The Poor Have Gotten Richer In The Last 10 Years In The USA!

12 years ago

Yeah and all those hungry and homeless people out there need to recognize those facts.

I'm betting that those are very OLD statistics and that they were compiled by someone in the the half million or more a year bracket. And it's also true that pay is higher than it used to be - but lets add the stats of how much that larger pay buys and you find people are much harder off than ever before. Stacked stats. Min wage is up to 7.5 or more in some places -- so add that up and the poor are making more than ever before. Go try and live on it. Just try it. LOL.

If you look around you for awhile, you will not see evidence of it. The "poor" were able to purchase homes - they are gone now. 47 mil and climbing are now on food stamps - millions on millions without a job so long they don't even show up on unemployment statistics any more. And how many are suffering or dying at home because they can't afford medical treatment?

We can print flyers to the bottom third of our our citizens though so they will know when they are trying to eat the flyer to fill their stomach or using it for warmth that they are more well off than ever before. I'm sure it will lift their spirits.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

Link? Or quote?

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Facts are facts.

TL

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HarryS

12 years ago

Not sure if it is the same link as the OP, but here is a similar article.

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HarryS

Not sure if it is the same link as the OP, but here is a similar article.

WOW, that doesn't agree with the OP:

"But it turns out that the rich actually got poorer under former, and the income gap has been climbing under current".

Steve
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Sean3000

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Facts are facts.

Care to share some of these facts with us?

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KimW

12 years ago

Facts are facts and lies are lies.

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Johnny GotPaid 12 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Facts are facts and lies are lies.

...and some lies are about facts
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Justin Says

12 years ago

There are no facts... it's all a big lie

Facts are lies and lies are facts.

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clint48

12 years ago

If you really think what the OP posted is true you need to watch this, it's kind of long, but very interesting.

Clint

The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class - YouTube

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The 13th Warrior

12 years ago

The Koch Brothers, other billionaires and their many "non-profit" institutes pump out these "facts" daily thru their institutions and those "they sponsor".

The more insane and ridiculous a person states and defend these "facts", the more they are positioning themselves in the front of the line so "The Koch" brothers or some other billionaire will throw money at them to spread how "fat" and well off the masses are, how the masses need to do more to give their fair share.

How much did Exxon pay in income taxes off their billions in profit? How much "tax sponsored" WELFARE do them and other companies get, because they are doing "us" a biiiigggg favor?

Maybe TL is trying to get his blog or get a new radio show "sponsored" by them, they can throw money his way.

The bones bare minimum of anyone in "their" favor who spews these "facts" usually get at least $75, 000 a year plus a radio show, sponsored internet or blog with any extra thousands/millions of dollars reading commercials.

Go for it T L.

The 13th Warrior

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

I disagree. It's silly not to think so.

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The rich aren't the reason for the poor. It is silly to think so.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

I didn't say that. My statement has as much validity as yours.

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

So you're entitled to their money.

Yeah, that makes sense.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

Yes it does. It's called having a progressive tax code which is what we had for many decades and worked pretty well. Since around 1981 it hasn't been that progressive. Now, many argue that we should not raise taxes on the rich at all, however these same people have no problem with raising them on the middle class and poor. Like Warren Buffett said: "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

No, it doesn't. Wealth doesn't create poverty. The rich are not responsible for poverty. The rich don't owe the poor a thing.

The fact that the divide between the rich and the poor is widening does not mean that the rich should become poorer to narrow the gap. That seems to be the solution a lot of people want.

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garyv

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yes it does. It's called having a progressive tax code which is what we had for many decades and worked pretty well. Since around 1981 it hasn't been that progressive. Now, many argue that we should not raise taxes on the rich at all, however these same people have no problem with raising them on the middle class and poor. Like Warren Buffett said: "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

Whatever happened to working harder and earning more to lessen that gap? This is why a flat tax would be awesome. Everyone's percentage would remain the same, but if you make more, you'll pay more.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

There's plenty of people who are willing to work hard but in case you haven't noticed, there are not many jobs available. I bet you like Cain's 9-9-9 plan which will raise the taxes on about 80% of Americans, but thank God it also will lower the taxes on the richest. Great plan. After all, the rich are the job creators and if we treat them really nicely everything will just be fine. The old trickle on down theory. George Bush was right when he called it "voodoo economics". Bush Sr I mean.

What I don't get is these politicians who sign a pledge to not raise taxes but it seems to only be for taxes on the rich because they want to "fix" the tax code by "expanding the base" which simply means raising taxes on those making the least amount. How is that not raising taxes?

Originally Posted by garyv

Whatever happened to working harder and earning more to lessen that gap? This is why a flat tax would be awesome. Everyone's percentage would remain the same, but if you make more, you'll pay more.

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Kay King 12 years ago

Surprise - you just made another thread political. Just can't resist, can you? All you've proven is that the goal of leaders to promote the "us vs them" mentality is working - people are buying into it.

The percentage tax of the rich doesn't matter because of loopholes that allow people and corps to pay no taxes now. Take away the loopholes and tax dodges that are available to the rich entities - you increase revenue without raising percentages. It's not rocket science.

I believe one of the biggest problems is 50% of citizens have no stake in the tax system. They don't care about where the money comes from - because it doesn't come from them. No one should be exempt from taxes on income. Even if the tax is only a few dollars every year it gives people a feeling of ownership instead of entitlement.
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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

There's plenty of people who are willing to work hard but in case you haven't noticed, there are not many jobs available. I bet you like Cain's 9-9-9 plan which will raise the taxes on about 80% of Americans, but thank God it also will lower the taxes on the richest. Great plan. After all, the rich are the job creators and if we treat them really nicely everything will just be fine. The old trickle on down theory. George Bush was right when he called it "voodoo economics". Bush Sr I mean.

What I don't get is these politicians who sign a pledge to not raise taxes but it seems to only be for taxes on the rich because they want to "fix" the tax code by "expanding the base" which simply means raising taxes on those making the least amount. How is that not raising taxes?

I have to tell you, a lot of YOUR friends did that! Don't get me wrong, I HATED one of my choices tax plans ALSO! ***MY*** taxes went UP! It was the FIRST time I didn't do them MYSELF, MANUALLY! They were to constantly CHANGE! Did it EVER stop? A LOT of things that raised MY taxes would have hurt the POOR also! And he "raised the supreme courts salary". Apparently, that isn't possible. It is INDEXED! NOPE, NOT POSSIBLE! UNLESS...UNLESS... He raises the salary of people like the PRESIDENT! So he raised his pension, or whatever you call it, AS WEL!!!!! Gee, I wonder what the motivation was. But things are changing NOW also!

Steve

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yes it does. It's called having a progressive tax code which is what we had for many decades and worked pretty well. Since around 1981 it hasn't been that progressive. Now, many argue that we should not raise taxes on the rich at all, however these same people have no problem with raising them on the middle class and poor. Like Warren Buffett said: “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

THINK about it a minute! If a combatant is winning because of a secret, do they reveal it? ****NO**** If a combatant is winning and is generally free, does he claim HE is doing it? ****NO****

I'll tell you a little fact. Taxes have made him RICHER, not poorer. And that income came from OTHERS that weren't as rich. AND, if you raise taxes on where his REAL net worth comes from it will hurt OTHERS, including unions, your parents, and probably YOU! BESIDES, that does NOT make the poor richer! It adds to inflation making them POORER even if they make MORE!

In short YOU ARE BEING PLAYED!

steve

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TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

THINK about it a minute! If a combatant is winning because of a secret, do they reveal it? ****NO**** If a combatant is winning and is generally free, does he claim HE is doing it? ****NO****

I'll tell you a little fact. Taxes have made him RICHER, not poorer. And that income came from OTHERS that weren't as rich. AND, if you raise taxes on where his REAL net worth comes from it will hurt OTHERS, including unions, your parents, and probably YOU! BESIDES, that does NOT make the poor richer! It adds to inflation making them POORER even if they make MORE!

In short YOU ARE BEING PLAYED!

steve

That was funny!!

TL

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

That was funny!!

TL

MAYBE, but it is SAD too.
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Kurt

12 years ago

Someone's instigatin' again...

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MikeAmbrosio 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Someone's instigatin' again...

TL would NEVER instigate
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seasoned

12 years ago

I'm surprised anyone would say this over ten years. With all the "stimulus", the past few years data is corrupted. Heck, some UNEMPLOYED are making more than they did before, when they were employed. Still, inflation hurts that. In 1989 a person in denmark making minimum wage made TWICE what an american did, in terms of dollars! TWICE! The buying power, outside of vat, etc... was roughly the SAME. That was because of taxes. Of course VAT reduces that even MORE. BTW MOST people say you should save 10-20% MINIMUM. I figure I am saving a bit less than 12%. 10 years ago, it was maybe 2%. But the change is simply because I am making more in another job, not because of any political stuff.

BTW Elizabeth didn't say WHY this is like it is really, but she was right.

Steve

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

LOL. Gotcha.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Facts are facts.

TL

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garyv

12 years ago

What is Poverty in the United States: Air Conditioning, Cable TV and an Xbox

As scholar James Q. Wilson has stated, “The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago.”[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker."

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

Yeah, you are right. Things aren't that bad. So we should just keep things as they are. No matter that the gap between the rich and poor is the widest since the 1930s. We just need to close our eyes and tap our heels together three times and everything will be fine.

Originally Posted by garyv

What is Poverty in the United States: Air Conditioning, Cable TV and an Xbox

As scholar James Q. Wilson has stated, "The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago."[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker."

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

What is Poverty in the United States: Air Conditioning, Cable TV and an Xbox

As scholar James Q. Wilson has stated, “The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago.”[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker."

You're right there! THINK ABOUT IT! 100 years ago, 1900, roughly, you could still have a small home, no utilities, and live on practically NOTHING. Electricity as a viable industry only STARTED in 1896! Apparently GAS hit the same point around 1802. I don't know about the US, but apparently doing it with paris france was only being considered in 1820!
And water and those things? Well, that apparently was later also.

TV probably wasn't really viable until like 1950. The CD wasn't economical until maybe like 1985 or so. So YEAH, obviously a LOT has happened in 100 years.

BUT, haven't you heard? You can't LIVE without the internet! People talk like if all kids had the internet, they would be GENIUSES and get GREAT jobs! HOGWASH! I've known a LOT of people from all backgrounds. Some DO have a thirst for knowledge and the internet could help out, but THEY are often not the ones in slums, etc...

Tim,

YOU KNOW garyv isn't saying that! I'm not either! They NEED to have basic utilities! They NEED to be able to buy food! Washers and dryers are a GIVEN. BUT!

Two color televisions? OK, B/W is not really an option now, but TWO?!?!?!? I didn't have two until ten years ago, and that was because I wanted ONE, and there was a nice sale going on. My other one was being shipped here as I moved to a different state. WHY two? When I was a kid, my mother would watch the news at night, which I HATED, so I went to my room. NO TV, NO computer!

Cable? When I was a kid, Cable was a CHOICE and EXPENSIVE! I didn't have that until I was like 18! OK, sometimes it is all but required, but I GUARANTEE you they don't have the BASIC service! BASIC service is often better than what I had as a kid! Let's see, I was in the LA area. I basically got channels 2,4,5,7,9,11,13 so I got SEVEN channels! OK, SOMETIME when the Planets were aligned just so, I would get like channels 28 and 52, so MAYBE 9 channels! They USUALLY weren't clear though!

Satellite TV? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!?!?

DVD player? SERIOUSLY, AYKM?

VCR? COME ON, SERIOUSLY?

The family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation? !?!?!?

BTW comparison? I NEVER had satellite TV! I only bought a DVD player a few months ago, because I didn't want to tie up my computer. I DREAMED of getting a VCR in 1981, the one I looked at cost over $1000, as I recall, and didn't until maybe 1985(less than $200). I DID get a little FIXED 17 game system when I was like 13, but it was on sale and CHEAP!(less than $20, as I recall) I STILL haven't gotten any other.

Do you realize that just switching to BASIC service that in a year they could EASILY have enough to buy a nice netbook with CASH? For the price of many DVD players they could! For the price of a VCR they could! xbox or playstation? Throw in a few games, and they could. And for the internet? Last I knew it could be as low as $10/month. FORGET the high bandwidth variants! WHAT do they need that for? youtube? games?

BTW just so we understand one another. Most washers and dryers I have used were communal. I didn't get my OWN, until 11/2001! HECK, the hotel I am staying at doesn't have ANY washers or dryers for the residents! I have to drive to a laundromat several blocks away! OH, And I bought the second cheapest model sears had! The cheapest LOOKED cheap and like it might fall apart. I paid about $800 for both TOGETHER. The cheapest was about $600.

Steve

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The 13th Warrior

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

What is Poverty in the United States: Air Conditioning, Cable TV and an Xbox

As scholar James Q. Wilson has stated, "The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago."[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker."

Love these robotic, automaton measurements placed on live human beings, basically human-LESS sentiments and rationalization.

Following this logic, the guy sleeping under a freeway bridge had a better life than the neanderthals living in frozen caves and wastelands, so HE should have a healthier, reassessed perspective and gratitude of his condition in light of these "academic" facts.

Lets continue this line of "logic", ( logic of the soul-less )...,

Some people here in the U.S. eat out of the garbage......, some percentage of garbage is food that has partially been used, and partially less likely to be fully contamenated..., compared to "other" poor countries who bake dried mud to eat and consume crawling field roaches, our "garbage" eaters are not doing too bad , if computing with "pure" statistics and comparative analysis.

J-e-s-u-s F-r-i-g-g-i-n Christ, man, you gots to be kiddin me, dudes.

Just show you most people, despite our empathy, are simply NOT human beings, ready to take the place and plan in hand of the oppressors if given even the slightest chance.

Good going Goober.

"Heritage.org", another billionaire nazi, non-profit with hired "sell-out" academics, scientist and scholars paid to say anything of their masters will, or close to it.

A phD , certificate, state certified, Board Licensed, Federally approved or organizational accolades does not make these type chaps any less prostitutes,whores, any less of a liar and any less evil.

The 13th Warrior

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garyv

12 years ago

Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior

Following this logic, the guy sleeping under a freeway bridge had a better life than the neanderthals living in frozen caves and wastelands, so HE should have a healthier, reassessed perspective and gratitude of his condition in light of these "academic" facts.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. If I were to make a description of a person using the terms used in the article I posted above. No one would guess that I'm talking about what we in the United States call "a poor person".

If you think the poor in the United States are poorer than they ever have been, then you obviously have no elders in your family to educate you on the Great Depression / Dustbowl / etc.

And I'm not making lite of those actually suffering. But most of those that are considered "poor" are not really suffering, they are just spoiled to better times.

There really are people out here suffering (I work at the local food pantry so I know they're out here). But there are even more people taking advantage of our current system. Because if they really needed to take money for food stamps from me, they'd have sold those game systems and extra TV a long time ago.

I'd never think about taking a dime from anyone to feed my family, until I've exhausted all of my own current resources - which includes selling my possessions. Too many spoiled people in our country.

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TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

That makes absolutely no sense at all. If I were to make a description of a person using the terms used in the article I posted above. No one would guess that I'm talking about what we in the United States call "a poor person".

If you think the poor in the United States are poorer than they ever have been, then you obviously have no elders in your family to educate you on the Great Depression / Dustbowl / etc.

And I'm not making lite of those actually suffering. But most of those that are considered "poor" are not really suffering, they are just spoiled to better times.

There really are people out here suffering (I work at the local food pantry so I know they're out here). But there are even more people taking advantage of our current system. Because if they really needed to take money for food stamps from me, they'd have sold those game systems and extra TV a long time ago.

I'd never think about taking a dime from anyone to feed my family, until I've exhausted all of my own current resources - which includes selling my possessions. Too many spoiled people in our country.

Many good points Gary.

I wonder if you feel the unemployed are spoiled also.

And if you believe it's their fault they can't find a job.

All The Best!!

TL

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Many good points Gary.

I wonder if you feel the unemployed are spoiled also.

And if you believe it's their fault they can't find a job.

All The Best!!

TL

In SOME cases it actually IS their fault. But YOU blame the RICH, RIGHT? What are THEY to do? PAY a person for doing NOTHING?

Steve

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

That makes absolutely no sense at all. If I were to make a description of a person using the terms used in the article I posted above. No one would guess that I'm talking about what we in the United States call "a poor person".

If you think the poor in the United States are poorer than they ever have been, then you obviously have no elders in your family to educate you on the Great Depression / Dustbowl / etc.

And I'm not making lite of those actually suffering. But most of those that are considered "poor" are not really suffering, they are just spoiled to better times.

There really are people out here suffering (I work at the local food pantry so I know they're out here). But there are even more people taking advantage of our current system. Because if they really needed to take money for food stamps from me, they'd have sold those game systems and extra TV a long time ago.

I'd never think about taking a dime from anyone to feed my family, until I've exhausted all of my own current resources - which includes selling my possessions. Too many spoiled people in our country.

Maybe instead of spending 10x what any other country on the planet spends on their military, we could only spend 9x as much and food stamps/welfare would be paid for.

US Budget Breakdown for FY12 - Charts

There really are people out here suffering (I work at the local food pantry so I know they're out here). But there are even more people taking advantage of our current system.

Yeah I agree...and many are called called bankers, brokers, investors, big oil exectutives and investors, speculators, lobbyists, war profiteers and more....

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TLTheLiberator

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Maybe instead of spending 10x what any other country on the planet spends on their military, we could only spend 9x as much and food stamps/welfare would be paid for.

US Budget Breakdown for FY12 - Charts

Yeah I agree...and many are called called bankers, brokers, investors, big oil exectutives and investors, speculators, lobbyists, war profiteers and more....

Good points Kurt.

These folks you listed have hurt our society much more than the people ripping off the food stamp program - by many times.

I hope Gary has the same zeal to stop those freeloaders you mentioned as has has the food stamp etc. freeloaders.

But somehow I doubt it since those folks are the "job creators".

TL

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Good points Kurt.

These folks you listed have hurt our society much more than the people ripping off the food stamp program - by many times.

I hope Gary has the same zeal to stop those freeloaders you mentioned as has has the food stamp etc. freeloaders.

But somehow I doubt it since those folks are the "job creators".

TL

Personally, I'd rather feed 9 "imposters" in order to feed one legit hungry person than let that one hungry person go hungry.

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Personally, I'd rather feed 9 "imposters" in order to feed one legit hungry person than let that one hungry person go hungry.

NOBODY is stopping you!
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- Kurt 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by seasoned
  
  NOBODY is stopping you!
  
  And I will, with or without your permission, as well as support politicians that feel the same.
  
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HeySal

12 years ago

As someone who got totally wiped out and has had to start over on my own now, I know the misconceptions that people have about the poor.

First off - computers have become a necessity these days. That's a need that society has placed on us. It's not the choice of the masses Imagine walking in somewhere to get a job with no computer experience whatsoever and being told they only take applications online. Has anyone tried to get a job without a phone? Some require that you have your own transportation. Ever had an emergency without a car?

I hear people talk and begrudge anyone poor from having anything - even when not having them means you can't GET employment.

Thus said - those who are using public funding to buy luxuries need to be given a reality check. I don't have a TV. I don't have one by choice, and my life is probably richer than anyone's who sits in front of their TV for recreation - and I'm healthier because I do the same thing now as when I was a kid and mom would push me out the door and say "play outside". But fear and regulation doesn't allow for kids to go outside and play anymore. So they have to let us have things to entertain ourselves and keep us under control and surveillance. Of course, there is a major cost to that. If you look around you, you will see that almost everything is structured to keep money in their coifers and out of our pockets while achieving maximum control. Even economics education now is more consumer conditioning than learning the basics of smart economic practice.

And society doesn't help at all -- people are often ostracized if they don't "have" enough to make themselves acceptable to others. If you show one sign of need, you are spit on, called names, thought to be lazy and worthless. The training has worked very well. We are forming a society of rich with peasantry slavery. There soon will be little in between the two. Those working hard for an honest living are treated like trash by corporations, who go so far as to work people until their health fails, then fire them when it does. If the living you make doesn't furnish you with enough baubbles to be socially accepted - you are still trash and lazy.

I made $125.00 a week in 1974 and I had enough for everything and a kick butt wardrobe and nice car, nice place to live, etc. Now you can't get what I had then on less than $2,500 a month. Welfare pays what $450 - 600 a month? Not even enough to afford the necessities you need to get a job in most companies. But the people who fell into that catch 22 system are now hated.

And the worst of our programming? The hate that is directed at anyone who is not making enough and the misconception about how easy it is to get back on your feet once you get knocked off them. There is little that takes no money to achieve now. Once people get knocked down the system blocks them at every chance so they can't just be willing to stand up again - they have to pay money they don't have to do it. Yet the propaganda keeps circulating about how well off they all are.

Ah well enjoy the status of royalty if you have everything you need right now because it won't be too long before the next level of humans take the fall and get to listen to how great they have it while wondering if they will have a roof over their heads from month to month.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

As someone who got totally wiped out and has had to start over on my own now, I know the misconceptions that people have about the poor.

First off - computers have become a necessity these days. That's a need that society has placed on us. It's not the choice of the masses Imagine walking in somewhere to get a job with no computer experience whatsoever and being told they only take applications online. Has anyone tried to get a job without a phone? Some require that you have your own transportation. Ever had an emergency without a car?

I hear people talk and begrudge anyone poor from having anything - even when not having them means you can't GET employment.

Just so everyone notes, in my last post I DID mention how cutting back on some UNNEEDED things could get you a computer that ALSO allows you to KEEP the benefits, or value, that you gave up with the other stuff.

I have ALSO mentioned in other posts about a woman that I knew that didn't do anything to get transportation. Her daughter had to rely on others to have her see friends, etc...

And I WAS in project HOPE(to clean up and train the poor to get them jobs), and donated to a mans charity(I forget the name, but they were popular), that allowed homeless bums to get cleaned up, have a place to stay, and get jobs. I guess they figured that women and children already had enough places, since so many charities cater to them, Project hope was for everyone though. I just think the idea that they can have various games, premium service, etc... and STILL say "help me I'm very poor" is a bit much. MANY middle class people have gone bankrupt, rationed, scrimped and saved to get THEMSELVES out of situations.

Thus said - those who are using public funding to buy luxuries need to be given a reality check. I don't have a TV. I don't have one by choice, and my life is probably richer than anyone's who sits in front of their TV for recreation - and I'm healthier because I do the same thing now as when I was a kid and mom would push me out the door and say "play outside". But fear and regulation doesn't allow for kids to go outside and play anymore. So they have to let us have things to entertain ourselves and keep us under control and surveillance. Of course, there is a major cost to that. If you look around you, you will see that almost everything is structured to keep money in their coifers and out of our pockets while achieving maximum control. Even economics education now is more consumer conditioning than learning the basics of smart economic practice.

And society doesn't help at all -- people are often ostracized if they don't "have" enough to make themselves acceptable to others. If you show one sign of need, you are spit on, called names, thought to be lazy and worthless. The training has worked very well. We are forming a society of rich with peasantry slavery. There soon will be little in between the two. Those working hard for an honest living are treated like trash by corporations, who go so far as to work people until their health fails, then fire them when it does. If the living you make doesn't furnish you with enough baubbles to be socially accepted - you are still trash and lazy.

I made $125.00 a week in 1974 and I had enough for everything and a kick butt wardrobe and nice car, nice place to live, etc. Now you can't get what I had then on less than $2,500 a month. Welfare pays what $450 - 600 a month? Not even enough to afford the necessities you need to get a job in most companies. But the people who fell into that catch 22 system are now hated.

And that's the worst of our programming - the hate that is directed at anyone who is not making enough and the misconception about how easy it is to get back on your feet once you get knocked off them. There is little that takes no money to achieve now. Once people get knocked down the system blocks them at every chance so they can't just be willing to stand up again - they have to pay money they don't have to do it. Yet the propaganda keeps circulating about how well off they all are.

Ah well enjoy the status of royalty if you have everything you need right now because it won't be too long before the next level of humans take the fall and get to listen to how great they have it while wondering if they will have a roof over their heads from month to month.

Well, the ones I am upset with very much seem to be there by CHOICE. But you are right about how ANYONE could up being REAL bad off. I KNOW you don't want to hear it, BUT.... full episodes, 2 Broke Girls video, 2 Broke Girls, 2 Broke Girls behind the scenes, cbs video, episode video, interviews

One of the characters is a person that is the daughter of someone like madoff. Once an heiress to a fortune, and admired, she is now hated and BROKE! She ends up relying on the OTHER character to get her started back on her feet even though she may NEVER be rich again.

HEY, such things happen. I have known a number of people like that. I EVEN know a few people that are the sons/daughters of millionares and billionares that were DISOWNED! One of them has a name that is so well known everyone on this board may know it. Their company trades on the NYSE. I'm kind of surprised that it is worth only about 5B, but the employees number in the 5 digit range. Anyway, he is disowned. 8-( He is BROKE, and scrimping.

And yeah, it is far easier to get a job when you have one, and easier to get money when you have it.

As for the welfare? That is ANOTHER viscous cycle! In the 70s, people had more real money to give. Today, REALLY, the average person has NOTHING! OH, I make a good salary. I have money in the bank, credit, investment accounts, etc... OH, it sounds like I have LOTS of money! BUT, for HOW LONG? I have been asked to attempt something that I told someone I might not be able to do, and my boss said I meant that I could! So what will happen? WHO KNOWS? Such is my life. Kind of silly to endanger THREE contracts but, OH WELL! I can truthfully say *I* didn't do it, and tried to talk them out of it.

And where is the economy going? Where are my investments going, etc? WHO KNOWS? Some poor people may say "Why does he need that money"? Well, I have to be able to ride things out if the economy goes down, inflation goes up, I get unemployed, etc.... ALSO, I need to get like 6 TIMES what I have to retire. In the 70s, things weren't quite so bad.

TODAY, people have less to give, feel less secure, inflation is higher, taxes are higher, and the money, as you said, may be higher but it has less value!

Steve

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

And I WAS in project HOPE(to clean up and train the poor to get them jobs), and donated to a mans charity(I forget the name, but they were popular), that allowed homeless bums to get cleaned up, have a place to stay, and get jobs.

Any particular reason you chose to use the word "bums" instead of "people" or "men" or just "homeless"?

You know, the words you choose to use to describe others often describe you more than them...

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Any particular reason you chose to use the word "bums" instead of "people" or "men" or just "homeless"?

You know, the words you choose to use to describe others often describe you more than them...

WOW, what a way to end it. I wanted to get the idea across that they could be filthy dressed in rags, etc...

Steve

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Any particular reason you chose to use the word "bums" instead of "people" or "men" or just "homeless"?

You know, the words you choose to use to describe others often describe you more than them...

Excellent example of the point I was making.

Steve -- is there any subject on this earth that you don't relate to a TV show?

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Steve -- is there any subject on this earth that you don't relate to a TV show?

What can I say, there are a LOT of TV shows, and little things like that pop up. Like I said, I HAVE met similar people in real life. OK, maybe not billionare ponzi guys, but OTHERS. I DID end up falling for a ponzi scheme that WAS big enough that the FBI got involved. But I never got chumby with any of those guys. The FBI made it sound like nobody would really be charged in a meaningful way. I got a check for maybe 5%. 8-(

HEY, I only heard about that show a few months ago. If I talked about this a few months ago, I wouldn't have mentioned a show.

Steve
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M_Jones

12 years ago

For smart people or people who wish to be smart:

Its not the value, its the ratio:

Just because Poor People can make $100 now, doesn't mean it's worth $100 like it was 5 years ago. You don't get as much bang for the buck anymore due to inflation.

The private company named Federal Reserve has inflation high because now, it is easier to pay back those debts. If you owe'd $1000 5 or 8 yrs ago, it'd be a big deal, but now days a $1000 is not so much, due to inflation. So if you get a bill for that same $1000 from 5 or 8 yrs ago, and you pay it, it then you're taking advantage of the inflation. This is what our US gov is doing, at the expense of the tax payer.

We are already beyond the point of no return though, so hold on tight - Whats that sound? Oh its just the euro crashing - nothing to see here folks! Stay asleep!

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by M_Jones

For smart people or people who wish to be smart:

Its not the value, its the ratio:

Just because Poor People can make $100 now, doesn't mean it's worth $100 like it was 5 years ago. You don't get as much bang for the buck anymore due to inflation.

The private company named Federal Reserve has inflation high because now, it is easier to pay back those debts. If you owe'd $1000 5 or 8 yrs ago, it'd be a big deal, but now days a $1000 is not so much, due to inflation. So if you get a bill for that same $1000 from 5 or 8 yrs ago, and you pay it, it then you're taking advantage of the inflation. This is what our US gov is doing, at the expense of the tax payer.

We are already beyond the point of no return though, so hold on tight - Whats that sound? Oh its just the euro crashing - nothing to see here folks! Stay asleep!

People use that "OH, it is ONLY to make it easier to pay" argument WAY too much. Yeah, the money is worth less, and infation cam BEFORE the problems with paying. Besides, ask ANYBODY on the planet that has more than a couple neurons what determines the value of something.

It is *****NOT**** COST! It is REPLACEMENT COST! Go to a gas station. They just bought fuel for $.50/gal. The supplier told them that the NEXT delivery will cost $1/gal. Do you think they will care that it only cost them $.5/gal? NOPE! They will start changing the prices! If they sell all 100 gallons for $1 you figure they made 100%, right? $1 is 100% more than $.50. Well, if they sell it for $.50, they will have to pay 100% of their GROSS revenue to buy HALF as much gas! They just LOST 50%, and that is BEFORE other expenses!

So raising inflation is NOT a way to pay off debt! If you devalue money 50% to pay for that new road, you have just DOUBLED the cost for future repairs and building. Doesn't sound so good NOW, DOES it?

Some may argue that the doubling isn't real because you still give the same actual value. Even THAT doesn't take into account the spiraling cost, new laws/rules, raising margins, dealing with new physical bills, and updating forms and software. YEP, I have ACTUALLY been in companies that had to upgrade the size of numbers handled by systems in accounting. Besides, if you do it more than other countries, they will see you as less stable, and the inflation will start to be controlled by OTHERS to your detriment.

Heck, look at heysals post, that video, history, etc.. for PROOF that what I am saying is true. Is the average income like over $100,000? Do people get like $10,000 for social security? are tax laws the same as they were 50 years ago? ****NOPE****! So inflation as a way to pay off debt isn't feasible in the long run. Besides, it is like CHEATING or going bankrupt. And what is to stop another country from saying HERE'S a thought! Pay us in OUR currency! Even an american will want to invest at a rate that is BETTER than inflation! You hear that term ALL THE TIME!

Steve

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M_Jones

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

So inflation as a way to pay off debt isn't feasible in the long run. Besides, it is like CHEATING or going bankrupt. And what is to stop another country from saying HERE'S a thought! Pay us in OUR currency! Even an american will want to invest at a rate that is BETTER than inflation! You hear that term ALL THE TIME!

Steve

Yep. it is like cheating... because it is - this is why we must end the fed

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

There you go...picking on us poor 1% again...:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

For you purists...The Original - (with Marty Feldman)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eDaSvRO9xA

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

There you go...picking on us poor 1% again...:p

Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen - YouTube

For you purists...the original - (with Marty Feldman)
Original 4 Yorkshiremen Sketch - YouTube

Well, some rich people really DID have it bad! And at times I had to conserve food, go without food, etc... at times I had problems with space or had my savings wiped out by a problem. I was living paycheck to paycheck. As for other things, most here probably know I almost died several years ago. I had a 13 hour surgery, was in the hospital a week, and had to recuperate for 2 months. I wasn't even on the internet for at least 2 weeks. I only called 2 people in that 2 weeks. and THAT was to be a VACATION!

HECK, they surreptitiously cut off medication that they I needed after the operation, that they didn't tell me about until AFTER the operation. If I trusted them, I would probably be DEAD now! Luckily I managed to get a surplus to ride out such garbage.

So YEAH, I have been there! I even had people place lies on my credit report that hurt my credit. I've been scammed before.

I could tell you stories about bullying you wouldn't believe. And I don't think ANY made the news!

So yeah, it's a shame that monty python pushed this so far.

Steve

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seasoned

12 years ago

BTW. I only heard about 1/3 of it so far, but they both sound the SAME! They figured it was SO valuable that it was worth redoing? YIKES!

Steve

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

They are both the same exact sketch Steve, the old one just has Marty Feldman in the original "1948 show" sketch...the new one is from a concert of MPFC...

It was just taking the "when I was a boy" story and pushing it to the edge, as Python is always known to do...

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

They are both the same exact sketch Steve, the old one just has Marty Feldman in the original "1948 show" sketch...the new one is from a concert of MPFC...

It was just taking the "when I was a boy" story and pushing it to the edge, as Python is always known to do...

Well, I knew they were the same sketch. That is OBVIOUS. I'm just so surprised that they kept it SO similar, and even bothered to redo it. Oh well, I'm not crazy about remakes just to make another star, cater to another group, etc...

As for monty python, I saw maybe 5 things they have done. I'm not really into that.

Steve

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garyv

12 years ago

I don't know about you, but I've never received a job from a poor person. Tighten our belt, and only give to those who "really" need it, and then we don't have to worry about our military spending.

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I don't know about you, but I've never received a job from a poor person. Tighten our belt, and only give to those who "really" need it, and then we don't have to worry about our military spending.

Yep that's what they do in North Korea. They tighten their belt and don't worry about their military spending.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I don't know about you, but I've never received a job from a poor person. Tighten our belt, and only give to those who "really" need it, and then we don't have to worry about our military spending.

I don't know about you, but I've never filled a job with a rich person.

I'm guessing I've never had a rich person pick up my garbage or be on duty in an ambulance or drive my bus or taxi or ring up my groceries...You know...The stuff that really makes the World go round.

And you can't be serious about not worrying about military spending. Instead of simply spouting off, time to back up your point: Exactly what percentage of people on welfare are freeloaders? And does this count their kids? And where did you get your data? Without knowing this info, I don't see how anyone can form an educated opinion.

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garyv 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

And where did you get your data? Without knowing this info, I don't see how anyone can form an educated opinion.

ditto - ps - this is my opinion, not yours. I'm not responsible for your education.
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- Kurt 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by garyv
  
  ditto - ps - this is my opinion, not yours. I'm not responsible for your education.
  
  Spineless answer. I posted links to back up my info. I expect the same from you.
  
  You brought it up, now back it up. You're the one crying about freeloaders, tell me what you're crying about. Or do you just want a hanky?
  
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BrianMcLeod

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Tighten our belt, and only give to those who "really" need it, and then we don't have to worry about our military spending.

God forbid.

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I don't know about you, but I've never received a job from a poor person. Tighten our belt, and only give to those who "really" need it, and then we don't have to worry about our military spending.

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

God forbid.

I know...Isn't that the dumbest response you've ever heard?

Don't worry about the dollar being spent...Instead worry about the 2 cents and everything will take care of itself. :rolleyes:

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garyv

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I know...Isn't that the dumbest response you've ever heard?

Don't worry about the dollar being spent...Instead worry about the 2 cents and everything will take care of itself. :rolleyes:

That's a laugh... Health and Human services takes up more of our budget than the defense does. Good try though.

- Cutting back spending - you're right that's a dumb response... :rolleyes: No wonder our Country is in the shape it's in.

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seasoned

12 years ago

TP,

Then what ARE you saying?

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

It's silly to think the rich aren't a major reason for the widening gap between the rich and poor. It's the widest it's been since the 1920's. The tremendous influence of the banks, corporations and billionaires such as the Koch brothers on politicians is well documented and understood by most Americans.

Originally Posted by seasoned

TP,

Then what ARE you saying?

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garyv

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's silly to think the rich aren't a major reason for the widening gap between the rich and poor. It's the widest it's been since the 1920's. The tremendous influence of the banks, corporations and billionaires such as the Koch brothers on politicians is well documented and understood by most Americans.

If the way to get rich in this country is through hard work, intelligence, and innovation, and being lazy makes you poor, then it only makes sense that the gap between the rich and the poor will always be widening. That doesn't mean that it's any less possible for someone that's poor to work their way into riches. Especially with the Internet - it has never been easier for someone to climb into riches.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

You have a way of taking a subject and simplifying it into bumper sticker type statements to fit your preconceived idea of your fringe beliefs. Much in the same way you like to lump together millions of people because of their religion. Bravo to you.

Originally Posted by garyv

If the way to get rich in this country is through hard work, intelligence, and innovation, and being lazy makes you poor, ...

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Kay King 12 years ago

Tim - For someone who is in another thread talking about "pot stirrers" - you are out on a limb.

Every opinion is valid - and none are unassailable as all can go too far.

Simple truth is nothing gets done these days because people would rather defend their positions than listen to other viewpoints to see if a middle ground can be found. Without negotiation and compromise - nothing gets done.

It's one thing to express an opinion - another to get pissy because someone doesn't agree with you. Dragging in the old "religion" saw is going too far. Don't stoop to those levels, please.

kay
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- TimPhelan 12 years ago
  
  Kay, I couldn't agree with you more about that. I think the US as a whole is thinking the same and knows where the problem is coming from.
  
  By the way, please don't call me pissy missy.
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  Without negotiation and compromise - nothing gets done.
  
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garyv

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You have a way of taking a subject and simplifying it into bumper sticker type statements to fit your preconceived idea of your fringe beliefs. Much in the same way you like to lump together millions of people because of their religion. Bravo to you.

I must be in the fringe because I'm not part of the 99% right?

If Occupy Wallstreet is the 99% - Then yes I'm gladly in the fringe.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's silly to think the rich aren't a major reason for the widening gap between the rich and poor. It's the widest it's been since the 1920's. The tremendous influence of the banks, corporations and billionaires such as the Koch brothers on politicians is well documented and understood by most Americans.

Well, I don't know if anyone is REALLY even tracking the wealth of the rich. Yeah, I KNOW! FORBES and fortune ******CLAIM******* to be, but they AREN'T! Do you REALLY think BG has like 50B, or whatever it is? NO WAY! Read the fine print sometime, look at the situations, or just ask the editors! That is NOT savings! It includes real estate, bonds, and stocks. So YEAH, they appreciated. ALSO, the money the invested went to assets and even salaries. And YEAH, when they die, they often give it to heirs, that build on it.

The average cost of a share of stock is less than $.10. Anyway, you get a number of shares with the corporation. BG got more than PA. Originally, as the company made sales, etc... their net worth went up EVEN if they got NO money. o it cost them nothing, and they only got the promise that they could sell it at a higher price. In 2004, according to CNN, BG got a raise to $901,667! SO, though he makes and has a LOT of money, it is nowhere near what some imagine.

But yeah, I wasn't crazy with M/S doing things like selling an editor for like $400. OK, the "wholesale" price was closer to $200, and I guess OTHER people hated it ALSO! NOW, they have an improved version of that editor, with a spreadsheet, etc.. that RETAILS for close to $200. Did the employees get a paycut? I DOUBT it. And now they have even CHEAPER versions, so who knows WHAT the price averages out to.

But YEAH, the head guy wants a LOT. With Mcdonalds, they have what amounts to be general contractor for buildings, a test kitchen, some research that historically hasn't been great, lawyers, and general support. They are paid for by franchise fees, licensing fees, and a percentage of every franchisees purchases. As I understand it, at one point, the basic fees started at like $100K/year. It started with ONE guy and a manual! SERIOUSLY! Today that guy is WORLD famous and he was VERY rich! WOW, Wikipedia says he only had $500Million when he died. Still, they take a LOT from franchisees. And some charges that franchisees pay, as I understand it, are FIXED! They pay EVEN if they have no profit.

Ironically, stocks, and probably bonds, to a degree are REQUIRED to be public record. The salaries of officers is also. So CNN or whatever can get that. I DON'T think other salaries and other holdings or savings are public.

Steve

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manny2513

12 years ago

Interesting to see how a thread saying just "facts are facts" have started such and interesting conversation.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

"Success Unshared is Failure"
- John Paul DeJoria -

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

"Success Unshared is Failure"
- John Paul DeJoria -

Success pilfered by the government is TYRANNY!
- ME!
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