I"m Fed Up And Taking A Stand

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That's it. I'm done with these thieves.

Sale comes in at 11:11

At 11:17 an email comes with the following:


REFUND!

Hello Steven,

I'd like a refund for the pdf's I just bought from you.

Didn't work for me. Sorry.

Enough is enough. If this asshole wants a refund he's going to have to work
for it and go to PayPal to get it.

Enough is enough!
  • Profile picture of the author scubasteve-cr
    Has anybody ever been fed down?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Immediate refund? No way - you HAVE to wait to make certain his initial payment cleared fully...right? That can take a few days....
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    I know exactly how you feel Steven.

    All you can do is say "Screw 'em" and give them their refund and forget it.

    Frank Kern once said that Dan Kennedy told him if you're not getting a 10% refund rate, you're not selling hard enough.

    That sounds like B.S. to me.
    I interpret that to mean you're not being honest in your sales copy.
    Otherwise, why would 10% of your customers want a refund?
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Sorry Steven, but gosh, I gave it a try for 6 whole minutes. I can make breakfast in 6 minutes, you can't expect me to try something longer than that. I ain't got a lifetime to make it work.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author woodyear99
    Some people are just ridiculous. I think he deserves a refund though, can you ethically refuse to refund his money?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by woodyear99 View Post

      Some people are just ridiculous. I think he deserves a refund though, can you ethically refuse to refund his money?
      Yes, because PayPal consumer protection does NOT cover digital goods, so
      by law, I don't have to refund him nor does PayPal, especially under these
      obviously bogus conditions.

      But hey, if he wants to put in a dispute with PayPal and ask for his money
      back, he's more than welcome to. I'm just not going to roll over and make
      it easy for him.
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      • Profile picture of the author swiftimpulse
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Yes, because PayPal consumer protection does NOT cover digital goods, so
        by law, I don't have to refund him nor does PayPal, especially under these
        obviously bogus conditions.

        But hey, if he wants to put in a dispute with PayPal and ask for his money
        back, he's more than welcome to. I'm just not going to roll over and make
        it easy for him.
        I find it annoying when I ask for an email addy for a free thing I'm giving and 3 minutes later they've unsubscribed.

        Each to their own I guess but at least find out if I'm going to send you useless junk before unsubscribing

        In the form of a paid product I'm sure you'd be seeing red.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    In reaction to all the obvious theft of digital products, I'm thinking that 30 day guarantee should mean you have to wait 30 days to get one -- and if you have used the material ANYWHERE - no shakes. When you can go to the main forum every and any day of the week and see people bitching about what the big deal is about copyright, it's time for some justice for hard workers.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author MerlynSanchez
    We all know this happens. In fact, this is one of several "bogus refund" threads I've seen in the past few months.

    All businesses lose products to theft. That's why loss prevention is such a big business.

    Don't refund this guy and draft a refund policy that you can live with.

    It's not brain surgery.
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    • Profile picture of the author High Horsepower
      I think everyone here is missing the Point. You're in business to make MONEY.

      The Longer your Guarantee, the more Liberal it is, the more sales you'll make.

      Way more sales.

      Make it Easy for the customer to buy, put all the risk on you.

      Most people are honest, the serial refunders aren't going to stop. I work with small business owners and they are always trying to Fight me on Guarantees. Every single time we lengthen the time frame, make the rules more liberal, offer Double or Triple Guarantees their sales go UP.

      I took one business that had a 30 day guarantee with more conservative terms, to a 1 year guarantee and loosened the terms. Their sales went up dramatically and refunds dropped significantly.

      I'll never understand why IMers get so upset about a product they created ONCE, then get paid over and over. Who cares if someone blatantly says "I bought your product with the intention of ripping you off, I want a Refund." It's a very small percentage who think like that.

      By placing Restrictions you will Significantly reduce your sales. But you will get less refunds.

      Who Wins? :rolleyes:
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      Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy. Sir Winston Churchill, Speech, 1941, Harrow School

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  • Profile picture of the author woodyear99
    Indeed the effort you put out in trying to avoid these serial refunders could be better used in delivering better products/marketing more.

    On top of that if someone really wants a refund they will get it, even if they have to go through hoops with paypal. Sometimes you just need to cut your losses imo.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Steve I've got the other extreme for you.
      I had someone ask for a refund a year after she bought my e-book.
      Her reason?
      She said her doctor told her she couldn't read it at that time:confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author High Horsepower
        [DELETED]
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        • Profile picture of the author pickthat apple
          My view is that a product should be refunded if it is faulty or, in case of a digital product, if it doesn't deliver what it promises by a long shot.

          A product which is refunded
          has been enjoyed by the consumer for a short time.

          Anything can happen to the product whilst it is not in our control.
          It can be copied, presented as your own when it is not etc.
          But at the end of the day it will come back and we have no money in our pocket and we are left with the merchandise.

          You can say that viewing products and returning them increases the expectance of the customers, which leads to improving the product.
          In that case I would want to see at least some feedback from the customer (for example a short questionnaire).

          In a few words I would not want the consumer to take advantage of my product for nothing in return.

          The view that it will be a raise in popularity for the retailer/seller and it will be good for sales in the long run, would apply if the market was much more contained than it is at present and the refund system was not abused.
          I don't believe for a moment the it can be good for sales.

          It certainly cannot be good for the production systems if the goods are floating all the time from one hand to the other and one doesn't know what the real figures are.

          I am sure plenty of you will contraddict me. Please go ahead because I would really like to know some other opinions.
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