Friends or loved ones believe in 2012 doomsday? Read up - Important

by HeySal
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With only 10 months to go til the supposed "end of the world" I thought we should address something a little serious about this prophecy - true believers and end of the world cults.

While most of us realize that the whole Mayan Prophecy is nothing but a hoax, there are people that really and truly believe we are all doomed on that date. The thing I find unsettling about that is that there are some Cult leaders who are teaching people to get ready to ascend. I had a roommate who was a follower of one of these charlatons.

Now the "Guru" understood enough of Mayan philosophy to know they had a deep and serious relationship with energy. This guy had a bunch of nice little convincing charts for his followers so they could map out what their energy for each day and week, etc. was going to be and how they should dress, eat, and activities they should be pursuing on each day of the week. The ultimate goal was to increase their awareness and energy vibration so they would be sure to "ascend" on Dec. 12, 2012.

Now, I'm not one to tell anyone how to run their lives, and don't care what kind of freakazoid philosophies they want to hold near and dear, but there is something I want to remind people about here real quick. Jim Jones. You remember him? He was the religious cult nutcase that acquired a mass of followers then got them to either willingly or via force to drink poisoned kool-aid and commit mass suicide.

Now that's what is bringing me to this post. There are a lot of people out there following doomsday leaders right now. If you know anyone who is following one, you might want to check in to what is going on with that group. This would be the perfect opportunity for another cult nutbag to set up a mass death of their faithful followers. You may actually know someone in a cult that is preparing for a mass suicide - and if you get the facts before hand and can reach that person, you might actually be saving their life.

Watch the people you know that seem to be deeply wound up in 2012 prophecy real closely. Get the facts on what the real archaeologists say about the calendar and drill it into their heads and hit them with it very hard. Don't take it for granted that they are just dabbling with something that people will just laugh off the day after. For some of those deeply enough involved with a doomsday cult - there may not BE a day after. You need to reach them as fast as possible. It can take time to debrief a brainwashed person, so act now. Don't just wait to see if they will "snap out of it." Don't let any of your friends or loved ones be one of those for whom that day actually is the end of the world.
  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
    Good work HeySal. It's important to educate people that are lost.
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  • Profile picture of the author wirelessgeek
    I do kind of feel sorry for those guys but you can't always avoid the nutcases. If one of them starts talking to me about this, I'm pretty likely to walk away whistling. In fact, I just heard someplace that the Mayan calendar didn't allow for leap years, so technically the world should have ended sometime last month or something like that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
      I'm 99% certain the World won't end anytime soon. Certainly not in our lifetimes. : )
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  • Profile picture of the author icegin
    I have always looked at the 2012 doomsday prophecy with faint amusement -- your post has made me realise that some people really believe in it and the potential consequences of this belief can be very serious. I don't personally know anyone who follows the idea but I hope that those who do will really keep an eye out and, if at all possible, will try convince the person(s) in question not to do anything drastic.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Thanks for bringing this to everyones attention Sal. As soon as I started reading this, I was visualizing the whole Jim Jone's scene in my head - before you even mentioned his name.

    We have a group here, less than a mile from my place that needs careful watching. I will get others (that spend their summers here) involved come summertime.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    2 true Sal.

    I happen to be watching 'Doomsday Preppers' - different vignettes about families and the various ways they are going to prepare for the end.

    This IS the perfect scenario/climate for all kinds of delusions - because there is always a 'seed' of possibility to all the 'predictions'. But remember it is also possible to get hit by a bus tomorrow. You have to live your life.

    Thankfully nobody has mentioned Mayan prophecies or religious predictions - one lady living sterilized for coming pandemic - one family moving to the hills because of the pole shift and flooding - one trucker prepared to defend his truck being hijacked and another family with food to feed an army and a fleet of attack dogs.

    Now these last two are scary because they are about the impending economic collapse and they mention how even before the total collapse expected, 900 some odd semi-trucks are hijacked every year and contents stolen for close to a billion dollars.

    It is a real possibility as are all the other scenarios.

    But the end of the world? Possible too - but what are you going to do about that? No amount of tin foll, potassium iodine, German Shepherds or stockpiles of rice will help one damn bit. Buck up - when they pull the rug out, we are all going.

    ...so have fun, live your life, and stay away from fear mongering weirdos and false prophets.

    (I have to admit I do fear native terrorists (like the kids on the corner) and rampant slash and grab, etc if the economy continues to implode).

    ... and yes it is looking more logical to move out of urban and suburban areas and out to 'nowhere' with a loaded shot gun.

    p.s. (the program also mentions the radiation fall out from the Japanese Tsunami being found in everything in California (soil, water, etc) now, albeit at 'safe' levels (pardon me while I barf, look who is telling us what is safe - the same ones that approved xanax as safe and whatever weird drugs half the population is addicted to LEGALLY that are causing thousands of deaths?) well i will sleep better tonight knowing they are on top of things.

    ... anyway, 'eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we will die' - one way or the other sooner or later -hopefully later.

    Godspeed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nerohawk
    This is true, no one truly knows when the end of the world will be so the best way to deal with it is to simply get on with your daily lives.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Pat - there are a lot of possibilities, that's true, but the ones that usually go to the suicide pacts are the cults that work from a religious angle. I don't worry about people in survival groups - they are banding to make sure that they get through it all. It's the cults that are preparing people for "the end" that need to be watched. For some reason or other they sometimes like to make sure it happens whether or not it turns out to be on the actual agenda of reality on our plane or not.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      I have a friend who's waiting for the "rapture". When I tried in the past to gently reason with her about the topic, she insisted she's right, and I'm wrong. She got rather testy about it, so I dropped it.

      It's very hard to help someone when their mind is closed.

      I can only hope that people come to their senses before anyone gets hurt.
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    • Profile picture of the author GT
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      ... It's the cults that are preparing people for "the end" that need to be watched. For some reason or other they sometimes like to make sure it happens whether or not it turns out to be on the actual agenda of reality on our plane or not.
      I think the above quoted portion of Sal's comments is the essence of this topic thread: We need to be aware of and cautious about Doomsday cults (2012 or otherwise). These are cults or cult leaders who proclaim special knowledge of the end of the world and who deceive and harm others with their misdirected beliefs. Nobody can prophecy the date of the end of the world.

      Personally, I believe, with strong conviction, in the apocalypse and rapture as described in the (Christian) Bible. This could happen in 2012, or it may not. We can't know. Personally, I do not believe it will happen this year. But it could.

      As a Christian with firm, Bible-based spiritual beliefs, I just want to say that there is a distinction between religious fanaticism and true spiritual conviction. I realize that there can sometimes be a fine line between the two and the interpretation of it is subject to the perspective of the individual.

      But I do not believe that an enlightened Christian who has truly accepted Christ as Lord and Saviour and who has prayerfully studied biblical scripture and who honours and respects God will be willingly deceived by doomsayers and religious cult leaders.

      However, whether or not we hold to Christian beliefs, I do agree with Sal that we need to be especially watchful for circumstances and situations where loved ones and friends seem to be falling prey to Doomsday doctrines. Tragedies have occurred in the past and the potential does exist for them to happen again. Especially in 2012.

      GT
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        I actually believe this: there will be a spiritual awakening...

        the end of evil on earth. And we'll all be alive to talk about it and rejoice.

        That is what I want for our beautiful world.

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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    This is all Prophesied.

    People don't want to believe the truth so instead they believe a lie. It just depends on us which lie we want to believe as far as how much karma we will end up paying.

    In fact this is just one of the many prophecies that have come true or are now unfolding.

    It is the face of evil - the truth is hidden behind an illusion of lies. Whether we believe or don't believe we can be tricked.

    The real story is we are not going anywhere. The evil will be removed and there will be a 'new heaven and a new earth'.

    That is evil people, evil governments, evil conditions will not exist.

    Believe it or not - if it is true it will happen

    Again, no matter where we think we can hide (in a bunker or in disbelief) it will happen if it's true.

    All the stuff in between 'earthquakes, wars and rumors of wars' are all just sidebars.

    so sure - protect yourself if you can.

    In the end it won't matter either way though.

    We will get what we deserve.
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    Just to be clear, there are many people who believe in the idea of ascension, and connect it to 12/21/2012 who are not Jim Jones style cult leaders. Personally, I'm open to the idea myself, though I wouldn't go as far as to say I believe in it. Nor do I follow any particular gurus and I certainly don't belong to any cults. Many people define ascension to mean something similar to enlightenment in Eastern religions. Some do believe that there will be some kind of mass ascension at the end of this year (which doesn't mean mass suicides), but many others think that it's more of a gradual thing, that human evolution will speed up due to cosmic influences.

    There's nothing intrinsically crazier about the idea of ascension than any other spiritual or religious beliefs, whether going to heaven, reincarnation or reaching enlightenment. Certainly, some people are exploiting the whole 2012 idea for various reasons, and I'm sure there are some bona fide cults out there. But there are also cults based on all other kinds of ideas too.

    2012 may indeed prove to be a significant year. The idea of it being the end of the world was only a sensationalistic view promoted by Hollywood. But there's plenty of serious research on it that suggest it could be a turning point.
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  • Profile picture of the author Craftisy
    I don't believe in this personally, but people can believe what they want to believe.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Thanks GT - that was exactly my point. I really don't give a rip who believes what. I just don't want to see anyone in here coming in totally devastated on Dec 22nd because someone they love got into a suicide pact with some group over it. Prophecies of this size have a way of making stuff like that happen. I just wanted to wake people up to the fact that some of the groups out there might not be all that safe right now. Better to be sharp and aware than suffer the grief and guilt that you didn't see it coming once it's too late.
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    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    There ARE several ways that the world could effectively end in 2012. Like it or not, hoax or not, ****MOST**** ****ARE**** in play! Even things that 5 years ago would not have been DREAMT of! Most people talking about them NEVER breath of the mayan prophesies, and most probably believe they are BUNK! But if I told you that you would die next year of marfans syndrome, and you knew that there was 100% chance that you WOULDN'T, would you REALLY care? Would you REALLY scoff at it, etc... if you found that some murderer lived next door to you, and was looking for people, that looked like you, to kill, a gangster had a contract out on you, a partially blind and senile person just moved in next to you, and LOVES driving, etc....? There are SO many ways you could die! Do you REALLY care if it is not via marfans?

    BTW I don't have marfans syndrome, and I STILL succumbed to a problem THEY often have. GO FIGURE!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      10 years I spent as a volunteer working as a cult mind deprogrammer and exit counselor. You would not believe some of the daft thought patterns which go through some people's minds.

      Heysal isn't exaggerating. Sadly, far from it.

      I've personally lost many of my friends over the years to cult mind control (suicide). I should know, I was brought up in one, brainwashed some would say from birth, since I was born into a well known cult/sect 3rd generation.
      It's my number one area of expertise.

      But let me tell you now, the money is bloody awful if you're thinking of taking the niche up lol.

      Talking of which... I've never ever known a more useless subject in my entire life. And I know it inside out. At one time I was in the top ten in the United Kingdom for my very extensive knowledge on cults and how they use emotional triggers within the mind to bring new prospects in and to trap them there where they can control their every mood, actions and thought processes.

      Techniques I'm absolutely loathe to using in copywriting. I won't even go there.

      Of course, I've seen some of the people online and offline as well, all talking about the end of the world occuring on December 21st 2012. A load of poppycock but there we go. Unfortunately, there are tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands even millions of people who fall for this nonsense. It's actually a lot easier than you might think to brainwash someone especially when they're feeling emotionally vulnerable.

      You see cults and sects tend to prey on people when they're feeling emotionally weak and need support and they love using fear as a weapon. Cult leaders and followers will often try to take advantage of others when individuals are at their lowest point. Befriending them, love bombing them and drip feeding just enough information at a time to bring them slowly and surely around to their way of thinking.

      If you notice anyone suddenly bahaving a little out of character, disassociating themselves from activities, friends or family and quickly moving around a new circle of 'friends' this could be a warning sign. Watch out for it.

      I've helped with this website in the past, it's very good and contains a lot of very useful information how to recognize the signs of a cult and their psychological brainwashing techniques.

      It's run by an old friend of mine Randy Watters at Freeminds.org

      (I deleted the links going straight to the site because his targeted keywords target one specific religious group and religion is of course banned here, so out of respect so as not to have the thread deleted, I removed these links).

      Just copy and paste this into a new browser window...

      Freeminds.org

      Check out some of the other articles under the Articles tab on the navigation bar. There's a section or two dedicated to mind control, psychology etc. A lot of this knowledge can be cross-applied to many other similar doomsday armageddon type cults.

      Best,


      Mark Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author LarryC
        << 10 years I spent as a volunteer working as a cult mind deprogrammer and exit counselor. You would not believe some of the daft thought patterns which go through some people's minds. >>

        No doubt. But to some extent, the whole idea of a cult is subjective, based on what's popular in a particular society. For example, the beliefs of one mainstream religion will sound cultlike to someone who doesn't believe in it. Christianity was a cult until it became the dominant religion. Many of the things we take for granted today are quite bizarre if you really think about them. So cults can be weird and dangerous, but so can mainstream beliefs.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

          << 10 years I spent as a volunteer working as a cult mind deprogrammer and exit counselor. You would not believe some of the daft thought patterns which go through some people's minds. >>

          No doubt. But to some extent, the whole idea of a cult is subjective, based on what's popular in a particular society. For example, the beliefs of one mainstream religion will sound cultlike to someone who doesn't believe in it. Christianity was a cult until it became the dominant religion. Many of the things we take for granted today are quite bizarre if you really think about them. So cults can be weird and dangerous, but so can mainstream beliefs.
          There's a difference between a religion and an actual cult - even though some can seem cultish. A religion will "spread the word" - a cult always leaves most of the info for the "initiated". That's one of the psychological factors that they play on to attract victims. A religion may have zealots and branches that go completely freakazoid controlling - especially if they have the power of politics as well - but the mainstream of a religion are not outside of normal social interaction. In a cult, they insulate and isolate most of their group from mainstream society - other than when they send them to make money for the cult. Those are just two ways cults differ from a bonafide religion. Any overtone of control or too much secrecy should serve as a red flag about any group.

          And as far as I ever heard of the Mayan scam - it was about 7 years ago when I first got wind of it...........it's really surprised me how widespread and publicized it became. Really surprised me.
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  • Profile picture of the author mbunga
    'Knowledge is power' and whoever doesn't want to be empowered then, its a free world; one can choose.
    Thank you Sal for the insightful information. Now i will be more vigilant and ensure my Friends and family are aware as well.

    mbunga
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Just out of couriosity, how many heard about the "mayan prophecy" over even 5 years ago? I mean it HAS been THOUSANDS of years, right? You would think that the "mayan prophecy" idea was derived at least hundreds of years ago. Maybe it is a trick to get people to ridicule and waste time on a rather unlikely physical end of the planet scenario so they are dissuaded from thinking of a VERY likely end of society one. After all, what ever is done, things have to be done to cover similarities to 1929 especially since there are more people that convey information faster and they WILL try to compare!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
      << Just out of couriosity, how many heard about the "mayan prophecy" over even 5 years ago? >>

      Actually, this was made popular by Jose Arguelles in the 80s. There really isn't any "Mayan prophecy." Their calender ends in 2012, and what this means is open to interpretation.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

        << Just out of couriosity, how many heard about the "mayan prophecy" over even 5 years ago? >>

        Actually, this was made popular by Jose Arguelles in the 80s. There really isn't any "Mayan prophecy." Their calender ends in 2012, and what this means is open to interpretation.
        You mispoke! There IS a "mayan prophecy"!!!! YOU meant to say that there is no mayan prophecy. I put quotes arround it to make it clear it is only a name, and there is no substance. But just because someone is wrong about a disaster now does NOT mean that we won't have another.

        1984 spoke about a dystopian future. It said it would happen in 1984. Little by little, that CRAZY unlikely fantasy has become ****TRUE****! We are getting VERY close to it being a HISTORY book!

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Just out of couriosity, how many heard about the "mayan prophecy" over even 5 years ago? I mean it HAS been THOUSANDS of years, right? You would think that the "mayan prophecy" idea was derived at least hundreds of years ago. Maybe it is a trick to get people to ridicule and waste time on a rather unlikely physical end of the planet scenario so they are dissuaded from thinking of a VERY likely end of society one.
      Michael Coe wrote in his book "The Maya", "... Armageddon would overtake the degenerate peoples of the world and all creation on the final day of the 13th [b'ak'tun]. Thus...our present universe will be annihilated in December 2012." That was in 1966.

      Over the years, Coe's cock-eyed interpretation was repeated by "scholars" well into the 1990's, with added embellishments rising to what was never intended by Mayan astronomers. There is nothing in the Maya or Aztec or ancient Mesoamerican artifacts to suggest that they prophesied a sudden or major change of any sort in 2012.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by myob View Post

        Michael Coe wrote in his book "The Maya", "... Armageddon would overtake the degenerate peoples of the world and all creation on the final day of the 13th [b'ak'tun]. Thus...our present universe will be annihilated in December 2012." That was in 1966.

        Over the years, Coe's cock-eyed interpretation was repeated by "scholars" well into the 1990's, with added embellishments rising to what was never intended by Mayan astronomers. There is nothing in the Maya or Aztec or ancient Mesoamerican artifacts to suggest that they prophesied a sudden or major change of any sort in 2012.
        Well, I never heard about it until like DAYS before it hit here!

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author l@ttemonarck
    I wish MAYAN's would start making there calendars for 2013. I heard it When National Geographic had set a show of the End of the world -which I don't advise for children- It gives me creepiness why would they indulge a show like that and its happening Dec21 saying. If your a true believer then we should just respect of what they believe and hoping they wont interfere us about the activities of what they believe.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    The point I was making was that evil is in the church or "religion".

    It was prophesied that it would be - that there would be 'false prophets' and 'false teachers' - They range in toxicity from preaching a false gospel to cults and doomsday suicide pacts.

    They have an agenda and that is to mislead the believers and cause them to doubt (and even to kill them); and to give the unbelievers lots of ammunition and darts to throw at believers (and primarily to give them plenty of rationale and support for their unbelief) - keeping them all safely away from the Truth and the Light.

    I am ashamed to say I don't have a lot of sympathy for the religious ones who are led astray because so many things are clearly stated. I consider myself a devout Christian, yet somehow I can't feel sorry for them.

    You don't need to be a scholar to understand directives like 'nobody can know the date or the time' and 'when it IS time there will be no stars, sun or moon' (He is the only light).

    Now that would be pretty obvious, right? -- and not something a charlatan could fake very easily.

    So if they follow some Mansonesque 'charismatic' demon instead of reading the Bible they are probably thumping on, then too bad. I am sorry for them but then as I said, we get what we deserve.

    In fact the crucifixion of Christ demonstrated that man and his religions were at enmity with God -

    Anyway, for best results always read the directions.

    "Don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters".
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Keep in mind that the Maya also performed human sacrifices for things like droughts.

    That alone is a clue that these people were one sandwich short of a picnic.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      The point I was making was that evil is in the church or "religion".

      It was prophesied that it would be - that there would be 'false prophets' and 'false teachers' - They range in toxicity from preaching a false gospel to cults and doomsday suicide pacts.

      They have an agenda and that is to mislead the believers and cause them to doubt (and even to kill them); and to give the unbelievers lots of ammunition and darts to throw at believers (and primarily to give them plenty of rationale and support for their unbelief) - keeping them all safely away from the Truth and the Light.

      I am ashamed to say I don't have a lot of sympathy for the religious ones who are led astray because so many things are clearly stated. I consider myself a devout Christian, yet somehow I can't feel sorry for them.

      You don't need to be a scholar to understand directives like 'nobody can know the date or the time' and 'when it IS time there will be no stars, sun or moon' (He is the only light).

      Now that would be pretty obvious, right? -- and not something a charlatan could fake very easily.

      So if they follow some Mansonesque 'charismatic' demon instead of reading the Bible they are probably thumping on, then too bad. I am sorry for them but then as I said, we get what we deserve.

      In fact the crucifixion of Christ demonstrated that man and his religions were at enmity with God -

      Anyway, for best results always read the directions.

      "Don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters".
      Similarly, I find it rather incongruous that anyone voluntarily would join a cult in their adult years. The below Warrior (Yukon) summed this up rather well with this line, "That alone is a clue that these people (are) one sandwich short of a picnic."

      For some of us though - we didn't have this choice. When you are born into a mind control sect or a cult... all choices, all options are taken away from you. You're brainwashed from a very tender age. Believe it or not I was doing public speaking engagements to the congregation from 4 years old.

      There's an enormous amount of peer pressure too to get yourself baptized as quickly as possible. Unfortunately as soon as this happens, if you disagree later with the teachings, therefore labeled guilty of apostate thoughts, you can be disfellowshipped - total excommunication. In their words, "The dog has returned to it's vomit."

      Gee thanks guys. That's awfully generous of you.

      A lot of these cults also have their very own specific language structure. It's English Jim but not we know it. In other words, double speak. What the average outsider thinks they're hearing they're not in fact interpreting correctly. You have to read between the lines of the spoken / written word to understand the hidden symbolic meaning hidden inside their language structure.

      In the group I belonged to we had what was called the theocratic warfare strategy for example. In effect it's okay to lie if it's to protect your brother (another member) or the organization from coming under outside scrutiny. As we have (they reason) God's ultimate truth and it's impossible for God to lie, telling a lie which protects the brotherhood or the organization isn't in fact a lie at all but the truth itself, for in truth there are no lies, only truth. Go figure that one that out.

      A good book to read is by former Governing Body member Ray Franz - In Search of Christian Freedom and his other book... Crisis of Conscience. Beware both are fairly hefty reads. Not for the faint hearted. (Heysal, you're excluded, you'll be fine - take that as a compliment).

      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Keep in mind that the Maya also performed human sacrifices for things like droughts.

      That alone is a clue that these people were one sandwich short of a picnic.
      Not only that but throwing the decapitated bodies into their water supply was just mind bogglingly stupid.

      And it's these people many are trusting with their end of the world prediction. Yeah, right on. Good on ya!

      Fair do's, there could well be an element of truth to this doomsday prophecy but I don't think it will be what many people imagine. All this stuff about a planet hurtling in (Nibiru), what a load of codswallop.

      Yes, there might be some increased solar storm activity, yes it could be quite bad, yes every electronic device on the planet could go up in flames or whatever but all of these things are nothing more than maybe's.

      Maybe this will happen. Maybe that will happen. But where's the scientific proof that the end of the world is instantly upon us?

      Did not the good book state nobody knows the day or the hour, not even the Son only the almighty everlasting Father knows this. So trying to work it out is just plainly daft.

      Something is afoot most certainly but what it is or what form it will take or when it's going to happen, goodness only knows. And it doesn't need anyone preaching at others telling them what they're doing wrong with their life, jumping up and down saying, "We're right and you're wrong. We're the only one's who have the answers - ultimate truth." This in my opinion is very dangerous thinking.

      It's better to be prepared, to be open minded, to do unto others as you want done unto yourself - what more can you do?

      If love is impartial and God is perfect love, he's not going to judge you because you just happen to belong to the 'wrong' religion or race or whatever. He loves everyone equally.

      He's not up there taking notes, "Hmmm Mark naughty naughty boy, you swore 27 times today, minus 1 point." And so it gets to armageddon or whatever and bother! Mark scored 99.8%. Dreadful state of affairs, into gehenna you go.

      What a bloomin' load of baloney.

      Here's the other thing about God...

      God loves fun. He loves creativity. He wants us to be happy. He's not about being all serious all the time. He really doesn't get as annoyed with you as other men would have you believe. Love covers everything, it's not serious 100% of the time.

      In other words God loves a bloody good laugh. He's up there on his cloud smoking His pipe at times having a right knee's up, belly up laughing himself silly.

      Flippant opinions? No. Just practical and down to earth knowledge. By gum, I've been talking to Him for enough years, wagging my finger up at Him, giving Him a peice of my mind often. Don't worry He's big enough to handle himself He can take it.

      I digress. Oh sh*t, I just forgot, I'm on the Warrior Forum.

      Oops sorry.

      And todays weather forecast is...

      Slightly overcast with the chance of a few showers, light winds increasing to force four by late afternoon, uv index 3. Pollution level, low.


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Hi Mark.

    I do understand to some degree being 'born into a cult' or a church with a false gospel or errant teachings and without a doubt they would be forgiven for that.

    However at some point someone has to develop 'discernment' - it is important enough (or should be) to do some research and if something is just glaringly opposed to the Word then get a clue and get away.

    ... and sometimes that means leaving everybody - the Book even says you are to leave everybody and everything to follow Him. (That is Christ, not any man no matter who he says he is) (and especially we have to get over our self).

    You are right God is not up there keeping score and the only thing that is unforgivable is UNBELIEF - but even then you can change your mind (repent) and be forgiven (I believe) even at the last minute. The true gospel is one of grace. It is just about His mercy and from that mercy comes His grace - ALL ABOUT HIS LOVE FOR US.

    A good book for you to read would be the Recovery version of the New Testament by Witness Lee and Living Stream Ministries (LSM.org) - you can get one sent free at biblesforamerica.com

    ('recovery' from all the errant teachings and bad translations and the footnotes are longer than the book by far! It is really extensive and brilliant in its simplicity)
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        I have always believed that THE most important thing is your one on one personal relationship with God the Father, for without that you surely can falter.

        Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    It's just a book, Mark, not a box.

    You wouldn't catch me in any church or in this case 'meeting'.

    'Being in a church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than being in a garage makes you a car'.

    .. and you are right - it is only between us and Him - the key is when our soul (personality, emotions, mind AND will) can become one with His Spirit.

    Originally Posted by Mark Andrews View Post

    No thanks Patrician, you won't get me in any box again, I'm a 'religion' of one man and no one else is welcome to join it. My relationship is with Him upstairs and him alone, you won't catch me going to another church or listening to the dogmas of men, I'll take the teaching directly through simple prayer and questions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    LOL. MARK

    Yes He is the Big Dear.

    The thing I like so much to realize is that 'we can ENJOY Him'. (new concept to me from LSM)

    I get love, honor, obey - but ENJOY?

    Yes, you know in that He is perfect, just thinking of Him I know

    IT'S ALL GOOD.

    EVERYTHING
    IS FINE.

    THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT! (He's got it covered)

    (and not in spite of tribulation but BECAUSE of it)

    Dear of Him is fricking right, Bro!

    hope you catch the big one -(fishy)

    NOTE: MARK DELETED THE POST I AM RESPONDING TO HERE.
    IT WAS ABOUT ALL THE TROUBLE WITH DOGMA.
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    Sal, I agree there's a difference between a cult and a religion, but sometimes it's a thin line and a matter of perspective.

    I wouldn't discount everything the Mayans believed in because of human sacrifices. One theory is that their civilization, along with many others, were seeded by ET knowledge that was lost over the years. In any case, their calendar is quite advanced and indicates advanced astronomical knowledge.

    It's similar to the Egyptians (and many others), who built structures that still cannot be explained by current scientific knowledge. They also practiced slavery. I suspect it's similar to the Mayans, that by the times of recorded history the civilization had already declined significantly, but some of the knowledge was preserved. Read people like Graham Hancock if you're curious about this.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      Sal, I agree there's a difference between a cult and a religion, but sometimes it's a thin line and a matter of perspective.

      I wouldn't discount everything the Mayans believed in because of human sacrifices. One theory is that their civilization, along with many others, were seeded by ET knowledge that was lost over the years. In any case, their calendar is quite advanced and indicates advanced astronomical knowledge.

      It's similar to the Egyptians (and many others), who built structures that still cannot be explained by current scientific knowledge. They also practiced slavery. I suspect it's similar to the Mayans, that by the times of recorded history the civilization had already declined significantly, but some of the knowledge was preserved. Read people like Graham Hancock if you're curious about this.
      I have never once doubted that the ancients had some pretty powerful knowledge. It makes me sick to think of the destruction of the Library of Alexandria. Especially considering some of the absurdly accurate maps that escaped - and were not able to be reproduced until we went to space. The military actually used the Piris Reis map (circa 1513ad) to correct inaccuracies in our maps back in the 70's.

      However - the Mayans never made any predictions about our destruction. The calendar is a long count of energy cycles. The energy cycle will be ending. Gee - Know what happens when the sun cycle we count ends? It happens every 11 or 12 years, so we can figure exactly how traumatic the end of an energy cycle is. I don't need to study any more of it - I've talked to a few archaeologists, looked at the text from that University in Japan, and a few others, and talked to a friend of mine who is very deeply involved with the commercial treasure hunting industry just for a different perspective of what's going on down there.

      I've had all of it I'm interested in, thanks. I just wanted to remind people it's an issue with a lot of people becoming fully immersed in the mythology and to watch out that they don't decide to help it along on their own account. Don't care about the myth - don't care about everyone's religious dogmas. Just don't want to see someone's moron kid decide to drink some kool-aid to celebrate the season this year.

      Really. Geesh.
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      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    I sometimes think these ancient people had all this important knowledge because they didn't spend their days in front of TVs and behind computer screens. They had thousands of uninterrupted nights to chart the stars.

    And humankind being what it is, they conjectured a lot of meaning to their observations.

    I think we kind of got away from Sal's original post. Like it or not, there are people who are psychologically vulnerable to cults and lots of cults actively recruiting. For most of these people it has less to do with G-d and more to do with defining their own identity.

    Keep your eyes open. It is easier to pull someone out that has not become completely immersed and isolated.

    Large classical religions could be argued to be cults. But I really don't see the Catholic Church asking its members to take a cyanide pill on 12-21-12. I can't say the same for characters like Jim Jones.
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  • Profile picture of the author InWait
    Regardless of your beliefs regarding the end of this year, I believe it may be a good idea to adopt some sort of preparedness/survivalist mindset. I don't mean to go all Doomsday Prepper, just keep a supply of food, water, general essentials, and have plans for likely scenarios. Such as December of this year, when people are raiding the stores because of the supposed possibility that something is going to happen. And if some reporter uses the word "shortage" in the same sentence as "food" or "gas", then we're really going to have problems.

    It also doesn't help that there's conspiracy theories and propaganda alike concerning this year's presidential election. Jokes aside about the world ending right after the election, there's a lot of fearmongering and hostile dialogue these days. There are people who believe that the election (or re-election) of a single person will either save this country or bring it to it's end. Combine this with hysteria over a calendar, add a pinch of Niburu with a side of ancient alien, pole shift the whole batch, serve it all up to someone who is very open to suggestion, and you've got yourself an individual with issues.

    Though I don't expect "the end", I still think it's a good idea to try to be ready for anything. I definitely agree that if you know someone who is at risk of doing something stupid or even has delusions about what they may do given certain circumstances, then it may be wise to try to nudge them back into reality.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by InWait View Post

      Regardless of your beliefs regarding the end of this year, I believe it may be a good idea to adopt some sort of preparedness/survivalist mindset. I don't mean to go all Doomsday Prepper, just keep a supply of food, water, general essentials, and have plans for likely scenarios. Such as December of this year, when people are raiding the stores because of the supposed possibility that something is going to happen. And if some reporter uses the word "shortage" in the same sentence as "food" or "gas", then we're really going to have problems.

      It also doesn't help that there's conspiracy theories and propaganda alike concerning this year's presidential election. Jokes aside about the world ending right after the election, there's a lot of fearmongering and hostile dialogue these days. There are people who believe that the election (or re-election) of a single person will either save this country or bring it to it's end. Combine this with hysteria over a calendar, add a pinch of Niburu with a side of ancient alien, pole shift the whole batch, serve it all up to someone who is very open to suggestion, and you've got yourself an individual with issues.

      Though I don't expect "the end", I still think it's a good idea to try to be ready for anything. I definitely agree that if you know someone who is at risk of doing something stupid or even has delusions about what they may do given certain circumstances, then it may be wise to try to nudge them back into reality.

      So it takes grand prophecies of imminent destruction to get people to realize they need to be prepared for disasters? Wow. I wonder how many people are on the road in winter without an emergency kit in their car. That would account for the idiots who freeze to death on the side of a road because their cell phone didn't work. :rolleyes:
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      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
    I never thought about prepping till Y2K. Since then I have kept extra supplies in house to bug in. Also, we never know what winter will bring. With only a few days supply in anyone place, it makes sense to stock up before winter.

    I agree there is going to be a run on supplies. I have seen it with snow predictions. Store shelves empty out fast. And now is the time to do it gradually so you won't be caught in crazy lines on December 20th.
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