Should I clean up after myself at a fast food restaurant???

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I just went to BK with the kid and after we were done I simply got up, refilled my soda and then walked to my car.

My daughter wanted to clean up the table but I pointed out the 2 or 3 people walking around with BK uniforms on and said that I didn't want to take away their jobs.

She was not happy and I didn't care.

Over a decade ago a worker from McDonalds had the gumption to follow a friend and I out to the car to demand that we return to clean up our mess.

We laughed so hard I almost hurled.

IMHO most folks have been conditioned by fast food joints to cleanup after themselves.

Another one of my rationals for not doing it is...

... if I go to an expensive place, I won't be cleaning up after myself, so why should I do it at a fast food joint.

Am I setting a bad example for my kid???

Or am I helping maintain jobs?

All The Best!!

TL
  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
    I pick up after myself at fast food joints. I don't wipe the table but I do put mt trash in the trash can and put the try on top. That;s what they are there for. Notice you don't see trash cans in fancy restaurants?
    But then I pick up after myself at home even though my mother, wife, or girl friend are there to do it.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

      I pick up after myself at fast food joints. I don't wipe the table but I do put mt trash in the trash can and put the try on top. That;s what they are there for. Notice you don't see trash cans in fancy restaurants?
      But then I pick up after myself at home even though my mother, wife, or girl friend are there to do it.

      Explain to me why they have at least one bus person hanging around to clean up tables??


      Help me understand why I should do their job for them???

      Folks cleaning up after themselves probably prevents them from hiring at least one more person in how many fast food joints worldwide???


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Explain to me why they have at least one bus person hanging around to clean up tables??


        Help me understand why I should do their job for them???

        Folks cleaning up after themselves probably prevents them from hiring at least one more person in how many fast food joints worldwide???


        TL
        They are there to wipe the tables down, not pick up after people.
        Thinking that picking up after yourself prevents them from hiring is just a way for you to justify your actions.
        I've always taught my daughters to pick up after themselves when they are in public or at home. They naturally know that when they are in a real restaurant or other business where part of the service is to clear the mess not to do it. But they also know it doesn't give them license to make a bigger mess then necessary.
        Personally I think people who leave their messes for others to take care of are ignorant.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          They are there to wipe the tables down, not pick up after people.

          Thinking that picking up after yourself prevents them from hiring is just a way for you to justify your actions.

          I've always taught my daughters to pick up after themselves when they are in public or at home. They naturally know that when they are in a real restaurant or other business where part of the service is to clear the mess not to do it. But they also know it doesn't give them license to make a bigger mess then necessary.

          Personally I think people who leave their messes for others to take care of are ignorant.
          LOL!!!

          I informed my daughter that she is was most welcome to clean that table if she likes, and I'd also be waiting for her in the car.

          And I also told her that when she's with her mother or friends etc., she's welcome to perform that task at FF joints.

          I remember how it started... ( begin dream like special effects & music )

          About 15-20 years ago a friend and I were finishing up at a FF joint and I was about to start the cleanup process.

          My friend pointed out a bus boy nearby - just hanging around, doing nothing.

          As we got up to leave I caught the young man's eyes and then pointed at our table.

          Without a peep or cross look he did his job and prepared the table for the next guest.


          ( end dream like special effects & music )


          I'm also willing to bet that there are secret McDonald's internal memos, emails and/or corporate bulletins that speak to the conditioning of the population on this matter and how it's saving them money.

          How's that for a Konspiracy?


          What if everyone stopped doing what you're doing at FF joints?

          Would any FF joints close down or would someone be waiting to get that table ready for the next customer?

          Would FF joints have to raise their prices?

          I think not.

          Ignorance - that's a strong word.

          It's simply a matter of a harmless personal choice IMHO.

          I may have been a little overzealous with the taking of jobs meme and they may not have to hire another person in each FF joint but if those on duty can swipe a table they can also dump the trays.

          I don't see a problem with that.

          All The Best!!

          TL
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          • Profile picture of the author SEO Professor
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            My friend pointed out a bus boy nearby - just hanging around, doing nothing.

            As we got up to leave I caught the young man's eyes and then pointed at our table.
            TL
            I dont know.. this sounds very arrogant of you. If you dont want to clean up after yourself its one thing, but to boss around the bus boy like you own the place is another thing entirely. I also think it's nice to throw your food away if you have the few seconds to spare. Even though they hire bus boys to clean and everything, it's nice to help out if you can, dont you think?
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              TL - that's the way the programming works. Little things. Take away a service from the people and make them believe others are terrible if they protest that the particular service is not offered.
              Sal in this case that is total garbage.
              I like to be courteous to people when I'm entering or leaving a building at the same time as someone else. That means I'll hold the door open for them if I get to it first.
              I was taught to do it because I was taught manners. Now I guess you could argue that learning manners is being programed. What TL is talking about isn't any different.
              To try to say it's slip stream programing is just another excuse to be rude.

              TL and Kurt and a couple others gave excellent reasons to leave a tray on a table at a FF joint. Your reason isn't one of them.
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        • Profile picture of the author nickbensond
          You're probably the person who pisses all over the toilet seat and or takes a dump without flushing just so an employee would have a job. Now there's an example to set for your daughter.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by nickbensond View Post

            You're probably the person who pisses all over the toilet seat and or takes a dump without flushing just so an employee would have a job. Now there's an example to set for your daughter.
            Not true!

            I never said I make a big mess on the table.

            I just don't dump my tray.


            TL
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          • Profile picture of the author jeffrey73
            Hey man,

            Laker fans may be rude but they are NOT disrespectful. Now the players on the other hand...

            BTW I laughed hysterically after reading this post. Sorry TL..

            Originally Posted by nickbensond View Post

            You're probably the person who pisses all over the toilet seat and or takes a dump without flushing just so an employee would have a job. Now there's an example to set for your daughter.
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            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by jeffrey73 View Post

              Hey man,

              Laker fans may be rude but they are NOT disrespectful. Now the players on the other hand...

              BTW I laughed hysterically after reading this post. Sorry TL..
              Glad to be of service.

              All The Best!!


              TL
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      • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Explain to me why they have at least one bus person hanging around to clean up tables??


        Help me understand why I should do their job for them???

        Folks cleaning up after themselves probably prevents them from hiring at least one more person in how many fast food joints worldwide???


        TL
        Because some people don't pick up their trash.

        It's not mandatory to pick up your trash, but you either do it because you want to or you don't. I always keep everything on my tray and when I'm finished, I put my trash in the garbage and leave the tray in the slot that is for trays on top.

        I find it hard to believe that having trash on the table or not is going to be the difference between an extra job or not. Management is going to go by the sales numbers they have and not just hire extra employees to pick up the trash. The one that they do have would suffice to pick up the trash, wipe the table, and sweep the floor. Leaving trash on the table or not isn't going to make a difference, just create more work for the employee doing it. I was taught to pick up after myself and so that's what I do. I don't wipe off the table, but I take my own trash to the garbage. If you feel you shouldn't then don't. I just know that creating more work for the employee that makes minimum wage because it's "good for them" as some people say, just sounds ridiculous. If they made $12/$13 an hour, I could see, but minimum wage sucks. I'm not trying to make them work for every dime they make.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Am I setting a bad example for my kid???
      Yes, I think you are. Expensive restaurants have different expectations and they have bussers to clear tables. Employees in fast food restaurants are usually refilling things and wiping off tables. Did you leave a 20% tip? If not, why not?

      Everything you do is a lesson for your son. Do you want your son to learn to be responsible for his own messes and thoughtful of others - or teach him that others are responsible for cleaning up after him? That's a no-brainer to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Yes, I think you are. Expensive restaurants have different expectations and they have bussers to clear tables. Employees in fast food restaurants are usually refilling things and wiping off tables. Did you leave a 20% tip? If not, why not?

        Everything you do is a lesson for your son. Do you want your son to learn to be responsible for his own messes and thoughtful of others - or teach him that others are responsible for cleaning up after him? That's a no-brainer to me.
        He's a girl!!


        I asked the question - thanks for the answer.

        Thoughtful of others is one thing but doing someone's job for them is another.

        - We just donated a school desk for kids in Malawi Africa @ $48.

        1-800-for-kids

        - When we're in the car and stopped at an intersection and there's someone panhandling - we give regularly.

        - Her school does charity stuff all the time.


        McDonalds has over 31k restaurants.

        Combined in America, I estimate your policy and those that believe like you are costing the U.S. at least 75K badly needed jobs.

        All The Best!!

        TL
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          He's a girl!!


          - We just donated a school desk for kids in Malawi Africa @ $48.

          TL
          Is this KIND? (Kids In Need of Desks)

          It looks like a great project.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Is this KIND? (Kids In Need of Desks)

            It looks like a great project.
            I think so Kurt.

            It's a UNICEF program.

            We heard about it the other day on the Larry O'Donnell show.


            TL
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        • Profile picture of the author povchef
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          He's a girl!!

          McDonalds has over 31k restaurants.

          Combined in America, I estimate your policy and those that believe like you are costing the U.S. at least 75K badly needed jobs.

          All The Best!!

          TL
          I Guarantee that by cleaning up after yourself you ain't costing anyone there job all your doing is casting some Fat Cat director his third bonus of the year...

          But I do sort of agree with you on one level as consumers we are programmed by companies to take some of the work load of the paid employees.

          Yet if such programming is creating a sense in kids that they should clean up after themselves and be helpful this can not be seen as a bad thing. Heck I know a few kids in my area that could do with some manners 'programmed' into them.
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  • My dad taught us to clean our tables after eating. Especially if where eating out. In that way, somehow your helping someone on their jobs. Making their life easier. I adore my dad so much. He is so kind-hearted person to anyone.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I'm torn on this issue...

    It hasn't always been expected that you clean up after yourself in a fastfood restaurant. This was something that started happening about 30-40(?) years ago. Before that, FF restaurants had a dedicated person that did clean up, and there weren't any trash bins in the dining room for you to do it yourself.

    Over the years, the FF restaurants have done a great job conditioning us to clean up after ourselves, saving them the money they'd spend on giving someone a job to do it.

    I do clean up after myself, but I'm mumbling under my breath when I do it. What ever happened to a little service?
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas
    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

    Should I clean up after myself at a fast food restaurant???
    I never have, but then, I can't recall ever seeing bins in a fast food restaurant for that purpose. I might be just blind though. The closest I've seen is something that looks like a small wheelie-bin with a sliding panel; a staff member wheels it over to the table, opens the panel, scoops everything straight off the table into it, wipes down the table, and off they go.

    Having been a restauranter in the past (albeit an actual restaurant, not a fast food place), I would never expect customers to clean up after themselves, even if my food was extrememly cheap. That doesn't mean I would expect them to wreck the place or throw stuff around either; however, I believe not having to clean up after yourself is, in addition to not having to make the food in the first place, part of the SERVICE you pay for in a restaurant. Otherwise, why would you even bother going to one in the first place?

    (The ACTUAL cost of the food you eat in a restaurant - including fast food places - is only a fraction of what you pay for it; most of what you pay on your bill is for wages, utilities, interest payments, etc. If restauranters can't sell all those extra costs in the form of additional service, then people will just eat at home; after all, if you still have to clean up after yourself (for example), why not do so at home, where it'll cost you much less, and you won't have to get yourself dressed up, drive to another location, look for parking, maybe have to wait for a table, and endure the 101 other potential hassles involved in going out to eat?)
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      I never have, but then, I can't recall ever seeing bins in a fast food restaurant for that purpose.
      Tommy over here they all have trash receptacles and a place usually above it to place your trays.
      Many also have signs up asking the customer to place their trash in the receptacle and to put their trays on the shelve.
      You really can't miss seeing them.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      "It's a girl" - my bad.

      You didn't answer my question, though.

      Did you leave a 20% tip? If not, why not?
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        "It's a girl" - my bad.

        You didn't answer my question, though.
        Why would I do that?????????????????

        Because the bus person dumped my tray??

        All The Best!!

        TL
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      • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        "It's a girl" - my bad.

        You didn't answer my question, though.
        The employer should be made to pay a true minimum wage. Tipping is another form of begging.

        Japan,China, South Korea do not expect tipping and the service is not disadvantaged.

        Tipping is a bad example for children. It demonstrates you can get money for doing very littlein addition to your wages.
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        • Profile picture of the author Goldenboy
          The idea here is not for you to clean the table or mop the floor after eating at a fast food chain, but it is also our obligation to dispose some of our garbage to its proper disposal. I don't like the idea of justifying an action for not helping or just disposing some thrash simply because it is the job of another person? Come on, they have their job and is it that a burden to yourself to help in your own little way? Remember, you are not the only customer that they will be cleaning some tables and your thrash. It's also our responsibility as customers not to leave too much mess just because there are people who are paid to clean them for you?

          Can you take the same scene if your daughter works at the same fast food and customers would just leave their mess for your daughter to clean that up as she was paid to do that? Would it take away our prestige or fame if we throw our thrash to its proper disposal and help this people a bit of their work?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by oncewerewarriors View Post

          The employer should be made to pay a true minimum wage. Tipping is another form of begging.

          Japan,China, South Korea do not expect tipping and the service is not disadvantaged.

          Tipping is a bad example for children. It demonstrates you can get money for doing very littlein addition to your wages.
          Tipping is SUPPOSED to be a good way of saying THANKS for the service. As for begging, THEY aren't begging. The employers ARE cheapskates though, and often pay LESS than minimum wage!

          Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

      I never have, but then, I can't recall ever seeing bins in a fast food restaurant for that purpose. I might be just blind though. The closest I've seen a something that looks like a small wheelie-bin with a sliding panel; a staff member wheels it over to the table, opens the panel, scoops everything straight off the table into it, wipes down the table, and off they go.

      Having been a restauranter in the past (albeit an actual restaurant, not a fast food place), I would never expect customers to clean up after themselves, even if my food was extrememly cheap. That doesn't mean I would expect them to wreck the place or throw stuff around either; however, I believe not having to clean up after yourself is, in addition to not having to make the food in the first place, part of the SERVICE you pay for in a restaurant. Otherwise, why would you even bother going to one in the first place?

      (The ACTUAL cost of the food you eat in a restaurant - including fast food places - is only a fraction of what you pay for it; most of what you pay on your bill is for wages, utilities, interest payments, etc. If restauranters can't sell all those extra costs in the form of additional service, then people will just eat at home; after all, if you still have to clean up after yourself (for example), why not do so at home, where it'll cost you much less, and you won't have to get yourself dressed up, drive to another location, look for parking, maybe have to wait for a table, and endure the 101 other potential hassles involved in going out to eat?)
      I never said anything about trashing any place.

      As a matter of fact I always get a separate tray for everyone at the table.

      As a former restaurateur...

      ... will a bus person having to dump a tray full of food in addition to swiping down a table incur extra costs or just another 30 seconds of cleanup time?


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        I never said anything about trashing any place.
        I didn't say you did. What I said didn't relate to you in any way.

        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        As a former restaurateur...

        ... will a bus person having to dump a tray full of food in addition to swiping down a table incur extra costs or just another 30 seconds of cleanup time?
        Bussers don't really exist here in a seperate role. The waiting staff generally clear/clean tables in between taking orders and serving food. It's all part of the same job.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    I was conditioned by my mother to clean up after myself.

    I'm just saying...

    Joe Mobley


    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post


    IMHO most folks have been conditioned by fast food joints to cleanup after themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Thom is right.They are there to clean the tables,not pick up after the customers.
    When you eat at a fast food place you are giving up some of the anemities in exchange for a lower cost meal.
    No one expects full service at a fast food place.
    And I agree with those that say yes to the setting a bad example for your child.
    I think when you leave you should leave the table as clean as it was when you sat down,or at least as close as possible. That's when the "bus boy" should swoop down after you leave and spary and clean the table.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Thom is right.They are there to clean the tables,not pick up after the customers.
      When you eat at a fast food place you are giving up some of the anemities in exchange for a lower cost meal.
      No one expects full service at a fast food place.
      And I agree with those that say yes to the setting a bad example for your child.
      I think when you leave you should leave the table as clean as it was when you sat down,or at least as close as possible. That's when the "bus boy" should swoop down after you leave and spary and clean the table.

      The full service you speak of is another 30 to 60 seconds to dump a max of 4 treys.

      If they can wipe, they can dump.

      I have to commend the FF industry for the job they have done.


      Thanks for your opinion.

      All The Best!!


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        The full service you speak of is another 30 to 60 seconds to dump a max of 4 treys.

        If they can wipe, they can dump.

        I have to commend the FF industry for the job they have done.


        Thanks for your opinion.

        All The Best!!


        TL
        30-50 PER. IF they are relatively orderly.

        I at least make sure most stuff is on my tray, wipe it into the trash, and put the tray on top.

        BTW in a perfect world with all at the same pay.... workers=work/amount each worker can do. SO, YEP, you increase WORKERS! THANKYOU! ******BUT******! PAY=profit/workers, so you DECREASE PAY! BTW PROFIT=price-expenses. Since YOU want expenses to go UP, PRICES have to go up!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "I have to commend the FF industry for the job they have done."

    I can't commend them. Most of the employees don't care what kind of service you get.
    But that's another thread!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    In Las Vegas, there's a certain etiquette for tipping at buffets. It's basically if a wait person gets your drinks, then you tip a $1 or $2 per person. If you get your own drinks, you're not expected to tip.

    But in either case, you don't bus your own table afterwards, even at the cheapest buffets.

    However, also in Las Vegas it seems a lot of the fast food places (other than the major chains) have tip jars, including Subway. I always tipped a little bit, and still had to bus my own table.

    People can say all they want about picking up after yourself at a FF restaurant, but again, this isn't something we used to have to do and is just another example of how our expectations for service have lowered over the years.

    And again, yes I do pick up after myself. I just wish it was an included service like it used to be. I'll gladly pay the extra dime.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I confess that I used to leave my tray on the table at fast food places. My reasoning is that I was going there so I didn't have to cook OR clean up after myself. I would at least put everything on the tray, but that was it.

    Then, over the years I changed and now I almost always take the tray off the table (or someone at the table does). The only exception is if the service is really bad. Here's how I justify it: You can't tip at a fast food place for good service, so leaving the tray on the table is kind of like a reverse tip.

    However, even that doesn't happen all that often as we usually hit the drive-thru when we go anyway.

    I understand the reasoning behind either way of doing it, but I would not leave my tray on the table as a matter of course.

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      I confess that I used to leave my tray on the table at fast food places. My reasoning is that I was going there so I didn't have to cook OR clean up after myself. I would at least put everything on the tray, but that was it.

      Then, over the years I changed and now I almost always take the tray off the table (or someone at the table does). The only exception is if the service is really bad. Here's how I justify it: You can't tip at a fast food place for good service, so leaving the tray on the table is kind of like a reverse tip.

      However, even that doesn't happen all that often as we usually hit the drive-thru when we go anyway.

      I understand the reasoning behind either way of doing it, but I would not leave my tray on the table as a matter of course.

      All the best,
      Michael
      Hey Michael...

      This was a point I was trying to make...Eating at a FF place isn't about quality of food, it's about convenience. I go to FF because I don't want to cook or have to clean up after myself. If I wanted to do that, I'd stay home and cook, which is what I do almost all the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    I guess my question is if eating at McDonald's in the first place is setting a bad example for a kid, if you don't own McDonald's stocks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      I guess my question is if eating at McDonald's in the first place is setting a bad example for a kid, if you don't own McDonald's stocks.
      Yes, as long as it's done only once in a while. It teaches the example of not falling for all of the anti-business, health nut claims that are out there. And that the occasional cheeseburger won't kill you and that it can be enjoyed. Sounds like a good example to me.

      ~M~
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Yes, as long as it's done only once in a while. It teaches the example of not falling for all of the anti-business, health nut claims that are out there. And that the occasional cheeseburger won't kill you and that it can be enjoyed. Sounds like a good example to me.

        ~M~
        Who said anything about health? That's another thread. Anyway, truth be said, I prefer Boston Pizza food.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

          Who said anything about health? That's another thread. Anyway, truth be said, I prefer Boston Pizza food.
          LOL

          My point was more of a general one, in that it IS okay to enjoy the occasional burger at McDonald's, and that doing so would set a good example.

          All the best,
          Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author TiffanyB
          The way that I look at it if I am the person bringing the food to the table, which at the ff places I have been to there are no waitresses bringing you your food, then I am the person that also removes the food from the table.

          In the places around here I have never seen just one person sitting around waiting to bus tables or wipe them down. Usually it is a person who is also a cashier or the same person who cleans the bathrooms and the back area that cleans the dining room area as well. I don't see BK hiring another person just to do this job so you aren't making more jobs if you leave your table with all your mess on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Kurt, I disagree, it used to be about quality AND convenience.
    Now it seems its just about convenience.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Why would I do that?????????????????

      Because the bus person dumped my tray??
      Because you said -

      ... if I go to an expensive place, I won't be cleaning up after myself, so why should I do it at a fast food joint.
      ...why wouldn't you leave a tip just like you would in an expensive joint?

      Your question was whether you were setting a bad example for your kid.
      To me, it's nothing to do with who "should" clean off a table - but a chance to encourage a child to think of others and help out where they can.

      That's just me...
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  • Profile picture of the author Andie
    TL!
    I usually agree w/you but not on this one. It is a matter of not only setting a good example for your child, but doing what is 'responsible' regarding your own actions. In scouts they call it 'Leave No Trace' and in metro areas, littering is a crime.
    Yes, you "Should" pick up after yourself simply as a matter of principle and self-respect, in my humble opinion. The 'floor' employees will still have a job as they wipe tables and keep floor clean, trash emptied and trays wiped.

    Also, as another mentioned, I'm not sure choosing McD's is the best option in the first place, but leaving behind your meal leftovers and mess is simply not the polite thing to do.

    best,
    Andie
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
    The reason that the quality suffers is because of a couple of reasons. One is that to maximize profits, regardless of whether quality suffers like most companies do, is to buy cheaper product that isn't as good and also to give less for the same price or more. You used to get a lot for a little and now you get a little for a lot. The government didn't help by wanting portion sizes lessened, but they took it to an extreme and now they chinch you every chance they get. It's ridiculous.

    As for taking your trash to the trash. How hard is it keep everything on your tray, then when you get up pick up the tray and dispose of it and put the tray on top. It's right by the door in every place I've seen. It doesn't put anyone, and I mean anyone out to put up one tray that you used. It's almost like it takes more mental effort to think about it, look at the person sweeping, and making a conscious effort to give them more work because of sheer laziness of not doing something you could do at home. I wouldn't even call it lack of convenience since you don't have to walk out of your way. Going to get a refill on your soda takes more effort since you have to walk away from the door. The convenience of fast food is all about you not having to make it yourself and that it is fast, hence fast food, not that you can leave all your trash on the table. I suppose it comes down to what you were taught and your sense of ethics.
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    • Profile picture of the author jeffrey73
      I think this sums things up perfectly. Stop being so lazy! LOL

      Originally Posted by Sunfyre7896 View Post

      As for taking your trash to the trash. How hard is it keep everything on your tray, then when you get up pick up the tray and dispose of it and put the tray on top. It's right by the door in every place I've seen. It doesn't put anyone, and I mean anyone out to put up one tray that you used. It's almost like it takes more mental effort to think about it, look at the person sweeping, and making a conscious effort to give them more work because of sheer laziness of not doing something you could do at home. I wouldn't even call it lack of convenience since you don't have to walk out of your way. Going to get a refill on your soda takes more effort since you have to walk away from the door. The convenience of fast food is all about you not having to make it yourself and that it is fast, hence fast food, not that you can leave all your trash on the table. I suppose it comes down to what you were taught and your sense of ethics.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
    TL

    Can't agree this time.

    Of course I clean up out of shear habit. And I would think it IS a good example to set.

    I've even gotten all the plates stacked and trash in the plates at high brow restaurants..(don't take them tho) just because I find em kind of slow sometimes.
    I don't like sitting there in front of a mess.

    I can kind of 'appreciate' your thinking for the making jobs, but the sad fact is, companies don't hire more people to handle that, they just make people work harder, and that is fact.


    PS I would have had just as big a laugh at a McD's employee running out and telling me I had to go back in and bus the table...had I ever forgotten to do it.
    That dude or dudette was out of line.


    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    "...and making a conscious effort to give them more work..."

    It was never about making more work for somebody else, it was about not having to worry about cooking or any of the other chores ssociated with it. There is a difference.

    Anyway, I don't do it anymore, unless the service is really poor. But the last time that happened would probably be 5 years ago, so even that isn't a frequent thing. Besides, it's not like I'm going into a fast food place expecting stellar service, so it has to be REALLY bad service before I will leave my tray on the table as a form of anti-tip.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Its hard to take your FF tray and tip its contents into the bin that is usually placed right near the exit when your on the way out?

    wow...

    Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Tipping is a bad example for children. It demonstrates you can get money for doing very littlein addition to your wages.
      I suppose it depends on where you live. In the U.S. there are minimum wages but they do not apply to waiters, waitresses, casino dealers, etc. The practice is to tip those people for the service you receive.

      Teaching a child not to tip when it is the norm puts the child at a disadvantage as later in life he'll be seen as having poor manners and not knowing proper social behavior. Elsewhere customs are different.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    I do it out of respect for the people who work there. They have it tough enough already.
    Anyone who works at a fast food restaurant is not exactly living the life, without having to clean up after a lazy customer who doesn't want to clean up after himself at a freaking fast food restaurant.

    No matter what kind of service you get, just show a little consideration for the crappy job they have without making it more crappy by leaving your stuff all over the table.
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Huddleston
    Remember it's fast food. You can at least dump your trash. They will not hire some one to do it. If you want full service pay for it.
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  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

    Am I setting a bad example for my kid???
    yes

    Or am I helping maintain jobs?
    the staff probably have a special name for people like this ? W***** ?
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      Yes, as long as it's done only once in a while. It teaches the example of not falling for all of the anti-business, health nut claims that are out there. And that the occasional cheeseburger won't kill you and that it can be enjoyed. Sounds like a good example to me.

      ~M~
      I kinda agree with that Mike, I think most of the health claims aren't nutty though. I try to eat healthy but I also enjoy an occasional Big Mac or Whopper. I tend to think if you're anal about eating healthy food, then if you eat something that isn't really good for you it can really mess you up. Where eating junk food every once in a while helps to avoid that. Sorta like when you get a flu shot where they inject a small amount of the flu virus in you so your body can build an immunity to it.
      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      LOL!!!

      I informed my daughter that she is was most welcome to clean that table if she likes, and I'd also be waiting for her in the car.

      And I also told her that when she's with her mother or friends etc., she's welcome to perform that task at FF joints.

      I remember how it started... ( begin dream like special effects & music )

      About 15-20 years ago a friend and I were finishing up at a FF joint and I was about to start the cleanup process.

      My friend pointed out a bus boy nearby - just hanging around, doing nothing.

      As we got up to leave I caught the young man's eyes and then pointed at our table.

      Without a peep or cross look he did his job and prepared the table for the next guest.


      ( end dream like special effects & music )


      I'm also willing to bet that there are secret McDonald's internal memos, emails and/or corporate bulletins that speak to the conditioning of the population on this matter and how it's saving them money.

      How's that for a Konspiracy?


      What if everyone stopped doing what you're doing at FF joints?

      Would any FF joints close down or would someone be waiting to get that table ready for the next customer?

      Would FF joints have to raise their prices?

      I think not.

      Ignorance - that's a strong word.

      It's simply a matter of a harmless personal choice IMHO.

      I may have been a little overzealous with the taking of jobs meme and they may not have to hire another person in each FF joint but if those on duty can swipe a table they can also dump the trays.

      I don't see a problem with that.

      All The Best!!

      TL
      I call em like I see em. IF you and I where eating together at a fast food joint and you left your mess, I'd ask you if you where ignorant or just a slob.
      Originally Posted by Andie View Post

      TL!
      I usually agree w/you but not on this one. It is a matter of not only setting a good example for your child, but doing what is 'responsible' regarding your own actions. In scouts they call it 'Leave No Trace' and in metro areas, littering is a crime.
      Yes, you "Should" pick up after yourself simply as a matter of principle and self-respect, in my humble opinion. The 'floor' employees will still have a job as they wipe tables and keep floor clean, trash emptied and trays wiped.

      Also, as another mentioned, I'm not sure choosing McD's is the best option in the first place, but leaving behind your meal leftovers and mess is simply not the polite thing to do.

      best,
      Andie
      I learned in scouts to leave a small foot print. That's something I still practice to this day. That means when I'm out I don't leave messes and I try to always be polite and courteous (unless you give me a reason not to be).
      It's also about having respect for other people and treating them the way I want to be treated.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        II call em like I see em. IF you and I where eating together at a fast food joint and you left your mess, I'd ask you if you where ignorant or just a slob.
        And I would tell you that TL is neither and that you two simply have a disagreement as to what is included in the service at a FF restaurant.

        If picking up after yourself isn't part of the service, then the restaurant should put up a sign BEFORE you buy that you are expected to bus your own table, not shame us into doing it AFTER they take our money. Like I said multiple times before in this thread, this used to be included in the service at FF restaurants, so it isn't as if TL's point of view wasn't valid in times past.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          And I would tell you that TL is neither and that you two simply have a disagreement as to what is included in the service at a FF restaurant.

          If picking up after yourself isn't part of the service, then the restaurant should put up a sign BEFORE you buy that you are expected to bus your own table, not shame us into doing it AFTER they take our money. Like I said multiple times before in this thread, this used to be included in the service at FF restaurants, so it isn't as if TL's point of view wasn't valid in times past.
          And like I said before most of the fast food restaurants that I have been in have signs in plan sight asking you to put your trash in the receptacle and place your tray on the shelve.
          You can't miss the signs as they are by the trash receptacles which are by the doors or between the area where you get your food and the area where you sit.
          I don't care what you would tell me, I'd say the same to anyone I was eating with. If you don't want to hear it then pick up after yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        I kinda agree with that Mike, I think most of the health claims aren't nutty though. I try to eat healthy but I also enjoy an occasional Big Mac or Whopper. I tend to think if you're anal about eating healthy food, then if you eat something that isn't really good for you it can really mess you up. Where eating junk food every once in a while helps to avoid that. Sorta like when you get a flu shot where they inject a small amount of the flu virus in you so your body can build an immunity to it.








        I call em like I see em.

        IF you and I where eating together at a fast food joint and you left your mess, I'd ask you if you where ignorant or just a slob.
        Thanks Ray!

        First of all maybe you make a big mess every time you eat in a FF joint.

        You're acting like I've leave food on the seats and all over the table ala Animal House.

        I don't.

        Everything is on the tray.

        So...

        If you and I were eating at a ff joint and you said what you've said above...

        I'd reply with something like ... ( I've been in this situation a few times before )


        "Neither, I came here to eat not to do another person's job.

        and...

        Help me understand why I should put my hands on that nasty-ass garbage can when there is someone right over there who's getting paid to do it for me?

        If you want to play garbage man - be my guest - take my tray up too."

        By then, you've got a real attitude. ( which I've seen before and it's a hoot )

        You think I have embarrassed you right??

        That is the primary reason for your attitude.

        Let me guess...

        You have even decided to stop being friends with me over this issue.

        We are no longer boys, partners, buds etc.

        Over this issue?????

        Glad you're not strapped since methinks you might even shoot me over this s***.


        I won't call you personally ignorant but I will call your position on calling me ignorant - most ignorant in and of itself.

        As Kurt said earlier, it's a simple difference of opinion.

        No amount of condemnation from this group or any other group of people will make me change my mind.

        But, if someone can prove to me that my actions are directly costing decent people jobs then I would change my position.

        I'm damn sure not bothering to dump my tray when there is no where near a full house in the restaurant and with someone standing there waiting for me to finish eating so they can get the table ready for the next customer.

        All The Best!!

        TL
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Thanks Ray!

          First of all maybe you make a big mess every time you eat in a FF joint.

          You're acting like I've leave food on the seats and all over the table ala Animal House.

          I don't.

          Everything is on the tray.

          So...

          If you and I were eating at a ff joint and you said what you've said above...

          I'd reply with something like ... ( I've been in this situation a few times before )


          "Neither, I came here to eat not to do another person's job.

          and...

          Help me understand why I should put my hands on that nasty-ass garbage can when there is someone right over there who's getting paid to do it for me?

          If you want to play garbage man - be my guest - take my tray up too."

          By then, you've got a real attitude. ( which I've seen before and it's a hoot )

          You think I have embarrassed you right??

          That is the primary reason for your attitude.

          Let me guess...

          You have even decided to stop being friends with me over this issue.

          We are no longer boys, partners, buds etc.

          Over this issue?????

          Glad you're not strapped since methinks you might even shoot me over this s***.


          I won't call you personally ignorant but I will call your position on calling me ignorant - most ignorant in and of itself.

          As Kurt said earlier, it's a simple difference of opinion.

          No amount of condemnation from this group or any other group of people will make me change my mind.

          But, if someone can prove to me that my actions are directly costing decent people jobs then I would change my position.

          I'm damn sure not bothering to dump my tray when there is no where near a full house in the restaurant and with someone standing there waiting for me to finish eating so they can get the table ready for the next customer.

          All The Best!!

          TL
          First off my name ain't Ray, but you already knew that.
          Second no I don't make a big mess in FF joints or anywhere else.
          No I wouldn't think you where embarrassing me, I'd think you where showing the world what an ignorant slob you where. Doesn't embarrass me in the least.
          Do I have an attitude? Yep sure do.
          Do I care if my attitude bothers you? Nope sure don't. If you where someone who's opinion mattered to me it might bother me a little.
          Do I care if you think my position is ignorant? Not in the least.
          Would I stop being friends with you? I would never be your friend in the first place so that's not an issue. As for my real friends, none of them would act like you in the first place.
          It's really is starting to sound like you have a big superiority complex going on. Good to know you're so much better then the rest of us.
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          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            First off my name ain't Ray, but you already knew that.
            Second no I don't make a big mess in FF joints or anywhere else.
            No I wouldn't think you where embarrassing me, I'd think you where showing the world what an ignorant slob you where. Doesn't embarrass me in the least.
            Do I have an attitude? Yep sure do.
            Do I care if my attitude bothers you? Nope sure don't. If you where someone who's opinion mattered to me it might bother me a little.
            Do I care if you think my position is ignorant? Not in the least.
            Would I stop being friends with you? I would never be your friend in the first place so that's not an issue. As for my real friends, none of them would act like you in the first place.


            It's really is starting to sound like you have a big superiority complex going on. Good to know you're so much better then the rest of us.

            Thom,

            You said you "call em like you see" them so I called you Ray.



            You're the one calling people "ignorant"


            ...over this issue,...


            ...so who's acting like they're superior to others?




            No one else has gone that far in their criticism of my position on this issue.


            Wrong instead of ignorant will do.


            I don't have to be right all the time - like some people I know.



            In this thread, I've walked back my inflammatory statements about people who believe like you, killing jobs and...


            ...I've also walked back and/or modified many positions I've made in this forum when it was prudent -

            --- but not you.

            No matter how unsupported ( notice I didn't say stupid or ignorant ) a position is, you normally stick to it as if you have to be right - all the time.


            I never said we could or would be friends in any life or situation.

            You offered a hypothetical situation of...

            ... if we went to a FF joint together etc. and what you would say when I wouldn't dump my tray.

            I gave my response.

            That "attitude" I of spoke of was in our hypothetical lunch at the FF joint.

            You can save that "superior to others crap" for someone else since you're the one calling people ignorant over trivial matters.

            All The Best!!

            TL
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

              Thom,

              You said you "call em like you see" them so I called you Ray.



              You're the one calling people "ignorant"


              ...over this issue,...


              ...so who's acting like they're superior to others?




              No one else has gone that far in their criticism of my position on this issue.


              Wrong instead of ignorant will do.


              I don't have to be right all the time - like some people I know.



              In this thread, I've walked back my inflammatory statements about people who believe like you, killing jobs and...


              ...I've also walked back and/or modified many positions I've made in this forum when it was prudent -

              --- but not you.

              No matter how unsupported ( notice I didn't say stupid or ignorant ) a position is, you normally stick to it as if you have to be right - all the time.


              I never said we could or would be friends in any life or situation.

              You offered a hypothetical situation of...

              ... if we went to a FF joint together etc. and what you would say when I wouldn't dump my tray.

              I gave my response.

              That "attitude" I of spoke of was in our hypothetical lunch at the FF joint.

              You can save that "superior to others crap" for someone else since you're the one calling people ignorant over trivial matters.

              All The Best!!

              TL
              I never said I was superior or did I try to imply that.
              Your comments and attitude suggested that you felt superior to the employees and other customers.
              If I think someone is being ignorant I tell them, when someone thinks I'm being ignorant I hope they will tell me.
              You think it's trivial. I think people acting like you did are part of the problem with society today. Leaving your crap on the table shows a lack of consideration for the employees, the establishment, and the other customers. I call that being ignorant.
              I called you ignorant yet I've seen you call many people other names here that offended them as much as what I said offended you. Think of some of the names you've called people you think are 'conspiracy theorist'.
              Sorry you can give and not take.
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              • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                I never said I was superior or did I try to imply that.
                Your comments and attitude suggested that you felt superior to the employees and other customers.
                If I think someone is being ignorant I tell them, when someone thinks I'm being ignorant I hope they will tell me.

                You think it's trivial. I think people acting like you did are part of the problem with society today. Leaving your crap on the table shows a lack of consideration for the employees, the establishment, and the other customers. I call that being ignorant.

                I called you ignorant yet I've seen you call many people other names here that offended them as much as what I said offended you. Think of some of the names you've called people you think are 'conspiracy theorist'.

                Sorry you can give and not take.
                Thom,

                All I said was I'm not doing what I believe is someone's job at a FF joint.

                I never even came close to hinting that I was better than anyone for my position on this subject.

                You came up with all that.

                I have suggested that folks like you have been conditioned by FF joints to feel the way you feel on this subject ...

                ...and I'm sticking to it.

                I walked back the stuff about y'all being job killers.

                I bet you can go through every post I have ever made and you won't find me calling anyone "ignorant".

                As far as conspiracies theories goes...

                If someone tells me that they are the Senator from the Republic of Missouri ( or anything like that )...

                ...I'm calling them a kook and I don't care what you or anyone else says.

                I believe I saw your thank you to Bravo for posting that video.

                As far as I'm concerned...

                He takes advantage of frustrated people who won't do any homework and Kurt, blew him and all that crap he was talking about out of the water.


                There are many people ( and you seem to be one of them )...


                ..who can't separate the emotional/factual statements like...

                ...Americans are being fleeced and treated unfair by people in the government etc.

                ( which is very easy for everyone to agree with these days )



                ...from purely factual statements such as... ( for example )

                ... because of this and that legal ruling we are all some type of sovereign citizens and
                now we don't have to pay taxes and/or we've been taken over by some secret corporation etc.

                People are mixing up and/or combining the emotional and the factual and then they start thinking people - like that dude in the video that Bravo posted have some validity.

                I never said the people who follow him are kooks.

                I said and I maintain he's a Kook.

                I then modified it by saying he's not a Kook he's trying to profit from his activities.

                As far as being able to give and not take, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

                As long as I'm ignorant in your mind I'll have to take the unfortunate step of calling you an ass.

                All The Best!!


                TL
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                  Thom,

                  All I said was I'm not doing what I believe is someone's job at a FF joint.

                  I never even came close to hinting that I was better than anyone for my position on this subject.

                  You came up with all that.

                  I have suggested that folks like you have been conditioned by FF joints to feel the way you feel on this subject ...

                  ...and I'm sticking to it.

                  I walked back the stuff about y'all being job killers.

                  I bet you can go through every post I have ever made and you won't find me calling anyone "ignorant".

                  As far as conspiracies theories goes...

                  If someone tells me that they are the Senator from the Republic of Missouri ( or anything like that )...

                  ...I'm calling them a kook and I don't care what you or anyone else says.

                  I believe I saw your thank you to Bravo for posting that video.

                  As far as I'm concerned...

                  He takes advantage of frustrated people who won't do any homework and Kurt, blew him and all that crap he was talking about out of the water.


                  There are many people ( and you seem to be one of them )...


                  ..who can't separate the emotional/factual statements like...

                  ...Americans are being fleeced and treated unfair by people in the government etc.

                  ( which is very easy for everyone to agree with these days )



                  ...from purely factual statements such as... ( for example )

                  ... because of this and that legal ruling we are all some type of sovereign citizens and
                  now we don't have to pay taxes and/or we've been taken over by some secret corporation etc.

                  People are mixing up and/or combining the emotional and the factual and then they start thinking people - like that dude in the video that Bravo posted have some validity.

                  I never said the people who follow him are kooks.

                  I said and I maintain he's a Kook.

                  I then modified it by saying he's not a Kook he's trying to profit from his activities.

                  As far as being able to give and not take, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

                  As long as I'm ignorant in your mind I'll have to take the unfortunate step of calling you an ass.

                  All The Best!!


                  TL
                  Tl even though I disagree with what you are saying and disagree with your perception of me, I do respect the fact that you are sticky to it.
                  Forums are really crappy place to form opinions about people IMHO, and that goes for me as well as you or anyone else.
                  If we met in person and had a chance to talk, I don't know if either of our opinions of each other would change, but at least then we could both form a better more honest opinion of each other.
                  I really didn't mean to imply that you where ignorant, just that what you did I consider ignorant.
                  I also think I've carried this on much longer then I should have and for that I will and do apologize.
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                  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    Tl even though I disagree with what you are saying and disagree with your perception of me, I do respect the fact that you are sticky to it.
                    Forums are really crappy place to form opinions about people IMHO, and that goes for me as well as you or anyone else.
                    If we met in person and had a chance to talk, I don't know if either of our opinions of each other would change, but at least then we could both form a better more honest opinion of each other.
                    I really didn't mean to imply that you where ignorant, just that what you did I consider ignorant.
                    I also think I've carried this on much longer then I should have and for that I will and do apologize.


                    Unless a person in this forum or anywhere else, shows a ongoing an consistent "hunger for knowledge", is overly argumentative and has a healthy disrespect for generally agreed on facts...

                    ...I'm not going to refer to their entire person-hood as ignorant.

                    That's all I'm saying Thom.


                    All The Best!!

                    Happy Independence Day!

                    TL
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                      Unless a person in this forum or anywhere else, shows a ongoing an consistent "hunger for knowledge", is overly argumentative and has a healthy disrespect for generally agreed on facts...

                      ...I'm not going to refer to their entire person-hood as ignorant.

                      That's all I'm saying Thom.


                      All The Best!!

                      Happy Independence Day!

                      TL
                      You just don't know when to drop something do you.
                      You asked for our opinions. In my second reply I said this.
                      "Personally I think people who leave their messes for others to take care of are ignorant."
                      THAT IS AN OPINION!
                      You turned that into me calling you ignorant.
                      When you did that I started thinking you may be right.
                      Again an OPINION.
                      Seems to me if you ask for peoples opinions you should be prepared to hear them and not get all bent out of shape because you don't like them.
                      When my daughter was ten if she asked for an opinion and didn't like what she heard she would get bent out of shape. Now as an adult if she asks for an opinion and doesn't like what she hears she will think about it and if she doesn't agree she drops it and moves on.
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                      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                        You just don't know when to drop something do you.
                        You asked for our opinions. In my second reply I said this.
                        "Personally I think people who leave their messes for others to take care of are ignorant."
                        THAT IS AN OPINION!
                        You turned that into me calling you ignorant.
                        When you did that I started thinking you may be right.
                        Again an OPINION.
                        Seems to me if you ask for peoples opinions you should be prepared to hear them and not get all bent out of shape because you don't like them.
                        When my daughter was ten if she asked for an opinion and didn't like what she heard she would get bent out of shape. Now as an adult if she asks for an opinion and doesn't like what she hears she will think about it and if she doesn't agree she drops it and moves on.
                        LOL!!

                        Thanks for the laugh.

                        You have my sincerest & humblest apologies.

                        Let's declare a peace on such a great day.

                        All The Best!

                        TL
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                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                          LOL!!

                          Thanks for the laugh.

                          You have my sincerest & humblest apologies.

                          Let's declare a peace on such a great day.

                          All The Best!

                          TL
                          You're welcome
                          Thank you for the apology, though I don't feel you really need to.
                          Peace shall be declared on this great day
                          Enjoy your day and the fireworks tonight.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          Thanks Ray!

          First of all maybe you make a big mess every time you eat in a FF joint.

          You're acting like I've leave food on the seats and all over the table ala Animal House.

          I don't.

          Everything is on the tray.


          Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

          "Neither, I came here to eat not to do another person's job.

          and...

          Help me understand why I should put my hands on that nasty-ass garbage can when there is someone right over there who's getting paid to do it for me?
          Do you realize you just contradicted yourself? And NO, they AEN'T paid to do it. Earlier in this thread someone said she saw TWO people FIRED for doing it!!!!

          WOW, you REALLY get angry over minutia!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Well maybe you should let the kid know its good to clean after yourself, but in some cases you should let the employees do it, it could look bad for them (they mighyt get the sack) if you do it while they are on duty, as it might give the wrong impression
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I always put my trash in the garbage. It's not only a courtesy to the worker, but a courtesy to other patrons who might need a table before the staff can clean them.

    If you're not leaving a tip, you shouldn't leave the mess, IMO.

    I think your children would be better offer learning courtesy and respect for others than learning to leave garbage behind, but I guess that's just me.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I always put my trash in the garbage. It's not only a courtesy to the worker, but a courtesy to other patrons who might need a table before the staff can clean them.

      If you're not leaving a tip, you shouldn't leave the mess, IMO.

      I think your children would be better offer learning courtesy and respect for others than learning to leave garbage behind, but I guess that's just me.

      Dude, my child is learning courtesy and respect for others in all situations that are warranted by me.

      She & her mother disagrees with me on this issue and they have been informed that they are most welcome to take up and dump their trays etc.

      But that's just me.

      All The Best!!

      TL
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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    I've worked at many fast food places and you really don't understand how annoying that is unless you work there.

    You may think that you are doing our jobs... the average person at a fast food place is supposed to be working several jobs at once! My job at McDonalds was to take orders at the counter, fill drinks, take the food out of the bin and put it on trays, keep all the sauces stocked, keep behind the counter clean, wipe off all the tables, and keep the floors in the lobby swept.

    You know Mystery Shoppers? I had coworkers get fired because they couldn't get to the lobby to clean up messes customers left because they were busy taking orders.

    Not to mention, do you know how much those people are paid? Not nearly enough for the work and the crud customers put them through. When you can't even dump your own tray it makes you look a. disrespectful, b. lazy, c. convinced you are better than the people who work there and the customers that are willing to dump their tray.

    Seriously, it takes 5 seconds on your way out the door. There is a reason they put them by the door. When you go to a regular restaurant the waiters are paid more and get tips. The food costs more. THAT is why you aren't expected to pick up after yourself at a normal restaurant.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by AmandaT View Post

      I've worked at many fast food places and you really don't understand how annoying that is unless you work there.

      You may think that you are doing our jobs... the average person at a fast food place is supposed to be working several jobs at once! My job at McDonalds was to take orders at the counter, fill drinks, take the food out of the bin and put it on trays, keep all the sauces stocked, keep behind the counter clean, wipe off all the tables, and keep the floors in the lobby swept.

      You know Mystery Shoppers? I had coworkers get fired because they couldn't get to the lobby to clean up messes customers left because they were busy taking orders.

      Not to mention, do you know how much those people are paid? Not nearly enough for the work and the crud customers put them through. When you can't even dump your own tray it makes you look a. disrespectful, b. lazy, c. convinced you are better than the people who work there and the customers that are willing to dump their tray.

      Seriously, it takes 5 seconds on your way out the door. There is a reason they put them by the door. When you go to a regular restaurant the waiters are paid more and get tips. The food costs more. THAT is why you aren't expected to pick up after yourself at a normal restaurant.
      Sounds like you should be blaming your employers and not the customers, IMO.

      And if it only takes 5 seconds for a customer to do, it only takes 5 seconds for an employee, also. After all, shouldn't EVERY table be wiped down before another customer sits there?

      I don't know about some of the others on this thread, but I'm far more concerned with the cleanliness of the table BEFORE I eat, than after.
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  • Profile picture of the author woodyear99
    Hmm I always clean up after myself when at a fast food restaurant. I guess I was trained as a child to not leave stuff on the table. Would just feel wrong if I didn't do that.
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  • Profile picture of the author popopdc
    I pick up my trash and put it in the trash can. Everyone should do that...
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  • Profile picture of the author cherryannml
    Yes, you should clean-up after yourself. The employees in uniform have to wipe the tables so you would not be taking their jobs away. Don't let everyone else pay for one bad incident.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Steve, I agree with you,tipping in general is not begging.
    And I do tip for good service.
    I like to tip well I think,but at the same token,if I get bad service I either don't leave a tip or leave a small one.
    On rare occasions when the service and food both are sup par I will leave a penny.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Steve, I agree with you,tipping in general is not begging.
      And I do tip for good service.
      I like to tip well I think,but at the same token,if I get bad service I either don't leave a tip or leave a small one.
      On rare occasions when the service and food both are sup par I will leave a penny.
      SAME HERE!
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  • Profile picture of the author Easy Marketer
    Where I've been they usually have a place to put your rubbish and tray. That's what it's for. If there's no facility to rid yourself or your leftovers and rubbish you could assume they don't expect you to do it. In saying that I always take plates, cups etc to a counter when it is practical and not a waiter served place.
    Of course a work employee cleans the tables. They don't leave someone else's rubbish for the next person because they are too lazy to clean it up.
    I think you use your own intitiative about what is expected.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Kurt, I'm not looking for a fight,but what FF places did that service in the past? I have grown up with most of the chains and I can't recall a single one that provided help to clean up after the customers,unless you mean drive in which did have have carhops that would come to the car and take the tray with your trash on it away for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Kurt, I'm not looking for a fight,but what FF places did that service in the past? I have grown up with most of the chains and I can't recall a single one that provided help to clean up after the customers,unless you mean drive in which did have have carhops that would come to the car and take the tray with your trash on it away for you.
      For almost 1/2 my life, I thought car hops were GONE! Still, even many restaurants that USED to have car hops don't anymore. And restaurants are basically REQUIRED to have "clean" tables. If they don't, and a health inspector comes in and feels they are too bad, YIKES! So I think ALL "provide help". But that doesn't mean they consider it their job. It is like someone spray painting your car black. NOW, you have to get it cleaned up, but it was NOT your responsibility.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Kurt, I'm not looking for a fight,but what FF places did that service in the past? I have grown up with most of the chains and I can't recall a single one that provided help to clean up after the customers,unless you mean drive in which did have have carhops that would come to the car and take the tray with your trash on it away for you.
      Every one I know of, including Taco Bell when I worked there for 6 weeks as a teenager. We would take turns "on the floor" with a cart and dumped the trays.

      It was actually the "best" job to have, as it was the easiest and less stressful.

      But, a dedicated floor person wasn't needed for the entire shift, only for the 90 minute or so lunch rush. The rest of the time a worker would make a quick trip out on the floor to clean up as needed.

      However, if you're too "old", there probably wasn't even a dining area in McDs during your youth. And yes, when you're outdoors, you bus your own table so the wind doesn't blow the trash away, no matter what.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        Every one I know of, including Taco Bell when I worked there for 6 weeks as a teenager. We would take turns "on the floor" with a cart and dumped the trays.

        It was actually the "best" job to have, as it was the easiest and less stressful.

        But, a dedicated floor person wasn't needed for the entire shift, only for the 90 minute or so lunch rush. The rest of the time a worker would make a quick trip out on the floor to clean up as needed.

        However, if you're too "old", there probably wasn't even a dining area in McDs during your youth. And yes, when you're outdoors, you bus your own table so the wind doesn't blow the trash away, no matter what.

        No, we did not have table cleaners in any FF joint where I grew up. Wish we did though

        They did walk around and wipe down tables, but none had employees to clear the trash from the tables. The patrons always cleared their own (for the most part).

        However, I do recall the old McD's walk-in/Drive-in only places. There was one about a mile from my house. They changed it to a regular sit down place in the late 70s or early 80s. It was fun to watch because the built the new place around the walk-in place and only needed to close for a short time.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Steve,the only place I know that still has carhops is Sonic. They come to the car on roller skates.
    As far cleaning tables, most FF places would have someone sporadically go into the lobby and police it,which mean they would clean off then wipe down dirty tables, refill the napkin holders,make sure the straw dispenser was filled,plenty of salt,pepper,mustard and ketchup packets were out. But there never was someone whose only job was working in the lobby.
    Recently,as in the past year, I have seen a couple of McDonalds that actually do have someone like that.That person seems to be a goodwill ambasssador,coming up wanting know know how things are,if you need anything else, and generally seeing if you are satisfied.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Steve,the only place I know that still has carhops is Sonic. They come to the car on roller skates.
      As far cleaning tables, most FF places would have someone sporadically go into the lobby and police it,which mean they would clean off then wipe down dirty tables, refill the napkin holders,make sure the straw dispenser was filled,plenty of salt,pepper,mustard and ketchup packets were out. But there never was someone whose only job was working in the lobby.
      Recently,as in the past year, I have seen a couple of McDonalds that actually do have someone like that.That person seems to be a goodwill ambasssador,coming up wanting know know how things are,if you need anything else, and generally seeing if you are satisfied.
      There IS VARSITY, though they aren't a chain. THEY claim to have STARTED the craze! One said the car hop used to hop onto the running board, as they drove up, and that was where the term came from. Supposedly, as I recall, SOME bob's big boys still do. But I used to always enjoy simply driving up to places like A&W and having them come out, etc... Of course, I was just a young kid then. I ALSO kind of liked the driveins. Now THEY are probably all gone TOO.

      As for cleaning up, YEAH, that is what I am talking about. Fast food places try to keep costs LOW! After all, people take a chance when they order. And not everyone is a visitor. If costs get too high, they will go ELSEWHERE.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        There IS VARSITY, though they aren't a chain. THEY claim to have STARTED the craze! One said the car hop used to hop onto the running board, as they drove up, and that was where the term came from. Supposedly, as I recall, SOME bob's big boys still do. But I used to always enjoy simply driving up to places like A&W and having them come out, etc... Of course, I was just a young kid then. I ALSO kind of liked the driveins. Now THEY are probably all gone TOO.

        As for cleaning up, YEAH, that is what I am talking about. Fast food places try to keep costs LOW! After all, people take a chance when they order. And not everyone is a visitor. If costs get too high, they will go ELSEWHERE.

        Steve
        Steve a friend and I rode up to the A&W in MIddlebury Vt. last year where they still do that. In fact we where sitting at a picnic table and the girl came to the table to take our order. WHen we first got there, because of riding our motorcycles, we tried to order at the window. One of the girls very politely told us to have a seat and she would take our order.
        We still took care of our own trash though
        Do you mean these drive ins?
        This place is about 6 miles from me and has been operating since 52.
        History
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  • Profile picture of the author Gourmet Gifts
    I like the idea of setting an example. And it just feels right to make some sort of effort - leaving your junk on the table and getting up and walking out leaves me feeling crap.
    Let alone eating all that salt and processed stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Steve,
    For the life of me I can't remember where I saw it,but I swear I recently (as in the past year or so) saw a new drive in opening somewhere. It was small and only going to be open on weekends,but it was selling the nostalgia of the good old days.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "Help me understand why I should put my hands on that nasty-ass garbage can when there is someone right over there who's getting paid to do it for me?"

    I still think you have made an error in judgement on what the person "right over there" job really is.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      She & her mother disagrees with me on this issue and they have been informed that they are most welcome to take up and dump their trays etc.
      That's interesting.

      Tells me that the initial question of "am I setting a bad example for my kid" wasn't the reason you asked the question. As your daughter seems to have good manners herself - I have to wonder if the point is proving you are right.

      If your daughter said "hey, dad, you need to toss your mess away" - to me the best response is "thanks for reminding me - you're a good kid".

      Somehow I think perhaps your response would be "I don't have to do that because...."

      Children have great clarity of "right" and "wrong". Don't be surprised if the lesson learned is not "others are paid to do this" but "my dad is stubborn".
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        That's interesting.

        Tells me that the initial question of "am I setting a bad example for my kid" wasn't the reason you asked the question. As your daughter seems to have good manners herself - I have to wonder if the point is proving you are right.

        If your daughter said "hey, dad, you need to toss your mess away" - to me the best response is "thanks for reminding me - you're a good kid".

        Somehow I think perhaps your response would be "I don't have to do that because...."

        Children have great clarity of "right" and "wrong". Don't be surprised if the lesson learned is not "others are paid to do this" but "my dad is stubborn".
        Kay,

        When I launched this thread I knew the vast majority of folks would side against me because that's the way it is.

        I do not have to be right all the time.

        Kay,

        My daughter has said something like that that to me before...

        ... and I have given her my reasoning for not taking the actions she has requested - in this particular situation.

        One lesson I do want my kid to learn is that it's OK to be stubborn when you believe you're right and as far as I'm concerned that's a good lesson to learn.

        Now, learning to compromise in life is also a very good lesson to learn but in this case do I have to dump my tray just because everyone else is doing it??

        All The Best!!


        TL
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      "Help me understand why I should put my hands on that nasty-ass garbage can when there is someone right over there who's getting paid to do it for me?"

      I still think you have made an error in judgement on what the person "right over there" job really is.
      And as far as I'm concerned the same could be said for you.


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        And as far as I'm concerned the same could be said for you.


        TL
        Yes it could be. You can say anything you'd like that will help you justify your stance. I was actually giving you an out of a situation that you have boxed yourself into.
        It really doesn't matter to me if you clean up after yourself or not.
        But lets take your theory. You don't clean up after yourself. Because of people that don't clean up after themselves the FF places hires someone to stand around and wait for people like that to leave.
        Hiring someone to do that means more expenses.More expenses without raising costs means less profit. They are there to make a profit. Therefore they raise prices.
        Therefore you not cleaning up after yourself means I as a consumer am paying more,but not getting more value,because I still continue to clean up after myself.
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        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by KimW View Post

          Yes it could be. You can say anything you'd like that will help you justify your stance. I was actually giving you an out of a situation that you have boxed yourself into.
          It really doesn't matter to me if you clean up after yourself or not.
          But lets take your theory. You don't clean up after yourself. Because of people that don't clean up after themselves the FF places hires someone to stand around and wait for people like that to leave.
          Hiring someone to do that means more expenses.More expenses without raising costs means less profit. They are there to make a profit. Therefore they raise prices.
          Therefore you not cleaning up after yourself means I as a consumer am paying more,but not getting more value,because I still continue to clean up after myself.
          Kim, there is no proof that people not dumping their tray would lead to a loss of jobs at FF places.

          There is also no proof that prices would rise.

          Maybe it's regional.

          At the FF joints in my area, there are workers already working the floor at all times unless there's no one in the joint.

          TL
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    In all my years of visiting FF joints (and there have been many) only ONCE have I ever seen one employ actual bus-persons to clean the tables. This was at a Wendy's back in the mid 80s in the Seattle area.

    Where I grew up in NJ/NY, it was always expected, and signs posted, to deposit your trash and leave your trays, so by doing this, there were no jobs to be lost.

    Maybe it was different where you grew up TL, but the "I am saving jobs..." rationale would not work around here.

    To this day, I still clean up at FF joints when I leave and have taught all my kids to do the same. I don't feel bad about it. I don't feel like I am doing anything special either. It is what it is - a long-standing habit.

    I will say this though...

    When I walk in to one of these places and watch others get up and leave their mess on the table, I consider them to be a slob. It takes seconds to deposit the trash on the way out and leave a reasonably clean table for the next patron. Also known as "common courtesy".

    BTW - no judgement on you in my post. Just my observations.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      In all my years of visiting FF joints (and there have been many) only ONCE have I ever seen one employ actual bus-persons to clean the tables. This was at a Wendy's back in the mid 80s in the Seattle area.

      Where I grew up in NJ/NY, it was always expected, and signs posted, to deposit your trash and leave your trays, so by doing this, there were no jobs to be lost.

      Maybe it was different where you grew up TL, but the "I am saving jobs..." rationale would not work around here.

      To this day, I still clean up at FF joints when I leave and have taught all my kids to do the same. I don't feel bad about it. I don't feel like I am doing anything special either. It is what it is - a long-standing habit.

      I will say this though...

      When I walk in to one of these places and watch others get up and leave their mess on the table, I consider them to be a slob. It takes seconds to deposit the trash on the way out and leave a reasonably clean table for the next patron. Also known as "common courtesy".

      BTW - no judgement on you in my post. Just my observations.
      Thank you Mike.

      TL
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  • Profile picture of the author scottj2
    You pay the price for what you do or don't get.

    Using tray to clean up trash is easy to do in FF restaurant, but there is nothing worse than sitting down to sticky table because employee could not see table needed wiping.

    Leaving 1 crumpled napkin on center of table ensures employee easy picks with one hand and wipes with the other. This is least amount of trouble - keeps employee's job, an overall cleaner restaurant, I don't have find another table after sitting down.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      I ALSO kind of liked the driveins. Now THEY are probably all gone TOO.
      We have a drive-in in my town, and one in a neighboring town. Both are former A & W drive-ins and both are very successful. They're not national chain anymore, but other than the name not much has changed. They even both still serve the delicious draft root beer.

      Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

      Dude, my child is learning courtesy and respect for others in all situations that are warranted by me.

      She & her mother disagrees with me on this issue and they have been informed that they are most welcome to take up and dump their trays etc.

      But that's just me.

      All The Best!!

      TL
      1. My name is not dude.

      2. In observing your answers to other people, some of which border on rude IMO, it's beginning to look like you started this thread to argue. You asked what we think, then you debate the answers you get. Did you want our opinions or did you just want to argue with anyone who posits an opinion you don't like?

      I am thankful your children have a mother that sets, in my opinion, a better example.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    ...why wouldn't you leave a tip just like you would in an expensive joint?
    Because at an expensive joint I don't have to wait in line and then carry my own food to the table, get my own condimets and carry them back, or have to go back and stand in line again if I decide I want something else.

    I have to say - I agree that we have been conditioned not to expect ANYTHING but to be willing to pay for everything. I went to a gas station about 2 years ago - they pumped my gas, washed my windshield, and asked if I wanted my oil or tires checked. I was so freaking excited that I tipped the guy pumping my gas. It was such a thrill to get some service while my wallet was being drained from the gas prices.

    I can't imagine putting some fast food in my mouth ever again - but there are a few places I will eat. I expect them to clean up after me. I don't pay to service myself and after standing in line to get food and having to get all the fixings (which they could be gracious and leave at tables, but they don't - they can damned well clean up after me. If we started demanding service again, we might just find that we actually get some.

    In scouts they call it 'Leave No Trace' and in metro areas, littering is a crime.
    We aren't talking about the people who take their wrappers and bags out the door and dump them on the streets or in the wilds. We're talking about leaving them on a table in a place - whether the service should be provided or not. I believe it should be provided. It's the very LEAST these companies should do to say thanks for patronizing our place. As one person pointed out earlier, one employee in one establishment followed them out to the car to reprimand them - that is NOT service, it's unconscionable that someone would ever go somewhere that the employees would treat a guest like that. And like it or not - fast food customers that eat in are PAYING guests - in the HOSPITALITY industry. There's a reason it's called hospitality. I choose to patronize only places that understand that concept. If I want to be treated like a convenience or like cattle, I can go deal with the government, not a dining establishment.

    We really need to start expecting more again. Imagine how much business a FF place could do if they had refills on drinks and someone standing by to get them for you so you didn't have to get back into line and wait while your food gets cold.

    The employer should be made to pay a true minimum wage.
    Boy do I agree with that. I don't agree that tipping is a bad thing -- just that an employer should have to pay employees. By not paying the wage they are forcing guests to pay an employees wages and that is wrong. If an employee gives excellent service they deserve to have it count for something other than just survival, too. Who in their right mind is going to work for 3 bucks an hour plus tips when they can work elsewhere for 8 bucks an hour plus tips? Part of those tips, after all, go to paying the taxes employees pay on their food sales - that should be impetus enough for them to give good service. In the states, a waitress pays 8% on food sales - that's 8% of each ticket they write that goes to the gov even if they are only making 2 bucks an hour. There are still people who feel that they should not have to pay for service at all - good or bad. So what happens when a waitress has to serve these creeps? They end up paying to SERVE that person. If an employer can't afford to pay employes, they shouldn't be in business.

    You're probably the person who pisses all over the toilet seat and or takes a dump without flushing just so an employee would have a job. Now there's an example to set for your daughter.
    That's so sick in the head I don't even know how to respond to it. How programmed have you become to think of differing points of view on service to be complete depravity?
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      [QUOTE=HeySal;4186321]

      There are still people who feel that they should not have to pay for service at all - good or bad.

      Yes, we're called Brits

      Because tipping is not in our culture we are embarrassed when someone stands there expecting money for doing their job.

      A British comedian summed it up about a trip to the US.

      He packs his suitcase and lugs it downstairs. He then lugs it to the car and puts it in the boot. He then has to drag it from the boot and toss it on the airport shuttle bus then drag it to the check in desk.

      After the flight you reverse the process but now you lug it to the Hotel Reception desk.

      You have just managed to take your suitcase 4,000 miles.

      From the desk some nice polite young man comes up and says can I take that for you? Why thankyou, aren't Americans charming not like back home. A brit would just say your room is on the second floor and go back to reading the paper or chatting to their mates.

      The nice young man takes your bag from the desk to the lift and from the lift to your room. Maybe 50 to 100m max.

      He then doesn't leave the room but doesn't say anythng either. After 5 mins of embarrassment you realise he wants money.

      Welcome to the US of A!!

      Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

        There are still people who feel that they should not have to pay for service at all - good or bad.

        Yes, we're called Brits

        Because tipping is not in our culture we are embarrassed when someone stands there expecting money for doing their job.

        A British comedian summed it up about a trip to the US.

        He packs his suitcase and lugs it downstairs. He then lugs it to the car and puts it in the boot. He then has to drag it from the boot and toss it on the airport shuttle bus then drag it to the check in desk.

        After the flight you reverse the process but now you lug it to the Hotel Reception desk.

        You have just managed to take your suitcase 4,000 miles.

        From the desk some nice polite young man comes up and says can I take that for you? Why thankyou, aren't Americans charming not like back home. A brit would just say your room is on the second floor and go back to reading the paper or chatting to their mates.

        The nice young man takes your bag from the desk to the lift and from the lift to your room. Maybe 50 to 100m max.

        He then doesn't leave the room but doesn't say anythng either. After 5 mins of embarrassment you realise he wants money.

        Welcome to the US of A!!

        Dan
        If I traveled to another country, I would expect to live by their customs, not my own.

        And in the US, the comedian has a CHOICE, he can carry his own bags or tip someone to do it for him. I like choices.

        I enjoy tipping and tip well. In the USA, it isn't all about the money. It's also a way of telling someone you appreciate them and their effort. It's also a way to make someone else feel good. And being generous also seems to make me feel better about myself as well.

        And for those that don't understand tipping, it can be a great investment. In my younger drinking days I'd go to the local bars, where I was always one of the best tippers. Who do you think got double/triple/quadruple shots of Johnnie Walker Black for an extra buck or two once they got to know me?
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        [quote=jimbo13;4186453]
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


        There are still people who feel that they should not have to pay for service at all - good or bad.

        Yes, we're called Brits

        Because tipping is not in our culture we are embarrassed when someone stands there expecting money for doing their job.


        Dan
        Not every country does things the same way, that's true. In the states, though, when people realize that it's the GUESTS that are paying most of the wages of service employees, and that if there is food sales involved, service personnel are actually paying to serve someone if they aren't tipped, it takes one heck of a lot of the embarrassment out of expecting some sort of gratuity for service they provide.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Who in their right mind is going to work for 3 bucks an hour plus tips when they can work elsewhere for 8 bucks an hour plus tips?
          Sal I've never met a waiter or waitress who gave a hoot what the hourly rate was. They know going into that field that it's all about the tips and that's why they do it.
          You remember John and Laurie?
          John's younger brother started as a busboy at 16 at the Turf Inn with the goal of becoming a waiter, which he achieved at 18. Now 30 years later he owns two homes, a new SUV, his wife has a new car and all are paid for and it was all done on tips as a waiter. Any time he started a new job it was based on what the tips where like, most times he wouldn't know what his hourly rate was until after he got a paycheck. Him and John both used to get in trouble all the time for not cashing their paychecks until the end of the year when they would just deposit them all in the bank.
          It's pretty hard to care about only getting $3. an hour when you make a couple hundred in tips for 3 hours of waiting tables.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            Sal I've never met a waiter or waitress who gave a hoot what the hourly rate was. They know going into that field that it's all about the tips and that's why they do it.
            You remember John and Laurie?
            John's younger brother started as a busboy at 16 at the Turf Inn with the goal of becoming a waiter, which he achieved at 18. Now 30 years later he owns two homes, a new SUV, his wife has a new car and all are paid for and it was all done on tips as a waiter. Any time he started a new job it was based on what the tips where like, most times he wouldn't know what his hourly rate was until after he got a paycheck. Him and John both used to get in trouble all the time for not cashing their paychecks until the end of the year when they would just deposit them all in the bank.
            It's pretty hard to care about only getting $3. an hour when you make a couple hundred in tips for 3 hours of waiting tables.
            My mother never cared about the hourly either. She said all that did was pay for her uniforms and shoes.

            Some days she came home with $150 to $200 (I am going back 30 years or more, so that was a LOT). Most days were probably $75 or so. Compared to the dish washing she did, the office cleaning she did and welfare she spent one year on, being a waitress was a dream job for her.

            She eventually moved in to managing the diners she worked for. Better salary, but made less because there was no tipping. We were all grown and gone by then so she didn't mind.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Tipping is how my mother raised 4 kids with no help from my father.

          Tipping is a good thing, but there are places that really take advantage and DO seem to beg. Case in point, I get my coffee at a Starbucks once in a while. They have a "tip" jar on the counter. I guess they expect a tip for turning around, filling my cup and handing it to me (for a total of about 15 seconds worth of work) - and this on top of the overpriced coffee

          Because of the years in the business that my mother did, and seeing what she went through, I tend to over tip. But I don't mind if the service is exceptional.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        [quote=jimbo13;4186453]
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


        There are still people who feel that they should not have to pay for service at all - good or bad.

        Yes, we're called Brits

        Because tipping is not in our culture we are embarrassed when someone stands there expecting money for doing their job.

        A British comedian summed it up about a trip to the US.

        He packs his suitcase and lugs it downstairs. He then lugs it to the car and puts it in the boot. He then has to drag it from the boot and toss it on the airport shuttle bus then drag it to the check in desk.

        After the flight you reverse the process but now you lug it to the Hotel Reception desk.

        You have just managed to take your suitcase 4,000 miles.

        From the desk some nice polite young man comes up and says can I take that for you? Why thankyou, aren't Americans charming not like back home. A brit would just say your room is on the second floor and go back to reading the paper or chatting to their mates.

        The nice young man takes your bag from the desk to the lift and from the lift to your room. Maybe 50 to 100m max.

        He then doesn't leave the room but doesn't say anythng either. After 5 mins of embarrassment you realise he wants money.

        Welcome to the US of A!!

        Dan
        Actually, historically, brits have PRIDED themselves on doing what you just spoke against and said they DON'T do! In fact, I watched a documentary on it about a year ago. BRITISH people in GREAT BRITAIN were talking about it and said they were PUZZLED why Americans DIDN'T! I COULD elaborate, but it would be considered political. 8-( So don't think you are so perfect, etc...

        BESIDES, when you took the bag all that distance, it was for YOURSELF. And for the record, most hotels DO simply tell you where your room is. If you go to some EXPENSIVE hotels, they may have a bellman, etc... And did you know that some people, like some shuttle drivers, skycaps, etc... DON'T really get paid!!?!?!? It's TRUE! I was on on shuttle, and she said she gets paid less than $3/hour! The ONLY money she gets really are TIPS! BTW let's put it in perspective. $3 * 8 hours(average working day)=$24. *30(average month)=$720. If they are LUCKY, that will pay for a small apartment. That doesn't count taxes, meals, insurance, etc.... I tipped her $10. The trip took about 30 minutes. If she made one trip an hour, and everyone paid her as I did, she would get an average of an extra $320/day(they try to take 4 people at a time). Now THAT would be a good income.

        Apparently many of the courtesy people at airports, like skycaps, ALSO don't get paid, or get paid a VERY small amount. And it is ironic because the airports get paid a LOT in taxes! I'm sure the local goovernment, and federal government, supports them, but they also get like 10% of every ticket sold! They even get a small portion for taxis wanting to get people there, some hotels, car rentals, etc... On my average trip **I** MYSELF probably generate $300+ in revenue for the airport! And yet they provide me with really NOTHING! Apparently any REAL services I get come from the AIRLINE which gets paid off of my ticket.

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Responding to the response about the moronic behavior some display in the bathroom...

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      That's so sick in the head I don't even know how to respond to it. How programmed have you become to think of differing points of view on service to be complete depravity?
      I don't know about the womens restroom, but the MENS restroom can sometimes be HORRIBLE! INCREDIBLE! I go there because I HAVE to go, and spend several minutes cleaning the toilet because I just will NOT sit on such a filhy thing. And if I ever happen to leave a little mess, which is VERY rare, I clean it up. The place is usually CLEANER after I use it.

      Happily, it usually isn't THAT bad, and sometimes there is a clean stall I can use, even if the est are FILTHY, but sometimes it is just INCREDIBLE!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Responding to the response about the moronic behavior some display in the bathroom...



        I don't know about the womens restroom, but the MENS restroom can sometimes be HORRIBLE! INCREDIBLE! I go there because I HAVE to go, and spend several minutes cleaning the toilet because I just will NOT sit on such a filhy thing. And if I ever happen to leave a little mess, which is VERY rare, I clean it up. The place is usually CLEANER after I use it.

        Happily, it usually isn't THAT bad, and sometimes there is a clean stall I can use, even if the est are FILTHY, but sometimes it is just INCREDIBLE!

        Steve
        Steve I used to clean a couple of bars in Tampa years ago.
        Now keep in mind I am basing this comment on only what I saw in those two bars.
        The mens rooms would be filthy. The ladies rooms would make the mens rooms look like sterilized surgical suites.
        Again only what I observed in those two bars, and they where below the bottom of the list of classy bars in Tampa.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          Steve I used to clean a couple of bars in Tampa years ago.
          Now keep in mind I am basing this comment on only what I saw in those two bars.
          The mens rooms would be filthy. The ladies rooms would make the mens rooms look like sterilized surgical suites.
          Again only what I observed in those two bars, and they where below the bottom of the list of classy bars in Tampa.
          Years ago, we had a maintenance and cleaning business (me, my brother and my father). We had one very large corporate account. Every night, my job was the bathrooms and cafeteria.

          First, this was a building filled with college graduates who most definitely SHOULD know better (as opposed to drunks..LOL).

          The mens rooms were usually not TOO bad. The biggest offense was the "sprinkling" on the urinal walls (you guys know what that's from, I'm sure).

          But just like what Thom said - the women's rooms made the mens rooms look like a sterile environment.

          I will not get in to details, but let's just say on almost a daily basis, walking in to these women's restrooms - in a corporate setting - made me want to gag.

          'Nuff said...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Let's see who's really open-minded and will listen to a little logic.

    First, my premise is based on the opinion that a table should be wiped and sanitized after every use.

    For example, I go to Burger King and get a Whopper with extra mayo. I also don't wash my hands before I eat.

    While I'm eating it, I drop a glob of mayo on the table, missing my tray. So, I grab my napkin and wipe up the mayo. I also touch the table in a number of places.

    Now I'm done with my meal and take my tray with the trash and put them away.

    However, wiping up the mayo without a sanitizer won't very likely get all of it...Plus, I've left the germs from my hands all over the tble. And as a little time goes on, the mayo residue will spoil at a pretty fast rate, incubating a bunch of germs.

    Now, because I took up my tray, neither the bus person or the next customers know the table is still "dirty" because the table has only been cleared, and not cleaned.

    So my point is this: Shouldn't a restaurant be responsible for cleaning each and every table after each and every use? I Let's not confusing CLEARING a table with CLEANING a table. There's a big difference between the two words, even though they only swap an "n" with an "r".

    And if you agree the tables should be CLEANED each time, isn't leaving your tray a message to the bus person and following customers that this table isn't CLEAN and needs to be wiped down?
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Let's see who's really open-minded and will listen to a little logic.

      First, my premise is based on the opinion that a table should be wiped and sanitized after every use.

      For example, I go to Burger King and get a Whopper with extra mayo. I also don't wash my hands before I eat.

      While I'm eating it, I drop a glob of mayo on the table, missing my tray. So, I grab my napkin and wipe up the mayo. I also touch the table in a number of places.

      Now I'm done with my meal and take my tray with the trash and put them away.

      However, wiping up the mayo without a sanitizer won't very likely get all of it...Plus, I've left the germs from my hands all over the tble. And as a little time goes on, the mayo residue will spoil at a pretty fast rate, incubating a bunch of germs.

      Now, because I took up my tray, neither the bus person or the next customers know the table is still "dirty" because the table has only been cleared, and not cleaned.

      So my point is this: Shouldn't a restaurant be responsible for cleaning each and every table after each and every use? I Let's not confusing CLEARING a table with CLEANING a table. There's a big difference between the two words, even though they only swap an "n" with an "r".

      And if you agree the tables should be CLEANED each time, isn't leaving your tray a message to the bus person and following customers that this table isn't CLEAN and needs to be wiped down?

      The question TL laid out was should HE clean up after himself, not whether the tables should be cleaned and sanitized.

      However, yes, they SHOULD be cleaned properly after use.

      Unfortunately, that's not how it works in a Fast Food joint.

      The reason you can get a 1/3 pound burger, large fries and a large drink (with free refills) for about 6 bucks (depending on where you live) is because these places skip certain amenities, such as waiters/waitresses, bus persons, etc.

      If you want to be served, cleaned up after and have a cleaner table, there are always sit-down restaurants and diners. Where a 1/3 pound burger, large fries and a drink (with refills) will cost more like $15

      We have choices. Cleaner tables/higher prices or cheaper food and clean up after yourself. So if those greasy, dirty tables don't suit you, then choose not to eat at those places. Simple solution.

      Again, I am speaking of my own area where I live - there are no fast food joints with dedicated (even only at rush times) people to clean after you. You are expected to do it yourself. I don't know how it is by you though...

      Most of these places do have someone wipe down the tables occasionally, but consider that FF joints usually employ teenagers who would rather be elsewhere and probably use the same rag to clean all the tables without ever rinsing them out
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Put it this way "It is a considerate gesture to clean up after you eat, at least somewhat..." Only an individual can decide if being considerate and giving to others is what they aspire to. I know the waitress, or the wife, or husband, or whoever it is that has the job of cleaning up...the car hop... can always use a glass of human kindness, and its always appreciated when you give someone else an undue break.

    Only one can decide how considerate one wants to be.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    My daughter is a waitress.Granted,its not at a FF place,but its nothing fancy either.
    Most days,but not all, she brings home 100-300 dollars in tips. But she does work hard for her tips. As I said before, tipping is not begging.

    Kurt, I do agree that the tables need to be cleaned and sanitized.That is why the places have people go out at regular intervals and clean and sanitize every unoccupied table.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I've seen what people do to bathrooms, too - and it's grotesque. Not sure where they are brought up - or IF they are actually brought up. That is a whole different issue than whether you leave a table without cleaning it. Having a view that someone in a hospitality business should give hospitality is a little different in my eyes than a human acting like an animal in a rest room. I heard of people that work in stores complaining that people have taken a crap in dressing rooms. The kind of person that does that sort of thing is just really mentally ill and NOBODY should be subjected to having to clean up after someone else like that.

    Kim - sounds like your daughter has a good job. Not all service personnel are lucky enough to work where people tip that well. There are all sorts of cafes and family restaurants across America where even the best service you could ask for will barely equal out to minimum wage for the employees.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I've seen what people do to bathrooms, too - and it's grotesque. Not sure where they are brought up - or IF they are actually brought up. That is a whole different issue than whether you leave a table without cleaning it. Having a view that someone in a hospitality business should give hospitality is a little different in my eyes than a human acting like an animal in a rest room. I heard of people that work in stores complaining that people have taken a crap in dressing rooms. The kind of person that does that sort of thing is just really mentally ill and NOBODY should be subjected to having to clean up after someone else like that.

      Kim - sounds like your daughter has a good job. Not all service personnel are lucky enough to work where people tip that well. There are all sorts of cafes and family restaurants across America where even the best service you could ask for will barely equal out to minimum wage for the employees.
      Crap stories... ok, I have one

      A good friend of mine and her husband went on a vacation some years ago. When they arrived, they picked up their luggage and went to the hotel. When she opened her suitcase, she found all her contents were messed up. The clothes were rolled in to balls, etc.

      Upon unwrapping the clothes, she found one was wrapped around a load of crap. Literally.

      Sick.

      Tips - when my mother did best as a waitress she worked in diners. Low priced foods, low check amounts but VERY fast turnover. She made money by being both good, and fast.

      At one point she worked at a very expensive place. She made crap tips. Turns out the "well-to-do's" that frequented places like this were cheaper in the tips department. And of course, the customers spent much more time at the tables so the turnover was slower.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I've seen what people do to bathrooms, too - and it's grotesque. Not sure where they are brought up - or IF they are actually brought up. That is a whole different issue than whether you leave a table without cleaning it.
      Well HEY, the new idea expressed in this thread fits the TOILETS! Make more work to create jobs! WHY touch the disgusting crap? There is a guy right over there whose job is to do just THIS! Did YOU know that in O'Hare airport the toilets pull a plastic tube around in a FEEBLE attempt to keep them clean? LUDICROUS!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author nickbensond
        It just comes down to respecting your fellow man as far as I'm concerned. I'm a truck driver and I see this habit of leaving garbage behind and being ok with it day in and day out . Many of the washrooms have toilets that automaticly flush by themselves when you're done. You can tell a lot about a persons character by the condition you leave the restaraunt on your way out.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by nickbensond View Post

          It just comes down to respecting your fellow man as far as I'm concerned. I'm a truck driver and I see this habit of leaving garbage behind and being ok with it day in and day out . Many of the washrooms have toilets that automaticly flush by themselves when you're done. You can tell a lot about a persons character by the condition you leave the restaraunt on your way out.
          That's ANOTHER thing! I HATE those! One once flushed like 5 times WHILE I WAS ON IT! And they may flsuh 3 times while I am leaving.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "Tips - when my mother did best as a waitress she worked in diners. Low priced foods, low check amounts but VERY fast turnover. She made money by being both good, and fast."

    Mike, thats exactly the type of place my daughter works and how she works. I'm guessing your mother had a lot of repeat clientel. I know my daughter does,mostly older retired men that will tip well for a smile from an attractive young lady thats nice to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Kimw,

    In a perfect world I would think that a GOOD restaurant with LOW prices and a good turn around would be better for tips. If the food is bad, or expensive, I am less willing to tip so much. And MANY may wait a LONG time in posh restaurants, but not pay tips during that time. I'm glad your daughter does so well.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      "Tips - when my mother did best as a waitress she worked in diners. Low priced foods, low check amounts but VERY fast turnover. She made money by being both good, and fast."

      Mike, thats exactly the type of place my daughter works and how she works. I'm guessing your mother had a lot of repeat clientel. I know my daughter does,mostly older retired men that will tip well for a smile from an attractive young lady thats nice to them.

      Yes. Many times, her repeat customers would wait if all her tables were filled. Even if there were others available. She loved what she did. It was hard work but she took a lot of pride in doing it. And it showed to her customers. They showed their appreciation with tips.


      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Kimw,

      In a perfect world I would think that a GOOD restaurant with LOW prices and a good turn around would be better for tips. If the food is bad, or expensive, I am less willing to tip so much. And MANY may wait a LONG time in posh restaurants, but not pay tips during that time. I'm glad your daughter does so well.

      Steve

      Even though tips are usually calculated from the check total, punishing the waiter/waitress by tipping less because the food was not to your standard is wrong. They don't cook it - they serve it.

      If they are slow and the food comes to your table cold, then yes - less tip. But if the steak is over/under cooked, you should take it up with the management. Actually, you should have the server take it back on the spot...but if you don't do that, then complain. But if the server did their job, you should base your tip on that.

      My tips always START at 17%. If the server was poor, it goes down. If they were "fine" is remains at 17%. If they were exceptional, it goes up. I have left tips as much as 25% - 30% for the VERY good ones.

      Now, here is something my mother told me...

      When you get very good service, leave an extra 2 cents with the good tip. That tells the server you thought they were excellent. If they were VERY bad, then JUST leave the 2 cents. That sends the message that you though they were horrible. Simply leaving nothing or less of a tip, they usually take to mean you simply ran out of money and they don't get the message...
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        Even though tips are usually calculated from the check total, punishing the waiter/waitress by tipping less because the food was not to your standard is wrong. They don't cook it - they serve it.

        If they are slow and the food comes to your table cold, then yes - less tip. But if the steak is over/under cooked, you should take it up with the management. Actually, you should have the server take it back on the spot...but if you don't do that, then complain. But if the server did their job, you should base your tip on that.

        My tips always START at 17%. If the server was poor, it goes down. If they were "fine" is remains at 17%. If they were exceptional, it goes up. I have left tips as much as 25% - 30% for the VERY good ones.

        Now, here is something my mother told me...

        When you get very good service, leave an extra 2 cents with the good tip. That tells the server you thought they were excellent. If they were VERY bad, then JUST leave the 2 cents. That sends the message that you though they were horrible. Simply leaving nothing or less of a tip, they usually take to mean you simply ran out of money and they don't get the message...
        Being an x kitchen rat I never based my tips on the food quality always the service. Every now and then I'll get a meal that makes me think I died and went to heaven. When that happens I ask to speak to the chef and tell him what a great meal it was and give them a tip separate from the tip for the wait staff.
        Some waiters understand how important they are to the customers dining experience, I have a feeling your mother and Kim's daughter where like that. Those types almost never get a tip based on the cost of my meal.
        I've been known to tip $10 on a $10 bill (sandwich and drink) simply because the waiter made me feel at home and welcome.
        There is so much more to being a good waiter the just bring you your meal and clearing the table. Some get it and some don't. The ones that get it get a much bigger tip from me. The ones who don't get a smaller tip, but if they still do the basics right it's a reasonable tip. The ones who suck get very little, but they also get an explanation as to why.
        It will just be a friendly critic with the idea of helping them improve on their service.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Gehr
    I often take my tray, or plate, etc., to the counter and thank the people behind the counter.

    Sometimes, however, if the service was poor, I don't do this, and I don't thank them.

    Generally, I like to offer some sort of positive vibe and taking the tray back to the counter shows a bit of that--in my view.
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  • Profile picture of the author tiwi
    You were asking for our opinion on whether or not you are setting a good example to your child and whether or not we agree that it is acceptable to not clean up after yourself in fastfood and we all pretty much agree that you are not setting a good example. But it seems you are bent on keeping up with what you are doing with or without your daughter's approval. so to each his own, right?
    i clean up before i leave..it's always been a practice and my children does too.
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  • Profile picture of the author lady rossey
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by lady rossey View Post

      its the waitreses job to clean up after eating its part of their job description but that doesnt give you the power to make a complete mess
      1) Fast Food joints don't have waiters/waitresses

      2) In MOST establishments (at least here where I reside), they employ bus persons to clear tables. Good servers will clear out dishes as you finish eating, but in places with bus persons it's their job to clean tables.

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      • Profile picture of the author Henrie Dahl
        In my teens when I was working four part time jobs, one of them was at a 24/7 fast-food joint slash bakery slash grocery store. I made pizzas, burgers, hot dogs, stew, even cinnamons and rolls, lunch baguettes, etc. It was like McDonald's on steroids.

        Like McDonald's, there were no waitresses, just your "allround worker" behind the counter/in the kitchen. When people did NOT take the ten seconds to remove their garbage from the table, it would throughout the day take up a lot of our (the workers) time to do this: time that could have been well spent in the kitchen, properly cleaning the facilities, doing the dishes, scraping off burnt fat on the stove, having two minutes extra to watch the simmering stew so it won't burn. That kind of thing.

        I never wanted people to clean up after themselves so I, who got paid for being there, would have less to do, as in more time for slacking. No, just to take better time with the more important stuff, like mentioned above.

        And for those who took those ten seconds to clean up after themselves, I smiled and wished them a good day and come back soon. They were happy, I was happy.

        Bun in some places the trash cans aren't all that visible, and I can understand why some won't bother/don't have to go around looking for one. But if you do see one ten feet to your left, it's always very much appreciated that you put it to good use.

        So as someone who's been behind that counter, I always make sure to clean up after myself. The only times I don't do it is because I can't for the life of me find that trash can and I don't have time to stand in line to ask one of the employees. I feel then like it's their own fault.

        Cheers,
        Henri
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  • Profile picture of the author jennydarke
    we all know fast food chains want us to do this as a cost saving measure... if it keeps the burgers price down then that's a reason to do it. I guess if the service was poor I might leave my tray... just to really push it home to the management they need to recruit more staff :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      This is an interesting study as a thread.

      The INITIAL premise was not the question asked about what he's teaching his kid....it was based on this statement:

      My daughter wanted to clean up the table but I pointed out the 2 or 3 people walking around with BK uniforms on and said that I didn't want to take away their jobs.

      She was not happy and I didn't care.
      Like others, I thought TL was asking a real question - but further posts showed he wasn't. If my child thought I was being rude in public, I'd adjust my behavior rather than embarrass the kid. If you don't care what your child thinks of your behavior - you won't care what others here think of it.

      Turning it into personal battle is about as ridiculous as it goes, people.
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      • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        This is an interesting study as a thread.

        The INITIAL premise was not the question asked about what he's teaching his kid....it was based on this statement:



        Like others, I thought TL was asking a real question - but further posts showed he wasn't. If my child thought I was being rude in public, I'd adjust my behavior rather than embarrass the kid. If you don't care what your child thinks of your behavior - you won't care what others here think of it.

        Turning it into personal battle is about as ridiculous as it goes, people.
        But Kay, what if your kid IYHO, was wrong on the particular matter.

        Would you still adjust your behavior??

        Or would you explain why you feel as you do??


        TL
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  • Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

    I just went to BK with the kid and after we were done I simply got up, refilled my soda and then walked to my car.

    My daughter wanted to clean up the table but I pointed out the 2 or 3 people walking around with BK uniforms on and said that I didn't want to take away their jobs.

    She was not happy and I didn't care.

    Over a decade ago a worker from McDonalds had the gumption to follow a friend and I out to the car to demand that we return to clean up our mess.

    We laughed so hard I almost hurled.

    IMHO most folks have been conditioned by fast food joints to cleanup after themselves.

    Another one of my rationals for not doing it is...

    ... if I go to an expensive place, I won't be cleaning up after myself, so why should I do it at a fast food joint.

    Am I setting a bad example for my kid???

    Or am I helping maintain jobs?

    All The Best!!

    TL
    I sense some anger in your post.

    And I personally would not raise my daughter to be a slob.

    You should treat any fast food restaurant where employees make minimum wage and don't get tipped as you would your dining room table at home.

    I assume then that you are slovenly at your house.

    Patrick
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by CoolAromas View Post

      I sense some anger in your post.

      And I personally would not raise my daughter to be a slob.

      You should treat any fast food restaurant where employees make minimum wage and don't get tipped as you would your dining room table at home.

      I assume then that you are slovenly at your house.

      Patrick
      This is exactly what I'm talking about.

      All sorts of assumptions about me have been offered because I simply do not believe I should dump my tray at FF joints.

      #1: Mr. Cool senses some anger in my post. ( I don't know what he's talking about )

      #2: I'm not at my dining room table I'm at a FF joint Mr. Cool.

      #3: Mr. Cool assumes I am "slovenly" in my own home.

      #4: Mr. Cool believes I'm raising my daughter to be a slob.

      #5: Someone else said that I'm probably the type of person...

      ... that pisses & does even more all over the bathrooms in FF joints just because I...

      It's amazing!

      All The Best!!

      TL
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  • Profile picture of the author Histemic
    TLTheLiberator - "Every time I have a burger I spill fries and sauce all over the place and leave it for someone else to deal with." Your attitude is bad.

    Great thread though.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "Some waiters understand how important they are to the customers dining experience, I have a feeling your mother and Kim's daughter where like that. Those types almost never get a tip based on the cost of my meal.
    I've been known to tip $10 on a $10 bill (sandwich and drink) simply because the waiter made me feel at home and welcome."

    Exactly Thom.
    Like you I will sometimes tip more than the bill is,based on the service.
    I also like to think that my daughter does so well because she learned from me how much difference a tip can be if the customer is treated well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Or would you explain why you feel as you do??
      Sure, I'd explain - but it would need to be something more important than this for me to argue a defense. I might explain my thinking - but if my actions on such a small item would bother my kid, I'd just clear the damned table.

      There is no upside to your argument. You aren't creating or saving jobs - you aren't leaving a tip for person cleaning up after you. Time with your daughter is precious. You could thank her for reminding you to clear your mess, tell her what a thoughtful person she is - and make her feel valuable and helpful. Much better lesson there.
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      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        I just went to BK with the kid and after we were done I simply got up, refilled my soda and then walked to my car.

        My daughter wanted to clean up the table but I pointed out the 2 or 3 people walking around with BK uniforms on and said that I didn't want to take away their jobs.

        She was not happy and I didn't care.

        Over a decade ago a worker from McDonalds had the gumption to follow a friend and I out to the car to demand that we return to clean up our mess.

        We laughed so hard I almost hurled.

        IMHO most folks have been conditioned by fast food joints to cleanup after themselves.

        Another one of my rationals for not doing it is...

        ... if I go to an expensive place, I won't be cleaning up after myself, so why should I do it at a fast food joint.

        Am I setting a bad example for my kid???

        Or am I helping maintain jobs?

        All The Best!!

        TL
        Sounds like your kid is growing up to be a decent person. Better hope not too much of you spoils it for her though. You're arguing being lazy and then brag about teaching your kid to do the same? You should feel proud of yourself for embarrassing her in public over some sense of false entitlement.

        The song "King Nothing" comes to mind.

        To become a King of something rather than nothing you must serve others. It is the surest path to success. Not cleaning up after yourself seems the opposite of that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
          Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

          Sounds like your kid is growing up to be a decent person. Better hope not too much of you spoils it for her though. You're arguing being lazy and then brag about teaching your kid to do the same? You should feel proud of yourself for embarrassing her in public over some sense of false entitlement.

          The song "King Nothing" comes to mind.

          To become a King of something rather than nothing you must serve others. It is the surest path to success. Not cleaning up after yourself seems the opposite of that.
          BUT...

          HELLO!?!

          Isn't it THEIR job TO serve?

          So, it's only a one way street, huh? If you're the customer then it's your job to serve the staff at the fast food place?

          Oh.my.goodness.

          Again, I RARELY leave my tray in the table, but it doesn't make me "King Nothing" or a bad person.

          Now, go ahead and insult the example I give my children.

          All the best,
          Michael
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          • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

            BUT...

            HELLO!?!

            Isn't it THEIR job TO serve?

            So, it's only a one way street, huh? If you're the customer then it's your job to serve the staff at the fast food place?

            Oh.my.goodness.

            Again, I RARELY leave my tray in the table, but it doesn't make me "King Nothing" or a bad person.

            Now, go ahead and insult the example I give my children.

            All the best,
            Michael
            I raise kids as well. In fact we have six of them. They all know the difference between being lazy and being a servant to others. Thanks for making my day by the way. You reminded me how much I love my kids and how absolutely awesome they are.

            Edit: BTW...I was answering the op not you. But if you are in agreement with the op then I guess the shoe still fits.

            /thread I love debates but this topic is a bit thin for me. I'll jump in on the the next one though. Happy Fourth to my fellow Americans!
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
              Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

              I raise kids as well. In fact we have six of them. They all know the difference between being lazy and being a servant to others. Thanks for making my day by the way. You reminded me how much I love my kids and how absolutely awesome they are.

              Edit: BTW...I was answering the op not you. But if you are in agreement with the op then I guess the shoe still fits.

              /thread I love debates but this topic is a bit thin for me. I'll jump in on the the next one though. Happy Fourth to my fellow Americans!
              Those two comments, taken together, look pretty weak. Kind of like saying, "I can't handle the heat, but I'm going to take one last jab before I leave." Wonder who needs to really be fitted for shoes?



              To be clear, I don't agree with TL completely, just parts of what he's saying. I also don't agree with some of the assumptions people are making about him based on ONE behavior.

              After all, a person could make assumptions about someone who claims he can't handle a thread, but still takes potshots at the participants. If you see what I'm getting at.

              I would say there are much worse character traits than leaving a tray on the table; hypocrisy, for example.

              Anyway, you have my respect, and I hope you can understand the nuances in my posts regarding this issue.

              All the best,
              Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Sure, I'd explain - but it would need to be something more important than this for me to argue a defense. I might explain my thinking - but if my actions on such a small item would bother my kid, I'd just clear the damned table.

        There is no upside to your argument. You aren't creating or saving jobs - you aren't leaving a tip for person cleaning up after you. Time with your daughter is precious. You could thank her for reminding you to clear your mess, tell her what a thoughtful person she is - and make her feel valuable and helpful. Much better lesson there.
        There may be exceptions to this, but here's my thought: It would be an even more powerful lesson now if you started making a habit of clearing your tray, and explaining why.

        Your daughter sees you not taking your tray up, and may understand your reasons for not doing so. BUT...what if you started taking the tray up, and explained how much nicer it is?

        You could certainly not take it up in extreme cases, but why not start a new habit? Just a suggestion.

        All the best,
        Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          There may be exceptions to this, but here's my thought: It would be an even more powerful lesson now if you started making a habit of clearing your tray, and explaining why.

          Your daughter sees you not taking your tray up, and may understand your reasons for not doing so. BUT...what if you started taking the tray up, and explained how much nicer it is?

          You could certainly not take it up in extreme cases, but why not start a new habit? Just a suggestion.

          All the best,
          Michael

          Yes, there ARE exceptions. Your example IS an exception and not at all like the situation TL describes. He simply feels there is someone to do the job. Not that there were issues.

          We can all lay out every possible situation and potential solution, but that's not real productive...

          I have seen situations like the one you describe. My choice wasn't to leave a dirty table because that doesn't change anything. And it does not send a message to them. My choice was to take it up with the manager.

          Let's face it - almost ALL FF joints are staffed with teenagers. What you describe is typical teenaged behavior. It is also a sign of poor management. This is why I take it up with the manager in a case like this.

          Mike

          Edit: Also, taking it up with the manager teaches your kids that they should speak up when they see a problem - not add to the problem by leaving a dirty table in protest. I believe (personally) that this is a much better statement/habit for your kids.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

            Yes, there ARE exceptions. Your example IS an exception and not at all like the situation TL describes.

            We can all lay out every possible situation and potential solution, but that's not real productive...

            I have seen situations like the one you describe. My choice wasn't to leave a dirty table because that doesn't change anything. And it does not send a message to them. My choice was to take it up with the manager.

            Let's face it - almost ALL FF joints are staffed with teenagers. What you describe is typical teenaged behavior. It is also a sign of poor management. This is why I take it up with the manager in a case like this.

            Mike
            Good points. The problem is that the manager WAS one of the people yapping.

            Also, I want to make a distinction between leaving a dirty table, and leaving a tray on the table - there's a difference. We had all of our stuff on the tray, and didn't leave anything on the table. Just the tray with the stuff on it.

            I also felt it was necessary to give a real example where it would be okay (possibly) to leave one's tray on the table, as a lot of people seemed to think there was NEVER a reason for doing so.

            However, if the manager wouldn't have been one of the rude employees, I would have talked to her, AND still left my tray on the table. I most likely would have pointed the tray out to the manager and explained why I left it for her workers to take care of. But that wasn't the case.

            All the best,
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Good points. The problem is that the manager WAS one of the people yapping.

              Also, I want to make a distinction between leaving a dirty table, and leaving a tray on the table - there's a difference. We had all of our stuff on the tray, and didn't leave anything on the table. Just the tray with the stuff on it.

              I also felt it was necessary to give a real example where it would be okay (possibly) to leave one's tray on the table, as a lot of people seemed to think there was NEVER a reason for doing so.

              However, if the manager wouldn't have been one of the rude employees, I would have talked to her, AND still left my tray on the table. I most likely would have pointed the tray out to the manager and explained why I left it for her workers to take care of. But that wasn't the case.

              All the best,
              Michael
              The other issue with FF joints - most of the managers are young too

              I get what you are saying. My wife was in retail for years. She also managed stores (not food) and she can tell how good a manager of a store is almost as soon as she walks in to one.

              In your example, it would still have been more useful for the store to talk to the manager. Perhaps a district manager as well.

              We have a Walmart here in town. We used to do our food shopping there because the prices were so much better.

              But MAN, the store was run like sh1t! 30 registers, but only 2 open. Lines with 7 or 8 customers with full carts...

              And one time, waiting in one of these lines while my frozen food was defrosting, I noticed that there was a broken bottle of Snapple in between two of the checkout lines (from one of those small refrigerated display cases). Broken glass and slippery liquid.

              I gave some serious thought to "slipping" on this mess... but I digress

              Anyway, no less than 3 employees stepped OVER that mess on their way to other things. Completely ignoring it.

              When I got home, I visited the Walmart corporate website, found where to complain, got the store number and vented - big time - ending with the broken bottle.

              It took 2 months, but I got a phone call from the store manager (who was not there that day) and I told her what I thought and that I would not be coming back.

              Did it help? I have no idea, but I can say this... I felt better. And some months later when I did go back, I noticed more lines were open, I noticed cleaner aisles, less crap on the floor, etc. So maybe I made a difference. Most likely they simply got a ton of complaints and replaced the manager...

              Didn't mean to get on that tangent...

              Mike
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            • Profile picture of the author KimW
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Good points. The problem is that the manager WAS one of the people yapping.

              Also, I want to make a distinction between leaving a dirty table, and leaving a tray on the table - there's a difference. We had all of our stuff on the tray, and didn't leave anything on the table. Just the tray with the stuff on it.

              I also felt it was necessary to give a real example where it would be okay (possibly) to leave one's tray on the table, as a lot of people seemed to think there was NEVER a reason for doing so.

              However, if the manager wouldn't have been one of the rude employees, I would have talked to her, AND still left my tray on the table. I most likely would have pointed the tray out to the manager and explained why I left it for her workers to take care of. But that wasn't the case.

              All the best,
              Michael
              Real simple solution, if the manager is part of the problem,the you go to the next rung on the ladder. Especially if the manager is rude.
              That is definitely behavior that company want to know about.

              As far as wanting to show one example where it was ok, there are almost always exceptions to any given situation.
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              • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                Originally Posted by KimW View Post

                Real simple solution, if the manager is part of the problem,the you go to the next rung on the ladder. Especially if the manager is rude.
                That is definitely behavior that company want to know about.

                As far as wanting to show one example where it was ok, there are almost always exceptions to any given situation.
                Point taken, but it just never crossed my mind when it happened.

                Even if the thought had occurred I most likely would have left my tray on the table. But if a similar situation arises in the future, I will go to the manager's superior.

                If I remember correctly, a lof of fast food restaurants will have a piece of paper on the wall naming the owner of the particular franchise location. I'm not saying it's a law, or even that every place posts it, but if it is there, then at least you know who to complain to.

                All the best,
                Michael
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          TL,

          I agree with some of your points (I won't go into that because it would turn political), but I would like to ask you something in terms of setting an example for your kids.

          When you joined the WF you agreed to the TOS - in other words, don't sign up if you don't like our rules.

          Isn't that analogous to a FF restaurant that has signs saying "Please dispose of your tray/rubbish when leaving", i.e. don't eat here if you're going to leave your tray on the table.

          What makes you abide by one set of rules and not the other?

          Kids are very good at using inconsistent adult behaviour to their advantage and maybe now your daughter's thinking, "Well, if it's OK to flout rules at a restaurant, maybe I should start doing it at home and school as well."


          Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      "Some waiters understand how important they are to the customers dining experience, I have a feeling your mother and Kim's daughter where like that. Those types almost never get a tip based on the cost of my meal.
      I've been known to tip $10 on a $10 bill (sandwich and drink) simply because the waiter made me feel at home and welcome."

      Exactly Thom.
      Like you I will sometimes tip more than the bill is,based on the service.
      I also like to think that my daughter does so well because she learned from me how much difference a tip can be if the customer is treated well.

      On our recent vacation, we stopped to get a quick lunch at Friendly's - cheap, standard fare...

      Well, we didn't notice that there was a truck that they were unloading with supplies. They told us they had no chicken tenders (my son) so he selected something else.

      We waited...

      And waited...

      The waitress was very nice. Brought us our drinks. Kept them filled. Etc.

      Finally after about 50 minutes, she came out all apologetic, told us the kitchen was JUST getting to our order. Apparently the whole delivery thing threw the place in disarray since the truck rolled in just about lunch time...

      We said thanks but no thanks.

      I tipped her anyway because the problem was not caused by her, but by the manager and the kitchen. She kept us in drinks and was very kind, so I felt she should get something.

      The manager never even came over to say anything when we left...
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Considerate kids are all too rare. If you don't nurture that, they could become the WORST!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I just remembered the last time I left my tray on the table, and hope it will shed some light on my reasons for doing so (which are now very rare).

    We went to a fast food place and we were the only 3 customers in the place.

    1. We were not greeted when we entered the store.

    2. The person behind the counter didn't say a single word. Nothing. They just stared until I ordered.

    3. Once I made the order they snatched the debit card from my hand.

    4. While we were eating there were 5 employees standing around the front counter talking very loudly, AND using "questionable" language.

    5. We were the only 3 customers during this entire time.

    6. THEY obviously had plenty of time to to stand around doing nothing (apart from having no consideration for their customers).

    7. So I left my tray on the table when we left.

    Does that make me an inconsiderate slob? Or is it remotely possible that there may be times when leaving a tray on the table may possibly in some small way be somewhat okay?

    All the best,
    Michael

    p.s. Just wanted to add that I have worked at fast food restaurants so I understand what the other side is like, and I would have NEVEr behaved the way these employees were. Shouldn't THEY ALSO have some level of common decency?

    p.p.s. You guys really are taking your assumptions and villification of TL too far, IMHO.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

      I just remembered the last time I left my tray on the table, and hope it will shed some light on my reasons for doing so (which are now very rare).

      We went to a fast food place and we were the only 3 customers in the place.

      1. We were not greeted when we entered the store.

      2. The person behind the counter didn't say a single word. Nothing. They just stared until I ordered.

      3. Once I made the order they snatched the debit card from my hand.

      4. While we were eating there were 5 employees standing around the front counter talking very loudly, AND using "questionable" language.

      5. We were the only 3 customers during this entire time.

      6. THEY obviously had plenty of time to to stand around doing nothing (apart from having no consideration for their customers).

      7. So I left my tray on the table when we left.

      Does that make me an inconsiderate slob? Or is it remotely possible that there may be times when leaving a tray on the table may possibly in some small way be somewhat okay?

      All the best,
      Michael

      p.s. Just wanted to add that I have worked at fast food restaurants so I understand what the other side is like, and I would have NEVEr behaved the way these employees were. Shouldn't THEY ALSO have some level of common decency?

      p.p.s. You guys really are taking your assumptions and villification of TL too far, IMHO.

      Hey Mike...

      You name it, it's been said about me.

      According to most people (99%), in this thread even in the circumstances you just described above,...

      ... you are a inconsiderate slob of the highest order.

      Luckily none of your kids were with you or you'd be accused of being one of the worst dads on the face of the earth - just because you did not dump your tray at a FF joint.

      All The Best!!

      TL
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Did you leave your tray on the cafeteria table during elementary school lunch (I doubt it)?

    Sounds like OP has low self respect for himself.

    Nice trait to pass on to a child. :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Did you leave your tray on the cafeteria table during elementary school lunch (I doubt it)?

      Sounds like OP has low self respect for himself.

      Nice trait to pass on to a child. :rolleyes:
      Come on! this is the exact kind of stuff I'm talking about. He just leaves his tray on the table at a fast food place and now he has low self-esteem?

      Give me a break!

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

        Come on! this is the exact kind of stuff I'm talking about. He just leaves his tray on the table at a fast food place and now he has low self-esteem?

        Give me a break!

        All the best,
        Michael
        Really? That's all you got out of that?

        Children tend mimic what parents do. How many trash cans did OP pass on the way out the door (at least one)? Sounds like OP was just trying to piss someone off?

        That's what's wrong with society today, a lot of folks just don't give a crap about anyone else besides themselves.

        It's always about #1, what's in it for me? :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author DaveTaylor
    Hi,

    Interesting post and I thought I would chuck in my 2 cents.

    I do usually clean up after myself in BK or McD's even though there are people there to do it.

    First, I don't mind. I used to work in McD's when I was 16 and at peak periods it was really difficult to keep on top of things and I really appreciated customers who at least put their rubbish in the trash.

    Also, it takes me about a minute to do it and I like to help others, especially if it's busy.

    Like I said, just my opinion. I don't have children but my first is due.

    Best wishes,

    David
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by DaveTaylor View Post

      Hi,

      Interesting post and I thought I would chuck in my 2 cents.

      I do usually clean up after myself in BK or McD's even though there are people there to do it.

      First, I don't mind. I used to work in McD's when I was 16 and at peak periods it was really difficult to keep on top of things and I really appreciated customers who at least put their rubbish in the trash.

      Also, it takes me about a minute to do it and I like to help others, especially if it's busy.

      Like I said, just my opinion. I don't have children but my first is due.

      Best wishes,

      David
      DAVID!!!!

      That is SO awesome!

      C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S ! ! !

      All the best,
      Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "According to most people (99%)..."

    Statistics show that 99% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      "According to most people (99%)..."

      Statistics show that 99% of statistics are made up on the spot.
      Kim,

      I know its close to at least 97% since only 3 people have not suggested I am totally wrong and there are over 150 comments.

      Some people have commented at least twice but there's a good chance of at least 100 different people commenting on this thread and only 3 people have not said I am entirely wrong.

      Thanks Kim for trying to give me an out, earlier in this thread but I'll decline the invitation.


      - Kurt

      - Sal

      - Michael Oksa

      I must commend them for their intellectual courage.


      All The Best!!



      TL



      Ps. ( note: I am not calling anyone not mentioned above a coward )
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  • Profile picture of the author tchung
    Yes you should clean up after yourself. Your analogy with a high-end restaurant doesn't make sense, because those people get tips.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    TL - that's the way the programming works. Little things. Take away a service from the people and make them believe others are terrible if they protest that the particular service is not offered.

    Frankly - this whole topic has become complete stupidity. I can't believe that someone would equate someone expecting the service of having their table serviced on their departure in the same light as plastering crap all over a bathroom. What is in people's heads - or being suppressed out of them?

    Here's a new one for you people. -- I would rather sit a table that the person left a tray before me because it's more likely that the table was actually wiped off. It IS their jobs to wipe off tables - if there is nothing on it, they might just not wipe it off either and I am not liking the idea of sitting and eating in someone else's germs.

    On the next note -- this seems to be one hell of a lot of hash over such a small issue. Either way inside the restaurant (and I use that word lightly) the waste will be contained no matter who thinks containing it is whose job.

    What is a much more important issue to me is the people who think that it's okay to throw the papers, cups, etc out their car windows or on the ground in scenic areas. It's pollution, it's toxic (yes there are LOTS of toxins in those nice little wrappers your food is wrapped in) and it's disgustingly ugly to have to look at when you are trying to enjoy the beauty of nature. Discuss throwing trash out on land and we are discussing a true moral and intelligence issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      TL - that's the way the programming works. Little things. Take away a service from the people and make them believe others are terrible if they protest that the particular service is not offered.

      Frankly - this whole topic has become complete stupidity. I can't believe that someone would equate someone expecting the service of having their table serviced on their departure in the same light as plastering crap all over a bathroom. What is in people's heads - or being suppressed out of them?

      Here's a new one for you people. -- I would rather sit a table that the person left a tray before me because it's more likely that the table was actually wiped off. It IS their jobs to wipe off tables - if there is nothing on it, they might just not wipe it off either and I am not liking the idea of sitting and eating in someone else's germs.

      On the next note -- this seems to be one hell of a lot of hash over such a small issue. Either way inside the restaurant (and I use that word lightly) the waste will be contained no matter who thinks containing it is whose job.

      What is a much more important issue to me is the people who think that it's okay to throw the papers, cups, etc out their car windows or on the ground in scenic areas. It's pollution, it's toxic (yes there are LOTS of toxins in those nice little wrappers your food is wrapped in) and it's disgustingly ugly to have to look at when you are trying to enjoy the beauty of nature. Discuss throwing trash out on land and we are discussing a true moral and intelligence issue.
      Sal said...

      Here's a new one for you people. -- I would rather sit a table that the person left a tray before me because it's more likely that the table was actually wiped off.

      It IS their jobs to wipe off tables - if there is nothing on it, they might just not wipe it off either and I am not liking the idea of sitting and eating in someone else's germs.

      Sal,

      You make a very good point about FF workers not knowing which tables to clean off.

      I've sat a a few FF table that were dirty and perhaps this is one of the main reasons.

      And if you have a drink, lots of times people have to actually touch the fold-in door at the trash can.


      It's been quite a trip to say the least.


      I've been accused of...

      - being lazy

      - ignorant ( people that do what I do are ignorant )

      - I'm setting a extremely bad example for my kid and teaching her to disrespect people etc.

      - I'm a elitist

      - I have self esteem problems

      - My family didn't train me properly

      - I'm probably a slob at home

      - someone sensed anger from me

      - I have a bad attitude

      - I lack self respect

      - I'm the type of person that would trash a bathroom

      - I don't respect the employees

      - Someone was thankful my wife sets a better example

      - I lack common courtesy

      - I didn't bring up my tray in elementary school

      - It's something a rude preteen boy might do - not a grown man.


      I relayed these comments to my 13 year old daughter and we had a heck of a laugh.

      She still plans to dump her tray at FF joints and that's all right with me but she doesn't expect me to do the same and she'll survive when I don't.

      All The Best!!


      TL
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

        Sal said...

        Here's a new one for you people. -- I would rather sit a table that the person left a tray before me because it's more likely that the table was actually wiped off.

        It IS their jobs to wipe off tables - if there is nothing on it, they might just not wipe it off either and I am not liking the idea of sitting and eating in someone else's germs.

        Sal,

        You make a very good point about FF workers not knowing which tables to clean off.

        I've sat a a few FF table that were dirty and perhaps this is one of the main reasons.

        And if you have a drink, lots of times people have to actually touch the fold-in door at the trash can.
        Actually, I made this point earlier in this thread. And from a logical standpoint, it makes sense NOT to dump your tray because it makes the worker come to the table, and they will give it a quick wipe down.

        It amazes me how many on this thread insist everyone dumps their trays, yet aren't at all concerned about their tables not being wiped down before they eat at it. Like I said earlier, I'm more concerned with the cleanliness of a table BEFORE I eat than AFTER.

        It reminds me of the saying "out of sight, out of mind" and people are more worried about a leftover frech fry bag than the germs left on the table.

        Why don't fast food joints have to wipe tables after each and every use? Every other type of restaurant does...Or are we now expected to spray and wipe our own tables too?

        BTW, who's going to clean up after this mess of a thread, with all the name calling and judgemental posts based on one small personal decision?
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Actually, I made this point earlier in this thread. And from a logical standpoint, it makes sense NOT to dump your tray because it makes the worker come to the table, and they will give it a quick wipe down.

          It amazes me how many on this thread insist everyone dumps their trays, yet aren't at all concerned about their tables not being wiped down before they eat at it. Like I said earlier, I'm more concerned with the cleanliness of a table BEFORE I eat than AFTER.

          It reminds me of the saying "out of sight, out of mind" and people are more worried about a leftover frech fry bag than the germs left on the table.

          Why don't fast food joints have to wipe tables after each and every use? Every other type of restaurant does...Or are we now expected to spray and wipe our own tables too?

          BTW, who's going to clean up after this mess of a thread, with all the name calling and judgemental posts based on one small personal decision?

          Kurt,

          It's funny - all the years I have been eating at these places, and dumping my tray - I actually never looked at it that way. And that makes total sense.

          I may need to change my habit there...

          And TL - the way you posed your OP, you got exactly what you asked for (that being opinions on your actions...). So really, you shouldn't be surprised, nor should you complain about it. Which is in essence the same thing you have said to OTHERS who start a thread looking for opinions, and them getting ones they didn't like.

          Is that a reason to be called certain names? Of course not. But that's no different than I have seen from you in the past either.

          Not being judgmental. Just making an observation. Things have a way of going around and around. Accept that people will sometimes give you more than you bargained for. Or don't, and stop asking for opinions.

          I give you credit though. I won't typically ask for opinions on this (or any other) forum. Personally, I don't see the need. However I have also been known to "share" my viewpoints

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Thom - I didn't say slip programming - that is not what slip programming is, doesn't even relate to this topic. What I was saying is people are being programmed to expect fewer services - and that is true anywhere you go. I LIKE service when I go out. I think if franchise owners know that people like services, they will provide them. That's all I was saying is not to be programmed into thinking that it's wrong to want services. I still think of that stupid gas station in the middle of nowhere just because they cleaned my windshield. They don't HAVE to do that. We can clean our own -- but how nice is it to have people remember your place just because they went a hair out of their way and acted like they actually value your patronage beyond what they were able to pull from your wallet. I think if people in business all adopted one extra little thing they did to service customers that it would be a nice touch all the way around.

    Wanna be frank about it - I don't go to fast food places to sit and eat. I go to the window to either take the food with me or to eat outside. When I am eating outside I would not dream of leaving papers on a table because they can blow around and become pollution. I just saw ads out here the other day for jobs for people to specifically keep their FF place clean. Maybe that means janitor and maybe it means an increased sense of hospitality. Don't know.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Thom - I didn't say slip programming - that is not what slip programming is, doesn't even relate to this topic. What I was saying is people are being programmed to expect fewer services - and that is true anywhere you go. I LIKE service when I go out. I think if franchise owners know that people like services, they will provide them. That's all I was saying is not to be programmed into thinking that it's wrong to want services. I still think of that stupid gas station in the middle of nowhere just because they cleaned my windshield. They don't HAVE to do that. We can clean our own -- but how nice is it to have people remember your place just because they went a hair out of their way and acted like they actually value your patronage beyond what they were able to pull from your wallet. I think if people in business all adopted one extra little thing they did to service customers that it would be a nice touch all the way around.

      Wanna be frank about it - I don't go to fast food places to sit and eat. I go to the window to either take the food with me or to eat outside. When I am eating outside I would not dream of leaving papers on a table because they can blow around and become pollution. I just saw ads out here the other day for jobs for people to specifically keep their FF place clean. Maybe that means janitor and maybe it means an increased sense of hospitality. Don't know.
      I can agree with most of that.
      Except the services where never offered in FF joints to begin with.
      Even when I was a teenager (and we both know how many centuries ago that was) it was expected of you to clear your table.
      Most businesses I see that are in the service industry like hotels, restaurants, and the like are adding services so they can remain competitive.
      20 years ago when I went to Fl. any motel I stayed at had a TV in the room and that was about it. The last 2 times I went down every motel I stayed at had mini frigs, coffee makers with the fixens, the TV but with cable and some premium channels, and even the seediest had a continental breakfast. Plus the room rates where still reasonable and almost every one I stayed at last year gave me a AARP discount even though I don't belong to AARP.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    That might be true, too, Thom. I don't remember having to clean off our tables because we never ate at those restaurants. We had Halo Burgers which were just drive through -- and so incredible delicious. I miss that one and their olive burgers.

    Ah well. I eat OUT and I throw my trash where it's supposed to go, not on the landscape. Guess that's all I need to worry about, eh?
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      That might be true, too, Thom. I don't remember having to clean off our tables because we never ate at those restaurants. We had Halo Burgers which were just drive through -- and so incredible delicious. I miss that one and their olive burgers.

      Ah well. I eat OUT and I throw my trash where it's supposed to go, not on the landscape. Guess that's all I need to worry about, eh?
      Back when I was around 14 there was a FF place in Troy called Carol's. They where basically a rip off of McD's. They had what they called a toasted cheese sandwich that was just American cheese on a toasted hamburger bun, thing cost about 20 cents if I remember right. Anyways I thought they where the bomb and would order 20 at a rip.
      They weren't all that big in fact the buns where smaller then a McD's hamburger bun.
      My father wouldn't eat in most of those places, though he did take me to A&W and Jacks (in Wynantskill) a lot.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Back when I was around 14 there was a FF place in Troy called Carol's. They where basically a rip off of McD's. They had what they called a toasted cheese sandwich that was just American cheese on a toasted hamburger bun, thing cost about 20 cents if I remember right. Anyways I thought they where the bomb and would order 20 at a rip.
        They weren't all that big in fact the buns where smaller then a McD's hamburger bun.
        My father wouldn't eat in most of those places, though he did take me to A&W and Jacks (in Wynantskill) a lot.
        That's the way McD's used to do their grilled cheese. It was the only thing I ever ate from that restaurant when I was a kid. But I never went inside of one until I was an adult. Mostly because the window line was too long. Then I found out what their food was made of and just quit going. The place just scares me anymore.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          That's the way McD's used to do their grilled cheese. It was the only thing I ever ate from that restaurant when I was a kid. But I never went inside of one until I was an adult. Mostly because the window line was too long. Then I found out what their food was made of and just quit going. The place just scares me anymore.
          That got me thinking, I haven't eaten McD's in a long time now.
          We did stop at Ted's for fish fry's tonight.
          And yes I picked up our trash and put the tray where it belonged.
          Tiny looked at me funny and I told her if I didn't TL would find out and I'd never hear the end of it
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Nothing against you but just answering the question...

    If I witnessed you and your daughter get up and walk out, I'd instantly think, "What pigs!"

    Your daughter was probably humiliated.

    It's something a rude preteen boy might do - not a grown man.

    Your daughter's right
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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    You know... when they do their sweeps of the lobby, they are supposed to wipe down EVERY table not being used, not just the ones that look dirty.

    If they were standing around talking, they will probably get fired eventually.

    If you aren't working 100% of the time at FF places, you are the first to go. "If you have time to lean, you have time to clean." Managers and McD pretty much chant that to you the whole shift.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    "If you have time to lean, you have time to clean."

    Actually that's the mantra of almost every dining establishment.
    Most of them want to be ready for that unannounced health inspector surprise visit.
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