Apple 'Sidesteps' Billions in Corporate Taxes - As they should!

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Joe Mobley 12 years ago

An update. I just saw this Times of India story. It gives more detail on how Apple legally reduced it's tax obligation.

How Apple saves taxes - The Times of India

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DBracey

12 years ago

I find it interesting that a lot of people are referring to this news as tax evasion. Tax evasion is illegal. What Apple is doing is legal, yes? Ergo...

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12 years ago

What Apple practices is tax avoidance. What Al Capone practiced was tax evasion.

Apple took advantage of the tax laws as they are written. How is that dishonest? How is that tax evasion?

People can whine all they want, but I don't know of anyone who knowingly pays more taxes than they are required to.

It appears to me that Apple has better accountants than WalMart...

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Chris Worner

12 years ago

Anybody who thinks people should give more tax dollars than they need to to the Obama administration need their heads examined.

-Chris

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hardraysnight

12 years ago

is this the latest form of outsourcing

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12 years ago

There is a difference between legal and moral.

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

There is a difference between legal and moral.

I couldn't have said it better myself Kim!

And who would have thought that Walmart had morals?

Terra
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12 years ago

Well,I'm used to people comparing apples to oranges, but not Apple to Wal-Mart!

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TimPhelan 12 years ago

Yeah, having factories in China and exploiting their workers to make a bigger profit is also legal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/bu...pagewanted=all
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12 years ago

Tim,
See post number 9.

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thunderbird

12 years ago

So, does that have anything to do with why US infrastructure is crumbling?

"We haven't had the kind of investment or the resources to put the investment into it to keep our infractructure strong."

America's crumbling infrastructure - YouTube

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

As a share of the economy, Europe invests more than twice what we do in infrastructure; China about four times as much.

But we in America are having trouble summing the political will to take care of business...
... because we have a obstructionist group...
... in control of the house of Representatives...
... that wants everyone to believe that we are MC Hammer broke instead of Martha Steward broke...
... and all we can do is cut, cut and cut some more.

When the real reason for their obstruction is their economic philosophy which is that...
... they don't believe in national infrastructure projects.
- Gov has no role to play in our economy.
- Don't get in the middle of the business/consumer/worker situation - what ever happens - happens.
- They don't believe in the concept of national economics and believe the free market is always right, just and fair.
- Just give more and more money to the wealthy via the tax code and it will trickle down to the rest of us.

Thunderbird, these ain't Eisenhower republicans. ( from the 1950's )
These ain't even Nixon republicans...

... who by the way started the EPA, and when inflation was getting out of control, froze wages and prices for a time - all so-called left leaning moves.

Today, these people would probably be against our extensive national hi-way system that was built by Eisenhower despite the obvious economic benefits it would bring - thanks to their economic philosophy.

All The Best!!

TL

"all we can do is cut, cut and cut some more."
Kindly point out the last time federal spending went down.

"Just give more and more money to the wealthy via the tax code and it will trickle down to the rest of us."
Why are you so envious of the wealthy? You covet what they have, then cry that it's the function of a government to take it from them and give it to you. Why don't you go out and do the work and become wealthy yourself?

"... who by the way started the EPA, and when inflation was getting out of control, froze wages and prices for a time - all so-called left leaning moves."
And caused such a disaster that we weren't able to dig out until the Reagan tax cuts.

What I don't understand - I really don't - is how people came up with the idea that the function of a government is to provide for one group of people at the expense of another. They think it's all right for the tax collector, by force of arms, to cause a person to give up that which they've rightfully earned and just plain give it to someone else.

I guess I do understand, after all. Envy - nothing more, nothing less. Someone wants what someone else has, and uses force to grab it.

If the statists had any moral fiber at all, they'd at least be providing Vaseline.

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12 years ago

Ridiculous! I guess Warren Buffett is envious of other rich people that's why he wants them to pay the same percentage in taxes as his secretary. LOl. Where do you come up with this sh@t?

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

I guess I do understand, after all. Envy - nothing more, nothing less. Someone wants what someone else has, and uses force to grab it.

.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Ridiculous! I guess Warren Buffett is envious of other rich people that's why he wants them to pay the same percentage in taxes as his secretary. LOl. Where do you come up with this sh@t?

Please, you're descending to the ridiculous.

I do have a fix for it, though - lower the secretary's tax rate. Then they'd be paying the same rate and everyone would be happy.

Except, of course, for the people who thing the secretary has too much, more than she needs, and it's the government's job to relieve her of the excess.

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Joe Mobley 12 years ago

Overcome by the merely obvious! Excellent Steve.

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

I do have a fix for it, though - lower the secretary's tax rate.

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12 years ago

Haha. Lets just get rid of all taxes! Why stop at just lowering them!? What are you? A freaking socialist!

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

I do have a fix for it, though - lower the secretary's tax rate. Then they'd be paying the same rate and everyone would be happy.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Lets just get rid of all taxes! Why stop at just lowering them!?

NOW you're talking!

Tim for President!!!

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12 years ago

It's a great platform. To pay off the debt, rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, pay for the wars, etc... we can have volunteers stand out in front of local Walgreens and Walmarts ringing a bell and pointing to a metal red, white and blue kettle. Plus, we can have bake sales and newspaper drives!

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

NOW you're talking!

Tim for President!!!

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's a great platform. To pay off the debt, rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, pay for the wars, etc... we can have volunteers stand out in front of local Walgreens and Walmarts ringing a bell and pointing to a metal red, white and blue kettle. Plus, we can have bake sales and newspaper drives!

Been working for the Salvation Army for decades... lol

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's a great platform. To pay off the debt, rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, pay for the wars, etc... we can have volunteers stand out in front of local Walgreens and Walmarts ringing a bell and pointing to a metal red, white and blue kettle. Plus, we can have bake sales and newspaper drives!

How about this:
The country live debt free just as the people used to and still should?
You can rebuild the infrastructure by actually hiring Americans to do the work instead of letting places like CA outsource to China?
We can actually NOT PARTICIPATE in illegal and unnecessary wars,what a concept,eh?
We can have volunteers that actually learn the value of community service.
I know ,these are radical ideas, wish I had thought of them,but they are several hundred years old.

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TimPhelan 12 years ago

So, you want us to be like China I see!

Originally Posted by KimW

The country live debt free just as the people used to and still should?
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- KimW 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  So, you want us to be like China I see!
  
  No Tim, that country that used to do this was America.....you should be able to remember those days,your just a few years younger than I am.
  
  By the way,your statement made absolutely zero sense.
  
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ThomM

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

It's a great platform. To pay off the debt, rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, pay for the wars, etc... we can have volunteers stand out in front of local Walgreens and Walmarts ringing a bell and pointing to a metal red, white and blue kettle. Plus, we can have bake sales and newspaper drives!

Or we can outsource to Chinese companies like California does:rolleyes:

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Haha. Lets just get rid of all taxes! Why stop at just lowering them!? What are you? A freaking socialist!

I thought it was a perfectly logical solution.

I can follow your logic, such as it is

, for the most part, but this time I'm stumped. How does getting rid of taxes make me a socialist? :confused: Sorry, that one went over my head.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

I laugh when I here socialists and communists attempt to use this analogy. Robin Hood wasn't stealing from the greedy rich to give to the needy, he was railing against over taxation and stole from the government of the day to give the money back to the poor.

He was originally a wealthy landowner wrongfully robbed of his land by a corrupt government.

-Chris

Wow! I don't know where you get your information about Robin Hood from, but I get mine from a much more reputable source, Mel Brooks:

Robin Hood Men in Tights MeetinLittle John and...

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12 years ago

You didn't say you wanted to get rid of taxes completely! You merely wanted to lower the secretary's taxes to Buffett's level! That's what makes you a socialist! Or commie!

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

I thought it was a perfectly logical solution.

I can follow your logic, such as it is

, for the most part, but this time I'm stumped. How does getting rid of taxes make me a socialist? :confused: Sorry, that one went over my head.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You didn't say you wanted to get rid of taxes completely! You merely wanted to lower the secretary's taxes to Buffett's level! That's what makes you a socialist! Or commie!

Think you'd better recheck your definitions, my friend

It probably makes me a flat-taxer, I suppose.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You didn't say you wanted to get rid of taxes completely! You merely wanted to lower the secretary's taxes to Buffett's level! That's what makes you a socialist! Or commie!

Originally Posted by SteveJohnson

Think you'd better recheck your definitions, my friend

It probably makes me a flat-taxer, I suppose.

Exactly how I understood your remark Steve. A flat taxer,which IF we have to pay (and the average for middle class and the poor is somewhere in the 30% range, then the companies that make billions should pay the same.
What is such a hard concept to get about that?

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12 years ago

You and Steve are proposing raising taxes and that doesn't fly these days, unless it is on the poor.

Originally Posted by KimW

Exactly how I understood your remark Steve. A flat taxer,which IF we have to pay (and the average for middle class and the poor is somewhere in the 30% range, then the companies that make billions should pay the same.
What is such a hard concept to get about that?

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You and Steve are proposing raising taxes and that doesn't fly these days, unless it is on the poor.

No Tim,
We are suggesting making the tax system fair.
I know you feel it will raise taxes, you told me that before, but in this situation I feel you are wrong. If I make 10K a year and I have to pay 1K in taxes and every Big oil ( just an example) have to pay the same 10%, how are the poor going to lose money?
In actuality we will have more funding for the government to use and not less.
And I don't know about you, but I have been poor,and I would much rather have had to pay 10% rather than the 30+ percent the government stole from me.

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12 years ago

You are still proposing raising taxes on the corporations and the rich. People have signed pledges not to do that. It's pretty much impossible to do so. I'm sure your guy running for President would be against anything that makes those more well off pay more taxes.

Originally Posted by KimW

No Tim,
We are suggesting making the tax system fair.
I know you feel it will raise taxes, you told me that before, but in this situation I feel you are wrong. If I make 10K a year and I have to pay 1K in taxes and every Big oil ( just an example) have to pay the same 10%, how are the poor going to lose money?
In actuality we will have more funding for the government to use and not less.
And I don't know about you, but I have been poor,and I would much rather have had to pay 10% rather than the 30+ percent the government stole from me.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Haha. Lets just get rid of all taxes! Why stop at just lowering them!? What are you? A freaking socialist!

No, an American.
The IRS was formed as a TEMPORAY way to raise money to fund the Civil War.
It was NEVER intended to be the giant monstrosity that yields power over every American and strikes fear into the hearts of those that don't derserve it and caters to the rich.

It should have been abolished years ago and it should be immediately. Instead it is asking for,and will probably get, more power over the rights of Americans.

Anyone that believes we should get rid of the taxes are Americans,NOT socialists.

"In July 1863, during the Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln and Congress created the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted a temporary income tax to pay war expenses (see Revenue Act of 1862). The position of Commissioner exists today as the head of the Internal Revenue Service.
The Revenue Act of 1862 was passed as an emergency and temporary war-time tax. It copied a relatively new British system of income taxation, instead of trade and property taxation. The first income tax was passed in 1861:

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12 years ago

You guys have convinced me. I think we should abolish taxes. See post number 32 for my solution and platform. I will announce my candidacy soon, on the steps of The Salvation Army headquarters.

Originally Posted by KimW

No, an American.
The IRS was formed as a TEMPORAY way to raise money to fund the Civil War.
It was NEVER intended to be the giant monstrosity that yields power over every American and strikes fear into the hearts of those that don't derserve it and caters to the rich.

It should have been abolished years ago and it should be immediately. Instead it is asking for,and will probably get, more power over the rights of Americans.

Anyone that believes we should get rid of the taxes are Americans,NOT socialists.

"In July 1863, during the Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln and Congress created the office of Commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted a temporary income tax to pay war expenses (see Revenue Act of 1862). The position of Commissioner exists today as the head of the Internal Revenue Service.
The Revenue Act of 1862 was passed as an emergency and temporary war-time tax. It copied a relatively new British system of income taxation, instead of trade and property taxation. The first income tax was passed in 1861:

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Ridiculous!

I guess Warren Buffett is envious of other rich people that's why he wants them to pay the same percentage in taxes as his secretary. LOl.

Where do you come up with this sh@t?

Tim,

It's a canned response from Mr. Johnson.

All I said above was one of the GOP's main positions is that the nation should give more and more tax breaks to the wealthy and then prosperity would trickle down to the rest of us.

His response is the canned...

"everybody's who ain't wealthy is jealous of the wealthy" crap.

All The Best!!

TL

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Tim,

It's a canned response from Mr. Johnson.

All I said above was one of the GOP's main positions is that the nation should give more and more tax breaks to the wealthy and then prosperity would trickle down to the rest of us.

His response is the canned...

"everybody's who ain't wealthy is jealous of the wealthy" crap.

All The Best!!

TL

And it's one of the Liberals main positions that no one should be wealthier than anyone else, so lets take from the rich and give to the poor (kinda like Robin Hood) so we can win their votes and be elected for life.

Yes - a ridiculous blanket statement. But no more so than yours...

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Chris Worner

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

And it's one of the Liberals main positions that no one should be wealthier than anyone else, so lets take from the rich and give to the poor (kinda like Robin Hood) so we can win their votes and be elected for life.

I laugh when I here socialists and communists attempt to use this analogy. Robin Hood wasn't stealing from the greedy rich to give to the needy, he was railing against over taxation and stole from the government of the day to give the money back to the poor.

He was originally a wealthy landowner wrongfully robbed of his land by a corrupt government.

-Chris

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by Chris Worner

I laugh when I here socialists and communists attempt to use this analogy. Robin Hood wasn't stealing from the greedy rich to give to the needy, he was railing against over taxation and stole from the government of the day to give the money back to the poor.

He was originally a wealthy landowner wrongfully robbed of his land by a corrupt government.

-Chris

LOL - I wasn't really trying to get any Robin Hood facts straight Chris. Just making a comment.

But thanks anyway...

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

And it's one of the Liberals main positions that no one should be wealthier than anyone else, so lets take from the rich and give to the poor (kinda like Robin Hood) so we can win their votes and be elected for life.

Yes - a ridiculous blanket statement. But no more so than yours...

The false equivalency does not work in this case Mike.

Why??

Trickle Down Economics is actually one of the philosophical and policy positions of the modern day national GOP and anyone who's been paying attention knows it.

It's also called supply side economics.

It came into prominence during the time of of 40th POTUS and during the prez primaries to determine the 40th presidency, the 41st POTUS actually called it...

"Voodoo Economics."

Trickle Down has dominated this country since the early 1980's and it has not worked for anyone but the wealthy. ( top tax rates were cut from 70% to 35% )

Some people call it reverse robin hood economics.

At a recent GOP debate the moderator asked the 7 or 9 prez candidates if they would accept 10 dollars in cuts for only 1 dollar in tax increases...

... in order to try to balance the budget.

They were asked to raise their hands.

Not one did.

TL

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The false equivalency does not work in this case Mike.

Why??

Trickle Down Economics is actually one of the philosophical and policy positions of the modern day national GOP and anyone who's been paying attention knows it.

It's also called supply side economics.

It came into prominence during the time of of 40th POTUS and during the prez primaries to determine the 40th presidency, the 41st POTUS actually called it...

"Voodoo Economics."

Trickle Down has dominated this country since the early 1980's and it has not worked for anyone but the wealthy. ( top tax rates were cut from 70% to 35% )

Some people call it reverse robin hood economics.

At a recent GOP debate the moderator asked the 7 or 9 prez candidates if they would accept 10 dollars in cuts for only 1 dollar in tax increases...

... in order to try to balance the budget.

They were asked to raise their hands.

Not one did.

TL

TL,

It doesn't work because in your one-track thinking, Democrats = always right, good, etc. and GOP = always wrong, war mongering, etc.

It's ok though because I already know it when I make my comments to your comments.

It's all good.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

TL,

It doesn't work because in your one-track thinking, Democrats = always right, good, etc. and GOP = always wrong, war mongering, etc.

It's ok though because I already know it when I make my comments to your comments.

It's all good.

It doesn't work because it has no basis in reality.

Mike, it's not ridiculous of me or anyone else to say the GOP are firm believers in trickle down economics because they do believe in trickle down economics.

It is a major part of their economic governing philosophy.

You alluded that it was ridiculous of me to say it - when it is not.

It is a fact.

That stuff you kidded about liberals believing that no one should be wealthier than anyone else is bunk - pure and simple and you equated it with me saying the GOP believes in trickle down economics.

One is true and one is not true so they are not equal.

You said...

And it's one of the Liberals main positions that no one should be wealthier than anyone else, so lets take from the rich and give to the poor (kinda like Robin Hood) so we can win their votes and be elected for life.

Yes - a ridiculous blanket statement. But no more so than yours...

TL

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

It doesn't work because it has no basis in reality.

Mike, it's not ridiculous of me or anyone else to say the GOP are firm believers in trickle down economics because they do believe in trickle down economics.

It is a major part of their economic governing philosophy.

You alluded that it was ridiculous of me to say it - when it is not.

It is a fact.

That stuff you kidded about liberals believing that no one should be wealthier than anyone else is bunk - pure and simple and you equated it with me saying the GOP believes in trickle down economics.

One is true and one is not true so they are not equal.

You said...

And it's one of the Liberals main positions that no one should be wealthier than anyone else, so lets take from the rich and give to the poor (kinda like Robin Hood) so we can win their votes and be elected for life.

Yes - a ridiculous blanket statement. But no more so than yours...

TL

Yes, what Mike said is absolutely correct.
And your trickle down concept does NOT work, because in fact what is happening is the rich are getting the money and the middle class is disappearing.

It is always funny to read your posts though,they are always so full of misinformation.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

It doesn't work because it has no basis in reality.

Mike, it's not ridiculous of me or anyone else to say the GOP are firm believers in trickle down economics because they do believe in trickle down economics.

It is a major part of their economic governing philosophy.

You alluded that it was ridiculous of me to say it - when it is not.

It is a fact.

That stuff you kidded about liberals believing that no one should be wealthier than anyone else is bunk - pure and simple and you equated it with me saying the GOP believes in trickle down economics.

One is true and one is not true so they are not equal.

You said...

And it's one of the Liberals main positions that no one should be wealthier than anyone else, so lets take from the rich and give to the poor (kinda like Robin Hood) so we can win their votes and be elected for life.

Yes - a ridiculous blanket statement. But no more so than yours...

TL

TL,

You love those three little words, don't you...

"It's a fact!"

How is it a fact? SHOW me your source for these "facts" and not from some far left source. Then maybe I'll see your point.

In the meantime, what you stated is your OPINION and my response was my OPINION. Both of which are based not on "facts", but on our personal belief systems.

I could rip apart your tidbit about liberals all day long with my "facts" too. Doesn't mean mine are any more right or wrong than yours.

They're opinions.

Kim is right about one thing... you're credibility is slipping. :rolleyes:

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio

TL,

You love those three little words, don't you...

"It's a fact!"

How is it a fact? SHOW me your source for these "facts" and not from some far left source. Then maybe I'll see your point.

In the meantime, what you stated is your OPINION and my response was my OPINION. Both of which are based not on "facts", but on our personal belief systems.

I could rip apart your tidbit about liberals all day long with my "facts" too. Doesn't mean mine are any more right or wrong than yours.

They're opinions.

Kim is right about one thing... you're credibility is slipping. :rolleyes:

Are you seriously claiming that Supply-Side Economics AKA Trickle Down Economics is...

...not a staple of modern day GOP economic philosophy and just my opinion??

As #40 said...

"facts are stubborn things."

Why don't you declare that the Earth is square and then proclaim that...

...as a valid opinion also?

All opinions are not valid and I am not saying I am always right but enough is enough.

After what I've been a witness to in this forum...

If that person you mentioned above is the yard stick for determining credibility here or anywhere else, I gladly decline his endorsement.

TL

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Are you seriously claiming that Supply-Side Economics AKA Trickle Down Economics is...

...not a staple of modern day GOP economic philosophy and just my opinion??

As #40 said...

"facts are stubborn things."

Why don't you declare that the Earth is square and then proclaim that...

...as a valid opinion also?

All opinions are not valid and I am not saying I am always right but enough is enough.

After what I've been a witness to in this forum...

If that person you mentioned above is the yard stick for determining credibility here or anywhere else, I gladly decline his endorsement.

TL

TL, you are certainly a case.
Don't worry, there is not one thing in you that I could ethically or morally endorse.
Your real concern is that you are getting called out by not just me anymore but more and more people. And the list keeps growing.

And all most of us have asked of you is A: be civl and stop the name calling and insults,both spoken and implied.
And B:
Back up what you say with facts and stop distorting what others say.

So, why is that so hard for you?

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

The false equivalency does not work in this case Mike.

Why??

Trickle Down Economics is actually one of the philosophical and policy positions of the modern day national GOP and anyone who's been paying attention knows it.

It's also called supply side economics.

It came into prominence during the time of of 40th POTUS and during the prez primaries to determine the 40th presidency, the 41st POTUS actually called it...

"Voodoo Economics."

Trickle Down has dominated this country since the early 1980's and it has not worked for anyone but the wealthy. ( top tax rates were cut from 70% to 35% )

Some people call it reverse robin hood economics.

At a recent GOP debate the moderator asked the 7 or 9 prez candidates if they would accept 10 dollars in cuts for only 1 dollar in tax increases...

... in order to try to balance the budget.

They were asked to raise their hands.

Not one did.

TL

Ask the same question to all the democrat legislators and I'd bet you get the same response.

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator

Tim,

It's a canned response from Mr. Johnson.

All I said above was one of the GOP's main positions is that the nation should give more and more tax breaks to the wealthy and then prosperity would trickle down to the rest of us.

His response is the canned...

"everybody's who ain't wealthy is jealous of the wealthy" crap.

All The Best!!

TL

As are 99% of yours. :rolleyes:

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HeySal

12 years ago

They have plenty of funds to fix the infrastructure. They are spending it on their own high life styles, war, a phony as hell war on drugs, and surveillance of average citizens. Being fascist perverts cost a LOT.

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Joe Mobley

12 years ago

This may not sit well with many but I do not pay taxes out of moral compunction, I pay taxes as a prison avoidance strategy.

Joe Mobley

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

This may not sit well with many but I do not pay taxes out of moral compunction, I pay taxes as a prison avoidance strategy.

Joe Mobley

It's like Benjamin Franklin said so long ago ~ "The only thing certain is death and taxes."

<sigh>

Terra
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- Joe Mobley 12 years ago
  
  I'm trying to delay and minimize both for as long as possible.
  
  Joe Mobley
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  It's like Benjamin Franklin said so long ago ~ "The only thing certain is death and taxes."
  
  <sigh>
  
  Terra
  
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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

This may not sit well with many but I do not pay taxes out of moral compunction, I pay taxes as a prison avoidance strategy.

Joe Mobley

Agreed.

In fact, paying taxes has nothing to do with morality. It is simply a satisfaction of duty. We have a duty, by law, to comply with the tax code. Our job is done as long as we complete that obligation.

Having a greater understanding of the tax code doesn't make one more or less virtuous, just more knowledgeable of the tax code.

Edit: Just piggybacking on your comment, Joe, not making commentary on your comment.

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Joe Mobley

12 years ago

I think you're right. And commentary is fine by me.

Joe Mobley

Originally Posted by Dan Riffle

Agreed.

In fact, paying taxes has nothing to do with morality. It is simply a satisfaction of duty. We have a duty, by law, to comply with the tax code. Our job is done as long as we complete that obligation.

Having a greater understanding of the tax code doesn't make one more or less virtuous, just more knowledgeable of the tax code.

Edit: Just piggybacking on your comment, Joe, not making commentary on your comment.

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12 years ago

No,I'm with you Joe.
To me taxes are legalized theft and the IRS is government loansharking that practices usury.
I wouldn't mind taxes as much if we all paid the same rate,including corporations,but its nowhere near fairly divided.

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12 years ago

How about death caused by taxes?

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12 years ago

I'm all for a flat rate tax. But then, I'm just repeating myself.

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sloanjim

12 years ago

Come on yes it's legal but it's pure greed.

I magine eanring say $5million a year then putting all your effort into tax "avoidance" techniques.

Greedy! I guess the more you make the more you want.

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Dan Riffle

12 years ago

Originally Posted by sloanjim

Come on yes it's legal but it's pure greed.

I magine eanring say $5million a year then putting all your effort into tax "avoidance" techniques.

Greedy! I guess the more you make the more you want.

There's nothing greedy about using the tax code advantageously. The tax code stipulates how much taxes any individual or corporation needs to pay. There's no moral obligation to pay a single penny more. This isn't a right or wrong, moral or immoral, greedy or generous situation. It's a situation of paying the exact amount of tax required by the tax code.

The real issue is the complexity of the tax code itself. The average person can no longer manuever through the code in an efficient manner, so they end up paying more taxes than the code requires. It gets even more ridiculous when you're talking about a multi-national corporation, but that's why they pay tax attorneys and tax accountants.

Now, once you step outside the code, well, that's another story.

By the way, I'll be the first to admit the more I make the more I want to keep. I have no qualms paying my fair share, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay one dollar more than is required.

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sloanjim

12 years ago

he could be around now. Nothing changed then.

I laugh when I here socialists and communists attempt to use this analogy. Robin Hood wasn't stealing from the greedy rich to give to the needy, he was railing against over taxation and stole from the government of the day to give the money back to the poor.

He was originally a wealthy landowner wrongfully robbed of his land by a corrupt government.

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12 years ago

"People have signed pledges not to do that. It's pretty much impossible to do so."
What people are you referring to? The crooked politicians that are already in office?
As far as what my guy running for president would do, his plan would basically do exactly that by bringing us back to a real monetary standard instead of the false one our country currently runs on.

"Oh, we the government needs more money? Tell them to print a few trillion more,it doesn't matter that we have nothing to back it up with" :rolleyes:

No Tim, going back to a real monetary standard would in fact make the big corporations actually,imo , pay a more reasonable share of what they owe and not get away with claiming they are too big to fail and only a couple years later reporting record breaking profits,while at the same time forcing hard working Americans out of their homes so they can steal them.

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TimPhelan 12 years ago

No Kim, it wouldn't.

Originally Posted by KimW

No Tim, going back to a real monetary standard would in fact make the big corporations actually,imo , pay a more reasonable share of what they owe
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- KimW 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by TimPhelan
  
  No Kim, it wouldn't.
  
  Ok, please explain how it wouldn't.
  You know I'm willing to listen to logic.
  
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  TimPhelan 12 years ago
  
  It's your theory. You should explain how it would work first Kim.
  
  Originally Posted by KimW
  
  Ok, please explain how it wouldn't.
  You know I'm willing to listen to logic.
  
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Dave Patterson

12 years ago

To accumulate wealth you first have to learn to keep more of what you earn...

The next thing you need to know is how to take that which you have earned and invest to create even more wealth (which, in the process, gives someone with less than yourself the opportunity to begin to create their own wealth by earning...)

To CREATE personal wealth is an individuals responsibility.

WTH is wrong with that?

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12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

To accumulate wealth you first have to learn to keep more of what you earn...

BINGO

The next thing you need to know is how to take that which you have earned and invest to create even more wealth (which, in the process, gives someone with less than yourself the opportunity to begin to create their own wealth by earning...)

BINGO (again)

To CREATE personal wealth is an individuals responsibility.

WTH is wrong with that?

Dave, you are pretty right on with that post.

I think a flat tax would certainly allow your first point.

I think your second point was/is the reason small business was for the longest time the backbone of both the middle class and the opportunity that let others aquire more wealth.

To create wealth one actually has to be able to earn more than it costs to survive/live.
In other words have something left over.

Our system is not allowing for that in this current time.... more poeple are living paycheck to paycheck than any other time since the depression,which by the way,we are still in even though the government denies it.

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Dave Patterson

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

To accumulate wealth you first have to learn to keep more of what you earn...

The next thing you need to know is how to take that which you have earned and invest to create even more wealth (which, in the process, gives someone with less than yourself the opportunity to begin to create their own wealth by earning...)

To CREATE personal wealth is an individuals responsibility.

WTH is wrong with that?

Oh, yeah...this is in essence exactly how "trickle-down economics" works...

And TL "thanked" me?

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TLTheLiberator 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Oh, yeah...this is in essence exactly how "trickle-down economics" works...

And TL "thanked" me?

I thanked you for the following...

"To accumulate wealth you first have to learn to keep more of what you earn...

The next thing you need to know is how to take that which you have earned and invest to create even more wealth (which, in the process, gives someone with less than yourself the opportunity to begin to create their own wealth by earning...)

To CREATE personal wealth is an individuals responsibility.

WTH is wrong with that?"

And nothing else.

TL
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KimW 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dave Patterson

Oh, yeah...this is in essence exactly how "trickle-down economics" works...

And TL "thanked" me?

And that surprises you how?
LOL.
Just look at how he doles out his thanks and you will see a pattern to his madness.
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12 years ago

"Kim is right about one thing..."

Damn Mike, just ONE thing?
I'm crushed!

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