Who The Hell Said: 8$ a day in India is Good Money!

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I said that to someone who was calling my IT department from India.

He "LOLed" for a bit and then said: "8$ a day here is nothing, that's like 300 rupees"

He said that an average IT worker makes 150$
#day #good #hell #india #money
  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    Originally Posted by ildarius View Post

    I said that to someone who was calling my IT department from India.

    He "LOLed" for a bit and then said: "8$ a day here is nothing, that's like 300 rupees"

    He said that an average IT worker makes 150$
    Average IT worker in INDIA makes $4,500/month? I don't think so. If that were true, you would see workers leaving the US to work in India.

    TomG.
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    • Profile picture of the author ildarius
      I know, it doesn't make sense... But I asked the person like 5 times: "You mean a day right? Not a month?"

      He's like: "yes, for sure" , "it depends on the company, but 8$ is nothing"

      May be his math was a bit off, QUITE a bit

      He was saying 5,000 rupees a day is what they make, which is 102.441 USD,
      so times 22, he's looking at: 2244USD a month, but that's still seems like an overkill...

      This is what basic IT tech gets paid in Canada
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    • Profile picture of the author Hardi Wijaya
      Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

      Average IT worker in INDIA makes $4,500/month? I don't think so. If that were true, you would see workers leaving the US to work in India.

      TomG.
      Don't be mistaken. Local IT workers in India and China do make good money. Their bosses make even more.

      These countries have laws to protect the interest of their people. It isn't easy for IT workers from US to work there. Usually US people move to there to fill up the managerial positions, or above.


      Hardi
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

      Average IT worker in INDIA makes $4,500/month? I don't think so. If that were true, you would see workers leaving the US to work in India.

      TomG.
      I don't know how the rest of this thread has gone, but EVEN a $4500/month average IT pay wouldn't necessarily keep them there. I asked some indians about 5 years ago what the average indian makes. They said $8000 , that is $666.66/month about $22/day. Of course, that is AVERAGE! The people I was taking to probably made about $60000+/year here.

      I just realized you might mean the other way. If so, I HATE to burst your bubble. $4500/month is only 54000/year! That is LESS than many IT workers get paid in the US. and I would GLADLY take a cut in pay t stay in the US over india. In India you have:

      1. REAL odd toilets. ODD, since the BRITISH probably put them in, but FORGET IT!
      2. More sickness.
      3. Worse sanitation.
      4. More haggling, and possible ripoffs.
      5. The LONG trip there.
      6. Different laws/requirements.
      7. The caste system.
      8. Different religion.
      9. A whole new country to get used to....

      And DON'T forget, they probably WON'T want to talk to you in English and, even if they did, there IS a communication problem.

      NOPE, the US may not be the BEST, but I will take it over india ANY DAY!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I don't know how the rest of this thread has gone, but EVEN a $4500/month average IT pay wouldn't necessarily keep them there. I asked some indians about 5 years ago what the average indian makes. They said $8000 , that is $666.66/month about $22/day. Of course, that is AVERAGE! The people I was taking to probably made about $60000+/year here.

        I just realized you might mean the other way. If so, I HATE to burst your bubble. $4500/month is only 54000/year! That is LESS than many IT workers get paid in the US. and I would GLADLY take a cut in pay t stay in the US over india. In India you have:

        1. REAL odd toilets. ODD, since the BRITISH probably put them in, but FORGET IT!
        2. More sickness.
        3. Worse sanitation.
        4. More haggling, and possible ripoffs.
        5. The LONG trip there.
        6. Different laws/requirements.
        7. The caste system.
        8. Different religion.
        9. A whole new country to get used to....

        And DON'T forget, they probably WON'T want to talk to you in English and, even if they did, there IS a communication problem.

        NOPE, the US may not be the BEST, but I will take it over india ANY DAY!

        Steve
        SEASONED Steve... you might want to stop making racial comments.... the discussion here is about salaries in India.... not whether YOU want to live there..
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
          Originally Posted by Prashaant View Post

          SEASONED Steve... you might want to stop making racial comments.... the discussion here is about salaries in India.... not whether YOU want to live there..
          there's nothing racial in his comments, he's talking about the country
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Prashaant View Post

          SEASONED Steve... you might want to stop making racial comments.... the discussion here is about salaries in India.... not whether YOU want to live there..
          I said NOTHING racial! Oh yeah, it is just what I have seen and heard, EVEN FROM OTHER INDIANS!!!!!One woman told me she gets sick in india about SIX times as often as she does here! And she is INDIAN! She was BORN THERE! She lived most of her life there! She goes back like every YEAR!

          And someone brought up about how a relatively minor change in income could cause one to move to/from there. So my comments WERE on topic!

          Sorry if YOU disagree! I ALSO said that india varies ALL OVER THE PLACE!

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Lewis
    There's a bullshitter born every minute. ;-)

    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

      Average IT worker in INDIA makes $4,500/month? I don't think so. If that were true, you would see workers leaving the US to work in India.

      TomG.
      Originally Posted by Allen Lewis View Post

      There's a bullshitter born every minute. ;-)

      Allen
      Allen and Tom!

      How do you make your guesses? Do you even know what happens in India?

      In New Delhi, in the posh areas a 300 sqft. house costs $3Million... Yes $3 Million. Even I live in half a million dollar house and this is just an apartment.

      My mother earns nearly %1500 from her job... 5 days a week, 5 hours a day, and gets a HUGE amount of compensation for everything... Travelling, Dearness Alowances, Medical Allowances etc. She is a clerk. But she is also a business woman who earns a lot more than $500/mo. from her arbitrage business alone... She buys wholesale clothes, and sells retail. Its like an offline membership... Her members get it from her.

      Now to talk about IT people, I have many friends earning much more than $4.5K a month. Much more.

      Yes India might be a cheap outsourcing destination for you, but that is when you hire non-graduate, and unemployed people.

      Indias Inc. grows at over 7.5% in 2008-09 fiscal year, while the global economy recedes.

      People here aremaking a lot of money... esp. in the metropolitan areas, much more than people in the U.S or the U.K.. Strange but true!

      -Lakshay

      P.S. College students make what in the US? $7/hour? I made $65/hour coaching students... Physics classes! And when I went to their homes, they paid me as much as $300/hour. I still coach, but only at a very high fees... for a batch of 40 I charge $1000/3 hour session. PLUS they take care of my travelling to the institute from my home and back.
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      • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
        Hello Lakshay,

        I base my comments on fellow developers I used to work with when I was an ecommerce developer. They told me what they were making back home in India before they moved to the USA.

        TomG.

        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        Allen and Tom!

        How do you make your guesses? Do you even know what happens in India?

        In New Delhi, in the posh areas a 300 sqft. house costs $3Million... Yes $3 Million. Even I live in half a million dollar house and this is just an apartment.

        My mother earns nearly %1500 from her job... 5 days a week, 5 hours a day, and gets a HUGE amount of compensation for everything... Travelling, Dearness Alowances, Medical Allowances etc. She is a clerk. But she is also a business woman who earns a lot more than $500/mo. from her arbitrage business alone... She buys wholesale clothes, and sells retail. Its like an offline membership... Her members get it from her.

        Now to talk about IT people, I have many friends earning much more than $4.5K a month. Much more.

        Yes India might be a cheap outsourcing destination for you, but that is when you hire non-graduate, and unemployed people.

        Indias Inc. grows at over 7.5% in 2008-09 fiscal year, while the global economy recedes.

        People here aremaking a lot of money... esp. in the metropolitan areas, much more than people in the U.S or the U.K.. Strange but true!

        -Lakshay

        P.S. College students make what in the US? $7/hour? I made $65/hour coaching students... Physics classes! And when I went to their homes, they paid me as much as $300/hour. I still coach, but only at a very high fees... for a batch of 40 I charge $1000/3 hour session. PLUS they take care of my travelling to the institute from my home and back.
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      • Profile picture of the author Srikanth D
        I am from India and I am an IT professional. I am just quoting the figure I make. I earn about $20 a day. I am relatively new to this sector. Higher ranked IT professionals do make anything between $40 to $80 per day depending on their experience and expertise. Very few elite group make in excess of $3000 per month.

        As lakshaybehl mentioned, India is growing economically and wages are constantly on the raise.

        Hope this clears the air!

        p.s: My company charges $20/per hour from our client for my service. (But I get $25 per day). So don't be surprised if you see somewhere that Indian IT professionals are billed for $20 and above/hour.
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      • Profile picture of the author lburrell
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        Allen and Tom!

        How do you make your guesses? Do you even know what happens in India?

        In New Delhi, in the posh areas a 300 sqft. house costs $3Million... Yes $3 Million. Even I live in half a million dollar house and this is just an apartment.

        My mother earns nearly %1500 from her job... 5 days a week, 5 hours a day, and gets a HUGE amount of compensation for everything... Travelling, Dearness Alowances, Medical Allowances etc. She is a clerk. But she is also a business woman who earns a lot more than $500/mo. from her arbitrage business alone... She buys wholesale clothes, and sells retail. Its like an offline membership... Her members get it from her.

        Now to talk about IT people, I have many friends earning much more than $4.5K a month. Much more.

        Yes India might be a cheap outsourcing destination for you, but that is when you hire non-graduate, and unemployed people.

        Indias Inc. grows at over 7.5% in 2008-09 fiscal year, while the global economy recedes.

        People here aremaking a lot of money... esp. in the metropolitan areas, much more than people in the U.S or the U.K.. Strange but true!

        -Lakshay

        P.S. College students make what in the US? $7/hour? I made $65/hour coaching students... Physics classes! And when I went to their homes, they paid me as much as $300/hour. I still coach, but only at a very high fees... for a batch of 40 I charge $1000/3 hour session. PLUS they take care of my travelling to the institute from my home and back.
        Ok I have some skills. India sounds like a great 5 year stop
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      • Profile picture of the author davebo
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        • Profile picture of the author Scott Burton
          Originally Posted by davebo View Post

          Second, why does everyone say arbitrage when they refer to anything about selling for a higher price than you buy for. That's not arbitrage.
          Misapplication of the term. It's just like how many people misuse the term Ironic. It's not Ironic that you get a new car the day before you die, although some people will use the term irony there.

          Irony is getting an outcome diametrically opposed to what would be expected.

          Likewise, In economics and finance, arbitrage is the practice of taking advantage of a price differential between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices.

          If you can pick up a rug in Madrid Spain for $30 USD, and the same rug in Nice France costs $90 USD, this is a difference in markets, and thus could be a facet of arbitrage. Unfortunately, in part due to misuse of the term arbitrage in varying sources, the distinctiveness of arbitrage versus simple discount or wholesale concepts seems to have blurred.
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        • Profile picture of the author kumar
          Originally Posted by davebo View Post

          First off, that's not how it looked in Slumdog Millionaire. Aren't movies reality?
          Are they, Dave? Slumdog Millionaire, as I wrote somewhere above, portrays the ugly underbelly side of India, which could be a reality in the slums but not a reflection on the Indian society at large. And I believe every nation, howsoever prosperous, has this ugly underbelly.

          No offense, if you want know the reality, you should perhaps look at (non-fiction) books, not movies. Since we are discussing India, you might find Thomas Friedman's 'The World Is Flat' interesting and revealing.
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          • Profile picture of the author davebo
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            • Profile picture of the author kumar
              Originally Posted by davebo View Post

              I find this hard to believe. I get all my information from movies and it has served me well so far. If I want to learn about the mob, I watch Godfather. Salesmanship? Boiler room or Glengarry, GlenRoss. It's can't miss.
              Dave,

              I find it hard to believe that you get 'information' from movies. Or perhaps you meant documentaries?
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      • Profile picture of the author Success With Dany
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        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        Allen and Tom!

        How do you make your guesses? Do you even know what happens in India?

        In New Delhi, in the posh areas a 300 sqft. house costs $3Million... Yes $3 Million. Even I live in half a million dollar house and this is just an apartment.

        My mother earns nearly %1500 from her job... 5 days a week, 5 hours a day, and gets a HUGE amount of compensation for everything... Travelling, Dearness Alowances, Medical Allowances etc. She is a clerk. But she is also a business woman who earns a lot more than $500/mo. from her arbitrage business alone... She buys wholesale clothes, and sells retail. Its like an offline membership... Her members get it from her.

        Now to talk about IT people, I have many friends earning much more than $4.5K a month. Much more.

        Yes India might be a cheap outsourcing destination for you, but that is when you hire non-graduate, and unemployed people.

        Indias Inc. grows at over 7.5% in 2008-09 fiscal year, while the global economy recedes.

        People here aremaking a lot of money... esp. in the metropolitan areas, much more than people in the U.S or the U.K.. Strange but true!

        -Lakshay

        P.S. College students make what in the US? $7/hour? I made $65/hour coaching students... Physics classes! And when I went to their homes, they paid me as much as $300/hour. I still coach, but only at a very high fees... for a batch of 40 I charge $1000/3 hour session. PLUS they take care of my travelling to the institute from my home and back.
        What and where is the Harvard of India?

        And where do the Aishwarya Rai look-a-likes hang out in Mumbai?
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by Allen Lewis View Post

      Those numbers are ridiculous... and outdated, and not true.

      They are from 1990's when literacy ratio was very low. Ever since the launch of Sarva Shiksha Abhiyaan (Compulsary Education to all Movement) in 1995 literacy rate has grown, and in metros people are very rich. Have always been.

      Yes, there are still villages where there is no electricity and people make less than $1/day... But those are not what define brand India... And those people are being genberously compensated for by the Govt. through schemes. They pay nothing for their food... almost nothing! They get free education, healthcare etc.

      And these are not the people who can work for you. they do not have skills, and hence they are unable to do anything at all... People with skills charge a premium for their services in India.

      Your standard article writers from India write crap and charge next to nothing. Why? They have no degree or education or experience with English.

      But you acn't get educated lot to write articles for you at all... Let alone cheap. I won't write an article for $20... why? Because I am used to getting paid a lot more for my time.

      -Lakshay
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      • Profile picture of the author Allen Lewis
        Lakshay, so what are the true numbers?

        By the way, found another article on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India

        Seems like the rich there are mightily rich, but the poor are desperately poor.

        Allen
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        • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
          Originally Posted by Allen Lewis View Post

          Lakshay, so what are the true numbers?

          Allen
          Allen, the true numbers greatly vary.

          I live in a country where the rick make it to the top ten of the world and poor make it to the bottommost ten...

          Averages can be very deceptive, but people from IIT's (Me), NIT's (National Institutes of Technology), DCE (Delhi College of Engineering) would not even touch a job less than $60K/annum.

          These are highly qualified professionals and these people define markets including IM... Not the other way round.

          -Lakshay
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          • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
            I am looking forward to a 5000 sqft. + single family villa in Vegas
            Why?

            After living there and seeing what I have seen (I had a unique perspective into the real vegas that most residents of vegas never see) I would never recommend anyone live there.
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            • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
              Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

              Why?

              After living there and seeing what I have seen (I had a unique perspective into the real vegas that most residents of vegas never see) I would never recommend anyone live there.
              He's got the money to, so why not? It's somewhere he wants to go and live with his family. That should be a good enough reason.
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              • Profile picture of the author drmani
                India has a vast and deep divide, income-wise.

                I know people who consider Rs.100 a day ($2 US) as 'good' income - and live
                happily.

                I know people who make Rs.250,000,000 a year ($5 million) - and also are happy!

                Yes, both groups I know SOCIALLY (go figure!)

                Education certainly raises income potential. And the term 'I.T.' is just
                as uniform as the term 'Indian' (which is a collective term applied to one
                in every 6 people in the world!)

                I.T. can mean programmers, project managers, group leaders, CEOs, exec VPs
                and owner/founders of I.T. firms - each of which would have different income.

                Lakshay is right on the button with his observation that while you can get
                cheap labor outsourced to India, don't make the assumption that those rates
                are in any way reflective of all (or even most) of the populace.

                There are Indians whose lifestyles and bank accounts will make American
                millionaires (maybe even billionaires) blush in shame!

                Oh, and real estate in Mumbai (when I last checked) was third in value only
                to Tokyo and London... and cheaper than downtown New York!



                All success
                Dr.Mani
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            • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
              Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

              Why?

              After living there and seeing what I have seen (I had a unique perspective into the real vegas that most residents of vegas never see) I would never recommend anyone live there.
              And Josh!

              Why's that so?

              that breaks my heart!!

              Care to elaborate?

              -Lakshay
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        • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
          Originally Posted by Allen Lewis View Post

          By the way, found another article on wiki: Poverty in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          Seems like the rich there are mightily rich, but the poor are desperately poor.

          Allen
          Again Allen, these numbers are very deceptive. People Bihar and other states come to delhi and pull Riclshaws to make $10/day or more in just 6-7 hours. True.

          Most of these are unskilled labourers who are illiterate, so much so that they can't even sign and use their thumb impresssions instead. The numbers on WP. are outdated for the fresh info is very different. As I have said, education and literacy is the top priority for people in India.

          I get paid very highly for my teaching and coaching services. but I still make it a point ot spend 4 hours a week teaching high school students from poorer sections of the society absolutely free. Of ocurse there are tax benefits for me, but then that is just one reason. Thje main reason is that I feel like on of those who contribute to the actual growth of this country.

          If you ever come to India, expect to pay as much as you'd in the US for the same quality of ambience. Or else you will get gutterlike services and products... :-)
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          • Profile picture of the author Jesus Perez
            Best thing I've read all day. I'm so glad you're helping out.

            Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

            ... but I still make it a point ot spend 4 hours a week teaching high school students from poorer sections of the society absolutely free.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
          That sounds uncannily like either the US or UK!
          Originally Posted by Allen Lewis View Post

          Seems like the rich there are mightily rich, but the poor are desperately poor.
          Allen
          @Roger

          I've known many people from India both as colleagues and dear friends. In all cases their commitment to education and hard work was unbelievable. I've always seen the disparity between our 2 cultures and been shocked by it

          One of my friends is working 3 jobs so she can put her 2 children through private education she is so committed

          Kim
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          • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
            Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

            One of my friends is working 3 jobs so she can put her 2 children through private education she is so committed

            Kim
            Kim!

            My mom did that too... worked 16 hours a day to sned us to the best school around and then the best college. How can I express what I feel about it?

            -Lakshay
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Kim,

              I've known many people from India both as colleagues and dear friends. In all cases their commitment to education and hard work was unbelievable. I've always seen the disparity between our 2 cultures and been shocked by it

              One of my friends is working 3 jobs so she can put her 2 children through private education she is so committed
              I'm a big Michael Palin fan and have all of his travel DVDs. On the 'round the world in 80 days' I love the part where he sails on a dow to India, and has the old guy listening to Springsteen at full volume. It was his favourite part of the voyage (because of the bond they developed) and I recently saw a program where he went back after 20 years, to trace as many of them as he could.

              After many years of youth where I was blind to it, I now find I learn the most from observing cultures different to my own.
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              Roger Davis

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              • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
                Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


                After many years of youth where I was blind to it, I now find I learn the most from observing cultures different to my own.
                Even foreigners who frequently travel there or even live there don't really, truely feel this way deep in the root of their soul, outward appearance, cordially tolerant, yes, but inwardly, not really.

                The price of doing buisness or getting whatever one wants.

                There may be fewer who truely believe this than one might believe.

                Why would I accept Wikapedia or any other institution as "gospel" when people who live there, grew up there in all parts, everyday, TODAY, can tell you the REAL DEAL, not some pseudo-expert database of journalism or so-called investigative stats.

                The warm mother-like embrace of Reasonable Deniability of Reality is so much more comforting, makes sense of the world, even if that base-less belief cost millions there life.

                "No skin off my nose, long as its not in my backyard."

                Goddamn tired of "experts" , intellectual "pundents" , t.v. media talking heads, and other self-angrandizing important mofo's.

                Their rep and bad information is more important than reality and peoples very life.

                And they say only doctors have a God-Complex.

                Call it what it is. A Satanic-Mind-Complex.

                The 13 th Warrior
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                • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                  Hi the 13th Warrior,

                  Could you possibly clarify your point, in a short, clear manner please?

                  I can't make head nor tail of the above post, but I am a little intrigued as to what you are getting at.
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                  Roger Davis

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                  • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
                    Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


                    Could you possibly clarify your point, in a short, clear manner please?
                    Clarification unnecessary.

                    In short, there are two kinds of people.

                    The slug-like moth that morphs into beautiful , delicate butterfly. Willing to Evolve in a timely manner.

                    Then there are snakes. When they shed, they just become more slippery, supple snakes.

                    An "illusion" of evolution.

                    Talk and reason with a snake for 10 million years on eating vegetables and fruit and not killing or biting anything that moves.

                    That person is crazier than the snake.

                    Any problem relating to that snake, one MUST go to the creator and designer of that snake.

                    Any other information below that is useless and will get one and others in trouble, wasting time and costing lives.

                    The 13 th Warrior
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                • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
                  "Oh, yeah, man, I been to india once, and this is how it is...."

                  "Yeah, dude, I don't recommend you go to india, had a bad experience there...."

                  " Yeah, man, you know how them indians are......", and they AIN'T callin 'em "indians".

                  Idiots.

                  Thus begins the " everyone knows thats whats happening in india, cause my brother went there once, and of course, I trust my brother, so thats how it is man.....,

                  ".......or this (undercover elitist) reporter or (racist) expert said such and such, blah, blah, f***in blah....,"

                  And so, thru the years and centuries, this "data-base" of "facts" is born.

                  As good as the Bible.

                  MoFo's.

                  The 13 th Warrior
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                  • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                    Hi The 13th Warrior,

                    That's still not clear and even though I am trying, I fail to see how any of what you have said corresponds to what I said that you quoted. Thanks for trying though.
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                    Roger Davis

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                  • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
                    Originally Posted by The 13 th Warrior View Post

                    "Oh, yeah, man, I been to india once, and this is how it is...."

                    "Yeah, dude, I don't recommend you go to india, had a bad experience there...."

                    " Yeah, man, you know how them indians are......", and they AIN'T callin 'em "indians".

                    Idiots.

                    Thus begins the " everyone knows thats whats happening in india, cause my brother went there once, and of course, I trust my brother, so thats how it is man.....,

                    ".......or this (undercover elitist) reporter or (racist) expert said such and such, blah, blah, f***in blah....,"

                    And so, thru the years and centuries, this "data-base" of "facts" is born.

                    As good as the Bible.

                    MoFo's.

                    The 13 th Warrior

                    This, ladies and gentlemen, is why we avoid the gratuitous consumption of alcohol before posting.
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              • Profile picture of the author NiallR
                I worked on 2 separate projects in India over a period of 4 months. One in Mumbai and one in Bangalore.

                This was in 2001 and 2003. At the time the average yearly wage for a college graduate was $3,500 per year. That was for entry level IT support staff. Senior staff weren't making much more.

                Indian farmers can earn as little as $100 PER YEAR.

                India is a country of direct contrats in my opinion. There are the very rich and the very poor. There is an emerging middle class but it's early days yet.

                Believe me companies like Dell and MS ain't going to India to pay $2,400 a month to staff. Not with an infrastructure where certain parts of the major cities have to cut power because of shortages every single day. They go there because labour is cheap and there are hundreds of thousands of college graduates each year looking for work.

                Foreign companies DO NOT outsource out of kindness. That's just a truth.

                5 star hotels (Sheraton etc) cost about $70 per night for a luxury room. 7 star hotels like the Leela Palace in Mumbai go for about $90 per night. And I've done my maths because I plan to do a long term visit to Goa - you can live there comfortably in an apartment, eat,m drink and do your thing for $500 per month.

                Maybe a $3,000,000 apartment would be sold in a gated community with security police like in Haiko in Mumbai but even at that I don't see how local pay scales could cover the cost.

                IF things have changed dramatically over the last 5 years then fair enough but my experience doesn't see that happening.

                Just me
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          • Profile picture of the author kumar
            Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

            That sounds uncannily like either the US or UK!


            @Roger

            I've known many people from India both as colleagues and dear friends. In all cases their commitment to education and hard work was unbelievable. I've always seen the disparity between our 2 cultures and been shocked by it

            One of my friends is working 3 jobs so she can put her 2 children through private education she is so committed

            Kim
            Kim,

            Just wanted to chime with my Indian Fraternity here. For better or for worse, Indians do put a lot of emphasis on higher education. So, Indian parents would put everything on line to get their children to the Harvards and Stanfords of the world (ok, since you are English, I'll add Oxfords and Cambridges ). Believe me, if you throw a stone in any of the Ivy League schools, you will have a great probability of hitting an Indian student or for that matter, even in the Silicon Valley! Not trying to be overtly patriotic, but according to some surveys, Indians are among the most prosperous communities in the US and UK.

            As Dr. Mani and Lakhay Behl said, there's still is a lot of disparity in the income levels in India. So while you will see 3 Indian billionaires in the top 10 of the world's richest people (last year's Forbes ranking) and Indian corporations acquiring some of the biggest companies in the world (think Corus, Arcelor and Jaguar-LandRover from last year), the poverty and human development levels leave a lot to be desired. We are working on it...as our politicians say!

            By the way, did you watch Slumdog Millionaire? Though its not reflective of the Indian Society at large, it does show our ugly underbelly side...
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            • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
              Hi Kumar

              I remember Idi Amin throwing out many Asian people in the 70's from Uganda and many of those people coming to the UK with literally just the clothes on their backs

              Fast forward several years, a girl whom I became very close to arrived here at the age of 13 not being able to speak english. A few years later she was sitting her A levels, and ended up going to Oxbridge. This was thru not only her own tenacity, but also that of her parents. (Her parents also ended up owning a prosperous business)

              lol my husband works for Corus, and so far he's been pretty impressed with his new bosses,

              And I'm hoping to see Slumdog very soon I've heard some fab reviews about it

              Cheers
              Kim



              Originally Posted by kumar View Post

              Kim,

              Just wanted to chime with my Indian Fraternity here. For good or for worse, Indians do put a lot of emphasis on higher education. So, parents in India would put everything on line to get their children to the Harvards and Stanfords of the world (ok, since you are English, I'll add Oxfords and Cambridges ). Believe me, if you throw a stone in any of the Ivy League schools, you will have a great probability of hitting an Indian student or for that matter, even in the Silicon Valley! Not trying to be overtly patriotic, but according to some surveys, Indians are among the most prosperous communities in the US and UK.

              As Dr. Mani and Lakhay Behl said, there's still is a lot of disparity in the income levels in India. So while you will see 3 Indian billionaires in the top 10 of the world's richest people (last year's Forbes ranking) and Indian corporations acquiring some of the biggest companies in the world (think Corus, Arcelor and Jaguar-LandRover from last year), the poverty and human development levels leave a lot to be desired. We are working on it...as our politicians say!

              By the way, did you watch Slumdog Millionaire? Though its not reflective of the Indian Society at large, it does show our ugly underbelly side...
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              • Profile picture of the author kumar
                Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

                Hi Kumar



                lol my husband works for Corus, and so far he's been pretty impressed with his new bosses,

                And I'm hoping to see Slumdog very soon I've heard some fab reviews about it

                Cheers
                Kim
                Kim,

                The Tatas (new owners of Corus) are planning to shed off around 3000 jobs from Corus. I sincerely hope your hubby is not one of them.

                Yeah, Slumdog should be a must-see movie. It swept the Golden Globe awards last week and has the highest number of Oscar nominations this year.
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    1$ = 48.721 indian rupees.

    Your apartment costs
    24,400,728.27 rupees?


    Makes it sound really expensive when you say it that way.

    I think you can find cheap outsourcing wherever you go, but them guys on Lakshey's side are smart. Really smart.
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

      1$ = 48.721 indian rupees.

      Your apartment costs
      24,400,728.27 rupees?


      Makes it sound really expensive when you say it that way.

      I think you can find cheap outsourcing wherever you go, but them guys on Lakshey's side are smart. Really smart.
      That's what it cost when I purchased it back in 2007... Now it would be much more than that!
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      • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        That's what it cost when I purchased it back in 2007... Now it would be much more than that!

        Hmm, does that mean my currency converter is outdated?

        I wouldn't doubt it.

        But thats still pretty expensive to live there, I can see why you'd want to move to Las Vegas and get a condo there, haha!

        I'm sure it would be a few hundred thousand less. Maybe, depends on your tastes and where you want to live.
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        • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
          Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

          Hmm, does that mean my currency converter is outdated?

          I wouldn't doubt it.

          But thats still pretty expensive to live there, I can see why you'd want to move to Las Vegas and get a condo there, haha!

          I'm sure it would be a few hundred thousand less. Maybe, depends on your tastes and where you want to live.
          Your currency converter is OK... Just that I do not know the exact current price of my Apt. I reckon its around Rs. 32 Million

          I never said I want a Condo... I am looking forward to a 5000 sqft. + single family villa in Vegas... But I am just planning at the moment... Nothing certain.

          -Lakshay
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      • Profile picture of the author mynameisneo
        Banned
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        • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
          Originally Posted by mynameisneo View Post

          Just when I started reading this post and thought I'd come to rescue India, our very own Lakshya was already here! Thanks a lot Lakshya! I couldn't have said it in a better way!

          Its funny hearing so many things about India that people around the world seem to 'know'. Yet, surprisingly even Indians do not know them! But that's okay. Because I too was told many stories about US, France and England before I visited them. Reality, as in most cases, was entirely different and I loved those countries and the people.

          After knowing, interacting and working with friends and other people from so many countries I have come to realize that we are more similar than we are different - both in terms of people and countries. And oh no, the old saying that 'we're all one' is definitely not a cliche! Nothing ever said was truer!

          I'm glad Lakshya has been able to throw a little light on the situation. Its amazing how the internet can kill false stories and get the real truth out in the open - about ALL things in life, all around the world

          Thanks everyone!

          Cheers!
          Very true Santosh!

          We often live in a fantasy world until we see the real world!

          Things are constantly evolving.

          Last year in IIT, interns from France came along. One of the girls, Anais and I becaome very good freinds. She told me this:- "I'd rather live in India. For the scope for improvement here is aplenty and that in france is next to nothing. At the same time, you can get everything you need for a royal life right here in India pretty much like France... in the metro's that is". She got married on Jan10'th 2008 in India with a french man and now they are both living here. Oh, and by the way I taught them IM... A lot of what I knew back then. Now they have a 5 figure monthly IM business...

          -Lakshay
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        • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
          Originally Posted by mynameisneo View Post

          Because I too was told many stories about US, France and England before I visited them. Reality, as in most cases, was entirely different
          Back in 1997 the company I was contracting at brought over 2 guys from India to help with a project. The most surprising thing to them was going out to eat at a buffet restaurant. That seemed to be quite a shock to them.

          Regarding the pricing of outsourcing IT work to India this has gotten to be pretty much on par with what you'll pay IT people here in the US outside of a few major metro areas when you pay for high quality work. You can find cheap, inexperienced, people for less though and you get what you pay for.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    Just FYI... When I look at reasl estate pricing in the U.S. I feel... Boy that is cheap! Haha, that's what villas in smaller states like Goa cost!

    Have a look...

    Goa Property for Sale and Vacation Rental

    That's like $200K for villas in Goa... Goa is ten times cheaper than Mumbai and Delhi. Compare this to Mercedes homes in the US
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  • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
    Wow, If thats cheap, why not buy your own island?

    I've seen islands for 30k to 250k and more.
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

      Wow, If thats cheap, why not buy your own island?

      I've seen islands for 30k to 250k and more.
      I'm not interested in Islands at the moment.. Because I am kind of sea-scared.

      Just FYI... Small 100 sqft. shops in Commercial places in New Delhi like the Chandani Chowk cost more than Manhattan... Millions of dollars per hundred square feet. And you can't even find one to buy on each road. Poeple are just not going to sell... Shopkeepers from those areas do Millions every week... With just 100-200 sq.ft. of commercial lands...
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      • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        I'm not interested in Islands at the moment.. Because I am kind of sea-scared.

        Just FYI... Small 100 sqft. shops in Commercial places in New Delhi like the Chandani Chowk cost more than Manhattan... Millions of dollars per hundred square feet. And you can't even find one to buy on each road. Poeple are just not going to sell... Shopkeepers from those areas do Millions every week... With just 100-200 sq.ft. of commercial lands...
        You can always get an island in a small lake.

        And maybe I should rob a few banks, get some money, head over to India, sell my wares for a few months, maybe a few years, sell everything, including the land, and return to the homeland a prince!

        Sounds like a plan.
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        • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
          Originally Posted by Buildingfutures View Post

          You can always get an island in a small lake.

          And maybe I should rob a few banks, get some money, head over to India, sell my wares for a few months, maybe a few years, sell everything, including the land, and return to the homeland a prince!

          Sounds like a plan.
          Property prices are now increasing... but the rate of increase in property price is slower. but if you invest wisely, you can still make good money from property in India... I bought a shop in an upcoming mall in Jul 2008... for $200,000. Now I have potential buyerts calling me every week for $350,000, but I want $400,000... I reckon I'll get there by March!

          -Lakshay
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          • Profile picture of the author Buildingfutures
            Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

            Property prices are now increasing... but the rate of increase in property price is slower. but if you invest wisely, you can still make good money from property in India... I bought a shop in an upcoming mall in Jul 2008... for $200,000. Now I have potential buyerts calling me every week for $350,000, but I want $400,000... I reckon I'll get there by March!

            -Lakshay
            If I had that kind of money to spend, you'd know I'd be investing it in all the right places with properties.

            Lucky guy, you'll have half a mill by Before April. Damn. Haha!
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        I'm not interested in Islands at the moment.. Because I am kind of sea-scared.

        Just FYI... Small 100 sqft. shops in Commercial places in New Delhi like the Chandani Chowk cost more than Manhattan... Millions of dollars per hundred square feet. And you can't even find one to buy on each road. Poeple are just not going to sell... Shopkeepers from those areas do Millions every week... With just 100-200 sq.ft. of commercial lands...
        I saw a program last week on India where they said that Delhi has more millionaires living there than in New York (city). It's just the gap between the very wealthy and the very poor is much greater than many other places. I learnt something new!

        Rich
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        • Profile picture of the author ildarius
          Wow this thread really took off...

          I think I should have included more details about that particular IT tech and why I was so surprised (hopefully me being surprised didn't insult anyone).

          From what I know the guy performs a fairly simple job. He monitors a certain applications and contacts the right people with the right information when something goes wrong.

          This is not a manager or an application designer... more QA than anything else.

          I know a couple of people that do something very similar in MTL and they get paid roughly the same amount, but he may be telling the truth...

          There are companies in the States that outsource to Canada, because of huge Tax breaks they get from the local government (which makes local workers more affordable).

          Believe it or not but in Moscow some expat Tractor drivers get paid 8,000$ a month, being Russian I still coulnd't believe it, but it's true.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Lewis
    "As of 2005, 85.7% of the population lives on less than $2.50 (PPP) a day, down from 92.5% in 1981."

    Even if the numbers are screwed up, it can't be screwed up by a lot.

    Of course numbers are deceptive. But they are usually more reliable than just one person's view.

    Never mind. I'll drop it

    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by Allen Lewis View Post

      "As of 2005, 85.7% of the population lives on less than $2.50 (PPP) a day, down from 92.5% in 1981."

      Even if the numbers are screwed up, it can't be screwed up by a lot.

      Of course numbers are deceptive. But they are usually more reliable than just one person's view.

      Never mind. I'll drop it

      Allen
      Those numbers are actually very wrong... And that is user-generated content. Based on wild guesses. Poverty line is not $0.4per day... Its $1.65/day! WOOF. Earlier it was $1.86/day when 1US$ was equal to Rs. 38 in 2008. Now it is Rs. 48 so things have changed.

      Time for The actual figures- Less than 71% of the Indians live BPL (Below poverty line).

      Granted, only about 10% of the Indians live in Metro's, but that is where people have coomputers. Rural people don't!

      -Lakshay

      p.S. Actually another Indian chimed in and backed up what I said... So I am not alone.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        Time for The actual figures- Less than 71% of the Indians live BPL (Below poverty line).
        Do you mean ABOVE the poverty line? Not sure if someone else asked before me, but that number frightened me when you said it and would work against your argument. It's probably 25% or so BELOW the poverty line, no?

        Alice
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Alice Seba View Post

          Do you mean ABOVE the poverty line? Not sure if someone else asked before me, but that number frightened me when you said it and would work against your argument. It's probably 25% or so BELOW the poverty line, no?

          Alice
          Indians, since they are NOT white get all the perks here for people of a protected class. That is LUDICROUS since most are in the upper castes of indian society! HOW do I know? Because a lot of those in lower castes are EXCLUDED from a lot of this. It may not be racism, but it is DARN CLOSE! HECK, a rose by any other name... If they don't treat their own better, why should they get preferential treatment HERE!?

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author visit_faraz
    I have to agree with dr.mani.
    As for lakshay, he seems to be talking about the millionaires in India.
    If we talk about the average worker or the upper and lower middle class, then we can have monthly incomes ranging from 100 - 500$ a month(for the lower middle class) and from about 1000$ to 3000$ for the upper middle class.

    This is just a rough estimate and may vary a bit , but that is the average.

    So, there might be people for whom $8 a day is good money, but there are few chances that those people might even have their own computer.

    Most of the people here, would be happy with 1500 or 2000 dollars a month and I am talking about the average workers here not the millionaires.

    bye,
    faraz
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by visit_faraz View Post

      I have to agree with dr.mani.
      As for lakshay, he seems to be talking about the millionaires in India.
      If we talk about the average worker or the upper and lower middle class, then we can have monthly incomes ranging from 100 - 500$ a month(for the lower middle class) and from about 1000$ to 3000$ for the upper middle class.

      This is just a rough estimate and may vary a bit , but that is the average.

      So, there might be people for whom $8 a day is good money, but there are few chances that those people might even have their own computer.

      Most of the people here, would be happy with 1500 or 2000 dollars a month and I am talking about the average workers here not the millionaires.

      bye,
      faraz
      faraz!

      I was talking about the above average people...

      Poeple who specialize in something...

      They are the people whom you'd want to work with anyday!

      What can I do if they are all millionaires?

      -Lakshay
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      • Profile picture of the author visit_faraz
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        faraz!

        I was talking about the above average people...

        Poeple who specialize in something...

        They are the people whom you'd want to work with anyday!

        What can I do if they are all millionaires?

        -Lakshay
        haha.Good one .
        This one really put a smile on my face.

        Have a nice day.

        bye,
        faraz
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi lakshaybehl,

        Dearness Alowances
        What are these please? Does 'dearness' = expensiveness?

        My lasting impression of some of the Indians I met in England are -

        1. Two brothers who ran a post office, who were very 'English' with a great sense of humour. They worked extremely hard and had not had a holiday in seven years, before finally getting a week off. They were business addicts and also ran another six businesses.

        I used to go there daily to send out parcels for my ebay business. Whenever he asked about my business I could tell he was planning business number 8 ;-)

        I distinctly remember the one brother, who was about five foot tall, going outside his post office to 'shoo off' the local gang of thugs who were being disruptive. The 'thugs' were so shocked by this little guy's tenacity, they sloped off...

        2. Doing some building work at the house of a different Indian man. As I walked up his stairs he had (as usual) photographs of his children at their university graduations. The thing was I think he had seven children, and you could tell that not one of them would have been allowed to NOT graduate, and the trail of pictures up the stairway seemed to go on forever.

        In short, the ones I meet universally demonstrate a commitment to excellence, maximising opportunity and sheer hard work. It provides a very enlightening perspective on the contrast between them and the average Westerner, who (in general) have been conditioned to take opportunity for granted, and often fail to make the most of them.

        Another interesting contrast was that most of the people in the brothers' post office, (who incidentally used to get in my way as I tried to quickly drop off my parcels) were cashing their unemployment benefit before heading off to the pub/bookmakers. I'll leave the reader to conclude what the contrast was.
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        • Profile picture of the author Sagar Mehta
          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          Hi lakshaybehl,

          What are these please? Does 'dearness' = expensiveness?
          Yes, Dearness Allowance is a part of the basic salary. It's calculated at a certain percentage of the basic salary of a person (that is, the basic pay without any benefits). It is given on the bases of the inflation rate which is calculated from CPI (Consumer Price Index) of that geographical area. It's a way to enable people bear the cost living which increases due to inflation. It's revised every 5 years.

          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          In short, the ones I meet universally demonstrate a commitment to excellence, maximising opportunity and sheer hard work. It provides a very enlightening perspective on the contrast between them and the average Westerner, who (in general) have been conditioned to take opportunity for granted, and often fail to make the most of them.
          THAT'S what I love about Indians in general. They are hard working people. It's difficult to generalize in a country of more than a billion people, but overall, people are accustomed to working hard. They are 'ok' with facing hardships as long as they get the work done. That's the general spirit.

          Lakshay is right about property prices. The real estate market has taken a hit after the recession but the prices are no where near cheap still.

          Figures like per capita income, inflation rate, price levels etc can give you a very vague and rough idea.

          As for what is good money, I feel 'good money' is just the amount of money you need to maintain YOUR preferred lifestyle.


          Sagar
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      • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
        Lakshay, I saw a travel show in England recently, it said that that Henderson, Nevada was rated as one of the top 5 places in the world to live.

        Henderson is only 15 minutes from Las Vegas. Henderson might be a good alternative to Las Vegas. I am thinking of going there myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author aceriker
    India is cheaper than Europe and America, but raising pay demands means that in the near future, any competitive advantage they have is going to be eroded by higher costs.

    Already companies are outsourcing to the Philippines, China and Malaysia because they are cheaper.

    With regards to the opening post, the average IT worker in the small / medium businesses (the ones you see on Scriptlance and eLance) will make about $200 - $800 per month.

    That's how much the guys in my company get paid, so you can't argue with that! The top project manager in our company earns around $3,500 at the age of 29.
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    And Josh!

    Why's that so?

    that breaks my heart!!

    Care to elaborate?

    -Lakshay
    I'd be happy to speak with you about it on the phone in private sometime. Just drop me a PM and I'll send you my office number.

    I was in a unique position to work with people ranging from the wealthy to the homeless in vegas every day all day for a couple years teaching them and counseling them about various aspects of their lives.

    I can offer you insight that not many people can so if you are seriously considering moving there... we can chat and I'll give you my honest opinion and share with you my experience.

    There are people who have wonderful successful lives there... but there are also things that make certain families and individuals vulnerable to the corrosive nature of living in such a city. I would not recommend any family with children to move there.

    Its not called "sin city" just because of the casinos.
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    • Profile picture of the author flnz400
      Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

      I'd be happy to speak with you about it on the phone in private sometime. Just drop me a PM and I'll send you my office number.

      I was in a unique position to work with people ranging from the wealthy to the homeless in vegas every day all day for a couple years teaching them and counseling them about various aspects of their lives.

      I can offer you insight that not many people can so if you are seriously considering moving there... we can chat and I'll give you my honest opinion and share with you my experience.

      There are people who have wonderful successful lives there... but there are also things that make certain families and individuals vulnerable to the corrosive nature of living in such a city. I would not recommend any family with children to move there.

      Its not called "sin city" just because of the casinos.
      Really? I'm curious about this, as I've only ever been there for CES. (couple days, at most.)

      Any more you can mention?
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I have a friend in Vegas, she does NOT like it.

    For a quick visit, yes. Living there? No way.

    Same thing with "Miami"....wanted to move there, but we did literally not read ONE SINGLE positive thing about living in Miami.

    My fav city in the US still Seattle...but now we go off topic
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  • Profile picture of the author bangaram12
    Hi friend i'm from india average IT professional makes just 40$ .

    even 60$ is more. Now position is really bad for IT professionals.
    Many companies are firing them from work now a days.

    So there will more drop in their earnings in future for IT professionals.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    Originally Posted by precious007 View Post

    What do apartments in India have to do with the hourly rates or the monthly salaries in India?
    Strange, I thought market place was dependant on what people are willing to spend, and the prices of realty do dictate how much people are willing to spend on their homes, offices etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by precious007 View Post

      I was speaking generally. Most IT programmers in Romania (where I actually reside) earn between $1000 and $2000 a month as employees. The ones that take freelance projects earn up to 10,000 or more.

      The apartment prices have grown in all parts of the world, however nobody buys them. The financial crisis has almost killed the real estate industry in Europe.

      I mean lets be honest...The majority in Romania barely earn $400 a month (which is exactly half of what an Indian citizen earn a year). How would they be able to pay debts when this kind of money isn't enough for a living.

      Hope you get my point
      Buddy, I do agree with you to some extent, but in India conditions are different!

      Realty has slowed down, but not that much. And here real estate companies are smart... they are increasing their advertisements ever since the market has slowed down.

      I think population over there is nothing as compared to 1.25 billion people living in India, hence the avergaes have got nothing to do with the reality here.

      -Lakshay
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      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        LOL.

        Seems like everyday, the truth about whatever is coming to the fore while myths and folklore are slowly getting crushed.

        Myths and folklores are comfortable for folks, doesn't matter whether is something is true, made up , an exception , rumor, hear-say or a one-time event, just as long as people can put others in a confined box, lock it up, throw the key away and forget about it, yeah, just tight, neat little packages.

        The box is usually a garbage can, and one can easily justify forgetting about alledged garbage.

        Do the same thing with resources, nature and the universe.

        "$2 in THEIR country is like $50 bajjillion dollars, so like, it's ok", yep, what ever floats your boat, LOL.

        Oh yeah, don't throw away any Rats or Roaches you're about to discard to the trash......

        .......... because in some countries, Rats and Roaches is like juicy, sizzling steak in their culture, an EXPENSIVE delicacy and treat, so start exporting, feed the children.

        When in Babylon , do as Babylonians do............,

        .......................where is Babylon..?...., oh yeah, thats right.........

        The 13 th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author jeewant
    I'll tell you the true story- from an Indian's perspective, who is neither from an IIT (like Lakshay) nor from an IIM.
    Yes, people from the "upper" strata of society, politicians and other "tutors" like Lakshay do make a lot of money, but most of it is at the cost of making others poorer.
    Generally, an Indian IT worker, fresh from an average college gets a starting salary of 500,000 per annum, and this is considered GOOD in most cases. Do the math, and that comes out to be around $30k/year, which is roughly $2.5k a month.
    Conduct a survey and most Indians, fresh out of college, would die to start at this wage. Yes, salaries grow as a person gets experienced, but the $150/hr salary mark still remains a distant dream for millions of IT workers. I guess Physics tutors are earning much more than the genuine engineers because tutors are a stepping stone for students to get into those IITs and IIMs that promise outrageous wages.
    For the stats, out of 400,000 students, only 4000 make it to the IITs, they get paid voraciously, while others are happy with the $2.5k/mo mark.
    Regards,
    Jeewant
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by jeewant View Post

      I'll tell you the true story- from an Indian's perspective, who is neither from an IIT (like Lakshay) nor from an IIM.
      Yes, people from the "upper" strata of society, politicians and other "tutors" like Lakshay do make a lot of money, but most of it is at the cost of making others poorer.
      Generally, an Indian IT worker, fresh from an average college gets a starting salary of 500,000 per annum, and this is considered GOOD in most cases. Do the math, and that comes out to be around $30k/year, which is roughly $2.5k a month.
      Conduct a survey and most Indians, fresh out of college, would die to start at this wage. Yes, salaries grow as a person gets experienced, but the $150/hr salary mark still remains a distant dream for millions of IT workers. I guess Physics tutors are earning much more than the genuine engineers because tutors are a stepping stone for students to get into those IITs and IIMs that promise outrageous wages.
      For the stats, out of 400,000 students, only 4000 make it to the IITs, they get paid voraciously, while others are happy with the $2.5k/mo mark.
      Regards,
      Jeewant
      Last year I taught 400 students... 301 of them are in IIT's or DCE or NIT now... I guess I am not making them poorer!

      -Lakshay
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      • Profile picture of the author jeewant
        Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

        Last year I taught 400 students... 301 of them are in IIT's or DCE or NIT now... I guess I am not making them poorer!

        -Lakshay
        Come on man, it wasn't a direct attack on you, and I guess, this is not the right time to advertise your tutoring skills. I meant, politicians and tutors in general- you might be one hellova tutor- good, keep it up!
        I wish I had found such a physics tutor when I was in my 11th class. Anyways, all I wanted to highlight was that the reality lies somewhere between what YOU are sayin and what the OP pointed out. Nothing personal
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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
        I have given up trying to figure out the economics of different countries.

        For example, the average monthly wage here in Turkey is around $600.

        A decent 3 bedroom flat in Izmir will set you back $200,000 - $300,000.

        The government's own figures say a family of 4 need $1,500 to just survive yet the minimum wage is $375.

        Except for food, Izmir is more expensive than London.

        Yet you can see abject poverty all around (if you choose to look).

        Unemployment is somewhere between 10% and 30% depending on who you believe.

        And that's a whole new can of worms. The difference between government reports and what is actually happening in the country are, let's say, interesting.

        I wonder what benefits a government trying to get foreign investment and facing elections gets from lying about the state of the economy?

        Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
      Hi lakshaybehl

      Do you think it is the "Caste" system in India that may be causing some of the confusion?

      Many of my friends, (in the hotel industry) describe the same disparity's being described in this thread, and it seems to go beyond the simple "rich and poor" divide.

      The divisions seem to be evident even within the larger cities as well.

      I'm looking beyond IT and other esteemed professions.
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi The 13th warrior,

        After trying to understand your posts, and how they could possibly relate to my quote, I can only come to the conclusion that in your opinion, (which is that there are only two kinds of people) I am a snake.

        Thanks.

        Incidentally, I'm actually a rooster.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
          edited

          I read it wrongly

          Kim

          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          Hi The 13th warrior,

          After trying to understand your posts, and how they could possibly relate to my quote, I can only come to the conclusion that in your opinion, (which is that there are only two kinds of people) I am a snake.

          Thanks.
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          • Profile picture of the author ExRat
            Hi Kim,

            You may be right, but I still can't work out what it has to do with my quote
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          • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
            Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post


            To be honest I found his first post insulting to the OP etc. If I've read it wrong, then I apologise, but I don't think I did
            I am in agreement with the OP.

            I believe people should be paid a fair wage.

            I am going to look up a career in being a cipher or code writer.

            The 13 th Warrior
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        • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


          After trying to understand your posts, and how they could possibly relate to my quote, I can only come to the conclusion that in your opinion, (which is that there are only two kinds of people) I am a snake.

          Thanks.

          Incidentally, I'm actually a rooster.
          Jesus Christ, dude, I was giving this statement below a compliment, and you don't understand it?

          Holy Wow. That's why I quoted you :

          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post


          After many years of youth where I was blind to it, I now find I learn the most from observing cultures different to my own.

          How could anyone, including me, take that as anything OTHER than a positive thing?

          I was trying to say, for the love of God, that there are people that say that and don't really mean it, and there are those , few , who truely mean it.

          Thats why I said a person that truely takes that statement you made to heart are in the few.

          Have you ever heard the saying many are called , few are chosen?

          If I am that confusing, maybe I should be a shakesphere writer.

          The 13 th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
        Originally Posted by Eric Lorence View Post

        Hi lakshaybehl

        Do you think it is the "Caste" system in India that may be causing some of the confusion?

        Many of my friends, (in the hotel industry) describe the same disparity's being described in this thread, and it seems to go beyond the simple "rich and poor" divide.

        The divisions seem to be evident even within the larger cities as well.

        I'm looking beyond IT and other esteemed professions.
        Eric!

        Caste system is not holding weaker sections back... Just FYI: IIT's and IIM's now have over 50% reservation seats for them.

        But yes, caste system is evidently very powerful here... Has always been... Not something I can't do anything about... I do not believe in it.

        -Lakshay
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    • Profile picture of the author kumar
      Originally Posted by jeewant View Post

      Do the math, and that comes out to be around $30k/year, which is roughly $2.5k a month.
      Conduct a survey and most Indians, fresh out of college, would die to start at this wage. Yes, salaries grow as a person gets experienced, but the $150/hr salary mark still remains a distant dream for millions of IT workers. I guess Physics tutors are earning much more than the genuine engineers because tutors are a stepping stone for students to get into those IITs and IIMs that promise outrageous wages.
      For the stats, out of 400,000 students, only 4000 make it to the IITs, they get paid voraciously, while others are happy with the $2.5k/mo mark.
      Regards,
      Jeewant
      Jeewant Bhai,

      $2.5K/month is a very good salary in India! I hope you are not comparing it with what US professionals make. Remember, our expenditure is in rupees and their's is in dollars . Then, there's the Purchasing Power Parity factor too (I hate Economics!)
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      • Profile picture of the author jeewant
        Originally Posted by kumar View Post

        Jeewant Bhai,

        $2.5K/month is a very good salary in India! I hope you are not comparing it with what US professionals make. Remember, our expenditure is in rupees and their's is in dollars . Then, there's the Purchasing Power Parity factor too (I hate Economics!)
        Well exactly!! Thats what I meant- 2.5k is a great salary in India, and htis figure, lies somewhere between the OP's figure and Lakshya's figure- they are talking of two ends of a long pole, with abouth a billion people lying inbetween!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      PayScale - India Salary Survey, Average Salaries in India, Wages

      Lakshay and others - is the site above anywhere near accurate?

      I agree with Josh about Vegas. Several of my friends in the casino industry moved there after Katrina put some of our casinos out of business - the only one who liked it and stayed in Vegas was someone who grew up there. Several moved their families there with the intention of staying - but moved to different cities after less than a year.

      Vegas can be a fun place but if I were looking for a family home with a view to quality of life, it wouldn't be at the top of my list.

      kay
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      • Profile picture of the author kumar
        Hi Kay,

        I think it's a fairly accurate chart describing what Indian IT professionals are making at the moment in India.
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        • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
          Originally Posted by kumar View Post

          Hi Kay,

          I think it's a fairly accurate chart describing what Indian IT professionals are making at the moment in India.
          That's interesting. The hourly prices I've seen quoted on senior C# and ASP.NET developers is only 10-15% lower than the price for a US developer. Somebody is making some money somewhere and I'd guess it isn't the developers themselves if those figures are accurate.
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          • Profile picture of the author Srikanth D
            Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

            That's interesting. The hourly prices I've seen quoted on senior C# and ASP.NET developers is only 10-15% lower than the price for a US developer. Somebody is making some money somewhere and I'd guess it isn't the developers themselves if those figures are accurate.
            As I already mentioned, my company bills my client $20 per hour for my service but I get paid $25 per day. Thats how it is..
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      • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        PayScale - India Salary Survey, Average Salaries in India, Wages

        Lakshay and others - is the site above anywhere near accurate?

        I agree with Josh about Vegas. Several of my friends in the casino industry moved there after Katrina put some of our casinos out of business - the only one who liked it and stayed in Vegas was someone who grew up there. Several moved their families there with the intention of staying - but moved to different cities after less than a year.

        Vegas can be a fun place but if I were looking for a family home with a view to quality of life, it wouldn't be at the top of my list.

        kay
        Kay!

        That is to an extent true.. Just remember again. Experts are not averages. Hardwork+Skill=Expertise. And there's a ton of that for Indians. I am sure many IT people are making $500/month, and many others making $5K/month to begin with. Basically it depends upon them, pretty much like all other places ion the world. Its a VERY fair system... rewards the workers, punishes the lazy! Hope you understand!

        Thanks for your advice regarding Vegas! I will have to re-think now!

        Originally Posted by BlueSquares View Post

        Best thing I've read all day. I'm so glad you're helping out.
        Hey Buddy, Thanks!

        -Lakshay
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    • Profile picture of the author jmidas
      Why is it that we care about this? Is someone here suggesting that because you live in a certain place you are not entitled to earn whatever you can? People earn what they earn and it is not your or my business.

      It is simple: no matter where you are in the world, if you are smart, capable, and driven, you can earn as much as you desire. If you're lazy, ignorant or just plain dumb, you will earn what you deserve. True in the US, UK, India or anywhere else.
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    • Profile picture of the author ltdraper
      Originally Posted by jeewant View Post

      Generally, an Indian IT worker, fresh from an average college gets a starting salary of 500,000 per annum, and this is considered GOOD in most cases. Do the math, and that comes out to be around $30k/year, which is roughly $2.5k a month.
      Sorry, but I have to call you out on that. Freshers make nowhere near $30K/year. Not even remotely close. More like $3K/year.

      Anyone confused by the conversion can just try the google query 500000 INR in USD.

      I have worked for a major MNC in Bangalore and Mumbai, and I can tell you that it is only the very senior people in the $30K range. There have been heavy layoffs in the tech centers lately and many fear for their jobs. The rampant wage inflation we saw in the last few years has stopped. People are satisfied to keep their jobs without raises and are no longer job hopping.

      I've had engineers making $12K/yr and they're living the vida loca. It's the same lifestyle as making $120K/yr in the US.

      I love India and have spent a lot of time over there, but anyone saying their wages are roughly comparable to the US is smoking something. There's a reason companies lay off American workers to outsource to India -- the differential is 10-1 in pay and cost of living.

      If you're looking for highly skilled work then yes you'll be paying a more in the $30K-50K USD range, but that's only for the very upper end. The kinds of tasks you should be outsourcing to India shouldn't require that type of skill, because the communication/culture/time zone differences will almost always make it more sensible to hire locally, unless you're doing something really huge and can afford several million dollars to set up the infrastructure and management chain.
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  • Profile picture of the author visit_faraz
    This thread seems to be taking a different direction.

    Lets just wait and watch.
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  • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
    I've been in IT for about 8 years before full time IM... i think he'z talking about $1500/day..... thats not uncommon...
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  • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
    I second that..... 3K/month is very common..... 4.5K would typically be for a senior developer/proj manager....
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  • Profile picture of the author Raja Sekharan
    The idea that someone makes $800 per month so they are poor is flawed. IT professionals in India are not working in India and spending that $800 in US. I will soon be an IT professional. I will be making $800-$900 a month as a freshman. That is the average salary of an entry level IT professional who will be doing OUTSOURCED WORK.

    The concept of FAIR WAGE - As an employer Paying someone $800-$900 a month in India is very FAIR.

    There are many other companies in India too - Microsoft, Nokia, Sun, Google, Intel, Bank of America all of who recruit IT professionals also. In those "non-outsourced work" IT companies the salary varies from $12,000-$22,500 a year. They may not be as good as what an IT professional makes in the US or in the UK. But that is one of the key reasons why these companies are even here in India. Lower costs. These IT Professionals are "RICH" in their own way in India.

    Lakshay,

    As much as your nationalistic heart wants to see a country full of millionaires, the truth is very much to the contrary. Have you ever taking a bus ride to a rural area? I didn't think so. I am not pointing out the poverty. But the standard of living is lesser than what we see in urban India. Heck, I've been in Metropolitan cities all my life and I don't think I can afford the rents that I will soon have to pay in Bangalore or Hyderabad. My one months' salary is about ALL THE MONEY most farmers will ever see in a year in India.

    Cost of real estate is not at all an Indication of how much an IT professional makes in India. Nor is how many students you put in the IITs or NITs or in DCE.

    On a side note Lakshay, some humility will prove useful. This is an Internet Marketing forum. A better way for this thread to have moved is

    "How does it affect the average internet marketer?"

    Does it mean India is becoming less or a low cost IT destination? Will it cost more to hire programmers from India? Are you going to find programmers in china? Do programmers there cost lesser than in India?

    Instead, the tread went from IT professionals to real estate prices to how much a farmer in Jalandpur makes in a day.

    On a side note, could you present some stats of your 82% conversion rate you had mentioned in an earlier thread please - just post the URL of the site so we can all learn from it? The one which was used to promote your coaching service. For someone with that many coaching students on your hands, you sure spend awful long time posting here and working on your websites. Please, share your secrets with us, perhaps in a new thread?

    Thank you
    Raja Sekharan
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  • Profile picture of the author yourreviewer
    As Lakshya rightly said, "We are all more similar than we think we are" I was just reading the reactions to the Slumdog Billionaire in India. Interestingly one of the Indian top actors felt it only propogated the myth of India as a poverty stricken country and emphasized that it did not potray the accurate picture of India. Interesting indeed......
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  • Profile picture of the author Raja Sekharan
    For the unknowing - More than HALF of Mumbai is a SLUM. The Financial and Entertainment capital of India.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    There are people in certain areas of India that make very good money. Those are the "hot spots".

    The problem is, India has a very heavily weighted scale of people that go from VERY poor to VERY rich, and the majority of the population is at the lower end of the scale, and $8 a day does look good to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    India is the second most populated country in the world, proyected to be the most populated in a few years. It also has an amazing economic growth rate.

    While it's true that people with no degree get payed miserably, professionals are making a killing there.

    All those statistics measure things like the GDP per capita, and with that volume in population it means they are pretty far off.

    If I were to do any FDI, India is definitely one of my top choices.
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    • Profile picture of the author kumar
      Originally Posted by Daniel Molano View Post

      India is the second most populated country in the world, proyected to be the most populated in a few years. It also has an amazing economic growth rate.

      While it's true that people with no degree get payed miserably, professionals are making a killing there.

      All those statistics measure things like the GDP per capita, and with that volume in population it means they are pretty far off.

      If I were to do any FDI, India is definitely one of my top choices.
      Daniel,

      Great points but you missed one thing which helps India to be projected as the second biggest economy after China by the year 2050. A large population could be a huge liability too but what is working in our case is that a huge chunk of our people are and would be in the employable age group of 25-33 years.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    NEWS: I just went to IIT to get some stats! I specifically went back for this.

    I saw the placements this year... Average IT Trainee @ Rs. 8 Lac/Annum Domestic!

    Top Domestic Trainee Salary: Rs. 22 Lac/year (Same Package went to 9 people)

    Top International Trainee Salary: Rs. 60Lac/year.

    Average Intl trainee Salary: Rs. Rs. 36 Lac/year.

    1 lac = Rs. 100,000

    And I sincerely hope we are talking about professionals here... Not people living in slums. For those people do not have to be the ones who are IT professionals (I might be totally ignorant, but I am sure IT professionals are not living in the slums... ever)

    -Lakshay

    P.S. I delibrately chose not to answer some posts... I am not selling anything here (if you know what I mean. There have been personal attacks on me which I don't appreciate in the least but I chose not to respond to them. Because fights are like claps... You need TWO hands for them, and rest assure mine is not going to be one of them... EVER. Nor am I giong to defend myself... whose the judge here anyway?).

    For any non-Indian the best way to find what the prices of common articles and commodities are in New Delhi and Mumbai, you are most welcome to visit us here and find out for yourself. I spend anywhere between $50-$250 on my shirts at Lifestyle.. You should expect to pay the same unless you are walking in with a gun.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    I think over 75% of the Indian population is under 35 years of age... Heard that off some news channel just yesterday!
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    • Profile picture of the author kumar
      Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

      I think over 75% of the Indian population is under 35 years of age... Heard that off some news channel just yesterday!
      Could be a hindi news channel? All they do is sensationalize events. The last time I watched hindi news, they were predicting that aliens could invade us anytime..and showed clippings of 'Independence Day' to make it real
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      • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
        Originally Posted by kumar View Post

        Could be a hindi news channel? All they do is sensationalize events. The last time I watched hindi news, they were predicting that aliens could invade us anytime..and showed clippings of 'Independence Day' to make it real
        Yeah...

        But this is actually probably true... The population surge has taken pretty much in the last few decades!

        So this should techincally be true (Graphically too ) Methinks

        -Lakshay
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    Hey, I'm from Detroit... I'd call that the slums... LOL... but that certainly doesn't mean I can't work as good or better than anyone else.

    Sure IT outsourcing *usually* requires an education, so the poor are at a disadvantage for that. However, there are other outsourcing tasks that those 800 million can do quite well and happily for $8 a day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Puusep
    I was in India one month ago for a vacation. People earn differently depending of the work of course. But the houses are really cheap, because they are easy to build. My friend bought a three story house near to beach with 30 grand usd. This is pretty cheap place to live.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gunter Eibl
    Quality has its price, no matter where it is. You can get good hard working people for $2 per hour doing some data entry jobs or other basic online jobs. You won't get a good programmer for that price or other skilled people. But it's still amazing for how little you can get really good work done.

    Gunter
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  • Profile picture of the author rlnorthcutt
    I have a "mentee" in India that is a 19 year old student. As a young single male, he says he needs about $500 US to live a comfortable life... as a student working part time.

    He lives in a smallish place with several roommates, so its reasonable.

    For those who are looking to outsource to India because its so cheap, I suggest that you remember that you get what you pay for. You can get comperable quality for less, but you need to be careful about what you are doing and who you work with.

    Also - there is no need to be greedy and try to get something for nothing. I outsource development work all the time, but I always pay well. It not only is ethical, but it ensures that you get some loyalty and attention!

    Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author MCVS
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      I had the pleasure of spending 3 months in Goa and a week in Mumbai. After talking to a few IT people in Goa, Lakshay is pretty much correct with his numbers.

      Edited: I also remember reading that India was not the go to country for IT outsourcing any longer. I don't remember what country replaced them.


      BTW Lakshay, I didn't see any personal attacks on you.
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      • Profile picture of the author kumar
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        I had the pleasure of spending 3 months in Goa and a week in Mumbai.

        Edited: I also remember reading that India was not the go to country for IT outsourcing any longer. I don't remember what country replaced them.

        Thomas,

        We definitely are losing out as far as companies looking for cheap IT outsourcing is concerned, what with rising labor costs, realty space and a few other factors. However, it still is among the top destinations for high profile projects. Case in point: The FIFA has awarded all its software related activities for the next two world cups to an Indian company. The major Indian IT companies are competing with the IBMs and EDSs of the world to bid for big ticket projects everywhere.

        Slightly OT, many people tend to believe that outsourcing is just about cutting costs. It is, but it also about looking for a skill set which the buyer could not find in his own backyard (company, country etc.).

        By the way, while you were in Mumbai, you could have tried for a role in some Bollywood movies. Looking at your mugshot, you could have easily landed yourself a slick, suave greyish character. You do have the looks!
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Originally Posted by kumar View Post

          Thomas,

          By the way, while you were in Mumbai, you could have tried for a role in some Bollywood movies. Looking at your mugshot, you could have easily landed yourself a slick, suave greyish character. You do have the looks!
          Hi Kumar,

          Funny thing was we got asked to be in a Bollywood movie. We just didn't have the time since we were only there for a few more days. I think it had to do with my beautiful wife more. hehe My wife loves the Bollywood movies.
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          • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            Hi Kumar,

            Funny thing was we got asked to be in a Bollywood movie. We just didn't have the time since we were only there for a few more days. I think it had to do with my beautiful wife more. hehe My wife loves the Bollywood movies.
            I'd love to see you both in a Bolly movie... Seriously!

            Look Thomas buddy, next time you come to India, please do visit New Delhi... We'll have an awesome time here, I promise!

            -Lakshay

            P.S. Regarding the personal attack, I don't know whether the post has been edited or removed now, but it was quite subtle and beyond the scope of understanding for most people who do not know much about the educational system in India!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
    I've been to Delhi and the area about 8 times in the last 12 years.
    I am not a tourist and only go there for a specific event. It has
    made quite an impression on me.

    I saw a Discovery channel type of program that mentioned just
    because India had the zero, their math was almost infinitely
    superior to the west. We have what are called the Arabian
    numerals but they only came to us from Arabia. Arabia got them
    from India.

    I can't remember the exact figures, but the program said that they
    knew the earth was round and had its diameter calculated to within
    1% about 2000 BC. You certainly do not hear about that in the
    Canadian and US schools. I'm pretty sure that would be a 50 year
    project for me even today.

    I mentioned to someone I knew about 25 years ago "Boy, India is
    really starting to boom." Told him Mercedes was building a plant
    there and another thing or 2, and both he and his wife completely
    thought that was ridiculous. I'm not in touch with him anymore but
    it was interesting to see the Tata buyout of Jaguar hit the news
    big time.

    So it is quite an impressive civilization to me, especially with their
    latest production, Prem Rawat. He has been my favorite speaker
    for more than 30 years. I'll just throw in a short quote from him
    that fits into the spirit of the forum. He doesn't believe the idea
    that karma from your last lifetime affects you now.

    He said that when he goes back to India he is sometimes told "of
    course karma rules. Why do you think one person is born into a
    rich family and another is born into a poor family?"

    A part of his answer last time was "When someone is born into a
    rich family, that person has the potential to make the whole family
    poor. When someone is born into a poor family, that person has
    the potential to make the whole family rich."

    I do have more than 30 pages of short quotes from him that are as
    impressive to me, but certainly wouldn't be to everyone. He does
    have 3 sites that are probably easily googleable.

    He thoroughly enjoys technology and put the sites together himself.
    One is a cold fusion site and that site was actually the reason I got
    my first computer and got online. All the material on the sites comes
    from his talks and he also wrote the background music for the one
    that has it. (He has written a couple of cds of music, but
    unfortunately they are not available for purchase.)

    He talks about 200 times a year and all of his talks are completely
    different, and none of them are prepared in advance. I told that to
    the same guy I mentioned before and he flat out did not believe it.
    He mentioned about 5 times in the next couple of months that "of
    course he prepares his talks in advance."

    I put on a dvd of one of his talks and about 5 minutes into it he
    said "wow, this is just completely off the cuff." It is hard to explain.
    He is not trying to wing it and come up with stuff on stage. I have
    a talk that he gave to a UN assembly in Bangkok. I have probably
    watched it 6 times over at least that many years and have
    enjoyed it each time. It is probably the only talk ever given there
    that I would listen to completely without being physically
    restrained.

    So, practically a boundless respect for India.

    best wishes, lloyd
    .......__o
    .......\<,
    ....( )/ ( )...
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski View Post

      I saw a Discovery channel type of program that mentioned just
      because India had the zero, their math was almost infinitely
      superior to the west. We have what are called the Arabian
      numerals but they only came to us from Arabia. Arabia got them
      from India.

      I can't remember the exact figures, but the program said that they
      knew the earth was round and had its diameter calculated to within
      1% about 2000 BC. You certainly do not hear about that in the
      Canadian and US schools. I'm pretty sure that would be a 50 year
      project for me even today.
      The numbers used in HISTORIC indian texts, such as in sanscrit, look VERY different from arabic numbers. SURE, some loke similar, even though they don't mean the same, but they ae DIFFERENT! Besides, who knows WHAT the origin really is. Heck, "pundit" and "thug" are indian words!

      As for the earth, you would logically need a number of points to even have an educated guess, and we don't know where they got what, so WHO KNOWS!?!?!?

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author ildarius
        Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski View Post

        I can't remember the exact figures, but the program said that they knew the earth was round and had its diameter calculated to within
        1% about 2000 BC. You certainly do not hear about that in the
        Canadian and US schools. I'm pretty sure that would be a 50 year
        project for me even today.
        I'm no scholar, but wasn't Canada and U.S colonized tidbit later than 2000 BC?

        Like 3500 years later

        In anycase shouldn't we be discussing average salaries here? Nobody is trying to offend India in this thread, we're just trying to find out what an average salary is over there... How much should one expect to pay for someone who can perform internet marketing tasks.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by ildarius View Post

          I'm no scholar, but wasn't Canada and U.S colonized tidbit later than 2000 BC?

          Like 3500 years later

          In anycase shouldn't we be discussing average salaries here? Nobody is trying to offend India in this thread, we're just trying to find out what an average salary is over there... How much should one expect to pay for someone who can perform internet marketing tasks.
          REGARDLESS, PLEASE don't show me as having made a quote I didn't, let alone one such as that.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author ildarius
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            REGARDLESS, PLEASE don't show me as having made a quote I didn't, let alone one such as that.

            Steve
            ooooops... my bad, fixed it
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    • Profile picture of the author MRomeo09
      I hate to directly contradict people. But, I had a position where I worked with a Dow Jones company to be the go between for all of our programming outsourcing. I found rates nowhere near what Lakshay is saying. I'm not saying that there weren't providers who did charge high rates, but they were never even considered. I literally spoke to over 1,000 companies, and travelled to India a few times. Typically the hourly rate for programmers was between $10-30/hr, while here in the states it was $30-50/hr. Remember this was for a Dow Jones company, a multinational with over 400,000 employees nationwide. These weren't uneducated Indians, we required them to have a degree to even be considered. Generally most companies make the decision to outsource when the rates are at least half of what they would be here in America, otherwise most companies choose not to deal with the difficulties of language barriers, hours, etc.

      I think the problem is you can't take a personal story as a generality that can be applied across an entire nation. If an Indian were to hear about Donald Trump's lifestyle does that make it in anyway indicative of what life is like for the average american? Or how about Bill Gates is that a normal lifestyle for a programmer? And that's my point, maybe Lakshay is living the high life in India but that doesn't mean that everyone else is.

      And if you think that things are going to be peachy and better in India while the US goes down the crapper, it's not really working out that way. Like other people have mentioned, lots of companies are moving their outsourcing to cheaper destinations like Eastern Europe, The Phillipines, Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. As well there have been tons of news reports about outsourced jobs being the first to go when the economy went south. Given the choice between laying off Sally down the hall, and laying off someone who most Americans are too ignorant to pronounce their name all the way across the globe, the Indian is losing. There have been lots of reports of this lately if you subscribe to the journals.

      Anyway, be careful extrapolating an entire nation of Billions experience to the word of an anonymous poster on a message board.

      M
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Burton
    I'm not trying to fuel any fires here, and I realize that what I am about to quote are largely statistical estimates and/or averages. But these figures come from what is normally considered a reliable source.

    The source for these figures is https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...s/in.html#Econ

    India (according to above listed source)

    GDP - per capita (PPP): $2,900 (2008 est.)

    GDP - composition by sector:
    - agriculture: 17.2%
    - industry: 29.1%
    - services: 53.7% (2008 est.)

    Labor force: 523.5 million (2008 est.)
    Labor force - by occupation:
    - agriculture: 60%
    - industry: 12%
    - services: 28% (2003)

    Unemployment rate: 6.8% (2008 est.)

    Revenues: $153.5 billion
    expenditures: $205.3 billion (2008 est.)
    While some of this information may have been touched on, I find it interesting that several of out Indian counterparts are arguing that the daily wage they see is 5 to 30 times (or more) what this thread qas questioning, and yet the figures that the rest of the world sees put the estimated GDP per capita for last year at about $8 a day.

    For reference I'm including some of the information available forthe USA as a comparison.
    From https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...s/us.html#Econ (i.e. same source)
    GDP - per capita (PPP):
    $48,000 (2008 est.)

    GDP - composition by sector:
    - agriculture: 1.2%
    - industry: 19.6%
    - services: 79.2% (2008 est.)

    Labor force: 155.2 million (includes unemployed) (2008 est.)
    I'd just like to know how these conflicting numbers come together. I know an experienced person can manipulate statistics to make them say what they want, but I'm going on the presumption here that none of us (Indian, American, Romanian, Etc) are trying to manipulate these numbers, just establish a better understanding of the reality of the situation.

    I also just ran a quick search for real estate in India, and came across the following:
    http://www.99acres.com/K1445220
    Which is an Independent Bunglow with a 2200 sq. yards plot size & built-up area-4400 sq.ft with swimming pool, 6 bedrooms. While yes this is 2200000000 Indian Rupees, or 44,918,200 USD, this is a 4400 sq ft building, in Delhi, with 2200 sq yards of total land (for reference this is approximately 0.45 acres in typical US measurement.
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    • Profile picture of the author kumar
      @Scott and MRomeo,

      The figures of the CIA look fairly accurate to me. And that just accentuates my point when I mentioned that there is a huge disparity in the income levels of Indians. Throw in a billion people and factor in the fact that a lot of people are still living below poverty line and you would probably understand the contradiction.

      What Lakshay quoted were mainly figures from IITs and IIMs (the premier-most engineering and management schools of India); the best consulting and investment banking firms such as McKinsey and Goldman Sachs recruit from these institutes for international placements. If you look at the stats quoted by Kay King in an earlier post, they are a very fair indication of the compensation package of an average Indian IT professional in India.

      So if you are looking at $8 a day from the perspective of outsourcing, you won't get many takers.
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  • I know $8 a day is good money for people in India when I get countless emails from my article writers saying it is.

    I know $8 a day is good money for people in India when I upgrade better writers from $3 an article to $5 an article, and the response is ecstatic and overflowing with joy.

    I know $8 a day is good money for people in India when I drop a writer for poor skills and I'm told the family won't eat or the rent won't get paid and I can tell damn sure it's sincere.

    You can argue numbers all day long, but for a wide variety of people living in India, the $8-$15 a day mark seems to be more than enough to survive on, and is often "good" money.

    Many people in the united states live on less than $20,000 a year, and consider it good money. Why? Because they might have a car, they might have a home, but at the end of the day the money allows them to do what they want with their lives, and it makes them happy.

    Other people need $500,000+ a year, need a jaguar, need a ritzy condo somewhere, need investment portfolios.

    Back in highschool when all I wanted to do was skateboard and chase girls, working at BestBuy gave me a dream life. No one could understand why I was so damn happy with $150 a week. It paid my rent, put shoes on my feet, and put those shoes on a skateboard. Bliss.

    If what you do brings you enough money to live the life you need, then you are making "good money".
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    • Profile picture of the author kumar
      Originally Posted by Christopher R Everson View Post

      I know $8 a day is good money for people in India when I get countless emails from my article writers saying it is.

      I know $8 a day is good money for people in India when I upgrade better writers from $3 an article to $5 an article, and the response is ecstatic and overflowing with joy.

      I know $8 a day is good money for people in India when I drop a writer for poor skills and I'm told the family won't eat or the rent won't get paid and I can tell damn sure it's sincere.

      You can argue numbers all day long, but for a wide variety of people living in India, the $8-$15 a day mark seems to be more than enough to survive on, and is often "good" money.

      Many people in the united states live on less than $20,000 a year, and consider it good money. Why? Because they might have a car, they might have a home, but at the end of the day the money allows them to do what they want with their lives, and it makes them happy.

      Other people need $500,000+ a year, need a jaguar, need a ritzy condo somewhere, need investment portfolios.

      Back in highschool when all I wanted to do was skateboard and chase girls, working at BestBuy gave me a dream life. No one could understand why I was so damn happy with $150 a week. It paid my rent, put shoes on my feet, and put those shoes on a skateboard. Bliss.

      If what you do brings you enough money to live the life you need, then you are making "good money".
      Chris,

      Perfectly agree with the last part of your post. But when you say, "I know $8 a day is good money for people in India when I upgrade better writers from $3 an article to $5 an article, and the response is ecstatic and overflowing with joy." I am slightly confused: do you mean to say they only write two articles a day (and do nothing else) and are happy at $8 a day? If they are, they must be damn lazy!
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  • Profile picture of the author JVManna
    From my experience, a typical hire out of India costs $13,000 annually, including benefits.
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  • That's just what it averages out to be, I don't my writers constantly working. If I have the demand they'll write as much as they have time for, otherwise its only 15-20 articles a week.

    So, for just working with me, they have a week to accomplish this task, and easily 95% of anyone from India I've ever used was done same day or next day when I give out requests. Something I don't often see anywhere else.

    I also used to attend RIT, Rochester Institute of Technology (which also has a campus in india, I believe in Dubai?), has many Indian students (most of which are NOT IT related from my experience, often medical or bio related, sometimes math), and have talked to several one on one.

    I was informed that for a majority of indians, $10-15 USD daily would be enough to live off of, and depending on the area and situation, would even be a comfortable life.

    I think that India has such an explosive economy that it varies so much, it's hard to quantify everything with a set number, or a set percentage.

    My main point is, at least for the people I've worked with, $8 a day can be suitable to live off of, and given internet access, even for brief periods of time, is obtainable by anyone with a fair education.

    How many have access to those things, well, I don't know.
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    • Profile picture of the author kumar
      Chris,

      Dubai is in UAE, not India! But your friends were right. Depending upon their literacy levels, some people could easily live off $8-$15 a day. But that doesn't hold good for the educated folk here. Of course you could get someone on $1/hour, but such people would always be in the minority.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobmcalister
    it is interesting to se how disparate the classes are ...but the same is getting more and more true in america everyday . I think what the OP is saying is that you get what you pay for ...even in India.

    the class thing I have found to exist in america as well ..particularily in the high high income people...they seem to do business with each other without regard for the 'price'..how else could someone get bilked out of millions froms some ponzi scheme?

    having grown up around a bunch of Jewish merchants I can tell you , that while they are bargainers extrodanaire (sp) they are hard working and 'trade within their own circle when they can '

    sounds like that is in India also

    I would llike to visit some day ...I saw the tv show about India history and the basis for math , as we know it, originated there...according to discovery . and with math come architecture, buildings, edcuation etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author saysanta
    unlike nigeria where $8 a day is a big money.
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  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    For some reason, the Indians really worship their rich like the Ambania amd Mittals. No matter that they throw the most expensive, obstentatious and vulgar parties of all time. It seems that they get a lot of kick by burning tonnes of money in front of really poor people. Like many others in China and Russia, the well off would just like to forget about the poor altogether.

    I was in Mumbai several years back when our plane broke down during the stopover. I stayed in the Taj Mahal for a couple of days courtesy of British airways. Of course, Mumbai is very interesting city but the disparaties in wealth was extremely distressing and depressing to all of us who were there. I just can't how Indians can be really proud of this, especially how their rich behaves.
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    • Profile picture of the author kumar
      Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

      For some reason, the Indians really worship their rich like the Ambania amd Mittals. No matter that they throw the most expensive, obstentatious and vulgar parties of all time. It seems that they get a lot of kick by burning tonnes of money in front of really poor people. Like many others in China and Russia, the well off would just like to forget about the poor altogether.

      I was in Mumbai several years back when our plane broke down during the stopover. I stayed in the Taj Mahal for a couple of days courtesy of British airways. Of course, Mumbai is very interesting city but the disparaties in wealth was extremely distressing and depressing to all of us who were there. I just can't how Indians can be really proud of this, especially how their rich behaves.
      Derek,

      I, for one, am indifferent towards how the rich show their wealth here. It's their hard earned (or inherited) money and I am not bothered. Having said that, I agree, we live in a society and should be more sensitive.

      One more thing, which you might have noticed in your region too: It's only their lifestyles which is covered by the media. Most of the rich and mighty also pledge a lot for social causes, but since it doesn't make for a good page 3 copy, it is generally ignored. The Tatas and Ambanis have also built and are managing whole townships where they set up their units but it almost never comes out in the open. You don't expect everyone to live frugally like Warren Buffet...do you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Top Deal
    well that not for everyone. some people can make it and some can't
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  • Profile picture of the author Rohit Shah
    Average Indian IT worker makes $10-25 per hour.
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  • Profile picture of the author Elaina
    This comment is meant to offend anyone. But from everything that I heard, no one wants to outsource to India these days. Again, only going from what I've heard, there has been a lot of dishonest conduct in business, perhaps even just a communication mishap of sorts. Any news or input for this?
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  • Profile picture of the author Alibaba
    I ran a 15 person call center in India back in 2003 and at that time I hired couple of a web designer/programers for Rs.10,000/mo or about $250/mo that had about 2 yrs experience.

    If I was to go now, I know I would pay 20,000-30,000/mo for QUALITY programers NOT from IIT or anyting but still good solid experience.

    Elaina, as far as dishonesty is concernd its everywhere but compared to US - India still has a lot to learn they play with hundrends and thousands - Long ways from BILLIONS the 'honest US' corporations have siphoned.
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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Kieren
    Hmmm... this is a very interesting topic. My views on wages is starting to change.
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  • Profile picture of the author tylergreen
    I think people over generalize too much when it comes to third world developing countries. Or at least the countries people outsource to.

    Just because you can find someone to pay a little $5 bucks / hour to do a task doesn't mean the whole population is dirt poor.

    Just like in any society there will always be the rich and the poor. But in countries like maybe the US and Canada, the divide isn't as distinct as in poorer countries. But there will always be rich and poor in any society.

    My suggestion is always for people to check out the places they outsource to. It's really an eye opener and I'm sure you'll learn a lot from just seeing different cultures. : )
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  • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
    Palitra - If you've ever been to India, It's probably a couple of decades ago...
    The most "shady" hotels cost $20... and you wouldn't want to stay there...
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  • Profile picture of the author ebooksmaster
    I admit i haven't read the whole thread,But
    I am working as a software Engineer in India
    and my monthly income is 900$.

    My managers make around 1900$ per month.
    Nowhere near the figures mentioned here.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    India is a big place.

    Some places have good pay. Some places don't.

    Come out here to Washington state. Get a job in Bellevue, and you can make $80 an hour in IT. Drive two hours south to Castle Rock, and you can't... you'll be lucky to make $25 an hour. Drive another two hours south to Portland, Oregon, and you can get $60 an hour. Two hours more to Lebanon, Oregon... and they don't know what IT is.

    India's plenty big enough to have the same kind of disparity from region to region. Hell, how many dialects do they have, again?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      India is a big place.

      Some places have good pay. Some places don't.

      Come out here to Washington state. Get a job in Bellevue, and you can make $80 an hour in IT. Drive two hours south to Castle Rock, and you can't... you'll be lucky to make $25 an hour. Drive another two hours south to Portland, Oregon, and you can get $60 an hour. Two hours more to Lebanon, Oregon... and they don't know what IT is.

      India's plenty big enough to have the same kind of disparity from region to region. Hell, how many dialects do they have, again?
      I think they generally really only have ONE dialect!

      1 of hindi
      1 of telegu
      1 of Kannada

      etc....

      HERE are the ones wikipedia lists:

      Assamese/Axomiya Indo-Aryan, Eastern 13 Assam
      Bengali Indo-Aryan, Eastern 83 West Bengal, Assam, Jharkhand, Tripura (list)
      Bodo Tibeto-Burman 1.2 Assam
      Dogri Indo-Aryan, Northern 0.1 Jammu and Kashmir
      Gujarati Indo-Aryan, Western 46 Gujarat, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu (list)
      Hindi Indo-Aryan, various 422 the "Hindi belt", Northern India
      Kannada Dravidian, Southern 38 Karnataka, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu, Goa (list)
      Kashmiri Dardic 5.5 Jammu and Kashmir
      Konkani Indo-Aryan, Southern 2.5 Konkan (Goa, Karnataka, Maharashtra, Kerala)
      Maithili Indo-Aryan, Eastern 12 Bihar
      Malayalam Dravidian, Southern 33 Kerala, Lakshadweep, Mahé, Puducherry
      Manipuri (also Meitei or Meithei) Tibeto-Burman 1.5 Manipur
      Marathi Indo-Aryan, Southern 72 Maharashtra, Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh, Goa (list)
      Nepali Indo-Aryan, Northern 2.5 Sikkim, West Bengal, Assam
      Oriya Indo-Aryan, Eastern 33 Orissa
      Punjabi Indo-Aryan 29 Punjab, Chandigarh, Delhi, Haryana
      Sanskrit Indo-Aryan 0.05 Mattur
      Santali Munda 6.5 Santal tribals of the Chota Nagpur Plateau (comprising the states of Bihar, Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, Orissa)
      Sindhi Indo-Aryan, Northwestern 2.5 Gujarat, Maharashtra, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh (list
      Tamil Dravidian, Southern 61 Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Pondicherry, Andhra Pradesh, Kerala, Maharashtra (list)
      Telugu Dravidian, South-Central 74 Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Maharashtra, Orissa (list)
      Urdu


      Of course, there are well over 2 dozen recognized languages, so even THAT is a partial list.

      But MAN, I have heard that SOME places are VERY VERY poor! Like ethiopia is, and others are RICH, like beverly hills. But that doesn't mean the living standards are that great.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        I think they generally really only have ONE dialect!
        I've worked with a lot of Indians. It's not uncommon for people who grew up less than 20 miles apart to speak mutually unintelligible dialects - so they can only communicate in English.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
    MNC's like Oracle.... many smaller also easily pay that much.... from personal exp...
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  • Profile picture of the author ebooksmaster
    Guys...Remember the OP said the 'Average' IT people in india earn that money.
    Not the ones from 'Oracle' and 'Google'or the Tata and Birla.
    There may be exceptions.Don't site them examples.

    I consider myself a 'Average' IT person and i know for sure that the salary is
    at most 1000$ per month.Not more.

    Let's just not 'Accept' that we earn more just for Pride.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    Originally Posted by ildarius View Post

    I said that to someone who was calling my IT department from India.

    He "LOLed" for a bit and then said: "8$ a day here is nothing, that's like 300 rupees"

    He said that an average IT worker makes 150$
    Sure, they make 150 a day if they work about 18 hours. The average IT pay over there is around 10-12 an hour and thats for a guy with education that would get him about 70k a year in the states.

    I work for a large computer company that has some of our IT outsourced. What would get you about 15-16 an hour here, gets you about half that over there. Common sense tells you that if they were getting paid as much as U.S. it people, then u.s. it companies would be rushing to outsource to india..what would be the point.
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  • Profile picture of the author lisag
    1 Indian rupee = 0.0129953946 British pounds
    1 Indian rupee = 0.014198001 Euros
    1 Indian rupee = 0.161834345 Hong Kong dollars
    1 Indian rupee = 1.89304813 Japanese yen
    1 Indian rupee = 0.278896485 Mexican pesos
    1 Indian rupee = 0.076695916 United Arab Emirates dirhams
    1 Indian rupee = 0.0240343002 Australian dollars
    1 Indian rupee = 0.0226704956
    1 Indian rupee = 24.9474313 South Korean won
    1 Indian rupee = 0.142558697 Chinese yuan
    Signature

    -- Lisa G

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    • Profile picture of the author lisag
      Originally Posted by lisag View Post

      1 Indian rupee = 0.0129953946 British pounds
      1 Indian rupee = 1.89304813 Japanese yen
      1 Indian rupee = 24.9474313 South Korean won
      Looks like Japan and South Korea are where Indians should retire to.
      Signature

      -- Lisa G

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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        I dont know what they make.
        I will say after dealing with my x hosting companies support after it was out sourced to India and the bank that holds my mortgage collection and IT department in India, whatever it is it's to much.
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        Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
        Getting old ain't for sissy's
        As you are I was, as I am you will be
        You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by lisag View Post

        Looks like Japan and South Korea are where Indians should retire to.

        The value of currency means NOTHING there. In Japan, the prices are just FAR higher! South korea is probably the same.

        It is like Denmark where the prices looked REAL high when I was there. A candybar might say 3.50, for example, but that was only about $.50! It's called INFLATION! Inflate prices to make up for the lack of value in the currency.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author madison_avenue
    Thanks Lisa. Wow, I didn't realize the pound's really gone down.
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  • Profile picture of the author rajuthan
    One of my writers said $300 USD a month is more than enough for a good life in Chennai, India
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  • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
    Motley: Are you calling India a trash heap? Appreciate an answer.....
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
    No, i'm saying that there are some places in india where you may find a decent job for india, but sanitation is less than adequate, and even with a great job, that small issue makes the pay not worth it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Motley
        Originally Posted by Prashaant View Post

        but u said... "living on a trash heap" - what did that mean?
        it was just an 'illustration'..not directed at india in particular.

        the u.s. has a lot of run down areas, but for the most part sanitation isn't really and issue. here its more crime.

        for instance in detroit mi, crime is pretty bad, lots of unemployment, but you can buy a very large, nice house in that area. thats, great, but not too useful if you dont have a job.
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  • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
    Motley: Accepted.

    But itn't that the case with a lot of "developed" places around the world, including America?
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Prashaant,

    If you feel you are living in paradise, just sit back and laugh. There will be that many fewer people to hurt your way of life.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
    Steve, I never said I'm living in paradise. READ my posts above....
    What I was doing is pointing to the derogatory remarks you have been making...

    Just making a point that India is not the land of "elephants & poor people".
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Prashaant View Post

      Steve, I never said I'm living in paradise. READ my posts above....
      What I was doing is pointing to the derogatory remarks you have been making...

      Just making a point that India is not the land of "elephants & poor people".

      YEAH, I KNOW that the average street isn't overrun with monkeys, rats, or elephants. And a number of the people are CERTAINLY not poor. But some ARE.

      Of course, up till now, I didn't say ANYTHING about animals. Ever think that with all the people I talked to about it, MOST were INDIAN, the shows I have seen(documentaries/biographies, etc). history, and other things I have read, including a site written by english people that now LIVE in india, and the fact that MOST of the people I work with happen to be INDIAN, that maybe I DO know something about it. I realize that it says you are from/in india. Maybe you don't get out enough.

      HECK, various laws say that only some of the BEST indians come here. They have to have money, education, and some connection. And even some of THEM make one wonder. But the REALLY poor, lazy, poorly educated, etc... are really not even ALLOWED to come to the US on an H?b visa.

      And LET'S examine what I said:

      1. REAL odd toilets. ODD, since the BRITISH probably put them in, but FORGET IT!
      They are almost fashioned a bit like outhouse recepticles used to be. ALMOST like in that movie with rowan atkinson(?). I've seen that on just too many sites.

      Indian toilets: How To Use An Indian Toilet

      Are you saying that is WRONG?

      2. More sickness.

      I have had several INDIANS tell me this! The SAME is true of MEXICO! In mexico, one type is called "montazuma's revenge"

      3. Worse sanitation.

      Again, I have heard this from several places, and it is obvious in some pictures, etc... Just a couple months ago, there was a picture here related to telephone connections in india. Some DOUBTED it was real, but some indians said it was, I saw hindi on TWO signs, and they had other languages, and the PEOPLE looked indian.

      4. More haggling, and possible ripoffs.

      Again, I have heard this from several people. It is more likely to happen to NON indians though. It IS a kind of racism.

      5. The LONG trip there.

      YOU KNOW DIFFERENTLY!?!?!? PLEASE tell me how! I know a way to get MILLIONS if I can disprove this!

      6. Different laws/requirements.

      COME ON! It is a GIVEN!

      7. The caste system.

      AGAIN, many admit this!

      8. Different religion.

      EVEN many NON believers celebrate HINDUISM! In fact, the people used to be known as HINDUstani! The PLACE used to be called HINDUSTAN which in Hindi would mean Place of the hindus! PART of the country created a new "language" which is basically like hindi, which is like sanskrit, but it adopts words from ARABIC, and is WRITTEN in arabic. I bet most of them are muslim! Still, my point is that there may be a prejudice based on CREED, even if THEY don't really believe it themselves.

      9. A whole new country to get used to....

      AGAIN, a GIVEN!

      OK, WHAT did I say that was racist, or even untrue?

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        YEAH, I KNOW that the average street isn't overrun with monkeys, rats, or elephants. And a number of the people are CERTAINLY not poor. But some ARE.

        Of course, up till now, I didn't say ANYTHING about animals. Ever think that with all the people I talked to about it, MOST were INDIAN, the shows I have seen(documentaries/biographies, etc). history, and other things I have read, including a site written by english people that now LIVE in india, and the fact that MOST of the people I work with happen to be INDIAN, that maybe I DO know something about it. I realize that it says you are from/in india. Maybe you don't get out enough.

        HECK, various laws say that only some of the BEST indians come here. They have to have money, education, and some connection. And even some of THEM make one wonder. But the REALLY poor, lazy, poorly educated, etc... are really not even ALLOWED to come to the US on an H?b visa.

        And LET'S examine what I said:

        1. REAL odd toilets. ODD, since the BRITISH probably put them in, but FORGET IT!
        They are almost fashioned a bit like outhouse recepticles used to be. ALMOST like in that movie with rowan atkinson(?). I've seen that on just too many sites.

        Indian toilets: How To Use An Indian Toilet

        Are you saying that is WRONG?

        2. More sickness.

        I have had several INDIANS tell me this! The SAME is true of MEXICO! In mexico, one type is called "montazuma's revenge"

        3. Worse sanitation.

        Again, I have heard this from several places, and it is obvious in some pictures, etc... Just a couple months ago, there was a picture here related to telephone connections in india. Some DOUBTED it was real, but some indians said it was, I saw hindi on TWO signs, and they had other languages, and the PEOPLE looked indian.

        4. More haggling, and possible ripoffs.

        Again, I have heard this from several people. It is more likely to happen to NON indians though. It IS a kind of racism.

        5. The LONG trip there.

        YOU KNOW DIFFERENTLY!?!?!? PLEASE tell me how! I know a way to get MILLIONS if I can disprove this!

        6. Different laws/requirements.

        COME ON! It is a GIVEN!

        7. The caste system.

        AGAIN, many admit this!

        8. Different religion.

        EVEN many NON believers celebrate HINDUISM! In fact, the people used to be known as HINDUstani! The PLACE used to be called HINDUSTAN which in Hindi would mean Place of the hindus! PART of the country created a new "language" which is basically like hindi, which is like sanskrit, but it adopts words from ARABIC, and is WRITTEN in arabic. I bet most of them are muslim! Still, my point is that there may be a prejudice based on CREED, even if THEY don't really believe it themselves.

        9. A whole new country to get used to....

        AGAIN, a GIVEN!

        OK, WHAT did I say that was racist, or even untrue?

        Steve
        he he he... You seem to be obsessed with toilets.
        Just for your reading pleasure.. here's some good stuff about "ODD toilets" that look like "outhouse recepticles" that the British forgot about. (especially if you have Hemorrhoids..)
        Hemorrhoid Cure - Use Squat Toilets?
        Sitting Toilets -- Brilliant Innovation or Health Hazard?
        Health Benefits of the Natural Squatting Position

        Indian's come there because they are good at what they do... and they're only getting better.
        I won't stoop down to make comments on anyone else's religion..
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by Prashaant View Post

          he he he... You seem to be obsessed with toilets.
          Just for your reading pleasure.. here's some good stuff about "ODD toilets" that look like "outhouse recepticles" that the British forgot about. (especially if you have Hemorrhoids..)
          Hemorrhoid Cure - Use Squat Toilets?
          Sitting Toilets -- Brilliant Innovation or Health Hazard?
          Health Benefits of the Natural Squatting Position

          Indian's come there because they are good at what they do... and they're only getting better.
          I won't stoop down to make comments on anyone else's religion..
          NO, I just thought it VERY odd, and don't like such strange things.

          They come here because they can make more than in india, and they STILL make less, even though the h1b demands they make more. It is because they are CHEAPER, SIMPLE!

          I didn't say ANYTHING against any religion, simply that it is different, alien to most Americans, and Americans may feel, or actually be, left out because of it.

          And NOPE, I have no such obsession, I was just responding to some of what I have said, and answering WHY I would take a cut in pay to STAY.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Prashaant
    Anyways... no point arguing. I rest my case.

    On the bright side.... now u know what to do if you get Hemorrhoids!! :-P
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