Should Marijuana Be Legalized?

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Should Marijuana Be Legalized?

Yes or no and why.. remember to keep politics and religion out of the discussion per the forum rules.
#marijuana legalized
  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
    Of course.
    But anybody that knows me here knew I'd say that
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  • Profile picture of the author Michiko Karabin
    Absolutely no. If you legalize it, there will be so much problem. Even we cannot handle it when it is illegal, don't want to think after being legal.
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    • Profile picture of the author jasonthewebmaster
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      Originally Posted by Michiko Karabin View Post

      Absolutely no. If you legalize it, there will be so much problem. Even we cannot handle it when it is illegal, don't want to think after being legal.
      What problems do you refer to?

      I have never heard of anyone getting in car wrecks or dying because of Marijuana.

      I have never heard of anyone robbing or killing someone to "get their fix"

      In fact, Marijuana is not even addictive.

      The only problem I see is that it's illegal...

      Get rid of that law and there will be no problems then.. just peace, love, and smoke
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by jasonthewebmaster View Post

        What problems do you refer to?

        He must be worried about increasing the power of the Doritos and Ho Ho's cartels.
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        • Profile picture of the author ShawnaMarie
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          He must be worried about increasing the power of the Doritos and Ho Ho's cartels.
          Hahahah that was good.......Ya I don't see how it would be harmful, if anything less people would be going to jail just for having it. I know some states are different than others, and what not. I don't think it's a big deal.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
        Originally Posted by jasonthewebmaster View Post

        What problems do you refer to?

        I have never heard of anyone getting in car wrecks or dying because of Marijuana.

        I have never heard of anyone robbing or killing someone to "get their fix"

        In fact, Marijuana is not even addictive.

        The only problem I see is that it's illegal...

        Get rid of that law and there will be no problems then.. just peace, love, and smoke
        Amsterdam has legalized marijuana AND prostitution and their crime is way lower than that per capita here in the states. Marijuana isn't a gateway to other drugs and crime. If anything, that's alcohol but that's already legal. And no, I'm not saying in any way for alcohol to become illegal or I'd have to *ahem *ahem (hit the black market) *ahem . . . follow the law.
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      • Profile picture of the author QuickSurf
        Originally Posted by jasonthewebmaster View Post

        What problems do you refer to?

        I have never heard of anyone getting in car wrecks or dying because of Marijuana.

        I have never heard of anyone robbing or killing someone to "get their fix"

        In fact, Marijuana is not even addictive.

        The only problem I see is that it's illegal...

        Get rid of that law and there will be no problems then.. just peace, love, and smoke
        Plus "marijuana" being a gateway drug is a bunch of crap and spun by the gov that way. People who do other harder drugs would do them anyway with/without marijuana. I've smoked, and never had any inkling to try any other drugs and same thing for friends. It can be a nice stress reliever, in fact I've met some high power people and CEO's down here from one of my businesses and you'd be surprised at how many smoked and usually just to relax and unwind, not get "stoner" baked.

        The worst thing some pot head will do, is what, steal a bag of cheetos from a store?? lol. Look at what it's done for people suffering from diseases like cancer. Meanwhile look at alcohol, legal and waaaaaaaay more dangerous and deadly then pot will ever be.

        Decriminalize it, I mean it's ridiculous that you have people in jail for selling pot, that are locked up longer then rapist, murders etc, especially with the dumb strike laws that shouldn't be applied for minor cases and do nothing but overcrowd the jails vs stuffing them with people that belong there long term. I wouldn't want to see Gov getting their hands on it and controlling that market though, as all they'll do is water it down and add all their crap in like cigs.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Do you realize how many people are on Aderal, which is referred to as "poor mans" cocaine?

          I had a friend who got very badly addicted to it. The Dr. had prescribed, then they went nuts on it and started going to drug dealers to go get prescriptions for it. It was a mess getting them off this legally prescribable drug.

          They still fall sometimes too and relapse into it, and they call me for counsel and help... and I have to drag them back to reality again.

          A doctor got them hooked on it. They prescribe this stuff even to CHILDREN... My stepson is on a form of it ... I totally do not agree with it, I think the dysfunction is less harmful than spacing your kids out on drugs personally.
          John you may be interested in this video.
          Originally Posted by QuickSurf View Post

          Plus "marijuana" being a gateway drug is a bunch of crap and spun by the gov that way. People who do other harder drugs would do them anyway with/without marijuana. I've smoked, and never had any inkling to try any other drugs and same thing for friends. It can be a nice stress reliever, in fact I've met some high power people and CEO's down here from one of my businesses and you'd be surprised at how many smoked and usually just to relax and unwind, not get "stoner" baked.

          The worst thing some pot head will do, is what, steal a bag of cheetos from a store?? lol. Look at what it's done for people suffering from diseases like cancer. Meanwhile look at alcohol, legal and waaaaaaaay more dangerous and deadly then pot will ever be.

          Decriminalize it, I mean it's ridiculous that you have people in jail for selling pot, that are locked up longer then rapist, murders etc, especially with the dumb strike laws that shouldn't be applied for minor cases and do nothing but overcrowd the jails vs stuffing them with people that belong there long term. I wouldn't want to see Gov getting their hands on it and controlling that market though, as all they'll do is water it down and add all their crap in like cigs.
          You know they compile that information the same way they compile the info on it being addictive.
          When you are arrested for using any drug, the cops will ask you if you ever smoked pot. You say yes, they now say it's a gateway drug and have the 'numbers' to prove it.
          Now if you're arrested for pot you can usually cop a plea to a lesser charge with no jail time if you say you are addicted and will go for treatment. Now they can say it's addictive and have the 'numbers' to prove it.
          If it wasn't such a serious issue, the govts. 'claims' about cannabis would be laughable.
          As it is they are a sad joke and have all been proved time and time again to be mostly lies.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            John you may be interested in this video.
            ‪The Mission - Gwen Olsen - the Rx Reformer‬‏ - YouTube

            You know they compile that information the same way they compile the info on it being addictive.
            When you are arrested for using any drug, the cops will ask you if you ever smoked pot. You say yes, they now say it's a gateway drug and have the 'numbers' to prove it.
            Now if you're arrested for pot you can usually cop a plea to a lesser charge with no jail time if you say you are addicted and will go for treatment. Now they can say it's addictive and have the 'numbers' to prove it.
            If it wasn't such a serious issue, the govts. 'claims' about cannabis would be laughable.
            As it is they are a sad joke and have all been proved time and time again to be mostly lies.
            I did drugs all through high school but only smoked pot once. Didn't like it. Didn't smoke it til way after I'd quit other drugs and needed something to mellow me out during college.

            As far as gateway? Milk. Almost 100% of all pot smokers started on milk. Better start hiding those damned cows.
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      • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
        Originally Posted by jasonthewebmaster View Post

        What problems do you refer to?

        I have never heard of anyone getting in car wrecks or dying because of Marijuana.

        I have never heard of anyone robbing or killing someone to "get their fix"

        In fact, Marijuana is not even addictive.

        The only problem I see is that it's illegal...

        Get rid of that law and there will be no problems then.. just peace, love, and smoke
        I just wanted to address a couple things you mentioned here Jason.
        If you drive under the influence of marijuana your reflexes are still slowed-crashes can and do happen as a result.

        Marijuana like anything if done in repetition does indeed cause an addiction.I smoked it so much that if I did not have it I would be physically ill.-That is an addiction. Not to mention psychologically it plays an effect too.

        -WD
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    • Profile picture of the author askloz
      Marijuana has so many healing properties, so why say no?

      People are not violent on Marijuana, I take it from time to time for my Spinal Bifida.
      People with cancer, leukemia, depression, anxiety, etc have found it's helped them immensely.

      If anything, more ppl stay at home, they buy more food (munchies gallor), not only that, its a multi-billion dollar industry and will help the economy in a big way.

      Its not like its a hard drug like crack, etc, it was created naturally.

      Originally Posted by Michiko Karabin View Post

      Absolutely no. If you legalize it, there will be so much problem. Even we cannot handle it when it is illegal, don't want to think after being legal.
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  • All drugs should be legalized and taxed
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    While it is illegal it is in the hands of and being profited on by murderers, gun smugglers, thieves and creeps.

    If it is legal we will have much more control AND PUT THE GANGSTERS OUT OF BUSINESS AT LEAST FOR THIS. (Although it is true in some cases corporations can also be gangsters) -- at least they are held accountable (more or less)...

    As long as liquor and cigarettes are legal then so should pot be - specifically because it is 100% times safer for your body.

    Just as we try to prevent children from using liquor and cigarettes we can do the same for pot.

    With that said I am not really for all out legalization - I like the idea of prescriptions. AND AGAIN POT IS 100% SAFER THAN MANY PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.

    Never heard of it causing strokes, heart attacks, blood clots, or death...
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    Does society need another legal drug?
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by oncewerewarriors View Post

      Does society need another legal drug?
      Apparently so, seeing how the 70+ years it's been illegal hasn't done nothing to stop it's use.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by oncewerewarriors View Post

      Does society need another legal drug?

      Does society need another thing to control the freedom of choice for intelligent and responsible individuals?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by oncewerewarriors View Post

      Does society need another legal drug?
      Its a hell of alot safer than the heart attack inducing drugs that are CURRENTLY legal, and could probably make the need for half of them obsolete.

      Just my two cents.

      Also safer than the "Pot Alternatives" sold on the internet legally, and in smoke shops that put kids in coma's.

      We recently had an article about that released in our hometown.
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  • Profile picture of the author christopher jon
    Yes.

    If for no other reasons, it's far less damaging than many other legal substances and it's a huge wasteful drain on our law enforcement resources.

    I mean seriously, it makes you happy and gives you the munchies. That's it. Anybody who claims differently has watched refer madness one too many times and never gotten high themselves.

    BTW, I haven't smoked pot in over ten years. The Army kinda doesn't like it and I've had no desire to use it since.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by christopher jon View Post

      Yes.

      If for no other reasons, it's far less damaging than many other legal substances and it's a huge wasteful drain on our law enforcement resources.

      I mean seriously, it makes you happy and gives you the munchies. That's it. Anybody who claims differently has watched refer madness one too many times and never gotten high themselves.

      BTW, I haven't smoked pot in over ten years. The Army kinda doesn't like it and I've had no desire to use it since.
      I disagree with "that's it". In my testing, it can also cause one to turn down the sound on the TV and turn on the stereo, so you watch TV and listen to music at the same time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Maybe we should take a poll about how people think I would answer the question.



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  • Profile picture of the author christopher jon
    I disagree with "that's it". In my testing, it can also cause one to turn down the sound on the TV and turn on the stereo, so you watch TV and listen to music at the same time.
    This wouldn't happen to have anything to do with watching the wizard of oz while playing the dark side of the moon would it?
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  • Profile picture of the author christopher jon
    Maybe we should take a poll about how people think I would answer the question.
    I have a good hunch you'll vote 'no'
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  • Profile picture of the author christopher jon
    Now Ho Ho's are something that should be illegal. Those things are cute pink blobs of crack.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by christopher jon View Post

      Now Ho Ho's are something that should be illegal. Those things are cute pink blobs of crack.
      I thought those were Sno-Balls.

      (I mean, not that I would know about such things)

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  • Profile picture of the author phowell23
    Legalize it and tax it highly (no pun intended). Throw 50% towards investing back into USA education (better public schools, better pay for teachers, more technology for students) and the other 50% towards paying down the debt.
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  • Profile picture of the author christopher jon
    I thought those were Sno-Balls.
    I think your right. Then what are Ho Ho's? The round chocolate things? As you might have guessed, Hostess isn't my niche.

    Google to the rescue.



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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    It's a conspiracy, it's all about the water!

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  • Profile picture of the author Brenden Clerget

    This is literally the T shirt I'm wearing right now, got it from Spencer's gifts.

    Booom.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    If we legalized we save billions a year in law enforcement -- People would not be in jail and being abused by the corporate jail system who uses pot to gain slave labor. Cartels would go broke.

    Corporations that depend on us not being able to grow hemp would disappear and people would start working with hemp to make eco-friendly products.

    Hemp seeds are one of the world's most nutritious foods and we'd be free to eat them. More people would also smoke or eat pot instead of drinking and creating havoc on their bodies and society.

    You bet it should be legal. It was a sneaking, conniving little bit of corruption that made it illegal in the first place -- money money - and to hell with freedom and people.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If we legalized we save billions a year in law enforcement -- People would not be in jail and being abused by the corporate jail system who uses pot to gain slave labor. Cartels would go broke.

      Corporations that depend on us not being able to grow hemp would disappear and people would start working with hemp to make eco-friendly products.

      Hemp seeds are one of the world's most nutritious foods and we'd be free to eat them. More people would also smoke or eat pot instead of drinking and creating havoc on their bodies and society.

      You bet it should be legal. It was a sneaking, conniving little bit of corruption that made it illegal in the first place -- money money - and to hell with freedom and people.

      Sal,

      I'm really tired of you talking sense around here...

      You go girl.
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  • Profile picture of the author DPM70
    Don't bring it into my workplace.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by DPM70 View Post

      Don't bring it into my workplace.

      Let me tell you a little story about that...and I agree with you on the workplace.

      One time (when I ran my own construction biz..yea mine)
      I hired this long haired kid, smoker looking , but something about his answers and sharpness made me hire him.

      Now I had heard that he was a regular smoker.
      I had a long talk with him about how dangerous it was to smoke at this (in particular line of work) I didn't care what he did at off hours but to not do it at work or bring it around.

      Turned out he had a natural mech and construction ability.

      He was one of the best workers I ever had. He ended up my #2

      I would rather have had ten of him, than one of the 'straight laced' drinkers I had to fire. Because of hangovers that either kept them from work when I needed them...or unable to do a proper job if they were there.

      It's not always the case obviously. I understand that.

      'There is a time and a place'

      As long as 'smokers' realize this...I have no problem with it at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I agree not in the workplace..........but if I had to choose, I'd choose working with someone that just smoked a fattie than someone taking pschotrophic pharmaceutical drugs.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Do you realize how many people are on Aderal, which is referred to as "poor mans" cocaine?

    I had a friend who got very badly addicted to it. The Dr. had prescribed, then they went nuts on it and started going to drug dealers to go get prescriptions for it. It was a mess getting them off this legally prescribable drug.

    They still fall sometimes too and relapse into it, and they call me for counsel and help... and I have to drag them back to reality again.

    A doctor got them hooked on it. They prescribe this stuff even to CHILDREN... My stepson is on a form of it ... I totally do not agree with it, I think the dysfunction is less harmful than spacing your kids out on drugs personally.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I don't know about it being legalized, but I do think it should be decriminalized.

    If it were legal and were taxed, we could pay down the federal deficit much, much faster.
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  • Profile picture of the author franzmark2011
    Of course marijuana is still a dangerous drug. Are you going to legalize it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Originally Posted by franzmark2011 View Post

      Of course marijuana is still a dangerous drug. Are you going to legalize it?
      What is dangerous is people who make ignorant statements that are not based in reality. :rolleyes:

      What makes you say it is dangerous??? Please give me one factual source I can refer to.

      - then I will give you several on all the people who have been maimed or died from legal prescription drugs, alcohol and cigarettes.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ Thom,

    My daughter has memorized things I have drilled into her through the years...

    One of them is this... I ask her "What is the intent of the physician"?

    She rolls her eyes and says "To find something wrong...".

    Right Why?

    "Because if they cant make a diagnosis then there is no reason for their existence".

    Right.

    Not saying I hate doctors... of course.
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    I've never understood how something that grows in the GROUND could possibly be illegal. It's a waste of resources, time and money for the states and the feds to continue to "keep it off the streets!"

    What I also find odd is the fact that phama companies are pumping only God knows what into millions of people around the world, causing all kinds of side effects, but this one little plant is so bad that it needs to be outlawed? How does THAT make any sense.

    And this "gateway drug" crap is propaganda if there ever was any. Oh the internet... always going to be a pain in the ass for our federal government.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      What's almost funny is the federal govt. was actually the first to start a medical marijuana program. They started it on May 10 1976 if I remember right. When Bush Sr. was pres. he quietly stopped the program from taking applications because to many people who could show proof they needed it where applying . Here's one article about the program.
      Irvin Rosenfeld and the Compassionate IND — Medical Marijuana Proof and Government Lies « Drug WarRant

      Things that make you go

      My bad, it was on May 10, 1978
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by BloggingPro View Post

      I've never understood how something that grows in the GROUND could possibly be illegal. It's a waste of resources, time and money for the states and the feds to continue to "keep it off the streets!"

      What I also find odd is the fact that phama companies are pumping only God knows what into millions of people around the world, causing all kinds of side effects, but this one little plant is so bad that it needs to be outlawed? How does THAT make any sense.

      And this "gateway drug" crap is propaganda if there ever was any. Oh the internet... always going to be a pain in the ass for our federal government.

      you are so right. My 19 year-old son told me that parents should be more concerned with how easily kids get their hands on Oxycontin which is basically heroin in pill form. Marijuana is the least of everyone's problems and the age long prohibition of it has everything to do with money and power. Now, because America is almost bankrupt, they are thinking, ok, let's make some money with this drug, that's never going away. Please! The hypocrisy is sickening!

      How many people are dead from over-doses of prescription drugs: MJ, Anna Nicole-Smith, Heath Ledger, Brittany Murphy, to name a few?

      How many people do you know are dead from an over-dose of marijuana?

      It's freaking ridiculous.

      I say we legalize all drugs, just like in Portugal. Drug addicts should be treated the same way as alcoholics. They are not criminals, they have an addiction and should be given treatment. It is way cheaper to treat them then to send them to jail. Think about that.

      And if all drugs were legalized, I think that would put an end to the drug cartels and the whole nasty criminal element to it all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    I would decriminalize it, let people grow their own and do as they please in their own homes. I would not want to see sales and distribution in the hands of corporations.
    Sounds good, but a couple of problems. One, not everyone has a green thumb. There's other problems like mites and mold that can cause health problems if people don't know what they are doing. Not to mention the lighting needed to grow indoors is a fire hazard.

    Another problem with this strategy is that it's much more expensive to grow indoors than out, where sunlight is free and MJ can be grown and harvested on a much larger scale. Think about how much tomatoes would cost if they all were grown in people's closets.

    Which brings us to, if people can only grown their own, there are no sales, which means no taxes, so there's no revenue to be created by legalization.

    Plus, indoor growing keeps the price high enough for an underground market to exist, which is a major problem with the Mexican drug cartels. By making MJ legal and letting farmers grow it, the price decreases enough that it can be taxed heavily and STILL be far less expensive than if it is only grown indoors on a small scale.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I agree with Kurt. If you only let people have it that can grow it, you are discriminating against a lot of people who don't have enough space or money for the set-up needed to grow it. Growing it on farms results in commerce. It also allows for use of all the plant parts - the seeds for food or replant. Sure, individuals can produce enough seeds for replant, but don't forget the valuable, nutritious food source these seeds represent. And what of fibers that can be made from the stalks of these plants? It's cheaper to have them come from one source than to start a massive recycling program for individual growers.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      By making MJ legal and letting farmers grow it, the price decreases enough that it can be taxed heavily and STILL be far less expensive than if it is only grown indoors on a small scale.
      Kurt I think there would still be a market for the more expensive stuff.
      I look at it like the beer industry.
      You have the big breweries like Bush, Miller, Coors, etc. that produce the cheap run of the mill beers. The farmers growing would be similar to them.
      Then you have the smaller micro-breweries that produce a better quality and more expensive beer. The smaller indoor and outdoor growers would be them.
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Kurt I think there would still be a market for the more expensive stuff.
        I look at it like the beer industry.
        You have the big breweries like Bush, Miller, Coors, etc. that produce the cheap run of the mill beers. The farmers growing would be similar to them.
        Then you have the smaller micro-breweries that produce a better quality and more expensive beer. The smaller indoor and outdoor growers would be them.
        Right now in California the Pot Dispensaries are like Designer BOUTIQUES!

        They have lists a mile long with every grade, every color, with descriptions - you want to get up, get down, get out, get straight -

        probably even hybrids that do all of the above - and very creative names - like super purple haze divine - (made up but you get the picture).

        It's all clean, packaged, and labeled - it's lovely!


        (the seeds for home growers would be/are likely to have the same specifications) - most of the really super "killer" weed has been grown hydroponically for a while now (indoors)...

        - so if you don't have a yard then a spare room or closet would do very well.

        living room, dining room, bedroom, home office, pot nursery


        p.s. cooking with pot is really making a big comeback these daze as well - and there is a special grade for that -
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

          Right now in California the Pot Dispensaries are like Designer BOUTIQUES!

          They have lists a mile long with every grade, every color, with descriptions - you want to get up, get down, get out, get straight -

          probably even hybrids that do all of the above - and very creative names - like super purple haze divine - (made up but you get the picture).

          It's all clean, packaged, and labeled - it's lovely!


          (the seeds for home growers would be/are likely to have the same specifications - most of the really super "killer" weed has been grown hydroponically for a while now (indoors)...

          - so if you don't have a yard then a spare room or closet would do very well.
          Did you know the town of Boulder CO has as many legal dispensaries as the entire state of CA? And Denver has more MJ dispensaries than Starbucks.

          BTW, part of the recent drive to make MJ legal in CA was founded on how cheap MJ would be if it were legalized and could be grown outdoors like other crops. There's really no reason mid-grade MJ should cost more to grow and harvest than wheat is.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Kurt I think there would still be a market for the more expensive stuff.
        I look at it like the beer industry.
        You have the big breweries like Bush, Miller, Coors, etc. that produce the cheap run of the mill beers. The farmers growing would be similar to them.
        Then you have the smaller micro-breweries that produce a better quality and more expensive beer. The smaller indoor and outdoor growers would be them.
        The high quality stuff will be cheaper too if it can be grown outdoors in full natural sunlight and in larger quantities than growing indoors allows.

        By far the number one expense for growing indoors is electricity, for both lighting and cooling.

        Using the beer analogy, IMO indoor growing would be closer to the home brewer hobbyist than a micro brewery.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          The high quality stuff will be cheaper too if it can be grown outdoors in full natural sunlight and in larger quantities than growing indoors allows.

          By far the number one expense for growing indoors is electricity, for both lighting and cooling.

          Using the beer analogy, IMO indoor growing would be closer to the home brewer hobbyist than a micro brewery.
          Kurt there is a much bigger expense in growing high quality cannabis then in growing mid-grade. The majority of people smoking seem to prefer organically grown so as not to have to deal with any chemicals in or on their pot. Organic farming on even a small scale requires more work and closer monitoring then farming with chemical fertilizers and sprays. The work and time involved will have to be justified in the pricing.
          Now someone with a spare bedroom could produce 5+# a month easily.
          There would still be a lot of work and time in it and there would still be $ expenses.
          Even if you where getting just $1,000 a # that's $60,000 a year gross.
          Now I seriously doubt you will ever see high quality cannabis going for 1,000 a lb. but you get my point. Those aren't the kind of numbers you see from someone brewing beer at home.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            Kurt there is a much bigger expense in growing high quality cannabis then in growing mid-grade. The majority of people smoking seem to prefer organically grown so as not to have to deal with any chemicals in or on their pot. Organic farming on even a small scale requires more work and closer monitoring then farming with chemical fertilizers and sprays. The work and time involved will have to be justified in the pricing.
            Now someone with a spare bedroom could produce 5+# a month easily.
            There would still be a lot of work and time in it and there would still be $ expenses.
            Even if you where getting just $1,000 a # that's $60,000 a year gross.
            Now I seriously doubt you will ever see high quality cannabis going for 1,000 a lb. but you get my point. Those aren't the kind of numbers you see from someone brewing beer at home.
            Thom...You're missing the point. Whatever the cost is of growing high grade, it will become less expensive outdoors and grown in higher quantities.

            Sure, it may be 10x more expensive (giving you the benefit of the doubt) to produce high grade MJ than mid grade. But in a free market, there's no way you will get $1000 per lb for any grade.

            How much more expensive are "organic" tomatoes than "regular", since tomatoes and MJ use basically the same nutes? And why should MJ, if farmed the same way as tomatoes, cost more than, say, 100x what organic tomatoes cost? At 100x tomatoes, that would make organic MJ about $200-250 per lb.

            Now, if every tomato was grown in folks' closets across the country, I could see your point. But they're not.

            Sorry, but there's no way you'll convince me that people growing any plant in their bedrooms and closets, paying for lighting and electricity and limited by space, will do so as efficiently as outdoor farmers will.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Thom...You're missing the point. Whatever the cost is of growing high grade, it will become less expensive outdoors and grown in higher quantities.

              Sure, it may be 10x more expensive (giving you the benefit of the doubt) to produce high grade MJ than mid grade. But in a free market, there's no way you will get $1000 per lb for any grade.

              How much more expensive are "organic" tomatoes than "regular", since tomatoes and MJ use basically the same nutes? And why should MJ, if farmed the same way as tomatoes, cost more than, say, 100x what organic tomatoes cost? At 100x tomatoes, that would make organic MJ about $200-250 per lb.

              Now, if every tomato was grown in folks' closets across the country, I could see your point. But they're not.

              Sorry, but there's no way you'll convince me that people growing any plant in their bedrooms and closets, paying for lighting and electricity and limited by space, will do so as efficiently as outdoor farmers will.
              No kurt you're missing my point.
              Even if you start tomatoes from seed you will always get (everything else being equal) plants that produce tomatoes. Now every cannabis seed you plant has a 50/50 chance of being either a male (worthless) or a female. So right from the start you can't compare the two. If you plant 1,000 cannabis seeds chances are good that 500 will be male so you have to keep a careful eye on your crop to weed out the males as soon as they show themselves or risk ending up with seeded weed that won't bring in nearly as much in yield and market value.
              Now your other option is using GMO seeds or treated seeds that only produce female plants, do you really want to go there?
              None of that even takes into consideration the stability of the seed stock.
              It takes a minimum of 9 back crosses to produce a stable strain of cannabis. At best you can do 3 back crosses a year, so your looking at a min. of 3 years to produce a stable strain. Most breeders don't put that much work into it though so chances of getting variations in a single seeding is very high.
              The only cannabis you will ever see at 250 a lb. will be the good old dirt weed we all know and hate.
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              • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
                I've been sayin this for years...now definitive proof.
                Brownies are the cause of 'Black Holes'
                I knew it...all I had to do was use a search engine all this time...silly me huh.




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                • Profile picture of the author KimW
                  Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

                  I've been sayin this for years...now definitive proof.
                  Brownies are the cause of 'Black Holes'
                  I knew it...all I had to do was use a search engine all this time...silly me huh.




                  How can that be Jim??
                  If they are good Brownies they grow up to be Girl Scouts!
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                • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                  That's because you only have half of the story RoadDog. When you see the full picture things are much different.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
                    Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                    That's because you only have half of the story RoadDog. When you see the full picture things are much different.

                    I've lived the whole picture there Jon. You'll have to trust me on that one...

                    Don't need 'studies' to tell me what's up.

                    Of course you are totally entitled to your opinion and I can respect that.

                    We all have our perspectives and believe me, mine is 'hard earned'.

                    Our forefathers were not omnipotent...they had many beliefs and laws that are flat out archaic, and flat out wrong.

                    Just ask the Black and Indian and so called minorities in this country.
                    (Yea I know your from over the pond)

                    Those laws were wrong and so is this one...it needs to be changed before it ruins more lives over what is basically the most benign 'drug' I have ever seen.

                    I went thru the pcp epidemic in the Barrios of LA in the 70's and got out of the military just in time for the crack epidemic of the 80's.

                    If you think the law had anything to do with the massive slow down in those things, you would be wrong.
                    They killed themselves.
                    People finally realized how bad they made a mess out of themselves and their lives with that crap.

                    Except for a few diehard morons who set themselves apart by continuing on with that crap, the epidemics slowed down.

                    It slowed because the truth will out.

                    No law or study is going to do that.


                    I have yet to ever see that with MJ.

                    By the way I can take it or leave it, I use it as a sleep aid here and there.

                    The law has caused more problems than the plant ever has.


                    Take that to the bank.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                      Hi Roaddog

                      Sometimes marijuana/weed/etc + (in certain individuals) = Mental illness. And that's a fact.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
                        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                        Hi Roaddog

                        Sometimes marijuana/weed/etc + (in certain individuals) = Mental illness. And that's a fact.
                        'sometimes'

                        'certain individuals'

                        So to be fair if this is true, then because prescription drugs can cause strokes, heart attacks, blood clots and death for 'certain' people 'sometimes' then we should outlaw them for the majority who don't have a problem.

                        Right?

                        ============================

                        (2000-2009 - death and serious patient outcomes from FDA approved drugs) "These data describe the outcome of the patient as defined in U.S. reporting regulations (21 CFR 310.305, 314.80, 314.98, 600.80) and Forms FDA 3500 and 3500A (the MedWatch forms). Serious means that one or more of the following outcomes were documented in the report: death, hospitalization, life-threatening, disability, congenital anomaly and/or other serious outcome. Documenting one or more of these outcomes in a report does not necessarily mean that the suspect product(s) named in the report was the cause of these outcomes."

                        Editor's Note: These data show "deaths" totaling 370,056 and "serious outcomes" equaling 2,345,006 occurred during the ten years from 2000 to 2009 as tabulated from the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System for prescription drugs. Comparing the first five years (2000-2004) with the second five years (2005-2009) finds that the number of deaths grew by +61.1% for the second time frame as compared to first. For the same comparative spans, serious patient leaped by almost three quarters (+74.0%).

                        AERS1 Patient Outcomes by Year
                        Year Death Serious
                        2000 19,445 153,818
                        2001 23,988 166,384
                        2002 28,181 159,000
                        2003 35,173 177,008
                        2004 34,928 199,510
                        2005 40,238 257,604
                        2006 37,465 265,130
                        2007 36,834 273,276
                        2008 49,958 319,741
                        2009 63,846 373,535

                        Total 2000-2004 141,715 855,720
                        Total 2005-2009 228,341 1,489,286

                        % Chg +61.1% +74.0%

                        http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30


                        ============================

                        No accident
                        Poisonings, from prescription drugs and other substances, are classified in medical records as injurious or accidental deaths. But regardless of whether the incidents are listed as unintentional or intentional, they are rarely true mistakes, noted Leonard Paulozzi, a medical epidemiologist with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in congressional testimony in 2007. "Most unintentional drug poisoning deaths are not 'accidents' caused by toddlers or the elderly taking too much medication," he noted. "These deaths are largely due to the misuse and abuse of prescription drugs."

                        Accidents overall were the fifth most common cause of death in the U.S. as of 2005 (accounting for 117,809 deaths—4.8 percent—that year), according to the National Vital Statistics Report [pdf]. Of injury deaths, poisoning is the second most common cause of death in the U.S., having doubled between 1985 and 2004, according to a 2007 Department of Health and Human Services analysis [pdf]. Among people 35 to 54 years old, poisoning is the most common accidental death—even more so than auto-related deaths.


                        Source: Prescription Drug Deaths Increase Dramatically: Scientific American
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                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                        Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                        Hi Roaddog

                        Sometimes marijuana/weed/etc + (in certain individuals) = Mental illness. And that's a fact.
                        Jonathan you really should watch that video I posted earlier in this thread to see where the real problems are.
                        Cannabis does't cause mental illness and in fact more studies are coming out showing that cannabis can prevent many forms of mental illness. In fact it has recently been discovered that smoking cannabis can prevent Alzheimer.
                        "There were no significant differences in cognitive decline between heavy users, light users, and nonusers of cannabis."
                        Cannabis Use and Cognitive Decline in Persons Under 65 Years of Age

                        You may be interested in this also.
                        Resolution on Medical Marijuana - American Public Health Associa
                        That line about cannabis causing mental illness came from the movie Reefer Madness and has been dispelled and proven a lie.
                        Keep in mind cannabis has been used and smoked for a couple thousand years. If it was a fact that it caused mental illness, it seems there would be plenty of proof to back up the claim, which is simply not the case.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                No kurt you're missing my point.
                Even if you start tomatoes from seed you will always get (everything else being equal) plants that produce tomatoes. Now every cannabis seed you plant has a 50/50 chance of being either a male (worthless) or a female. So right from the start you can't compare the two. If you plant 1,000 cannabis seeds chances are good that 500 will be male so you have to keep a careful eye on your crop to weed out the males as soon as they show themselves or risk ending up with seeded weed that won't bring in nearly as much in yield and market value.
                Now your other option is using GMO seeds or treated seeds that only produce female plants, do you really want to go there?
                None of that even takes into consideration the stability of the seed stock.
                It takes a minimum of 9 back crosses to produce a stable strain of cannabis. At best you can do 3 back crosses a year, so your looking at a min. of 3 years to produce a stable strain. Most breeders don't put that much work into it though so chances of getting variations in a single seeding is very high.
                The only cannabis you will ever see at 250 a lb. will be the good old dirt weed we all know and hate.
                Most of the plants grown in the legal dispensaries here are from "sexed" clones, so there are more options than you posted. As a matter of fact, many of the dispensaries sell clones. I'm sure a similar model could be used on a larger scale, while still keeping the integrity of seed evolution.

                And you seemed to have missed the point that I gave you 100x the cost of growing tomatoes, which would easily factor in any sexing that needs to be done.

                BTW, here's links to a study as to what would happen to California's MJ prices if it where to be legal. It basically says MJ prices would be 1/10 of what they are now, with OZs costing about $38.
                price of marijana will decrease if pot is legal - Google Search
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                • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Most of the plants grown in the legal dispensaries here are from "sexed" clones, so there are more options than you posted. As a matter of fact, many of the dispensaries sell clones. I'm sure a similar model could be used on a larger scale, while still keeping the integrity of seed evolution.

                  And you seemed to have missed the point that I gave you 100x the cost of growing tomatoes, which would easily factor in any sexing that needs to be done.

                  BTW, here's links to a study as to what would happen to California's MJ prices if it where to be legal. It basically says MJ prices would be 1/10 of what they are now, with OZs costing about $38.
                  price of marijana will decrease if pot is legal - Google Search
                  $38? Ok. So if the government continued selling it for $400 or so that would generate huge income. Then they could sell permits for the folks who wanted to grow it themselves.
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                  Most of the plants grown in the legal dispensaries here are from "sexed" clones, so there are more options than you posted. As a matter of fact, many of the dispensaries sell clones. I'm sure a similar model could be used on a larger scale, while still keeping the integrity of seed evolution.

                  And you seemed to have missed the point that I gave you 100x the cost of growing tomatoes, which would easily factor in any sexing that needs to be done.

                  BTW, here's links to a study as to what would happen to California's MJ prices if it where to be legal. It basically says MJ prices would be 1/10 of what they are now, with OZs costing about $38.
                  price of marijana will decrease if pot is legal - Google Search
                  Pot prices could drop from $375 an ounce under the state's current medical marijuana law to as little as $38 per ounce before taxes as legal pot suddenly becomes available to the public, RAND researhers concluded.
                  "Right now, when individuals purchase drugs, they are paying for the drug dealer taking risks of being arrested," said Beau Kilmer, the center's co-director and the report's lead author.
                  That was from the first article and to be honest it sounds like a load of bull written by people who have no idea what is involved growing top of the line cannabis.
                  I know about sexing and cloning, Kurt.
                  I'll tell you this, if prices do drop to what they say it will be dirt weed and nothing better
                  They mention paying for the drug dealer taking risks which is different from growers.
                  If a drug dealer more then likely bought in quantity and did it for a lower price then what you pay (naturally).
                  No matter how much you grow or how you grow, getting top quality cannabis still is labor intensive and expensive to produce.
                  Kurt without going into any details I know what is involved to grow quality cannabis.
                  I've been visiting some of the top grow and legalization forums for years. I've had conversations with outdoor growers, indoor growers, and even a couple of the top breeders in the world.
                  Top quality cannabis will never, ever sell for the prices you think.
                  By the way look at the prices in Co. and look into how much licensing fees are to grow. There's a couple good documentaries out there that go into those details.
                  The govt. isn't going to make it easy or cheap to be a grower and they will have to pass the cost of doing business on to someone.
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        • Profile picture of the author SerenitySerenity
          YES , how else are people going to enhance physical or emotional highs.

          here's something someone should do after ur high and home alone

          Clit Stimulation : Vacuum Cleaner

          when you do get baked or high, you should stay at home browsing the internet and listening to music
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  • Profile picture of the author KLaAz0r
    Yes, why?

    I live in amsterdam and it is not a danger, I dont use it but i have friends who do, and they are totally fine..
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    • Profile picture of the author dcristo
      Originally Posted by KLaAz0r View Post

      Yes, why?

      I live in amsterdam and it is not a danger, I dont use it but i have friends who do, and they are totally fine..
      what do you mean by fine? fine as in not dead or fine as in successful?

      greening out isn't going to kill you but habitually smoking the stuff is going to have a really negative influence on your life. i should know i used to, it was a huge motivation killer. although it has to be said that marijuana is a drug that affects everyone differently.

      with that said, i would legalize the stuff, and would say the same thing about most illicit substances, excluding heroine and cocaine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Originally Posted by Victoria Gates View Post

    Should Marijuana Be Legalized?
    I definitely think marijuana should be illegal. (And, I'm glad it is.) Because it can be a contributory factor in the development of serious mental illnesses.
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      I definitely think marijuana should be illegal. (And, I'm glad it is.) Because it can be a contributory factor in the development of serious mental illnesses.
      Show us some facts - where are you getting your information?
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        I could show you all the facts (and experience) in the World. However I don't see any point because even if it were “bullet proof” people would still try and debunk it.

        Go search on Google and you'll see plenty of facts.
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    • Profile picture of the author scubasteve-cr
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      I definitely think marijuana should be illegal. (And, I'm glad it is.) Because it can be a contributory factor in the development of serious mental illnesses.
      So, just curious here, but what do you think gives you the right to tell another adult what they can or cannot put into their mouth?
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    • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      I definitely think marijuana should be illegal. (And, I'm glad it is.) Because it can be a contributory factor in the development of serious mental illnesses.
      It's true. I once caught schizophrenia from hitting a bong at a party while I was in school. What made it so tough was that I was also blind at the time for touching myself the previous evening. Very scary week to say the least. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Originally Posted by mattlaclear View Post

        It's true. I once caught schizophrenia from hitting a bong at a party while I was in school. What made it so tough was that I was also blind at the time for touching myself the previous evening.
        What many people don't realise is that the "paranoia", "de personalization" "etc" is the same that people suffering from Sz experience.
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    • Profile picture of the author Victoria Gates
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      I definitely think marijuana should be illegal. (And, I'm glad it is.) Because it can be a contributory factor in the development of serious mental illnesses.
      I see what you are saying. But I think anything in moderation. One reason I would support it being legal myself is even though I dont smoke it, I see its benefit as medicine and there are much worse drugs out there. We should spend less taxpayer dollars chasing pot smokers and more time chasing people on meth and heroine etc.. drugs that really cause mental disorders.

      Almost anything you ingest repeatedly over time (*even Tylenol) can have a negative effect on you mentally and/or physically so thats really not a valid enough argument for me against pot.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        OK. Well it looks like I'm in the minority of one in this discussion. And, I respect everyone's opinion. (Thank You Kim :-) It would be foolish to think I can change people's point of view. Here's a couple of questions however for those of you who think marijuana his harmless:

        1. Why do people smoking "m" suffer from paranoia/anxiety?
        2. Why do people smoking "m" suffer from de-personalization?
        3. Why do people smoking "m" suffer from psychosis?
        4. Why was "m" in the 70's (etc.) treated with an anti-psychotic?

        Cheers.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          OK. Well it looks like I'm in the minority of one in this discussion. And, I respect everyone's opinion. (Thank You Kim :-) It would be foolish to think I can change people's point of view. Here's a couple of questions however for those of you who think marijuana his harmless:

          1. Why do people smoking “m” suffer from paranoia/anxiety?
          2. Why do people smoking “m” suffer from de-personalization?
          3. Why do people smoking “m” suffer from psychosis?
          4. Why was “m” in the 70's (etc.) treated with an anti-psychotic?

          Cheers.
          Jonathan I want you to know I respect your opinions also.
          Now on to those 4 points.
          1 thru 4 it doesn't plain and simple.
          Look at it from a logical point of view.
          There are currently over 5 million admitted cannabis smokers in the U.S. alone (actually an old statistic the numbers today are much higher).
          Seems if cannabis caused those problems the number of users would be much smaller.
          I've smoked for over 40 years and I can assure you I'm not paranoid, don't have a personality problem (other then being an ass most of the time) and don't have any type of psychosis. That statement is also true for the many cannabis smokers I know, many of which have been smoking as long as I have.
          I also have a feeling if Carl Sagan was still alive he would also dispute those claims.
          Sagan was a user and advocate of marijuana. Under the pseudonym "Mr. X", he contributed an essay about smoking cannabis to the 1971 book Marihuana Reconsidered.[49][50] The essay explained that marijuana use had helped to inspire some of Sagan's works and enhance sensual and intellectual experiences. After Sagan's death, his friend Lester Grinspoon disclosed this information to Sagan's biographer, Keay Davidson. The publishing of the biography, Carl Sagan: A Life, in 1999 brought media attention to this aspect of Sagan's life.[51][52][53] Not long after his death, widow Ann Druyan had gone on to preside over the board of directors of NORML, a foundation dedicated to reforming cannabis laws.[citation needed]

          Carl Sagan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          In the 70's the only thing cannabis was treated with was paraquat.
          This is a dangerous weed killer that the U.S. govt. sprayed on cannabis fields in Mexico and South America.
          Nation: Panic over Paraquat - TIME
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Hi Thom.

            I wasn't clear. What I meant is that "m" users suffer those symptoms temporally when smoking. As for "m" inspiring creativity I actually think that's quite interesting.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              Hi Thom.

              I wasn't clear. What I meant is that "m" users suffer those symptoms temporally when smoking. As for "m" inspiring creativity I actually think that's quite interesting.
              Yes some do but it's really not the norm.
              I don't really like these conversations because I tend to make cannabis sound perfect.
              It's not perfect nor are the people who use it.
              But the facts remain that is one of the most harmless things we can put in our bodies with the good points far outweighing the bad ones.
              When you look at the pharmaceuticals that doctors can legally prescribe and look into the real side effects they can and do cause and then look at the proven effects of smoking cannabis, it's a no brainer that cannabis is much better and safer for you.
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        • Profile picture of the author askloz
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Here's a couple of questions however for those of you who think marijuana his harmless:

          1. Why do people smoking “m” suffer from paranoia/anxiety?
          People take it cos they have it,they did not get paranoia/anxiety by smoking it.

          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          2. Why do people smoking “m” suffer from de-personalization?
          I don't think people feel they are in a world of their own (being in their own bubble), they are fully aware of what's going on out there.
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post


          3. Why do people smoking “m” suffer from psychosis?
          once again, those that smoke it are under control. they are not delusional.

          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          4. Why was “m” in the 70's (etc.) treated with an anti-psychotic?

          Cheers.
          it helps relax the brain.

          many people who have ADD, or who are schizophrenic, etc, has helped them in a big way.

          I've been smoking M on and off for 15 yrs (moderately) for my spinal bifida, and I'm just fine...

          All these other symptoms you hear from people are excuses derived from those who were caught smoking it illegally, so to get out of trouble they push out some BS stuff to get a lighter sentence/fine.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Hi Askloz.

            I appreciate you "answering" my questions. And I suppose it's good that you've found a way to alleviate your condition. However you're wrong. (Sorry to be blunt.) People who smoke "m" do experience paranoia, de-personalization, etc., etc.

            So far nobody has addressed the research I posted orginally. So here it is again.

            Marijuana, Cannabis and Schizophrenia - Schizophrenia.com

            Use of street drugs (including LSD,methamphetamine,marijuana/hash/cannabis) and alcohol have been linked with significantly increased probability of developing psychosis and schizophrenia. This link has been documented in over 30 different scientific studies (studies done mostly in the UK, Australia and Sweden) over the past 20 years.

            In one example, a study interviewed 50,000 members of the Swedish Army about their drug consumption and followed up with them later in life. Those who were heavy consumers of cannabis at age 18 were over 600% more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia over the next 15 years than those did not take it. (see diagram below).

            Experts estimate that between 8% and 13% of all schizophrenia cases are linked to marijuna / cannabis use during teen years.

            http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              Hi Askloz.

              I appreciate you "answering" my questions. And I suppose it's good that you've found a way to alleviate your condition. However you're wrong. (Sorry to be blunt.) People who smoke "m" do experience paranoia, de-personalization, etc., etc.

              So far nobody has addressed the research I posted orginally. So here it is again.

              Marijuana, Cannabis and Schizophrenia - Schizophrenia.com
              Ok here it is.
              Does Marijuana Cause Schizophrenia? | Robert Lindsay
              He links to the reports that he sites.
              The truth of the matter is (as he also states) that there are for more dangerous risks of schizophrenia then smoking cannabis. Things like prescription drugs, alcohol, etc.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                OK. So that's one person's opinion. (Against many researchers who have been studying the link for years ...)

                A man who describes himself as: "Off in his own World." (Haha) If you are a good debater you can make anything seem plausible.
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                  OK. So that's one person's opinion. (Against many researchers who have been studying the link for years ...)

                  A man who describes himself as: "Off in his own World." (Haha) If you are a good debater you can make anything seem plausible.
                  I think his points are still valid. I'll even use your link to prove my point.
                  Use of street drugs (including LSD,methamphetamine,marijuana/hash/cannabis) and alcohol have been linked with significantly increased probability of developing psychosis and schizophrenia.
                  That's the first part of their overview.
                  In one example, a study interviewed 50,000 members of the Swedish Army about their drug consumption and followed up with them later in life. Those who were heavy consumers of cannabis at age 18 were over 600% more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia over the next 15 years than those did not take it.
                  Now does it say anything about the other substances they took?
                  What about family histories, or even when they started smoking?
                  In order for that study to be accurate they (the subjects) would have to be proven non-schizophrenic in the beginning and have not used any other substance besides cannabis.
                  How much alcohol did they drink? Did they also smoke cigs.? What about prescription drugs.
                  That sounds like the type of study done by Dr. Heath at Tulane university.
                  He decided to prove that smoking cannabis kills brain cells.
                  So he took a group of Rhesus monkeys, fitted them with air tight gas masks and filled the masks with cannabis smoke. He then left the masks on for 15 to 30 minutes.
                  He then killed the monkeys and counted their dead brain cells which he compared to his control group of dean monkeys brain cells. The result? the group with themasks had more dead brain cells, hence smoking cannabis will kill your brain cells.
                  Or is it really from a lack of oxygen for that long that kills brain cells?

                  The point is there are numerous things out there that can trigger schizophrenia besides cannabis that can do it much quicker and more severely, and they are legal.
                  If you want to use that as a reason for keeping cannabis illegal then you should go after cigs., alcohol, and legal pharmaceuticals as well.
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                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                    Johnathan, another thing you may want to do is simply look at the real world.
                    With the large number of cannabis smokers world wide chances are very good that 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 people that you come in contact with daily are cannabis users.
                    Seriously, think about that. Cannabis smokers are everywhere and have every occupation going. They can be your garbage collector or your doctor who chooses to smoke a bowl at night instead of having a whiskey to relax.
                    We've had presidents, doctors, lawyers, and even people like Carl Sagan who have admitted being cannabis smokers. If a real study was done of across the board I doubt you would find the numbers to be that much different between smokers and none smokers.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                      Something else I should mention: Many, many more people smoke cigarettes. However that's doesn't necessarily mean they're safe.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                    Thom.

                    I don't think you're interpreting the study correctly. To begin with they studied people for different types of (illegal) substances. Then, they conducted a study for people smoking "M" only. Estimating that 8%-13% of schizophrenia cases are linked with "M." (That's the way I read it anyway.)

                    People are often talking about "M" being safe etc. Young people here this and assume it's safe. Then they take as much "M" as they like. And, if they have the genetic pre-disposition, they are more likely to develop schizophrenia. This has all been supported by non-biased studies. "M" (for some people) isn't safe.
                     
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    The point is there are numerous things out there that can trigger schizophrenia besides cannabis that can do it much quicker and more severely, and they are legal.
                    Thom where are you getting this information from? Please show me some evidence of that being true. Specifically alchohol and legal drugs.

                    Cheers.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                      Thom.

                      I don't think you're interpreting the study correctly. To begin with they studied people for different types of (illegal) substances. Then, they conducted a study for people smoking "M" only. Estimating that 8%-13% of schizophrenia cases are linked with "M." (That's the way I read it anyway.)

                      People are often talking about "M" being safe etc. Young people here this and assume it's safe. Then they take as much "M" as they like. And, if they have the genetic pre-disposition, they are more likely to develop schizophrenia. This has all been supported by non-biased studies. “M” (for some people) isn’t safe.
                       


                      Thom where are you getting this information from? Please show me some evidence of that being true. Specifically alchohol and legal drugs.

                      Cheers.
                      Without listing a thousand links I'll just put up one.
                      Causes of schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                      I think this one statement says a lot about the relationship between schizophrenia and drugs of all kinds.
                      The relationship between schizophrenia and drug use is complex, meaning that a clear causal connection between drug use and schizophrenia has been difficult to tease apart. There is strong evidence that using certain drugs can trigger either the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in some people. It may also be the case, however, that people with schizophrenia use drugs to overcome negative feelings associated with both the commonly prescribed antipsychotic medication and the condition itself, where negative emotion, paranoia and anhedonia are all considered to be core features.
                      The rate of substance use is known to be particularly high in this group. In a recent study, 60% of people with schizophrenia were found to use substances and 37% would be diagnosable with a substance use disorder.[86]
                      As for legal drugs the ones mentioned here (but not by name) would be the amphetamines or the diet pills that doctors have prescribed.
                      The video I posted earlier also touches on what legal prescription drugs can do so I'll post it again.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                        From your Wikipedia link Thom.


                        There is some evidence that cannabis use can contribute to schizophrenia. Some studies suggest that cannabis is neither a sufficient nor necessary factor in developing schizophrenia, but that cannabis may significantly increase the risk of developing schizophrenia and may be, among other things, a significant causal factor. Nevertheless, some previous research in this area has been criticised as it has often not been clear whether cannabis use is a cause or effect of schizophrenia.

                        To address this issue, a recent review of studies from which a causal contribution to schizophrenia can be assessed has suggested that cannabis statistically doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia on the individual level, and may, assuming a causal relationship, be responsible for up to 8% of cases in the population.

                        Causes of schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                          There is some evidence that cannabis use can contribute to schizophrenia. Some studies suggest that cannabis is neither a sufficient nor necessary factor in developing schizophrenia, but that cannabis may significantly increase the risk of developing schizophrenia and may be, among other things, a significant causal factor. Nevertheless, some previous research in this area has been criticised as it has often not been clear whether cannabis use is a cause or effect of schizophrenia.

                          To address this issue, a recent review of studies from which a causal contribution to schizophrenia can be assessed has suggested that cannabis statistically doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia on the individual level, and may, assuming a causal relationship, be responsible for up to 8% of cases in the population.

                          Causes of schizophrenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                          I know that's one of the reasons I linked to it.
                          Suggested doesn't equal proved and assuming, well you know what that does
                          It was also mentioned that scientist still aren't sure if the drug use was a cause or effect.
                          If anything these studies may prove that some schizo's smoke cannabis and that it may not be a cure for the disease..
                          But I still don't see anywhere that absolutely proves smoking cannabis is the main or only reason a person has it. There are simply to many other factors that can contribute to the disease. That's why they assume and suggest.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                            Thom I can see this going on for a long time. I simply will not change my mind. And you won't either. Maybe we should just agree to disagree.

                            Or you can keep going if you want ...
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                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                              Thom I can see this going on for a long time. I simply will not change my mind. And you won't either. Maybe we should just agree to disagree.

                              Or you can keep going if you want ...
                              Sounds like a plan to me Jonathan
                              I will say I've enjoyed this discussion with you.
                              It's rare for a discussion on this subject to go this far without some name calling and other useless stuff popping up.
                              Thank you.
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            • Profile picture of the author QuickSurf
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              Hi Askloz.

              I appreciate you "answering" my questions. And I suppose it's good that you've found a way to alleviate your condition. However you're wrong. (Sorry to be blunt.) People who smoke "m" do experience paranoia, de-personalization, etc., etc.

              So far nobody has addressed the research I posted orginally. So here it is again.

              Marijuana, Cannabis and Schizophrenia - Schizophrenia.com
              Sorry disagree, myself nor anyone I know that smokes "M" as you say, suffers from any of that. And your own "facts" posted don't even say it does, just that it "may". People that "may" experience an increase in said problems already have them whether in active form or in dormant form. If it was the causes, Research would have pointed that out bold and clear

              Have a friend who most people would consider a pot head, smokes every day fairly heavily yet functions fine, owns and run's two multi million $ companies. Another friend that smokes very heavily, and again no problems, both smoke for over 10+ years.
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      I definitely think marijuana should be illegal. (And, I'm glad it is.) Because it can be a contributory factor in the development of serious mental illnesses.

      ooh but it's okay for doctors to give kids Ritalin (basically it's meth)
      or it's okay for your doctors to give out Oxycontin (basically heroin)

      and alcoholic's don't have "mental illnesses" ?

      don't you see how ridiculous saying marijuana causes mental illnesses when the legal stuff is even worse...

      come on!

      every substance can be abused...look at over-eaters...they abuse food...need I say more?

      I think Portugal's stand on drugs is correct. I wish the rest of the world would wise up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    No that's ok - I have plenty of experience myself for decades and many friends watching them also for decades.

    If people have a pre-existing 'situation' then even air might contribute to their 'serious mental illness' -

    Same goes for alcohol - some people can drink and not become diseased psychologically or physically ('wet brain') and the guy sitting right next to him or even in the same family will die - and this I have personal first hand experience - a father (dead at 42) and an ex-husband (dead at 38).

    It's just that if you make a statement YOU need to provide the facts - otherwise it is just your opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      It's just that if you make a statement YOU need to provide the facts - otherwise it is just your opinion.
      [Sigh.] Well OK. Here's some information for you.

      Marijuana, Cannabis and Schizophrenia - Schizophrenia.com
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Well, he has just as much right to think its bad for you as you have the right to think its not.
    Its called freedom of thought and speech and it is encouraged here in the states.
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    • Profile picture of the author scubasteve-cr
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      Well, he has just as much right to think its bad for you as you have the right to think its not.
      Its called freedom of thought and speech and it is encouraged here in the states.
      I didn't say what gives him the right to think. I said what gives him the right to TELL another adult what he can or cannot put in his mouth. Do you not own your own body?
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      • Profile picture of the author KimW
        Originally Posted by scubasteve-cr View Post

        I didn't say what gives him the right to think. I said what gives him the right to TELL another adult what he can or cannot put in his mouth. Do you not own your own body?
        Argh Matey!
        And he didn't tell you that you couldn't. He just answered the question that the OP asked.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I say legalize it and tax the everlasting hell out of it. How is that not a no brainer for our nation???
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Of course, Thom - you have to remember when you read Kurt's posts, that Kurt lives in one hella primo spot to grow the stuff, too. Why if he has land out that way I'm betting he could really come in with a cash crop worth a little gloat. Mountain grown with warm to hot sunny days and cold frosty nights. Even the plants grow fur, I swear it.

    I can just picture Kurt in his straw hat and bib blue jeans, pitchfork in hand and a shoot of grass between his teeth worrying whether the moose will be too heavy when they climb on the roof of his humble Hobit house.

    We can all go visit him then. Warrior BBQ in style. Good time.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    With the amount of psycho pharmaceuticals being pushed by the FDA, (Zanex, Roxy's, Oxy's) I definitely think marijuana has been unjustly classified.

    I personally don't smoke anymore (mainly because the punishment is not worth the therapeutic value), and yet to think synthetic heroin, methadone, and several other drugs that lead to total dependency are considered "safe" let alone "legal" takes hypocrisy to a whole new level!

    (Talk about up-sells, re-bills, and recurring income...just look at crap they sell as a remedy...it's pathetic really!)

    I laughed my ass off yesterday when the radio announced; "Denver, Colorado currently has more Medical Marijuana Stores than they do Starbucks coffee shops!"

    Here in Florida, they'll suspend your driver's license for two years for so much as a 'roach' in your possession!

    Yet, when I was in my prime...The 80's you could literally walk around with it, and if it was less than an ounce it wasn't even worth an officer's time to write up the paperwork. *Not Anymore!

    Corporal punishment used to be reserved towards those who damage someones well-being, property, or sanctity. Nowadays, if you catch the wrong officer for a minor traffic violation, you could literally become a felon just trying to declare your civil rights.

    This issue is 'way deeper' than just legalizing marijuana. It really sickens me to see such a bias disregard on behalf of government officials who conclude prescriptions of frigging synthetic heroin (ROXY's) as a formal solution to someone's problem, yet smoking a joint is a cardinal sin?

    I'm not only an IM Warrior, I am a spiritual warrior of sort and through many mind altering explorations, I sincerely conclude alcohol is far more damaging than weed!

    Ironically, I survived some close calls in my life, and not once was marijuana to blame!

    Understandably, it's not for everyone. If you're like me hyper-active, ADD, and tri-polar, it can be therapeutic. I say "tri-polar" because we are all comprised of mind, body, and soul (spirit if you prefer) and seldom do the 3 get along

    I think it's time we reenact a reformation like that of Martin Luther (Diet of Worms 1,500's) against this nonsense our leaders are selling...maybe they need to smoke a bowl, and find some inner peace!

    Honestly, if you can say you trust anything today's government prescribes to society at large; after blatantly ripping off it's own people with blasphemous lies, bad decisions, and an obvious abuse of power/control/money... than it's no wonder they want everyone on something harder than pot.

    Personally, I see history repeating itself, and this reminds me of the "Fall of the Roman Empire". The key factor's believed responsible for their fall were:
    • They became complacent, fat and lazy, and began 'outsourcing' the menial jobs (like killing enemies) to the Germans...which led to...
    • Infiltration to their Catholic beliefs, as Christianity became a growing threat!
    • Perhaps the biggest reason (IMHO) -Abuse of power, over-taxation, and poor planning
    Forgive me, but kinda sounds like home to me!

    IMO Marijuana to me is safer than 1/2 the drugs they want to feed our kids today, and with everyone seeking ways to fill the infamous void of existence, I think the stress levels would be greatly reduced, as would crime if it were legalized, and dependencies on harder pharmaceuticals were reduced.

    It too has been proven in other countries, and places like Amsterdam drugs legalized in moderation reduced the crime rates by upwards of 80% (*according to my old Pastor...a drug-free scholar himself)

    I think the Goverment is affraid everyone would grow their own, and they wouldn't be able to 'capitalize' (or profit) from it. They make way too much $ on bogus arrests, court ordered drug-treatment programs, county and state inmates that much of the judicial system has become a 'meat market' and a numbers game fueled by GREED!

    At the end of the day, I don't care either way.

    What I do care about is regaining some integrity in the manner "We the People" defend our constitutional rights, and stop tolerating the BS this ego-crazed & greed riddled government has been selling for the last 30-40 years!

    This is a problem that I believe has been brewing for a long time, and it derives from the 'minority' benefiting from the sufferings of the majority in a bias disregard for equality or even a sense of unity, because mankind is hell bent on greed, power, and control.

    How can such a powerful nation cut school budgets, neglect it's own people, and reward those who broke the backs of the middle-class homeowners, all while NOT seeing the damage they were creating, c'mon...I could never be stoned enough to be so blind to such ignorance!

    I say we "Just Say No" to spending BILLIONS on 'sand-box' wars, when the real threat terrorizing our freedom is NOT marijuana, nor some 'dictator' half way across the globe, the real threat is NOT black, nor white, or even green...the real threat is the bias disregard for the well-being of the majority!

    Then again, 2000 years ago a man was crucified for speaking truth and educating the ignorant while a murderer was set free!

    Has anything really changed?

    Smoking pot may not be the solution, but denying an all natural drug over that of a synthetic 'killers' is definitely not acceptable either!

    I sincerely think we need to restructure our priority's!
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post


      Smoking pot may not be the solution, but denying an all natural drug over that of a synthetic 'killers' is definitely not acceptable either!

      I sincerely think we need to restructure our priority's!
      Ummm.........are you saying that elitists should not be allowed to commit mass murder either? Even if there's tons of profit? Well.

      There goes my obsession with becoming an elitist. I tthought I'd be able to do anything I wanted if I had enough bucks.

      Guess I'll go back to rock hunting.
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  • Profile picture of the author svenolen2
    Yes it should be legalized. It's everyone's own business what he does with his/her life. If he/she want's to smoke marijuana, then let him/her do it! It's his/her own business!
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathy Curiel
    I am glad it legal in my country !
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Originally Posted by Nathy Curiel View Post

      I am glad it legal in my country !
      (Haha) Yeah the Dutch have it all figured out. Is there anything in your country that actually is illegal?

      (Jesting.)
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Nathy Curiel View Post

      I am glad it legal in my country !
      You're not real familiar with Dutch laws are you
      It's not legal in Holland, it's tolerated.
      Of course the Dutch have found out through that policy that hard drug use has declined, any drug use by minors has declined, and drug related crimes have declined.

      So far Portugal is the closest country to legalization.
      They have taken a hard stand on treating drug abuse as a medical and not criminal problem and are very lax on cannabis (may have even legalized it).
      So far their approach has been very successful in reducing drug abuse and drug related crimes and are being looked at as a model for drug policies around the world.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathy Curiel
    It is legal to smoke it and you can buy it in coffeeshops all over the country.
    If you more then 5 gram with you then it illegal .
    It legal for coffeeshop to sell pot but when the shop has to buy the pot. The part is illegal. It is legal to have two plants at home. But growing more plants is not legal.
    If you want to grow a lot of plants, to sell it . Then you go to a growshop. Which is selling everything you need to grow a ****load of plants at home. Which not legal. After you harvest you plants you have grown at home. You can sell back to the growshop which sell it to the coffeeshop.

    Yup I know how it sounds but it is hollland
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by Nathy Curiel View Post

      It is legal to smoke it and you can buy it in coffeeshops all over the country.
      If you more then 5 gram with you then it illegal .
      It legal for coffeeshop to sell pot but when the shop has to buy the pot. The part is illegal. It is legal to have two plants at home. But growing more plants is not legal.
      If you want to grow a lot of plants, to sell it . Then you go to a growshop. Which is selling everything you need to grow a ****load of plants at home. Which not legal. After you harvest you plants you have grown at home. You can sell back to the growshop which sell it to the coffeeshop.

      Yup I know how it sounds but it is hollland
      Nathy that is pretty much what I heard with a couple of exceptions.
      The way I understood it was technically illegal but the coffee shops where tolerated as long as they paid a 'sin tax', same with the prostitution in the red light district.
      Same with the possession 5 and under was technically illegal, but wasn't considered an offense worth hassling anyone about.
      But as I've said many times before, I could be wrong
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  • Profile picture of the author rekerlolz
    Yes it should be legalized because more than half of the nation is going to smoke it and do what they please with it regardless of it being illegal ...just kind of like how it is right now.
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  • Profile picture of the author jackphillipcbccr
    I don't think it should be legalized.... The society is already so messed up. It would be make the situation more worse.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

    Ummm.........are you saying that elitists should not be allowed to commit mass murder either? Even if there's tons of profit? Well.

    There goes my obsession with becoming an elitist. I tthought I'd be able to do anything I wanted if I had enough bucks.

    Guess I'll go back to rock hunting.
    Sorry...but you lost me here (big time)

    The only 'profit' I am concerned with regarding matters as such, is spelled; "Prophet" - short for "Prophecy" and in absolution it doesn't take 'rocket science, Harvard degrees, or money to establish or preconceive that the face of conformity is an evil bitch wielding shackles and chains!

    Be it the topic of legalizing marijuana or slow decay of moral fabric being removed from that which our flag once stood, it is a 'timeless' struggle for freedom, and a constant battle we must engage in to defend our rights.

    WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO SMOKE MARIJUANA -Much like those of the early slavery days had a right to be free.

    And, though I am not smoking these days, I will fight to defend that right!

    The only thing stopping it is the "blind ambition" of control and conform by those self-proclaimed leaders or elitists who's focus is not unlike that of the hierarchy (British empire) we narrowly escaped. (And for what?)

    To recreate the same tyranny?

    Who are we fooling...read this, and see if you can correlate a difference between then and now?

    When a power becomes so great that it's arrogance defeats it primary purpose... it threatens the whole!

    While the names may change, the battle continues...and it's all about freedom! Not money, not color, not race, not academics, nor judgement, nor even you or I smoking some weed.

    It boils down to the preservation of liberty. We cannot "wash our hands" of the responsibility to use proper, insightful, factual, and informative information to defend our rights...yet are rights are growing increasingly distant, and everyone wants to weigh judgement upon one another, rather than fight to provide meaningful solutions. *Basically, we can blame the government right?

    WRONG!

    It's our responsibility to enact reform, otherwise we rely on the mercy of the few elite leaders. If the leaders are capable of leading the sheep to slaughter...who's to blame?

    If we do not defend our rights, then we become the echoes of those 'silent screams' once ignored in all the countries that we defend and are oppressed by abusive leaders.

    I don't blame the leaders, I blame us!

    If I had a reference to how I feel about our current state of affairs concerning the economy, finding solutions to a resolve, and allowing my fellow man to smoke the peace pipe...it would sound almost [exact] to this:


    Patrick Henry - March 23, 1775 "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death!"

    I hate to state the obvious for those who refuse to see or hear it, but what this man said 236 years ago is damn near exact to our nations problems today, only the names and circumstantial threats have changed.

    We have a responsibility to defend our honor, and the right to smoke marijuana. However, be it one small step for man, it would be one giant leap for mankind if we could all see what is being lost here!

    Hence, the reason I stated; maybe smoking pot is NOT the answer, but just one small ingredient for creating a recipe to preserve our rights, and more importantly; our liberty and freedoms.

    BUT i think the response is "YES" - I disagree with the bs the elitists are compiling against the 'majority' as it outweighs the benefits to both themselves, and those deemed the insignificant or 'oppressed' by measure of arrogance, ignorance, and abuse of power!

    Not quite sure how my theory on "why" marijuana should be legalized, has crossed the threshold of 'elitists', but then what the hell do I know; "I'm NOT and elitist!"

    My point was like many others, there are far worse drugs that are prescribed and are considered legal by our all-too-wise governing bodies that cause much greater damage,-but yet, an all-natural drug like marijuana is scrutinized and constituted as illegal? Hmmmmm.

    Hell, our reliance on sugar does more damage in this country! Let's ban the entire automotive and carbon-monoxide burning resources while we're at it, huh?

    Bottom line...money and greed has abolished any hope for reconciliation to the damages mankind is responsible for, and likely will continue to abuse.

    ...all the "pot heads" I grew up around (Dear Ol' Mom and Dad included) were more concerned for preserving their civil rights, being creative, expanding their minds, respecting their neighbors, and were willing to fight to defend our liberty's and freedoms.

    Perhaps a bit irrelevant, but I am the bi-product of (2) 60's parents, by which one was returned home nearly 'mentally incompetent' after being 'drafted' for 2 years at age 18, and sent into Vietnam, while the other found marijuana as a 'therapeutic solution' when she realized 'what a twisted and sadistic world we live in.' (How much heroin was consumed other there?)

    If there were a relevant argument as to why marijuana should remain illegal; it would be best stated that we cannot rely on any drug, pill, nor potion to complete us as individuals or as a whole.

    However, as mankind's quest continues to tackle the unknown, such influences as drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, and greed will always be a temptation we cannot resist.

    Why?

    Cause they make us feel good, that's why! - and mirror's a sense of freedom (Be it sustained or momentary)

    The probability of marijuana causing other addictions, or being the gateway to greater exploration of more dangerous waters (hardcore drugs...which I too explored heavily) could be no more insulting than by which a government agency deemed "Prozac" was a solution to my problems as a teenager! (*A prescribed drug that literally made me suicidal, and has/had more side-effects than a $2 hooker at an all you can eat Bordello!)

    My problem was awakening to the realization, we live in a world where people refuse to admit fault, face fears, or recognize the ignorance we eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

    Who knows, maybe it was the acid!

    How did that come into societies grip again?...hmmmmmm

    In a direct response to the above, I think we (United States Citizens) need to grow some balls, defend our rights, demand reform in that which jeopardizes our constitutional rights, and stop the reliance we place on the "ELITISTS" (like government elected officials per se) who are NOT concerned for our best interests, preserving equality, or anything that even resembles any semblance of unity or what forged this great nation.

    Maybe it's because I live in Florida, a transient state....filled with all kinds, but I don't recognize that which used to symbolize a powerful country, or our heritage once bent on preserving liberty!

    To really understand how deep thee absurdity now is in this country, one would have to study the past, and come to respect how the United States came to be. It wasn't pretty!

    Look, I am no genius in any regard, I am not wielding academic degrees, nor privileged in the sense of being aristocratically formulated. Instead I have been cursed with common sense, vision, and the spiritual fortitude to stand and defend what once guaranteed the next generation the liberty's and freedoms we are meant to defend, and explore.

    To hell with politics, and most religions are just as guilty of seeking a power they do not or cannot ever behold!

    However, George Washington once stated and I'm paraphrasing; "Show me a country that has lost it's religious virtues, and I'll show you a country on the verge of def!eat" (Mind you I prefer "spiritual" over the term; religious!)

    Again, not much has changed, nor likely ever will if everyone focuses on debating the problem, and pointing fingers and blame rather than providing solutions. The only finger-pointing I'm doing is flying my birds to anything that jeopardizes the well-being of the whole!

    It is a curse all mankind suffers unto...cast judgement first, investigate later!

    The sad reality is; in trying to preserve the 'elitists' power and money as a measure of control and conform has failed miserable. A blind and deaf man can see and hear they have created a huge debt, threatened the well being of an entire nation, defaced the value of the constitution, and stopped me from being able to smoke my weed without weighing the punishments they unjustly deem appropriate.

    You don't like weed, good don't smoke it! You don't believe in God, good worship a rock for all I care!

    But, stop pissing down the backs of our heritage, and casting judgment on what forged this nation, as it's the same as going to Italy and telling them not to be Catholic.

    Here's a thought, "What happens when people FREE their "closed" minds and 'stand up for what they believe in? (like freedom, preserving unity by measure of freewill) ...I'll tell ya; they are condemned for threatening the authority.

    We are a 'broke nation' like it or not!

    Yes, we are to blame for we sat back and expected a few to decide for the majority. Like with any government that we 'invade', the people should control the government, NOT the other way around.

    Keep placing reliance on others to decide for you. Keep casting judgment where it has no place. Keep being pompous and telling yourself you're better than the next because you don't (or never have done drugs), keep believing Rock-n-Roll is Satanic, and marijuana's bad!

    The sad reality is; a large majority who oppose such matters have no credit to weigh their value, cause the majority heard it was bad and believed it...doesn't get any more ignorant than that!

    I live by the experience, not the notion. A college grad can recite Shakespeare or become a Harvard lawyer, doesn't mean he/she has earned anymore credit than a F'in parrot that repeats what it has heard, and impersonates the intelligence of it's originator.

    Yet, many hold key positions of power and rely upon the intelligence of others to glorify themselves. Sit down with a stoner, and you'd be surprised the raw intelligence that can transpire...OH, let's label that uncharacteristic of conformity, and title it; mental illness.

    I'll tell ya what's mentally ill...allowing ignorance to railroad over your neighbors right to smoke marijuana whether you do or not! That my friend is a mental illness, for it threatens both the freedom of the smoker and the non-smoker alike, and will surely tighten the noose a little tighter for everyone!

    WE have a responsibility (stoned or not) to defend civility, our heritage, our constitutional rights, and what little remains left of that which our forefathers fought to defend.

    Honestly, telling American's not to smoke weed is the equivalent of going to Italy and telling them not to eat pasta!

    Yet, we piss down the backs of the majority by 'cutting back' on all that matters, while we blindly refuse to accept; if we allow issues like this to continue, our kids won't have enough "Common Sense" (a book written by Thomas Payne)...to stand up, defend themselves, let alone fight for what remains of their inherent rights!

    Guess that was a "Quarter's worth...since the dollar has lost it's value!"

    Sorry for the rant, but I am passionate when it comes to equal rights, freedom, and smoking marijuana. I may just move to Denver soon!
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Sorry...but you lost me here (big time)
      It was just some sarcasm by Sal, art.
      I guess you would have to know her better to see the humor of what she said.
      Personally I laughed my butt off at it
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      • Profile picture of the author art72
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        It was just some sarcasm by Sal, art.
        I guess you would have to know her better to see the humor of what she said.
        Personally I laughed my butt off at it
        Thank you for clarifying that...wasn't quite sure how to take it.

        It just amazes me how people fail to see the impending choke hold on our freedoms, if we cannot find the importance of defending what's left of our rights. (Hence, I stand centrally located in the wake of the blind screaming at the deaf, while the deaf respond with a middle finger...pointless!)
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I accidentally inhaled a puff of marijuana as second hand smoke once when I was 16 and it didn't make me paranoid. Why do you guys think I'm paranoid? Why are you guys looking at me like that? If I seem paranoid it's only because of the way you're looking at me. I'm not paranoid. I have to go, my ... um, closet needs cleaned. I'm not paranoid.





    Yes, this is an attempt at humor. I'm really NOT paranoid. I mean it this time. :-Þ
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      I accidentally inhaled a puff of marijuana as second hand smoke once when I was 16 and it didn't make me paranoid. Why do you guys think I'm paranoid? Why are you guys looking at me like that? If I seem paranoid it's only because of the way you're looking at me. I'm not paranoid. I have to go, my ... um, closet needs cleaned. I'm not paranoid.





      Yes, this is an attempt at humor. I'm really NOT paranoid. I mean it this time. :-Þ
      That doesnt mean people arent after you though... think about it.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    I too disagree, in fact when I used it, I was more active and social than ever. I started using marijuana at age 12, I'm 39 now, and I am not experiencing paranoia or schizophrenia (nor did I ever.) -In fact, I am much more stressed out without it!

    Alcohol on the other hand, made me schitzo, angry, sick, and caused black-outs. Pills and cocaine landed me in an adolescent drug treatment program by age 16, and I blame myself; not my parents, society, God, or marijuana as the cause of my excessive usage.

    Marijauna relaxed me and made me concentrate, be more attuned and focused in areas like artwork, and it taught me a great deal about self control. It too helped me make $100 a day on pool tables in a blue collar bar from the age of 14 -18, until I found better things to do with my time...like chase girls my own age

    I see it like this, some people like me can eat McDonald's and still remain 150 pounds soaking wet. Other's get fat, their cholesterol goes through the roof, and they die of a heart-attack.

    We stew in carbon monoxide everyday in a giant bubble because we found independence in our vehicles. Betcha if you pumped that into a monkey's helmet it would reveal some dead brain cells too!

    Heck I went wake-skating all day with my 17 year old yesterday at Wet-N-Wild here in Orlando, they announced; "On rare occasion, in non chlorinated fresh water above 70 degrees, a rare amoeba exists...blah! blah! blah!" -Yes, it too can kill you!

    Basically, if you look hard enough you can find fault in everything we eat, drink, smoke, drive...here's a tough fact for ya;

    People die of lung cancer without ever having smoked a cigarette. My great aunt smoked for 50 years, and lived until 103...go figure.

    There are a millions ways to argue whether it should? or should not be legal?

    IMO it really should be a matter of personal choice, not a constitutional decision. Like motorcycle helmet laws...let the rider decide.

    Our awareness needs to be increased, our minds need to move beyond and evolve from this temporal salvation, and start concerning ourselves less with what others do, and start providing solutions to what damage has already been done.

    When you get a 1hr 13 mins of free time, check out this movie on YouTube, I think it clearly shows a greater importance to how plants have maintained the balance of our survival.

    http://youtu.be/jqxENMKaeCU

    Then, ask yourself; do I really care if someone else uses marijuana?

    In my opinion, we need all the green we can get
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I had a friend who went totally off the rails when she started using marijuana. She loved it from the start and there was nothing recreational about it - she smoked to stay high.

      Short term memory loss, poor work performance, big change in personality (and not for the better). Her motivation disappeared as did her focus. Doesn't happen to many people, perhaps - but it happens.

      To me, the worst argument is "increased taxes" - that's being used to try to get online gaming approved as well. How far do we go to get money?

      I have no problem at all with anyone smoking in their home or on their property. I don't want to work with them if they are high - and I don't want to be the road with them, either. The biggest downside is there's no test for pot as there is with alcohol.

      It's not a simple issue. There was a time when tobacco users were told "it's safe", too. How much does smoking cost in insurance/medical now? Would widespread marijuana use be any different?

      I guess, for me, it comes down to how its legalized. Prescription with limited amounts - no problem. Wide open - get it when you want - I couldn't go for.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I had a friend who went totally off the rails when she started using marijuana. She loved it from the start and there was nothing recreational about it - she smoked to stay high.

        Short term memory loss, poor work performance, big change in personality (and not for the better). Her motivation disappeared as did her focus. Doesn't happen to many people, perhaps - but it happens.

        To me, the worst argument is "increased taxes" - that's being used to try to get online gaming approved as well. How far do we go to get money?

        I have no problem at all with anyone smoking in their home or on their property. I don't want to work with them if they are high - and I don't want to be the road with them, either. The biggest downside is there's no test for pot as there is with alcohol.

        It's not a simple issue. There was a time when tobacco users were told "it's safe", too. How much does smoking cost in insurance/medical now? Would widespread marijuana use be any different?

        I guess, for me, it comes down to how its legalized. Prescription with limited amounts - no problem. Wide open - get it when you want - I couldn't go for.

        kay
        Kay what happened to your friend could of happened with any drug she tried and liked, that's where moderation comes into play.
        I'm not a big fan of legalizing just for taxes either, I believe it is a personal choice to smoke or not and I Should have the right to decide for myself if I do or not.

        As far as your last line, it's pretty much like that now.
        That's why some of the arguments about what it will be like don't really play.
        AS much as I really hate to quote this site, this should give you a little incite as to the number of cannabis smokers in the US (I believe these are low, but still a large number)
        Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug. According to the 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), an estimated 104 million Americans aged 12 or older have tried marijuana at least once in their lifetimes, representing 41.5% of the U.S. population in that age group. The number of past year marijuana users in 2009 was approximately 28.5 million (11.3% of the population aged 12 or older) and the number of past month marijuana users was 16.7 million (6.6%).2
        Office of National Drug Control Policy - Marijuana Facts & Figures
        again I think those numbers are low, and who knows weather they gathered the statistics or made them up
        But the fact remains that a large number of Americans already smoke and don't have problems finding it.
        Also I don't now or have ever known someone who did drugs because they where illegal. To think that something like this should be a legal issue and not a health issue is ridiculous.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    I had a friend who went totally off the rails when she started using marijuana. She loved it from the start and there was nothing recreational about it - she smoked to stay high.
    kay
    Kay,

    Let me narrow down the 12 step program to one easy step...MODERATION!

    I can drink and be fine, and not be an alcoholic, if done so in moderation.
    I can eat junk food, and not have health concerns, if done so in moderation.
    I can have a prescribed drug, and not become addicted, if done in moderation.

    Perhaps the underlying issue of paranoia lies with those who do not understand the principles of moderation. However, if you happened to get through the video link above...I think it's fair to say NONE of us do anything in moderation, unless we grew up on an island with a soccer ball named Wilson, and come to appreciate the true value of life itself.

    I met a woman when I was 14, she was beautiful, had an 18 year old daughter that was one of the most caring people I ever met. She used to get 'illegal 'M' from a personal friend to ease her mother's agoraphobia.

    For those who don't know it is commonly associated to compulsory disorder, whereby, she couldn't leave the house without checking the stove 5x, or making sure the sink faucet was turned off. This lady found relief from 1-3 hits of 'M'. Hence, she alleviated her paranoia to a degree.

    Also, I owned and operated heavy equipment (Bobcat, Backhoe, Flatbed Dually with a pipe rack) and logged 100's of thousands of miles for the 15 years I built swimming pools.

    Not once have I been in an accident, nor done any damages greater than forgetting where the heck I left my keys. But I do that sober.

    I value life, respect others beliefs, and try to find meaning and purpose in all that I do. Naturally, we are all built differently and have different thresholds of mental fortitude, endurance, personality traits, and human characteristics that differ.

    Take a 'blue blooded' aristocrat, and place him/her into a menial labor job, and they will mentally disconnect from everything they are accustomed to, as will most poor people who hit the lottery!

    There are too many variables (habits, personal disorders, excuses, etc...) that alter the genetic make-up for each individual to conclude; "M" is bad.

    A mild example; for those of you who read Napoleon Hill's "Laws of Success in 16 Lessons" - Asa Chandler; founder of Coca-Cola was a huge success as people gathered around "The Enchanted Kettle." Hill admits to having proposed to his wife; high on what....Cocaine. To date cocaine extracts are used in medical fields all over the globe.

    This reverts back to moderation. If you abuse any drug, and this is NOT limited to pills, alcohol, or even "M" - you will suffer repercussions. I say this from experience.:rolleyes:

    However, do we remember Napoleon Hill as a drug addict?

    Timothy Leary produced LSD which our government administered to our own soldiers, believing it to be a truth serum. Vietnam was riddled with heroin use whereby 3 out of 4 soldiers became addicted.

    How did these drugs become so mainstream?

    Think about what I am saying...somewhere between the lies, red tape, and bureaucratically twisted bs, you have to see the point. Governments do what?

    They govern. They govern over and capitalize upon anything they can to maintain power. If you think our government isn't impart responsible for the ill use of drugs...

    Why is it countries who 'tolerate' or legalize drugs and prostitution (IN MODERATION) suffer far less crime rates?

    Here in America, we've had our George Jung's in the movie; "Blow" starring Jonny Depp and Frank Lucas's supposed heroin dealings in the movie; "American Gangster", even then, these movies embellish the truth for marketability, no doubt.

    Point is, if the American Gov was so serious about reducing drug usage, don't you think they'd set a better example and start with clearing out known Crack neighborhoods?, reduce the reliance on prescriptions? and hardcore killers like meth and heroin?

    Instead, they issue a stiffer penalties upon illegal marijuana users, pill poppers caught with prescribed pills, and a "Just Say No" campaign. Much like state lotteries, there are millions, if not billions made preying upon the poor, who by typical stereotyping are the blame for illegal drug usage. Hence, they are in theory considered rogue, maybe even expendable.

    But, our Gov is not stupid, they capitalize on expendable people everyday, anyone ever really listen to "WarPigs"?

    Think of the psychology we all use to market our goods online. From "Sc"Amway to Avon...the machine (greed) feeds off our desires, and sadly, it's a shrewd game of Monopoly and Life whereby, money is the almighty motivator, -not providing meaningful solutions.

    It's a big Mousetrap, whereby despite our differences on the subject matter here concerning 'M', the primary goal is power, control, money!

    Where does the money our Gov use come from?

    Tax Payers

    Has that money been delegated in conjunction with what you or I desire?

    Things like education, re-stimulation of the economy, mandatory health benefits, hire wages to afford the spiraling costs of fuel, or to really create any sense of security, we can afford to live comfortably on the standard wages?

    Why in the hell are we all cranking out hours learning internet marketing?

    Is it because I enjoyed studying for hours upon end with practically no sleep for 4-5 months to finally close my 1st $60 in sales 10 days ago?

    No!

    It's because we want control over our lives!

    The "essence" of FREEDOM! -It doesn't come cheap these days. For some it's "M", others it's sex, some are complete fanatics when they find what they think is the solution. (Look at several religious people, they try to tell other how to live and cram it down your throat, while others just get it)

    Man I could tear into this like an open heart surgery, and still my fellow man/woman would fail to see the strings attached to this matter, or hear the tune the piper is playing.

    Oh, and since so many have stressed they would not want to drive or work with someone using recreational marijuana or be it prescribed medically, have you considered how many little ol' ladies (and men) are stoned out of their mind on 'legal' scripts of "Xanex, Percoset, Darvaset, Oxycodone, Vicodine" -

    Mind you, these are not homeless crack addicts we're talking about either, these people are driving SUV's through 7-11's cause they forgot which was the break, and which was the gas. Last time I checked the "breathalyzer" doesn't exactly test for those either.

    Let me tell ya, I'm paranoid alright, I'm scared sh!#less...because honestly I cannot see a simple solution to the repercussions our ignorance will cost us.

    And need we really wonder why people are obliterating themselves to escape the confusion, pain, and unnecessary suffering?

    I sincerely hope we get it together soon folks, or I may not be so privileged to surf with my grand kids.

    On a positive note, think of all the gas we save marketing online on wind operated servers
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    We should all want some of whatever the American Pioneers were having... Because they are the people we need to be like and have the spirit of in these times.

    Back then, people like Michael Landon, worked the field all day, then came home and mellowed out with a pipe and read the bible to the family.

    I dont agree with naming your kid half pint though - that just aint right.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      We should all want some of whatever the American Pioneers were having... Because they are the people we need to be like and have the spirit of in these times.

      Back then, people like Michael Landon, worked the field all day, then came home and mellowed out with a pipe and read the bible to the family.

      I dont agree with naming your kid half pint though - that just aint right.
      "mellowed out with a pipe" Hmmmm.........

      Just read this article about what happened in Portugal after they decriminalized all drugs.
      http://www.alternet.org/world/151635...happened_next/
      Two things important in it.
      1. Drug use went down across the board. In other words the fear of everyone running around high all the time didn't happen like many think it would.
      2. Our DEA is saying the opposite of what is happening there is happening.
      Gives you an idea of how corrupt they really are.
      Even with all the proof that Portugal has, the DEA, and only the DEA world wide is saying the opposite is happening and totally ignoring the truth.
      In other words they still believe people should be arrested instead of helped for what a sane country considers a health problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        So, according to that study, one of the benefits is that less people are smoking "m." Hmm. I find it interesting that any kind of information against "m" is immediately dismissed.

        I think, however, that people should hear the whole story (which isn’t often talked about) rather than just people who are pro “m” are saying.

        For instance here are some side effects of smoking “m.” (These are real.)

        ...


        1. Even hardcore smokers can become anxious, panicky, suspicious or paranoid.

        2. Cannabis affects your coordination, which is one of the reasons why drug driving is just as illegal as drink driving.

        3. Some people think cannabis is harmless just because it’s a plant – but it isn’t harmless. Cannabis, like tobacco, has lots of chemical 'nasties', which can cause lung disease and possibly cancer with long-term or heavy use, especially as it is often mixed with tobacco and smoked without a filter. It can also make asthma worse, and cause wheezing in non-asthma sufferers.

        4. Cannabis itself can affect many different systems in the body, including the heart: It increases the heart rate and can affect blood pressure.

        5. If you’ve a history of mental health problems, then taking cannabis is not a good idea: It can cause paranoia in the short term, but in those with a pre-existing psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia, it can contribute to relapse.

        6. If you use cannabis and have a family background of mental illness, such as schizophrenia, you may be at increased risk of developing a psychotic illness.

        7. It is reported that frequent use of cannabis can cut a man's sperm count, reduce sperm motility, and can suppress ovulation in women and so may affect fertility.

        8. If you’re pregnant, smoking cannabis frequently may have some association with the risk of the baby being born smaller than expected.

        9. Regular, heavy use makes it difficult to learn and concentrate. Some people begin to feel tired all the time and can't seem to get motivated.

        10. Some users may want to buy strong herbal cannabis to get ‘a bigger high’ but unpleasant reactions can be more powerful when you use strong cannabis, and it is possible that using strong cannabis repeatedly could lead in time to more users experiencing harmful effects such as dependence or being more at risk of developing the mental health effects.

        FRANK - Cannabis
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          P.S. Sorry Thom. I couldn't resist. As you can see this is something that I'm very "passionate" about.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          So, according to that study, one of the benefits is that less people are smoking "m." Hmm. I find it interesting that any kind of information against "m" is immediately dismissed.

          I think, however, that people should hear the whole story (which isn’t often talked about) rather than just people who are pro “m” are saying.

          For instance here are some side effects of smoking “m.” (These are real.)

          ...
          Jon there's so much bull in there I needed a shovel to wade through it all.
          Funny how you dismissed an article about Portugal and what really happened there after they decriminalized and post one with no links to anything supporting their claims.
          The govt. here tried that infertile line here back in the 70's. Problem was all those pot smokers with large families.
          Just because you say those are real doesn't make them so.
          Keep in mind we are mostly talking about a substance that has been used for thousands of years with no real ill effects like these people suddenly claim it has.
          Here's a real fact for you.
          In thousands of years of use not one person has died from smoking cannabis, not one.
          Now look at how many people die yearly from just drinking alcohol or smoking cigs. or doing prescription drugs.
          Here's a link for you. http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30
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          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            I think smoking "M" does kill people. (Because of cancer.) However that could be because people mix it with tobacco.

            Schizophrenia is a serious thing. It can literally destroy a person's life. : (

            And because "M" could be a factor and because it could cause Sz I think people (specifically young people) should be careful - especially if they have a history of mental illness in their family. The thing with young people/teenagers is that they don't understand the concept of "moderation." They often take a high volume of substances to impress their friends etc.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              I think smoking "M" does kill people. (Because of cancer.) However that could be because people mix it with tobacco.

              Schizophrenia is a serious thing. It can literally destroy a person's life. : (

              And because "M" could be a factor and because it could cause Sz I think people (specifically young people) should be careful - especially if they have a history of mental illness in their family. The thing with young people/teenagers is that they don't understand the concept of "moderation." They often take a high volume of substances to impress their friends etc.
              You can think what you want, but there is still no evidence that shows smoking cannabis will kill you or even cause cancer.
              Keep holding on to that schizo thing.
              But if your really that concerned about it, you should be attacking everything that can cause it and not just one thing that still hasn't been proven to cause it.
              Remember in all those reports they said it may or it was presumed, they never said without a doubt that it did.
              No one has ever said it was ok for teenagers to smoke. In fact I made it very clear to all my kids and their friends that they should not do any type of drug at their age.
              "especially if they have a history of mental illness in their family."
              Well really then it should be said that anyone with a history of alcohol abuse in their family should never drink or someone with a history of cancer in their family should never smoke.
              True statements, but apparently not true enough to make cigs. and alcohol illegal.
              In fact if you look at alcohol in an honest light it is much more dangerous to your health and the health of those around you then cannabis on it's worst day.
              Alcohol is a commonly abused substance that contributes to many thousands of deaths each year. In the USA alone, alcohol is responsible for over 17,000 deaths on the roads due to drink driving (DUI or DWI) - which is 41% of all USA road accidents. Unfortunately, more than half of those accidents are caused by people who are repeat offenders.
              Alcohol Information - Facts, Effects, Statistics, Signs and Symptoms
              Further down they mention cannabis.
              n today's drug abuse and binge drinking culture amongst young adults and teenagers it is unfortunately no surprise that the statistics are high. In fact, as many as 17% of the young motorists surveyed admitted regular use of Cannabis, more alarmingly 12% frequently use the dangerous and addictive class A drug Cocaine, and 10% revealed regular use of Ecstasy. However, the greater danger comes from upwards of 10% admitting that they regularly drove their cars whilst under the influence of drink or drugs.

              When questioned about driving under the influence of substances, over 40% felt fine to drive their vehicles after using illegal drugs and 31% found it acceptable to drive after consuming alcohol. A high proportion were unaware of the actual legal limits for alcohol consumption when driving and as a result 8% had already been involved in an accident while under the influence, with a further 11% admitting a near miss.
              First notice the number of users is less and notice the concern is more with the coke and ecstasy. Even the 10% admitting driving under the influence is for both drugs and drink.
              It seems if cannabis was that dangerous those numbers for pot alone would be much higher.
              Every study done has alcohol as the main danger when driving (not saying driving under the influence of anything is safe).
              So alcohol have been proven to cause death even just from drinking and you still think a plant that has never caused death is more dangerous?
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              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                So alcohol have been proven to cause death even just from drinking and you still think a plant that has never caused death is more dangerous?
                More dangerous for people's mental health - Yes. Why? Because it is. I've showed you all the research that supports it. If you choose to ignore it then that's OK. You're entitled to your opinion. However I'm entitled to mine.

                And I'm not going to stop.
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                  More dangerous for people's mental health - Yes. Why? Because it is. I've showed you all the research that supports it. If you choose to ignore it then that's OK. You're entitled to your opinion. However I'm entitled to mine.

                  And I'm not going to stop.
                  Well I guess it is debatable weather death is more dangerous for peoples mental health or not.
                  I haven't ignored your research, in fact I pointed out that your research says things like presumed and may.
                  Remember in all those reports they said it may or it was presumed, they never said without a doubt that it did.
                  Yet you have totally ignored everything I've shown you, proof that alcohol is more dangerous, proof that cannabis has not caused any deaths by consumption, and proof that decriminalization and treating drug use as a health issue is a better and more effective way to reduce drug use.
                  You give one reason and keep going back to it saying it's a fact when all the reports you link to say things like may cause or it's assumed it causes.
                  Even the one or two that really try to lay it all on cannabis say that was all they checked for or that the group also used other illegal drugs. Not one mention of those in their findings though. You don't think it's strange they could narrow it down to one specific item just from asking questions?
                  Your argument is weak on all points, which is you only have one point.
                  And it's not a real good one for making criminals out of millions of people.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                    Here's the thing Thom. "M" is illegal.

                    Alcohol definitely isn't more of a risk than "M". And neither are prescription drugs. So I'm not sure where you're getting that information from.

                    To be honest I don't care if people are smoking "M". It's their life and they have every right to. However certain people are at risk (in my opinion + research) and I think they have a right to be informed about the whole picture of "M."
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                      Here's the thing Thom. "M" is illegal.

                      Alcohol definitely isn't more of a risk than "M". And neither are prescription drugs. So I'm not sure where you're getting that information from.

                      To be honest I don't care if people are smoking "M". It's their life and they have every right to. However certain people are at risk (in my opinion + research) and I think they have a right to be informed about the whole picture of "M."
                      Seriously:confused:
                      Jonathan take your blinders off and do some research.
                      I showed you already the statistics on death rates and alcohol and prescription drugs where much higher on that list (with cannabis causing 0 deaths from consumption)
                      Look at the side effects of any prescription drug.
                      I already put a video in this thread TWICE from a person who worked for the pharm. companies and is now speaking out against them and there drugs.
                      You say you think people have the right yet it should still be illegal?
                      It's good to be informed about the whole picture.
                      Now I've spent over 20 years getting informed about the whole issue, and I've looked at the information from both sides and then did more research on what I learned.
                      What have you done other then look up a website about schizophrenia and a propaganda website?
                      The truth is if you informed yourself of the whole picture and research and verified what you learned you would come to the same conclusion as Portugal did and as millions of other people around the world have done.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                        Seriously:confused:
                        Jonathan take your blinders off and do some research.
                        I showed you already the statistics on death rates and alcohol and prescription drugs where much higher on that list (with cannabis causing 0 deaths from consumption)
                        Look at the side effects of any prescription drug.
                        I already put a video in this thread TWICE from a person who worked for the pharm. companies and is now speaking out against them and there drugs.
                        You say you think people have the right yet it should still be illegal?
                        It's good to be informed about the whole picture.
                        Now I've spent over 20 years getting informed about the whole issue, and I've looked at the information from both sides and then did more research on what I learned.
                        What have you done other then look up a website about schizophrenia and a propaganda website?
                        The truth is if you informed yourself of the whole picture and research and verified what you learned you would come to the same conclusion as Portugal did and as millions of other people around the world have done.
                        Thom. Like I said already. "M" is more of a risk factor in the contribution of serious mental illnesses. And, for your information, I haven't listed any propaganda website. Both of them are unbiased sources of information. You can think they're "propaganda" (or whatever) however that doesn't make it so.

                        As far as I'm concerned this isn't about prescription drugs. So I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up.
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                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                          Thom. Like I said already. "M" is more of a risk factor in the contribution of serious mental illnesses. And, for your information, I haven't listed any propaganda website. Both of them are unbiased sources of information. You can think they're "propaganda" (or whatever) however that doesn't make it so.

                          As far as I'm concerned this isn't about prescription drugs. So I'm not sure why you keep bringing that up.
                          No that Frank site was just a propaganda site.
                          You can't say it's not also about prescription drugs when you are trying to claim that cannabis is amore of a risk factor.
                          That's like the studies you point to. Their focus was on proving cannabis was a cause and didn't take any other factors into consideration. And like I said all their conclusions are based on just asking questions or else they would of had to lock the subjects up for years to watch them. So what questions did they ask?
                          You focus on that one point and say it like there is nothing else in the world more dangerous to mental health them smoking cannabis.
                          Truth is there are many things out there as dangerous and more dangerous to mental health then cannabis. There's proof all around you in the people you see every day and there's proof online if you would look for it. But your focus is solely on cannabis so the likelihood of you actually looking for it are slim to none.
                          Here I'll save you a little work.
                          dangers of prescription drugs - Google Search
                          Gee only 3 1/2 million plus results, lets try another one.
                          dangers of alcohol - Google Search
                          There that one has over 15 million results.
                          Now forget about cannabis for a minute and just look at the dangers of prescription drugs and alcohol.
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                • Profile picture of the author QuickSurf
                  Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                  More dangerous for people's mental health - Yes. Why? Because it is. I've showed you all the research that supports it. If you choose to ignore it then that's OK. You're entitled to your opinion. However I'm entitled to mine.

                  And I'm not going to stop.
                  You mean your RESEARCH posted that itself even stated "could" or "may"... notice how they never said "does"... funny how you missed that part . Not one death can be linked, and they've also never been able to link it to cancer no matter what "you think". In fact there have been massive studies done over decades time showing there is no link to cancer. It's used by cancer patients to help with appetite, pain, stress... AND has been proven to show reduce cancerous tumors in the lungs and stop/slow cancer growth.

                  Funny how myself, nor anyone I know seems to have any issues with marijuana for years and years. Alcohol is legal and way more dangerous and brings the worst out in people, prescription drugs and medicine f' people up more then they help (i.e. funny how there are treatments say in Mexico like anti venoms that show little to no side effects but the FDA won't approve except the versions we have here are more dangerous and in fact deadly in some cases and causing more damage or issues) (or how about the massive amounts of people addicted to prescription drugs).
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                    Originally Posted by QuickSurf View Post

                    You mean your RESEARCH posted that itself even stated "could" or "may"... notice how they never said "does"... funny how you missed that part .
                    Which means my stance that smoking "M" can contribute to metal illness could be true. And that fact that people think it's 100% safe could be wrong.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                      Which means my stance that smoking "M" can contribute to metal illness could be true. And that fact that people think it's 100% safe could be wrong.
                      It also means it could be wrong.
                      And nobody is saying or has says it's totally safe
                      But you have been presented with plenty of evidence showing it not to be as dangerous as many other things that are legal.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                        For the record: I'm not saying that alcohol can't be harmful. I'm not saying that prescription drugs can't be harmful. I'm saying that "M" can be harmful to people as risk. (And, it can.)
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Lol JD Way too funny
    thanks for that
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Of course it should be legal!

    The money saved by legalizing it.
    The money made by legalizing it.
    The proven medical benefits.

    It's a damn WEED (no pun intended) that grows wild!
    I can pick any leaf in the woods and smoke it, possess it, and sell as
    much of it as I want, except for pot.
    I can go into the woods and eat as many poison berries as I want and
    kill myself. I won't get arrested for possessing them, or selling them.
    The only thing that would be illegal would be committing suicide.
    I've made an hallucinogen out of Morning Glory seeds I bought at Walmart.

    I can smoke an ounce of pot and wake up the next morning feeling like a champ.
    If I slug down a 5th of whiskey I'll drop dead. (See Keith Moon, et al).

    How many drug commercials have you seen where the disclaimer says one of the
    side effects is possible death?

    THIS DEBATE ALWAYS DRIVES ME CRAZY! (Not that it's a far leap ;-) )
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    But why don't you get another hobby Jonathan?

    Why don't you campaign against something MORE harmful STATISTICALLY?

    Why are you so adamant to make sure everybody knows the safest alternative is not 100% safe?

    Why does it matter so much to you PARTICULARLY since you acknowledge that alcohol, cigarettes and prescription drugs 'can be harmful'. Why don't you make sure everybody knows that????

    It seems a little anal that you just keep to this one thing - barely acknowledging anything anyone else has said - and then just enough to patronize them, but then you doggedly keep on your same soap box routine.

    And why does it bother me? BECAUSE IT IS IGNORANT - and mostly because you have probably never even tried it and probably believe everything you read.

    It just doesn't make sense when other things are so much more dangerous that you would just keep to this one thing and keep it up and keep it up.

    You would think you are trying to prove a point - but we all know that nothing is ever 100% safe - even fricking drinking water can be dangerous - air can be dangerous.

    So get over it. Try to tell somebody not to overdose on heroin or have a seizure from cocaine. There you may save a life.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      Why don't you campaign against something MORE harmful STATISTICALLY?

      .
      My sentiments exactly. If you want to be an idealist champion... Teach people how to make money... rally against poverty. This is a stupid war, its like fighting against casper the friendly ghost.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Jonathan 2.0,

    As harsh as it may appear, you are entitled to campaign against marijuana legalization, rightly so by measure of freewill.

    However, I can literally 'feel' how offended Patrician and several others here (myself included) are by your bias disregard to see beyond yourself, as it symbolizes a true measure of hypocrisy.

    To elaborate, I too have witnessed with my own eyes and personal experiences several good people lost to 'legal' prescriptions, alcohol, and cigarettes.

    Everything from kidney failure, heart-attack, strokes, Bell's Palsy, shingles, car accidents, mental illness, and overdoses...many specific to alcohol alone.

    I think what Patrician is saying is that it is ignorant for you to support 3rd party statements and theoretical nonsense so advantageously without probable cause.

    I am sure someone in your close proximity has been affected by alcohol, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, and has either caused you emotional, physical, or even mental anguish to some degree.

    Perhaps, that has fueled your passion?

    I lived and breathed all-thee-above afflictions, and I am fortunate to have survived it. I do not seek sympathy, nor pity, as my actions were of my own making, no doubt.

    However, I too 'feel' quite insulted when someone inflicts a bias disregard and prejudice solely based on 3rd party interpretations or 'adopted' beliefs without personally experiencing them or without a vested interest!

    I consider much of what you've written a 'recital' of another persons beliefs, not of your own making or experience.

    How is this insulting? prejudice? and ultimately ignorant?

    Because many who are trying to defend their rights here; find or have found (through personal experience, exploration, and informed knowledge) that marijuana alleviates their burden in some way shape or form.

    To what credit have you (or any government) to denounce another persons right to choose or explore that option?

    I used to be prejudice (ignorant) to all sorts of things I had little or no knowledge over. But, I woke up to the realization; prejudice is the ultimate form of ignorance!

    Prior I made a statement concerning a parrot being able to recite words, and is essentially mimicking intelligence. Don't be a parrot!

    Can you honestly name one person who has suffered any of the ills you quote concerning marijuana usage?

    If you can you're a better man than I, and I grew up table rolling half-ounces with Cheech and Chong album cover rolling papers!

    Look man, no offense intended, but many of us have walked through hell and lived to tell about it. Not anyone will argue; we either loved, knew, or were closely related to a death or serious illness related directly to legal drugs, cigarettes, and/or especially alcohol.

    I personally narrowly escaped death on more than one occasion, not once was marijuana to blame. Most of my near death experiences were compliments of Jack Daniel's, Budweiser, and prescribed pills!

    Go figure...they're all legal!

    Show me one death, one stroke, one liver failure, one kidney failure, heart-attack, cancer patient, or severe mental illness that is in direct relation to marijuana; you can't!

    Last I recall, cancer is largely responsible for mobilizing the legalization of marijuana!

    I don't tell people what to eat, who to screw, what to smoke, or determine a persons value by way of bias disregard and prejudice based on their beliefs or lack thereof.

    You shouldn't either!

    -Yet your entire campaign against marijuana users does just that, and leaves me to question; "How did you acquire this so-called passion to label marijuana as bad?"

    To think...people once swore the world was flat, kinda like this argument...eventually it will come full circle and the opposition will be forced to recognize their ignorance regarding freedom of choice.

    Do you still support slavery?
    How about gay marriage?
    Helmet laws?
    Pro Choice?
    God?
    Evolution?
    War?
    Oil?
    Minimum Wage?
    Welfare?
    Segregation?

    Guess what?

    -The Writing's On the Wall my friends...sometimes I wish I never read it!:rolleyes:

    It's easier to be ignorant!
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    • Profile picture of the author QuickSurf
      Originally Posted by art72 View Post


      Show me one death, one stroke, one liver failure, one kidney failure, heart-attack, cancer patient, or severe mental illness that is in direct relation to marijuana; you can't!
      Bingo!

      Take cancer patients, like I mentioned before marijuana has shown in studies to actually reduce tumor sizes in cancer, and stop/slow the growth vs just normal therapy/chemo itself. Never mind the other benefits it has on cancer patients in terms of getting their appetite back and hugely reducing anxiety, stress, sickness/vomiting from the effects of chemo. I know people whom continue to smoke marijuana after their chemo and their doing excellent.

      And again, even the people I know that most would consider heavy pot smokers....not a single one is schizo or anything like that. The studies he posted said "may"... that's no different then the studies showing there may be asteroids undetected till last minute that could destroy earth tomorrow... chance of that happening, about as close to 0% as you can get.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Survey Says; 68.52% significantly feel marijuana should be legalized!

    Yet, only 22.22% vote against?


    I truly want to Thank-You All including Jonathan 2.0 for reminding me who I am, where I've been, where I come from, and how frugal our freedoms truly are!

    -What a long strange trip it's been; indeed and in trust!

    Ah, what better blessing might one ask; then to feel to have lived as a king in a humble servants clothes!

    Overdue for a Jethro Tull - "Thick as a Brick" long version moment
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    ha aha ha.

    You remember 'Don't BIGOT that Joint My Friend, Pass it over, again'.

    You remember Humphrey Bigot? Yes?

    I mean Bogart?


    Definition of BIGOT

    : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

    — big·ot·ed adjective
    — big·ot·ed·ly adverb

    See bigot defined for English-language learners »
    See bigot defined for kids »
    Examples of BIGOT

    He was labeled a bigot after making some offensive comments.
    <an incorrigible bigot who hasn't entertained a new thought in years>
    “It's scandalous,” he said, in the tones once used by Colonel Blimp, Britain's best-loved bigot, who adorned the pages of the Evening Standard throughout the 1930s. —Nicholas Fraser, Harper's, September 1996
    [+]more
    Origin of BIGOT

    French, hypocrite, bigot
    First Known Use: 1660
    Related to BIGOT

    Synonyms: dogmatist, dogmatizer, partisan (also partizan), sectarian

    ==============================================



    Oh well - My sentimentalities are in 'White Rabbit'

    'FEED YOUR HEAD'



    WHITE RABBIT -- Jefferson Airplane

    One pill makes you larger
    And one pill makes you small
    And the ones that mother gives you
    Don't do anything at all
    Go ask Alice
    When she's ten feet tall

    And if you go chasing rabbits
    And you know you're going to fall
    Tell 'em a hookah smoking caterpillar
    Has given you the call
    Call Alice
    When she was just small

    When men on the chessboard
    Get up and tell you where to go
    And you've just had some kind of mushroom
    And your mind is moving low
    Go ask Alice
    I think she'll know

    When logic and proportion
    Have fallen sloppy dead
    And the White Knight is talking backwards
    And the Red Queen's "off with her head!"
    Remember what the dormouse said:
    "Feed your head
    Feed your head
    Feed your head"
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  • Profile picture of the author pethanks008
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      @ Art72,
      Your post on page3 hit on many of the reasons I'm so passionate about legalization.
      My gateway drugs where alcohol and cigs. I started both before I hit my teens
      I started smoking cannabis at 15, but for many years it was only smoking on occasion as I still preferred alcohol, keep in mind there is a history of alcohol abuse in my family.
      By my late teens and into my early 20's I was a meth addict plus a very heavy drinker.
      Still only smoked on occasion. I quit meth without any help, except for the voice in my head that told me I would die if I did it again. I was still doing many other dangerous drugs and still drinking heavily. Realizing I was committing slow suicide. I started replacing the other drugs with cannabis. The final one was alcohol. When I was up to a quart of J.D. a night (every night) I decided to end that and smoked cannabis every time I wanted a drink instead. Then we went into a 6 month dry spell with no cannabis to be found anywhere. That's when I found out I could go on without smoking and have no withdrawal or anxiety attacks or any of the other problems I had quiting the other drugs.
      In other words I found out cannabis wasn't addictive.
      Mean while the propaganda from the govt. was telling me smoking would lead to harder drugs an I would become addicted to cannabis, both the opposite of what happened to me. That's when I started looking for all the info I could on cannabis, except in the 70's and 80's there wasn't much around. In 1991 I picked up my first copy of The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer. Here was a book not only filled with facts about cannabis and why it was made illegal but it also contained all the resources the information came from. From there I was on a mission to educate everyone who would listen and to work on making this plant legal again.
      My biggest issue then and now (to a big extent) is with Hemp being illegal to grow in the U.S.
      Over the years I've noticed my use of cannabis slowly changed from something I did to get high to something I did for medical reasons. I've smoked for my back pain, for my occasional depression, as an appetite stimulant, and most importantly to help me control my anger issues. Truth be told I had smoked before I wrote just about every reply here, mainly because of the 'arguments' from J., straight I would of replied much differently and you would of seen the anger in what I said and the name calling that would of been there.
      I've been to college twice and was smoking both times. In fact I would smoke before classes so I could more easily focus on the subjects and retain what I was learning.
      The first college I graduated with a 4.0in Culinary Arts, the second I had to leave after my 3rd semester because of family reasons (you can't raise a 15 year old girl on your own and commute 50 miles to college 5 days a week) there I held a solid 2.8 gpa which I was more proud of then the 4.0 before because I was a Plant Science major.
      I was taking courses like Botany, Entomology, and Plant Pathology. Now in high school I only took one day of biology so I had no prior experience in any type of science. Heck the third soils course I took was based on the soils course the instructor took when he was working on his Masters at Cornell U and I had a 3.0 in it.
      So what I'm saying is I learned first hand what smoking cannabis can do, plus I have many friends who smoke who had experienced much of what I had plus other benefits.
      Yet in my 43 years of experience with cannabis I never had any bad effects nor did anyone I knew.
      Cannabis was made illegal based on lies, and it continues to be illegal based on lies, it's really that simple.
      Many people believe the lies because it is easier then searching for the truth and it's hard to admit you where lied to and believed them.
      Am I passionate about legalization, hell yes I am.
      Why? Because I don't like being considered a criminal for using a safer substance then the pharmaceuticals that can cause worse problems then the problem you are taking them for. When I watch a commercial on a legal drug and 3/4 of the commercial is spent listing the side effects I have to wonder how they can possibly be a good thing when cannabis could do the same things without any nasty side effects, unless you call having an appetite and being in a good mood nasty. People should be able to choose the type of health care they want without worry of arrest, period.
      My other reason for being passionate comes from all I've learned about the plant.
      The good clearly out weighs the bad with cannabis, and the suppression of the plant and the knowledge about what it's capable of simply for the greed of some has to stop.
      But any time you have something that can be a benefit to the common man, you will have those 'above' the fold trying to keep it out of their reach so they can keep their control.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Hi Thom.

        I've said pretty much everything I want to say. And, just so you know, I have nothing against you as a person. : ) (Even though we both have strong opinions.) Actually I think you’re a pretty cool guy.

        Art72 and Patrician I may come back and discuss further. Or, I may just leave your posts there.

        Cheers.
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        "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Hi Thom.

          I've said pretty much everything I want to say. And, just so you know, I have nothing against you as a person. : ) (Even though we both have strong opinions.) Actually I think you're a pretty cool guy.

          Art72 and Patrician I may come back and discuss further. Or, I may just leave your posts there.

          Cheers.
          Thanks Jonathan, feeling is mutual.
          Signature

          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
          Getting old ain't for sissy's
          As you are I was, as I am you will be
          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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          • Profile picture of the author Itachi
            That's a topic for me .

            Cannabis can cause cancer ? it's fun because it actually cure it also, i let you visit my link at the bottom to check the videos..

            There are many reasons for the Marijuana to be legalized/decriminalised.

            One stupid exemple is : alcohol is more dangerous than cannabis, yet it is widely commercialized.

            I think videos are better to communicate a message so here is a little collection of video that i suggest you watch.


            Since videos are auto embed here and i have a few to share i made a small blog(to avoid spamming here) to show all my favourite videos about cannabis "truth" i hope you enjoy :

            The first 2 videos are in french but they got english subtitles.

            I highly recommend you go take a look, some great info for you there.

            http://cannabisconspiracy.blogspot.com/ (no ads by the way, at least not yet)

            Let me know here or on the blog what you think about.

            Enjoy .
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        • Profile picture of the author Patrician
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post


          Art72 and Patrician I may come back and discuss further. Or, I may just leave your posts there.

          Cheers.
          ok - let me know when you get to Jonathan 2.1 - better yet Jonathan 3.0!

          By the way no hard feelings from me either. I realize you are entitled to your opinion and to be as closed minded as you wannabe.

          We can agree to disagree. No offense intended.

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  • Profile picture of the author nickynickshow
    marijuana is natural and you probably won't have very many side effects over a period of time vs. the "legal weed" that they sell which is made with all types of chemicals that we have no idea what the side effects will be (although I'm willing to bet those side effects will be bad).
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  • Profile picture of the author MrPolarZero
    Yes, I do KUSH every now and then. It should be legalized because its got some health benefits.
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  • Profile picture of the author nhenley12
    Marijuana smoke contains many of the same carcinogens and toxins found in tobacco smoke, sometimes in higher concentrations. The daily use or intake of one to three joints or 'cones', appears to produce the same lung diseases and potential cancer risks as smoking five times as many cigarettes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Fine - then make cigarettes illegal.

      Originally Posted by nhenley12 View Post

      Marijuana smoke contains many of the same carcinogens and toxins found in tobacco smoke, sometimes in higher concentrations. The daily use or intake of one to three joints or 'cones', appears to produce the same lung diseases and potential cancer risks as smoking five times as many cigarettes.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by nhenley12 View Post

      Marijuana smoke contains many of the same carcinogens and toxins found in tobacco smoke, sometimes in higher concentrations. The daily use or intake of one to three joints or 'cones', appears to produce the same lung diseases and potential cancer risks as smoking five times as many cigarettes.
      Not true at all.
      Smoking cannabis has been found in studies to reduce the risk of many different cancers. It also open ups and relaxes the small bronchi in the lungs dislodging the tars and such left there from cig. smoking.
      But then I can tell you just did a copy and paste from one of the govts. websites.
      Signature

      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
      Getting old ain't for sissy's
      As you are I was, as I am you will be
      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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      • Profile picture of the author Itachi
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Not true at all.
        Smoking cannabis has been found in studies to reduce the risk of many different cancers. It also open ups and relaxes the small bronchi in the lungs dislodging the tars and such left there from cig. smoking.
        But then I can tell you just did a copy and paste from one of the govts. websites.
        Well said, very true statement.
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  • Profile picture of the author lyndal
    The funny thing about it being illegal is that Cops and lawyers always get the best stuff with a wink and a nod from the authorities. So, even though it is illegal for general use, the law is selectively enforced.
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  • Profile picture of the author foxtrot3
    IMO grass never hurt anyone. Yes of course it should be legalized. Legal MJ would put a monster bite into the profits of the Mexican cartels and no doubt save a lot of lives.

    Also hemp, a potentially huge agricultural crop, which grows wild by the roadsides in Nebraska.
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  • Profile picture of the author ibnujusup
    nope.. in my personal opinion, it only bring more harm than good..believe me
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  • Profile picture of the author mrozlat
    Originally Posted by Victoria Gates View Post

    Should Marijuana Be Legalized?

    Yes or no and why.. remember to keep politics and religion out of the discussion per the forum rules.
    Do medicinal benefits count for legalisation? Medicinal Cannabis & Its Impacts On Humans - Health Advocate

    If you agree then you might also like this tee: Let Cannabis Be Thy Medicine : Mullaway | Teespring (funds will go towards helping a 'medicine man' in Australia not go to jail)
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  • Profile picture of the author spancont
    Read a number of times that it causes hallucinations, heart problems and a number of other health issues. Wonder why people are hell bent on destroying their own lives.
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    • Profile picture of the author mrozlat
      Originally Posted by spancont View Post

      Read a number of times that it causes hallucinations, heart problems and a number of other health issues. Wonder why people are hell bent on destroying their own lives.
      so is that all you read? or did you actually do some proper research?
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      • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
        Originally Posted by mrozlat View Post

        so is that all you read? or did you actually do some proper research?
        Did you read this?

        We now have half of the front page taken up by you resurrecting old threads, all on one topic. People here want to discuss a whole range of issues, not one.

        You haven't even added anything of interest to the old ones. Start a new thread if you want to discuss this issue. If you want to just flood the forum with your sig-link, then don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
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        So that blind people can hate them as well.
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

          Did you read this?

          We now have half of the front page taken up by you resurrecting old threads, all on one topic. People here want to discuss a whole range of issues, not one.

          You haven't even added anything of interest to the old ones. Start a new thread if you want to discuss this issue. If you want to just flood the forum with your sig-link, then don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
          I did suggest in one of the many dead threads he's resurrected to start his own thread so he can actually have a discussion on it but I think he just wants to chat to the people that left the conversation ages ago and won't read his stuff.

          Like having an imaginary friend really or talking to a brick wall.

          There are some real weird ones here.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeoKungFu
    Originally Posted by Victoria Gates View Post

    Should Marijuana Be Legalized?

    Yes or no and why.. remember to keep politics and religion out of the discussion per the forum rules.
    Cannabis Heals, Prohibition Kills ! ! !
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by SeoKungFu View Post

      Cannabis Heals, Prohibition Kills ! ! !
      Not wanting to get in the way of you and mrozlats crusade but seeing as she made that comment on 15th June 2011 means you're a little late to the party.

      Besides, in the many years that have passed since this thread began, parts of America have legalised it and I believe New York is now being discussed, then again, seeing as you both joined a conversation 4 years after it began and ended, you may not be up to speed on current news and affairs.

      But if you shout a bit louder she may be able to hear you and it's great fun watching you both chatting to no one.
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      Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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