How Much TAX Do YOU Pay?

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Hi! I'm just wondering... How much TAX do you pay on your online income?

Pesonally I pay a VAT on 25% and 28% in TAX. So if I make $1000, I have a net income on $540:

$1000 - 25% VAT
= $750

$750 - 28% TAX
= $540 in net income
  • Profile picture of the author JoeUK
    Too much! Living in the UK we pretty much get absolutely butt raped for tax to support our monarchs' lavish luxury lifestyles

    Would love to relocate to US at some point in future but I know it ain't easy unless you got the $$$...
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      You may want to pick up a free subscription to Live and Invest Overseas. There is a lot of good information there.

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      Moving to the US from almost anywhere might be the financial equivalent of moving from Hiroshima to Nagasaki in August of 1945.

      Give long consideration to your decision.

      Best of luck.

      Joe Mobley



      Originally Posted by JoeUK View Post

      Too much! Living in the UK we pretty much get absolutely butt raped for tax to support our monarchs' lavish luxury lifestyles

      Would love to relocate to US at some point in future but I know it ain't easy unless you got the $$$...
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      • Profile picture of the author mattmax
        Taxes are a pain for the mid sized independent (speaking from a US perspective here).

        I recently incorporated and set up payroll services, etc. By incorporating, and paying myself as an employee, I get quite a few benefits. It lowers my overall tax burden (legally), plus I now have paystubs, so in the event that I want to do something like finance a car, or anything else that requires proof of income, I can easily provide it without having to show tax returns.

        The bottom line, I think, is to meet with a qualified financial advisor in the country you reside in, and see what your options are. For most people in business for themselves, if they are not working with such a person, they are paying more in taxes than they have to.

        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Moving to the US from almost anywhere might be the financial equivalent of moving from Hiroshima to Nagasaki in August of 1945.
        Speaking as a resident of the US, I'm happy that there is a perception that we are a good country for people to move to in order to escape the pain elsewhere. An influx of motivated productive people who will spend their earnings into local economies is a good thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JoeUK View Post

      Living in the UK we pretty much get absolutely butt raped for tax to support our monarchs' lavish luxury lifestyles
      Our monarch is actually a net contributor to the economy, Joe, not a drain on it: and she voluntarily pays income tax on all of her earnings, including Civil List payments. And that's without even mentioning what a huge tourist attraction and invisible earnings booster she is to the nation ...
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Our monarch is actually a net contributor to the economy, Joe, not a drain on it: and she voluntarily pays income tax on all of her earnings, including Civil List payments. And that's without even mentioning what a huge tourist attraction and invisible earnings booster she is to the nation ...
        I bet the queen gets a relatively SMALL part of it, if ANY. There are a LOT of people in the royal family that aren't that well off. On the OTHER hand, there are EU fees, and fees for people in parliment, and all the "entitlements".

        But yeah, Great Britain wouldn't seem quite the same without the queen. She IS an ambassador and attraction.

        I don't know about the british queen, but I have heard from some about the danish queen and the danish one seems like a nice lady, and a normal sort of person. Keep your eyes open, she may be in the same line as you! Maybe the british one is similar when she doesn't have to deal with the regular pomp and all.

        And he queen of great britain isn't even the richest woman in the world. Apparently, she isn't even the richest woman in great britain. She certainly WOULD be if she got all the taxes.

        2007 forbes:
        Last year's movie sensation , The Queen, about Queen Elizabeth II, captured the monarch's lavish lifestyle with footage of her opulent castles and many servants. Not a bad life, but she comes in a mere 11th on our ranking of the world's richest royalty, worth an estimated $600 million. She can take some comfort in the fact that she's the world's wealthiest female ruler and just one of two women to make our list.

        In the top spot is the Sultan of Brunei, worth $22 billion, 36 times more than the Queen of England. The Sultan who inherited the riches of an unbroken 600-year-old Muslim dynasty recently celebrated his 40th anniversary as ruler of the oil-rich land. The only other Asian monarch to make the cut is the world's longest-reigning living monarch, King Bhumibol Adulyadej, the deity-revered king of Thailand, who we estimate is worth $5 billion.
        Forbes 2007: Forbes estimated Rowling's net worth to be US$1 billion

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author JoeUK
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Our monarch is actually a net contributor to the economy, Joe, not a drain on it: and she voluntarily pays income tax on all of her earnings, including Civil List payments. And that's without even mentioning what a huge tourist attraction and invisible earnings booster she is to the nation ...
        I understand what you're saying about the tourist revenue generation factor but I can't accept that the royal family 'earn' and positively contribute. They reside in a privately guarded palace, filled with priceless jewels and artifacts that were originally obtained through violence and oppression, are the biggest land and property owners on earth and have done relatively nothing to secure these privileges - they were simply born - the 'divine right of kings', I've got to say it disgusts me even more so when you look at the poverty and degeneration that exists around us today. Besides, they fundamentally produce and control the money anyway so to 'contribute' that which you create yourself and ultimately own is cheating somewhat in my book :p
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by JoeUK View Post

          I understand what you're saying about the tourist revenue generation factor but I can't accept that the royal family 'earn' and positively contribute.
          I don't mean it rudely, but your inability to accept it doesn't reduce its truth an iota.

          Originally Posted by JoeUK View Post

          I've got to say it disgusts me
          We'd never have guessed ...

          Originally Posted by JoeUK View Post

          they fundamentally produce and control the money anyway
          This part's nonsense: the British Royal family has absolutely no connection at all with the production or control of money.

          Your contentions about the morality of such extreme wealth being (undeniably) concentrated in the hands of so few, who have themselves done little for it, would be FAR better made - and received - if you left out all the factually incorrect invective which just makes it trivially easy for people to dispute what you're saying. Try reading Tony Benn's diaries, if you want to see how to argue against these things and actually have a chance of persuading some others to your point of view.
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          • Profile picture of the author JoeUK
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            I don't mean it rudely, but your inability to accept it doesn't reduce its truth an iota.




            We'd never have guessed ...



            This part's nonsense: the British Royal family has absolutely no connection at all with the production or control of money.

            Your contentions about the morality of such extreme wealth being (undeniably) concentrated in the hands of so few, who have themselves done little for it, would be FAR better made - and received - if you left out all the factually incorrect invective which just makes it trivially easy for people to dispute what you're saying. Try reading Tony Benn's diaries, if you want to see how to argue against these things and actually have a chance of persuading some others to your point of view.
            Haha, fair enough, I suppose it's how you define 'earning'.

            The royal mint, her majesty's revenue and customs, her majesty's treasury and the fact that her face is present on our currency is all inconsequential then? or merely coincidence?

            Again, yes, I understand what you're saying and maybe I was a little hasty and inaccurate with my posting, it is the 'banksters' that create and control the money However I (and many others too) have a sneaky suspicion that she may have a little more 'sway' in things than we are led to believe... or maybe I'm just being paranoid and she is a harmless lovely little old lady after all

            I shall check out your recommendation, thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Azarna
      Originally Posted by JoeUK View Post

      Too much! Living in the UK we pretty much get absolutely butt raped for tax to support our monarchs' lavish luxury lifestyles

      Would love to relocate to US at some point in future but I know it ain't easy unless you got the $$$...
      We only have one monarch, so why do you put it in the plural?


      Comparing the paying of taxes to being raped is a really disgusting thing to say. I am stunned that you can so glibly do so.
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  • Profile picture of the author pennington33
    wow thats alot even for where i live in new york state. fudge nuggets lol!
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

    Hi! I'm just wondering... How much TAX do you pay on your online income?

    Pesonally I pay a VAT on 25% and 28% in TAX. So if I make $1000, I have a net income on $540:

    $1000 - 25% VAT
    = $750

    $750 - 28% TAX
    = $540 in net income
    VAT is added tax to your retail price though so it's not yours to begin with, though you could argue that without it the retail price could be higher.

    The higher tax band for income tax in the UK is 50% for high earners at £150k pa!

    Shocking stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author taskemann
      Originally Posted by webcore View Post

      VAT is added tax to your retail price though so it's not yours to begin with, though you could argue that without it the retail price could be higher.

      The higher tax band for income tax in the UK is 50% for high earners at £150k pa!

      Shocking stuff.
      Yes, I know that the VAT is a tax that the customer shall pay, but the problem is that not everyone understands this. And the VAT is different from country to country.
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  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    I am just putting my toe in the water about leaving the US. I can't afford to live here as an independent contractor. I can't afford healthcare.

    I am assuming the high taxes paid by taskemann are due to a socialistic government? Is your health care covered?
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    • Profile picture of the author taskemann
      Originally Posted by LeeLee View Post

      I am just putting my toe in the water about leaving the US. I can't afford to live here as an independent contractor. I can't afford healthcare.

      I am assuming the high taxes paid by taskemann are due to a socialistic government? Is your health care covered?
      Yes, the health care is covered here.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I thought VAT is a sales tax that is payable by customers. The role of the vendor is collect the tax from the customer on behalf of the government. It is not a direct tax on the vendor.

    Concerning the queen's income.

    "In the United Kingdom and during the British Empire, the hereditary revenues of Crown lands were a feature until the start of the reign of George III when the Crown Estate was surrendered to the Parliament of Great Britain in return for a fixed civil list payment"

    It has been reported that the monarch has the option of taking the Crown lands back and giving up the civil list in return. In fact, this is the situation in Thailand. There is no civil list but the Royal family derives income from the "Crown Property Bureau", whose assets are reported to be worth $30 billion.
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    • Profile picture of the author taskemann
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      I thought VAT is a sales tax that is payable by customers. The role of the vendor is collect the tax from the customer on behalf of the government. It is not a direct tax on the vendor.
      Yes, that's correct derekwong28! But the problem is (let us say for example with clickbank) that the VAT costumers are paying goes to ClickBank, and not the vendor, so the vendor have to add the VAT to the product price. So the costumers are paying double VAT's!

      One goes to ClickBank. ClickBank then pay it to the government.

      And the other VAT goes to the vendor's government!
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

        Yes, that's correct derekwong28! But the problem is (let us say for example with clickbank) that the VAT costumers are paying goes to ClickBank, and not the vendor, so the vendor have to add the VAT to the product price. So the costumers are paying double VAT's!

        One goes to ClickBank. ClickBank then pay it to the government.

        And the other VAT goes to the vendor's government!
        Ethically, under US law, and under many other laws, it is ILLEGAL to collect tax for the government without paying it! In California, for example, it is ILLEGAL to collect ANY sales tax unless it is the correct amount and paid to the state! Go ahead, ask them, they will tell you!

        If clickbank collected VAT, and did not pay it, it would be FRAUD, which is a felony in the US.

        SO, if THEY collect the VAT, and therefore must pay it, WHY do YOU have to collect vat on goods THEY sell?

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author taskemann
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          Ethically, under US law, and under many other laws, it is ILLEGAL to collect tax for the government without paying it! In California, for example, it is ILLEGAL to collect ANY sales tax unless it is the correct amount and paid to the state! Go ahead, ask them, they will tell you!

          If clickbank collected VAT, and did not pay it, it would be FRAUD, which is a felony in the US.

          SO, if THEY collect the VAT, and therefore must pay it, WHY do YOU have to collect vat on goods THEY sell?

          Steve
          Because one have to pay 25% VAT on absolutely all of the business income here in Norway.

          So ClickBank have to collect VAT to the US government, and I have to collect VAT to the Norwegian government.

          So the costumer have to pay "double" VAT's when they order something from ClickBank.

          (Go to a ClickBank order form and see for your self.)
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

            Because one have to pay 25% VAT on absolutely all of the business income here in Norway.

            So ClickBank have to collect VAT to the US government, and I have to collect VAT to the Norwegian government.

            So the costumer have to pay "double" VAT's when they order something from ClickBank.

            (Go to a ClickBank order form and see for your self.)
            It is currently ****ILLEGAL**** for ANY company, really planet wide, but certainly US wide, to collect VAT tax for the US! It is FRAUD, since the US has NO VAT tax! THAT is why it is collected ONLY on some EU items!

            If clickbank IS collecting vat for the US, it is fraud and ILLEGAL! They can be subject to HEFTY fines! They do NOT collect it from people in the US!

            The way it is supposed to work is THIS! A clickbank "vendor" is NOT a vendor! They give it to clickbank for FREE!!!!!!!! You decide a commission for YOU and affiliates. THEY are the vendor, and THEY handle the FULL sales transaction! What you get is effectively a COMMISSION, and treated as such. You STILL have to pay income taxes, but NO sales taxes!

            BTW if they DID collect it for US people, it would be collected as elsewhere now, on sales TO US customers. After all, they don't charge norway customers german VAT, etc...

            Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author CMartin
            Disclaimer: the following is not legal advice - you should seek legal advice from an accountant.

            Jimmy,
            Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

            Hi! I'm just wondering... How much TAX do you pay on your online income?

            Pesonally I pay a VAT on 25% and 28% in TAX. So if I make $1000, I have a net income on $540:

            $1000 - 25% VAT
            = $750

            $750 - 28% TAX
            = $540 in net income
            Note: bolded red by me.

            From what I researched it seems VAT in Norway works in the same way than in EU.

            Wikipedia: Taxation in Norway - VAT
            Value added tax (Norwegian: merverdiavgift) is a tax on consumption that must be paid on domestic sales of goods and services liable for tax in all links in the chain of distribution and on imports.

            Guide to Value Added Tax in Norway - Exemptions
            (In Exports section)
            The supply of goods and services to abroad is zero-rated.
            [...]
            For services to be regarded as exported and consequently zero-rated, the service must, as a general rule, be used entirely abroad.

            Guide to Value Added Tax in Norway - Taxable transactions
            The supply of digital products, such as music or software via the Internet, is regarded as the supply of a service.
            So, exports are exempt (or zero-rated) of VAT (like in EU) - sales of goods or services made to customers outside Norway (exports) are exempt (or zero-rated) of VAT.

            A Norwegian seller:
            1. only have to collect VAT (and then pay it to the government) when someone from Norway buys *directly* from them (domestic sale);
            2. do NOT have to collect VAT from customers [that reside] outside Norway (exports).

            Note about 1: This *only* applies when you are selling directly to Norway consumers, using for example PayPal to collect payments. If you're using ClickBank, you don't have to collect any VAT (see below).

            Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

            Yes, I know that the VAT is a tax that the customer shall pay, but the problem is that not everyone understands this. And the VAT is different from country to country.
            I'm sure people in Norway understand they have to pay VAT for sales that you (as a Norwegian) made to them. People outside Norway that buy from you do not have to pay VAT and you don't have to pay any VAT to the government.

            Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

            Yes, that's correct derekwong28! But the problem is (let us say for example with clickbank) that the VAT costumers are paying goes to ClickBank, and not the vendor, so the vendor have to add the VAT to the product price. So the costumers are paying double VAT's!

            One goes to ClickBank. ClickBank then pay it to the government.

            And the other VAT goes to the vendor's government!
            Incorrect - with ClickBank customers are not paying double VAT and you cannot add any VAT to the price.

            ClickBank, 2CheckOut or Plimus are resellers - they buy the product/service from vendors and then resell it to the customer.

            When you use ClickBank (or 2CheckOut or Plimus) to sell your products/services you are not the seller - ClickBank is.

            When you sell your products/services through ClickBank (a reseller), you are only responsible for taxes resulting from the sales to ClickBank. ClickBank is responsible for taxes between them and customers and you don't need to worry about it. To the customer, you are not the seller... ClickBank is.

            Here's some info from ClickBank:
            ClickBank Retail & Wholesale Pricing
            At the time of purchase by a customer, ClickBank purchases the Product from the applicable Vendor at a wholesale price, which can vary by Product type, price, and currency, and resells the Product to the customer.
            [...]
            ClickBank also collects and remits the European Union Value Added Tax ("EU VAT") and other applicable taxes as required.
            Regarding VAT, is ClickBank that collects it... not you. When a customer resides in a country that has VAT, ClickBank collects it and then remits to the respective country.

            That's one of the advantages of using ClickBank, 2CheckOut and Plimus (resellers) - when applicable, they collect taxes from customers and you don't have to worry about it.

            Technically, when you use ClickBank to sell your products/services you only have one customer: ClickBank, the reseller.

            So, when a Norwegian or EU resident sells a product/service to ClickBank (USA), the sale is an export and is exempt (or zero-rated) of VAT.

            When you receive the money from ClickBank you don't have to pay any VAT because you didn't collect any VAT - it was an export. You will only have to pay income tax (or other taxes) if applicable.

            ...

            Only saw this when was posting the above:
            Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

            Because one have to pay 25% VAT on absolutely all of the business income here in Norway.

            So ClickBank have to collect VAT to the US government, and I have to collect VAT to the Norwegian government.

            So the costumer have to pay "double" VAT's when they order something from ClickBank.

            (Go to a ClickBank order form and see for your self.)
            Read above. ClickBank DOES NOT collect VAT to the US government - it collects VAT for the countries where VAT is required.

            When you go to ClickBank to make a purchase and select Norway as your country of residence, ClickBank will collect VAT from you and then will send it to the Norwegian government. If you select another country (from EU for example) ClickBank will collect EU VAT and then remit it to EU.

            Also, you don't have to pay VAT on sales that are exports - read above... or better yet, consult an accountant


            HTH
            Carlos
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            • Profile picture of the author taskemann
              Originally Posted by CMartin View Post

              Disclaimer: the following is not legal advice - you should seek legal advice from an accountant.

              Jimmy,

              Note: bolded red by me.

              From what I researched it seems VAT in Norway works in the same way than in EU.



              So, exports are exempt (or zero-rated) of VAT (like in EU) - sales of goods or services made to customers outside Norway (exports) are exempt (or zero-rated) of VAT.

              A Norwegian seller:
              1. only have to collect VAT (and then pay it to the government) when someone from Norway buys *directly* from them (domestic sale);
              2. do NOT have to collect VAT from customers [that reside] outside Norway (exports).

              Note about 1: This *only* applies when you are selling directly to Norway consumers, using for example PayPal to collect payments. If you're using ClickBank, you don't have to collect any VAT (see below).


              I'm sure people in Norway understand they have to pay VAT for sales that you (as a Norwegian) made to them. People outside Norway that buy from you do not have to pay VAT and you don't have to pay any VAT to the government.



              Incorrect - with ClickBank customers are not paying double VAT and you cannot add any VAT to the price.

              ClickBank, 2CheckOut or Plimus are resellers - they buy the product/service from vendors and then resell it to the customer.

              When you use ClickBank (or 2CheckOut or Plimus) to sell your products/services you are not the seller - ClickBank is.

              When you sell your products/services through ClickBank (a reseller), you are only responsible for taxes resulting from the sales to ClickBank. ClickBank is responsible for taxes between them and customers and you don't need to worry about it. To the customer, you are not the seller... ClickBank is.

              Here's some info from ClickBank:

              Regarding VAT, is ClickBank that collects it... not you. When a customer resides in a country that has VAT, ClickBank collects it and then remits to the respective country.

              That's one of the advantages of using ClickBank, 2CheckOut and Plimus (resellers) - when applicable, they collect taxes from customers and you don't have to worry about it.

              Technically, when you use ClickBank to sell your products/services you only have one customer: ClickBank, the reseller.

              So, when a Norwegian or EU resident sells a product/service to ClickBank (USA), the sale is an export and is exempt (or zero-rated) of VAT.

              When you receive the money from ClickBank you don't have to pay any VAT because you didn't collect any VAT - it was an export. You will only have to pay income tax (or other taxes) if applicable.

              ...

              Only saw this when was posting the above:


              Read above. ClickBank DOES NOT collect VAT to the US government - it collects VAT for the countries where VAT is required.

              When you go to ClickBank to make a purchase and select Norway as your country of residence, ClickBank will collect VAT from you and then will send it to the Norwegian government. If you select another country (from EU for example) ClickBank will collect EU VAT and then remit it to EU.

              Also, you don't have to pay VAT on sales that are exports - read above... or better yet, consult an accountant


              HTH
              Carlos
              Ok, thank you. So you basically try to tell me that ClickBank is collecting the VAT for me?
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              • Profile picture of the author Thomas
                Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

                Ok, thank you. So you basically try to tell me that ClickBank is collecting the VAT for me?
                Technically, no, that's not it; he's telling you that YOU don't have to collect any VAT, nor does Clickbank collect it FOR you (it's never your money anyway )... they collect it for, and remit it to, the relevant government, with no involvement from you.

                Here's a quicker version:

                1. Clickbank works like this: You sell your product to them, and they sell it to the end user.

                2. Because YOUR customer (Clickbank) is in the United States, YOU don't/can't charge VAT.

                3. If the end user is in Europe (the EU, Norway, etc.), then CLICKBANK charges them VAT and CLICKBANK remits that tax to the relevant authorities. You have nothing to do with it.

                Tommy.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

                Ok, thank you. So you basically try to tell me that ClickBank is collecting the VAT for me?
                YEP! Several years ago, the EU told large companies, like Clickbank, that they have to honor their law, so THEY collect the vat, from residents of EU members, and pay it to the proper government. The US currently has no such tax, so they aren't affected. This not only means that you don't have to worry about norway, but you don't have to worry about any OTHER states EITHER!

                Most of the large vendor model processors handle things the SAME way! PAYPAL and authorize.net are different, and you DO have to deal with VAT with them. AGAIN though, if a person uses paypal to pay for a clickbank order, clickbank handles THAT also!

                Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author CMartin
                Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

                So you basically try to tell me that ClickBank is collecting the VAT for me?
                See what Tommy wrote.

                Again, when you use ClickBank to sell products, ClickBank does not collect VAT on "your behalf" nor "for you". The entity that sells to the customer is ClickBank (not you) and they collect VAT for the countries where VAT is required and then remits it.

                ...

                This "tax" subject can be very confusing and complex and that's why I recommend you to seek advice from an accountant or from your tax authorities to get the whole "tax picture" and to prevent bad surprises.

                For example in your OP, you didn't refer any Social Security contributions... and from what I've read, you probably might want to take them into account

                Carlos
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    Unfortunately, I think a VAT is coming to the United States.

    Joe Mobley


    Originally Posted by taskemann View Post


    Pesonally I pay a VAT...
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

      Unfortunately, I think a VAT is coming to the United States.

      Joe Mobley
      There is a rather INSULTING expression.....

      "Monkey see monkey do!"! I think monkeys are smarter than that, in this case, but it is true of the US government with taxes. The OWS group, etc..., have morphed into an investing "vat", They have been talking about a general vat for well over a decade.

      I once called into a talk show and said I thought a SET rate of a bit lower that was FIXED to REPLACE the sales tax would be a GOOD idea. The jerk actually asked me how that was different from what they were suggesting, and didn't let me on. My plan was TOTALLY different. MY plan was cheaper, easier, and would SAVE the government potentially BILLIONS on the very first day, and TRILLIONS in a decade. They'd never do it though. NO! History dictates that they WILL get a VAT, in ADDITION to the state sales tax(one way my idea was different), and will charge AT LEAST 35% which will climb(ANOTHER way my plan was different), AND keep the IRS to charge MORE taxes!(ANOTHER way my plan was different)

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I don't think you'll find the taxes in the US any better. Lots of hidden taxes most people aren't even aware they're paying.
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    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Lilly
    I'm currently paying 0% income tax, and around 15% for Social Security and Medicare. I hope to eliminate that soon.

    I moved out of the US and am able to take advantage of some legal tax loopholes (especially the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion). If I incorporate my business outside the US, I'd be able to stop "contributing" to Social Security and Medicare too.

    There's more accounting paperwork to deal with, but I actually enjoy trying to find all the cracks in the system. To me, it's an interesting puzzle to solve.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Scott,

      You didn't mention where you live now (is the Panama hat in the avatar a hint?)

      I'll bet you get way more for your money than if you were in the states. And with less hassle.


      Joe Mobley


      Originally Posted by Scott Lilly View Post

      I'm currently paying 0% income tax, and around 15% for Social Security and Medicare. I hope to eliminate that soon.

      I moved out of the US and am able to take advantage of some legal tax loopholes (especially the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion). If I incorporate my business outside the US, I'd be able to stop "contributing" to Social Security and Medicare too.

      There's more accounting paperwork to deal with, but I actually enjoy trying to find all the cracks in the system. To me, it's an interesting puzzle to solve.
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Lilly
        Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

        Scott,

        You didn't mention where you live now (is the Panama hat in the avatar a hint?)

        I'll bet you get way more for your money than if you were in the states. And with less hassle.


        Joe Mobley
        I'm in Asuncion, Paraguay now. Montevideo, Uruguay really wasn't for me, so I moved on a few months ago. I like it here so far, but summer hasn't hit yet. I hear it will be worst than Houston, as far as the heat and humidity go.

        And yes, my money goes much further here. Life is also much more relaxing.

        World trivia fact: The Panama hat is not actually from Panama. They're made in Ecuador.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    JoeUK,

    MOST currency has a complex pattern on it to help prevent forgery. In SOME cases it may be a bird, a landmark, or complex bankground scene. In other cases, it is a monarch, historical figure, or head of state. The US has washington, lincoln, grant, franklin, etc... Do THEY own the treasure in the US? They are all DEAD!

    Can a bird own a nations wealth?

    HEY, if NO person inherited money or power, the world would probably be better off. I actually agree with you there. Why should one have to scrimp and save, and indignify themselves to live a meager life, while others are GIVEN a lavish lifestyle? BUT, as alexa says, it is the way things are.

    Still, the British Royal family, as I demonstrated, doesn't own that much. The current president probably has more. The jewels, etc... are considered a national treasure, and I doubt the queen could sell them. The SAME goes for the palace. YEAH, the guards may be paid out of the public, but probably not THAT much.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author JoeUK
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      JoeUK,

      MOST currency has a complex pattern on it to help prevent forgery. In SOME cases it may be a bird, a landmark, or complex bankground scene. In other cases, it is a monarch, historical figure, or head of state. The US has washington, lincoln, grant, franklin, etc... Do THEY own the treasure in the US? They are all DEAD!

      Can a bird own a nations wealth?

      HEY, if NO person inherited money or power, the world would probably be better off. I actually agree with you there. Why should one have to scrimp and save, and indignify themselves to live a meager life, while others are GIVEN a lavish lifestyle? BUT, as alexa says, it is the way things are.

      Still, the British Royal family, as I demonstrated, doesn't own that much. The current president probably has more. The jewels, etc... are considered a national treasure, and I doubt the queen could sell them. The SAME goes for the palace. YEAH, the guards may be paid out of the public, but probably not THAT much.

      Steve
      Hi, yes I'm aware of that and I'm not fundamentally saying that just because her face is on the money that means she creates and controls it, I was just pointing out that it's a little coincidental when she's also the head of the other financial departments I mentioned.

      I've got no real problem with genuine inheritance if I'm honest, it's not your fault if you're born into a rich family, the problem for me arises with how that wealth was ultimately acquired and whether it is then used to maintain power over others without their say so.

      The private guards, the police - who ultimately serve the queen by swearing an oath of allegiance to her upon joining (just look at the badge on their uniforms - 'ER' - 'Elizabeth Regina') the bentleys, jags & range rovers that escort them around with a heavy private police escort of course, the royal navy, the royal air force - all paid for by the people without being given a real choice, whether you 'pro' it or not, the list goes on... anyway it's seems I'm derailing the original topic of this thread somewhat now
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by JoeUK View Post

        The private guards, the police - who ultimately serve the queen by swearing an oath of allegiance to her upon joining (just look at the badge on their uniforms - 'ER' - 'Elizabeth Regina') the bentleys, jags & range rovers that escort them around with a heavy private police escort of course, the royal navy, the royal air force - all paid for by the people without being given a real choice
        Again, you just have many of your facts wrong, here.

        Most of those cars, and quite a lot of the policing costs, are paid for - voluntarily - by the Royal family out of their own taxed income. Not paid for by taxpayers like you and me.

        The fact it's called the "Royal" army/navy etc. is traditional, and signifies nothing, these days. Their Commander in Chief is the Prime Minister, not the monarch.

        Originally Posted by JoeUK View Post

        I'm not fundamentally saying that just because her face is on the money that means she creates and controls it
        Excuse me, but that is exactly what you were saying, until I pulled you up on it.

        It was you, not anyone else here, who referred to the "production" and "control" of money with regard, specifically, to the Royal family.

        Retract it, if you want; defend it, if you want; ignore it completely, if you want; but please don't deny it when it's there in black and white. You may fool yourself, that way, but you're fooling nobody else.
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        • Profile picture of the author JoeUK
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Again, you just have many of your facts wrong, here.

          Most of those cars, and quite a lot of the policing costs, are paid for - voluntarily - by the Royal family out of their own taxed income. Not paid for by taxpayers like you and me.

          The fact it's called the "Royal" army/navy etc. is traditional, and signifies nothing, these days. Their Commander in Chief is the Prime Minister, not the monarch.



          Excuse me, but that is exactly what you were saying, until I pulled you up on it.

          It was you, not anyone else here, who referred to the "production" and "control" of money with regard, specifically, to the Royal family.

          Retract it, if you want; defend it, if you want; ignore it completely, if you want; but please don't deny it when it's there in black and white. You may fool yourself, that way, but you're fooling nobody else.
          This is the thing though, our taxation system in not transparent, so we have no real way of knowing exactly how much of our dosh is being used and on what.

          If what you're saying is the case, then it's still 'wrong', they should pay for all the policing/transport/guarding costs themselves, the public should not have to 'contribute' under threat and coercion, even a fraction to supporting their lifestyle.

          Hmm, I'm inclined to think that significance is everything with these hierachical types (and yes I know my inclination doesn't necessarily make it so, I'm 'just saying') :p

          Yes, the PM acts as commander in chief on a 'practical' level but the monarch is and always has been the ultimate commander in chief which is why no military action is taken without a quick visit to the palace first - at least that's my understanding and I stand corrected if that's not the case.

          I didn't originally say 'she creates the money soley because her face is on it', I went on to ask if that, along with the other examples were merely inconsequential which you have said they are, so that is fine.

          And I did retract it in my reply to you, by saying I was maybe a little hasty and inaccurate in my original posting

          I'm honestly not trying to 'fool' anyone, I just see our monarchy as the perfect illustration of what is 'wrong' with the world today - maybe I should of just originally stuck with that
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          • Profile picture of the author MrMatts
            Great thread, what about buyers from Eu....

            I find it always discouraging to buy anything from Clickbank when I have to pay VAT aswell... if the price is lets say 47$ it usually ends up to be 47€ and if you translate 47€ to $ today it is 65$ ... so basically (with today exchange rate) a customer that buys a 47$ product in europe pays 18$ more for same product....

            And at same time if you are buying something from lets say ejunkie then its no VAT at all collected.... how can it be a difference between ejunkie and clickbank?
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            • Profile picture of the author mattmax
              Originally Posted by MrMatts View Post

              Great thread, what about buyers from Eu....

              I find it always discouraging to buy anything from Clickbank when I have to pay VAT aswell... if the price is lets say 47$ it usually ends up to be 47€ and if you translate 47€ to $ today it is 65$ ... so basically (with today exchange rate) a customer that buys a 47$ product in europe pays 18$ more for same product....

              And at same time if you are buying something from lets say ejunkie then its no VAT at all collected.... how can it be a difference between ejunkie and clickbank?
              With E-junkie the tax is determined by the seller, and most simply don't bother to set it up. ClickBank, OTOH, actually treats the vendors as wholesalers, so when you buy a ClickBank product, you are really purchasing it from a single retailer, ClickBank. ClickBank honors all applicable local sales taxes, so there is no way for a ClickBank vendor to NOT charge VAT for EU customers.

              The way ClickBank does it provides a lot of protection for vendors, because they will never find themselves in a situation where local governments are coming after them for back taxes, which is exactly what happens when business really starts to take off.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    I believe Carlos and Tommy are correct. The upshot is instead of pricing your product to take VAT into account, you can now lower the price to generate more sales if you want.

    But Steve also has a point on why does Clickbank has to collect VAT for European or other governments. How is it going to be monitored?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      I believe Carlos and Tommy are correct. The upshot is instead of pricing your product to take VAT into account, you can now lower the price to generate more sales if you want.

      But Steve also has a point on why does Clickbank has to collect VAT for European or other governments. How is it going to be monitored?
      YEAH, Adding VAT is really silly because it will NOT only raise the EU price, but the US price.

      You CAN'T charge vat ANYWAY! Different countries charge a different VAT, and HOW do YOU pay it? CLICKBANK is different, since it is determined based on the country of the customer. I am not 100% sure how they validate that with EU, but they may use the IP address. For validating US sales, they could use Address Verification.

      As for montoring, the EU may spot check. It isn't hard to do. Fines often are HIGH to compensate for things that are missed.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        But Steve also has a point on why does Clickbank has to collect VAT for European or other governments. How is it going to be monitored?
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        YEAH, Adding VAT is really silly because it will NOT only raise the EU price, but the US price.

        You CAN'T charge vat ANYWAY! Different countries charge a different VAT, and HOW do YOU pay it? CLICKBANK is different, since it is determined based on the country of the customer. I am not 100% sure how they validate that with EU, but they may use the IP address. For validating US sales, they could use Address Verification.

        As for montoring, the EU may spot check. It isn't hard to do. Fines often are HIGH to compensate for things that are missed.
        It happens because of something called "Directive 2002/38/EC" which was introduced to redress what was seen as a competitive disadvantage imposed on European companies who have to comply with VAT rules when selling to European customers (end users, I mean; not business-to-business) whereas their foreign-based competitors do not.

        And, without going into specifics (because you'll all instantly die of boredom just from reading them), I believe it basically works like this:

        1. Non-EU based companies that sell to end users in Europe identify themselves for tax purposes in any EU member state of their choosing.

        2. Every 3 months, they pay the tax they have collected to the administration where they have registered, together with a return in electronic form detailing total sales for each EU member state.

        3. On the basis of this information, the member state of registration re-allocates tax revenue to the country of the consumer.

        As far as I know, compliance is still technically voluntary - for now. I suspect, however, any non-EU company selling to end-users in Europe will, at some point, be told they'll be shut out of the market if they don't comply (and access to 721 million consumers in the wealthiest region of the planet can be a hard thing to throw away, especially when, as demonstarted by Clickbank, complianace can probably be mostly automated anyway) .

        Tommy.

        P.S. - I'd imagine the directive in question actually affects only a very small number of companies (mostly small-medium sized ones), as most large non-European corporations selling to EU consumers actually have a physical presence of some sort in at least one EU member state anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Thomas,

    I earlier said effectively the same thing without being as long as you. I DID say a few years, but I guess it WAS likely more than 5. I gave up on a lot of such specifics some time back.

    The fact is that several large vendor model processors now do the VAT stuff THEMSELVES. Since they ARE vendor model, there is *****NO***** way anyone else could provide for vat processing ANYWAY! I guess they ONLY way that could be done is to determine the highest possible vat tax, and pay a portion equal to the applicable country, but SOMEONE is likely to cry foul, since it will look like you are doing what you are doing! EXAMPLE?

    Country C is the highest VAT at 50%, so you charge $150
    Country A is charging 20%, so you pay $25! Sounds LEGIT, HUH? They figure your product costs $125!

    OK, you pay Country C $50 because that is what you figured on paying them, since you wanted $100. $50 is 50% of 100, so it sounds right, RIGHT?

    WRONG! Think like a politician! $150-$25=$125, so your base price is $125, and Country C wants $187.50! BELIEVE me, that IS the way they think! After all, since you don't know what will be charged, and have no control ANYWAY, you can't change the price.

    PAYPAL and authorize.net CAN'T, and DON'T charge the VAT, but THEY give you the ability to validate the customers and change the prices.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author taskemann
    Ok. Thanks everyone for clearing this up!

    I have done some research on the Internet about this. I understand now that one does not need to pay VAT to the government for sales of goods or services to other countries.


    Jimmy
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    Around about the 25%
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  • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
    Personally I pay only about 11 to 12 percent in income taxes. However, after social security and medicare, it's about the standard 25%. I think a lot of people that have never had to pay their own taxes don't realize that and just look at the total coming out. Anyway, not saying I support him, but Cain's 999 would save me 2 to 3 percent less in income taxes.
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Originally Posted by taskemann View Post

    Hi! I'm just wondering... How much TAX do you pay on your online income?
    The exact amount I am legally obliged to pay. Not a cent more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicola Lane
    I love that JoeUK isn't JoeGB - he hates that we are a Kingdom so much, he puts it in his username! Even better there is a perfectly good alternative!

    Priceless
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