Health Insurance Options/Suggestions for the Self Employed?

12 years ago

We buy ours and pay through the nose, the price is outrageous.

My suggestion to you is to call some of the companies that cover people in your area and get prices, coverages, terms and conditions before your husband leaves his job. It might make him reconsider. His policy at work is a group policy, and individual rates are much higher.

You really cannot do without health insurance. A medical emergency can be financially devastating. If you have what is called a lapse in coverage between coverage at a job and purchase of a new policy, after 60 days they have no obligation to let you purchase their insurance. At least that is how it works with the company I have.

There are some medical discount companies you can join, but what they have is not health insurance, just a discount.

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cashtree 12 years ago

Originally Posted by AprilCT

We buy ours and pay through the nose, the price is outrageous.

Can you give a range please? Am curious.
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- seasoned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by cashtree
  
  Can you give a range please? Am curious.
  
  MY GOD, ***PICK ONE***! I forget what the lowest I have seen was, but the highest is VERY high! Is there even a limit?
  
  Of course, money may be money, but insurance is not insurance. CHECK what kind of things are covered, WHEN they are covered, how much YOU must pay before it kicks in, and what percentage it pays once it does, OH, and WHERE you must go, and what happens when you CAN'T go there!
  
  Some start paying after about $500, and some may start even earlier. Some start at like over $10,000. Some may provide virtually FREE service at one group of hospitals, and charge an arm and a leg elsewhere.
  
  My experience was ALMOST like patrician's. I estimated my entire all inclusive medical bills(including dentist, vision, and insurance) at less than $100/year. I went over a decade without insurance. A few years after I was in my next job, which gave insurance, I had a medical bill for over $200,000! You could break it up into transportation, prep, labor, supplies, parts, maintenance. Just the parts cost about $20,000. transportation was about $800.
  
  BTW The cost is NOT the monthly charge(premium)! If you buy the one with the lowest monthly charge, you are almost GUARANTEED to buy the most expensive policy. SURE, if you have NO problems, it will be cheaper. ONE problem may make it look like a RIPOFF!
  
  Steve
  
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Patrician

12 years ago

National Association for the Self-Employed

These people have some options - while the insurance may still be expensive they offer a lot of benefits that may not even be related to health - for example the agent offered to fix the dents in my car if I signed up. (money is money right?)

I gambled for 6 years with no insurance and I was blessed I never got caught, until just one emergency room visit with a bill of close to $11,000.

In the state I live in however they give a discount for uninsured 30% off and another 30% off if you can pay the bill all at once. (if not you can make arrangements to pay by installments) - so I ended up taking both discounts - and paid $6000 to get out of jail 'free'.

Sounds spooky but when I factored everything in, I still saved a lot of money with my gamble (figure $350 per month for 6 years) ($25,200)

So if you can't afford private insurance you may or may not want to take the gamble - maybe put money in your savings instead of paying for insurance and then if something happens at least you have something to negotiate with.

Even though all the 'discount' insurances are not really insurance, just discounts, you may want to consider them if you are both in good condition - they do represent a substantial reduction in costs if you get caught up.

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Halcyon

12 years ago

Yes, I agree that the prices are astronomical. That's why I was hoping the hear how others were handling it. You would think that there would be more solutions for the self employed. It's almost as if you have to remain a corporate drone in order to be healthy. So sad.

To have a plan similar to our current plan, we would have to pay around $965 per month. As I said in my original post, if I have to pay I will, but that's a big pill to swallow.

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ThomM

12 years ago

I'd like to know how some of my fellow US warriors handle health insurance?

I try to eat organic foods and avoid additives and GMO's.
I drink at least 2 quarts of spring water a day with 2T. of ACV per 16oz. of water.
I exercise daily, weather permitting by working on my property.
I don't take any prescription or over the counter medicines.
I drink green tea daily and Yerba Matte at least once a week.
At 58 I try to understand what ailments and problems I can expect and do what I can to eliminate the causes.
In other words I take a proactive approach to insuring my health

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Halcyon

12 years ago

I happy that your lifestyle affords you the luxury of no need for health insurance. I wish I could do the same, but I have a house full of boys and green tea won't cut it for us.

One wrong turn on a skateboard and we're in the poor house.

Originally Posted by ThomM

I try to eat organic foods and avoid additives and GMO's.
I drink at least 2 quarts of spring water a day with 2T. of ACV per 16oz. of water.
I exercise daily, weather permitting by working on my property.
I don't take any prescription or over the counter medicines.
I drink green tea daily and Yerba Matte at least once a week.
At 58 I try to understand what ailments and problems I can expect and do what I can to eliminate the causes.
In other words I take a proactive approach to insuring my health

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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I happy that your lifestyle affords you the luxury of no need for health insurance. I wish I could do the same, but I have a house full of boys and green tea won't cut it for us.

One wrong turn on a skateboard and we're in the poor house.

Never said it's for everyone

Most of my life I thought health insurance was a good thing because of accidents and such.
Then I found I relied more on my doctors to keep me healthy then on myself.
Most all my friends my age who have health insurance also have to take a lot of pills their doctors give them to keep healthy.
Funny thing is, health care wasn't expensive before health insurance.
Also doctors weren't as specialised and knew how to treat people.
Now with health insurance and pharmaceuticals, it's all about taking your money or the insurance companies money. If you are healthy, they don't make any money and they really don't like that.
IMHO health insurance changed the whole dynamics of health care and not in a good way.

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Funny thing is, health care wasn't expensive before health insurance.

And colleges weren't as expensive before scholarships, etc,,, and homes weren't as expensive befor home loans, etc...

One of my pet peeves!

Also doctors weren't as specialised and knew how to treat people.

Insurance and cash flow drove up costs and potential, and doctors needed or wanted more, so they started specializing. When I was a kid, most doctors seemed to be General, Ophthalmologists, or dentists. TODAY? TRY finding a general practitioner! Anyway, school costs more, etc.... Internships are considered EDUCATION, and NOT a job!

Now with health insurance and pharmaceuticals, it's all about taking your money or the insurance companies money.

YEP! And that means a lot of fees, and doctors, which increases costs, and thus price!

If you are healthy, they don't make any money and they really don't like that.
IMHO health insurance changed the whole dynamics of health care and not in a good way.

YEP! But medicare, etc... does the SAME! All the past history caused inflation, and it is FAR harder to DEflate! Look at homes, for example. If you got rid of home loans, owners would STILL have to sell high, and affordability would be harder. Construction couldn't pay nearly as well, so it would stop. Selling would be harder, so brokersm would stop. The whole thing could collapse worse than it did in 2008!

Steve
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- AprilCT 12 years ago
  
  cashtree, I can't give you a range. You are in a different state than I live, probably a different age, medical history, what type of insurance you want - a general insurance company, HMO, specialist in health insurance, etc., and it depends on what is available in your area.
  
  There's a pretty wild variation in what a policy will cover or not, deductibles, co-pays, what doctors or hospitals you can use, etc. When you start checking it out, it will make your head spin. In the end, it's all expensive and you have to make a decision.
  
  You might also check with your state to see if they provide anything for its citizens. Usually that depends on income limitations and the insurance is very limited.
  
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Bekah Howard

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I'll chalk the extra cost up to the price of freedom but I would like to know how other full time warriors navigate the health insurance situation.

This is exactly where my husband and I are at now. We've gone without health insurance for a couple years (He has longer than me as I was previously covered through my college). We are living fairly healthy, but with future plans for a family going uninsured much longer isn't an option. We've been shopping around a bit, but haven't decided on anything for sure yet and would love to hear input from other IMers.

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Michael Ten

12 years ago

I work a 9-5 job so I get insurance through that. Maybe... look for a non-profit health insurance company and talk to them. If I can ever quit my 9-5 to be independent, I want to be wealthy enough that I can buy insurance privately first, or else be so wealthy, I could pay for any medical care I'd ever need.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael55555

I could pay for any medical care I'd ever need.

You'd have to be a Billionare!!!!

Look at kim. That isn't the most expensive, but maybe like $400K/year! Add epo, and YIKES!

Steve

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debml

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

You'd have to be a Billionare!!!!

Look at kim. That isn't the most expensive, but maybe like $400K/year! Add epo, and YIKES!

Steve

Unfortunately, health insurance doesn't pay for what is considered "experimental treatment." Clinical trials are one option - and it helps if you live in or are willing to travel to where these trials are held.

Most life insurance policies contain a living benefit or accelerated death benefit provision will pay a benefit while the insured is still alive. I've had numerous clients use this provision to pay for experimental treatment.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by debml

Unfortunately, health insurance doesn't pay for what is considered "experimental treatment." Clinical trials are one option - and it helps if you live in or are willing to travel to where these trials are held.

Most life insurance policies contain a living benefit or accelerated death benefit provision will pay a benefit while the insured is still alive. I've had numerous clients use this provision to pay for experimental treatment.

Apparently, life insurance doesn't provide this. Some "life insurance" does. "life insurance" can have three values!

1. POLICY value-- This is the benefit that you get if you pay only for the life insurance. It determines the cost stated in the policy. I can't speak for all companies, but when I checked out allstate, they CLEARLY outlined this in the policy. As I recall, it was single year term, and the cost increased EVERY YEAR! BTW it is generally incredibly cheap. This is called "TERM LIFE INSURANCE" So WHY did the agent quote me over $1000/month? Just wait....
2. "Dividends"-- AGAIN, I can't speak for all states, but the state of california's insurance commissioner has defined this as "repayment of excess premium paid".
3. "CASH VALUE"-- The industry itself indicates that excess money paid goes here. THIS is why the agent quoted me over $1000/month on a policy that really only cost like $30/month! Apparently, THIS is where that "living benefit" or "accelerated death benefit" comes from.

In other words, using this would be like paying perhaps 3% more for everything(Given what I recall from allstate, but the older you are, the higher the percentage.), with that money going to the insurance company. It will actually cost LESS when the insurance runs out. BTW this has been SO exposed that everyone tries to tweak it a bit, etc... and rename it. It is called CASH VALUE INSURANCE, UNIVERSAL INSURANCE, PERMANENT INSURANCE, etc...

And experimental treatment that is REALLY experimental is stuff insurance as a whole really doesn't want to do. Why should it? You could end up worse, and it is a waste of money. "cash value insurance" is different in that you are NOT using insurance! You are using YOUR OWN MONEY!

If the experimental treatment is simply off label(I forget the medical term, but some treatments do something that will help the current problem, but are incorrectly listed as, and are for, another), maybe your doctor can get the insurance company to do the right thing. Some idiot toed the FDA line with a drug I was prescribed and was SHOCKED my doctor prescribed it, even though many MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people knew far better. It really is amazing. It makes you wonder how many other things are WRONG!

Steve

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debml

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Apparently, life insurance doesn't provide this. Some "life insurance" does. "life insurance" can have three values!

1. POLICY value-- This is the benefit that you get if you pay only for the life insurance. It determines the cost stated in the policy. I can't speak for all companies, but when I checked out allstate, they CLEARLY outlined this in the policy. As I recall, it was single year term, and the cost increased EVERY YEAR! BTW it is generally incredibly cheap. This is called "TERM LIFE INSURANCE" So WHY did the agent quote me over $1000/month? Just wait....
2. "Dividends"-- AGAIN, I can't speak for all states, but the state of california's insurance commissioner has defined this as "repayment of excess premium paid".
3. "CASH VALUE"-- The industry itself indicates that excess money paid goes here. THIS is why the agent quoted me over $1000/month on a policy that really only cost like $30/month! Apparently, THIS is where that "living benefit" or "accelerated death benefit" comes from.

In other words, using this would be like paying perhaps 3% more for everything(Given what I recall from allstate, but the older you are, the higher the percentage.), with that money going to the insurance company. It will actually cost LESS when the insurance runs out. BTW this has been SO exposed that everyone tries to tweak it a bit, etc... and rename it. It is called CASH VALUE INSURANCE, UNIVERSAL INSURANCE, PERMANENT INSURANCE, etc...

And experimental treatment that is REALLY experimental is stuff insurance as a whole really doesn't want to do. Why should it? You could end up worse, and it is a waste of money. "cash value insurance" is different in that you are NOT using insurance! You are using YOUR OWN MONEY!

Steve

I wasn't referring to a specific policy type, but rather the accelerated death benefit provision or living needs rider that are commonly available - even with term insurance.

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debml

12 years ago

Generally, health insurance is less expensive for individuals, but the benefits are not as rich as group plans. If you have been on COBRA in a state that allows composite rates, it's possible that individual rates will seem higher.

I'm looking at what plans can be offered to associations, and, while there are a a good assortment of available products, health insurance is extremely problematic for a number of reasons.

Regarding the different plan options available, it really comes down to what are your expectations regarding your health insurance plan. From a logical perspective, I can illustrate that a high deductible health plan is far more cost effective, but, if emotionally, you want your plan to have more bells and whistles, it does cost extra.

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Rose Anderson

12 years ago

The cost of private health insurance is completely crazy. (I know that's what was already said but I just had to say it one more time.)

The problem with running the risk of not having health insurance for a period of time is the risk of developing a problem that will then be a pre-existing condition. I'm an insulin dependent diabetic which makes it nearly impossible to find private insurance at any price. (and no, I was not over-weight)

I wish a group of IMer's could get together and form their own "group" plan.

Rose

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Entrecon

12 years ago

For insurance rates etc. in your state check out Home | HealthCare.gov it is one of the things that came out of Healthcare reform. It is still being developed, but I do believe all of the individual insurance plans are there.

One thing you can look at to keep costs down is what is called a High Deductible Health Plan. These usually have a higher deductible so you end up paying for your normal doctor visits and prescriptions out of pocket, but if you end up needing something more major it is covered. To help with the high deductible you can pair it with a HSA (Health savings account - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) or Health Savings account. You pay into these accounts with pre-tax dollars and it can be used for medical expenses. If you don't use the money it rolls over from year to year and it is basically your money.

Now companies can offer an HRA which is like an HSA, but it is the companies money, not yours. You can also look at an FSA, but the rules around those are a little bit more tricky and if you don't use the money within the given year it is lost.

As you mentioned some Chambers of Commerce and other associations do have discounted rates for their members. They basically become a "group" so that the insurance company can spread out the risk.

The bottom line for the insurance carriers is that they figure out about how much medical expenses for a given group of people is going to be and then distribute that cost across everyone in the group. So if you only have 2 people and you are in a higher risk group, your insurance is going to be more. If you are in a large group where most of the members are low risk (say in their 20's) you can get a lower rate.

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Halcyon 12 years ago

In Ohio, at least, I have three options. I can buy it on the individual market. As an individual we would be rated based on our past claims (as I said I have a house full of boys so can you imagination the various mishaps). The insurance company can charge us up the wazoo or deny us completely.

I can buy it as a small business owner. With only my family, we would still be rated based on past claims but in OH small business policies can't be denied but they can charge further up your wazoo.

Or I can buy into a group. A group is my preferred option because in OH, groups over 10 are rated by age band and not past health claims which means that the per person rate will be much lower than if each individual is rated. The downside to this is that the groups that I am eligible for have steep membership fees, so in essence I would still be paying out the wazoo.

I agree with Rose, I think interested warriors would be well served by creating a "group" or co-op. Unfortunately OH has laws preventing people from creating groups for the sole purpose of buying health insurance. However there are many services that warriors could benefit from by banding together and purchasing in bulk.

..mmm perhaps I have found a need that needs filling.

Oh there is a fourth option...convince my husband to keep his job.
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- ThomM 12 years ago
  
  Halcyon, I know you probably already looked into it but does your state have any state programs.
  For example here in NY we have the Child Health and Family Health plans that the state sponsors. Both plans are based on your income. The criteria is based on you not being able to afford the regular health insurance options offer through work or being self-employed. Your payments are based on your income (sliding scale) and the plans are administered through the regular health insurance companies.
  
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  Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
  Getting old ain't for sissy's
  As you are I was, as I am you will be
  You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.
  
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Entrecon

12 years ago

Also watch for something called Health Care Exchanges. Some states have started to implement them. They are also part of Healthcare Reform, but there is a question as to whether they will get implemented or not.

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Doug

12 years ago

Halcyon,

In addition to looking at a higher deductible for reducing major medical insurance premiums consider supplemental insurance too. Not instead of major medical but in addition.

Some supplemental plans are very reasonable in premium(age dependent) and will pay you the cash directly instead of the health care provider, and pay in addition to your major medical. This way you decide how to spend the cash.

And, I would look closely at either some type of Income Protection plan for you as self-employed and for your husband when he comes off the 9 to 5. Or, look into Disability plans as another backup option.

My wife and I have Blue Cross as our major medical, we each have supplemental disability, critical care and cancer polices too. Yes we spend a lot on premiums but the peace of mind is worth it in our position.

The alternative would be to pretty much lose everything should we become sick, or say, hit by a drunk driver. Sometimes medical costs are someone Else's fault but don't rely on them having coverage enough or coverage period.

Doug

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Halcyon

12 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Halcyon, I know you probably already looked into it but does your state have any state programs...

Yes I did look into them and wanted them to be an option for me so badly. But since I file real tax returns I'm on record as being outside of the income bracket. However I did consider buying a policy just for my kids.

Originally Posted by Entrecon

Also watch for something called Health Care Exchanges. Some states have started to implement them. They are also part of Healthcare Reform, but there is a question as to whether they will get implemented or not.

It's also a question of the options you'll have. Right now OH has only implemented their 'high risk pool' and is the biggest load of BS ever. First off there is only one insurance company and technically we don't qualify as high risk until we're denied by another company. The real problem is that the policies are only individual policies, you can't insure families with them. I won't hold my breath for OH to jump on the health exchange bandwagon too soon, our governor is a staunch republican.

Originally Posted by Doug

Halcyon,

In addition to looking at a higher deductible for reducing major medical insurance premiums consider supplemental insurance too. Not instead of major medical but in addition...

Fortunately our Aflac is employer independent so we'll just have to pay those premiums out of pocket.

We had to use it once before and it was a life saver so I couldn't agree with you more. The cost in premiums pale when compared to the peace of mind.

I do have a life and disability plan, as I've been self employed for quite sometime but I've been very lucky not to have to worry about the healthcare plan up until now.

So far it's looking like I'm going to purchase a High Deductible plan, with preventative care.

I'll buy it as a small business policy so I don't have to worry about our past claims being used to deny us coverage and the premiums are tax deductible. Furthermore those pre-tax funds we set aside in the HSA can be used for medical and dental expenses. Which will be helpful since I see braces in one of rascal's future.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Halcyon

It's also a question of the options you'll have. Right now OH has only implemented their 'high risk pool' and is the biggest load of BS ever. First off there is only one insurance company and technically we don't qualify as high risk until we're denied by another company. The real problem is that the policies are only individual policies, you can't insure families with them. I won't hold my breath for OH to jump on the health exchange bandwagon too soon, our governor is a staunch republican.

Not to be political, but there ARE a lot of back end concerns and, unless a LOT of other things happen, insurers will be priced out of the market, so the governor is NOT the only one. In fact, WHY would the governor determine who would be in the heath exchange? The INSURANCE commissioner determines if they are OK, whch of course is already done, and then they have to fit and commit to a lot of FEDERAL requirements. And they must CONTINUE to fit them within a few years, or they will be KICKED OUT!

If you can use the exchange, it was obviously approved and/or accepted by the state.

Anyway, the exchange, and admittance, is supposed to be on the federal level.

ALSO, it is supposed to be PHASED in. It won't finish until like 2014 or 2015.

And high risk WAS the first thing they wanted to fill. Low income, and uninsured prexisting condition coverage was the primary reason for it all.

Steve

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Patrician

12 years ago

One of the worst things that gets 'my goat' about this whole conspiracy with health insurance:

If you ever see your bill? stamped "this is not a bill" that your insurance co sends you?

The cost for the service is for example $200

What the insurance pays $15

(I am not talking copays or anything - this is the total cost of the service paid in full).

(from what I gather the provider agrees to take less FROM THE INSURANCE CO. - a megacorp right?

But if you are paying yourself cough up the whole $200.

Maybe I am warped but you would think it is the individual who would warrant the concession. I saw this with hospital, lab tests, doctors, etc - all paid for by insurance at what is that 1/10th? (don't do the math, i am just sayin').

This is really bogus.

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Halcyon

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Not to be political, but there ARE a lot of back end concerns and, unless a LOT of other things happen, insurers will be priced out of the market, so the governor is NOT the only one. In fact, WHY would the governor determine who would be in the heath exchange? The INSURANCE commissioner determines if they are OK, whch of course is already done, and then they have to fit and commit to a lot of FEDERAL requirements. And they must CONTINUE to fit them within a few years, or they will be KICKED OUT!

If you can use the exchange, it was obviously approved and/or accepted by the state.

Anyway, the exchange, and admittance, is supposed to be on the federal level.

ALSO, it is supposed to be PHASED in. It won't finish until like 2014 or 2015.

And high risk WAS the first thing they wanted to fill. Low income, and uninsured prexisting condition coverage was the primary reason for it all.

Steve

I could write pages about this, but it was not appropriate. Because the ins and outs, whys and hows are not relevant to what I was seeking in this post.

If you wish to discuss this further please pm me and we can discuss this further

OH State Issue 3 on 11/8/2011 ballot is a great place to prepare for our discussion should you choose to take me up on it. Also review Kasich and Dewine's healthcare reform policies as I will reference them frequently. I hope to hear from you soon.

Do you skype?

Originally Posted by Patrician

One of the worst things that gets 'my goat' about this whole conspiracy with health insurance:

If you ever see your bill? stamped "this is not a bill" that your insurance co sends you?

The cost for the service is for example $200

What the insurance pays $15

(I am not talking copays or anything - this is the total cost of the service paid in full).

(from what I gather the provider agrees to take less FROM THE INSURANCE CO. - a megacorp right?

But if you are paying yourself cough up the whole $200.

Maybe I am warped but you would think it is the individual who would warrant the concession. I saw this with hospital, lab tests, doctors, etc - all paid for by insurance at what is that 1/10th? (don't do the math, i am just sayin').

This is really bogus.

It is very bogus and I've argued this point profusely. There are a few reputable discount plans that give individuals those insurance type discounted rates which is good.

The problem comes in when no one at the dr's office knows how to process the discount. Some one always inputs it incorrectly and you still end up being billed for the difference.

My sis has one of those plans and the company reports that they're a part of the Multiplan PPO network so members are eligible to pay the same rates that the PPO pays. Sounds great, right up until you get to the dr's office and the receptionist says..."what am I supposed to do with this?"

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Halcyon

I could write pages about this, but it was not appropriate. Because the ins and outs, whys and hows are not relevant to what I was seeking in this post.

If you wish to discuss this further please pm me and we can discuss this further

OH State Issue 3 on 11/8/2011 ballot is a great place to prepare for our discussion should you choose to take me up on it. Also review Kasich and Dewine's healthcare reform policies as I will reference them frequently. I hope to hear from you soon.

Do you skype?

It is very bogus and I've argued this point profusely. There are a few reputable discount plans that give individuals those insurance type discounted rates which is good.

The problem comes in when no one at the dr's office knows how to process the discount. Some one always inputs it incorrectly and you still end up being billed for the difference.

My sis has one of those plans and the company reports that they're a part of the Multiplan PPO network so members are eligible to pay the same rates that the PPO pays. Sounds great, right up until you get to the dr's office and the receptionist says..."what am I supposed to do with this?"

Actually, no I HAVEN'T skyped. apparently, someone is there as me. A friend asked me to become a member for some reason, so maybe I will. Still, arguing about the problems of a US government run program with 2 boards of people that are largely ONLY incompetent parasites to run the program is not something I care to do.

As for the stupid contract tricks, you KIND of have a point, but they usually only discount it 50%. Part of that is because OTHER plans pay PEANUTS, and they have to make it up SOMEWHERE.

Steve

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Halcyon

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

.. Still, arguing about the problems of a US government run program with 2 boards of people that are largely ONLY incompetent parasites to run the program is not something I care to do.

...

Steve

No worries, I was just picking on you because no matter what I say, you'll show up to challenge it.

It's all in the name of intelligent discourse and I don't mind at all. We'll find something else to debate about I'm sure.

Thanks
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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Halcyon

No worries, I was just picking on you because no matter what I say, you'll show up to challenge it.

It's all in the name of intelligent discourse and I don't mind at all. We'll find something else to debate about I'm sure.

A couple of people here have accused me of FOLLOWING them!

I wasn't following ANYONE! I may not agree with all you say, bt at least YOU are civil. And what I a saying is true. I don't like health insurance ANY more than anyone here! It IS a SCAM, ETC!!!!! BUT, the *****ONLY***** decent, sustainable, and proper way to end it is to CUT COSTS!

SURE, you and your ilk say, CUT PREMIUMS! But ****THEY**** are not the costs! The costs are various government and labor regulations that make a practical piece of GARBAGE cost a FORTUNE!

Want to hear examples? OK, I had an operation around 2004. There were SEVERAL doctors operating on me, and they even accepted calls DURING the operation! And they used a product that cost $20,000! Another doctor kind of laughed, and said HE would have offered it for $8,000! SOUNDS like a bargain, huh? I don't even think it is worth $100! HELL, it was probably made in china for LESS than that.

I was TRICKED into a scam to take a drug that cost 10 TIMES the price of the generic, and the LAW locked me into that! Once the prescription is given, you generally have to find someone to give you a new one for the generic. I have to take tests that cost $40+(an average of every 3 weeks), or have to search for a hospital, and vendor, and get a special prescription to get a $2000 gadget to do it MYSELF, for <$7! The FDA and FTC allowed the company to basically BREAK THE LAW and make my machine obsolete! The OLD prescription is NO GOOD for a NEW machine! I ALSO had to pay $300 to be taught to use that machine! I generally DON'T READ MANUALS, and usually have NO problems! The machine is NO harder to use than a diabetic blood sugar monitor, and I have used several of those without EVER reading instructions. GIVE ME A BREAK! Have a nervous person with a defective AORTA less than 2 months after OPEN HEART SURGERY drive through TWO states to make a day trip to have a 1 hour course to get a machine to ensure the person doesn't get a stroke? WHAT'S NEXT? Sticking a person with 1000 rusty needles before giving them a tetanus shot?

Taxis typically cost $3/mile, less than $7 minimum, but ambulances cost over $75/mile and about $250 minimum. EVEN if they are used only as a taxi!

HECK, I had a colonoscopy! They kept lying to me and tricked me into the situation without being informed. I should have SUED! You have to have a FRIEND or RELATIVE pick you up or stay there for who knows how long! You can NOT walk, take a taxi, or any other such thing.

Do you see all the waste? Give me a LICENSE to take the medication I must take for the rest of my life, and to order/use the machine! And bring the cost of the machine down! LOWER the cost of ambulances! How about charging $200/hour and $10/mile? That is enough to cover EVERYTHING including 2 highly skilled EMTs! My average cost would have been about $300-$400 instead of $800-$900! How about providing a little care kit(with 2 days worth of lunches and dinner, a few towels, and instructions), to allow people to use a tai and take care of themselves for simple operations like colonoscopies. You could charge maybe $40 for it. It could have a few of those campbells soup microwave cans, towels, maybe a few bottles of water, and towels. My friend gave me something like that for FREE! I never even knew he was my friend or cared so much. I told my coworkers my plight, and he volunteered!

Steve

Thanks

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Patrician

12 years ago

Oh yeah - the 'human error' element on top of the mass conspiracy.

I recently argued my point and called a discount plan I have for vision to prove it and then had the hoity toity receptionist at my eye doctor call them herself. I saved myself about $70.

It was miraculous almost to win something for a change, but of course she said 'cough cough well ok for YOU it is not $100 for the exam, only $30' - yeah right it is only for me. How many people will they charge $100 rather than to let them know they are entitled to pay only $30... and this is a major, well-known plan...

Never more important than to be well-informed and take charge of your own health. I guess not just on what is good and bad for you that MDs are sometimes apparently unaware of (hard to imagine these 'gods' can be so dim sometimes) but also on what your rights are.

However I am still laughing at the house of Halcyon "I happy that your lifestyle affords you the luxury of no need for health insurance. I wish I could do the same, but I have a house full of boys and green tea won't cut it for us."

I'm shocked! LOL.

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Patricia Brucoli
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even

12 years ago

Of course, money may be money, but insurance is not insurance. CHECK what kind of things are covered, WHEN they are covered, how much YOU must pay before it kicks in, and what percentage it pays once it does, OH, and WHERE you must go, and what happens when you CAN'T go there!

Thanks

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Halcyon

12 years ago

It's quite funny around here. There are sports, routine clumsiness, big brother/little brother battles and of course the occasional "Let's see what happens if we ..."

So the only thing I could do with green tea is use the bag to plug the wound as we drive to the hospital.

You're right about being your own advocate. If left to their own devices the healthcare system will bleed you dry and pick over your parched bones. Then charge you some more because you're no longer in perfect health.

I must say $70 off of $100 isn't bad. May I ask which vision discount plan you use? My sis uses Careington.

If I were single, I'd consider them for health care. Once you get past the apathetic front office personnel the price isn't bad. I think she paid $30 total for a doctor visit plus labs. I pay more than that to take my cat to the vet.

Thanks

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Patrician

12 years ago

It's good old AARP - $16 a year I think. (just went up from $12)

They have big discounts for glasses as well as exams.

They also have a lot of other benefits but this is the only one I have actually used.

I always thought they were all hype until this...

too funny: {... and glad my 'boy' is grown up}.

"So the only thing I could do with green tea is use the bag to plug the wound as we drive to the hospital."

{btw i was born in yo, oh}