Renouncing citizenship is usually all about the Benjamins, say experts

To me renouncing my citizenship to save money is akin to divorcing my husband because he had bad breath. A bit of over kill,

But I don't have the kind of money that these people have. If I did perhaps I too would look for creative ways to keep more of it. If the proposed taxes on the rich come to pass, I imagine that we will see a few more of our wealthy citizens jump ship.

Well, there ARE other reasons, *****ESPECIALLY***** now! In a way, EVERYONE already HAS given up their citizenshp because the US is so very different from what it was, and the US has given up so much sovereignty. So even if we haven't left the country, the country has left us.

Steve

my thoughts on the subject: Why Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin is a schmuck | ZDNet

Um............

It's liberation money. It's pretty hard to give up citizenship without a stash. Are ya sure it's because of the money they leave instead of because of the money they finally can?

And here's a knee slapper - there's a bill, which I am not sure the status of right now, that will allow our gov to take every freaking thing you own if you do renounce your citizenship. If you are someone who is planning to split after you get enough cash to do it - ya might wanna do some research on that bill and see what things are looking like real fast.

*thinking...am I in the right forum? Is this the OT? I guess this is the forum we talk money in now, eh? Hope nobody ustairs finds that out.*

Joe - income.....you better be able to find one in a land that you thoroughly understand and speak the language that predominates.

I'm not talking about an exit tax.....I'm talking about seizure of all assets. I'll probably look it up again sometime and will give you a link to the bill/law whichever. Not sure if it was an executive order or bill either. I just read too much to remember details of everything. I just remember that I saw it and go dig it up again when it becomes relevant for me to do so.

There is ALSO a bill to allow the government to take ALL retirement funds! IRAS, 401ks, etc.... And did you know that if you leave the country with assets they consider worth $10,000 or more, without declaring it, that they may take EVERY PENNY? The word "may" means THEY can decide on a lesser "punishment". It does NOT lend doubt to the danger. It is ALREADY an established law. Look around the airport sometime. They often have signs saying it! Today, FACT is what would be considered FANTASY when I was a little kid! Just that $10,000 confiscation would have been laughed at.

Steve

Schumer, et. al, to the rescue!

Senators to Unveil the ‘Ex-Patriot Act’ to Respond to Facebook’s Saverin’s Tax ‘Scheme’ - ABC News

Where would the U.S. be without folks like Chucky to stand up for the government's right to snatch people's money?

It seems to me like this Saverin guy is following the rules. He paid the exit tax he owed. He filed the paperwork for renouncing citizenship more than a year ago, in January 2011. That was even before FB had announced plans to go public.

The problem is that our Gov seems to think it's ALL THEIRS. When you work to make that money - how is it that it all belongs to our gov?

As this country moves toward fascism - it's going to act more and more like all fascist states.... one of those ways is to make it impossible for people to get out if they don't like it. Our gov is finding ways to seize every damned thing we own and they are using all tactics they can find to keep us unable to travel - gas prices, no fly lists, exit seizure, you name it. They want you broke and at home in front of your tv. It's so much easier to watch you that way.

Welcome to America, where you are free to walk across the border to get in -- but you aren't getting out unless they SAY you can leave. Don't worry - you won't need new luggage for the trip out. You aren't going to own anything to take with you.

If I can't have that kind of money, nobody else should be able to either therefor he should pay the majority of it in taxes to level the playing field so I can feel better about myself since it isn't fair that he has more money than I or anybody else. At least not that amount of money.

-Chris

Personally I think he is an ungrateful SOB,but if what he did was legal, more power to him. Not the kind of person I want here anyway then.
But I'm with Mike, no amount of money could make me leave my family.

$100,000 was once a LOT of money! You could buy a home, WITH a huge parcel of land, car, boat, AND a plane, and STILL have enough to retire in a nice lifestyle! $1,000,000 was once a lot of money! You could not only buy the above, but have a PALACE type home with tennis courts and horses, and you could have a country club and beach front property TO BOOT!!!!!!

TODAY? My fathers modest home costs almost a million dollars, and he doesn't even have an acre of property! MY home is about the same in a less popular place, and his barely a half acre and costs almost $300K. Some estates near me have homes little better than mine, a little area for horses, and I BELIEVE about 2 acres. THEY START at over $750K! A place that is VERY nice, with about 20 acres near me sold for about $20Million.

SO, for all those saying that "the rich" should pay their fair share.... You DO realize that YOU are almost certainly RICH by old standards, etc... HECK, I figure I need about $2 million to even THINK about retiring! As for the rich? If they REALLY want to pay so much in tax, WHY DON'T THEY? They often pay RICH people to AVOID paying taxes. Buffets deal with his son is SWEET! He can pay his son and get TONS of tax breaks. The obamas paid their kids a LOT of money classed as a gift. ALL TAX FREE!!!!!! I say the obamas, because mother and father acted like separate people to get DOUBLE the benefit.

Steve

All the talk about paying "their fair share" sickens me as an American and a believer in freedom.

Any "share" other than a percentage equal to what every other citizen pays is nothing but Marxism. "From each according to their ability...[blah blah blah]." Taxation is government's yoke on the country's citizens, and a prime tool of despotic or tyrannical government.

Sorry. Deleted. This was a rant.

Thanks Kay, suffice it to say that as far as us being so privileged...when a man only punches his wife in the face squarely and not under the belt like "other" abusers, should she feel blessed to be with him , and should people tell her shes taking alot for granted if she is hurt and un happy?

We dont believe in clitoral mutilation here.... We just sell our own peoples children for profit (CAPTA). When America stops preying on its own families I will gladly start sending my donations to uncle sam and taxes. I love to donate. They would get alot of money of mine if they were standing up for good causes.

As for now I am building my OWN business and they arent helping me, I could take my little four by four space to india and work for all I care.... They dont need a BILLION dollars for lot rent unless they helped me build my business. Still its the fact that our tax dollars support local governments stealing children from families and selling them that makes me half tempted just to take mine and move to another country.

John, what do you mean "We just sell our own peoples children for profit".
I understand what CAPTA is.

Everyone understands it is not right to SKIP on taxes -- it is that they have decided that it's okay to rake someone over the coals and take up to everything they own if they have decided that this gov has become too out of control to live under. It"s not THEIR money. The system they use to take it was installed on us illegally anyway. When they act like King George revisited.........it's time to go and if you worked to make that money, it should be yours to take with you. How much of your life and sweat are you obligated to give a government that is taking over so much that they are driving people into the streets hungry?

"How about this? If someone wants to go all the way down the democratic socialist road,"

PUH LEEZE!!

democratic and socialist do not belong in the same sentence,just as right wing and conservatives doesn't.

True democrats are not for socialism.
Most conservatives are not right wingers.

Talk like that is counter productive to what we all should be doing, which is getting America back to the country it should be.

By the way, my face has been punched by the government so many times it will never stop bleeding.

Oh, I deleted 90% of what I wrote. It really isn't worth it.

Crap, I just noticed that in the 90% I deleted I cut some I wanted left in,mainly this:
I believe our country should have a flat tax,and that everyone should pay it.


And Brian John,
I agree with you.

Sorry if I got you riled up Kim...I hope my feelings change. I loved being altruistic.

John, not directed at you.... ( or actually any one in particular)

Hell, you could tell me you were a communistic and I'd still love ya!

I know a lot of your story and you know a lot of mine.

I love my country,that doesn't mean I love my government.

Punched in the face by the government?
You'd be amazed if I told you how they were jerking me right this moment.
(Maybe I will later in PM), but I still love my country,its the people currently running it I don't care for.

@ Steve, many of us practically live on the internet these days. I was amazed when I moved from Nashville to a small town in Arkansas a few years back to look after my grandmother...The day I arrived there was no internet, and I was sitting back in an easy chair thinking "Im surrounded by mountains, Im out in the middle of virtually NO WHERE, unplugged basically... I cant believe Im so far removed from the city". It was cool for a few days but strange after so many years...

But then when I turned on the internet there was no difference between where I was and Nashville.

I feel like when we are online we arent really in a country at all. Even money making limitations are lifted and not held back by location.

Yes Steve, I did misunderstand what you meant.

And I agree, I know there are countries in Europe that are Democratic Socialist countries.

And America is headed down a dangerous path,that the country wont ever recover from if we the citizens continue to let it happen. But I don't see socialism as the problem.
Am I a socialist because I believe that American citizens have a right to be protected from the corrupt government and pharma companies?
Am I a socialist because after paying into the SS and Medicare program for over 40 years I expect to get a fair amount out of it?
Sure,the system needs to be changed,but not at the expense of those that have funded it all these years.

As a single parent of three daughters I also had my run ins with the government interfering where they have no right.
As it is the government needs no legitimate reason to make someones life miserable for years claiming its for "the welfare of the children".
In 99% of the cases the parent knows what best for the children,not some old woman that has never been married and works at a desk pushing through her idea of child raising,or the 22/23 years old that is fresh out of school with a Social Worker degree that has no real life experience.

Every government worker needs to be help responsible for their every action.
And I mean at every level.

We need term limits.

We need to eliminate both the IRS,which was suppose to be a temporary agency in the first place, and we need to eliminate the practice of using our SS number as an identification method. When created it was expressly stated that it was to never be used for that purpose.

Sorry, off on a rant.

But the reason a flat tax wont ever happen isn't because the government wont give it up, its because the majority of the public are sheep. And Americans as a whole have developed the attitude of "as long as its happening to him and not me,I don't care", so slowly it will be done until one day they will wake up and it will be too late.

Part of what I deleted was basically this:

I remember when those that came to America and were granted both citizenship and the opportunity America gave them, gave back to the country and its citizens by creating charities, grants, fellowships,scholarships and many other ways of being thankful for the opportunity they received in the country.

Now they come, get the citizenship, make more money than they probably could have anywhere else in the world then want to renounce what they were given to save a few bucks?
Like I said, if its legal, fine, but don't let the door hit you on the way out.
And don't try to come back.

Well one thing its called if we are talking about the same concept is a "grandfather clause".

As far as this:
"I just wish there were a little more evident indignation directed at Chucky Schumer for trying to change the rules after the game is over. If he and his cohorts think this kind of law is needed going forward, fine, let them try to get it passed. But I always thought retroactive application of a new law wasn't allowed. Can't remember the legal term, can't talk Latin."

I'm not aware of the man or what he is trying to do, give me a link and I'll be happy to read it.

U.S. Senators Charles Schumer and Bob Casey are pushing the "Ex-PATRIOT Act" in response to Saverin's leaving.

Why the Ex-Patriot Act Is a Creepy Law - Conor Friedersdorf - Politics - The Atlantic

There's a LOT of fault with that law. First off - how the hell do you PROVE someone's intentions? According to this law that would be determined (in favor of the IRS) just by someone continuing to make good money, or even starting to make good money, after they leave.

Number 2 - why is the US still ruling you if you left because you can't stand the country? How is that different from the action of any other socialist/fascist gov that we have ever fought against?

Number 3 - why aren't the citizens in those dung-brained psychotics regions kicking them out of office? We have a LOT of pension money going to THEM, too, if they get through to the re-election process, so will be living a great life for having screwed their country up even further. So why are people sitting with their thumbs up their butts and letting them continue to turn the US Congress into a freak show?

"we will know for sure that we need to put our reps in mental institutions."

No, in prisons,for life.
Let them lose all the rights they are taking away from us.

Looks like the guy leaving the country isn't going to be worth as much as he thought.

That's true. The citizenry could pay for a militia, schools, etc on their own and do it cheaply enough for everyone to reap the benefits without breaking their bank. A LOT of what we pay now just goes straight to the FED to pay interest on the debt. At one time if everyone would have bought all rights to their land (water, forestry, mineral, etc) that debt could have been paid off and we would have been free -- but they never even let people know that was the situation. Now the debt is so high, it can never be payed off - we just have to see the rape and call foul and kick them to the curb and force the gov to take back their duty to print money. Until that comes down to it -- we are owned lock, stock, and barrel by World Bank. Welcome to The United States of Goldman Sacs.

BTW - we are not headed toward Democratic Socialism.........we are falling into fascism. Give it around 18 more months and there will be no more confusion about which form of socialism is being catered in.

NO OFFENSE, but I WISH I could say you were TOTALLY wrong!

Militia? Do you REALIZE how great the US could have been with a TINY military etc....

Schools? There is so much I had to go to libraries and bookstores to learn, etc... Some things were generally learned via a kind of mentoring. Today? WOW!

So much is WASTED!

As for the big F? Yep, I don't know why some people can't see it.

Steve

Kay,
In other words he already left the country? I was using the term leaving the country as meaning the same as giving up his citizenship.

The story the thread is about is dated May 11th 2012.

I'm not sure how it is political positioning, who is going to gain from it? The Repubs or the Dems?

I wouldn't care where he lived, lots of Americans live a good portion of their life off the continental United States. Its the renouncing his citizenship that is the issue with me.
As I said in my first post in this thread. He is nothing but an ungrateful SOB in my opinion.

"What happens to my working class great grandchildren 75 years in the future who may want to leave because of problems that the government has caused them?"

No, you get off your ass and work now to make that scenerio impossible.

But to answer your question, I don't want, and I don't see others advocating punishment. I've said several times that if what he did was legal,fine.
But there is a large difference between legal and moral and ethical..
Maybe what he did was legal.
But I find in my opinion it falls short of the yardstick when it comes to ethical and moral.

I wonder how difficult it would be to regain US Citizenship after renouncing it.

I read an article on activistpost (I think) about people wanting to diversify overseas because of all the draconic capital controls that Congress wants to enact.

Kay,
Who are you talking about when you say this:
"We have millions of people in the US who will never become citizens but who will collect from social programs here."
Definitely should not happen.
I didn't quote your whole post because that was the only part of my reply directed to you.

As far as the IRS:
The IRS has always had too much power. It's very existence is improper. It was suppose to be a temporary agency that has turned into a monster. It is legalized theft It is legalized usury.

But how many of you have written your congressmen and senators and told them to stop passing illegal laws?

My eyes were not doing me right today, You said collect on social programs yet my brain read social security.
You were correct on what you said. My Bad.

"All about Benjamins"? Hmmm. My brother's name is Benjamin and he renounced his Canadian citizenship (to be a Japanese citizen).

read some senator so upset about this guy giving up his citizenship he bans to ban people forever from the US and all kinds of stuff. I wish senators had to get the approval of the people they represent before they go off issuing threats like these...

Thats what recalls are all about.

Don't let the door hit them in their asses. I wouldn't allow them back.