(GID) Youngest In Britain To Be Diagnosed With Gender Identity Disorder (GID)

64 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
story and pics here...

Zach Avery, 4, Is Among Youngest In Britain To Be Diagnosed With Gender Identity Disorder (GID)
  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    It's good that the child is not being bullied in school. There will definitely a lot of challenges ahead for child and parents.
    Signature

    Project HERE.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5672876].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Thunderbird,

    They seem to be going out of their way to shield Zach, and Zach is still young. SO, like the US economy, TOO EARLY to know ANYTHING!

    And I HAVE heard of ways that a male fetus may not change into a male, and the chances of that happening today are THOUSANDS of times greater than a couple decades ago, I haven't heard of any way the reverse could really happen. So you would think that GID would happen in GIRLS more. It is interesting that it doesn't, according to this article.

    By default, a fetus would become a girl. It turns out that, until puberty, there wouldn't be any real way to really notice a difference.

    Outside of wanting to cut his willy off, you would think that maybe he just doesn't understand. I mean dora the explorer is a cartoon character and doesn't do anything a boy couldn't do, as far as exploring, etc.... Ironically though, if he cut his willy off, the last stage of the transition would be a LOT more difficult, etc...

    BTW I'm using willy because it was used THERE, and seems a bit less, well...

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5673029].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Thunderbird,

      They seem to be going out of their way to shield Zach, and Zach is still young. SO, like the US economy, TOO EARLY to know ANYTHING!<snip>
      I'm not qualified to judge. Whatever the case may be, that child could all too easily become the target of harsh bullying. Undoubtedly the parents and child will be demonized in some sectors, if it is not already happening.

      I'll admit that I am of a live and let live attitude by default. I don't hate gays, lesbians, or transgendered people. I only occasionally see them from a distance for the most part.
      Signature

      Project HERE.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5673114].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    I'm a male, and when I was four I didn't think I was a girl.

    When I was four I actually thought I was a wookie. And I wanted my parents to call me Chewbacca. I suppose I had Species Identity Disorder (SID). It was really more like Fictional Species Identity Disorder (FSID).

    I'm glad that my parents set me straight. Otherwise I'd have started taking wookie hormones and I'd be covered in brown hair by now.

    Signature

    :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5674438].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

      I'm a male, and when I was four I didn't think I was a girl.

      When I was four I actually thought I was a wookie. And I wanted my parents to call me Chewbacca. I suppose I had Species Identity Disorder (SID). It was really more like Fictional Species Identity Disorder (FSID).

      I'm glad that my parents set me straight. Otherwise I'd have started taking wookie hormones and I'd be covered in brown hair by now.

      He may still have a few years before they do any hormone things. It will be interesting to see what they do. Will they just buy zach time? Will they start hormone therapy, or wait until 18?

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5674677].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        He may still have a few years before they do any hormone things. It will be interesting to see what they do. Will they just buy zach time? Will they start hormone therapy, or wait until 18?

        Steve
        I'd hate to see that they make decisions to mess with his hormones based on the 4 year old's belief that he is a girl. I'm not sure if their laws allow for that.
        Signature

        :)

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5675140].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author thompson322
    Let's just wait and see, let's just be happy on what Zach/Zachy wants to be in the future. I just hope that the world won't be cruel to him and accept him for who he is and what he can do. He's still a child, let him enjoy the moment.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5684996].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author skagenweb
    Oh lord. What is happening to our poor country. It is getting weirder and weirder every single day.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5685114].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SEOLee
    Aweful parents. When that kid get's to secondary school he will not have a fun time
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5685381].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Both the parents,whatever idiot diagnosed the child, and the child need extensive help
    Signature

    Read A Post.
    Subscribe to a Newsletter
    KimWinfrey.Com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5685999].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Kim,

    Yeah, I also feel something is really wrong there. You REALLY have to wonder here. But WHY would even a female in a male body try to cut the willy off. I mean think about it! It doesn't set things right! It doesn't make you identify with the other group any better. It doesn't help your life any. AND, as I said, ironically, it makes the prospects of a "sex change" operation less likely to have a good outcome.

    Yeah, I have to admit, I get curious when I hear people claiming currently impossible things, like "sex change" operations, and I researched it. But they obviously need a certain type of tissue, and nerves, and where else could they get them from.

    OK, so zacks actions are illinformed, unjustified, and just illogical, from either viewpoint. And WHY do all these kids seem to be going to such extremes? I mean extremes that a lot of GIRLS wouldn't do in such a case. How many girls go to school, or generally out in public even, with tootoos? Just ask a little girl why she is wearing one sometime, and it is probably because she was taking ballerina classes, some kind of dance class, in a play of some sort, or something similar, and NOT because she generally goes out that way. And it seems to be increasing. It is odd, because a lot of girls don't even wear dresses at this point.

    Outside of possible prodding by parents, or some kind of publicity stunt, or some WEIRD malady, the only thing I can think of is that he feels he would be better accepted as a girl, and is trying to push that. Perhaps he feels that somehow he can be easiy changed into a girl. Some kids have ideas that are really out there! BTW psychiatrists generally tell patients everything, and tell them to live some extended period as THAT sex, before recommendng to go any further. Zach really hasn't done ANY of that because at that age, with those special considerations, with the special treatment, etc... it just doesn't count. Now if he were twice the age, and in a school that didn't treat him ANY different, he would start to see what he is in for.

    To say dora the explorer triggered this is really out there too! So when will he start speaking spanish? That would be SO much easier than trying to become female! There are girls and women I have admired. It doesn't make me try to be one. And there are certainly men and even boys that girls and women have admired and I NEVER heard one express the desire to be male because of it.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5686472].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dunmo
    The child now needs alot of love and care never to be segregated or else it would cause alot of rejection to his par.Apart from that we need to pray for this generation alot.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5686572].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by dunmo View Post

      The child now needs alot of love and care never to be segregated or else it would cause alot of rejection to his par.Apart from that we need to pray for this generation alot.
      par?

      Without some sort of segregation, it would violate decency and/or a number of public laws. LATER, it could mean his DEATH! You think homosexuals have it bad? Generation? GENERATION? Don't put this on the generation! HECK, they want god to be ripped out of the picture anyway.

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5687006].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    This issue drives me nuts. I wonder how many people realize that the chemical sunscreens on the market, not to mention other products, have toxic crap in it that causes gender identity confusion. I see women slapping that stuff all over themselves then listen to them bitch about the "morals" of the youth today. Those kids with mommies that were sunscreen junkies then turn around and make their own child's life hell for their gender confusion should sue the pants off their parents.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688306].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      I'm flabbergasted, discombobulated even!

      The first word that comes to mind is, warped!

      I don't even know what to say! I personally believe the parents are wrong in not only allowing this on a daily basis, but exploiting it as well.

      Back in my day, kids who dressed in the "opposite sex" apparel were discouraged by their parents and ridiculed by their peers, with the exception of Halloween costumes or in drama or school plays.

      Oh, and I don't think that I'm the one who's warped here!

      Terra
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688406].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      This issue drives me nuts. I wonder how many people realize that the chemical sunscreens on the market, not to mention other products, have toxic crap in it that causes gender identity confusion. I see women slapping that stuff all over themselves then listen to them bitch about the "morals" of the youth today. Those kids with mommies that were sunscreen junkies then turn around and make their own child's life hell for their gender confusion should sue the pants off their parents.
      Not to mention the percentage rate of rickets occurring in children now. I've read that the numbers haven't been this high since the great depression and before sunscreen usage went over board, was extremely rare.

      Terra
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688452].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Banned
    I suppose if it was my son/daughter I'd support them.
    Signature
    "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688459].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

      I suppose if it was my son/daughter I'd support them.
      Are you saying that you'd support their delusions?
      Signature

      :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688474].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Banned
        P.S.

        They have enough trouble as it is without all of the "stigma" people express.
        Signature
        "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688483].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
          edit: I didn't see your post directly above this one

          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          P.S.

          They have enough trouble as it is without all of the “stigma” people express.
          What's the stigma you refer to? The stigma that is directed towards boys who think that they are girls? There's going to be stigma, if you want to call it that, just as there's going to be stigma towards guys named "Chuck" who believe that they are "Jesus, the son of God". When a person believes that they are someone or something they are not, others will notice that it's irrational.

          I disagree that the boy's delusion needs to be nurtured as it seems his parents are doing. If it were one of my sons, I would not give up on teaching the boy that he is a boy. I wouldn't yield to such nonsense and the postmodernist notion that a male is a female merely because he "feels that way" - feelings aren't facts.

          BTW, I wonder what you and others think about the guy in the video below. He thinks he's a woman, and he even competes in female bodybuilding competitions.


          Sometimes I think the world is going insane.
          Signature

          :)

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688519].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
            If there wasn't any true GID to begin with, there sure is now. What else is he to think as he sees himself with ponytails which no doubt he insisted he have, together with the clothing which he shopped for himself at Dorothy Perkins - all inspired by Dora the Explorer no less. The parents have made him this way.

            If he was inspired by frequent viewings of The Lion King, he could equally be dressed up in a Lion Suit every day to convince him that he's a lion....


            Daniel
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688628].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Banned
            I remember watching a documentary about boys wanting to be girls and they’re really unhappy, depressed, and miserable.
            Some of them are even suicidal. Why? Because many people are misjudging them and making them feel bad just for something they are
            Signature
            "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688663].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
              You can't judge what a 4 year old wants.

              They have barely found their ago and they are impressionable to absolutely everything.


              Daniel
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688712].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

        Are you saying that you'd support their delusions?
        Well I'm not sure.

        I've never been in that position before. I think children with GID would be that way no matter how much their parents' disagree (etc.)
        Signature
        "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688506].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author KimW
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          Well I'm not sure.

          I've never been in that position before. I think children with GID would be that way no matter how much their parents' disagree (etc.)
          I don't think children have GID except that induced by their parents seeking attention.
          Course,that brings up the still unanswered question,hereditary or environment.
          Signature

          Read A Post.
          Subscribe to a Newsletter
          KimWinfrey.Com

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689138].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      When I was close to that age, my mom says that I went through a phase where I'd play w/ barbies and tried to pretend to be a girl. I have a feeling that it's not really uncommon.

      But THANK GOODNESS my mom didn't behave like these imbeciles. She let me have my fun, but she knew that's all it was.

      What a mess these people are making for this poor kid.

      He's not even old enough to know if he likes girls yet or not. What are they going to do now if she's the only girl coming out of the school bathroom everyday w/ an erection? I only see trouble in the future here.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688615].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by garyv View Post

        When I was close to that age, my mom says that I went through a phase where I'd play w/ barbies and tried to pretend to be a girl. I have a feeling that it's not really uncommon.<snip>
        I've never heard of this with a straight dude, to be honest. Definitely a good illustration of your point. I once thought that kids could grow up to be different animals like those talking cartoons. I wanted to be an aardvark, and I am sure that is very common with young boys.
        Signature

        Project HERE.

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689718].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    Daniel's right. Children that age are at a very critical point in the development of their identity. Parents should guide their children rather than let the children lead.
    Signature

    :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688751].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well Johnathan, I just realized something. What haysal said, on its face, sounds a bit silly, Apparently, estrogen can NOT cross the blood brain barrier, but testosterone CAN! Apparently some enzyme in the brain changes testosterone to estrogen, and THAT changes the brain.

    NOW for the funny part! MANY products, INCLUDING suntan oils, contain estrogen analogues among those are ones called pythoestrogens. ANYWAY, they can compete with testosterone ***AND*** can flip a switch that turns OFF testosterone! So the changes that happen in the male fetus brain might not happen, or might be affected!

    YEAH, it IS confusing BUT......

    1. LH is released by ALL pituitaries.
    2. In females that triggers the ovaries to create mostly estrogen. The testicles create mostly testosterone.
    3. A certain amount of testosterone is converted to DHT. In a fetus, excess DHT triggers male physical primary sexual characteristics.
    4. After a certain amount of testosterone is created, ANOTHER enzyme changes it to ESTROGEN.
    5. A certain amount of estrogen triggers female secondary characteristics. THAT is why some bodybuilders taking anabolic steroids get breast tissue.
    6. A certain amount of testosterone can enter the fetal brain and an enxyme converts it to estrogen triggering male MENTAL characteristics.
    7. A certain amount of estrogen then stops the LH, and THAT is why body builders taking testosterone can have testicular atrophy. The estrogen says there is too much testosterone, which reduces LH which reduces testicular activity to produce testosterone. If the testosterone were all natural, the reduction would reduce testosterone, reducing estrogen and increasing LH.

    So even though the ingredients, at least from what I know would NOT DIRECTLY cause this, they WOULD trigger events that, at the right point, certainly COULD!

    And ALL these things must happen at a certain time! The physical primary sx characteristcs, for example, are obviously practically set in stone early. The mental ones may ALSO. In fact, there is a hormonal surge that happens in males even a few months AFTER birth. Last I heard, they were unsure as to WHY! IT could play a part. It may be best if women, and hopefully men, stay away from ANY artificial products AND estrogens, AND steroids, and so on for a couple months prior to conception to perhaps 6 months after birth!

    I ALREADY illustrated how estrogen, testosterone, and related elements can affect the fetus. cialis disables the enzyme that changes testosterone to DHT and is PROVEN to upset the mechanism that creates the male physical primary sex characteristics. It can ALSO upset secondary characteristics.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688776].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688822].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      It just scares me to think that this little boy looks to his parents for approval, wanting to please them. I know I did when I was little because I always felt happy with and loved by my parents' praise.

      So what if he was just trying something out due to curiosity and because of his parents support and approval continues on with it, all the while becoming more and more confused and miserable on the inside?

      That's what bothers me the most.

      Terra
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688876].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Banned
        I honestly think children decide what they like independent of their parents' suggestions.
        Signature
        "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688899].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        It just scares me to think that this little boy looks to his parents for approval, wanting to please them. I know I did when I was little because I always felt happy with and loved by my parents' praise.

        So what if he was just trying something out due to curiosity and because of his parents support and approval continues on with it, all the while becoming more and more confused and miserable on the inside?

        That's what bothers me the most.

        Terra
        What's actually wrong with at person being transgender?
        Signature
        "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689054].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
          Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

          What's actually wrong with at person being transgender?
          Why don't you explain what transgender means?

          Wikipedia doesn't even provide a straightforward answer. Here's the first sentence of the Wikipedia definition for transgender.

          Transgender (play /trænzˈdʒɛndər/) is a general term applied to a variety of individuals, behaviors, and groups involving tendencies to vary from culturally conventional gender roles.
          I have tendences that vary from culturally conventional gender roles. For instance, I like to cook, I enjoy watching Project Runway, and I sometimes cry during movies. I even own a pink polo shirt. Oh, and I don't watch football. I'm a man, BTW.

          So I must be transgender, according to Wikipedia, right?
          Signature

          :)

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689134].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
            Banned
            Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

            Why don't you explain what transgender means?


            Hi mohouju.

            You're not understanding the context at all. When the article says:

            “A general term applied to a variety of individuals, behaviours, and groups involving tendencies to vary from culturally conventional gender roles.”

            They basically mean (in context) anything
            that people find uncomfortable. Like a boy being transgender.
            Signature
            "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689173].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
              Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

              Hi mohouju.

              You're not understanding the context at all. When the article says:
              "A general term applied to a variety of individuals, behaviours, and groups involving tendencies to vary from culturally conventional gender roles."
              It basically means (in context) anything that people find uncomfortable. Like a boy being transgender.
              Great, you used the word transgender in your definition of transgender.:rolleyes:

              Here's a definition of the word blue

              blue: The color of things that are blue.

              Helpful?
              Signature

              :)

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689201].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                Banned
                Well there’s no reason to get personal, I'm just having a discussion.
                Signature
                "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689207].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
                  Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                  Well there's no reason to get personal, I'm just having a discussion.
                  Then just relax, and don't take things personally.

                  I think this is an interesting topic of discussion and I was hoping that you, for purposes of this discussion, could define transgender. It would help keep everyone on the same page.
                  Signature

                  :)

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689258].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
                    Banned
                    The page is to accept people for who they are.
                    Signature
                    "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689278].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
                      Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

                      The page is to accept people for who they are.
                      Myself, and I think this goes for most of those who've expressed opinions in this thread, accept the 4 year old and his parents. That's not to say that we agree with the ideas of the parents and the child regarding the child's belief that he is a girl.

                      I disagree with the notion that this boy is a "girl trapped inside the body of a boy" and I disagree with what seems to be the parents and the psychologist encouraging this attitude in the child, but I still accept the people.

                      Similarly, I may disagree with a parent who insists on teaching their child that the earth is flat, but that does not mean that I don't accept that parent or their child.
                      Signature

                      :)

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689420].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post


            I have tendences that vary from culturally conventional gender roles. For instance, I like to cook, I enjoy watching Project Runway, and I sometimes cry during movies. I even own a pink polo shirt. Oh, and I don't watch football. I'm a man, BTW.

            So I must be transgender, according to Wikipedia, right?

            Oh no, Mojo! You're not!

            You have just described a lot of the traits of my husband, and I can guarantee you that he is 100% man!:p

            Terra
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689360].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Oh no, Mojo! You're not!

              You have just described a lot of the traits of my husband, and I can guarantee you that he is 100% man!:p

              Terra
              Well, I recall you recently posting pictures of his drag racer (did I say Drag? ), so I think that's manly enough for him to retain his man card. It's enough to offset any stereotypically feminine traits he may have.
              Signature

              :)

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689440].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

                Well, I recall you recently posting pictures of his drag racer (did I say Drag? ), so I think that's manly enough for him to retain his man card. It's enough to offset any stereotypically feminine traits he may have.

                Haha, I see your point, but trust me he has other feminine traits you haven't listed like talking on the phone! He can out talk me any day of the week and twice over on weekends.

                But I guess you're right in his "manly" attributes far surpassing his feminine ones.

                Terra
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689551].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
                Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

                Well, I recall you recently posting pictures of his drag racer (did I say Drag? ), so I think that's manly enough for him to retain his man card. It's enough to offset any stereotypically feminine traits he may have.
                The leak-checker wears the pink on that crew...
                Signature
                Professional Googler
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689887].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post

                  The leak-checker wears the pink on that crew...

                  Why yes, yes she does.



                  But don't worry, I won't start wearing a jock strap because being a crew chief is a predominantly male thing. :p

                  Terra
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5690115].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688883].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      Banned
      Yes. You posted it three times Steve. : )
      Signature
      "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688911].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    I think it is interesting that being a girl is associated with pink tutus and long pigtails. There are actually girls who hate pink and don't play with dolls. They'd rather play with 'boy toys' but they don't want to be boys.

    It is a question to which I have never found a satisfactory answer. I do believe there are differences between the two sexes but they are much more complex than toy and color preferences.

    Why do so many little girls like pink? Could it be because we start shoving it in their faces from birth? Along with the Disney Princesses ad nauseum.

    And I love Steve's reasoning... if Dora the Explorer is his idol, why doesn't he strive to speak other languages.

    Pink tee shirt aside, I think Dora embodies positive attributes that would appeal to both sexes; family, adventure, patience, sports and musical activities.

    The only way a child could have GID is if we define what makes a girl or a boy. The more of a blur that is and the more tolerance for children exploring who they are, the more likely they are to grow up to what they would best be.

    Here is another interesting viewpoint of a very close topic:

    Raising a Genderless Child: Possible? : Discovery News
    Signature
    The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of nonessentials. ~ Lin Yutang
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5688999].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    leelee,

    I mentioned the language because, as I recall, dora is spanish, and speaks spanish.

    Yeah, some of the evolution of clothing I just DON'T understand. My favorite color HAPPENS to be blue. I like a lot of nice dresses that women/girls wear, but it has to do with how it looks on THEM NOT any desire to wear them. Likewise, a lot of women ARE, excuse the pun "pretty in pink". I have no idea how the average woman feels about all of that though.

    But, like it or not, Males and Females ARE inately different. In ALL cultures and ALL species, they are different! OFTEN they have some of the same differences.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689123].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    WTF is wrong with this world? :rolleyes:

    Like a child that young knows right from wrong.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689180].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689312].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    There are aspects to the story that strike me as odd:
    1. "Mum Theresa Avery, 32, said her son used to be a 'normal' little boy who loved Thomas the Tank Engine, but suddenly at the end of 2010, he decided he wanted to live as a girl." Why is the phase when he's a normal little boy considered less of a deciding factor than when he started to imagine he was a girl? Why the sudden assumption that this is a permanent phase when the other one wasn't permanent?
    2. The kid is still practically a baby. How is it possible to so strongly determine his identity yet?
    3. Where is the second opinion? Usually an extreme diagnosis like this should get a 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th opinion from other doctors and institutions. This is a kids' whole life we're referring to. I once had a stretched exterior cruciate ligament in my knee when I was a teenager. A doctor and other experts at his clinic determined that I should get the ligament replaced with an artificial part. We went and got other opinions from different doctors/clinics. They mostly said, do some exercises to tighten up the knee. I opted for the exercises, and many years later my knee is still fine now without an artificial appendage. I wonder what other doctors/clinics would say about this child?
    Signature

    Project HERE.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689391].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    Being a boy or a girl is not something you choose. How hard is that to teach to a child? I have two boys and they understand that they are boy humans and that no matter how they feel, they will always be boys and humans.

    It's never too early to teach a child the difference between what's real and what's imaginary. Why are some parents unable to teach this difference to their children?
    Signature

    :)

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689780].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
      Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

      The child is not making any choice. They are just being themselves. No different to someone with a religion or a fan of a particular sports team.

      The only choice the parents have made is to allow the behaviour rather than resist it.
      You may disagree, but I happen to believe that everything people do, even thinking, is a conscious or subconscious choice. But whether or not a boy believing himself to be a girl is a choice is not the point I was making.

      My point was about the subjective belief the boy has that he is a girl versus the objective reality that he is a boy, and that it's important for children to be able to distinguish between what is real and what is imaginary. It seems that his parents are not beneficial in teaching him this.
      Signature

      :)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5690050].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

      The child is not making any choice. They are just being themselves. No different to someone with a religion or a fan of a particular sports team.
      Both those examples are choices.


      Daniel
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5691142].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    re: Jackie

    Why is a 10 year old wearing makeup and dressing like a hoochie? I'd be a lot more concerned about that than what sex s/he thinks s/he is.
    Signature
    The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of nonessentials. ~ Lin Yutang
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689870].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Thunderbird,

    Good point! Although I don't see how thomas the tank is necessarily masculine, he didn't seem to think about being a girl. I liked girls for as long as I can recall, which CERTAINLY goes back to 4, and I was fine with being male. And apparently things change around like 8 and 13. So what is so special with FOUR? I can't think of ANYTHING, biologically that could explain that!

    On the OTHER hand, I have heard of kids saying that they wanted to even be INANNIMATE objects when they grow up. I guess I could understand how such a person could simply want to be another sex. BUT, when they grow up, those people no longer want to be some inannimate object. Personally, I never understood that. I always wanted to be an electronic engineer. I was on my way, but later decided computers were better.

    HOW does a 4yo come to even see gender as a choice? WHY is it so important?

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5689875].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Sunfyre7896
    This is a perfect example of societal influence through a diagnosis that shouldn't happen. 4 year olds don't know enough about the world or society to substantiate a diagnosis of this level. This is another push toward a political agenda to to sell some prescription drugs. All 4 year olds mostly know is some colors, numbers, basic reading, but not how the world works or what is beyond the most elementary of gender roles. They play with their toys and dress how their parents dress them.

    If there's any disorder and confusion it's on the parents for making it so complex. This was never an issue until the last few years. It makes me sick that things like this are pushed on kids as if growing up wasn't complex enough.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5690006].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Originally Posted by Chris Kent View Post

    I know if I had a child with GID (which is not the same as being a tomboy, it is a world apart),
    I've KNOWN a number of tomboys. My mother said SHE was one! You wouldn't know it to look at old pictures of her, etc... They were ALL straight and HAPPY with being female! They were simply not happy with being limited in the way many females WERE! By those standards many girls TODAY might be considered tomboys even though today the base ideas are COMMON!!!!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5690130].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      I've KNOWN a number of tomboys. My mother said SHE was one! You wouldn't know it to look at old pictures of her, etc... They were ALL straight and HAPPY with being female! They were simply not happy with being limited in the way many females WERE! By those standards many girls TODAY might be considered tomboys even though today the base ideas are COMMON!!!!

      Steve
      I was a tomboy growing up climbing trees, shooting marbles, playing sports, racing motorcycles and snowmobiles, etc. And still am to some degree even now, but I love my femininity as well and indulge myself in girlie-girl stuff all the time.

      There is a huge difference between the two!

      Terra
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5690169].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    As far as 4 year olds go -- if someone had been diagnosing me as a kid, they would have surely called me transgender. I played with boys toys, carried a jack knife, hiked, played boys games, and was a complete daddy's little guy in every way. Then I grew up and I dare say you won't find a man I've ever been close to agreeing that there's a hint of man in me.

    Tell the kid he's a boy - show him what boy's roles are, and worry about it when he's old enough to really be certain he's not just having a kid thing. Then if it does turn out he's transgender, gay, or whatever.....accept what you can't change. Do what the deities of a certain religion did and chock it up to "free will" and act like the messiah and find forgiveness if you think it's completely wrong.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5690188].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, Jackie seems to pull it off. I hate to say it, but females get hair under the arms TOO! And breasts are ironically the simplest part. Estrogen would do THAT! Gee, if THAT is all jackie wants!

    And NO, Boys WON'T be girls! Maybe SOME will APPEAR to be. The day ALL do, you can start counting down the days till the human species is GONE! Oh well, if they start out soon enough they can at least be closer to girls in appearance and socially, but that denies them the choice really.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5690241].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
    When you are in kindergarten, boys will play with girls and vice versa. It is only when you get to primary school that boys will prefer to stick with boys and girls with girls. I cannot see how Gender Identity Disorder can be diagnosed with certainty at this age.

    If he insists on being a girl, why can't he just use the girl's toilet. Surely, if he uses a urinal, that would not be "natural" for a girl.

    The other pupils and parents at the kindergarten would not have known about this if his parents have not sold his story to the tabloids. Now he has been outed, there is a real chance that he will be subjected to merciless bullying later on.
    Signature

    Do not get between a wombat and a chocolate biscuit; you will regret it dearly!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5691408].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Derek,

    Good point! If he IS straight(though it appears doubtful, WHO KNOWS), he will be denied the ability to have a straight relationship, and maybe any enjoyment, and YEP, couldn't use the urinal in the way most males are accustomed. Also, he couldn't have any kids. If he is interested in sports and the like, the lines will probably be MUCH longer! Does he know any of that? Probably not. There IS a LOT to consider. Most of it males can really only imagine. He won't experience ALL of the changes to his lifestyle until the very end.

    I once went to a HUGE event that had men and women, and a woman actually stopped me to ask me what the secret was! The women had MORE restrooms, and yet they STILL had to wait in long lines, and the mens restrooms seemed to have less traffic. Women got SO fed up, in california, that they passed a law that women could use mens restrooms in some circumstances! BTW, there are probably over 5 reasons! 2 are physical, meaning men often go faster and less often.(urinals, and going an average of 20% less often) At least 2 are cultural causing women to take longer.(makeup, and the idea of going together) I believe there is another reason that slows down some women.(some clothing) It certainly isn't a conspiracy though.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5691604].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well, at any rate. If the little guy turns out to grow up and be a real guy - he can always turn things around by suing the snot out of Mommy and Daddy and selling the story in the news so everyone will know he was just an abused little boy.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5695532].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Well, at any rate. If the little guy turns out to grow up and be a real guy - he can always turn things around by suing the snot out of Mommy and Daddy and selling the story in the news so everyone will know he was just an abused little boy.
      It IS interesting though. If he decides to take the anti puberty drugs, he may end up shorter, and not develop as well as he would, if he changes his mind. If he doesn't take them, and doesn't change his mind, then he would have to have more surgery and it will be rougher.

      Most kids never even CONSIDER this, and most end up OK. HE has this decision shoved into his face! Kim Petra actually pushed to have them change the law so such changes could be made. Still, at 16 for a girl, that may have been MEDICALLY OK. But the idea of majority, YIKES. Generally, they don't allow kids to make any legal decisions, and don't allow parents to make decisions for the child unless they are justified.

      And you heard on the clip about kim petra how the willy was used. Imagine the trouble if they couldn't use that.

      BTW I'm sure you heard about the two twin boys. Some QUACK gave them a circumcision. ONE boy ended up with his willy irreperably DAMAGED! So what did the doctor do? Castrated him, gave him a sex change operation, and prescribed ESTROGEN! He even wrote a BOOK about how SEX was a MYTH, and he CHANGED THE SEX! The boy later wanted a sex change operation to become a man!

      David Reimer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5695756].message }}

Trending Topics