The End of Bookstores and Record Shops? ... What's Next?

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

Most thought it could never happen. As the doors close on bookstores and record shops, thanks to online alternatives like Amazon.com and Itunes. In your opinion, what's the next institutional industry to fade away?

Here's my 3 guesses:

Video Rental Stores (Replaced by NetFlix type Companies)
Libraries (Replaced by Google)
Quick Print/Copy Shops (Replaced by Laser Printers)

What other fading industries do you see looming on the horizon because of the technology bulldozer?

Video rentals are all but gone. Record stores, however, thrive in the Bay Area. My guess is that many of them are selling out the back door on Amazon.

"Library" is not a business. Our local library is as busy as it ever was.

Copy shops saw this coming and diversified into full-service business services. Around here they're called FedEx Kinko's. You can get all sorts of things done there. Not going away.

As for bookstores, Barnes & Noble is doing just fine. Borders was stupidly mismanaged.

fLufF
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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

Video rentals are all but gone. Record stores, however, thrive in the Bay Area. My guess is that many of them are selling out the back door on Amazon.

"Library" is not a business. Our local library is as busy as it ever was.

Copy shops saw this coming and diversified into full-service business services. Around here they're called FedEx Kinko's. You can get all sorts of things done there. Not going away.

As for bookstores, Barnes & Noble is doing just fine. Borders was stupidly mismanaged.

fLufF
--

I guess it all depends on where you live as far as libraries go. Here in California and many other places libraries are closing or chopping the hours they're open, mainly because of budget cuts and partly because of sparse use, exept for people coming in to use the computers. I know many people have stopped going that used to go, because you can do so much research online now.

But you never answered the question, what do you think?

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fluffythewondercat

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

I guess it all depends on where you live as far as libraries go. Here in California and many are closing or chopping the hours open, mainly because of budget cuts and partly because of spare use, expect for people coming in to use the computers. I know many people have stopped going that used to go, because you can do so much research online now.

But you never answer the question, what do you think?

I'm in California, too, and library closures are a political manifestation of budget cuts imposed by insane legislators. They are not a sign of any business failing.

Your premise is flawed.

fLufF
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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

I'm in California, too, and library closures are a political manifestation of budget cuts imposed by insane legislators. They are not a sign of any business failing.

Your premise is flawed.

fLufF
--

So, you're saying the Internet had nothing to do with bookstores and records stores failing?

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kbailey1734 12 years ago

What about newspaper printing publications that are closing up shop due to the internet?
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- The Niche Man 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by kbailey1734
  
  What about newspaper printing publications that are closing up shop due to the internet?
  
  Oh yea that's a big one, you hear about at least one or two shutting down or scaling down everyday
  
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  kbailey1734 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by The Niche Man
  
  Oh yea that's a big one, you hear about at least one or two shutting down or scaling down everyday
  
  Some newspaper publications are doing paid subscriptions online I honestly don't see that lasting too long down the road. There are way too many news sites that will offer the same news for free and make plenty of money purely off advertising. No need for subscription model.
  
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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko

That's not what she's saying.
She's giving her reason as to why public libraries are cutting back due to issues in politics rather than the internet being reason.

Yes, I get what's she's saying, and I respect her opinion, no one knows yet, it's everyone's opinion at this point.

All we can do is look at the trends and the hand writing on the wall. But what about the dozens of other businesses that's on its last leg. I don't want to get everyone stuck on libraries pro or con. The question was if not that, what?

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Gordon Gekko

That's not what she's saying.
She's giving her reason as to why public libraries are cutting back due to issues in politics rather than the internet being reason.

HECK YEAH! In the 80s, librarians had PROBLEMS! They were cutting back! And that was BEFORE amazon! It was BEFORE the internet was opened up! It WOULD have been nice if they planned out infrastructure better, and had local transportation going to centers where they could localize things, and one item could be LIBRARIES! It is a concept that has been around for MILLENIA, and in its current form doable for over 100 years, but few even TRY! They could reduce the libraries by 60%, make them better, and cut costs. NAH, TOO SIMPLE!

The internet COULD end up making things LOOK the same, but you would have NO real help, NO tangible object, limited access to some special periodicals, and librarians could be all but gone.

BESIDES, librares subscribe to things like valueline! Will GOOGLE buy that? I DOUBT it! BTW just so you know.... A 1 year personal use online subscription costs only: 1 Year - $538.00! http://www.valueline.com/Products/Pr...l.aspx?id=7056 That is just one of several I could name..

Steve

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bigsean38 12 years ago

yeah,and thanks to cb movies, u may not have to go to the movies anymore!
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- The Niche Man 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bigsean38
  
  yeah,and thanks to cb movies, u may not have to go to the movies anymore!
  
  I prefer that anyway, I've gotten tired of paying for $10 popcorn and $5 small cups of soda. I could eat for a day for what they rob me at the movie concession stand.
  
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domainarama

12 years ago

What's next on the morgue list?

Universities.

When there are websites like Kahn's that teach free and when people who graduate with $xx,xxx debt and no job prospects it's only a matter of a generation before universities start being roadkill.

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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by domainarama

What's next on the morgue list?

Universities.

When there are websites like Kahn's that teach free and when people who graduate with ,xxx debt and no job prospects it's only a matter of a generation before universities start being roadkill.

That's possible, unless the Universities can step up their A game and start to match the convenience, time savings and cost of the online alternative. Universities may still be hear, but you won't need as many professors, administrators and paper pushers.

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MikeAmbrosio

12 years ago

Originally Posted by domainarama

What's next on the morgue list?

Universities.

When there are websites like Kahn's that teach free and when people who graduate with ,xxx debt and no job prospects it's only a matter of a generation before universities start being roadkill.

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

That's possible, unless the Universities can step up their A game and start to match the convenience, time savings and cost of the online alternative. Universities may still be hear, but you won't need as many professors, administrators and paper pushers.

I don't think so for a number of reasons...

First, I realize that there are those out there that think everything - especially on the internet - should be free. But there are also still MANY people who place value on something based on a price.

In other words, if I were a business owner and had a choice between hiring a college grad from NYU and a "college grad" who got his education for free somewhere, I would likely hire the former as I would question how good the education would be from a free source.

I realize this may not ALWAYS be the case, but right now, it's how I think. Even with the I.M. field - I spent years doing the FREE way of learning, but I made no real headway until I purchased better material.

And free would HAVE to mean self-taught - unless you know a bunch of college professors willing to either teach for free, or get paid by the government. There is overhead that MUST be paid, so if you go to an all on line format, that would mean self-taught.

And I don't know about you - but if I am about to go under the knife for something, I sure don't want some self-taught doctor doing the cutting.

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Dan C. Rinnert

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

Quick Print/Copy Shops (Replaced by Laser Printers)

You can do thermography on your laser printer?

How about embossing?

Die cutting?

If you need 500 envelopes with your return address, you'll sit there feeding them through your laser printer in stacks of 25 or 50?

What if you need something cut? Handcutter? You're going to handcut 500 sheets of paper? 1000?

What if you need a magnetic sign? Or a banner? Are you going to do those on your laser printer?

What if you want a printed piece to look nice, how are you going to UV coat it?

What if you want a nicer, thicker stock than your laser printer can handle?

What if you want to save money? Toner and inkjet ink are not inexpensive, especially if you have a need to print a large number of things.

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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

You can do thermography on your laser printer?

How about embossing?

Die cutting?

If you need 500 envelopes with your return address, you'll sit there feeding them through your laser printer in stacks of 25 or 50?

What if you need something cut? Handcutter? You're going to handcut 500 sheets of paper? 1000?

What if you need a magnetic sign? Or a banner? Are you going to do those on your laser printer?

What if you want a printed piece to look nice, how are you going to UV coat it?

What if you want a nicer, thicker stock than your laser printer can handle?

What if you want to save money? Toner and inkjet ink are not inexpensive, especially if you have a need to print a large number of things.

Kinko's is the only Nationwide Quick Printer left standing out of dozens ten years ago. Soon they may be in trouble, unless they can keep finding new services to add on to printing and copying.

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Dan C. Rinnert

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

Kinko's is the only Nationwide Quick Printer left standing out of dozens ten years ago. Soon they may be in trouble, unless they can keep finding new services to add on to printing and copying.

Kinko's is FedEx Office. There may not be as many nationwide quick printers as there used to be, but FedEx Office is hardly the only one. There are also The UPS Store, AlphaGraphics, OfficeMax, PIP/Sir Speedy and Allegra.

And Kinko's was problematic even before FedEx bought them out. Their decline has little to do with a decline in the printing industry and more to do with their management, pricing and quality, IMHO.

At any rate, there are still plenty of independent printing companies out there.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan C. Rinnert

Kinko's is FedEx Office. There may not be as many nationwide quick printers as there used to be, but FedEx Office is hardly the only one. There are also The UPS Store, AlphaGraphics, OfficeMax, PIP/Sir Speedy and Allegra.

And Kinko's was problematic even before FedEx bought them out. Their decline has little to do with a decline in the printing industry and more to do with their management, pricing and quality, IMHO.

At any rate, there are still plenty of independent printing companies out there.

Yeah, kinkos used to be family run and near colleges. They ALSO provided binding and computer services that today aren't a big deal, but they WERE prior to say 1985. And in the early days of the internet, they probably had high bandwidth systems.

BTW it is interesting to note that there is a good size kinkos near me. Their ****SMALLEST**** business? self service copying! IRONIC! They have computer stations a, a little business supplies/info store, binding, high volume printing, and shipping but only TWO self service printers. They ARE nice ones though. OH and they are MILES from the nearest college!

Steve

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NickBhakta

12 years ago

Hi Niche Man,

I will take your point in some respects as a positive connotation for ebook publishers, at least. Look at it this way. Amazon Kindle, iPad, and other ebook readers/tablets have given ebook publishers (including IM authors) huge opportunity to publish their works on online platforms and strike it rich. As brick-and-mortar businesses decline, more readers are turning online to read our stuff. Awesome! What do you think?

Nick Bhakta

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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by NickBhakta

Hi Niche Man,

I will take your point in some respects as a positive connotation for ebook publishers, at least. Look at it this way. Amazon Kindle, iPad, and other ebook readers/tablets have given ebook publishers (including IM authors) huge opportunity to publish their works on online platforms and strike it rich. As brick-and-mortar businesses decline, more readers are turning online to read our stuff. Awesome! What do you think?

Nick Bhakta

You hit the nail right on the head, and the good thing is we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

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RS3RS

12 years ago

I'm just waiting for the phone books to finally die out. I'm no hippie, but it actually angers me to see them throwing books at everyone's house in this web-savvy age. It seems like we're to the point that if you still want a physical phone book, you can call someone up and request one. I throw away about 3 of them every year from different companies. Google local people!

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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by RS3RS

I'm just waiting for the phone books to finally die out. I'm no hippie, but it actually angers me to see them throwing books at everyone's house in this web-savvy age. It seems like we're to the point that if you still want a physical phone book, you can call someone up and request one. I throw away about 3 of them every year from different companies. Google local people!

I agree what a waste of trees!

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Joshua Rigley

Banned 12 years ago

My local library is doing just fine, and it's unlikely to go anywhere anytime soon. Ditto for my local newspaper. They were smart with the Internet revolution. They have several websites for finding homes and jobs, plus they make full use of QR codes.

Our video rental stores, are a different matter. Hollywood video closed down in March of 2010, and Blockbuster has gone bankrupt, thanks to Netflix and Redbox. Blockbuster did try to offset the competition by offering exclusive rentals 2 weeks before Netflix and Redbox got them, but that didn't seem to work out well.

And now, Redbox is starting to offer video game rentals too. I just wish we could get a video game store in my area. Game Crazy closed down with Hollywood.

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Online Bliss

12 years ago

Auto junk yards.
They won't even tell me what they have in the yard.
You have to pay first and then go inside and look to find
if they have what you need. Horrible customer service.

Most sell on ebay or an online store now.
At least you can search for what you need
and who has it at no cost.

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RS3RS

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Online Bliss

Auto junk yards.
They won't even tell me what they have in the yard.
You have to pay first and then go inside and look to find
if they have what you need. Horrible customer service.

Most sell on ebay or an online store now.
At least you can search for what you need
and who has it at no cost.

Good one. My experiences with junkyards have been nothing but terrible, and they're everywhere here in the midwest. eBay motors is a lifesaver.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The Niche Man

Most thought it could never happen. As the doors close on bookstores and record shops, thanks to online alternatives like Amazon.com and Itunes. In your opinion, what's the next institutional industry to fade away?

Here's my 3 guesses:

Video Rental Stores (Replaced by NetFlix type Companies)

NOPE! Too complicated, etc... I bet redbox takes over. The local drug store here and various airports already do. It has ALL the benefits of netflix, NO bandwidth problems, NO storage problems.

Libraries (Replaced by Google)

Doubt it. How about replacing libraries with.... Wait for it... LIBRARIES! It has already started. I don't know about now but I once went to a library to read this one book that cost over $600/year! I don't think Google would do things like that!

What other fading industries do you see looming on the horizon because of the technology bulldozer?[/SIZE]

Some will merely change. Heck, I was surprised block buster lasted as long as it did. I SERIOUSLY expected the first block buster I saw to go bankrupt within 3 months! They COULD turn the realestate into ANYTHING and use their contacts to compete with other rental companies!

Google can only provide so much. And it is NOT a very reliable method. AGAIN, librares can compete. Of course libraries probably WILL cut back on branches.

In the 70s I was asked about something and came up with a FANTASTIC idea. It could have set the arcade industry ON IT'S EAR! Today, it is like DUH, etc.... But imagine it is around 1976 or so..... An arcade with NO arcade machines!!!!!!!!! Just COMPUTERS hooked up to a console where you can tell it what game you want to play and BANG! Lower cost, potentially a better game, and you can play ANYTHING you want and even play with others! Has ANYONE ever done that? Of course TODAY, you have handheld game consoles and can rent games. So it is ALMOST the same. ALMOST. BTW good games in the early/mid 1970s were hard to get. In the 70s to 90s they were pretty expensive. Today, apparently, they are cheaper.

Steve

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hardraysnight 12 years ago

Interesting posts

I have just returned to my hometown after several years away, time off for good behaviour. I do not live in usa, not everyone does

There is now one record shop, which is a chain operation and combined with a coffee shop, as well as the department stores. There were seven. But prices of CDs have dropped by 25%.

Bookshops have halved and tend to be more specialised.

Video shops are decimated, it is hard to find one now.

I can only conclude downloading has caused this situation. Not pay to apple garbage downloads but file sharing and peer to peer programmes.

I have just returned from Asia. South Korea has a vibrant music industry, the core of which is owner operators. Book shops are big business everywhere.

China is a little different owing to the ready availablility of pirate or copy materials, but my Beatles collection cost about $10, latest videos less than 2. But books shops are plentiful in China, with many street vendors selling books for a few cents to huge emporiums offering the latest world publications at world publications price.

It may be a western trend, it may be time, it may be economics, it may be a cultural change in purchasing or people are question the validity of the existing copyright agreements.

Excuse me, i am off to torrents
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seasoned

12 years ago

Book stores are SPECIALIZING now? There was a bookstore I knew that apparently specialized in one thing, and it kind of morphed into a cross between obscure electronics and obscure computer science. WHAT do I mean obscure? Well, if you wanted a book on APL, MUMPs, or even SNOBAL, THEY HAD IT!

The last time I went there, it was not the same AT ALL! At last their site LOOKS nice NOW: Opamp Technical Books - Technical Book Catalog

So what other shops are really specializing?

Steve

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Roaddog

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Book stores are SPECIALIZING now? There was a bookstore I knew that apparently specialized in one thing, and it kind of morphed into a cross between obscure electronics and obscure computer science. WHAT do I mean obscure? Well, if you wanted a book on APL, MUMPs, or even SNOBAL, THEY HAD IT!

The last time I went there, it was not the same AT ALL! At last their site LOOKS nice NOW: Opamp Technical Books - Technical Book Catalog

So what other shops are really specializing?

Steve

I remember Opamp, Steve...I used to go in there for my construction code books.

That was before I even had a computer.

Over on Sycamore off Santa Monica Blvd.

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Roaddog

I remember Opamp, Steve...I used to go in there for my construction code books.

That was before I even had a computer.

Over on Sycamore off Santa Monica Blvd.

I used to go there to browse, etc... as I recall, THAT was where I got my first UNIX work alike to actually try. It was a program called Minix. If only I knew that a guy would take that and use it as an inspiration to create what I REALLY wanted. He created an OS called Linux!

And YEAH, I think I went over there before I had a computer also.

Steve
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dagaul101

12 years ago

I think the video stores are next to go, a little sad as we all remember hours of entertainment from these stores, but the world is moving on when you can watch a movie with a click of a mouse

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ThomM

12 years ago

I don't see an end, but more a down sizing.
The major Book and Music chain stores are gone here.
The small 'mom and pop' book and music stores are still here and doing fine.
Most of the libraries here are doing good also, though they do suffer from the budget cuts. The smaller businesses that are surviving do keep current or are niche type stores. For example there is a record store in Albany called Blue Note Record Shop that only sells vinyl records, it's been there for around 50 years.

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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Greg Wildermuth

Record stores will always exist because vinyl is superior to CDs or computer files.

Book stores will always exist because there will always be people who like holding a book in their hands and who don't like reading on a computer screen (no matter how small and convenient it is)

My guess is that TV will disappear. It's useless and you can watch anything you want on the internet.

Yes, they will always exist, but they'll be harder to find, you won't see them in every Shopping Mall, street corner or neighborhood. In fact, you'll probably have to look online to find one, ironic isn't it?

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Aviator Joe

12 years ago

newspapers will definitely get obsolete in my opinion.

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Sunfyre7896

12 years ago

Agree with Aviator Joe, newspaper sales are down drastically tens of percentage points with our main paper being down 80%. They are thinking of closing down their print department and just keeping with online news broadcasts and pages.

The libraries here are doing just fine as well as Barnes and Noble. I think people will still want to browse through soft and hardcover books as gifts and for personal use. I have a Nook Color that I wanted so badly, but I end up getting many for my laptop, which I hook up to my 48" HDTv via VGA so that I can read the words on the larger screen. It's just more convenient to download a book after looking into it from the comfort of my chair. I still like going into Barnes and Noble and the library from time to time just to peruse and enjoy the atmosphere I grew up with.

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Renavon

12 years ago

I completely agree with the quick print shops, but i dont think libraries and video rental stores will die out. People enjoy getting a dvd and sitting down at home and sticking it in the dvd player. And the same with the library, i personally would never read a full book on a computer as i want to be comfortable lying in bed or something. Although things like the kindle will bring less business, i doubt it will ever die out

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M A Kay

12 years ago

You are right niche man..old ways are replaced now with new technologies...but hope not reach the extent to where computers all does the work and man power is no longer needed

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JustinDupre

12 years ago

Traditional businesses such as cd stores, video rental stores, etc. must learn to evolve and make use of the available technology in order to sty in business. Although we won't see any of them completely disappearing soon, anyone who wishes to start a cd store business should think twice about it.

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philipf

12 years ago

another trend is online banking,
banks will never be closed but more and more of their transactions are going online.
i guess in developed countries, more than 50% of the financial transaction is done online (fund transfer, bills payment, and even payroll), with no hard cash being turn over to the other. but i guess it's more on convenience.

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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by philipf

another trend is online banking,
banks will never be closed but more and more of their transactions are going online.
i guess in developed countries, more than 50% of the financial transaction is done online (fund transfer, bills payment, and even payroll), with no hard cash being turn over to the other. but i guess it's more on convenience.

Good point, for example, this past July was the first time I've physically been inside a bank this year. And I know many other people who haven't been inside one this year. No need to really, that's the future of banking. Online, by phone ... or by smart phone and your done!

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zabereu

12 years ago

Well however technology might be improving nothing can beat a book with nice cover & the feel of pages as you read through it i don`t think you can get that feeling by reading e-books or whatsoever so i don`t think publishing industry is not gonna die that fast

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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by zabereu

Well however technology might be improving nothing can beat a book with nice cover & the feel of pages as you read through it i don`t think you can get that feeling by reading e-books or whatsoever so i don`t think publishing industry is not gonna die that fast

I agree physical book publishing will never die, but right now ebooks is definietely helping to give it heart palpitations or at the very least headaches.

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Thomas Wilkinson

12 years ago

Hmmm, Anybody seen a One Hour Photo store lately. Film of any kind is
getting more obsolete by the minute.

Thomas

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The Niche Man 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Wilkinson

Hmmm, Anybody seen a One Hour Photo store lately. Film of any kind is
getting more obsolete by the minute.

Thomas

Good point, there's a generation of kids who don't even know what film is. Wow!
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MikeAmbrosio 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Wilkinson

Hmmm, Anybody seen a One Hour Photo store lately. Film of any kind is
getting more obsolete by the minute.

Thomas

Yeah, very true.

Now, the only time my wife uses any sort of photo place is when she's scrapbooking and needs like 100 photos printed. We found it's cheaper to upload the photos to CVS on line and pick them up later that day or the next. Cheaper than the ink and photo paper for our printer...

But at no time do we use film. All digital pics.
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dallas playboy

12 years ago

Gone are Ford Crown Victoria, Oldsmobile 88,98, Lincoln Town cars, Mercury Marques, etc. ; Once upon a time you could distinguish one car from another. Chrome, fancy designs like the 57 chev., Eldorados, Pontiac Pariesian, all gone.

Now we have rubber bumpers, plastic , and boxes for cars. No creativity, no pride showing your friends your new car.

No more drive-ins on Saturday night, with the top down, and your special lady driving
shotgun. Who wants to show off in a two cylinder coffee pot from China?

I still have my six year old Lincoln, and my eight year old Ford pick em up, and they
look and drive just fine.

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horowitzz

12 years ago

This is what I've been dreading ever since the all-around gadgets started popping out and became available to almost everyone. People will lose their business because of such developments... Oh well, but it cant be helped I guess..
Still, I think there's a way to preserve those brick and mortar ones inspite of the technology

Shaw Capital Management

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The Niche Man

12 years ago

Originally Posted by horowitzz

This is what I've been dreading ever since the all-around gadgets started popping out and became available to almost everyone. People will lose their business because of such developments... Oh well, but it cant be helped I guess..
Still, I think there's a way to preserve those brick and mortar ones inspite of the technology

Shaw Capital Management

One thing I notice about this paradigm shift. The brick and mortar stores left standing will be the cream of the crop. Because the "online" bulldozer will weed the rest out.

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