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I may not see a 'built' or programmed human...I bet my kids will.



Animal's genetic code redesigned
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Cool!

    So now they can make pigs that really do fly!

    Don't let KFC see that article, they'll be bulking up 600# chickens, lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author promhut729
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Cool!

      So now they can make pigs that really do fly!

      Don't let KFC see that article, they'll be bulking up 600# chickens, lol.
      Haha, do not let them know:D
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Genetic craps? Daddy needs a new pair of shoes!
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    Reading that article, it is clear they have done it because they can do it, but they don't have a clue what they are doing it for.
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      Reading that article, it is clear they have done it because they can do it, but they don't have a clue what they are doing it for.

      EXACTLY my point Derek....very good.

      These people scare me...people think the world is messed up now, wait till an artificial gene pool gets introduced.

      The guy who (basically) invented the atom bomb, wished (in the end) he could un invent it.

      The consequences of some of 'academia's brightest' are surprisingly NOT thought through.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

        EXACTLY my point Derek....very good.

        These people scare me...people think the world is messed up now, wait till an artificial gene pool gets introduced.

        The guy who (basically) invented the atom bomb, wished (in the end) he could un invent it.

        The consequences of some of 'academia's brightest' are surprisingly NOT thought through.
        What's surprising is the lack of common sense may of the brightest have.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Why does that story make me think of Pandora's Box?
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  • Profile picture of the author taspocahon
    Cool!

    So now they can make pigs that really do fly!

    Don't let KFC see that article, they'll be bulking up 600# chickens, lol.
    That's an insteresting idea.I like it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I'll take the opposite POV...What if we can develop DNA therapy that takes the DNA of a salamander that can regrow its tail and apply it to people so they can regrow a limb that was lost or even organs such as hearts and livers...

    Or taking the growth DNA of bamboo which can grow a foot a day and apply it to wheat, corn or trees for lumber?

    How about a green cow (from chloroform) capable of direct photosynthesis so it doesn't have to eat vegetation, basically making it "solar powered"?

    Maybe take the longevity gene from redwoods that will allow us to live for 1000's of years?

    When matches first came out, people were afraid of them and called them "devil sticks". People were also afraid of electricity. I understand there are risks with DNA reserach, but there's also great benefits which are possible.
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I'll take the opposite POV...What if we can develop DNA therapy that takes the DNA of a salamander that can regrow its tail and apply it to people so they can regrow a limb that was lost or even organs such as hearts and livers...

      Or taking the growth DNA of bamboo which can grow a foot a day and apply it to wheat, corn or trees for lumber?

      How about a green cow (from chloroform) capable of direct photosynthesis so it doesn't have to eat vegetation, basically making it "solar powered"?

      Maybe take the longevity gene from redwoods that will allow us to live for 1000's of years?

      When matches first came out, people were afraid of them and called them "devil sticks". People were also afraid of electricity. I understand there are risks with DNA reserach, but there's also great benefits which are possible.
      I do agree with the plants, I live in South Carolina & anyone that has ever been to southern states in the US knows about kudzu, that stuff will grow a foot a day in a drought (no joke)!

      Looks like they could figure out what makes that kudzu plant grow so damn fast & apply the same thing to common food sources like corn, lettuce, potatoes, etc...
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    • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I'll take the opposite POV...What if we can develop DNA therapy that takes the DNA of a salamander that can regrow its tail and apply it to people so they can regrow a limb that was lost or even organs such as hearts and livers...

      Or taking the growth DNA of bamboo which can grow a foot a day and apply it to wheat, corn or trees for lumber?

      How about a green cow (from chloroform) capable of direct photosynthesis so it doesn't have to eat vegetation, basically making it "solar powered"?

      Maybe take the longevity gene from redwoods that will allow us to live for 1000's of years?

      When matches first came out, people were afraid of them and called them "devil sticks". People were also afraid of electricity. I understand there are risks with DNA reserach, but there's also great benefits which are possible.
      Kurt,

      I certainly agree that for every 'black cloud' there is a silver lining.
      But for every silver lining there is also a black cloud.

      I'm certainly not naive enough to think this can ever stop.
      It's just interesting to watch.

      I personally don't think you can mess with the Universe (especially at that level) without getting stung.


      I'm sure there will be people that want bamboo dna and the ability to grow limbs ...

      I'll take nature, warts and all.
      Man may end up a 'perfect' empty, soulless shell.


      It is ironic that the further away people move from nature and it's way's...the more they try to 'improve' on it.
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    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
      Well Kurt we already have genetically modified fruits and vegetables and they are proving to be less nutritious and cause diseases, so that's not working.
      Do you really think mankind is ready to reproduce limbs and organs at will, or even live thousands of years?
      Gee can't see that going wrong at all:rolleyes:
      We have a population problem already, great idea having people live way past their life expediency.
      A green cow? What possible good could that be? What type of nutritional value would it have?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

        Well Kurt we already have genetically modified fruits and vegetables and they are proving to be less nutritious and cause diseases, so that's not working.
        Do you really think mankind is ready to reproduce limbs and organs at will, or even live thousands of years?
        Gee can't see that going wrong at all:rolleyes:
        We have a population problem already, great idea having people live way past their life expediency.
        A green cow? What possible good could that be? What type of nutritional value would it have?
        Actually corn is the most genetically modified plant there is and it's all because of native Americans. And everywhere corn was grown in the Americas a great civilization followed. Sure, we use corn too much today, but it helped many American natives survive for centuries...Want to talk about potatoes?

        And if you're so worried about our "life expectancy", maybe we should shoot everyone over 46, as this is about the "normal" expectancy of man throughout history. Maybe those of us that didn't have kids would have the right to live longer, since we aren't contributing to the population problem?

        If we could grow food faster, we could support more people for longer periods of time.

        Concerning regrowing limbs, we're closer than you think. And even if we weren't, I merely brought up a possibility. I'll put you down for "against regenerating limbs and organs".

        As far as a green cow...Here's one possibility...Space travel to a place like the moon or Mars which has plenty of sunlight but no plants. Or in the deserts of the World, where they only need water, but we don't need to waste water on growing plants to feed them. But since they don't exist, why don't you tell us the problems with "nutrition"?

        DNA research and therapy is already saving many lives or making lives better for things like Parkinsons, etc.

        And here's just one example of DNA therapy repairing asthma in mice...20 million Americans are affected by asthma.
        DNA Therapy Repairs Asthma-Related Lung Damage in Mice


        I'm guessing you can't see anything good in it either. :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Actually corn is the most genetically modified plant there is and it's all because of native Americans. And everywhere corn was grown in the Americas a great civilization followed. Sure, we use corn too much today, but it helped many American natives survive for centuries...Want to talk about potatoes?

          And if you're so worried about our "life expectancy", maybe we should shoot everyone over 46, as this is about the "normal" expectancy of man throughout history. Maybe those of us that didn't have kids would have the right to live longer, since we aren't contributing to the population problem?

          If we could grow food faster, we could support more people for longer periods of time.

          Concerning regrowing limbs, we're closer than you think. And even if we weren't, I merely brought up a possibility. I'll put you down for "against regenerating limbs and organs".

          As far as a green cow...Here's one possibility...Space travel to a place like the moon or Mars which has plenty of sunlight but no plants. Or in the deserts of the World, where they only need water, but we don't need to waste water on growing plants to feed them. But since they don't exist, why don't you tell us the problems with "nutrition"?

          DNA research and therapy is already saving many lives or making lives better for things like Parkinsons, etc.

          And here's just one example of DNA therapy repairing asthma in mice...20 million Americans are affected by asthma.
          DNA Therapy Repairs Asthma-Related Lung Damage in Mice


          I'm guessing you can't see anything good in it either. :rolleyes:
          Kurt there is a big difference between selective breeding and genetically modifying something so your corn example with the Indians doesn't hold any water at all. What was done with corn and potatoes in those years was called cross breeding and selective breeding not genetic engineering:rolleyes:
          Their is also a huge difference in understanding genetics and genetic therapy and genetically modifying something.
          Your comment about killing everyone over 46 if I'm worried about life expectancy is just plain stupid and I'm surprised you would use such a lame example to try and prove your point. But to use your own logic I suppose you would be happy if Stalin was still alive or if every person born in the last 2,000 years was still here.
          I'll give you the asthma one, but even that is a huge difference from altering DNA to live longer or to regrow limbs.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            Kurt there is a big difference between selective breeding and genetically modifying something so your corn example with the Indians doesn't hold any water at all. What was done with corn and potatoes in those years was called cross breeding and selective breeding not genetic engineering:rolleyes:
            Their is also a huge difference in understanding genetics and genetic therapy and genetically modifying something.
            Your comment about killing everyone over 46 if I'm worried about life expectancy is just plain stupid and I'm surprised you would use such a lame example to try and prove your point. But to use your own logic I suppose you would be happy if Stalin was still alive or if every person born in the last 2,000 years was still here.
            I'll give you the asthma one, but even that is a huge difference from altering DNA to live longer or to regrow limbs.
            Actually there's not much difference between selctive breeding and genetic engineering, despite your claims. Fact is, corn is the most genetically engineered plant of all time, despite your protest. Corn is grass.

            And selective breeding has had a dangerous effect...We don't have the diversity in the gene pool for many farm animals as we used to have. The use of DNA may enable us to preserve many of the heritage breeds of farm animals.

            Maybe my comment about life expenctancy is "stupid" which makes it an appropriate response to your "smart" comment about people living too long. In your hollier-than-than opinion, just how long should people live?

            And your reference to Stalin is insulting. My comment about limiting life to 46 years was SARCASM Thom. That means it wasn't my true feelings. Where did I lose you? My original point was about LENGTHENING life spans, not shortening them, which was YOUR point.

            How about using my point that those of us that didn't have children can live longer? After all, your argument was about over-population, a problem you contributed to, but not me. You have kids and preach to me about over-population? Seriously? A big reason I chose not to have kids with my ex of 13 years was specifically because of over-population...Not that it's any of your business.

            You do understand it wasn't until science took over in the mid-late 1800s that we started living longer? We've had selective breeding for thousands of years, yet there's a good chance you're alive today due to scientific advancements.

            Out of curiousity, just how long should human life be? You didnt like it when I say make it longer, then you didn't like it when I "suggested" to make it shorter. What's your perfect age Thom? The one everyone else should have to live? Why is it EXACTLY your own life expectancy?

            Should we stop trying to increase it? Should we stop heart transplants and kidney transpants? Is it better to transplant a kidney for Kim or have him grow his own or have him die waiting? If he could grow his own, he wouldn't have to worry about a DNA match or rejection problems.

            FYI, there's more people on this planet now that have lived throughout the rest of history. We wouldn't even double the population if no one ever died. Maybe with DNA science we could triple our food output.

            And yes, there's a number of people I wish was still alive. And no, Stalin isn't one of them. I guess that's your example of "intelligent" conversation.

            But way to hurl insults when you disagree with something...Ironic.
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Actually there's not much difference between selctive breeding and genetic engineering, despite your claims. Fact is, corn is the most genetically engineered plant of all time, despite your protest. Corn is grass.

              And selective breeding has had a dangerous effect...We don't have the diversity in the gene pool for many farm animals as we used to have. The use of DNA may enable us to preserve many of the heritage breeds of farm animals.

              Maybe my comment about life expenctancy is "stupid" which makes it an appropriate response to your "smart" comment about people living too long. In your hollier-than-than opinion, just how long should people live?

              And your reference to Stalin is insulting. My comment about limiting life to 46 years was SARCASM Thom. That means it wasn't my true feelings. Where did I lose you? My original point was about LENGTHENING life spans, not shortening them, which was YOUR point.

              How about using my point that those of us that didn't have children can live longer? After all, your argument was about over-population, a problem you contributed to, but not me. You have kids and preach to me about over-population? Seriously? A big reason I chose not to have kids with my ex of 13 years was specifically because of over-population...Not that it's any of your business.

              You do understand it wasn't until science took over in the mid-late 1800s that we started living longer? We've had selective breeding for thousands of years, yet there's a good chance you're alive today due to scientific advancements.

              Out of curiousity, just how long should human life be? You didnt like it when I say make it longer, then you didn't like it when I "suggested" to make it shorter. What's your perfect age Thom? The one everyone else should have to live? Why is it EXACTLY your own life expectancy?

              Should we stop trying to increase it? Should we stop heart transplants and kidney transpants? Is it better to transplant a kidney for Kim or have him grow his own or have him die waiting? If he could grow his own, he wouldn't have to worry about a DNA match or rejection problems.

              FYI, there's more people on this planet now that have lived throughout the rest of history. We wouldn't even double the population if no one ever died. Maybe with DNA science we could triple our food output.

              And yes, there's a number of people I wish was still alive. And no, Stalin isn't one of them. I guess that's your example of "intelligent" conversation.

              But way to hurl insults when you disagree with something...Ironic.
              There's a big difference between cross and back breeding and genetic engineering. The first requires the plants being cross breed to be in the same family and compatible, the second uses genes from a different species. Corn is a grass so it was bred with a grass of the same species that produced more seeds then corn did and then was back crossed to get the final result. Corn is probably the only plant in existence that requires human intervention to exist, at least until GMO's take over then they all will. By the way the first true genetically modified vegetable was the tomato and it didn't work out that well. That was in the early 90's.
              I think people should live until they die, hopefully a natural death.
              You're saying you think it would be good for humans to live for a thousand years? But only certain ones? It sounds like your idea is more selective then mine where people live a normal life be it 50 years or 100 years. At least my way no one has to decide who lives or dies like your way seems to imply.
              Also don't imply I'm not for science. Genetically modifying something is only a small part of one science and not the whole ball of wax. It is also proving to be a dangerous path to travel.
              The American Academy of Environmental Medicine (AAEM) doesn't think so. The Academy reported that "Several animal studies indicate serious health risks associated with GM food," including infertility, immune problems, accelerated aging, faulty insulin regulation, and changes in major organs and the gastrointestinal system. The AAEM asked physicians to advise patients to avoid GM foods.Institute for Responsible Technology - GMO Dangers
              Seems if genetically modifying something with the genes of an alien organism was such a good thing everyone would be in better health

              So because I had one kid I can't talk about over population (the other three are my step-daughters which I have made clear many times before).
              I also had my daughter when I was 17 a long time before I understood anything about the world population. So does that really disqualify me from talking about over population?
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        • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          Actually corn is the most genetically modified plant there is and it's all because of native Americans. And everywhere corn was grown in the Americas a great civilization followed. Sure, we use corn too much today, but it helped many American natives survive for centuries...Want to talk about potatoes?

          And if you're so worried about our "life expectancy", maybe we should shoot everyone over 46, as this is about the "normal" expectancy of man throughout history. Maybe those of us that didn't have kids would have the right to live longer, since we aren't contributing to the population problem?

          If we could grow food faster, we could support more people for longer periods of time.

          Concerning regrowing limbs, we're closer than you think. And even if we weren't, I merely brought up a possibility. I'll put you down for "against regenerating limbs and organs".

          As far as a green cow...Here's one possibility...Space travel to a place like the moon or Mars which has plenty of sunlight but no plants. Or in the deserts of the World, where they only need water, but we don't need to waste water on growing plants to feed them. But since they don't exist, why don't you tell us the problems with "nutrition"?

          DNA research and therapy is already saving many lives or making lives better for things like Parkinsons, etc.

          And here's just one example of DNA therapy repairing asthma in mice...20 million Americans are affected by asthma.
          DNA Therapy Repairs Asthma-Related Lung Damage in Mice


          I'm guessing you can't see anything good in it either. :rolleyes:

          Kurt,

          I don't want you to get me wrong...I see your points too.

          The world is probably going exactly as it should...when all is said and done.
          The things you are talking about will, IMHO, come about.

          There is a basic law...for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
          It was talked about in ancient writings long before Newton's III law of motion.

          How much time is spent chasing the consequences of all these 'inventions'
          these day's?

          Just a small for instance...I think the Net is a great thing in many ways, hell I wouldn't have the pleasure of talking to you and others here from around the world.
          It has also opened up security holes and problems, that never would have existed without it.

          Just a small example.


          At every level there are the same equal and opposite reactions.

          It's just now, 'we' have the ability to do some really serious damage at DNA levels.

          Personally I have felt for a long time that the coming of the net and faster and faster computers will only 'snowball' things much faster. Which as far as I can tell, is happening.

          I however, I don't pretend to have any answers...know why?
          Because I don't know what the question is.


          Edit: However we will all be "hoisted by our own petard" in the end.
          I had to look up Petard...

          my kid says I'm a petard..lol

          To be ten again
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Roaddog View Post

            Kurt,

            I don't want you to get me wrong...I see your points too.

            The world is probably going exactly as it should...when all is said and done.
            The things you are talking about will, IMHO, come about.

            There is a basic law...for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
            It was talked about in ancient writings long before Newton's III law of motion.

            How much time is spent chasing the consequences of all these 'inventions'
            these day's?

            Just a small for instance...I think the Net is a great thing in many ways, hell I wouldn't have the pleasure of talking to you and others here from around the world.
            It has also opened up security holes and problems, that never would have existed without it.

            Just a small example.


            At every level there are the same equal and opposite reactions.

            It's just now, 'we' have the ability to do some really serious damage at DNA levels.

            Personally I have felt for a long time that the coming of the net and faster and faster computers will only 'snowball' things much faster. Which as far as I can tell, is happening.

            I however, I don't pretend to have any answers...know why?
            Because I don't know what the question is.


            Edit: However we will all be "hoisted by our own petard" in the end.
            I had to look up Petard...

            my kid says I'm a petard..lol

            To be ten again
            Hey Jim...

            If you read my posts, I never made claims of good or bad. And I asked a lot of questions.

            And instead of people actually THINKING about the possible benefits of a green cow, they rejected it immediately due to their preconceived ideals. We don't know if green cows would be a benefit or not, but some are even afraid to discuss any possible benefits, dismissing the concept without thought.

            But what if we could produce a cow that didn't need to eat, getting it's energy directly from the Sun like plants do, and it was safe to eat?

            I'm just not as "sure" about these questions as some others on this thread are.

            And like you said, there's a balance in everything. Most posting on this thread only spoke of the negatives, but left out the positives. I tried to balance the conversation, but was called "stupid".

            There were grave robbers in the 1800s. It was a despicable crime at the time. But from those crimes gave birth to modern medicine and a better understanding of the human body...And the results were that it greatly increased our life expectancy from about 46 years to 78 years in just a few generations.
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            • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              Hey Jim...

              If you read my posts, I never made claims of good or bad. And I asked a lot of questions.

              And instead of people actually THINKING about the possible benefits of a green cow, they rejected it immediately due to their preconceived ideals. We don't know if green cows would be a benefit or not, but some are even afraid to discuss any possible benefits, dismissing the concept without thought.

              But what if we could produce a cow that didn't need to eat, getting it's energy directly from the Sun like plants do, and it was safe to eat?

              I'm just not as "sure" about these questions as some others on this thread are.

              And like you said, there's a balance in everything. Most posting on this thread only spoke of the negatives, but left out the positives. I tried to balance the conversation, but was called "stupid".

              There were grave robbers in the 1800s. It was a despicable crime at the time. But from those crimes gave birth to modern medicine and a better understanding of the human body...And the results were that it greatly increased our life expectancy from about 46 years to 78 years in just a few generations.

              Exactly Kurt,

              That is why I can see what you are saying too.

              Of course there would be benefits, and as with anything, these abilities will also bring their own set of problems too.

              Also like Derek said...some of these scientists seem to be doing this, simply for the ability to do it.

              It's probably concerning to me, because it IS dna, as far as I know, the core of life (as far as we've gotten now, anyway).

              Lets say, mankind gives me pause, when it comes to too much power.

              A lot of what we have now has come thru less than 'standard' way's.
              Your grave robber example...

              The original article just kind of surprised me...that it had already gotten this far.
              That's all...
              like I said, (basically), there is no putting the Genie back in the proverbial bottle.

              I sometimes wish I had the ability to see a few hundred years into the future, just to see what happens.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I'll take the opposite POV...What if we can develop DNA therapy that takes the DNA of a salamander that can regrow its tail and apply it to people so they can regrow a limb that was lost or even organs such as hearts and livers...

      Or taking the growth DNA of bamboo which can grow a foot a day and apply it to wheat, corn or trees for lumber?

      How about a green cow (from chloroform) capable of direct photosynthesis so it doesn't have to eat vegetation, basically making it "solar powered"?

      Maybe take the longevity gene from redwoods that will allow us to live for 1000's of years?

      When matches first came out, people were afraid of them and called them "devil sticks". People were also afraid of electricity. I understand there are risks with DNA reserach, but there's also great benefits which are possible.
      If it could be contained to those kinds of applications, I'd agree with you. My concern is that it won't be contained to beneficial uses, or that something they "think" will be beneficial will turn out more harmful than good. Unintended consequences or intentional evil, either, is cause for concern.

      When I look at the evil man has done, and when I look at some of mankind's unintended consequences, I think there is a very real cause for concern.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    This is very similar to a thread I started a while ago where "artificial life" was created.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...e-created.html

    In both cases, it seems that the experiment was carried out just because the technology was there, with the end product having no value or consequence of any kind.

    But i am far more concerned about this than the "artificial life" experiment. With the artificial life experiment, you are still dealing with a normal 20 amino acid system found in nature. With this, you have created a completely abnormal biological system.

    We are not anyway near to understanding a tiny fraction of our 20 amino acid system yet they are already creating a 21 system. Even if no harm is done, there is a possibility that it may draw funds and intellect away from where it should be targeted in areas as Kurt mentioned earlier on.
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