartmentalized and should not reflect badly on anyone but the person(s) directly responsible.

You really should watch the Secret with someone who knows a ton about some of the things they spout....they will point out the flaws in what they are saying.

For example the keep saying that in the physical realm, like attracts like. Really? As an electronics technician, I can tell you that is bunk. Electricity (which is the bedrock of electronics) works on the principal of opposites attracting. If negative wasn't attracted to positive...electricity would not work...and neither would electronics.

Here's a trick you can try at home....get two magnets with north and south poles....watch how the opposite poles (north and south) are attracted to each other...and the like poles are repelled.

Don't get me wrong...there is nothing wrong with being an optimist and thinking positive...but that movie was completely out of wack. Now I know why...some in it were obvious frauds.

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HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher

You really should watch the Secret with someone who knows a ton about some of the things they spout....they will point out the flaws in what they are saying.

For example the keep saying that in the physical realm, like attracts like. Really? As an electronics technician, I can tell you that is bunk. Electricity (which is the bedrock of electronics) works on the principal of opposites attracting. If negative wasn't attracted to positive...electricity would not work...and neither would electronics.

Here's a trick you can try at home....get two magnets with north and south poles....watch how the opposite poles (north and south) are attracted to each other...and the like poles are repelled.

Don't get me wrong...there is nothing wrong with being an optimist and thinking positive...but that movie was completely out of wack. Now I know why...some in it were obvious frauds.

I don't know what people reallly got so hyped about that movie for in the first place - it wasn't created by the great enlightened philosophical minds or by physicists -- it was a bunch of marketers. There are principles to LOA that do hold water - but that was marketing, pure and simple.

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Laurie Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I don't know what people reallly got so hyped about that movie for in the first place - it wasn't created by the great enlightened philosophical minds or by physicists -- it was a bunch of marketers. There are principles to LOA that do hold water - but that was marketing, pure and simple.

I am going to post some more commentary after supper here, but The Secret is no new thing, this is all a hyped up version of what Napoleon Hill taught us all way back when. All they did, was add a few new things to it and twist and turn it into what they needed to sell along with it. And now it has come to the cost of my people, their culture, way of life and SACRED traditions. I respect all people of all cultures and their beliefs and would stand proud beside anyone whom has had this happen to them.

A little fact, our native culture is the most exploited culture in the world, we've got more imitators than any other culture.

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mojojuju

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

A little fact, our native culture is the most exploited culture in the world, we've got more imitators than any other culture.

How do you even think you can measure that?

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Laurie Rogers

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mojojuju

How do you even think you can measure that?

How can you tell me I can't? I am a part of that culture and know it is fact. Would you like to come walk in my world for a week? MORE rip off's of Native American Indians have occurred since the 50's and it's still happening and if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion. Should I pull out some movie names from back then up until now? Should I make a list of all the fake natives and fake shaman's that are out there? Because I can do it without a hitch. Should I educate you on the fact that our people were kidnapped and sent to boarding schools to "have the indian beaten out of them?" Should I educate you on the fact that more than 500,000 children are missing that attended those schools? Should I educate you on the fact that 1,000's of children have been taken from their homes and forced into adoption? Or would you like to hear more? And those are just Canadian stats, but I have American stats too.

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mojojuju

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

How can you tell me I can't? I am a part of that culture and know it is fact.

Well I guess that means you're qualified to pull facts out of your proverbial ass all you want.

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

Would you like to come walk in my world for a week?

I really can't because it would conflict with my schedule, but thank you for the invitation.

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

MORE rip off's of Native American Indians have occurred since the 50's and it's still happening and if it wasn't we wouldn't be having this discussion.

"MORE" rip offs than what?

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

Should I pull out some movie names from back then up until now?

I don't know how I'd know if you should. I'll leave it up to you to decide.

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

Should I make a list of all the fake natives and fake shaman's that are out there? Because I can do it without a hitch.

I think you should a) make a web site on that topic, b) slap some adsense on it, c) PROFIT!!$!!

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Laurie Rogers

13 years ago

Umm first of all that's not "pulling stats out of my proverbial ass" as you so put it. Why don't you take your ignorant ass and do some research. Do you know anything about the "residential schools or boarding schools?" Apparently not, otherwise you wouldn't be making such idiotic statements. Do you know that the prime minister's of Canada, Australia and The POPE made GLOBAL apologies for what they did? Again apparently not.

PM cites 'sad chapter' in apology for residential schools - Canada - CBC News
A Lost Heritage: Canada's Residential Schools | CBC Archives
Pope expresses 'sorrow' for abuse at residential schools - World - CBC News

Mass Graves Revealed of Indian Children in Canadian Schools | the narcosphere

Originally Posted by mojojuju

Well I guess that means you're qualified to pull facts out of your proverbial ass all you want.

I really can't because it would conflict with my schedule, but thank you for the invitation.

"MORE" rip offs than what?

I don't know how I'd know if you should. I'll leave it up to you to decide.

I think you should a) make a web site on that topic, b) slap some adsense on it, c) PROFIT!!$!!

Oh yeah you're such a class act of a business person, reap profits off the deaths of innocent children .. get a grip!

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mojojuju 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

Oh yeah you're such a class act of a business person, reap profits off the deaths of innocent children .. get a grip!

Yep, that's exactly what I said...

Originally Posted by mojojuju

"You should reap profits off the deaths of innocent children. It will be AWESOME and you will make bank!!!"
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- Laurie Rogers 13 years ago
  
  You said it when you opened your big mouth about a subject you knew NOTHING about... maybe you might want to keep that foot in there, because when it's out of your mouth, it clearly does you no good.
  
  Originally Posted by mojojuju
  
  Yep, that's exactly what I said...
  
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HeySal

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

I am going to post some more commentary after supper here, but The Secret is no new thing, this is all a hyped up version of what Napoleon Hill taught us all way back when. All they did, was add a few new things to it and twist and turn it into what they needed to sell along with it. And now it has come to the cost of my people, their culture, way of life and SACRED traditions. I respect all people of all cultures and their beliefs and would stand proud beside anyone whom has had this happen to them.

A little fact, our native culture is the most exploited culture in the world, we've got more imitators than any other culture.

Hill was just a modern version of a very ancient philosophy. This isn't new wave thinking - it's ancient wisdom.

Mojojuju -- what the hell is the matter with you? This is obviously a subject that is very raw for this woman and you come in here with nothing but pure nastiness? They don't teach you ANY empathy in high school any more? Get human.

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Laurie Rogers

13 years ago

It's pretty simple actually, if in our culture you do something of this nature for personal gain or for profit, it's bad medicine. Now say he did things the right way and asked people to make a donation to contribute to a Native fund of some sorts, the outcome may have been different. What you take is, what you give back in our culture. You never take more than what is needed - hence the reason you don't see a lot of greedy Native American Indians running around.

Originally Posted by gr8tocre8

All of a sudden, the movie "The Secret" lost a lot of credibility.

Don't get me wrong, I get it - the guy obviously has a lot of demons/issues - otherwise something like this wouldn't happen. But Law Of Attraction Newbies watching the Secret for the first time will probably take it as a sign that "the law of attraction doesn't work".

It will be very interesting to see how much time he gets. This is a major scandal in the LOA/Self help community.

Thanks
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Cee

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

It's pretty simple actually, if in our culture you do something of this nature for personal gain or for profit, it's bad medicine. Now say he did things the right way and asked people to make a donation to contribute to a Native fund of some sorts, the outcome may have been different.

Yes but the man is not Native American. He made millions in the self help field because it was his profession and for a long time he was good at making money. He seems to have started to believe in his own hype a little too much and got careless with people's lives. Quite sad. Maybe the whole Secret thing went to his head and he couldn't handle the fame.

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Laurie Rogers

13 years ago

Exactly he's not native american and therefore had no business doing it in the first place. Sweats are sacred ceremonies, they are ONLY to be done by Elders with YEARS of experience from traditional teachings. IE, you will never find a weekend on course on how to run a native american sweat. Nor will you find video's on youtube of the inner workings of a sweat, filming is prohibited and by chance if you do find one, it's not traditional.

Originally Posted by Cee

Yes but the man is not Native American. He made millions in the self help field because it was his profession and for a long time he was good at making money. He seems to have started to believe in his own hype a little too much and got careless with people's lives. Quite sad. Maybe the whole Secret thing went to his head and he couldn't handle the fame.

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

Exactly he's not native american and therefore had no business doing it in the first place. Sweats are sacred ceremonies, they are ONLY to be done by Elders with YEARS of experience from traditional teachings. .

Thats like saying black people are the only ones who should be able to listen to rap music... Im sorry I just hate it when people lean on the culture card as an identity. Be an individual.

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Laurie Rogers

13 years ago

Whoa, you're trying to compare a SACRED teaching to rap music? Get real with that argument. It's not a culture card, it's a SACRED teaching and if you don't know the difference, I truly feel sorry for you. I'm not asking you to listen to my music, I'm asking you and discussing with you NOT to take my sacred teachings and sell them for profit.

More and more people on the list NOT to do business with, if you can't respect one's culture, then I can't respect you as a person. And it's utterly disgusting that some of you would sit here and argue that it's okay to put people's lives in danger and in fact accept so casually that people DIED and were SERIOUSLY injured so some arrogant asshole could make some money .. GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE!

Originally Posted by John Durham

Thats like saying black people are the only ones who should be able to listen to rap music... Im sorry I just hate it when people lean on the culture card as an identity. Be an individual.

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mojojuju 13 years ago

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ladywriter

13 years ago

I remember seeing him on the Secret and on various tv shows, seemed like a nice guy. Kind of amped and chomping at the bit, but a nice guy. I bought his book even.

I continue to be shocked at this whole thing. Very sad for those families, and very upsetting that someone could be so high off their own vapors that they don't take simple precautions to protect others.

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John Durham

13 years ago

Originally Posted by kstark

I remember seeing him on the Secret and on various tv shows, seemed like a nice guy. Kind of amped and chomping at the bit, but a nice guy. I bought his book even.

I continue to be shocked at this whole thing. Very sad for those families, and very upsetting that someone could be so high off their own vapors that they don't take simple precautions to protect others.

Wasnt he the guy that was kinda sweaty in the secret film...forehead all shiny and beaded... I thought that when I saw the movie, after having studied abraham for almost ten years I wasnt real impressed, but its funny how that stood out to me now.

To me, its a great film but its an abraham hicks rip off, and it only explains enough to make people believe dumb things... They think the icing is the cake after watching that... JMO

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theory expert

Banned 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Laurie Rogers

if you charge money for healing or medicinal help, it's called Bad Medicine

I disagree with this part.
Doctors charge money for medicinal help and healing. If I break my leg and go to the emergency room...I will get a bill. 6weeks later I will be healed though, (It's a miracle)!!!

I'd like to also point out the man was running a bootcamp. Granted he killed some folks, and, I am sure that was unintentional. He used his marketing prowess to create a program to make money(marketing 101). He just, so, happened to have lost in his funnel approach. This could happen to anyone, say, Bikram Choudhury, if someone went to his classes and died then what would happen?

Another slippery slope in the world of marketing.

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Laurie Rogers

13 years ago

You can disagree with it, but in our culture it's forbidden, you don't pay for help and you don't pay medicine men, it's bad medicine period. If you're going to try and educate people about my culture, when you have no business doing it in the first place follow the rules and RESPECT it.

Originally Posted by Team X

I disagree with this part.
Doctors charge money for medicinal help and healing. If I break my leg and go to the emergency room...I will get a bill. 6weeks later I will be healed though, (It's a miracle)!!!

I'd like to also point out the man was running a bootcamp. Granted he killed some folks, and, I am sure that was unintentional. He used his marketing prowess to create a program to make money(marketing 101). He just, so, happened to have lost in his funnel approach. This could happen to anyone, say, Bikram Choudhury, if someone went to his classes and died then what would happen?

Another slippery slope in the world of marketing.

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MisterE

13 years ago

Two words........BLEEP, BLOOP..... Sorry Warriors, couldn't resist.

Google is your friend.

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jimbo13

13 years ago

Hello Laurie

If I understand you, you are a Native American?

And the ceremony is typically that of Native Americans and in your culture you would not charge to heal the sick. (Quite right too, although impractical nowadays in Western Culture)

This guy is not Native American but he is abusing one of your customs for his own purpose (cash) and therefore he got what he deserved.

You call it Bad Medicine, Hindus would call it Bad Karma.

Is that the crux of your thread?

Because I agree with you if it is.

Dan

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Laurie Rogers

13 years ago

Yes I am half Native American, that is one of our SACRED ceremonies and no we do not charge to heal the sick. You can donate to whatever our Elders so wish you to, but they never ask for money and if they do, they are not following traditional teachings. So if a donation is made, it's usually because someone offered to do so, not because they were asked to do so.

Yes he took one of our sacred ceremonies for profit and he was inflicted with bad medicine. Bad medicine can be inflicted upon you for doing what he did, or medicine men/women can inflict it on you, if they practice it and they feel as if you deserve it. They do this by taking something that belongs to you and doing whatever ceremony they feel is necessary in order for it to work. And it will not leave you, until you have it removed by someone whom is willing to do it, you can also pass this on through what we call transference, so it not only affects you, but others around you. Taking another person's life, is a HUGE deal in our culture and doing it for profit is an even bigger deal and that's how our communities see it, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentionally done to him.

I can tell you, that the Native communities are outraged by this (I've posted this link on my FB page for them to follow) and if he was indeed inflicted purposely with bad medicine, no-one will remove it from him.

So yes, that is the meaning of my thread.

Originally Posted by jimbo13

Hello Laurie

If I understand you, you are a Native American?

And the ceremony is typically that of Native Americans and in your culture you would not charge to heal the sick. (Quite right too, although impractical nowadays in Western Culture)

This guy is not Native American but he is abusing one of your customs for his own purpose (cash) and therefore he got what he deserved.

You call it Bad Medicine, Hindus would call it Bad Karma.

Is that the crux of your thread?

Because I agree with you if it is.

Dan

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MIRENGE

13 years ago

It very sad how sometimes people are judged unjustly for the crimes that they never committed.

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Laurie Rogers 13 years ago

Care to explain your comment further?

Originally Posted by MIRENGE

It very sad how sometimes people are judged unjustly for the crimes that they never committed.
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Michael Oksa

13 years ago

I'm glad the charlatan was found guilty. Typical New Age BS being passed off as "traditional ways." Bet he will be sweating every time he drops the soap in the shower.

That being said...

The funniest 4 words in this thread?

.

.

.

.

"All of a sudden"

SPLORF!

All the best,
Michael

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thunderbird

13 years ago

This is interesting:
from James Arthur Ray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Lakota also claim that James Arthur Ray and the Angel Valley Retreat Center fraudulently impersonated Indians and must be held responsible for causing the deaths and injuries, and for evidence destruction through dismantling of the sweat lodge. The lawsuit seeks to have the treaty enforced and does not seek monetary compensation

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thunderbird

13 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

This is interesting:
from James Arthur Ray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Lakota also claim that James Arthur Ray and the Angel Valley Retreat Center fraudulently impersonated Indians and must be held responsible for causing the deaths and injuries, and for evidence destruction through dismantling of the sweat lodge. The lawsuit seeks to have the treaty enforced and does not seek monetary compensation

When I think about it, is this that much different from applying blackface and putting on a minstrel show?

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seasoned

13 years ago

By doing this, the man cheapened the very idea of American Indians, and violated their traditions, and so DID violate a treaty, and thus broke US federal law, not to mention the FRAUD, SCAM, and DEATHS! And I take umbrage at this being called "negligent" homicide! He SHOULD have known! If you stab a knife in someone, on purpose, and they die, is THAT called negligent homicide? This is the SAME thing!

Steve

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HeySal

13 years ago

Laurie - not a wonder why your people declared sovereignty is it? In the US money has become the god of many - and they will destroy their own to have it. It's sad - and sometimes criminal. It's going to cause much more damage than this real soon. I hope your people keep their culture, language and ways because it might be what saves them in the end when all of the rest of this burns. A society can't feed on itself and survive and we see this going on all around us now - even right in here daily.

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bravo75

13 years ago

Wasn't Tony Robbins, was it? Dude gives me the heebie jeebies. I am always suspicious of overly positive individuals.

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Laurie Rogers 13 years ago

No Tony Robbins had nothing to do with the secret at all. Was Ray, Joe Vitale, Bob Procter John Assaraf and a few others. However, none of them have talked about it or pitched it since this happened, although a few of them have pitched similar products, based on the secret.

Originally Posted by bravo75

Wasn't Tony Robbins, was it? Dude gives me the heebie jeebies. I am always suspicious of overly positive individuals.
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dagaul101

13 years ago

As they say power is corruption, having power over the will of many, can make some people feel like God

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