So Gentlemen, how would you have acted on board the Concordia?

by 56 replies
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Just finished reading the daily mirror. I am so utterly disgusted by how our middle/ upper class "gentlemen" behaved on that boat that I wouldn't mind pulling one of those cowardly *******s by their ears and giving them a good old fashioned Liverpool "kiss".
What has the world come to?
#off topic forum
  • I can see how the old value of women first might not stick these days other than if they have children -- but for ANY adult to push past others to save their own ass in such a situation is absolutely shameful. They didn't just show greed, they further jeopardized other lives for themselves.

    This truly is the finest type of example of the complete breakdown of our societies. I'm afraid it's going to get much worse before it gets better.
  • I've been in emergency situations before.
    Much to my chagrin, I go in to auto mode and try to help others that are in the situation also
    I agree Sal.
    But on the other hand I saw many examples of people putting others first this summer after those storms we had here.
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    • I didn't read The Mirror's article,but I guess you're referring to the Captain abandoning ship before all the passengers and crew were off.

      If that's the case then that's a shameful and cowardly act.

      I used to work onboard the QE2,which also ran aground, off Rhode Island
      in the early 90's.
      Safety was of paramount importance,we had boat drill every week and
      passenger safety drills after every embarkation,the drill on the Concordia had been cancelled.
      When the ship was entering port or cruising close to land,the watertight doors were always closed,whether they were closed on the Concordia I'm not sure.

      As it stands, the Captain of the Concordia is a reckless b*****d who put the lives of people at risk to massage his own ego.
  • Is that the ship that sank? I didn't know they were doing that...sad.
  • This is almost like the scale of the titanic disaster... the good thing is it happened near the shore... Nothing beats Human error with all the high tech controls this ship has... If I we're in this situation I wouldn't panic and will be quick to help others especially that the shore is just near... Well it would be totally different for those who didn't know how to swim...
  • Mark - it wasn't just the captain. There were men pushing women and children aside to get onto the lifeboats first. Put kids in jeopardy of being trampled in their haste to get out first. If I were married to a man that had acted like that, my respect would be so far gone I'd not be able to live under the same roof anymore.
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    • Children should be saved first, no matter what (in my opinion). You need to do what you need to do to save yourself too, but not at the expense or the hurting of others. And people should help people along the way if they can.
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    • Hi Sal,

      If those reports are true then that is inexcusable,I have only been watching the BBC's coverage,I didn't read the Mirror article.

      It would appear that situations such as this seem to bring out the best and
      the worst in human nature.

      Regardless,it's abhorrent to think that 'men' could push women and children aside to save their own sorry a***s.
  • According to my understanding of Maritime Law, it is also illegal. The Captain is ALWAYS the last one off the ship, or he/she goes down with it.
  • A CREW member of the Costa Concordia has spoken out against the "nonsense and lies'' which have been reported, saying the captain did not abandon the ship's passengers.

    Read more: Crew member backs captain | News.com.au


    Andrew
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    • Not such "nonsense and lies" perhaps:

      Read more: Fleeing captain ordered back to sinking boat

      UPDATE: Just heard translated audio from the event which confirms the Captain was on his way and was ordered back to the bridge to coordinate the evacuation. One excuse he used for not going back to the bridge was "It's dark up there".

      It appears that the authorities are going to do what MMM suggests below (metaphorically at least).
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  • We all know who's gonna win worst captain of a ship award for 2012.
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    • Put Ricky Gervais on as presenter. Sure he'd have a thing or two to say on the matter.
    • the captain of Rena, container vessel, in Tauranga Harbour
  • The captain should quit while he's not so far behind:

    Costa Concordia: captain ‘says he tripped and fell into lifeboat’ - Telegraph
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  • Costa Concordia Cruise Disaster: Husband Sacrifices Life Jacket For Wife, Disappears Into Water
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    • It does seem odd to me that conclusions are drawn before an investigation is done.

      Did the captain abandon ship? I don't know. I've heard him say he was thrown into the water as the shipped rolled - and I can see that could happen. People were thrown into the water. The ship didn't sink but I don't know how you could reboard a ship that is laying on its side.

      I wondered how the person ordering the captain to return could issue orders without knowing exactly what was happening at the site - my first thought was "they are worrying about liability".

      When people are reacting from panic - the niceties of women first and "save others" can be forgotten. Truth is, until you are in a life or death crisis, you don't know how you would react.

      I don't know if the captain was bad or good - but I do think he is the chosen scapegoat. Maybe with good reason - or maybe to protect the company. The ship was only slightly to the left of the marked lane when it was damaged - some might question the safety of taking a large passenger ship through that narrow a passage.

      I've seen reference to the path taken on that same route by the ship a month ago - but that's the only comparison. Is this a regular route for that ship? Anyone know?

      kay
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  • How about a philosophical question?

    If you were in charge of a lifeboat and there was only one more seat left and two people still on board, who would you give the last seat to:

    An 87 year old woman
    -or-
    A 37 year old man, with a wife and three kids
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    • That's a tough one Kurt.
      But being how I turn into an idiot in emergency situations, my dumb ass would probably give up my seat and hang on the outside of the lifeboat so both could get on.
    • Good question to which I hope I will never have to find the answer myself.

      Regarding the main question, I think it's very easy for us to judge. We are here sitting in the comfort of our homes, talking whether what they did was bad or wrong, but until we'll be in their shoes, it's incredibly difficult to appreciate their actions.

      What we've seen is not them, it's their instinct to survive, which as any instinct, defeats every trace of logic or common sense.
  • As a person with disabilities I look at other considerations. When I fly, which is rare anymore, I always insist not to be seated next to the emergency exits. I could block or delay exiting for people who are more able to get out of a damaged aircraft. I never really thought that was a big deal, just good sense. Is there no civility in society anymore?

    Thomas
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    • US FAA law says it is ILLEGAL to be in the exit row if you are infirmed! You can NOT be under 15, unable to communicate in english, unable to move properly, require a seatbelt extender, unable to lift approximately 40 pounds, or unwilling to assist people exiting in an emergency. Below is how southwest puts this...

      {quote]
      Emergency Exit Seating Requirements
      Federal regulations require that a Customer select a non-exit seat if he or she cannot or does not wish to perform the following functions:

      Locate the emergency exit
      Recognize the emergency exit opening mechanism
      Comprehend the instructions for operating the emergency exit
      Operate the emergency exit
      Assess whether opening the emergency exit will increase the hazards to which passengers may be exposed
      Follow oral directions and hand signals given by a crewmember
      Stow and secure the emergency exit window so that it will not impede use of the exit
      Pass expeditiously through the emergency exit
      Assess, select, and follow a safe path away from the emergency exit

      In addition, to comply with federal regulations a passenger seated in an exit seat must have sufficient mobility, strength or dexterity in both arms, hands, and both legs to:

      Reach upward, sideways, and downward to the location of the emergency exit
      Grasp and push, pull, turn, or otherwise manipulate mechanisms
      Push, shove, pull, or otherwise open the emergency exit
      Lift out, hold, deposit on nearby seats, or maneuver over the seatbacks to the next row or out the opening objects the size and weight of over-wing window exit doors
      Remove obstructions similar in size and weight to overwing exit windows
      Reach the emergency exit expeditiously
      Maintain balance while removing obstructions
      Exit expeditiously

      A passenger seated in an exit seat must:

      Be 15 years of age or older
      Have the capacity to perform the applicable functions without the assistance of an adult companion, parent, or other relative
      Have the ability to read and understand instructions related to emergency evacuation provided by Southwest in printed or graphic form
      Have the ability to understand oral crew commands
      Have sufficient visual capacity to perform applicable functions without the assistance of visual aids beyond contact lenses or eyeglasses
      Have sufficient aural capacity to hear and understand instructions shouted by Flight Attendants without assistance beyond a hearing aid
      Have the ability to adequately impart information orally in English to other passengers

      A passenger seated in an exit seat must not:

      Have preboarded
      Use a portable oxygen concentrator
      Require a seat belt extension to fasten his or her seat belt
      Have a condition or responsibilities, such as caring for small children or pets, that might prevent them from performing the applicable functions
      Have a condition that might cause the person harm if he or she performs one or more of the applicable functions

      [/quote]

      Steve
  • Would Schettino be Italian for "little schettinare"?

    schettinare (v.)
    glide, ice-skate, roller skate, skate, skid, slew, slide, slide off, slip, slip off, slither,


    “Schettino, for instance, can be a diminutive of Francesco; but it also translates as 'careless'. ”
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  • I never knew that Steve. It makes good sense. In my case I'm pretty sure you'd have to look closely to see I have any disability at all. I've spent years learning to disguise the artificial leg and a couple of other details. It took me a hell of a lot longer to learn to walk the second time than it did the first. I have friends that don't know about "Bubba IV". (Bubba I is retired and is now a lamp in my office.) At any rate, I make sure the airline people are aware.

    Thomas
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    • OH, you CAN get past it, but it is ILLEGAL. Delta, Northwest, United, etc... tell you when you first try to get the seat. ALSO, at least delta and northwest(delta bought out northwest, but BEFORE they did...), ask AGAIN, when you board the plane. I HAVE been on planes though where a young kid, a dog(OH YEAH, NO carryon pets allowed in the exit row!), a VERY obese woman, and at least one person that couldn't speak english, actually sat in the exit row. They were kicked out on the final boarding check though.

      The only punishment really is that the AIRLINE could be fined, etc.... This isn't one where the passenger would be charged. The FAA and other government agencies sometimes secretly fly to check such things.

      Steve
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  • I am a person with many flaws, but I know with certainty that wouldn't have pushed ahead. I'd rather not live at all than sacrifice others in that way. We all have to go sometime anyway. The least we can have is some honor in our lives; without it life would be as ugly and barren as an unusable industrial wasteland.
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  • MMM,

    WELL, I would do 5 things for the cruisers!

    1. REFUND them 100%(DONE)
    2. OFFER them a 30% discount on future travel(DONE)
    3. OFFER them a refund for loss(APPARENTLY DONE)
    4. OFFER them a decent ticket for airtravel back to the location of their choice where the ship was going. (Apparently not offered) This SHOULD, in legal terms, "make them whole". You can NEVER FULLY restore things, with the lost time, stress, and perhaps money.
    5. Offer them maybe $1000 in good faith as part of an apology. Even THIS would set the company back a LOT!

    The cruise line has apparently done 60% of what I would do. They did the part they should be EXPECTED to do! How is that insulting? THEY did their best. This money should come out of the captain's hide, and that of the crew knowingly facilitating it!
    Of course, in addition to paying every penny, all funds due prior to the incident would be used to pay it down, and the people wouldn't be paid for THIS voyage.

    MY plan would pay them maybe $3000 each over all their costs. Some lawyer said they want $160,000 over. If 1000 people were on the ship, my plan sets them back about $3 million. Thelawyers would want $160Billion. If that is AFTER expenses, it would cost the cruise line $320Billion.

    At least in my case, they would ALSO give up ANY income from this voyage. In either case, they lose the value of nearly ALL assets on the ship.

    Steve
  • You could probably get a discount better than 30% from Price-line...just ask William Shatner...
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    • MOST discounts from priceline are on special situation, or undesirable things.

      They claim discounts on:
      flights. (TRIED IT! The real special rates can be on BAD routes/times!)
      hotels. (TRIED IT! You have to not be too particular.)
      CARS. (TRIED IT! Unreliable, and sometimes forces you to bid a PREMIUM, so WATCH IT! Also, the car place can be any of many. Luckily the two I boycott, Dollar and Thrifty, are NOT on the list)

      I don't see cruises or ships on that list!!!!

      Steve
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  • I strongly disagree with the fact that you don't know how you will act in an emergency. If you don't, you need to do some training as well as some soul searching.

    You know your own mind. You might be in denial, but you know damned well if you will be more likely to make an all out attempt to save your own skin regardless of risk to others. You know damned well how highly you regard other people.

    If you have bothered to train yourself in emergency response at all, you are also much less likely to act like a lunatic when something goes wrong. Everyone has emergencies during their lifetime. You know how you reacted to them. You know if you panicked and were either worthless or even a threat to others. You also know exactly how ready you are in case something goes seriously wrong.

    I hear people complaining about the ship's crew not showing anyone anything about emergency procedures. I didn't hear that anyone ASKED and was refused information. I don't like being on a vast expanse of water. Getting on a ship without finding out were emergency supplies are or learning anything about what to do isn't in my itinerary. That's the first thing I'd be wanting to know on a cruise. It boggles me that nobody ASKED. It is even further incomprehensible to me that anyone that doesn't know how to swim would even get on a boat in the first place.

    Perhaps we can't tell exactly how we'd react because each situation is different - but we know if we are the type of person who panicks, or doesn't give a rat about who else survives an emergency. Those men knew damned well they would be out for number one in a life threatening disaster. They might not have been able to tell if their choices would be the right ones to save themselves if they weren't trained in emergency response, but they knew every action they took would either be out of panick or just because they care about anyone else. It might be hard to admit to yourself that you are that type of person, but deep down you know.
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    • Not sure I agree Sal. Unless you have been trained for disaster, or have experienced it, you really DON'T know how you'll react. We would like to think we would. But if this were all true, there would not be panic, period. My guess is NO ONE believes they would panic. Also most times when panic begins, it escalates big time. Survival instinct is VERY strong.

      I am a father of 4 and I believe 100% that I would do everything in my power to get my kids (and wife) out of a situation alive even if I might not make it. But frankly, I have never been in that kind of situation. The human mind can't always be predicted.

      I know it makes us all feel better to say how disgusted we are by the actions of the ones who panicked... but I don't believe that if you have never been faced with disaster (or been trained to deal with it), if you spent your entire life "safe", you do NOT know with 100% certainty how you would react.

      I simply pray I never have to find out
  • Sal is right, all kidding aside, it is always better to be proactive rather than react after the fact.
    Which does indeed rely on you imagining a worst case scenario and preparing for it ahead of time.
    At least the best you can. Some think everything is all peaches and cream.</serious>



    I would have jumped off the ship, righted it, ripped open all my empty beer cans, with my teeth, while holding the ship upright and repaired the hole.

    Then sailed over to Ted's (island) and asked directions.
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    • True - I do agree that being somewhat prepared will help quite a bit. But frankly, who on a luxury cruise really prepares? They should, yes. But didn't I read that this ship canceled drills or something too?


      Edit: Interesting short read on reaction to disaster and being prepared for one:

      http://www.sbarc.org/publicservice/a..._Instincts.pdf
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  • Italian Cruise ship Captain Francesco Schettino began his new job as a bus driver yesterday.....


    Looks like he's off to a rocky start...
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  • Look at it this way. Gentlemen, and Ladies for that matter, generally refers to SOCIALLY upper middle class, etc.... people. Being on a cruise doesn't even ean you are FINANCIALLY upper middle class, etc.... HECK, you would think the CAPTAIN would have more class than to INTENTIONALLY take such a risk.

    Steve
  • Well as a former Merchant Navy Deck officer we were drilled in it was expected of us to stand by and co-ordinate the abandoning of a vessel. Espeicially the captain. He would be on ther bridge overseeing the whole operation. Like it or not his place was on the bridge of that ship.

    He was a complete chicken sh** to do what he did. Complete coward. To "trip into a lifeboat" and leave people (children) to abandon by them-selves is 100% wrong. Too many "foreign captains, officers do this. I wonder what their training, ethics are?

    Let's not even get into what the hel lwas doing flying past those ricks so fast and so close? Absolutely reckless! Imagine an air pilot doing the same with a jumbo jet full of passengers?

    He doesn't have a leg to stand on. Reckless. Criminally so. Coward...liar..complete t***** as a person. I.M.H.O.

    Hope he gets 20+ years in prison for it!
  • Sadly it's true. Like you say "it's the way society is going now..."

  • LOL funny..but let's not forget 20+ people have lost their lives in this event!

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    • Quote:
      Italian Cruise ship Captain Francesco Schettino began his new job as a bus driver yesterday.....

      I won't forget...but sometimes events happen that are so tragically insane we tend to look at them in an ironically humorous way as a defense mechanism to soften the blow of the reality of the situation.
      Thanks for the reminder -
  • Because it was his duty 100% to on that ship co-ordinating the whole operation. "thrown off" from inside the bridge LOL do me a favour!

  • Well it was his act of stupidity that caused the whole thing to start with. So why didn';t he accept the consequneces of it and take responsibility like a man instead of snivellnig and lying his was to justify his actions? If he's have said "I am sorry. I did a terrible thign and I wil ltake my punishment" whilst not condoninh is actions at least he take sresponsibiltiy for it.

    International maritime law states the captaion musty co-oridnate the abandoning of a vessel. His duty was to stay on the bridge to help, assist and dictate. He knew that and chose to do the coward act instead to save his own skin.

    OK...fine. So let him stand trial as a coward, liar, deserter and murder. Hope he gets life.

    What about the 20+ people who died simply so he could "show off"? The fact is he shouldn't have even put the ship in that situation to start off with. And he proable knew what a coward he is so he shouldn't have been a captain. Proably thought he's never have had to deal with a real emergency in his whole career.

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    • I agree 100%. My comments were in reference to the average, everyday person (passenger) and not the captain or any crew trained to deal with this.

      The captain should spend the rest of his life in jail. With Bubba as his newest pal...

  • i think the Greeks like that though Mike...so it might be be a punishment?

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