Why I Am Very Scared For My Country..

12 years ago

I firmly believe in the need (and power) of self education. The important thing is to teach them the importance of a education. The link between what they are learning in school and what they want to be doing after graduation is not strong enough.

It's amazing what a healthy desire for knowledge and reading (classics and modern literature) can do for you.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

C'mon now. As if it matters what corporate string-puppets' names are. All they need to know is who the real leaders are:
Koch Family

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kokopelli

12 years ago

And don't forget the parents - they also share responsibility for the education of their kids, it's not just up to the teachers.

But, yeah, the ignorance on that video is kinda appalling!

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thunderbird

12 years ago

Originally Posted by kokopelli

And don't forget the parents - they also share responsibility for the education of their kids, it's not just up to the teachers.

But, yeah, the ignorance on that video is kinda appalling!

It wouldn't brother me if my son grew up and didn't know those lackeys' names. I'd want him to know math, writing, ability to defend self intellectually or -- if it ever came to it -- physically, fluency in more than one language, ability to make money without being a shameful lackey, and other relevant skills.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

Whoa! That's sad!
Q."name a country that starts with "U" - A. "U-rope" LOL!
Q."how many countries border the US? A."there's too many"...:confused::confused:

I used to spend hours in the library looking for answers...

Now it's as simple as typing a question into a browser -

Kids need to be taught how to think - and how to learn.

Not told what to think - and what to learn...

Never stop asking questions - and looking for answers...

Always ask, Why? 'Because', is not an answer.

Did you ever hear the story of the math professor who put an unsolvable math problem on the board, and the student who came in late...thought it was homework - and solved it?
Nobody told him it could not be solved...

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hardraysnight

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Whoa! That's sad!
Q."name a country that starts with "U" - A. "U-rope" LOL!
Q."how many countries border the US? A."there's too many"...:confused::confused:

I used to spend hours in the library looking for answers...

Now it's as simple as typing a question into a browser -

Kids need to be taught how to think - and how to learn.

Not told what to think - and what to learn...

Never stop asking questions - and looking for answers...

Always ask, Why? 'Because', is not an answer.

Did you ever hear the story of the math professor who put an unsolvable math problem on the board, and the student who came in late...thought it was homework - and solved it?
Nobody told him it could not be solved...

and i thought the answer to question number 2 was who cares

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I used to spend hours in the library looking for answers...

I remember when I was trying to learn visual basic. I needed to know info that should have been ******STANDARD******!!! With politics, and a lot of people writing language books that had NO concept of how languages and computers worked, I found myself in a bind. NO book covered enough things. The internet was open, but not yet used for that sort of stuff. The WWW wasn't out. Had I gone to a library, I could spend DAYS, and the books were too old. So I went to bookstores scanning LOTS of books. I found maybe 80% of the material, and I had to leverage that with help to get the rest.

Now it's as simple as typing a question into a browser -

EXACTLY!!! Learning PERL and PHP was FAR simpler. MAN I wish the internet was open and had http when I was a young kid. Kids today have NO appreciation for it!

Kids need to be taught how to think - and how to learn.

Not told what to think - and what to learn...

Never stop asking questions - and looking for answers...

Always ask, Why? 'Because', is not an answer.

At least in MY day, and obviously days before it, kids were BORN with the ability to discern, etc.... ALWAYS asking WHY! And "adults" FOUGHT to get "because" to be "accepted". Of course kids ORIGINALLY trust, but eventually they reassess stuff.

Did you ever hear the story of the math professor who put an unsolvable math problem on the board, and the student who came in late...thought it was homework - and solved it?
Nobody told him it could not be solved...

NOPE, but I wouldn't doubt it.

Steve

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Michelle Brouse 12 years ago

My goodness, yes - I saw that video earlier linked from some of the homeschoolers in our area. Interesting, because I had just explained to the boys about a week ago - the difference between "memorization" and "learning".

With "memorization" - public schoolers are basically taught a bunch of facts, figures, etc - and they are expected to "memorize" it long enough to pass a test. So they study, and they memorize. As soon as they get through that test, there is a whole new set of facts, figures etc. to learn for the NEXT test. Information to be memorized is coming at a fast pace, so I think they basically retain what they can just from sheer memorization. Cram enough info in there - and the things that one DID have memorized, slowly fades away. Or it quickly fades - depending on the person.

"Learning" entails that you actually understand what you're "learning" about. If you understand that 2X3 actually means two groups of three items, you won't have a problem coming up with the right answer. (If you know how to "add" that is.) And it's not likely that you will forget that 2x3=6 from "memorization" because it's pretty simple. However, I surely do NOT "remember" what 54X98 is. Some math folks may - but I sure don't. We have calculators for bigger numbers, and even if I had no calculator - if I understand that 54x98 is the same as 54 groups of 98 items, I can figure out the answer.

The problem with public schools as I see it, is that there is too much memorization going on, and not enough true learning. The love of learning is not there for these kids anymore. They do not see the point in memorizing all this obscure stuff, that they really don't use in daily life.

Now if you flip it around, and let a child learn by doing, giving them time to understand what they are learning, why they are learning it, and how it is useful to them - then you're doing something. They will be able to spout off correct answers to all kinds of things because they understand it fully. Especially if the interest to learn is there.

Interestingly enough, my 10 year old knows exactly who is president, and he could name off a number of others just by seeing a picture of them. Mostly people like George, Abraham, Kennedy, Obama... and yes, he knows who Ron Paul is too. My youngest just turned 7 at the end of Jan, but even he can tell you who the prez is and could point him out in a lineup. lol!

The oldest also knows about sopa, and pipa, and even acta (to some extent) because he saw a post on facebook about the "blackout". He wanted to know more, so he looked it up. Then he wanted to "blackout" his OWN little website that rarely gets any love. We must have messed around with a line of code for his blog for about an hour - before I found a plugin, that would do exactly what we were trying to do. Then he goes... "Mom, I want to learn how to program." lol! Oh boy - I don't do that son, but I'm sure we can find someone who can help him learn.

I can say, that I wish I would have been homeschooled when I was a child. I remember the days in school. I remember the memorization. My favorite classes were Art and English. Art because I just loved it anyhow, and English because I had a few cool teachers along the way. But most of my days were spent dealing with people that I would have rather not dealt with, trying to meander my way along without getting into some kind of trouble - or into some fight or another. Never did like to fight, but found myself acting just crazy enough not to have to defend my own ass constantly. Never liked school back then, and don't like it now.

Honestly, on seeing some of my brothers homework - I wonder if they are not deliberately trying to confuse kids now days. Hmmm - ya think? One math paper in particular really made me go "whaaaat the hell?" It was a sheet of paper that had math set up like a factory - I kid you not. There was a picture, along with the problem. It was exactly like... you put the problem into the machine, you factor it in there, and it spits out the part/answer. I'm like you have GOT to be kidding me. And it made no sense. Not to me anyhow - I wouldn't have been able to figure that out. And my brother says to me, "well, this is just ONE way to figure it out." HHAHAHA! you mean there are several more? Oh yeah...

I probably shouldn't even get started or it'll get all postal and whatnot. I'm just glad that for NOW - my boys stay home to learn. They are legally allowed to stay home and learn. They may choose to go to public school, or they may be FORCED to go at any time. Until then, I'm happy to continue letting them LEARN instead of MEMORIZE everything.
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KimW

12 years ago

Its appalling,but not surprising.
The government has taken away the ability of teachers to really teach student,and (someone said don't forget the parents) they can't raise their children without government interference.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Matthew NY

'Lunch Scholars' Video Reveals American Teens Can't Answer Basic Trivia (VIDEO)

This is why it is important to expand your knowledge out of the limits of the US education system. I feel that its my duty to further educate myself on a daily basis. Unfortunately, much of young America is still hurting.

:: MP

In all honesty, outside of current events, that they ******SHOULD****** know, these are things that ARE supposed to be taught in school. I can forgive a person for not knowing the capital of Washington. At least THEY knew washington is washington, which MANY don't seem to know. Washington is a WEST COAST state, not a DISTRICT near the east coast that is trying to become a state! I was expecting someone to say DC or some such. But saying the vice president is bin ladin!?!?!? YIKES!

WOW!

Frankly, those people are going to a school to SUPPOSEDLY learn things that only a subset of society knows as well, and give NO thought to common knowledge that all SHOULD know.

But YEAH, your education should NOT stop at school. If it does, what is the point of even going?

KIM,

A LOT of teachers are more guilty than ANYONE else! To add insult to injury, many teachers have EVEN cheated and falsified records so they could get more money!

Steve

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

You mean the VP is NOT Joe Bin-Laden? Does FOX know that? :confused:

Because it's on the West Coast...?? - there is only 3 states for crying out loud...
Doesn't anybody look at a map anymore?

But it reminds me of a story a reporter from the Portland Oregonian told one time -
They were in DC to see a particular politician, and his secretary asked what paper he was from..."The Oregonian" -

Secy: Where is that?
RPTR: Portland...
Secy: Portland, Maine?
Rptr: No - Portland, Oregon...
secy: Where's "oregon"? :confused:
rptr: on the west coast...
secy: Naw - California is on the west coast! :p
rptr: Lady - there's more than 1 state on the west coast...:rolleyes:

And he went on to remark...this is a Congressman's Secretary

Probably the same one who asked if the easiest way to get to Hawaii, was take a plane to LA - then take the train to Honolulu...:rolleyes:

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

You mean the VP is NOT Joe Bin-Laden? Does FOX know that? :confused:

Because it's on the West Coast...?? - there is only 3 states for crying out loud...
Doesn't anybody look at a map anymore?

But it reminds me of a story a reporter from the Portland Oregonian told one time -
They were in DC to see a particular politician, and his secretary asked what paper he was from..."The Oregonian" -

Secy: Where is that?
RPTR: Portland...
Secy: Portland, Maine?
Rptr: No - Portland, Oregon...
secy: Where's "oregon"? :confused:
rptr: on the west coast...
secy: Naw - California is on the west coast! :p
rptr: Lady - there's more than 1 state on the west coast...:rolleyes:

And he went on to remark...this is a Congressman's Secretary

Probably the same one who asked if the easiest way to get to Hawaii, was take a plane to LA - then take the train to Honolulu...:rolleyes:

WOW! So why did the secretary believe that hawaii took so long to become a state? Or did she not know we had 50 states, etc... And california is large, but not THAT large.

I wonder if europeans are as bad about things like where is scotland, or the ukrain. I mean I am certainly no scholar of geography, though I AM better than the examples given here! But when I flew to Denmark, I quickly relearned where everything was in relation so I could take trans, etc... and follow where they were going. imagine MOST europeans learn that stuff early and retain it because of vacations, etc...

steve

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Shack0812

12 years ago

This is not an issue available only in US. I think it is spread worldwide. People are getting dumber because they have so many things already prepared for their survival, so the only thing they do is to have fun. Everyone should consider the personal evolution of life, but they don't teach you that in school. I don't think somebody wants a herd of cows that are intelligent and are asking questions so one day the cows will evolve and escape from the owner.
The only interest of the owner is to have cows that are producing milk and are healthy enough to be eaten.

This is a metaphor to us + governments.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Michelle Brouse,

YOU NAILED one problem! They have actually found patterns to memorizing things. In the standard type of memorizing, the average person needs a certain number of repetitions to learn something to the next point. The required number is like 11 times as great if they don't feel they have to remember it. At each point, the length of time to the next point is longer BUT, if you reach that point before accessing it, you may forget!

And I say standard because visualizing, concentrating at it, really caring about it, or seeing a pattern or connection often helps at each stage even if it may not affect the other things.

And almost NO test requires a 100% correct score, and there are often clues, and multiple choice. So they may not be remembered ANYWAY.

STILL, WOW! I had an accident once(THANKS DELTA AIRLINES FOR THAT!), and they actually asked me who the current president and vicepresident were as part of the test. If I got them wrong, they might have figured I had some severe brain injury. I wonder how many get misdiagnosed! They HAVE to ask a general knowledge question because THEY have to know the answer, and the time span you could have known it, etc...

And did you know there are ACTUALLY people in congress that don't know the three branches of government? Some don't even know their OWN branch!

I was never home schooled, but I did go to some private schools, my mother cared about some of the basic stuff, and I DID study a number of things about science, electronics, etc... on my own. I read well when I went into the first grade, while others seemed to struggle.

Anyway, I have seen foreigners say that they don't have problem a or b, etc... and, in looking at them, find that THEY do! So it isn't ALL in the US.

Regarding math, there is the old FOIL technique that is rarely really explained, at least not when I went to school. I had ONE teacher that explained that and soon EVERYONE was using it. It turns out that, supposedly, the vedas have a similar thing in a set of formulas. ONE formula, for example, works with numbers around 10.

14=10+4
13=10+3
13*14=(10+4)(10+3)

FOIL means first outer inner last

10*10=100(first values)
3*10=30(outer values)
4*10=40(inner values)
3*4=12(last values)
100+30+40+12=182

The INDIAN method for this STARTS OUT the same BUT
10*10=100(ALWAYS starts at 100, so 1 is ASSUMED)
3+4=7 (this is the 10s column, so is effectively 70)
3*4=12(this is the 1s column, so the 1 carries to the 7)

182! (100+70+12)

Does THAT look like what your son was taught? BTW I learned the indian way in only the past few years. There are like 16 basic rules, and this s just one. Another is:

If a number ends in 5, and is 2 digit, you multiply the first digit by a value one greater than itself, and add 25

85*85=8*9 and 25
7225

Steve

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Somali

12 years ago

I agree that we need to keep expanding our knowledge so we won't be left out for the things happening around us. We need to expand knowledge to be more competitive to be more successful..

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LeeLee

12 years ago

I was never taught the foil method but I can do math in my head (a dying art). I was lucky enough to go to a private school that for the most part still did things the old fashioned way. When I was in 2nd grade we memorized the multiplication tables. I still use this knowledge every single day.

But my school did make one exception and tried the new math for a short time. We learned to do long division by adding a load of zeroes. I had a hard time making sense of it. So my mom taught me how to do long division the old fashioned way and I used to back the answer into the stupid zero happy work books.

The biggest problem with education is our values systems. My town has a constant stream of immigration. Those first and second generation families ALL thrive in school. Not all can afford private school so they attend public school and they STILL learn.

Sure some of that learning is supplemented at home. But also at home is the expectation of good performance. There is nothing wrong with class sizes or resources or even I shudder to say, teachers. You can't teach someone who has no interest in learning what you are teaching.

And a lot of these seemingly dopey kids really aren't dumb. Just ask them about something they are interested in like celebrities or music. Most of them have no trouble learning popular culture. So there is nothing wrong with their ability to learn. Just what they value as worth knowing.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by LeeLee

I was never taught the foil method but I can do math in my head (a dying art). I was lucky enough to go to a private school that for the most part still did things the old fashioned way. When I was in 2nd grade we memorized the multiplication tables. I still use this knowledge every single day.

Yeah, I do ok with mental math also. These are simply ways that some work can be simplified. and foil is really supposed to be taught to everyone. It is basically a way to prove and find the value of quadratic equations. It is just not often taught that way. Lets say it is:

(x+4) (x+3) You THEN have
x2+4x+3x+12 or x2+7x+12

THEN it gets interesting! In my revious examples, would be ten or 100+70+12. Sound familiar?

I think everyone has noticed how I tend to go off on tangents. That might be my biggest strength. Sometimes ONE WORD could cause me to just start linking u a bunch of things and make sense where none seemed to be before. foil kind of did the same.

But my school did make one exception and tried the new math for a short time. We learned to do long division by adding a load of zeroes. I had a hard time making sense of it. So my mom taught me how to do long division the old fashioned way and I used to back the answer into the stupid zero happy work books.

Yeah, ANOTHER word I learned was OUTMODED! Oddly, I learned that after math class! You see one ODD book with some ODD ideas, that I have NEVER seen since, was a math book. Interestingly, it had a stamp saying it was outmoded. Being a word I didn't understand, I looked it up. "OBSOLETE" Now THAT I understood!

The biggest problem with education is our values systems. My town has a constant stream of immigration. Those first and second generation families ALL thrive in school. Not all can afford private school so they attend public school and they STILL learn.

Sure some of that learning is supplemented at home. But also at home is the expectation of good performance. There is nothing wrong with class sizes or resources or even I shudder to say, teachers. You can't teach someone who has no interest in learning what you are teaching.

Well, I have spoken with some neighbors about this. They say that their kids have trouble understanding what some of the FOREIGN teachers are saying! And I have seen a LOT of foreign students that HAVEN'T done well. ALSO, THEY fight to be taught in their OWN language. 9 times out of ten, that means they have a better shot than english speakers have with a lot of FOREIGN teachers.

And a lot of these seemingly dopey kids really aren't dumb. Just ask them about something they are interested in like celebrities or music. Most of them have no trouble learning popular culture. So there is nothing wrong with their ability to learn. Just what they value as worth knowing.

GRANTED nobody can know EVERYTHING, but there IS a limit! I don't care if they are sick, have a fever, it is after lunch, and they haven't eaten the whole day, and they are tired, that is BAD!

Steve

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garyv

12 years ago

Michelle is right - as we make a greater effort to "leave no child behind", our teachers are migrating from being a "teacher" to being a memorization coach.

When I was younger, a teacher could slowly guide us into an "aha" moment. It may have taken a while to get us there, but we were learning - not memorizing.

Now teachers are under strict timelines, and the incentive for our teachers now is to make sure everyone in the class can pass a standardized test at specific times during the year. So we're pretty much forcing our teachers to use memorization rather than teaching.

And don't even get me started on the lack of discipline in the classrooms. We've basically tied our teachers hands when it comes to discipline. - We're doing our children a great disservice.

I'll be glad when we get enough people behind a voucher program. I'm spending a fortune to send my kids to a private school, and it's well worth it. I just wish I didn't have to pay taxes for a failing system that I'm not using.

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seasoned

12 years ago

I shouldn't say this, this, but I will. I recently went to a meeting. Almost 12 people signed up to give a talk on a surprise topic. They went OUT OF THEIR WAY to sign up! One of them introduced himself to me, and I IMMEDIATELY sensed something was off. Being the PC thing to do, I never even inquired. Well, each person came into the room in turn and was asked a surprise question, and the SAME question, that perhaps everyone here could quickly answer. All there DID! They QUICKLY STARTED, and spoke at LEAST the required time, and some spoke TWICE that!

So what about the one I mentioned earlier? He didn't even START! The room was SILENT until his time elapsed 2.5 minutes later. NOBODY even mentioned about the lack of a speech, etc... We all simply waited. At one point I came to the belief that THIS was probably the guy they spoke about earlier that, on a KNOWN topic series which he could have taken a year on if he wanted, he kept presenting the same speech that people doubted he even wrote.

When I heard them talk about him earlier I actually GASPED when they said that they shouldn't say anything to him because they didn't want to upset him. It is the SAME thing I have heard teachers say about kids that can't read!

HEY, I'm not perfect. If I make a mistake APROACHING that, I practically yell at MYSELF. I was thinking about going there, but seeing as they themselves have been a little too rosy, that comment, and just having the 2.5 minutes of silence, I guess I have to reconsider. There is a BIG difference between helping and saying NOTHING negative, and they don't seem to strike it. PART of the reason of going there is getting CRITICISM so you can actually improve. It seems It would be a good idea to tape myself and make the criticism myself, snce I may not see it from them.

They ALSO do the same thing in COLLEGE! They now have colleges that actually give extra points to those getting lower grades, so they pass with a decent grade. They THINK it helps the lower end people out, but it really devalues those earning higher grades.

They do the same thing in HIGHSCHOOLS now! Teachers teach students to pass the tests that are there to validate that the teachers have taught the students the required subjects. In a way, the teachers are forcing the students to cheat NOT ONLY for the students, but for the teachers as well!

BTW when I went to school, we were NOT allowed to have CALCULATORS, and MOST only did SIMPLE MATH! TODAY, MOST allow people to use what is actually a COMPUTER that is partially disabled. It can do a LOT!!!!!! OH, you need a FULL computer? Well, they DO have ANOTHER calculator that is NOT disabled, that is almost IDENTICAL! Afraid you'll get caught? A company makes an overlay that will make the FULL version look like the disabled one!

When I was in highschool, I don't even know if such a calculator existed! I mean one that can plot all sorts of graphs and handle algebraic equations, and solve them...

Steve

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Backlinks4U

12 years ago

Oh my goodness.

It's hard to believe that is the future of America.

I too fear for my country.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

When I was in highschool, I don't even know if such a calculator existed! I mean one that can plot all sorts of graphs and handle algebraic equations, and solve them...

Steve

Yeah...the TI (2500?) "pocket" calculator was like 225.00 (on sale!) when it came out - you can get one that probably does the same thing and more at the dollar store now...:p

Speaking of "new learning"...did anyone see this girl this week on you tube that can say a word backwards as well as forward? When asked how she does it (not savantism) she said when she reads a word she reads it forward and backward, and she can picture it in her mind that way...it's just something she has always done as a habit...I guess it could come in handy for something...getting stopped by a cop for DWI or ??? But still pretty amazing...

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Yeah...the TI (2500?) "pocket" calculator was like 225.00 (on sale!) when it came out - you can get one that probably does the same thing and more at the dollar store now...:p

Speaking of "new learning"...did anyone see this girl this week on you tube that can say a word backwards as well as forward? When asked how she does it (not savantism) she said when she reads a word she reads it forward and backward, and she can picture it in her mind that way...it's just something she has always done as a habit...I guess it could come in handy for something...getting stopped by a cop for DWI or ??? But still pretty amazing...

Well, trying to remember it both ways COULD help to remember it, ESPECIALLY if you visualize. I wonder if she flips the letters ALSO!

Steve

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bravo75

12 years ago

Not to worry. Obama is monitoring the situation.

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seasoned 12 years ago

All I will say is that someone could ask the "marine corpse" to take care of the problem in the 58. Those students DID give values of 48,50,51,52 and, I think, jokingly 53.

Oh well, two areas ARE campaigning to be states. One is a possession and one is a district which was technically NEVER to become a state. If it became a state, it would render a whole section of the constitution meaningless, etc.... Still, they ARE trying to do all they can to ACT like a state. They even have their own licenseplates and motto ("no taxation without representation") A number of BAD schools kept old text books, even till at least 1980 that said there were only 48 states. Until about 1959 there WERE only 48 states. For whatever reason, that very year, alaska and hawaii BOTH became states.

BTW YOU heard me right! 1980!!!!!!! 1980-1959=21 SO, for at least 21 years, some schools had STILL not changed their books!

So I guess a case COULD be made for 48, 51, or 52 being correct answers even though, last I knew, we were STILL at 50.

Steve
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HeySal

12 years ago

Sure kids need to be interested to be taught - but since the board of education was introduced, there have been so many rules shoved down teacher's throats that they have to be completely PC at all times. For instance, my sister is an art teacher. One of her students asked her why the nude sculptures of certain eras always had such small penises. My sister explained that, thinking knowledge is important - the reason was that the culture felt it dignified, no big deal eh? She could have actually been fired for it. How bout economics teachers who aren't allowed to tell the truth about the FED money system? How about political science teacher not being allowed to teach the moves toward fascism that our own country is undergoing?

When teachers aren't allowed to teach anything that the government doesn't find convenient to allow them to teach, there is no real education. Subjects have to cover only the side of propaganda that is allowed. If we were to wipe out the board of education and go back to old fashioned education, we'd find a big change again. All schools are teaching now is what kids are supposed to think - they do not, and are not allowed to teach HOW to think - and that is more than just a little bit of a problem. You do not need schools to socialize children. There are a myriad ways to socialize children. Under the board of education, though, socialization is the ONLY thing that is concentrated upon. It's dangerous, it's fascist, and it is outrageous that parents allow it to continue.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

"They even have their own licenseplates and motto ("no taxation without representation")

Surely you must be joking...right Steve?

D.C. wants to become a state...with that for a State motto?

Wouldn't a better motto be: "If it ain't broke - don't fix it - So we broke it - now we can't fix it."

or how about: "It takes money to make money - and your money is our money."

Or something that fits on a license: "Corporations are People too" - "State of Confusion" - "The Gimme State" - "Give Me Liberty, Give Me Your Money"

All are more true to their charter...

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Kurt

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Surely you must be joking...right Steve?

D.C. wants to become a state...with that for a State motto?

Wouldn't a better motto be: "If it ain't broke - don't fix it - So we broke it - now we can't fix it."

or how about: "It takes money to make money - and your money is our money."

Or something that fits on a license: "Corporations are People too" - "State of Confusion" - "The Gimme State" - "Give Me Liberty, Give Me Your Money"

All are more true to their charter...

Corporations will be people only after Texas executes one.

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HeySal 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Corporations will be people only after Texas executes one.

They can start with MONSANTO.
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Sal
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MoneyMagnetMagnate 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

Corporations will be people only after Texas executes one.

I heard Bill Moyers say his friend told him that...LOL! it's Perfect!

I'm reading a new book, "Corporations are not People" by Jeffrey Clements - good read on the subject...

I've got one more..."The Buy Me State" :rolleyes:
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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Surely you must be joking...right Steve?

D.C. wants to become a state...with that for a State motto?

Wouldn't a better motto be: "If it ain't broke - don't fix it - So we broke it - now we can't fix it."

or how about: "It takes money to make money - and your money is our money."

Or something that fits on a license: "Corporations are People too" - "State of Confusion" - "The Gimme State" - "Give Me Liberty, Give Me Your Money"

All are more true to their charter...

I wish I WERE joking! They DO want to become a state, and believe they ARE one, outside of legally treated as one by whatever power supercedes the federal, if you know what I mean. And that IS the motto they have on their license plates. License plates are usually issued ****ONLY**** by STATES in the US! When I remarked on the stupid slogan that might ONCE have been true but really isn't now, a resident of DC said that it was their way of saying that since they are taxed, they should have representation in the federal government. That area was set aside to be a GOVERNMENT area. Maybe they should treat it as such if they don't like it. Frankly, I AM surprised they can't simply vote with their state. The land covers virginia, Deleware, and maryland.

BTW the possession is puerto rico.

BTW a corporation has been called a person under the law for DECADES! Perhaps for all of it's history. It has the rights and obligations of a person. Of course, not being a "natural person"(legal term), it is treated like an incompetent natural person. The CEO, in a way, is it's main guardian, and treated as such. If it were a real(NATURAL) incompetent person, it could not subject its guardian to debts, and the guardian would not comingle assets. A corporation works in the same way.

So saying that corporations are people too may seem bad or wrong, but it IS a legally correct statement.

Steve

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

12 years ago

So...bankruptcy is in effect, plutocracide - we should make that illegal...
I mean, ironically, suicide is illegal - if you are successful, you could go to jail for that...

And since it seems a corporation could conceivably go bankrupt every day if they wanted to...they got a lot of 'splainin' to do Lucy...

And we can't even go into all the "start-ups" that fail...

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

So...bankruptcy is in effect, plutocracide - we should make that illegal...
I mean, ironically, suicide is illegal - if you are successful, you could go to jail for that...

And since it seems a corporation could conceivably go bankrupt every day if they wanted to...they got a lot of 'splainin' to do Lucy...

And we can't even go into all the "start-ups" that fail...

Bankruptcy IS supposed to be limited. Bankruptcy with a company works just like it would with a ward. THEY pay the debts.

Steve

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maxi

12 years ago

Glad to see so many people realizing there's a problem with our educational system. If you want to know why, go on YouTube and watch a video by Charlotte Iserbyt. She was head of planning for the Dept. of Ed under Reagan. It will be a well-worth eye opener to people. In fact, it is a must watch video. Students are not being taught on purpose. - And the Koch Brothers are not the responsible people. Look up UN Agenda 21. A good site for that is: democratsagainstunagenda21 dot com

The end game: You'll have to figure that out yourself of PM me.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Maxi,

This problem is an OLD one! Look at VERY old first grade books, and it is OBVIOUS it is an OLD problem. I saw it get worse even as I was going through school.

At one point, I couldn't take drivers ed because of a SCAM! Public workers shut down SUPPOSEDLY because of proposition 13! I was in maybe the first generation in a LONG time that had to have PRIVATE drivers ed classes! It wasn't JUST teachers, but they DID shut down classes, including drivers ed. Because the teachers treasured POLITICS over their jobs!

LATER, my generation was the first in that state that could NOT use "graduation" to get a diploma. So WHY graduate? It allowed us to take a battery of tests! You only REALLY graduated after passing those tests. WHY? Because SO many people graduated without having learned the subject matter! Apparently, this has since caught on. A number of states, perhaps all, have such tests. It USED to be that passing the classes meant you would graduate with a diploma.

But you know what? LONG before that, a college found that they could NOT trust such things, so THEY created an entrance exam. At somepoint, it caught on. THEY don't handle that test anymore, at least directly. NOW, it is a general test that MOST colleges look at, and it is called the SAT!

But BEFORE THAT there was a decline. It is incredible. Some now argue that you shouldn't even need to learn a lot of this stuff because it is "on the net"!

They NO LONGER even teach cursive! The whole basis of signatures, is ALREADY becomming meaningless!

Steve

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