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NBA Lock Out - Who's fault is it?

by GGurls
10 replies
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Are the players being irrational and wanting too much or is it the owners being too greedy?
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Yes................
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  • Profile picture of the author rackemup
    IMO it's hard to pick sides. If the players, a lot of them of mediocre performances/talent, weren't making so much guaranteed money I'd probably take their side.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      There is enough blame to go around for everybody. Nobody is coming out of this
      smelling like a rose.

      1. The players are paid millions of dollars to play a kids game and want more?
      Can we be real here?

      2. The owners don't realize that without the players they have no product. And
      with that, they want to give the players LESS than what they're getting now?
      It's their fault in the first place for paying such high salaries.

      You have two sides pulling against the middle and eventually something is
      going to snap...if it already hasn't.

      Go on...pick a side. If you look at it rationally, you can't. Truth is, both sides
      need each other EQUALLY. Until both sides admit that, nothing is going to
      get settled.

      Personally, I don't care if basketball as we know it ceases to exist.

      Haven't watched a pro game since the Knicks last played the Heat in the
      playoffs back in the early part of this century, if memory serves correctly.

      Who I DO feel badly for is the working stiffs (vendors, etc.) because they
      are getting killed by this. And of course the economy is going to take a HUGE
      hit because of all this with the millions that are being lost DAILY.

      Watch...it'll start slowly but eventually you're going to see the results in
      your local area, especially if you live in an NBA town.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        There is enough blame to go around for everybody. Nobody is coming out of this
        smelling like a rose.

        1. The players are paid millions of dollars to play a kids game and want more?
        Can we be real here?

        2. The owners don't realize that without the players they have no product. And
        with that, they want to give the players LESS than what they're getting now?
        It's their fault in the first place for paying such high salaries.

        You have two sides pulling against the middle and eventually something is
        going to snap...if it already hasn't.

        Go on...pick a side. If you look at it rationally, you can't. Truth is, both sides
        need each other EQUALLY. Until both sides admit that, nothing is going to
        get settled.

        Personally, I don't care if basketball as we know it ceases to exist.

        Haven't watched a pro game since the Knicks last played the Heat in the
        playoffs back in the early part of this century, if memory serves correctly.

        Who I DO feel badly for is the working stiffs (vendors, etc.) because they
        are getting killed by this. And of course the economy is going to take a HUGE
        hit because of all this with the millions that are being lost DAILY.

        Watch...it'll start slowly but eventually you're going to see the results in
        your local area, especially if you live in an NBA town.
        You're definitely right on number 2, but number 1 is not true. The players were making 57% of incoming revenue based on the last collective bargaining agreement. They were initially willing to cut 4% off to go to 53%, which at this level of money is millions per team. Then, realizing this was going to stalemate otherwise, were willing to drop to 52 and then 51%. That's 6% off which would equate to an average of in the tens of millions per team. The main problem is a handful of the poorer owners like in Sacramento and Phoenix who have mismanaged their funds and are supposedly "losing" money even though transparency has shown that the lowest grossing team still had almost 100 million dollars after salaries were paid and they somehow lost 3 million dollars. That's like saying you made $90,000 after paying your house and car, but somehow lost $3,000 on all other bills. It's ludicrous. If it were up to the Cubans and the Buss's, this deal would have been done. If the poorer owners want to buy into the big boys league, then they should hire better managers, this wouldn't have happened.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Sunfyre7896 View Post

          You're definitely right on number 2, but number 1 is not true. The players were making 57% of incoming revenue based on the last collective bargaining agreement. They were initially willing to cut 4% off to go to 53%, which at this level of money is millions per team. Then, realizing this was going to stalemate otherwise, were willing to drop to 52 and then 51%. That's 6% off which would equate to an average of in the tens of millions per team. The main problem is a handful of the poorer owners like in Sacramento and Phoenix who have mismanaged their funds and are supposedly "losing" money even though transparency has shown that the lowest grossing team still had almost 100 million dollars after salaries were paid and they somehow lost 3 million dollars. That's like saying you made $90,000 after paying your house and car, but somehow lost $3,000 on all other bills. It's ludicrous. If it were up to the Cubans and the Buss's, this deal would have been done. If the poorer owners want to buy into the big boys league, then they should hire better managers, this wouldn't have happened.
          Here's my point on # 1, which I should have made clearer.

          So what if they're taking a "pay cut?"

          They're freaking making millions of dollars to play a GAME.

          They're not curing cancer or heart disease.

          THEY'RE PLAYING A FREAKING GAME.

          I have no sympathy for a ball player of any kind making millions of dollars
          PLAYING A FREAKING GAME.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            Here's my point on # 1, which I should have made clearer.

            So what if they're taking a "pay cut?"

            They're freaking making millions of dollars to play a GAME.

            They're not curing cancer or heart disease.

            THEY'RE PLAYING A FREAKING GAME.

            I have no sympathy for a ball player of any kind making millions of dollars
            PLAYING A FREAKING GAME.
            Hey Steven...

            Remember the thread where people said Johnny Depp was over paid, and you and I claimed he wasn't, because he sold tickets?

            What's the difference between Depp getting $40 million to act in a movie and a basketball player getting paid millions, who also sells tickets?

            On a seperate note...The owners are locking out the players. It isn't the players saying they aren't getting paid enough and are out on strike. It's the owners saying, we aren't going to pay you as much as we used to.

            Many of the owners have good points, in that they have been losing money. However, it should be noted that the owners are trying to crush the NBA Players Union, just as the owners did to NHL hockey a few years ago.

            I'm not sure whose side I'm on, other than to say...Isn't there enough money to go around and can't you guys flip a coin and still be happy no matter the results of the flip?
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

              I'm not sure whose side I'm on, other than to say...Isn't there enough money to go around and can't you guys flip a coin and still be happy no matter the results of the flip?
              I agree. And yes, I do remember that thread. There is a slight difference though. If Johnny Depp wants $x for a movie and so and so won't give it to him, he'll simply wait for a movie where somebody WILL give it to him.

              With the NBA players, the owners are collectively getting together and saying
              "screw you" to the whole league of players. And yes, in that respect I actually
              have MORE sympathy for them than I do for Johnny Depp because he has more
              opportunity than they do.

              But...and here is the biggest difference...when the players say they're not
              going to play for less money and collectively hold out, it shuts down the
              whole game.

              When Johnny Depp says "screw you, I'm not doing this movie for peanuts"
              it's no big deal. The movie studio gets someone else and Johnny Depp gets
              another movie. Not as many people are affected.

              This NBA mess is screwing thousands.

              And like I said, I have no sympathy for the owners OR the players.

              The owners should realize that without the players there is no product.

              The players should realize that making maybe $15 million a year instead of
              $20 million a year, or whatever the income drop will be, is a relative drop in
              the bucket when you're talking about that kind of money.

              And yes, they should just flip a freakin' coin and be happy with wherever it
              lands.

              But they won't do that. So this mess is going to go on and on and on until
              there is no NBA season.

              We have two children tugging at each other's toys screaming:

              "Let go!"
              "No...YOU let go!"

              Eventually, the toy is going to break.

              Maybe permanently.
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  • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
    Actually, they're in the entertainment business just like people who write and perform songs.

    TL
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    "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

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    • Profile picture of the author khudoes
      the players worked for their pay, i mean have u ever considered the amount of effort it takes to perform on the level of these athletes? its bloody nuts, from their work rate effort in training and their nutrition diet to make them reach levels beyond a normal pro athlete and the sacrifices they make to get it! plus if there is such a high demand in the market to watch them perform then why not set the price higher if it isnt gonna affect the demand that much?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by khudoes View Post

        the players worked for their pay, i mean have u ever considered the amount of effort it takes to perform on the level of these athletes? its bloody nuts, from their work rate effort in training and their nutrition diet to make them reach levels beyond a normal pro athlete and the sacrifices they make to get it! plus if there is such a high demand in the market to watch them perform then why not set the price higher if it isnt gonna affect the demand that much?
        That is a TOTALLY fallacious argument! There are several groups that do the SAME thing and work HARDER to get in BETTER shape! Like the MetRX strong man competition, or mister olympia, etc... And WHAT do THEY get? MAYBE a little fame! MAYBE! But FAR LESS than many sports players! MAYBE some money IF they *****THEMSELVES****** win, ONCE! MAYBE endorsement deals, MAYBE! And as for injuries? Well, I know a guy that just tries to see what the limit COULD be and he nearly died late last year. They put him in a mental ward because they thought he was trying to kill himself! He hurt SO much muscle trying to exercise, that it started to hurt his kidneys!

        HEY, just TRY to think about a major guy in the last 60 years to succeed THERE! The only one I can really picture in my mind, and the only one that is maybe the equal of most sports guys in fame and success is arnold swartzenegger. And HE didn't stay in that one industry. He went to endorsements, films, and now politics. He EVEN(and I believe this is BEFORE he entered politics) got mention in demolition man as being the first foreign born US president. It WAS an old movie!

        At least MOST of the players seem to love the game, and the fame, Win or lose, THEY GET PAID!

        Steve
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