Journey Of A Warrior Grandfather.

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Well, it appears I may get custody of my grandsons on the 24th of august (3) ... upon passing one more homestudy that is due next week...

But in a turn of events, my wife Bonnie, has decided she doesnt want to do this... and she is moving out.

The homestudy is contingent upon the place where I am now...and so, we spent ALOT of money this week on getting her a new place that is ample. The uhaul will arrive tomorrow, the whole house is packed and as of saturday evening, I will be sitting here in a BIG empty house without a stick of furniture...

And a person coming to do a homestudy... Talk about a really scary call... gotta fill this place back up quick.

So I guess Im about to be single Dad of three boys now... As of the 24th again.

I have really given my all for these boys, I hope this judge sees that. They are worth it. I can still see my son without being with Bonnie, but I couldnt live with losing my grandsons...

Like John McCain "I cannot leave without my men". John Durham does not fail his missions, nor his men.

Lots of affirmations going on about now.
  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Congratulations John!

    I know you are 'up for it' and that you will do a great job.

    I am sorry that it will be alone though -

    How old are the boys?

    God bless you in this and all things always!

    Big Hug.

    Pat
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    • Profile picture of the author chilote77
      hi John,
      that is certainly a tough spot to be on. I commend you and admire for taking this gigantic step. you are a caring and giving person, as per your posts and contributions to this forum.
      I wish you the best,


      Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Pat, they are 2-4 and 6 (Sorry Kay, accidentally typed 9 earlier)

    As far as being a single Dad, i was one for years before I met Bonn, so its what I do. I DO feel prepared, thank you. I know Im the man for the job.

    When things get hard in life, alot of people fall by the way side, but not this one- My eyes are steadily fixed on the prize no matter what comes or goes.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Rich Appreciate it. Especially for the kind words of affirmation.
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      John, I'm so sorry to hear this - my thoughts and prayers are with you.

      If you know anyone who can do a pick-up here in Canada, I've got furniture you can have.

      I also commend your 'take charge' decision. Your grand kids are very lucky to have you in their lives.

      Let us know if there is anything we 'Warriors' can do.

      All the best,
      Jody
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    JOhn,
    I was a single dad raising three daughters at one point.
    Getting to know you the way I have, I know you will be fine no matter what.
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    You are good to do this for the grandkids. Some wouldn't be willing. I am glad you are there for them.

    I owned a photo studio for many years where we photographed families and children, and would run into people doing what you are doing. The grandchildren were better off because of it.

    There was a lady with two teenagers staying in one of our Park City, UT nightly rental properties. There were only there for a few days while the floors at their nearby home were being refinished. I thought the teenagers were her daughters, but in talking with her I leaned they were her granddaughers. She described what is going on with their mother and father, and the kids are real lucky to have grandmother around.

    My thoughts are with you John.

    :-Don
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks. Dont make me cry Jodi. I know I could count on my warrior friends if need be. What a nice sentiment.
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    • Profile picture of the author waterotter
      You're welcome John, and I hope you do have a good cry - you need that. Can't get much more serious than this.

      Let it out, then let us know how we can help. We are here for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Barboza
    You are a real man! Can I know why you are adopting your grandsons? Where are their parents?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Alex Barboza View Post

      You are a real man! Can I know why you are adopting your grandsons? Where are their parents?

      Long story...maybe some other time. Thanks for the encouragement.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    John, your awesome!

    My younger brother & I at 6 & 7 years old was raised by only my grandmother, so I know what it's like being the kid that needed help.

    You already know this, but your doing the right thing, & I'm sure those boys will appreciate you more than you'll ever know.

    Hope it all works out for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    That is commendable. I was just with my 15-month-old at a grocery...phew! (I'm sure you know better than I what I mean). Can't imagine how you handle so many of them. Good for you! Sorry about your present situation with your wife. Your thread about what to name your newborn boy seems like just yesterday.
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    I want to come from a completely different angle here.

    Straight up without my grandfather I wouldn't have a "dad." I know you must be going through a lot of emotions right now, but if raising three grandSONS is your calling then that it what you gotta do.

    I respect that. Just like I respect that I my GrandFATHER took me in when I was just 16 years old.

    Without getting too emotional here... living with my grandfather made me the man I am today and I hope you can impart that on the Grandsons moving into your place here shortly.

    We can be a royal pain the ass, but I assure you we grow up and respect what our grandfather's have done for us. I know I sure as hell do. Best wishes to you sir and I find it extremely commendable that you are taking not only one but three children under your wing... Grandchildren none-the-less.

    I don't know the circumstances. Don't really need to know. Your going to provide an amazing future for those boys and that in itself deserves praise.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      John -

      they are 2-4 and 9
      One fun age after another! I raised two sons and enjoyed (almost) every minute of it. I'd love to have my grandsons - but my sons won't give them to me

      Sorry to hear about the split as that must have been a shock. Those boys are going to run your A** ragged - and you'll love every minute of it.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @kay

    Well a few years ago I was practically raising them... Lol I just got a flash back of my oldest grandson telling my younger one to not touch grampaws computer "Cuz thats how we make money". lol

    I love it. If this turn of events doesnt affect the outcome in a negative way, and I still get them, which I hope and pray, and will never stop until its done... then yeah life is going to be grand.

    Right now the breakup doesnt concern me as much as the affect it might have on the outcome of the courts judgement. But we will push it through one way or another. Warriors dont die, they just come back and hit harder, and they dont leave without their men.

    All should be okay though.

    Originally Posted by BloggingPro View Post

    I want to come from a completely different angle here.

    Straight up without my grandfather I wouldn't have a "dad." I know you must be going through a lot of emotions right now, but if raising three grandSONS is your calling then that it what you gotta do.

    I respect that. Just like I respect that I my GrandFATHER took me in when I was just 16 years old.

    Without getting too emotional here... living with my grandfather made me the man I am today and I hope you can impart that on the Grandsons moving into your place here shortly.

    We can be a royal pain the ass, but I assure you we grow up and respect what our grandfather's have done for us. I know I sure as hell do. Best wishes to you sir and I find it extremely commendable that you are taking not only one but three children under your wing... Grandchildren none-the-less.

    I don't know the circumstances. Don't really need to know. Your going to provide an amazing future for those boys and that in itself deserves praise.
    Nobody loves you like your grandfather, you are the pinnacle of everything he has ever become. Thanks blogging pro. I will raise them to be young men of greatness, and they will have more love than they could ever dream of. I have alot of emotions you are right, but strangely they arent over the person who doesnt want this journey, more anguish and counting the minutes till they are here and everything is as it should be. I cant think of anything else I would rather be in life.

    Thanks for the words.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nanaswhimsy
      { { { { { { { { { { {BIG HUGS } } } } } } } } } } } } }

      Faith, loyalty, tenacity and diligence always pays off. I have complete confidence you will get them.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonGrimes
    Big respect for you John.

    All the best,
    Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    John,

    I don't know whether to offer you congratulations or my sympathies. Maybe both.

    I do know this though ... whatever happens I believe you will meet the challenge with the same courage, intelligence, and wisdom that brought you to this day.

    Wishing you the best, Dennis
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @Dennis

    That is certain my friend, well the wisdom that brought me to this day unfortunately... Im sure had something to do with missing it as a father... and could have been avoided with less foolishness when I was younger...maybe. I dont know, honestly I think her mom had more to do with it. My daughter has a pattern of getting in trouble at her moms... then she comes to live with Dad for 9 months until she feels strong enough to go back, and she goes back and gets in trouble again...

    I think the wisdom that brought me here, was foolishness... but honestly looking back, I see things I could have done better and other things that I think I was the greatest Dad ever.

    Foolishness brought me here Sir Dennis. Hopefully wisdom can get me to the other side.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    John, you are a brave man having 3 boys myself I know it can be tough. But I admire you for what you are doing, I know when I have Grandchildren I would never let them get put 'into the system', I would raise them myself if it was needed. It isn't easy and there will be lots of tough times, but you'll have lots and lots of happy times with them too.

    Sorry that your wife didn't feel she could support you through this and raise these 3 young boys that need a family. That must be a little disappointing and I just hope that it doesn't affect your chances of adopting the boys.

    Good luck, I know you'll do well
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      Lionheart

      Anyone on this forum who has read anything that you have written, and have seen your abundant capacity to help others, will know that you will do the very best for your Grandchildren.

      On a lighter note, I am imagining a bare house other than a computer, phone and take-away menu. Is that close?

      Anyway John, Good Luck.

      Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

        Lionheart

        Anyone on this forum who has read anything that you have written, and have seen your abundant capacity to help others, will know that you will do the very best for your Grandchildren.

        On a lighter note, I am imagining a bare house other than a computer, phone and take-away menu. Is that close?

        Anyway John, Good Luck.

        Dan
        Thanks Dan, this wouldnt be the first time I found inspiration in your words.

        As far as the furnishings... I will take inventory at the end of the day, and come back and let you know.

        So far, other than a room with the boys beds and dressors... My guitars...and clothes... Its looking like its gonna be pretty bare... That all takes up about 1 fifth of the house or less, so its gonna be a big empty place for sure... I think she's leaving me a rocking chair and a handful of dishes.

        I guess I will just be working in an empty house for a few days, then later next week I will get the place filled back up with furniture...

        I can handle it as long as I get the boys, I can sort out the rest of this when that piece is in place.

        Very strange day... Its okay though, I keep telling myself. No time to cry, we have crucial things to accomplish.

        At the end of this day though we will know whats left here.

        Thanks warriors...
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    John - Strength to you. I'm sure the courts will understand the dedication to your grandsons that surpasses those of your more creature comforts serves as testimony to your right to have them with you.

    Join your area's freecycle (yahoo groups). You may be able to find needed items for free to save you money for the milk and meat those kids will need. Craigslist has a "free" section, too. Save money for things for the boys rather than putting it to materialistic items.

    Many would look at this event as a sacrifice - you see it as an honor. You have earned the respect of everyone here. I can only hope there are single men with that extent of honor and dignity for me to find here.

    Godspeed my friend.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      John I've been thinking about what to say since you first started this thread.
      All I can think of is I'm proud to know you even if it is just through this forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    On that Sal, I dont understand when people say "You are taking on your grandsons"?

    When in this world do people not do that? When are your grandsons "extra curricular"?

    To me they should be like your own skin... But maybe its the way I was raised. I thought it was pretty normal, but alot of people have told me that some wouldnt do it... even my own brothers.

    Never occured to me. I just thought , its ridiculous not to do it. And yes its a great honor, if Im still granted it, to raise three fine young men.

    Thank you for your encouragement, and the direction. Im not going to put a whole lot into refurnishing just yet, because I have alot of catching up to do financially after this cycle..., so as long as I have a place to work for now Im fine...and also- If it doesnt turn out for some reason like Im determined that it will, which I hope is not a very good chance, especially with my attorney feeling confident... I wont need a bunch of extra baggage because there wont be any need to be in this house by myself.

    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

    John I've been thinking about what to say since you first started this thread.
    All I can think of is I'm proud to know you even if it is just through this forum.
    Same here brother. I ran out of thanks or I would thank you. You are a good guy Thom! Ps. Your few words are profound and deeply meaningful! Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I guess I will just be working in an empty house for a few days, then later next week I will get the place filled back up with furniture...
      John - thrift shops/yard sales and, in a pinch, rent furniture for two months till you get through the process. Check furniture ads in local classified - lots of good deals.

      Getting a bit personal but want to share this with you.

      My father was killed when I was 2. From age 5 I had a stepfather that was a decent man - but there was never a big connection there. My interests and personality were like my father's and I had little in common with my mother.

      My grandparents (birth father's parents) pretty much raised me and anything good in me came from them. My Grandfather was the only man in my life I ever trusted fully and without reservation. He was the rock, the teacher, the challenger - he gave me a safe place to fall when I needed it. We explored ideas and places and we laughed a lot.

      I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed that everything goes smoothly - I know you can do this job and those boys are lucky to have you.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author cynthea
        John, I rarely visit the Off-Forum, but you're headline certainly was intriguing.

        I'm so glad I clicked! Though I don't know here on the WF, your post requires a response.

        First of all ~ to mirror the sentiments of others ~ you are indeed a fine man. Your raw courage and immediate stepping up "to do the right thing" is inspiring.

        You have won my admiration. I am so glad to see how much support you have here.

        I will look forward to supporting you too. This is a new chapter in your life with the potential for such great rewards! I look forward to sharing the trials, challenges and triumphs. Don't hesitate to reach out.

        Your grandsons are lucky, lucky, little men.

        Blessings to you,
        Cynthea
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    John, every time I find your latest posts and catch up on what you're doing, something happens:

    I am reminded of what good people do in tough situations.....


    To me, it's a beautiful thing that you care enough to raise those kids. The effort you've expended to bring it to this point, can only come from a man who is totally committed.

    And everyone makes mistakes, uses poor judgment and has plenty of regrets...

    But for the people who actually DO SOMETHING in life, that is part of life.

    Coming together with like-minded people for support is part of life, too. Your Friend, Bruce

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks yall. Yeah we say that here. Im only hoping that all goes well and I get the boys as planned. If so, then I will be the grandfather that many of you describe.

    My grandmother was to me what alot of your grandfathers were to you... she is my biggest inspiration in life. The one thing I got from here, to return your sharing in kind, more than anything else was that. she loves Jesus, she loved me BIGTIME, she was my greatest advocate, she was a wheeler and dealer and was always into some wholesale mail order scheme (lol, How ironic right?), she was a dreamer, and a doer, and most of all she taught me this:

    "Hope deferred maketh the heart sick, but a merry heart doeth good like a medicine".

    She said you should always hold on till the very last ray of hope... and always hope.

    Hope is free and it is good for you... without hope our heart is sick, so always have hope. Hope is worth something on its own.

    In my own life I have found that by holding onto hope, you continue to be willing to take chances which leads to good things.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Thanks yall. Yeah we say that here. Im only hoping that all goes well and I get the boys as planned. If so, then I will be the grandfather that many of you describe.

      My grandmother was to me what alot of your grandfathers were to you... she is my biggest inspiration in life. The one thing I got from here, to return your sharing in kind, more than anything else was that. she loves Jesus, she loved me BIGTIME, she was my greatest advocate, she was a wheeler and dealer and was always into some wholesale mail order scheme (lol, How ironic right?), she was a dreamer, and a doer, and most of all she taught me this:

      "Hope deferred maketh the heart sick, but a merry heart doeth good like a medicine".

      She said you should always hold on till the very last ray of hope... and always hope.

      Hope is free and it is good for you... without hope our heart is sick, so always have hope. Hope is worth something on its own.

      In my own life I have found that by holding onto hope, you continue to be willing to take chances which leads to good things.
      Lol, that describes my grandmother that raised my brother & I.

      One time when I was about 16 years old, my tv went out. She took me over to this 2nd hand store & she couldn't find a tv she liked. The guy that owned the place lived next door & said he had a better tv in the house, that he would sell.

      We walked into the house, the tv was in the living room. We get into the living room, & the guys son (mid 20's) was sitting on the couch watching tv & eating a bowl of cereal (I felt like an idiot, lol ). My grandmother told the old man "I'll take the tv". The look on the sons face was like, wtf just happend? :confused:

      She didn't care the guy was watching tv in his own house, lol.

      Grandmothers are awesome!
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    • Profile picture of the author bgonmyown
      Hope...definitely an area I am gaining much expertise. Found this thread researching one of these areas I now feel somewhat qualified to make a contribution. Although I'm more than a year late, I join others in wishing you the best in this challenging event.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Cool guys and gals, my brother who recently married and moved into a new house, has a bunch of stuff stored from his old house, furnishings... he is loading a trailor, and by around 10pm tonight I will have furniture again!

    One good step in the right direction.
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    • Profile picture of the author QuickSurf
      Curious as to your wife though, I mean does she consider them her grandsons still or was it just that she didn't want to raise them? At those ages I'm sure their used to seeing you both when their over, how will you explain where grandma is? Obviously I'm sure there's a lot more to it you don't feel like going into on here, but seems kinda cold for her to just pack up and leave her husband and grandson's over something like this, considering how many grandparents today actually do get custody or at least help raise their grandkids.

      Wish you the best
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by QuickSurf View Post

        Curious as to your wife though, I mean does she consider them her grandsons still or was it just that she didn't want to raise them? At those ages I'm sure their used to seeing you both when their over, how will you explain where grandma is? Obviously I'm sure there's a lot more to it you don't feel like going into on here, but seems kinda cold for her to just pack up and leave her husband and grandson's over something like this, considering how many grandparents today actually do get custody or at least help raise their grandkids.

        Wish you the best
        Honestly, I have raised the boys all these years pretty much... about a year and a half ago, I finally got married, and gave myself permission to let my daughter live her own life...

        6 months later my daughter got messed up with drugs, and they were taken...

        I have been fighting for them every since... For the first 6 months they were placed with my ex wife, who I divorced over 20 years ago...She has the same problem my daughter does.

        I tried to tell dhs that when they placed them with her, but they wouldnt listen, until six months later. when they removd them from my ex wifes home for the same reason they did my daughters...`

        So when this first happened and they gave the kids to her... I decided to help my daughter straighten out her life so that she could get her kids back...

        I moved her to into a new apartment, I helped her get two jobs, I paid her bills six months in advance, I drove her back and forth to work because she had lost the car I bought her 2 years ago with a commission check I made from a liquidation deal... I helped her enroll in college.

        At the 3 month interval (The court gave her six months to straighten up) the Judge was proud of her progress.

        Then her boyfriend who had been in jail, got out, and she moved him into her new apartment.

        For two months I didnt even realize he was there, but she started looking worn out... Then one day her caseworker told me someone was staying with her and she had lost both her jobs and wasnt following through with college...

        This was weeks before the 6 month court date when she was supposed to get them back...

        Mind you, the town where she lives and where all this happened is 6 hours away from me... So when I told her the boy couldnt stay... She decided to move back to her moms hometown with him instead of staying here and working it out... Then she told the judge that she wanted the kids to stay in foster care instead of being sent to me, because she was back in town, and she wouldnt be able to visit them on her scheduled visitations 6 hours away... she wasted the whole six months of hard work we had put in, and all the money I had spent, and worked hard for.

        It was crazy. They didnt give them back to her, and they have been in foster care every since and I have been fighting tooth and nail for them since...

        The last word I heard was back in december that I needed to get a bigger house because they may place the kids with us... and so I did. But they never sent anyone for months...

        Then in may they were supposed to have a hearing...I drove all the way out there and got a hotel for it...and the dhs attorney got sick, and so I had to turn around and go home, and they couldnt schedule another hearing for a month...So finally last month I got to stand up in court, as they moved to take my daughters rights away because she hasnt stood up... and they deemed ME the person that could take the kids upon turning in my taxes...

        And it looks like i will get them...

        Been going through this battle hardcore for awhile now...

        Im severely disappointed in my daughter, and my grandsons deserve more honor than what she has shown them, and the choices she has made...

        So now, all of this has finally turned in my favor and Bonnie leaves... lol.

        (Somewhere in the back of my mind a kenny rogers song is playing over and over...).

        I dont blame her honestly.

        They have only even met Bonnie once or twice... I have been fighting for them every since I got married... and also working alot... Not much of a honey moon for her...Im not mad at her or upset, II understand... She knows Im a good guy, and she loves me, but with everything going on she knows that she isnt my highest priority right now...and every woman deserves to be their husbands highest priority.

        I was a grandfather before I was a husband though.

        We had barely been married a few months when this happened. Im not a bad husband by any stretch, but not as emotionally available as I would have been otherwise. A woman deserves more than what she has been able to get from me this year.

        She is a beautiful woman, and there would be alot of men lining up to treat her like a queen as I had intended too...But nobody will save my grandsons but me.... and this is what it is, and I will follow through with all of my heart and know that I did the right thing.

        All of the other pieces can be picked up later after this is in place. Right now I just cant let it distract me from work, because I also have to PAY for all of this.

        I know this sounds detached, but when you have gone through all of this, you realize that the anguish doesnt bring the desired result, only moving forward and keeping the blinders on...

        In the end everything will be grand if I keep doing the right thing. Bonnie has a really nice place and a nice new start, and she always has my support and she knows that.

        I think we realized this year that we werent totally in love... Maybe I could have changed that, but could I have? Been doing the best I can under the circumstances.

        My last wife I was with for 13 years, and she helped me get my daughter through her first pregnancy, then my daughter went back to her moms, and got pregnant yet again...this time when she wanted Dad to be there for her, my ex ex wasnt going to be a part of it, so I had to walk away from my home in Nashville and go raise these kids by myself. That was 5 years ago...

        I have walked my daughter to every single doctors appointment through three pregnancies and held her hand on the operating table as all three of these boys came out, and I gave them each their very first blessing in this world...

        No. I cant imagine not winning this, or them ever feeling like their grandpa didnt make it happen.

        He will.

        There are sometimes problems that even money cant solve only longsuffering and dedication...

        Which is why spirituality is important too.

        It feels good to get all of this out.

        You see these things have little do do with my ability to create business, but at the same time I have held it in because business people wouldnt understand or know how to separate the two issues... So I have separated the two issues... but it feels good to let it out with my warrior friends in "off topic".
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Best of luck. My Grandmother was the most special person to me growing up and I owe just about everything to her. It's unfortunate she didn't live long enough for me to try to repay her. But because of her, grandparents will always have a special place in my heart.

    I can't give you any advice, other than to keep the boys away from TL's daughter.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Best of luck. My Grandmother was the most special person to me growing up and I owe just about everything to her. It's unfortunate she didn't live long enough for me to try to repay her. But because of her, grandparents will always have a special place in my heart.

      I can't give you any advice, other than to keep the boys away from TL's daughter.
      Lol,

      Don't get him started again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tiptopcat
    In some cultures it is quite normal for the grandparents to take on the responsibility of looking after the young while the parents can go out and earn a living. Due to some much development in the world, the idea of the extended family has been completely lost.

    Children are a blessing however they enter your life.

    Enjoy Enjoy.

    Tiptopcat
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I can relate a little on the drug abuse problem.

    My sister inlaw has been hooked on any pain pill she can get (nothing physically wrong with her), for the last 5-6 years.

    I've had to watch my inlaws do every single thing in their power to help her, & she just keeps on with the drugs. She has been in & out of rehab & half way houses for about 4 years. She refuses to come home, which is totally crazy by itself. My inlaws are some of the best people in this world, they never pass up anyone (I mean anyone, including total strangers) If they need any type of help.

    It hurts to watch family refuse help.

    I tell my wife, my sister inlaw will wake up one day & her parents won't be there for her (both in their mid 60's), when she finally snaps back to reality, it will be too late.

    All you can do is keep offering help, & hope one day they'll accept the help...
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      I can relate a little on the drug abuse problem.

      My sister inlaw has been hooked on any pain pill she can get (nothing physically wrong with her), for the last 5-6 years.

      I've had to watch my inlaws do every single thing in their power to help her, & she just keeps on with the drugs. She has been in & out of rehab & half way houses for about 4 years. She refuses to come home, which is totally crazy by itself. My inlaws are some of the best people in this world, they never pass up anyone (I mean anyone, including total strangers) If they need any type of help.

      It hurts to watch family refuse help.

      I tell my wife, my sister inlaw will wake up one day & her parents won't be there for her (both in their mid 60's), when she finally snaps back to reality, it will be too late.

      All you can do is keep offering help, & hope one day they'll accept the help...
      I have helped her alot through the years, but now that I see that she wouldnt show the same dedication to her children that I have shown her...

      There's no way I can give her the honor of being a day to day part of their life, when I feel she has betrayed them, until she REALLY , REALLY, shows something much more than words, and I dont think she is going to straighten up for a long time if this didnt wake her up...

      I give her about 100 bucks per week right now , so she doesnt starve, she is staying with friends... but I dont know what else i can do for her.

      I mean the lack of character that has been shown is something that makes me feel like I dont even know her... even though I love her.

      She has to really want to change. I dont see that happening anytime soon.

      I do know that her sons will be safe and well cared for with me. I will be their biggest advocate, as my grandmother was to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        I have helped her alot through the years, but now that I see that she wouldnt show the same dedication to her children that I have shown her...

        There's no way I can give her the honor of being a day to day part of their life, when I feel she has betrayed them, until she REALLY , REALLY, shows something much more than words, and I dont think she is going to straighten up for a long time if this didnt wake her up...

        I give her about 100 bucks per week right now (some say I shouldnt, but I cant help at least that...) , so she doesnt starve, she is staying with friends... but I dont know what else i can do for her.

        I mean the lack of character that has been shown is something that makes me feel like I dont even know her... even though I love her.

        She has to really want to change. I dont see that happening anytime soon.

        I do know that her sons will be safe and well cared for with me. I will be their biggest advocate, as my grandmother was to me.
        Right on!

        I couldn't imagine handing my sister inlaw $100 a week, I know she would buy more pills & still be hungry. I would buy her food all day long, but never give her cash. She does work, but most times the longest she has held a job is a couple of months, & the cycle repeats.

        No doubt after reading all of this thread, your saving those boys. The boys don't need to be exposed to drugs or anyone on drugs. Especially the 9 year old, this is a time in his life that will decide what type of adult he will be.

        I knew at 7 years old, as long as I was with my grandmother I was safe, & she kept me out of trouble. My parents were never around, I seen my mother twice between 7 & 18 years old, I hate to say it, but I didn't miss much. I was the one that had to track her down when I was 18, my grandmother warned me to just let it go, I didn't listen, lol, she was right.

        Anyways, keep on doing what your doing, & I hope it works out for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Yukon. I appreciate you sticking with me on this long story, and your input has been very much appreciated as well. I will keep you updated!

    Edit:

    Im changing the title of this post to "Journey Of a Grandfather" because that represents more what it has become.

    Ps.

    If I have any enemies, and they see my humanity, and vulnerability here... and want to say "Thats what you get for being such an arrogant...", then touche' - You got me. I will let you have this one. I dont have time or will to argue my character with you...

    Im going to keep a journal here of this...

    Starts with being alone in a rocking chair in the middle of a big empty room... with a laptop and some warriors... and a deep anguish that the judge might tell me "Put down your sword son, the battle is over...you can take your boys and go home now".
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    John, your post explaining everything with your daughter and your wife, had me in tears. These 3 boys are lucky to have you and I can't imagine you not winning this and getting them. No-one can give them a home like you will and they deserve a good home. It's such a shame when kids get caught up in things like this but at least they have you and so they have a good chance in life.

    I look forward to you coming in here and telling us that you have won and you have your boys
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      John -

      I don't think you sound detached -- sounds to me like you have your priorities straight. What a pretty woman might "deserve" is beside the point - I think you've realized if the marriage were truly strong, the boys wouldn't have been a deal breaker. They are the victims in the drug mess so many young parents seem to fall into.

      I give her about 100 bucks per week right now (some say I shouldnt, but I cant help at least that...) , so she doesnt starve, she is staying with friends... but I dont know what else i can do for her.
      You can't do it - sending her anything helps feed her habit. That's probably what friends tell you - but it's a hard truth for a parent to accept.

      I'm surprised to see how many others in this thread have so much to thank Grandparents for. My Grandmother was more a mother to me and I adored her. Looking at those posting in this thread - seems like a lot of Grandparents did a great job with some of us.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I'm surprised to see how many others in this thread have so much to thank Grandparents for. My Grandmother was more a mother to me and I adored her. Looking at those posting in this thread - seems like a lot of Grandparents did a great job with some of us.

        kay
        What would we do without our Grandparents!!! My parents broke up when I was 5 and my Mum, sister and I moved to Australia and moved in with my Grandparents. It was supposed to be temporary but we never moved out (until I moved out of home). My Grandfather was the closest thing I had to a Father and I was truly blessed to have both of my Grandparents play such a big role in my life.

        A big CHEER for Grandparents
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
        John,

        I didn't want to sound hard-hearted but I'm going with Kay on this.

        Another point of view is that $400 per month of your money is going for drugs for your daughter and her boyfriend.

        If nothing else maybe something like a Wal*Mart gift card. At least with your money she can only get food, gas, personal stuff, etc.

        Just me thinking.

        Joe Mobley

        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post


        I give her about 100 bucks per week right now (some say I shouldnt, but I cant help at least that...) , so she doesnt starve, she is staying with friends... but I dont know what else i can do for her.
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        John -

        You can't do it - sending her anything helps feed her habit. That's probably what friends tell you - but it's a hard truth for a parent to accept.
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        • Profile picture of the author yukon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

          John,

          I didn't want to sound hard-hearted but I'm going with Kay on this.

          Another point of view is that $400 per month of your money is going for drugs for your daughter and her boyfriend.

          If nothing else maybe something like a Wal*Mart gift card. At least with your money she can only get food, gas, personal stuff, etc.

          Just me thinking.

          Joe Mobley

          I was going to suggest a gift card also (here), instead of money that might not be used to buy food.

          The problem with a gift card is they can be sold on websites for a lower value than what the card balance is.

          Example, the gift card has $100 credit, that card can be sold for $75, easy (sell gift card). Or, local to someone they already know.

          The best that could be done is just to have food delivered, since John is 6 hours away. Not sure If that's an option (small town, etc...)?
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
            Good point. I didn't think about that.

            Joe Mobley

            Originally Posted by yukon View Post


            The problem with a gift card is they can be sold on websites for a lower value than what the card balance is.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ant Marshall
    John, I'm speechless.

    I can honestly say you will be the best role model these boys could ever hope for.

    I wish I'd been brought up by someone like you.

    All the best John, from my heart.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Sumit Menon View Post

      You are a great man!
      Thank you Sumit, and Anthony but these days no matter what kind of man you are, the earthly judges are like Gods, and you feel 1 inch tall... its like 10 dhs people standing on the side of the court room and YOU... When I was younger in the music business I got in my share of trouble a time or two... they used that... Then they accused my website sales page of looking like a scam, because they dont understand internet marketing...

      A less than 2% refund rate means I do good business BTW...

      Also, because I was late filing last years taxes they made me file... and so now I have... after all of that , now they want to do one more home study, and that just cost 2 months....

      Why prolong?

      The town where my daughter lives is over run with orphans , I believe because the state gets funds for them, and they share with foster parents and take their cuts... believe it or not Im learning there is financial motivation at the local level for keeping kids in the system for as long as possible.

      So I thank you for saying that, but every man is 1 inch tall standing before a judge, the judge is good it seems, but the dhs people are hard, calloused, and want funding in my view, and they can really prolong these things.

      The only power I have is to daily just keep doing the next right thing, but I do feel good about my attorney. So thats a plus.

      BTW, my brother and I made a trip back and forth to get furniture today and it was an uplifting time... We spent about 6 hours together. He's a professional sales trainer, and also a single father of his three kids for about 5 years now...recently remarried.

      Anyway, he brought me beds and a couch and some other things, wall decorations that he bought from kenya... with money that was earned from a business deal we made 10 years ago...

      The coolest thing was his old flat screen tv that I use to admire, its huge, but his new wife has a bigger one so he gave it to me... Major nice surprise. I couldnt believe it.

      Im very thankful today, and much of that thankfulness is for all of you.

      Now..., just more prayer and trying to do the next right thing in every moment.

      @ Sheryl Grandparents are "Grander" than parents! Thanks for holding us in the light. I also look forward to telling you I have won my boys. Thanks for the support.

      @Kay, I saw a movie where a stranger gave a street kid a 5 dollar bill, and the kid said "Whats that for"?

      The stranger replied "To keep you honest."...

      Its a hard balance. You are correct, everyone says that, and I know there is wisdom in it... very hard to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Congrats on getting the boys, I can assure the joy they will bring will be worth it at the end of the day
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I've heard various things about DHS from several people - isn't it odd that someone wanting to step up and take care of children properly must meet higher standards than the parents that abandoned the kids?

      So many things are so screwed up!
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    John, you are a saint!
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  • Profile picture of the author lovelysue
    Hey John,

    I'd also like to comment on the grandparents raising kids situation.

    1. Unfortunately - I think it's fate. Some grandparents raise their childrens' kids as their own. And there's nothing you can do about it. At the end of the day, better be you than some foster parents. So, good luck with the full custody. You are very lucky to have them. When I was growing up - my grandmom was my informal, real parent while my parents were busy messing up with my life. So - you are really lucky and your grandsions are really lucky to have that opportunity to have you oficially responsible for them

    2. The situation with your daughter - I've seen it before and from my experience (my grandmom "tried" to save my dad from alcoholism for 50 years day in and day out and she did not succeed ...) this is just not going to be a battle you can win. Have you heard of Drama Triangle? Adn there is one more resource to become aware of what's really going on. There's a book by Eric Berne- Games People Play. Really good one.

    Basically - you seem to be ready to rescue and when it comes to your grandsons - they do need to be saved. When it comes to your daughter- not so much as this is her game of being powerful in the world.

    3. When it comes to your wife I have two things to share.

    (1) If I was in her shoes - I wouldn't alow to be sucked into someone else's drama too. Simply, because it's too draining. With that said - 1 year ago when I had a life-sucking experience with my own family, my relationship with my sweetheart was in its beginning. Did the relationship suffer- you bet. But I made it clear from the very begining that the situation will not be forever and I would expect his support when I'm at my worst life situation. So - at the end - I survived the family feud and he is till with me. But at all times - I was straightforward that this is a big test on us, on our relationship - but it's a test and should pass.

    (2) From reading what you posted I see 1 failed marriage, 2nd - wife burned out from the drama around your daughter and a 3rd - where the wife doesn't want to get involved as well. What I can see here is that - I apologise for being harsh here - you could have communicated to your wife now that your grandsons are and will be your top priority. Then - if she doesn't like it - there is a deal breaker even before you get married.

    Also - there's no reason to feel like a victim (choosing between your happiness with your spouse and your grandchildren who really need you). Simply - because you don't have to be. For example me - 2 years ago when we were starting out with my boyfriend I not only had the family drama, but also a full time business, and a full time job. Which leaves - almost zero free time. So - what we did was - whatever time we can have together we called it "quality time" and we appreciated every single moment of it. Then, when the family drama finished (with clever moves from my side and a lot of emotional support from him), I still did not have free time. Can you imagine why? I had a full time baby called business. So - again the relationship suffered because I wanted to be number one in my heart and he felt like competing for my attention with the business. Long story short - he now accepts that I'll be always there when my baby (my business) needs me and that's how it's going to be 24/7. However - I will also be there with him whenever there is "we-time" and no matter what - there's always a way to find time for us. And let's not forget - full time job as well.

    So, basically - raising kids and running a business are not a reason to not be successful in your relationship. You just need to be more creative in order to fit all in.

    4. I think the ghs guys - seeing that you're rsking your marriage for the kids and are taking care of your wife even though you're separating will need to work really hard to find an argument against you. Your actions are not only honorable but they also speak to the kind of man you are and I think will definitely help you in court.

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paula Mae
    John, you are opening your life to challenges yes, but also to the most wonderful rewards that you could ever imagine. I can't imagine my life if I hadn't welcomed my husbands children (and now grandchildren). I would have missed so much joy.

    Taking your grandchildren is honorable and shows absolute love. In the words you've written here, the love you have for them shines so bright. I think John Lennon was right, all you need is love. The rest will come. You done good.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    No victim here lovely Sue... I do however think that pursuing the boys does have an adverse affect on the relationship... I do understand her not wanting to do that... I do think Im destined to be this, and maybe not to be a husband to be honest...

    I do think its a choice between two evils more than you may think...

    Its about as easy for a guy to find a women to put up with his kids, as it is for a woman to find a guy that wants to raise her kids... there are alot of people who want to do that , but they are few and far between.

    Finding a woman that you love who loves you is a needle in a haystack... Add the baggage of three boys on that... and a troubled daughter... When someone doesnt have grandchildren, nor are able to understand why their own children cant fill the empty space in your heart and they begin to feel that you could never love their children the way the see you worry over yours...

    That is difficult for a person to go through when they have their own children. They feel that their children should be a higher priority to you, because you are married.

    Maybe all of that is rightfully so.

    Again, I dont blame her, but I cant help what I feel for my kids either... and I cant help it that yes I will go to the ends of the earth for them, and no cost is too high.

    When we met I did make it clear that I was a grandfather first and I would not de-prioritize my grandchildren. She understood that and agreed. Neither one of expected all of this though.

    Overall, Not to get religious on you, but a "good" shepard, if 3 sheep are lost... He will leave the herd in the field, and go and find the lost sheep and bring them back to the fold. So I think that focusing on the area that needs the most help is appropriate.

    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    I've heard various things about DHS from several people - isn't it odd that someone wanting to step up and take care of children properly must meet higher standards than the parents that abandoned the kids?

    So many things are so screwed up!
    Thats because the Mother has rights to defend... but grandparents have none, so they have to go through all the red tape to "get" rights.

    I would think the fact that I paid both her bills and my own for 6 months and even moved into a bigger house on command...would say that I had been twice as consistent as they were asking her to be, but I guess they dont see that.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Wow... forgot about the utilities... Internet was in her name... So, now its going off, it may take a week to get them back to hook up.

    Gonna be alot of going back and forth to starbucks this week. But thats what warriors do, when it gets off path, you just keep doing every next right thing... and dont waste moves...
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    John, I wonder are you getting any domestic help? Two and four year still need a lot of support. I just can't imagine how you can look after them, clean the house and still work on your business at the same time.

    Derek
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    • Profile picture of the author Nanaswhimsy
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      John, I wonder are you getting any domestic help? Two and four year still need a lot of support. I just can't imagine how you can look after them, clean the house and still work on your business at the same time.

      Derek
      It's called Multi-tasking, Derek, Woman have been doing it for years! :p

      John is committed as all his messages have shown, I am sure he will be able to handle!
      And the 4 year old can probably get into Pre-K now so he would have the morning and early afternoon with the 2 year old. They love to help and learn new things and they still take naps.
      Suzanne
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      John, I wonder are you getting any domestic help? Two and four year still need a lot of support. I just can't imagine how you can look after them, clean the house and still work on your business at the same time.

      Derek


      As far as domestic help, you have to be very low income to qualify for it. I may be able to get state medical insurance for them though, that will help.

      Right now Im just hoping to get them home PERIOD.

      Good thought. Thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        No unfortunately, the harder you work in this country the less help you qualify for. I dont qualify for that stuff... or else I would. I dont have a problem with letting the state pay half my expenses... But they wont, unless Im a "foster parent" which doesnt give me exlusive rights to the boys. It still means they would belong to the state. I would rather take the expenses, and get the states hands completely out of it, I dont trust them after all I have seen.

        As far as other domestic help, you have to be very low income to qualify for it. I may be able to get state medical insurance for them though, that will help.

        Right now Im just hoping to get them home PERIOD.

        Good thought. Thanks.
        John, I was thinking more in terms of paid domestic helper or au pair. But I understand from a friend that it is extremely expensive in America.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks guys. I have determined that I just have to break my work day up into sessions. I have also discovered that I could get twice the work done in half the time if I focus only on the things that matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
    Wow John..just wow. Don't really know what to say but you're obviously a very strong and brave man. I wish you the best with your grandkids.
    By the way as many have already said my grandad (my mums father) was a major influence from when I was 4 till I was 23 (and he died). We watched rugby (like american football but without the padding!) together on a weekend for most of those years and I took him to Italy (his favourite foriegn country) when he was terminally ill. I think in many ways with busy lifestyles people have today having a grandparent to look upto and be there is very important.

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Well woke up this morning... staring at the ceiling... my cieling fan stopped... Yup, no electric. Didnt think it would change over this soon... So. Mcdonalds for breakfast (where I am now) and andthen to the electric company to get my electric turned back on... I called them over breakfast to pre pave everything, so I just have to go in and sign some papers and drop off some money... Thinking about getting a hotel until this cable comes back on... that solution seems best. ...

    Just journalizing my experience for you guys. I believe my lawyer is preturbed at me because I spoke with DHS, and created a complication... I am used to handling things myself and taking control of my situations, so its hard for me to let someone else do my talking, but I need to learn that quick.

    Okay, off to start the day. Wish me luck! We will get to the other side soon and at least my "home" will be back to normal... if I get the kids all of this will be worth it.

    If I dont get them... then I pretty much just lost my whole life, as it was, trying... and you may not see my around for awhile because I doubt I will have the heart to hang out at the forum much for a long time.

    Ps. I also want to say that this is a good reason to work hard yall... because if I hadnt worked hard I would be sunk. A few years back if my electric had gotten shut off, I would have been in a bad situation... so "Work hard"! Very thankful that I have worked hard this year so I can save myself and be my own hero... and hopefully my grandsons.

    So now I can look in the mirror and say "Thank you for working your balls off for me".

    In truth , I have worked my balls off for "them", but its saving me now too.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Okay, electric back- Whew - $300. deposit. These people are killing me lol - Still two more ultility companies to go. I have an appointment to do a web consultation at 2pm with a local photography studio... Im going to try and pull a grand... need to keep replenishing as all these finances are going out. Crossing fingers for a good tight close.

    Ps. Told my daughter that hence I will only be doing $25.00 per week, she is pissed... but she will get over it. I sent her 30 today, for good faith.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Hi derek, sorry I mis understood.

    No, because I havent gotten the children yet. But When I have them , yes I will probably hire someone to help me for 20 hours a week. Already had thought that... Good thought. My brother has a fulltime Nanny, who takes care of his house and gets off at 4pm everyday... She is excellent. Me? I can do alot of work from home so... I only need about 20 hours per week, that will cost about $300.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi John,

      I just read this from top to bottom. Unlike most of you, I don't have a grandparent story (they all died before I knew them), but I did find a surrogate big brother (sister's boyfriend) who became a father figure/lifetime friend after saving me from almost certain disaster as a child.

      I've got my son at my home for 10 days (15yrs old now) after a four month gap between visits. Had some downs but mainly ups the last few days, after working at it.

      Yours is an incredible story and your commitment and bravery is breath-taking.

      I just wanted to post to let you know that someone else found this post and was deeply moved by your words and your story. I am now in the team of people rooting for you from afar.

      Best wishes.
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  • Profile picture of the author lovelysue
    Hey John - tough love is the way to go with your daughter. Speaking from personal experience - some "grownups" continue to live as if they are "children": expecting someone else to take care of them for as long as there is a "parent" who does that: keep them out of trouble, feed them, take them to where they need to go (school, work, work interview, etc).

    Besides what you do for her now is the biggest gift ever - signing up to raise the grandchildren is a great oppotunity for her to grow, to sort out her life, to become a better person without feeling like the kids are a burden for her. Of course - the choice is hers what she wants to do with her live and what she wants to make out of it, but the opportunity is there. So, what you do is great - not only for the kids' sake but for her sake too.
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  • Profile picture of the author hireava
    Great post! Very inspirational!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Man, the days are long right now...and still not long enough in a sense. Lots of stomach twisting today... I have those days with this. Just gotta keep working hard through the turmoil and doing the next right thing...

    Now, with the split up, there are alot of "things" to do...just deciding whats most important in every moment is the challenge. I miss my grandsons... and even if there is only one chance in a million that this doesnt work out, that is one too many chances. That one chance in a million keeps me awake all night...I feel like I just cant do enough right now to put this over the top... Even if I dont really need to do anymore, I feel I must do something all the time... Last night I cleaned my house which was already clean... Doubled checked paperwork, that I have already triple checked...I just cant stop moving...I cant let it rest.

    These days are very hard to get through yall. I have to tell you. Hasnt affected my work... I still do that as always, but it just makes it HARDER ... thats all and I just wish this could all be over and they could be here.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      I'm sure it's difficult but keep your chin up John.

      Make yourself an Honourary Brit.

      KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON ®

      You may like the wording of the 'Courage' poster too.

      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Dear John.

    I am with you in spirit and I can't tell you how much respect and admiration I have for you right now. Following the whole story but keeping my big mouth shut pretty much.

    First I would just like to remind you not to make yourself sick, ok? Negative emotions and stress can definitely have physical manifestations - it may take a while but they do. Just remember you are the man holding the whole thing together and if you fall apart so will everything else.

    There is nothing wrong with thinking of taking care of yourself and I really encourage you to just get away and take a walk or a long ride and do something enjoyable. Even for an hour.

    We are all rooting (and praying) for you and trust that what is best for the kids will happen. Not always the case, but let's hope this will be one time where it is.

    God bless you...
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      John -

      Take a deep breath - now take another. When you've done all you can do - what will happen will happen.

      I think this will work for you but no sense in tying yourself in knots worrying. Yes, I know it's hard to turn off the anxiety but find something - music, meditation, a run around the block - to relieve the pressure. You need it.

      Maybe I'm a contrarian but I think it's a good thing your wife tucked and ran when she did. Would be another blow for the boys if it happened a year or two from now.

      It is difficult to find a significant other who will take on kids, too. That could be because we have to adjust our priorities and look for different qualities in people. Been there, done that - and left a few people because they didn't have the family qualities I wanted - tall, dark and handsome just didn't cut it any more:p

      Don't drive yourself crazy, dude....and keep us posted.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    John, once again, my thoughts and prayers are still with you. I wish I could do more. You have amazing strength to see this through. Those kids are real lucky.

    Your daughter's addiction does not allow her to appreciate anything at this point. It's all about getting more drugs to stave off withdrawal. The insidiousness of that disease is it tells her she doesn't have a problem. It tells her she doesn't have a disease, and it tells her everyone else is her problem, not her. Addiction is cunning, baffling, and powerful. Sometime the only thing that works is a miracle.

    My heart goes out to you.

    Don
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Again... You can only do so many right things.... Keep looking for the next right thing to do.... Honestly it has come down to waiting. Have refurnished the house, transferred all the bills to my cards... Cleaned up, done my taxes, have all my paperwork... Just waiting for my cable to get turned back on, that will be a big plus friday...

    I dont know how I could explain to these people everything I have done and been through for the sake of these kids and how important they are... but I hope that isnt necessary and that they are just handed over smoothly and easily.

    If not for some reason, till divorce is complete... I will go back to court 100 times if I have to and take anything and everything but "No".

    Thanks for the advice the other day guys... I know that it is in the hands of the Laws now, and God... I have done all I can do and released it to God... I can only count on reaping all that has been sown now, and so far, in 42 years... that never fails.

    You sow marrying a wild woman... You reap getting a Wild child.

    No man can escape sowing and reaping. We all reap exactly what we sow, only. You dont do your taxes on time... you reap "Not getting a decision on time..." and you have to wait two more months.

    Its all natural law.

    Patience is my companion right now.

    I think I will read some Gibran tonight.

    I dont think I have ever known anything that is so hard to hold your sense of peace through... but the good news is that I will probably never ever experience anything so traumatic again, and I will be able to get through ANYTHING after this.

    Thanks for letting me share with you guys and gals. I hope you see your friend come out glorious, and not like hamburger meat on the other end! It has to be so, because I wont stop till there is victory.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      John

      What this thread shows is that you will, like the rest of us, make cock ups for the duration of your life yet you will make them whilst trying to do the very best you can for your family.

      This is really all the Judge will be looking for.

      He will not be looking for perfection.

      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author jdjohnson21
    I wish you the best john! Your a great person for what your doing and you will be rewarded by following your heart. You are changing lives on the telemarketing forum, warrior forum and now your changing your grandsons lives. I'll keep you in my prayers
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  • Profile picture of the author Brazilraider
    John,

    have submitted several posts and sent e-mails to have my TMF membership upgraded. I made a purchase on 7/31/11. Can you please have someone give me assistance with this issue. Let me know if you need more information from me.


    Name: Marvin Johnson

    Paypal receipt number for this payment: 1294-6068-7373-5812

    Username: brazilraider
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Brazilraider View Post

      John,

      have submitted several posts and sent e-mails to have my TMF membership upgraded. I made a purchase on 7/31/11. Can you please have someone give me assistance with this issue. Let me know if you need more information from me.


      Name: Marvin Johnson

      Paypal receipt number for this payment: 1294-6068-7373-5812

      Username: brazilraider
      You have been upgraded. Sorry about missing your email
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
        John, doesn't life have some crazy twists and turns? I am very sorry to hear of your the loss of your wife and baby on top of circumstances in getting your grandchildren back.
        I hope you can still have a large part in your little boys life.

        Your grandchildren are blessed with a special grandfather. I really hope this works out for you getting them.

        What you said about dhs and foster care certainly appears true, from my brothers experience in getting his daughter back, fighting for 2 1/2 years what his ex wife caused. It was a nightmare. It does generate a lot of money to keep children in the system.

        (A CASA worker went to bat for him and that swayed things in his favor). Even once they decided, it was stretched out for a while, so that his daughter could only stay a little bit of time at first, go back to her foster/grandmother then back to him, the visits got longer over time, then she could stay permenantly. I hope that does not happen in your case, as you are adopting.

        Don't forget to take care of yourself as well.

        Jeannie Crabtree
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Note to self:

    Stay away from negative draining energy. Guard your energy field and only associate with people who speak encouraging things. Sometimes discouragement may be the truth even, but it doesnt empower you to focus on it, it hurts you and weakens you. Keep being the solution and only talk to people who help you believe positive things and hold your solutions in the light with you.

    Dont let people talk you out of your soul, and your will.

    Ps. To Self... Long battles are lost only when someone gives up...Most people give up after a certain period of time... Others keep comin until they get the result.

    Be sure, Grand Daddy is comin like a freight train.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Note to self:

      Stay away from negative draining energy. Guard your energy field and only associate with people who speak encouraging things. Sometimes discouragement may be the truth even, but it doesnt empower you to focus on it, it hurts you and weakens you. Keep being the solution and only talk to people who help you believe positive things and hold your solutions in the light with you.

      Dont let people talk you out of your soul, and your will.
      John I went through a period a few years ago where I had to make the decision to either focus on only positive things and thoughts or let the negative kill me. There where a few friends and family I had to stay away from till I got it under control. To this day I believe it was one of the best life changing things I've ever done.
      Now if you look at my days, you may say I'm having a bad one. I say it's a good one because I'm alive and have one more day to enjoy.

      With your situation with your grandkids, I've never thought for a second you won't get them. I simply knew you will.
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  • Profile picture of the author williams22
    Guess those children are the luckiest champs in the world !
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by williams22 View Post

      Guess those children are the luckiest champs in the world !
      Im actually the luckiest Grandfather in the world!

      Okay the judge repeated the question to DHS twice "Can you get this done in 30 days" and they said yes and agreed both times... Here it is 40 days later...and I have recieved no homestudy yet, and court is wednesday, and I just now got a pile of papers in my box today to fill out in order to even "schedule" it.

      Hoping that after all of the previous delays my attorney can just bypass all of this and say "This is ridiculous, lets make a ruling and send this man home with his boys today"... before DHS says "We couldnt help it..." and delays this again, because they didnt get the homestudy done on time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andie
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Im actually the luckiest Grandfather in the world!

        Okay the judge repeated the question to DHS twice "Can you get this done in 30 days" and they said yes and agreed both times... Here it is 40 days later...and I have recieved no homestudy yet, and court is wednesday, and I just now got a pile of papers in my box today to fill out in order to even "schedule" it.

        Hoping that after all of the previous delays my attorney can just bypass all of this and say "This is ridiculous, lets make a ruling and send this man home with his boys today"... before DHS says "We couldnt help it..." and delays this again, because they didnt get the homestudy done on time.
        John,
        Have not posted on this one, but have been chking it. You are doing the right thing (which I'm sure you know). I will spare my harsh thoughts about Bonnie and your beautiful child that deserves his dad, regardless.
        Maybe your atty can add to the fact it is 'ridiculous' that the kids can 'wait' with you until DHS gets their stuff done just as well as they can 'wait' where they presently are. If they decide you are "not" good enough, they can always remove them at that time, but their lack of efficiency should not equate to your/children's 'doing time' while they lollygag around.

        the 'system' sucks at every level I have ever witnessed, IMHO!
        Hang in there
        Andie
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
        John, this is typical from what I have seen. Just stay steady to course, knowing it is probably going to be longer than you plan or hope for.

        Be sure to complain that you have not had your home visits. Complain to the caseworkers manager or higher usually helps.

        DHS appears to work very slowly, on most of this. Remember your thoughts on how they make $ keeping the system going.

        Just keep focused on your goal, and your lawyer will help you deal with this stuff. Breathe in, breathe out. It helps.



        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Im actually the luckiest Grandfather in the world!

        Okay the judge repeated the question to DHS twice "Can you get this done in 30 days" and they said yes and agreed both times... Here it is 40 days later...and I have recieved no homestudy yet, and court is wednesday, and I just now got a pile of papers in my box today to fill out in order to even "schedule" it.

        Hoping that after all of the previous delays my attorney can just bypass all of this and say "This is ridiculous, lets make a ruling and send this man home with his boys today"... before DHS says "We couldnt help it..." and delays this again, because they didnt get the homestudy done on time.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Yeah the system sucks... I almost want to start an orphanage after this. Its unbelievable.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jun Balona
    I've read your journey John. My prayers go for you and your "treasures".

    After all is said and done, you definitely deserve a good night's rest..alongside your grandchildren.

    You'll get your victory John. I firmly believe so.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thank you Jun, thats a beautiful picture you painted in so few words...

    I just booked my attorneys hotel for tuesday night... Im in Rogers, he is in little rock and the hearing is in Texarkana...

    Crossing my fingers, praying, throwing salt over the shoulder... Its not a good sign getting these papers only 3 biz days before court... the homestudy wont be complete, but hopefully they will just not give me any fuss.

    Usually I feel I can over come ANYTHING, but really you are at the whims of "attorneys" who dont even have their own business and work for the government by the hour taking every chance possible to feel important and weild their power, one in particular seems to have alot of resentment to carry out.

    On another note:

    There are guys who can look you up online and practically tell what room of your house you are in within 5 minutes... And the government cant validate you with a stack of paper a mile high and it takes them 8 months just to confirm your residence?

    Come on!

    I hope this is the end of it Wednesday. If you dont see me much this week... Im doin the do... hopefully will comeback with victory and the next time I post here my Grandsons will be surrounding me, and I can tell you about how awesome it is.

    Hopefully this will be the end of all this and things will get back to better than normal!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Woke up this morning at the Marriot... Always love waking up here in prosperous surroundings, and goin out into the hotel lobby in the morning in my sox for coffee... Dont ask me why. This is the first time though, that I have ever been told "Sir, told you arent allowed to walk in the lobby without your shoes"...lol Must be a new rule... I miss the days when you could walk around in the lobby with your socks... Oh well. Its still a great place to get a prosperous start for your day, and get in a victorious mindset. Knew that would be needed.

    Alright.

    Time to go fight for my boys. This is the day that the lord has made. I will rejoice and be glad in it. Wish me luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author cynthea
      Guard your energy field and only associate with people who speak encouraging things. Sometimes discouragement may be the truth even, but it doesn't empower you to focus on it, it hurts you and weakens you. Keep being the solution and only talk to people who help you believe positive things and hold your solutions in the light with you.
      Absolutely, positively, the best thing you can do for yourself is to associate with people who lift you up.

      Be on guard against energy thieves.

      In AA, I was taught to "Stick with the Winners, not the Wieners."

      I'm thinking it applies to your situation too.

      Thank you so much for continuing to share your journey.

      You are an inspiration.

      Blessings to you,
      Cynthea

      P.S. Do you have a good supply of positive literature to read while you're waiting around for court dates, appointments, etc? I imagine you do, but just thought I'd ask. :-)

      Also -- when the kids are old enough (and they don't have to be very old), consider reading Think and Grow Rich to them. I have a friend that does that, and the child is setting some pretty cool goals for himself. Wish I had known about that book when I was raising my daughter; however, it's never too late, we often discuss the principles in TGR and how she can apply them to her life at age 28.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    John,

    Well....if you haven't had time to release your stress lately by having a good cry.....don't worry about it......I've done it for you!

    You are truly a remarkable person!

    I am sending positive thoughts and lots of love your way today.....and my fingers are crossed really tight!!!!

    Jacqueline
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Jacqueline Smith View Post

      John,

      Well....if you haven't had time to release your stress lately by having a good cry.....don't worry about it......I've done it for you!

      You are truly a remarkable person!

      I am sending positive thoughts and lots of love your way today.....and my fingers are crossed really tight!!!!

      Jacqueline
      Thanks Jacqueline,

      Yeah I had a good long cry... My lawyer was amazing, but he wasnt on his home field... and even though its their fault the homestudy isnt complete, and not my own... I got put off again until december the 7th.

      It kills me...

      Anyway, the separation didnt hurt me any, I think the Judge actually was moved by it... but the DHS lawyer kept reminding him that he couldn't give me the kids until the home study was complete, regardless of who is at fault...and in the end he had to agree, even though I could tell he kind of wanted to give them to me.

      I guess I dont feel defeated... Just depleted, and tired of being given a hard time. How hard does this have to be?

      I dont understand... but it doesnt matter if I understand, you just have to comply and say "Yes sir". Feeling real down today energetically, and for ONE day, I will allow that for myself..., but Im resilient and there is work to do so I had better get back on my horse...

      Still out of town for anyone reading this who I havent emailed back in the last few days...so internet time is sparse. I will be back home in the morning and start catching up emails.

      Thanks everyone for your support... Much love.

      -JD
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  • Profile picture of the author Andie
    John,
    Thanks for the update. I have been looking for it!
    Believe me, I know how you must be feeling. The courts, etc move in their own world and often leave the people whose 'lives' are in their hands as feeling set aside and unimportant, and have no sense of the urgency that our hearts are screaming for each day. Take your 'down' time...it is well deserved. I'm sure Dec. seems ages away from now. Keep in the back of your mind though, once the home study IS finally done, perhaps your atty can request an expedited/emergency hearing to bump up that day.

    It is reassuring to hear you got good 'vibes' from the judge that you will prevail, so hold onto that and know the road will end at the desired destination even if it is longer than it should be.

    Know you are in my prayers (right after Kim--heehee) and with the power of the Lord you will find the strength and patience to persevere

    Andie
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    I'm sorry things didn't work out this week. I'm sure your frustration level is over the top!

    Did you get to see the boys at all while you were there? I am sure they are anxious to go home with you!

    Christmas is going to be very special for all of you this year.

    Just keep hanging in there!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    Put off for another 3 months - that sucks! And these are the people that are supposed to be caring about what's in the best interest of the children - how do they think all this is affecting the children!

    Where are the children now? Are they staying with a foster family or in an orphanage?
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  • Profile picture of the author Christine2011
    We're proud of you John! Surely, you will reap the fruit of your sacrifices...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Do you guys want the long story or short? If long I will sit down this eve and let you have it...."Sheesh..." thats all I know how to say. You would NOT believe the incompetence of some ... utterly unthinkable for people who handle our children.

    After this next hearing I am going to start a public forum for people going through this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    I was with my grandchildren this afternoon and found myself thinking about you and your grandsons.......

    Where do you find the strength and patience to tolerate such absolute BS????? I am an extremely patient and tolerant person. However, when it comes to my grandchildren, I think I would lose my mind if I was put in your position by the government.

    May seem a little far fetched but.....has anyone considered charging the government with child endangerment??????

    Sorry....I'm just having a bit of a rant. I am a former social worker and worked for the government. I ended up quitting my job when I realized that 'government' and 'helping people' don't go hand in hand.

    How are you holding up????? Is there anything any of us can do for you?

    In response to your question earlier, if you're feeling up to it, I think we'd all like to hear the 'long' version.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jun Balona
    It sucks that they had to delay the proceedings because of some stupid home study. But in that note I truly admire your patience in this matter. I am deeply humbled, really.

    Stay strong kind sir. December is a very long time, but hold on to what you think is the right thing to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author I.M.Retired
    John: I've been following this post and my thoughts and prayers have been with you during this difficult time. Never loose site of the fact that "this too will pass" and that everything has a way of working out for the best in the long run.

    This morning I just read this post by Will Edwards on his personal website. (Will is a fellow Warrior.) I'm passing this on to you in hopes that it will help ease your distress.

    Stress, Worry, Anxiety and a Cure
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew S
    Good luck to you john, that was a very admirable move
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I would think that it's time to take some action in a different direction, John. Go tell a newspaper how frustrated you are and let them do a human interest story on it -- these gov agencies that can't handle their jobs don't like press. I found long ago that telling them you were going to talk to the press is sometimes more powerful than telling them they will hear from your lawyer.

    People are getting real sick of the DHS, which mishandles so many cases that they are more of a danger than a help for kids. They don't need publicity.

    Also - get the name of the person who is in charge there. They will actually fight you to keep you from their higher ups, so it's one person at a time - "who do you work for" I want to see them, get them now." Once you find the person who has the ultimate power to get this crap done -- walk into your local legislator's office with a reporter, lawyer, and several other people as high up on the socio-economic ladder as you can get them. Be intimidating - tell them your grandkids are hostage to the DHS and you want it resolved. NOW. Politicians want their jobs and it's a bad time for them - they love good press and know that if they help you with a reporter in tow, they will get it. They will sacrifice an incompetent DHS worker to get it. Trust me on that one.

    You are not just fighting for your grandchildren - you are fighting politics now. You have to play a politicians game. Publicity is your weapon. You know how to do that John. If I had the means to come out and show you how it's done, I would. Trust me on that one.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    Sal is absolutely right.

    The government often depends on the fact that you are exhausted from jumping through hoops and, therefore, don't have the financial or emotional means to step things up a notch.

    The thing is....it often doesn't take much. If you get the right people on your side.....reporter, local politicians.....they'll run with it.

    Several years ago I was in the unfortunate position of having to battle our health system for one of my children. She needed treatment and I kept getting the run around. I became relentless! I stopped pleading my case and started making demands. I threw their own legislation back in their faces and they had no choice in the end. Within days of going from a patient, tolerant mom to a bear protecting her cub......I got what I wanted.

    Like you John, I hope to one day be in a position where I can help others who are faced with this type of nightmare.

    I may not be in a position to jump on a plane and help you but....I'd be happy to do some PR from here.....seriously.

    Have you been able to see the boys at all? How are they holding up?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Just bought texarkanadhs com, net and org! Good thoughts Sal.

    I will be back when time permits to personally respond to all the recent posts. Thank you all so much for your love, comradery, encouragement and support.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    As bad as this is it turns out that Arkansas is considered to be one of the better states when it comes to social services. I have a very good friend near Clarksville that went through this very same thing with two Grandchildren and a worthless daughter. Nothing happened until she went to war almost exactly as Sal suggested.
    Be happy you aren't in the morass that pretends to be DHS here in Florida. They readily admit that up to 1200 children have been "misplaced". Certainly some of these are teens who have walked away and hit the streets but others missing are as young as a few months old. Foster parents often keep right on collecting payments for months or years afterwards. Google Rilya Wilson, a 4 year old who disappeared and has never been located. The story still brings tears to my eyes. DHS never knew she was missing for TWO YEARS. Her foster parent is strongly suspected of murder but no case has ever been brought. She was later convicted of Identity fraud, Medicaid fraud and collecting money for 2 years foster care AFTER she acknowledges Rilya was no longer under her care. These cases are daily fare here. I urge you not to simply mark a calender till December. Go get 'em.

    Thomas

    Perhaps you should have purchased "ArkansasDHS.com/Net/Org
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    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    texarkanadhs

    This is what separates a grandfather from a "warrior" grandfather... Thanks again Sal. I will use this to create publicity if needed. Just give me my grandsons and let me go home.

    AT Thomas-

    You are sooo right.

    DHS not only sent my homestudy package to the wrong address after I have submitted it correctly 3 times, but now they swear I live in a small apartment and not this 5 bedroom house where Im sitting... but they ALSO submitted my ss# WRONG and are off by one digit, so Im accused of having another identity. It had to have been them that made the mistake... because how else did they do my background check?

    I happened to not have my SS card on me to prove differently... and they are swearing by their facts ... that will be easily disproven, but do you think they will be held accountable?

    Also, the dhs caseworker sat under oath and swore to my lawyer on several hardcore facts, among them; swearing that she knew I lived in an apartment, and not a house to my attorney several times, and that she knew for a fact I was lying about my dwelling.... and he proved her wrong... she claimed I charge people $500 to become members at TMF Plus residuals, and that we dont even sell products...

    She said "Its not even a website your honor, its just a forum" (hence: thetelemarketingforum.com?).

    The SS number thing scares me. Kids can literally be LOST.

    I can see how children get misplaced easily.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      John, this is very typical. It will appear that you are guilty of something and not fit to have your grandchildren until you prove otherwise. This has been my experience being in the family of someone who had to work hard for 2 1/2 years to get his daughter back.

      Paper work will be lost, the visits will not be done on time etc. Everything is as slow as molasses.

      CPS is the real power in the juvenile court, the judge is just the figurehead.


      FOR ANYONE GOING THROUGH CPS TROUBLE:

      DOWNLOAD THE HANDBOOK/MANUAL FOR CPS IN YOUR STATE - sorry to shout, but this is how to fight it. You need to fight it by knowing what their own handbook says they are to be doing. Then you know what you can complain about to their supervisors and the judge.

      ---------
      For John:

      Procedure manual https://ardhs.sharepointsite.net/DHSPolicy/default.aspx
      Click on Division of Children & Family Services Policy & Procedure Manual
      --------

      So you need to go step by step through this and complain about each thing that was not carried out.

      This is how my brother won his case. It was difficult but he studied their procedure manual
      and learned what they should have done but did not. Then fought them in court showing what they did not do to help him get the child back according to their own policies.

      For parents - Find out the states safety threats list. Then you know what you can fight. If you are clear of those safety threats now, they by law must give the child back. He can't help everyone, but gave me this ouline of what to do.

      I am going to P.M. you as this gets real detailed in the how to do it. My brother knows what to do I asked and he will help you. Please get back to my p.m as soon as you can.

      Best Wishes
      Jeannie






      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      texarkanadhs

      This is what separates a grandfather from a "warrior" grandfather... Thanks again Sal. I will use this harshly if I need it. If not, just give me my grandsons and let me go home.

      AT Thomas-

      You are sooo right.

      DHS not only sent my homestudy package to the wrong address after I have submitted it correctly 3 times, but now they swear I live in a small apartment and not this 5 bedroom house where Im sitting... but they ALSO submitted my ss# WRONG and are off by one digit, so Im accused of having another identity. It had to have been them that made the mistake... because how else did they do my background check?

      I happened to not have my SS card on me at the moment to prove differently... and they are swearing by their facts ... that will be easily disproven, but do you think they will be held accountable?

      Also, the dhs caseworker sat under oath and swore to my lawyer on several hardcore facts, among them; swearing that she knew I lived in an apartment, and not a house to my attorney several times, and that she knew for a fact I was lying about my dwelling.... and he proved her wrong, and the judge said NOTHING... she claimed I charge people $500 to become members at TMF, and that we dont even sell products...

      She said "Its not even a website your honor, its just a forum" (hence: thetelemarketingforum.com?).

      The SS number thing scares me. Kids can literally be LOST.

      I can see how children get misplaced easily.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    Maybe your lawyer should have asked how long the caseworker had actually worked for DHS. The turnover rate here is horrible. Average worker lasts about 8 months. Part of our system is privatized which has lead to longer hours, poorer pay and bigger case loads.

    Thomas
    Signature
    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    John - this can't be handled completely online. Get offline, too - but Huffington post likes stuff like this --- still Offline, too John.

    Doesn't matter if the Judge said anything or not - you need to file suit against that bimbo bitch for perjury and any form of malicious prosecution you can get her for. You should not have to pay to press charges - she broke the law. That's not a civil suit. You're lawyer will know the term - press charges both against the DHS and personal charges against the bitch that lied on the stand. Then tell the press about it. SEE your local legislator and let him know that he can walk away with great rapport - or he can struggle for re-election.

    BTW - if you have reciepts - and get mail there - you shouldn't have to argue with some she-bitch-from-hell about where you live.

    I did this with a school system. It's not as hard as it sounds.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I changed it Sal... check it now. It will continue to evolve as I become clear.

    Still, I will do it offline too and talk to my lawyer. Im going to copy and paste your words and email them to him.

    Ps. Im also thinking of sending an article and submit it to their the texarkana gazzette writer who has been publicizing the Krantz case. This isnt the first time a dhs official has lied under oath. The head of DHS is under investigation right now in that town.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andie
    John,
    You might try a sideways attack as well.....find your local district's city council member and call him/her. Explain the situation and how the 'system' has dropped the ball; the steps you have taken for the express purpose of getting the kids and tell them you need some serious support/action on the situation. You might toss in that if they can not or will not step up and guide you in resolution you will be glad to include their name in your public effort to clear it up.
    City council members are elected officials that are supposed to be advocates for the citizens; so their job is to help you fight the 'establishment' failures and they do Not like bad publicity.

    just a thought I had
    Hang in there Dear!!
    Andie
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  • Profile picture of the author Jake Gray
    Wow John...

    Absolutely unbelievable.

    You are one strong person...

    Your grandsons are so lucky to have a grandpa like you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      After this next hearing I am going to start a public forum for people going through this.
      Perhaps this will be one of those moments you'll be able to look back on and see that a "mysterious hand" led you into this purpose. Your experience and unique abilities may be a blessing to others in time.

      I haven't commented much in this thread for personal reasons, but I have followed it and I want you to know you've been a shining exemplar of fortitude in the face of tyranny.

      Guys like you ... you're what's right in this world.
      Signature

      Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Dennis... I really do intend to respond to the individual posts here by the way , there alot of questions and comments from people who have been so supportive and deserve an individual response. You guys have been amazing to me. I am humbled.

    My attorney adviced me today to hold my horses on the google bomb because he got them to verbally agree in court on record that if ABC are taken care of... then the kids will be placed here ...So he told me to keep my cool and go through the steps.

    He is a good man, and even gave me a bible verse to use as an affirmation. He says that in his career he knows DHS officials to be cynical and not compassionate even where its appropriate to be compassionate... When the homestudy is complete, it will be clear that the case worker "made up answers" on the stand without a shadow of doubt.

    So more patience is being required.

    I have never been more humble in my life... Just when you think you are invincible... My instinct is to fight... But Im seeing that it isnt time to be ten foot tall and bullet proof right now... I have to hold my peace and go through the motions.

    Looking forward to putting up that Christmas tree...

    Ps. Sal, I know your spirit, and your heart and intentions, and I agree with you, but my lawyer put the brakes on me today... Trust me, if this doesnt work I am going to BURY their site and make every case worker in this into an overnight celebrity... People DO have power. As stated, Im thinking of starting a forum for this that can grow and create awareness for all of the hurting families...

    I see the need for DHS, but I also see that TOO LARGE a % of the people working in the system that I have witnessed are calloused, and they are not careful with peoples lives, and I am unfortunately (the more I study) seeing how people get hurt by them.

    I think there are some cases where this is needed, but the "average" stay for a child in foster care here is 22 months....for that to be the "average"... seems a little extreme. Only 48% ever make it back home from the statistics I have read.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    John, I think your lawyer has given you good advice. I thought about suggesting holding off on the forum and other provacative moves, but it was more out of concern for giving the DHS any extra motivation to be against you rather than, as your lawyer said, having them where you want. What Sal said made sense too, so I decided it best to remain quiet.
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ps. To Sheryl and Jimbo (Dan), the kids are with a foster family at this time, but they have been separated twice already. The last time they were separated, one foster parent kept hearing my younger grandson talk about "Vincent" and they couldnt figure out who he was talking about (Its my oldest grandson, who I accidentally wrote was 9 earlier, typo, he is six) , anyway, they had been placed in separate homes and the foster families were not made aware that they even had brothers out there from what I understand. This foster family, the latest one, where they have been for 5 months, finally figured out that my younger grandson was talking about his brother... and they went and sought out the other families and brothers proactively, and they brought the kids back together in their home. So I am thankful for that, they seem like good people. But the way it was handled.... Again, I often feel consumed lately by the burden of knowing that while the system can never be perfect, the people within it should really be alot more accountable... If it werent for the compassion of that family, my Grandsons would still be seperated.

    I hurt the other day because I recieved word that my grandson actually has been asking the family if they will adopt him, because he has been promised so much and let down... he doesnt even believe he is going to come home anymore, and he wants to know he has a family.

    Grandpa is comin Boy... I promised and I wont let you down, wherever you are, I will place my life on that promise.
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    • Profile picture of the author Deidra Renee
      John, first I would like to apologize for congratulating you on getting your grandkids in an earlier PM that I sent you a while ago, I hadn't found this thread yet, just saw a quick post that you were getting them without seeing the rest of the thread..Anyway, I think it is absolutely amazing that you are going through this and still helping OTHERS!! You even sent me a PM checking up on me with everything that you're dealing with. You're still giving out valuable information that could possibly change people's lives with having all this deal with. I personally probably could not do it. I commend you more than you know! You've even helped my business within the last few days and I had no idea what you were going through. But, I really believe that everything will work out in your favor. As you said, you always reap what you sow! You are a very giving person and in *His* eyes, it is better to give than to receive, but when you give, he always gives us something back..even more than what we gave..so just wait it out and make sure those grandkids have THE BEST CHRISTMAS EVER!!
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Deidra Renee View Post

        ... I personally probably could not do it.
        You'd think that, but I guess sometimes helping and posting and working and writing and selling websites... Is what actually keeps you from going insane.

        Also taking more advanced guitar lessons online (Very cool results so far). I figure my grandsons will love these new licks! lol Im going to play them to sleep every night... I 'already" play "most" people to sleep. (ROTFLMAO).

        Deidra,

        When I split up with my last wife of 14 years... Man I was really GAGA over this woman and it did not wane over the years, I still loved her like the first day I met her, and it hurt bigtime... I wasnt so detached as I am now...

        But it made me obsessed with work... My telemarketers and seeing them become champions daily became my saving grace, and I put everything into it to keep from going insane... and we broke 20 year records and brought in 7 million dollars that year (no I didnt own the call center unfortunately, just the GM) but those were some of the best speeches I ever gave that year.

        Sometimes personal hardship is dealt with best by just putting yourself out there so much that you dont think about it... and by the end of the day you are worn out...and you NEED to be.

        Trust me, if it werent for my work and these forums I would be bouncing off the walls right now, and honestly I really AM, but just trying to stay busy and be productive... I have to stay obsessed. Alot of what drives me is teaching and helping others succeed... Not that Im a guru, but as a call center manager, having seen the impact it has on hundreds of young people who would otherwise not know how to break out and become more... This is a good passion.

        Its not as easy as it appears honestly... But in the mean time you do what you do. I know sulking like I have for the past two months isnt what I need to be doing for the next two... Might as well put yourself out there and go balls to the wall... itll make a better homecoming than being depressed and going broke and out of business.

        Ps. Honestly, Im tempted to be depressed all the time right now, but that would not be the answer..., and my lawyer says the next one should bring the boys home...so I need to get healthy and ready...and resist the temptation to feel defeated.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    John - I understand. I hope your lawyer is as effectual as he claims and that you have a good long string of charges against them for the DA when this is over.

    My question is, under the circumstances, why hasn't your lawyer gotten the time moved up?

    It may behoove you to download that manual Jeannie gave the link to -- and maybe consult her brother.

    Do not put your faith 100% in a lawyer unless you understand 100% of the situation. Make sure you are asking him the right questions - and that he is giving the right answers. If he is - run with him. If not - figure it out real fast.

    If it were a doctor, you would not just blindly trust without investigating yourself - treat this the same way. Just cover your bases and make sure that lawyer is swinging hard enough to bring them all home.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Oh trust me Sal, I don disregard Jeannies most significant and jaw dropping post... and will be following up. This deserves more than a shallow response... Im going to actually respond to this when Im in a space to give it the attention it deserves more toward the evening...

    Jeannie, thank you for this awesome contribution... I would love to have you become active in this planned forum later. We may be really able to help some people. This is amazing what you have shared.

    Sal my attorney came by referral and I know him personally... So he takes this personal...

    I failed to mention that, but yeah, I knew this guy back when I was a teen, and I reached out to him...who knew he would grow up and become my defender.

    BTW, the term ________ dhs already pulls up our .net on top of dhs's site.

    Im going to cool it on that talk though because we dont need THIS thread coming up for the term too.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      John, I find myself too emotional on this subject to be active in a forum about it. Many children are held and adopted out needlessly.

      I get stressed. My blood pressure goes up. My family, not just my brother went through so much with CPS and had to refute so much.

      Thanks for your offer though.

      I will look for your p.m. later.

      Jeannie


      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Oh trust me Sal, I don disregard Jeannies most significant and jaw dropping post... and will be following up. This deserves more than a shallow response... Im going to actually respond to this when Im in a space to give it the attention it deserves more toward the evening...

      Jeannie, thank you for this awesome contribution... I would love to have you become active in this planned forum later. We may be really able to help some people. This is amazing what you have shared.

      Sal my attorney came by referral and I know him personally... So he takes this personal...Also has an excellent track record... Back when I was in my teens I had a band and he was a little runt about 4 years younger than me who wanted to play so bad... he played trombone in his school band, and so, I felt for him and let him in the band... and he never forgot that... Well, I havent seen him in 25 years probably, but he grew up and became a bigtime lawyer in little rock who specializes in this... When I heard that I went straight out and looked him up... and he is so defensive for me its not funny. The guy has love for me, and he didnt take kindly to hearing the dhs talk bad about me...

      So, I failed to mention that, but yeah, I knew this guy back when I was a teen, and I reached out to him...who knew he would grow up and become my defender.

      BTW, the term texarkana dhs already pulls up our .net on top of dhs's site.

      Im going to cool it on that talk though because we dont need THIS thread coming up for the term too.

      I think we arent pushing the date because that would mean we would have to go before a different judge, and this one is already swayed toward giving them to me. Trust me it isnt easy waiting... Im just trying to insure victory. Its hard to know what the right thing to do is at all times... But hopefully Jeannies contribution will offer more insight.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Sorry Jeannie, I had to back off for a few days and process all of this, and try to re evaluate my position, sort of get my second wind, because I know there is a long road ahead... Getting back on the horse though. You are right, this is a very heavy subject.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
      Still thinking of you John and your journey ahead. I'm sure that you'll know it was worth it when you get your grandkids.

      Rich
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      Not a problem John. It is heavy.

      Please take care of yourself. I found I had to do things such as walks and exercise to burn the stress off, as It can really build up. Prayer helped tremendously.

      See if you can set up visits at the CPS center to see all your grandchildren regularly, if you are not. (parents can see kids regularly, As an aunt my visit got cut back to 15 or maybe it was 30 minutes once a month... 120 miles round trip for 15 minutes.) Many people are not told this and visits are seen in a good light, especially if you are trying to get them. You can also send letters and postcards. Talk to the caseworker about it, if there is flak, check with the supervisor or better yet, have you lawyer make a formal inquirey.

      (You have to be careful what you say to the grandkids - not come out and talk about "the Problem" directly. My brother just kept saying to his daugher that he was trying to fix the big problem, without going into any details about why she was in this situation. They wanted us to be happy and no crying as well - hard to do sometimes, act as if nothing is wrong...)

      Put much of what you want to say, requests, etc. in writing and submit it to the front desk. Run everythng by your lawyer, as what you say will get twisted up and misquoted.


      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Sorry Jeannie, I had to back off for a few days and process all of this, and try to re evaluate my position, sort of get my second wind, because I know there is a long road ahead... Getting back on the horse though. You are right, this is a very heavy subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Looked out the door today, its raining in sheets. So hard it feels like its going to collapse the whole house....just a RUSHING kind of rain. I have doors and windows open letting the positive ions in. I love this stuff.... But it means so little without the boys to share with.... My thoughts this morning are "Can they really do this", are we going to really miss another thanksgiving, and they really dont have feelings about that?

    Sure everyones looking out for the best interest of the children, but do they really think they have more interest than I do?

    I hate DHS. They really are a bunch of cynical spiteful people with no feelings from what I have observed. If you hurt their ego, they will hurt you back spitefully. I feel thats the real reason the kids arent here... Because I pushed someones ego the wrong way and am getting the wrath of it.

    Anyway, wish I could watch this rain today with the boys... Those are the thoughts of this morn.

    I havent been on this thread much because I dont want to raise it in the search engines, also because it seems so pointless to type news when the next hearing isnt for months.... but its a "journal" so Im am going to journal how I feel throughout this process.

    This is crazy, I dont need 5 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms... Im here waiting for my boys. Every day, I just hope and pray.... and I think of how they are going to know that I held onto every last ray of hope and I didnt give up. Sometimes I cant help but think though,. that these DHS people cant give back what they have taken...and it scares me that if you let them, they will take it all, and have ZERO conscious about it.... I feel its clear that keeping children serves some purpose for them. Its a night mare, and I hope next time its over.

    Its rediculous to me that a government rep can sit under oath and get caught lying on a stand and swearing that her facts are truth, then be cross examined and be "proven" to be lying, and completely fabricating her facts...... SERIOUSLY CAUGHT RED HANDED...and still be left in charge of hundreds of families children not losing their position. Thats what happened in court.

    Its amazing that they have the audacity to question my competence for raising three boys after witnessing that from their own caseworker, and leaving her in charge of HUNDREDS of children. That amazes me.

    I have no wife, I have nothing holding me back... If they dont give these kids back on this next one, I will drop everything else in my life and make a FULLTIME job out of attacking them.

    I will not allow this to happen. I will not allow them to adopt out my grandchildren un necessarily.

    Those are the thoughts this morning...

    I will not leave it alone. I will retrieve my men.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      John, when you are ready p.m. me. There are ways to refute the disinformation given in court legally in CPS's own system. You get this in in the next couple weeks, and it has the chance to propegate out to all legal parties before your next hearing. In our case, it seemed to take about 6 weeks.

      It is good to refute all disinformation each time it comes up. If you don't it is likely drug out at the next hearing, even though you tried to correct it verbally. Other wise, you may have to refute that at the next hearing again and that is all you get done.

      Just gather the info my brother will share with you at this point. You don't have to do anything if you don't want to and can run it by your lawyer first.

      I won't say too much, but I do have some opinions about all this, for sure. I was told by an assitant D.A, with the case worker sitting in the room, that they just set a lot of the laws aside, as they get in the way.

      You cannot expect the majority of them to play fair, there is a lot in it for them plus a lot of ego is at play.

      Be informed, destress and pace yourself. A thought - If you don't need that big of a house, now that your family size has shifted, why keep it, if you are not buying it? Not to be nosy, but if your grandkids can room together, you would only need a three bedroom place now, the two younger staying together in one room? Easier on the pocketbook and less upkeep. You are going to be a busy man when you get them back.

      Also, is there a person from CASA looking into their case? Contact them if not. They are independent from CPS, will do their own evaluation and have a say in court, they sit right at the table with everyone else. This helped my brother get his daughter back because they finally decided he was the parent she needed to go to and he was fit to do the parenting.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Jeannie Crabtree View Post

        John, when you are ready p.m. me. There are ways to refute the disinformation given in court legally in CPS's own system. You get this in in the next couple weeks, and it has the chance to propegate out to all legal parties before your next hearing. In our case, it seemed to take about 6 weeks.

        It is good to refute all disinformation each time it comes up. If you don't it is likely drug out at the next hearing, even though you tried to correct it verbally. Other wise, you may have to refute that at the next hearing again and that is all you get done.

        Just gather the info my brother will share with you at this point. You don't have to do anything if you don't want to and can run it by your lawyer first.

        I won't say too much, but I do have some opinions about all this, for sure. I was told by an assitant D.A, with the case worker sitting in the room, that they just set a lot of the laws aside, as they get in the way.

        You cannot expect the majority of them to play fair, there is a lot in it for them plus a lot of ego is at play.

        Be informed, destress and pace yourself. A thought - If you don't need that big of a house, now that your family size has shifted, why keep it, if you are not buying it? Not to be nosy, but if your grandkids can room together, you would only need a three bedroom place now, the two younger staying together in one room? Easier on the pocketbook and less upkeep. You are going to be a busy man when you get them back.

        Also, is there a person from CASA looking into their case? Contact them if not. They are independent from CPS, will do their own evaluation and have a say in court, they sit right at the table with everyone else. This helped my brother get his daughter back because they finally decided he was the parent she needed to go to and he was fit to do the parenting.
        Thanks Jeanie, I will be following up shortly. You are a true gem, and every word you are saying sounds familiar. If you dont have your ducks in a row when you go to court you only get one small thing done at a time and they put aside the rest till the next hearing when that one thing has been accomplished. I know you have been through this by your choices of words.

        I have to stay in this house because the home study was heavily contingent upon me living where I say I lived. Since they missed the first two opportunities to do the homestudy and they still havent done it yet, and they were given misinformation about where I lived...a big deal has been made about residence confirmation and so I have to stay here to prove I havent been lying all year and just did a bait and switch... Sad i know.

        May not have told you this, but I used to have a 3 bedroom place, I got this last year because DHS told me a year ago that they adviced a bigger home. Thats they only reason. Is that messed up or what?

        Now its been over a year since I complied with their advice, and they havent even come to do the homestudy yet.

        Honestly the home is perfect, I love it. Just wish the boys were running around in it and the rooms I have prepared for them were filled with the sounds of them playing. Not to get suddenly emotional on ya. There. It passed.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Great phone calls with Jeanie and her Brother David today. Wonderful people with great hearts. Truly Godsends. Thank you Jeannie, and David if you are reading. You two are close to my heart. Thank you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
            John, you are most welcome and thanks for the compliment about coming from the heart. Glad I could pass on a little info and David could help you.

            Keep your chin up. Now you have the info you need to move foreward. I have a good feeling about this.


            Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

            Great phone calls with Jeanie and her Brother David today. Wonderful people with great hearts. Truly Godsends. Thank you Jeannie, and David if you are reading. You two are close to my heart. Thank you.
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            • Profile picture of the author cynthea
              Little bit of a threadjack here...

              I haven't been on WF for awhile, so it was good to catch up on where you're at with the system John, although it totally sucks. JEANNIE -- this is to you ~ thank you for helping John!! We're all in this together and I'm so glad you have real life experience you can share in support of John being reunited with his little men.

              John, hang in there. Do not give up.

              Best to all,
              Cynthea
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  • Profile picture of the author autoforex
    John, your post explaining everything with your daughter and your wife, had me in tears. These 3 boys are lucky to have you and I can't imagine you not winning this and getting them. No-one can give them a home like you will and they deserve a good home. It's such a shame when kids get caught up in things like this but at least they have you and so they have a good chance in life.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Cynthea,

    Thank you my friend. Sometimes the way a person puts something can cause it to have so much more impact. Your choice of words here moved me...in an empowering way. Great love to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeff Williams
      John,

      I finally finished reading this entire thread. Whew. Brother, I just do not have the words. Speechless. I know my brother is going through something similar right now. (two girls tho, 11 & 14) And it's killing him. But he's strong and determined, as I know you are. Hang in there, bro. It will be a good Christmas.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    I find myself thinking of you and your boys often.

    Your situation is heartbreaking and infuriating.

    I admire your strength and patience......I can't even fathom having to fight for my own grandchildren.

    I check back here often so thanks for keeping us updated.

    I have the kleenex box ready for the day your boys come home!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Just leave it John. You don't sound crazy, however - you do sound like they are getting to you at a level you can't let them get to. You sound like you're breaking. Don't do it. Stand back - take wind. Hold tight and center yourself.

    I'll be sending you a pm in just a minute. Read it.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Sal... When you are this good at bouncing back... its okay to look crazy here and there I guess... you can bounce back. I wont lie, I do break in moments, and its hard to admit because Im very proud of being strong most of the time... I saw a bird literally swoop down out of a tree and attack my cat and risk her life to get him away from the tree... and he wasnt even bothering her, it was her instincts, even though there was no harm, he cant climb the tree, but he could have grabbed her out of the air by her making that move and she would have been a goner for taking an unnecessary risk.

    And I saw it as an analogy...

    Thats the kind of thing I feel now, what that bird felt. Not sure of the right thing sometimes, because i cant tell if Im being rational or if Im just wanting to attack because I am being emotional... Is holding your peace right? is attacking right? Is it better to attack at a more strategic juncture...?

    If I attack are they going to get me through that? Like the cat could have gotten the bird who attacked unnecessarily, and potentially was making a fatal mistake?

    Im going to bed. Maybe this will look different tomorrow. I know I will be cringing bigtime if I re read this post in the morn, but it dont matter... This is a big picture, it wouldnt be the first time someone cringed at their own posts. Im a warrior and I will be ten years from now...so big deal, this is our turf right? (Thanks Allen).

    Will come back tomorrow with my second wind... Thanks for indulging this guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    John, you've came this far, I have no doubt you'll go all the way to victory. It's the right outcome, and you're the right man for the task. Wish I could say more, but at least know that I'm sending positive energy to you.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    John,

    Don't regret your recent post......I hate to be the one to break it to you but....you are HUMAN!

    Yep.....Grampaw is having every emotional button pushed....at the same time....and repeatedly....he's allowed to feel the pain and crumble sometimes.

    But....Grampaw will hold it together enough to keep moving forward and bring 'our' boys home. (Yes....they have now become 'our' boys....we all want them home.)

    And Sal is right......hold on tight! Don't let them break you. Do what you need to take care of yourself through all of this.

    Oh....by the way.....just for the record...you're not crazy.....you're Grampaw!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Dennis, I dont know if other people are this way or not... But I walk around and the people who are my friends, or who care about me and likewise...Are always present with me when I walk into a situation...and you can tell who they are. And I ALWAYS make that ALWAYS feel your guardian type energy around. Dont ask me why... I also sense some heavy things on your heart about this, as you mentioned... and I respect your choice to be of few words, but its good to know you are still "preying" , however one views that, on the situation. I know you are holding it in the light, and feel blessed to have such a strong spirit , a mighty spirit doing that.

    Jaqueline, your words are so powerful, its like you speak my inward dialogues language, thank you, yes my boys are Warriors... and the way you put that means alot.

    Sal, I didnt get that call made today... but I didnt forget either and will be making it, I want to make an outline of what I want to accomplish on the phone call so as to be concise and not waste the guys time.

    Feeling more normal today... note the word "more", ie; not quite in tune, but I feel alot more in tune than yesterday.

    Thanks guys, I appreciate you all.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      I guess releasing all that did something great, because Grampaw is on FIRE today baby!

      Comin like a freight train boys! Just like Im gonna teach you!

      BTW: I spell it Grampaw, cuz thats how they say it...little southern fellers. Grrraaaaaaammmmpaaaaaaaw! I need you to turn the water offf.....Grammmmmmpaaaaaaaaaaaaww!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Hey guys, just wanted to let you know we are still fighting the good fight... I havent posted lately because i was depressing myself, and I have to be strong and get things done... Had to get up, or else I was heading the wrong direction. So, just wanted to update you, not much news ATM, just trying to keep myself together so we can get er done...

    Changed back to a pic of one of my grandsons so I can keep his energy in the forefront and help draw them...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Oh Jesus, today was a rough one... Whew. Gotta keep on keepin on.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      Only 3 weeks to go; date still the 7th December correct?

      It was only a legal technicality not a judgment against you per se last time, so it will just be a formality on the 7th.

      Box ticking as it's known. :rolleyes:

      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    When this is over and the kids are safe at your house you and Jeanne need to do a Nook/Kindle book and a Create Space Book and anything else the two of you can do to help educate everyone else on dealing with a system that's obviously broken. The number of people dealing with this is legion. You've already stopped being a victim. Its time to become an advocate.You're in the home stretch. Hang in.

    Thomas
    Signature
    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    Been thinking about you and the boys, John.

    Hope you survived Thanksgiving and are getting ready for Christmas with your boys!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
    I have been thinking about you John. I hope things are looking much brighter than they did two months ago. Please give me a PM and let me know how things are. Do you need any more info? Let me know.

    Jeannie
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  • Profile picture of the author chrislangley
    I am sure the judge will see that you are doing your best, and you are the best person to get custody of the boys
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  • Profile picture of the author Jun Balona
    December 7 has passed.

    I hope this time you do get the custody of your grandchildren.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    John - it's the 8th - I sure hope no news is good news. Got fingers crossed.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    The decision was delayed again, by an over bearing DHS attorney... I cant give details here unfortunately, but she hung him up on a technicality... DHS is dark.

    I dont know what I believe about things like evil and demons, but if a person could be possessed, this woman is literally ATE UP WITH THEM!

    All I know is that the laws of sowing and reaping are absolutely true.... and Im going to eat that "bit***es" lunch... When this is done, she is going down hard before she can perpetuate anymore injustice, I will raise 100,000 per year and donate it just to the cause kicking the **** of out people like her every chance I get, for the benefit of families who are hurting.

    Back to making money for the moment, because thats what it takes... Im going mess these people up hard and this case will be their biggest regret in life when they look back.

    Nuff said... I dont really drink beer, so I guess I cant take time to cry in one... Time to get back up and kick A**.

    It aint over till the fat lady sings, as we say in the US.

    Im hurt for the outcome... but my hurt will pass when I win.

    I feel even more hurt by the fact that this injustice exists in our courts "Period", strangely.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      John

      Not quite the post I was expecting you to be writing.

      'Chin up' seems a little lame but I'm sure you'll take the sentiment in the spirit given.

      So do you have another date now?

      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    No the judge said he would submit his decision in writing within the next couple of weeks... He is going to make a decision, just didnt make it in court.

    Thanks Dan, I didnt expect it either. I can tell you with all objectivity that I had every thing they needed legally to do this... the _____ _lawyer there is an expert at confusing this judge, and making it impossible for him to see justice in the moment...I think she runs his courtroom.

    As I have said, "Business men dont make decisions when they are scratching their head"...and neither do judges.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    It aint over till its over. One way or another these DHS people absolutely WILL sit on a witness stand and answer to this Warrior Grandfather.

    There was a story in the bible (not to get religious because Im not), where a boy name Joseph had a dream that someday his brothers would bow before him.

    And they laughed... and many years later they did bow before him as he was made a great leader.

    I have the same dream, and these DHS people will be humbled, and they will answer for alot of things.... To this man, who's wrath they feel they have escaped.

    Many times one thinks that karma does not serve them, or that they escaped it somehow, because it doesnt come "swiftly". But it is the law, and it must come.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    I'm sorry to hear this also John.

    Let's hope someone interviews your PI and CPA, even though you had certified documents, just so they know everything is on the up and up and can make an informed decision quickly.

    When all is said and done, and you get they boys, I hope there is a major overhaul done and a few powers-to-be replaced with higher-ups more competent and equipped to do their jobs effectively and efficiently.

    Sure makes one wonder how many families are at their mercy suffering a similar fate.

    Guess we gotta keep that prayer circle going just a little bit longer, that's the easy part!
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  • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
    John,

    I feel for you brother, I truly do.

    That being said, let me say this. As someone that has some experience with courts, lawyers and their ilk...and I'll leave it at that. I barely scratch the paint.

    Your letting your emotions get to you. I fully realize that kids are involved and it is very hard not to get emotional.

    Do not get angry yet. You haven't won this yet. Forget your anger at the lawyer and
    the DHS...for now.

    It will show thru in court and other places, anger clouds logic.
    When you see people sitting in court stone faced...it's because they were instructed to, by their lawyers...for good reason.

    Win this case...then go ape**** on em...

    Your looking for your next match before you've beaten this one.
    You know how I know? Because I've done it and I recognize it.

    You've heard the expression, "What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger"
    This is one of those times and I know how hard it must be.

    This lawyer is only a player, don't hate the player, hate the game.
    Because it has become in some ways a sad game.
    Ego's and acting and who can convince a Judge and or jury that day is night.


    I truly wrestled with saying this to you, but you seem like a decent guy. I have a serious soft spot for kids caught in the middle of things, they can't possibly understand.
    And for the people that love them.

    It is the only tangible thing that I feel I can give you at this point.
    Reign in the anger. Whatever you have to do and then go over every cross T and dot I.

    A lot of Judges can go thru a trial looking like the most confused person on earth, and then sit down and make a well thought out, proper decision.
    Despite the popular bashing, most didn't get to that point by being idiots.
    And I personally have no love lost for courts or lawyers.

    So that all being said, I hope that you have a wise judge, the kids get what is truly best for them and you will definitely be in mine and my families thoughts prayers and wishes this Christmas.

    I know how important this is.



    As for 'Joseph', there will be a lot of company 'bowing'...
    not religious?..
    peachy...take it as a metaphor.
    Your right, there will be a lot of people, (as my wise Irish Uncle used to say in his heavy accent,)"... laughing out the other side of their arses".

    I wouldn't say it if I didn't truly believe it.


    Strength and luck, John...



    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks Jim, your words are wise, and you are right, I am just needing to clear it all out and Im clouded by anger and hurt. You are right though, and I thank you for taking the time to write that...

    Truly, maybe the judge will look through all the paperwork and see the truth, once he is in his quiet time.

    Maybe thats why he asked for it... to be able to make a decision without that attorney in his ear.

    Thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
    Your welcome John and I'm glad you took it the way I meant it.

    Sometimes reality is..well...it just sucks.

    Probably why so few people want to face it.

    I truly understand how hard this must be...

    And I hope things work out in the best interest of the kids.

    Everyone should be lucky enough to have someone who loves them so much.



    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    I do have some good news today...

    My daughter has gotten married... to a boy/man who I really do like and think he is perfect...she is much better, much more life, not on anything... and my grandmother gave them a house paid for in full.... its just a little cottage, but cozy and nice... Its her old house, because she got a new one.

    The good news is that...

    My daughters attorney has opened up an opportunity for her to get another chance.

    So if he doesnt make the decision to place them here for some ridiculous, outlandish and unbelievable reason... I can still help her... and it looks like either way there isnt much chance they can adopt them out at this point... as long as the kids keep doing well... I can help with that.

    They dont even have a house payment. Like I said it isnt a big huge house but its a cozy country cottage that will suffice just fine... I have stayed there myself many times and love it. The kids love it to, and are excited about a new life... We will get these boys yet.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    That is great news John You just made my week.

    Di

    P.S. Your Grandmother? Sheeze, that means she is a great-great grandmother
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Yeah it made my week too. The man she married is one of the boys father, and he cried with me and told me he loved me... I took them out shopping for things they might need...and I asked him if we could trade wallets so I could take a piece of my new son in law with me... He took some of the shopping budget I gave them and bought two matching wallets so we would both have the same one...

    I love him. I am going to support him as the man of his family, he is a man of gentleness and love. I could not be more happy about him...and she is happy and bright as I have ever seen her.

    They believe they can do it... and I believe that between me and them...Yes we can.


    Ps. Yes Dianna, she is the greatest grandmother ever...she taught me what I wanted to be as a grandparent.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    Amazing sometimes how things can turn around in a split second
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Sigh.... Indeed it is. God is good.

    Ps. If it ends up that my only job was just to keep the elevator doors held open long enough for her to find her way... Than I am happy for that, and it was worth everything.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    I am sure I have told you this before John, but you are amazing
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Thanks, Di.... but Im just doing what any grandfather would do who loved his grandchildren....Is there another way? If so, I cant imagine...

    I cant wait till the next chapter.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Have you contacted any authority to have the Child Services and the judge investigated? They might be giving a lot of people the same problem in your area. It's called profit. Serious - if you don't get those kids back asap, start an investigation. This sounds beyond bureaucracy snafu - it sounds very shady.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      What great news John! Amazing how things sometimes work out, in ways we never thought of.

      I hope she does get the boys back, that is what DHS is supposed to do, if there are no safety threats now. Then they will have their mom and you back in their lives.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Jeannie Crabtree View Post

        What great news John! Amazing how things sometimes work out, in ways we never thought of.

        I hope she does get the boys back, that is what DHS is supposed to do, if there are no safety threats now. Then they will have their mom and you back in their lives.
        It aint over till its over, and this is no guarantee... but it IS alot of hope, and as stated by Jim, the judge may still decide in my favor after he thinks it out, so all hope is not lost, nor will it ever be until someone quits.

        My brother Michael keeps telling me, you have never lost until you quit fighting.

        @Sal

        I lost his contact info Sal, could you resend, I think its time for that. Yes. This judge does have a name on the internet as a baby thief... in 2008 he violated a whole religious groups rights to have children and confiscated over 400 children from families holding them hostage for over two years over their religious beliefs. Now I dont believe in Tony Alamo, but I DO believe we have constitutional rights.

        There is really no valid reason for them to continue this, they just dont like me because they think I try to come across as a big city slicker trying to run their courtroom.

        However, when I try the humble route, they run over me. I have to fight and that makes them even angrier.

        Can you believe a judge asking for something, then when you bring it in the exact form he asked, even calling his office beforehand to re confirm the precise request, he denies it as evidence?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    Wow......reading the last few posts and getting updated has been a rollercoaster ride.....I can only imagine what living through all this must be like for you John!

    I am so happy for your daughter! I wish her and her new husband all the best!

    It sounds like your boys are going to be coming home to a whole new life full of love and hope.

    Any chance they will be home for Christmas?

    You are a true warrior John and I think of you and the boys often. Please keep us updated!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    John -- you need to report your situation (and the judge's record) to someone immediately -- either to a state or national judiciary review board.

    I will get that contact back to you tomorrow morning. You must request a different judge immediately, and have the right to do so, especially with his record.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    DHS requested today that my son in law attend parenting classes. This news is my Christmas present from God as I see it.

    I am staying with the kids for the moment and helping every way I can. They are such a beautiful couple. I have never seen two people more meant for each other if thats possible. Its good to see my daughter so happy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      Yes, they will have a check for any criminal activity and he will have to go through parenting classes, but this is good news indeed.

      Let him know stuff may be brought up he will have to work through, OR REFUTE, but not to be upset, as that will do no good. He needs to be seen as compliant.

      Jeannie


      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      DHS requested today that my son in law attend parenting classes. This news is my Christmas present from God as I see it.

      I am staying with the kids for the moment and helping every way I can. They are such a beautiful couple. I have never seen two people more meant for each other if thats possible. Its good to see my daughter so happy.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Jeannie Crabtree View Post

        Yes, they will have a check for any criminal activity and he will have to go through parenting classes, but this is good news indeed.

        Let him know stuff may be brought up he will have to work through, OR REFUTE, but not to be upset, as that will do no good. He needs to be seen as compliant.

        Jeannie
        Yes, that was my prob from the beginning, I was seen as outraged. Because it outraged me... but, didnt realize how political this was, I thought that just because I had rights that they would be honored, and it wasnt like that.

        Heath is a "Yes sir, no sir" kinda guy though. He will be fine.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
          I know what you mean John. It is beyond imagination what happens, unless one has been through it.

          The sad thing is, some people don't get their kids back unless they are seen as compliant, even when they have turned their life around.

          Jeannie


          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Yes, that was my prob from the beginning, I was seen as outraged. Because it outraged me... but, didnt realize how political this was, I thought that just because I had rights that they would be honored, and it wasnt like that.

          Heath is a "Yes sir, no sir" kinda guy though. He will be fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    John, it's so great to know that you are spending the holidays together with your family.

    Merry Christmas to all, and best wishes for 2012!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jun Balona
    Just finished cooking my special spaghetti. (It has hotdog in it. Why? Don't ask - it is a Filipino thing. :p)

    I'm just glad that you are with your family. Seems like you would have your merry Christmas after all.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It's good to hear you are with your grand kids for the holidays. I hope they are returned to your family in a normal capacity soon. At least you are getting the chance to let them know how hard you are working to get back to them so they don't feel abandoned. That is the most important thing right now (outside of gaining custody). If they know you are fighting, they will never feel unloved.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author DiamondPed
      Hi John,

      I've been following this thread from afar with,

      Disbelief at what was happening to you & your family,
      then a degree of Anger at the reaction from the authorities to you,
      then Admiration, as you BATTLED to win this fight, and now,
      Excitement as I'm cheering you on to the finish line.

      An emotional rollercoaster ...... that's just for us, nevermind what you & your family are going through.
      I'm also delighted that your Daughter is turning herself around, good for her!

      "I will persist until I succeed" the Scroll marked 3, from Og Mandino, Greatest Salesman in the world.

      John Durham epitomises this phrase.

      Enjoy the rest of your holiday time, the future is looking brighter by the day ;o)

      PeterC.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Hey Peter, I love you man. Thanks. You are like a candle in my life that I always know is out there burning radiating a light toward me. Sometimes I dont hear from you for a couple of months...but I always know you are holding me in the light out there somewhere. Thanks again.

    It was a hard week... However I got to see my grandsons this week and that was really nice... My grandson asked me "You are still fighting for me right grampaw...", That killed me, because they arent allowed to know those sorts of things... but I talked to him anyway and let him know that he was going to come home, and he will.

    I would have to write a blog here to share all the details of this visit with you ... but I have to tell you it was beautiful. It was really, really beautiful.

    Yeah.

    So anyway, as heart breaking as it was to leave them, today my daughter received a letter from DHS that says they want to have a family centered planning meeting, and that all of her relatives could come, and have a chance to speak on her behalf, as they review her progress and together we all determine what support is needed for her family. That seems to be what it is saying.

    Anyway, I believe this is a sign that they are going to consider changing their recommendation to the judge.

    I dont know why these hard things come in life, even when you think you have it all together, even if you are making alot of money.... Money isnt the only thing in life.

    I dont know why sometime we endure long hardships... Other than perhaps karma?

    All seeds grow. back when I was in my twenties, I was in the music business and I lived a life of foolishness... perhaps those seeds grew this year?

    They always grow, never doubt that.

    Maybe it has taken a year of living the negative harvest of that foolishness to live out the karmic return?

    I know only that I walked through the bad season of harvest though, and I was unaffected (or at least as much as possible).... In other words: I came close, but I didnt "break".

    In other words; if you allow a bad harvest season to affect your behavior or your vibe too much, then you sow more hard vibes into the next harvest season.

    The only way to break through the vicious cycle is to walk through the season of red mist, and simultaneously spew white mist out before yourself, so that eventually when you come to the end of that patch, there is white mist awaiting you and you get to the other side, instead of perpetually being affected by the red mist, and perpetually spewing more of it out before yourself.

    This year, I have walked through red mist, and thankfully, I believe I have spewed white mist before myself through it, for the most part...

    Maybe this letter from DHS is the clouds beginning to thin out as we are walking out of the patch of bad harvest, and into the light we have sown through it.

    Thank you guys, I dont know what I would have done without you.

    I will continue to keep you posted.

    NOW ITS TIME TO ROCK!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    I am glad you got to spend time with your grandkids. Happy new year John.

    Di
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    You too Di... I owe you an email BTW. Coming now. I just got my second wind, time to rock n roll.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I think this will be your year and mine John. The best for us all.

    Kim
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Yep. I am going to make a million dollars in 2012 Kim! Love ya brother!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Finally a victory today. I cant divulge really, even though later Im going to come back when all this is over and update this thread...but a victory today. Bigtime! Things are starting to move my way it seems. Thanks to advice from Jeanie Crabtree, and David in part.

    Thank God.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Congrats, John! That's how the battle is won, one victory at a time. Don't say anything you shouldn't. Updating us can wait however long it takes. All things in good time, John. All things in good time.

    I salute you!
    Signature

    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    The last court hearing went our way... and after ward I stayed up all night with my daughter drafting paper work to demand all of the paperworks and medical records, court records and everything pertaining to the case of the children, and made her (My daughters) offlicial declaration...

    Striking harder while the heat was on them...

    Today we received news that the supervisor over this case was fired, awaiting news on why... hopefully it had to do with our actions.

    I hope its a good sign.

    The problem is that I couldnt fight her case , she had to. Now she is fighting back hard.


    She didnt realize that she had to instruct her lawyer and tell her what to do if she wanted anything done...now she knows she has a legal right to expect things from her lawyer, and she is exercising it.

    Korean believes, perhaps largely because of her Dad, that Good always wins, and she was a bit naive thinking that everyone was working toward her good.... Now she knows different and she is taking control.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    A major battle was won today in court. The DHS overstepped their bounderies so far that they were scolded, refused for their requests and revealed themselves as dishonest predators...in a big way.

    There was once a country so small and defenseless , it was constantly being pounded on by another...and had no defenses, then another country came in and said "we can give you planes and bombs so you can fight back..."

    And that day the leverage in the war "turned around"...

    There is always a day when the leverage shifts in a victory that has been long fought for and won, that we can look back on, and I believe today was that day... I feel a warrior victory song coming up... I hear this heavy metal guy screaming in the back ground like a comanche over and over "WE HAVE WON THE WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    I see the light at the end of the tunnel and the victory song is rising within already...our day is coming soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      Fantastic John. I have been thinking about you and your daughter's situation, hoping things are winding up. Isn't amazing how long it drags out and the things that are pulled?

      Watch, they will probably tack another direction. Sounds like you are headed in the right direction though.

      Jeannie


      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      A major battle was won today in court. The DHS overstepped their bounderies so far that they were scolded, refused for their requests and revealed themselves as dishonest predators...in a big way.

      There was once a country so small and defenseless , it was constantly being pounded on by another...and had no defenses, then another country came in and said "we can give you planes and bombs so you can fight back..."

      And that day the leverage in the war "turned around"...

      There is always a day when the leverage shifts in a victory that has been long fought for and won, that we can look back on, and I believe today was that day... I feel a warrior victory song coming up... I hear this heavy metal guy screaming in the back ground like a comanche over and over "WE HAVE WON THE WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

      I see the light at the end of the tunnel and the victory song is rising within already...our day is coming soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Good to hear you are making progress, John. We're waiting for you to tell us you have brought them home.

      Be fierce!
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Alright Warrior Grandfather! You go!

    Pounce on those bureaucrats all the way!

    Let them count their beans in hell! LOL!

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    You are right Jeannie, they DID pull a trick the next day...

    This is one worn out Warrior, I have to tell you.... but bein worn out didnt stop Balboa from winning.... I just need to go to my corner for a minute and sike back up.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      Light at the end of the tunnel.

      Good news.

      I'm just out for my Friday night jolly. I'll drink your pint.

      Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Thanks Jimbo, Im not a drinker, but I shore could use it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      Sorry to hear it John. CPS is not what the general public has been led to believe. But who would know that unless you have had to deal with it personally.

      There are times children should be taken away, but certainly when all the dangers are gone the vast majority of children should be returned to their parents/grandparents/legal guardians.

      Keep your chin up. It seems to run 2 1/2 years to 3 or so before the children are released even when people have gotten their life turned around.

      We have talked about it, but be sure you and your daughter refute the mis information and false information as it is generated, through submitting paperwork to the front desk.

      Re check all the requirements for having the children returned. Make sure all those are ticked off and continue to be in the clear.

      Continue to submit complaints where CPS is not doing what their handbook says they are supposed to do.

      It wears you down, and is crazy making, so make sure to do things to work off the stress.

      Did you ever get a CASA volunteer involved in the case? It can really make a difference.

      Jeannie




      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      You are right Jeannie, they DID pull a trick the next day...

      This is one worn out Warrior, I have to tell you.... but bein worn out didnt stop Balboa from winning.... I just need to go to my corner for a minute and sike back up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
    Well.....seeing as this post has been bumped.......

    How's it going John??????
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    We aim to please, 3M...

    ... but I will need to see some real tears before I give you more audio-verbal abuse.

    Hello GPa John? What IS up with dis? (dis= the status of this situation?)
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      We aim to please, 3M...

      ... but I will need to see some real tears before I give you more audio-verbal abuse.

      Hello GPa John? What IS up with dis? (dis= the status of this situation?)
      Lets just say I still wage my war. And there will be a time when I can announce more...which Im looking forward to, but Im learning to hold my tongue and be wise.

      Thank you for asking , you are all in my heart as I wage this seemingly ongoing war.
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      • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        but Im learning to hold my tongue and be wise.

        .
        Smart move.

        I was going to tell you something that happened to me over skype
        but ill tell you here, its a good lesson for people to learn.

        In 1998 i had a conversation with a woman named Rodonna Razzle.
        (I know some of the old timers here know that name) over ICQ.

        In 2000 I received a subpoena about that conversation.

        Someone hacked her T-1, and recorded all her conversations
        took screen shots of what she was doing, found unflattering pics
        of her and posted them online. As well as all her personal identification
        and bills, ect.

        Completely illegal, completely private. And yet... legal to use in court.
        Kinda makes you go Hmmmm. Does it not?

        Now if they can find and use that stuff in court... imagine how easy
        it is to find and use something on a public forum.
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        Selling Ain't for Sissies
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
        Glad you updated us, John.

        Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and de stressing at the end of the day.

        There is a lot I could say, but decided not to. Just know I think about you and your family and what you are going through and check this thread periodically.


        Jeannie

        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Lets just say I still wage my war. And there will be a time when I can announce more...which Im looking forward to, but Im learning to hold my tongue and be wise.

        Thank you for asking , you are all in my heart as I wage this seemingly ongoing war.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    We lost today.

    There's always appeals...but I have never read a single case of anyone who won a CPS appeal, and I have searched hard.

    Just thought I would let you guys know.

    Thanks for your support. Much love to you all. I cant fight my daughters battle for her. She was the only one who could win... and she didnt do the right things.

    I had a dream when she was 5 that I was riding a bike, and I rode ahead of her to catch this girl (me an her mom were seperated), and in my dream I was thinking I would turn around in a second... and she would be fine. She was saying Daddy dont get so far ahead...I might wreck.
    I heard her crying and turned around and she had wrecked and was cut and bruised pretty bad. The dream made a deep impression.

    Later her mother and I divorced... and I went touring around chasing this country music thing...Still visited alot...but I wasnt in her life like I wanted to be for a few years there, (until she got preg, then I have been in it every since more or less fulltime).

    I really thought I was going to get a big deal and be a millionaire and make everything perfect (with the music publishing thing)... so I could have alot more to offer her, and I left her in her mothers care, and she ended up getting mangled (pregnant) at a very young age.... I see that as the dream coming true, because it mangled her.

    Then 7 years ago I had another dream that made an impression... I dreamed we were riding in a car and went over a bridge and were underwater.

    I was trying to help her get out of the car, because she was drowning...but she was frantic and fighting me the whole way and I couldnt get her out, but I wouldnt let go, and in my dream I drown trying to save her.

    That frantic trying to save her but her not working with me has been going on for two years... I have given her every bit of effort, and she has fought me the whole way. I have been dying trying to save her.

    Today I did. Now I know the meaning of that dream.

    -John
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Sorry to hear you lost John. I know you did all you could.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Sorry to hear you lost John. I know you did all you could.
        Hoping that phoenix can come out and rise from the ashes Tim. Thanks for your encouragement.

        I have been accused of going crazy this past few months... losing my mind..., and I guess I have been. I knew she wasnt doing what was needed, and I have been losing my mind and my business and everything else worrying about it...

        Now I feel Dead.

        I dont know where this is going to go, but I know God is going to have to recreate me from the inside out, because Im gone man.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Sorry to hear that John.

    One more chorus of 'Justice is Blind' (or missing)

    'Never say die' - "the darkest hour is just before the dawn'

    all dat...

    One of the truest things I ever read is that 'convincing behavior produces resistance' - and many times when I just give up - (only if there seems to be no other choice) -- then that is when everything will turn around and do what is right.

    There will be other opportunities in the future and someday she might beg you to take the kids.

    This is not the end.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      There will be other opportunities in the future and someday she might beg you to take the kids.

      This is not the end.
      She doesnt have them GF, the CPS took them away from her. I have been trying to get them out of foster care, and trying to get her to do the right things so she could get them out herself when they wouldnt let me have them, but she doesnt follow my wisdom...and today all the effort was laid to waste.

      Im not beyond believing in miracles, but the hammer came down today... I have one shot left, because one of my family members is trying to adopt, but CPS wont make money by letting that happen so its a long shot. Im not holding my breath.

      In my view its just time to start building something, as soon as I can get my ass up off the ground which may take some time...so that 10 years from now when my first grandson is of age, if he isnt brainwashed against us, that I can have a world to show him that he will want to be a part of.

      Thats enough to live for, but right now it feels like a death sentence.

      BTW, "Thanks" you are a good online friend! Friend Period, and fellow warrior comrade.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    sorry john it's been a while and i am an LOL (little old lady) - I forgot how the story was - in my defense now i remember - just wanted to comment while rushing by!

    So yeah - however it plays out/comes down - it is still 'never say die'

    God does his best work in us when we are 'broken' - when we have no choice but to say 'let go and let God'.
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      John, I am so sorry to hear this, I have been following along since the start of this thread. Will keep you in my prayers. Life often seems very cruel, but don't give up. You can find the willpower to continue, but I think you do need some time to recover a bit after a setback.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    I know a grandmother her in my neighborhood going through what seems to be a similar situation with her grandchild. I see how committed she is towards properly caring for her grandson, but authorities have deemed otherwise. It is not fair.

    I think your plans to build something for them is a good idea. You will reconnect. A friend of mine reconnected with his siblings even though they were raised in adoptive families and didn't even know of each other's existence (a legacy of official Canadian attempts to erase Native identity).
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    Project HERE.

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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Update: 5 weeks since last post.

    It aint over till its over folks, thats all I can devlulge at the moment, but hopefully soon Im going to come back and tell you a story, and be an example that you never quit fighting...NEVER....and how sometimes one last defiant stand turns everything over on it's head.

    I hope to soon tell you a story of how, even when you look like you are done for, things can change if you keep fighting on...and how corrupt people get what they deserve in the end as long as you dont let go...

    There was once a little country that got wailed on day in and day out by another bigger "bullying" country. The little country didnt have as much ammo or fire power....They didnt have a chance of defending themselves against the bigger bully , so they suffered the humiliation of their proud people, and the defeat, and terrorism for 20 years daily. They had fought until they were out of resources, and eventually had to learn to just live with the bullying.

    Then one day another country came in and gave the little country bombs so they could fight back against their oppressors, and, that day, the little country started blowing planes out of the sky...and suddenly the whole twenty years of oppression turned around, and the tides changed.

    We are back in the ring folks. With Bombs.

    By the time this is over these people will be lucky to not get sued for 10 million dollars. Call me a dreamer but the warrior forum is where dreamers dreams come true.

    The Warrior forum is where people take long shots, and sometimes they go right in the basket. One thing is for certain, you miss every shot that you dont take, and you have a chance of making every one that you do.

    I have had about 20 second winds with this...you got to take advantage of every one you get, and never let go, even when others say you have to, and that there is no sense in fighting any more.

    Sometimes even when a fight has crumbled your whole world, worn you down to almost nothing, and it seems you have nothing left to even fight with, if you can just get the strength to take one more swing, it might just be the knockout one.

    - Grampaw John
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    very motivating - can relate on many levels, g-pa J -

    ... just reminded myself of the little mustard seed this morning.

    they say all you need is just that much faith.

    sometimes it's so hard when you are beaten down and looks like your demise is imminent. With your last molecule of strength you know you are still in the game.

    To the bitter end.


    ...like they say, they may "have won the battle but they haven't won the WAR."

    I am ready for the victory party!

    So DO TELL, G-PA JOHN!
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      very motivating - can relate on many levels, g-pa J -

      ... just reminded myself of the little mustard seed this morning.

      they say all you need is just that much faith.

      sometimes it's so hard when you are beaten down and looks like your demise is imminent. With your last molecule of strength you know you are still in the game.

      To the bitter end.


      ...like they say, they may "have won the battle but they haven't won the WAR."

      I am ready for the victory party!

      So DO TELL, G-PA JOHN!
      Well, not to tease, but I cant tell right now...have learned alot about that, however whenever I am back up, I just want to come tell my Warriors friends first, because they have hung in there with me, and they deserve to know that their faith for us isnt in vain. I will be able to tell in time...and it will hopefully be a glorious story.

      Until then I will have to make vague posts just to subtly let my Warriors in arms know that we still havent given up and arent down for the count, no matter what the enemy wants us to accept.

      Just because they are bigger doesnt mean they are always right, and it doesnt mean they cant fall.... Little guys make come backs every day, and it looks again like we arent done fighting yet...we are rising like a pheonix from our own ashes.

      First, to get the children back...and then to seek vengeance. WARRIOR LIKE vengeance, not only for ourselves, but for the sake of helping to preserve the American family in general, and teaching our local governments to respect the sacredness of the public families they are sworn serve.

      Many men have sounded like rambling fools...and later were proved to be right. I know it sounds crazy after all of this to still believe we are going to see victory, but this rambling fool isnt done yet.

      Someday, I will be able to bring this whole picture together and repay you all with a beautiful story for indulging me.

      Thanks Patricia

      -Grampaw John
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      • Profile picture of the author Jacqueline Smith
        I think of you and your grandchildren often and am thrilled by the 'tone' of your update.

        Hopefully we'll get the full (happy ending) story soon and you'll be typing it with a few extra little hands helping!
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by Jacqueline Smith View Post

          I think of you and your grandchildren often and am thrilled by the 'tone' of your update.

          Hopefully we'll get the full (happy ending) story soon and you'll be typing it with a few extra little hands helping!
          Jacqueline , you are one of the people whose spirit I directly feel is almost right there beside me, in every confrontation, and it is no small thing. Thank you for the supportive energy you send our way. I hope I can pull out a win for all of your support, and mostly for the boys I cherish, and love so much that I know the scent of their very breath.

          Mostly, its my daughter who has pulled out some intense ammo that could really turn things around..., she has suddenly turned into an Erin Brachovich and is finally "getting it"...Fired her lawyer...doing it old school working with a paralegal...and they are doing fantastic work together that is ten times better than her lawyer ever did. Today she mailed off a motion that may turn this whole thing over on its head. It was amazing. Im pretty sure some people are going to stand up and take note.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Ps. We also enlisted the help of a federal attorney. The local ones are all in the courts pocket. We believe there was some conspiracy going on there and have documented evidence, as reviewed by a federal attorney of ALOT of tampering with evidence... I mean its right there so clear that it cannot be denied, and on more than one incident... Im feeling they will want to drop this instead of confront what has been presented.

    Will let you know if the motion is granted or denied as soon as I know.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jeannie Crabtree
      John, I had a knot in my stomach at your last post in January. But it is never done until it is all over with.

      Glad to hear your daughter got some help. The court appointed lawyers are part of the conveyer belt, so they don't want to make too many waves...

      I have heard of other paralegals that have helped get children back.

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Jacqueline , you are one of the people whose spirit I directly feel is almost right there beside me, in every confrontation, and it is no small thing. Thank you for the supportive energy you send our way. I hope I can pull out a win for all of your support, and mostly for the boys I cherish, and love so much that I know the scent of their very breath.

      Mostly, its my daughter who has pulled out some intense ammo that could really turn things around..., she has suddenly turned into an Erin Brachovich and is finally "getting it"...Fired her lawyer...doing it old school working with a paralegal...and they are doing fantastic work together that is ten times better than her lawyer ever did. Today she mailed off a motion that may turn this whole thing over on its head. It was amazing. Im pretty sure some people are going to stand up and take note.

      Fantastic on getting the help of a federal attorney. I hope all the tampering and conspiracy comes to light.

      I still get upset with what my brother went through, and how they tried to put my family in such a negative light with disinformation and lies.

      We lost friends because of it. Some of my moms family will no longer have anything to do with us. I just give it to a higher power, I don't think we can undo all the damage.

      Wishing the very best for you and your family. Hang in there John. Sounds like your daughter and the added help is going to bring these boys home!

      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Ps. We also enlisted the help of a federal attorney. The local ones are all in the courts pocket. We believe there was some conspiracy going on there and have documented evidence, as reviewed by a federal attorney of ALOT of tampering with evidence... I mean its right there so clear that it cannot be denied, and on more than one incident... Im feeling they will want to drop this instead of confront what has been presented.

      Will let you know if the motion is granted or denied as soon as I know.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Yeah I remember Jeannie , talking to your brother on the phone as he literally (looking back) "prophesied" everything in detail to me that they would do, and how his attorney sold him out...

    He really was correct on every level about exactly how they operate, I mean in DETAIL. Literally EVERYTHING he said is what would come to pass, and I have read the exact same story from hundreds of other families over time.

    On my own end, I have had to fight by myself and hire my own attorney's..., but my daughter had a court appointed one... and I have advised her several times to fire her. She gets ready to, and starts taking the steps to do that, and the attorney talks her back out of it....Anything to keep her on the conveyor belt, and I SWEAR TO GOD, that attorney works straight (DIRECTLY) for the people trying to send her constitutional rights, and children up the River.

    At this point Im sure I sound like a crazy rambling man... but I wouldnt be the first crazy rambling man that was RIGHT.

    When you quote your constitutional rights to them , its like Noah saying there is a flood coming... They portray you like a rambling fool.... and fudge your statements off the record.

    It's so amazing... I mean...lol....there are just no words. Even "people" in life....you have the kind that buy everything the government says and automatically assume they must be right... "Sheeple".

    It really destroys so much... But I am a man who believes in glorious victories and come backs, and I believe in our ability to prove naysayers wrong... and I believe that I am the guy like Noah, who was ridiculed for saying their was a flood coming... I believe that alot of people are going to be surprised when it starts raining... and if not, then I will never believe in our constitution ever again.

    Thanks again Jeannie. It aint over till the fat lady sings in this guys world. I hope to teach my grandchildren that too. I hope my DAUGHTER teaches them that, and I hope one of them grows up to be an attorney and fights for true justice against these literal demons that walk around on the earth in human clothing.

    Edit: And I'd be lying if I said I didnt hope that one of them grows up and plays a stratocaster- lol.

    Sorry for being so passionate.

    I am believing for her, that she will be an Erin Brachovich, even knowing that victory, suing, and ALL, can never replace or repair all the damage they have done. Maybe we can make something great out of the chaos though, and it will not have been completely suffered in vain.

    It's like an abused child, who overcomes in life, but still has that label of one who has been victimized which follows him ... Even in winning, we will always have to carry how they victimized our family for so long, and feel the sense of that ... It's really not repairable what they have done. It changed the course of EVERYTHING.

    I can almost hear someone reading this and saying 'What ever happened to taking personal responsibility for what has happened John...?"

    Well, it's easy to arm chair quarter back... let's hope you never have to understand these things, and come to these realizations. There is a real epidemic here in our government that is not funny at all, and I sincerely hope no one ever has to walk this path, in these shoes.

    In the end I only hope that greatness somehow comes forth from it.

    -John
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