Trayvon Martin's family looks to trademark 'I am Trayvon,' 'Justice for Trayvon'

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I'm not just jumping on this bandwagon. I'll need to know the whole story first before I formulate an opinion. The media reports on the incident seem designed to inflame public outrage when someone who is obviously not "White" is described as a "White Hispanic." His father is White and his mother is Peruvian. Does he look "White" to you?

Was Malcom X a "White Black" (since his mother was White)?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I'm not just jumping on this bandwagon. I'll need to know the whole story first before I formulate an opinion. The media reports on the incident seem designed to inflame public outrage when someone who is obviously not "White" is described as a "White Hispanic." His father is White and his mother is Peruvian. Does he look "White" to you?

Was Malcom X a "White Black" (since his mother was White)?

Malcom's mother was half white.

TL

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thunderbird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Malcom's mother was half white.

TL

I stand corrected:
His mother was half White, the result of her mother (Malcolm's grandmother) being raped by a Scottish man.
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- MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by thunderbird
  
  I stand corrected:
  His mother was half White, the result of her mother (Malcolm's grandmother) being raped by a Scottish man.
  
  Hey!!! Let's not pull the Scots into this!!
  
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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Malcom's mother was half white.

TL

But Obama's mother was full white -

So if the media can make this man (hispanic - white) out to be a white person, then that pretty much negates the last several years where they've tried to make Republicans out to be Racists. Because by their own definition - Obama is a white man.

And by the way, the media isn't really showing a fair representation. Trayvon was 17 yrs old and 6'3 - not the small 13 year old they're showing pictures of. He was also currently on suspension from school for drug possession. Police reports also say that he one-punched Mr. Z in the nose so hard that it knocked him to the ground and then proceeded to pound his head against the pavement. If that account is true, then I'd have to say that I'd be tempted to use a weapon as well.

Mr Z may be guilty of being a bit naive and stupid - but definitely not enough evidence yet to say that it's a hate crime.

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candoit2

14 years ago

Citizens walk around with guns and take the law into their own hands, giving out death sentences for minor offenses.

The actual media itself conspires to create civil unrest and ignite racial tension with gross misrepresentations of the event and people involved to generate ratings.

Sounds like a typical news day from the USA, with just a little more hype than usual.

Originally Posted by garyv

But Obama's mother was full white -

So if the media can make this man (hispanic - white) out to be a white person, then that pretty much negates the last several years where they've tried to make Republicans out to be Racists. Because by their own definition - Obama is a white man.

And by the way, the media isn't really showing a fair representation. Trayvon was 17 yrs old and 6'3 - not the small 13 year old they're showing pictures of. He was also currently on suspension from school for drug possession. Police reports also say that he one-punched Mr. Z in the nose so hard that it knocked him to the ground and then proceeded to pound his head against the pavement. If that account is true, then I'd have to say that I'd be tempted to use a weapon as well.

Mr Z may be guilty of being a bit naive and stupid - but definitely not enough evidence yet to say that it's a hate crime.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

But Obama's mother was full white -

So if the media can make this man (hispanic - white) out to be a white person, then that pretty much negates the last several years where they've tried to make Republicans out to be Racists. Because by their own definition - Obama is a white man.

By whos definition? The media? Who cares about media definitions? There's so little truth in reporting ... first they had this guy as white even though his family said he's hispanic. Who cares what he is? Do you think hispanics can't be racist?

Originally Posted by garyv

And by the way, the media isn't really showing a fair representation. Trayvon was 17 yrs old and 6'3 - not the small 13 year old they're showing pictures of. He was also currently on suspension from school for drug possession. Police reports also say that he one-punched Mr. Z in the nose so hard that it knocked him to the ground and then proceeded to pound his head against the pavement. If that account is true, then I'd have to say that I'd be tempted to use a weapon as well.

Who cares how tall the unarmed teen murder victim is? He was stalked by this thug after being told by the dispatcher NOT to stalk him. He was the aggressor. He had no business following and confronting an unarmed teen who was merely coming home from the store.

Smearing the victim with reports of schools suspensions and other garbage to what ... make a point that he deserved to die?

By Florida's own license to kill law ...ooops, I mean Stand Your Ground, it is Treyvon that the law should have been applied to. An armed man stalked and confronted him. By Florida law, it should have been legal for him to blow him to kingdom come ... oh, that's right. Skittles aren't a lethal weapon.

As for the horrific beating Zimmerman took ..... right.
He looks pretty damned good in this video 1/2 hr after he was allegedly pounded into the pavement and beaten

Trayvon Martin case: Shooter George Zimmerman appears uninjured in police video on night of shooting - NY Daily News

Miraculous.

Originally Posted by garyv

Mr Z may be guilty of being a bit naive and stupid - but definitely not enough evidence yet to say that it's a hate crime.

Funny, this self-appointed thug made around 46 calls to the cops over the past year pestering them with reports about people he was suspicious of. Guess what? They were all black.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Smearing the victim with reports of schools suspensions and other garbage to what ... make a point that he deserved to die?

Funny, this self-appointed thug made around 46 calls to the cops over the past year pestering them with reports about people he was suspicious of. Guess what? They were all black.

Finding out the truth about a person is not smearing them. And his past behavior is very relevant, because it shows whether or not he's capable of what they are claiming about him.

Just like the other side is digging up Zimmerman's past to show that he has some violent behavior in his past. Or that "he made around 46 calls to the cops".

Past behavior is extremely important here. I don't know why people are so intent on covering it up.

When the story first came out, I went straight to facebook. I go to facebook a lot after reading stories like this. Even local stories of murder or death, I'll find the person's facebook page. It makes them more human to me than just a story in the paper. But when I went to Trayvon's facebook after reading this story, it was obvious to me that it had already been scrubbed. There were no comments left made by Travon - Only a lot of one way conversations where you can tell someone went in and deleted comments. There's an obvious reason to cover up past behavior.

No one deserves to be shot. But if you live in a State where it's legal to carry a weapon, you have to know that you're taking a huge risk if you try and beat someone up.

And just because someone is following you, that's no where near an excuse to pummel them.

Either way, I hope justice is served. If Zimmerman is lying - or broke the law, then I hope that he pays dearly for it.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Finding out the truth about a person is not smearing them. And his past behavior is very relevant, because it shows whether or not he's capable of what they are claiming about him.

Just like the other side is digging up Zimmerman's past to show that he has some violent behavior in his past. Or that "he made around 46 calls to the cops".

Past behavior is extremely important here. I don't know why people are so intent on covering it up.

When the story first came out, I went straight to facebook. I go to facebook a lot after reading stories like this. Even local stories of murder or death, I'll find the person's facebook page. It makes them more human to me than just a story in the paper. But when I went to Trayvon's facebook after reading this story, it was obvious to me that it had already been scrubbed. There were no comments left made by Travon - Only a lot of one way conversations where you can tell someone went in and deleted comments. There's an obvious reason to cover up past behavior.

No one deserves to be shot. But if you live in a State where it's legal to carry a weapon, you have to know that you're taking a huge risk if you try and beat someone up.

And just because someone is following you, that's no where near an excuse to pummel them.

Either way, I hope justice is served. If Zimmerman is lying - or broke the law, then I hope that he pays dearly for it.

Bunch of BS. Facts are facts. Zimmerman instigated the entire thing and I only wish Treyvon had a weapon and had blown him away, since he was being stalked by an armed man ... he had every reason to believe that his life was in danger and Stand His Ground and annihilate him. Unfortunately, the thug killed the teen he was stalking and ended the life of a kid who should have lived a lot longer.

Treyvon's past behavior is completely irrelevant. He was targeted by a thug because, as he had done so many times in the past, this thug suspected any black guy walking through this neighborhood of being up to no good.

Zimmerman had no knowledge of his past behavior so had no reason to suspect him of anything. He was walking down the street with his Skittles and tea and talking on a phone to his girlfriend. There's nothing suspicious about that ... unless you just happen to be a racist that suspects that all black guys walking through this neighborhood is up to no good.

He will be prosecuted for his crime eventually.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Bunch of BS. Facts are facts. Zimmerman instigated the entire thing and I only wish Treyvon had a weapon and had blown him away, since he was being stalked by an armed man ... he had every reason to believe that his life was in danger and Stand His Ground and annihilate him. Unfortunately, the thug killed the teen he was stalking and ended the life of a kid who should have lived a lot longer.

Treyvon's past behavior is completely irrelevant. He was targeted by a thug because, as he had done so many times in the past, this thug suspected any black guy walking through this neighborhood of being up to no good.

Zimmerman had no knowledge of his past behavior so had no reason to suspect him of anything. He was walking down the street with his Skittles and tea and talking on a phone to his girlfriend. There's nothing suspicious about that ... unless you just happen to be a racist that suspects that all black guys walking through this neighborhood is up to no good.

He will be prosecuted for his crime eventually.

You have no idea what went on in that last minute - Right now very few people do - and one of them is dead.

And Zimmerman doesn't have to have clairvoyance of a person's past, if that person is pummeling his head into the ground. A person's past is used after the fact to see if a person is capable of doing what is claimed. Especially in a case where there's not really a lot of reliable evidence.

Why do you think you're bringing up Zimmerman's past - if past behavior is irrelevant? Don't be a hypocrite.

If Trayvon has a history of stealing and violence - then it lends credibility to a case where there's very little evidence. Just as do the past calls Zimmerman made to 911. It's naive to think that past behavior is not important to this case.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

You have no idea what went on in that last minute - Right now very few people do - and one of them is dead.

And Zimmerman doesn't have to have clairvoyance of a person's past, if that person is pummeling his head into the ground.

Did you happen to see the video of Zimmerman 1/2 hr after he killed this kid? Not a drop of blood or an abrasion on him anywhere visible.

Not only that, he lied. He said his head was pummeled into the pavement. Eye witnesses say they were both on the GRASS. Not on pavement. There's very little that isn't known, given Zimmerman's own statements on the 911 call, Treyvon's call to his girlfriend, the video tape of Zimmerman after the killing.

Blaming the victim in this case because oooooh maybe he smoked pot. WoW ... that's a shocker! Maybe he was suspended from school. OMG! Anything but that!

Zimmerman is the one with the violent history from a domestic violence case to assaulting a cop.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Did you happen to see the video of Zimmerman 1/2 hr after he killed this kid? Not a drop of blood or an abrasion on him anywhere visible.

Not only that, he lied. He said his head was pummeled into the pavement. Eye witnesses say they were both on the GRASS. Not on pavement. There's very little that isn't known, given Zimmerman's own statements on the 911 call, Treyvon's call to his girlfriend, the video tape of Zimmerman after the killing.

Blaming the victim in this case because oooooh maybe he smoked pot. WoW ... that's a shocker! Maybe he was suspended from school. OMG! Anything but that!

Zimmerman is the one with the violent history from a domestic violence case to assaulting a cop.

You may not want to read the whole thread as it has gotten quite long,but that has been addressed by me and others several times already.
I saw the video,but I never saw where it said it was 30 minutes after the incident. And quite honestly, in the case of a violent crime I have never seen someone removed from the scene and at the station within 30 minutes.
BUT, if he did have abrasions on his head from being banged on the sidewalk,you very well may not be able to see them.
Additionally, it has been reported that he received medical treatment at the scene of the incident. In most cases that would include the cleaning up of any blood on his body.
Did he lie about the cement? Neither of us know. You say the witnesses claim it was on the grass,the eyewitnesses I have heard reports from clearly state in was originally being done on the concrete,then the managed to get to the grass.

No one is blaming the victim because he smoked pot. There is no question he was suspended from school. There is a question if he had gang ties or not.
As Gary said, the past IS very relevant.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

You may not want to read the whole thread as it has gotten quite long,but that has been addressed by me and others several times already.
I saw the video,but I never saw where it said it was 30 minutes after the incident. And quite honestly, in the case of a violent crime I have never seen someone removed from the scene and at the station within 30 minutes.

It was timestamped. They know when he was taken into custody and the video is timestamped. It is around 43 minutes and no more than that.

Originally Posted by KimW

BUT, if he did have abrasions on his head from being banged on the sidewalk,you very well may not be able to see them.

Additionally, it has been reported that he received medical treatment at the scene of the incident. In most cases that would include the cleaning up of any blood on his body.

Remind me to never get medical treatment in Florida. Not only was there no visible signs of injury in the tape, but this poor severely beaten and pummeled man did not have a single bandage on his head or nose.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

It was timestamped. They know when he was taken into custody and the video is timestamped. It is around 43 minutes and no more than that.

Remind me to never get medical treatment in Florida. Not only was there no visible signs of injury in the tape, but this poor severely beaten and pummeled man did not have a single bandage on his head or nose.

I've seen a version of that video and no where is it timestamped. But it is very possible that you have seen one that was. But even so for me to believe it was 45 minutes at the most you would have to provide a video from the moment the cruiser pulled up to the crime scene to when they got to the station. It just doesn't happen that in the cases someone is at the station that fast.

Actually the link Dave posted above is the video I keep seeing shown.

Again, look up what an abrasion is..it is not an open bleeding cut or wound,and that is what I keep hearing he had on his head, abrasions.
Those types of injuries can bleed immediately,have a delayed bleeding,or not bleed at all.

I've also never seen the term severely pummeled used in what happened. One does not have to be severely pummeled to be in fear. And I am not defending him,I am just stating facts. I am 5'8", if someone,anyone,6'3" started wailing on me I would take any means available to defend myself. and though many here would deny it, 99% of those posting would too. Its human nature.

The real problem that I see is that if his nose was really broken (and I have said this numerous times in this thread) then it would have to get treated somewhere.A hospital,a private physician's office,anywhere. I am very anxious to see if there are any medical records provided that can back up that assertion. If none are provided that alone would put a very big hole in his defense case.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I've seen a version of that video and no where is it timestamped. But it is very possible that you have seen one that was. But even so for me to believe it was 45 minutes at the most you would have to provide a video from the moment the cruiser pulled up to the crime scene to when they got to the station. It just doesn't happen that in the cases someone is at the station that fast.

The video was shown on national news over and over again yesterday, complete with timestamp. It was 43 minutes from scene of crime to video at police station.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

The video was shown on national news over and over again yesterday, complete with timestamp. It was 43 minutes from scene of crime to video at police station.

Sorry, I don't watch tv, because most of it is either crap or lies, but if someone provides a link I will be sure to watch it.

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seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Malcom's mother was half white.

TL

REMEMBER! You CAN'T say that because you THEN have to call zimmerman half white.

Many minorities stress the MINORITY part anyway! BTW one of his closest friends claimed that zimmerman was NOT racist, and that the boy hurt him. Said friend was BLACK!

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Yes. He looks white to me. The distinction between non Hispanic and Hispanic whites has been used by the US census for over 3 decades. The distinction is considered an ethnic category and not a racial one, so he is not "obviously" not white.

For those of you who can't seem to understand why someone who has one black parent and one white parent commonly refer to themselves as black, you need to read some history to understand it more clearly. A good place to start is The One Drop Rule:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I'm not just jumping on this bandwagon. I'll need to know the whole story first before I formulate an opinion. The media reports on the incident seem designed to inflame public outrage when someone who is obviously not "White" is described as a "White Hispanic." His father is White and his mother is Peruvian. Does he look "White" to you?

Was Malcom X a "White Black" (since his mother was White)?

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

For those of you who can't seem to understand why someone who has one black parent and one white parent commonly refer to themselves as black, you need to read some history to understand it more clearly. A good place to start is The One Drop Rule:

One-drop rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually if you read up on it yourself, you'll see that the only people that use that are racists. It dates back to slavery days where "one drop" of black blood makes you black. Even the wiki you provided is racist - it says: "the automatic assignment of children of a mixed union between different socioeconomic or ethnic groups to the group with the lower status".

And I wasn't saying that he's white - I'm saying that using the media's own falsely hyped up definition - Obama himself would be white.

And by the way - Zimmerman's own Voter Registration has him as Hispanic.... http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/upl...gistration.pdf

So this is purely trumped up wording by he media to throw gasoline on this fire. As are the misleading photographs they're using of Trayvon from when he was a younger boy.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Right. It was originally used by racists. Of course. What's your point? I think you missed mine which should be apparent if you think about it.

Also, why is some the media's definition of him as a white a falsely hyped up definition if it's been commonly used in this country for decades in many areas including the census? ( I actually haven't seen this label used for Zimmerman but I don't watch Foxnews much which I am sure has been pointing out these things nightly. ) So, your statement about Obama makes no sense.

Originally Posted by garyv

Actually if you read up on it yourself, you'll see that the only people that use that are racists. It dates back to slavery days where "one drop" of black blood makes you black. Even the wiki you provided is racist - it says: "the automatic assignment of children of a mixed union between different socioeconomic or ethnic groups to the group with the lower status".

And I wasn't saying that he's white - I'm saying that using the media's own falsely hyped up definition - Obama himself would be white.

And by the way - Zimmerman's own Voter Registration has him as Hispanic.... http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/upl...gistration.pdf

So this is purely trumped up wording by he media to throw gasoline on this fire. As are the misleading photographs they're using of Trayvon from when he was a younger boy.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

R

Also, why is some the media's definition of him as a white a falsely hyped up definition if it's been commonly used in this country for decades in many areas including the census? ( I actually haven't seen this label used for Zimmerman but I don't watch Foxnews much which I am sure has been pointing out these things nightly. ) So, your statement about Obama makes no sense.

It's falsely hyped up - because if you look up any of his personal records, he's hispanic. In fact his own father is on record saying that he's hispanic. If his own records had him down as white or white - hispanic I'd have no problem with it. But it just seems hypocritical to call this man a racist - all the while trying to pigeonhole him into a race that he's not and has never himself claimed to be. That to me is a racist act in itself.

I don't have time to watch much Fox News either - I first picked up on the phrase in a Yahoo News Article - and thought it was strange when I saw it there because I hadn't seen it used before. I've since found out that The New York Times was one of the first to put the phrase out there....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/us...-shooting.html

Since then several have done an exhaustive search of the New York Times and have found that the phrase has only been used 3 times in their entire history of print. That speaks volumes to me about their intent here. They want to be able to use this as a political weapon.

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thunderbird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

<snip>I've since found out that The New York Times was one of the first to put the phrase out there....<snip>

Fox is not responsible for that gem. It seems Reuters creatively initiated the use of this term in the case of Zimmerman. I lived in Latin America and I can guarantee that no one I knew there would have described Zimmerman as a "White Hispanic." Most people I knew there had the good sense not to employ such divisive terminology to begin with.
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

How can it be false if that is what he is? Even if he doesn't call himself a white hispanic it is not a mutually exclusive term. ( even if they don't use it in Central America T-Bird. It certainly is used here in the US. )

"White Hispanic and Latino Americans are citizens and residents of the United States who are racially White and ethnically Hispanic or Latino."

White Hispanic and Latino Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by garyv

It's falsely hyped up - because if you look up any of his personal records, he's hispanic. In fact his own father is on record saying that he's hispanic. If his own records had him down as white or white - hispanic I'd have no problem with it. But it just seems hypocritical to call this man a racist - all the while trying to pigeonhole him into a race that he's not and has never himself claimed to be. That to me is a racist act in itself.

I don't have time to watch much Fox News either - I first picked up on the phrase in a Yahoo News Article - and thought it was strange when I saw it there because I hadn't seen it used before. I've since found out that The New York Times was one of the first to put the phrase out there....

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/us...-shooting.html

Since then several have done an exhaustive search of the New York Times and have found that the phrase has only been used 3 times in their entire history of print. That speaks volumes to me about their intent here. They want to be able to use this as a political weapon.

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

<snip>

"White Hispanic and Latino Americans are citizens and residents of the United States who are racially White and ethnically Hispanic or Latino."

White Hispanic and Latino Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

George Zimmerman is not "racially White". He is racially mixed heritage. As GaryV pointed out, so is Barack Obama, but no one is calling Barack Obama, "White African American."

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Kay King

14 years ago

It doesn't matter what "color" this person looks to you - Zimmerman has stated and it has been stated categorically that he is "Hispanic".

Sharpton used the term "white hispanic" because it suited his purpose of arguing racial profiling against blacks by whites. If the facts don't suit your argument....just create a new racial designation to make it work. Seems to be working well as Treyvon's parents just testified about racial profiling in front of a Congressional committee by invitation.

The photos of Zimmerman, in my opinion, were changed to make him look like a "bad guy". On the other hand, Treyvon is shown as a 13-14 yr old innocent kid playing basketball in photos that have been admitted to have been "enhanced".

Fact is - Treyvon was 17 - 6'3" - and not innocent looking on his twitter page of trash talking. He bragged of taking a swing at a bus driver - was kicked out of school 3 times - and according to his friends had just joined a gang. When these points were questioned - the supporters said "it's irrelevant".

I don't think so. I can't imagine the innocent, handsome young boy being aggressive or confrontational....but I can imagine that tall 17 yr old with an attitude being aggressive to someone who seemed to be looking at him. It doesn't change the tragic results - but it might change the story.

I think the media sensationalized this story for ratings - the usual group of activists looking for facetime on TV rushed to take up the cause - and I don't think all the facts are in yet.

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Dan Riffle

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

Although I'm a young black male myself, I really wish Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson both would crawl in a hole and never come out. These two guys have been exploiting the black community for a long time now. How come these two morons never come out after an innocent black person is killed by another black person, which happens every single day? Better yet, how come the entire black community isn't as outraged by the black-on-black crime, which occurs at an alarming rate, as they are about this one case?

Amen to this.

Maybe I've missed a rare occurrence, but I could take either of them seriously if they would condemn human on human crime. They crawl out from under their rocks the second a situation such as this one occurs, but can't be found when the colors are reversed -- or, as you mentioned -- black on black crime occurs.

Again, maybe I've missed it -- I don't spend my free time tracking the whereabouts of Sharpton and Jackson -- but if they were so concerned about violent crime, we should be hearing from them quite regularly. It just seems they only see daylight when it fits their agenda. I find that to be insulting and a travesty. They have the ear of a wide audience. Just imagine the social change they could drive if they wanted to.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Are you sure? Hispanic isn't a race. At least officially in the US, which is where this event took place. The US census considers these as the racial classifications: American Indian, Alaskan Native, Asian or Pacific Islander, Black, and White. I don't know what race Zimmerman's mother is out of those choices but I guess you do.

Originally Posted by thunderbird

George Zimmerman is not "racially White". He is racially mixed heritage. As GaryV pointed out, so is Barack Obama, but no one is calling Barack Obama, "White African American."

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Are you sure? Hispanic isn't a race. At least officially in the US, which is where this event took place. The US census considers these as the racial classifications: American Indian, Alaskan Native, Asian or Pacific Islander, Black, and White. I don't know what race Zimmerman's mother is out of those choices but I guess you do.

I am not 100% sure of George Zimmerman's mother's ethnicity. The sources I've read say she is "Peruvian." I've been to Peru. Most Peruvians have Native ancestry (eg Inca and other original inhabitants of the region), as much if not more than most status Native Americans (aka Status Indians). According to one article,
Suspect in Trayvon Martin shooting, George Zimmerman, has Hispanic heritage
"Zimmerman is widely described as a white man, but the one-time Catholic altar boy 'is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family,' his father said in a letter to the Orlando Sentinel newspaper."

It is a bad idea to engage in trial by news media that deliberately uses inflammatory and irresponsible terminology to spark public outrage. Trial by Internet discussion forum is just as ridiculous, I know.

Irrespective of what "race" he is, he should have a fair trial in court where any evidence of crimes is weighed, and establish if there is any evidence of a racist motive (racism is certainly not limited to so-called Whites).

My personal opinion is that his actions do seem stupid and the tragic death of the teenager probably would have completely avoidable if he didn't get so extreme in his self-appointed rabid vigilante guard dog mode.

Any analysis of the meaning of race, eg on this thread, quickly exposes how illogical and arbitrary it is, rife with double standards and different definition rules (which, frankly, is racist in itself) depending on heritage.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

My personal opinion is that his actions do seem stupid and tragic death of the teenager probably would have completely avoidable if he didn't get so extreme in his self-appointed rabid vigilante guard dog mode.

THAT should be the only issue in this case. Once he made that 911 call his responsibility as Neighborhood Watch leader, good neighbor, or whatever has ended (in THIS case) as soon as he passed his info over to the police.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

THAT should be the only issue in this case. Once he made that 911 call his responsibility as Neighborhood Watch leader, good neighbor, or whatever has ended (in THIS case) as soon as he passed his info over to the police.

There does come a point though, when criminals keep getting away with the same thing, that you feel obligated to intervene. Especially when the police are as inept as they are in his town. Some have reported that he has called 9-11 forty plus times in the recent past. And in this recent 9-11 recording you can hear him say that they are always getting away.

Now it's not worth taking a life over - but I'm willing to bet that he didn't go out there with the intent of killing anyone. There have been many situations in my past where I've gone out of the house to inspect a suspicious situation - and if it was legal for me to conceal a weapon, I would have done so. If someone clocked me in the face hard enough for me to hit the pavement, and then started smashing my head against the ground, I have to tell you that based on that behavior alone, my life as a father having to still raise 3 children instantly becomes more important than his.

Having said that, I would also expect to have to defend that action in court. The police in this case have shown that they are completely inept. They should have arrested him if for nothing else than to protect him from the true racists out there. He has a bounty now on his head - dead or alive - Now how is that any better than what they are claiming he did? We know for a fact that THAT is illegal - and completely based on "race". But where is the outcry over that?

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

There does come a point though, when criminals keep getting away with the same thing, that you feel obligated to intervene. Especially when the police are as inept as they are in his town. Some have reported that he has called 9-11 forty plus times in the recent past. And in this recent 9-11 recording you can hear him say that they are always getting away.

Now it's not worth taking a life over - but I'm willing to bet that he didn't go out there with the intent of killing anyone. There have been many situations in my past where I've gone out of the house to inspect a suspicious situation - and if it was legal for me to conceal a weapon, I would have done so. If someone clocked me in the face hard enough for me to hit the pavement, and then started smashing my head against the ground, I have to tell you that based on that behavior alone, my life as a father having to still raise 3 children instantly becomes more important than his.

Having said that, I would also expect to have to defend that action in court. The police in this case have shown that they are completely inept. They should have arrested him if for nothing else than to protect him from the true racists out there. He has a bounty now on his head - dead or alive - Now how is that any better than what they are claiming he did? We know for a fact that THAT is illegal - and completely based on "race". But where is the outcry over that?

To apprehend a "suspicious" person requires training and expertise along with the ablity to make a good judgement call which comes from that training plus experience.

NONE of which Zimmerman possessed.

His "training" was in 1.awareness 2.observation. 3.Call 911 (Study up on Neighborhood Watch)

He overstepped his bounds....period.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

To apprehend a "suspicious" person requires training and expertise along with the ablity to make a good judgement call which comes from that training plus experience.

NONE of which Zimmerman possessed.

His "training" was in 1.awareness 2.observation. 3.Call 911 (Study up on Neighborhood Watch)

He overstepped his bounds....period.

I agree - and I'll bet in hindsight that he surely wishes he never would have been involved. But over-stepping your bounds and making a stupid decision does not equate to the hate crime that everyone is suggesting.

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Exactly. Plus, according to the Neighborhood Watch Handbook you are not supposed to carry a weapon.

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

His "training" was in 1.awareness 2.observation. 3.Call 911 (Study up on Neighborhood Watch)

He overstepped his bounds....period.
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Kari1

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

To apprehend a "suspicious" person requires training and expertise along with the ablity to make a good judgement call which comes from that training plus experience.

NONE of which Zimmerman possessed.

His "training" was in 1.awareness 2.observation. 3.Call 911 (Study up on Neighborhood Watch)

He overstepped his bounds....period.

Exactly right. He had no right to chase down a kid who was doing nothing but talking to his girlfriend on the phone while walking to the store. PERIOD.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Are you sure? Hispanic isn't a race. At least officially in the US, which is where this event took place. The US census considers these as the racial classifications: American Indian, Alaskan Native, Asian or Pacific Islander, Black, and White. I don't know what race Zimmerman's mother is out of those choices but I guess you do.

FUNNY how things change, HUH? ONE day you are saying race is a social construct and not real, and the next day you are saying the opposite!

Just like the guy now that is facing the supreme court and, on monday argued something wasn't a tax and the next day was arguing that it WAS!

YEP, *****FUNNY*****!

Steve

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

I wholeheartedly agree - the case is pending.

I threw it out there, because I thought it rather a curious thing to do at this point in time...

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John Durham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I wholeheartedly agree - the case is pending.

I threw it out there, because I thought it rather a curious thing to do at this point in time...

When the prince soundtrack came out for the "batman" movie in the early nineties, I observed how quickly all the cola companies and hat makers and tshirt makers, and others jumped on what was sure to be a huge trend... and started putting pictures batman and the joker on their labels... Everything from cola cans to Twinkie wrappers...To roadside wagon jobbers selling silk screened tshirts.

They made a bunch of fast money ....SO QUICKLY....and the trend was over before most slower movers could even get started.

I get the timing thing. If this is to become a long drawn out nationally televised trial, then this thread will blow up.

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

Ironically, I'm working on a Trayvon Martin digital painting for a guy who wants to make hoodies and sell them. The exploitation is definitely a real issue.

You mean an image to be printed on the shirts such as with screen printing or heat transfer?

I am not surprised that people are exploiting this for profit now, beginning with the contemptible and shameless mainstream media (calling Zimmerman "White Hispanic" was very calculated for explosive effect and profitability).

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Here's an interesting and revealing article that does a good job at debunking the conspiracy theories about the media in this case, including the ridiculous one about describing Zimmerman as a "white" or "white hispanic":

Debunking Right-Wing ‘Media Conspiracy’ Theory Of Trayvon Martin Story | Mediaite

Next, Hayward dings the media for referring to George Zimmerman as "white" in news accounts as recently as March 19, because this case is clearly about the tragic marginalization of white people. What he fails to mention, either because he's lazy or lying, is that George Zimmerman was identified as a "white male" by the Sanford Police Department, not by the media...

As I suspect the sort of people that don't believe in white Hispanics may also not trust the tyrannical U.S. Census, it's worth fleshing out the reason why this is so. "White" is a racial designation, related to genetics. "Latin American" (or "Hispanic" as some prefer) is an ethnic designation, related to geography and culture. So people who grew up in Latin American countries or within one of many Latino cultures can come from any genetic background: black, Asian (you haven't lived until you've tried Cuban fried rice!), and yes, even white.

If anything, the New York Times did a good job in further describing George Zimmerman by adding the "hispanic" to the police report which just described him as a white male.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Here's an interesting and revealing article that does a good job at debunking the conspiracy theories about the media in this case, including the ridiculous one about describing Zimmerman as a "white" or "white hispanic":

Debunking Right-Wing 'Media Conspiracy' Theory Of Trayvon Martin Story | Mediaite

If anything, the New York Times did a good job in further describing George Zimmerman by adding the "hispanic" to the police report which just described him as a white male.

That website is SO heavily biased and speaks in such terms that, if it were taking about race, and the subject was one killed, they would be sent up the river without so much as a WHISPER of a trial!

I will be, and HAVE BEEN, the FIRST to say my mother was a HORRIBLE driver! But in one case she was CLEARLY not at fault! She had a bad concussion, and was not lucid AT ALL and the police pressured her to say SHE was at fault and even went in the ambulance! They also lied on the police report! I saw the police report AND the cars! They DON'T add up, and my mothers story DID! She was NOT at fault.

So I certainly don't trust them. And do we even know about the police man? mean if the roles were reversed(Where trayvon were alive, zimmerman dead, and the police said that trayvon murdered zimmerman), and the police man were white, the blacks would be screaming bloody murder and saying it was racism even WORSE than the are NOW maybe!

Steve

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

Ironically, I'm working on a Trayvon Martin digital painting for a guy who wants to make hoodies and sell them. The exploitation is definitely a real issue.

MAN, that is STUPID in SO many ways! Use of a person's likeness with no permission. Use of a picture that is incendiary. Use of a person where the product you are advertising is credited in part with his death. Use of a subject that leads to things that speak AGAINST buying the product.

GIVE ME A BREAK!

Steve

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

Dude, I'm just the artist. My client asked for a service and I'm providing it. I don't care what he does with it.

Yeah, I was going to say earlier, you are now the messenger, not the medium - or as Elton John liked to put it: Don't Shoot Me I'm Only the Piano Player - :rolleyes:
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Use of a person where the product you are advertising is credited in part with his death.

Credited by whom? Oh yeah. Geraldo. lol

Yes, it was the hoodie's fault! A hooded sweatshirt can make an innocent teen look like a criminal. Just like a suit and glasses can make Geraldo Rivera look like a journalist!...

I believe this is urgent! Congress must pass strict hoodie control legislation. It is terrifying to live in a country where you could walk into any Wal-Mart and buy a hoodie right off the rack! No background check! No seven day waiting period! Now, many parents keep their hoodies in an unlocked drawer where their kids can get at them. That is why my hoodies are hidden in the back of my gun closet! Plenty of room in there! Because i keep my guns in my pocket in case anyone comes for my hoodies!

The Word - Dressed to Kill - The Colbert Report - 2012-26-03 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Credited by whom? Oh yeah. Geraldo. lol

The Word - Dressed to Kill - The Colbert Report - 2012-26-03 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

Funny stuff Tim.

It looks like the initial story put out by local law enforcement is starting to unravel.

I think...

... they have made the decision that they can no longer cover for Mr. Z., no matter who his father is.

The locals have lost control of the situation to the state and maybe the feds also.

People complain about the media but...

Without the big media stink produced by national figures, this whole ugly affair would have been swept under the rug IMHO.

Now at least a through investigation of what happened is underway.

All The Best!!

TL
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seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Credited by whom? Oh yeah. Geraldo. lol

AND OTHERS! But HEY, it doesn't matter if DAFFY DUCK said it!
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seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

Dude, I'm just the artist. My client asked for a service and I'm providing it. I don't care what he does with it.

I wasn't blaming YOU!

Steve
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Dan Riffle

14 years ago

Here's what I'd *like* to think: the mother wants to trademark the terms not to profit personally, but to stop others from profiting from her son's death.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Here's what I'd *like* to think: the mother wants to trademark the terms not to profit personally, but to stop others from profiting from her son's death.

I was thinking that altruistic thought myself, as I read the headline...
But the skeptic in me was thinking there is a marketer somewhere putting out a line of hoodies at the same time.

It just looks like any moves of this type from anyone at this time would garner a negative reaction.
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

This most people already know...

1: Mr. Z. was told by the 911 service operator to not follow the subject but he did anyway.

2: The Florida legislator that sponsored the law said something to the effect of...

Once Mr. Z. decided to follow the subject, Mr. Z. stepped outside the law.

All The Best!!

TL

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

This most people already know...

1: Mr. Z. was told by the 911 service operator to not follow the subject but he did anyway.

2: The Florida legislator that sponsored the law said something to the effect of...

Once Mr. Z. decided to follow the subject, Mr. Z. stepped outside the law.

All The Best!!

TL

Then what happened? Who initiated the physical altercation? Is this a White/Black "thing"? This story is being painted like a Black vs White event when it seems to be over-zealous (non-White) neighborhood watch guy taking things to a tragic extreme.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

Then what happened? Who initiated the physical altercation? Is this a White/Black "thing"? This story is being painted like a Black vs White event when it seems to be over-zealous (non-White) neighborhood watch guy taking things to a tragic extreme.

The above is all I'm sure of.

Someone was talking to the kid on his cell phone when it happened.

As far as I'm concerned it's more of a right vs. wrong thing.

Many people believe the tapes show Mr. Z. uttered a racial epitaph, but I'm not sure.

If he did, then the feds can get into it because it would be a hate crime.

I sincerely hope Mr. Z. gets the justice he deserves.

TL

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thunderbird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

<snip>

I sincerely hope Mr. Z. gets the justice he deserves.

TL

I agree with that. Just let him be tried fairly rather than lynched on the basis of innuendo
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juhlieri

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The above is all I'm sure of.

Someone was talking to the kid on his cell phone when it happened.

As far as I'm concerned it's more of a right vs. wrong thing.

Many people believe the tapes show Mr. Z. uttered a racial epitaph, but I'm not sure.

If he did, then the feds can get into it because it would be a hate crime.

I sincerely hope Mr. Z. gets the justice he deserves.

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

They actually have 911 footage of a person calling the police and the screams of Trayvon Martin in the background for help. After the screams for help, then the shot was fired.

The screams were from Zimmerman, witnesses have verified this.

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

The full story hasn't been told yet that I know of, although I've heard a lot of conflicting "opinions." Anyone outside of those involved, or any possible witnesses, or law enforcement that has made up their mind about it has done so without regard for whatever the truth may be, IMO.

Frankly, I think much of the reporting on this story has been irresponsible at best.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

I merely think that the man should be held accountable for the crime!

He took a human life for crying out load regardless of race, color or creed and he hasn't been charged with anything! That's what I find utterly despicable in the whole thing.

Terra

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I merely think that the man should be held accountable for the crime!

He took a human life for crying out load regardless of race, color or creed and he hasn't been charged with anything! That's what I find utterly despicable in the whole thing.

Terra

Terra,
wait till all the facts come out.
I have seen several sources that state there are witnesses that the "victim" was literally beating the crap out of the "criminal" and literally smacking his head against the concrete. Is that true? I don't know, but I know the press would rather sensationalize the story than get to the truth.

I'm not judging either way,I'm going to wait till the "rush to be indignant" has passed and we might really find out what happened.

Edit: I just saw I basically posted the same thing Gary did. But maybe it bears posting again. Things are not always as they seem and especially they are not as the press represents them to us.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Terra,
wait till all the facts come out.
I have seen several sources that state there are witnesses that the "victim" was literally beating the crap out of the "criminal" and literally smacking his head against the concrete. Is that true? I don't know, but I know the press would rather sensationalize the story than get to the truth.

I'm not judging either way,I'm going to wait till the "rush to be indignant" has passed and we might really find out what happened.

Edit: I just saw I basically posted the same thing Gary did. But maybe it bears posting again. Things are not always as they seem and especially they are not as the press represents them to us.

Yes Kim,

I understand that fully.

The point is that a life has ended at his hands. My point was he should have been charged. If indeed it was self defense and I don't know if it was or not, but if it was, then the facts would be brought forth at his hearing/trial and he would be found not guilty, due to self defense.

I'm just saying, the lack of a charge whether it be murder or manslaughter, or accidental homicide, or whatever, seems irresponsible.

Perhaps it wouldn't have turned into a media circus if a charge of some kind had been made.

That's all.

Terra

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Yes Kim,

I understand that fully.

The point is that a life has ended at his hands. My point was he should have been charged. If indeed it was self defense and I don't know if it was or not, but if it was, then the facts would be brought forth at his hearing/trial and he would be found not guilty, due to self defense.

I'm just saying, the lack of a charge whether it be murder or manslaughter, or accidental homicide, or whatever, seems irresponsible.

Perhaps it wouldn't have turned into a media circus if a charge of some kind had been made.

That's all.

Terra

Well, hopefully we can agree to disagree on this one. This is a media circus dream and a dream set-up for those that want to create FUD (fear,uncertainty and doubt). I don't think for one second that being charged and/or arrested would have prevented this media circus. In today's society let the facts be damned,
Anyway, as I said before, I am reserving judgement til more facts come out I just wanted to say that I don't think arresting someone would have stopped the media feeding frenzy or the other people I wont name who want to turn this into something it isn't.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Well, hopefully we can agree to disagree on this one. This is a media circus dream and a dream set-up for those that want to create FUD (fear,uncertainty and doubt). I don't think for one second that being charged and/or arrested would have prevented this media circus. In today's society let the facts be damned,
Anyway, as I said before, I am reserving judgement til more facts come out I just wanted to say that I don't think arresting someone would have stopped the media feeding frenzy or the other people I wont name who want to turn this into something it isn't.

We can certainly agree to disagree by all means.

My opinion is just that...my opinion and is pure speculation on my part.

This all just makes me wonder whatever happened to responsible reporting? I mean some of the stuff that is coming out I would expect to find in a rag paper or magazine, but mainstream media?

What the heck?

What saddens me is that the loss of life seems to have taken a backseat to race accusations by certain ones with an agenda and I find it just as stupid and disgusting as someone taking a stick and stirring up a bee's nest.

If some of them get stung, the deserve it.

Terra

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

This most people already know...

1: Mr. Z. was told by the 911 service operator to not follow the subject but he did anyway.

2: The Florida legislator that sponsored the law said something to the effect of...

Once Mr. Z. decided to follow the subject, Mr. Z. stepped outside the law.

All The Best!!

TL

WRONG! Once he followed the subject, he stepped out of the confines of THAT law!

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philipdwyer

14 years ago

I just want to know why this case is such a bigger story than Marion Hedges left fighting for life after 'kids throw shopping cart on her' | Mail Online
or
Hoodie-wearing gunmen kill 1, wound 5 in Bobby Rush's Chicago district*|*American Vision News

Hmmmmmm. Why the absurd love of one dead person but none for bystanders or passersby who we know are actually innocent. Where is Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson asking for 'Justice for Marion Hedges'?

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by philipdwyer

I just want to know why this case is such a bigger story than Marion Hedges left fighting for life after 'kids throw shopping cart on her' | Mail Online
or
Hoodie-wearing gunmen kill 1, wound 5 in Bobby Rush's Chicago district*|*American Vision News

Hmmmmmm. Why the absurd love of one dead person but none for bystanders or passersby who we know are actually innocent. Where is Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson asking for 'Justice for Marion Hedges'?

Because Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are not really about justice. They only land in stories that help push an agenda and lifestyle that can only be paid for by taking advantage of and fueling the hatred of people when they are in their weakest moment.

They are the ambulance chasers of the Political justice system. It's sad really, that people haven't figured out their game in all these years.

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KimW

14 years ago

We disagree on this one Tim. White is normally considered WASP,white anglo saxon protestant(sp?) and he doesn't look that way to me. I can look and immediately tell he is hispanic,or at least has a lot of hispanic in him.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Maybe at this point it would just be smarter to put a gag order on the case - but then we would have people screaming for transparency...(what are they trying to hide?) so you really can't win either way -

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thunderbird

14 years ago

There are lots of "drops" in me, lol.

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garyv

14 years ago

The other thing I find disturbing is the obvious photoshopping of George Zimmerman. If you look at the original photos of him the background is a more brownish-orange or tan color.

However more recent photos of him have this exact same image - but with a blue background. Something that might happen to the background if you try and alter colors elsewhere in the picture...

If that's not a photoshopped image, then I don't know what is. And for what purpose?

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

The other thing I find disturbing is the obvious photoshopping of George Zimmerman. If you look at the original photos of him the background is a more brownish-orange or tan color.

However more recent photos of him have this exact same image - but with a blue background. Something that might happen to the background if you try and alter colors elsewhere in the picture...

If that's not a photoshopped image, then I don't know what is. And for what purpose?

Do you happen to know the sources of these two photos? An interesting observation and a logical inference - but as you say, by whom...and to what end?

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David Maschke

14 years ago

Let's have some fun and get swept away with the media circus.

Here's a little music to set the mood

Circus Theme music - YouTube

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

We Have Arrived at an Equitable Solution:

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

(*update: Geraldo Rivera backpedals on Trayvon Martin Hoodie Comments)
"I apologize to anyone offended by what one prominent black conservative called my ‘very practical and potentially life-saving campaign urging black and Hispanic parents not to let their children go around wearing hoodies.'"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ef=mostpopular

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Reports are out...

... that the lead detective in the case didn't believe Mr. Z's version of events and wanted to charge him with manslaughter but the local DA declined.

He allegedly filed an affidavit to that effect.

I wonder if it's true and if so, what does it mean?

TL

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Reports are out...

... that the lead detective in the case didn't believe Mr. Z's version of events and wanted to charge him with manslaughter but the local DA declined.

He allegedly filed an affidavit to that effect.

I wonder if it's true and if so, what does it mean?

TL

Saw that too. I also read that the governor stepped in early on. Whats THAT about?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...to-charge.html

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Saw that too. I also read that the governor stepped in early on. Whats THAT about?

Sanford cops wanted to charge Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin case - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

I'm not sure when the Gov stepped in.

Was it before the media storm or after??

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Reports are out...

... that the lead detective in the case didn't believe Mr. Z's version of events and wanted to charge him with manslaughter but the local DA declined.

He allegedly filed an affidavit to that effect.

I wonder if it's true and if so, what does it mean?

TL

I heard that story too,but the version I heard said the detective was overruled by the states attorneys office.

It means that the states attorney didn't want to charge him.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

The report states:

The neighborhood watch volunteer, who was licensed to carry a 9 mm semiautomatic handgun in a holster, was recorded on the police line muttering profanities and a possible racial slur. He tailed Trayvon until the boy took off running.
Trayvon’s attorneys say the dead teen’s cell phone records show he was on the phone with his girlfriend, who told lawyers that Trayvon was alarmed that someone was following him. She heard him ask Zimmerman why he was pursuing him, then heard a scuffle before the line went dead.
Zimmerman told police that Trayvon approached him from behind and attacked him. An unnamed police source told the Orlando Sentinel that Zimmerman said Trayvon decked him with one punch and slammed his head on the concrete.
The two tussled on the ground, and Zimmerman took the gun from his waist and shot Trayvon once in the chest.
Zimmerman, Lee told The Herald two weeks ago, was able to articulate that he was in “reasonable fear” of great bodily harm or death. Witness statements and a doctor’s report corroborated his injuries, Lee said. A police report said he had a bloody nose and a grass-stained shirt.

First Zimmerman was perusing Trayvon, then suddenly somehow Trayvon was "behind" Zimmerman and jumped him. :confused:

Since when if someone punches you in the nose and wrestles with you on the ground is it acceptable to pull a gun and shoot them? That is some scarey stuff right there.

It seems that with details given that Trayvon can plead self defense for punching the guy who alarmed him and was following him in the dark because he feared for his life.

Oh wait, he can't...he no longer is among the living!

Seriously, what the heck is THAT?

Terra

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Reports are out...

... that the lead detective in the case didn't believe Mr. Z's version of events and wanted to charge him with manslaughter but the local DA declined.

He allegedly filed an affidavit to that effect.

I wonder if it's true and if so, what does it mean?

TL

I read that this morning and wondered the same thing...Zimmerman Senior is a former circuit court judge - I wonder if he had any pull...

They're really going to have to add a new class in backpedaling at Spin Doctor school...

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I read that this morning and wondered the same thing...Zimmerman Senior is a former circuit court judge - I wonder if he had any pull...

They're really going to have to add a new class in backpedaling at Spin Doctor school...

Who you know (or who you are) can go a long way sometimes...

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KimW

14 years ago

I don't carry a gun but if anyone punched me in the face,started banging my head against the cement sidewalk, I would use ANY means possible to defend myself.I would not stop and think "Gee,is this the exact amount of force needed to protect myself?"

Now, I am not defending Zimmerman,and if the FACTS prove he was in the wrong to defends himself then I am all for any justified punishment that gets metered out to him.

As it is,not a single one of us commenting here in this thread have ANY first hand knowledge of any of the events that went down,and I believe none of us ever will.

All we can do is conjecture.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

As it is,not a single one of us commenting here in this thread have ANY first hand knowledge of any of the events that went down,and I believe none of us ever will.

All we can do is conjecture.

And this right here folks is the one thing that can't be debated in this thread.

Terra

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

I'm not sure if we covered this but reportedly...

...Mr. Z. was no angel himself...

George Zimmerman, Son of a Retired Judge, Has 3 Closed Arrests:

According to a records search on George, he was previously arrested for...

... domestic violence,...

... resisting an officer without violence and most shockingly,...

and...

... resisting an officer with violence —...

... a felony charge that surely could have landed him in prison.

Reportedly...

All three of those arrests, however, were mysteriously closed with no semblance of charges for the Florida resident.

So how was someone with a violent past including...

... that of battery against an officer able to carry a 9 mm handgun?

Interesting...

TL

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm not sure if we covered this but reportedly...

...Mr. Z. was no angel himself...

George Zimmerman, Son of a Retired Judge, Has 3 Closed Arrests:

According to a records search on George, he was previously arrested for...

... domestic violence,...

... resisting an officer without violence and most shockingly,...

and...

... resisting an officer with violence --...

... a felony charge that surely could have landed him in prison.

Reportedly...

All three of those arrests, however, were mysteriously closed with no semblance of charges for the Florida resident.

So how was someone with a violent past including...

... that of battery against an officer able to carry a 9 mm handgun?

Interesting...

TL

Like I said...

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Ah, the good old days...
when the 'neighborhood watch' was there, to remind you to close your drapes in the event of an air raid...

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

WASHINGTON -- Rep. Bobby Rush (D-Ill.) was thrown off the House floor Wednesday after wearing a hoodie and sunglasses in protest of the Trayvon Martin shooting in Florida.

Trayvon Martin: Rep. Bobby Rush Thrown Off House Floor For Wearing Hoodie

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

FOX NEWS CONTINUES SEARCH FOR CONNECTION BETWEEN LEGENDARY SINGER BOB DYLAN AND TRAYVON MARTIN SHOOTING -

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KimW

14 years ago

Why do people keep adding their own perceptions to this? The truth should stand on its own,with the posters here making variations to it to suit their own agenda. :rolleyes:

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Kay King

14 years ago

Kim - I agree

The truth about Treyvon is in who he really was - and that is neither the innocent child originally presented or the problematic teen now being discussed.

The truth about Zimmerman isn't in the background color of a photo but in who he is as a person in real life.

The truth about this event is in the timeline of what happened - not in conjecture of what may have happened.

When you take a side before the truth has been fully documented - you begin to argue your "side" instead of facts of the case. It becomes useless argument.

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Why do people keep adding their own perceptions to this? The truth should stand on its own,with the posters here making variations to it to suit their own agenda. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Kay King

Kim - I agree

The truth about Treyvon is in who he really was - and that is neither the innocent child originally presented or the problematic teen now being discussed.

The truth about Zimmerman isn't in the background color of a photo but in who he is as a person in real life.

The truth about this event is in the timeline of what happened - not in conjecture of what may have happened.

When you take a side before the truth has been fully documented - you begin to argue your "side" instead of facts of the case. It becomes useless argument.

...but it sure reveals who among us thinks they know the truth without full knowledge of the facts. The legal system, while imperfect, was designed to prevent lynch mobs, but the lynch mob mentality is alive and well. Hopefully truth and justice will prevail, wherever they may lead. I'm sure the hell not going to pretend I know where that should be based on media reports and agenda-driven opinions.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

...but it sure lets reveals who among us thinks they know the truth without full knowledge of the facts. The legal system, while imperfect, was designed to prevent lynch mobs, but the lynch mob mentality is alive and well. Hopefully truth and justice will prevail, wherever they may lead. I'm sure the hell not going to pretend I know where that should be based on media reports and agenda-driven opinions.

The "Lynch Mob" is an American Tradition...think of it as a "Flash Mob" - with rope.

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Kay King 14 years ago

Can't thank you Dennis as I've run out!

reveals who among us thinks

....and which ones don't?
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yukon

Banned 14 years ago

If the neighborhood watch guy was black, this news story would have never made it out of the county the incident took place.

How about that congressman that isn't smart enough to follow House rules.

First Read - Congressman escorted from House after wearing hoodie in Trayvon Martin tribute

I'm sure he'll sue someone because, well, that's his right. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, it's sad the boy was killed, but this stuff happens all the time with black on black, white on white, yellow on yellow, green on green (say what?) violence.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

I agree.

But I'll add that we also have a cover-up mob.

And will the "Taking The High Ground" mob please spare me?

BTW...

Without the so-called lynch mob this killing would have been swept under the proverbial rug and Mr. Z. would have "walked" without justice running its course.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I agree.

But I'll add that we also have a cover-up mob.

And will the "High Ground" mob spare me?

BTW...

Without the so-called lynch mob this killing would have been swept under the proverbial rug and Mr. Z. would have "walked" without justice running its course.

All The Best!!

TL

He may still walk and justice may still run its course. All the facts aren't in yet.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Once again, it might be a very good idea to let investigators look at the facts instead of trying the man in the press.

I am amused at the way this thread regurgitates whatever the press says.

They are professional liars.

Why has the girlfriend not been interviewed??? Her account of the events should be crucial to this investigation.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

I have no idea. Perhaps you should run the investigation.

Why has no arrest been made with federal investigators on the case?

Perhaps they know things we do not.

I'm simply pointing out facts as put forth by the Zimmermans.

I just watched part of an interview onn CNN with Zimmerman's brother. I searched until I found exactly what he said on National Tv. Here it is:

Ouote" "George was out of breath, he was barely conscious, his last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass so that if he was banged one more time he wouldn't be wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother," Zimmerman Jr. said. "There would have been George dead had he not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment when he was being disarmed by his assailant."

On Wednesday, Robert Zimmerman Sr., George's father, also spoke for the first time and supported his son's self-defense claim.

"Trayvon Martin said something to the effect of 'you're gonna die now' or 'you're gonna die tonight,'" Robert Zimmerman Sr. said. "He continued to beat George, and at some point, George pulled his pistol and did what he did."

A few observations here. Zimmeman was not taken away on a stretcher to the hospital - he was given first aide at the scene then taken to the police station.

Looking at the video - for someone that sustained the above mentioned injuries, seems he made a miraculous recovery in record time. He's walking just fine without any aid.

Again, where's the blood? I know Kim made mention of it, but even if he sustained a broken nose that didn't bleed, there should be visible signs of the injuries sustained in this life-threatening attack.

Finally, the way it's described, Tayron was shot at very close range - so where's the blood? Zimmerrman should have blood on his body and clothing.

If someone's on top of me beating the crap out of me and I shoot them, it's physically impossible for me to not have blood on my clothing etc.

If the beating was this severe, why did the Funeral Director say there were no visible scraps or scratches on Tayron's hands nor his body - only a gunshot wound.

Zimmerman left the police station wearing the same clothing he arrived in. The police didn't even confiscate his clothing.

Public records show George Zimmerman, was previously arrested for domestic violence, resisting an officer without violence and most shockingly, resisting an officer with violence -- a felony charge that could have landed him in prison.

All three of those arrests, however, were mysteriously closed with no semblance of charges for the Florida resident. So how was someone with a violent past including that of battery against an officer able to carry a 9 mm handgun? Maybe that's a question Robert Zimmerman should answer.

Would you feel safe letting your kids walk/play in the streets there?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

You see?

That's the kind of crap the media spoon feeds the American public.

It is not unusual for a prosecutor not to take on a case unless she believes she can win it. It happens in every city in the USA every day.

There's no mysterious cabal behind it, no white-hooded evil racists, nary an alien intruder.

The most probable reason Zimmerman has not been arrested is because the prosecution cannot make a case against him.

No, not even federal investigators who have been imbued with governmental psychic powers to determine the thoughts in Zimmerman's head at the time of the incident have arrested him.

FYI...

The state senator that sponsored the law said to the effect of....

...when Mr. Z. decided to follow the victim - after being told not to, he, Mr. Z. stepped outside of the stand your ground law.

I'm betting...

The lazy local DA didn't want to cross the Dad - a retired judge and they probably thought the situation would stay local.

The lead detective wanted to charge Mr. Z. and said he's looking forward for the truth to come out.

BTW...

The investigation by non locals has not run its course.

The new DA appointed by the gov has tried and won against the Stand your ground defense and the Feds wait in the wings.

So don't count your chickens just yet Mr. smartie pants.

TL

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

FYI...

The state senator that sponsored the law said to the effect of....

...when Mr. Z. decided to follow the victim - after being told not to, he, Mr. Z. stepped outside of the stand your ground law.

I'm betting...

The lazy local DA didn't want to cross the Dad - a retired judge and they probably thought the situation would stay local.

The lead detective wanted to charge Mr. Z. and said he's looking forward for the truth to come out.

BTW...

The investigation by non locals has not run its course.

The new DA appointed by the gov has tried and won against the Stand your ground defense and the Feds wait in the wings.

So don't count your chickens just yet Mr. smartie pants.

TL

I haven't heard THAT since ummm,.....must have been fourth grade.

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salegurus 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

FYI...

So don't count your chickens just yet Mr. smartie pants.

TL

"Smartie Pants"
Is that like the smart phone of the fashion industry?
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

FYI...

The state senator that sponsored the law said to the effect of....

...when Mr. Z. decided to follow the victim - after being told not to, he, Mr. Z. stepped outside of the stand your ground law.

Link please?

I'm betting...

The lazy local DA didn't want to cross the Dad - a retired judge and they probably thought the situation would stay local.

How dare you call the DA lazy. Do you know him personally? And you also don't know if the local DA was the least bit concerned about the father being a retired judge and not may or may not have been a factor in anything,the fact is that most cases on a local level are expected to remain on a local level. Otherwise our daily newspapers would be a thousand pages long every day.

The lead detective wanted to charge Mr. Z. and said he's looking forward for the truth to come out.

Wait, I think we all are waiting for the truth to come out,not just the local lead detective.

BTW...

The investigation by non locals has not run its course.

The new DA appointed by the gov has tried and won against the Stand your ground defense and the Feds wait in the wings.

I bet that makes you happy.

So don't count your chickens just yet Mr. smartie pants.

Ah, maturity at its finest. Well played Sir.

TL

Seems the facts are no longer important to some people.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Seems the facts are no longer important to some people.

You've done quite a bit of speculating during this thread yourself.

Here are links to statement by FL. state legilators who sponsored the "Stand Your Ground" law.

Here's the link of one of them... ( Guess there were co-sponsors of the law )

Check out the end of the 1st paragraph and then the 2nd.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-bu...nd-your-ground

Check out the 3rd paragraph for this gent.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...round-law-says

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

You've done quite a bit of speculating during this thread yourself.

I haven't accused anyone of speculating that I am aware of.
I'm not sure what you mean or what you are referring to.I have stated opinions and facts. And also on numerous occasions stated that anything we say can only be pure conjecture on our part as none of us were there or no the true facts.

Here's the link of one of them... ( Guess there were co-sponsors of the law )

Check out the end of the 1st paragraph and then the 2nd.

Fla Dem chair Rod Smith co-sponsored 'stand your ground' | Florida politics blog: The Buzz | Tampa Bay Times

Of course these politicians are going to backpedal and claim this was never the intent of the law,they are under fire. They may be telling the truth,they may not be. They are politicians under attack and their goal is to stay in office. None of them are going to say I was wrong to sponsor such a law,I think its best that I resign.

Check out the 3rd paragraph for this gent.

What the Florida 'Stand Your Ground' Law Says - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com

Um, ok, this is a opinion page. Not one based on facts,but made up of an opinion. That might as well have been posted in this thread.

All The Best!!

TL

Of course, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record (remember what those things are?) but all I care about is the real facts and justice being served.
But that is for the courts to decide,based on provable facts.

Many in this thread have already found him guilty without knowing the facts and that is completely contrary to what I believe in.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Of course, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record (remember what those things are?) but all I care about is the real facts and justice being served.
But that is for the courts to decide,based on provable facts.

Many in this thread have already found him guilty without knowing the facts and that is completely contrary to what I believe in.

Whatever...

I'm not through with this thread but I'm through with you in this thread.

LOL!!

Yes, your withering search for the truth has won the day.

All The Best !!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Whatever...

I'm not through with this thread but I'm through with you in this thread.

LOL!!

Yes, your withering search for the truth has won the day.

All The Best !!

TL

Oh say it aint so TL!

"withering search for the truth?" I take it that means to you damn the truth. That truth or facts don't matter to you?
Why am I not surprised?

But while you may not be, I think many other intelligent people that are posting here are interested in the truth. Many of them I consider friends and feel we can disagree on things without taking offense at each other or trying to insult each other.
Its a shame you can't.

All The Best!!
KimW

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

FYI...

The state senator that sponsored the law said to the effect of....

...when Mr. Z. decided to follow the victim - after being told not to, he, Mr. Z. stepped outside of the stand your ground law.

I'm betting...

The lazy local DA didn't want to cross the Dad - a retired judge and they probably thought the situation would stay local.

The lead detective wanted to charge Mr. Z. and said he's looking forward for the truth to come out.

BTW...

The investigation by non locals has not run its course.

The new DA appointed by the gov has tried and won against the Stand your ground defense and the Feds wait in the wings.

So don't count your chickens just yet Mr. smartie pants.

TL

I have to say, it is AMAZING! When a WHITE, or APPARENT WHITE, is accused of hurting or embarrasing a person of what you see as a more obvious non white, you will DEMAND that they convicted, etc.... With NO evidence! If the reverse is true, you demand the opposite.

And you say OTHERS are racist. WOW!

BTW a number of ***LAWYERS*** have mentioned a florida law that is akin to a law in the CONSTITUTION! Did you know that they consider a person to be arrested when they consider a person to be arrested!?!?!?!?

And the US demands a "speedy trial"? Florida DEFINES speedy trial as, IIRC, 175 days!

****SO**** if they ARREST zimmerman when they have no evidence, and the jury tries them reasonably, arresting him early could turn a 15 year sentence into a <175 DAY one!

OH, you say, there is no statute of limitations on murder! WRONG! Once he is through the trial, JEOPARDY has attached, and he can't be retried!

HEY, maybe zimmerman would LIKE to be arrested! Apparently, they don't feel he has been yet. OH YEAH, they ARE required to charge him before the arrest him.

And don't forget the "equal treatment clause"! If the law is changed, it is supposed to affect MINORITIES as well!

Steve

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waterotter

14 years ago

Certainly doesn't look like Zimmerman's head sustained any injuries:

George Zimmerman on Police Surveillance | Video - ABC News

"The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose, and after medical attention it was decided that he was in good enough condition to travel in a police cruiser to the Sanford, Fla., police station for questioning.

His lawyer later insisted that Zimmerman's nose had been broken in his scuffle with 17-year-old Martin.

In the video an officer is seen pausing to look at the back of Zimmerman's head, but no abrasions or blood can be seen in the video and he did not check into the emergency room following the police questioning.It was also reported that he didn't go to the hospital."

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KimW

14 years ago

I don't think the video is clear enough to show abrasions and I didn't see the officer check him over,but what surprised and amazed me is the way the officers let him walk unattended. Most of the time an officer will assist you in and out of the vehicle and then escort you with one hand on your cuffed hands and the other on a shoulder or neck to control you and stop you from trying anything.
As for the medical attention, it said he received some before even getting in the cruiser which means they didn't feel he needed a hospital visit.
If in fact his nose was broken, he would have had to go to a hospital or a physician at some point to get it set. In other words there should be medical proof of this claim.

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KimW

14 years ago

By the way, another one that wants to stir up the bees nest.

Elderly Couple In Fear Over Spike Lee Tweet | The Smoking Gun

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

By the way, another one that wants to stir up the bees nest.

Elderly Couple In Fear Over Spike Lee Tweet | The Smoking Gun

A lawsuit may be in order.

TL
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Dennis Gaskill 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

By the way, another one that wants to stir up the bees nest.

Elderly Couple In Fear Over Spike Lee Tweet | The Smoking Gun

Another irresponsible jackass who thinks "his" truth is the truth. I hope people can see how utterly IGNORANT it is make premature judgments based on hearsay, rumor, opinion, and personal agendas.
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waterotter

14 years ago

Kim, I'm trying to look at this from both sides, but it scares the crap out of me that Zimmerman is, to this day, still allowed to carry a loaded, hidden handgun on the streets. He has an arrest record and a history of violence.

How many more people need to die?

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KimW

14 years ago

Jody, I don't think he is currently allowed to carry a loaded hidden gun,but I could be wrong.
I too am trying to see both sides. As far as his arrest record, there seems to be something underhanded going on there,as was posted earlier in this thread,his daddy was somebody and as sad as it is,who you know does count.

I could name many people that have killed famous people that had a history of mental illness and violence that were able to get guns with no problems.

And of course I don't want a killer lose on the streets, but I am still not sure that he is totally guilty,and by that I mean there are too many other facts to consider and the truth isn't all out yet. For instance the "victim" supposedly just was bragging about joining a gang.At least that's what I heard,is it true or just another rumour being spread around ,I don't know. The victim was no angel either. Isn't it strange how the original pictures the press were showing were of a sweet little boy,not at all like how he was now?

As I said, if Zimmerman's nose was really broken,then there should be plenty of ways to proof it,and give some credibility to his story.If it isn't thenpart of his his defense of fearing for his life can fall to the wayside.

I don't want to see a guilty man go free, but I also don't want to see someone railroaded.

TL: I hope they sue the hell out of Spike Lee. His actions have literally put an elderly couple in danger.

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Kim, I know we don't know all the facts in this case yet, but I think it's pretty safe to call Trayvon a victim. He is dead after all. At the very least he is a victim of violence.

Originally Posted by KimW

For instance the "victim" ...
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waterotter

14 years ago

This article is worthwhile reading: Brady Campaign Prez: Zimmerman is Gun Lobby's Dark Vision for U.S.

"In Florida, being armed in public is such a casual formality that law enforcement does not issue the license to carry loaded, concealed gun; that is done by the Department of Agriculture - the same agency charged with issuing permits to pick tomatoes or transport livestock. Their website is FreshFromFlorida.com. You can use it to get a permit to carry a loaded hidden gun without ever leaving your house. Providing your social security number is voluntary."

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KimW

14 years ago

I hate to say it but Florida is not the only state like that here in the US. I don't know if you have ever been here,but our country is full of a gun sub culture. Just a few years ago our ex Vice President shot a person while out hunting.

I don't own any guns myself,but I certainly grew up around many people that did. And a lot of the people used them to hunt.And what the hunted and killed they ate. And there are still people who use their guns for that purpose.
And I fully support their right to do that.

But I certainly don't see the need for ANY person to own many of the guns the general public is now allowed to buy. You can buy Military Assault Rifles. You can buy kits to turn your regular rifle into a 50 round automatic firing gun. What does any individual need weapons like that for?

A few years back we had a madman go crazy at a state college. He had already been declared to have mental problems yet he was able to buy a gun anyway.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Originally Posted by waterotter

This article is worthwhile reading: Brady Campaign Prez: Zimmerman is Gun Lobby's Dark Vision for U.S.

"In Florida, being armed in public is such a casual formality that law enforcement does not issue the license to carry loaded, concealed gun; that is done by the Department of Agriculture - the same agency charged with issuing permits to pick tomatoes or transport livestock. Their website is FreshFromFlorida.com. You can use it to get a permit to carry a loaded hidden gun without ever leaving your house. Providing your social security number is voluntary."

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

But I certainly don't see the need for ANY person to own many of the guns the general public is now allowed to buy. You can buy Military Assault Rifles.

Military assault rifle is a *****HEAVILY***** corrupted term. It could now apply to almost any rifle EVER MADE! They have even said my little 17 shot SEMIautomatic weapon is a military assault weapon. GIVE ME A BREAK! Outside of the fact that you don't have to reload the chamber and cock the gun at every shot, it is NO different from any regular gun. Holding down the trigger WILL NOT and CAN NOT cause it to act like a machine gun!

You can buy kits to turn your regular rifle into a 50 round automatic firing gun. What does any individual need weapons like that for?

It was my understanding that THOSE have been illegal for quite some time.

A few years back we had a madman go crazy at a state college. He had already been declared to have mental problems yet he was able to buy a gun anyway.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Just more evidence that the government is NOT doing its job! I had to WAIT to get MY gun, and that was supposed to be because they were checking me out!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Reports are... ( possibly another net rumor )

The lead detective who wanted to charge Mr. Z. that fateful night has said something to the effect of...

he's looking forward to the truth coming out.

TL

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

I just watched an interview with Zimmerman Sr, and he sat there stating hearsay from his son and stating it as fact.

He was just a shadow and only a side profile was shown. He said his son was once an alter boy.

Like that proves anything? :confused:

He also said that this incident is worse than anything he experienced in Vietnam. Seriously? :confused:

I wish the media would just drop the sensationalism and let the incident play out in the legal arena, then just report the outcome.

<sigh> Just a pipe dream, I know.

Terra

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I just watched an interview with Zimmerman Sr, and he sat there stating hearsay from his son and stating it as fact.

He was just a shadow and only a side profile was shown. He said his son was once an alter boy.

Like that proves anything? :confused:

He also said that this incident is worse than anything he experienced in Vietnam. Seriously? :confused:

I wish the media would just drop the sensationalism and let the incident play out in the legal arena, then just report the outcome.

<sigh> Just a pipe dream, I know.

Terra

I would expect Zimmerman's parents to believe their son and try to cast him in a good light, just as I'd expect Martin's parents to do the same thing. I don't think we can hold a parent's feet to the fire for standing by their children. I wish your pipe dream would come true though.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

I would expect Zimmerman's parents to believe their son and try to cast him in a good light, just as I'd expect Martin's parents to do the same thing. I don't think we can hold a parent's feet to the fire for standing by their children. I wish your pipe dream would come true though.

I would expect the same thing and would never want to set anyone's feet on fire.

Sorry if that was what I portrayed. I just wish the media would stop sensationalizing and going after every angle with only their ratings in mind.

You could tell from the reporter's questions that she was leading with those questions that she knew would provoke answers that would incite others.

She specifically asked George Sr. the questions that led to his answers I used as examples in my previous post.

That's why I made those comments. They aren't really relevant to the incident. And hence my sarcasm, or lack of showing it there, lol!

I think it is reporting at its worst and shows that even the media is trying to cash in on an unfortunate incident.

Terra

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waterotter

14 years ago

Kim, we have guns here too

! Our gun laws are very, very strict here and guns are used for hunting wild game. Guns also have to be stored in a locked unit when not in use. You can't have a gun laying around inside your house. If someone broke in and stole that, the gun owner would be at fault as the weapon was not locked up.

I don't own a gun - if I did, I couldn't carry a gun in my purse or vehicle - totally illegal here, regardless if it's a registered weapon or not.

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John Durham

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Once again, it might be a very good idea to let investigators look at the facts instead of trying the man in the press.

I am amused at the way this thread regurgitates whatever the press says.

They are professional liars.

Man I wish they would make the DHS have trial in front of the press... that would end my problems NOW.... County Judges can hide in little corners of America and do whatever they want with no one looking it seems, ignore the constitution...whatever! And their states protect them first not you and I...

This is a generalization of course.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Spike Lee Apologizes For Retweeting Wrong Address For Zimmerman:

I think that's all he's apologizing for - retweeting the WRONG address.

Spike Lee Apologizes For Retweeting Wrong Address For Zimmerman

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yukon

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Spike Lee Apologizes For Retweeting Wrong Address For Zimmerman:

I think that's all he's apologizing for - retweeting the WRONG address.

Spike Lee Apologizes For Retweeting Wrong Address For Zimmerman

Lol, you'll have that sometimes.

The Office - Phyllis Busiest / Bushiest Beaver...

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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

Just heard on the radio, so did a search and found this: Sanford police sought arrest warrant early on in Trayvon Martin case

Police had requested an arrest warrant early on for Zimmerman but it hasn't been issued. Also, a doctor has corroborated Zimmerman's injuries.

There are probably other sites reporting the same thing buy now. If true, it's more evidence that the whole story isn't being told and that the media has been misreporting things. If it's not true, it's still evidence of misreporting.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Just heard on the radio, so did a search and found this: Sanford police sought arrest warrant early on in Trayvon Martin case

Police had requested an arrest warrant early on for Zimmerman but it hasn't been issued. Also, a doctor has corroborated Zimmerman's injuries.

There are probably other sites reporting the same thing buy now. If true, it's more evidence that the whole story isn't being told and that the media has been misreporting things. If it's not true, it's still evidence of misreporting.

Reported yesterday.

See post #50 of this thread.

It may be evidence of a cover up by Sanford locals that is beginning to unravel.

TL

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Dennis Gaskill 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Reported yesterday.

See post #50 of this thread.

It may be evidence of a cover up by Sanford locals that is beginning to unravel.

TL

Ok, I was in the hospital a good part of yesterday. It was the first I'd heard it.
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- TLTheLiberator 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill
  
  Ok, I was in the hospital a good part of yesterday. I was the first I'd heard it.
  
  Sorry about you being in the hospital.
  
  I hope everything is OK.
  
  All The Best!!
  
  TL
  
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Dennis Gaskill

14 years ago

George Zimmerman was identified as a "white male" by the Sanford Police Department, not by the media...

That's a good point. Again, it just shows the sloppy reporting that's being going on, both in Zimmerman's defense and against him. Any fair minded person will wait for the facts to come in and not make uninformed and hasty judgments because it fits their biases or agenda.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

FYI...

3 days before Trayvon's parents found his body.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

FYI...

3 days before Trayvon's parents found his body.

I hate to sound dense but what does this mean?

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I hate to sound dense but what does this mean?

I was a little curious about that too...

Now there is another story re-surfacing somewhat related to this one, that happened in November. No charges were filed.

Killed At Home: White Plains, NY Police Called Out On Medical Alert Shoot Dead Black Veteran, 68

Or here's another incident that happened last weekend -
911 caller arrested after Pasadena police fatally shoot teen
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...lly-shoot-teen
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I hate to sound dense but what does this mean?

Sorry,

The locals kept Trayvons body for 3 days without even trying to notify the parents.

I believe the parents found him only because they filed a missing persons report and Trayvon fit the description.

The assholes in the local police station could have easily used his cell phone to call someone but they didn't.

TL

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Sorry,

The locals kept Trayvons body for 3 days without even trying to notify the parents.

I believe the parents found him because they filed a missing persons report and Trayvon fit the description.

The assholes in the local police station could have easily used his cell phone to call someone but they didn't.
TL

WOW! I did not know that...that's a pretty huge dereliction of duty...

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

They could have also simply knocked on some doors in the apartment or condo complex to ask around but didn't bother doing that either. It wouldn't have taken much to find his relatives who lived there.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Sorry,

The locals kept Trayvons body for 3 days without even trying to notify the parents.

I believe the parents found him only because they filed a missing persons report and Trayvon fit the description.

The assholes in the local police station could have easily used his cell phone to call someone but they didn't.

TL

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Sorry,

The locals kept Trayvons body for 3 days without even trying to notify the parents.

I believe the parents found him only because they filed a missing persons report and Trayvon fit the description.

The assholes in the local police station could have easily used his cell phone to call someone but they didn't.

TL

That is evil, if that is what happened, and I sure wouldn't want defend or appear to be defending such behavior in any way. Right now, rumors are likely getting mixed up with facts. It really needs to be taken to court where the facts and any evidence related to the case can be sorted out.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

That is evil, if that is what happened, and I sure wouldn't want defend or appear to be defending such behavior in any way.

Right now, rumors are likely getting mixed up with facts. It really needs to be taken to court where the facts and any evidence related to the case can be sorted out.

Bird...

According to a story on ABC News site...

Martin's body was left in the morgue for three days, classified as a "John Doe."

Here's the link to the story...

Police Chief in Trayvon Martin Case Resigns 'Temporarily' - ABC News

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Spike Lee apologizes to Florida couple for retweeting their address -

He seems to be apologizing for tweeting the wrong address, but does not seem to address how completely irresponsible it was for him to do that in the first place - even it it had been the right address. It put innocent people in danger.

U.S. News - Spike Lee apologizes to Florida couple for retweeting their address

The mistake forced David and Elaine McClain, a couple in their 70s whose home is about four miles from where Martin was killed, to flee to a hotel.

He's lucky it wasn't the home of John McClane - we might have had a new sequel to Die Hard -

Yippee-ki-yo Spike!

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Meet the man who helped spark online protest in Trayvon Martin case - (...wait for it...)

U.S. News - How one man helped spark online protest in Trayvon Martin case

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Meet the man who helped spark online protest in Trayvon Martin case - (...wait for it...)

U.S. News - How one man helped spark online protest in Trayvon Martin case

It goes to show that one person (pic below) can make a difference, as was the case even before social media. I just want to say that I never said Zimmerman shouldn't be tried for the death of Trayvon Martin, just that the evidence should be weighed in court. The main outrage of this case (as I understand it) thus far, was that it seemed that authorities were trying to prevent the case from ever being tried.

I still think the news media was irresponsible and took liberty with facts as it usually does and lacking in any real investigative journalism, as it usually is, in trying to paint it as a Black/White conflict which was plain inaccurate. Did racism factor into it? Maybe (frankly, it does appear that way to me), but let it be determined in court (which is less-than-perfect but still better than trial-by-news-media or trial-by-lynch-mob).

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I never said Zimmerman shouldn't be tried for the death of Trayvon Martin, just that the evidence should be weighed in court.

I still think the news media was irresponsible and took liberty with facts as it usually does and lacking in any real investigative journalism, as it usually is, in trying to paint it as a Black/White conflict which was plain inaccurate. Did racism factor into it? Maybe (frankly, it does appear that way to me), but let it be determined in court (which is less-than-perfect but still better than trial-by-news-media or trial-by-lynch-mob).

T-Bird, you have said right here what I have been trying to say all along,except you have said it in a much better way.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Meet the man who helped spark online protest in Trayvon Martin case - (...wait for it...)

U.S. News - How one man helped spark online protest in Trayvon Martin case

Great job by this guy!

I hear over two million people of all persuasions signed the online petition!

That's two million people who don't like what appears to be a great injustice and want a lot more answers.

All The Best!!

TL

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Spike Lee apologizes to Florida couple for retweeting their address -

He seems to be apologizing for tweeting the wrong address, but does not seem to address how completely irresponsible it was for him to do that in the first place - even it it had been the right address. It put innocent people in danger.

U.S. News - Spike Lee apologizes to Florida couple for retweeting their address

The mistake forced David and Elaine McClain, a couple in their 70s whose home is about four miles from where Martin was killed, to flee to a hotel.

He's lucky it wasn't the home of John McClane - we might have had a new sequel to Die Hard -

Yippee-ki-yo Spike!

I thought all the same things.

TL

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The assholes in the local police station could have easily used his cell phone to call someone but they didn't.

NO, they COULDN'T! First of all, YOU don't know what kind of info was on the phone, or even if it was his! SECOND, it was potential EVIDENCE! On my current phone, there is no easy way to find out it is mine. They COULD do something(Always different), to get the phone number, and cross reference against my phone numbers, that I only happened to setup(WHO DOES THAT?), and GUESS that I am me! Otherwise, WHAT are they to do? Get a court order to have the phone company release the info?

But all of that could destroy evidence. Even calling the answering service could. You REALLY think they stored a body, and delayed processing, out of RACISM?

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

NO, they COULDN'T! First of all, YOU don't know what kind of info was on the phone, or even if it was his! SECOND, it was potential EVIDENCE! On my current phone, there is no easy way to find out it is mine. They COULD do something(Always different), to get the phone number, and cross reference against my phone numbers, that I only happened to setup(WHO DOES THAT?), and GUESS that I am me! Otherwise, WHAT are they to do? Get a court order to have the phone company release the info?

But all of that could destroy evidence. Even calling the answering service could. You REALLY think they stored a body, and delayed processing, out of RACISM?

Steve

I called them assholes not racists.

And you can dream up all the reasons in the world to not contact his parents if you like.

I think they did what they did to aid in their cover up.

TL

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I called them assholes not racists.

And you can dream up all the reasons in the world to not contact his parents if you like.

I think they did what they did to aid in their cover up.

TL

Well, I doubt three days would help a coverup in that case. And how long does an autopsy, etc... take? Gee, I don't know if I have EVER known the government to act quickly. And you are saying coverup, etc... He was NOT a policeman, so what are YOU saying the reason was?

Steve

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Green Moon

14 years ago

All the people that are buying domain names and setting up websites on this are in for a big surprise if the heirs of Trayvon Martin ever want to make a case of. In the United States, a person and often his estate (or heirs) have what is known as the "right of publicity" which means that no one else is entitled to use your name, likeness, etc... to make money.

That is why the estates of people like Elvis Presley, John Wayne and Michael Jackson continue to rake in millions of dollars of royalties every year. But the benefits of the laws are not limited to actors and musicians; they apply to everyone.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Green Moon

All the people that are buying domain names and setting up websites on this are in for a big surprise if the heirs of Trayvon Martin ever want to make a case of. In the United States, a person and often his estate (or heirs) have what is known as the "right of publicity" which means that no one else is entitled to use your name, likeness, etc... to make money.

That is why the estates of people like Elvis Presley, John Wayne and Michael Jackson continue to rake in millions of dollars of royalties every year. But the benefits of the laws are not limited to actors and musicians; they apply to everyone.

Finally - someone making a comment specifically related to the thread title.

We have discussed it only a few times related to the specific subject.

If this law applies and is enforceable in every state, what would be the point of trying to obtain trademark protection on a name?

And can trademark protection be obtained on a concept statement, and enforced on satirical puns or statements that look like it in principle, or font design?

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Green Moon 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

If this law applies and is enforceable in every state, what would be the point of trying to obtain trademark protection on a name?

Publicity rights are purely state-by-state. Some states may still not protect them at all, in a few states the rights end on the death of the individual.

While the varying state laws may seem like a major problem, in this case it probably is not an issue. If you had a small souvenir shop in a state with no privacy rights law, you might get by, but with a URL it is everywhere, so all someone would need to do is bring an action in a state where the rights exist.
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Related cartoon that will also introduce you to the organization...

A.L.E.C.

Daily Kos: Mark Fiore - Shoot-em-up Charlie

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garyv

14 years ago

It's starting to look like there's plenty of blame to go around in this case. But I think the biggest culprits of the mess we're now seeing are the media and the criminal justice system in that area.

Of course the News is explainable. We haven't had real journalists in the Country for well over a decade now. What we now call News is pushed by ratings and money and that usually means it lacks ethics and anything resembling the truth.

But the justice system should be well prepared for these kind of scenarios. They have to know by now that you must quickly and constantly feed the "News" media with truth - otherwise the media will make up their own truth to suit whatever agenda is going to bring them the best ratings. The justice system in this area fed the media almost nothing. Why? Because they had nothing. Why? Because they failed to make an arrest. Zimmerman still could have received a fair trial, but he should have been arrested.

Then they'd know by looking at his records that he's Hispanic. (race card mob would have been averted) And the public would know that he's being held until a jury and judge can decide on proper justice.

As it is now, they are making it so that justice may never be properly served. After Zimmerman is investigated, there needs to be an investigation of the system of justice in that area.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I agree with most of your post Gary, but not so much with this because of what I wrote earlier for one, but also because I question your assertion that the race issue would not have been brought up if Zimmerman was described as Hispanic. First of all, Hispanics can be as racist as anyone. Secondly, people realize he is Hispanic now and still think racism may have played a part in this.

Originally Posted by garyv

...Then they'd know by looking at his records that he's Hispanic. (race card mob would have been averted)

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I agree with most of your post Gary, but not so much with this because of what I wrote earlier for one, but also because I question your assertion that the race issue would not have been brought up if Zimmerman was described as Hispanic. First of all, Hispanics can be as racist as anyone. Secondly, people realize he is Hispanic now and still think racism may have played a part in this.

Yes true - but the media right now is searching for a black on "white" story to stir things up. It also serves a further political agenda that they've been trying to push. There's no way the Al Sharptons of this world are going to show up for a Hispanic on Black hate crime. Because if that were true they could have a daily rally on just about any corner in South LA.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Yes true - but the media right now is searching for a black on "white" story to stir things up.

It also serves a further political agenda that they've been trying to push.

There's no way the Al Sharptons of this world are going to show up for a Hispanic on Black hate crime.

Because if that were true they could have a daily rally on just about any corner in South LA.

Gary,

Gang/criminal violence is one thing...

... but a young man walking home from the store and ending up getting shot and killed by a older person - for what no good reason, is another matter altogether.

There is a big difference no matter what groups are involved.

I'm also pretty sure the parents of Trayvon asked Sharpton and other national figures for help and the locals didn't bank on that.

They probably thought the parents would just give up and quietly grieve.

If Sharpton has any agendas, one is to make the locals aware that someone is watching them - in these particular situations...

... and another is to help the country become aware of those "Stand Your Ground" laws that have been passed in many states of this union.

And of course he has a show on cable.

All The Best!!

TL

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Yes, that is what happened. And if MLK was alive he probably would have become involved also and been accused of the same things Sharpton and Jackson are being accused of now.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm also pretty sure the parents of Trayvon asked Sharpton and other national figures for help and the locals didn't bank on that.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yes, that is what happened. And if MLK was alive he probably would have become involved also and been accused of the same things Sharpton and Jackson are being accused of now.

Let's look at public statements!

Sharpton and Jackson said that whites are EVIL and that there should be NO discrimination EVER of blacks!

MLK said he dreamt of a day when blacks and whites could live in harmony and DISCRIMINATE against people NOT because of the color of their skin, but the content of their character.

They were ENTIRELY different!

Steve

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Does this come from those voices you hear in your head? If not, lets see some links.

Originally Posted by seasoned

Sharpton and Jackson said that whites are EVIL

I don't think anyone should be discriminated against. Apparently you disagree.

and that there should be NO discrimination EVER of blacks!

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Does this come from those voices you hear in your head? If not, lets see some links.

I don't think anyone should be discriminated against. Apparently you disagree.

OH, that is a ******LAUGH*******! You have discriminated against me based on my supposed party affiliation, ridicule networks, etc...

And MLK said ""I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation
where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character."
– Martin Luther King, I Have a Dream Quote"

That means that a white may be disdained, but a black may be ALSO, if they are of unworthy character. LIKEWISE, a black may be RESPECTED, just as a white, by the quality of their character.

NOW, if you TRULY disagree, let's through all the good people in jail, and let the bad out. OOOPS! That means that if zimmerman is guilty that he should be let FREE! If THAT is the case, what is the reason for this thread?

Steve

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

No links? I thought so. Making stuff up as usual. Steve, the victim of discrimination. ha

Originally Posted by seasoned

OH, that is a ******LAUGH*******! You have discriminated against me based on my supposed party affiliation, ridicule networks, etc...

And MLK said ""I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation
where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character."
- Martin Luther King, I Have a Dream Quote"

That means that a white may be disdained, but a black may be ALSO, if they are of unworthy character. LIKEWISE, a black may be RESPECTED, just as a white, by the quality of their character.

NOW, if you TRULY disagree, let's through all the good people in jail, and let the bad out. OOOPS! That means that if zimmerman is guilty that he should be let FREE! If THAT is the case, what is the reason for this thread?

Steve

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

No links? I thought so. Making stuff up as usual. Steve, the victim of discrimination. ha

OK, I am confused! WHICH of the 134 MILLION links should I include?

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclien...w=1366&bih=594

OK, how about the VERY FIRST LINK?

The I Have a Dream Speech - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

I will EVEN copy MORE of the speach. MAYBE it will be easier for you to recall this speach that possibly EVERYONE has heard!

I say to you today, my friends, so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

I have a dream today.

OK? REMEMBER? Oh come on, I KNOW you MUST!

Steve

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thunderbird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Let's look at public statements!

Sharpton and Jackson said that whites are EVIL and that there should be NO discrimination EVER of blacks!
<snip>

Al Sharpton sometimes has dinner with Bill O'Reilly. Suspicious. Very suspicious.
Sharpton dines with O?Reilly, draws line at Beck - On Media - POLITICO.com
Methinks Al Sharpton is not as one-shaded or transparent as he's being depicted on this thread.
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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Kermit and Ray Bein' Green - YouTube

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KimW

14 years ago

TL,
Do you have any source for this information? Florida is the first and only one I have heard of.
"... and another is to help the country become aware of those "Stand Your Ground" laws that have been passed in many states of this union."

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

TL,
Do you have any source for this information? Florida is the first and only one I have heard of.
"... and another is to help the country become aware of those "Stand Your Ground" laws that have been passed in many states of this union."

Kim...

Also known as "Castle Doctrine"...Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

TL,
Do you have any source for this information? Florida is the first and only one I have heard of.
"... and another is to help the country become aware of those "Stand Your Ground" laws that have been passed in many states of this union."

Do I have a source for Shapton's so-called agenda for getting involved in this tragedy??

No, I'm just speculating but the speculation is based on reasonable grounds IMHO.

If you're interested in finding out more about Stand Your Ground Laws around the nation...

Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or google "stand your ground laws"

BTW, Republicans have recently introduced a national bill that will allow people who can carry concealed guns in one state to bring them - concealed into states that do not allow it.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Do I have a source for Shapton's so-called agenda for getting involved in this tragedy??

No, I'm just speculating but the speculation is based on reasonable grounds IMHO.

If you're interested in finding out more about Stand Your Ground Laws around the nation...

Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or google "stand your ground laws"

BTW, Republicans have recently introduced a national bill that will allow people who can carry concealed guns in one state to bring them - concealed into states that do not allow it.

All The Best!!

TL

I was only talking the stand your ground law post. I already know Sharpton's agenda.It hasn't changed in the last 30 or 40 years.

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KimW

14 years ago

Thanks Dave,
I was wondering about the "have been passed in many states of this union" part. From that article it looks like about 20% have passed laws like that,and they are in states that don't surprise me at all. Actually Florida was the biggest surprise to me because I equate it with retired folks and college students.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Thanks Dave,
I was wondering about the "have been passed in many states of this union" part. From that article it looks like about 20% have passed laws like that,and they are in states that don't surprise me at all. Actually Florida was the biggest surprise to me because I equate it with retired folks and college students.

Sort of surprised me but then again...there are parts of FL that have gotten pretty rough. Back in the 70's I hitch hiked all over that state a few times. Sure wouldn't do it now...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Sort of surprised me but then again...there are parts of FL that have gotten pretty rough. Back in the 70's I hitch hiked all over that state a few times. Sure wouldn't do it now...

LOL, that reminded me that back n the 70s my older brother lived in the swamp for a while.....

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

I've seen people on the internet compare this case to the Emmett Till case, which I think is disrespectful. The Emmett Till case was something totally different and there was no doubt what happened in that case. This is a tragedy sure enough, but statements like that prove that there are black activists with an agenda in this whole thing.

I'm inclined to agree. Citing a 56 year-old case even closely related to this case would be a stretch.

Perhaps that phrase will be misconstrued, or considered a double entendre, (it is not, but I personally noted the irony immediately after I wrote it, and as such, is the reason for writing this), but that only points to show how convoluted things can become in emotional cases such as this. I was going to change the phraseology, but saw it as an example of how easily things can be taken the wrong way, and how carefully we now all are prone to act in delicate matters such as this.
(If I was a FOX news 'pundit', I might be backpedaling on that tomorrow,)

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

I wrote 'wait for it', because I will admit I was quite surprised to this fellow when I clicked on the story...
I hope he won't be offended when I say this, (in fact, he may be the first to agree) - but this is about as 'white' as it gets...:rolleyes:

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I wrote 'wait for it', because I will admit I was quite surprised to this fellow...I hope he won't be offended when I say this, (in fact, he may be the first to agree) - but this is about as 'white' as it gets...:rolleyes:

Are you referring to the red-headed White Black guy?

(That was just a silly joke.)

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I wrote 'wait for it', because I will admit I was quite surprised to this fellow when I clicked on the story...
I hope he won't be offended when I say this, (in fact, he may be the first to agree) - but this is about as 'white' as it gets...:rolleyes:

HECK YEAH! Red haired people tend to have less melanin, and tend to freckle more easily. But why would he take offense. I WILL say it kind of speaks against what TL seems to believe.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

HECK YEAH! Red haired people tend to have less melanin, and tend to freckle more easily. But why would he take offense. I WILL say it kind of speaks against what TL seems to believe.

Steve

Nonsensical...

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waterotter

14 years ago

Tonight's ISSUES with Jane Velez-Mitchell on HLN will have a panel of experts who will discuss the police video tape I posted earlier.

A former investigator (retired?) has made mention of the lack of any blood on Zimmerman's shirt if his nose was indeed, broken and such a struggle ensued.

He also mentions the fact that police were not wearing protective gloves when touching Zimmerman. If there was blood, police would wear gloves to protect themselves from HIV, Aids etc.

From Robert Zimmerman ""It's my understanding at that point Trayvon Martin walked up to him, asked him, 'do you have a f---in problem?' George said 'no, I don't have a problem,' and started to reach for his cell phone. At that point, he was punched in the nose, his nose was broken, and he was knocked to the concrete," Robert Zimmerman said.

"Travyon Martin got on top of him and started beating him, in his face, nose, hitting his head on the concrete,"

It was stated in the police report that Zimmerman was cleaned up and given first aid at the scene. Anyone who suffers a head injury should be taken to the hospital.

Back to the video, as grainy as it may be - I don't see as much as a bandage on his head. I have a hard time believing this man who weighs about 100 lbs more than the victim, was fighting for/or in fear for his life. If he sustained the supposed injuries he claims, I don't buy it.

The Funeral Director has also stated there wasn't a scratch on Trayon's hands or any signs of injury, other than a gunshot wound, that he could see.

The lawyer for Trayons' family said he would give the details of the phone call to the federal investigation. (the cell phone conversation with the girlfriend)

"We're going to turn this over to the Justice Department because the family does not trust the Sanford Police Department to have anything to do with the investigation," said Crump.

Zimmerman's Father: "I don't believe that happened. I don't believe she was on the phone with him and I find it very strange with the publicity involved that all of a sudden after three weeks someone would remember that they were on the phone. I believe the FBI and others investigating this will find that did not happen," Zimmerman said.

Trayon's girlfriend was hospitalized after his killing. Doctors will be able to testify to this. Phone records in the right hands will prove the phone conversation did take place.

This is beginning to wreak of a cover-up.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

It was stated in the police report that Zimmerman was cleaned up and given first aid at the scene. Anyone who suffers a head injury should be taken to the hospital.

Back to the video, as grainy as it may be - I don't see as much as a bandage on his head. I have a hard time believing this man who weighs about 100 lbs more than the victim, was fighting for/or in fear for his life. If he sustained the supposed injuries he claims, I don't buy it.

A LOT of people DON'T go to the hospital even if they have a concussion, though zimmerman obviously didn't have a concussion in the truest sense of the word. Police may slip up, etc... And don't bet in fights! The heaviest guy does NOT always win!

Steve

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

A LOT of people DON'T go to the hospital even if they have a concussion, though zimmerman obviously didn't have a concussion in the truest sense of the word. Police may slip up, etc... And don't bet in fights! The heaviest guy does NOT always win!

Steve

Steve, I'm wondering if he is trying to hide something. Just for the sake of argument, if he didn't sustain the head injuries he claimed - wouldn't it be in his best interest not to be seen by a doctor and have x-rays etc? After all, there's a chance he may have spoken with his father before the police arrived - who better to advise him what to do.

I actually read a report that it was his Dad that told him to "Stand Your Ground". That's why he wasn't arrested to begin with.

Still, there is no blood on him. I'll be looking forward to hearing his lawyer explain that one away.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Steve, I'm wondering if he is trying to hide something. Just for the sake of argument, if he didn't sustain the head injuries he claimed - wouldn't it be in his best interest not to be seen by a doctor and have x-rays etc? After all, there's a chance he may have spoken with his father before the police arrived - who better to advise him what to do.

I actually read a report that it was his Dad that told him to "Stand Your Ground". That's why he wasn't arrested to begin with.

Still, there is no blood on him. I'll be looking forward to hearing his lawyer explain that one away.

Who knows? I am NOT saying he is innocent. But HEY, I was once SUED because I allowed someone to pay late!!!!!!!!!! Wouldn't it have been in my interest to pursue, harass, etc... and get them to pay on time? In retrospect, YES! Back THEN, I thought I was being a nice guy!

Steve

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Kay King

14 years ago

That was Feb. 27, one day after Trayvon was shot. The father thought that he was missing, according to the family's lawyer, Benjamin Crump, but the boy's body had actually been taken to the medical examiner's office and listed as a John Doe.
The father called the Missing Persons Unit. No luck. Then he called 911. The police asked the father to describe the boy, after which they sent officers to the house where the father was staying. There they showed him a picture of the boy with blood coming out of his mouth.

So where are people getting these "facts" about "3 days till his parents were even notified"??? You really need to start fact-checking before passing on the lies.

Trayvon had no id on him - he did not live in the area but was visiting his Father.

There are sources who say the police had statement from one or more witnesses who watched the physical confrontation. Those have not been released - perhaps because the witnesses would be in danger. I'm tired of hearing about the "public's right to know" - it's prurient interest for most people.

Spike Lee settled with the couple whose address he was so quick to tweet (and tell others to retweet) - he called them and apologized.

You cannot compare Sharpton and Jackson with Martin Luther King - no way that stands. King had a dream - they have a need for attention.

I'm shocked at the number of people who say "I know the facts aren't all in yet but it's clear that....." There's nothing clear yet and danger in deciding an outcome before the facts are all in. People become so entrenched in their own personal "verdict" they react badly if that's not the verdict when the facts ARE in.

I'm for truth, no matter who tells it.
I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against.

--Malcolm X

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Steve, I'm wondering if he is trying to hide something. Just for the sake of argument, if he didn't sustain the head injuries he claimed - wouldn't it be in his best interest not to be seen by a doctor and have x-rays etc? After all, there's a chance he may have spoken with his father before the police arrived - who better to advise him what to do.

I actually read a report that it was his Dad that told him to "Stand Your Ground". That's why he wasn't arrested to begin with.

Still, there is no blood on him. I'll be looking forward to hearing his lawyer explain that one away.

Jody, They reported he had abrasions on his head.Abrasions don't always show visible blood. Think back when your a child riding a bike and you call and scrape your hands and knees.Those are what abrasions are,and a lot of the times they didn't bleed immediately,and if in fact he got treatment before being put in the cruiser,you very well would never see any blood.

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Does this come from those voices you hear in your head? If not, lets see some links.

I don't think anyone should be discriminated against. Apparently you disagree.

Tim, I would say about 99.9% of the time we agree on most things, but I can't with you on this. I don't think links are needed,Over the past 30 -40 years both of those individuals have preached hate of whites. Granted,Jackson started off preaching lets work together,but over the years his stance has changed, And anyway, both of them will jump at any chance to be in the limelight.

I also don't think anyone should be discriminated again,and I don't see where Steve is advocating that.

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

No links? I thought so. Making stuff up as usual. Steve, the victim of discrimination. ha

As I said, no links needed.But he isn't making stuff up in this case>I have seen and heard both of those people on national tv preach hate of whites. And I am not making it up either. They love the limelight and they will do anything and say anything to be in it.

Originally Posted by Kay King

So where are people getting these "facts" about "3 days till his parents were even notified"??? You really need to start fact-checking before passing on the lies.

Kay, fact checking takes too much work when it is much easier to just try to slant the story to what they want to believe. I have already posted earlier in this thread about how many posting here are doing exactly that.Besides,lies are much more sensational than the truth at times.

Trayvon had no id on him - he did not live in the area but was visiting his Father.

I am not going to go back and check,but I believe that he was staying at hims father's house and his father was not there. Anyone is welcome to correct me on that point if I am wrong.

There are sources who say the police had statement from one or more witnesses who watched the physical confrontation. Those have not been released - perhaps because the witnesses would be in danger. I'm tired of hearing about the "public's right to know" - it's prurient interest for most people.

While they public might have the right to know,it doesn't mean they have the right to know right now. As we have all seen both here in the forum and in the news in general, so many have already tried and convicted someone without knowing most of the facts. And releasing some facts,like the eyewitnesses accounts could very well put their lives in danger from jerks like Spike Lee and others. That is not fair to them,people who are just trying to do their civic duty.

Spike Lee settled with the couple whose address he was so quick to tweet (and tell others to retweet) - he called them and apologized.

Spike Lee did call and apologize for getting the addresss wrong,but that's all.He made no opology for his completely poor and irresponsible behavior.

You cannot compare Sharpton and Jackson with Martin Luther King - no way that stands. King had a dream - they have a need for attention.

100% agreement with you there Kay.

I'm shocked at the number of people who say "I know the facts aren't all in yet but it's clear that....." There's nothing clear yet and danger in deciding an outcome before the facts are all in. People become so entrenched in their own personal "verdict" they react badly if that's not the verdict when the facts ARE in.

Once again in complete agreement with you.

What really amazes me is how many want to make this a white (or hispanic) against a black man issue. What a great way to keep racism alive and well in America. Has a crime been committed? I think most feel it has. But in reality you don't know if it would have ended in the same way if the victim was white. Fear is fear. Like it or not many gang members wear hoodies. And as a matter of fact,most banks won't allow you to enter the bank now if you are wearing a hoodie,no matter what your age or color is. because you cannot tell what the person looks like unless you are right in front of them,and even then all you can see is some facial features. Try it for yourself if you think I am wrong. Of course the other thing is the fact that Florida has one of the stupidest laws I have ever seen as far as allowing people to get a gun and also to carry a gun and get a concealed weapon permit. Jody said what the law was and posted a link. I looked at the link and she was absolutely right. Why the hell can someone get a gun through the State department of Agriculture?? Why don't you have to apply in person??
Florida law needs a major change. I am not for gun control in the sense of taking them away from responsible citizens, but I do think they need to be issued responsibly.
/rant over

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I have paid attention to both of these individuals for the last few decades also, and have never heard them preach about hate for whites or calling whites evil as Steve suggested. I do think if it is so obvious to you and Steve it shouldn't be so hard to find some examples.

Originally Posted by KimW

[B]I don't think links are needed,Over the past 30 -40 years both of those individuals have preached hate of whites.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I have paid attention to both of these individuals for the last few decades also, and have never heard them preach about hate for whites or calling whites evil as Steve suggested. I do think if it is so obvious to you and Steve it shouldn't be so hard to find some examples.

On this we just have to agree to disagree. I know what I have seen and heard,but on the news and in person many times when they spoke in Wash DC when I lived just a few miles from there.After all,that is where they do most of their events. They don't get as much attention when they do it in Pohick. I did admit that Jesse Jackson started off talking about coming together,but when he stopped being in the limelight he changed his tone.
Since I am 100% sure of my facts having personally seen it, I won't waste my time finding links. You can choose to disbelieve me if you wish,it won't affect our friendship in any way at my end. And I do consider you a friend.

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Kay King

14 years ago

Are you serious - or just arguing? What's worse - Sharpton, at least, has done real harm with his racially biased rhetoric. People have died because of his mouth and his own brand of racism.

Tawana Brawley - made up a story about rape by white men - and Sharpton jump into it. He did a lot of damage by accusing an innocent man - Sharpton lost the court battle - because the whole incident was a LIE.

Freddy's Market -
A black landlord raised the rent on the Jewish owner of Freddy's Market in Harlem. That caused Freddy to raise the rent on his subtenant - a black owned store.

"We will not stand by," Sharpton warns malignantly, "and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business."

Sharpton's National Action Network sets up picket lines; customers going into Freddy's are spat on and cursed as "traitors" and "Uncle Toms." Some protesters shout, "Burn down the Jew store!" and simulate striking a match.

"We're going to see that this cracker suffers," says Sharpton's colleague Morris Powell. On Dec. 8, 1995, one of the protesters bursts into Freddy's, shoots four employees point-blank, then sets the store on fire. Seven employees die in the inferno.

He led a boycott of an Asian restaurant because "they was selling fried chicken and watermelon".

A Jewish driver accidently killed a 7-year-old black child. Sharpton spoke out about "diamond merchants,' a racist term aimed at Jews. This led to the stabbing death of a Jewish student at the hands of a black mob shouting "no justice, no peace" and "Kill the Jew." Again, race had nothing to do with it...huh Al?

Sharpton stood beside four black men who raped and beat a Hatian woman, on top of forcing her to perform oral sex on her own 12-year-old son. Instead of standing at this woman's side, Al stood up for these rapists who and claimed they were being treated unfairly because they were....black.

"White folks was [sic] in caves while we was building empires.... We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it."

Jackson has similarly discredited himself - but usually not as blatantly as Sharpton.

BIG QUESTION:

The same week Trayvon Martin died, two older black teens in Kansas City went to the home of a 13 yr old white teen. They threw gasoline on him and set him on fire saying "you get what you deserve, white boy"...

That's clearly a "hate crime" - but you'll never hear Sharpton say a word about it.

The sad part is that anyone would stand up for Sharpton when there better people to look up to. He does nothing for "his people" - he holds people back in the same victim mentality. ML King pushed people to be and accomplish more....that is what a leader does.

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HeySal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Are you serious - or just arguing? What's worse - Sharpton, at least, has done real harm with his racially biased rhetoric. People have died because of his mouth and his own brand of racism.

Tawana Brawley - made up a story about rape by white men - and Sharpton jump into it. He did a lot of damage by accusing an innocent man - Sharpton lost the court battle - because the whole incident was a LIE.

Freddy's Market -
A black landlord raised the rent on the Jewish owner of Freddy's Market in Harlem. That caused Freddy to raise the rent on his subtenant - a black owned store. He led a boycott of an Asian restaurant because "they was selling fried chicken and watermelon".

Jackson has similarly discredited himself - but usually not as blatantly as Sharpton.

BIG QUESTION:

The same week Trayvon Martin died, two older black teens in Kansas City went to the home of a 13 yr old white teen. They threw gasoline on him and set him on fire saying "you get what you deserve, white boy"...

That's clearly a "hate crime" - but you'll never hear Sharpton say a word about it.

The sad part is that anyone would stand up for Sharpton when there better people to look up to. He does nothing for "his people" - he holds people back in the same victim mentality. ML King pushed people to be and accomplish more....that is what a leader does.

Excellent research and post, Kay. I don't think you left a thing to be added to it.

TL -- You don't see a difference between MLK and Sharpton? That's absolutely unbelievable. MLK did more to integrate the races than anyone else before or after. All Sharpton is is a terrorist with aims of black supremacy and a following of really ignorant sheep. Even most blacks that I know of think that Sharpton is nothing but a lunatic and wish he'd STFU before he starts any major riots.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Excellent research and post, Kay. I don't think you left a thing to be added to it.

TL -- You don't see a difference between MLK and Sharpton? That's absolutely unbelievable. MLK did more to integrate the races than anyone else before or after. All Sharpton is is a terrorist with aims of black supremacy and a following of really ignorant sheep. Even most blacks that I know of think that Sharpton is nothing but a lunatic and wish he'd STFU before he starts any major riots.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

All I said was I agree with Tim that if MLK would have been alive today he would have been on this case.

Sharpton a terrorist with aims of black supremacy??

That's nothing but silly hype which you are most prone to engage in.

You seem to be yet another person that's continues to get Sharpton mixed up with Louis Farrakan and it tickles me to no end.

The implosion you alluded to earlier in this thread and major race riots you just now mentioned is something I think you'd like to see happen since...

... of all the people in this forum you more than anyone else is always alluding to something like that happening here.

Is that part of the secret plan of that crazy ass organization you belong to???

The Charles Mansin strategy???

Or perhaps...

The general armed revolt strategy to take down the national gov??

BTW...

Why did you give a thanks to this from Thunderbird?????????

"Al Sharpton sometimes has dinner with Bill O'Reilly. Suspicious. Very suspicious.
Sharpton dines with O?Reilly, draws line at Beck - On Media - POLITICO.com

Methinks Al Sharpton is not as one-shaded or transparent as he's being depicted on this thread."

Why did you give a thanks to this from Thunderbird?????????

And now Sharpton is the next thing after the devil???

Are you on meds also???

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

You are putting the words in your mouth. There is a difference between giving an opinion and trying to slant the facts,and your most recent posts have been slanting the facts,in my opinion

All I said was I agree with Tim that if MLK would have been alive today he would have been on this case.

No,that isn't what you said.

Sharpton a terrorist with aims of black supremacy??

That's nothing but silly hype which you are most prone to engage in.

You seem to be yet another person that's continues to get Sharpton mixed up with Louis Farrakan and it tickles me to no end.

No one but you seem to be getting the two mixed up. You are the one that keeps mentioning Louis Farrakan .

The implosion you alluded to earlier in this thread and major race riots you just now mentioned is something I think you'd like to see happen since...

... of all the people in this forum you more than anyone else is always alluding to something like that happening here.

You are stepping on very dangerous ground accusing anyone of hoping something like that would happen. I jave never seen Sal advocate any events like that. All aspects of this very case aside,our country is very close to having majors issues develop into something more. And again,your changing things to your own personal slant.Sal did not allude to race riots per say,she said many people,with many blacks included would like him to STFU before HE STARTS such riots. Again,get the facts right.

Is that the secret plan of that crazy ass organization you belong to???

The Charlie Mansin strategy???

Man, How much kool-aid have you drunk today?

BTW...

Why did you give a thanks to this from Thunderbird?????????

"Al Sharpton sometimes has dinner with Bill O'Reilly. Suspicious. Very suspicious.
Sharpton dines with O?Reilly, draws line at Beck - On Media - POLITICO.com

Methinks Al Sharpton is not as one-shaded or transparent as he's being depicted on this thread."

Why did you give a thanks to this from Thunderbird?????????

Well,any of us can thank anyone we want.I have given you thanks several times in this thread when I felt you made a good valid post. Just because you don't get what T-Bird is saying doesn't mean the rest of us don't. I'll be the first to admit Sharptn isn't stupid,and he plays the game well.

And now Sharpton is the next thing after the devil.

Are you on meds also???

I can't speak for Sal, but I am on plenty of meds, Breakfast I take about 17 pills, and at night I take about 22.Sadly for me none of them are mind altering or mood affecting drugs. I can still think extremely clearly.

TL

Of course, I am back to the question I asked earlier in addressing this post. How much Kool-aid have you drunk?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Are you serious - or just arguing? What's worse - Sharpton, at least, has done real harm with his racially biased rhetoric. People have died because of his mouth and his own brand of racism.

Tawana Brawley - made up a story about rape by white men - and Sharpton jump into it. He did a lot of damage by accusing an innocent man - Sharpton lost the court battle - because the whole incident was a LIE.

Freddy's Market -
A black landlord raised the rent on the Jewish owner of Freddy's Market in Harlem. That caused Freddy to raise the rent on his subtenant - a black owned store. He led a boycott of an Asian restaurant because "they was selling fried chicken and watermelon".

Jackson has similarly discredited himself - but usually not as blatantly as Sharpton.

BIG QUESTION:

The same week Trayvon Martin died, two older black teens in Kansas City went to the home of a 13 yr old white teen. They threw gasoline on him and set him on fire saying "you get what you deserve, white boy"...

That's clearly a "hate crime" - but you'll never hear Sharpton say a word about it.

The sad part is that anyone would stand up for Sharpton when there better people to look up to. He does nothing for "his people" - he holds people back in the same victim mentality. ML King pushed people to be and accomplish more....that is what a leader does.

Who said Sharpton was perfect???

Why did the family call him??

Because...

Shapton has lots of experience in responding to situations like Trayvons and that is the role he plays in the Black community.

Most people don't look to him for anything else and he seems to stay busy - I wonder why??

Just cause you don't like Sharpton - so what, you're entitled to your opinion.

TL

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yukon

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Who said Sharpton was perfect???

Why did the family call him??

Because...

Shapton has lots of experience in responding to situations like Trayvons and that is the role he plays in the Black community.

Most people don't look to him for anything else and he seems to stay busy - I wonder why??

Just cause you don't like Sharpton - so what, and you're entitled to your opinion.

TL

You'll have that sometimes.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I have paid attention to both of these individuals for the last few decades also, and have never heard them preach about hate for whites or calling whites evil as Steve suggested. I do think if it is so obvious to you and Steve it shouldn't be so hard to find some examples.

Tim, Kim's assertion is quite silly.

If Sharpton had been actually preaching hatred of whites all these years as some people claim...

... how on Earth would the right wingers allow him to have his own TV show on a major cable news channel?

They would stay on MSNBC's ass until he was driven off the air as a matter of fact MSNBC would have never even considered him for a show.

The most they can say is that in their eyes, he's a trouble maker and a race hustler.

But my question is...

Since when is responding to racism - make you a racist?

BTW...

If he and Jackson have seemed busy it's because perhaps there have been a lot of incidences to keep them busy.

I read your post and you never compared Sharpton & Jesse to MLK.

All you said was that...

... if MLK were alive today he'd probably be on the case and also be called a trouble maker like Al & Jessie.

What tickles me is how some people seem to get Jessie and Al mixed up with someone like Farrakan all the time.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Tim, Kim's assertion is quite silly.

No TL, my assertion is quite accurate.You wanting to claim it is silly is both your right and your fantasy. As I said,I have seen it in person.Have you??

If Sharpton had been actually preaching hatred of whites all these years as some people claim...

... how on Earth would the right wingers allow him to have his own TV show on a major cable news channel?

They would stay on MSNBC's ass until he was driven off the air as a matter of fact MSNBC would have never even considered him for a show.

Easy answer there,your so called right wingers don't own all the media. The media 's goal is to make money and controversy makes money. While I could agree Fox would never let them have a show,MSNBC is actually one of the most equal opportunity stations out there.They have both liberal and conservative show. And they don't kowtow to others for the most part.

The most they can say is that in their eyes, he's a trouble maker and a race hustler.

Please define race hustler.

But my question is...

Since when is responding to racism - make you a racist?

And please define responding to racism?

BTW...

If he and Jackson have seemed busy it's because perhaps there have been a lot of incidences to keep them busy.

Such as?

I read your post and you never compared Sharpton & Jesse to MLK.

All you said was that...

... if MLK were alive today he'd probably be on the case and also be called a trouble maker like Al & Jessie.

No,get the facts right. What he said was:
And if MLK was alive he probably would have become involved also and been accused of the same things Sharpton and Jackson are being accused of now.
Get the facts right. Another example why the lynch mob mentality.You want to distort it to what you want it to be. .
But then,in this case Steve was right, Sharpton and Jackson preach hate, Martin Luther King preached coming together. If he was alive today,I believe he would still preach peace and coming together and not the crap coming out of those two.

What tickles me is how some people seem to get Jessie and Al mixed up with someone like Farrakan all the time.

I have never gotten them mixed up,I can't speak for others.

All The Best!!

TL

TL,
Please start looking at facts before speaking. As I had said before you even made your post,I had seen both speak in DC in person and have heard what comes out of their mouths. Unless you have too, You have no valid means to say my assertion is silly. But then,if you haven't then what you have been exposed to is mainly sound bites. There is a big difference.

Unlike others in this thread, I want to see justice done and the accused get a fair trial,which at this point I don't even see that as being possible anymore.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

TL,
Please start looking at facts before speaking. As I had said before you even made your post,I had seen both speak in DC in person and have heard what comes out of their mouths. Unless you have too, You have no valid means to say my assertion is silly. But then,if you haven't then what you have been exposed to is mainly sound bites. There is a big difference.

Unlike others in this thread, I want to see justice done and the accused get a fair trial,which at this point I don't even see that as being possible anymore.

And you heard him say...

white people are evil.

Perhaps he was railing against some injustice and that's what you thought you heard.

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

And you heard him say...

white people are evil.

Perhaps he was railing against some injustice and that's what you thought you heard.

TL

And once again you want to put your slant on things.
In case you are misunderstanding me, I have said I have heard them both preach hate against whites. And I have not misunderstood what I heard.

I was living near DC during the 1968 riots. were you?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

And once again you want to put your slant on things.
In case you are misunderstanding me, I have said I have heard them both preach hate against whites. And I have not misunderstood what I heard.

I was living near DC during the 1968 riots. were you?

I lived near Newark during the riots.

Emotions ran high and folks tend to say things they don't really mean.

You sure it wasn't Louis Farrakan you were listening to??

Is it possible for people to change for the better????

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I lived near Newark during the riots.

Emotions ran high and folks can tend to say things they don't really mean.

You sure it wasn't Louis Farrakan you were listening to??

TL

I am sure it wasn't Louis Farrakan.Which I have twice stated so far now.:rolleyes:

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

So where are people getting these "facts" about "3 days till his parents were even notified"??? You really need to start fact-checking before passing on the lies.

Trayvon had no id on him - he did not live in the area but was visiting his Father.

There are sources who say the police had statement from one or more witnesses who watched the physical confrontation. Those have not been released - perhaps because the witnesses would be in danger. I'm tired of hearing about the "public's right to know" - it's prurient interest for most people.

Spike Lee settled with the couple whose address he was so quick to tweet (and tell others to retweet) - he called them and apologized.

You cannot compare Sharpton and Jackson with Martin Luther King - no way that stands. King had a dream - they have a need for attention.

I'm shocked at the number of people who say "I know the facts aren't all in yet but it's clear that....." There's nothing clear yet and danger in deciding an outcome before the facts are all in. People become so entrenched in their own personal "verdict" they react badly if that's not the verdict when the facts ARE in.

If you claim that no one knows the facts...

.. how come you're ready to brand this or that a lie if no one really knows the facts?

I read Tim's post and he never compared Sharpton & Jesse to MLK.

All Tim said was that...

... if MLK were alive today he'd probably be on the case and also be called a trouble maker like Al & Jessie.

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If you claim that no one knows the facts...

.. how come you're ready to brand this or that a lie if no one really knows the facts?

I read Tim's post and he never compared Sharpton & Jesse to MLK.

All Tim said was that...

... if MLK were alive today he'd probably be on the case and also be called a trouble maker like Al & Jessie.

TL

Again, everything in this post has been proven inaccurate or changed to put your own slant on it.

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Again, everything in this post has been proven inaccurate or changed to put your own slant on it.

That's nonsensical.

She asked people to stop spreading a lie and then she said that no one knows what the truth is.

So how does she know it's a lie???

TL
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HeySal

14 years ago

This whole issue is crap. A guy miss-used a new law to get away with murder. Same thing happened a few times in Colorado when they brought in the make my day law. Over all it's been a godsend for people who have actually had to defend themselves - but there's always a fruitcake or two around to see how far they can bend it for their own psychopathic reasons.

As far as the racist issue. There was a white couple attacked by 5 blacks a few years back. She was raped while forced to watch them hack her boyfriend to shreds - then they killed her, too. Not once was a cry of "racism" ever raised.

I'm so sick of everything that some nutcase does inter-racially being tramped around as racism. This guy was a nut job. Plain and simple. He has enough "insider" with the cops to think he could get away with it. That's got nothing to do with race, it's got to do with a severely dangerously psychotic nutcase that is being protected. And as far as the protection -- he does get a trial, so that might not be enough. It might not have been enough even if the racial banter hadn't started up.

I remember not too long ago there was a woman accused of killing her little girl and a lynch mob got started over it. It ended up with people who just had unfortunately mistakable names also being hurt. Everyone was a judge and a jury without even being there in court to hear the evidence. The media put their slant on it and the mobs ran with that and made their minds up solely on what the press said.

These kinds of things get wildly out of control very rapidly. We have a court system and we need to learn to damned well abide through that. Instead we have gone crazy, forming lynch mobs. Lynch mobs are not famous for being as accurate as a court judgement. There's a lot of innocent people that are going to end up getting hurt or killed over this crap if people don't calm the hell down. How many innocent lives do we ruin to rectify the actions of one lone sicko? I have an idea - lets start some racial slaughter over it. That'll fix things, won't it?

Good grief, if we don't get a grip pretty soon this whole society is going to implode.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

The whole race issue as related to this case is crap and nothing but a distraction from the facts of the case...

... in which a armed fake NH watch person shot and killed a minor after ignoring the 9-1-1 operators' instruction to not follow the minor.

And he has not been charged with anything and some people don't like it.

It's a big country and stuff is going to happen between people of different persuasions but all of them do not have to be classified as race situations and some of them are going to be.

It's a big country.

Why has race entered into this thread?

Because some people have decided to throw it into the mix.

Why has Sharpton's supposedly checkered past entered into this thread?

Why has this thread turned into a debate on Sharpton & Jackson????

TL

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yukon

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The whole race issue as related to this case is crap and nothing but a distraction from the facts of the case...

... in which a armed fake NH watch person shot and killed a minor after ignoring the 9-1-1 operators' instruction to not follow the minor.

And he has not been charged with anything and some people don't like it.

It's a big country and stuff is going to happen between people of different persuasions but all of them do not have to be classified as race situations and some of them are going to be.

It's a big country.

Why has race entered into this thread?

Because some people have decided to throw it into the mix.

Why has Sharpton's supposedly checkered past entered into this thread?

Why has this thread turned into a debate on Sharpton & Jackson????

TL

Because Sharpton is an idiot that exploits other peoples problems for his own publicity.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Tthe facts of the case...

... in which a armed fake NH watch person shot and killed a minor after ignoring the 9-1-1 operators' instruction to not follow the minor.

Why has race entered into this thread?

Because some people have decided to throw it into the mix.

TL

Honestly, I don't know who made it a race issue,the white guy that is supposedly the one that single handedly got the issue national attention,or the boys parents.

But we do know the boys parents brought in Jackson and Sharpton, so in my opinion they are as responsible for making it a race issue as anyone else.

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yukon

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Honestly, I don't know who made it a race issue,the white guy that is supposedly the one that single handedly got the issue national attention,or the boys parents.

But we do know the boys parents brought in Jackson and Sharpton, so in my opinion they are as responsible for making it a racr issue as anyone else.

Then you have the Spike Lee FAIL!

That goof caused innocent people to leave their own home because he sent the lynch mob to the wrong house.

Another idiot...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_16...tweet-blunder/

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Probably for the same reason someone would smear a dead kid by bringing up such non related things as marijuana use and getting detention from school. :/

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Why has Sharpton's supposedly checkered past entered into this thread?

Why has this thread turned into a debate on Sharpton & Jackson????

TL

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Probably for the same reason someone would smear a dead kid by bringing up such non related things as marijuana use and getting detention from school. :/

Tim ,while maybe the news shouldn't have published that,it would have been fair to bring it up in the court case,along with the fact that he was bragging recently about joining a gang.
It would have very well have been relevant as to the victims character and give reasonable cause as to why the shooter might have actually have been in fear of his life. ( not that the shooter would have known any of that,but a gang member is certainly not going to approach someone and say "hello Sir,how are you this fine evening?", no the version that has been reported is much more plausible,the victim coming up to the guy and going "you got a problem here?" or something similar,I don't know the exact words,but that seems to be the gist of whats been reported.

Again, my only desire is the guy get a fair trial. It isn't a black vs white issue as much as many want it to be one,
If the facts prove he was justified,I hope he goes free.If the facts prove he wasn't, I hope he hangs.
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Well, he was young, was a victim, seems innocent and if you think he looks angelic, that is your opinion. You probably didn't read my posts about the police report listing Zimmerman as white and that being Latino or Hispanic and White aren't mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Perhaps it was a counter to the establishment press painting Trayvon as a young, innocent, angelic victim.

Interesting, too, how a Latino magically becomes white.

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KimW

14 years ago

Oh come on Tim,
I know you well enough to know that you have seen the pictures that they were first putting out. The very first picture I saw was of someone that looked about 12 or 13 and they made it sound like he was a good student etc etc, and I was highly outraged about what happened to him. But as more and more of the facts came out, and I find out he is a 17 year old gang member,then my view of the situation changed.

As while technically you are correct that one can be white and hispanic,why didn't they call him hispanic in the first place? He looks more hispanic than anything else. And it is also all about perception,and as I mentioned before, I honestly think that most of us when we hear the term white we think of the traditional definition as white-anglo-saxon-protestant.(even though the protestant part doesn't seem to apply much anymore). But again,white against black sells more papers.

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Well, he was young, was a victim, seems innocent and if you think he looks angelic, that is your opinion. You probably didn't read my posts about the police report listing Zimmerman as white and that being Latino or Hispanic and White aren't mutually exclusive.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Kim, do you know for a fact that he was a gang member? If so, I haven't heard that. He never got in trouble for any violence either as far as I know. I have heard people say he was a good student and also wanted to be a pilot. I haven't seen anyone release grades yet. Have you?

You said earlier that these questions about him would be asked in court. That may be right, but I would suspect the prosecutors would object and perhaps win the objections. However, I would expect a defense lawyer to try to smear a dead kid to save his client, and now days it's common for the media on both sides to say just about anything, but for others it just doesn't sit well with me. He WAS the victim in this case no matter how he dressed, had tattoos, smoked weed, had problems in school, etc...

No kid that age is perfect, but from what I can tell Trayvon was a good kid. Not that it should matter anyways in this case. He didn't do anything wrong. Even if he punched the guy, from all the "facts" I have seen, it was only him standing his own ground and defending himself.

Originally Posted by KimW

Oh come on Tim,
I know you well enough to know that you have seen the pictures that they were first putting out. The very first picture I saw was of someone that looked about 12 or 13 and they made it sound like he was a good student etc etc, and I was highly outraged about what happened to him. But as more and more of the facts came out, and I find out he is a 17 year old gang member,then my view of the situation changed.

As while technically you are correct that one can be white and hispanic,why didn't they call him hispanic in the first place? He looks more hispanic than anything else. And it is also all about perception,and as I mentioned before, I honestly think that most of us when we hear the term white we think of the traditional definition as white-anglo-saxon-protestant.(even though the protestant part doesn't seem to apply much anymore). But again,white against black sells more papers.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Kim, do you know for a fact that he was a gang member? If so, I haven't heard that. He never got in trouble for any violence either as far as I know. I have heard people say he was a good student and also wanted to be a pilot. I haven't seen anyone release grades yet. Have you?

You haven't seen them because one of the first things the Martin family's lawyer did was have the kids school records sealed...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Kim, do you know for a fact that he was a gang member? If so, I haven't heard that. He never got in trouble for any violence either as far as I know. I have heard people say he was a good student and also wanted to be a pilot. I haven't seen anyone release grades yet. Have you?

No,I have no proof he was a gang member,but my comment on that is below along with links.
While he may not have gotten in trouble at school,he did get in trouble for drugs (an empty pot bag) and for being in an area of the school he wasn't allowed in. I have not heard what kind of student he was,good or bad. But as Dave pointed out and I think is probably true,at this point his school records are probably sealed.

I also have heard that just before this unfortunate incident that he was stopped and found with what has been called a burglaary tool and 12 pieces of women's jewelry on him,which he denied was his. ( I'm not even going to comment on the logic of that).

You said earlier that these questions about him would be asked in court. That may be right, but I would suspect the prosecutors would object and perhaps win the objections. However, I would expect a defense lawyer to try to smear a dead kid to save his client, and now days it's common for the media on both sides to say just about anything, but for others it just doesn't sit well with me. He WAS the victim in this case no matter how he dressed, had tattoos, smoked weed, had problems in school, etc...

Actually,and I am not going to go back and look so you might be right and I might be wrong,but I think I said that they should be asked in court and not by the press,as they could be considered relevant to the defense.
And of course the prosecution would object if he was any good,and of course the defense lawyer would argue and probably win in my opinion that it was extremely relevant to the defense,especially if the issue of him being a gang member is true. But who knows if it would be allowed or not? We won't find out til it actually goes to trial and they attempt it.
Again, in my opinion and of course I don't expect everyone to agree with me, him being the victim is still to be determined in the court of law,not the court of public opinion. He may have been unjustly murdered,I don't know. But he may also have attacked zimmerman in which case he is responsible for the end results. I have no problem stating that if ANYONE attacked me I would do any and everything in my power to end the attack in the swiftest means available to me,and it I had a weapon that would include using that weapon. Make me out as a bad person for saying that if you want,but I am being honest and the truth of the matter is that almost anyone else reading this thread or not would do the same thing. And anyone that says they would just let someone wail the tar out of them and not defend themselves would be lying.

No kid that age is perfect, but from what I can tell Trayvon was a good kid. Not that it should matter anyways in this case. He didn't do anything wrong. Even if he punched the guy, from all the "facts" I have seen, it was only him standing his own ground and defending himself.

Tim, while still not a mature adult at that age,he is old enough to know right and wrong. Maybe he was a good kids.I don't know.I've seen reports that say he was a good kid and I've seen reports that he was a gang banger,which is right,again,I don't know. But we differ on the reports we have about if he did anything wrong or not. I have seen 3 different "eyewitness" reports so far.Two say they saw with their own eyes Trayvon slamming zimmerman's head on the concrete. The third one was a lady that didn't see anything she just claims she heard something.(I believe she feels she heard the gunshot).
Who to believe? That's the quandry the jury is going to have to decide.

The whole situation is sad,but it can't be changed. Again, my only hope is the truth comes out and justice is served,no matter what the final verdict is.

Tim,
I have seen it mentioned several times that his FB page mentioned being a gang member. I did not see the page myself. Though some of the stories below supposedly have snippets from it. I didn't do a search but I am sure FB has taken it down long ago.
In re to if Trayvon Martin was a gang member, I can't ptove it myself,but their is plenty of evidence to support that theory.

The facts that aren’t told in the Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman tragedy

Meet The Real Trayvon Martin: Evidence Emerges He Was A Drug Dealer And Gang Banger « Pat Dollard

And of course here is how the press misrepresented him when the story first broke.
Report: Witness Says Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman | Video | TheBlaze.com

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Umm, I didn't see any evidence in those links of him being a gang member. Those gold teeth are fake ones. Two tattoos?! Oh my. One is the name of his girlfriends mother. He smoked pot some times. He got in trouble in school. Wow! All totally unrelated to anything that happened that night. It seems you have jumped to conclusions my friend. He was a good kid as far as I can determine. 6' 160 pounds is a skinny ass kid by the way.

Originally Posted by KimW

In re to if Trayvon Martin was a gang member, I can't ptove it myself,but their is plenty of evidence to support that theory.

Meanwhile, lets look at Zimmerman from a ex coworker:

Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford, Fla., neighborhood watch volunteer who shot the unarmed 17-year-old Martin to death last month, was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for “being too aggressive,” according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman’s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.

“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.

“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”...

Seems Zimmerman's ex fiancee also had problems with his violence:

... a cursory search of county records showed a 2005 arrest on charges of resisting arrest and assaulting a law enforcement officer. The charges were later dropped.

Also in 2005, Zimmerman was involved in a bitter domestic violence incident with his ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo. In that case, Zuazo filed for a restraining order against Zimmerman, who she said snatched her cell phone from her hand and pushed her during an argument. The next day, both filed court petitions accusing the other of violence.

According to the Miami Herald, Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper.

In September 2003, Zimmerman called police and reported that another motorist spat on him, according to reports, Zimmerman followed the man in his car until the police arrived. Daniel Osmun, the other driver, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and that he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration."

Osum said that Zimmerman then pulled alongside of him, and the two argued. In a police report of the incident, Osum said “at one point, he thought Mr. Zimmerman was going to attack him." No charges were filed against either man.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1392591.html

This guy was a walking timebomb. I find it interesting that he accused his ex fiancee of violence against him. He probably feared for his life then also. Poor little George.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Zimmerman’s Weapon Illegal Due to Domestic Violence Restraining Order -
(allegedly)
Zimmerman had a domestic restraining order against him which precluded him from, not just carrying a gun, put owning a weapon or even keeping one in his home. His only other prior problem was an arrest for assaulting a police officer which led to him entering an “anger management” program.

Updated – Zimmerman/Wolfzinger “Fix” Now a Fact (Father a “Judge”) | Veterans Today
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Perhaps it was a counter to the establishment press painting Trayvon as a young, innocent, angelic victim.

Interesting, too, how a Latino magically becomes white.

Whatever Trayvon was...

... you sir seem to forget the essential fact in this case.

Mr. Z. had no business being anywhere near Trayvon.

Absolutely none whatsoever.

Once again, Mr. Z. was told by the 9-1-1 operator to not follow Trayvon...

But he proceeded and the rest is history.

Will everyone try to remember that???

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Whatever Trayvon was...

... you sir seem to forget the essential fact in this case.

Mr. Z. had no business being anywhere near Trayvon.

Absolutely none whatsoever.

Once again, Mr. Z. was told by the 9-1-1 operator to not follow Trayvon...

But he proceeded and the rest is history.

Will everyone try to remember that???

TL

The problem is that everyone is trying to rewrite that history to fit their opinions and the facts be damned.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

Actually, you're not allowed to pursue a person if they haven't committed a felony in your presence. I know this because I used to own a private security business and we had to learn the laws surrounding that profession. Approaching to ask questions is one thing, but if Zimmerman was confrontational, he'd in the wrong. Even if Zimmerman got his ass whooped, I doubt it was because he asked questions. During my time in security, I encountered a lot of suspicious characters. There's always a way to approach even the grimiest of people to get information without causing trouble.

I wouldn't just start beating on someone just because they approached me and started asking questions....

But I MIGHT if they approached me with a gun in their hand...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Young And Opulent

Actually, you're not allowed to pursue a person if they haven't committed a felony in your presence. I know this because I used to own a private security business and we had to learn the laws surrounding that profession. Approaching to ask questions is one thing, but if Zimmerman was confrontational, he'd in the wrong. Even if Zimmerman got his ass whooped, I doubt it was because he asked questions. During my time in security, I encountered a lot of suspicious characters. There's always a way to approach even the grimiest of people to get information without causing trouble.

Pursue a person is such a vague statement. I can be walking down the street and someone that is walking faster than me and catching up with me could easily be considered pursuing me.
And of course, laws vary from state to state but I am sure if I saw someone commit any crime I could pursue them.The average citizen is not educated in what constitutes a felony or a misdemeanor.

While I never worked security, My business partner owned a security company. We had numerous discussions about the business because I was curious.

I agree there are ways to approach someone without being confrontation,and of course in my opinion anyone in a neighborhood watch program should be taught those methods.

But the scenerio that has been broadcast the most is that the victim came up to zimmerman ,not the other way around.
As has been stated,there are certain things that make that story sounds suspect,so I don't know if its true or not.

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HeySal

14 years ago

Nope I'm not on meds - and I have been watching legislation and social movement for 30 years now. I have said some things and been wrong - I've been called a lunatic for a lot of things I've said which have proved correct.

I've watched this issue explode into a racial fest all over online, and that's why it is being purported as one in here.

No, I do not want the country to implode. I think it is going to - that is not the same as wishing it. I WISH people would get their excrement coagulated and shut up about race and religion, etc and so forth and just go back to constitutional common sense and respect for each other - which includes socializing with people who want to be social and integrated and leaving people the hell alone who don't. But it does not include letting murderers walk free no matter who they are or who they kill. And why they do so, as far as I'm concerned is really just all beside the point. The point is they did so. They need to have their asses in a courtroom. Period. And everyone needs to shut up about what race a murderer is and what race the person killed is. It's a moot point and only in a society on the brink would you ever see the mobs everywhere over it that we are seeing right now.

Right now there should be only one consensus with all other issues aside. This dude killed a kid and he needs to be in a court of law to find out whether it was self defense or outright murder. That's the only facts, jack.

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KimW

14 years ago

Theoretically I could shoot someone a foot away and not have any blood on me. And again,there are conflicting stories about the chain of events. I first heard the victim was on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman pulled the gun and shot him. In the scenerio Jody would be right,he should have at least some blood on him. But even in that situation it is possible to not have any blood on him. It isn't like in the movies and tv when someone gets shot and it just pours out. Sometimes it just slowly comes out and gets soaked up by the clothes the vctim is wearing,so if Zimmerman had managed to push the victim off far enough to get the gun between them,there may not be blood on Zimmerman yet the victim could be soaked.
The other scenerio I have head was that Zimmerman had gotten out from under the victim and was standing over him when he shot him. And again,in this scenerio it would be possible to have no blood on him.

As Jody has mentioned before,as have I, I think one of the strongest things to look at is if Zimmerman actually has a broken nose. The blood again isn't an issue because a broken nose can swell up so much it can stop the blood from flowing out. But if he had a broken nose it would have to be set somewhere, whether it is at a hospital or a private physicians office. That is something I would like to see addressed.

As far as Zimmerman's record, that could be bad,but they could also be fabricated charges. I was arrested one for assault. What did I do? I touched someones hand as I was leaving a government office building. I went to court,pleaded not guilty and the case was thrown out. The government worker that pressed the charges was publicly reprimanded for abusing the judicial system. Things are not always as they seem.

But again, his father apparently is someone within authority so he very well may have a bad record but had strings pulled. Again,we don't know the facts.

As I said before, we can all make assumptions and innuendos but nothing is going to change the actual facts,and none of us are Police Officers and/or Detectives qualified to make judgements,especially with first hand knowledge of the facts.

Make all the conjectures that you want,but that doesn't mean any of us,including me, are correct in our deductions of what went down that night.

I would hope that all of us want justice served correctly though,even if it may not be decided the way you want.

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KimW

14 years ago

Jody,
I forgot to address this:
"So how was someone with a violent past including that of battery against an officer able to carry a 9 mm handgun? Maybe that’s a question Robert Zimmerman should answer."

"battery against an officer " is usually a very laughable charge,pretty much the same way resisting arrest is.
Literally touch an officer,intentionally or not and they can,and very often will, charge you with battery against an officer. Same with resisting arrest. If you don't fall to the ground fast enough to please them or put your hands behind your back fast enough,you can and often are charged with resisting arrest. There are several reason for this, of course one being the love to exert their authority and the other reason is when they arrest someone they like to try to charge them with as many things as they can in the hopes they can at least manke at least or or two of the charges stick.

Again, I don't know the facts in that case, but I won't accept it at face value either.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Bruce Springsteen Dedicates Song to Trayvon Martin at Wednesday Concert!

Bruce Springsteen Dedicates Song to Trayvon Martin at Wednesday Concert | WFJA Classic Hits and Oldies 105.5 FM | Sanford, NC Radio

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

I think the whole thing is totally ridiculous!

It's like society is a pool of piranhas swimming to and fro as someone throws out another chunk of meat waiting to devour one man or the other.

If you want to find dirt on either, you can and it's such a shame too! Especially those that are going with the conspiracy theory in an election year!

I won't be a bit surprised if I next hear that the whole thing was a set up by one party or the other wanting to usurp the election. I mean it's practically there already! :rolleyes:

As for me, I've had enough of the whole thing!!

My only hope is that justice prevails, whatever that may be and if it is even possible now.

RIP Trayvon...To everyone else, let him!!

Terra

Edit - I didn't mean you guys in the thread, I meant the media and those with agendas

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I think the whole thing is totally ridiculous!

It's like society is a pool of piranhas swimming to and fro as someone throws out another chunk of meat waiting to devour one man or the other.

If you want to find dirt on either, you can and it's such a shame too! Especially those that are going with the conspiracy theory in an election year!

I won't be a bit surprised if I next hear that the whole thing was a set up by one party or the other wanting to usurp the election. I mean it's practically there already! :rolleyes:

As for me, I've had enough of the whole thing!!

My only hope is that justice prevails, whatever that may be and if it is even possible now.

RIP Trayvon...To everyone else, let him!!

Terra

Edit - I didn't mean you guys in the thread, I meant the media and those with agendas

Conspiracy theory in an election year you say?

From the media and those with agendas???

If you care to elaborate I'll surely care to listen.

All The Best!!

TL

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Conspiracy theory in an election year you say?

From the media and those with agendas???

If you care to elaborate I'll surely care to listen.

All The Best!!

TL

I really wanted to be done with the whole thing because I find it completely sickening, however since you addressed me by name, I'll answer you.

This is what we know… the mainstream media is invested in Obama’s re-election. With nearly 90% of reporters voting for Democrats we should expect the news to be skewed or some facts conveniently ignored that may show Obama and/or Democrats in a less than flattering light. Now just how invested are those in the mainstream media in Obama’s re-election- well, it can’t be more evident than in the tragic death of Trayvon Martin.

Obama’s support among blacks had dropped to 83%- anything less than 92% support would mean certain defeat in November for the president. How to help Obama slipping approval among blacks- portray a tragic event in Florida as a white on black shooting of an innocent non-threatening teenager and then throw a question to the president on the tragedy so that he can enter into and become part of the discussion. Also, keep important facts of the tragedy out of the press so that the media created scenario of events helps to advance the agenda- to rally Obama’s core base of support.

Link

I think that is self explanatory.

Terra

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I really wanted to be done with the whole thing because I find it completely sickening, however since you addressed me by name, I'll answer you.

Link

I think that is self explanatory.

Terra

That's an very interesting take on the situation.

His assertion that black support for the POTUS has dipped to 83% is simply ridiculous.

Unless he calls MLK an a-hole or something like that, he'll enjoy at least 95% among blacks.

Why?

1: We vote Dem at least 90% almost all of the time anyway.

2: We like the direction he's trying to take the county.

3: We're as proud of him as the Irish and Catholics were of Kennedy in the 1960's.

Another issue I have with the blogger is that on the blog it states something to the effect of ...

... when Z was told by the 9-1-1 operator to stand down and not follow Trayvon - he complied.

Most people do not believe he stood down but instead proceeded to follow Trayvon.

Either the blogger has not been following the story or he is lying on purpose.

I suspect the later.

I'm sure any number of forces in the society can find ways to spin the tragedy in ways they think they can gain some advantage.

I believe in the end it will be a wash and no one, especially any political party or media outlet will gain any advantage from the tragedy.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

"My only hope is that justice prevails, whatever that may be"

Amen to that Terra.

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KimW

14 years ago

Tim,
You seem to think I am trying to protect Zimmerman. I am not. And I am not condemning Martin. All along all I have been doing it trying to present both sides of the story. Because most of the posters aren't. And both sides need to be represented to make a logical,intelligent decision.
All along I have said I hope he gets a fair trial and that justice is served.
Someone will say the Zimmerman attacked Martin,I will point out that there are two witnesses that say they saw Martin slamming Zimmerman's head into concrete. That is not defending or condemning either of them,just trying to present both sides.

I have never implied either was an angel or that either was the devil.

And I have also posted numerous times that all any of us can do is conjecture because none of us were there.
Between the sloppy police work and the lying press and the national "famous" people trying to get publicity,the whole thing has become a combination three ring circus and lynch mob.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

OK Kim. I'm just discussing this also. Some "facts" on both sides have turned out not to be true. The gang one is one of them I think. I feel it's unfortunate Trayvon's reputation is getting trampled upon and feel bad for the parents.

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Kay King

14 years ago

The piece of info I find to be missing is whether Zimmerman ever identified himself as "neighborhood watch".

I don't think Trayvon was a bad kid - but he was a big kid and 17 yr olds are often impulsive. I've seen kids that age get into someone's face or give a shove saying "what YOU lookin' at".

I don't think Zimmerman is a bad man - but I think he showed poor judgment and was over zealous. I think his life has pretty much been destroyed, too.

Any neighborhood that has "neighborhood" watch needs to have a recognizable vest or uniform as a requirement - and I think guns should be prohibited. A big flashlight would work better.

I have to ask - and I don't know the answer:

If the circumstances were exactly the same - and Zimmerman were black and Trayvon was white....which side would Sharpton and his followers be on? Interesting question? Would the argument then be "persecution" instead of "racial profiling"?

kay

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

The piece of info I find to be missing is whether Zimmerman ever identified himself as "neighborhood watch".

I don't think Trayvon was a bad kid - but he was a big kid and 17 yr olds are often impulsive. I've seen kids that age get into someone's face or give a shove saying "what YOU lookin' at".

I don't think Zimmerman is a bad man - but I think he showed poor judgment and was over zealous. I think his life has pretty much been destroyed, too.

Any neighborhood that has "neighborhood" watch needs to have a recognizable vest or uniform as a requirement - and I think guns should be prohibited. A big flashlight would work better.

Sounds obvious, but it isn't geerally a paid position, and do they ALWAYS zealously watch?

Originally Posted by Kay King

I have to ask - and I don't know the answer:

If the circumstances were exactly the same - and Zimmerman were black and Trayvon was white....which side would Sharpton and his followers be on? Interesting question? Would the argument then be "persecution" instead of "racial profiling"?

kay

Well, let's see..... *******EVERY******* time I have heard of them and their ilk protesting, etc... It has ALWAYS been for the side of minorities, and USUALLY blacks! SO....

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

The piece of info I find to be missing is whether Zimmerman ever identified himself as "neighborhood watch".

I don't think Trayvon was a bad kid - but he was a big kid and 17 yr olds are often impulsive. I've seen kids that age get into someone's face or give a shove saying "what YOU lookin' at".

I don't think Zimmerman is a bad man - but I think he showed poor judgment and was over zealous. I think his life has pretty much been destroyed, too.

Any neighborhood that has "neighborhood" watch needs to have a recognizable vest or uniform as a requirement - and I think guns should be prohibited. A big flashlight would work better.

I have to ask - and I don't know the answer:

If the circumstances were exactly the same - and Zimmerman were black and Trayvon was white....which side would Sharpton and his followers be on?

Interesting question?

Would the argument then be "persecution" instead of "racial profiling"?

kay

The answer should be obvious.

IMO...

The position of Zimmerman's is indefensible in this case - since he actually followed Trayvon and somehow ended up kiling him...

...and if the shoe had been on the other foot it would still be indefensible.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Terra,
I posted that link in post #217

But I certainly didn't agree with that part of the article.

"This is what we know... the mainstream media is invested in Obama's re-election. With nearly 90% of reporters voting for Democrats ..."

Reading it made me think of the statement "98% (or fill in your own number) of statistics are made up on the spot.

"Obama's support among blacks had dropped to 83%- anything less than 92% support would mean certain defeat in November for the president. "

Another made up figure in my opinion. Blacks do not decide the election,a combination of all the voters do.

That reminded me of a discussion I had with someone on FB. He was a union hater and blamed all the problems of the country on unions. He even blamed the illegal alien problem on unions. :rolleyes:

I don't want this to turn into a political discussion,but I cannot agree with that part of the article.

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

I didn't agree with it either. :rolleyes:

I was just showing TL what some idiotic people are doing with and saying about the incident because he asked.

Just unbelievable!!

Terra
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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Terra,
I posted that link in post #217

But I certainly didn't agree with that part of the article.

"This is what we know... the mainstream media is invested in Obama's re-election. With nearly 90% of reporters voting for Democrats ..."

Reading it made me think of the statement "98% (or fill in your own number) of statistics are made up on the spot.

"Obama's support among blacks had dropped to 83%- anything less than 92% support would mean certain defeat in November for the president. "

Another made up figure in my opinion. Blacks do not decide the election,a combination of all the voters do.

That reminded me of a discussion I had with someone on FB. He was a union hater and blamed all the problems of the country on unions. He even blamed the illegal alien problem on unions. :rolleyes:

I don't want this to turn into a political discussion,but I cannot agree with that part of the article.

I couldn't comment, but I was watching your comments to that guy scroll by on my page...I turned down my TV because ya'll were much more entertaining...

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KimW

14 years ago

LOL Dave,
That really was a lot of fun for me.
I know, I have a sick sense of humour.
I was in the ER having an IV drip and didn't have anything better to do.

And of course this was probably his response that had me almost spew on my ipod.
"Are those paragraphs in lieu of striking me with your purse? Once you have graduated an accredited university with a BS & MS, raised a family, owned a business and met a payroll, served honorably in the military, purchased a home and paid property taxes, I might just consider your political views and entertain you with debate. Until then, stick to cheap card tricks. If you don't like what someone posts, block it, delete it, or ignore it rather than getting yourself upset."

All I had to say was I had done all those things except serve in the military.

I also have to confess I have now gone back and deleted all my posts so he really looks like an idiot talking to himself now.

The thing is these discussions (here or on FB) rarely if ever really get me upset or angry. As we all know,life is too short to be negative.

He never put together the fact that the original poster of that thread was my brother in law.

Anyways, now back to our regularly scheduled debate.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

LOL Dave,
That really was a lot of fun for me.
I know, I have a sick sense of humour.
I was in the ER having an IV drip and didn't have anything better to do.

And of course this was probably his response that had me almost spew on my ipod.
"Are those paragraphs in lieu of striking me with your purse? Once you have graduated an accredited university with a BS & MS, raised a family, owned a business and met a payroll, served honorably in the military, purchased a home and paid property taxes, I might just consider your political views and entertain you with debate. Until then, stick to cheap card tricks. If you don't like what someone posts, block it, delete it, or ignore it rather than getting yourself upset."

All I had to say was I had done all those things except serve in the military.

I also have to confess I have now gone back and deleted all my posts so he really looks like an idiot talking to himself now.

The thing is these discussions (here or on FB) rarely if ever really get me upset or angry. As we all know,life is too short to be negative.

He never put together the fact that the original poster of that thread was my brother in law.

Anyways, now back to our regularly scheduled debate.

OK....now it's TWICE as funny...

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Zimmerman had every right to be wherever he chose. 911 operators are not the law. My guess is that the 911 operator gave that advice (and that's all it was) out of concern for Zimmerman's safety.

It's not against the law to approach someone and converse with him yet.

My guess is you don't know how neighborhood watch organisation are suppose to work

Originally Posted by KimW

Pursue a person is such a vague statement. I can be walking down the street and someone that is walking faster than me and catching up with me could easily be considered pursuing me.
And of course, laws vary from state to state but I am sure if I saw someone commit any crime I could pursue them.The average citizen is not educated in what constitutes a felony or a misdemeanor.

While I never worked security, My business partner owned a security company. We had numerous discussions about the business because I was curious.

I agree there are ways to approach someone without being confrontation,and of course in my opinion anyone in a neighborhood watch program should be taught those methods.

But the scenerio that has been broadcast the most is that the victim came up to zimmerman ,not the other way around.
As has been stated,there are certain things that make that story sounds suspect,so I don't know if its true or not.

Kim neighborhood watch groups are instructed to never approach anyone they suspect of committing a crime. All they are required to do is observe and report.
It's a safety and liability issue.
They are also told not to carry any type of weapon other then a cell phone.
When a watch group starts carrying weapons they become vigilantes not neighborhood watch groups.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

My guess is you don't know how neighborhood watch organisation are suppose to work

Kim neighborhood watch groups are instructed to never approach anyone they suspect of committing a crime. All they are required to do is observe and report.
It's a safety and liability issue.
They are also told not to carry any type of weapon other then a cell phone.
When a watch group starts carrying weapons they become vigilantes not neighborhood watch groups.

Thom, your first statement definitely applies to me. I do not know how neighborhood watch groups work.

As far as the rest, I really was addressing what Young And Opulent posted about only being able to follow someone if you see them commit a felony..
What you are saying makes a lot of sense to me.
I didn't say this before, because I don't know for sure,but I had always thought neighborhood watch did patrols in at least a group of two both for their safety and to make sure events like this didn't happen.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Recent CNN Poll...

CNN poll: Majority call for arrest in Trayvon Martin shooting - CNN

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KimW

14 years ago

"I'm sure any number of forces in the society can find ways to spin the tragedy in ways they think they can gain some advantage."

CNN poll: Majority call for arrest in Trayvon Martin shooting

Polls shows Zimmerman should go free:

POLL: Should George Zimmerman Be Arrested? - Montgomery Village, MD Patch
Poll Shows Americans Don't Want Zimmerman Arrested
.: Poll Results - Should George Zimmerman be arrested in the Trayvon Martin killing in FL? : The Allen Hunt Show : It's not what's right or left but what's right or wrong ® :.

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CBusiness

14 years ago

Dude got out of the car and persued the kid after Police told him NOT TO DO THIS........ ... Lol where do people think there's any justice beyond this? ? ? If he would have waited for cops to come and did as REAL POLICE stated, Trayvon would likely still be alive

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CBusiness

Dude got out of the car and persued the kid after Police told him NOT TO DO THIS........ ... Lol where do people think there's any justice beyond this? ? ? If he would have waited for cops to come and did as REAL POLICE stated, Trayvon would likely still be alive

Were you there? Did you see this? The actual chain of events hopefully will come out in the court during the trial. Hopefully not in the court of public opinion where most,but thankfully not all, have already tried and convicted.

Innocent until proven guilty? Apparently not to most in this country anymore.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Which trial is that?

Originally Posted by KimW

The actual chain of events hopefully will come out in the court during the trial.

I actually don't think that this is disputed at all Kim. That's one thing we do know: Z followed him and killed him. How is this disputed?

Originally Posted by KimW

"since he actually followed Trayvon and somehow ended up kiling him..."

Again, the chain of events is not known to you or me. This version has been disputed.Note,I didn't say discredited,but it is disputed at this time.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Which trial is that?

I actually don't think that this is disputed at all Kim. That's one thing we do know: Z followed him and killed him. How is this disputed?

Tim,
Which trial is that?
We all know there will be charges filed against Zimmerman and he will go to trial.Either for murder or at the very least manslaughter.
That's the trial I am talking about.

As far as:" That's one thing we do know: Z followed him and killed him. How is this disputed?"

I answered that in the very same post.

"Another version says that Zimmerman was walking to his vehicle when Martin assaulted him.This version is also under disputer. Not discredited,but under dispute."

And there are supposedly witnesses to the assault.

It is not as black and white as"Zimmerman followed him and killed him."

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Well, some people still think there won't be a trial. I hope you are right, but it doesn't seem to be a sure thing yet.

Also, Zimmerman did get out of his car and ended up killing Martin. What happened in between is uncertain, but I think TLs statement is correct.

Originally Posted by KimW

Tim,
Which trial is that?
We all know there will be charges filed against Zimmerman and he will go to trial.Either for murder or at the very least manslaughter.
That's the trial I am talking about.

As far as:" That's one thing we do know: Z followed him and killed him. How is this disputed?"

I answered that in the very same post.

"Another version says that Zimmerman was walking to his vehicle when Martin assaulted him.This version is also under disputer. Not discredited,but under dispute."

And there are supposedly witnesses to the assault.

It is not as black and white as"Zimmerman followed him and killed him."

By the way Tim, I sent you a message on FB.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Can anyone give me any background on this guy Wolfzinger?? Who is he? What's his stake in this?

"Zimmerman was freed based on overruling police at the scene by an order from Tallahassee originating from Norman Wolfzinger who had not interviewed Zimmerman or any evidence before making the decision. It is not known if there is a relationship between the Zimmerman family and Wolfzinger, an Army Vietnam veteran. We have been unable to reach Wolfziner despite calls to his office."

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Can anyone give me any background on this guy Wolfzinger?? Who is he? What's his stake in this?

"Zimmerman was freed based on overruling police at the scene by an order from Tallahassee originating from Norman Wolfzinger who had not interviewed Zimmerman or any evidence before making the decision. It is not known if there is a relationship between the Zimmerman family and Wolfzinger, an Army Vietnam veteran. We have been unable to reach Wolfziner despite calls to his office."

First time I have seen his name or even heard this mentioned. The plot thickens,eh?

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

First time I have seen his name or even heard this mentioned. The plot thickens,eh?

Read that link I put in post 222 - there is some interesting stuff in there, some speculative, but a lot factual...
Like a lot of stories have been referring Z dad as a judge, but he was a 'magistrate' in Va., and they don't classify that as a judge there,

“Robert J. Zimmerman served as a full-time magistrate from 2000-2006. Please be advised that in Virginia magistrates are judicial officers, but they are not considered “judges” and do not possess trial jurisdiction. More detailed information on the role of the magistrate in Virginia is available on Virginia’s Judicial System Website.”

Whether that experience helped the elder Zimmerman assist his son out of the various prior legal scrapes he found himself in, including a charge of resisting arrest with violence in 2005 and a domestic violence charge, is unclear. Florida’s laws and Virginia’s are different.

But it does indicate that Robert Zimmerman was knowledgeable enough about the criminal justice system that he may have been a valuable resource for his son

.as they don't have trial duty...but when I read "Tallahassee" "Norman Wolfzinger", and 'dismissed without any examination of the case'?...who is this guy, who has that kind of executive power to override a city or county criminal investigation, and why? Meet Norman Wolfzinger:http://sa18.state.fl.us/nwbio.htm

Is he another wild goose chase?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Read that link I put in post 222 - there is some interesting stuff in there, some speculative, but a lot factual...
Like a lot of stories have been referring Z dad as a judge, but he was a 'magistrate' in Va., and they don't classify that as a judge there,

.as they don't have trial duty...but when I read "Tallahassee" "Norman Wolfzinger", and 'dismissed without any examination of the case'?...who is this guy, who has that kind of executive power to override a city or county criminal investigation, and why? Meet Norman Wolfzinger:Meet Your State Attorney

Is he another wild goose chase?

3M,
I am in Virginia and that information is correct, a magistrate and a Judge are two totally different things. Here if you are arrested and accused of a crime you go before a magistrate and he decides A) if they have enough evidence or probable cause to charge you and if he feels they do he authorizes those charges and he also sets bail/bond.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

3M,
I am in Virginia and that information is correct, a magistrate and a Judge are two totally different things. Here if you are arrested and accused of a crime you go before a magistrate and he decides A) if they have enough evidence or probable cause to charge you and if he feels they do he authorizes those charges and he also sets bail/bond.

With experience as a magistrate, he certainly may have the legal wherewithal to possibly influence the decision of a state attorney - but it was in another state, and this guy is retired,(Z dad) what influence could he exhibit?

Is magistrate in VA an elected position, or an appointed one?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

With experience as a magistrate, he certainly may have the legal wherewithal to possibly influence the decision of a state attorney - but it was in another state, and this guy is retired,(Z dad) what influence could he exhibit?

Is magistrate in VA an elected position, or an appointed one?

Looks like they are appointed:
http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/cib.pdf

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Looks like they are appointed:
http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/cib.pdf

So it looks like Magistrates are akin to handling judicial triage in that respect...if you wanted to put it in rank, sort of like Lt. Court Clerk...certainly right up his alley...

The Virginia court system is subdivided into supreme and circuit courts, lower courts and magistrates, who perform judicial functions such as conducting "probable cause" hearings on criminal complaints brought by police and determining whether a person who has been arrested is eligible for bail.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

So it looks like Magistrates are akin to handling judicial triage in that respect...if you wanted to put it in rank, sort of like Lt. Court Clerk...certainly right up his alley...

The Virginia court system is subdivided into supreme and circuit courts, lower courts and magistrates, who perform judicial functions such as conducting "probable cause" hearings on criminal complaints brought by police and determining whether a person who has been arrested is eligible for bail.

I believe that's what I said here:
http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post5945668

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

First time I have seen his name or even heard this mentioned. The plot thickens,eh?

He's with the FL State Attorney Generals office and has also distanced himself from the case. HE'S the one that made the decision not to arrest Z although the Sanford Police DID have charges prepared....just needed approval from SAG office from what I understand.

I also saw somewhere an interview with a police officer where he stated that Wolfinger had made a comment about "it being an election year..." (or something along those lines.)

Can't find that interview now though...(?)

From what I see (media, police, SAG, public, etc.) there's a WHOLE LOT of wrong in this case from every direction...
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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

I love that - "This is not a scientific poll." - Like, really...is any poll 'scientific'?
You can't even get a straight answer from the North Pole...it's forever changing it's position...

Were you there? Did you see this? The actual chain of events hopefully will come out in the court during the trial. Hopefully not in the court of public opinion where most,but thankfully not all, have already tried and convicted.

Innocent until proven guilty? Apparently not to most in the country anymore.

I read one of the stories listed in here (so many now, I can't remember which) where the guy wrote the piece like he WAS there...it was an incredibly 'psychic' and 'speculative' work of 'journalism' to say the least.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I love that - "This is not a scientific poll." - Like, really...is any poll 'scientific'?
You can't even get a straight answer from the North Pole...it's forever changing it's position...

I read one of the stories listed in here (so many now, I can't remember which) where the guy wrote the piece like he WAS there...it was an incredibly 'psychic' and 'speculative' work of 'journalism' to say the least.

lol, I can't tell if you are in agreement or disagreement with me on this. Either way I respect your opinion.

So far most of the press we have been subjected to has been speculative works of 'journalism. Both those for Zimmerman and those against.

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KimW

14 years ago

"since he actually followed Trayvon and somehow ended up kiling him..."

Again, the chain of events is not known to you or me. This version has been disputed.Note,I didn't say discredited,but it is disputed at this time.

Another version says that Zimmerman was walking to his vehicle when Martin assaulted him.
This version is also under disputer. Not discredited,but under dispute.

Which one is correct, You don't know and I don't know.

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KimW

14 years ago

Thanks Dave.
Pretty strange that he made the decision on no charges and now has distanced himself from the case.
I am in complete agreement with you that there is a whole lot wrong here,and hopefully someone will get to the bottom of whats going on.

There is no black and white in this case (and seriously,no pun intended). The whole thing stinks from every angle.

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KimW

14 years ago

I am actually willing to bet money on two different events happening,any takers?

1: he will go to trial

2: he will be found guilty of either murder or at the very least manslaughter OR he gets off because of mental instability. He certainly seems to have a history of that.

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CBusiness

14 years ago

some people are idiots LOL

Did somebody really just ask if I was there ot know if Zimmerman followed Trayvon?

He says it in his phone conversation..... He is following hima nd not letting him get awy.. you can hear him running...........

Point blank period..... THEY WERE NO LONGER IN THE CAR where Trayvon was killed and a distance away in some sort of 'behind the houses' alley

Gotta love the ignorance some people possess and try to hide bu tit's otvious...............

Either way.... This is a Freemason vs a Freemason....... One ranks higher (Zimmermans' father )

Zimmerman got away because he gave them the high ranking handshake and told a lie. Point blank period. For violating the code of trust in the brotherhood, he should face time period

the average person won't understand or believe the conspiracies that are taking place right now

However, if you know.. and i mean... REALLY KNOW from experience what the power of a freemason is when it comes to Police and the Judicial system, you're speaking with no understanding.

Zimmerman is guilty though. Common sense should not escape anyone in this situation. You odnt need more evidence to k now he's guilty and wrong and this was a murder... period....

If Trayvon would have been the average black kid in Ameirca, high chances this would have been covered up. The problem is, they've (Zimmerman / Sanford Police & co) rudely awakened the Prince Hall freemasons and this is not going to go away

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by CBusiness

some people are idiots LOL

Did somebody really just ask if I was there ot know if Zimmerman followed Trayvon?

He says it in his phone conversation..... He is following hima nd not letting him get awy.. you can hear him running...........

Point blank period..... THEY WERE NO LONGER IN THE CAR where Trayvon was killed and a distance away in some sort of 'behind the houses' alley

Gotta love the ignorance some people possess and try to hide bu tit's otvious...............

Either way.... This is a Freemason vs a Freemason....... One ranks higher (Zimmermans' father )

Zimmerman got away because he gave them the high ranking handshake and told a lie. Point blank period. For violating the code of trust in the brotherhood, he should face time period

the average person won't understand or believe the conspiracies that are taking place right now

However, if you know.. and i mean... REALLY KNOW from experience what the power of a freemason is when it comes to Police and the Judicial system, you're speaking with no understanding.

Zimmerman is guilty though. Common sense should not escape anyone in this situation. You odnt need more evidence to k now he's guilty and wrong and this was a murder... period....

If Trayvon would have been the average black kid in Ameirca, high chances this would have been covered up. The problem is, they've (Zimmerman / Sanford Police & co) rudely awakened the Prince Hall freemasons and this is not going to go away

"some people are idiots LOL"
"Gotta love the ignorance some people possess "

Such as you?

Yes I asked if you were there and the answer is no,you were not. People insult when they have no valid arguments,and you have proven it by trying to bring a Freemason conspiracy into this.

"Either way.... This is a Freemason vs a Freemason....... One ranks higher (Zimmermans' father )"

I have heard some wild theories but to make this into a Freemason conspiracy really makes me wonder if you have taken your tin foil hat off in years. :rolleyes:

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Bruce Springsteen Dedicates Song to Trayvon Martin at Wednesday Concert | WFJA Classic Hits and Oldies 105.5 FM | Sanford, NC Radio

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

According to a reporter on MSNBC, who showed footage of exactly where Trayvon's body was found.

1: It was nowhere near an alley.

2: He was found in a grassy area in the back of the townhouses.

3: He was found far from any concrete or the curb.

4: He was about 100 yards away from where he was visiting.

TL

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waterotter

14 years ago

What a joke, wake up people, this is scary sh$t: Concealed Weapon or Firearm License Preliminary Eligibility Determination, Division of Licensing - FDACS

If I click on any of the links, I get Oops!....link cannot be found.

Have they shut this down - I certainly hope so.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

What a joke, wake up people, this is scary sh: Concealed Weapon or Firearm License Preliminary Eligibility Determination, Division of Licensing - FDACS

If I click on any of the links, I get Oops!....link cannot be found.

Have they shut this down - I certainly hope so.

It's only a preliminary questionnare so you don't waste your time OR the States time if you don't qualify for a concealed weapons permit.

You can't just automatically get a permit based on this alone.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

What a joke, wake up people, this is scary sh: Concealed Weapon or Firearm License Preliminary Eligibility Determination, Division of Licensing - FDACS

If I click on any of the links, I get Oops!....link cannot be found.

Have they shut this down - I certainly hope so.

No, link is working fine.

And yes it is scary.

When you posted it a few days ago I went ,read it,and actually posted on it here in this thread. The laws there are beyond belief. I could get a gun license for my dog (if I owned one).

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KimW

14 years ago

Gary,
We have disagreed on many things in the past but we seem to be together on this.
Seems we both are interested in the truth more than trying someone in public,and that includes the truth on both of them.

One thing that gets me is that if we say something contrary to some of the other posters here we get the "he didn't deserve deserved to die" statement,but I have never said he did and I have never seen you say he did.

Past behavior IS very important. It can show a tendency to certain actions.But of course they say it isn't relevant then they bring Zimmerman's past behavior in. Isn't that some kind of double standard?

Just like you, I hop[e justice is served,and I mean real justice,not the lynch mob mentality I see here from people that are more interested in making "their" case than in the real case.

I have already stated numerous times that if he is tried and found guilty he gets the punishment he deserves. And a few posts up I have publicly stated what I think will happen.

I have zero qualms about stating I want real justice in this case.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Gary,
We have disagreed on many things in the past but we seem to be together on this.
Seems we both are interested in the truth more than trying someone in public,and that includes the truth on both of them.

One thing that gets me is that if we say something contrary to some of the other posters here we get the "he didn't deserve deserved to die" statement,but I have never said he did and I have never seen you say he did.

Past behavior IS very important. It can show a tendency to certain actions.But of course they say it isn't relevant then they bring Zimmerman's past behavior in. Isn't that some kind of double standard?

Just like you, I hop[e justice is served,and I mean real justice,not the lynch mob mentality I see here from people that are more interested in making "their" case than in the real case.

I have already stated numerous times that if he is tried and found guilty he gets the punishment he deserves. And a few posts up I have publicly stated what I think will happen.

I have zero qualms about stating I want real justice in this case.

Amen - I agree. If Zimmerman is guilty of a crime, then he should pay dearly. I just hate the way this thing has turned into a black vs white thing , when it's clearly not that. - Well at least it shouldn't have been that. It is now that the News media has molded it.

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KimW

14 years ago

Actually this is a better link to use:
Form/Publication Request 790 - Division of Licensing, FDACS

or this one:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/contacts/faq.html

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

What's scary? Am I missing something here...?

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

What's scary? Am I missing something here...?

I must be missing something there too. The link I'm seeing is just a test questionnaire - it's not actually a real application for a license.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I must be missing something there too. The link I'm seeing is just a test questionnaire - it's not actually a real application for a license.

It's a "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License Preliminary Eligibility Determination"....read on...." If your answers indicate you must submit supplemental materials with your application to prove your eligibility, you will be informed what is needed."

How simple is that? Technically, anyone can submit this - checking the questions in their favor, thus eliminating the need for supplemental material. Safe - this is supposed to reinforce my semblance of safety by issuing concealed weapons permits to anyone???

I live in Canada, so this doesn't affect me directly (indirectly, yes), as we do have problems with Canadians obtaining illegal weapons from the States.

This is an article worthwhile reading from someone in law enforcement:

Why was George Zimmerman carrying a gun? « DUFL Press

As for Trayvon's character - I would have been proud to tell the public I knew him. Unfortunately, I didn't have that chance. When I read and hear about a 17 year old kid who volunteers his time in 2012 - that in-itself speaks volumes about his character and the missed opportunities for the younger generation to learn from him. Trayvon raised the bar - but he has been silenced - does your child volunteer their time? Just a thought provoking question. I know I volunteered my time at his age (and much younger) - I just thought I was helping old people to eat because eveyone else was too busy with other stuff. That was my thought process at that time - I was about 10 yrs. old. I do believe that same thought process has helped myself and many others to this day, and I hope this will continue.

Everyone wants to focus on the negative regarding Trayvon. Read about his positive influences. How many lives could he have touched/reached if he were still here today?

Protesters declare 'I am Trayvon Martin,' but who was he? - CNN.com

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

"It's a "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License Preliminary Eligibility Determination"....read on...." If your answers indicate you must submit supplemental materials with your application to prove your eligibility, you will be informed what is needed."

How simple is that? Technically, anyone can submit this - checking the questions in their favor, thus eliminating the need for supplemental material. Safe - this is supposed to reinforce my semblance of safety by issuing concealed weapons permits to anyone???"

Jody...

This IS NOT an actual application. That is done, in person at the Sheriffs Office.

All this does is let an individual know ahead of time if he should even bother applying.

An applicant MUST wait for an FBI background check to be completed.

Let's say I am applying for an application and I have 3 DUI's in the past but have checked NO on the actual application....

Busted....due to the FBI check! Whether or not FL has penalties for lying on their application, I don't know...but assume they DO.

I hope my explanation will allow you to sleep tonight...

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

"It's a "Concealed Weapon or Firearm License Preliminary Eligibility Determination"....read on...." If your answers indicate you must submit supplemental materials with your application to prove your eligibility, you will be informed what is needed."

How simple is that? Technically, anyone can submit this - checking the questions in their favor, thus eliminating the need for supplemental material. Safe - this is supposed to reinforce my semblance of safety by issuing concealed weapons permits to anyone???"

Jody...

This IS NOT an actual application. That is done, in person at the Sheriffs Office.

All this does is let an individual know ahead of time if he should even bother applying.

An applicant MUST wait for an FBI background check to be completed.

Let's say I am applying for an application and I have 3 DUI's in the past but have checked NO on the actual application....

Busted....due to the FBI check! Whether or not FL has penalties for lying on their application, I don't know...but assume they DO.

I hope my explanation will allow you to sleep tonight...

Dave, I posted a link earlier in the thread - about Florida's gun laws and regulations.

It is more difficult for me to obtain a driver's licence here than it is to obtain a licence to carry a concealed weapon in the State of Florida.

New Process to apply for a Florida Concealed Weapon or Firearm License
The below info is on the new process for applying for you FCWFL.
This has proved to result in receiving your license in approx 1 week.

How do I apply for a license?

1. Make an appointment by contacting any regional offices below.
2. Once you arrive at the regional office, you will complete your CWFL application on their computer.
3. You will need to show proof that you completed a ccw course or other proof as outlined in F.S. 790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm (2) (h) 1-7.
4. You will need to provide payment of the $117.00.
5. You will have your fingerprints taken via livescan.
6. You will have your a digital photograph taken of your beautiful mug.
7. You will sign and the staff member will notarize your application.

Approximate time to complete 30 minutes. Most people report the process was 15 minutes. This can also be done from home vial computer.

Florida's Department of Agriculture is responsible for issuing the gun permits/licences in that State.

It's comforting to know the same folks that regulate peaches also issue concealed weapons permits.

BTW: I would call Zimmermans police record into question here - if he can legally carry a concealed weapon with a documented history of violence - how many others with a checkered past are walking the streets with these same weapons?

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KimW

14 years ago

Sorry Dave and Gary, I posted different links than Jody's.
My comment about it being scary was the whole Florida process,not the actual link Jody posted. Jody's link was just a questionaire as both of you have said.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Sorry Dave and Gary, I posted different links than Jody's.
My comment about it being scary was the whole Florida process,not the actual link Jody posted. Jody's link was just a questionaire as both of you have said.

Ah I see. But I think you still have to send in fingerprints etc.

A majority of crimes are committed by people that don't license their weapons anyway. Stricter licensing does not keep weapons away from criminals.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Ah I see. But I think you still have to send in fingerprints etc.

A majority of crimes are committed by people that don't license their weapons anyway. Stricter licensing does not keep weapons away from criminals.

I can agree with that. If someone wants a gun,it can be gotten very easily,legally or not. I am not a gun person ,but I bet I could place an ad on Craigslist or similar places and buy one within 2-3 days. ( Maybe I shouldn't make that bet because I don't know if Craiglists allows weapon ads,but I would think they would under "sporting goods".).

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Here's the video of Zimmerman at the police station. STOP at 1:04...

Make sure you have video at fullscreen. There MAY be small scrape on the back of his head, but if thats what I see it's not very serious...it's not even bandaged.

Full screen 1:04.

Zimmerman Video: Did Cops Actually Arrest Him? | Reuters
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Bringing up this kids past for such things as smoking dope and getting suspended and claiming it is relevant to what happened is like bringing up what a woman was wearing when she gets raped. It disgusts me quite frankly.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Bringing up this kids past for such things as smoking dope and getting suspended and claiming it is relevant to what happened is like bringing up what a woman was wearing when she gets raped. It disgusts me quite frankly.

I actually almost made mention of the fact that in that situation (a woman getting raped) it is NOT the same. No correlation at all Tim, but it does occur.And that also disgusts me, but again, comparing apples to oranges in this case.

But let me ask you this, what about this?
"The Miami Herald claims that in October, he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver - and 12 pieces of women's jewellery. Martin insisted that they did not belong to him. "

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

It is the same in that these things are totally irrelevant to the case and are being against the victim. Lets stay to the facts like you keep saying Kim: He was found only with a bag of skittles, an ice tea and a cell phone. Nothing else. No pot. No screwdriver. No weapon. Anything else is pure speculation.

Originally Posted by KimW

I actually almost made mention of the fact that in that situation (a woman getting raped) it is NOT the same. No correlation at all Tim, but it does occur.And that also disgusts me, but again, comparing apples to oranges in this case.

But let me ask you this, what about this?
"The Miami Herald claims that in October, he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver - and 12 pieces of women's jewellery. Martin insisted that they did not belong to him. "

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It is the same in that these things are totally irrelevant to the case. Lets stay to the facts like you keep saying Kim: He was found only with a bag of skittles, an ice tea and a cell phone. Nothing else. No pot. No screwdriver. No weapon. Anything else is pure speculation.

I have stayed to the facts,where did I deviate?

Again Tim, his past is very relevant to this case. If he was the fine outstanding straight A student that played football and had a scholarship to a A+ college,would you claim that was not relevant and shouldn't be brought up?

I really think I wouldn't see anyone having objections to that information being mentioned.

Edit:
"Anything else is pure speculation. "
Just as I have been saying about this thread, everything in here is pure conjecture on all of our parts because none of us were there and know what really happened".

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

You deviated by mentioning unproven rumors such as the gang one, which you then went on to say there was evidence to support these claims by the links you posted which actually didn't prove anything. You deviated by saying things such as smoking pot and being suspened a couple of times had any relevancy in this case. And by the way, having straight A's, playing football and getting a scholarship would not be any more relevant. Are you serious?!

Originally Posted by KimW

I have stayed to the facts,where did I deviate?

Again Tim, his past is very relevant to this case. If he was the fine outstanding straight A student that played football and had a scholarship to a A+ college,would you claim that was not relevant and shouldn't be brought up?

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

But let me ask you this, what about this?
"The Miami Herald claims that in October, he was caught with a 'burglary tool' - a flathead screwdriver - and 12 pieces of women's jewellery. Martin insisted that they did not belong to him. "

Well, that's better. I'm glad he's dead now. I mean after all, doesn't Florida have the death penalty or something for being caught with a burglary tool?

Of course there's Zimmerman's police record too. So let's say Trayvon has a couple of issues as many teenagers do. None of them involve violence. On the other hand, Zimmerman's record and two of them involve violence and now three of them since he blew away an unarmed teenager.

The three incidents took place in Orange County, Fla.

In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer," both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to "resisting officer without violence" and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.

In August 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

In December 2006, Zimmerman was charged with speeding. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court.

U.S. News - Zimmerman accused of domestic violence, fighting with a police officer

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well, that's better. I'm glad he's dead now. I mean after all, doesn't Florida have the death penalty or something for being caught with a burglary tool?

Of course there's Zimmerman's police record too. So let's say Trayvon has a couple of issues as many teenagers do. None of them involve violence. On the other hand, we Zimmerman's record and two of them involve violence and now three of them since he blew away an unarmed teenager.

The three incidents took place in Orange County, Fla.

In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer," both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to "resisting officer without violence" and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.

In August 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

In December 2006, Zimmerman was charged with speeding. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court.

U.S. News - Zimmerman accused of domestic violence, fighting with a police officer

The cop he "assaulted" was an undercover cop who never identified (may have vocalized but didn't show credentials) himself. Probably was one of those young looking guys used in stings at convenience stores/bars etc....

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

The cop he "assaulted" was an undercover cop who never identified (may have vocalized but didn't show credentials) himself. Probably was one of those young looking guys used in stings at convenience stores/bars etc....

And that is relevant how? We're talking about histories. Assault is assault no matter who is assaulted. Zimmerman is the one with a prior violent history. Domestic abuse and assaulting a whatever.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

And that is relevant how? We're talking about histories. Assault is assault no matter who is assaulted. Zimmerman is the one with a prior violent history. Domestic abuse and assaulting a whatever.

Actually assault is not always assault.
In this state where you and I live, assault is defined as any unlawful touching.
I could be walking down the street and bump into you and you can claim assault. Was it assault, no but if you pushed it and you found either a jerk of a cop and /or jerk of a magistrate you could still try to prosecute me for assault.
Doesn't mean you would win,but it would still be a pain in the ass hiring a lawyer and going to court and such.
So,assault is NOT always assault.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Actually assault is not always assault.
In this state where you and I live, assault is defined as any unlawful touching.

Well how's "resisting arrest with violence" .. because that was the actual charge. He wasn't charged for "touching" a police officer.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well how's "resisting arrest with violence" .. because that was the actual charge. He wasn't charged for "touching" a police officer.

His version has just been posted (not by me)
But it says the charge was lowered to resisting arrest WITHOUT violence and then they were dropped completely.

But honestly I don't care. As I have said, I don't defend him.

When you mentioned the no blood and visible signs of injuries I said some may not be visible (ask any nurse if you know any) but that if records were provided to show he did or did not have a broken nose that would be a major factor.

When you mentioned a video that showed something, I was willing to watch it.

I am willing to look at all the facts on both sides.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

His version has just been posted (not by me)
But it says the charge was lowered to resisting arrest WITHOUT violence and then they were dropped completely.

But honestly I don't care. As I have said, I don't defend him.

When you mentioned the no blood and visible signs of injuries I said some may not be visible (ask any nurse if you know any) but that if records were provided to show he did or did not have a broken nose that would be a major factor.

When you mentioned a video that showed something, I was willing to watch it.

I am willing to look at all the facts on both sides.

Kim, the charges were dropped only after he agreed to go to an alcohol education program. That was the plea deal he got.

According to the IT department of the city of Sanford, the timestamp on the video is accurate, meaning Zimmerman was at the station 36 minutes after gunshots were heard on a 911 call.

A spokeswoman for the State Attorney assigned as special prosecutor to the Martin shooting death investigation said Thursday that the surveillance video of Zimmerman was not authorized to be released.

The facts I mentioned that I care about ... the fact that this boy had every right as a citizen of this country to go to the store and make it home safely and that he would have if it were not for Zimmerman pursuing, confronting and killing him ... those facts are not in dispute. They are clearly documented on the 911 call that most people in the US have heard every word of by now.

We heard on the 911 call that Zimmerman called them to say that a guy was acting suspiciously. He was told not to pursue him. He ignored that and pursued him anyway. Confronted him and an unarmed kid ends up dead. I already posted a link to the video, but all of the videos on the Internet are excerpts of the full video that was on TV, which you apparently did not watch.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Kim, the charges were dropped only after he agreed to go to an alcohol education program. That was the plea deal he got.

The only report I have read is what 3M just posted. I would not be surprised or dispute what you are saying though,pleaing down charges are an integral part of our legal system.( not one I always agree with though).

The facts I mentioned that I care about ... the fact that this boy had every right as a citizen of this country to go to the store and make it home safely and that he would have if it were not for Zimmerman pursuing, confronting and killing him ... those facts are not in dispute. They are clearly documented on the 911 call that most people in the US have heard every word of by now.

The part I disagreed with before and still do is ARE those really ALL the facts.
I think there is more to it than " Zimmerman pursuing, confronting and killing him ..." but even listening to one side of a 911 call doesn't tell us all that needs to be known. I'm listening to my stepdaughter talk on the phone in the other room right now and I can only make assumptions of what is going on in her discussion.
I do not dispute the fact that Zimmerman did not have the right to kill him.Zimmerman did not have the right to kill anyone. And if it i9s shown that your version of what happened is the actual version. Zimmerman should be tried for 1st degree murder.But if it is shown that Zimmerman's version has some truth in it,depending on what that "truth" is,then he should be tried for manslaughter.

We heard on the 911 call that Zimmerman called them to say that a guy was acting suspiciously. He was told not to pursue him. He ignored that and pursued him anyway. Confronted him and an unarmed kid ends up dead. I already posted a link to the video, but all of the videos on the Internet are excerpts of the full video that was on TV, which you apparently did not watch.

No, I did not watch the video on TV, though I had to say I mispoke when I said I don't watch tv. I am a History channel addict,and I occasionally watch MSNBC.(7-9AM,its called Morning Joe). Since I believe most of the media lies to us I get my news from various sources online for the most part.

Again, I am not for or against either of these people. All I am interested in is the truth and justice being served

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well, that's better. I'm glad he's dead now. I mean after all, doesn't Florida have the death penalty or something for being caught with a burglary tool?

Of course there's Zimmerman's police record too. So let's say Trayvon has a couple of issues as many teenagers do. None of them involve violence.Actually it is stated he assaulted a bus driver On the other hand, we Zimmerman's record and two of them involve violence and now three of them since he blew away an unarmed teenager.

The three incidents took place in Orange County, Fla.

In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer," both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to "resisting officer without violence" and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.

In August 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

In December 2006, Zimmerman was charged with speeding. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court.

U.S. News - Zimmerman accused of domestic violence, fighting with a police officer

If you have read all the thread you will see that I am not defending Zimmerman. Actually you wouldn't even have to read all of it because I make sure I mention that every few posts.

But I am appalled at all those that seem to be not interested in the truth,in both sides of the story.

You will see that I have stated that if his story actually is not true I hope the court system does it duty.

You will see that I have actually stated that I bet he gets charged and is found guilty.

Never in this thread have you seen me state that I was glad he was dead or that he deserved to die. That comment is uncalled for.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Never in this thread have you seen me state that I was glad he was dead or that he deserved to die. That comment is uncalled for.

This dead teen has no arrests and you keep stating he did this, he did that. He was caught with a screwdriver, I read somewhere he assaulted a bus driver, I read somewhere there might be could be gang ties, etc.

He wasn't arrested for any of these rumors and innuendo. Zimmerman ... that photo of him all over the place happens to be a mug shot. He was arrested for assault and a restraining order was issued in the domestic abuse case.

You say you don't believe what is on the national news on TV, but you ask for a link ... like a link is more credible than the video footage with timestamp shown on the national news?

I see a tragedy in a young life being ended. A boy who was merely talking on his cellphone, walking to Dad's girlfriend's house after buying Skittles and a tea. A boy that would have made it home safely, were it not for being stalked and confronted by Zimmerman because Zimmerman had a history of "suspecting" black guys of wrong doing in this neighborhood.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

This dead teen has no arrests and you keep stating he did this, he did that. He was caught with a screwdriver, I read somewhere he assaulted a bus driver, I read somewhere there might be could be gang ties, etc.

He wasn't arrested for any of these rumors and innuendo. Zimmerman ... that photo of him all over the place happens to be a mug shot. He was arrested for assault and a restraining order was issued in the domestic abuse case.

You say you don't believe what is on the national news on TV, but you ask for a link ... like a link is more credible than the video footage with timestamp shown on the national news?

I see a tragedy in a young life being ended. A boy who was merely talking on his cellphone, walking to Dad's girlfriend's house after buying Skittles and a tea. A boy that would have made it home safely, were it not for being stalked and confronted by Zimmerman because Zimmerman had a history of "suspecting" black guys of wrong doing in this neighborhood.

1: That comment was stilled uncalled for. but whatever.

2: Yes, I have reported what people want to overlook. It doesn't change the facts.Sorry.I am not making anything up.Its all there for you to see to if you were so inclined to seek the truth out on both sides.

3: I asked for a link for the story YOU want to use as evidence, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and was going to watch it to see if I could agree with you.

4: I never said Zimmerman was a good guy, I have said the state of Florida should never have given him a permit in the first place.

5:"I see a tragedy in a young life being ended. A boy who was merely talking on his cellphone, walking to Dad's girlfriend's house after buying Skittles and a tea. A boy that would have made it home safely, were it not for being stalked and confronted by Zimmerman because Zimmerman had a history of "suspecting" black guys of wrong doing in this neighborhood"

You see what you want to see and nothing more. And that is your choice and right. I have provided both sides of the story,you focus on one.

I will continue to provide both as the facts emerge.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

You see what you want to see and nothing more. And that is your choice and right. I have provided both sides of the story,you focus on one.

There's only one fact I need to see in this case. A boy was walking home after going to a convenience store to buy Skittles and tea. That boy was unarmed and not committing any crime. That boy was pursued and confronted and shot to death by Zimmerman.

That boy would have made it home safely to the people who love him were it not for being pursued and confronted and shot to death by Zimmerman.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

There's only one fact I need to see in this case. A boy was walking home after going to a convenience store to buy Skittles and tea. That boy was unarmed and not committing any crime. That boy was pursued and confronted and shot to death by Zimmerman.

That boy would have made it home safely to the people who love him were it not for being pursued and confronted and shot to death by Zimmerman.

That is what you want to believe. Which is what I said, you are believing what you want,and that is your right. Of course that is your speculation and conjecture because you don't know that.That is your assumption.

The fact is that neither you nor I nor anyone else here know what happened that night and never will. And try as you might, you can't change or dispute that fact.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Seems pretty simple to me. The fact this is being debated is crazy. Here we are the leading country in the world for imprisoning our own people, the country that has more people in prison now than Stalin did and we can't put this guy under arrest so a jury can judge him even though the lead detective or prosecutor, recommended it. Something is wrong with this story.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

There's only one fact I need to see in this case. A boy was walking home after going to a convenience store to buy Skittles and tea. That boy was unarmed and not committing any crime. That boy was pursued and confronted and shot to death by Zimmerman.

That boy would have made it home safely to the people who love him were it not for being pursued and confronted and shot to death by Zimmerman.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Seems pretty simple to me. The fact this is being debated is crazy. Here we are the leading country in the world for imprisoning our own people, the country that has more people in prison now than Stalin did and we can't put this guy under arrest so a jury can judge him even though the lead detective or prosecutor, recommended it. Something is wrong with this story.

Tim,

I was typing a post when you posted this.
You know I agree with you.

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KimW

14 years ago

I actually just read that questionaire. If the state had taken his answers and actually done any research he should have been disqualified from having a gun under several reason. If he answered yes to several of those questions then he probably shouldn't have gotten the permit,and if he answered no then all the state would have had to do was check the courts records and see that he was lying.
Either way he should not have been issued a permit/license, in my opinion.

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KimW

14 years ago

I agree having straight A's, playing football and getting a scholarship would not be any more relevant. My question to you was would you have the same objections to that being brought up.
My links did support what I was saying,which was there were rumours that he was in a gang.Please quote me where I said he was definitely a gang member.

"You deviated by saying things such as smoking pot and being suspened a couple of times had any relevancy in this case."

Again, you are taking it out of context Tim,something you rarely do.
I said past history is relevant. And it is, and you know that it is going to be brought up in court.
Even when you quoted me above it says exactly that,past history is relevant.
No mention of drug use or of school suspensions. Just that past history is relevant. And it WILL be brought up whether any of you like it or not.

I am no more bringing up unproven things than any of you are. What I am doing is presenting both sides of a situation as information comes out,while a good many of you have made up your mind without knowing ALL the facts and are measuring the hanging noose as we speak.

Tim, my stance is still the same that I messaged you on FB about. We just have to agree to disagree on this.

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Please quote me where I said he was definitely a gang member.

I didn't say you said he was definitely a gang member. I said you said there was plenty of evidence to support the theory that he was a gang member. Here's your quote: "In re to if Trayvon Martin was a gang member, I can't ptove it myself,but their is plenty of evidence to support that theory."

My point was that saying that is getting away from the facts. There actually is no evidence to support the theory he was a gang member from what I have read and seen. Two tattoos and fake gold teeth likely used for a joke photo don't make someone a gang member.
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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

This is a copy of part of Zimmerman's Sheriff's Academy application. It is only his version of his assault charge, but it may shed some light on the altercation, as we don't have a police report copy to refute it.

His restraining order was from an altercation with his girlfriend, where they apparently filed restraint against each other. According to statutes, he was not allowed to own a weapon with a restraining order. It does not mention a time limit for restriction to expire, or if the ban was lifted.

I don't offer this to support or deny either side, or to sway opinion - just putting it on the table for examination for anyone who may not have seen it.

(I'm waiting to see how the case is handled in a courtroom)

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KimW

14 years ago

I agree with that.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Daily Kos: Orlando Sentinel: Forensic voice identification expert says screaming is not George Zimmerman's

Say what????

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Daily Kos: Orlando Sentinel: Forensic voice identification expert says screaming is not George Zimmerman's

Say what????

U.S. News - Trayvon Martin case audio: Screams were not George Zimmerman's, 2 experts say
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Daily Kos: Orlando Sentinel: Forensic voice identification expert says screaming is not George Zimmerman's

Say what????

What??? What???

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Kay King

14 years ago

I think this has reached epic level of ridiculousness.

Dig a layer deeper and you'll find the expert has a production company - and promotes widely. This is great advertising.

But - everything I've read about analyzing voice prints indicates it needs to be from the original recording...and I don't think the police have released the original recording.

Just more fodder to keep the story in the news - because there are a lot of interests who want to keep this story at the top.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I think this has reached epic level of ridiculousness.

Dig a layer deeper and you'll find the expert has a production company - and promotes widely. This is great advertising.

But - everything I've read about analyzing voice prints indicates it needs to be from the original recording...and I don't think the police have released the original recording.

Just more fodder to keep the story in the news - because there are a lot of interests who want to keep this story at the top.

Party pooper....

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Kay King

14 years ago

Sorry - Dave...my bad

Just ignore me and go back to Tim's conjecture that the photo with tatts and gold grille must be a "joke photo". That's the problem with taking a side - you tend to find explanations for anything that doesn't support your viewpoint.

The gang reference came from some of Trayvon's friends early on who said he had just done an initiation.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Well, unfortunately Trayvon can't defend himself any longer against the smear campaign because well ... he's so dead and all.

I'm glad everyone here at least was such a perfect teenager. Personally, my mother lost a couple strands of hair raising my brother and I and I then lost more than a couple raising my children. At least we all survived it.

Some interesting things about fake news and the smear campaign

What Everyone Needs To Know About The Smear Campaign Against Trayvon Martin (1995-2012)

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well, unfortunately Trayvon can't defend himself any longer against the smear campaign because well ... he's so dead and all.

I'm glad everyone here at least was such a perfect teenager. Personally, my mother lost a couple strands of hair raising my brother and I and I then lost more than a couple raising my children. At least we all survived it.

Some interesting things about fake news and the smear campaign

What Everyone Needs To Know About The Smear Campaign Against Trayvon Martin (1995-2012)

As always we all can find websites and links and articles to bolster what we want.

What you call a smear campaign others call fact finding.
And of course you are very emotional about this,which is your right,but when emotions come into a discussion the facts can disappear.Not intentionally,but it still happens.

"I'm glad everyone here at least was such a perfect teenager. "

And I haven't seen a single poster claim the were angelic teenagers.
I was one of seven and I know my mother had a hard time. And she has lived to see a son die and a grandchild die. My niece was murdered. And she was only 2 years older than Trayvor. His isn't the only life that has been taken away senselessly.

And I have raised three daughters of my own and two stepchildren.

And I am sure,as a matter of fact I know, others here have also raised their own children.

But this isn't about how many "hairs" your mother lost raising you or how many my mother lost raising me.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

As always we all can find websites and links and articles to bolster what we want.

What you call a smear campaign others call fact finding.
And of course you are very emotional about this,which is your right,but when emotions come into a discussion the facts can disappear.Not intentionally,but it still happens.

If you read the article, you would see that much of the smear campaign wasn't based on facts.

1. Twitchy, a new website run by prominent conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, promoted a photo -- purportedly from Martin's Facebook page -- that shows Martin in saggy pants and flipping the bird. The photo, which spread quickly on conservative websites and Twitter, is intended to paint Martin as a thug. As Twitchy later acknowledged, it is not a photo of Trayvon Martin.

2. The Sanford Police selectively leaked irrelevant, negative information about Martin.

3. On Fox News, Geraldo said that Martin was dressed "like a wannabe gangster." Bill O'Reilly agreed with him. The sole evidence is that Martin was wearing a hoodie. Geraldo added that "everyone that ever stuck up a convenience store" was wearing a hoodie.

4. Without any evidence, prominent right-wing bloggers suggested that Martin was a drug dealer. Right-wing blogger Dan Riehl advances the theory, also advanced in a widely linked peice on a site called Wagist. There does not appear to be any evidence to support this claim whatsoever.

5. Without any evidence, a right-wing columnist alleged that Martin assaulted a bus driver. Unlike Zimmerman, Trayvon has no documented history of violence. This allegation continues to be advanced by a blogger on the Examiner even after the real reason was leaked to the police and confirmed by the family.

Yeah, I get emotional about dead unarmed teenagers, bigotry and racial profiling and stuff like that.

The President said it well. If I had a son he could look like Treyvon. Well, I'm white but 2 of my grandchildren are quite black. My daughter married a wonderful black man that I am proud to have as a son-in-law and one of my beautiful grandchildren could also look like Trayvon walking home from a store armed with Skittles and tea when he grows up.

In addition, there isn't anyone in my family who doesn't own a hoodie. Actually, we're a outdoor sportsy kind of family and hoodies are standard wear.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If you read the article, you would see that much of the smear campaign wasn't based on facts.

Yeah, I get emotional about dead unarmed teenagers, bigotry and racial profiling and stuff like that.

The President said it well. If I had a son he could look like Treyvon. Well, I'm white but 2 of my grandchildren are quite black. My daughter married a wonderful black man that I am proud to have as a son-in-law and one of my beautiful grandchildren could also look like Trayvon walking home from a store armed with Skittles and tea when he grows up.

In addition, there isn't anyone in my family who doesn't own a hoodie. Actually, we're a outdoor sportsy kind of family and hoodies are standard wear.

Getting emotional is fine, it just doesn't belong in a debate/discussion.
I am really surprised at the rest of the content of this post though,as now you are bringing up things that haven't been an issue at all.

Edit: I did read the article.I will never comment on a post with a link without actually visiting a link.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Getting emotional is fine, it just doesn't belong in a debate/discussion.
I am really surprised at the rest of the content of this post though,as now you are bringing up things that haven't been an issue at all.

Edit: I did read the article.I will never comment on a post with a link without actually visiting a link.

Personally, I don't care whether or not anyone feels that being impassioned is inappropriate in a discussion or debate. I'll discuss none the less and I'll be as passionate about the topic as I want.

I feel sorry for those who don't get heated up about the slaying of an unarmed teenager with the killer still free. I'm personally glad that there are enough people who are passionate about the injustice ... this would have been covered up and buried a long time ago if there weren't people who cared about dead teenagers.

We all heard the 911 tape ... both sides of the conversation with Zimmerman and the dispatcher. It's pretty clear that he was itching to pursue this teen even though he was told not to.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Personally, I don't care whether or not anyone feels that being impassioned is inappropriate in a discussion or debate. I'll discuss none the less and I'll be as passionate about the topic as I want.

I feel sorry for those who don't get heated up about the slaying of an unarmed teenager with the killer still free. I'm personally glad that there are enough people who are passionate about the injustice ... this would have been covered up and buried a long time ago if there weren't people who cared about dead teenagers.

We all heard the 911 tape ... both sides of the conversation with Zimmerman and the dispatcher. It's pretty clear that he was itching to pursue this teen even though he was told not to.

Twisting the words wont change anything. I think all of us are passionate or we wouldn't even be partaking in the discussion. And of course no one said you couldn't or shouldn't participate. And of course you can put your twist in every post but that won't change the facts,which has been stated many times by myself and others,that none of us,and that includes you and TL, know what happened. You can conjecture and so can I. And that doesn't make either of us right. The conversation with the dispatcher and with Zimmerman doesn't tell us what happened between Zimmerman and Martin,and that's the vital information.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Twisting the words wont change anything. I think all of us are passionate or we wouldn't even be partaking in the discussion. And of course no one said you couldn't or shouldn't participate. And of course you can put your twist in every post but that won't change the facts,which has been stated many times by myself and others,that none of us,and that includes you and TL, know what happened. You can conjecture and so can I. And that doesn't make either of us right. The conversation with the dispatcher and with Zimmerman doesn't tell us what happened between Zimmerman and Martin,and that's the vital information.

I cited everything I've said with links to the news reports. There's no twisting anything. The 911 tape is clear. The twisting has come in by those wishing to smear the victim to make his death seem somehow ok. Believe the news reports or not, I don't care. Believe what you hear on the 911 tapes or not. Makes no difference to me. I know what I heard on the 911 call and I've read a huge amount of the news reports. I've heard all of the "angles".

At the end of the day, the fact remains that Trayvon Martin is dead and he was doing nothing but walking home from a convenience store, armed with Skittles and tea, and the killer is still free.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I cited everything I've said with links to the news reports. There's no twisting anything. The 911 tape is clear. The twisting has come in by those wishing to smear the victim to make his death seem somehow ok. Believe the news reports or not, I don't care. Believe what you hear on the 911 tapes or not. Makes no difference to me. I know what I heard on the 911 call and I've read a huge amount of the news reports. I've heard all of the "angles".

So have I.

At the end of the day, the fact remains that Trayvon Martin is dead and he was doing nothing but walking home from a convenience store, armed with Skittles and tea, and the killer is still free.

Again, that is your perception and you are welcome to it.
On top of that I believe at the end of the day you are a good person with a good heart,and have good intentions.
If it turns out you are correct I hope in the end you get the results that you desire.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Yes. He called him a "f**king blank". By the way, people may say I have an agenda or have made up my mind so I hear/see what I want to hear/see, but to me it sounds more like he said "punks" than anything else. The fact that he was swearing at all at this kid who didn't do anything is enough for me to know he had anger problems which has been established by other actions in his past. He also said "They always get away" as if he already has decided Trayvon was guilty of something and not even considering that Trayvon may have been scared of this stranger following him. Yes, he was itching for a confrontation of some sort it seems and he got it.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

We all heard the 911 tape ... both sides of the conversation with Zimmerman and the dispatcher. It's pretty clear that he was itching to pursue this teen even though he was told not to.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If you read the article, you would see that much of the smear campaign wasn't based on facts.

Yeah, I get emotional about dead unarmed teenagers, bigotry and racial profiling and stuff like that.

The President said it well. If I had a son he could look like Treyvon. Well, I'm white but 2 of my grandchildren are quite black. My daughter married a wonderful black man that I am proud to have as a son-in-law and one of my beautiful grandchildren could also look like Trayvon walking home from a store armed with Skittles and tea when he grows up.

In addition, there isn't anyone in my family who doesn't own a hoodie. Actually, we're a outdoor sportsy kind of family and hoodies are standard wear.

Former Obama administration adviser Van Jones said he now feels like he has to dress his sons to the nines every day for their safety.
"I think I'm going to have to go broke dressing [my sons] in tuxedos every day so they can walk down the streets to buy a Snickers bar or Skittles," Jones said today during the "This Week" roundtable discussion.

Link

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Former Obama administration adviser Van Jones said he now feels like he has to dress his sons to the nines every day for their safety.
"I think I'm going to have to go broke dressing [my sons] in tuxedos every day so they can walk down the streets to buy a Snickers bar or Skittles," Jones said today during the "This Week" roundtable discussion.

Link

Jody,
That is BS coming from his mouth.This is exactly the type of hyperbole that keeps trying to make this something it isn't.

The article is interesting except for the Anne Coulter part,can't stand the guy.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Quote: Originally Posted by waterotter
Former Obama administration adviser Van Jones said he now feels like he has to dress his sons to the nines every day for their safety.
“I think I’m going to have to go broke dressing [my sons] in tuxedos every day so they can walk down the streets to buy a Snickers bar or Skittles,” Jones said today during the “This Week” roundtable discussion.

Originally Posted by KimW

Jody,
That is BS coming from his mouth.This is exactly the type of hyperbole that keeps trying to make this something it isn't. (as for the models on pg. 14 - they both look like idiots)

The article is interesting except for the Anne Coulter part,can't stand the guy.

If anyone in America takes a Sunday paper today - it just struck me as funny - look at the JC Penny (April Rainbow) flyer (page 15)* now, it just might be my media tooled subliminal side looking at that - but I can assure you it has been in vogue for much longer than a few weeks...if you have the ad, look at it, and tell me if my assessment is skewed.

Oh - and Ann Coulter is the other guy I would like to punch in the nose...:rolleyes:

*for those who don't have the flyer, there are two young men in 'suits'. The left one is, in my opinion, dresses like a slacker in a sportcoat (also, he is white, he needs a shave, and his hair is messy) he looks like a reporter for Rolling Stone, and looks like he is lost. The right one, is dressed smartly in a crisp blue suit, well tailored, has a confident smirk, and looks like he is going into a Board meeting for his new IPO. (he is black) Now...am I reading too much into this?

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Quote: Originally Posted by waterotter
Former Obama administration adviser Van Jones said he now feels like he has to dress his sons to the nines every day for their safety.
"I think I'm going to have to go broke dressing [my sons] in tuxedos every day so they can walk down the streets to buy a Snickers bar or Skittles," Jones said today during the "This Week" roundtable discussion.

If anyone in America takes a Sunday paper today - it just struck me as funny - look at the JC Penny (April Rainbow) flyer (page 15)* now, it just might be my media tooled subliminal side looking at that - but I can assure you it has been in vogue for much longer than a few weeks...if you have the ad, look at it, and tell me if my assessment is skewed.

Oh - and Ann Coulter is the other guy I would like to punch in the nose...:rolleyes:

*for those who don't have the flyer, there are two young men in 'suits'. The left one is, in my opinion, dresses like an idiot in a sportcoat (also, he is white, he needs a shave, and his hair is messy) he looks like a reporter for Rolling Stone, and looks like he is lost. The right one, is dressed smartly in a crisp blue suit, well tailored, has a confident smirk, and looks like he is going into a Board meeting for his new IPO. (he is black) Now...am I reading too much into this?

LOL 3M, where's the pic? More importantly, which one has the Skittles and Iced Tea?

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

LOL 3M, where's the pic? More importantly, which one has the Skittles and Iced Tea?

I couldn't access a pic - I could not find the flyer online...which is why I was unfortunately describing it. If someone has it, they could post. I'll have another quik search

No skittles and tea, just dressed to the nines...(for JC PENNY - I mean, this isn't Saville Row)

Found it - Here is the pic, but in the flyer, the two models are same size/full shot (solid light blue background). The left model is wearing canvas boat shoes with no laces...
http://calendar.jcpenney.com/april/#!book/thebook/14

these look like the 1st model's shoes...

I also just noticed the sidebar: "dinner with the in-laws"

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I can't access a pic - I could not find the flyer online...which is why I was unfortunately describing it. If someone has it, they could post. I'll have another quik search

No skittles and tea, just dressed to the nines...(for JC PENNY - I mean, this isn't Saville Row)

Here is the pic, but in the flyer, the two models are same size/full shot (solid light blue background). The left model is wearing canvas boat shoes with no laces...
jcp calendar

these look like the 1st model's shoes...

I wonder if they carry these in junior sizes - I'd almost bet the demand has skyrocketed.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

I wonder if they carry these in junior sizes - I'd almost bet the demand has skyrocketed.

Gee...I didn't think to set up an affiliate link! :rolleyes:

But tell me Jody, does my assessment seem too off the mark?
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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The delectable Ms. Coulter, the Truth Babe, would clean your clock. Best to keep that desire in fantasyland.

We can dream, can't we ? :rolleyes:
(one punch to the adam's apple, and it's all over... )
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Ummm, yes you are. ha

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

*for those who don't have the flyer, there are two young men in 'suits'. The left one is, in my opinion, dresses like an idiot in a sportcoat (also, he is white, he needs a shave, and his hair is messy) he looks like a reporter for Rolling Stone, and looks like he is lost. The right one, is dressed smartly in a crisp blue suit, well tailored, has a confident smirk, and looks like he is going into a Board meeting for his new IPO. (he is black) Now...am I reading too much into this?

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Ummm, yes you are. ha

OK - MAYBE I embellished a little*, (after all, look at all that mainstream media influence) but still... Model A = slacker / Model B = worker

(* after all, I don't need a lawsuit from Rolling Stone)
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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

*for those who don't have the flyer, there are two young men in 'suits'. The left one is, in my opinion, dresses like an idiot in a sportcoat (also, he is white, he needs a shave, and his hair is messy) he looks like a reporter for Rolling Stone, and looks like he is lost. The right one, is dressed smartly in a crisp blue suit, well tailored, has a confident smirk, and looks like he is going into a Board meeting for his new IPO. (he is black) Now...am I reading too much into this?

Yeah, it IS interesting! And they always seem to have the blacks living in houses, while only maybe 80% of whites do, at least for the past decade or two. And they generally seem to be happy, clean cut, and have both parents. AGAIN, fewer whites are.

There are plenty of problems to go around! NEITHER race has the corner on the home market. NEITHER race has the corner of fidelity.

If they REALLY wanted to help the black community through the media, they could have more films like "akeela and the bee" Akeelah and the Bee (2006) - IMDb

Here's the storyline:

Eleven year-old Akeelah Anderson's life is not easy: her father is dead, her mom ignores her, her brother runs with the local gangbangers. She's smart, but her environment threatens to strangle her aspirations. Responding to a threat by her school's principal, Akeelah participates in a spelling bee to avoid detention for her many absences. Much to her surprise and embarrassment, she wins. Her principal asks her to seek coaching from an English professor named Dr. Larabee for the more prestigious regional bee. As the possibility of making it all the way to the Scripps National Spelling Bee looms, Akeelah could provide her community with someone to rally around and be proud of -- but only if she can overcome her insecurities and her distracting home life. She also must get past Dr. Larabee's demons, and a field of more experienced and privileged fellow spellers.

I originally thought it was a true story, but it DOES have a lot of truth in it. And it is encouraging. It doesn't make akeela out to be any better than anyone else, but she fights to WIN and ends up kind of conspiring to share the spot with another so he could save face.

Making it look like all are better off than you, or that effort and luck don't come into things, doesn't help ANYTHING! And luck DOES tend to favor the prepared! There is too much effort to bring others down for "the appearance of equality". How about trying to help the others up in a fair way.

Steve

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Quote: Originally Posted by waterotter
Former Obama administration adviser Van Jones said he now feels like he has to dress his sons to the nines every day for their safety.
"I think I'm going to have to go broke dressing [my sons] in tuxedos every day so they can walk down the streets to buy a Snickers bar or Skittles," Jones said today during the "This Week" roundtable discussion.

If anyone in America takes a Sunday paper today - it just struck me as funny - look at the JC Penny (April Rainbow) flyer (page 15)* now, it just might be my media tooled subliminal side looking at that - but I can assure you it has been in vogue for much longer than a few weeks...if you have the ad, look at it, and tell me if my assessment is skewed.

Oh - and Ann Coulter is the other guy I would like to punch in the nose...:rolleyes:

*for those who don't have the flyer, there are two young men in 'suits'. The left one is, in my opinion, dresses like an idiot in a sportcoat (also, he is white, he needs a shave, and his hair is messy) he looks like a reporter for Rolling Stone, and looks like he is lost. The right one, is dressed smartly in a crisp blue suit, well tailored, has a confident smirk, and looks like he is going into a Board meeting for his new IPO. (he is black) Now...am I reading too much into this?

What a day for us not to have our paper delivdered.No BS.We were out most of the day so I didn't even check til you mentioned the ads,I went out to get it and no paper!!

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

What a day for us not to have our paper delivdered.No BS.We were out most of the day so I didn't even check til you mentioned the ads,I went out to get it and no paper!!

LOL! It's not as "graphic' in stark contrast as the print form...but here is a link, you'll see where I'm going with this - jcp calendar

Remember...some days, no news is good news...

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well, unfortunately Trayvon can't defend himself any longer against the smear campaign because well ... he's so dead and all.

I'm glad everyone here at least was such a perfect teenager. Personally, my mother lost a couple strands of hair raising my brother and I and I then lost more than a couple raising my children. At least we all survived it.

Some interesting things about fake news and the smear campaign

What Everyone Needs To Know About The Smear Campaign Against Trayvon Martin (1995-2012)

I hear ya!

I have heard many of these totally bogas smears repeated in this very thread.

Ultimately, whether Martin was a perfect person is irrelevant to whether Zimmerman’s conduct that night was justified.

It's a good report that ID's many of the smear merchants.

BTW...

I'm not surprised the report ID's Mr. Drudge as one of the smear merchants but the link to his smears does not work.

I'm sure I can locate his work online but why bother, I know what he's all about.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Zimmerman told police that he screamed for help during his confrontation with Martin, 17. He claims the shooting was self-defense....

And actual witness say they heard and saw Zimmerman screaming....who to believe?

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I hear ya!

I have heard many of these totally bogas smears repeated in this very thread.

Ultimately, whether Martin was a perfect person is irrelevant to whether Zimmerman's conduct that night was justified.

It's a good report that ID's many of the smear merchants.

BTW...

I'm not surprised the report ID's Mr. Drudge as one of the smear merchants but the link to his smears does not work.

I'm sure I can locate his work online but why bother, I know what he's all about.

All The Best!!

TL

Please give specific examples. I have not seen any person post bogus smears.Of course if it doesn't fit your agenda you want to call it a smear. :rolleyes:

I have seen a debate going on between some intelligent people here where we trade information back and forth,and some have made me change my opinion on some things. That's what people having discussions do,and they leave emotion out.

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Hey, you just may be onto something there.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Just ignore me...

Just a joke by the way.
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TimPhelan 14 years ago

The mother said she knew for sure that was her son's voice, so this doesn't surprise me at all. Unfortunately it won't be enough for some people as we have already seen here.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Daily Kos: Orlando Sentinel: Forensic voice identification expert says screaming is not George Zimmerman's

Say what????
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Since it just may be important...

...The Orlando Sentinel, asked the voice experts to use their "professional expertise" to try to identify the voice that was crying out for help just before the shooting.

If this thing goes to trial I'm sure the experts would be willing to testify under oath of their conclusions from the original tapes.

Yea sure - everyone has an agenda and I suspect since someone doesn't like the conclusion of the two voice experts, therefore its' now a new level of ridiculousness.

TL

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Kay King

14 years ago

Someone asked the voice experts to use their "professional expertise" to try to identify the voice that was crying out for help just before the shooting.

I only find info on one "expert" - who is a video promoter who "has software for voice recognition".

I'm sure there will be voice analysis if this goes to trial...but I would expect a true forensic expert to be the source.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I only find info on one "expert" - who is a video promoter who "has software for voice recognition".

I'm sure there will be voice analysis if this goes to trial...but I would expect a true forensic expert to be the source.

U.S. News - Trayvon Martin case audio: Screams were not George Zimmerman's, 2 experts say

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told the Sentinel that he used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman.

Zimmerman told police that he screamed for help during his confrontation with Martin, 17. He claims the shooting was self-defense....

The Sentinel said it contacted Owen, who it described as a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound. He told the newspaper he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams.

The Sentinel said that Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, used audio enhancement and human analysis and came to the same conclusion.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I only find info on one "expert" - who is a video promoter who "has software for voice recognition".

I'm sure there will be voice analysis if this goes to trial...but I would expect a true forensic expert to be the source.

This is one of the experts mentioned...

( if he ain't a true voice expert I wonder who is??? )

He is...

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for...

... the American Board of Recorded Evidence, ...

...used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman.

Another voice recognition expert contacted by the Orlando Sentinel, who utilized different techniques, ...

... came to the same conclusion.

Owen, is a court-qualified expert witness...

... and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound,

...is an authority on biometric voice analysis -- ...

...a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice.

It returned a 48 percent match.

Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman,"

Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, ...

...because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.

I say...

If they go to trial, it's gana be hard to find an expert with better credentials than this guy...

... who will actually contradict his testimony.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Since it just may be important...

...The Orlando Sentinel, asked the voice experts to use their "professional expertise" to try to identify the voice that was crying out for help just before the shooting.

If this thing goes to trial I'm sure the experts would be willing to testify under oath of their conclusions from the original tapes.

Yea sure - everyone has an agenda and I suspect since someone doesn't like the conclusion of the two voice experts, therefore its' now a new level of ridiculousness.

TL

And I am sure the defense will have experts that will "prove" it isn't. :rolleyes:

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

And I am sure the defense will have experts that will "prove" it isn't. :rolleyes:

This is one of the experts mentioned...

( if he ain't a true voice expert I wonder who is??? )

He is...

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for...

... the American Board of Recorded Evidence, ...

...used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman.

Another voice recognition expert contacted by the Orlando Sentinel, who utilized different techniques, ...

... came to the same conclusion.

Owen, is a court-qualified expert witness...

... and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound,

...is an authority on biometric voice analysis -- ...

...a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice.

It returned a 48 percent match.

Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman,"

Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, ...

...because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.

I say...

If they go to trial, it's gana be hard to find an expert with better credentials than this guy...

... who will actually contradict his testimony.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

This is one of the experts mentioned...

( if he ain't a true voice expert I wonder who is??? )

He is...

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for...

... the American Board of Recorded Evidence, ...

...used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman.

Another voice recognition expert contacted by the Orlando Sentinel, who utilized different techniques, ...

... came to the same conclusion.

Owen, is a court-qualified expert witness...

... and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound,

...is an authority on biometric voice analysis -- ...

...a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice.

It returned a 48 percent match.

Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman,"

Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, ...

...because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.

I say...

If they go to trial, it's gana be hard to find an expert with better credentials than this guy...

... who will actually contradict his testimony.

All The Best!!

TL

Thanks, but I already read that in Suzzane's(sp?) thread.

And if you would actually like to make a wager,I am willing to bet I can find a better qualified expert. I am not saying he would testify,but for the sake of argument in this thread I am willing to bet it is possible.

What I really want to know is why you had the need to make that post 3 times longer than it needed to be?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Thanks, but I already read that in Suzzane's(sp?) thread.

And if you would actually like to make a wager,I am willing to bet I can find a better qualified expert.

I am not saying he would testify,but for the sake of argument in this thread I am willing to bet it is possible.

What I really want to know is why you had the need to make that post 3 times longer than it needed to be?

Yea, find an voice expert with better cred willing to contradict the one the Orlando Sentinel found and willing to testify under oath.

I'm sure the defense will try.

I like to make my posts as easy to read as possible.

Many times I even space-out the post I'm replying to for clarification for the readers.

I submitted my post regarding the voice experts about the same time as Suzzane.

I forgot that I'm through with you in this thread.

LOL!

All The Best!!

TL

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Yawg Dawg

14 years ago

Well,,,,it's a sad tragedy that a young teen lost thier life period. I don't know if it was racially motivated or not but the fact is Zimmerman was told by 911 not to follow the teen,,,his part was done. And he took it upon himself to play like he was a police officer and he did take another person's life. He should be charged with murder, 2nd degree murder or manslaghter or something. Why don't the media ask if Zimmerman is a wanna be cop and was acting out on his fantasy? He did take the law into his own hands and ended up killing someone. I don't know if he's part white or whatever,,,,he just looks guilty to me.

I fully agree with MissTerraK,,,,,she hits the nail on the head.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Jody-

I question the fact that Zimmerman had a permit also. My guess would be his fathers "connections" and/or knowledge of loopholes in the law and his own law enforcement "connections". But that's just a guess...the fact is, in the US, who you know can go a long way when it comes down to the law.

I just wanted to assure you it's not as easy to get approved for a permit as it appears to you...

Criminals don't usually bother with the permit process....

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KimW

14 years ago

Actually I said: "I am not saying he would testify,".
Just that I could find one with better credentials.

"I like to make my posts as easy to read as possible."
You've made many posts wehre you didn't do that though.

"I forgot that I'm through with you in this thread."

Just when you think you are out.....they pull you back in! ( of course it's much more effective with the hand visuals) lol.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Let's just say...Zimmerman is arrested.

He is tried by a jury of his peers (Just like it's supposed to be)

Evidence is presented in a court of law by both sides (Just like it's supposed to be)

The jury finds Zimmerman....NOT GUILTY based on what THEY were presented. (Because they performed their civic duty....just like the system is supposed to work)

All this happens (the system worked) and he walks free.

What then?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Let's just say...Zimmerman is arrested.

He is tried by a jury of his peers (Just like it's supposed to be)

Evidence is presented in a court of law by both sides (Just like it's supposed to be)

The jury finds Zimmerman....NOT GUILTY based on what THEY were presented. (Because they performed their civic duty....just like the system is supposed to work)

All this happens (the system worked) and he walks free.

What then?

Good question!

Most people ( I'm betting at least 60-75% nationwide, across all groups ) will not like it and be disappointed - big time.

There will be an outrage and then people will forget. ( but not everyone/see below )

The rest will be split between Z's supporters - who will rejoice and the ambivalent.

If Mr. Z. goes free, He better be armed cause sooner or later someone's going to want to get what they see as justice for Trayvon.

All The Best!!

TL

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Good question!

Most people ( I'm betting at least 60-75% nationwide, across all groups ) will not like it and be disappointed - big time.

There will be an outrage and then people will forget. ( but not everyone/see below )

The rest will be split between Z's supporters - who will rejoice and the ambivalent.

If Mr. Z. goes free, He better be armed cause sooner or later someone's going to want to get what they see as justice for Trayvon.

All The Best!!

TL

Then THEY would be the criminal that needs to be put away...

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Then THEY would be the criminal that needs to be put away...

Agreed!

TL
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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Let's just say...Zimmerman is arrested.

He is tried by a jury of his peers (Just like it's supposed to be)

Evidence is presented in a court of law by both sides (Just like it's supposed to be)

The jury finds Zimmerman....NOT GUILTY based on what THEY were presented. (Because they performed their civic duty....just like the system is supposed to work)

All this happens (the system worked) and he walks free.

What then?

Then it's over. Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson were acquitted for crimes they most likely committed and it's over.

I just want to see at least an attempt at justice.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Then it's over. Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson were acquitted for crimes they most likely committed and it's over.

I just want to see at least an attempt at justice.

So then, you just really want the same thing I want?
Because that is all I have said through the whole thread.Actually, I have even said what the minimum I would like to see Zimmerman charged with.
Both to some here privately and since then publicly in this thread.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Let's just say...Zimmerman is arrested.

He is tried by a jury of his peers (Just like it's supposed to be)

Evidence is presented in a court of law by both sides (Just like it's supposed to be)

The jury finds Zimmerman....NOT GUILTY based on what THEY were presented. (Because they performed their civic duty....just like the system is supposed to work)

All this happens (the system worked) and he walks free.

What then?

The civil suits begin. Read my previous post.

The sad thing is, Zimmerman didn't follow any the laws or guidelines that he should have. He disregarded the very laws he should have abided by and took the law into his own hands. There's a chance he may be rewarded for that.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

The civil suits begin. Read my previous post.

The sad thing is, Zimmerman didn't follow any the laws or guidelines that he should have. He disregarded the very laws he should have abided by and took the law into his own hands. There's a chance he may be rewarded for that.

I forgot about the civil suits.

You can't put someone in jail with a civil suit but you can attach their assets if they are found guilty...

... and in most states the burden of proof is a lot lower then beyond a reasonable doubt.

TL

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I forgot about the civil suits.

You can't put someone in jail with a civil suit but you can attach their assets if they are found guilty...

... and in most states the burden of proof is a lot lower then beyond a reasonable doubt.

TL

TL, did you watch that video? The Homeowners' Association may very well end up paying Zimmerman's legal fees if this goes to trial.....WTF???

If I owned a home in that gated community, I'd be one of the first people in line to file a civil suit against Zimmerman as my property value is likely to devalue in record time.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

TL, did you watch that video? The Homeowners' Association may very well end up paying Zimmerman's legal fees if this goes to trial.....WTF???

If I owned a home in that gated community, I'd be one of the first people in line to file a civil suit against Zimmerman as my property value is likely to devalue in record time.

Yea I saw it and the HOA may have to do it for self defense reasons since Z is listed as their go to guy for security etc.

I forgot about the civil suit angle and all the ramifications.

All The Best!!

TL

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

TL, did you watch that video? The Homeowners' Association may very well end up paying Zimmerman's legal fees if this goes to trial.....WTF???

If I owned a home in that gated community, I'd be one of the first people in line to file a civil suit against Zimmerman as my property value is likely to devalue in record time.

I tried to watch the video - but there wasn't a video link in the story that came up... even thought it says (01:31) :confused:

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waterotter 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I tried to watch the video - but there wasn't a video link in the story that came up... even thought it says (01:31) :confused:

3M, try clicking on the link again. You will see a picture of Trayvon - this is where you have to wait maybe a minute or two (?) and the video will load. It's slow to load, but worth waiting for IMO.
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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I tried to watch the video - but there wasn't a video link in the story that came up... even thought it says (01:31) :confused:

3M, Like she said it is slow to load,and even then they did a commercial before it played the video she is referencing.
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

TL, did you watch that video? The Homeowners' Association may very well end up paying Zimmerman's legal fees if this goes to trial.....WTF???

If I owned a home in that gated community, I'd be one of the first people in line to file a civil suit against Zimmerman as my property value is likely to devalue in record time.

I am betting they can't because they,the homeowners association have put in writing that he was the go to guy. And since everyone in the complex is forced to belong to the homeowner's association,more than likely,unless they make an objection to zimmerman being the go to guy and had it noted publicly somewhere, had in fact agreed to that situation.
Sad but true.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

The civil suits begin. Read my previous post.

The sad thing is, Zimmerman didn't follow any the laws or guidelines that he should have. He disregarded the very laws he should have abided by and took the law into his own hands. There's a chance he may be rewarded for that.

I don't think he will be rewarded. The rest of his life whether as a free man or in prison is more than likely going to suck. ( I can't use the terms I would really like to use).

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I don't think he will be rewarded. The rest of his life whether as a free man or in prison is more than likely going to suck. ( I can't use the terms I would really like to use).

Kim, that HOA should be investigated. What the hell are they doing naming Zimmerman as the go-to guy. Did they not do their due diligence in performing a background check and requiring some sort of documentation indicating he was qualified for this position, before naming him in their HOA documents as their representative for said position???

Zimmerman will be afforded the best defense possible at the cost of the HOA, should this go to trial. That's more than enough of a reward for me to swallow.

Furthermore, if Z goes to trial, I as a home owner would be seeking legal counsel in regards to the HOA - hell, at this point, I'd have them on retainer. I foresee a class-action suit against them. Why should I or any home-owner have to pay for Zimmerman's defense??? If I'm paying HOA fees, I want to know I'm paying for someone who is registered and qualified for this position. That's not too much to ask, is it?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Kim, that HOA should be investigated. What the hell are they doing naming Zimmerman as the go-to guy. Did they not do their due diligence in performing a background check and requiring some sort of documentation indicating he was qualified for this position, before naming him in their HOA documents as their representative for said position???

Zimmerman will be afforded the best defense possible at the cost of the HOA, should this go to trial. That's more than enough of a reward for me to swallow.

Furthermore, if Z goes to trial, I as a home owner would be seeking legal counsel in regards to the HOA - hell, at this point, I'd have them on retainer. I foresee a class-action suit against them. Why should I or any home-owner have to pay for Zimmerman's defense??? If I'm paying HOA fees, I want to know I'm paying for someone who is registered and qualified for this position. That's not too much to ask, is it?

Jody,
HOA are basically run by a group of political wannabees,and the HOA is the only way they can be a big fish in a little pond.
While you would think that they would investigate the person they name as a go to guy,I doubt if it even crossed their minds and of course I doubt if there is really any legal statute that says they are required to.

As far as Zimmerman's defense,the clip you sent us to has a lawyer saying the HOA MAY end up being responsible for his legal bills,not that they definitely are. I can see a real conflict there.The HOA,especially if they believe he should be found guilty,would hire "adequate" defense lawyer,but I can almost guarantee that Daddy Z will want the best his money can buy,and he can't force the HOA to go that route. And of course I also think the HOA will be,if they are not already, doing their best to distance themselves from zimmerman now.

As far as your last paragraph, I already addressed that in a different post,but in a nutshell, unless you voiced an objection to his appointment, you agreed to it. The majority of people that are members of HOA basically pay their dues and that's the extent of their involvement. Only the political wannabees that I mentioned before really do active participation in HOAs.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Here's a question for Tim & Suzzane...

Maybe you can answer this cause I can't get a handle on it...

Why on Earth have professional people on the right...

...set out to destroy Trayvon's reputation and sought to destroy an obvious case of...

... an armed, overzealous neighborhood watch person who followed and then killed a unarmed teenager and has gone uncharged??

Why has this turned out to be a cause celeb among people on the right???

I don't get it.

What's in it for them???

Please help me understand their motives if you can.

Thanks,

TL

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

That's a good question also, along with Dave's. Joe Scarborough, a Republican, has the same question on his mind:

"On Friday, he excoriated some conservative websites for defending Zimmerman and questioning Martin's innocence. He said that he found their behavior "disgusting."

"Why is it that some on the right are actually taking this up as a cause?" Scarborough asked. "As National Review said almost immediately after it happened, this has nothing to do with gun rights, this has nothing to do with the Second Amendment, this has nothing to do with stand your ground laws, this has nothing to do with the NRA. This has everything to do with a guy that's trying to play security cop, who is unhinged, who chased down and shot a 17-year-old kid armed with Skittles and iced tea.'"

Scarborough warned that conservative sites should follow the National Review and "not take this up as a cause." He took issue with their portrayal of Martin in particular.

He said, "some racist websites, but also sadly some fairly mainstream websites are actually going into Trayvon Martin's social media pages, be it Twitter or MySpace, and they're trying to find ominous looking pictures while skipping over pictures of him holding up a birthday cake smiling, him fishing with his dad, him standing outside proudly of his home dressed in a tux ready to go to prom."

"This is beneath contempt," Scarborough railed. "These people on the far right are being fools to try to make this a political issue. "Some out there are marginalizing themselves, making fools of themselves."

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Here's a question for Tim & Suzzane...

Maybe you can answer this cause I can't get a handle on it...

Why on Earth have some people set out to destroy Trayvon's reputation and sought to destroy an obvious case of...

... an armed, overzealous neighborhood watch person who followed and then killed a unarmed teenager and has gone uncharged??

Why has this turned out to be a cause celeb among people on the right???

I don't get it.

Please help me understand their motives if you can.

Thanks,

TL

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

That's a good question also, along with Dave's. Joe Scarborough, a Republican, has the same question on his mind:

Tim,
I watch him as often as I can...Morning Joe. One of the few shows I actually trust.
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waterotter

14 years ago

Just to add to all the confusion and search for the truth:

If Zimmerman is not held accountable for his actions, who if anyone is he accountable to?

Of all the reports I've read, Zimmerman is a self-appointed Captain of the Neighborhood Watch - yet according to officials, there is NO registered Neighborhood Watch Program - neither George Zimmerman nor the Sanford Police Department had registered a neighborhood watch program with the organization.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Should George Zimmerman have called 911 or non-emergency police number (videos) - National US Headlines | Examiner.com Should George Zimmerman have called 911 or non-emergency police number (videos) - National US Headlines | Examiner.com

The Homeowners' Association according to this video has left themselves wide open to civil action - as they have listed Zimmermans name as the go-to guy. This video takes awhile to load, but it's worthwhile waiting for, and I'm certain it's going to piss of a lot of people when they become aware of it's content.

Rest assured, Zimmerman's father will be advising him accordingly.

Atty.: Civil lawsuit likely in Trayvon Martin shooting (1:31) - The Washington Post

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Just to add to all the confusion and search for the truth:

If Zimmerman is not held accountable for his actions, who if anyone is he accountable to?

Of all the reports I've read, Zimmerman is a self-appointed Captain of the Neighborhood Watch - yet according to officials, there is NO registered Neighborhood Watch Program - neither George Zimmerman nor the Sanford Police Department had registered a neighborhood watch program with the organization.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Should George Zimmerman have called 911 or non-emergency police number (videos) - National US Headlines | Examiner.com Should George Zimmerman have called 911 or non-emergency police number (videos) - National US Headlines | Examiner.com

The Homeowners' Association according to this video has left themselves wide open to civil action - as they have listed Zimmermans name as the go-to guy. This video takes awhile to load, but it's worthwhile waiting for, and I'm certain it's going to piss of a lot of people when they become aware of it's content.

Rest assured, Zimmerman's father will be advising him accordingly.

Atty.: Civil lawsuit likely in Trayvon Martin shooting (1:31) - The Washington Post

Jody,
There was never any question in my mind that a civil lawsuit was already in the works.
And in this situation since the Association both did not have an official neighborhood watch program and they named Zimmerman as the go to guy. They will very likely lose it.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

If only every day was April Fool`s Day...

...that way people would always be initially skeptical of believing what they see, hear, and read as truth.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Here's our good friends at NBC altering Zimmerman's 911 call to make it look like racial profiling.

NBC to do ‘internal investigation’ on Zimmerman segment - Erik Wemple - The Washington Post

If that string of clips was presented to any audience as anything Other than to present a biased jounalistic viewpoint from any network - it is reprehensible.

I do not often agree with Sean Hannity on most points, and he is one the few media people whom, if I ever met, face to face...would punch in the nose. I find myself confused.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

If that string of clips was presented to any audience as anything Other than to present a biased jounalistic viewpoint from any network - it is reprehensible.

I do not often agree with Sean Hannity on most points, and he is one the few media people whom, if I ever met, face to face...would punch in the nose. I find myself confused.

If true it is reprehensible!

TL

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

If that string of clips was presented to any audience as anything Other than to present a biased jounalistic viewpoint from any network - it is reprehensible.

I do not often agree with Sean Hannity on most points, and he is one the few media people whom, if I ever met, face to face...would punch in the nose. I find myself confused.

I actually met Hannity a couple times waaaay back when he was a radio DJ down here in my part of the country.

I think he could take you....

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

I actually met Hannity a couple times waaaay back when he was a radio DJ down here in my part of the country.

I think he could take you....

Fighti' Irish, eh? - It's on then! Marquis of Queensbury rules!
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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Hannity is a moron --an embarrassment to conservatives. It is plain, even though Hannity says it, that NBC edited the 911 tapes to put Zimmerman in a bad light.

I hope heads roll.

Why? Because he displays the same passion for HIS views and beliefs as those with another viewpoint? :confused:

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Why? Because he displays the same passion for HIS views and beliefs as those with another viewpoint? :confused:

Hey guys...just because I want to punch Hannity in the nose, no reason for you guys to fight over it...:rolleyes:
It's just my way of saying 'hello'...
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Here's our good friends at NBC altering Zimmerman's 911 call to make it look like racial profiling.

NBC to do ‘internal investigation’ on Zimmerman segment - Erik Wemple - The Washington Post

Very interesting as looks like an overzealous NBC seems to have been caught...

( no one said that folks on the left had never engaged in some hype in this situation and you can drone on and on about it - if you like )

...but it still does not change the essential facts of the situation.

Whether Mr. Z. volunteered Trayvon as being black or not... - according to the 9-1-1 recording ...

Mr. Z. still had absolutely no business pursuing Mr. Martin...

... according to Neighborhood watch protocol and the general rules of engagement of that Stand Your Ground law - period.

He was overzealous and now someone is dead because of his over-zealousness.

Nothing that happens can change those essential facts...

... even if you continue to insist Z. has the right to walk anywhere he wants - as you retorted earlier in this thread.

Good day!

TL

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

It is simply a fact that people can walk where they want and speak to whom they want.

I'm pretty damned sure it isn't grounds for arrest.

Yea, but...

For the last time, not after calling 9-1-1, following the subject of the 9-1-1 call,

... and then somehow killing him.

We'll see if his community agrees with you or not.

All The Best!!

TL

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

What, 911 calls negate your rights to move freely and talk?

In circumstances like this, yes.
If you call 911 to report a crime they will instruct you as to the best action to take until police arrive.
It's not a crime as far as I know to not follow their advice.
But as it has been shown in this case it is pretty stupid.
Don't forget 911 operators and the police who the operators are in contact with are trained in this kind of stuff. When a professional tells you not to do something, it usually makes sense to listen.
It's like if you go to the beach and the lifegaurd tells you not to go past 20 yards out because of a rip tide.
Now you still have the right to go into the ocean and swim where you please.
But you're an idiot if you swim into the rip tide just because you have that right.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

In circumstances like this, yes.
If you call 911 to report a crime they will instruct you as to the best action to take until police arrive.
It's not a crime as far as I know to not follow their advice.
But as it has been shown in this case it is pretty stupid.
Don't forget 911 operators and the police who the operators are in contact with are trained in this kind of stuff. When a professional tells you not to do something, it usually makes sense to listen.
It's like if you go to the beach and the lifegaurd tells you not to go past 20 yards out because of a rip tide.
Now you still have the right to go into the ocean and swim where you please.
But you're an idiot if you swim into the rip tide just because you have that right.

Thom, let it go man.

I've tried at least 3 times to reason with Mr. C. on the 9-1-1 advice issue and I've noticed you've tried at least twice.

Unless he's pulling our legs...

All indications are that Mr. Caudill subscribes to the...

... "Ignore 9-1-1 Advice" impulse...

...and we both know how that can lead to unnecessary trouble.

If something like the Trayvon Martin situation happens in the greater Chicago area whom do you think will pop into my mind??

All The Best!!

TL

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Thom, let it go man.

I've tried at least 3 times to reason with Mr. C. on the 9-1-1 advice issue and I've noticed you've tried at least twice.

Unless he's pulling our legs...

All indications are that Mr. Caudill subscribes to the...

... "Ignore 9-1-1 Advice"...

...impulse and we both know how that can lead to unnecessary trouble.

If something like the Trayvon Martin situation happens in the greater Chicago area whom do you think will pop into my mind??

All The Best!!

TL

I gave it a third try when you where typing that

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

So the 911 argument holds no weight at all.

Only because you don't want it to.
Apparently logic and common sense don't work with you on this Ken.
Besides even if his neighborhood watch group wasn't registered with the sheriffs department they are suppose to follow the instructions of 911 and the police. So there the 911 argument holds a lot of weight.
Just because something isn't a law, doesn't mean it can't be used as evidence of intent in a court.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

Only because you don't want it to.
Apparently logic and common sense don't work with you on this Ken.
Besides even if his neighborhood watch group wasn't registered with the sheriffs department they are suppose to follow the instructions of 911 and the police. So there the 911 argument holds a lot of weight.
Just because something isn't a law, doesn't mean it can't be used as evidence of intent in a court.

Thom,
It appears he wasn't even a legitimate neighborhood watch person. From what someone posted (I think it was Jody but noot sure) it seems he was just someone that wanted to do it and his HOA named him the go to guy for that type of problems. If that is the case it certainly takes away a LOT of his credibility in my eyes.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Thom,
It appears he wasn't even a legitimate neighborhood watch person. From what someone posted (I think it was Jody but noot sure) it seems he was just someone that wanted to do it and his HOA named him the go to guy for that type of problems. If that is the case it certainly takes away a LOT of his credibility in my eyes.

Yes Kim, I posted this info. I've heard and read that from day one, Zimmerman was not "legit" - he was self-acclaimed. I did my research. Anyone who has read anything about this will see the author of the article stating the fact the fact that Zimmerman is a "self proclaimed Captain".

You don't need to believe what I just posted - do your own search - you can verify the info for yourself.

Zimmerman was volunteering as the Captain. I've posted the links, so will not repeat what has already been stated. If someone wants the links, go back to my earlier post where I give the links.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Yes Kim, I posted this info. I've heard and read that from day one, Zimmerman was not "legit" - he was self-acclaimed. I did my research. Anyone who has read anything about this will see the author of the article stating the fact the fact that Zimmerman is a "self proclaimed Captain".

You don't need to believe what I just posted - do your own search - you can verify the info for yourself.

Zimmerman was volunteering as the Captain. I've posted the links, so will not repeat what has already been stated. If someone wants the links, go back to my earlier post where I give the links.

Jody,
I wasn't saying I didn't believe you, I was giving you credit for steering me to information I didn't know.

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Yes Kim, I posted this info. I've heard and read that from day one, Zimmerman was not "legit" - he was self-acclaimed. I did my research. Anyone who has read anything about this will see the author of the article stating the fact the fact that Zimmerman is a "self proclaimed Captain".

You don't need to believe what I just posted - do your own search - you can verify the info for yourself.

Zimmerman was volunteering as the Captain. I've posted the links, so will not repeat what has already been stated. If someone wants the links, go back to my earlier post where I give the links.

All the more reason he should be charge and go to trial.
When you are "self-appointed" and carry a gun and go looking for trouble you are basically a vigilante.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If you actually understood logic, you would realize it would take Evel Knievel to jump to that conclusion. Apparently, you assume that belonging to a neighborhood watch group negates your rights as citizen.

If you want to form a neighborhood watch group, you don't have to have permission from anyone. All you have to do is act within the law.

The 911 argument holds no weight at all. Certainly, it is not grounds to arrest anyone. There is no way anyone can ascertain Zimmerman's intentions. It simply cannot be done unless you are telepathic.

That is actually the crux of this brouhaha --people are acting on their own preconceived notions and mistaking them for facts or reliable indicators of intent.

What we know is that those two people met and had an altercation. We don't know what Zimmerman's intentions were. We know that a young man died.

That's all we know.

I beg to differ here:

If you want to form a neighborhood watch group, you don't have to have permission from anyone. All you have to do is act within the law.

I agree 100% with this statement, however, Zimmerman chose to ignore 911's directives telling him not to follow...

So, Zimmerman called authorities, yet didn't follow proper protocol as instructed.

Zimmerman had on his body a concealed weapon of which he was not entitled to carry according to guidelines of which (links) have been posted.

Zimmerman, had a proper background check been done, would have shown he was not qualified for the said position he chose to pursue...........

The list is a long one, of which I can a provide links and verification to....

I'm beginning to get the impression Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, but couldn't pass the test. Google that one - it will confirm any suspicions you may have.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

h

I'm beginning to get the impression Zimmerman was a wannabe cop, but couldn't pass the test. Google that one - it will confirm any suspicions you may have.

It is known that he applied and actually got accepted to at least take the training,what isn't known is why he didn't actually end up becoming a cop.

Maybe he lied on his application? Maybe he wasn't physically fit enough?
I saw a video today that said he was only 5'6", I don't know if that is true or not,but that would be pretty damn short for a cop. I don't think I have seen any that short where I am.Most seem to be around 6' or taller. Of course,that wouldn't be a "lehal" reason to not let him in so they would have had to come up with some other reason.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

It is known that he applied and actually got accepted to at least take the training,what isn't known is why he didn't actually end up becoming a cop.

Maybe he lied on his application? Maybe he wasn't physically fit enough?
I saw a video today that said he was only 5'6", I don't know if that is true or not,but that would be pretty damn short for a cop. I don't think I have seen any that short where I am.Most seem to be around 6' or taller. Of course,that wouldn't be a "lehal" reason to not let him in so they would have had to come up with some other reason.

But WOMEN wanted "equal rights". Since they ARE women, a lot of them tend to be shorter WHICH, in THEIR minds, was UNFAIR! Because they didn't qualify, the police lowered the requirements!!!!!!! As I recall, the OLD standard WAS over 6'! The LAtimes implies 5'8". That STILL excludes a LOT of women, and a fair percentage of men today. NOW, I DOUBT it is over 5'6"! The LA times states that since 1980 the LAPD required officers to be at least 5' tall! Lapd Height Requirement | In the New LAPD, Height Doesn't Make Right - Los Angeles Times That, 5', is low enough to let most men, AND most women in!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If you actually understood logic, you would realize it would take Evel Knievel to jump to that conclusion. Apparently, you assume that belonging to a neighborhood watch group negates your rights as citizen.

If you want to form a neighborhood watch group, you don't have to have permission from anyone. All you have to do is act within the law.

The 911 argument holds no weight at all. Certainly, it is not grounds to arrest anyone. There is no way anyone can ascertain Zimmerman's intentions. It simply cannot be done unless you are telepathic.

That is actually the crux of this brouhaha --people are acting on their own preconceived notions and mistaking them for facts or reliable indicators of intent.

What we know is that those two people met and had an altercation. We don't know what Zimmerman's intentions were. We know that a young man died.

That's all we know.

We also know Strike Force Z decided to pursue the victim after being advised not to and when the victim had done nothing wrong at all.

But that does not seem to matter to you...

... so therefore I guess you'd probably also support...

Tinker...

Taylor....

Soldier....

( please scroll down for more... )

Taxi Driver.

Taxi Driver - You Talkin' me? - YouTube

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

We also know Strike Force Z decided to pursue the victim after being advised not to and when the victim had done nothing wrong at all.

But that does not seem to matter to you...
... so therefore I guess you'd probably also support...

We also know that not only was he told by dispatch to leave the kid alone, any real neighborhood watch person rather than a self-appointed thug with a gun, does not carry a gun and does not engage with a suspicious person. They are trained not to carry and gun or engage. They are "ears and eyes" only and report to police the suspicious activity so that the police take care of it.

The lead investigator wanted to arrest this thug. Didn't think his story added up. I'll tell you one thing. If Trayvon Martin were a white boy, walking through a gated neighborhood with a bag of candy and a tea, and Zimmerman were a black dude who stalked him, confronted him and shot him down, his a$$ would be in jail so fast it wouldn't be funny.

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KimW

14 years ago

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I love how you all want to make it racial.. Great way to keep the country divide. Have you donated to the Black Panthers fund yet?As more facts come out it sounds like zimmerman was mentally unstable and would have shot anyone of any color.

Have you donated to the White Supremists yet? Your remark was completely uncalled for. I don't condone violence and vigilante justice.

It's obvious from his history that he had a thing with black people. Out of 46 pestering calls to the cops while on "duty", they were all black guys. Apparently, white kids walking through the neighborhood weren't suspicious to him. Lucky for them I guess.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Have you donated to the White Supremists yet? Your remark was completely uncalled for. I don't condone violence and vigilante justice.

It's obvious from his history that he had a thing with black people. Out of 46 pestering calls to the cops while on "duty", they were all black guys. Apparently, white kids walking through the neighborhood weren't suspicious to him. Lucky for them I guess.

I'm at the hospital on my iPod so I can't quote properly so im just going to ask for proof that z. Never called in any reports for any people except black.

By the way you have made numerous comments to me that we're uncalled.

I have continually presented unbiased opinions and facts about both sides and have a few times admitted when I was wrong or mistaken.

But your self righteous indignation is not going to stop me from wanting the truth to come out, no matter what the end result is.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I'm at the hospital on my iPod so I can't quote properly so im just going to ask for proof that z. Never called in any reports for any people except black.

By the way you have made numerous comments to me that we're uncalled.

I have continually presented unbiased opinions and facts about both sides and have a few times admitted when I was wrong or mistaken.

But your self righteous indignation is not going to stop me from wanting the truth to come out, no matter what the end result is.

Licensed to carry a firearm and a student of criminal justice, Zimmerman went door-to-door asking residents to be on the lookout, specifically referring to young black men who appeared to be outsiders, and warned that some were caught lurking, neighbors said.

But starting in 2011, Zimmerman's calls increasingly focused on what he considered "suspicious" characters walking around the neighborhood--almost all of whom were young black males.

On April 22, 2011, Zimmerman called to report a black male about "7-9" years old, four feet tall, with a "skinny build" and short black hair. There is no indication in the police report of the reason for Zimmerman's suspicion of the boy.

On Aug. 3 of last year, Zimmerman reported a black male who he believed was "involved in recent" burglaries in the neighborhood.

ZIMMERMAN PARANOID ABOUT BLACK MALES - YouTube

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

ZIMMERMAN PARANOID ABOUT BLACK MALES - YouTube

Not one of those were proof. And one stated MOST were black,not all.
As stated before, we all can find links and stories to validate our opinion, but that doesn't make it factual or true.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Not one of those were proof. And one stated MOST were black,not all.
As stated before, we all can find links and stories to validate our opinion, but that doesn't make it factual or true.

Oh ... that's right. You don't watch news or believe news stories. Never mind.

Yeah, he did make numerous "other" nuisance calls like "there's trash in the street", my neighbor left his garage door open, someone is having a party ... suspicious ... lots of cars coming in and out of their driveway (all serious matters that should have police involvement ... right), but since 2011, his focus was increasingly on black males, including instructing his neighbors to call him when they spotted black males in the neighborhood that don't live there.

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KimW

14 years ago

And if it doesn' fit your agenda it isn' valid.
By the way, your snarky sarcasm is not having your desired effect, and I still think you are basically a good person

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

And if it doesn' fit your agenda it isn' valid.

Excuse me Kim but you're the one invalidating every news story as "not the truth". I do read and watch news ... all of it.

Agenda. I have the same agenda as anyone who thinks that the murder of a teenager doing nothing but walking home is a crime and that Zimmerman should have been arrested long ago. I won't apologize for my stance that killing an unarmed teenager is wrong.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Excuse me Kim but you're the one invalidating every news story as "not the truth". I do read and watch news ... all of it.

Agenda. I have the same agenda as anyone who thinks that the murder of a teenager doing nothing but walking home is a crime and that Zimmerman should have been arrested long ago. I won't apologize for my stance that killing an unarmed teenager is wrong.

You can not possibly know that for a FACT, unless you were there at that moment.

NOBODY here OR in the media can.

As far as Zimmerman being arrested? He was arrested (handcuffs, police station, hint hint.) The police had a charge of manslaughter prepared, but it was shot down at the state level. The lead homicide investigator in Sanford didn't believe his story and WANTED to charge him...but they had no choice but to let him go when the word came down from the state.

The Sanford police have a blackout on info coming out of there and I would assume the investigator STILL wants him charged, but at the moment his hands are tied.

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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

You can not possibly know that for a FACT, unless you were there at that moment.

NOBODY here OR in the media can.

The facts are recorded on the 911 call. Zimmerman pursued an unarmed teenager and that kid ended up dead. The only thing Zimmerman could come up with for suspicious behavior is that he was walking through the neighborhood, looking around and wearing a hoodie, none of which are crimes.

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

As far as Zimmerman being arrested? He was arrested (handcuffs, police station, hint hint.)

Being taken in for questioning is not being arrested. I am confident (fairly) that he will be arrested eventually for the senseless killing of a teen.
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Kay King

14 years ago

Suzanne - I don't understand the need to "prove" something about this case.

46 calls in a year - quite a few...almost 4 a month.

BUT - what the reporter carefully doesn't say HOW many were about blacks, HOW many about white, HOW many about Hispanics. He just say "most seem to be...." so he's covered himself. He led viewers to believe a certain way without providing proof.

It is a racially mixed area - according to initial reports about 45% black - so what number would constitute "most"?

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Suzanne - I don't understand the need to "prove" something about this case.

46 calls in a year - quite a few...almost 4 a month.

BUT - what the reporter carefully doesn't say HOW many were about blacks, HOW many about white, HOW many about Hispanics. He just say "most seem to be...." so he's covered himself. He led viewers to believe a certain way without providing proof.

It is a racially mixed area - according to initial reports about 45% black - so what number would constitute "most"?

Kay ... newspapers ... many of them ... reported the following excerpt. If Zimmerman was not focused on race, why would he go door to door to his neighbors and ask them to be on the lookout for young black men that were outsiders? Why not ask them to be on the lookout for anyone of any color who appeared to be outsiders or suspicious? Why target young black men? Isn't that racial profiling?

Licensed to carry a firearm and a student of criminal justice, Zimmerman went door-to-door asking residents to be on the lookout, specifically referring to young black men who appeared to be outsiders

Read more here: Shooter of Trayvon Martin a habitual caller to cops - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Yes, it is. I hadn't heard that he had gone around telling people to look out for blacks. It pretty much makes it clear he was racial profiling now. I thought he was doing that before hearing this though. I mean, calling the police about a suspicious 7 to 9 year old black kid?!!! It's really sad.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Why target young black men? Isn't that racial profiling?
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Kay King

14 years ago

I just found the Zimmerman police call record
46 Calls - The Daily Beast

20 calls this year - and if the log is accurate, six mention color. That isn't "most" and probably the reason the YouTube video didn't give a number.

I looked for the log because I thought maybe there was a clear bias there - but it doesn't seem to be supported.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Police Report...

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2...7-29132322.pdf

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Police Report...

http://media.trb.com/media/acrobat/2...7-29132322.pdf

Interesting...

Unless they filled in the report days after the fact, it looks like they knew who Trayvon was - on the night of the killing - per the report.

So, why was his body tagged as John Doe and lay in the morgue for 3 days according to some reports?

Was it a mis-communication between the police and the M.E. office??

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

TL

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Interesting...

Unless they filled in the report days after the fact, it looks like they knew who Trayvon was - on the night of the killing - per the report.

So, why was his body tagged as John Doe and lay in the morgue for 3 days according to some reports?

Was it a mis-communication between the police and the M.E. office??

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

TL

Yeah ... they knew who he was within 1/2 hr but put John Doe on his tag?
Who can believe anything from that police dept. They protested the release of the 911 tape, protested the release of the video of Zimmerman at the police station and "corrected" a key witnesses testimony:

The list of possible police missteps uncovered by ABC News is long: The department allegedly ignored some witnesses while failing to follow up with others. One officer "corrected" the testimony of an eye witness who said she heard "the boy," Martin, crying out; the officer allegedly told the witness that it was Zimmerman who was screaming for help.

Most egregious, say experts, was the failure of the department to follow up with Martin's girlfriend, who was on the phone with him in the seconds before Zimmerman confronted Martin and shot him dead. Police had Martin's cellphone call logs but never reached out to the girl, who said that Zimmerman followed, pursued and accosted Martin. Police Chief in Trayvon Martin Case Resigns 'Temporarily' - ABC News

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah ... they knew who he was within 1/2 hr but put John Doe on his tag?
Who can believe anything from that police dept. They protested the release of the 911 tape, protested the release of the video of Zimmerman at the police station and "corrected" a key witnesses testimony:

I heard something about witness being "corrected" but don't know much about it.

But you're right, who can trust that police department?

Fortunately the state and the feds are on the case.

TL

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Interesting...

Unless they filled in the report days after the fact, it looks like they knew who Trayvon was - on the night of the killing - per the report.

So, why was his body tagged as John Doe and lay in the morgue for 3 days according to some reports?

Was it a mis-communication between the police and the M.E. office??

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

TL

I was curious about that too. Also, Zimmerman was taken into custody, but he is the only one without a weight. There is wt. listed for all other witnesses.

and it is certainly wide speculation on my part, but ofc. Ayala writes that 'was' the extent of my involvement, not 'is'...as if there is none left pending for him, or his report is after the fact.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I just found the Zimmerman police call record
46 Calls - The Daily Beast

20 calls this year - and if the log is accurate, six mention color. That isn't "most" and probably the reason the YouTube video didn't give a number.

I looked for the log because I thought maybe there was a clear bias there - but it doesn't seem to be supported.

The report was that increasingly in the past year, as in 12 months, his reports were of black males. 7 of the 12 calls in the past 12 month period prior to killing Trayvon were reports of suspicious black men.

The rest of the reports by Zimmerman to the police were serious crimes not involving black men like garage doors open, potholes, neighbors having a party, landlord wanting to collect his rent from him, trash in roadway, at the clubhouse & pool areas having a party, playing basketball in the pool area and jumping the fence, Ex roommate is letting people that [Zimmerman] don't like in the" house, White male ex-roommate last seen wearing a red Florida State University shirt, a call regarding a "late model red" Toyota pickup "driving around the neighborhood and apt complex for the past 5 min, reports a stray dog, Drunk pedestrian walking in the road, places a call reporting a male in a green Ford pickup.

This guy is a nut case. You also didn't address the question of racial profiling in regards to the report by his neighbors that he went door to door telling them to be on the lookout specifically for young black males in the neighborhood who don't appear to belong there.

46. Feb. 26, 2012 - 7:20 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Repeats prior report (this is the same black male report as below)

45. Feb. 26, 2012 (night of Martin shooting) - 7:11 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Black male "late teens lsw dark gray hoodie jeans or sweatpants walking around area" ... "subj now running towards back entrance of complex"

44. Feb. 2, 2012 - 8:29 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: "BM lsw: black leather jacket, black hat, printed PJ pants, he keeps going going to this" location

43. Jan. 29, 2012 - 5:38 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Children "running and playing in the street"

42. Dec. 10, 2011 - 5:29 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: "At the club house" ... "Male subject [arrived on scene] that thought he was employed by" Zimmerman ... "Subj is expected to get paid for serving food." ... Zimmerman "said that he didn't wish him to serve at the [event]" ... Zimmerman "hired someone else, subj sounded upset and wants to get paid"

41. Oct. 1, 2011 - 12:53 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Two black male suspects "20-30 YOA in [white] Chevy poss Impala at the gate of the community." Zimmerman "does not recognize subjs or veh and is concerned due to recent" burglaries in the area

40. Sept. 23, 2011 - 11:08 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Neighbor/Suspicious activity
Report: Zimmerman reports "open garage door" ... Describes "neighborhood watch mtg last night with Sgt Herx who [advised] to report anything [suspicious]" ... Zimmerman "is part of neighborhood watch" and is concerned because of recent burglaries in the area

39. Aug. 6, 2011 - 10:20 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Two black males, one wearing a black tank top and black shorts, the second wearing a black t-shirt and jeans ... "Subjs are in their teens"

38. Aug. 3, 2011 - 6:45 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Black male last seen wearing a white tank top and black shorts ... Zimmerman "believes subject is involved in recent" burglaries in the neighborhood

37. May 27, 2011 - 9:18 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Alarm
Report: Zimmerman "has a self responding alarm that just notified him of" an alarm at this location

36. April 22, 2011 - 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male "apprx 7-9" years old, four feet tall "skinny build short blk hair" last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

35. March 18, 2011 - 9:26 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Animals
Report: Zimmerman requested an officer meet him regarding a pit bull in his garage

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Was he profiling? Maybe. But maybe he (and others in the neighborhood had their reasons...).

Learn a little about issues in the neighborhood...

Zimmerman
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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If you actually understood logic, you would realize it would take Evel Knievel to jump to that conclusion. Apparently, you assume that belonging to a neighborhood watch group negates your rights as citizen.

If you want to form a neighborhood watch group, you don't have to have permission from anyone. All you have to do is act within the law.

The 911 argument holds no weight at all. Certainly, it is not grounds to arrest anyone. There is no way anyone can ascertain Zimmerman's intentions. It simply cannot be done unless you are telepathic.

That is actually the crux of this brouhaha --people are acting on their own preconceived notions and mistaking them for facts or reliable indicators of intent.

What we know is that those two people met and had an altercation. We don't know what Zimmerman's intentions were. We know that a young man died.

That's all we know.

No Ken it's you who seems to have an issue with logic, and common sense.
As for my statement that he was acting like a vigilante, well he was.
Again he called 911, they told him to not follow the kid.
Instead he decided to take matters into his own hands and follow the kid.
He then shot the kid.
So instead of letting the police handle the matter, after he called them he decided to take the law into his own hands and that is a vigilante.

Bottom line is if he followed the advice of 911 we wouldn't be talking about this because Trevor would still be alive. Common sense and logic tell you that.

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

What, 911 calls negate your rights to move freely and talk?

You're right, 9-1-1 is not the law but...

... ignoring that 9-1-1 "advice"...

... along with breaking the spirit of that Stand your ground law can be construed as intent for an unnecessary confrontation.

The Vigilante: ( I bet Z. has seen the movie )

Playing a warped version of Paul Kersey can and has gotten one person dead and Mr. Z.'s keister in trouble.

At least Paul Kersey had the decency to find a nice park bench or lonely subway car and...

... wait for his victims to f______ with him first...

... instead of stalking someone who was not threatening him whatsoever.

Even Bernard Geotz of NYC, waited for someone to f_______ with him before he took action.

But not Strike Force Z.

I guess you believe he was taking the war to the criminals or something like that right???

Once again...

I sincerely hope justice will be served and I hope you feel the same.

TL

Charles Bronson vs. Muggers - YouTube
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- ThomM 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator
  
  Even Bernard Geotz of NYC, waited for someone to f_______ with him before he took action.
  
  TL
  
  And even Bernard Goetz was arrested and charged with murder among other things. After his court process he was convicted on illegal firearm charges.
  That's why I don't understand why Z hasn't been charged.
  If he's innocent or guilty at least by charging him it will all be determined in a court of law like it should.
  
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Here's our good friends at NBC altering Zimmerman's 911 call to make it look like racial profiling.

NBC to do ‘internal investigation’ on Zimmerman segment - Erik Wemple - The Washington Post

Good link Ken.
And a great example why I don't trust/believe most of the news sources.

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nickdamodda

14 years ago

LOL

One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him -- and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Paramedics gave him first aid but he said he did not need to go to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by nickdamodda

LOL

lol ... more recent photo of zimmerman
It's not a crime for a teenager to pose flipping the bird and acting out, by the way.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

lol ... more recent photo of zimmerman
It's not a crime for a teenager to pose flipping the bird and acting out, by the way.

Not a crime! It is ALSO not a crime to rap about killing cops! ******BUT****** it certainly does NOT help your case. What is your point?

As for the zimmerman pic? WHAT was that for? WHY was it done? WHY is the one with dog tags altered? SORRY, that is NOT the photo of a person! It looks like the ALTERED photo of a person with zimmermans head, IN THE WRONG SCALE and WITH THE WRONG ALIGNMENT, attached!

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Not a crime! It is ALSO not a crime to rap about killing cops! ******BUT****** it certainly does NOT help your case. What is your point?

As for the zimmerman pic? WHAT was that for? WHY was it done? WHY is the one with dog tags altered? SORRY, that is NOT the photo of a person! It looks like the ALTERED photo of a person with zimmermans head, IN THE WRONG SCALE and WITH THE WRONG ALIGNMENT, attached!

Steve

Yeah ... so who said Trayvon was rapping about killing cops? Sorry but music is not a crime either.

Killing unarmed teenagers will most likely prove to be a crime in this case. The pic was satire ... to show that two can play that game ... digging up facebook and Twitter pics of a dead victim to attempt to show that he probably deserved to die or something because he is flipping the bird ... whooops, oh that's right. That's not a pic of Trayvon Martin. Some conservative blogger posted that and then admitted it was not a photo of Trayvon Martin.

I don't give a crap what antics Trayvon pulled as a teenager. On the day he was murdered by a self-appointed Neighborhood Watch thug, he was an unarmed teenager walking home from a store.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Not a crime! It is ALSO not a crime to rap about killing cops! ******BUT****** it certainly does NOT help your case. What is your point?

As for the zimmerman pic? WHAT was that for? WHY was it done? WHY is the one with dog tags altered? SORRY, that is NOT the photo of a person! It looks like the ALTERED photo of a person with zimmermans head, IN THE WRONG SCALE and WITH THE WRONG ALIGNMENT, attached!

Steve

Steve,
Because it is easier to use obviously photoshopped pictures.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Steve,
Because it is easier to use obviously photoshopped pictures.

Uhhh .... it was in response to the fake Trayvon photo he posted of NOT Trayvon flipping the bird.

Prominent conservative websites published fake photos of Martin. Twitchy, a new website run by prominent conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, promoted a photo -- purportedly from Martin's Facebook page -- that shows Martin in saggy pants and flipping the bird. The photo, which spread quickly on conservative websites and Twitter, is intended to paint Martin as a thug. As Twitchy later acknowledged, it is not a photo of Trayvon Martin. [Examiner]

Yesterday a right-leaning website called Twitchy ran a picture of George Zimmerman in a suit and tie next to what they claimed was a picture of Trayvon Martin with no shirt and sagging pants. Twitchy is owned and operated by Michelle Malkin, a conservative pundit who is a frequent guest on Fox News. The picture of Zimmerman was real, but the picture of Martin was not. After Eric Boehlert, senior fellow at the left-leaning organization Media Matters, tweeted a screenshot of the article Twitchy posted the following correction:

"Correction, 8:56 pm ET March 25, 2012: We made a mistake. The photo on the right is not of the Trayvon Martin who was shot by Zimmerman. We apologize to our readers and to the Martin family."

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Well, congratulations on posting a photo that Michelle Malkin has already admitted isn't Trayvon and for which she apologized for appearing on her website. I'm referring to the one of the kid flipping the bird, which in itself is harmless fun for kids these days. I think the kids got the idea from that gangster Johnny Cash:

Plus, the photo with the gold teeth is laughable. I'm pretty sure it is a joke photo, kind of like kids wearing vampire teeth. They are not permanent.

Plus, if Trayvon was on top of Z when he shot him, ummm, where the hell is the blood? There's not a trace of blood on Z from the shooting or from his supposedly broken nose. At some point people have to use some common sense here.

Originally Posted by nickdamodda

LOL

One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him -- and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Paramedics gave him first aid but he said he did not need to go to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.

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nickdamodda

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Well, congratulations on posting a photo that Michelle Malkin has already admitted isn't Trayvon and for which she apologized for appearing on her website. I'm referring to the one of the kid flipping the bird, which in itself is harmless fun for kids these days. I think the kids got the idea from that gangster Johnny Cash:

Plus, the photo with the gold teeth is laughable. I'm pretty sure it is a joke photo, kind of like kids wearing vampire teeth. They are not permanent.

Plus, if Trayvon was on top of Z when he shot him, ummm, where the hell is the blood? There's not a trace of blood on Z from the shooting or from his supposedly broken nose. At some point people have to use some common sense here.

Why dont you ask the witness? This whole thread is pointless.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Well, congratulations on posting a photo that Michelle Malkin has already admitted isn't Trayvon and for which she apologized for appearing on her website. I'm referring to the one of the kid flipping the bird, which in itself is harmless fun for kids these days. I think the kids got the idea from that gangster Johnny Cash:

Plus, the photo with the gold teeth is laughable. I'm pretty sure it is a joke photo, kind of like kids wearing vampire teeth. They are not permanent.

Plus, if Trayvon was on top of Z when he shot him, ummm, where the hell is the blood? There's not a trace of blood on Z from the shooting or from his supposedly broken nose. At some point people have to use some common sense here.

Exactly Tim!

You shoot someone at close range, you're going to have blood spatter on you, but...

To shoot someone who is on top you, you're going to have a shirt literally soaked in blood and the bloody nose, pffft!

It would just mix into the already blood soaked shirt.

What the heck is the matter with the investigators who were trained in this?

Heck, not only is it common sense, but anyone who watches Forensic|Files knows this!!

Hellooo?

Terra

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thunderbird 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

[/B]

<snip>

What the heck is the matter with the investigators who were trained in this?<snip>

Trained in what? Covering up a crime?
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Kay King 14 years ago

Maybe the investigators didn't watch enough TV? j/k

What we don't know is if there was a raincoat or overcoat that was removed at the scene. It was raining that night.

Martin's Father was asked to identify the voice on the tape (police asked him) and he said it was not his son. That was according the local paper a while back. It is reported an eyewitness stated it was Zimmerman shouting. We don't know anything more than what we read and hear on TV - and no one else does either at this point.

It was a Prosecutor (not police) that said there was not enough evidence to make a charge of manslaughter. Now the Martin parents are calling for the Prosecutor to be charged and arrested....that's not going to happen.

I think Martin's parents are getting some bad advice from people who may not have the best motives. Too many talk shows and a story that changes and is becoming more militant by the day.

What we don't want to believe is that a good kid and a nice guy could end up like this. We want a villain - and maybe there isn't one. Just bad judgment and a bad outcome.
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waterotter

14 years ago

Sure wish Dominick Dunne was with still with us - he'd gather the facts and lay out the scenario based on proven facts without bias nor outer influence.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Sure wish Dominick Dunne was with still with us - he'd gather the facts and lay out the scenario based on proven facts without bias nor outer influence.

While I'm still thinking about Rolling Stone - I'd like to have seen Hunter Thompson take a whack at it...not that he is a great fact checker (like Dunne) but he is a good read whenever the media circus comes to town...

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

While I'm still thinking about Rolling Stone - I'd like to have seen Hunter Thompson take a whack at it...not that he is a great fact checker (like Dunne) but he is a good read whenever the media circus comes to town...

What works for me

Gee, that mentality is hard to beat. :p

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KimW

14 years ago

Ha! What was so ironic was living during the times Thompson was writing his stuff!

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waterotter 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Ha! What was so ironic was living during the times Thompson was writing his stuff!

Talk about "seeing the future", makes me wonder just what did he see?!?
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KimW

14 years ago

Suzzanne,
Yes I know the bird/finger pic is a fake,but it is NOT photoshopped,which is the point I made.

Edit and correction, the bird picture is not Martin is what I meant, I don't believe the pic itself is faked.

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Yawg Dawg

14 years ago

Well,,,the fact is an unarmed teenager lost his life for absolutely no reason. Just because of some wanna be cop loser that teenager lost out on the joy of finding the love of his life and getting married, and the joy of seeing his children born and raising them along with alot of other joys that some of you on this thread has enjoyed.

This case is living proof that this country should go back to public hangings! Every state should have the death penalty and they should carry it out with public hangings like in the court house square in every town for people to attend and watch justice served. If everyone saw that if you kill somone then you will be hung to death then there would probably be alot less murders. And that punk Zimmerman might have thought twice before stalking and gunning down an unarmed teenager.

For what he did Zimmerman does not deserve to walk the face of the earth! The only thing he deserves is to answer a multiple choice question. How do you want to be executed? a) firing squad b) public hanging c) lethal injection d) beaten to death

I say don't even give Zimmerman a trial. Just execute him and consider it to be an improvement to the human race.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Yawg Dawg

Well,,,the fact is an unarmed teenager lost his life for absolutely no reason. Just because of some wanna be cop loser that teenager lost out on the joy of finding the love of his life and getting married, and the joy of seeing his children born and raising them along with alot of other joys that some of you on this thread has enjoyed.

This case is living proof that this country should go back to public hangings! Every state should have the death penalty and they should carry it out with public hangings like in the court house square in every town for people to attend and watch justice served. If everyone saw that if you kill somone then you will be hung to death then there would probably be alot less murders. And that punk Zimmerman might have thought twice before stalking and gunning down an unarmed teenager.

For what he did Zimmerman does not deserve to walk the face of the earth! The only thing he deserves is to answer a multiple choice question. How do you want to be executed? a) firing squad b) public hanging c) lethal injection d) beaten to death

I say don't even give Zimmerman a trial. Just execute him and consider it to be an improvement to the human race.

You should read your post again in the morning....after an aspirin and a good strong cup of coffee.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Yawg Dawg

Well,,,the fact is an unarmed teenager lost his life for absolutely no reason. Just because of some wanna be cop loser that teenager lost out on the joy of finding the love of his life and getting married, and the joy of seeing his children born and raising them along with alot of other joys that some of you on this thread has enjoyed.

This case is living proof that this country should go back to public hangings! Every state should have the death penalty and they should carry it out with public hangings like in the court house square in every town for people to attend and watch justice served. If everyone saw that if you kill somone then you will be hung to death then there would probably be alot less murders. And that punk Zimmerman might have thought twice before stalking and gunning down an unarmed teenager.

For what he did Zimmerman does not deserve to walk the face of the earth! The only thing he deserves is to answer a multiple choice question. How do you want to be executed? a) firing squad b) public hanging c) lethal injection d) beaten to death

I say don't even give Zimmerman a trial. Just execute him and consider it to be an improvement to the human race.

And this right here is what's wrong with America now.
Judge,jury and executioner.

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Yawg Dawg

14 years ago

Hey Kay King,,,,,,so what if Trayvon had been suspended from school 3 times or had been in any other kind of trouble. For Christ Sakes he was a teenager. Didn't you do anything wrong or make any mistakes when you were a teen? You act like since he had been in trouble that it makes it ok that he was stalked and killed like he deserved it. That stuff has nothing to do with the case. The fact is some loser wanna be cop stalked and murdered an unarmed teenager after he was told by 911 not to follow Trayvon. Trayvon's charachter or past actions has nothing to do with or has any bearing on the case.

The fact is Zimmerman killed an innocent unarmed teenager and should be given the death penalty and executed. Zimmerman should have just taken an ass beating and gone home and licked his wounds and moved on with his life. He had no right or reason to pull out a gun and murder an unarmed teen.

If that would have been your child that was murdered you would probably have a different attitude and opinion wouldn't you?

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Yawg Dawg

Hey Kay King,,,,,,so what if Trayvon had been suspended from school 3 times or had been in any other kind of trouble. For Christ Sakes he was a teenager. Didn't you do anything wrong or make any mistakes when you were a teen? You act like since he had been in trouble that it makes it ok that he was stalked and killed like he deserved it. That stuff has nothing to do with the case. The fact is some loser wanna be cop stalked and murdered an unarmed teenager after he was told by 911 not to follow Trayvon. Trayvon's charachter or past actions has nothing to do with or has any bearing on the case.

The fact is Zimmerman killed an innocent unarmed teenager and should be given the death penalty and executed. Zimmerman should have just taken an ass beating and gone home and licked his wounds and moved on with his life. He had no right or reason to pull out a gun and murder an unarmed teen.

If that would have been your child that was murdered you would probably have a different attitude and opinion wouldn't you?

SO WHAT if he killed, or bashed someones head on concrete! He was a teenager! Haven't YOU ever done anything wrong?

Steve

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Yawg Dawg

Hey Kay King,,,,,,so what if Trayvon had been suspended from school 3 times or had been in any other kind of trouble. For Christ Sakes he was a teenager. Didn't you do anything wrong or make any mistakes when you were a teen? You act like since he had been in trouble that it makes it ok that he was stalked and killed like he deserved it. That stuff has nothing to do with the case. The fact is some loser wanna be cop stalked and murdered an unarmed teenager after he was told by 911 not to follow Trayvon. Trayvon's charachter or past actions has nothing to do with or has any bearing on the case.

The fact is Zimmerman killed an innocent unarmed teenager and should be given the death penalty and executed. Zimmerman should have just taken an ass beating and gone home and licked his wounds and moved on with his life. He had no right or reason to pull out a gun and murder an unarmed teen.

If that would have been your child that was murdered you would probably have a different attitude and opinion wouldn't you?

Again, Judge ,Jury,and executioner,. You seem to forget the justice system outr country is based on. That is one of the things that differentiates us from barbarians.

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seasoned

14 years ago

BTW kim,

Various areas, like the military and cops, DO have requirements regarding fitness, and physical characteristics. They ARE legal. In college, I met a woman who was REALLY trying to get good enough to pass the fire person test. THEY lowered requirements ALSO, but they were still tough. If she didn't pass, they wouldn't let her in. Many men couldn't pass them either. As I recall, SHE wasn't tall either.

Zimmerman COULD have been below the fitness level, or weighed too much, and gotten in on a probationary acceptance. The military does the SAME thing. If you don't pass by a certain date, you are kicked out. For police, and some other areas, you ALSO have to pass a regular test. If you fail, you are kicked out. He MIGHT have failed that.

Still, going through that doesn't prove that he wanted that as a career, etc...

Steve

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

BTW kim,

Various areas, like the military and cops, DO have requirements regarding fitness, and physical characteristics. They ARE legal. In college, I met a woman who was REALLY trying to get good enough to pass the fire person test. THEY lowered requirements ALSO, but they were still tough. If she didn't pass, they wouldn't let her in. Many men couldn't pass them either. As I recall, SHE wasn't tall either.

Zimmerman COULD have been below the fitness level, or weighed too much, and gotten in on a probationary acceptance. The military does the SAME thing. If you don't pass by a certain date, you are kicked out. For police, and some other areas, you ALSO have to pass a regular test. If you fail, you are kicked out. He MIGHT have failed that.

Still, going through that doesn't prove that he wanted that as a career, etc...

Steve

Steve,
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I don't know,I was just saying that Jody was correct in her thought that Z was a wannabe cop.

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seasoned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Steve,
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I don't know,I was just saying that Jody was correct in her thought that Z was a wannabe cop.

I haven't actually taken a position here, other than to say zimmerman is getting railroaded. Is he guilty? MAYBE! But NOBODY here knows that for a fact!

Steve
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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Geraldo Rivera Trayvon Martin Parents Interview: Fox News Host Asks Tracy Martin, Sybrina Fulton To 'Accept My Condolences'

Martin said. "Let me just add one thing with the wearing of the hoodie. I don’t think America knows that, in fact, at the time of the incident when he initially made the call, it was raining. So Trayvon had every right to have on his hood. He was protecting himself from the rain. So if being suspicious, walking in the rain with your hoodie on is a crime, then I guess the world is doing something wrong.”

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

I guess they need another side show for their circus...

Vigilante Madness in Pearland...Not Just in Sanford, Not Just Trayvon Martin! - CNN iReport

The layout of this story from CNN just shouts sensationalist to me...is it just me?

Trayvon Martin case exposes worst in media:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/...210020839.html

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Former Republican Congressman and now morning talk show host on why the far right has taken up Z's weak cause...

Quote:

"On Friday, he excoriated some conservative websites for defending Zimmerman and questioning Martin's innocence. He said that he found their behavior "disgusting."

"Why is it that some on the right are actually taking this up as a cause?"

Scarborough asked.

"As National Review said almost immediately after it happened, this has nothing to do with gun rights, this has nothing to do with the Second Amendment, this has nothing to do with stand your ground laws, this has nothing to do with the NRA.

This has everything to do with...

... a guy that's trying to play security cop, who is unhinged, who chased down and shot a 17-year-old kid armed with Skittles and iced tea.'"

Scarborough warned that conservative sites should follow the National Review and "not take this up as a cause."

He took issue with their portrayal of Martin in particular.

He said, "some racist websites, but also sadly some fairly mainstream websites are actually going into Trayvon Martin’s social media pages, be it Twitter or MySpace, and they're trying to find ominous looking pictures while skipping over pictures of him holding up a birthday cake smiling, him fishing with his dad, him standing outside proudly of his home dressed in a tux ready to go to prom."

"This is beneath contempt," Scarborough railed.

"These people on the far right are being fools to try to make this a political issue.

"Some out there are marginalizing themselves, making fools of themselves.”

Interesting!

TL

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Here's some good reading on Zimmerman's background. Sounds fairly accurate from what I've been able to gather so far...

Don't know anything about the author though...(Google him yourself, I need coffee...)

George Zimmerman described as a 'caring person,' had run-ins with the law | McClatchy
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KimW

14 years ago

You are right, myself and others are not sheep that believe every piece of crap the media feeds up. I go for facts, and just because the news reports something it doesn't make it a fact, as you are so ready to point out if something reported is proven false in the favor of what you want to believe. If the item is faints what you want to believe its either not true or some bodies hidden agenda.
Sorry, the whole facts are what interests me, not just the ones that fit what someone wants me to believe.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

You are right, myself and others are not sheep that believe every piece of crap the media feeds up. I go for facts, and just because the news reports something it doesn't make it a fact, as you are so ready to point out if something reported is proven false in the favor of what you want to believe. If the item is faints what you want to believe its either not true or some bodies hidden agenda.
Sorry, the whole facts are what interests me, not just the ones that fit what someone wants me to believe.

So if you don't believe news and you don't believe the 911 tape, where exactly do you pull your facts from?

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

So if you don't believe news and you don't believe the 911 tape, where exactly do you pull your facts from?

Actually I have answered that for you several times in this thread
already. A.d you keep citing the 911 call but the call doesn.t tell the whole stoy.
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waterotter

14 years ago

The report also says Trayvon was lying face down. I thought anyone shot in the chest would fall backwards.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

The report also says Trayvon was lying face down. I thought anyone shot in the chest would fall backwards.

Only in the movies.

Actually, a 9mm doesn't pack THAT MUCH punch. He could have been shot...remained standing for a few moments, grabbed his chest, then collapsed.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Yeah, but according to Z, he was having his ass kicked by this kid, slamming his head against the cement. How does he not have blood on him and how does the kid end up on his stomach. I would like to know where the bullet entered the body. We don't know yet. He could have shot him in the back for all we know.

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Only in the movies.

Actually, a 9mm doesn't pack THAT MUCH punch. He could have been shot...remained standing for a few moments, grabbed his chest, then collapsed.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yeah, but according to Z, he was having his ass kicked by this kid, slamming his head against the cement. How does he not have blood on him and how does the kid end up on his stomach. I would like to know where the bullet entered the body. We don't know yet. He could have shot him in the back for all we know.

Earlier newspaper (Florida) reports I read said he was shot in the chest...and police confirmed that newspaper articles were "consistent" with evidence they had at the time..

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yeah, but according to Z, he was having his ass kicked by this kid, slamming his head against the cement. How does he not have blood on him and how does the kid end up on his stomach. I would like to know where the bullet entered the body. We don't know yet. He could have shot him in the back for all we know.

Tim, if this does go to trial - it's not going to be easy proving this as they didn't confiscate Zimmerman's clothing.

Wanna bet that clothing no longer exists?

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

We all saw what he was wearing though when he walked into the police station about 35 minutes after killing Trayvon. No blood to be seen anywhere on him.

Originally Posted by waterotter

Tim, if this does go to trial - it's not going to be easy proving this as they didn't confiscate Zimmerman's clothing.

Wanna bet that clothing no longer exists?

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

We all saw what he was wearing though when he walked into the police station about 35 minutes after killing Trayvon. No blood to be seen anywhere on him.

Maybe why the lead investigator didn't believe his story...
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

We all saw what he was wearing though when he walked into the police station about 35 minutes after killing Trayvon. No blood to be seen anywhere on him.

Kay mentioned that the killer may have had a raincoat on.

I quote...

"What we don't know is if there was a raincoat or overcoat that was removed at the scene. It was raining that night."

TL

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

He had a jacket on already. The raincoat wouldn't make sense since they are in Florida. By that I mean, if you live in Florida and are driving around in a car, will you be wearing a jacket and a raincoat? Not likely.

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Kay mentioned that the killer may have had a raincoat on.

I quote...

"What we don't know is if there was a raincoat or overcoat that was removed at the scene. It was raining that night."

TL

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

He had a jacket on already. The raincoat wouldn't make sense since they are in Florida. By that I mean, if you live in Florida and are driving around in a car, will you be wearing a jacket and a raincoat? Not likely.

Yea Tim,

I don't understand why anyone but his lawyer, family and friends are rushing to defend this guy????

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Yea Tim,

I don't understand why anyone but his lawyer, family and friends are rushing to defend this guy????

Nobodies defending him. We're defending his right to have all the FACTS presented...

INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty....remember?

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Nobodies defending him. We're defending his right to have all the FACTS presented...

INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty....remember?

Honestly Dave, I think Nixon got it right in his impeachment speech in his absent backward way. Ideally, we would all sincerely like to believe we are innocent until proven guilty in all cases. But we all know it is really 'guilty until proven innocent', it is just a fact of law. Laws are designed for control. When confronted, in most cases, we accuse first, excuse second. I often wonder who wrote that warm fuzzy line that we wrap ourselves in...we love the thought of it. (imo)

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Honestly Dave, I think Nixon got it right in his impeachment speech in his absent backward way. Ideally, we would all sincerely like to believe we are innocent until proven guilty in all cases. But we all know it is really 'guilty until proven innocent', it is just a fact of law - in most cases, we accuse first, excuse second. Laws are designed for control. I often wonder who wrote that warm fuzzy line that we wrap ourselves in...we love the thought of it. (imo)

I was thinking something similar the other day.
You are arrested because it is presumed you are guilty of a crime.
You go before a judge who sets bail because you are presumed guilty of a crime.
The evidence goes before a grand jury who say yes the evidence indicates you are guilty of a crime.

Everything that happens from the arrest to the trial presumes guilt.
How does it suddenly change to presumed innocent?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I was thinking something similar the other day.
You are arrested because it is presumed you are guilty of a crime.
You go before a judge who sets bail because you are presumed guilty of a crime.
The evidence goes before a grand jury who say yes the evidence indicates you are guilty of a crime.

Everything that happens from the arrest to the trial presumes guilt.
How does it suddenly change to presumed innocent?

First they must determine if they feel there is enough probable cause to bring you to trial.

Why try you if they don't feel there is cause??

The jury is instructed to assume your innocence until some evidence is presented to change their mind during the trial.

Then...

the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt in the minds of all twelve jurors that you are guilty.

That seems fair to me.

TL

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

First they must determine if they feel there is enough probable cause to bring you to trial.

Why try you if they don't feel there is cause??

The jury is instructed to assume your innocence until some evidence is presented to change their mind during the trial.

Then...

the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt in the minds of all twelve jurors that you are guilty.

That seems fair to me.

TL

I understand all that TL and for the most part it is as fair as it can be.
I just think it's kind of humorous that right up to the trial you are presumed guilty and then it suddenly changes to you're presumed innocent.
I think our judicial system for the most part does work.
I just find it funny the way it does it.
I've been the accused in court cases and I've been a witness in a court case. I've also sat on juries.
So I think I have a fairly good idea on how it works.

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ThomM 14 years ago

- Thom: Wants a trial from what I can tell?

Thom wants to be entertained and amused by this thread.
But yes I believe there should be a trial.
I only say that because it appears that the investigation is inconclusive.
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I understand all that TL and for the most part it is as fair as it can be.
I just think it's kind of humorous that right up to the trial you are presumed guilty and then it suddenly changes to you're presumed innocent.
I think our judicial system for the most part does work.
I just find it funny the way it does it.
I've been the accused in court cases and I've been a witness in a court case. I've also sat on juries.
So I think I have a fairly good idea on how it works.

Not to be argumentative but I think the question is who presumes you innocent.

Not The State:

The state certainly does not think you're innocent if they are pursuing you in order to bring charges and then get you in a court of law to find you guilty.

And when they have you in a court of law as far as they're concerned you're guilty but...

... they have to prove it to a jury whom is instructed to presume you innocent until you are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The question is who presumes you innocent until...

It's not the entire judicial system - it's only the jury and the judge who acts like a referee between to prosecution and the defense - if its a jury trial.

All The Best!!

TL

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I understand all that TL and for the most part it is as fair as it can be.
I just think it's kind of humorous that right up to the trial you are presumed guilty and then it suddenly changes to you're presumed innocent.
I think our judicial system for the most part does work.
I just find it funny the way it does it.
I've been the accused in court cases and I've been a witness in a court case. I've also sat on juries.
So I think I have a fairly good idea on how it works.

A Jury of your Peers...(however that may be)

What's that old joke on how our Trial System works? :
Q: What is a jury?
A: A group of citizens who aren't smart enough to get out of jury duty and aren't interesting enough to attract the attention of either side.

I know many will argue civic duty, and they are right,* But the joke prevails...there are pages written about it: How to Get Out of Jury Duty: 8 steps - wikiHow

*maybe we should make everyone watch "12 Angry Men"

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Nobodies defending him. We're defending his right to have all the FACTS presented...

INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty....remember?

I hear ya Dave.

I guess what I meant was...

There are folks in here that don't even want him tried.

- Seasoned said he's being railroaded.

- Kay thanked seasoned's post so I guess she's with the "do not charge & bring to trial crowd".

- Ken Caudill surely doesn't believe he should be charged:

- garyv: Same as above.

- KimW: Who knows???

- You: I think you're leaning towards a trial? Are you???

- Thom: Wants a trial from what I can tell?

- Tim: Same

- Wattertrotter: Same

- Me: Same

- Suzanne: Same

- MissTerraK: I think so.

- MoneyMagnate: I'm not sure.

Folks, please correct me if I'm wrong.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I hear ya Dave.

I guess what I meant was...

There are folks in here that don't even want him tried.

- Seasoned said he's being railroaded.

- Kay thanked seasoned's post so I guess she with the "do not charge & bring to trial crowd".

- Ken Caudill surely doesn't believe he should be charged:

- garyv: Same as above.

- KimW: Who knows???

- You: I think you're leaning towards a trial? Are you???

- Thom: Wants a trial from what I can tell?

- Tim: Same

- Wattertrotter: Same

- Me. Same

- Suzanne: Same

- MissTerraK: I think so.

- MoneyMagnate: I'm not sure.

Folks, please correct me if I'm wrong.

All The Best!!

TL

Well, obviously you don't even bother eading post. I have stated quite clearly what I think should be done. :rolleyes:

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Well, obviously you don't even bother eading post. I have stated quite clearly what I think should be done. :rolleyes:

Refresh my memory please.

Should shooter be tried or not???

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- KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator
  
  Refresh my memory please.
  
  Should shooter be tried or not???
  
  Thanks,
  
  TL
  
  I have answered that in at LEAST 3 different posts. But for those who are hard of understanding, I have said I want him to get a fair trial and whatever the results are what the results are. That is a FACT.
  
  I have also stated my OPINION,which is not the same as facts, that I personally think he should be tried,and found guilty of the minimum charge of manslaughter. And that race has no issue in this, it is only an issue to those that want to make it one.
  
  Edit: all those that you list as saying you think they don't want him to go to trial seems you are misinterpeting them as much as you have been me. It seems almost all are for the protection of his civil rights and the rights afforded any individual under our laws.
  
  Now the list of the ones you want to see him go to trail is really the list that have already judged him guilty and are measuring the hangman's noose rope.
  
  Pretty ironic I think.
  
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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

- Ken Caudill surely doesn't believe he should be charged:

- garyv: Same as above.

Folks, please correct me if I'm wrong.

All The Best!!

TL

Ok - you're wrong.

And I really shouldn't have to correct you. You should be reading the posts before making those statements about everyone.

I've also said in previous posts that justice should be served. And if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime, he should pay dearly for it.

Just because I'm providing evidence that others choose to ignore, doesn't mean that you should assume I don't want justice to be served. In fact it should cause you to assume the opposite.

And it may very well be that the prosecutor wants to have all of his ducks in a row before arresting Zimmerman. Because when it comes to homicide, you only have one chance at a prosecution.

It also may very well be that there's evidence that we haven't seen, including forensics and medical reports that prevents a prosecutor from pursuing a case.

Either way, there's no denying that this was a case that was turned into a black vs white battle for political reasons. Professional Journalism was thrown out the window, lies were told, photos were shopped. All in a concerted effort to polarize the country.

True justice in these types of cases will never be served until idiots like Al Sharpton and Geraldo Rivera are given much less of a platform.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Ok - you're wrong.

Yes, he was.

And I really shouldn't have to correct you. You should be reading the posts before making those statements about everyone.

Yes he should be. See next comment by me.

I've also said in previous posts that justice should be served. And if Zimmerman is guilty of a crime, he should pay dearly for it.

We both (and others he made statements about) have said previously and numerous times that what we want to see is justice served and all the facts brought out.

Just because I'm providing evidence that others choose to ignore, doesn't mean that you should assume I don't want justice to be served. In fact it should cause you to assume the opposite.

Again,same as I.

And it may very well be that the prosecutor wants to have all of his ducks in a row before arresting Zimmerman. Because when it comes to homicide, you only have one chance at a prosecution.

Of course none of them have considered that.

It also may very well be that there's evidence that we haven't seen, including forensics and medical reports that prevents a prosecutor from pursuing a case.

Well, I have also mentioned that over and over,but they keep saying they have enough evidence. Several have said the 911 call alone is enough proof.

Either way, there's no denying that this was a case that was turned into a black vs white battle for political reasons. Professional Journalism was thrown out the window, lies were told, photos were shopped. All in a concerted effort to polarize the country.

Again I agree with you 100% . Well,except I question if Professional Journalism even exists in this country anymore.

True justice in these types of cases will never be served until idiots like Al Sharpton and Geraldo Rivera are given much less of a platform.

Well said Gary!I may have to buy you a shot of tequila when this is all over!

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

- MissTerraK: I think so.

- MoneyMagnate: I'm not sure.

Folks, please correct me if I'm wrong.

All The Best!!

TL

Okay TL, so the record is straight on my stance.

Do I think that Zimmerman is guilty of shooting Trayvon to death?

Absolutely yes and by his own admission!

It is the circumstances surrounding the death that are being debated and are in question.

And yes I do want to see this go to trial with all evidence presented by both sides.

I want justice to reign in this case.

So yes I think he's guilty of killing Trayvon as even he says he killed him, and yes I want this to go to trial, however, I am not acting as judge and jury and ready to tar and feather or hang the guy.

I want the truth to prevail!

Now, moving on...

My personal opinion on the way Zimmerman says it went down...

Bullsh*t!!

I don't believe him from what I have heard and read, but of course it doesn't matter what my personal opinion is as I'm not on the jury nor have I been presented with all of the court allowed evidence, forensic or otherwise, in this case.

There you have it, so there is no misunderstanding.

Terra
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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I hear ya Dave.

I guess what I meant was...

There are folks in here that don't even want him tried.

- Seasoned said he's being railroaded.

- Kay thanked seasoned's post so I guess she's with the "do not charge & bring to trial crowd".

- Ken Caudill surely doesn't believe he should be charged:

- garyv: Same as above.

- KimW: Who knows???

- You: I think you're leaning towards a trial? Are you???

- Thom: Wants a trial from what I can tell?

- Tim: Same

- Wattertrotter: Same

- Me: Same

- Suzanne: Same

- MissTerraK: I think so.

- MoneyMagnate: I'm not sure.

Folks, please correct me if I'm wrong.

All The Best!!

TL

TL,

You asked me privately, so OK! I said he was being RAILROADED! That does NOT mean I think he is innocent! It does NOT mean that I feel treyvon was bad in ANY way!

I thought O.J. Simpson was railroaded!

So WHAT DOES it mean?

1. People are manufacturing evidence!
2. People are LYING!
3. People are trying to use this to get rid of the 2nd amendment, self defense rights, and create hatred of whites.
4. People are pulling EVERY trick in the book to KILL zimmerman, or at least lock him up forever.

Let's wait until there is REAL evidence, or at least try him on the GENUINE evidence!

As I said earlier, an early trial may actually declare him NOT GUILTY of this crime, even if it WAS a cold blooded killing out of hate. Once that happens, he can't be tried again. REMEMBER O.J. WHO, by the way, I NOW believe was GUILTY!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

TL,

You asked me privately, so OK! I said he was being RAILROADED! That does NOT mean I think he is innocent! It does NOT mean that I feel treyvon was bad in ANY way!

I thought O.J. Simpson was railroaded!

So WHAT DOES it mean?

1. People are manufacturing evidence!
2. People are LYING!
3. People are trying to use this to get rid of the 2nd amendment, self defense rights, and create hatred of whites.
4. People are pulling EVERY trick in the book to KILL zimmerman, or at least lock him up forever.

Let's wait until there is REAL evidence, or at least try him on the GENUINE evidence!

As I said earlier, an early trial may actually declare him NOT GUILTY of this crime, even if it WAS a cold blooded killing out of hate. Once that happens, he can't be tried again. REMEMBER O.J. WHO, by the way, I NOW believe was GUILTY!

Steve

What's your verdict, from everything you've heard and seen so far???

Yes or No?

Should he be charged and tried??

Yes or No?

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

What's your verdict, from everything you've heard and seen so far???

Yes or No?

Should he be charged and tried??

Yes or No?

Let's see...

He called 911. Frankly, that tells ***ME*** something nobody else mentioned. He thought there was a reason to INSTANTLY involve the police. Not exactly what a maverick would do. So I say that speaks AGAINST some things against him. So I will IGNORE that!

He pursued trayvon. AGAIN, he felt there was a NEED. I can't say there.

SUPPOSEDLY he and another guy were on the grass, and one was pinned. Based on police statements and some witness statements, HE was pinned. But let's ignore that.

I believe he admitted shooting trayvon. Because of trespass, and possible situations, let's ignore THAT.

SUPPOSEDLY he had gashes on his head, and almost had his head bashed in. NOT hard to do if he was pinned down near concrete.

Trayvon SUPPOSEDLY had skittles, an icetea, and something else that I forget. OH, and he was wearing a hoody. This does NOT make him look harmless, and skittles and the icetea could have been used as WEAPONS! The skittles could have been forced down Z's throat, and a full cann of ICE TEA could have been used as a hammer.

OK, now where is the evidence of guilt or innocence?

Steve

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Monty Python lives. And now, for something completely different....

Originally Posted by seasoned

Trayvon SUPPOSEDLY had skittles, an icetea, and something else that I forget. OH, and he was wearing a hoody. This does NOT make him look harmless, and skittles and the icetea could have been used as WEAPONS! The skittles could have been forced down Z's throat, and a full cann of ICE TEA could have been used as a hammer.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Monty Python lives. And now, for something completely different....

Yeah, I should PROBABLY have mentioned that they weren't even necessarily visible and it didn't restrain him from doing anything else.

I could have ALSO mentioned he was "a young kid" Never mind that he was months away from being consdered an adult, or that he may have taken testosterone for YEARS! And never mind that, as a football player, he may have gone through a LOT of training similar to a fighter, with running against a sled(A large wall like contraption loaded down with lots of weight that you have to basically crash into a push), and had to takle people, etc. He may have ALSO had to do plenty of pushups. Some do the almost like they are punching. At 170 pounds, 6', I happen to know that the minimum force is about 102pounds, or about 46KG. BTW football players do NOT go for the minimum!

I could have said his friends said he was a nice kid, etc... The SAME has been said of serial murderers, rapists, etc....

HEY, I'm only saying the truth.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Yeah, I should PROBABLY have mentioned that they weren't even necessarily visible and it didn't restrain him from doing anything else.

I could have ALSO mentioned he was "a young kid" Never mind that he was months away from being consdered an adult, or that he may have taken testosterone for YEARS! And never mind that, as a football player, he may have gone through a LOT of training similar to a fighter, with running against a sled(A large wall like contraption loaded down with lots of weight that you have to basically crash into a push), and had to takle people, etc. He may have ALSO had to do plenty of pushups. Some do the almost like they are punching. At 170 pounds, 6', I happen to know that the minimum force is about 102pounds, or about 46KG. BTW football players do NOT go for the minimum!

I could have said his friends said he was a nice kid, etc... The SAME has been said of serial murderers, rapists, etc....

HEY, I'm only saying the truth.

Steve

Well that's a whole mouthful of irrelevant assumptions in one post. It's just as illegal to blow an adult away for no reason as it is to blow a teen away for no reason, and the 911 tape makes it clear that he had no reason other than Trayvon was looking around and fit the stereotype he was looking for.

As for the rest of the unfounded assumptions.... I can make some up too. Zimmerman may have been taking crack cocaine for YEARS. He may have been a trained Gladiator that killed lions and dinosaurs in the ring and never lost a fight. He may have played hopscotch daily. He may have farted green poinsonous clouds everywhere he went.

Some people said Zimmerman was a nice guy but the same thing was said about Ted Bundy early on.

Just sayin ....:rolleyes:

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well that's a whole mouthful of irrelevant assumptions in one post. It's just as illegal to blow an adult away for no reason as it is to blow a teen away for no reason, and the 911 tape makes it clear that he had no reason other than Trayvon was looking around and fit the stereotype he was looking for.

As for the rest of the unfounded assumptions.... I can make some up too. Zimmerman may have been taking crack cocaine for YEARS. He may have been a trained Gladiator that killed lions and dinosaurs in the ring and never lost a fight. He may have played hopscotch daily. He may have farted green poinsonous clouds everywhere he went.

Some people said Zimmerman was a nice guy but the same thing was said about Ted Bundy early on.

Just sayin ....:rolleyes:

Digg it!

If Z. was such a nice guy, why did he do what he did???

TL

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Nobodies defending him. We're defending his right to have all the FACTS presented...

INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty....remember?

Which is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along,but some here read into it what they want.
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Yeah, but according to Z, he was having his ass kicked by this kid, slamming his head against the cement. How does he not have blood on him and how does the kid end up on his stomach. I would like to know where the bullet entered the body. We don't know yet. He could have shot him in the back for all we know.

No doubt Tim, he could have.

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

The report also says Trayvon was lying face down. I thought anyone shot in the chest would fall backwards.

All sorts of stuff could have happened for Tray to end up in that position.

I think Z. sought Tray out - after being told not to do so by 9-1-1, ...

...then got relatively close to Tray, provoked Tray, they may have tangled...

( it may have been just a pushing contest )

..and then the killer pulled out his gun.

That's when Tray started screaming for help etc.

Then the killer shot Trayvon.

If Z. had flashed the gun in the first place, Tray probably would have run.

Of course I don't know what happened I wasn't there etc. but I can speculate.

All The Best!!

TL

Ps. The police arrived just a few minutes later.

If the killer would have simply followed protocol, Tray would still be alive today.
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

I saw a poll and most people want the killer at least arrested and brought to trial.

Nearly 2/3 of Whites and 86% of non-Whites.

Overall the total numbers come out to about 73% who want an attempt at justice.

I'm willing to bet that if a number of polls were taken across all backgrounds at least 70% would want the killer charged and brought to trial.

Of course there's no way to prove my theory unless numerous polls are actually taken by reputable polling companies.

I believe sooner or later polls will be taken.

Here's a link to a story about a CNN poll with lots of interesting numbers.

CNN poll: Majority call for arrest in Trayvon Martin shooting - CNN

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waterotter

14 years ago

I saw a detective on CNN suggest the possibility that Zimmerman may have been intoxicated when he made the 9-1-1 call.

He stated that as an officer, you are trained to listen for signs of impairment. He mentions the fact that Zimmerman is heard slurring his speech during that call.

How convenient for Zimmerman that he was not tested for drugs or alcohol on the night of the shooting, even though that is standard procedure in most homicide investigations.

This article makes reference to the slurred speech:

Neighborhood Watchman Who Allegedly Shot Trayvon Martin Wanted to Be a Cop - Yahoo!

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KimW

14 years ago

You know, it really is about time to drop the race card.
If you are really upset about a senseless murder then you should be upset a CHILD has died,not that a black child,or a hispanic child or a white child or what ever blank you want to fill in there.
As someone pointed out earlier it was a racially mixed neighborhood,so if 1/2 the calls were about blacks,that makes sense (it looked to me the figure was closer to 60% but still).

And someone made a post about how they had racially mixed grandchildren and how they would hate to have that happen to one of them.
Well,they aren't alone.
I have a racially mixed grandchild, unless you exclude Filipinos from your racial mix.
But this isn't or shouldn't be about race.
Disagree with me all you want but if you are trying to make this a race issue you are just trying to divide America even more than it is already.

My sister lives in a neighbor hood that started off about 50/50 black and white about 20-25 years ago. Over the years the make up of the neighborhood has changed where today there are about 10 white familys and the rest are various others,but the majority now are muslims.
If something happens to a muslin is that racial profiling?

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KimW

14 years ago

Thom,
I've been accused and arrested,and I've dome jury duty.I don't know if the giving of testimony I have done has counted as being a witness though.
I already recounted here a couple of times how the law was abused here in Va and I was arrested for assault,when all I did was touch someones hand which I grabbed a door knob which was thrown out when we went to court.

One time while in court in the audience I spoke aloud my thoughts,I said"That's not fair!" and was promptly removed by the bailiff and charged with contempt of court ( which in retrospect was probably accurate) and held in a cell for about 5 hours. When I went to court for that charge it was also thrown out.

But I do agree with you,
"I think our judicial system for the most part does work."

"Thom wants to be entertained and amused by this thread."
Well, I certainly hope I am contributing to that at least!!

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waterotter

14 years ago

Forensic Expert Ed Primeau concludes it's not Zimmerman yelling for help. He's 98% certain and says after 28 years, he is willing to put his reputation on the line.

Forensic Expert Examines Trayvon Martin 9-1-1 Call

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Forensic Expert Ed Primeau concludes it's not Zimmerman yelling for help. He's 98% certain and says after 28 years, he is willing to put his reputation on the line.

Forensic Expert Examines Trayvon Martin 9-1-1 Call

Jody, is that a different "expert" than the ones already posted?

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waterotter 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Jody, is that a different "expert" than the ones already posted?

Kim, I missed Dave Patterson's link (post #350?). Tom Owen was mentioned as was Ed Primeau. So no, this guy isn't anyone new.
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- Dave Patterson 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by waterotter
  
  Kim, I missed Dave Patterson's link (post #350?). Tom Owen was mentioned as was Ed Primeau. So no, this guy isn't anyone new.
  
  This threads gotten so long, we'll just refer to yours as the "refresher lnk"...
  
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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Thom,
I've been accused and arrested,and I've dome jury duty.I don't know if the giving of testimony I have done has counted as being a witness though.
I already recounted here a couple of times how the law was abused here in Va and I was arrested for assault,when all I did was touch someones hand which I grabbed a door knob which was thrown out when we went to court.

One time while in court in the audience I spoke aloud my thoughts,I said"That's not fair!" and was promptly removed by the bailiff and charged with contempt of court ( which in retrospect was probably accurate) and held in a cell for about 5 hours. When I went to court for that charge it was also thrown out.

But I do agree with you,
"I think our judicial system for the most part does work."

"Thom wants to be entertained and amused by this thread."
Well, I certainly hope I am contributing to that at least!!

I had a break in here years ago and I was actually a big part of the punk getting arrested and convicted.
I didn't see him do it, but I found where he broke in along with his shoe print. I also called him and got him to come out of his house so the Troopers could arrest him. I should mention he was mu daughters x boyfriend and an x employee of mine who lived down the street. I had basically known him since he was born.
I had to give my statement to the grand jury and then was a witness at his trial.
Kim if your posts aren't entertaining, then the responses always are

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Not to be argumentative but I think the question is who presumes you innocent.

Not The State:

The state certainly does not think you're innocent if they are pursuing you in order to bring charges and then get you in a court of law to find you guilty.

And when they have you in a court of law as far as they're concerned you're guilty but...

... they have to prove it to a jury whom is instructed to presume you innocent until you are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

The question is who presumes you innocent until...

It's not the entire judicial system - it's only the jury and the judge who acts like a referee between to prosecution and the defense - if its a jury trial.

All The Best!!

TL

Nothing to argue about TL. Like I said I know how the system works and I know who is suppose to presume you innocent till proven guilty.
I just have one of those strange senses of humor that thinks it's funny

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

A Jury of your Peers...(however that may be)

What's that old joke on how our Trial System works? :
Q: What is a jury?
A: A group of citizens who aren't smart enough to get out of jury duty and aren't interesting enough to attract the attention of either side.

I know many will argue civic duty, and they are right,* But the joke prevails...there are pages written about it: How to Get Out of Jury Duty: 8 steps - wikiHow

*maybe we should make everyone watch "12 Angry Men"

3M I don't know about elsewhere, but if you can't get out of jury duty here, you're way beyond stupid.
When you report, if your number is chosen you go to the appropriate court room. There the judge and lawyers are waiting. The judge explains what the case is and who is involved. The they ask if you know anyone involved. You answer yes and you're gone, civic duty completed.
Next before the lawyers question you the judge asks, "Is there anyone here who feels they can't be fair and impartial." Answer yes and again you're gone civic duty completed.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Maybe our news comes too fast for us to absorb these days, and it causes people to jump to conclusions - This incident is breaking:
(04-02) 12:28 PDT Oakland --

At least two people were killed and six wounded when a gunman opened fire inside an East Oakland private religious university, authorities said.
2 dead, 6 injured, gunman caught in college shooting

This report says 5 Dead:
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-...-classr/nMHdf/

I wonder if getting news this fast is good or bad. The information comes so fast, much of it is sketchy at best, as everyone works to "get the jump" on a story. There's more to sift through in the media frenzy.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Maybe our news comes too fast for us to absorb these days, and it causes people to jump to conclusions - This incident is breaking:
(04-02) 12:28 PDT Oakland --

At least two people were killed and six wounded when a gunman opened fire inside an East Oakland private religious university, authorities said.
2 dead, 6 injured, gunman caught in college shooting

This report says 5 Dead:
Five people killed in Oakland university classroom shooting | www.ktvu.com

And in another 15 minutes you will have more variations .

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waterotter

14 years ago

Dave I knew I had read this stuff just recently, I went back a few pages looking for the info before posting and didn't see it. Wasn't until Kim asked, so I went back further in the thread and found it!

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Or you could just say..."They're guilty or they wouldn't be here..."

(That ought to make a few happy here...)

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Bill Clinton Calls For 'Reappraisal' Of Stand Your Ground Laws Following Trayvon Martin Shooting

"I think the law is going to create real problems because anyone can -- anyone who doesn’t have a criminal background, anyone not prohibited by the Brady Bill and caught by the checks -- can basically be a part of a neighborhood watch where they have a concealed weapon whether they had proper law enforcement training or not. And whether they’ve had any experience in conflict situations with people or not," said Clinton.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Bill Clinton Calls For 'Reappraisal' Of Stand Your Ground Laws Following Trayvon Martin Shooting

"I think the law is going to create real problems because anyone can -- anyone who doesn't have a criminal background, anyone not prohibited by the Brady Bill and caught by the checks -- can basically be a part of a neighborhood watch where they have a concealed weapon whether they had proper law enforcement training or not. And whether they've had any experience in conflict situations with people or not," said Clinton.

... and apparently anyone with a criminal background. Zimmerman still has a concealed carry.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

... and apparently anyone with a criminal background. Zimmerman still has a concealed carry.

I'm interested to see how they will arrive at his circumvention of that privilege.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I'm interested to see how they will arrive at his circumvention of that privilege.

Well, criminal record can mean many things.
I could be wrong and I am not going to bother investigating it,but I am pretty sure if you only have a misdemeanor that really won't be an issue.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Well, criminal record can mean many things.
I could be wrong and I am not going to bother investigating it,but I am pretty sure if you only have a misdemeanor that really won't be an issue.

That's true, but if as had been mentioned in an earlier post, he was prevented from owning a weapon due to a restraining order, it was either disregarded or exempted somehow.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

That's true, but if as had been mentioned in an earlier post, he was prevented from owning a weapon due to a restraining order, it was either disregarded or exempted somehow.

Yep, I know and agree, but some of those orders are permanent and some are temporary. Did it say it was a permanent one?
In addition to that, as has been mentioned Daddy Z May have some power in that area ,we don't know for sure.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Yep, I know and agree, but some of those orders are permanent and some are temporary. Did it say it was a permanent one?
In addition to that, as has been mentioned Daddy Z May have some power in that area ,we don't know for sure.

Actually, he and his girlfriend filed restraining orders against each other at the same time...

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Yep, I know and agree, but some of those orders are permanent and some are temporary. Did it say it was a permanent one?
In addition to that, as has been mentioned Daddy Z May have some power in that area ,we don't know for sure.

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Actually, he and his girlfriend filed restraining orders against each other at the same time...

That hasn't been fully clarified yet. Someone in a story was using it as evidence he should not have had a weapon, but failed to bring up that salient point. Did he obtain a permit before a ban was lifted, or after...if we had copies of those two documents it would be easier to determine.
Heck, by the time the public gets done making or breaking cases...it should be a cakewalk for the Litigators...

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Just to show you I can post something regarding this issue that isn't on the side I have been supporting, here's a few points I have noticed:

* The father actually learned of the death of Trayvon the next day, not three days later as many thought including myself. Joe Scarburough is another who got this wrong.

* It is common for the police to not use the victims cell phone to call numbers on it as that would be considered tampering with the evidence. They would need some sort of court order to do so. ( The police could have gone around the neighborhood and asked people if they knew the victim though and I don't think they did that very much if at all )

* The neighborhood watch program at this community was started when Mr Z contacted the police to set one up. A police officer came out where about two dozen residents showed up. The residents that were there suggested Mr Z be the "captain" or whatever. So, he wasn't really self appointed. ( I do think this "captain" title probably went to his head )

* We don't know what happened after the police dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that". He may have stopped then after he said "OK". What we do know is he hung up and within a couple minutes Trayvon was dead.

OK, since I posted some points from the other side of what I have been, I challenge those who have posted only one sided points to do the same.

Now, all these things haven't changed my opinion that Mr Z was guilty of extremely reckless behavior at least, especially since he was carrying a weapon. He put his life and also Trayvon's in peril because of his decisions. To me this situation is a lot like a person driving while drunk and then killing someone. Manslaughter at the very least and possibly a murder charge because of extreme negligent behavior.

I also think race played a part in these bad decisions on his part in that he at the very least was using the police technique known as racial profiling which I think is unconstitutional. This is clear from his history of reports including calling into the police the suspicious behavior of a 8 year old, and also the reports of him telling neighbors to look out for black males specifically.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Just to show you I can post something regarding this issue that isn't on the side I have been supporting, here's a few points I have noticed:

* The father actually learned of the death of Trayvon the next day, not three days later as many thought including myself. Joe Scarburough is another who got this wrong.

* It is common for the police to not use the victims cell phone to call numbers on it as that would be considered tampering with the evidence. They would need some sort of court order to do so. ( The police could have gone around the neighborhood and asked people if they knew the victim though and I don't think they did that very much if at all )

* The neighborhood watch program at this community was started when Mr Z contacted the police to set one up. A police officer came out where about two dozen residents showed up. The residents that were there suggested Mr Z be the "captain" or whatever. So, he wasn't really self appointed. ( I do think this "captain" title probably went to his head )

* We don't know what happened after the police dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that". He may have stopped then after he said "OK". What we do know is he hung up and within a couple minutes Trayvon was dead.

OK, since I posted some points from the other side of what I have been, I challenge those who have posted only one sided points to do the same.

Now, all these things haven't changed my opinion that Mr Z was guilty of extremely reckless behavior at least, especially since he was carrying a weapon. He put his life and also Trayvon's in peril because of his decisions. To me this situation is a lot like a person driving while drunk and then killing someone. Manslaughter at the very least and possibly a murder charge because of extreme negligent behavior.

I also think race played a part in these bad decisions on his part in that he at the very least was using the police technique known as racial profiling which I think is unconstitutional. This is clear from his history of reports including calling into the police the suspicious behavior of a 8 year old, and also the reports of him telling neighbors to look out for black males specifically.

Tim,
I have always thought you were unbiased and looked at both sides in this and other issues we have discussed over the years.
And as you knew before anyone else as I told you privately,then posted here in this thread, I have always felt zimmerman should be arrested and go to trial.And be convicted of manslaughter at the minimum (which I also have posted in this thread several times)Contrary to what some have tried to make me out as to my position.

Probably our main difference of opinion is on the racial profiling issue. As it has been shown he called in reports on both races and the black reports were only slightly higher. I;m not saying he didn't but I don't feel their is proof that he did.

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garyv 14 years ago
Originally Posted by TimPhelan

OK, since I posted some points from the other side of what I have been, I challenge those who have posted only one sided points to do the same.

I'm not really on one side or the other. I honestly hope justice is carried out. However, since I have made more posts in defense of Zimmerman, I will post these points:
- Trayvon's Dad's Girlfriend lives in that gated community - so Trayvon was not out of place being there.
- Zimmerman looked like he was in good physical shape, so I don't think that Trayvon could have over took him - unless there really was a good one punch to the nose.
- Unless he used a giant Tide pen, or changed his clothes, it doesn't look like there was any blood on Zimmerman, which would seem unusual.
- Why is his father (Zimmerman's) making statements, if he wasn't there?
- And if his father is a Judge or magistrate, why does he not know the first rule of anyone facing a legal case - and that's to keep your mouth shut?
Well there's my contribution - but I still do not know enough about the case to pretend like I should know what the punishment should be. Hopefully soon we'll know more.
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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Just to show you I can post something regarding this issue that isn't on the side I have been supporting, here's a few points I have noticed:

* The father actually learned of the death of Trayvon the next day, not three days later as many thought including myself. Joe Scarburough is another who got this wrong.

* It is common for the police to not use the victims cell phone to call numbers on it as that would be considered tampering with the evidence. They would need some sort of court order to do so. ( The police could have gone around the neighborhood and asked people if they knew the victim though and I don't think they did that very much if at all )

* The neighborhood watch program at this community was started when Mr Z contacted the police to set one up. A police officer came out where about two dozen residents showed up. The residents that were there suggested Mr Z be the "captain" or whatever. So, he wasn't really self appointed. ( I do think this "captain" title probably went to his head )

* We don't know what happened after the police dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that". He may have stopped then after he said "OK". What we do know is he hung up and within a couple minutes Trayvon was dead.

OK, since I posted some points from the other side of what I have been, I challenge those who have posted only one sided points to do the same.

Now, all these things haven't changed my opinion that Mr Z was guilty of extremely reckless behavior at least, especially since he was carrying a weapon. He put his life and also Trayvon's in peril because of his decisions. To me this situation is a lot like a person driving while drunk and then killing someone. Manslaughter at the very least and possibly a murder charge because of extreme negligent behavior.

I also think race played a part in these bad decisions on his part in that he at the very least was using the police technique known as racial profiling which I think is unconstitutional. This is clear from his history of reports including calling into the police the suspicious behavior of a 8 year old, and also the reports of him telling neighbors to look out for black males specifically.

WOW, I'M SHOCKED! THAT was unbiased! You SEE, you CAN do it!

And Kim,
I think the lack of witnesses is causing people to do what they can to approach being wtnesses, by claiming they HEARD things, or happened to quickly see something, and they get confused. On the ground altercation, for example, they claim that someone pinned another, but generally can't identify the person, and identify the clothing that later someone is seen wearing. Logically, that alone might mean zimmerman was on the bottom, since he was reported to have grass stains, but who could really say?

As for the cry for help, don't trust that claim. Besides, who knows really what it was?

I'm not making ANY judgements here. Apparently. on 4/9/2012, the black panthers have arranged to do and not do some things. All SIPLY because zimmerman had been reported in some places as being white. It would be nice if they simply tried to get the police to act. HEY, I don't like the police inaction on such things EITHER! Just being white does NOT get them to act AT ALL!

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

WOW, I'M SHOCKED! THAT was unbiased! You SEE, you CAN do it!

And Kim,
I think the lack of witnesses is causing people to do what they can to approach being wtnesses, by claiming they HEARD things, or happened to quickly see something, and they get confused. On the ground altercation, for example, they claim that someone pinned another, but generally can't identify the person, and identify the clothing that later someone is seen wearing. Logically, that alone might mean zimmerman was on the bottom, since he was reported to have grass stains, but who could really say?

As for the cry for help, don't trust that claim. Besides, who knows really what it was?

I'm not making ANY judgements here. Apparently. on 4/9/2012, the black panthers have arranged to do and not do some things. All SIPLY because zimmerman had been reported in some places as being white. It would be nice if they simply tried to get the police to act. HEY, I don't like the police inaction on such things EITHER! Just being white does NOT get them to act AT ALL!

Steve

It should be noted that Trayvon's family has asked the black panthers to stay out of this.

Tell me more of the black panthers and what they plan.

How about a link?

Thanks,

TL

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

It should be noted that Trayvon's family has asked the black panthers to stay out of this.

Tell me more of the black panthers and what they plan.

How about a link?

Thanks,

TL

Hard to pick out of the 492 MILLION possible google links. Let's take the FIRST:

New Black Panthers Plan April 9- National Day of Action | The Gateway Pundit

Steve

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

Thanks Steve. Now, lets see if you can post an unbiased post about this case. Can YOU do it?

Originally Posted by seasoned

WOW, I'M SHOCKED! THAT was unbiased! You SEE, you CAN do it!
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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Well, criminal record can mean many things.
I could be wrong and I am not going to bother investigating it,but I am pretty sure if you only have a misdemeanor that really won't be an issue.

I think it depends on the state and the person reviewing the permit.
I just read a new story today where a state has decided that your juvenile records can be reviewed when applying for a pistol permit (I forget which state). Anyways the reason for the story was a cop was denied a pistol permit because of his juvy record.
When I applied for one years ago I listed my three misdemeanor convictions.
1. Possession of a controlled substance
2. Petty theft
3. Criminal trespassing
The sheriff's deputy said I would probably not receive my permit because one of the misdemeanors.
I thought well with the criminal trespassing and petty theft, that made sense. But he said no it was because I was arrested and convicted of having pot:rolleyes:
Then the county clerk and the sheriffs dept. got into a fight over who processed the permits. By the time they got to mine I didn't want it anymore, even though it was issued to me. I ended up returning it.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I think it depends on the state and the person reviewing the permit.
I just read a new story today where a state has decided that your juvenile records can be reviewed when applying for a pistol permit (I forget which state). Anyways the reason for the story was a cop was denied a pistol permit because of his juvy record.
When I applied for one years ago I listed my three misdemeanor convictions.
1. Possession of a controlled substance
2. Petty theft
3. Criminal trespassing
The sheriff's deputy said I would probably not receive my permit because one of the misdemeanors.
I thought well with the criminal trespassing and petty theft, that made sense. But he said no it was because I was arrested and convicted of having pot:rolleyes:
Then the county clerk and the sheriffs dept. got into a fight over who processed the permits. By the time they got to mine I didn't want it anymore, even though it was issued to me. I ended up returning it.

Thom, That's a classic story!!

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by ThomM

I thought well with the criminal trespassing and petty theft, that made sense. But he said no it was because I was arrested and convicted of having pot:rolleyes:

Well, that makes perfect sense doesn't it? You have to admit that pot smokers are known for violently assaulting bags of potato chips and cheetos after smoking pot. :p

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well, that makes perfect sense doesn't it? You have to admit that pot smokers are known for violently assaulting bags of potato chips and cheetos after smoking pot. :p

Doritos for me. Something about those smug little pointy corners that just set me off...

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Interesting Ad choice above the WP Bloomberg Business News
Free Concealed Carry Report | What you must know before you carry concealed

btw: I have seen this banner 4 times today in various stories...never really noticed it before.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Neighbor: Trayvon Martin Shooting wasn't self defense.

"Anderson Cooper speaks with two neighbors who called 911 when Trayvon Martin was killed. They have some startling claims about how police responded to the shooting."

This video speaks volumes: Neighbor: Trayvon Martin Shooting wasn't self defense - Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Side Note: If I lived in this gated community, I think I would be rethinking the whole security issue - I seriously would be considering moving to the other side of the gate.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Neighbor: Trayvon Martin Shooting wasn't self defense.

"Anderson Cooper speaks with two neighbors who called 911 when Trayvon Martin was killed. They have some startling claims about how police responded to the shooting."

This video speaks volumes: Neighbor: Trayvon Martin Shooting wasn't self defense - Anderson Cooper 360 - CNN.com Blogs

Side Note: If I lived in this gated community, I think I would be rethinking the whole security issue - I seriously would be considering moving to the other side of the gate.

Jody,
what do you think that video says?

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Jody,
what do you think that video says?

Kim, I'm not a lawyer - but, why is this reporting Zimmerman was on Trayvon's back?

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Jody,
what do you think that video says?

Originally Posted by waterotter

Kim, I'm not a lawyer - but, why is this reporting Zimmerman was on Trayvon's back?

Though this video with the witnesses was compelling, my first instinct is, why are they not being restricted about discussing this case prior to subpoena? :confused: Because a case has not been filed?
Coudn't a defense Lawyer move to have that dismissed as prejudicial? (no pun intended)
If he felt it might be damaging to his client?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Though this video with the witnesses was compelling, my first instinct is, why are they not being restricted about discussing this case prior to subpoena? :confused: Because a case has not been filed?

Since I see so many inconsistencies in their story,I want to know how much they are getting paid for the interview.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Since I see so many inconsistencies in their story,I want to know how much they are getting paid for the interview.

And while you're getting that information...

See if you can get the phone number for the Blond!
Or would that be considered 'tampering' with a witness?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

And while you're getting that information...
see if you can get the phone number for the Blond!

I LOVE Groucho.There are very few good comedians nowadays.
As far as the blonde,she reminds me of some movie star or personality but I can't think of who she looks like.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I LOVE Groucho.There are very few good comedians nowadays.
As far as the blonde,she reminds me of some movie star or personality but I can't think of who she looks like.

She looks a lot like one of those girls on the late-night Extenz infomercials...

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MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

She looks a lot like one of those girls on the late-night Extenz infomercials...

Oh Yeah!
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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Though this video with the witnesses was compelling, my first instinct is, why are they not being restricted about discussing this case prior to subpoena? :confused: Because a case has not been filed?
Coudn't a defense Lawyer move to have that dismissed as prejudicial? (no pun intended)
If he felt it might be damaging to his client?

I believe this investigation was botched from from the beginning - after the lead investigator was over-ruled. The date that these two spoke with CNN was March 20th. My guess is they are just as frustrated as the majority of folks who have been following this.

If this case goes to trial, dismissed or prejudicial - let's hope this video is played out in a court of law as opposed to public speculation.

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KimW

14 years ago

I was always a Ho Ho kinda guy.

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KimW

14 years ago

You have 2 people that didn't see anything,they just heard a noise that they didn't know what it was. Then they they say they saw him straddling martin,then changed it to him being on his back,so which is it? In addition after they claim they saw something they say it was too dark to see anything more. In other words just in that interview alone there are several incosistencies. I have to say I saw them in another interview before and felt the same thing. Especially when so many others "claim" there was noise and screaming ( even if they dispute if it was zimmerman screaming or Martin screaming,they say there was definitely screaming) yet these two who were supposedly so close didn't hear a thing?
I welcome all logical and civil discussion about this.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

I don't know where there is a copy yet...but a nightly news just now is showing an enhanced video of the Z booking, and it apparently shows the back of his head scraped...

Update: Here is a copy of the video:
George Zimmerman Video Shows Injury to Back of His Head - Yahoo!
Note: ABC would like to emphasize that this video was exclusively made for ABC, and it was exclusively enhanced for the exclusive audience of ABC exclusively...

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I don't know where there is a copy yet...but a nightly news just now is showing an enhanced video of the Z booking, and it shows the back of his head scraped...

I also heard this evening, how much worse his Z's injuries were than originally reported, yet reports indicate a second ambulance was waved on as it wasn't necessary to transport Zimmerman to a hospital.

These supposed injuries have bothered me from day one. The fact that Zimmerman didn't go directly to the hospital doesn't provide solid evidence that he sustained the injuries he claims. The chain of evidence was broken here - Did daddy or a friend help him out here (i.e. giving him a well deserved punch in the head etc.)?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

I also heard this evening, how much worse his Z's injuries were than originally reported, yet reports indicate a second ambulance was waved on as it wasn't necessary to transport Zimmerman to a hospital.

These supposed injuries have bothered me from day one. The fact that Zimmerman didn't go directly to the hospital doesn't provide solid evidence that he sustained the injuries he claims. The chain of evidence was broken here - Did daddy or a friend help him out here (i.e. giving him a well deserved punch in the head etc.)?

Jody, if there was onr ambulance there already,of course they would wave the second one on.

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Sid Hale

14 years ago

Kim,

Originally Posted by KimW

Jody, if there was onr ambulance there already,of course they would wave the second one on.

In the report of 2 ambulances being called, the inference was that 1 was for the victim, and the other was intended for Zimmerman. The ambulance for Zimmerman was canceled (per the report) because Zimmerman said he did not need medical attention.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Sid Hale

Kim,

In the report of 2 ambulances being called, the inference was that 1 was for the victim, and the other was intended for Zimmerman. The ambulance for Zimmerman was canceled (per the report) because Zimmerman said he did not need medical attention.

Only 1/2 accurate Sid, They have been numerous reports that zimmerman was treated on the spot.
The facts you mention as two why two ambulances makes sense though.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

I'm so confused. Which side am I on? Prosecution or Defense?

C'mon, somebody help me out here...

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

I'm so confused. Which side am I on? Prosecution or Defense?

C'mon, somebody help me out here...

I think you are on the blondes side. Oh wait,that was 3M, my bad.....
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KimW

14 years ago

Myself, I have posted arguments for both sides,as justice being served is my only agenda.
I also have admitted when I was wrong. I really don't have an issue admitting it when I am.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Me? I never make mistakes...

I thought I did once, but I was wrong -

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Kay King

14 years ago

Suzanne -

7 of the 12 calls in the past 12 month period prior to killing Trayvon were reports of suspicious black men.

And that's why I say you cannot trust what you read online or hear on most cable news.

Why would they mention "7 of the 12 calls"? There were TWENTY calls by Zimmerman since Jan 1, 2012.

Could it be "6 of the 20 calls this year" didn't sound enough like racial profiling (in an area where 45% of the residents are black)?

7 out 12 sounds like "profiling" - but the list released by the Sheriff (according to the source) listed 20 calls THIS YEAR - and only 6 of those had any mention of the person's color.

Could it be to make it more "shocking" they chose only the calls they wanted to use - and ignored the rest?

The reason you can't believe news today is that it's a desperate attempt to sensationalize any popular story to gain audience share. It's not about truth or justice or any sense of journalistic integrity - it's about ratings.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Suzanne -

And that's why I say you cannot trust what you read online or hear on most cable news.

Why would they mention "7 of the 12 calls"? There were TWENTY calls by Zimmerman since Jan 1, 2012.

Could it be "6 of the 20 calls this year" didn't sound enough like racial profiling (in an area where 45% of the residents are black)?

7 out 12 sounds like "profiling" - but the list released by the Sheriff (according to the source) listed 20 calls THIS YEAR - and only 6 of those had any mention of the person's color.

Could it be to make it more "shocking" they chose only the calls they wanted to use - and ignored the rest?

The reason you can't believe news today is that it's a desperate attempt to sensationalize any popular story to gain audience share. It's not about truth or justice or any sense of journalistic integrity - it's about ratings.

I listed 7 of 12 calls in the past year according to the link that you provided in your post. That link did not have 20 calls since Jan of 2012. It had 12 since March 2011 and 7 of those were reporting black males, including a 7-9 year old black male. Guess we can be grateful he didn't shoot that kid.

In addition, as I've posted to you before, neighbors report that he went door to door asking them to be on the lookout for young black males in the neighborhood that don't seem to belong there. That is profiling. If you are sincere about preventing crime in the neighborhood (if you are a self-appointed pseudo cop like Zimmerman), you would simply instruct the neighbors to be on the lookout for suspicious PEOPLE in the neighborhood who don't appear to belong there.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I listed 7 of 12 calls in the past year according to the link that you provided in your post. That link did not have 20 calls since Jan of 2012. It had 12 since March 2011 and 7 of those were reporting black males, including a 7-9 year old black male. Guess we can be grateful he didn't shoot that kid.

In addition, as I've posted to you before, neighbors report that he went door to door asking them to be on the lookout for young black males in the neighborhood that don't seem to belong there. That is profiling. If you are sincere about preventing crime in the neighborhood (if you are a self-appointed pseudo cop like Zimmerman), you would simply instruct the neighbors to be on the lookout for suspicious PEOPLE in the neighborhood who don't appear to belong there.

Again, misinformation,and I gave you a prefect TRUE example earlier.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Again, misinformation,and I gave you a prefect TRUE example earlier.

Whatever Kim. I was not directly engaging you in that post because everything that doesn't jive with what you believe is misinformation.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Whatever Kim. I was not directly engaging you in that post because everything that doesn't jive with what you believe is misinformation.

Kettle? Black? (excuse me, but in my experience ALL cast iron kettles are this color)

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Kettle? Black? (excuse me, but in my experience ALL cast iron kettles are this color)

Then you have a limited experience. I have a copper colored cast iron kettle and then there's the adorable cast iron kettles that are painted, obviously purely for decorative purposes.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Then you have a limited experience. I have a copper colored cast iron kettle and then there's the adorable cast iron kettles that are painted, obviously purely for decorative purposes.

But, of course...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Then you have a limited experience. I have a copper colored cast iron kettle and then there's the adorable cast iron kettles that are painted, obviously purely for decorative purposes.

And again, twisted logic shows itself.
You may have changed the appearance of the kettle, but in reality the kettle itself is black,

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

And again, twisted logic shows itself.
You may have changed the appearance of the kettle, but in reality the kettle itself is black,

Nya Nya....Nya Nya....
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- MissTerraK 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson
  
  Nya Nya....Nya Nya....
  
  Haha!
  
  LOL Dave!
  
  Terra
  
  Thanks
  
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- sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson
  
  Nya Nya....Nya Nya....
  
  Gray cast iron pots, as if it matters.
  
  Thanks
  
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Whatever Kim. I was not directly engaging you in that post because everything that doesn't jive with what you believe is misinformation.

No Suzzanne, everything that doesn't fit YOUR agenda. ANd I have just as might right to post and address anything posted as you do. The REAL facts are
"everything that doesn't jive with what you believe is misinformation."

Again, my agenda is justice. The same thing you claim yours is but your posts indicate otherwise.

And you seem to just ignored the situation I cited.I DID give an example earlier. But you probably didn't read it because the truth isn't important to you it seems.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

No Suzzanne, everything that doesn't fit YOUR agenda. ANd I have just as might right to post and address anything posted as you do. The REAL facts are
"everything that doesn't jive with what you believe is misinformation."

Again, my agenda is justice. The same thing you claim yours is but your posts indicate otherwise.

And you seem to just ignored the situation I cited.I DID give an example earlier. But you probably didn't read it because the truth isn't important to you it seems.

Quite frankly Kim, I'm ignoring everything you post. I'm sick of you reading into my posts what you want and attacking me for my opinion.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Quite frankly Kim, I'm ignoring everything you post. I'm sick of you reading into my posts what you want and attacking me for my opinion.

Suzzanne, I don't care if you ignore me.
I am reading into your post only what you put into them.
When they are factual I don't argue with you, when thay aren't read my response of not, I don't care,but I will still respond.
I don't attack anyone for their opinion, but if they state something as a fact when it isn't,then its fair game.
Take the 911 call for example.
You keep claiming that alone is enough to convict him.
Well,myself and others disagree, but because I disagree YOU attack me.

I don't take this personal because I can have an intelligent conversation without becoming angry. You and a few others here apparently can't,but in the long run that is your problem,not mine.

Just like TL, you have chosen to ignore any point I have made that actually agrees with your viewpoint, And also have chosen to ignore any facts I have provided that do not fit your agenda.

So,I am not reading anything into your posts,I am reading exactly what you write and are advocating.
Would you like me to list them?

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Suzzanne, I don't care if you ignore me.
I am reading into your post only what you put into them.
When they are factual I don't argue with you, when thay aren't read my response of not, I don't care,but I will still respond.
I don't attack anyone for their opinion, but if they state something as a fact when it isn't,then its fair game.
Take the 911 call for example.
You keep claiming that alone is enough to convict him.
Well,myself and others disagree, but because I disagree YOU attack me.

I don't take this personal because I can have an intelligent conversation without becoming angry. You and a few others here apparently can't,but in the long run that is your problem,not mine.

Just like TL, you have chosen to ignore any point I have made that actually agrees with your viewpoint, And also have chosen to ignore any facts I have provided that do not fit your agenda.

So,I am not reading anything into your posts,I am reading exactly what you write and are advocating.
Would you like me to list them?

Nowhere did I say that the 911 tape alone is enough to CONVICT him. Nowhere did I say that anything is enough to CONVICT him.

What I actually said that based on the 911 tape, that's in my opinion is enough for an arrest in this case.

There is absolutely no reason for that kid to have died except for the fact that an armed pseudo cop pursued, confronted and killed him.

Left alone, as he should have been, that kid would have gone home and watched the game with his Dad and brother.

That is my opinion and no amount of facts in this case have been presented to alter my opinion that Zimmerman instigated this and a kid is dead because of it.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Nowhere did I say that the 911 tape alone is enough to CONVICT him. Nowhere did I say that anything is enough to CONVICT him.

Well, yes you have. I am not going back to find it though.Maybe someone else here in this thread will,I don't know.

What I actually said that based on the 911 tape, that's in my opinion is enough for an arrest in this case.

I am sure you may have said that a few times too,but you have also made the first statement several times.

There is absolutely no reason for that kid to have died except for the fact that an armed pseudo cop pursued, confronted and killed him.

And I have agreed with you on that before too,except what you normally do is include the fact that it is a black kid,therefore changing it from an tragic event that a child died into a racially motivated crime. So far there is zero evidence that it was racially motivated.

Left alone, as he should have been, that kid would have gone home and watched the game with his Dad and brother.

All reports indicate his dad was not home,but I believe his brother was, and in the point I have also agreed,that while we don't know all the facts my opinion is that he shouldn't have died.

That is my opinion and no amount of facts in this case have been presented to alter my opinion that Zimmerman instigated this and a kid is dead because of it.

And again, you are welcome to your opinion just as I am welcome to mine.
And if you choose to ignore facts that also is your option.
But in a court of law the facts are what is suppose to matter, not opinion.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

And again, you are welcome to your opinion just as I am welcome to mine.
And if you choose to ignore facts that also is your option.
But in a court of law the facts are what is suppose to matter, not opinion.

Well, yes you have. I am not going back to find it though.Maybe someone else here in this thread will,I don't know.

Well, no I didn't. I have not used the word convict anywhere in this thread, so stop editorializing my posts to suit your agenda.

I'm not in a court of law and not likely to be called as a juror in a state I've never set foot in. I'm in a forum and the majority of posts in this thread are opinions. I think opinions in forums are fairly commonplace.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I'm in a forum and the majority of posts in this thread are opinions. I think opinions in forums are fairly commonplace.

That's true. And let me just say, that even though we disagree in this thread - I still very much enjoy reading your contributions to the warrior forum.

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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

That's true. And let me just say, that even though we disagree in this thread - I still very much enjoy reading your contributions to the warrior forum.

Thank you. And I enjoy yours. I have disagreed with more than a few people here and none of them are enemies.
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

That's true. And let me just say, that even though we disagree in this thread - I still very much enjoy reading your contributions to the warrior forum.

There are many in this thread that I have agreed with on many things both now and in the past and many that I have disagreed with both now and in the past,but they know me enough to know there are no hard feelings when the discussion is over.

Shoot,a few years back Gary and I disagreed on every political discusssion we had. but I consider him a friend.Ken Caudil has insulted me in the forum several times over the years but I agree that our civil rights and the upholding of our constitution are major factors in this situation. Jody, we have been friends for years,but we disagree on this. Same with Tim. I think for the most part Kay and I agree on most things. I'm sure I missed a few,but it doesn't matter because this discussion shouldn't make or break a friendship,its who someone is in the big picture.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

There are many in this thread that I have agreed with on many things both now and in the past and many that I have disagreed with both now and in the past,but they know me enough to know there are no hard feelings when the discussion is over.

Shoot,a few years back Gary and I disagreed on every political discusssion we had. but I consider him a friend.Ken Caudil has insulted me in the forum several times over the years but I agree that our civil rights and the upholding of our constitution are major factors in this situation. Jody, we have been friends for years,but we disagree on this. Same with Tim. I think for the most part Kay and I agree on most things. I'm sure I missed a few,but it doesn't matter because this discussion shouldn't make or break a friendship,its who someone is in the big picture.

You said you were a Groucho fan Kim...here's one of my favorites:

"I didn't come here to be INSULTED!"

Oh, really? Where do you USUALLY go? :rolleyes:

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Well, no I didn't. I have not used the word convict anywhere in this thread, so stop editorializing my posts to suit your agenda.

I have never tried to change the meaning of your posts,I don't need to,they speak your opinion loud enough as it it. And You have said numerous times that the all the evidence needed was on the 911 tape.

I'm not in a court of law and not likely to be called as a juror in a state I've never set foot in. I'm in a forum and the majority of posts in this thread are opinions. I think opinions in forums are fairly commonplace.

Of course ,that is what EVERY post in this thread is, an opinion. but I am amazed how you think I should respect yours when you show mine abslolutely none.

Now of course also in this thread I have also said several times I think you are a good person and with a good heart and good intentions,but you have ignored that every time and instead have come back at me with sarcastic remarks. And just as Gary said, I also like reading your comments in the main forum.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Of course ,that is what EVERY post in this thread is, an opinion. but I am amazed how you think I should respect yours when you show mine abslolutely none.

Now of course also in this thread I have also said several times I think you are a good person and with a good heart and good intentions,but you have ignored that every time and instead have come back at me with sarcastic remarks. And just as Gary said, I also like reading your comments in the main forum.

Disagreeing with someone is not disrespecting their opinion and I don't disrespect your opinion. I've stated more than once that everyone has a right to their opinions and on a topic like this, there is bound to be more than one heated opinion. It comes with the territory.

If we all agreed, it would be a pretty boring debate.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Disagreeing with someone is not disrespecting their opinion and I don't disrespect your opinion. I've stated more than once that everyone has a right to their opinions and on a topic like this, there is bound to be more than one heated opinion. It comes with the territory.

If we all agreed, it would be a pretty boring debate.

Well, you did say you don't even read my posts anymore,and as I have said,made many sarcastic remarks towards me. Of course TL tends to do that too.
I tend to laugh at comments like that and let them roll off my shoulders though.

As far as "If we all agreed, it would be a pretty boring debate." , While discussing this thread someone made a very similar comment and I think we all agree.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Well, you did say you don't even read my posts anymore,and as I have said,made many sarcastic remarks towards me. Of course TL tends to do that too.
I tend to laugh at comments like that and let them roll off my shoulders though.

As far as "If we all agreed, it would be a pretty boring debate." , While discussing this thread someone made a very similar comment and I think we all agree.

Well Kim, I am a sarcastic person, as many here have read. My disagreeing with you wasn't personal, but I felt that you attacked every single post I made and were fairly sarcastic yourself.

So now we should just agree that we disagree and move on.

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waterotter

14 years ago

@Tim - here's my contribution. It's obviously dated and many facts have been played out, but I don't recall this being posted here, so here ya go!

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...n_shooting.pdf

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Suzanne,

FYI...

Kay along with Seasoned and Ken Cadill are of the opinion that the killer should not be charged and brought to trial.

If I'm wrong someone ( of those named ) please correct me.

All The Best!!

TL

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Suzanne,

FYI...

Kay along with Seasoned and Ken Cadill are of the opinion that the killer should not be charged and brought to trial.

If I'm wrong someone ( of those named ) please correct me.

All The Best!!

TL

I read that.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, including me.

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I read that.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, including me.

You may have read it, but its a lie. Have you seen any of those named say that?

And yes,you are entitled to your opinion.
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- sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  You may have read it, but its a lie. Have you seen any of those named say that?
  
  And yes,you are entitled to your opinion.
  
  I'm sure the others are capable of speaking for themselves. I've never seen any of them to be very shy.
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  And yes,you are entitled to your opinion.
  
  Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
  
  Thanks
  
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  KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by sbucciarel
  
  I'm sure the others are capable of speaking for themselves. I've never seen any of them to be very shy.
  
  Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
  
  I'm sure they are too, but when I see lies spread,I will address them.
  Because as I have stated numerous times, and many others have stated numerous times, it's the truth we are interested in, not the spreading of lies.
  
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Suzanne,

FYI...

Kay along with Seasoned and Ken Cadill are of the opinion that the killer should not be charged and brought to trial.

If I'm wrong someone ( of those named ) please correct me.

All The Best!!

TL

TL, quit posting outright lies.
I have NEVER seen any one of those people state that.
You keep promoting your own agenda and it seems the truth be damned in your case,

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

TL, quit posting outright lies.

I have NEVER seen any one of those people state that.

You keep promoting your own agenda and it seems the truth be damned in your case,

Then you're not paying attention or you simply missed it.

Seasoned states in post # #440 of the 9th page of this thread that...

... he thinks Z. is being railroaded.

Kay thanked him for that post.

Here's what Lady Kay said in post # 438 of the 9th page of this thread...

"Maybe the investigators didn't watch enough TV? j/k

What we don't know is if there was a raincoat or overcoat that was removed at the scene. It was raining that night.

Martin's Father was asked to identify the voice on the tape (police asked him) and he said it was not his son.

That was according the local paper a while back. It is reported an eyewitness stated it was Zimmerman shouting.

We don't know anything more than what we read and hear on TV - and no one else does either at this point.

It was a Prosecutor (not police) that said there was not enough evidence to make a charge of manslaughter.

Now the Martin parents are calling for the Prosecutor to be charged and arrested....that's not going to happen.

I think Martin's parents are getting some bad advice from people who may not have the best motives.

Too many talk shows and a story that changes and is becoming more militant by the day.

What we don't want to believe is that a good kid and a nice guy could end up like this.

We want a villain - and maybe there isn't one. Just bad judgment and a bad outcome."

What am I to make of that????

Regarding Mr. C.

Mr. Cadill...

... seems to have made it clear as to which course of action the authorities should take as he as often said that he has no problem with Z. following and talking to Trayvon.

Thread warden,

Why don't you PM Kay, Seasoned and Ken Cadill to make sure they know what I've said, so they can respond and then...

... let's see what they have to say?

If I'm wrong I will happily and profusely apologize for getting it wrong.

As a matter of fact, if I'm wrong, I will be happy to even pay for my mis-statements...

... by sending $10 to any and all of the 3 - or the charity of their choice, that publicly contradict my assertions on this matter.

Sincerely,

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Then you're not paying attention or you simply missed it.
I am reading every thread carefully.

Seasoned states in post # #440 of the 9th page of this thread that...

... he thinks Z. is being railroaded.

Saying he feels someone is being railroaded is not the same as saying he shouldn't go to trial.

Kay thanked him for that post.

Really stretching here TL, thanking someone indicates she isn't looking for justice?? Or that she is advocating no trial??

Here's what Lady Kay said in post # 438 of the 9th page of this thread...

"Maybe the investigators didn't watch enough TV? j/k

And I guess you missed the j/k?? In case that flew by your head, that means Just Kidding. She wasn't serious.

What we don't know is if there was a raincoat or overcoat that was removed at the scene. It was raining that night.

If its true,what's your issue with that?

Martin's Father was asked to identify the voice on the tape (police asked him) and he said it was not his son.

Again, If its true,what's your issue with that?

That was according the local paper a while back. It is reported an eyewitness stated it was Zimmerman shouting.

Broken record time :rolleyes: If its true,what's your issue with that?

We don't know anything more than what we read and hear on TV - and no one else does either at this point.

If its true,what's your issue with that?

It was a Prosecutor (not police) that said there was not enough evidence to make a charge of manslaughter.

If its true,what's your issue with that?

Now the Martin parents are calling for the Prosecutor to be charged and arrested....that's not going to happen.

If she said that,I missed it,but it is expressing an opinion,not a fact, and since you and Miss SB can express your opinions, why can't she?

I think Martin's parents are getting some bad advice from people who may not have the best motives.

That has nothing to to with anything other than saying they might be listening to someone giving them bad advice.

Too many talk shows and a story that changes and is becoming more militant by the day.

Again, how does that even say anything about what she thinks should be done (in your case you claim thats an indicator she doesn't want a
trial)

What we don't want to believe is that a good kid and a nice guy could end up like this.

Same as above, no indicate of what she want in either direction.

We want a villain - and maybe there isn't one. Just bad judgment and a bad outcome."

Same as above, no indicate of what she want in either direction.

What am I to make of that?

Make what you want,but you cartainly can't make a case that she wants Z to go free out of it!!

Regarding Mr. C.

Mr. Cadill...

... seems to have made it clear as to which course of action the authorities should take as he as often said that he has no problem with Z. following and talking to Trayvon.

Ken has only said that it was within Z's CONSTITUTIONAL rights to walk and talk when and where he wants. He has in no way indicated that he feels that Z should go free. There is a huge difference.

Thread warden,

I see you have decided to join SB in the snarky sarcasm. LOL.
If I am the thread warden,what does it make you two? I can discuss this civilly, something it seems neither of you can do. As some would say, GG.

Why don't you PM Kay, Seasoned and Ken Cadill to make sure they know what I've said, so they can respond and then...

One, I have no need too, I've read their post and am intelligent enough to understand what they are saying,and two,some have already responded to your lie.

... let's see what they have to say?

Just reread all threads since you published your "list"and you can read for yourself what some ,if not all have responded to it.

If I'm wrong I will happily and profusely apologize for getting it wrong.

Better start now then.But then, I proved you wrong about me and I never saw an apology,so I doubt if you would follow through with that statement.

As a matter of fact, if I'm wrong, I will be happy to even pay for my mis-statements...

... by sending $10 to any and all of the 3 - or the charity of their choice, that publicly contradict my assertions on this matter.

I can't wait to see that!!

Sincerely,

TL

You know TL, I will be watching this thread too and if any come back and claim you are right, I will also send $10 to them or the charity of their choice. How about that?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

You know TL, I will be watching this thread too and if any come back and claim you are right, I will also send $10 to them or the charity of their choice. How about that?

Deal!

As a matter of fact, I'll PM them myself right now so that we can come to some resolution of this issue.

The wording of the question will simply be...

Do you think Z. should be charged with murder or manslaughter and brought to trial or not.

Yes or No???

Please go to the last page of the thread and weight in.

Thanks,

TL

I'm doing it right now.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Deal!

As a matter of fact, I'll PM them myself right now so that we can come to some resolution of this issue.

The wording of the question will simply be...

Do you think Z. should be charged with murder or manslaughter and brought to trial or not.

Yes or No???

Please go to the last page of the thread and weight in.

Thanks,

TL

I'm doing it right now.

No, the wording should be cut and pasted from your orginal post where you made the list and the claim.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

If you've had a string of burglaries in your neighborhood over several months and police/witnesses have reported that the culprits caught/seen have been black males.

Would you not be especially mindful of unfamiliar black males lurking about in your neighborhood?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

If you've had a string of burglaries in your neighborhood over several months and police/witnesses have reported that the culprits caught/seen have been black males.

Would you not be especially mindful of unfamiliar black males lurking about in your neighborhood?

Yes and I'm Black.

TL

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Yes and I'm Black.

TL

Then what is your issue with it?
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- TLTheLiberator 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Then what is your issue with it?
  
  Locate in this thread where I have said I have an issue with it.
  
  My issue is this thread is...
  
  ... a fake/wannabe cop has stalked and killed someone and almost got away scott free.
  
  He may go to trial, and be acquitted but he won't come out of this experience...
  
  ... unscathed as he no doubt originally thought he would.
  
  TL
  
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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

If you've had a string of burglaries in your neighborhood over several months and police/witnesses have reported that the culprits caught/seen have been black males.

Would you not be especially mindful of unfamiliar black males lurking about in your neighborhood?

That's true...

Plus in several of the calls, the 9-11 operator specifically asks about race. What are you supposed to do but give them the race? In fact NBC has already gotten itself into trouble for editing a 9-11 call where the operator is asking him about the culprits race. They conveniently edit out the part where the operator asks him about the race, and just leave in the part where he says that it's a black person.

And since none of us live in that gated community, there's no possible way of knowing whether or not any white people were even lurking about in the evening times.

I don't think that this man is a racist. He may do profiling based on prior evidence, but that just means that he's not politically correct - that is in most people's opinion playing with the odds - but it's definitely not racist.

If I'm getting reports that white read-headed males are breaking into people's houses, then I'm going to be suspicious any time I see a redheaded kid lurking about at night. That doesn't mean I'm anti-ginger. It just means that I'm concerned for my neighbors.

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

I've said all along that in my eyes race doesn't play a role in my opinions at all, just the incident and the circumstances surrounding it.

And I'll tell you this...if my neighborhood put out a bulletin to be on the look out for short, petite brunette white females, I'd be apprehensive to take my evening strolls.

Terra
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Sid Hale

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

If I'm getting reports that white read-headed males are breaking into people's houses, then I'm going to be suspicious any time I see a redheaded kid lurking about at night. That doesn't mean I'm anti-ginger. It just means that I'm concerned for my neighbors.

or paranoid?

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

If you've had a string of burglaries in your neighborhood over several months and police/witnesses have reported that the culprits caught/seen have been black males.

Would you not be especially mindful of unfamiliar black males lurking about in your neighborhood?

Being mindful and blasting a hole in an unarmed teenager's chest are two different things. Zimmerman profiled and stereotyped young black males as someone to look out for in the neighborhood. What he claimed in the 911 tape was a "suspicious" man, who "looks like he's on a drugs", turned out to be a 17-year old child walking home to his father and brother to watch basketball.

This is why ordinary citizens are not supposed to get involved in a "crime" that they suspect is happening. They are supposed to call the police. To arm your neighborhood with an unhinged pseudo cop is asking for trouble, as that homeowner association is likely to find out when the civil suit happens.

If I were in charge of a gated community, and there was a rash of burglaries, I think I would reassess my security and fire whoever is in charge of security and get a better security person. Residents actually pay more to live in a gated community.

This case is precisely why real Neighborhood Watch programs have people who are armed with nothing but a notepad and are trained to be an additional set of ears and eyes for the cops rather than an armed vigilante guarding the gates.

The burglary of Olivia Bertalan's home was just one of at least eight reported over the previous 14 months--several of which, neighbors said, involved young black men. On Feb. 26, the odds were stacked against Martin: he was a young black man in a neighborhood that was feeling besieged by crime and blaming it--fairly or not--on people who looked like him.

Zimmerman

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Zimmerman profiled and stereotyped young black males as someone to look out for in the neighborhood.

What about the others in the neighborhood that had their houses broken into or witnessed burglary and said they saw young black males? Were they stereotyping also?

He was carrying out his activities based on reports given to him. I'll bet that he never even considered race as the main factor. The main factor for him was likely the breaking in of the houses. Those making wild assumptions as to why he did it show more of a stereo-typing behavior than he does in my opinion.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

What about the others in the neighborhood that had their houses broken into or witnessed burglary and said they saw young black males? Were they stereotyping also?

He was carrying out his activities based on reports given to him. I'll bet that he never even considered race as the main factor. The main factor for him was likely the breaking in of the houses. Those making wild assumptions as to why he did it show more of a stereo-typing behavior than he does in my opinion.

If race wasn't the main factor with Zimmerman, he wouldn't have specifically told the neighbors to look out for young black males.

I quoted the article that told the story about the breakins

quote:
The burglary of Olivia Bertalan's home was just one of at least eight reported over the previous 14 months--several of which, neighbors said, involved young black men. On Feb. 26, the odds were stacked against Martin: he was a young black man in a neighborhood that was feeling besieged by crime and blaming it--fairly or not--on people who looked like him.

There were at least 8 reported breakins in 14 months and SEVERAL involved black men. So what color were the other ones and why aren't they mentioned by Zimmerman?

Racial profiling is not the appropriate response to crime in a neighborhood. Enhanced security and a real neighborhood watch program is. Obviously there was a mix of races involved in the burglaries.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

If race wasn't the main factor with Zimmerman, he wouldn't have specifically told the neighbors to look out for young black males.

I quoted the article that told the story about the breakins

There were at least 8 reported breakins in 14 months and SEVERAL involved black men. So what color were the other ones and why aren't they mentioned by Zimmerman?

Racial profiling is not the appropriate response to crime in a neighborhood. Enhanced security and a real neighborhood watch program is. Obviously there was a mix of races involved in the burglaries.

Again, already addressed numerous times in this thread.

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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Again, already addressed numerous times in this thread.

Again Kim. I don't give a rat's a$$ what's been covered in this thread. You continue to attack every post I make and I am entitled to give my opinion just as others do.
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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I quoted the article that told the story about the breakins

There were at least 8 reported breakins in 14 months and SEVERAL involved black men. So what color were the other ones and why aren't they mentioned by Zimmerman?

I believe they were, you just have to read between the lines like you did above - here's a quote from that same article:

"During the months before he shot Martin, Zimmerman called police about once a month, said Kim Cannaday, spokeswoman for the Seminole County Sheriff's Office. He called about suspicious-looking people in the neighborhood, many whom, like Martin, he identified as black."

So if "many" of the "suspicious-looking people" he reported as black - how did he report the other suspicious looking people?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Being mindful and blasting a hole in an unarmed teenager's chest are two different things. Zimmerman profiled and stereotyped young black males as someone to look out for in the neighborhood. What he claimed in the 911 tape was a "suspicious" man, who "looks like he's on a drugs", turned out to be a 17-year old child walking home to his father and brother to watch basketball.

This is why ordinary citizens are not supposed to get involved in a "crime" that they suspect is happening. They are supposed to call the police. To arm your neighborhood with an unhinged pseudo cop is asking for trouble, as that homeowner association is likely to find out when the civil suit happens.

If I were in charge of a gated community, and there was a rash of burglaries, I think I would reassess my security and fire whoever is in charge of security and get a better security person. Residents actually pay more to live in a gated community.

This case is precisely why real Neighborhood Watch programs have people who are armed with nothing but a notepad and are trained to be an additional set of ears and eyes for the cops rather than an armed vigilante guarding the gates.

Zimmerman

Not even worth commenting on since it has already been covered numerous times already in this thread.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

If you've had a string of burglaries in your neighborhood over several months and police/witnesses have reported that the culprits caught/seen have been black males.

Would you not be especially mindful of unfamiliar black males lurking about in your neighborhood?

Thank you for that Dave, but even with facts like that,they obviously don't care.

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GermanysHero

14 years ago

I think Zimmerman is a murderer.I hope he must in jail.

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by GermanysHero

I think Zimmerman is a murderer.I hope he must in jail.

No jury duty for you.
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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by GermanysHero

I think Zimmerman is a murderer.I hope he must in jail.

You need to talk in coherent sentences .
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

I'm home alone during the days and...

(There's a Brinks sign in the front of the house and one in the back that can be clearly seen so a normal break-in is the last thing I worry about)

But...

... it's funny how some people come to my door during a weekday and act like I'm supposed to open the door for them.

I don't care what they look like, I don't open the door for anyone even attractive females.

They often act surprised and disappointed that I'm not going to open the door.

They can tell quickly me what they want through the glass panels on the sides of my doors.

If I'm interested, I ask them to leave their sales literature.

TL

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm home alone during the days and...

(There's a Brinks sign in the front of the house and one in the back that can be clearly seen so a normal break-in is the last thing I worry about)

But...

... it's funny how some people come to my door during a weekday and act like I'm supposed to open the door for them.

I don't care what they look like, I don't open the door for anyone even attractive females.

They often act surprised and disappointed that I'm not going to open the door.

They can tell quickly me what they want through the glass panels on the sides of my doors.

If I'm interested, I ask them to leave their sales literature.

TL

I'm just the opposite

If they are stupid enough to knock on my door after seeing what my property looks like, then they deserve the full show.
I love the look of fear in their eyes when I first open the door, and then the confusion when they start to realize I'm not as scary as I look.
But I'll admit most just look at my property and move on to the next house

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm home alone during the days and...

(There's a Brinks sign in the front of the house and one in the back that can be clearly seen so a normal break-in is the last thing I worry about)

But...

... it's funny how some people come to my door during a weekday and act like I'm supposed to open the door for them.

I don't care what they look like, I don't open the door for anyone even attractive females.

They often act surprised and disappointed that I'm not going to open the door.

They can tell quickly me what they want through the glass panels on the sides of my doors.

If I'm interested, I ask them to leave their sales literature.

TL

Originally Posted by ThomM

I'm just the opposite

If they are stupid enough to knock on my door after seeing what my property looks like, then they deserve the full show.
I love the look of fear in their eyes when I first open the door, and then the confusion when they start to realize I'm not as scary as I look.
But I'll admit most just look at my property and move on to the next house

For some reason...this came to mind:

Oh, sure!...you want to come in ?

They might get a little freaked by the pet Moths too...

:rolleyes:

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garyv 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

For some reason...this came to mind:

Oh, sure - you want to come in ?

They might get a little freaked by the pet Moths too...

lol - that face always reminds me of "Oh wait... was she a great big fat person?"

Was she a great big fat person? - YouTube
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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

For some reason...this came to mind:

Oh, sure!...you want to come in ?

They might get a little freaked by the pet Moths too... :rolleyes:

lol. I wouldn't go in ... no way
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Sid Hale

14 years ago

It's not at all uncommon for charges to be withheld, if the prosecutor's office feels that there is insufficient evidence to prosecute.

The failure here seems to be... that law enforcement did not pursue the investigation after that decision was made (in spite of reports that the investigator on the case apparently believed that Zimmerman was culpable).

The ensuing publicity seems to have revived the investigation. I hope that enough credible evidence can be (at this late date) be gathered to establish guilt or innocence.

If sufficient evidence of guilt is found, Zimmerman should be charged.

If not, he should not be charged.

In the latter case, it would be better for Zimmerman, if he were charged and acquitted - but the DA's office isn't going to do that if they don't have sufficient evidence of guilt.

There will always be those who will consider him guilty, regardless.

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garyv

14 years ago

Here's a good example of how passion can impede your judgement, and a blatant representation of why we need to tighten up our Journalistic ethics in our Country.

Piers Morgan defends Zimmerman interview - YouTube

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Here's a good example of how passion can impede your judgement, and a blatant representation of why we need to tighten up our Journalistic ethics in our Country.

Piers Morgan defends Zimmerman interview - YouTube

What I need to see is the interview with Pierce and Z.'s brother tp see if Toure' is on point or not.

Maybe it's not Pierce's role to play "Crossfire" with his guests.

I'm not sure what you mean about tightening up our Journalistic standards when it's a free country and...

... you are a big Fox News fan whom the late Steve Jobs called...

... a destructive force within the society".

Mr. Jobs is not God but why would he say something like that???

All The Best!!

TL

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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm not sure what you mean about tightening up our Journalistic standards when it's a free country and...

I agree completely that journalistic integrity is at an all time low. That's pretty evident from the phone hacking scandal in the UK (and probably here) as well as the smear campaign against this teenager posting phony photos and referencing pot smoking as well as NBC or whoever doctoring the 911 transcript.

That's not journalism. But there are plenty of straight stories around that post the facts as they get them, especially if you are diverse in your news sources and don't just listen or read from one source.
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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm not sure what you mean about tightening up our Journalistic standards when it's a free country and...
... you are a big Fox News fan
All The Best!!

TL

lol - I love how you blanket people with these statements. You're only proving that you yourself like to stereo-type people.

I like all news and entertainment channels that disguise themselves as news. And yes that includes MSNBC and Fox News.

And by the way - being a free country does not give you the right to lie or be unethical and still call yourself a reliable journalist. Of course you are "free" to try. But as you can see a lack of real journalism is ruining our country.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

lol - I love how you blanket people with these statements. You're only proving that you yourself like to stereo-type people.

I like all news and entertainment channels that disguise themselves as news. And yes that includes MSNBC and Fox News.

And by the way - being a free country does not give you the right to lie or be unethical and still call yourself a reliable journalist. Of course you are "free" to try. But as you can see a lack of real journalism is ruining our country.

Gary, this is pretty close to what I tell people in general:
Freedom Of Speech does not give you the right to lie,libel or slander anyone.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Gary, this is pretty close to what I tell people in general:
Freedom Of Speech does not give you the right to lie,libel or slander anyone.

Isn't that why we got rid of the 'Fairness Doctrine' ? :confused:

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Isn't that why we got rid of the 'Fairness Doctrine' :confused:

The Fairness doctrine has to do with ownership of radio and tv stations and the equal distribution of different political viewpoints.

As far as radio stations go the folks on the right have something like a 10-1 advantage.

TL

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garyv 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

.

As far as radio stations go the folks on the right have something like a 10-1 advantage.

TL

And the opposite is true of TV. I would say that it equals itself out, but not nearly as many people listen to their radio.
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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The Fairness doctrine has to do with ownership of radio and tv stations and the equal distribution of different political viewpoints.

As far as radio stations go the folks on the right have something like a 10-1 advantage.
TL

True, I should have mentioned I was only referring to the media...
regular citizens are still free to basically lie, libel or slander anyone as they choose...

But previously, media outlets were required to show both sides of the lies, libel or slander in most cases...

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Isn't that why we got rid of the 'Fairness Doctrine' ? :confused:

I don't know, you have given me something to research.
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Kay King

14 years ago

I don't owe you any explanation of anything - and I don't care what color you are. Color has never been a measure to me.

But - your PM was polite and I'll answer it here:

Yes, I think Zimmerman should be charged. I think he will eventually be charged. My problem is the underbelly of this story where we have people telling others what they should think and arguing a verdict when they don't have all the facts on either side.

I think this was an unfortunate accident. It wasn't a planned murder but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences. However, it is not a basis for a racial war....for people in Congress to be making wild statements or for anyone to take a side because of the color of their skin.
It the real issue is "hate crimes" those same Congressmen would be holding forth on the murder of a white boy in Texas "because he was white" - but they aren't. It doesn't fit their agenda.

My objection is to conclusions drawn that are presented as facts by the media and by Sharpton and his gang of activists.

The two women saw nothing until after the incident - now they've mentally processed what they saw in a way that fits their own beliefs. That's normal - it may be a piece of evidence as part of the entire case.

How Zimmerman reacted after the shooting is not unusual. I had the same reaction after a traumatic event. I didn't respond to questions, I paced and walked in circles trying to process in my mind what had happened. I was in denial and in shock...but it doesn't mean anything except my body's system was shut down. I wasn't acting logically or normally - it wasn't a normal situation. His actions could as easily be interpreted as someone in shock and denial of what he had just done.

My own belief system is there are two sides to every story - and I like to know the details on BOTH sides.

The point is - we don't know the entire truth. What we do know is there is a real effort to turn this into a racial confrontation - and I think there's a reason this is being done.

Are we all getting along too well these days? Is there no big issue to divide us and pit one race against the other?

Why would it be a good time to promote a story into a racial issue that could galvanize members of a race throughout the country?

Clearly, in the interview with Piers - the man is saying "don't you dare present any evidence that doesn't go along with our side of this".

I think justice was the motivating factor initially - but I think it's become lost in the rhetoric. I think what is running the protest today is an agenda of racial unrest and I don't think it's accidental.

What I fear is the level of emotion being pushed in the protests could spill into violence very easily. Other people could be hurt or killed if that happens. And where will "justice" be then?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I don't owe you any explanation of anything - and I don't care what color you are. Color has never been a measure to me.

But - your PM was polite and I'll answer it here:

Yes, I think Zimmerman should be charged.

I think he will eventually be charged. My problem is the underbelly of this story where we have people telling others what they should think and arguing a verdict when they don't have all the facts on either side.

I think this was an unfortunate accident. It wasn't a planned murder but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences. However, it is not a basis for a racial war....for people in Congress to be making wild statements or for anyone to take a side because of the color of their skin.
It the real issue is "hate crimes" those same Congressmen would be holding forth on the murder of a white boy in Texas "because he was white" - but they aren't. It doesn't fit their agenda.

My objection is to conclusions drawn that are presented as facts by the media and by Sharpton and his gang of activists.

The two women saw nothing until after the incident - now they've mentally processed what they saw in a way that fits their own beliefs. That's normal - it may be a piece of evidence as part of the entire case.

How Zimmerman reacted after the shooting is not unusual. I had the same reaction after a traumatic event. I didn't respond to questions, I paced and walked in circles trying to process in my mind what had happened. I was in denial and in shock...but it doesn't mean anything except my body's system was shut down. I wasn't acting logically or normally - it wasn't a normal situation. His actions could as easily be interpreted as someone in shock and denial of what he had just done.

My own belief system is there are two sides to every story - and I like to know the details on BOTH sides.

The point is - we don't know the entire truth. What we do know is there is a real effort to turn this into a racial confrontation - and I think there's a reason this is being done.

Are we all getting along too well these days? Is there no big issue to divide us and pit one race against the other?

Why would it be a good time to promote a story into a racial issue that could galvanize members of a race throughout the country?

Clearly, in the interview with Piers - the man is saying "don't you dare present any evidence that doesn't go along with our side of this".

I think justice was the motivating factor initially - but I think it's become lost in the rhetoric. I think what is running the protest today is an agenda of racial unrest and I don't think it's accidental.

What I fear is the level of emotion being pushed in the protests could spill into violence very easily. Other people could be hurt or killed if that happens. And where will "justice" be then?

So...

Kay is on the record as saying she believes Z. should be charged.

Kay, you have my sincerest and humblest apologies.

I WAS WRONG BIGTIME.

I was so sure of myself...

I wanted to pay a financial penalty for misspeaking and spreading false info.

According to an agreement I made with Kim...

I owe you Kay or the charity of your choice $10.

Can you PM your Paypal address and then I can forward the $10 to you and then you can do whatever you like with it?

I await your PM.

Thanks for correcting me ans setting the record straight.

All The Best!!

TL

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

lol - I love how you blanket people with these statements. You're only proving that you yourself like to stereo-type people.

I like all news and entertainment channels that disguise themselves as news. And yes that includes MSNBC and Fox News.

And by the way - being a free country does not give you the right to lie or be unethical and still call yourself a reliable journalist.

Of course you are "free" to try. But as you can see a lack of real journalism is ruining our country.

Journalism is one thing and opinion is another.

I'm surprised at how many people continue to get the two confused.

Journalism is simply reporting the news and both sides of an issue or allowing both sides of an issue to be heard to the listener or reader.

Regarding opinion...

Opinion is just that - someone's opinion.

If people weren't so lazy and would do a little homework...

... they would be able to recognize outright lies and half-truths ...

( or do some homework to verify the claims of the opinion )

...and then stop listening to those people or organizations who are continue to perpetuate outright lies and half-truths.

But lots of people don't want the truth.

They feel a certain way about this or that or things in general...

... and they seek a source that confirms their feelings.

And the source knows it.

The source then takes advantage of the lazy and their feelings and manipulates them into attitudes that lead to political positions or a general political direction.

And all too often, it's a political direction that actually economically hurts the mentally lazy themselves when they think they are hurting only someone else.

The quality of journalism hasn't changed that much over the years.

IMHO...

It's the manipulated feelings and mental laziness of a good hunk of our electorate that is the real problem in this nation.

That's all I can say without naming names and giving examples etc.

All The Best!!

TL

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Here's a good example of how passion can impede your judgement, and a blatant representation of why we need to tighten up our Journalistic ethics in our Country.

Piers Morgan defends Zimmerman interview - YouTube

Pierce Morgan hosts a talk show where he interviews people.

That's all.

It was a hoot when he interviewed Ted Nonsense I mean Ted Nugent.

How do you propose we "tighten up" our journalistic standards?????

I'd love to know.

All The Best!!

TL

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Suzanne,

Those are "inexperienced" examples...

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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Suzanne,

Those are "inexperienced" examples...

lol ... of course they are. But isn't the monkey adorable?
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waterotter

14 years ago

This is the first that I've brought race to the table here, but this truly sickens me - Zimmerman is afforded the protection Trayvon was denied.

Criticism of the New Black Panthers' reward for Zimmerman's arrest reveals a double standard.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/press_releases/Release11.pdf

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

This is the first that I've brought race to the table here, but this truly sickens me - Zimmerman is afforded the protection Trayvon was denied.

Criticism of the New Black Panthers' reward for Zimmerman's arrest reveals a double standard.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/press_releases/Release11.pdf

The NBP's have no business offering a reward period.

The Martin family has asked them to stay out of this many times.

I'm black and I agree with the Martin family.

The NBP should just be ignored - period.

They act like it's the 1970's or something.

They need to stop.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The NBP's have no business offering a reward period.

The Martin family has asked them to stay out of this many times.

I'm black and I agree with the Martin family.

The NBP should just be ignored - period.

They act like it's the 1970's or something.

They need to stop.

All The Best!!

TL

Actually in the 70s they were a very violent group spouting hate .

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Ironically, they started out initially as a group to protect the African American community from police brutality and against selective gun control.

Originally Posted by KimW

Actually in the 70s they were a very violent group spouting hate .

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Ironically, they started out initially as a group to protect the African American community from police brutality and against selective gun control.

Many groups start out with good intentions but various people infiltrate and change the original intent. That's why I said those familiar with the entire history.

They worked together with many in the hippie movement,and black and whites were working together trying to make a better world for all of us. They started soup kitchens to feed the poor and homeless and did other acts of good will.

I disagree that "they started out initially as a group to protect the African American community from police brutality and against selective gun control."

I would be more than happy to look at any information that says that though.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Many groups start out with good intentions but various people infiltrate and change the original intent. That's why I said those familiar with the entire history.

They worked together with many in the hippie movement,and black and whites were working together trying to make a better world for all of us. They started soup kitchens to feed the poor and homeless and did other acts of good will.

I disagree that "they started out initially as a group to protect the African American community from police brutality and against selective gun control."

I would be more than happy to look at any information that says that though.

And be sure to click on "The Ten Point Plan" after this page...

http://www.blackpanther.org/legacynew.htm

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

You can find that description of them in several places online. Here's one:

Black Panther Party (American organization) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

The party's original purpose was to patrol black ghettoes to protect residents from acts of police brutality.

Originally Posted by KimW

I disagree that "they started out initially as a group to protect the African American community from police brutality and against selective gun control."

I would be more than happy to look at any information that says that though.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Kim, this is what you said, which isn't far from what TL said you said about Sharpton and Jackson:

"Over the past 30 -40 years both of those individuals have preached hate of whites."

To me, that quote makes it sound like they have continually preached hate against whites, which doesn't seem true at all to me. ( In fact, I can't find one instance where they have ever preached hate against whites ) Sure, both have made very unfortunate remarks here and there, which they usually apologized for, but to insinuate that they have preached hate against against whites for 40 years is just wrong.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Kim, this is what you said, which isn't far from what TL said you said about Sharpton and Jackson:

"Over the past 30 -40 years both of those individuals have preached hate of whites."

To me, that quote makes it sound like they have continually preached hate against whites, which doesn't seem true at all to me. ( In fact, I can't find one instance where they have ever preached hate against whites ) Sure, both have made very unfortunate remarks here and there, which they usually apologized for, but to insinuate that they have preached hate against against whites for 40 years is just wrong.

And in a following post I said I had worded it improperly,that I actually meant in more recent times.

I never insinuated that.

And what unfortunate remarks are you referring to?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Kim, this is what you said, which isn't far from what TL said you said about Sharpton and Jackson:

"Over the past 30 -40 years both of those individuals have preached hate of whites."

To me, that quote makes it sound like they have continually preached hate against whites, which doesn't seem true at all to me. ( In fact, I can't find one instance where they have ever preached hate against whites )

Sure, both have made very unfortunate remarks here and there, which they usually apologized for,

but to insinuate that they have preached hate against against whites for 40 years is just wrong.

And let me add...

it does not mean you're a racist my eyes, you're just wrong in your assessment IMO.

That's all.

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

And let me add...

it does not mean you're a racist my eyes, you're just wrong in your assessment IMO.

That's all.

TL

But you both seem to have missed the fact that I did correct that statement a few post later,and said it was not interpeted the way it was meant and I admiitted it right away.

Of course you still haven't clarified what you mean when you made the comment about my opinion,TL, which is the actual comment that made me feel,rightly or wrongly that you were saying I was a racist.

Just so there is no mistake, this is the comment I am talking about:
"But after what you've said about Jessie and Al Sharpton and how you feel they have been spewing hate verses white folk for 40 years I'm not surprised at you opinion."
So,once again I ask, what do you think my opinion is?

PS: I actually hope I misunderstood what I thought you said.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

But you both seem to have missed the fact that I did correct that statement a few post later,and said it was not interpeted the way it was meant and I admiitted it right away.

Of course you still haven't clarified what you mean when you made the comment about my opinion,TL, which is the actual comment that made me feel,rightly or wrongly that you were saying I was a racist.

Just so there is no mistake, this is the comment I am talking about:

"But after what you've said about Jessie and Al Sharpton and how you feel they have been spewing hate verses white folk for 40 years I'm not surprised at you opinion."

So,once again I ask, what do you think my opinion is?

I should have added - of the Panthers of the 1960's and 70's.

I was talking about your opinion of the Panthers and that I wasn't surprised by it...

... since you also made those IMHO, ill-informed comments about Al & Jessie.

That's all.

Is that clear???

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I should have added - of the Panthers of the 1960's and 70's.

I was talking about your opinion of the Panthers and that I wasn't surprised by it...

... since you also made those IMHO, ill-informed comments about Al & Jessie.

That's all.

Is that clear???

All The Best!!

TL

Well, certainly not in agreement as I don't think my comments about Al and Jessie are misinformed at all. After all, I HEARD them,and that was long before I needed a hearing aid.

And Tim "seems" to be admitting the made some comments that were inappropriate that they ended up apologizing for,of course since I don't know what comments he means I can't comment on the content of them.

As it is As it is I take your word you weren't insinuating I was a racist so we can move on without issues.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Well, certainly not in agreement as I don't think my comments about Al and Jessie are misinformed at all. After all, I HEARD them,and that was long before I needed a hearing aid.

And Tim "seems" to be admitting the made some comments that were inappropriate that they ended up apologizing for,of course since I don't know what comments he means I can't comment on the content of them.

As it is As it is I take your word you weren't insinuating I was a racist so we can move on without issues.

Great!!

Can you try to get a clear answer out of Ken???

Thanks,

TL

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Great!!

Can you try to get a clear answer out of Ken???

Thanks,

TL

You must have missed it, I actually did a few posts after the answer he gave!!
I even mentioned the big bucks you and I have riding on his answer.

Here is the link to the post I made.

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...ml#post5965905
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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You can find that description of them in several places online. Here's one:

Black Panther Party (American organization) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

The Encyclopedia Britannica is just one of many tools the CIA uses to shape history into the likeness they want to impress on gullible minds.
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- MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson
  
  The Encyclopedia Britannica is just one of many tools the CIA uses to shape history into the likeness they want to impress on gullible minds.
  
  And here I thought the CIA got their information about the Black Panthers
  
  from watching Dirty Harry movies...
  
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- Dave Patterson 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson
  
  The Encyclopedia Britannica is just one of many tools the CIA uses to shape history into the likeness they want to impress on gullible minds.
  
  My idea of funny after way too much coffee this morning...
  
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  TimPhelan 14 years ago
  
  Haha. You had me wondering there Dave!
  
  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson
  
  My idea of funny after way too much coffee this morning...
  
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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You can find that description of them in several places online. Here's one:

Black Panther Party (American organization) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Tim I see the statement in the second line of that article is:"The party's original purpose was to patrol black ghettoes to protect residents from acts of police brutality."
But in the very next line (line #3) it states "The Panthers eventually developed into a Marxist revolutionary group that called for the arming of all blacks," and it wasn't over years,it was in a period of months.

Maybe the ones I knew didn't adhere to the California brach philosophy,because as I said, helping the hungry and poor were some of our first goals, not hurting any one of any race . But things changed.
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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You can find that description of them in several places online. Here's one:

Black Panther Party (American organization) -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

Well, I heard something that was BULL yesterday, so I decided to watch this little history of the KKK, to see if they ALSO thought it was BULL. They said THE KKK started out as a kind of fraternity, without the college. The stuff they are prosecuted and hated about grew OUT of that! It WAS unbiased and DID confirm what I believed. Alas, THAT would be political. 8-(

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, I heard something that was BULL yesterday, so I decided to watch this little history of the KKK, to see if they ALSO thought it was BULL. They said THE KKK started out as a kind of fraternity, without the college. The stuff they are prosecuted and hated about grew OUT of that! It WAS unbiased and DID confirm what I believed. Alas, THAT would be political. 8-(

Steve

If someone said the KKK was started as some type of fraternity they are full of ______.

The KKK was formed for one reason and one reason alone.

To harass ( and a lot more ) the newly freed slaves of this country.

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If someone said the KKK was started as some type of fraternity they are full of ______.

The KKK was formed for one reason and one reason alone.

To harass ( and a lot more ) the newly freed slaves of this country.

TL

WHOA! Stop the world, I actually agree with you on this one TL!!

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

WHOA! Stop the world, I actually agree with you on this one TL!!

I can't get a yes or no answer out of Steve - much like Ken.

TL
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- sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator
  
  I can't get a yes or no answer out of Steve - much like Ken.
  
  TL
  
  I think Ken was pretty clear in his view. He doesn't believe there is sufficient evidence to bring a case to trial ... as in hard evidence like a witness says I saw exactly this. I personally think that an armed Neighborhood Watch guy pursuing a teen and it resulting in the teen's death is manslaughter at a minimum. There are rules Neighborhood Watch people are supposed to play by and he broke them all.
  
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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

WHOA! Stop the world, I actually agree with you on this one TL!!

Well, I can't say, since I wasn't alive then, and most of the world didn't know about them until the WERE bad! STILL, at least one source says they started out as a kind of fraternity that was NOT doing what they are now known for.

HEY, people supposedly say the same about the black panthers, and I can't say THAT is true EITHER!

Steve

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, I can't say, since I wasn't alive then, and most of the world didn't know about them until the WERE bad! STILL, at least one source says they started out as a kind of fraternity that was NOT doing what they are now known for.

HEY, people supposedly say the same about the black panthers, and I can't say THAT is true EITHER!

Steve

That's ok Steve, while I agree with you on a lot of stuff, we can't agree on everything!

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The KKK was formed to get the occupiers out of the south during Reconstruction and to protect the citizens of the south from outrages.

Who tells you these things?

Klan

The KKK was disbanded in 1869.

The morons in sheets who run around now are despicable.

AKA carpetbaggers if I remember correctly.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The NBP's have no business offering a reward period.

The Martin family has asked them to stay out of this many times.

I'm black and I agree with the Martin family.

The NBP should just be ignored - period.

They act like it's the 1970's or something.

They need to stop.

All The Best!!

TL

TL, I don't care if this had of been a group of white/brown/black tea-totin' grannies. It's the double standards shown by the police that I take issue with. :confused:

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

This is the first that I've brought race to the table here, but this truly sickens me - Zimmerman is afforded the protection Trayvon was denied.

Criticism of the New Black Panthers' reward for Zimmerman's arrest reveals a double standard.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/press_releases/Release11.pdf

The difference is that the laws are more stringent on actual vigilantism and less so on actually defending yourself.

Right now the reason given for not arresting Zimmerman is the claims of self defense. Eventually a Grand Jury will see all of the available evidence and weigh in on whether they think that is true.

However going out on your own to apprehend Zimmerman is a clear cut case of vigilantism. If you believe in justice, there's no reason why you should think that this should be justified.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

This is the first that I've brought race to the table here, but this truly sickens me - Zimmerman is afforded the protection Trayvon was denied.

Criticism of the New Black Panthers' reward for Zimmerman's arrest reveals a double standard.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/press_releases/Release11.pdf

Don't know how many here have lived through the complete history of the Black panthers like I have, but they are no Guardian Angels group. :rolleyes:

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Don't know how many here have lived through the complete history of the Black panthers like I have, but they are kno Guardian Angels group. :rolleyes:

And they are were not the hate group you claim them to be.

They were anti-oppression etc. but not anti-white.

But after what you've said about Jessie and Al Sharpton and how you feel they have been spewing hate verses white folk for 40 years I'm not surprised at you opinion.

BTW,

The Panthers of the 1970's worked with many, many white groups on many projects in the 60's and 1970's until they were destroyed by the FBI etc.

Kim,

Being pro-black do not necessarily make you anti white.

This new group is not worthy of the BP legacy and I wish they would go away.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

And they are were not the hate group you claim them to be.

TL,
Your entitled to that opinion. They killed people and the people they killed were white.
I don't know a single instance of them killing another black person.

They were anti-oppression etc. but not anti-white.

Most are anti-oppression,but see above.

But after what you've said about Jessie and Al Sharpton and how you feel they have been spewing hate verses white folk for 40 years I'm not surprised at you opinion.

One, you are trying to make me out a racist which is not true ,fair or accurate.You are not even repeating what I said correctly. What I said is that I have heard them both say things that were anti-white and could be construed as hate speech,and I also said, and this is important, that they didn't always preach that.
Now what are you assuming my opinion actually is? I mean again that is a snarky sarcastic remark,but I am used to them by now.
So, since I can't make up my own opinion,tell me what mine is??

BTW,

The Panthers of the 1970's worked with many, many white groups on many projects in the 60's and 1970's until they were destroyed by the FBI etc.

And care to elaborate while they were destroyed? I could but I won't.

Kim,

Being pro-black do not necessarily make you anti white.

Never said it did, I am pro all races and colors. The only thing I can say I am currently against is the illegal aliens in this country. Yet I am all for anyone that is here legally. But even that stance makes me unpopular to some. I can live with it.

This new group is not worthy of the BP legacy and I wish they would go away.

Well,something we can agree on.

All The Best!!

TL

By the way TL, I would love to have a PM discussion with you about some of the assumptions you are making. I think you would be surprised at some thing I would tell you about.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

By the way TL, I would love to have a PM discussion with you about some of the assumptions you are making. I think you would be surprised at some thing I would tell you about.

But Kim...

I never even alluded to you being a racist.

I just said your assessment of Al & Jessie who you claimed earlier in this thread to have been preaching hate against white folk - for 40 years is wrong.

You have said the above in this very thread.

I never said you were a racist or even alluded to it.

Even the Southern Poverty Law center ( Mentioned by Dave above )

... disagrees with your assessment of the Panthers from the 60's and 70's.

Taken from their website...

principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s-- a militant, but...

... non-racist, ...

...left-wing organization --

...have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

But Kim...

I never even alluded to you being a racist.

I just said your assessment of Al & Jessie who you claimed earlier in this thread to have been preaching hate against white folk - for 40 years is wrong.

You have said the above in this very thread.

No,that isn't what I said, and of course I have already responded to that in a follow up post,but what I said was that they were NOT always that way. But people change,especially those that love being in the limelight.
Now, you also said after the first part of your statement:" I'm not surprised at you opinion."
Now considering you claimed (mistakenly) that I said some black people preached hate of whites and then made that statement.It seemed to me you were saying I was racist. When I responded I asked you what you meant by that and unless I missed it, you didn't address it,so it seemed to me you were implying I was a racist. So,what DID you mean by that?

I never said you were a racist or even alluded to it.

See above.

Even the Southern Poverty Law center ( Mentioned by Dave above )

... disagrees with your assessment of the Panthers from the 60's and 70's.

Taken from their website...

principals of the original Black Panther Party of the 1960s and 1970s-- a militant, but...

... non-racist, ...

...left-wing organization --

...have rejected the new Panthers as a "black racist hate group" and contested their hijacking of the Panther name and symbol.

Once again, I also stated they did not start out that way. my post can't be too far up ,find it and reread it. I said they started out as a good organization with blacks and whites working together in harmony. And when I first mentioned the group at all I asked if they knew the history of it.

But on top of that, I lived through it( just like the DC riots we discussed earlier in this thread) and I will believe what I see and hear over what someone has written years afterwards any time.

All The Best!!

TL

Since putting a bounty (which technically could be considered a contract) out on someone is illegal,whoever in that organization authorized it should be arrested.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

And they are were not the hate group you claim them to be.

They were anti-oppression etc. but not anti-white.

But after what you've said about Jessie and Al Sharpton and how you feel they have been spewing hate verses white folk for 40 years I'm not surprised at you opinion.

BTW,

The Panthers of the 1970's worked with many, many white groups on many projects in the 60's and 1970's until they were destroyed by the FBI etc.

Kim,

Being pro-black do not necessarily make you anti white.

This new group is not worthy of the BP legacy and I wish they would go away.

All The Best!!

TL

All you said here is either true or may be true, but they ARE anti white! Who cares what they WERE? And being pro white does NOT mean anti black. HECK, the US, Germany, and many other places have laws AGAINST violence against certain groups due to what they are.

Al sharpton, louis farrakan, jessie jackson, etc... HAVE said VILE things about whites. And they are trying to engender hatred of them.

Steve

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

All you said here is either true or may be true, but they ARE anti white! Who cares what they WERE? And being pro white does NOT mean anti black. HECK, the US, Germany, and many other places have laws AGAINST violence against certain groups due to what they are.

Al sharpton, louis farrakan, jessie jackson, etc... HAVE said VILE things about whites. And they are trying to engender hatred of them.

Steve

I agree, being pro white does not mean a person is anti black just like the reverse is true.

Other than what you said about Farrakan nothing else you said makes any sense and I'm not surprised.

TL

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Don't know how many here have lived through the complete history of the Black panthers like I have, but they are no Guardian Angels group. :rolleyes:

You can say THAT again...New Black Panther Party | Southern Poverty Law Center

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

You can say THAT again...New Black Panther Party | Southern Poverty Law Center

Wow, they hate me.

I wonder if they'd like me more if I had a deep dark tropical tan??:rolleyes:

Since when has the amount of melanin contained in someone's epidermis ever determined their character or worth?

As Red would say...Dumb a**ses!

Terra

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Wow, they hate me.

I wonder if they'd like me more if I had a deep dark tropical tan??:rolleyes:

Since when has the amount of melanin contained in someone's epidermis ever determined their character or worth?

As Red would say...Dumb a**ses!

Terra

It's unfortunate that they even stepped into this by putting a bounty of Zimmerman's head and that Spike Lee posted (the wrong) address on Twitter of Zimmerman's home. Fortunately, he probably had to pay a pretty hefty amount of money to the poor family that was bombarded with unwanted attention because of his stupidity.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

It's unfortunate that they even stepped into this by putting a bounty of Zimmerman's head and that Spike Lee posted (the wrong) address on Twitter of Zimmerman's home. Fortunately, he probably had to pay a pretty hefty amount of money to the poor family that was bombarded with unwanted attention because of his stupidity.

I agree Suzanne!

I highly doubt that they stepped in because the care one iota about Trayvon as an individual!

Just another situation they determined to use to spread their hatred!

I, in an earlier post said that bringing race into this unfortunate and tragic incident was as stupid as one stirring up a bee's nest and if anyone got stung by it, they deserved it.

If Spike Lee has to pay, then I'm glad he got stung!

P.S. Your monkey was adorable.

Terra

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I agree Suzanne!

I highly doubt that they stepped in because the care one iota about Trayvon as an individual!

Just another situation they determined to use to spread their hatred!

I, in an earlier post said that bringing race into this unfortunate and tragic incident was as stupid as one stirring up a bee's nest and if anyone got stung by it, they deserved it.

If Spike Lee has to pay, then I'm glad he got stung!

P.S. Your monkey was adorable.

Terra

Actually, though Spike Lee apologized profusely to the couple for his error...I think that was pretty much it - he didn't even cover their bar tab - which it would have been nice if he had covered the hotel or something...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Actually, though Spike Lee apologized to the couple profusely for his error...I think that was pretty much it - he didn't even cover their bar tab - which it would have been nice if he had covered the hotel or something...

3M,
Don't count that incident as over yet.
I'm willing to bet a civil suit against him comes out.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Actually, though Spike Lee apologized profusely to the couple for his error...I think that was pretty much it - he didn't even cover their bar tab - which it would have been nice if he had covered the hotel or something...

Spike Lee reaches settlement for tweeting wrong address for George Zimmerman - The Root DC Live - The Washington Post

The amount of the settlement was not disclosed.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Kim,

It's done.

Hopefully they will respond in a timely manner.

Here's what I sent them.

Name,

I'm not trying to harass you but Kim and I need your opinion on something.

The question is...

Do you think Z. should be charged with murder or manslaughter and brought to trial or not.

Yes or No???

You can see post 483 on the 10th page of the thread to see what I've written and then...

Please go to the last page of the Trayvon thread and weight in.

Thanks,

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Kim,

It's done.

Hopefully they will respond in a timely manner.

Here's what I sent them.

Name,

I'm not trying to harass you but Kim and I need your opinion on something.

The question is...

Do you think Z. should be charged with murder or manslaughter and brought to trial or not.

Yes or No???

You can see post 483 on the 10th page of the thread to see what I've written and then...

Please go to the last page of the Trayvon thread and weight in.

Thanks,

TL

Works for me.

Will you also admit I have stated both what I believe should happen and what my opinion is? Not asking you to agree with me,just to clear the record up on it.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If they don't have the evidence to convict him, why arrest and try him?

Until they do, they need to leave the man alone.

Speculation about Zimmerman's character and motives is useless.

If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, and eyewitness accounts seem to point that way, Zimmerman was within his rights to shoot Trayvon. Innocent until proven guilty still holds.

It really boils down to that.

But couldn't it be said that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman in self defense?

If I had been being followed after dark (as Zimmerman even stated he was doing) and felt my life threatened and knew I could throw a mean punch, I might have taken a swing out of fear for my life too.

But I don't think that would constitute me being gunned down.

Just sayin'

Terra

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

But couldn't it be said that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman in self defense?

If I had been being followed after dark (as Zimmerman even stated he was doing) and felt my life threatened and knew I could throw a mean punch, I might have taken a swing out of fear for my life too.

But I don't think that would constitute me being gunned down.

Just sayin'

Terra

Zimmerman is 250 lbs. Trayvon was 140 lbs. Zimmerman had a gun. Trayvon had skittles and was being followed by someone who outweighed him by around 100 lbs. The first go round of "investigation" was no investigation.

If a teenager is being pursued by a big guy with a gun in Florida, doesn't he hold the right to Stand his Ground and defend himself by any means possible?

Due to social media bringing a bright spotlight onto this case, it is now being investigated by everyone and their mother.

You can't have evidence of a crime if you don't bother to investigate. I'm confident now that it is actually being investigated, that there will be sufficient cause for a trial.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Zimmerman is 250 lbs. Trayvon was 140 lbs. Zimmerman had a gun. Trayvon had skittles and was being followed by someone who outweighed him by around 100 lbs. The first go round of "investigation" was no investigation.

If a teenager is being pursued by a big guy with a gun in Florida, doesn't he hold the right to Stand his Ground and defend himself by any means possible?

Due to social media bringing a bright spotlight onto this case, it is now being investigated by everyone and their mother.

You can't have evidence of a crime if you don't bother to investigate. I'm confident now that it is actually being investigated, that there will be sufficient cause for a trial.

I believe there will be too, and I'm glad it is properly being investigated.

I mean if the exact same scenario happened with me, I would certainly hope that there would be a public outcry if at first it was determined no charges should be brought up and no prosecutable crime had been committed with my shooting death!

I also think that if everyone were being honest, they would feel the same way if they were the one killed.

Terra

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The incident was investigated. The prosecutor believed he did not have enough evidence to convict. That still appears to be the case.

Perhaps NBC could manufacture some evidence and please the mob.

Oh wait --they already did.

And so did the right with their fake gang photos of Trayvon. The first go round was hardly an investigation. The lead investigator wanted to bring charges against Zimmerman. He didn't buy his story. So now a new prosecutor gets a go at it. Time will tell soon enough if there's enough evidence to go to trial.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Still no arrest on this one, right? You can't arrest and convict people on conjecture --at least you shouldn't. All of the hard evidence points to Zimmerman's side of things.

It's a hard thing for that boy to die. I feel for his parents. I am surprised that Zimmerman has not been arrested due to public pressure. I am pleasantly surprised that investigators appear to be following the law.

Well Ken, you can't say that with any certainty until the grand jury convenes and the new prosecutor is done with her investigation. If there's enough evidence, it will go to trial. If not, it won't.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

Still no arrest on this one, right? You can't arrest and convict people on conjecture --at least you shouldn't. All of the hard evidence points to Zimmerman's side of things.

It's a hard thing for that boy to die. I feel for his parents. I am surprised that Zimmerman has not been arrested due to public pressure. I am pleasantly surprised that investigators appear to be following the law.

I'm just curious Ken, as to what you believe the hard evidence is exactly?

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I'm just curious Ken, as to what you believe the hard evidence is exactly?

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Terra

Well I'm not Ken but I can tell you the two eyewitnesses,which as of this point in time have not been discredited would certainly be considered hard evidence.
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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Zimmerman is 250 lbs. Trayvon was 140 lbs. Zimmerman had a gun. Trayvon had skittles and was being followed by someone who outweighed him by around 100 lbs. The first go round of "investigation" was no investigation.

You saw the video of Zimmerman like everyone else did - and yet you are still perpetuating a false fact. Zimmerman's weight at the time was 170 - and it's easy to see that by looking at the video. Also the police report has Trayvon as weighing 160. That's merely a 10 pound difference.

In most MMA matches where weight is similar, the odds usually go to the guy with the longer reach.

And what many are forgetting is that there was not only a punch to the nose reported. But he also reported that his head was being pounded on the pavement. In his report he said that he feared he'd be dead if it continued. So it was a matter of saving himself - not just blocking punches.

If there's evidence that shows Zimmerman was not telling the truth in his report, then he should be punished. But if his report is true I'd say that he had every right to defend himself.

Even if someone is following me and comes up on me with a gun - and I happen to get a one punch in that knocks him to the ground - I'm not going to hang around and continue to slam his head into the ground. I'm going to run like hell.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

You saw the video of Zimmerman like everyone else did - and yet you are still perpetuating a false fact. Zimmerman's weight at the time was 170 - and it's easy to see that by looking at the video. Also the police report has Trayvon as weighing 160. That's merely a 10 pound difference.
.

But if you look at the police report...Z is the only one with no weight listed, yet he went to the station for questioning...did they just 'forget' to include or add it in the report? Why the discrepancy?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

But if you look at the police report...Z is the only one with no weight listed, yet he went to the station for questioning...did they just 'forget' to include or add it in the report? Why the discrepancy?

Is weight really an issue? Bruce Lee was like 125 or 130, yet I don't think any of the MMA fighters today could have taken him.
But in all seriousness, I saw a report that claimed martin was not only 6'3",which I have seen at several sources,but he was also the same weight Cassius Clay was when he wont the title many years ago ( just before changing his name to Mahammed Ali).

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

But if you look at the police report...Z is the only one with no weight listed, yet he went to the station for questioning...did they just 'forget' to include or add it in the report? Why the discrepancy?

It's easy to see in that video that he's no where near 250 pounds. At 5'9 he'd have to be quite a bit chunkier than the video shows.

I'm 6 foot tall and I start looking over-weight at 205. He's 5'9 and doesn't look overweight at all in that video.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

It's easy to see in that video that he's no where near 250 pounds. At 5'9 he'd have to be quite a bit chunkier than the video shows.

I'm 6 foot tall and I start looking over-weight at 205. He's 5'9 and doesn't look overweight at all in that video.

I don't know what he is, I saw a video claim he was 5'6". I honestly don't know what the truth was.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Is weight really an issue? Bruce Lee was like 125 or 130, yet I don't think any of the MMA fighters today could have taken him.
But in all seriousness, I saw a report that claimed martin was not only 6'3",which I have seen at several sources,but he was also the same weight Cassius Clay was when he wont the title many years ago ( just before changing his name to Mohammed Ali).

Originally Posted by garyv

It's easy to see in that video that he's no where near 250 pounds. At 5'9 he'd have to be quite a bit chunkier than the video shows.

I'm 6 foot tall and I start looking over-weight at 205. He's 5'9 and doesn't look overweight at all in that video.

I do not refer to the weight in reference to the actual altercation, only in reference as to why it is left out of the report. If his weight is 170, fine...but where did they get that info, because it is not in that report. I'm not trying to nit-pick, it just seems out of place.

And true, size does not determine who will be the winner of a fight. The story of David and Goliath can easily argue that.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I do not refer to the weight in reference to the actual altercation, only in reference as to why it is left out of the report. If his weight is 170, fine...but where did they get that info, because it is not in that report. I'm not trying to nit-pick, it just seems out of place.

And true, size does not determine who will be the winner of a fight. The story of David and Goliath can easily argue that.

Well 3M, I didn't quote any actual weight,just a report I heard comparing the weight between martin and Clay. I couldn't tell you at all what Clay weight at the time .

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Well 3M, I didn't quote any actual weight,just a report I heard comparing the weight between martin and Clay. I couldn't tell you at all what Clay weight at the time .

Did you mean Zimmerman? Or Clay? Clay fought light-heavyweight 168-175

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Did you mean Zimmerman? Or Clay? Clay fought light-heavyweight 168-175

The the report was right.
That's also what I thought but I was too lazy/not interested enough to look it up.
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

You saw the video of Zimmerman like everyone else did - and yet you are still perpetuating a false fact. Zimmerman's weight at the time was 170 - and it's easy to see that by looking at the video. Also the police report has Trayvon as weighing 160. That's merely a 10 pound difference.

In most MMA matches where weight is similar, the odds usually go to the guy with the longer reach.

And what many are forgetting is that there was not only a punch to the nose reported. But he also reported that his head was being pounded on the pavement. In his report he said that he feared he'd be dead if it continued. So it was a matter of saving himself - not just blocking punches.

If there's evidence that shows Zimmerman was not telling the truth in his report, then he should be punished. But if his report is true I'd say that he had every right to defend himself.

Even if someone is following me and comes up on me with a gun - and I happen to get a one punch in that knocks him to the ground - I'm not going to hang around and continue to slam his head into the ground. I'm going to run like hell.

I have also posted numerous times that in my opinion the real smoking gun would be his claim of a broken nose. If it was broken it would need to be fixed,and preferably the sooner the better. And if it was fixed there would have to be a record,well,at least should be,somewhere.Hospital or Drs office.
Contrary to what others have said, there wouldn't need for it to have gotten blood on him,because swelling could prevent that from happening,but a broken nose left unfixed could lead to serious breathing problems,so I doubt they would not take care of it.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I have also posted numerous times that in my opinion the real smoking gun would be his claim of a broken nose. If it was broken it would need to be fixed,and preferably the sooner the better. And if it was fixed there would have to be a record,well,at least should be,somewhere.Hospital or Drs office.
Contrary to what others have said, there wouldn't need for it to have gotten blood on him,because swelling could prevent that from happening,but a broken nose left unfixed could lead to serious breathing problems,so I doubt they would not take care of it.

If there's not a medical report - and possibly some pictures, then he's in some big trouble. However I've broken my nose several times, and all I had to do was pop it back into place, and control the bleeding.

Also if cops were doing their job, then they should have pictures of any injuries to Zimmerman. The upcoming Grand Jury should have access to those.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

If there's not a medical report - and possibly some pictures, then he's in some big trouble. However I've broken my nose several times, and all I had to do was pop it back into place, and control the bleeding.

Also if cops were doing their job, then they should have pictures of any injuries to Zimmerman. The upcoming Grand Jury should have access to those.

Damn Gary, I've heard of boxers doing that. Does it hurt much doing it yourself?

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garyv 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Damn Gary, I've heard of boxers doing that. Does it hurt much doing it yourself?

lol - I'm no boxer - just a guy with no insurance trying to save money. It definitely hurts.
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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Damn Gary, I've heard of boxers doing that. Does it hurt much doing it yourself?

Hurts AND embarrassing...
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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

We don't know if Zimmerman's nose was broken or not. It doesn't matter whether it was or not. The only thing that matters is whether or not Zimmerman was justified in shooting Treyvon.

If he was attacked and in fear for his life, he is justified in the shooting.

and if Trayvon was stalked and confronted by an armed man and in fear of his life, he was justified in fighting. That's what the Florida law states. He had the right to Stand his Ground.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

and if Trayvon was stalked and confronted by an armed man and in fear of his life, he was justified in fighting. That's what the Florida law states. He had the right to Stand his Ground.

Having the right and it being the intelligent thing to do are two different things.
Interestingly enough I just bought a book today that,I didn't know it at the time,had some guidelines on what to do if stalked.
The main one said:if you think your being stalked expect the worse and react accordingly,ie,get the hell away as fast as you can.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Having the right and it being the intelligent thing to do are two different things.
Interestingly enough I just bought a book today that,I didn't know it at the time,had some guidelines on what to do if stalked.
The main one said:if you think your being stalked expect the worse and react accordingly,ie,get the hell away as fast as you can.

He was a kid coming home from the store. I doubt that he was really expecting to know the best way to avoid being killed on his way home.

This is a recent photo of Trayvon with his girlfriend. As you can see even with the baggy clothes that he was thin as opposed to the hefty Zimmerman in the photo below that ... and of course the gun makes him an even bigger man.

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TimPhelan 14 years ago

I saw that photo a couple days ago and was going to post it. He doesn't look like a tough guy does he? He may have been tall, but he looks like a good kid. Not a trouble maker like some like to portray him.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

He was a kid coming home from the store. I doubt that he was really expecting to know the best way to avoid being killed on his way home.

This is a recent photo of Trayvon with his girlfriend. As you can see even with the baggy clothes that he was thin as opposed to the hefty Zimmerman in the photo below that ... and of course the gun makes him an even bigger man.

Do you have the date that picture was taken? How recent is it? and zimmerman is not "hefty" as you describe him.

As far as what happened to him, you yourself claim he told his gf he was being followed.Whether the required thing or not,the sensible thing would have distanced himself.

I don't understand why you keep insisting he was a kid going home.I have not seen anyone here dispute that,unless you think it reinforces your opinion,but it doesn't.
In addition,
WE ALL KNOW THAT FACT.

My post did not indicate at all I felt that he knew any such thing, I was passing along information that I had read about the best course of action ANYONE should take if they feel they are being stalked.

YOU turned it into another issue here,something I have intentionally tried to avoid for the last few pages of this thread. :rolleyes:

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Do you have the date that picture was taken? How recent is it? and zimmerman is not "hefty" as you describe him.

As far as what happened to him, you yourself claim he told his gf he was being followed.Whether the required thing or not,the sensible thing would have distanced himself.

I don't understand why you keep insisting he was a kid going home.I have not seen anyone here dispute that,unless you think it reinforces your opinion,but it doesn't.
In addition,
WE ALL KNOW THAT FACT.

My post did not indicate at all I felt that he knew any such thing, I was passing along information that I had read about the best course of action ANYONE should take if they feel they are being stalked.

YOU turned it into another issue here,something I have intentionally tried to avoid for the last few pages of this thread. :rolleyes:

The picture was taken 9 days before he was killed. And Zimmerman is hefty in my book. Sell those fat hams and the roll over his belt and the broad chest and shoulders in comparison to Trayvon. Not to mention he is around 10 years older than him. If anyone should have used ordinary common sense, it would be him.

I keep saying he was a kid going home because he was a kid going home. Nothing more.

Yeah ... again, me stating my opinion is turning it into an issue you wanted to avoid. Just ignore my posts then. You don't have to read them.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

The picture was taken 9 days before he was killed. And Zimmerman is hefty in my book. Sell those fat hams and the roll over his belt and the broad chest and shoulders in comparison to Trayvon. Not to mention he is around 10 years older than him. If anyone should have used ordinary common sense, it would be him.

I keep saying he was a kid going home because he was a kid going home. Nothing more.

AGAIN. EVERYONE KNOWS IT AND NO ONE DISPUTES IT.

Yeah ... again, me stating my opinion is turning it into an issue you wanted to avoid. Just ignore my posts then. You don't have to read them.

Of course I don't have to read them.And it I do read them and respond to then,you don't have to respond back.
In this case I tried to pass along some general information and you made it into an issue in this case. So if you say that is just stating your opinion,thats fine.
It is quite obvious now that you are going to attack every post I make,even when I am extremely civil to you and that is your perrogative,but it isn't going to do anything but make me laugh.

You Just keep posting.

As will I.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Of course I don't have to read the.And it I do read them and respond to then,you don't have to respond back.
In this case I tried to pass along some general information and you made it into an issue in this case. So if you say that is just stating your opinion,thats fine.
It is quite obvious now that you are going to attack every post I make,even when I am extremely civil to you and that is your perrogative,but it isn't going to do anything but make me laugh.

You Just keep posting.

As will I.

Oh knock it off Kim. This is getting old. You don't like my posts ignore them. I'm not the one bitchin about yours but I damn well will post my opinion when I feel like it.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Oh knock it off Kim. This is getting old. You don't like my posts ignore them. I'm not the one bitchin about yours but I damn well will post my opinion when I feel like it.

Like I said, your post like this make me laugh.
And you are bitching about mine,continually actually, by twisting everything I say.
I even tried to smooth things out with you several times because I enjoy discussions,not arguments,but arguments seem to be what you want,and I won't take your bait.
And of course, I welcomed you to post your opinions.
I just said I will continue the same.
What's your issue with that?

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Like I said, your post like this make me laugh.
And you are bitching about mine,continually actually, by twisting everything I say.
I even tried to smooth things out with you several times because I enjoy discussions,not arguments,but arguments seem to be what you want,and I won't take your bait.
And of course, I welcomed you to post your opinions.
I just said I will continue the same.
What's your issue with that?

Good ... glad to see you have a sense of humor. That doesn't really come through. I am most certainly not bitchin about your posts except that you are quite simply quite argumentative with every post I make even when they are not addressed to you, which most of them aren't.

I am debating and posting my opinion. If you think they bait, don't take it. I haven't twisted a thing you've said and you thinking that I am is rather odd. Someone disagreeing with you is not twisting your words. I simply disagree with you.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Good ... glad to see you have a sense of humor. That doesn't really come through. I am most certainly not bitchin about your posts except that you are quite simply quite argumentative with every post I make even when they are not addressed to you, which most of them aren't.

I am debating and posting my opinion. If you think they bait, don't take it. I haven't twisted a thing you've said and you thinking that I am is rather odd. Someone disagreeing with you is not twisting your words. I simply disagree with you.

Most people DO get my sense of humour. And you saying you are not bitching about my post doesn't ring true when you are actually quoting them the majority of the time,and most are contrary to what you just said.Maybe I will go back tomorrow and talley them up,too late for tonight.
I'm not argumentive at all.Already clarified this several times that if you or anyone else present something as fact and it isn't,I will question it, but that isn't being argumentive. Its a normal part of discussion,it's how the person reacts what decides if it is argumentive or not.

As I said, repeating something in every post doesn't usually constitute debating your position,debating a position means making your point and moving on to the next one. But again, you HAVE twisted what I said numerous times. Now you are back pedalling and saying now you are just disagreeing with me. Well, disagree with me all you want. And I will continue to refute the post you nake that aren't accurate,just like I do with every other poster here. If you feel singled out,that's your bad,not mine.

And just so you know, I completely understand he was a boy going home.

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Kay King 14 years ago

A report in the NY Times and Chicago SunTimes yesterday said the size of the men as an argument won't hold up.

The statement said Zimmerman is 20 lbs heavier than Martin - and Martin is 4" taller than Zimmerman.

Interesting how some facts can't be found - the time of evening this happens is one of them. Another is how far Trayvon was from his father's home. These are simple facts - like height and weight - but are the hardest facts to find.

I found this AP article published today one of the more balanced approaches to this subject I've seen:

Media take on police-like role in Martin case | www.wpxi.com

I'm not going to argue about Zimmerman's brother - don't know him but he's been smeared since that interview. What I SAID was he made a good point that made me skeptical about recent witnesses. You have a gated community with neighborhood watch and recent break-ins....and you hear a loud struggle and do nothing? One person, maybe...but several?
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Kay King 14 years ago

I had wrong info about the calls - have learned several people did call to report the noises.

Just read one of the better articles about this entire incident (published yesterday) at

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/us...of-ideals.html

It's good because it describes both Martin and Zimmerman well including their pasts and how they were seen by friends and neighbors. Includes times and height/weight, too.

Has interesting info about the "gated community" which makes you see that area as typical in this economy rather than some exclusive compound.

It's perhaps the only article I've read that presents both "sides" without pontificating about it. Worth a read - and there is a map that shows locations of both homes of the two men and where the shooting occurred.
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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Do you have the date that picture was taken? How recent is it? and zimmerman is not "hefty" as you describe him.

As far as what happened to him, you yourself claim he told his gf he was being followed.Whether the required thing or not,the sensible thing would have distanced himself.

I don't understand why you keep insisting he was a kid going home.I have not seen anyone here dispute that,unless you think it reinforces your opinion,but it doesn't.
In addition,
WE ALL KNOW THAT FACT.

My post did not indicate at all I felt that he knew any such thing, I was passing along information that I had read about the best course of action ANYONE should take if they feel they are being stalked.

YOU turned it into another issue here,something I have intentionally tried to avoid for the last few pages of this thread. :rolleyes:

I don't know Kim, his pudgy belly extends past his belt and those look like some pretty hefty thunder thighs to me.

Terra

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

LOL Suzanne!

GMTA!

Terra
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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I don't know Kim, his pudgy belly extends past his belt and those look like some pretty hefty thunder thighs to me.

Terra

Thanks ... then you see exactly what I see.
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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

I don't know Kim, his pudgy belly extends past his belt and those look like some pretty hefty thunder thighs to me.

Terra

Terra,your right,he looks FAT to me,not hefty.

Maybe she just needs to get the dictionary out and look up the difference.
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

We don't know if Zimmerman's nose was broken or not. It doesn't matter whether it was or not. The only thing that matters is whether or not Zimmerman was justified in shooting Treyvon.

If he was attacked and in fear for his life, he is justified in the shooting.

I agree and disagree Ken. My point was the nose is very central in his claim of being attacked therefore it would give credence to his story,therefore it is very important.And if it isn't true then it detracts from his credibility.

But I agree that if he feared for his life it was justified.

I've also made a post on the nature of fear. Fear is relevant to each individual, none of us cannot define the fear in anyone else.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

You saw the video of Zimmerman like everyone else did - and yet you are still perpetuating a false fact. Zimmerman's weight at the time was 170 - and it's easy to see that by looking at the video. Also the police report has Trayvon as weighing 160. That's merely a 10 pound difference.

In most MMA matches where weight is similar, the odds usually go to the guy with the longer reach.

And what many are forgetting is that there was not only a punch to the nose reported. But he also reported that his head was being pounded on the pavement. In his report he said that he feared he'd be dead if it continued. So it was a matter of saving himself - not just blocking punches.

If there's evidence that shows Zimmerman was not telling the truth in his report, then he should be punished. But if his report is true I'd say that he had every right to defend himself.

Even if someone is following me and comes up on me with a gun - and I happen to get a one punch in that knocks him to the ground - I'm not going to hang around and continue to slam his head into the ground. I'm going to run like hell.

I'm not perpetuating anything. The weight was in a news report. If they are wrong, they're wrong. I checked just now and the police report reported Trayvon's weight at 160, which everyone else reports at 140 and he was so skinny that people called him Slim. The police report also conveniently did not report Zimmerman's weight at all.

The fact remains, which is verified by the 911 tape that Zimmerman would not have been in a scuffle and Trayvon would not be dead if the pretend cop had left that boy alone.

We've got Trayvon's girlfriend on the phone with him nearly up to the moment he died reporting that some guy was following him and he was scared.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

We don't know that's the way it happened. Besides, even if Trayvon did feel justified in his attack, Zimmerman still had the right to defend himself.

Yes I agree he had the right to defend himself, by perhaps blocking punches, but not to have used deadly force with a firearm.

Let's not forget that Zimmerman was the instigator by pursuing Trayvon in the first place. That was the first act of aggression.

And we don't know if that's the way it went down because Trayvon isn't alive enough to say anything!

Terra

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Yes I agree he had the right to defend himself, by perhaps blocking punches, but not to have used deadly force with a firearm.

Let's not forget that Zimmerman was the instigator by pursuing Trayvon in the first place. That was the first act of aggression.

And we don't know if that's the way it went down because Trayvon isn't alive enough to say anything!

Terra

And we also don't know that it isn't the way it went down. That is for the courts to decide.

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

And we also don't know that it isn't the way it went down. That is for the courts to decide.

Exactly Kim!

Isn't that what I've been saying all along?

Terra
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- KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  Exactly Kim!
  
  Isn't that what I've been saying all along?
  
  Terra
  
  Well Terra, it's also what I have been saying all along too!
  
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  MissTerraK 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Well Terra, it's also what I have been saying all along too!
  
  Imagine that! LOL!
  
  Terra
  
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  KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  Imagine that! LOL!
  
  Terra
  
  Yeah,but you're a good looking woman and I'm an old man, who are they gonna want to believe?
  
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  ThomM 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Yeah,but you're a good looking woman and I'm an old man, who are they gonna want to believe?
  
  Kim not the time to play the senile card
  Besides, that's my game
  
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  KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ThomM
  
  Kim not the time to play the senile card
  Besides, that's my game
  
  Thom,
  just saying old, not dumb and senile. Hell,if you want that card I'll let you hold onto it a while longer.
  
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  ThomM 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Thom,
  just saying old, not dumb and senile. Hell,if you want that card I'll let you hold onto it a while longer.
  
  That's how I started, just saying I was old
  Getting people to believe you're senile isn't to bad.
  You get away with stuff that you couldn't do since you where a little kid.:rolleyes:
  
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  MissTerraK 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Yeah,but you're a good looking woman and I'm an old man, who are they gonna want to believe?
  
  LOL Kim!
  
  Who cares who they believe, we're not the judge and jury, right?
  
  Terra
  
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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

We don't know that's the way it happened. Besides, even if Trayvon did feel justified in his attack, Zimmerman still had the right to defend himself.

Of course he did. But only with an equivalent amount of force. (IMHO)
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- KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson
  
  Of course he did. But only with an equivalent amount of force. (IMHO)
  
  While in theory I agree with you Dave, the law is very clear what force you can use if you are "in fear of your life", and unfortunately the same criteria won't apply to even any of us posting in this thread.
  Tim P could be am Akido master- not scared of anything,same as Terra.
  
  Myself, I am in more fear nowadays than I would have been in the past because A: a sharp blow to my chest can split me open like a clam shell,and those are my Drs words,not mine,and B: A good hit to my stomach/kidney area could either destroy my new kidney and/or literally kill me by making me hemmorage(sp?) interally.
  
  Suzzanne could beat someone to death with her helmet. No one can predict what will cause unreasonable fear in someone else.
  
  I've heard varying reports about both zimmerman and martin. I heard zimmerman was 5'6" and Martin was 6'3". Whether rational or not, he could have actually felt fear for his life.Again, I am not defending any position,just pointing out a proven fact of human nature. Look it up if you don't believe me.
  
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If they don't have the evidence to convict him, why arrest and try him?

Until they do, they need to leave the man alone.

Speculation about Zimmerman's character and motives is useless.

If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, and eyewitness accounts seem to point that way, Zimmerman was within his rights to shoot Trayvon. Innocent until proven guilty still holds.

It really boils down to that.

Ken,
This is really what the question was but I think TL had already sent the PM:

I guess what I meant was...

There are folks in here that don't even want him tried.

- Seasoned said he's being railroaded.

- Kay thanked seasoned's post so I guess she's with the "do not charge & bring to trial crowd".

- Ken Caudill surely doesn't believe he should be charged:

- garyv: Same as above.

- KimW: Who knows???

So I said what he posted wasn't factual so we made a bet where he was going to ask each one of the above named individuals.

If he is right, I'll send $10 to either you or a charity you name and if he is wrong he will do the same.

So, the real question was do you feel he go scott free or that he should be charged?

( I understand your answer but others need clarification).

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

If they don't have the evidence to convict him, why arrest and try him?

Until they do, they need to leave the man alone.

Speculation about Zimmerman's character and motives is useless.

If Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, and eyewitness accounts seem to point that way, Zimmerman was within his rights to shoot Trayvon. Innocent until proven guilty still holds.

It really boils down to that.

I know you're a copywriter but...

Is that a yes or no Ken???

TL

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thedroidproject

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

If you've had a string of burglaries in your neighborhood over several months and police/witnesses have reported that the culprits caught/seen have been black males.

Would you not be especially mindful of unfamiliar black males lurking about in your neighborhood?

That's true...

Plus in several of the calls, the 9-11 operator specifically asks about race. What are you supposed to do but give them the race? In fact NBC has already gotten itself into trouble for editing a 9-11 call where the operator is asking him about the culprits race. They conveniently edit out the part where the operator asks him about the race, and just leave in the part where he says that it's a black person.

And since none of us live in that gated community, there's no possible way of knowing whether or not any white people were even lurking about in the evening times.

I don't think that this man is a racist. He may do profiling based on prior evidence, but that just means that he's not politically correct - that is in most people's opinion playing with the odds - but it's definitely not racist.

If I'm getting reports that white read-headed males are breaking into people's houses, then I'm going to be suspicious any time I see a redheaded kid lurking about at night. That doesn't mean I'm anti-ginger. It just means that I'm concerned for my neighbors.

very well said. its sad but its true...

Posted from Warrior Forum Reader for Android

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KimW

14 years ago

Terra,
I'm lost,who is red?

3M,

LOL, that has always been one of my favorite Groucho lines.

To others too numerous to name, I don't have any thanks left or you would have gotten them!

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Terra,
I'm lost,who is red?

3M,

LOL, that has always been one of my favorite Groucho lines.

To others too numerous to name, I don't have any thanks left or you would have gotten them!

Dumbass.... - YouTube

Terra

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Dumbass.... - YouTube

Terra

Ah, Ok, I think I have seen The 70s Show a total of one time.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Ah, Ok, I think I have seen The 70s Show a total of one time.

Really?

I was a teen in the 70's and can relate to quite a bit of it. I love the show and still watch the reruns.

Terra

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Really?

I was a teen in the 70's and can relate to quite a bit of it. I love the show and still watch the reruns.

Terra

Terra,
I turned 21 in the mid 70's.

I think that decade consisted of 3 things for me, listening to and seeing good music, the partaking of substances which are still illegal, and picking up chicks.( I know chicks isn't a politically correct term,bu that's what we called women back then )
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Kay King

14 years ago

TL thanks. It's rare in discussion like this one to find someone who is able to step back and think "wait minute - now I see what she said!". I appreciate that.

Take the $10 and donate a bag of pet food to your local animal shelter!
I'd love that! Or just donate the money to them if you prefer. Or treat a kid you know to ice cream. Just do something KIND for someone of any color or fur type!

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

TL thanks. It's rare in discussion like this one to find someone who is able to step back and think "wait minute - now I see what she said!". I appreciate that.

Take the $10 and donate a bag of pet food to your local animal shelter!
I'd love that! Or just donate the money to them if you prefer. Or treat a kid you know to ice cream. Just do something KIND for someone of any color or fur type!

AS I just told Dave, I don't have any thanks, but THANKS!

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Red reminds me of....me. (at times)

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Red reminds me of....me. (at times)

LOL Dave!

My son always says that his Dad is just like Red and I am just like Kitty!

Dumba**! Haha!

Terra
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Kim,

I can't get a clear answer out of Ken C.

On whether he thinks Z. should be charged or not.

Maybe you can try.

All I want is a clear yes or no - that's it.

TL

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

(imo) The NRA would much rather prefer people keep arguing the race card, because they don't want 2nd amendment brought back into the fray - it just makes everything 'less messy' for them...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

(imo) The NRA would much rather prefer people keep arguing the race card, because they don't want 2nd amendment brought into the fray - it just makes everything 'less messy' for them...

Probably very true 3M.

Actually last night while looking thru the paper, I saw a 1/4 ad selling guns.
Cheapest one I think was $375 for a Glock.

I almost took a pic and posted it,butt was too lazy.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Probably very true 3M.

Actually last night while looking thru the paper, I saw a 1/4 ad selling guns.
Cheapest one I think was $375 for a Glock.

I almost took a pic and posted it,butt was too lazy.

And I don't know if it is just the way google is profiling me, or what...but I mentioned in an earlier post about a "concealed weapon" newsletter banner...and I have seen that same ad probably 20 times today already...maybe I'm a 'target' due to search...

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

And I don't know if it is just the way google is profiling me, or what...but I mentioned in an earlier post about a "concealed weapon" newsletter banner...and I have seen that same ad probably 20 times today already...maybe I'm a 'target' due to search...

LOL 3M, I've been wondering if I'm a 'target' also. For the past two days, when I click on certain links regarding this, the videos say "it's not available in my area"...wtf?! Haha

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

I saw a former FL prosecutor or defense lawyer who said it was odd that Z. was handcuffed - meaning he was under arrest.

But then Z. was un-arrested - without being charged with anything.

He said that it was very, very odd.

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I saw a former FL prosecutor or defense lawyer who said it was odd that Z. was handcuffed - meaning he was under arrest.

But then Z. was un-arrested - without being charged with anything.

He said that it was very, very odd.

TL

That's not odd at all, I have never seen a cop put someone in a squad car without cuffing them first. Have you?

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

That's not odd at all, I have never seen a cop put someone in a squad car without cuffing them first. Have you?

I'm simply repeating what I clearly heard a FL prosecutor or defense Lawyer say on a
TV show.

The time I got busted for driving without a licence driver ( I had a learner's permit )

I got in the back of the car - without being handcuffed.

This was in NJ.

The cop asked me why I was laying down in the back seat and I told him that I did not want anyone to see me.

He laughed heartily.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I'm simply repeating what I clearly heard a FL prosecutor or defense Lawyer say on a
TV show.

The time I got busted for driving without a licence driver ( I had a learner's permit )

I got in the back of the car - without being handcuffed.

This was in NJ.

The cop asked me why I was laying down in the back seat and I told him that I did not want anyone to see me.

He laughed heartily.

All The Best!!

TL

WOW, you were lucky!!
NJ police are known to be pretty hard nosed.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Here's one of the witnesses on camera early in the situation...

Witness in Trayvon Martin murder fingers police -...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Here's one of the witnesses on camera early in the situation...

Witness in Trayvon Martin murder fingers police - YouTube

Jody already posted a video of this person (by the way,3M thinks she is hot!)

I have issues with her credibility. But I'm sure that doesn't surprise you.

Go back and watch her video that has boh women on it. Several times they contradict themselves in the interview in my opinion.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Jody already posted a video of this person (by the way,3M thinks she is hot!)

I have issues with her credibility. But I'm sure that doesn't surprise you.

Go back and watch her video that has boh women on it. Several times they contradict themselves in the interview in my opinion.

Well, now you're just putting words in my mouth! :p

But this second interview just reconfirms my opinion of the first one. The News Anchors used words like 'gunned down' and 'vigilante' before the video of a witness who exclaims she has not been heard in her testimony - or has been ignored. Again, I only want a fair examination of the situation and that can only happen in a trial. I cannot see how a defense attorney for Zimmerman could not try to have this discredited as prejudicial, or at least ask for a change of venue. Because a case has not been filed, witnesses have not been censored or contained. And as such, the media has been allowed to hold court. (jmo)

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Well, now you're just putting words in my mouth! :p

But this second interview just reconfirms my opinion of the first one. The News Anchors used words like 'gunned down' and 'vigilante' before the video of a witness who exclaims she has not been heard in her testimony - or has been ignored. Again, I only want a fair examination of the situation and that can only happen in a trial. I cannot see how a defense attorney for Zimmerman could not try to have this discredited as prejudicial, or at least ask for a change of venue. Because a case has not been filed, witnesses have not been censored or contained. And as such, the media has been allowed to hold court. (jmo)

I went back 4 pages but couldn't find the psts anymore,but I'm not putting anything in your mouth.You may not have used the word hot,but it was implied :p

I don't know how this person can claim she has not been heard,She is making the rounds on any channel that will have her. I'd love to see her before and after bank account. :rolleyes:

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waterotter

14 years ago

I'd be curious to know what has been done correctly, right from the time police first arrived on the scene.

It's been reported Zimmerman was first interviewed about the shooting by a narcotics officer and not a homicide detective. Come on.....let's do something right.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

I'd be curious to know what has been done correctly, right from the time police first arrived on the scene.

It's been reported Zimmerman was first interviewed about the shooting by a narcotics officer and not a homicide detective. Come on.....let's do something right.

I hear you.

I've seen footage of another witness who said the lead detective told her that he knows it wasn't self defense.

This is the same detective who's request of charging Z. was denied by higher ups.

He is also on record as saying that he's looking forward to the truth coming out.

All The Best!!

TL

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Kay King

14 years ago

Maybe I'm skeptical by nature (ya think?) but the number of "witnesses" now claiming they "know something" has grown along with the publicity of this.

The one thing Zimmerman's brother said in an interview that stuck with me was "George can't understand why people who heard this didn't come out to help".

I didn't that when there was one witness - but now witnesses seem to be coming out of the woodwork and you have to wonder why none of these people called 911 or offered assistance or even called out to see what was going on. I'm afraid some of the recent "witnesses" are too convenient for me.

LOL - I knew the size of the men was going to be a mess when the news reported Trayvon as "6'3" and 140 lbs" - can you say scarecrow???

He may have been 140 lbs in the four year old picture - but not in the photos of him at 6'3". I would expect he's in the 170 range.

Zimmerman's been said to be 5'6" and 5'9" - he's clearly chubby but not obese. Your eyes should tell you that. One report said Zimmerman weighed 250 five years ago - and I wondered "what does that have to do with anything?"

Answer: it had nothing to do with anything...just a fact that people would read and spread as "truth"....seems to have worked.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Maybe I'm skeptical by nature (ya think?) but the number of "witnesses" now claiming they "know something" has grown along with the publicity of this.

The one thing Zimmerman's brother said in an interview that stuck with me was "George can't understand why people who heard this didn't come out to help".

I didn't that when there was one witness - but now witnesses seem to be coming out of the woodwork and you have to wonder why none of these people called 911 or offered assistance or even called out to see what was going on. I'm afraid some of the recent "witnesses" are too convenient for me.

LOL - I knew the size of the men was going to be a mess when the news reported Trayvon as "6'3" and 140 lbs" - can you say scarecrow???

He may have been 140 lbs in the four year old picture - but not in the photos of him at 6'3". I would expect he's in the 170 range.

Zimmerman's been said to be 5'6" and 5'9" - he's clearly chubby but not obese. Your eyes should tell you that. One report said Zimmerman weighed 250 five years ago - and I wondered "what does that have to do with anything?"

Answer: it had nothing to do with anything...just a fact that people would read and spread as "truth"....seems to have worked.

Once again you hit a bullseye Kay.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Kay, I don't for one second give any credibility to Z's brothers interview. After all, Robert Jr's account of the life threatening injuries sustained by his brother doesn't hold any weight when you look at video taken of Z within an hour of the events transpiring.

According to the brother, Z was almost unconscious and out of breath - his head bashed against the cement so many times...., yet Z had no problems getting out of the police cruiser unaided. If he sustained the injuries his brother claims, he should have been taken directly to a hospital, no stops in between. I already posted links to this earlier, explaining the life-threatening injuries, in the thread.

Witnesses - that is another issue altogether. They have been calling law enforcement, trying to give their accounts of what happened. Conveniently, those with crucial information are being ignored.

I also find it a little unsettling that Trayvon, who is dead, had an alcohol/drug test done, yet Zimmerman wasn't tested. Why? Zimmerman was the one with a gun.

I'm almost beginning to think a police officer who shoots an unarmed individual is investigated way beyond what Zimmerman was. Why the special treatment?

There are so many facts and inconsistencies in this case, if there is ever any justice done, I hope this case will serve as a learning tool in police academies. I hope Trayvon didn't have to die in vain.

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waterotter

14 years ago

I have yet to see any evidence suggesting Trayvon was a violent or dangerous person. There is no record of Trayvon being a dangerous individual that we know of. Quite the contrary, I see a young man wanting to become a pilot - I saw an interview with a pilot who spoke of Trayvon's ambitions to become a pilot - here's a young lad that probably would have lead a successful and productive life, given the chance.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

I have yet to see any evidence suggesting Trayvon was a violent or dangerous person. There is no record of Trayvon being a dangerous individual that we know of. Quite the contrary, I see a young man wanting to become a pilot - I saw an interview with a pilot who spoke of Trayvon's ambitions to become a pilot - here's a young lad that probably would have lead a successful and productive life, given the chance.

My niece probably would have led a successful and productive life too.

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

My niece probably would have led a successful and productive life too.

Was she a victim? Did the police do a proper investigation?

Sorry Kim, I don't know the circumstances surrounding her death, nor the outcome if there was a trial.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

Was she a victim? Did the police do a proper investigation?

Sorry Kim, I don't know the circumstances surrounding her death, nor the outcome if there was a trial.

Jody, just sent you a PM about it.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

I have yet to see any evidence suggesting Trayvon was a violent or dangerous person. There is no record of Trayvon being a dangerous individual that we know of. Quite the contrary, I see a young man wanting to become a pilot - I saw an interview with a pilot who spoke of Trayvon's ambitions to become a pilot - here's a young lad that probably would have lead a successful and productive life, given the chance.

Yeah ... Trayvon was described by his teachers as an A and B student, an athlete, and described majoring in cheerfulness by one of his teachers.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Kim,

Hefty means heavy

Fat means plump, fleshy

I don't know if one can be plump without being heavy...

I don't know, it just seems like semantics to me.

Terra

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Kim,

Hefty means heavy

Fat means plump, fleshy

I don't know if one can be plump without being heavy...

I don't know, it just seems like semantics to me.

Terra

Terra, ask your husband what hefty means then ask him what fat means, I will bet you $5 that his opinion is more in line of what I am saying. Maybe it is more a sex difference in interpetation.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Terra, ask your husband what hefty means then ask him what fat means, I will bet you $5 that his opinion is more in line of what I am saying. Maybe it is more a sex difference in interpetation.

Okay Kim.

I asked him and his answers are as follows:

hefty - heavy, fat

fat - huge, obese

But I forgot what point we were going after.

LOL!

Terra

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Okay Kim.

I asked him and his answers are as follows:

hefty - heavy, fat

fat - huge, obese

But I forgot what point we were going after.

LOL!

Terra

You forgot one

hot = Johnny Depp :p

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

You forgot one

hot = Johnny Depp :p

Just to change the subject for a second, do you women know he is playing Barnabas Collins ( I think that is the characters name) in the new movie coming out, Dark Shadows?

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Just to change the subject for a second, do you women know he is playing Barnabas Collins ( I think that is the characters name) in the new movie coming out, Dark Shadows?

Yes ... can't wait to see it. I haven't knowingly missed a Johnny Depp flick.

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yes ... can't wait to see it. I haven't knowingly missed a Johnny Depp flick.

There is a trailer on youtube out. It looks like it's going to be a comedy,not a serious remake.
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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Just to change the subject for a second, do you women know he is playing Barnabas Collins ( I think that is the characters name) in the new movie coming out, Dark Shadows?

Yes, I loved him in every movie he's done, well with the exception of Edward Scissorhands.

I can't wait to see it! I used to watch Dark Shadows everyday after school when I was in the third grade, lol!

Terra

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Okay Kim.

I asked him and his answers are as follows:

hefty - heavy, fat

fat - huge, obese

But I forgot what point we were going after. LOL!

Terra

Terra I think we were going after a glass of wine!
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- MissTerraK 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Terra I think we were going after a glass of wine!
  
  Oh, well then,
  
  Cheers!
  
  Raises glass <clink>
  
  Terra
  
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garyv

14 years ago

Here's also a photo of Trayvon 9 days before the killing - without the baggy clothes....

Look how big he is compare to the lady he's standing next to. Notice the neck and arms - This is a football player - and I guarantee you he could one-punch a grown man.

Don't be fooled by the media portrayal. If this kid is playing highschool level football at 17 years of age anywhere in the state of Florida, then he's by no means a wimp. Anyone that has played Jr/Sr level football in the South can attest to the fact that the strength training involved is intense.

And if you watch the video of Zimmerman in motion - you'll see that he's not fat...

He may have a small pudge - but that would just prove that he's probably not in as good of shape as Trayvon.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Here's also a photo of Trayvon 9 days before the killing - without the baggy clothes....

Look how big he is compare to the lady he's standing next to. Notice the neck and arms - This is a football player - and I guarantee you he could one-punch a grown man.

Don't be fooled by the media portrayal. If this kid is playing highschool level football at 17 years of age anywhere in the state of Florida, then he's by no means a wimp. Anyone that has played Jr/Sr level football in the South can attest to the fact that the strength training involved is intense.

And if you watch the video of Zimmerman in motion - you'll see that he's not fat...

He may have a small pudge - but that would just prove that he's probably not in as good of shape as Trayvon.

Gary, I also was going to point out that a poster mentioned he was an athlete. He can't be the skinny wimpy kid they want to portray and also an athlete.

and baggy clothes hide the actual physical aspects of an individual,you can't determine how strong someone is if they are in baggy clothes.
And while they want to say zimmerman was in better shape that martin,who again,towered over him, he is certainly no husky in shape person.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Here's also a photo of Trayvon 9 days before the killing - without the baggy clothes....

Look how big he is compare to the lady he's standing next to. Notice the neck and arms - This is a football player - and I guarantee you he could one-punch a grown man.

Don't be fooled by the media portrayal. If this kid is playing highschool level football at 17 years of age anywhere in the state of Florida, then he's by no means a wimp. Anyone that has played Jr/Sr level football in the South can attest to the fact that the strength training involved is intense.

Nice looking kid. Yeah, he's tall much like my family is. He's an athlete. Maybe even could have been a star athlete. No match for a guy with a gun though. One bang ...you're dead.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Nice looking kid. Yeah, he's tall much like my family is. He's an athlete. Maybe even could have been a star athlete. No match for a guy with a gun though. One bang ...you're dead.

But easily strong enough to bash in the head of a guy without a gun.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

But easily strong enough to bash in the head of a guy without a gun.

But he's never been accused of bashing in the head of a guy without a gun and by the looks of Zimmerman on that tape right after he shot Trayvon, he didn't bash in his head either. That would have required some serious medical attention for Zimmerman and he didn't even have a bandaid on him.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

But he's never been accused of bashing in the head of a guy without a gun and by the looks of Zimmerman on that tape right after he shot Trayvon, he didn't bash in his head either. That would have required some serious medical attention for Zimmerman and he didn't even have a bandaid on him.

Not being argumentive, but Dave (I think it was dave) posted he saw a new video today that had a better view of his head and it did indeed show injury.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Not being argumentive, but Dave (I think it was dave) posted he saw a new video today that had a better view of his head and it did indeed show injury.

Yeah ... I read the report that they enhanced the video and an abrasion is visible on the back of his head. It's pretty obvious there was some kind of scuffle because at least one eye witness saw them both on the ground.

But Zimmerman's injury was fairly minor since no one put a bandage on it and it is difficult to spot in the video.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah ... I read the report that they enhanced the video and an abrasion is visible on the back of his head. It's pretty obvious there was some kind of scuffle because at least one eye witness saw them both on the ground.

But Zimmerman's injury was fairly minor since no one put a bandage on it and it is difficult to spot in the video.

To be honest, that video clip looked clearer than the one I saw because of the slo-mo, and I still could not be absolutely certain. It could just be because his hair is cut so short - but then again, if it weren't, we probably could not see any mark at all. In the enhanced video still Kim showed above he appears to have two darker marks on his head. It is the most defined shot of this I have seen so far. But it also shows he was handcuffed, which suggests he was taken into custody, and not just brought in "for questioning". He just wasn't booked.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

But he's never been accused of bashing in the head of a guy without a gun and by the looks of Zimmerman on that tape right after he shot Trayvon, he didn't bash in his head either. That would have required some serious medical attention for Zimmerman and he didn't even have a bandaid on him.

Yes that's true - because Zimmerman pulled his gun out before it could be bashed in.

And recent enhancements of the video do show what looks like could be a gash on his head. So the evidence is still out on what could have really happened.

Zimmerman Video HD (ENHANCED) - YouTube

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Yes that's true - because Zimmerman pulled his gun out before it could be bashed in.

And recent enhancements of the video do show what looks like could be a gash on his head. So the evidence is still out on what could have really happened.

Zimmerman Video HD (ENHANCED) - YouTube

I'd like to watch it, but out here with the cows and chickens on my tethered DroidX, it takes a long time for videos to load.

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garyv 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

I'd like to watch it, but out here with the cows and chickens on my tethered DroidX, it takes a long time for videos to load.

Here's what the enhanced video shows...
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- sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by garyv
  
  Here's what the enhanced video shows...
  
  Thanks for taking the screenshot. I see it now.
  
  Thanks
  
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- KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by garyv
  
  Here's what the enhanced video shows...
  
  Looks like abrasions to me, but then, I'm no expert, I won't be testifying in court.
  
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waterotter 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

But easily strong enough to bash in the head of a guy without a gun.

I've clearly lost your point of view - this/your point - Zimmerman had a gun - Trayvon didn't.

Please explain what I'm missing here.......thanks.
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- KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by waterotter
  
  I've clearly lost your point of view - this/your point - Zimmerman had a gun - Trayvon didn't.
  
  Please explain what I'm missing here.......thanks.
  
  It's easy Jody, he is saying that if martin tried he could cause serious harm,and that is Z's defense...self defense,and the claim is martin was bashing his head against the concrete sidewalk.
  And on top of that, as I just also noted in another post, I think it was Dave that posted (actually maybe it was 3M,I'm not sure) that they had seen a new video that showed that Zimmerman's head did show signs of injury. What extent of injury I can't say.
  
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- garyv 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by waterotter
  
  I've clearly lost your point of view - this/your point - Zimmerman had a gun - Trayvon didn't.
  
  Please explain what I'm missing here.......thanks.
  
  My point is that the claim is still "self defense" - And when Zimmerman was struggling to get to his gun, he was getting his head bashed against the sidewalk. If that claim is true - then Zimmerman would have been the one found dead on the sidewalk if not for his gun.
  
  And if his claim is true, (and that's only IF it's true) that his head was being bashed against the sidewalk, then I say lucky him for having a gun.
  
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I find that hard to believe. I am almost 40 years older than what Trayvon was and I guarantee you he couldn't do what you are saying. Trayvon was not strong enough to give this guy the beating Z said. That's just my opinion of course. But it's as good anyone's. Even if Z was getting his ass kicked he should have taken it like a man since he was responsible for it in the first place imo. Pulling out a gun in this instance was wrong. Period! People get beat up every day even when they are perfectly innocent and they don't usually shoot the other person.

I also question how Z would have been able to pull out his gun while this supposed beating was going on. To me, it makes more sense he pushed him off and then pulled out his gun. ( Especially since Z didn't have any blood on him ) Then Trayvon started screaming. Mr Z, having lost control, which he has done before ( he has been accused of hitting women ) was so scared and incensed, he may have just shot Trayvon in cold blood. This is why who was screaming is important. If it was Trayvon, Mr Z is guilty imo. If not, he still is. Not fair? So what. Z put himself in this position.

Originally Posted by garyv

But easily strong enough to bash in the head of a guy without a gun.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I find that hard to believe. I am almost 40 years older than what Trayvon was and I guarantee you he couldn't do what you are saying.

You're extremely naive then. No offense - but I've watched enough fights in my lifetime to know for a fact that he could have done it. I've seen kids half the size of Trayvon beat adults to unconsciousness.

I refuse to believe that you're this naive - Now I have to believe that you're just being stubborn for the sake of arguing.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

In my opinion, this boy, from his looks was not a fighter or all that strong. The fact you think his rail thin arms are big makes me think you are being argumentative.

Originally Posted by garyv

You're extremely naive then. No offense - but I've watched enough fights in my lifetime to know for a fact that he could have done it. I've seen kids half the size of Trayvon beat adults to unconsciousness.

I refuse to believe that you're this naive - Now I have to believe that you're just being stubborn for the sake of arguing.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

In my opinion, this boy, from his looks was not a fighter or all that strong. The fact you think his rail thin arms are big makes me think you are being argumentative.

That's ok - anyone with 2 eyes can see that this young man's shoulders and biceps are big for his age and height. I'd wager a paycheck that he could of taken on 80% of the adult males in Florida.

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

With all due respect guys, adrenaline gives amazing strength!

I know of a skinny, lanky basketball player that lifted a van off of his team mate when they were involved in a roll over accident due to slippery roads.

I imagine in this incident both Zimmerman and Trayvon's adrenaline levels were running high.

So, does size, girth, strength, weight and height really even matter here?

Terra
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

So, you have seen 75 pound kids beat adults unconscious? This seems like just another exaggeration Gary. Let's try to be more logical here.

Originally Posted by garyv

I've seen kids half the size of Trayvon beat adults to unconsciousness.

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

So, you have seen 75 pound kids beat adults unconscious? This seems like just another exaggeration Gary. Let's try to be more logical here.

He said size,not weight Tim.
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- TimPhelan 14 years ago
  
  OK. So he is saying 3'1" and 75 pounds?
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  He said size,not weight Tim.
  
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  KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  OK. So he is saying 3'1" and 75 pounds?
  
  LOL, that almost made me spew at the screen!
  10 points for Tim!
  
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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

So, you have seen 75 pound kids beat adults unconscious? This seems like just another exaggeration Gary. Let's try to be more logical here.

You probably haven't been in a public school lately. It happens more than you think. Here's just a recent example:

Latest Videos « CBS Philly

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Hmmm,

At the risk of being ignored again

...

Do you guys have any opinions on my post?

With all due respect guys, adrenaline gives amazing strength!

I know of a skinny, lanky basketball player that lifted a van off of his team mate when they were involved in a roll over accident due to slippery roads.

I imagine in this incident both Zimmerman and Trayvon's adrenaline levels were running high.

So, does size, girth, strength, weight and height really even matter here?

Terra

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Hmmm,

At the risk of being ignored again

...

Do you guys have any opinions on my post?

Sorry Terra,
Once you mentioned girth I left this one for others to answer.
I didn't want to make anyone feel bad.

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Sorry Terra,
Once you mentioned girth I left this one for others to answer.
I didn't want to make anyone feel bad.

LOL Kim!

What am I missing? Doesn't girth mean the distance around someone's waist? :confused:

Terra
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

This thread is about the trademark "I am Trayvon". So, who was Trayvon?

"I am Trayvon Martin" has become the catchphrase for protesters expressing solidarity with the slain Florida teenager and outrage over his killing. Even President Barack Obama declared, "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon."

But who really was Trayvon Martin? There is plenty of speculation, including some bloggers who point to his recent school suspensions -- including for drug residue in his backpack -- and images of him sporting tattoos and a what appeared to be a gold tooth grill as possible evidence of a troubled teen.

That portrayal is in stark contrast to the accounts from his family, friends, and teachers who described Martin as an average 17-year-old.

"He was a shy kid," said family friend and former football coach Jerome Horton. "He didn't want to be the center of attention; that's just not him.

"He always walked with his hoodie and his headphones," recalled Horton. "If he wasn't on the phone, he was listening to music -- anyone that knows him knows that."

Just like most any other teenager, Martin enjoyed listening to music -- R&B was his favorite -- going to the movies and the roller rink with his friends, friends and family said. When Martin entered high school, his childhood goals of a career on the football field were replaced with his dreams of working with airplanes.

"He just loves getting on planes," said his father Tracy Martin.

During the summer of 2009, his parents -- who separated when Martin was 11, but shared custody -- enrolled their 14-year-old son in "Experience Aviation," a nonprofit program in Opa-Locka, Florida, that introduces young people to aviation.

The seven-week program is the brainchild of Barrington Irving, the youngest person ever -- and the first black pilot -- to fly solo around the world, a feat he accomplished in 2007 at the age of 23.

Irving remembered Martin as "a polite kid" who enjoyed flying.
"When I first met Trayvon he had a strong interest in football. He reminded me of myself because I had a strong interest in football until I fell in love with aviation," said Irving.
After graduating from the program, Martin spent the following summer as a volunteer, assisting new students enrolled in the aviation program.

During high school, Martin also volunteered his time at the concession stand at Forzano Park where he played football since age 5, on a team coached by Horton and his father.
"He would literally go to school and from school he would go to the park to volunteer to maybe about 8, 9 o'clock and go home," said Horton. "That was Trayvon's day, his week."
Martin's mother transferred him from Miami's Carol City High School to Dr. Michael M. Krop High School, closer to her home.

"He was doing average in school, a little bit better when he was at Carol City and then I had him transferred,'' Sybrina Fulton said, according to the Miami Herald. "I thought Krop was a better school and I wanted a different environment for him. My oldest son has graduated from there.''

In his junior year at Krop, Martin's favorite subject was math, according to his father.

"He was just an average student," he said.

At Krop, Martin was suspended three times, according to records obtained by the Miami Herald, once for writing graffiti on a door and another time for school truancy. The third suspension took place the week of his death. Martin was suspended for 10 days due to drug residue being found in his backpack.

In an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, Sybrina Fulton responded to her son's suspension: "Whatever he had dealings with the school, it was not criminal, it was not violent, he's never been arrested."

Darrell Green, a fellow football player and close friend, said Martin was no different from any other teen.

"Everybody gets in trouble," said Green, "Everybody goes through it."

Green remembered Martin as a "positive person" and a "good friend."

During the 10-day suspension, Tracy Martin took his son with him to Sanford, about four hours away from Miami, while he visited his fiancée because neither he nor Fulton wanted their son to stay in his hometown where he could enjoy his friends, said Horton, who has been in close contact with Martin's father.

"He wasn't just suspended from school and up at Sanford kicking it and having a good time," said Horton. Martin had only been to Sanford a handful of times.

His fateful walk to the convenience store for a bag of Skittles and an iced tea on the evening of February 26 happened only because the teenager pleaded to leave the apartment, said Horton.
"The only reason he got a chance to go to the store is because he begged his dad to go," he said. At the time, his father and his fiancée had gone out to dinner and to watch a basketball game, leaving Martin at the townhouse, according to Martin family spokesman Ryan Julison.

While walking to the store, Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend, whom he had been talking to for over 6½ hours throughout the day, the family's attorney said, citing phone records. The girl, who did not want to be identified, said she told Martin to run, but he refused, the family attorney said.

"What are you stopping me for?" Martin asked a man later identified as neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman, according to the girl.

"What are you doing around here?" Zimmerman asked in response.

Protesters declare 'I am Trayvon Martin,' but who was he? - CNN.com

I think that that last part pretty much shows that after Z was told to not follow Trayvon he still did. I believe the girlfriend first, above Mr Z, who said basically Trayvon jumped him from behind while walking away.

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Kay King

14 years ago

Tim - The link I gave above had a very good - and unbaised - description of who Trayvon was...and who Zimmerman was. Once again - they both seems like good people.

Think about this: I've seen you and a couple others declare what "must be" the real story based on "looks". He doesn't look like he could do it - he looks like just a kid....Zimmerman looks big....looks mean....doesn't look hurt...etc.

If you base an opinion on how someone looks - without knowing who they are...how is that different from racism?

(I don't mean "you" personally - just people in general.)

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I read that story Kay and thanked you for posting it.

I don't recall me saying "must be" about anything in this story based on "looks". This quote especially seems unfamiliar to me: "He doesn't look like he could do it". "he looks like just a kid". Well, yeah, he was a kid. Only 17. To me that's a kid. "Zimmerman looks big....looks mean". That wasn't me I don't think. I did mention Z got in trouble for violence in the past for hitting his fiancee and a co worker said he threw a drunk woman around. "Doesn't look hurt". Yeah, I probably said that. But if you are asking how that is different from racism, all I can say is: your question doesn't make sense because I haven't based my opinion of Z on his looks, except to say I think he looked stronger or as strong as Trayvon.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Tim - The link I gave above had a very good - and unbaised - description of who Trayvon was...and who Zimmerman was. Once again - they both seems like good people.

Think about this: I've seen you and a couple others declare what "must be" the real story based on "looks". He doesn't look like he could do it - he looks like just a kid....Zimmerman looks big....looks mean....doesn't look hurt...etc.

If you base an opinion on how someone looks - without knowing who they are...how is that different from racism?

(I don't mean "you" personally - just people in general.)

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

This thread is about the trademark "I am Trayvon". So, who was Trayvon?

Protesters declare 'I am Trayvon Martin,' but who was he? - CNN.com

I think that that last part pretty much shows that after Z was told to not follow Trayvon he still did. I believe the girlfriend first, above Mr Z, who said basically Trayvon jumped him from behind while walking away.

The girlfriend was NOT a witness! She could NOT truthfully say what happened

Steve

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

This thread is about the trademark "I am Trayvon". So, who was Trayvon?

Protesters declare 'I am Trayvon Martin,' but who was he? - CNN.com

I think that that last part pretty much shows that after Z was told to not follow Trayvon he still did. I believe the girlfriend first, above Mr Z, who said basically Trayvon jumped him from behind while walking away.

Already seen it and thought it had already been posted here.

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

You probably haven't been in a public school lately. It happens more than you think. Here's just a recent example:

Latest Videos « CBS Philly

And that is not an isolated incident.
People seem to forget that this generation has a large segment that Love to fight,love to bully,and love to actually film it and show it off like its something awesome. I recently saw a video of a huge fight in a McDonalds and there must have been 20 people standing around and taking videos with their cell phones instead of trying to stop the thing.
A sick society we are in.
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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

This is why who was screaming is important. If it was Trayvon, Mr Z is guilty imo. If not, he still is. Not fair? So what. Z put himself in this position.

That's exactly the way I feel. Zimmerman is the instigator. If he had not followed Trayvon as the dispatcher told him, nothing would have happened to anyone. Zimmerman had no justification for following Trayvon. All he could come up with to describe suspicious activity in the 911 tape is walking and looking around.

I have a hunch that the homeowner's association will get sued to kingdom come over this in a civil suit. They had Zimmerman's name on their newsletter as a go-to guy, from one report, so they will be held responsible.
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I find that hard to believe. I am almost 40 years older than what Trayvon was and I guarantee you he couldn't do what you are saying. Trayvon was not strong enough to give this guy the beating Z said. That's just my opinion of course. But it's as good anyone's. Even if Z was getting his ass kicked he should have taken it like a man since he was responsible for it in the first place imo. Pulling out a gun in this instance was wrong. Period! People get beat up every day even when they are perfectly innocent and they don't usually shoot the other person.

I also question how Z would have been able to pull out his gun while this supposed beating was going on. To me, it makes more sense he pushed him off and then pulled out his gun. ( Especially since Z didn't have any blood on him ) Then Trayvon started screaming. Mr Z, having lost control, which he has done before ( he has been accused of hitting women ) was so scared and incensed, he may have just shot Trayvon in cold blood. This is why who was screaming is important. If it was Trayvon, Mr Z is guilty imo. If not, he still is. Not fair? So what. Z put himself in this position.

Damn TIm, I was alwaays of the opinion you were alot younger than me,never thought for a minute you were close to may age!

Of course the part I have to disagree with you on is if it is in fact Z screaming because he was getting his head bashed in then protecting yourself by any means possible is the law in Florida. Maybe not a good law and maybe it should be changed like yesterday,but it is still the law.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Really!? I can't see any muscle on those arms. Yes, those are the arms of a football player: a placekicker.

Originally Posted by garyv

Look how big he is compare to the lady he's standing next to. Notice the neck and arms - This is a football player - and I guarantee you he could one-punch a grown man.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Really!? I can't see any muscle on those arms. Yes, those are the arms of a football player: a placekicker.

This kid's shoulders and neck are large - If you don't see muscle there, then you just don't know what muscle looks like lol. Believe me, as a father that has coached many a football game, I'd take this kid on my team in a heart-beat. I guarantee you this young man is pure muscle - otherwise there would be no football for him at his age.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Do your teams have a winning record? Just wondering.

Originally Posted by garyv

This kid's shoulders and neck are large - If you don't see muscle there, then you just don't know what muscle looks like lol. Believe me, as a father that has coached many a football game, I'd take this kid on my team in a heart-beat. I guarantee you this young man is pure muscle - otherwise there would be no football for him at his age.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Do your teams have a winning record? Just wondering.

Actually our Seniors were one game away from going to state last year - so yeah I guess you could say we have a winning record.

- And if Trayvon were on our team he would have easily been one of the top 3 biggest players.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I'm assuming by "big" you mean tall? If not, those kids in your state need to join 24 hour fitness or something because I don't see this kid as being someone known for strength.

Originally Posted by garyv

Actually our Seniors were one game away from going to state last year - so yeah I guess you could say we have a winning record.

- And if Trayvon were on our team he would have easily been one of the top 3 biggest players.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I'm assuming by "big" you mean tall? If not, those kids in your state need to join 24 hour fitness or something because I don't see this kid as being someone known for strength.

Again - showing extreme naivety.

He's almost exactly the same size weight and dimensions as Cassius Clay when he won the Olympic Gold medal in boxing.

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Again - showing extreme naivety.

He's almost exactly the same size weight and dimensions as Cassius Clay when he won the Olympic Gold medal in boxing.

Hey, no fair using facts I already presented!

But you are correct from several reports I have seen and heard.

When I was young I was skinny and looked like I couldn't take anyone in a fight, There were a lot of people that were surprised.
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Lordy!! ( smacking my head ). LOL. You are really reaching here dude! Get a grip please.

Originally Posted by garyv

He's almost exactly the same size weight and dimensions as Cassius Clay when he won the Olympic Gold medal in boxing.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Lordy!! ( smacking my head ). LOL. You are really reaching here dude! Get a grip please.

Tim,
Research it if you don't agree.
I have seen it said also from several different sources.
I also posted it earlier but when I did I said I was not going to take the time to actually find out.

Actually, I can find that the height IS the same, but I don't see weight anywhere.

Ok, not sure if this is correct,but I located at Ask.com the answer that Clay weighed weighed 175 when he fought at the Olympics. That would be 15 pounds heavier than what matin has been reported to weigh.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

It's the "dimensions" part which I laugh at Kim. Ali was one of the most fit boxers ever at that age. He was strong and also extremely fit. I know these two don't come close to comparing when talking about "dimensions". Dimensions means more than height and weight.

Originally Posted by KimW

Tim,
Research it if you don't agree.
I have seen it said also from several different sources.
I also posted it earlier but when I did I said I was not going to take the time to actually find out.

Actually, I can find that the height IS the same, but I don't see weight anywhere.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's the "dimensions" part which I laugh at Kim. Ali was one of the most fit boxers ever at that age. He was strong and also extremely fit. I know these two don't come close to comparing when talking about "dimensions". Dimensions means more than height and weight.

That may be true.
I personally feel the fittest person I have ever seen was Bruce Lee. He was not big physically, but he was extremely fit.
So many people thought his one inch punch was faked but it wasn't.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Here's the big question for me Kim. Seriously. If this guy was so clear to death that he couldn't push him off, couldn't stop him from banging his head on the ground anymore although he tried so hard, how could he pull the gun on him? Well, there's a second part of that question: how could he pull the gun on him, while so close to death, and then somehow avoid ANY blood at all on his shirt and jacket, and then miraculously feels so much better that he didn't need an ambulance and a half hour later walked into the police station looking like nothing ever happened?

Originally Posted by KimW

That may be true.
I personally feel the fittest person I have ever seen was Bruce Lee. He was not big physically, but he was extremely fit.
So many people thought his one inch punch was faked but it wasn't.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Here's the big question for me Kim. Seriously. If this guy was so clear to death that he couldn't push him off, couldn't stop him from banging his head on the ground anymore although he tried so hard, how could he pull the gun on him? Well, there's a second part of that question: how could he pull the gun on him, while so close to death, and then somehow avoid ANY blood at all on his shirt and jacket, and then miraculously feels so much better that he didn't need an ambulance and a half hour later walked into the police station looking like nothing ever happened?

As you know Tim, I'm basically playing devil's advocate because I d think he is guilty of minimum manslaughter at least.But I CAN answer that question logically,
1: How could he pull the gun on him? The accounts I have heard,and I don't even attempt to vouch for their truthfulness but bring them up only for the sake of this discussion,is that the gun was in his pants/belt area If that was the case and I was struggling with someone banging me,I would normally be trying to grab his arms to stop that,and if that didn't work and I did have a gun in my wasteband,then I would take my hand and grab that gun.

I don't necessarily go with the description "so close to death" because its such a nebulus description.But He could be tired and out of breathe and in pain and still pull the weapon. Now the next question.
How come no blood.
I don't know where the victim was shot at ,but there are many things that can factor into this. One, when one is shot it is NOT like you see on tv where it either A) splatters all over or B) where its pours out like a water hose running full blast.
If he was under martin, I personally think there should be blood on him, but for the sake of discussion, he could shoot, victim is so stunned he stops moving and Z pushes him off before blood can drip on him.
2nd scenerio I have heard is that Z shot while standing over him in which case there would be no blood but it would also invalidate his defense imo.
I would say he had plenty of time to recover from almost anything by the time they got him to the station,don't forget he also received medical attention while waiting ( at least thats what they reported).
But I can't agree that he looked like nothing happened.
Especially with the new film that DOES show what appears to be head injuries.

If there weren't so many factors involved it would be an open and shut case imo, but there are too many to just say it is A,B,C.

Again, I have stated my personal opinion, but that doesn't mean I am not going to keep discussing what I think are important details.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

That may be true.
I personally feel the fittest person I have ever seen was Bruce Lee. He was not big physically, but he was extremely fit.
So many people thought his one inch punch was faked but it wasn't.

Yeah, MOST martial arts fighters, especially ones from decades ago, looked realatively thin. But they practised for speed, dexterity and quick strength(fast twitch), NOT size and slow strength(slow twitch).

Steve

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

That may be true.
I personally feel the fittest person I have ever seen was Bruce Lee. He was not big physically, but he was extremely fit.
So many people thought his one inch punch was faked but it wasn't.

I know there have been several other posts regarding size, strength, etc. - and I'm only using this as example, but should we, or could anyone, compare the physical prowess of an Olympic Boxing champion at 170lbs, or a 130lb Martial Arts Master capable of easily doing 100 pushups on his fingertips ? Both Ali and Lee are extraordinary athletes.

Compared to the two people involved in this case?

What we appear to have here, at best and worst - is two individuals fueled by fear and adrenaline, who, when confronted, acted unpredictably, irrationally, and illogically, with tragic consequences.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

I know there have been several other posts regarding size, strength, etc. - and I'm only using this as example, but should we, or could anyone, compare the physical prowess of an Olympic Boxing champion at 170lbs, or a 130lb Martial Arts Master capable of easily doing 100 pushups on his fingertips ? Both Ali and Lee are extraordinary athletes.

Compared to the two people involved in this case?

What we appear to have here, at best and worst - is two individuals fueled by fear and adrenaline, who, when confronted, acted unpredictably, irrationally, and illogically, with tragic consequences.

Actually 3M, maybe I was't clear .I was really just saying he,Bruce lee was the fittest person I had ever seen in my opinion, I was not comparing him to anyone,especially in this situation.

But I was saying that reports claimed he was the same height and weight as Clay was when he won the Olympic medals, but in no way am I implying he was the same in physical fitness.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Actually 3M, maybe I was't clear .I was really just saying he,Bruce lee was the fittest person I had ever seen in my opinion, I was not comparing him to anyone,especially in this situation.

But I was saying that reports claimed he was the same height and weight as Clay was when he won the Olympic medals, but in no way am I implying he was the same in physical fitness.

I know Kim, it wasn't directed at your post specifically, I was just using that one for citing. I didn't know how Lee got into the mix other than for comparison, but I knew Clay/Ali had been mentioned as a size/wgt/ comparison in a story, and it appeard it was going apples to oranges...I knew you weren't comparing them in prowess, it just seemed with talk of MMA, etc. some posts (not yours) were going there. (and Lee was a fit bugger, no doubt about that)

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Kay King

14 years ago

If Z. was such a nice guy, why did he do what he did???

It's a normal question people ask - and it indicates intent because we want to think there is a good guy and a bad guy and thus justice will win out.

It's often not like that. Two good people end up in the same place and something unforeseen happens and harm is done. It wasn't intended and wasn't planned - but it changed one life and ended another.

The only thing that counts in the case is the positioning and actions of those two individuals in one 3-5 minute span of time - nothing else.

Back to the THREAD title here - found this on several sites sites today where people are selling things and donating to this cause:

a fundraising effort led by his parents entitled Justice for Trayvon Martin with the proceeds going to “the family to cover the advocacy and other costs associated with the pursuit of justice on behalf of their son.”

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's the "dimensions" part which I laugh at Kim. Ali was one of the most fit boxers ever at that age. He was strong and also extremely fit. I know these two don't come close to comparing when talking about "dimensions". Dimensions means more than height and weight.

And if you don't think that this kid was extremely fit, then you haven't been reading the reports. The kid was a High-school Football player in the State of Florida. And he was 17 years old, so that means he was at least at the Jr varsity level. That means a daily regimen of weight training and calisthenics - Now I'm not saying that he was the strongest kid in the world, but I'm not naive enough to think that he couldn't take on a grown man. Especially if the scuffle started off with a one-punch to the nose.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Hey, Granny from The Beverley Hillbillies could catch me with an unexpected punch, but I don't think I would shoot her because of that. Anyways, where is the blood from the shot while being hopelessly pummeled?

Originally Posted by garyv

Now I'm not saying that he was the strongest kid in the world, but I'm not naive enough to think that he couldn't take on a grown man. Especially if the scuffle started off with a one-punch to the nose.

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waterotter

14 years ago

What the heck is going on here? Now we have another dead victim - circumstances are completely different except for the fact the victim was unarmed.

Has someone designated March/April as a killing spree on blacks???

I know, I'm a little more p*ssed off when I hear and read these stories as they unfold.

Another Trayvon Martin? Young, Unarmed, Black Teenager Shot by Cops in California - The Daily Beast

Wake up America - change your damn laws - they don't seem to protect the innocent, rather, it seems they protect the perpetrator. :confused:

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

What the heck is going on here? Now we have another dead victim - circumstances are completely different except for the fact the victim was unarmed.

Has someone designated March/April as a killing spree on blacks???

I know, I'm a little more p*ssed off when I hear and read these stories as they unfold.

Another Trayvon Martin? Young, Unarmed, Black Teenager Shot by Cops in California - The Daily Beast

Wake up America - change your damn laws - they don't seem to protect the innocent, rather, it seems they protect the perpetrator. :confused:

Note the sansationalism headline though Jody.
Yet you say the circumstances are different. This is the media for you.
As far as the laws being changed,I can't speak for others but I actively seek that. I am in constant contact with my congressman's office ( I'm sure ,like some here,they don't like me) , but who cares?

People are killed here every day. unarmed kids on their way home. Or to the store,or in their friggin classroom trying to learn and get ahead. While martin's death is sad, he isn't the only child killed in America and he won't be the last until things are changed. There is no question in my mind our laws not only need a change,they need a friggin overhaul.
We currently have more people in jail for nonviolent crimes than any other country.The majority are for pot. Absolutely rediculous.

I don't know about Canada, but my country is going down the crapper fast.

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KimW

14 years ago

Can we stop making things about race??
What about the koreans killed yeterday??
Of course it was another korean that did it if I have the facts right.

7 dead in shooting at Korean Christian university in Oakland, Calif.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Can we stop making things about race??
What about the koreans killed yeterday??
Of course it was another korean that did it if I have the facts right.

7 dead in shooting at Korean Christian university in Oakland, Calif.

Yep...and then there's this...Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy' - New York Daily News

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Yep...and then there's this...Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy' - New York Daily News

EXACTLY Dave!!

The only ones that want to make it a race issue are the ones that want to keep splitting Americans apart.

All any should be concerned about is 1: a child got killed,and by legal definition,whether he is big or small, he is still a child in the eyes of the law, and that the person responsible be held accountable within the legal limits of the law.
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- TimPhelan 14 years ago
  
  Hefty is what a fat guy refers to himself to appear that he has some muscle and not just fat. Looking at Mr Z he looked to have some muscle and I would think from what I can tell was stronger than the extremely thin Trayvon. Of course this really has no bearing on the case at all.
  
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KimW

14 years ago

Oh,and here are the definitions per Dictionary.com

husk·y1 [huhs-kee] Show IPA adjective, husk·i·er, husk·i·est. noun, plural husk·ies.
adjective
1.
big and strong; burly.
2.
(of the voice) having a semiwhispered vocal tone; somewhat hoarse, as when speaking with a cold or from grief or passion.
3.
like, covered with, or full of husks.
4.
made in a size meant for the larger or heavier than average boy: size 18 husky pants.
5.
for, pertaining to, or wearing clothing in this size: the husky department; husky boys.
noun
6.
a size of garments meant for the larger or heavier than average boy.

And Now,Fat:

fat [fat] Show IPA adjective, fat·ter, fat·test, noun, verb, fat·ted, fat·ting.
adjective
1.
having too much flabby tissue; corpulent; obese: a fat person.
2.
plump; well-fed: a good, fat chicken.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

The word used was hefty, not husky. Big difference!

Originally Posted by KimW

Oh,and here are the definitions per Dictionary.com

husk·y1 [huhs-kee] Show IPA adjective, husk·i·er, husk·i·est. noun, plural husk·ies.
adjective...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

The word used was hefty, not husky. Big difference!

My bad for looking up the wrong word and posting the wrong definition.
Thank you for pointing out my error for the real word 's definition proves my point even more

:

heft·y [hef-tee] Show IPA
adjective, heft·i·er, heft·i·est.
1.
heavy; weighty: a hefty book.
2.
big and strong; powerful; muscular: a hefty athlete.
3.
impressively large or substantial: a hefty increase in salary.

zimmerman is definitely not THAT definition by any stretch of means.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

OK, try doing a image search for "hefty man". Here it is. I rest my case!

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...9267l9l9l0l0l0

Originally Posted by KimW

My bad for looking up the wrong word and posting the wrong definition.
Thank you for pointing out my error for the real word 's definition proves my point even more

:

heft·y [hef-tee] Show IPA
adjective, heft·i·er, heft·i·est.
1.
heavy; weighty: a hefty book.
2.
big and strong; powerful; muscular: a hefty athlete.
3.
impressively large or substantial: a hefty increase in salary.

zimmerman is definitely not THAT definition by any stretch of means.

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

OK, try doing a image search for "hefty man". Here it is. I rest my case!

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...9267l9l9l0l0l0

As an artist you know that images don't always reflect the true meaning of words.
I rest my case.

but for truth in advertising here also is fat:
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isc...w=1600&bih=854

And here is husky: suprisingly enough there are a lot of husky men that has martin's physical stature.

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isc...w=1600&bih=854
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- MissTerraK 14 years ago
  
  As an artist you know that images don't always reflect the true meaning of words.
  I rest my case.
  
  I have to agree with you Kim, here, haha!
  
  This is not hefty, this is just wrong!! LOL!
  
  Terra
  
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  sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  I have to agree with you Kim, here, haha!
  
  This is not hefty, this is just wrong!! LOL!
  
  Terra
  
  lol ... that's disgusting
  
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  KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  I have to agree with you Kim, here, haha!
  
  This is not hefty, this is just wrong!! LOL!
  
  Terra
  
  Hey, whay are you bringing Kevin Riley into this??
  
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  MissTerraK 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Hey, whay are you bringing Kevin Riley into this??
  
  Haha!
  
  It was in the images under hefty that Tim posted.
  
  Sorry Kevin, heehee!
  
  Terra
  
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KimW

14 years ago

"Hefty is what a fat guy refers to himself to appear that he has some muscle and not just fat."
Absolutely true and the point I was making that hefty IS fat.

Actually Tim the latest picture with out his baggy clothes show that he is NOT "he extremely thin Trayvon".

He was an athlete.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Latest on Zimmerman...

George Zimmerman ready to surrender, if charged - CSMonitor.com

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Latest on Zimmerman...

George Zimmerman ready to surrender, if charged - CSMonitor.com

Dave, no surprise there in my opinion.

And I wouldn't be surprised that if he is charged that they use his past history for an insanity plea.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Okay Kim,

Now you have me confused...

You first said

Absolutely true and the point I was making that hefty IS fat.

Then you said

heft·y [hef-tee] Show IPA
adjective, heft·i·er, heft·i·est.
1.
heavy; weighty: a hefty book.
2.
big and strong; powerful; muscular: a hefty athlete.
3.
impressively large or substantial: a hefty increase in salary.

zimmerman is definitely not THAT definition by any stretch of means.

Maybe it's the glass of wine you gave me, lol, but what exactly was your point?

You said that hefty is fat but the definition of hefty is big and strong, muscular which is not fat. :confused:

Refresh my memory, what was your point?

Terra

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Okay Kim,

Now you have me confused...

You first said

Then you said

Maybe it's the glass of wine you gave me, lol, but what exactly was your point?

You said that hefty is fat but the definition of hefty is big and strong, muscular which is not fat. :confused:

Refresh my memory, what was your point?

Terra

No No No Terra, the point I was trying to make was that if you asked your husband the meaning he would agree with what I said. You came back and said that he agreed with your definitions and not mine therefore I gave you the wine so you would forget you were right and I was wrong!!

( Of course if you look at the pics Tim posted you will see hefty IS fat!)

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

... and here's Fox news trying to make this out to be about gun control. It isn't about gun control. It's about idiots with guns.

Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman And The Media's Misleading Rhetoric On Guns | Fox News

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

... and here's Fox news trying to make this out to be about gun control. It isn't about gun control. It's about idiots with guns.

WOW, I'm about to go into shock!!
First TL posts something I have to agree with and now you too!!

(While I am serious about agreeing with you, the post itself is humourous).

Edit: damn, I corrected the spelling of a word and lost the only thanks I have ever gotten from SB.
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KimW

14 years ago

Tim,
I can only life with one arm due to the surgery in the other for the fistula I had put in,but you tell me how much you want me to lift with that one arm and I will shoot you a video of me doing it. Mind you, I have lost 35-40 lbs between the triple bypass in August and the transplant in January and they also claim we lose muscle at a high rate after we hit a certain age,so I definitely am not as strong as I was, but you will see my skinny ass arm life whatever amount ( within reason) that you want.

Of course the point is that you cannot tell strength just by looking,especially looking at a picture.

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Tim,
I can only life with one arm due to the surgery in the other for the fistula I had put in,but you tell me how much you want me to lift with that one arm and I will shoot you a video of me doing it. Mind you, I have lost 35-40 lbs between the triple bypass in August and the transplant in January and they also claim we lose muscle at a high rate after we hit a certain age,so I definitely am not as strong as I was, but you will see my skinny ass arm life whatever amount ( within reason) that you want.

Of course the point is that you cannot tell strength just by looking,especially looking at a picture.

You have THAT right! Some WOMEN with SKINNY arms can lift more than some men that have HUGE ARMS! Even though the unreasonable reason of size vs. strength says it can't be possible. Did you ever think of how much strength a house cat has? Look at IT'S muscles! If we had as much strength for our size, a 90 pound weakling would be STRONG! IMAGINE a person 30years ago saying that a chip smaller than your fngernail could never even store a MEGABYTE! Between leverage, muscle makeup, muscle structure, ATP storage, adrenaline, neural recruitment, circulation, etc... a LOT of things affect strength at a given point. Creatine only assists ATP creation, and has been shown to create an instant(within 1hour) increase of strength of over 10%!

But strength alone does NOT determine the victor!

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Now here's a story with a happy ending.

Bear Saves Robert Biggs From Mountain Lion Attack In California

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seasoned

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Now here's a story with a happy ending.

Bear Saves Robert Biggs From Mountain Lion Attack In California

WOW! If he had been much closer, the bear might have torn him to shreds! You could BET that she was watching. He was LUCKY! Female bears tend to care more about their cubs than any fight.

Steve

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

WOW! If he had been much closer, the bear might have torn him to shreds! You could BET that she was watching. He was LUCKY! Female bears tend to care more about their cubs than any fight.

Steve

Yeah. Amazing story. Lucky for that guy that the bear felt the mountain lion was a threat to her cubs, but not him.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

We need to get Thunderbird to take a peek in here...I do believe we finally have enough for a screenplay.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

For Trayvon...

Aretha Franklin - I say a little prayer (...

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

For the killer Z.

If you see me walking down the street...

Walk On By - YouTube

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KimW

14 years ago

I see the usual morning gang is here.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

For the parents...

Bee Gees (9/16) - How can you mend a broken heart...

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Seems like they've been getting more of this...

Bee Gees- Jive Talkin' - YouTube

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KimW

14 years ago

Well, if you want to make this a music thread,I'm at expert in that department.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Got anything for two guys getting into a scuffle, and one guy getting shot - except "Rocky Racoon"?

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Got anything for two guys getting into a scuffle, and one guy getting shot - except "Rocky Racoon"?

Well, I got "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"

Or Ringo By Lorne Green,except that's about a friend that kills a friend.
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- MoneyMagnetMagnate 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Well, I got "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance"
  
  Or Ringo By Lorne Green,except that's about a friend that kills a friend.
  
  Oh yeah...I forgot about those...well, as long as it isn't "Folsom prison blues"...or "Hurricane" -
  
  Bohemian Rhapsody is a classic - but right now all I can see is that video of the drunk guy in the back of the cop car when I hear that
  
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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Got anything for two guys getting into a scuffle, and one guy getting shot - except "Rocky Racoon"?

How about this part:

Mama, just killed a man
Put a gun against his head
Pulled my trigger, now he's dead
Mama, life had just begun
But now I've gone and thrown it all away
Mama, ooo
Didn't mean to make you cry
If I'm not back again this time tomorrow
Carry on, carry on, as if nothing really matters

From Queen

Queen - 'Bohemian Rhapsody' - YouTube

Terra
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waterotter

14 years ago

I just copied this - not sure of its accuracy. It was a posted comment on an article I just read. The bolded is the link to the call.

333maxwell
2:48 PM EDT
For anyone that is interested....
I am an audio guy..

I took the 911 call with the most audio informatiion regarding screams, compressed it, ran it at half speed and pitch corected it 100 percent.. even though it runs slower (just a tenth over half speed) anyone with an ear for music can tell not a note has been changed.. Digital affords you this luxury. In the analog days we had to physically slow the tape/medium down and you lose pitch and clarity.

Anyway, what I find most interesting is the ghastly scream at about 1:12 right after the final shot.\.

THIS AUDIO IS NOT ENHANCED per sey.. not like enhancing a photo.. the only enhancing has been to adust volume levels so you don't hurt your ear listening to everything at relative volume levels.

There are a few swirling artifacts in this copy because I had to compres the wav file to a 128 kbps mp3 to fit on my page so you had a player to hear it on.. These artifacts are slight and will not distract.

The 911 call as you have never heard it before, draw your own conclusions. Listen for the scream after the shot.

SoundClick artist: 333maxwell - The greatest faux band in the world.... well.. sometimes.. .....kinda...

Again, draw your own conclusions, I am not here to change any minds tonight. This exercise is just a way to access the call and hear things you would not of just listening to the raw recording.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Frankly Jody, I can't make heads or tails out of that. The 1:12 spot is not clear. What does strike me in listening to the screams in the background is that there are several, and they are clearly audible enough to alert this, and other people, to attention of someone in distress. After that, I can't tell what's what...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Frankly Jody, I can't make heads or tails out of that. The 1:12 spot is not clear. What does strike me in listening to the screams in the background is that there are several, and they are clearly audible enough to alert this, and other people, to attention of someone in distress. After that, I can't tell what's what...

3M,
they can't be that audible,after all the blonde didn't hear a thing till after the shot. :rolleyes:

(sorry,but that confirms my theory that there are too many inconsistencies in her and her friends stories.)

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

3M,
they can't be that audible,after all the blonde didn't hear a thing till after the shot. :rolleyes:

(sorry,but that confirms my theory that there are too many inconsistencies in her and her friends stories.)

Audible was probaly not the right word when I meant loud. It does sound loud enough in the background of that call, that there is some yelling...

Whether part of it is on TV or not...I don't know, but it sounds like it is in the distance. I was listening with headphones, and played it back a few times...but as I say - beats me. The tracks need to be separated.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Audible was probaly not the right word when I meant loud. It does sound loud enough in the background of that call, that there is some yelling...

Whether part of it is on TV or not...I don't know, but it sounds like it is in the distance. I was listening with headphones, and played it back a few times...but as I say - beats me. The tracks need to be separated.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic because of the blondes story. I think it was pretty loud because as I said,I am hard of hearing and I could make it out. I also only wear headphones as it keeps things peaceful in the household.I like to listen to a lot of music,usually weird off the wall stuff and she is basically country all the way,though I have to admit when she kariokes she does a mean Patsy Cline

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Kay King

14 years ago

Today both NBC and CBS retracted and changed information they had given in a newscast and also on their websites.

They altered the voice recording (leaving out a key portion) and the result was recordings that sounded more incriminating than they did originally.
How many people watched the newscasts and will never know what they were told was a lie

This case needs to be ratcheted down a notch. The media jumped on it and help turn it into a huge national argument - but it's getting out of control.

I think those in Congress who made inflammatory statements - their opinion, no proven facts - should be censored. They are in office to serve us all - not to promote their own racial agenda.

I think there should be consequences for networks that knowingly alter the news for sensationalized reports.

Right now there is a special prosector from the Justice Department, the FBI has now said it is involved in the case, there is special investigation by the State of Florida - if that many resources can't find the truth, no one else can.

I don't think all of the misinformation is accidental - I think much of it is orchestrated. What I see is info presented as talking points on show after show where the person interviewed ticks off the points he wants to make and ignores questions that don't suit him.

I think there is a bigger story here that may never be told. I heard Sharpton state "these people know only one party cares about Trayvon" - and that was a big "aha" moment. He quickly changed the subject - but I wonder if even MSNBC will be able to stomach that kind of speech for long.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Today both NBC and CBS retracted and changed information they had given in a newscast and also on their websites.

They altered the voice recording (leaving out a key portion) and the result was recordings that sounded more incriminating than they did originally.
How many people watched the newscasts and will never know what they were told was a lie

This case needs to be ratcheted down a notch. The media jumped on it and help turn it into a huge national argument - but it's getting out of control.

I think those in Congress who made inflammatory statements - their opinion, no proven facts - should be censored. They are in office to serve us all - not to promote their own racial agenda.

I think there should be consequences for networks that knowingly alter the news for sensationalized reports.

Right now there is a special prosector from the Justice Department, the FBI has now said it is involved in the case, there is special investigation by the State of Florida - if that many resources can't find the truth, no one else can.

I don't think all of the misinformation is accidental - I think much of it is orchestrated. What I see is info presented as talking points on show after show where the person interviewed ticks off the points he wants to make and ignores questions that don't suit him.

I think there is a bigger story here that may never be told. I heard Sharpton state "these people know only one party cares about Trayvon" - and that was a big "aha" moment.

He quickly changed the subject - but I wonder if even MSNBC will be able to stomach that kind of speech for long.

Did Sharpton make that remark before repubs/conservatives started to go hog wild on Trayvon or after???

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Did Sharpton make that remake before repubs/conservatives started to go hog wild on Trayvon or after???

TL

Umm,What difference does it make??

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Umm,What difference does it make??

If he made the remake after GOPers/right wingers started trashing Trayvon then it would seem like only one party does care about Trayvon...

... since only one party is the one trashing Trayvon.

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If he made the remake after GOPers/right wingers started trashing Trayvon then it would seem like only one party cares does about Trayvon...

... since one party is the one trashing Trayvon.

TL

While I don't agree, I do at least understand your point.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Today both NBC and CBS retracted and changed information they had given in a newscast and also on their websites.

They altered the voice recording (leaving out a key portion) and the result was recordings that sounded more incriminating than they did originally.
How many people watched the newscasts and will never know what they were told was a lie

This case needs to be ratcheted down a notch. The media jumped on it and help turn it into a huge national argument - but it's getting out of control.

I think those in Congress who made inflammatory statements - their opinion, no proven facts - should be censored. They are in office to serve us all - not to promote their own racial agenda.

I think there should be consequences for networks that knowingly alter the news for sensationalized reports.

Right now there is a special prosector from the Justice Department, the FBI has now said it is involved in the case, there is special investigation by the State of Florida - if that many resources can't find the truth, no one else can.

I don't think all of the misinformation is accidental - I think much of it is orchestrated. What I see is info presented as talking points on show after show where the person interviewed ticks off the points he wants to make and ignores questions that don't suit him.

I think there is a bigger story here that may never be told.

I heard Sharpton state "these people know only one party cares about Trayvon" - and that was a big "aha" moment. He quickly changed the subject - but I wonder if even MSNBC will be able to stomach that kind of speech for long.

Kay, I know about what NBC (or was it ABC?) did but I can't find anything on CBS.

Regarding statement by black members of congress and the proclamation by the Congressional Black Caucus...

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/trayvon.pdf

I can't find anything that says anything bad about white people in it.

But...

It alludes to racial profiling with this statement...

"Whereas Zimmerman’s unfounded assumptions and racial
bias led to the use of deadly force;"

As far as I'm concerned the charge of racial profiling in this case is quite arguable.

So IMHO your charge that they ( the Congressional Black Caucus ) are inflaming racial passions is not grounded in reality.

You said...

"They are in office to serve us all - not to promote their own racial agenda."

Actually they are in office to first serve their constituents and then to serve the nation.

My question to you is...

... how in pointing out a great injustice are they promoting some sort of racial agenda??

Once again, if Sharpton made the statement of...

"these people know only one party cares about Trayvon"...

... after, republicans and pros on the right began to go ape**** on Trayvon...

... I don't see any problem with the statement...

... cause it ain't the dems and people on the left who have savaged Trayvon - it's the other side.

Yes, lots of forces and people have agendas.

But...

Are you also suggesting that blacks and whites will actually be fighting each other in the streets over this case??

I think not.

The only people actually inclined for that sort of madness are people predisposed to start racial trouble in the first place.

And/or paid/not paid provocateurs on a mission of all stripes.

I'm willing to bet that most surveys will show that at least 70% of all Americans think Z. should be charged and put on trial.

So there is no real racial divide in this case.

The real divide is between blacks and law enforcement and the criminal justice system - not blacks and whites.

We're angry at the police and the criminal justice system in this country - not White Americans.

And of course there are folks in this country that would like to generate racial animus -

... no one is denying that fact.

It also seems that as soon as the POTUS made that statement of Trayvon would have looked like his son... ( in response to a question from a reporter )

... the right wing decided to jump into the frey and began trashing Trayvon big time.

My question is why??

Were/are they trying to generate racial animus and use the situation to try to score political points?

Another thing...

Once again...

Just because Al Sharpton is involved in this case does not mean he is trying to gin up racial animus.

He is responding to what can be argued as a racially motivated killing...

... and the very nonchalant attitude of the police in regards to the killer.

How does that make Al a racial provocateur - just for responding - after he was asked by the family to help?

Please show me the racially charged statements made by Sharpton - in this case.

All The Best,

TL

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Okay Dan, Kim, and TL,

We agree that the hiring of a PR person was to sway the minds of the public before a trial, I get that.

But, look what it swayed me, part of the public, towards, wondering if the family thinks that George is guilty.

Now, I can hardly believe that I'm so unique that I would be the only one to think that.

So, if that indeed were their intentions, it could just as easily backfire!

Terra

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Dan Riffle 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

<snip> So, if that indeed were they're intentions, it could just as easily backfire!

Not if the PR guy does his job. With the right spin, even the *need* for a PR guy could become a positive.

Who knows at the end of the day, though. I still say, with my future at stake, I would be proactive and roll the dice.
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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Okay Dan, Kim, and TL,

We agree that the hiring of a PR person was to sway the minds of the public before a trial, I get that.

But, look what it swayed me, part of the public, towards, wondering if the family thinks that George is guilty.

Now, I can hardly believe that I'm so unique that I would be the only one to think that.

So, if that indeed were they're intentions, it could just as easily backfire!

Terra

It's a response to the GUILTY-GUILTY-GUILTY type PR that has been the bulk of what been shoved down everybodies throat from the beginning.

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

It's a response to the GUILTY-GUILTY-GUILTY type PR that has been the bulk of what been shoved down everybodies throat from the beginning.

Well Dave,

With all due respect, he is GUILTY of killing Trayvon by his own admission. It is really the circumstances surrounding the incident that are being investigated, as I've pointed out before.

Terra
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Okay Dan, Kim, and TL,

We agree that the hiring of a PR person was to sway the minds of the public before a trial, I get that.

But, look what it swayed me, part of the public, towards, wondering if the family thinks that George is guilty.

Now, I can hardly believe that I'm so unique that I would be the only one to think that.

So, if that indeed were their intentions, it could just as easily backfire!

Terra

Terra,
I didn't say it works,I just explained to you why certain people do it.

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Terra,
I didn't say it works,I just explained to you why certain people do it.

Exactly!

Terra
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Kay, I know about what NBC (or was it ABC?) did but I can't find anything on CBS.

Regarding statement by black members of congress and the proclamation by the Congressional Black Caucus...

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/trayvon.pdf

I can't find anything that says anything bad about white people in it.

But...

It alludes to racial profiling with this statement...

"Whereas Zimmerman's unfounded assumptions and racial
bias led to the use of deadly force;"

As far as I'm concerned the charge of racial profiling in this case is quite arguable.

So IMHO your charge that they ( the Congressional Black Caucus ) are inflaming racial passions is not grounded in reality.

You said...

"They are in office to serve us all - not to promote their own racial agenda."

Actually they are in office to first serve their constituents and then to serve the nation.

My question to you is...

... how in pointing out a great injustice are they promoting some sort of racial agenda??

Once again, if Sharpton made the statement of...

"these people know only one party cares about Trayvon"...

... after, republicans and pros on the right began to go ape**** on Trayvon...

... I don't see any problem with the statement...

... cause it ain't the dems and people on the left who have savaged Trayvon - it's the other side.

Yes, lots of forces and people have agendas.

But...

Are you also suggesting that blacks and whites will actually be fighting each other in the streets over this case??

I think not.

The only people actually inclined for that sort of madness are people predisposed to start racial trouble in the first place.

And/or paid/not paid provocateurs on a mission of all stripes.

I'm willing to bet that most surveys will show that at least 70% of all Americans think Z. should be charged and put on trial.

So there is no real racial divide in this case.

The real divide is between blacks and law enforcement and the criminal justice system - not blacks and whites.

We're angry at the police and the criminal justice system in this country - not White Americans.

And of course there are folks in this country that would like to generate racial animus -

... no one is denying that fact.

It also seems that as soon as the POTUS made that statement of Trayvon would have looked like his son... ( in response to a question from a reporter )

... the right wing decided to jump into the frey and began trashing Trayvon big time.

My question is why??

Were/are they trying to generate racial animus and use the situation to try to score political points?

Another thing...

Once again...

Just because Al Sharpton is involved in this case does not mean he is trying to gin up racial animus.

He is responding to what can be argued as a racially motivated killing...

... and the very nonchalant attitude of the police in regards to the killer.

How does that make Al a racial provocateur - just for responding - after he was asked by the family to help?

Please show me the racially charged statements made by Sharpton - in this case.

All The Best,

TL

TL,
You have actually contradicted yourself in this post.

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TLTheLiberator 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

TL,
You have actually contradicted yourself in this post.

Where, cause I'd love to know?????????????

TL
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- KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator
  
  Where, cause I'd love to know?????????????
  
  TL
  
  You are a smart man, reread it carefully and you should be able to see for yourself.
  
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  TLTheLiberator 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  You are a smart man, reread it carefully and you should be able to see for yourself.
  
  Why don't you show me???????????????
  
  TL
  
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KimW

14 years ago

I read your post and I listened to the audio.....twice. I can hear the scream saying what sounds like help, I don't know what I am suppose to be hearing after the shot.
I have to say my hearing is not the best though,When they told me it wasn't as good as a normal persons they said it was too many rock concerts.( and that's the truth,that is what they told me).

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waterotter

14 years ago

I have a hard time understanding also. With all that screaming before the shot - I wonder what the time frame is in regards to Trayvon's phone disconnecting with his girlfriend.

This dude should be fired for making this public the way he did.

BTW, I've been reading that all cell phone calls are recorded - anyone know anything about this?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

I have a hard time understanding also. With all that screaming before the shot - I wonder what the time frame is in regards to Trayvon's phone disconnecting with his girlfriend.

This dude should be fired for making this public the way he did.

BTW, I've been reading that all cell phone calls are recorded - anyone know anything about this?

As a matter of fact we have been discussing that in another thread.Look for the threat titled something about email....
EDIT: I found the link for you

http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...-new-laws.html

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waterotter

14 years ago

Yesterday the tapes from the 911 call were finally released, though surprisingly, George has yet to be arrested. George maintained that he reacted in self-defense when shooting the unarmed teen in the chest and killing him.

The tapes confirm witness reports of Trayvon screaming for help as multiple shots were fired. The community remains outraged as George, who was commanded during the call not to approach the young man, continues to roam free.

As reported by CNN:

911 tapes released Friday detail moments of terror in the neighborhood as residents made a flurry of calls describing a gunshot and a teen wailing for help.

In some of the recordings, a voice screams "Help, help!" in the background.

"There were gunshots right outside my house. There's someone screaming, I just heard a guy shot," a neighbor says. "Hurry up, they are right outside my house."

Recordings mirrored the same details: A man outside was crying for help, followed by the sound of a gunshot.

"Hurry please ... there's someone screaming outside," a neighbor whispers. "There's a gunshot, hurry up ... there's someone screaming. I just heard a gunshot."

In another call, a woman begs the dispatchers to send help, saying someone is "screaming and hollering" for help.

Moments later, she describes a light at the scene of the shooting.

"Oh my God ..." she said, "There's still somebody out there walking with a flashlight."

Zimmerman told police he shot the teen in self defense, authorities said, and remains free as the state attorney investigates. Police said he has not been charged because there are no grounds to disprove his story of what happened.

It's sad that there has yet to be an arrest made. We hope that justice is seen and our support is with the family of Trayvon Martin.

View the accompanying video for more detail.

SOURCE: CNN

Read more: Trayvon Martin 911 Call Audio Released (VIDEO) | Global Grind This is Zimmerman's 1st call.

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waterotter

14 years ago

For anyone interested, here's an online petition: Prosecute the killer of our son, 17-year-old Trayvon Martin

I signed it.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

I wondered why the pros on the right suddenly picked up this story and turned it into a cause celeb of sorts.

And then went out of their way to trash a dead teen.

This article helped me gain more understanding...

Conservatives baffled at idea of white Hispanic people - Trayvon Martin - Salon.com

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ThomM

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I wondered why the pros on the right suddenly picked up this story and turned it into a cause celeb of sorts.

And then went out of their way to trash a dead teen.

This article helped me gain more understanding...

Conservatives baffled at idea of white Hispanic people - Trayvon Martin - Salon.com

Lot of stupid in that article.
I know and have worked with more then a few Hispanics (mostly from Puerto Rico) and for the most part they had a lower opinion of blacks then most whites I know.
Course I have a sneaky feeling that if I was black, they would of had a lower opinion of whites then blacks.
Anyways is anyone else getting tired of the media turning this into a political thing and how all parties (dems., repubs., cons., libs.)are trying to use it for their agendas?

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Kay King

14 years ago

TL - The issue of "race classifications" was covered in this thread way back there.

That wasn't my point - and you are smart enough to know it.

What you are doing is what many of us do - looking for "info" that supports what you have chosen to believe.

I admit I often get into trouble with those on both sides of an issue because I tend to sit on the fence and look closely at what both sides are doing and saying.

It's frustrating as I seldom get the excitement that comes with emotional investment in big issue - but it's interesting as I see the manipulation and maneuvering on both sides that others might miss.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

TL - The issue of "race classifications" was covered in this thread way back there.

That wasn't my point - and you are smart enough to know it.

What you are doing is what many of us do - looking for "info" that supports what you have chosen to believe.

I admit I often get into trouble with those on both sides of an issue because I tend to sit on the fence and look closely at what both sides are doing and saying.

It's frustrating as I seldom get the excitement that comes with emotional investment in big issue - but it's interesting as I see the manipulation and maneuvering on both sides that others might miss.

The larger point of the article was...

... why conservatives/republicans decided to jump on the trash Trayvon bandwagon.

The White/Hispanic thing was one of the reasons.

TL

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Trayvon Martin Resolution Introduced By Congressional Black Caucus
WASHINGTON -- The Congressional Black Caucus unveiled a resolution on Wednesday that honors the life of Trayvon Martin and calls for the repeal of "Stand Your Ground" gun laws in every state that has one, including Florida, where Martin was killed.

Trayvon Martin Resolution Introduced By Congressional Black Caucus

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seasoned

14 years ago

The stand your ground law, as I understand it, just reinstates a law going back as far as recorded history and probably back to the beginning. It has been legislated away so much they just basically brought back a law saying that you should be blameless for a murder caused by an innocent act of self defense!

Of course, if you LOOK for trouble, it doesn't apply.

Steve

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Report: Zimmerman's family wrote letter saying he criticized Sanford police over homeless man's beating - Orlando Sentinel

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Report: Zimmerman's family wrote letter saying he criticized Sanford police over homeless man's beating - Orlando Sentinel

Interesting, Z. the crusader for truth and justice.

Wasn't that the police chief's son involved in the beating??

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Interesting, Z. the crusader for truth and justice.

Wasn't that the police chief's son involved in the beating??

TL

Again, what difference would it make who was involved ?
Not being argumentative, I'm just trying to understand what your point is.

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Again, what difference would it make who was involved ?
Not being argumentative, I'm just trying to understand what your point is.

Why Kim....that's the textbook method of how to side-step MY point.
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- KimW 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Dave Patterson
  
  Why Kim....that's the textbook method of how to side-step MY point.
  
  Dave, I think the prozac is finally kicking in.
  
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Again, what difference would it make who was involved ?
Not being argumentative, I'm just trying to understand what your point is.

If true, I find it very interesting that the son of a police chief would be involved in something like beating up/on a homeless person.

Did dad cover it up??

Was anyone charged??

But of course, even if it's true, no one can be 100% sure of all the details right?

If you don't find it interesting, I understand.

TL

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If true, I find it very interesting that the son of a police chief would be involved in something like beating up/on a homeless person.

Did dad cover it up??

Was anyone charged??

But of course, even if it's true, no one can be 100% sure of all the details right?

If you don't find it interesting, I understand.

TL

Daddy lost his job over it. It's irrelevant to this case, but Zimmerman just hired a new attorney PR guy to put out "news" information that puts him in a better light. Letters don't change the fact that he killed an innocent kid who aroused his suspicion because he was "walking and looking around".

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Daddy lost his job over it. It's irrelevant to this case, but Zimmerman just hired a new attorney PR guy to put out "news" information that puts him in a better light. Letters don't change the fact that he killed an innocent kid who aroused his suspicion because he was "walking and looking around".

Oh, so it's not the current police chief.

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TL

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sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Oh, so it's not the current police chief.

Thanks,

TL

No ... this was years ago. There was a cover up and the media got hold of it and the police chief was fired. I read about the case but didn't bring it up because it is just more racially charged stuff that is irrelevant to this case.
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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

If true, I find it very interesting that the son of a police chief would be involved in something like beating up/on a homeless person.

Did dad cover it up??

Was anyone charged??

But of course, even if it's true, no one can be 100% sure of all the details right?

If you don't find it interesting, I understand.

I honestly don't understand what you mean by this.

TL

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Couldn't find the letter, but here's a copy of a flier Zimmerman wrote and spent weeks handing out. Zimmerman Letter to Sanford Churches

Sounds to me like he actually had issues with the police chief and the SPD.

Wouldn't it be odd that if that is the case they would actually participate in a cover up to protect him?

In fact, while searching for the letter I saw that the officer that handcuffed him (after the Martin shooting) was one of the two officers he was trying to force diciplinary measures on. The other officer was also "on scene"...

...and further down the rabbit hole we go....

Red pill or Blue pill?

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Daddy lost his job over it. It's irrelevant to this case, but Zimmerman just hired a new attorney PR guy to put out "news" information that puts him in a better light. Letters don't change the fact that he killed an innocent kid who aroused his suspicion because he was "walking and looking around".

I'm glad daddy lost his job. I also agree that it is irrelevant to this case.
As far as hiring a new PR guy, first I have heard of it,but even if it is true he couldn't have fabricated what Dave posted I don't believe.

And I agree with this too,except I had to change one word:
"Letters don't change the fact that he killed a kid who aroused his suspicion because he was "walking and looking around".

Guilt OR innocence has still not been proven in a court of law,and as most of us have said many times here,all we want to see is justice done.
And before anyone attacks me ,I have also stated ,numerous times now, that my opinion is that he should be convicted at the minimum of manslaughter.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

What strikes me as odd is that the Zimmermans would hire a PR person to portray George in a different light to the public.

I mean what difference does that make in the court of law? Juror's and the judge are presented with evidence pertaining to the case and the jurors are advised to only take into account what is permissible and presented in court.

Public opinion doesn't matter in a trial.

Does this show fear from the Zimmermans that perhaps George is guilty as heck and may be convicted?

Makes we wonder anyway, hmmm...

Terra

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Dan Riffle

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

<snip>Public opinion doesn't matter in a trial.

Public opinion **shouldn't** matter. I'd be hard-pressed to believe they'll be able to find a jury that isn't already aware of the case. Consciously or subconsciously, the jury will have preconceived bias -- one way or the other. With the future of my life at stake, guilty, not guilty, or somewhere in between, I'd hire a PR guy, too.

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Kay King

14 years ago

Three hours ago a very good article was posted and I think the author has an interesting view on this "public sentiment".

Meghan Daum: We're tired of being Trayvon - latimes.com

The photos on the signs being used even today are photoshopped - and we don't know who photoshopped them. There are several sites showing the real and doctored image online.

Trayvon Martin's doctored hoodie photo

Trayvon's twitter account was closed - but not until some had accessed his tweets and published them. That fueled the controversy - but truth is this is a normal kid. A 17 yr old male can be a good kid - and still posture as a tough guy on social media sites - it's done every day. So why hide it? It's part of who he was.

The Martin family has a bevy of lawyers and a public relations firm.

Zimmerman's original lawyers had never handled a death case - they weren't qualified for this. That's why he has a new lawyer.

I have questions about the incident that have no bearing on the actual killing that happened. I raised two active sons and I know kids often do what they want - and we don't always know what they are doing. I also know I didn't go to sleep until my sons were accounted for.

I question this - and there are no explanations given by the family:

A 17 yr old said to be on "restriction" is permitted to walk over two miles in the rain just after dark to buy "tea and skittles". 3-4 hours later his father returns home and Trayvon is not there - and he thinks "he's just met up with friends and is talking". But he also says the skittles were for the girlfriend's son who stayed behind at the apartment - an empty skittles bag was reportedly found.

Trayvon's mother said he was sent to his father's to get him away from his friends while on restriction for school suspension. It doesn't match up.

"Tea and skittles" has meaning beyond "tea" and "skittles". Does it matter - probably not in this case. Hopefully, blood tests were done to clear questions that might come up about it.

I can't help but feel this young man is being used by people who have their own plans to pursue. Somehow it seems disrespectful to him to be used in this way. I totally agree justice is necessary - but that could go either way when the facts are all out there.

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Kay King

14 years ago

Why don't you show me

There is nothing served by getting angry at others who don't see what you see. When you argue a case from a position of unwillingness to even consider other opinions, you lose credibility.

You are among friends here - not enemies.

The issue of this case isn't black and white. A young man walking not on the sidewalk but close to the buildings was seen as "suspicious" by a person who was suspicious due to recent breakins and who should not have been carrying a weapon.

We don't know how the confrontation began - or what exactly went down. We know from all accounts of those who have known Zimmerman for years - he was not a racist. We know from accounts of Martin he was a good kid.

We know how this started - and the tragic ending. That's all we know. There is no reason to use this as a reason to go off on others who see things from a different perspective - because there is no way to prove right or wrong.

Discussing the issue and the media reports is interesting - but it shouldn't become personal.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

There is nothing served by getting angry at others who don't see what you see.

When you argue a case from a position of unwillingness to even consider other opinions, you lose credibility.

You are among friends here - not enemies.

The issue of this case isn't black and white. A young man walking not on the sidewalk but close to the buildings was seen as "suspicious" by a person who was suspicious due to recent breakins and who should not have been carrying a weapon.

We don't know how the confrontation began - or what exactly went down. We know from all accounts of those who have known Zimmerman for years - he was not a racist. We know from accounts of Martin he was a good kid.

We know how this started - and the tragic ending. That's all we know. There is no reason to use this as a reason to go off on others who see things from a different perspective - because there is no way to prove right or wrong.

Discussing the issue and the media reports is interesting - but it shouldn't become personal.

Who said I was angry???

I'm simply asking Kim to show me where I have contradicted myself in that post as he has charged.

I saw a former FL prosecutor yesterday on TV that said because of the 9-1-1 tapes,...

... he would make racial animosity the centerpiece of his case if he were to try Z. in court.

So, Z. not being a racist seems to be arguable at this point for many people.

You're entitled to your point of view on Z.'s racial views and I respect that.

All The Best!!

TL

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

That one had me scratching my head also! lol

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Who said I was angry???

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Why don't you show me???????????????

TL

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

That one had me scratching my head also! lol

Tim,
I know you have been online long enough to know that when someone uses multiples of something it is considered a sign of over emotion. Not necessarily anger,but excitement at least,so when TL did this:"???????????????" it isn't hard to assume he is having some sort of emotional situation,and since this has been a highly charged thread and discussion I could see how someone might assume that emotion is anger.

Right??????????????????

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Hmmmm,

That shows sarcasm to me! :p

Terra
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Tim,
I know you have been online long enough to know that when someone uses multiples of something it is considered a sign of over emotion. Not necessarily anger,but excitement at least,so when TL did this:"???????????????" it isn't hard to assume he is having some sort of emotional situation,and since this has been a highly charged thread and discussion I could see how someone might assume that emotion is anger.

Right??????????????????

I thought I was emphasizing my question.

TL

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I thought I was emphasizing my question.

TL

And I am just explaining how someone can interpet it differently.

I'm certainly not angry at you and I hope you aren't at me.
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Halcyon

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

...

The issue of this case isn't black and white. A young man walking not on the sidewalk but close to the buildings was seen as "suspicious" by a person who was suspicious due to recent breakins and who should not have been carrying a weapon.

We don't know how the confrontation began - or what exactly went down. We know from all accounts of those who have known Zimmerman for years - he was not a racist. We know from accounts of Martin he was a good kid.

...

You're absolutely correct. This shouldn't be a case of black and white but it is. Why? because race is still a heated personal issue.

It's shouldn't be but it is. I'd love for our country to move past Black and White because there are so many more insidious threats, like crazy people with guns.

But You can't erase what your parents teach you. You can grow, you can analyze it, you can ignore it, you can learn it's wrong. But you can't erase it.

We're only 50-60 years away from sanctioned beatings, hosings and Jim Crow. My parents are from Alabama, my father met my mother as they were paired in a human chain that was being hosed by the police. This is a fact.

Tolerance was taught in my home because on the other side of my father was his father (my grandfather) who is white. He had to hide his German ancestry and pretend to be light skinned so he could marry my grandmother in Alabama.

He is still alive, I talk with him, he remembers Jim Crow south. His experience is real. These are facts and they affect him and me.

Most blacks standing in those lines only saw people who looked like them being hosed by white police. Do you think these people taught their kids (the leaders of today) that white people were their friends?

Probably not. The message was probably more like watch out, they want to hurt you. This was a valid fear and this is only one example of the stain of racism. It's very real.

I'm not saying it was rational, fair or correct. But being harassed day in and day out makes you paranoid and we tend to pass our fears to our children. Yes, I know that everybody's granny had a tough go but Jim Crow was a systematic regimen designed for no other reason than to oppress ex slaves and their descendants.

This oppression ran for 90 years AFTER slavery. That isn't easily forgotten. Especially when there are people still alive who remember it.

Now we are here today, where there are laws protecting civil rights and more people speak up and out for equality.

My gosh we even have a black president. So why on earth do black people keep bringing up race every time something happens?

Surely two generations is long enough get over 11 generations of oppression, right? I guess not.

Perhaps some stains take just a little bit longer to rub out. But until it's gone it will continue to tarnish everything. Sad but true.

Perhaps when more people black and white teach their kids tolerance and not to make sweeping judgments things will get better. Perhaps if more people black and white bothered to understand why people were angry instead of telling them they shouldn't be things will get better.

Descending from my soapbox now.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

What strikes me as odd is that the Zimmermans would hire a PR person to portray George in a different light to the public.

I mean what difference does that make in the court of law? Juror's and the judge are presented with evidence pertaining to the case and the jurors are advised to only take into account what is permissible and presented in court.

Public opinion doesn't matter in a trial.

Does this show fear from the Zimmermans that perhaps George is guilty as heck and may be convicted?

Makes we wonder anyway, hmmm...

Terra

I think this is an attempt by Z's people to try to influence the potential jury pool into believing that Z. is not a racist.

They need for him to not be seen as a racist cause that won't be any good for his case - if it ever goes to trial.

You're right, public opinion doesn't matter but...

The jury pool will probably come from the people of Sanford that has already heard a lot of stuff and will hear a whole lot more stuff regarding this case.

All The Best!!

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

I think this is an attempt by Z's people to try to influence the potential jury pool into believing that Z. is not a racist.

They need for him to not be seen as a racist cause that won't be any good for his case - if it ever goes to trial.

You're right, public opinion doesn't matter but...

The jury pool will probably come from the people of Sanford that has already heard a lot of stuff and will hear a whole lot more stuff regarding this case.

All The Best!!

TL

I honestly doubt that. I'll bet that either one of both attorneys call for a change of venue due to the inability to find a non biased jury in that town.

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MissTerraK 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I honestly doubt that. I'll bet that either one of both attorneys call for a change of venue due to the inability to find a non biased jury in that town.

Those are my sentiments exactly Kim!

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Terra
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I honestly doubt that. I'll bet that either one of both attorneys call for a change of venue due to the inability to find a non biased jury in that town.

Z's people can ask for the trial to be moved but to what end?

They're not going to move the trial out of state and you can't find a jury pool in the state of FL that hasn't heard a lot about this case.

So the trial will be held in the state of Florida maybe not Sanford itself but why bother??

TL

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Z's people can ask for the trial to be moved but to what end?

They're not going to move the trial out of state and you can't find a jury pool in the state of FL that hasn't heard a lot about this case.

So the trial will be held in the state of Florida maybe not Sanford itself but why bother??

TL

I'm not going to argue with you,I was just stating what I think will be a fact (though it isn't at this point).

And it could be either side that asks for it or both, who knows? There are many reasons either side may do it.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

What strikes me as odd is that the Zimmermans would hire a PR person to portray George in a different light to the public.

I mean what difference does that make in the court of law? Juror's and the judge are presented with evidence pertaining to the case and the jurors are advised to only take into account what is permissible and presented in court.

Public opinion doesn't matter in a trial.

Does this show fear from the Zimmermans that perhaps George is guilty as heck and may be convicted?

Makes we wonder anyway, hmmm...

Terra

He had one lawyer and a media relations person. He just fired the media relations person and just hired another new lawyer ... one who is a criminal defense lawyer and that new lawyer is now in charge of media relations also.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

He had one lawyer and a media relations person. He just fired the media relations person and just hired another new lawyer ... one who is a criminal defense lawyer and that new lawyer is now in charge of media relations also.

Thank you Suzanne!

I think that was a wise decision on his part.

Terra

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Report: Zimmerman's family wrote letter saying he criticized Sanford police over homeless man's beating - Orlando Sentinel

I'd love to see that letter.

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I'd love to see that letter.

Couldn't find the letter, but here's a copy of a flier Zimmerman wrote and spent weeks handing out. http://www.scribd.com/doc/87840105/Z...nford-Churches

Sounds to me like he actually had issues with the police chief and the SPD.

In fact, while searching for the letter I saw that the officer that handcuffed him (after the Martin shooting) was one of the two officers he was trying to force diciplinary measures on. The other officer was also "on scene"...

...and further down the rabbit hole we go....
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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

I'd love to see that letter.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/n.../DOC040412.pdf

It's hard to read.

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by waterotter

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/n.../DOC040412.pdf

It's hard to read.

After reading this letter and comparing it to the Trayvon Martin case I find that I believe Zimmerman has a problem with the police and doesn't think they do a good enough job and thinks he could do it better.

That could easily put it in a negative light with the public, leading right back to him being a Neighbor Hood Watch vigilante and taking the law into his own hands. Think about it, calling Trayvon suspicious, following him after being advised not to and packing heat while he shouldn't have.

Isn't that what a vigilante does? Take the law into their own hands because they don't think the law will serve justice?

The other thing that bothers me is the letter's author trying say that they will "have blood on their hands" if something happens to Zimmerman.

Like Zimmerman doesn't have blood on his hands whether he is charged with something or not! Hypocrites! :rolleyes:

Terra

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waterotter

14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

After reading this letter and comparing it to the Trayvon Martin case I find that I believe Zimmerman has a problem with the police and doesn't think they do a good enough job and thinks he could do it better.

That could easily put it in a negative light with the public, leading right back to him being a Neighbor Hood Watch vigilante and taking the law into his own hands. Think about it, calling Trayvon suspicious, following him after being advised not to and packing heat while he shouldn't have.

Isn't that what a vigilante does? Take the law into their own hands because they don't think the law will serve justice?

The other thing that bothers me is the letter's author trying say that they will "have blood on their hands" if something happens to Zimmerman.

Like Zimmerman doesn't have blood on his hands whether he is charged with something or not! Hypocrites! :rolleyes:

Terra

Terra, I agree with you 100%. As I was reading the letter, I was thinking this dude is definitely a wannabe cop. And, talk about double standards.

That letter didn't put him in a "good lite" in my eyes - quite the opposite.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Yep. It also doesn't look good for the Zimmerman family to be lumping the "black community" together, threatening the NAACP, calling their actions racist and painting the Zimmerman family as the victims. I hope the new PR guy wasn't involved in the writing of the letter because if they were, they did a terrible job.

Originally Posted by waterotter

Terra, I agree with you 100%. As I was reading the letter, I was thinking this dude is definitely a wannabe cop. And, talk about double standards.

That letter didn't put him in a "good lite" in my eyes - quite the opposite.

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KimW

14 years ago

Doesn't make me wonder a bit Terra, almost anyone with the funds to actually do it does it when they are portrayed in a bad light to the public. Of course we see it most often in Celebrities behaving badly, but if his family has as much money and pull as I keep hearing,it's SOP for situations like this.
I'm pretty sure OJ did that too,and some other cases that I can't remember right now,old timers disease is kicking in.

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garyv

14 years ago

Uh Oh... You mean he didn't say Coon? Time for the liberal media to put that race card back into their sleeve where it came from...

Zimmerman's 911 call: Audio enhanced again -...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Uh Oh... You mean he didn't say Coon? Time for the liberal media to put that race card back into their sleeve where it came from...

Zimmerman's 911 call: Audio enhanced again - YouTube

Gary, contrary to what everyone wants to believe,the race card should never have been an issue.

But it's funny your saying the liberals are playing yet some posting here are claiming the right wing conservatives are playing it.
I;m just getting so confused as to who is playing what hand any more.

How about a nice game of chess?
(5 points to who can tell me what movie that is from).

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I think it's in poor taste to post that racial slur here Gary.

I never did think he said that word by the way.

Originally Posted by garyv

Uh Oh... You mean he didn't say C***? Time for the liberal media to put that race card back into their sleeve where it came from...

Zimmerman's 911 call: Audio enhanced again - YouTube

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KimW

14 years ago

Oh come on, this is the kinder and gentler discussion now.
Everyone take their meds and calm down.

I'm certainly not angry at anyone.

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Oh come on, this is the kinder and gentler discussion now.
Everyone take their meds and calm down.
I'm certainly not angry at anyone.

Took mine.

But for some strange reason it's caused my recliner to freeze up in a very comfortable position...
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KimW

14 years ago

Tim,
While it may be what you think poor taste, it is also very relevant to the whole case and others arguments. You are now talking political correctness and I am 100% against that because it whitewashes the truth.

And again, you can guarantee it will be brought up in court.

As to the actual recording, I saw what you posted you think it sounds like;"punk" and it sounds like it to me too,

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I disagree. Most news outlets will only use the phrase "racial slur". People know what they are referring to. It's not about being politically correct as much as just showing a little sensitivity and common sense.

Originally Posted by KimW

Tim,
While it may be what you think poor taste, it is also very relevant to the whole case and others arguments. You are now talking political correctness and I am 100% against that because it whitewashes the truth.

And again, you can guarantee it will be brought up in court.

As to the actual recording, I saw what you posted you think it sounds like;"punk" and it sounds like it to me too,

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I disagree. Most news outlets will only use the phrase "racial slur". People know what they are referring to. It's not about being politically correct as much as just showing a little sensitivity and common sense.

I can go along with that.
He could have said racial slur. I think listening to the video would indicate what they were going for though,not that it really makes a difference in the long run.I still think it ill be a key piece in the prosecutors case.

But then again, this thread isn't a news outlet.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I disagree. Most news outlets will only use the phrase "racial slur". People know what they are referring to. It's not about being politically correct as much as just showing a little sensitivity and common sense.

No - it's political correctness. Sorry Tim, but w/ just a simple search I've turned up thousands of news articles using that word. Including CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and the New York Daily News. How else do you think we all knew that it was "that" word that he said? I wasn't calling anyone a coon. I was reporting on it's use. If I've offended anyone I'm truly sorry...

that you're so sensitive.... Get over it.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Sorry Tim, but w/ just a simple search I've turned up thousands of news articles using that word. Including CNN, MSNBC, CBS, and the New York Daily News.

I really doubt that Gary. Just doing a search using the slur, a few words and CNN ( or whatever news outlet you choose ) and finding thousands of results doesn't prove anything. Most are likely from comments or blogs, not official articles from CNN, NBC, ABC etc...

How else do you think we all knew that it was "that" word that he said?

By watching the video. :/

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I really doubt that Gary. Just doing a search using the slur, a few words and CNN ( or whatever news outlet you choose ) and finding thousands of results doesn't prove anything. Most are likely from comments or blogs, not official articles from CNN, NBC, ABC etc...

By watching the video. :/

Here are just a few...

Trayvon Martin shooting: What do we know? - Crimesider - CBS News

George Zimmerman's Attorney and Friend Speak About Trayvon Martin Incident - ABC News

Friends defend George Zimmerman - New York Daily News

Change of Subject: This is not a hard question, Victor Davis Hanson

The facts, the lies, and the unknowns in the Trayvon Martin case - National Political Buzz | Examiner.com

Martin Lewis: George Zimmerman's Lawyer Prepares His Twinkie Defense Strategy "The Monty Python Defense"

Perceived racial overtones in Trayvon Martin case - Video on msnbc.com

It's used in articles and blogs.

It's called context - not insensitivity.

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MoneyMagnetMagnate

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Tim,
While it may be what you think poor taste, it is also very relevant to the whole case and others arguments. You are now talking political correctness and I am 100% against that because it whitewashes the truth.

And again, you can guarantee it will be brought up in court.

As to the actual recording, I saw what you posted you think it sounds like;"punk" and it sounds like it to me too,

Gee, Huck - You have to be careful with terms like 'whitewashes' we don't want to have to re-edit the book again...:p - people get so sensitive and all...

Point is - as long as there is a race card to play, someone will try to play it. No matter what race it might be. It's hard to start with a new deck, and even then, someone will always claim the game is fixed. For now, we have to play with the hand we're dealt.
(I have to stop now, I'm using up my metaphor cliche' allowance)

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KimW

14 years ago

What does Terra?

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

What does Terra?

When you did this...

Tim,
I know you have been online long enough to know that when someone uses multiples of something it is considered a sign of over emotion. Not necessarily anger,but excitement at least,so when TL did this:"???????????????" it isn't hard to assume he is having some sort of emotional situation,and since this has been a highly charged thread and discussion I could see how someone might assume that emotion is anger.

Right??????????????????

I was just playin' though.

Terra

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

When you did this...

I was just playin' though.

Terra

It's so hard to tell online !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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KimW

14 years ago

Halcyon,
You would get two Thanks from me if I could give two and if I even had a damn thank button but mine is coming and going sporadically.

I actually wrote a very long response, but decided I'd share it only with you ,if your interested And if not, I understand.

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Halcyon

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

Halcyon,
You would get two Thanks from me if I could give two and if I even had a damn thank button but mine is coming and going sporadically.

I actually wrote a very long response, but decided I'd share it only with you ,if your interested And if not, I understand.

Thanks Kim,
I'd love to hear (read) your response. I've actually received a couple of PM's from people who thought the post was pretty good.

I posted because I wanted to state my opinion and hear what the WF family thought.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Thanks Kim,
I'd love to hear (read) your response. I've actually received a couple of PM's from people who thought the post was pretty good.

I posted because I wanted to state my opinion and hear what the WF family thought.

Pretty good? In my case I think the word "enlightening" more fits the bill...

Like Kim, I'm not going to go into "why", or I'll be here all day.

But I DO thank you for that post!

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garyv

14 years ago

I agree with you Halcyon - we are not far enough removed in years from those terrible blemishes in our history that they don't effect us today. In fact we still have White-Supremacy and KKK in our country today.

With wounds so deep, the best thing to do is to of course not let it happen again, but then for the wound to heal, you must leave it alone, and once in a while clean it out, and wash out the infection.

Which is why it was so troubling for me to see people - people that many consider leaders - jumping to conclusions, and tearing open a wound that we're so desperately trying to let heal.

In my opinion several of these "leaders" are the infection. And that infection has caused the wound to burst open again. Now that the wound is open again, it's time to clean out that infection.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I agree with you Halcyon - we are not far enough removed in years from those terrible blemishes in our history that they don't effect us today. In fact we still have White-Supremacy and KKK in our country today.

With wounds so deep, the best thing to do is to of course not let it happen again, but then for the wound to heal, you must leave it alone, and once in a while clean it out, and wash out the infection.

Which is why it was so troubling for me to see people - people that many consider leaders - jumping to conclusions, and tearing open a wound that we're so desperately trying to let heal.

In my opinion several of these "leaders" are the infection. And that infection has caused the wound to burst open again. Now that the wound is open again, it's time to clean out that infection.

It's going to take GENERATIONS to heal...

"Teach Your Children Well" - CSN@Y

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Halcyon

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I agree with you Halcyon - we are not far enough removed in years from those terrible blemishes in our history that they don't effect us today. In fact we still have White-Supremacy and KKK in our country today.

With wounds so deep, the best thing to do is to of course not let it happen again, but then for the wound to heal, you must leave it alone, and once in a while clean it out, and wash out the infection.

Which is why it was so troubling for me to see people - people that many consider leaders - jumping to conclusions, and tearing open a wound that we're so desperately trying to let heal.

In my opinion several of these "leaders" are the infection. Now that the wound is open again, it's time to clean them out.

It's definitely going to be more of an evolution than revolution to heal. As more people branch out and learn that a jerk can be of any color and then we can move ahead.

We're getting there.

When we first moved here, the little boy down the street (4 years old) called me a "brown lady" . His mother was so embarrassed but I am a brown lady.

He described me as he saw me. It was obvious that he hadn't been taught black or racial slurs or political correctness. He noticed the difference in my skin but had no opinion of it. That's beautiful and honest.

He skinned his knee and got a bunny band-aid. He described it to his mother the best way he could.

"The lady down the street gave it to me"
"Which one?"
"The brown one"

My point is as more people teach their kids not to judge the inside based on the outside, it will get better.

Until then we have situations like what is happening with Trayvon Martin's case.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I agree with you Halcyon - we are not far enough removed in years from those terrible blemishes in our history that they don't effect us today. In fact we still have White-Supremacy and KKK in our country today.

With wounds so deep, the best thing to do is to of course not let it happen again, but then for the wound to heal, you must leave it alone, and once in a while clean it out, and wash out the infection.

Which is why it was so troubling for me to see people - people that many consider leaders - jumping to conclusions, and tearing open a wound that we're so desperately trying to let heal.

In my opinion several of these "leaders" are the infection.

And that infection has caused the wound to burst open again.

Now that the wound is open again, it's time to clean out that infection.

Since you're here Gary, who are these leaders you speak of in the above??

TL

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Since you're here Gary, who are these leaders you speak of in the above??

TL

Not going to make this overly political - but just anyone on either side that has jumped the gun on the whole race thing. You know, the usual suspects that make their living doing such. It's not hard to figure out who they are.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

OH, you mean people like Rush? He's made a ton on that. I agree.

Originally Posted by garyv

Not going to make this overly political - but just anyone on either side that has jumped the gun on the whole race thing. You know, the usual suspects that make their living doing such. It's not hard to figure out who they are.

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Dave Patterson 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

OH, you mean people like Rush? He's made a ton on that. I agree.

YIKES! I think I may be psychic...!
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KimW

14 years ago

As I said before, the Political Correctness BS needs to go.

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Halcyon 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

As I said before, the Political Correctness BS needs to go.

Yep, political correctness is like spraying air freshener over crap .

If you clean up the crap you won't need the air freshener.
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- KimW 14 years ago
  
  Oh,see,I got my Thanks button back for two times at least!
  
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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Gee, just a few posts earlier you had agreed with me. Plus, you agreed with Halcyon that political correctness is necessary Kim. Quite a quick turn around.

What I found funny was in one of those blogs Gary posted they couldn't use the word F ucking but some how the racial slur was ok. They also couldn't use one racial slur but decided to use another.

Originally Posted by KimW

As I said before, the Political Correctness BS needs to go.

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

What I found funny was in one of those blogs Gary posted they couldn't use the word F ucking but some how the racial slur was ok. They also couldn't use one racial slur but decided to use another.

I saw that and found it rather amusing myself at first. But when you think about it, you can still be sensitive AND use the word in question. After all the News stories were about the word "coon" not the word "f*cking".

It is an offensive word, but it's all about context. I'd never call anyone that word, so I guess it just doesn't make me uncomfortable to use it in the context of this news story.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Well, f.ucking was part of the phrase. For contextual purposes they should spell it out also don't you think?

Originally Posted by garyv

I saw that and found it rather amusing myself at first. But when you think about it, you can still be sensitive AND use the word in question. After all the News stories were about the word "coon" not the word "f*cking".

It is an offensive word, but it's all about context. I'd never call anyone that word, so I guess it just doesn't make me uncomfortable to use it in the context of this news story.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Gee, just a few posts earlier you had agreed with me. Plus, you agreed with Halcyon that political correctness is necessary Kim. Quite a quick turn around.

What I found funny was in one of those blogs Gary posted they couldn't use the word F ucking but some how the racial slur was ok. They also couldn't use one racial slur but decided to use another.

I went back and read all the threads Tim and you are wrong on all counts.That's really pretty sloppy of you,usually I can trust your posts to be unbiased and factual.I agreed that you were right that some sites would have used it,not that it had to be used.And I also said Gary COULD have used it but it would have made no difference once one saw the video. I'm pretty damn consistent in my belief that being PC is bad for people and our country Tim.
And I didn't even see Halcyon mention PC. If I missed that then my bad, it possbile because I am basically going between some emails and about 6 different threads.
But to clarify I am against PC. And there is NO turn around on that position.
There, is that better for you?

Going back up I see her post AGAINST PC,not for it,so what post are you referring to Tim?

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Kim, you said "I can go along with that." which seems to indicate you agreed with my post. Am I wrong?

You're a smart guy. I'll let you figure out the comment by Halcyon.

Originally Posted by KimW

I went back and read all the threads Tim and you are wrong on all counts.That's really pretty sloppy of you,usually I can trust your posts to be unbiased and factual.I agreed that you were right that some sites would have used it,not that it had to be used.And I also said Gary COULD have used it but it would have made no difference once one saw the video. I'm pretty damn consistent in my belief that being PC is bad for people and our country Tim.
And I didn't even see Halcyon mention PC. If I missed that then my bad, it possbile because I am basically going between some emails and about 6 different threads.
But to clarify I am against PC. And there is NO turn around on that position.
There, is that better for you?

Going back up I see her post AGAINST PC,not for it,so what post are you referring to Tim?

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Kim, you said "I can go along with that." which seems to indicate you agreed with my post. Am I wrong?

You're a smart guy. I'll let you figure out the comment by Halcyon.

Tim, did you read my post? I explained your misconception. And I also saw where I agreed with her that it is CRAP, I still don't see where she condoned it nor did I agree with her condoning it.
And yes, I am a smart guy and so are you.
But for clarification, I said I could go along with your comment that some mainstream sites would use the term racial slur and not the actual term,and that Gary could have also but what would have been the point if they watched the video ? And then I said that it (the recording) is sure to be used in court.

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Halcyon

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Gee, just a few posts earlier you had agreed with me. Plus, you agreed with Halcyon that political correctness is necessary Kim. Quite a quick turn around.

What I found funny was in one of those blogs Gary posted they couldn't use the word F ucking but some how the racial slur was ok. They also couldn't use one racial slur but decided to use another.

Let's get a baseline definition of what political correctness is. We all may be discussing very different things.

There's political correctness and there's respect.

To me political correctness is that la di da way of talking around everything so as not to offend anyone. For example saying African American when Black people call themselves black.
Or saying "he was a nice guy" after a proven jerk dies.

Respect is not calling or using racial slurs around me.
Respect is not calling the jerk a jerk in front of his family.

As said earlier I think political correctness is like putting air freshener on crap. If there was no crap, we wouldn't need the air freshener.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Halcyon, you said if crap was around we wouldn't need air freshener ( PC ). There is crap around still, so we still need the freshener I am assuming.

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Let's get a baseline definition of what political correctness is. We all may be discussing very different things.

There's political correctness and there's respect.

To me political correctness is that la di da way of talking around everything so as not to offend anyone. For example saying African American when Black people call themselves black.
Or saying "he was a nice guy" after a proven jerk dies.

Respect is not calling or using racial slurs around me.
Respect is not calling the jerk a jerk in front of his family.

As said earlier I think political correctness is like putting air freshener on crap. If there was no crap, we wouldn't need the air freshener.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Halcyon, you said if crap was around we wouldn't need air freshener ( PC ). There is crap around still, so we still need the freshener I am assuming.

Tim you're having a dyslexic moment.
This is what she said:

Yep, political correctness is like spraying air freshener over crap .

If you clean up the crap you won't need the air freshener.
04-05-2012 05:10 PM

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Haha. Maybe. To me the quote was saying, and I may have misinterpreted it, Pc = air freshener. Crap = BS that pc tries to eliminate such as racism, sexism etc...

Originally Posted by KimW

Tim you're having a dyslexic moment.
This is what she said:

Yep, political correctness is like spraying air freshener over crap .

If you clean up the crap you won't need the air freshener.
04-05-2012 05:10 PM

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Haha. Maybe. To me the quote was saying, and I may have misinterpreted it, Pc = air freshener. Crap = BS that pc tries to eliminate such as racism, sexism etc...

Ok, and I took it to mean the opposite.

But still, I will never advocate PC, at least we have that clear.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Haha. Maybe. To me the quote was saying, and I may have misinterpreted it, Pc = air freshener. Crap = BS that pc tries to eliminate such as racism, sexism etc...

Air freshener (PC) doesn't eliminate anything. It just just covers it with a different smell temporarily...

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Halcyon 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Air freshener (PC) doesn't eliminate anything. It just just covers it with a different smell temporarily...

That's it.

We need to clean the crap.

But instead of cleaning it we dress it up and try to make it smell nice but deep down everyone still smells it. Nothing smells worse than flowery crap.

Few people have the guts to smell it dead on. Then we're faced with it when cases like Trayvon Martin come up.

We hide it, we ignore it and say things like "whoever smelt it dealt it" to which the reply "whoever denied it supplied it" is given.

What no one is admitting is that at this point we're all shoveling crap and it's stinking up the place.

Edit:
Folks must stop being scared of each other and address the real problems. Until that happens we're in a world of crap.
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thetrafficguy

14 years ago

This case has gotten crazier and crazier.

And the media (and certain reporters) have made it far worse.

And unfortunately many people are now taking it beyond what its about, overshadowing the actual events with a platform for something else.

I hope this gets taken care of in court properly. Gonna leave it at that.

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KimW

14 years ago

I think you're psychic Halcyon.
You actually stated something I tell people all the time.
I have mentioned several times you being black,but never in a disrespectful way,I don't think.But I never ever say anyone is an African American.Why? I think it is also a divisive means of stopping all of us from coming today. If you are an American you are an American,and if you happen to be of African descent,that's fine too. But I am against all hyphenated-American designations.
Again,that is a stupid PC thing that I do not participate in.

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KimW

14 years ago

Oh,and here is your post and my response:

Tim:I disagree. Most news outlets will only use the phrase "racial slur".

Kim: I can go along with that.
He could have said racial slur. I think listening to the video would indicate what they were going for though,not that it really makes a difference in the long run.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

OK, this sounds like you agree with me. No?

Originally Posted by KimW

Oh,and here is your post and my response:

Tim:I disagree. Most news outlets will only use the phrase "racial slur".

Kim: I can go along with that.
He could have said racial slur. I think listening to the video would indicate what they were going for though,not that it really makes a difference in the long run.

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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

OK, this sounds like you agree with me. No?

Yes, on that most news outlets would have probably used the term racial slur, I am definitely in agreement with you on that.

I try to be as straight forward as I can in my responses,which means at times they come across harsh or taken wrong,But I am always willing to try to clarify my meaning if I need to.
And as I said before, I don't get angry,nothing on here is worth that to me, especially peoples friendships.
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thunderbird

14 years ago

I am going to annoy people (and maybe even make enemies) but sometimes "political correctness" seems to me to be a term applied by ignorant people towards educated and well-researched responses.

Other times, political correctness does seem to be abiding by illogical but accepted dogmas and restrictions, eg the accepted custom of calling someone like Bob Marley Black if they're also half White, or calling someone such as George Zimmerman a "White Hispanic" if they're apparently only half White.

It is well-known that crimes are often committed for the most crass of reasons, but political correctness makes it taboo to ask if a woman being skimpily dressed might be a contributing factor in causing an mentally-unbalanced man to rape her, while it's ok to ask if someone's having a wallet half-hanging out of their back pocket might inspire a pick-pocket to steal. It doesn't justify the crime at all (any more than wearing the wrong sports jersey would justify a beating) but it might help elucidate contributing factors in the motive.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I am going to annoy people (and maybe even make enemies) but sometimes "political correctness" seems to me to be a term applied by ignorant people towards educated and well-researched responses. Other times, it does seem to be abiding by illogical but accepted dogmas and restrictions, eg the accepted custom of calling someone like Bob Marley Black if they're also half White, or calling someone such as George Zimmerman a "White Hispanic" if they're apparently only half White. It is well-known that crimes are often committed for the most crass of reasons, but political correctness makes it taboo to ask if a woman being skimpily dressed might be a contributing factor in causing an mentally-unbalanced man to rape her, while it's ok to ask if someone's having a half-hanging out of their back pocket might inspire a pick-pocket to steal. It doesn't justify the crime at all (any more than wearing the wrong sports jersey would justify a beating) but it might help elucidate contributing factors in the motive.

T-Bird,
I'm sorry but you completely lost me with that post.For instance what are you saying here:
"while it's ok to ask if someone's having a half-hanging out of their back pocket might inspire a pick-pocket to steal. "

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thunderbird

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

T-Bird,
I'm sorry but you completely lost me with that post.For instance what are you saying here:
"while it's ok to ask if someone's having a half-hanging out of their back pocket might inspire a pick-pocket to steal. "

I know my post was all over the place (sort of a Seasoned moment, I guess, lol). I did edit that sentence to, "having a wallet half-hanging out of their back pocket"

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I know my post was all over the place (sort of a Seasoned moment, I guess, lol). I did edit that sentence to, "having a wallet half-hanging out of their back pocket"

Well, now THAT I can understand....lol

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

I do think PC can be something that goes way too far but I also think it can also serve a purpose when used intelligently. I mean, people should try to be aware of other people's feelings about things and that is all PC is in it's basic form.

Halcyon said "Respect is not calling or using racial slurs around me." That was the reason for my original post about the racial slur used. I don't think Gary would use that word against anyone and understand he used it to show context, but it is offensive to many nevertheless. Perhaps I overreacted in posting something about it though. I think I'll take his advice and get over it.

Originally Posted by thunderbird

I am going to annoy people (and maybe even make enemies) but sometimes "political correctness" seems to me to be a term applied by ignorant people towards educated and well-researched responses.

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enterpriseunlimited

14 years ago

It is a sad reflection of the world we live in... and people who try to ignore that racism & racial profiling exists are in denial.

Racism & racial profiling is not just assuming that the young black man in a hoodie is a gang member or some kind of criminal- it is also the assumption that Asian women are submissive & docile, that every Hispanic you see is an illegal Mexican immigrant, or that every Patel owns a hotel or convenience store. It is not just the KKK or Neo-Nazis.

It is the unspoken assumption made without conscious thought, that endangers people when in situations like this. From Zimmerman's perspective, instead of seeing a teenage male walking, he saw a young black thug in a hoodie who was in the commission of a crime (even though he hadn't done anything). Once Zimmerman chose to ignore 911's instructions and discharged his firearm- he became a murderer, not a vigilante.

The Zimmerman PR campaign is to paint him a sympathetic figure to the general public and help him "win" in the "Court of Public Opinion"... the exact same court that demonizes OJ Simpson, even after he was found "Not Guilty" in a court of law. The same public opinion that deems Monica Lewinsky a whore or slut, and absolves former Pres. Bill Clinton of being a habitual adulterer, even though he was the mature adult in the situation.

The bottom line is that we do not live in a world where race, nationality, sexual preference, religion, gender or disabilities do not matter. This is a world full of -isms that matter to each of us in different ways. To some of us, these -isms make us kind & considerate- but to others, impatient & disrespectful. The only thing we can do as individuals is to decide which path to walk in life- the path of agape love or the path of destructive hate & fear.

As for me, I choose agape love. But that doesn't mean I walk blindly in the world thinking that no one would dare hate or kill someone based upon something as superficial as their complexion. This is not a statement of politics or ulterior motives. I am not running for the office of Chief Warrior of the United States. It is simply an observation & analysis of the situation and the world we live in.

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waterotter

14 years ago

This article and first video raise some interesting questions regarding Zimmerman's version of events.

Trayvon Martin: George Zimmerman's story may not hold up to scrutiny

Zimmerman's lawyers will be setting up this website to raise money for Z's defense and expenses.
http://www.zimmermandefense.com - they don't have the site up yet.

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Kay King 14 years ago

What a strange thing the media is - after so many days of constant coverage - today it moved on to other issues.

Like a light switch was turned off - one day the story is a crisis and with nothing changed the next day there's a new crisis and a new story.

What an odd world.
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waterotter

14 years ago

I believe there's a gag order in effect now.

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Kay King

14 years ago

LOL - I think what happened was some networks got called out on their over zealous comments. Now the FBI is involved and they don't want to be so obviously manipulating facts.

On the MSNBC site there is mention of the FBI reviewing claims made about the case - and then the report goes on to say NBC reviewed the tapes of calls made to police by Zimmerman. ..

Here's what they NOW report:

There were no calls to 911 in his previous calls to police - other calls Zimmerman made were to a non-emergency police number.

There were NO calls where Zimmerman mentioned the race of a person until after the dispatcher answering ASKED for a description or race.

That is directly opposite what MSNBC "reported" a week ago - but it looks like getting caught editing a conversation to suit them caused them to use some discretion in their reporting.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Here's what they NOW report:

There were no calls to 911 in his previous calls to police - other calls Zimmerman made were to a non-emergency police number.

There were NO calls where Zimmerman mentioned the race of a person until after the dispatcher answering ASKED for a description or race.

That is directly opposite what MSNBC "reported" a week ago - but it looks like getting caught editing a conversation to suit them caused them to use some discretion in their reporting.

According to the post from the Daily Beast, there were 911 calls. TEL is the abbreviation for non-911 and 911 is the abbreviation for 911. I've removed the TEL calls, leaving the 911 calls he made, most of which appear to be reports that should not have been made using a 911 number.

35. March 18, 2011 - 9:26 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Animals
Report: Zimmerman requested an officer meet him regarding a pit bull in his garage

31. June 26, 2010 - 11:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: "Loud party ... approx 50 subjs & blocking the street"

30. June 12, 2010 - 11:13 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Subject "at the clubhouse & pool areas having a party"

26. Jan. 1, 2010 - 4:34 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Zimmerman reports reckless driver in "purplish Ford Ranger single cab"

24. Nov. 21, 2009 - 2:26 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Unclear

22. Sept. 22, 2009 - 6:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: "Yellow speed bike ... was speeding and weaving in and out of traffic and doing wheelies"

17. June 10, 2009 - 1:55 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Alarm
Report: Fire alarm going off

14. Jan. 5, 2009 - 10:53 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Alarm
Report: Fire alarm going off

12. Nov. 25, 2007 - 12:21 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: White male ex-roommate last seen wearing a red Florida State University shirt

8. Sept. 23, 2005 - 7:03 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Zimmerman's "little sister just call him from above" his address and advises "there was a" suspicious person "at the front door"

7. Sept. 21, 2005 - 9:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Animals
Report: Reports a stray dog

6. April 27, 2005 - 12:40 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Neighbor
Report: Open garage door

5. March 17, 2005 - 7:21 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Maintenance
Report: Pothole "that is blocking the road"

4. Oct. 20, 2004 - 9:13 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Drunk pedestrian walking in the road

3. Aug. 20, 2004 - 11:33 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Neighbor
Report: Reports an open garage door

2. Aug.12, 2004 - 10:03 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Repeats earlier report

1. Aug. 12, 2004 - 9:59 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Places a call reporting a male in a green Ford pickup

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I was the same a while back - but no more. Fox has actually improved its NEWS coverage considerably in the past couple of years while MSNBC has turned into an openly partisan progressive media outlet with no apologies.

I agree with this for the most part,but I watch Morning Joe with Joe Scarborough(sp?) and it seems to me to at least adrees facts on both sides,not just a one sided view.

MSNBC is taking heat in some corners now for the Sharpton problem it created. They have allowed Sharpton to spend days promoting the race card in the Martin case and leading protests and giving speeches - and then he returns to MSNBC at night and spends an hour talking about the same issue.
He making the news and then reporting on himself as news.

Adding Sharpton pumped the sagging ratings for now - but it's going to come back and bite the network if it keeps happening.

My problem is I'm either a left leaning conservative or a right leaning liberal - and both seem to be out of favor these days

Same here Kay,which is why I now say when asked that I an a Libertarian.
lib·er·tar·i·an [lib-er-tair-ee-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who advocates liberty, especially with regard to thought or conduct.
2.
a person who maintains the doctrine of free will ( distinguished from necessitarian).

Originally Posted by Kay King

Kim - I will say only Fox remain as a network that hasn't had to apologize (yet) on this case.

I could have sworn Fox has been found to have "misreported" some thing,but I could be wrong and I am not going to look it up.

NBC apologized for an "editing decision" that made Zimmerman's call sound racist.

ABC apologized for airing the tape showing "no injuries" instead of the enhanced tape of Zimmerman - and is now accused of deliberately blurring the initial video shown.

CNN has retracted it's statement that an enhanced audio revealed a racial epithet. According to CNN they thought it was racist but actually the word wasn't "coon" - it was "cold"...as in "f-in cold".

Great track record for the media:rolleyes: ....and probably why they all decided to move on to something else at the same time. Guess I'll do the same.

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

According to the post from the Daily Beast, there were 911 calls. TEL is the abbreviation for non-911 and 911 is the abbreviation for 911. I've removed the TEL calls, leaving the 911 calls he made, most of which appear to be reports that should not have been made using a 911 number.

If you are going to go back 8 years I would have to say we could probably find many people across the nation that have made this many,if not more, calls.

35. March 18, 2011 - 9:26 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Animals
Report: Zimmerman requested an officer meet him regarding a pit bull in his garage

31. June 26, 2010 - 11:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: "Loud party ... approx 50 subjs & blocking the street"

30. June 12, 2010 - 11:13 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Subject "at the clubhouse & pool areas having a party"

26. Jan. 1, 2010 - 4:34 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Zimmerman reports reckless driver in "purplish Ford Ranger single cab"

24. Nov. 21, 2009 - 2:26 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Unclear

22. Sept. 22, 2009 - 6:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: "Yellow speed bike ... was speeding and weaving in and out of traffic and doing wheelies"

17. June 10, 2009 - 1:55 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Alarm
Report: Fire alarm going off

14. Jan. 5, 2009 - 10:53 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Alarm
Report: Fire alarm going off

12. Nov. 25, 2007 - 12:21 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: White male ex-roommate last seen wearing a red Florida State University shirt

8. Sept. 23, 2005 - 7:03 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Zimmerman's "little sister just call him from above" his address and advises "there was a" suspicious person "at the front door"

7. Sept. 21, 2005 - 9:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Animals
Report: Reports a stray dog

6. April 27, 2005 - 12:40 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Neighbor
Report: Open garage door

5. March 17, 2005 - 7:21 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Maintenance
Report: Pothole "that is blocking the road"

4. Oct. 20, 2004 - 9:13 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Drunk pedestrian walking in the road

3. Aug. 20, 2004 - 11:33 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Neighbor
Report: Reports an open garage door

2. Aug.12, 2004 - 10:03 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Repeats earlier report

1. Aug. 12, 2004 - 9:59 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Places a call reporting a male in a green Ford pickup

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

If you are going to go back 8 years I would have to say we could probably find many people across the nation that have made this many,if not more, calls.

Yeah, I call 911 to report stray dogs, potholes and people loitering all the time. Don't you?

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah, I call 911 to report stray dogs, potholes and people loitering all the time. Don't you?

You should NEVER underestimate a pothole...!

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

You should NEVER underestimate a pothole...!

lol ... yeah, I know. I'm not very civic minded. :p

The only time I ever called 911 was when I called my doctor's emergency number and he told me to call 911 immediately. I said, you're sh*tting me, right? This can wait ... I was wrong and it couldn't wait.

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Dave Patterson

14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

lol ... yeah, I know. I'm not very civic minded. :p

The only time I ever called 911 was when I called my doctor's emergency number and he told me to call 911 immediately. I said, you're sh*tting me, right? This can wait ... I was wrong and it couldn't wait.

I've got a neighbor thats a 911 operator....she's got stories.

She told me the other day about some lady calling to ask her to see if she could get through to her Dr's office because she had called several times and kept getting put on hold so she thought something "fishy" was going on...

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

I've got a neighbor thats a 911 operator....she's got stories.

She told me the other day about some lady calling to ask her to see if she could get through to her Dr's office because she had called several times and kept getting put on hold so she thought something "fishy" was going on...

I had a neighbor call 911 about my house because I left the door unlocked and went out of town for the evening.

How he knew my door was unlocked was not divulged by him but I came home and there were cops wandering around my house. They were a bit embarrassed when I walked in on them and they had to explain why they were there.

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garyv 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

she thought something "fishy" was going on...

Was it her Gynecologist? Sorry couldn't resist.
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- sbucciarel Banned 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by garyv
  
  Was it her Gynecologist? Sorry couldn't resist.
  
  omg...
  
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KimW 14 years ago

Originally Posted by sbucciarel

Yeah, I call 911 to report stray dogs, potholes and people loitering all the time. Don't you?

Obviously trying to make what I said into something I didn't.
Let me post it again,maybe you will understand it the 2nd time.

If you are going to go back 8 years I would have to say we could probably find many people across the nation that have made this many,if not more, calls.

I personally don't make any calls to 911,I don't think,but I'm pretty old so I could be wrong,that I have EVER called 911 myself.
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KimW

14 years ago

I'm really surprised because MSNBC WAS one of the few I actually 1/2 way trusted. I will still watch morning Joe tho.
FOX is the one I never trust.

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Kay King

14 years ago

I was the same a while back - but no more. Fox has actually improved its NEWS coverage considerably in the past couple of years while MSNBC has turned into an openly partisan progressive media outlet with no apologies.

MSNBC is taking heat in some corners now for the Sharpton problem it created. They have allowed Sharpton to spend days promoting the race card in the Martin case and leading protests and giving speeches - and then he returns to MSNBC at night and spends an hour talking about the same issue.
He making the news and then reporting on himself as news.

Adding Sharpton pumped the sagging ratings for now - but it's going to come back and bite the network if it keeps happening.

My problem is I'm either a left leaning conservative or a right leaning liberal - and both seem to be out of favor these days

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Kay King

14 years ago

Kim - I will say only Fox remain as a network that hasn't had to apologize (yet) on this case.

NBC apologized for an "editing decision" that made Zimmerman's call sound racist.

ABC apologized for airing the tape showing "no injuries" instead of the enhanced tape of Zimmerman - and is now accused of deliberately blurring the initial video shown.

CNN has retracted it's statement that an enhanced audio revealed a racial epithet. According to CNN they thought it was racist but actually the word wasn't "coon" - it was "cold"...as in "f-in cold".

Great track record for the media:rolleyes: ....and probably why they all decided to move on to something else at the same time. Guess I'll do the same.

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TimPhelan

14 years ago

Well, there was the Geraldo apology. The overall media coverage has been sloppy to say the least though.

Originally Posted by Kay King

Kim - I will say only Fox remain as a network that hasn't had to apologize (yet) on this case.

NBC apologized for an "editing decision" that made Zimmerman's call sound racist.

ABC apologized for airing the tape showing "no injuries" instead of the enhanced tape of Zimmerman - and is now accused of deliberately blurring the initial video shown.

CNN has retracted it's statement that an enhanced audio revealed a racial epithet. According to CNN they thought it was racist but actually the word wasn't "coon" - it was "cold"...as in "f-in cold".

Great track record for the media:rolleyes: ....and probably why they all decided to move on to something else at the same time. Guess I'll do the same.

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sbucciarel

Banned 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Kim - I will say only Fox remain as a network that hasn't had to apologize (yet) on this case.

NBC apologized for an "editing decision" that made Zimmerman's call sound racist.

ABC apologized for airing the tape showing "no injuries" instead of the enhanced tape of Zimmerman - and is now accused of deliberately blurring the initial video shown.

CNN has retracted it's statement that an enhanced audio revealed a racial epithet. According to CNN they thought it was racist but actually the word wasn't "coon" - it was "cold"...as in "f-in cold".

Great track record for the media:rolleyes: ....and probably why they all decided to move on to something else at the same time. Guess I'll do the same.

No apologies that I've found coming from the right wing except for the apology by Geraldo Rivera

1. Prominent conservative websites published fake photos of Martin. Twitchy, a new website run by prominent conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, promoted a photo — purportedly from Martin’s Facebook page — that shows Martin in saggy pants and flipping the bird. The photo, which spread quickly on conservative websites and Twitter, is intended to paint Martin as a thug. As Twitchy later acknowledged, it is not a photo of Trayvon Martin. [Examiner]

2. The Sanford Police selectively leaked irrelevant, negative information about Martin. The authorities told the Orlando Sentinel this morning that Trayvon was suspended from school for ten days “after being found with an empty marijuana baggie.” There is no evidence that Martin was under the influence of drugs at the time of his death, nor would prior possession of marijuana be a reason for killing him. It’s unclear what the relevance of the leak was, other than to smear Martin. [Orlando Sentinel]

3. On Fox News, Geraldo said that Martin was dressed “like a wannabe gangster.” Bill O’Reilly agreed with him. The sole evidence is that Martin was wearing a hoodie. Geraldo added that “everyone that ever stuck up a convenience store” was wearing a hoodie. [ThinkProgress; The Blaze]

4. Without any evidence, prominent right-wing bloggers suggested that Martin was a drug dealer. Right-wing blogger Dan Riehl advances the theory, also advanced in a widely linked peice on a site called Wagist. There does not appear to be any evidence to support this claim whatsoever. [Riehl World View]

5. Without any evidence, a right-wing columnist alleged that Martin assaulted a bus driver. Unlike Zimmerman, Trayvon has no documented history of violence. This allegation continues to be advanced by a blogger on the Examiner even after the real reason was leaked to the police and confirmed by the family. [Miami Herald; Examiner]

6. Zimmerman’s friend says Martin was to blame because he was disrespectful to Zimmerman. Zimmerman’s friend Joe Oliver said that Martin would not have been shot to death if Trayvon had just said “I’m staying with my parents.” Of course, Zimmerman was not a police officer, and Trayvon had no duty to tell him who he was or where he was going. [NBC News]

In addition, the Sanford police dept drug and alcohol tested a teen victim but not the killer. What an oversight!

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I was the same a while back - but no more. Fox has actually improved its NEWS coverage considerably in the past couple of years while MSNBC has turned into an openly partisan progressive media outlet with no apologies.

MSNBC is taking heat in some corners now for the Sharpton problem it created.

They have allowed Sharpton to spend days promoting the race card in the Martin case and leading protests and giving speeches - and then he returns to MSNBC at night and spends an hour talking about the same issue.

He making the news and then reporting on himself as news.

Adding Sharpton pumped the sagging ratings for now - but it's going to come back and bite the network if it keeps happening.

My problem is I'm either a left leaning conservative or a right leaning liberal - and both seem to be out of favor these days

First of all...

... the left leaning conservative and the right leaning liberal stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

Perhaps that's one of the major reasons for your confusion.

You said...

"They (MSNBC) have allowed Sharpton to spend days promoting the 'race card'...

... in the Martin case"

I say...

Once again...

Just because Sharpton is involved does not mean he's playing some type of "race card."

I understand just his mere presence in any situation makes you and the people on the right launch accusations of Sharpton playing the "race card" ...

but...

... would you please find some "race card" type statements from Sharpton revolving around this case?

I asked you before but you wouldn't or couldn't comply.

Once again...

The anger in this case is directed at the Sanford police department and that local criminal justice system in particular...

... not white people in general.

Some people simply can not and/or do not want to understand the difference.

I wonder why???

Some people can't get over their feelings...

... and some have an agenda to promote and with some people it's both.

Trayvon Martin was shot, eulogized and buried, without any media sensation.

For 10 days, his killing passed as strictly a local news item in Central Florida and chances are...

... Mr. Z. would have walked away scott free if Sharpton and others had not gotten involved.

It was the Martin's attorney Crump, who can't be blamed for seeking every available resource to help his clients get justice...

...who contacted Sharpton, and Sharpton who helped organize the largest rally, in Sanford, which was among the events that made Trayvon’s death a national conversation.

I guess you and the good people on the right would consider this inflammatory and somehow playing the "race card"...

Is Al Sharpton Inciting Racial tension in the...

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

First of all...

... the left leaning conservative and the right leaning liberal stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. I understood it perfectly .

Perhaps that's one of the major reasons for your confusion.

You said...

"They (MSNBC) have allowed Sharpton to spend days promoting the 'race card'...

... in the Martin case"

I say...

Once again...

Just because Sharpton is involved does not mean he's playing some type of "race card."

Of course it doesn't,to you,but then I didn't see her say it was valid,only that MSNBC was using it to bolster sagging ratings.

I understand just his mere presence in any situation makes you and the people on the right launch accusations of Sharpton playing the "race card" ...

but...

... would you please find some "race card" type statements from Sharpton revolving around this case?

I asked you before but you wouldn't or couldn't comply.

Once again...

The anger in this case is directed at the Sanford police department and that local criminal justice system in particular...

... not white people in general.

Some people simply can not and/or do not want to understand the difference.

I wonder why???

Some people can't get over their feelings...

... and some have an agenda to promote and with some people it's both.

Trayvon Martin was shot, eulogized and buried, without any media sensation.

For 10 days, his killing passed as strictly a local news item in Central Florida and chances are...

... Mr. Z. would have walked away scott free if Sharpton and others had not gotten involved.

It was the Martin's attorney Crump, who can't be blamed for seeking every available resource to help his clients get justice...

...who contacted Sharpton, and Sharpton who helped organize the largest rally, in Sanford, which was among the events that made Trayvon's death a national conversation.

It's been posted in this thread before that his parents contacted Sharpton,so which was it?

I guess you and the good people on the right would consider this inflammatory and somehow playing the "race card"...

I love how you like to add the little jabs at some of us.
I've not seen Kay post anything that indicates she is what you would call a member of the "right".Her posts are usually very objective for both sides of the issues.

Is Al Sharpton Inciting Racial tension in the Trayvon Martin Case - YouTube

As it is there are several in this thread alone that continually seem to want to make it a race issue while many of us think it should be focused on the facts that there is a dead teenager shot by someone for no cause.

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

As it is there are several in this thread alone that continually seem to want to make it a race issue while many of us think it should be focused on the facts that there is a dead teenager shot by someone for no cause.

You said...

Just because you don't understand it (the left wing conservative/right wing liberal stuff)...

...doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. I understood it perfectly .

I say...

You understanding it makes perfect sense to me.

BTW...

Kay is the one saying Sharpton is playing the "race card".

My point is Kay is still saying that Shaprton is playing some sort of race card in this case

and I say... ( as I have said before in this very thread )

"Show me the money!"

You said...

It's been posted in this thread before that his parents contacted Sharpton,so which was it?

I say...

Does it matter that their attorney contacted Sharpton, I'm sure with the permission of Trayvon's parents??

Not really.

You said...

I love how you like to add the little jabs at some of us.

I've not seen Kay post anything that indicates she is what you would call a member of the "right".

Her posts are usually very objective for both sides of the issues.

She may not be a member of the right...

but...

...she is clearly in harmony with the people on the right on whether Sharpton is playing the race card or not - in this situation.

...and there is no doubt of that.

And that's all I alluded to.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention...

... but every chance she gets she alludes to Sharpton playing some sort of race card.

I'm responding to someone who continues to call Sharpton a race card player and has also accused the Congressional Black Caucus of play the race card in this case also.

And I disagree.

All The Best!!

TL

Ps. You sir have still not showed me how I contradicted myself in post #919 of this thread after you proclaimed that I had done so.

You can show me the money also.

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KimW

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

You said...

Just because you don't understand it (the left wing conservative/right wing liberal stuff)...

...doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. I understood it perfectly .

I say...

You understanding it makes perfect sense to me.

As someone else posted, down the rabbit hole we go...lol

BTW...

Kay is the one saying Sharpton is playing the "race card".

My point is Kay is still saying that Shaprton is playing some sort of race card in this case

and I say... ( as I have said before in this very thread )

"Show me the money!"

I already pointed out what you apparently don't understand about Kay's post.Nothing more is needed.

You said...

It's been posted in this thread before that his parents contacted Sharpton,so which was it?

I say...

Does it matter that their attorney contacted Sharpton, I'm sure with the permission of Trayvon's parents??

Not really.

Except that its been stated over and over that it was his parent.does it matter? Only in the search for the truth and not the different spins some like to put on it.

You said...

I love how you like to add the little jabs at some of us.

I've not seen Kay post anything that indicates she is what you would call a member of the "right".

Her posts are usually very objective for both sides of the issues.

She may not be a member of the right...

but...

...she is clearly in harmony with the people on the right on whether Sharpton is playing the race card or not - in this situation.

...and there is no doubt of that.

And that's all I alluded to.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention...

or maybe you haven't?

... but every chance she gets she alludes to Sharpton playing some sort of race card.

I'm responding to someone who continues to call Sharpton a race card player.

And I disagree.

All The Best!!

TL

Ps. You sir have still not showed me how I contradicted myself in post #919 of this thread after you proclaimed that I had done so.

You can show me the money also.

Well, I don't feel the need to "show you the money" because any person can read it themselves and see.

Just like you have now contradicted yourself again in this post,but this time its contradicting an earlier post, the contradiction is not in the same past as the other one I mentioned is.

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Kay King

14 years ago

TL -

I read an article last night on the Wall Street Journal that explains my view on Jackson/Sharpton/et al better than I can explain it myself.

I said earlier that I felt people were taking advantage of Trayvon for their own purposes - apparently I'm not alone.

Please read the article linked below and tell me what you think of it. It's not about minute facts in this case or conjecture - Shelby Steele is a recognized expert on race relations.

One of the shocking comments made was by Jackson, who said in a Trayvon Martin rally speech:

"There is power in blood....we must turn a moment into a movement"

PLEASE read this article:

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin - WSJ.com

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garyv 14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

PLEASE read this article:

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin - WSJ.com

Great article!
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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

TL -

I read an article last night on the Wall Street Journal that explains my view on Jackson/Sharpton/et al better than I can explain it myself.

I said earlier that I felt people were taking advantage of Trayvon for their own purposes - apparently I'm not alone.

Please read the article linked below and tell me what you think of it. It's not about minute facts in this case or conjecture - Shelby Steele is a recognized expert on race relations.

One of the shocking comments made was by Jackson, who said in a Trayvon Martin rally speech:
PLEASE read this article:

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin - WSJ.com

Without even reading it it confirms what I have said in my post.

OK, I read it so that you couldn't say I didn't even read it.

I read it and it is basically what I expected.

You are in agreement with folks on the right regarding Mr. Sharpton.

- The Wall Street journal is a right wing publication run by of all people Rupert Murdock.

And...

IMHO...

- Shelby Steel has made his living sucking up to right wingers since he is one of a few prominent black people on the right.

He's just not as loud and obnoxious as that idiot Alan Keys.

Lots of people have exploited Trayvon and in many ways.

A good question to ask in regards to Mr. Sharpton, & the Trayvon situation is...

If Mr. Sharpton had not become involved, would the Martin family have any hope of maybe, just maybe...

... getting justice for the killing of their son?

Before Sharpton came on the case this was a local killing that would have been swept under the rug.

That is a fact.

Regarding Jessie's statement of...

"There is power in blood . . . we must turn a moment into a movement."

He didn't call for anyone's blood.

And that would be nice if Trayvon's death served as a catalyst of some sort for the serious improvement of the black community.

All The Best!!

TL

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garyv

14 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Without even reading it it confirms what I have said in my post.

OK, I read it so that you couldn't say I didn't even read it.

I read it and it is basically what I expected.

You are in agreement with folks on the right regarding Mr. Sharpton.

- The Wall Street journal is a right wing publication run by of all people Rupert Murdock.

And...

IMHO...

- Shelby Steel has made his living sucking up to right wingers since he is one of a few prominent black people on the right.

He's just not as loud and obnoxious as that idiot Alan Keys.

Lots of people have exploited Trayvon and in many ways.

A good question to ask in regards to Mr. Sharpton, & the Trayvon situation is...

If Mr. Sharpton had not become involved, would the Martin family have any hope of maybe, just maybe...

... getting justice for the killing of their son?

Before Sharpton came on the case this was a local killing that would have been swept under the rug.

That is a fact.

Regarding Jessie's statement of...

"There is power in blood . . . we must turn a moment into a movement."

He didn't call for anyone's blood.

And that would be nice if Trayvon's death served as a catalyst of some sort for the serious improvement of the black community.

All The Best!!

TL

Unless of course Zimmerman was telling the truth. Or they figure out that Zimmerman is not White. Then their whole - white on black oppression ritual kind makes no sense in this story.

Where's the Spanish version of Al Sharpton? Someone to stand up against the Mobs that have already been proven to be perverting the truth for their own agendas?

And by the way - it's obvious that you didn't read the article. Just sayin

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TLTheLiberator

14 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Unless of course Zimmerman was telling the truth.

Or they figure out that Zimmerman is not White.

Then their whole - white on black oppression ritual kind makes no sense in this story.

Where's the Spanish version of Al Sharpton?

Someone to stand up against the Mobs that have already been proven to be perverting the truth for their own agendas?

And by the way - it's obvious that you didn't read the article. Just sayin

I swear on my kid's life, I read the article.

And it's exactly what I expected a right-wing rehashing of Al Sharpton & Jessie Jackson that ignores the important fact that without them...

... the killing would have been swept under a rug.

So, just continue to ignore that fact.

And once again...

... even you said Mr. Z. should be tried in a court of law,

... unless you really don't believe it...

...perhaps you simply didn't want to seem like the odd person out.

You make the choice:

Al Sharpton/Jessie and possible justice for the Martin family or...

... no Al Sharpton/Jessie...

... and the killing gets swept under the rug.

Plus your rantings about some sort of racial divide caused by this case are not in in with reality.

Why not??

Because of the simple fact that...

Most American people white, black, Hispanic and Asian agree that Z. should be charged.

I bet it's close to 70% overall in favor of a trial.

So where's the racial divide??

That so-called racial divide caused by this case is in your mind and in your mind alone along with others who think like you.

BTW...

Mr. Z. doesn't even have to be white since he's so wrong.

Do you think the Martin family would have just let it go if a black person would have killed Trayvon in the same manner and the police dept. would have responded the same way?

All The Best!!

TL

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MissTerraK

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

TL -

I read an article last night on the Wall Street Journal that explains my view on Jackson/Sharpton/et al better than I can explain it myself.

I said earlier that I felt people were taking advantage of Trayvon for their own purposes - apparently I'm not alone.

Please read the article linked below and tell me what you think of it. It's not about minute facts in this case or conjecture - Shelby Steele is a recognized expert on race relations.

One of the shocking comments made was by Jackson, who said in a Trayvon Martin rally speech:
PLEASE read this article:

Shelby Steele: The Exploitation of Trayvon Martin - WSJ.com

Excellent article Kay!

I agree wholeheartedly and have stated the some of the same things, however not near as elegantly as this author.

Terra

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enterpriseunlimited

14 years ago

I wonder if all of these retractions and the "radio silence" are related to the fact that Zimmerman's father is/was a judge...

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smartiewriter

14 years ago

I also would like to hear both sides of the story. The way that it's told in the media definitely makes it seem like Mr. Z was in the wrong and is possibly racist. But I haven't heard that much from the other side in defense yet.

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commercee

14 years ago

Originally Posted by smartiewriter

I also would like to hear both sides of the story. The way that it's told in the media definitely makes it seem like Mr. Z was in the wrong and is possibly racist. But I haven't heard that much from the other side in defense yet.

We'll never know both sides of the story since Martin has passed.

There's a Wiki on the entire story.

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