by KimW
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I'm surpised no one has posted about this yet:

BBC News - Batman US cinema shooting: 12 dead in Colorado
  • Profile picture of the author Onora Oz
    I'm surprised, too. Very surprised.
    I've been watching news. It's sad. I don't know what to say.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
    I'm a nervous wreck. My niece lives in Aurora. I just got off the phone with my sister.

    We talked about what makes someone snap. I don't get it. I never will. And how the mother of the shooter knew immediately that it was her son. She must have known the kid had problems.

    God bless the people who are mourning the loss of their loves ones and for all those who are wounded.

    This is such a terrible tragedy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      The nature of the attack suggests it was well planned. The suspect's vehicle was parked at the rear of the complex, near the emergency exit where he was reported to have entered from.
      I saw this quote in the CBS news report and it made me stop.

      Since when can you go IN an emergency exit? How would he know he could go IN the emergency exit? I think that theater just bought a big liability unless there was an accomplice who opened the door.

      I don't buy the "he snapped" scenario. It was planned as an execution with multiple guns including an assault rifle, with a tear gas canister and with an access door conveniently available. This was a planned execution and the guy doesn't get any excuses from me.

      If he was mentally unstable - why was he able to acquire so many guns? I expect we'll find he's a wannabe Rambo or a disgruntled ex-employee...or a similar personal motive.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brian John
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        If he was mentally unstable - why was he able to acquire so many guns?
        ...or get into medical school?

        great selection process at the univ of colorodo school of med. (facepalm)
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  • Profile picture of the author Leanne King
    I heard this on the news tonight My heart goes out to all those poor people caught up in this tragedy, their family and friends.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    There's no "if" that he was mentally unstable. His apartment was/is elaborately booby-trapped; last I saw was that they still haven't been able to gain entry safely.

    That is a good question about the back exit, though. The theaters that I've been in all have back doors that lead to the parking lot, but none of them have handles on the outside, presumably to keep the non-payers out. Maybe it was forced open, who knows at this point.

    He didn't have a true 'assault rifle'. He may have something that looked like one - but if he'd had a real one, the toll would have been much higher.

    Where in the hell did he get a tear-gas canister? And riot gear?

    Have the police looked into a fully-loaded cruiser being stolen?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Steve - it was reported he had an AK-50 and that is commonly referred to as an assault rifle. He also had a pump action shotgun, two handguns and a knife ...at least that's the report.

      We don't know (at least I don't) which guns he used to open fire - and I wonder at what point he left the theater instead of continuing to fire. I'm just glad he was caught at the scene.

      EDIT: Latest report is AR15 not the previous scrolling subtitle of AR50. I don't know if that's classed as "assault rifle" or not but didn't think so. Semi-automatic but has a magazine.

      The TV News has moved into areas of conjecture. The whole thing is sad.
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      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    I posted this on FB,but I was looking through craigslist the other day for some exercise equipment and in the sporting goods section someone was selling bullet proof body armour....$350.. so it obviously isn't difficult to find crap like that.
    As far as assault rifles? I haven't read much about what he had yet, and I don't own any guns,but I do know that since they are illegal,their are many modificatyion kits out there to make them "semi" automatics,but not true automatics.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      He should be put in a room and tortured daily for the rest of his life.

      Death is too good for him and too easy a way out.

      My prayers are with the families who have lost loved ones.

      Nothing else I can say...just sick.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    So horrible. Another whack job of epic proportions.

    What is it about CO? It's so beautiful - Columbine and now this.

    My sincere condolences to all the families of the dead and the wounded.

    May this demon be taken out (feet first).
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  • Profile picture of the author Elizabeth Fee
    It is hard to believe. I went to Gateway High School just down the road from that theater, and lived within minutes of it growing up. Certainly something I just can't understand - and the fact that there were children involved just makes my heart hurt.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmarieP
    I live in aurora and in fact I live about a block from his apartment. It's crazy because it hit so close to home. My husband and I always go to midnight showings and we wanted to see this movie, but thank god for having a little baby because of her we couldnt go. Crazy to think that we could have been there.
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  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    Bizarre and tragic to say the least. It's also sad how many people are becoming blase about such events. I was surprised that The Onion, which I normally like, is already making light of this incident. I actually like dark humor, but to joke about a massacre the day after it happens is a little much.
    Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      Bizarre and tragic to say the least. It's also sad how many people are becoming blase about such events. I was surprised that The Onion, which I normally like, is already making light of this incident. I actually like dark humor, but to joke about a massacre the day after it happens is a little much.
      Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
      You know, I read this and sadly, it is so true. Isn't this what always happens?

      Really makes you wonder about things. I'll leave it at that because I don't want
      to start a discussion that gets this thread deleted.
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      • Profile picture of the author AmarieP
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        You know, I read this and sadly, it is so true. Isn't this what always happens?

        Really makes you wonder about things. I'll leave it at that because I don't want
        to start a discussion that gets this thread deleted.
        I read it too and thought the same thing. Sad but so very true. Some of things they mentioned in the article is already happening.
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        • Profile picture of the author LarryC
          Originally Posted by AmarieP View Post

          I read it too and thought the same thing. Sad but so very true. Some of things they mentioned in the article is already happening.
          Yes, I don't doubt it. It's just that when The Onion publishes it, the implication is that it's amusing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sara Nightingale
        This sort of tragedy becomes forgotten to swiftly... We should really try and memorialize these types of events so the awareness stays up and atrocities like this don't re occur...
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Sara Nightingale View Post

          This sort of tragedy becomes forgotten to swiftly... We should really try and memorialize these types of events so the awareness stays up and atrocities like this don't re occur...
          Almost every one of these incidents at schools has been perpetrated by people on psychotropic drugs, yet they keep feeding them to kids like candy even though the "authorities" know they cause homicidal tendencies. These other tragedies have been carried out by people who had already been flagged as problematic. Until we get our priorities straight and heal our sick society, these things are going to become more and more frequent.
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          • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            Almost every one of these incidents at schools has been perpetrated by people on psychotropic drugs, yet they keep feeding them to kids like candy even though the "authorities" know they cause homicidal tendencies. These other tragedies have been carried out by people who had already been flagged as problematic. Until we get our priorities straight and heal our sick society, these things are going to become more and more frequent.
            Another thing that happens is people taking these drugs often have a tendency to "mix" them with other substances - alcohol, street drugs, over the counter medications, and vaious herbal products.

            These other substances can alter how the medication works, or when taken with substances, doesn't work.

            From NIMH Website:

            Medications work differently for different people. Some people get great results from medications and only need them for a short time. For example, a person with depression may feel much better after taking a medication for a few months, and may never need it again.

            People with disorders like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, or people who have long-term or severe depression or anxiety may need to take medication for a much longer time.

            Some people get side effects from medications and other people don't. Doses can be small or large, depending on the medication and the person. Factors that can affect how medications work in people include:
            • Type of mental disorder, such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia
            • Age, sex, and body size
            • Physical illnesses
            • Habits like smoking and drinking
            • Liver and kidney function
            • Genetics
            • Other medications and herbal/vitamin supplements
            • Diet
            • Whether medications are taken as prescribed.
            :-Don
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          • Colorado Gun Sales Spike After Aurora Theater Shooting (POLL)
            Less than one week after the mass shooting which left 12 dead at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., the Denver Post reports background checks for people wanting to purchase firearms in the state have jumped more than 41 percent.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

      Bizarre and tragic to say the least. It's also sad how many people are becoming blase about such events. I was surprised that The Onion, which I normally like, is already making light of this incident. I actually like dark humor, but to joke about a massacre the day after it happens is a little much.
      Sadly, Nation Knows Exactly How Colorado Shooting's Aftermath Will Play Out | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
      Sadly, I don't think the Onion was making light of it in a way intended to be humorous. Unfortunately, it's probably pretty accurate.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm wondering which of the psychotropic drugs THIS one was on. Researchers have found that those drugs not only cause suicide, but now they know that they make people homicidal - and a LOT of the people who open fire like this are later found to be taking those kinds of drugs.
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    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm wondering which of the psychotropic drugs THIS one was on. Researchers have found that those drugs not only cause suicide, but now they know that they make people homicidal - and a LOT of the people who open fire like this are later found to be taking those kinds of drugs.
      He didn't just go on a spontaneous rampage. This had to have been planned for some time. He had several different weapons and even explosives in his home. So if drugs are involved, they must have been working on him for quite some time.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm wondering which of the psychotropic drugs THIS one was on. Researchers have found that those drugs not only cause suicide, but now they know that they make people homicidal - and a LOT of the people who open fire like this are later found to be taking those kinds of drugs.
      Heysal,

      They DO have HOMOCIDE as a listed side effect. They simply list it as paranoid, agressive, change of personality, etc.... THAT, coupled with depression, is a DANGEROUS mix.

      My mother only had alzheimers, which has a listed symptom of paranoia. She actually believed that I paid someone to make noise at my place to disturb her, and rearange my silverware in a "middle east pattern". She ALSO decided that my life wasn't worth a plugged nickle, and that I should abandon ALL to provide for her every whim. She DID accuse me of the supposed psychic warfare, and she DID say I should abandon any dreams, and help her do whatever.

      I imagine that many of these drugs work in similar ways, and the people think the same way. It FITS! So who knows what those drugs do?

      And YEAH, it is best to let these people have NO satisfaction as to what they did.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm wondering which of the psychotropic drugs THIS one was on. Researchers have found that those drugs not only cause suicide, but now they know that they make people homicidal - and a LOT of the people who open fire like this are later found to be taking those kinds of drugs.
      Interesting the first thing I was thinking was that the rumor I heard about there being a new type of genetically engineered pot coming from the Mideast and that this was the real cause of what we now know as zombies. That was the first thing that hit me with this case, that this guy was on it.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

        Interesting the first thing I was thinking was that the rumor I heard about there being a new type of genetically engineered pot coming from the Mideast and that this was the real cause of what we now know as zombies. That was the first thing that hit me with this case, that this guy was on it.
        Are you talking about K2, or Spice?

        We banned the sale of it after 2 horrific homicides were related to it.

        Michigan Bans The Sale Of Synthetic Marijuana Known As K2

        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          Are you talking about K2, or Spice?

          We banned the sale of it after 2 horrific homicides were related to it.

          Michigan Bans The Sale Of Synthetic Marijuana Known As K2

          Terra
          I really don't know, but the rumor was that the real reason we were over in the MidEast was, because the marijuana there was potent in demand and needed to be genetically engineered. It's weird, but after visiting New York and watching the news there I left believing that its in the weed, same deal with this guy. Now, when I go out I just watch everyone since a lot of people indulge in recreational drugs.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Walter Parrish View Post

            I really don't know, but the rumor was that the real reason we were over in the MidEast was, because the marijuana there was potent in demand and needed to be genetically engineered. It's weird, but after visiting New York and watching the news there I left believing that its in the weed, same deal with this guy. Now, when I go out I just watch everyone since a lot of people indulge in recreational drugs.
            Not sure about back east but out west most people smoke home-grown or that grown by friends, not imported.

            As far as drugs -- it's the pharmaceutical drugs and meth that scare me most. Those are the ones that create the most violent psychosis. They KNOW that psychotropic pharmaceuticals can cause homicidal tendencies. Almost every school shooting in the US has been by someone on psychotropic drugs. Along with the accidental deaths and suicides that follow these drugs, if the pharm co's weren't so powerful and rich, those drugs would just be banned, simple as that.

            MMM - I didn't watch the video. As soon as I saw the word "illuminati" I figured it was far fetched trash. 12 was the number because that is how many rounds he got off before he was stopped. Simple as that. There's a lot of other correlations in the number 12 - starting with a dozen donuts. That kind of speculation is just silly crap.

            What is not silly crap is:
            Where did this guy get the huge amounts of money it would have taken to accumulate that arsenal of his? That was a LOT of very spendy stuff they found. Where'd that kind of money come from?
            The mock of the same incident going on at the campus that same day.
            The first reports from witnesses before the official statement was released.
            Etc.
            Real questions - not some sort of "prophecy" crap.
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            • Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Not sure about back east but out west most people smoke home-grown or that grown by friends, not imported.

              As far as drugs -- it's the pharmaceutical drugs and meth that scare me most. Those are the ones that create the most violent psychosis. They KNOW that psychotropic pharmaceuticals can cause homicidal tendencies. Almost every school shooting in the US has been by someone on psychotropic drugs. Along with the accidental deaths and suicides that follow these drugs, if the pharm co's weren't so powerful and rich, those drugs would just be banned, simple as that.

              MMM - I didn't watch the video. As soon as I saw the word "illuminati" I figured it was far fetched trash. 12 was the number because that is how many rounds he got off before he was stopped. Simple as that. There's a lot of other correlations in the number 12 - starting with a dozen donuts. That kind of speculation is just silly crap.

              What is not silly crap is:
              Where did this guy get the huge amounts of money it would have taken to accumulate that arsenal of his? That was a LOT of very spendy stuff they found. Where'd that kind of money come from?
              The mock of the same incident going on at the campus that same day.
              The first reports from witnesses before the official statement was released.
              Etc.
              Real questions - not some sort of "prophecy" crap.
              I thought you had watched the video...

              There was a report I saw (I can't find it in print) on ABC last night that said he was receiving a scholarship that funded his studies and gave him a stipend to the tune of 26K /yr., and he used that to buy the weaponry. (post#106)

              As for the hidden 'triggers' in the LiL' Wayne video?...:rolleyes: obviously pure illuminati - all rap artists should be sent to Guantanamo ASAP. (but be sure to save some room for the banking boys)

              As far as that goes...the Boomtown Rats sang "I Don't Like Mondays" about a girl who was bored so she shot at a schoolyard in 1979, killing two people - in San Diego...this shooter is from San Diego!
              Coincidence? Or conspiracy?

              Mayim Bialik is on a show about geeks called BIG BANG THEORY...she has a PHd in Neuroscience!
              Coincidence? Or conspiracy?

              The FBI says Holmes is 6'3" tall - yet on a dating website, he listed his height as 5'11"...where is the missing 4"? Coincidence? Or conspiracy?

              and on and on...

              And I could be wrong...but didn't The Joker have green hair?

              (Oh - and the thing about putting all the Rappers in Guantanamo? I was serious about that )
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              • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

                (Oh - and the thing about putting all the Rappers in Guantanamo? I was serious about that )
                I am so TOTALLY on board with that...
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            • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Not sure about back east but out west most people smoke home-grown or that grown by friends, not imported.

              As far as drugs -- it's the pharmaceutical drugs and meth that scare me most. Those are the ones that create the most violent psychosis. They KNOW that psychotropic pharmaceuticals can cause homicidal tendencies. Almost every school shooting in the US has been by someone on psychotropic drugs. Along with the accidental deaths and suicides that follow these drugs, if the pharm co's weren't so powerful and rich, those drugs would just be banned, simple as that.

              MMM - I didn't watch the video. As soon as I saw the word "illuminati" I figured it was far fetched trash. 12 was the number because that is how many rounds he got off before he was stopped. Simple as that. There's a lot of other correlations in the number 12 - starting with a dozen donuts. That kind of speculation is just silly crap.

              What is not silly crap is:
              Where did this guy get the huge amounts of money it would have taken to accumulate that arsenal of his? That was a LOT of very spendy stuff they found. Where'd that kind of money come from?
              The mock of the same incident going on at the campus that same day.
              The first reports from witnesses before the official statement was released.
              Etc.
              Real questions - not some sort of "prophecy" crap.
              I think it's because people for security reasons and fear are afraid to call him what he is a T, I don't even want to use the word, but I'm sure our military will take care of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Larry - people taking those drugs take them for a long time. They cause increased psychosis as time goes on. Not saying all shootings are the result of these drugs - but a LOT of them have been.

    Take the Unibomber as an example. CIA documents released decades after the incident show that Theodore Kaczynski was a mind control experiment in the shut down MKUltra project. And the guy who killed 33 at that college in VA? He was released from a mental institution and they knew he was at least suicidal. A judge had sentenced him to involuntary mental therapy. Va. Tech Gunman's Records Reveal Disorganized Mental Health System
    And how about the Columbine Shooting? Psychotropic drugs there, too. The Real Lesson of Columbine: Psychiatric Drugs Induce Violence » Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Colorado

    I will not be one tad surprised that we will soon see news released about which of the psychotropic drugs this shooter was taking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    You'll probably never hear what kind of drugs they gave them - but if he had smoked a joint that would be the headline.
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  • His mother must have suspected something for some time - Most would be stunned in disbelief, whereas she apparently acquiesced immediately when contacted:
    Aurora Suspect James Holmes' Mother: "You have the right person," she said, apparently speaking on gut instinct. "I need to call the police... I need to fly out to Colorado."
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    This poor gal narrowly escaped death via gunfire a few weeks ago, only to be killed in this shootout. This is just so sad.............

    Jessica Ghawi, Aurora Colorado shooting victim, narrowly missed Toronto Eaton Centre gunfire | News | National Post
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  • Profile picture of the author wackiin
    Its bad when you cant take your kids to the movies with out some moron shooting people
    .And why didnt some of the guys there step up and take him out 50-60 people .
    Also agree with the above post down here anyway you cant just open back doors into the movies there locked and you cant kick them in there steel

    Someone had to open the door or left it unlocked.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brian John
      Originally Posted by wackiin View Post

      Also agree with the above post down here anyway you cant just open back doors into the movies there locked and you cant kick them in there steel
      Someone had to open the door or left it unlocked.
      believe i read that he had previously left the theater and wedged something in the door to keep it from locking (or perhaps just left it slightly ajar), went to his car and geared up before returning.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Kim, I spoke without looking when I wondered where this 'person' could get riot gear. You're right, that kind of stuff is readily gettable.

    I still wonder about the tear gas, though. Maybe he concocted his own.


    An AR-15 is not an assault rifle in the strict sense of the word, but having the media say "a rifle that looks like a military assault rifle but really isn't" is pretty much a non-starter. A semi-automatic short-barreled deer rifle will do the same damage, if not more, as the AR-15 - but it isn't as glamorous or scary-looking.


    Just a clarification, not that anyone really cares at this point:
    A true-to-the-original-meaning 'assault rifle' is a rifle that:
    • is capable of automatic fire, i.e. the weapon will fire multiple times with a single trigger pull
    • is fed with a magazine instead of a belt
    • can be fired from the shoulder instead of requiring a stand mount
    • is capable of 'selective fire', i.e. switchable between single and automatic fire. Most modern assault weapons also have a switchable short-burst capability, firing a set number of times, usually 3-5, on a single trigger pull
    True assault rifles, while not illegal to own in the US, are severely regulated and for all practical purposes for the average person, impossible to obtain.


    The term 'assault rifle' has been *******ized for its shock value by various groups to mean 'anything that looks like a military weapon'.


    A Colt AR-15, which is reportedly what this )(*&)(*$ used, is a civilian version of the military M16, and is not a true assault rifle.


    But tell that to the media.
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    • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

        I can shed a little light on the subject since I served as a Marine grunt from
        1979-1983.

        Although an AR-15 is not truly an automatic weapon and is in fact semi automatic, they have classified it as an assault rifle because it can be easily modified into an automatic rapid fire weapon therefore making it an M-16.

        Both the M-16 and the AR-15 look identical with the M-16 used by our military and the AR-15 issued to SWAT teams in the US.
        "They" - meaning politicians, not ATF - chose to call the civilian AR15 an "assault rifle" because of political considerations, not the functionality of the weapon. It's an assault rifle because it looks like one, not because it acts like one.

        An AR15 decidedly can NOT "be easily modified" to be capable of full-auto fire. It possibly could have been during your time in the service (thank you, btw), but finding the parts necessary to complete the conversion nowadays is next to impossible, prohibitively expensive ( $12K - $16K just for an M16 autosear, for example, if you can find one). Beyond that, it takes an accomplished gunsmith to do it, because the parts aren't just "drop in" - the AR receivers have to be machined to accept the auto bolt carrier.

        I don't mean to be argumentative here - I'm just so totally fed up with politicians misrepresenting facts to fit their agenda of influencing public opinion regardless of the truth. And it's not limited to gun control issues, either.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          The problem with the Second Amendment is the only part quoted is often the "right to keep and bear arms".

          The full sentence can be argued by both sides - what else is new. In the final version that was ratified a comma had been removed that appeared in the draft. Wonder how much discussion that took? (In the draft there was a comma after the word "militia").

          A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
          So anti-gun people argue the Amendment referred to military bearing arms and pro-gun people argue it means everyone can be armed.
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          I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            The problem with the Second Amendment is the only part quoted is often the "right to keep and bear arms".

            The full sentence can be argued by both sides - what else is new. In the final version that was ratified a comma had been removed that appeared in the draft. Wonder how much discussion that took? (In the draft there was a comma after the word "militia").

            So anti-gun people argue the Amendment referred to military bearing arms and pro-gun people argue it means everyone can be armed.
            Logically AND in it's purpose, and in the context, there is only ONE meaning that makes sense. Just one. The argument on the other side ALSO doesn't make sense because that is what got everyone into this place. One reason why all those attacks didn't work on the US was because the enemy had little rest, and didn't know where their enemies were.

            YEAH, it is probably 100% fiction, but a LOT of things DID happen like in "the patroit". They tried to get some rest, thought the person was a coward, etc... next thing you know, they had a LOT of trouble. In that movie, ONE attempt to rest ended up destroying their careers, costing a LOT, even two beloved dogs, and ended with who knows how many deaths. Though probably totally made up, it showed the kind of thing that DID happen. And that started with ONE person. Imagine that happening all over the country.

            Want to depend on the police? Well, they would have THEIR hands full, and how would they know? There have been cases of burglars going ito people's homes and they were lucky if they could even get to a phone. Even with a cell phone, one beep could mean DEATH. HECK, today the phone company would be a TARGET!

            And FORGET about cell phones! Cell phones are weak tranceivers, little more than walky talkies, to get you to the nearest cell. They will NOT work without the traditional phone system! Knock out the right switch, and it will knock out THOUSANDS of users, INCLUDING cell phones, in the area.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Yeah, I was just shocked when I read an ad selling it on Craigslist for petes sake.
    Makes me wonder if they monitor what people post on there at all.

    The tear gas? I wouldn't be surprised if he concocted his own.
    Even with the government censorship I'm sure someone could get the information.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Thanks for clarifying the rifle thingie - I always used to think of "assault weapon" as one that could spray shells on automatic but didn't know if I was right. Certainly isn't an area I know much about.

      Someone had to open the door or left it unlocked. 07-20-2012 06:28 PM
      Reports tonight say the guy entered the theater as a customer first - then exited the door, leaving it unlatched - then returned to start firing.
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      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Thanks for clarifying the rifle thingie - I always used to think of "assault weapon" as one that could spray shells on automatic but didn't know if I was right. Certainly isn't an area I know much about.

      Someone had to open the door or left it unlocked. 07-20-2012 06:28 PM
      Reports tonight say the guy entered the theater as a customer first - then exited the door, leaving it unlatched - then returned to start firing.

      You can buy tear gas grenades and riot helmets online from sites like

      Clear Out 2oz Tear Gas Grenade - For Sale - Keepshooting®
      Law Enforcement Gear | Homeland Security Products | Body Armor | Concealed Weapons

      Why was I not surprised to find dozens of sites like that?
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      But where exactly does one buy a 'Riot Helmet'?
      In a back alley I would imagine.

      You'd be surprised at the stuff that's available on the black market and it really ticks me off!

      I don't understand how some people can sell stuff like that, guns, bomb making materials, full body armor, etc. knowing full well it's meant for no good and someone could die from that sale. :confused:

      This whole incident has me just sick.

      After watching news of it on and off all day and hearing of the heartbreak and shattered families, I went and picked up my grand kids for a sleep over tonight. I guess I tuckered them right out, poor things, they have all fallen asleep, lol!

      It's just scary to think that one random psychotic act could actually make this the last time I see them.

      Make sure you hug someone you love tonight.

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Microsuck
    Horrible to have this happen.

    I heard that he told police he is "the Joker."

    Maybe a crazy, distraught fan?

    Anyway, condolences to the families involved.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    I know a lot of you won't agree with me, but I'm thinking right about now that, with 12 dead and 60+ wounded, the casualty count would have been less if someone in the movie crowd had been armed and not afraid to step in.
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    • Profile picture of the author dcristo
      Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

      I know a lot of you won't agree with me, but I'm thinking right about now that, with 12 dead and 60+ wounded, the casualty count would have been less if someone in the movie crowd had been armed and not afraid to step in.
      Thats true (actually probably would have had a negligible effect on the death count but whatever), but it would be pretty ridiculous to actually consider taking a gun with you just to watch a movie.
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      • Profile picture of the author zerofill
        His motive, in my opinion was rather easy to determine.

        • He was a bit of a recluse.
        • Had very low self esteem.
        • Is incapable of feeling certain emotions.

        He wanted to be famous.

        He wanted to fill some void he had by becoming famous... or notorious.

        The problem is... like what was mentioned earlier. He accomplished his goal, because the media let him.

        What would have been torture for him, is if they no longer mentioned his name in any way. Other then "gunman" and put a T.V. set where he could see it and it never mention his name... just gunman.

        If there was some way to make him feel as if his name would soon be forgotten. That would be the best punishment one could ever put on someone like him.

        I seriously doubt he will care whether he receives the death penalty. Only that his name lives on like Charles Manson.

        If I worked there, I would walk by him every 10 minutes, telling him his name will be forgotten.

        Piece of trash...
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        • Profile picture of the author highhopes
          Sadly we come to expect it from the big and mighty USA! What with 9,369 deaths by guns recorded this year up to date stats.... that's a town gone every year!
          USA tops the western countries for gun deaths...UK only 14.
          It seems the wild west culture will not go away until they do something drastic with the gun laws....or is it just the culture????
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by highhopes View Post

            Sadly we come to expect it from the big and mighty USA! What with 9,369 deaths by guns recorded this year up to date stats.... that's a town gone every year!
            USA tops the western countries for gun deaths...UK only 14.
            It seems the wild west culture will not go away until they do something drastic with the gun laws....or is it just the culture????
            Compaing the US to ANY country in such a way is a bit dumb. States vary. And comparing AMOUNTS? COME ON! If the UK and the US each had 900deaths, the US would actually have less per capita.

            And to use GUNS as a filter? COME ON! If you want to talk about murders, talk about MURDERS! In the US, guns are the preferred weapon. That is actually a GOOD thing, because it limits deaths, etc... In other countries it may be something else.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
              Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

              C If the UK and the US each had 900deaths, the US would actually have less per capita.
              That may be true but thing is this is not the case.

              US is the number one Westernized Developed Country if that makes sense for murder.

              5 per 100,000. Next is Canada with 1.8. That is a big drop. Okay Finland are at 2.3 but hardly anyone lives there. It is so cold everyone stays at home.

              Europe, New Zealand, Australia are around the 1.5 down to 0.5 mark.

              There are much worse countries than the US but they are in Africa or Central America that sort of thing.

              So you do have a problem out there. And it isn't drugs because you don't take any more than Europe that's for sure.

              America has a trigger happy culture and a Hollywood lets all be famous culture.

              Maybe it is a combination of the two at play.

              Having said that I consider US to be a safe country to go to.

              Dan
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

                That may be true but thing is this is not the case.

                US is the number one Westernized Developed Country if that makes sense for murder.

                5 per 100,000. Next is Canada with 1.8. That is a big drop. Okay Finland are at 2.3 but hardly anyone lives there. It is so cold everyone stays at home.

                Europe, New Zealand, Australia are around the 1.5 down to 0.5 mark.

                There are much worse countries than the US but they are in Africa or Central America that sort of thing.

                So you do have a problem out there. And it isn't drugs because you don't take any more than Europe that's for sure.

                America has a trigger happy culture and a Hollywood lets all be famous culture.

                Maybe it is a combination of the two at play.

                Having said that I consider US to be a safe country to go to.

                Dan
                I can't go TOO far, PC and all you know.... But how does it break down by state? The US WAS, and may still be, THE most culturally diverse nation on earth. And some states are VERY different from others.

                BTW they used to make Germany out to be an evil culture. They made IRELAND out to be one. BTW you DO realize that central and south america EXPORT a lot of murder, etc..., RIGHT....? The MAJOR recipient? The US! Arizona tried to stop that on their borders, and this admin told them LITERALLY to "GO TO HELL"!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
                  Yes Steve you are right.

                  I can't find a 2010 or 2012 breakdown by State that is easy to read.

                  But one I was looking at a minute ago had Vermont down the bottom and places like Louisiana and Florida at or near the top.

                  Have to say though that murder figures don't actually show the relation of the victim to the perpetrator or the context.

                  eg A lot of Gun Crime in UK is in London and it is predominantly Gang on Gang plus unfortunate instances where the victim is in the wrong place at the wrong time and gets caught up in Gang on Gang.

                  Put it like this, The Metropolitan Police (London) has a Unit called Operation Trident.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...olitan_Police)

                  Dan
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                  • Profile picture of the author jotranscriber
                    It's very sad at what happened in Colorado. Although I'm in the Philippines, I was shocked on this incident. My condolences to the family of the victims. I heard there is one Fil-Am youth who is now fighting for his life because of that incident. Shot through the stomach I think.

                    But anyway, I also read from the discussion here that some of the shooters from past shootings have been given psychological treatment or something. Does this mean that they are released?

                    How about the victims of those shootings? Just asking because it's sad when you think about lives lost during those incidents....
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by jotranscriber View Post

                      It's very sad at what happened in Colorado. Although I'm in the Philippines, I was shocked on this incident. My condolences to the family of the victims. I heard there is one Fil-Am youth who is now fighting for his life because of that incident. Shot through the stomach I think.

                      But anyway, I also read from the discussion here that some of the shooters from past shootings have been given psychological treatment or something. Does this mean that they are released?

                      How about the victims of those shootings? Just asking because it's sad when you think about lives lost during those incidents....
                      For some reason, they let minors and mentally impaired people do rather heinous things with little punishment. To make matters WORSE, Colorado has an unusual loophole. The prosecution has to PROVE he is SANE! USUALLY, the defense has to at least FEIGN having evidence that the defendant is insane.

                      Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

                That may be true but thing is this is not the case.

                US is the number one Westernized Developed Country if that makes sense for murder.

                5 per 100,000. Next is Canada with 1.8. That is a big drop. Okay Finland are at 2.3 but hardly anyone lives there. It is so cold everyone stays at home.

                Europe, New Zealand, Australia are around the 1.5 down to 0.5 mark.

                There are much worse countries than the US but they are in Africa or Central America that sort of thing.

                So you do have a problem out there. And it isn't drugs because you don't take any more than Europe that's for sure.

                America has a trigger happy culture and a Hollywood lets all be famous culture.

                Maybe it is a combination of the two at play.

                Having said that I consider US to be a safe country to go to.

                Dan
                You would not believe how Americans feel about people from other countries rattling on about gun rights in the US. We CHOOSE not to be like YOUR countries. If we condemn the practices of another country, we are accused of being controlling. Remember that one.

                Also realize that SOME of those gun deaths are the result of would-be victims using weapons to level a dangerous aggressor. Also - the stats also show that the cities that have the highest rate of gun deaths here also have gun control laws that make it hard for honest and mentally stable people to own guns so most guns are possessed only by criminals (who would not be obeying gun laws anyway). You could take ALL of our guns and they would still be available to criminals on the black market.

                Lastly - if you look at MANY of the shootings in the US, they are perpetrated by illegal aliens who are crawling over our southern border fully armed. They are causing almost war-like conditions along the border areas and are leveling many honest citizens who choose not to carry firearms.

                People in other countries need to back off us about our guns. You have governments that could start killing their own citizens en-mass just like Hitler did and there would be not sh** from shinola that any of you could do to save yourselves. That is why we own guns. If you don't like it - don't come to the US. We value our freedom to protect ourselves. Just because a nutcase (many times a state-made nutcase) walks in somewhere and opens fire doesn't mean that we need to get rid of guns -- remember that there were around 60 million gun owners who did NOT kill anyone today. And as mentioned before - if someone sane had had their own legally carried weapon with them - this nut job who probably would have had illegal guns if he couldn't get legal ones would have been stopped right away. Just like a 71 year old armed man stopped an armed robbery and saved lives the other day.

                Now those of you not in the US carry on with your murders by stabbing, poison, suffocation, drowning, strangulation, etc.

                Oh - and BTW FYI - America IS the most drugged country on earth. And those psychotropic drugs they are forcing down people's throats are known to make people homicidal. Those drugs are so dangerous they should not legal - not even for a doctor to prescribe.
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                • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
                  lol - nice one Sal

                  However where am I mentioning your right to bear arms being taken or your gun laws?

                  We don't care whether you have them or not, makes no difference. No European Country tells you to rescind this right. We couldn't care less.

                  And murder rate is murder rate. Also that murder rate of 5 per 100,000 is nothing to do with guns, it is simply your murder rate and it is way higher than equivalent countries. WAY higher.

                  But yes I agree that a little old lady in Vermont is unlikely to go a shoot a load of people whereas a drug dealing gang member in some inner city Ghetto is more likely to do this. Same in England.

                  Dan
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                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                    Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

                    lol - nice one Sal

                    However where am I mentioning your right to bear arms being taken or your gun laws?

                    We don't care whether you have them or not, makes no difference. No European Country tells you to rescind this right. We couldn't care less.

                    And murder rate is murder rate. Also that murder rate of 5 per 100,000 is nothing to do with guns, it is simply your murder rate and it is way higher than equivalent countries. WAY higher.

                    But yes I agree that a little old lady in Vermont is unlikely to go a shoot a load of people whereas a drug dealing gang member in some inner city Ghetto is more likely to do this. Same in England.

                    Dan
                    Sorry - I mistook your argument. Heard it so many times that I start reading "take your guns" into anything that points out the violence in this country. I think it relates to the massive drugging and other poisoning of our people. You can't expect people who are being drugged senseless to act normal.

                    I also attribute a lot of it to our break-down of the rule of law. When leaders act without regard to the law, the population will follow suit. Our gov has also done a pretty good job of protecting criminals and that is NOT a help at all.

                    Frankly, I feel if you armed EVERY citizen - illegalized anything but organic and natural foods and took people off of every not completely necessary drug in the pharmaceutical closet, and prosecuted criminals and disallowed them from suing citizens that they attempted to victimize, and generally took the government out of our homes and lives again, we'd see a pretty damned stable society again.
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                    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
                      Okay Sal.

                      I know you are hot on English Comp so wondered what you were seeing in my post.

                      Food for thought. Your last paragraph describes England pre-1900. Murder rate was a lot higher than now.

                      Dan
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                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                      I also attribute a lot of it to our break-down of the rule of law. When leaders act without regard to the law, the population will follow suit. Our gov has also done a pretty good job of protecting criminals and that is NOT a help at all.
                      Yeah, MANY representatives, and even the secretary of the treasury, are guilty of tax fraud! It is amazing it is so blatent and accepted! One representative fought HEAVILY to raise taxes in his state, against EVERYONE'S wishes! That was EPECIALLY on alcoholic products. Soon after that HE was CAUGHT going a LONG way to the next state where it was TAX FREE to buy such beverages. He was thus guilty of SEVERAL felonies, in addition to the obvious attempt to evade the tax. For TWO, he used a GOVERNMENT vehicle fueled with GOVERNMENT subsidized gas that was to be used for STATE GOVERNMENT business to make this booze run! It was illegal for him to even START the car to do such a thing.

                      And it is OBVIOUS that he didn't pass the tax for a legitimate reason because, if he had, he would have abided by it. So EVEN if he used his OWN vehicle, one would have to ask WHY he passed the law. BTW...Apparently NOTHING happened to him!

                      Frankly, I feel if you armed EVERY citizen - illegalized anything but organic and natural foods and took people off of every not completely necessary drug in the pharmaceutical closet, and prosecuted criminals and disallowed them from suing citizens that they attempted to victimize, and generally took the government out of our homes and lives again, we'd see a pretty damned stable society again.
                      You have that right! I will never forget the story about a woman that left her gun in her car to be totally legal with a new law, and her family restaurant(IIRC) was held at gunpoint and people got hurt. he regretted leaving it there. It works GREAT in switzerland, and Israel wouldn't exist without it.

                      As for the rest, a lot of the drugs have BAD problems.

                      Steve
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

                    lol - nice one Sal

                    However where am I mentioning your right to bear arms being taken or your gun laws?

                    We don't care whether you have them or not, makes no difference. No European Country tells you to rescind this right. We couldn't care less.

                    And murder rate is murder rate. Also that murder rate of 5 per 100,000 is nothing to do with guns, it is simply your murder rate and it is way higher than equivalent countries. WAY higher.

                    But yes I agree that a little old lady in Vermont is unlikely to go a shoot a load of people whereas a drug dealing gang member in some inner city Ghetto is more likely to do this. Same in England.

                    Dan
                    I don't know about England, but in the US, some poor are "TAUGHT" that they are repressed by "the rich"(Which includes MANY in the middle class), are, or have been, enslaved, etc... Some are even told to KILL! It really isn't surprising that some DO! Granted, some just ignore it. Some don't believe it. Some go on to do VERY well! But some FERVENTLY believe it, and even create big groups to spread the hatred.

                    BTW by a lot of the poor's definition of rich, $30,000 is RICH. That is only 2.5K/month, if you paid NO taxes. A car would bring that down to 2K(after insurance), an apartment might cost $1000 or more. Taxes would likely cost another $400+. So you could see that you would be lucky to have $500/month for gas, electricity, water, food, clothing, etc... Of course the financial industry suggests saving at LEAST $300-$600 a month for retirement! So do you want to live a meager life in comfort, or provide for retirement? At one time $30,000 was rich. NOW, it is rather low. For a single person, middle class. ALSO, it at least WAS about the average income in the US.

                    Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author wackiin
          I agree with him wantin fame heard on radio hes the only one thats been takin alive think that was his plan or sitting in the car didnt have the grapefruits to kill hisself
          Originally Posted by zerofill View Post

          His motive, in my opinion was rather easy to determine.

          • He was a bit of a recluse.
          • Had very low self esteem.
          • Is incapable of feeling certain emotions.

          He wanted to be famous.

          He wanted to fill some void he had by becoming famous... or notorious.

          The problem is... like what was mentioned earlier. He accomplished his goal, because the media let him.

          What would have been torture for him, is if they no longer mentioned his name in any way. Other then "gunman" and put a T.V. set where he could see it and it never mention his name... just gunman.

          If there was some way to make him feel as if his name would soon be forgotten. That would be the best punishment one could ever put on someone like him.

          I seriously doubt he will care whether he receives the death penalty. Only that his name lives on like Charles Manson.

          If I worked there, I would walk by him every 10 minutes, telling him his name will be forgotten.

          Piece of trash...
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by wackiin View Post

            I agree with him wantin fame heard on radio hes the only one thats been takin alive think that was his plan or sitting in the car didnt have the grapefruits to kill hisself
            Huckabee was just on Fox and said he is NOT going to mention "this guys" name. Maybe we should tell "this guy" that he must have a large family, because his last name is apparently GUY! Or ask him what nationality "This" is.

            BTW I said the same kind of things about UBL. DON'T give them so much credit.

            Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by zerofill View Post

          His motive, in my opinion was rather easy to determine.
          • He was a bit of a recluse.
          • Had very low self esteem.
          • Is incapable of feeling certain emotions.
          SO? How does THAT make him want to kill people? Frankly, he has a weird look about him. I wouldn't have trusted him.

          He wanted to be famous.

          He wanted to fill some void he had by becoming famous... or notorious.

          The problem is... like what was mentioned earlier. He accomplished his goal, because the media let him.

          What would have been torture for him, is if they no longer mentioned his name in any way. Other then "gunman" and put a T.V. set where he could see it and it never mention his name... just gunman.

          If there was some way to make him feel as if his name would soon be forgotten. That would be the best punishment one could ever put on someone like him.

          I seriously doubt he will care whether he receives the death penalty. Only that his name lives on like Charles Manson.

          If I worked there, I would walk by him every 10 minutes, telling him his name will be forgotten.

          Piece of trash...
          YEAH, and he got hs wish. They ALWAYS do in this regard, 8-(

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author drmanny
            I'm a cable installer and i was programing one of the cable boxes and the news came up, that was very depressing
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  • Profile picture of the author AMABIZ
    A horrible tragedy, I'm not sure what the answer is. Very sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    Just found he may have posted some adultfriendfinders.com ad for sex 2-3 days prior and mentioned if the person might visit him in prison later. He has red hair in his pic, says he prefers not to say if he does drugs, etc. Not sure if it's him. If it was prior to the shooting, probably was. Nutcase.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      A county sheriff on the local news here tonight said something I thought was on point about this case.

      He said he's disgusted that the "every channel/every minute" coverage is giving this shooter the attention he wanted. He said he has no problem with reporting on the story as more facts become available - but is disgusted by the media circus.

      I agree with him - the stories are getting ridiculous with reporters in various cities interviewing people going into theaters asking "are you afraid?". Maybe they are afraid of copycats (they are always afraid of that but it never seems to happen in cases like this) but in some cities (Mobile, Al is one) they have posted multiple police cars outside theaters, have cops walking around...and they are checking purses for weapons.

      I understand an event like this makes people afraid - but do we have to show that fear 24/7? The Sheriff was right - this is giving the criminal all the attention he craved. If this guy didn't want attention, he would have just shot himself instead of 71 other people.
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    • Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      Just found he may have posted some adultfriendfinders.com ad for sex 2-3 days prior and mentioned if the person might visit him in prison later. He has red hair in his pic, says he prefers not to say if he does drugs, etc. Not sure if it's him. If it was prior to the shooting, probably was. Nutcase.
      James Holmes Had A Sex Website Profile - Business Insider

      Police Have Executed A Controlled Detonation At James Holmes' Apartment: UPDATE 13:43 EDT
      http://www.businessinsider.com/polic...artment-2012-7
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  • Marilyn Manson's commentary for Rolling Stone after Columbine is just as relevant for today's shooting in Colorado : Music

    (This is a frank commentary. It may use language and analogy that some may disagree with, but it remains a lucid commentary on media and the celebrity criminal, and many points (imo) are spot-on)
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Amazingly accurate article except he is so clueless (first paragraph) and he is sucha sucha (well all the nasty words people use about women) -

    ...and to compare himself to Jim Morrison - what a *@%!

    but yes to stay on topic he is right about the rest.

    We glorify violence. You are a weirdo who needs attention? Do something horrible.

    Surf the channels - murder, incest, murder, double murder, child molestation, larceny, armed robbery, drive by murder, mass murder, serial murder, torture and murder, murder and cruelty to children and helpless animals -

    oh and that is just the news. (lol)

    The movies and other programs are even worse perversions, add porn and the worst of all, infomercials that repeat night after night hundreds of times. Makes you want to murder your TV.

    Don't mean to 'make light' of a serious tragedy - but we just had the pimp of darkness telling us how it is so I could use a little light.
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  • Profile picture of the author wackiin
    Dont need todo anything with the gun law we need the normal to tote guns coulda stopped this before it got thisbad. the nuts will get guns no matter what.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Michael Moore has no shame; https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/pos...50931130306857

    (America is to blame for this, not the psychopath)

    No doubt he will make a new 'documentary,' exploiting the suffering of those who have lost loved ones, just like he did the columbine shooting.

    The man just makes me cringe.

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Michael Moore has no shame; https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/pos...50931130306857

      (America is to blame for this, not the psychopath)

      No doubt he will make a new 'documentary,' exploiting the suffering of those who have lost loved ones, just like he did the columbine shooting.

      The man just makes me cringe.

      -Chris
      This was expected DECADES ago, possibly hundreds of years ago. It is TYPICAL! They have all the words and anger out there, and I HAVE heard some connecting things. One HERE already did.

      There are PLENTY of depressed upset gunowners here that wouldn't even THINK about the gun to kill someone even in a heated argument. HECK, israel and switzerland have even MORE, as a percentage!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW I haven't heard marlyn mansons music recently enough to give an opinion, but he has some nerve to say he has ANYTHING right. In that weird getup, spouting off hatred about chrsitianity, etc? GIVE ME A BREAK. You can NOT describe light without describing dark. Likewise, you can't talk about the innocent without referring to the guilty, etc... ALSO, it isn't like he often speaks out about this, or tries to be heard.

    The Bible, whether you believe it or not, is supposed to be about relationships and their life. In the beginning it speaks of two brothers and one sacrifices more to please god, finds favor, and the other out of hostility kills him. In Esther, she gets married to the king. HEY, that is NOTHING! WHY did THAT get in the bible? People were sentenced to death, etc.... Well, it talks about a planned GENOCIDE and the collusion to prevent it.
    But have such things happened because of the Bible? NOPE! Hitler didn't like the church, corrupted it, and fed off of some people's lack of understanding. STILL, that was a MINOR part of his whatever.

    As for the half dead man, most have it reduced such that the man is missing. The idea was supposed to be that he ISN'T dead.

    If a persons actions were truly governed by what he or she saw, read etc.... The world would be SUCH an easy place. One queston though. The Bible says a lot of good things ALSO! In synagoges, they recite what jesus said were the main laws! In christianity they often require a pledge t the first, and the second is the goal, etc.... The rules? Honor god, and treat your neighbor as yourself. So WHY is the bad taken, but the good isn't? Anyway, the bible is certanly NOT the first such book, and it wasn't the last.

    BTW this is NOT a relgious post. I was simply trying to bring reason to the discussion about this book.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author NicheDad
    Things seem to be getting back to normal around there: Local twitter users and tweets in Aurora, CO
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  • Profile picture of the author zerofill
    The one thing that makes no sense to me...

    Why so many people everywhere I read right now, keep blaming it on gun laws etc...

    Seriously... a fruitcake like this doesn't need a gun. If he didn't have a gun he would have something else, or make something else. I seriously doubt if there was not 1 gun in the world... it would truly lower the actual murder rate.

    People have been murdering other people, long before there were guns.

    Now it may very well lower the accidental death rate. But I don't believe it would do a damn thing to murder rates.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by zerofill View Post

      The one thing that makes no sense to me...

      Why so many people everywhere I read right now, keep blaming it on gun laws etc...

      Seriously... a fruitcake like this doesn't need a gun. If he didn't have a gun he would have something else, or make something else. I seriously doubt if there was not 1 gun in the world... it would truly lower the actual murder rate.

      People have been murdering other people, long before there were guns.

      Now it may very well lower the accidental death rate. But I don't believe it would do a damn thing to murder rates.
      YEAH, and his not needing a gun isn't just a belief. It is FACT! Look at how he boobytrapped the apartment!

      HECK, I bought a little book, for another reason, and it tells how to use two COMMON chemicals available WITHOUT a license, permit, etc... They are harmless, and not weapons at all, but combined, they are pretty bad. If it works as advertised, and there is a good chance it could, it could have killed everyone in that theater. The people outside could have wondered why it was so quiet and enter to find everyone in the theater and projection room DEAD! NO BULLETS! It might have taken a week to determine how they died! They would have had to find residue, or check the lungs. There are too many ways to kill. HECK, many of the weapons used against the US army in those wars didn't use guns. People don't generally lose limbs now because of guns!

      And I have a book written by the US NAVY that talks about weapons used in WWI! The ONLY reasons why they aren't used in wars today is that they don't target well, and are against international law. The US, and most other countries agreed to not use biological and chemical weapons anymore. As for chemical weapons? FORGET abut gas masks! Some EAT THROUGH gas masks. The gas masks only provide limited protection. Of course it hurts SKIN also!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KyleStarkey
    It seems everyone is blaming the other side.

    More gun laws/ less gun laws. I have my own personal beliefs but Im not going to share them here. Now it is about the people who have lost their lifes. clearly this guy has issues and people are looking for a reason but their isnt one. he was just crazy and blaming the other side isnt going to help.

    This happened 2 miles from my house. I know a couple people that were in the theater and they are very shookin up and all the media wants to do is place blame or get internviews on something and it is not the place or the time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by KyleStarkey View Post

      It seems everyone is blaming the other side.

      More gun laws/ less gun laws. I have my own personal beliefs but Im not going to share them here. Now it is about the people who have lost their lifes. clearly this guy has issues and people are looking for a reason but their isnt one. he was just crazy and blaming the other side isnt going to help.

      This happened 2 miles from my house. I know a couple people that were in the theater and they are very shookin up and all the media wants to do is place blame or get internviews on something and it is not the place or the time.
      Somebody on this thread finally gets it...I guess maybe it's because we're both from Colorado, but the real point here is to mourn for those that died and pay respect their family and friends.

      It's too bad some people want to use this as an excuse to promote their own political agendas.

      RIP to the 12 who died and may their family and friends find peace as soon as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Maybe they should make "Matt McQuinn" famous! He DIED to keep his girlfriend alive! She will probably remember him. I hope she loved him as much.

    Steve
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  • This is an old story, granted...but consider this -

    Switzerland and the gun -
    The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

    Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.

    BBC News | EUROPE | Switzerland and the gun
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Some on this thread have put forward the argument that if some of the other patrons had been armed, the lunatic could've been taken down.

    In an open, well lit, clean air space that may be true. In this incident however, there would've been crossfire in a smoke filled, dimly lit, enclosed environment with a lot of people running around in panic. That could've made the toll a lot higher than it was.

    Anyway, Kyle and Kurt have got it right. This isn't about the 2nd amendment, gun control or personal freedom, it's about the tragic loss of innocent lives.

    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

    RIP to the 12 who died and may their family and friends find peace as soon as possible.
    And a speedy recovery to those who were injured.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    It's Not My Job Department?

    They interviewed the clerk in the gun store where 3 weeks ago the MASS MURDERER bought an AK- style rifle. (on TV)

    These were his comments.

    The guy looked crazed.
    His eyes were glazed over.
    His eyes were as big as silver dollars.
    Not somebody who should be buying a gun.
    Three weeks later I am shocked that this happened.

    -------------

    No guilt, no shame, no horror. Just matter-of-fact, so what else is new.


    Hello? I don't know about you but I think this idiot should have refused to sell someone a gun that he has made the above observations about.

    What would it take for a red flag? Shoot up the store when given his bill?

    I would have called the cops on the spot - and yes I know they would probably be prevented from allowing me to refuse to sell a gun - what with the way we are such heroes of civil liberty for criminals and crazies -- but just maybe they would have demanded a 'sobriety test' or watched him.



    I am not for gun control and I don't think guns kill people - it is people that kill people.

    People who break the law (criminals) would not care if it was against the law or not to have a gun. They would have one. So why take them away from innocent people who would use them responsibly for protection. Makes no sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

      It's Not My Job Department?

      They interviewed the clerk in the gun store where 3 weeks ago the MASS MURDERER bought an AK- style rifle. (on TV)

      These were his comments.

      The guy looked crazed.
      His eyes were glazed over.
      His eyes were as big as silver dollars.
      Not somebody who should be buying a gun.
      Three weeks later I am shocked that this happened.

      -------------

      No guilt, no shame, no horror. Just matter-of-fact, so what else is new.


      Hello? I don't know about you but I think this idiot should have refused to sell someone a gun that he has made the above observations about.

      What would it take for a red flag? Shoot up the store when given his bill?

      I would have called the cops on the spot - and yes I know they would probably be prevented from allowing me to refuse to sell a gun - what with the way we are such heroes of civil liberty for criminals and crazies -- but just maybe they would have demanded a 'sobriety test' or watched him.



      I am not for gun control and I don't think guns kill people - it is people that kill people.

      People who break the law (criminals) would not care if it was against the law or not to have a gun. They would have one. So why take them away from innocent people who would use them responsibly for protection. Makes no sense.
      MY initial feelings about that guy, seeing the photos HERE, were the SAME! But I doubt they had a way to report that or assess it. If he didn't sell it someone else likely would have. A number of people DO have this look. There is another type shared by many, like manson, koresh, the unabomber, etc.... It would be nice if there were some scanner that could read this.

      BTW that norwegian guy, as I recall, had the same look this guy does. There COULD be false hits but if it is THIS extreme, it warrants a deeper look.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author jotranscriber
      Originally Posted by Patrician View Post


      I am not for gun control and I don't think guns kill people - it is people that kill people.

      People who break the law (criminals) would not care if it was against the law or not to have a gun. They would have one. So why take them away from innocent people who would use them responsibly for protection. Makes no sense.
      Yes, I agree, but with that, you also have to strengthen the implementation of those laws, strengthen the enforcement capabilities of the authorities, make the justice system be really more leaning to the victims and not to the criminals, weigh the outcome of their crimes and put them behind bars for good... That way you will put the some apprehension to the guy would want to plan this despicable thing.

      Joseph
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      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        Police and grabbing you at the airport..,

        Police surrounding the Movie so you can watch a movie..,

        So if someone bombs a Grocery store, we need police escorts to get a loaf of bread??

        Yes, police presence every where, every store, every corner, police presence in your house , camera's everywhere, now you feel safe....,don't you?

        ...just like the "other" military run governments, yeah, we are the exception, we will do

        The Police State right, because we got The Patriot Act -'cough'- I mean, the constitution, whatever that means, since it is not being enforced, so what does it really mean?

        Illusion and the "feel" of safety is sooooooo blissful and cozy.

        Now you can curl up to your favorite propaganda program with a hot cup of cocoa with marshmallows and feel safe and secure, all warm and fuzzy like.

        The "stupid" news, "conditioning" news, is not even mentioning the odd circumstances and details, go figure.

        Useless noise.


        The 13th Warrior
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        • Profile picture of the author jotranscriber
          Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

          Police and grabbing you at the airport..,

          Police surrounding the Movie so you can watch a movie..,

          So if someone bombs a Grocery store, we need police escorts to get a loaf of bread??

          Yes, police presence every where, every store, every corner, police presence in your house , camera's everywhere, now you feel safe....,don't you?

          ...just like the "other" military run governments, yeah, we are the exception, we will do

          The Police State right, because we got The Patriot Act -'cough'- I mean, the constitution, whatever that means, since it is not being enforced, so what does it really mean?

          Illusion and the "feel" of safety is sooooooo blissful and cozy.

          Now you can curl up to your favorite propaganda program with a hot cup of cocoa with marshmallows and feel safe and secure, all warm and fuzzy like.

          The "stupid" news, "conditioning" news, is not even mentioning the odd circumstances and details, go figure.

          Useless noise.


          The 13th Warrior
          This is like the Persons of Interest TV series I'm watching right now, but the other way around. There the plot of the TV series is that the government is out to stop terrorist from doing their thing, but not stop criminals from doing their thing to the civilian so the the lead characters turn vigilante and chases after the bad guys....

          Cameras on every street corner watching everyone's movement.... is that really for real?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by The 13th Warrior View Post

          Police and grabbing you at the airport..,

          Police surrounding the Movie so you can watch a movie..,

          So if someone bombs a Grocery store, we need police escorts to get a loaf of bread??

          Yes, police presence every where, every store, every corner, police presence in your house , camera's everywhere, now you feel safe....,don't you?

          ...just like the "other" military run governments, yeah, we are the exception, we will do

          The Police State right, because we got The Patriot Act -'cough'- I mean, the constitution, whatever that means, since it is not being enforced, so what does it really mean?

          Illusion and the "feel" of safety is sooooooo blissful and cozy.

          Now you can curl up to your favorite propaganda program with a hot cup of cocoa with marshmallows and feel safe and secure, all warm and fuzzy like.

          The "stupid" news, "conditioning" news, is not even mentioning the odd circumstances and details, go figure.

          Useless noise.


          The 13th Warrior
          Truth be told, I feel less safe than I have EVER felt in my life! Don't worry guys, I am a canary! Miners used to take canaries into mines, because they needed a lot of oxygen. If oxygen dropped, the canary showed symptoms while they still had time to get out.

          I use a LOT of public transportation. cars, Taxis, Planes. I get patted down by the TSA. I cross state lines. I leave my home for long stretches. People always say they can't reach me, even if they could simply call my cell phone.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            I agree Steve!

            I have been watching society spiral out of control for years now, despite my trying to open peoples eyes to what is going on.

            People see what they choose to see and believe what they want to believe, but I'm not so naive to believe that things will get better or that I'll ever have the luxury of feeling safe again. Which is actually a good thing as preparation and planning arise from that.

            Terra
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            • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              I agree Steve!

              I have been watching society spiral out of control for years now, despite my trying to open peoples eyes to what is going on.

              Terra
              I believe it's called moral relativism, which sadly has been allowed to contaminate western education and culture.

              Historically the downfall of civilizations has been due to internal rot, not some external boogeyman.

              The west is rotting exponentially.

              -Chris
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              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

                I believe it's called moral relativism, which sadly has been allowed to contaminate western education and culture.

                Historically the downfall of civilizations has been due to internal rot, not some external boogeyman.

                The west is rotting exponentially.

                -Chris
                Whoa! What happened to "Walter", haha!

                Yes, that is true, however I don't see it as only pertaining to "The West", I see it world wide.

                Terra
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  This is the problem for me with the constant media blitz and 24/7 discussion of one instance of violence. The conjecture goes too far.

                  Colorado gun purchase laws are less restrictive than in most other states. Gun registration requirements are prohibited by CO law. No permit is needed to buy a gun - or many guns - and no license is required.

                  This guy was from California - which has tighter laws regulating sales, possession and use of firearms and ammunition. Had he been in a state where registration, etc was strict - he might not have been able to set up and conduct this attack without being noticed beforehand.

                  There have been many mass attacks planned but thwarted due to tight gun laws - not surprising an attack might succeed in a state with lax requirements.

                  The Ft Hood attacks a few years ago was the result human decisions not to check out problems with the shooter before the event - decisions based on not wanting to be politically incorrect and a reluctance to investigate someone and potentially damage their "career path".

                  In Colorado the right to bear arms is more important, it seems, than making sure a crazy person can't buy multiple weapons without being noticed. We have a love/hate relationship with firearms - and fact is when guns and ammunition are readily available and unlimited, you will have incidents as a result. We know that - we just don't expect it to happen on such a massive scale. When it does, we are shocked and appalled. Will this result in tightening Colorado's gun laws? We'll see.

                  Even so, it seems to me the discourse about one tragic crime has spiraled into unreality. Columbine was 12 years ago. In a state where gun laws are permissive, no one should be surprised that gun crimes might be higher than in states with tighter purchase/use regulations.

                  One nutcase who targeted a crowded theater to create chaos - should not be the flagship act to predicting the downfall of the western world. That gives this guy far too much credit and importance.
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            • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post



              People see what they choose to see and believe what they want to believe,


              There it is right there.

              Just like marketing, people are either looking for what they want or they will move on to who either has it or can promise it, despite superior products, for most, it never was about truth, only what they like or they deem digestible to their liking.

              A whino only cares about hustling for his next fix, looking for vitamins and the truth of health might as well be 7.2 solar systems away in perception and desire.

              We had a rash of people running people down on sidewalks with cars.

              Time to ban cars?

              They are going to continue to push, to how far and much we will accept, and we WILL accept a LOT, so as long as we can have our beer and t.v..

              One thing about sheep:

              When you "cook" it just right, it melts in your mouth, makes the killing worth it.

              Prepare for the temperature to be adjusted for proper tenderization.

              The 13th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    It is a tragic loss. Perhaps I'm just getting inured to violence. It was not my first thought. My first thought was about what was wrong with the guy. Then I started wondering about why Colorado? There have been several "open fire" shootings in Colorado. There have been some serial killers as well - along with just really bizarre single murders. 2 waitresses in Central City that I knew were killed in some pretty hideous incidents.

    What is going on with the people of Colorado?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      It is a tragic loss. Perhaps I'm just getting inured to violence. It was not my first thought. My first thought was about what was wrong with the guy. Then I started wondering about why Colorado? There have been several "open fire" shootings in Colorado. There have been some serial killers as well - along with just really bizarre single murders. 2 waitresses in Central City that I knew were killed in some pretty hideous incidents.

      What is going on with the people of Colorado?
      Well, you have YOURSELF spoken about flouride. One little ominous fact.....

      Solving the mystery of the Colorado Brown Stain. [J Hist Dent. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

      Where was flouride discovered? COLORADO!!!!!!!

      WHO KNOWS? Maybe it IS "something in the water".

      But YEAH! I could think of a lot of reasons to kill people, etc.... but to prepare for war and just blast people in this show? Logically, this must have been done to get attention. As I understand it, it was done in a premier, with red paint in his hair, and he said he was the joker. With his face, he LOOKS like the joker. MAYBE he did it just to do it. But to WHAT end? EVEN if he was freed, and world famous, what was the reason?

      There was once a movie, called unbreakable. A guy started by exposing a guy as invulnerable. Eventually, at the end, the invulnerable guy touches that guys hand. One of his powers is sensing intent and past of a person he touches. And he finds that that guy was setting traps all over. WHY? Because he had osteogenesis imperfecta, and he fancied himself, in that way, a supervillan, and he looked for someone with the OPPOSITE conditon so he could be that persons nemesis. He sad he did it simply to find a place. Some people just seem to WANT to be evil.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Word to the wise though. Heysal is right. Too much there is happening. If were king, I would be lookng at all their lives to try to tie things together.

    PARENTS
    BACKGROUND
    SCHOOLING
    DISTRICTS
    CITIES
    FOOD
    DRINKS
    FAITH
    BOOKS
    POPULAR ITEMS
    SURGERY
    DRUGS
    DOCTORS

    They MIGHT find some interesting connection.

    OK, maybe I am weird. I never gave into peer pressure. I never wanted to be popular. etc.... But games, books, movies, friends, etc... never affected my choices.

    I may quote books, movies, etc... a lot, but some "true" stuff I will discount, and some fiction I will use as examples. When I was a kid, I had an imagination. I still do to a degree. I never let it interfere with reality. I really have a problem when people say little kids are so affected. Then again, I wanted to be an electronic engineer. I didn't want to be a toaster, superman(THE superman in the comics), or even a firefighter(At least t is real, but my goals were realistic for me). ALL are things I have heard kids say they wanted to be. But are they the norm, etc?

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      Another Clandestine patsy, like the bridge terrorist , the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, the model airplane terrorist, on and on.

      Too many things don't add up about this case, but don't expect to get it from what you consider "news".

      Public conditioning through staged events.

      Using death and pain to steer the public to gulp down whatever the government is about to throw down, of course, "for our safety".

      Most are not going to me minded being "herded" into something, as long as they "feel safe" which in reality, a false and illusionary fact of safety itself.

      When you are in prison or in a holding cell, aren't you "safe" from the bad world?

      That is what they sold to those who went to the death camps.

      To each his own, its your neck.


      The 13th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author GforceSage
    Shooter was on vicodin. Witnesses say he was very calmly walking up and down the aisle shooting at random into the crowd.
    He purchased his gear online from a place in Missouri on July 2nd, delivered 2nd day air.
    He has no priors, so he legally bought his guns and picked them up after the 10 day waiting period.
    Gun bans would have had to have been started in the 1950's to have any effect. If you take away gun rights, the honest folks turn them in and the bad guys still have them. No argument there. You can go into any large city and get whatever weapon you need on the black market and that includes modifications. If someone wants you dead bad enough, there is no magic savior. I know that the news was in no way trying to add any humor to this tragedy, but they were describing just how intense the scene was inside the theater as the theaters security video was being shown and it showed some guy dressed at Batman running out the front door.
    R.I.P. The Batman hardcores are mostly good people.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by GforceSage View Post

      Shooter was on vicodin. Witnesses say he was very calmly walking up and down the aisle shooting at random into the crowd.
      He purchased his gear online from a place in Missouri on July 2nd, delivered 2nd day air.
      He has no priors, so he legally bought his guns and picked them up after the 10 day waiting period.
      Vicodin contains a combination of acetaminophen and hydrocodone. Hydrocodone is in a group of drugs called opioid pain relievers. An opioid is sometimes called a narcotic.

      Acetaminophen is a less potent pain reliever that increases the effects of hydrocodone.

      Vicodin is used to relieve moderate to severe pain.

      Vicodin may impair your thinking or reactions. Avoid driving or operating machinery until you know how Vicodin will affect you. Avoid drinking alcohol. It may increase your risk of liver damage while taking acetaminophen.

      NOT to be taken if you are mentally impaired! MAY lead to depression and hallucinations. It ALSO may give you various feelings like anxiety

      Gun bans would have had to have been started in the 1950's to have any effect. If you take away gun rights, the honest folks turn them in and the bad guys still have them. No argument there. You can go into any large city and get whatever weapon you need on the black market and that includes modifications. If someone wants you dead bad enough, there is no magic savior. I know that the news was in no way trying to add any humor to this tragedy, but they were describing just how intense the scene was inside the theater as the theaters security video was being shown and it showed some guy dressed at Batman running out the front door.
      R.I.P. The Batman hardcores are mostly good people.
      Actually, 1950 is STILL too late. Some MAKE ammo and guns. The info and parts ARE out there. They CAN'T restrict access to parts, because industry would come to a standstill. BESIDES, one famous company doesn't use ANY of the standard parts, and they are among the BEST! Some of the best and fanciest guns were made BEFORE 1950. They don't generally sell them now, because they are illegal and few would need them. THOSE were assault rifles, etc... What they call assault weapons today are laughable toys by comparison. Just look at the big gangsters in the first half of the 1900s They were FAR more dangerous than the people that robbed that bank in hollywood. YOU KNOW, the ones that held the police at bay for HOURS!?!?!? IMAGINE if the gangsters in the first half of the 1900s had the armor of the hollywood robbers. The police wouldn't have a chance.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Jaryl
    In my opinion, Marilyn Manson (YES, Marilyn Manson), who spoke on the Columbine shooting, had it right in his commentary written 13 years ago that is still as relevant as ever. I think everyone needs to read it now.. I wish more people would pay attention:

    It is sad to think that the first few people on earth needed no books, movies, games or music to inspire cold-blooded murder. The day that Cain bashed his brother Abel's brains in, the only motivation he needed was his own human disposition to violence. Whether you interpret the Bible as literature or as the final word of whatever God may be, Christianity has given us an image of death and sexuality that we have based our culture around. A half-naked dead man hangs in most homes and around our necks, and we have just taken that for granted all our lives. Is it a symbol of hope or hopelessness? The world's most famous murder-suicide was also the birth of the death icon -- the blueprint for celebrity. Unfortunately, for all of their inspiring morality, nowhere in the Gospels is intelligence praised as a virtue.

    A lot of people forget or never realize that I started my band as a criticism of these very issues of despair and hypocrisy. The name Marilyn Manson has never celebrated the sad fact that America puts killers on the cover of Time magazine, giving them as much notoriety as our favorite movie stars. From Jesse James to Charles Manson, the media, since their inception, have turned criminals into folk heroes. They just created two new ones when they plastered those dip****s Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' pictures on the front of every newspaper. Don't be surprised if every kid who gets pushed around has two new idols.
    We applaud the creation of a bomb whose sole purpose is to destroy all of mankind, and we grow up watching our president's brains splattered all over Texas. Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised. Does anyone think the Civil War was the least bit civil? If television had existed, you could be sure they would have been there to cover it, or maybe even participate in it, like their violent car chase of Princess Di. Disgusting vultures looking for corpses, exploiting, ****ing, filming and serving it up for our hungry appetites in a gluttonous display of endless human stupidity.

    When it comes down to who's to blame for the high school murders in Littleton, Colorado, throw a rock and you'll hit someone who's guilty. We're the people who sit back and tolerate children owning guns, and we're the ones who tune in and watch the up-to-the-minute details of what they do with them. I think it's terrible when anyone dies, especially if it is someone you know and love. But what is more offensive is that when these tragedies happen, most people don't really care any more than they would about the season finale of Friends or The Real World. I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt.

    Man's greatest fear is chaos. It was unthinkable that these kids did not have a simple black-and-white reason for their actions. And so a scapegoat was needed. I remember hearing the initial reports from Littleton, that Harris and Klebold were wearing makeup and were dressed like Marilyn Manson, whom they obviously must worship, since they were dressed in black. Of course, speculation snowballed into making me the poster boy for everything that is bad in the world. These two idiots weren't wearing makeup, and they weren't dressed like me or like goths. Since Middle America has not heard of the music they did listen to (KMFDM and Rammstein, among others), the media picked something they thought was similar.

    Responsible journalists have reported with less publicity that Harris and Klebold were not Marilyn Manson fans -- that they even disliked my music. Even if they were fans, that gives them no excuse, nor does it mean that music is to blame. Did we look for James Huberty's inspiration when he gunned down people at McDonald's? What did Timothy McVeigh like to watch? What about David Koresh, Jim Jones? Do you think entertainment inspired Kip Kinkel, or should we blame the fact that his father bought him the guns he used in the Springfield, Oregon, murders? What inspires Bill Clinton to blow people up in Kosovo? Was it something that Monica Lewinsky said to him? Isn't killing just killing, regardless if it's in Vietnam or Jonesboro, Arkansas? Why do we justify one, just because it seems to be for the right reasons? Should there ever be a right reason? If a kid is old enough to drive a car or buy a gun, isn't he old enough to be held personally responsible for what he does with his car or gun? Or if he's a teenager, should someone else be blamed because he isn't as enlightened as an eighteen-year-old?

    America loves to find an icon to hang its guilt on. But, admittedly, I have assumed the role of Antichrist; I am the Nineties voice of individuality, and people tend to associate anyone who looks and behaves differently with illegal or immoral activity. Deep down, most adults hate people who go against the grain. It's comical that people are naive enough to have forgotten Elvis, Jim Morrison and Ozzy so quickly. All of them were subjected to the same age-old arguments, scrutiny and prejudice. I wrote a song called "Lunchbox," and some journalists have interpreted it as a song about guns. Ironically, the song is about being picked on and fighting back with my Kiss lunch box, which I used as a weapon on the playground. In 1979, metal lunch boxes were banned because they were considered dangerous weapons in the hands of delinquents. I also wrote a song called "Get Your Gunn." The title is spelled with two n's because the song was a reaction to the murder of Dr. David Gunn, who was killed in Florida by pro-life activists while I was living there. That was the ultimate hypocrisy I witnessed growing up: that these people killed someone in the name of being "pro-life."
    The somewhat positive messages of these songs are usually the ones that sensationalists misinterpret as promoting the very things I am decrying. Right now, everyone is thinking of how they can prevent things like Littleton. How do you prevent AIDS, world war, depression, car crashes? We live in a free country, but with that freedom there is a burden of personal responsibility. Rather than teaching a child what is moral and immoral, right and wrong, we first and foremost can establish what the laws that govern us are. You can always escape hell by not believing in it, but you cannot escape death and you cannot escape prison.

    It is no wonder that kids are growing up more cynical; they have a lot of information in front of them. They can see that they are living in a world that's made of bull****. In the past, there was always the idea that you could turn and run and start something better. But now America has become one big mall, and because of the Internet and all of the technology we have, there's nowhere to run. People are the same everywhere. Sometimes music, movies and books are the only things that let us feel like someone else feels like we do. I've always tried to let people know it's OK, or better, if you don't fit into the program. Use your imagination -- if some geek from Ohio can become something, why can't anyone else with the willpower and creativity?

    I chose not to jump into the media frenzy and defend myself, though I was begged to be on every single TV show in existence. I didn't want to contribute to these fame-seeking journalists and opportunists looking to fill their churches or to get elected because of their self-righteous finger-pointing. They want to blame entertainment? Isn't religion the first real entertainment? People dress up in costumes, sing songs and dedicate themselves in eternal fandom. Everyone will agree that nothing was more entertaining than Clinton shooting off his prick and then his bombs in true political form. And the news -- that's obvious. So is entertainment to blame? I'd like media commentators to ask themselves, because their coverage of the event was some of the most gruesome entertainment any of us have seen.

    I think that the National Rifle Association is far too powerful to take on, so most people choose Doom, The Basketball Diaries or yours truly. This kind of controversy does not help me sell records or tickets, and I wouldn't want it to. I'm a controversial artist, one who dares to have an opinion and bothers to create music and videos that challenge people's ideas in a world that is watered-down and hollow. In my work I examine the America we live in, and I've always tried to show people that the devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. So don't expect the end of the world to come one day out of the blue -- it's been happening every day for a long time.
    From Columbine: Whose Fault Is It? | Culture News | Rolling Stone

    EDIT: Sorry, didn't see it was posted already.

    To say that we shouldn't count Marilyn Manson's opinion because of the way he looks and performs is just blatant Ad Hominem to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Nothing about the Pimp of Darkness' looks or performance is a problem - and he makes some valid points, it is true - I am sure anybody with a working thought process would see what he sees and probably agree.

    ... but at the same time he is shallow and really severely deluded in some respects - and where it counts the most.


    The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it.
    Ayn Rand
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    He isn't the first to commit such a crime, nor will he be the last. I was not commenting in relation to the shooting nor did I interpret Terras comment as such.

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Kay,

      Nor was my comment stemming from this incident alone.

      For instance, 911 took place over a decade ago. This isn't even mentioning all the wars that take place on a daily basis and last for years or the civil unrest in a lot of countries.

      Gangs and drug related crime going on for years are another example, not to mention kidnapping, rape, theft, police and government corruption, etc.

      It would be pretty naive and silly of me for just this one unfortunate and tragic incident to cause me to come to my above stated beliefs, don't you think?

      It just so happens that this particular incident brought up other events, topics and thought processes just as all threads in the OT have a tendency to do.

      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Well again, criminals and crazies do not care what the law is.

    This week in one day, there were 7 separate murders in Oakland, California - and while it was just a little high for one day - it is 'business as usual' in that city. Same story, different day.

    ... and as far as the fall of western civilization (and the world) don't look now but we have been on the slippery slope for quite some time.

    Those of us who believe 'the darkest hour is just before the dawn' know that it is just the beginning of 'Jacob's trouble' and that things are really spiraling out of control faster and faster.

    It will keep getting worse before it will get much better than it has ever been.

    So wait, watch and DUCK!
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Yeah, nobody here thinks this is NEW. It appears to be getting worse, etc... But we are handling it so well because we HAVE seen it before. Suicide by cop, group murder suicide, etc... was apparently UNHEARD OF in the US when I was a kid. So this apparently IS a relatively new problem. Of course many on this board may be half my age, so they feel differently.

    I am ALL FOR them coming up with REAL profiles, and using them to determine what otherwise legal person shouldn't get a gun. They keep coming up with UNREAL profiles.

    LONER? Come ON! I may be consider a loaner. OH, I talk to the neighbors sometimes, and coworkers, etc... and I could talk their heads off. BTW they LIKE me! I just went to the pharmicist, for example, and they called me by my name, FROM MEMORY, and we had a nice conversation. But I still may be described as a loner. Being a loner alone means NOTHING.

    MIDDLE AGE MALE? GIVE ME A BREAK! MOST middle age males don't hurt ANYONE, and MANY others DO!

    Has NAILS? HEY, I probably STILL have a box of nails, screws, etc.... SO WHAT? BTW I got them for woodwork.

    Has FERTILIZER? I bet MANY do.

    Even the idea of living with ones mother. Some may have thought I did, especially after she moved in here WITHOUT my permission. Of course one nice thing about my current job is that most know I COULDN'T. Apparently, with the current economy, MANY "live at home".

    And Jewell did NOT fit "THE PROFILE". "THE" profile was that it was a middle eastern muslim. They CHANGED the profile, and picked jewell because he was available.

    For the latest shooter, they also said the COST was a giveaway. BZZZT! WRONG! The last time I bought a gun, the little one I got cost over $900! That was perhaps 14 years ago. The fact that the US government was about to make it illegal didn't help. EVERYONE wanted to buy such guns while they were legal, and prices were jacked up.

    Mentally unstable and/or incompetent people SHOULDN'T have guns. PHYSICALLY agressive people SHOULDN'T have guns. In short, people likely to use guns out of simple anger, or at random, shouldn't have them. And that really IS the reason why criminals can't have them. They have, by their acts, PROVEN that they are unstable or physically agressive.

    If my mother had a gun, with alzheimers, I would have done anything to take it from her. MY gun is hidden and locked where nobody is likely to ever find it. The ammo is hidden elsewhere. So even though she came here, she didn't even THINK to look. If she DID get a gun and ammo, she may have shot me on accident or intentionally. She became psychotic and paranoid because of alzheimers.

    Steve
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  • On Friday, "Dark Knight Rises" director Christopher Nolan called the attack "unbearably savage," while the film's studio Warner Brothers said they were "deeply saddened to learn about this shocking incident. We extend our sincere sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims at this tragic time."

    Dark Knight Stars Christian Bale and Anne Hathaway have also expressed their sincere condolences and deepest sympathy...as they are connected to the film...

    OK, we all know it is very tragic - we all send condolences to the families and loved ones...but then there is this type of thing - do we then really need this list of ad nauseum?

    To hear what celebrities from Ryan Seacrest to Snooki had to say about the tragedy, CLICK HERE. Celebs, Hollywood Stars React to 'Dark Knight Rises' Shooting Tragedy | Gossip Cop
    Do we really need to know how 'Snooki' feels? Isn't it this the kind of twisted 'celebrity' that may have gotten us here in the first place? Am I to take solace in the fact that Ashley Tisdale or Brooklyn Decker feels sad? Or John Stamos was absolutely shocked to hear the news when he woke up today, or William Shatner sends his best...?
    There is a time when press agents just need to take the day off...this might be one of them.
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      There is a time when press agents just need to take the day off...this might be one of them.
      it's closer to home, do not just blame the press, a known guest blog site was featuring a article with the shooter being in a on line dating site and how to protect yourself when dating.

      Article name: On line Dating Safety Tips: James Holmes used Dating Sites


      now thats dragging the bottom of the barrel and who would post that crap ? but i suppose somebody fed with the sharks and posted the rubbish for glory ?
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      | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Let's not forget that just recently in Norway - a country with strict gun laws - there was a shooting spree there that killed more people than the United States' 3 largest shooting sprees combined. People that are bent on committing illegal acts are not going to be deterred by more legalities.

    Our problem is that we are trying to fix a problem that we haven't properly even diagnosed yet. We are treating the symptoms and expecting the root of the problem to magically go away.

    When someone drinks and then kills someone driving, we don't say "jeeez if we only had less cars on the road this probably wouldn't have happened." While that statement is probably true - everyone knows it's a foolish statement because it doesn't get at the root of the problem.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      Let's not forget that just recently in Norway - a country with strict gun laws - there was a shooting spree there that killed more people than the United States' 3 largest shooting sprees combined. People that are bent on committing illegal acts are not going to be deterred by more legalities.

      Our problem is that we are trying to fix a problem that we haven't properly even diagnosed yet. We are treating the symptoms and expecting the root of the problem to magically go away.

      When someone drinks and then kills someone driving, we don't say "jeeez if we only had less cars on the road this probably wouldn't have happened." While that statement is probably true - everyone knows it's a foolish statement because it doesn't get at the root of the problem.
      Let's normailize a lot of US variables. You can even compare this to the surrounding area that is in the same STATE! Look at: Kennesaw, Georgia!

      BTW:


      “The city of Kennesaw was selected by Family Circle magazine as one of the nation’s ‘10 best towns for families.’ The award was aimed at identifying the best communities nationally that combine big-city opportunities with suburban charm, a blend of affordable housing, good jobs, top-rated public schools, wide-open spaces, and less stress.”[1]

      Steve
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  • Wow - According to ABC news, he was going to school on a college scholarship grant which gave him a 26K /yr stipend - so very conceivably...he purchased all his tools of destruction with grant funds...
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Another interesting fact is that the witnesses at first reported that there was an accomplice. Only after the "official" word was released did it turn into a sole perp.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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    • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Ernie Lo View Post

        Exactly.

        Hey HeySal just wait until the Olympics. If all the indications are correct, it appears thats when there "big finale" will take place.

        Seems too obvious though, I'll believe it when I see it.
        Not heard that one yet. Does seem a little obvious. Still - look how many people can't figure out the continuum of elite yet. They'll get it over if that is what they want to do.
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        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Well, the CIA DID create that drug, I believe it was LSD, to do what Alex claims. So they have ADMITTED that they do such things. HECK, the movie "firestarter" is based on that! And they have said that Russia did this. And this DOES make sense. That guy that did this went in court DAZED with red hair, so they ARE going for the insanity defense. Besides, one has to ask. If they care SO much about background checks, etc... why don't they TRACK them? They could have seen all this, and asked the salespeople to find out what was up.

          As for murdochs tweet. I heard some interesting things about HIM. I can't say them here, because it would be political, but.... Well, just don't trust him. Of course, you should have a compass and if someone tries to get you to turn around, you should just ignore it.

          As for the TSA, they DO say that. The threat after the guy spoke about touching his groin is where the US has gone. If you talk, you may sue or tell others, and they will take you in another room wth others to avoid that. That is ALSO why they get someone that is the same sex as you. Alhough the idea of allowing homosexuals kind of undoes any reason there! SO FAR, with me, they haven't even touched my p...s, or really my s.....m, they just go up the legs.

          Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    The claim that banning guns will result in less gun crime is as ridiculous and intellectually lazy as claiming that introducing the death penalty will deter people from killing/murdering others.

    This tragedy is another 'gun free zone' fail, just like the Columbine and V-tech tragedies.

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author DotComBum
    That's a very sad incident, many innocent people got killed while enjoying a movie.
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  • Isn't it obvious? We need to get rid of Lil' Wayne...
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      Isn't it obvious? We need to get rid of Lil' Wayne...
      Why Lil' Wayne? :confused:

      I know who he is, but I don't know why you suggested getting rid of him.

      Terra
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      • Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Why Lil' Wayne? :confused:

        I know who he is, but I don't know why you suggested getting rid of him.

        Terra
        It is in reference to the "Batman/Illuminati" Video above...
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

          It is in reference to the "Batman/Illuminati" Video above...
          Ahh!

          Thanks, I hadn't watched it yet.

          Terra
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  • James Holmes' Mother Disputes ABC Report About Her Reaction To Colorado Killings [UPDATED] -
    Wants to clarify - Says statement was taken out of context -

    James Holmes' Mother Disputes ABC Report About Her Reaction To Colorado Killings [UPDATED]
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      James Holmes' Mother Disputes ABC Report About Her Reaction To Colorado Killings [UPDATED] -
      Wants to clarify - Says statement was taken out of context -

      James Holmes' Mother Disputes ABC Report About Her Reaction To Colorado Killings [UPDATED]
      For a mother to say so surely that they have the right person, referring to her sone, DOESN'T FIT! To answer that she is the right person, when they asked her the qualifying questions, FITS!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I hate that tag "illuminati". It doesn't matter what happens - as soon as the tag "illuminati" is used, people just stop thinking about it because they start seeing it as a whacked conspiracy theory.

    We need to start judging incidents on their own and if it looks like collaboration, go after the collaborators instead of coping out on "illuminati".

    This incident has numerous elements of a false flag. The timing is incredible, as is the medias endless drilling of the horror into people's minds.

    Because the first witnesses reporting that there was more than one person involved - that to me is indicative that is the truth. Everything said later is just spin. Media and Political. You want the real truth of matters - you get to witnesses before the authorities do and listen to what they say instead of the "official" release.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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    • Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I hate that tag "illuminati". It doesn't matter what happens - as soon as the tag "illuminati" is used, people just stop thinking about it because they start seeing it as a whacked conspiracy theory.

      We need to start judging incidents on their own and if it looks like collaboration, go after the collaborators instead of coping out on "illuminati".

      This incident has numerous elements of a false flag. The timing is incredible, as is the medias endless drilling of the horror into people's minds.

      Because the first witnesses reporting that there was more than one person involved - that to me is indicative that is the truth. Everything said later is just spin. Media and Political. You want the real truth of matters - you get to witnesses before the authorities do and listen to what they say instead of the "official" release.
      But some of the 'links' and connections in the above video could be no more corroborative than proving Paul McCartney is dead by looking at some albums...and suggest paranoia at best.

      Are there 12 skeletons in a movie audience? Yes, coincidentally - but this gunman did not set out to harm that number of people, the use of '12' can be as easily connected to the number of Apostles at the last supper...

      A witness described what looked to be Holmes 'answering' his phone - but how many of us have used a 'oh I have a phone call' ruse to excuse yourself from a room? The other decribed a teargas cannister coming from behind him to suggest an accomplice, (which would be curious) other than movie theaters have a sloping floor and in the confusion, he did not see it go over his head, and roll back...

      There are many things that can be speculated, but unfortunately that is all we have at this point - speculation. A fox 'expert' on psychoanalysis stated if he gave him a complete battery of tests he could 'determine' the cause of his psychosis...

      That would only be an educated study even if he had a cooperative subject, which at this point, he does not. He is not cooperative at all at this point.

      Unfortunately, we always want answers when these things happen. Even the 'experts' can only jump to conclusions without a clearer picture behind what causes this kind of heinous behavior, so we can take future safeguards if possible. (imo)
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    • Profile picture of the author Walter Parrish
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I hate that tag "illuminati". It doesn't matter what happens - as soon as the tag "illuminati" is used, people just stop thinking about it because they start seeing it as a whacked conspiracy theory.

      We need to start judging incidents on their own and if it looks like collaboration, go after the collaborators instead of coping out on "illuminati".

      This incident has numerous elements of a false flag. The timing is incredible, as is the medias endless drilling of the horror into people's minds.

      Because the first witnesses reporting that there was more than one person involved - that to me is indicative that is the truth. Everything said later is just spin. Media and Political. You want the real truth of matters - you get to witnesses before the authorities do and listen to what they say instead of the "official" release.
      I'm with you on this one. I get tired of hearing about Big Brother, Mind Control, Illumanti. As if we all aren't under some type of mind control. lol

      Sure a college kid created facebook all by himself.
      Sure we all have a problem with socialism, but spend our time on the SOCIALnetworks.
      Sure monopolies are history but Google thrives.

      We need to start looking at ourselves, our actions, our own communities rather than the big bad wolf. Like I tell most folks often The Boogie Man is in Our Heads.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The news is lying, Steve.

    MMM - I was talking about events as they play out. The first reports will be the most honest. Watch the change of what is reported as the timeline goes on. As far as "why" a shooter shoots - yeah, that takes more intensive understanding, but as far as WHAT actually transpired - the first reports before the official spin is released are more accurate. After that it's all PR.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      The news is lying, Steve.

      MMM - I was talking about events as they play out. The first reports will be the most honest. Watch the change of what is reported as the timeline goes on. As far as "why" a shooter shoots - yeah, that takes more intensive understanding, but as far as WHAT actually transpired - the first reports before the official spin is released are more accurate. After that it's all PR.
      Yeah!

      As for that video? Some stuff IS weird. WHO KNOWS? I saw a video recently that was REALLY interesting. At one point they showed a sequence and said it looked like something. It vaguely did. A piece was missing. a person was playing with some toys, to indicate some things. YEAH RIGHT. Possible! Down right LIKELY, BUT.... An odd thing happened to connect two odd events as if to say "WAKE UP, I am trying to tell you something". OK, so? Well, an object was claimed to be THE missing object. THAT is hard to dispute because of the expectation, position, the other stuff, and because its name was on it. Any 1,2, or possibly 3 items might be coincidence, but there were perhaps 12 in the span of like 3 minutes. Part of their evidence was a film showing these common photos and a CRAZY theory another had. THEY had a ridiculously simple and seemingly obvious reason for it.

      Should I believe the theory of the guy THEY showed, that has a theory that is ludicrous?

      Should I believe the government story that I always saw problems with?

      Should I believe their simple theory?

      Well, occams razor DOES have its merits!

      Most believe the government here. Interestingly, many claim it couldn't be done then. These people showed how it could be, and showed similar materials that were created at the same time, or even earlier, that were KNOWN to be created in the same way, that look the same.

      It really WOULD be nice if there weren't such a big business in lying. It really HAS gotten hard to tell.

      But these shootings just for the HECK of it, like strangers that were not likely considered a threat of any sort and where there was no hope of a reward, don't make any sense. Supposedly, this guy seemed pretty normal. Granted, that might be ANOTHER lie, and many hide things, BUT... And taking so many months? Buying so much?

      If I did it, it would take MAYBE 2 weeks(background checks and shipping), and I might get 4 guns. MAYBE 600-1000 rounds. Based on ONE guy and maybe 100 possible targets. That might cost 5K-10K(includes body armor). And why did he go to a theatre? He could have gone to some high site and killed hundreds before anyone knew.

      Still, WHY?

      The idea of brainwashing makes FAR more sense. In a way, the radical muslims are brainwashed. They view western society as a threat and believe that killing non believers gets them a great place in heaven. So they DO have a reason and reward.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author hydride
    This is sad indeed. Thanks for the post.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Maybe he is just a terrorist. Maybe he's a victim of mind control himself - just another false flag.

    The fact that gun sales spiked afterwards is a very good thing though. If he was a false flag, the perps got exactly the opposite reaction that they were hoping for. If he was a sole nut job or terrorist - there is a good showing that people are sick of being gunned down by criminals and are planning to be armed so the next time this kind of thing happens they will be able to stop the perp in his tracks. Just think how many lives would have been saved if someone in that theatre had a permit for concealed weapon and had their gun with them that day.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Maybe he is just a terrorist. Maybe he's a victim of mind control himself - just another false flag.

      The fact that gun sales spiked afterwards is a very good thing though. If he was a false flag, the perps got exactly the opposite reaction that they were hoping for. If he was a sole nut job or terrorist - there is a good showing that people are sick of being gunned down by criminals and are planning to be armed so the next time this kind of thing happens they will be able to stop the perp in his tracks. Just think how many lives would have been saved if someone in that theatre had a permit for concealed weapon and had their gun with them that day.
      NO, the increased sales makes sense. I bought MY gun at a time sales SKYROCKETED! WHY? I mean WHY did I buy? WHY did sales skyrocket? They were about to make a new class of guns ILLEGAL! Not wanting to get back into metal work, etc... and not currently knowng such people, I simply wanted to buy a premade gun.

      And they described his hair, and said he had a gas mask, so it is clear a good shot to the head was possible. ONE shot would have stopped him.

      Did you see the surprising chase a few days ago? The police were SCARED to chase him, because it would have been dangerous. People were trying to figure that he could go 75 miles or more without gas, etc... and nobody knew what was going to happen. Well, the police were slowing down all the traffic, except for that jerk. A police officer parked his bike right in front of the blockade, and the guy on the bike, and he figured he had no choice. He GAVE UP! NO PROPERTY or skin was hurt.

      Sometimes preparation is everything. ONE GUY, that was decent, could have stopped the gunner. TWO in two spots, could have scared him. If he knew many could have been, he may not have tried.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    OK, stick figures a week earlier doesn't fit. And he thought MUSIC would distract? MAYBE if a resdent entered, was killed, and another could report it. MAYBE!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    For those of you wondering about the effectiveness of conceal and carry.... I've happened upon this in of all places The Huffington Post - and again of all places - in Aurora Colorado. This article is from April 24 earlier this year

    Suspect In Aurora, Colo. Church Shooting Identified, Had Been In Prison

    Man goes into a Church and kills one woman, before an off duty officer w/ a concealed weapon kills him. - I'll bet the media never brings up this story.
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    • Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      For those of you wondering about the effectiveness of conceal and carry.... I've happened upon this in of all places The Huffington Post - and again of all places - in Aurora Colorado. This article is from April 24 earlier this year

      Suspect In Aurora, Colo. Church Shooting Identified, Had Been In Prison

      Man goes into a Church and kills one woman, before an off duty officer w/ a concealed weapon kills him. - I'll bet the media never brings up this story.
      I understand your point, but an off duty police officer is normally required to carry his weapon - it was fortunate he was there and could intervene, but not an entirely solid argument to allow everyone to carry a concealed weapon without restraint or qualification. (imo)

      Am I against responsible people being able to own and carry concealed weapons? No - but it is a double-edged sword...we need to protect ourselves from harm, but if people continue back to a wild-west philosophy of settling every problem with a gun, what then?

      The idiot who was stupid enough to call 911 because he didn't get cheese on his burger, now just shoots the drive-thru guy? (Silly example...but you know where this is going...)

      In the case of the theater incident, the shooter was fully prepared and well protected for return fire, it's as if he wanted or expected to be shot at.

      The 2nd amendment argument in incessant, and the founding fathers had foresight, but does anyone really think they could envision the type of weapons easily available now, in an era of muskets, and 3 shots a minute, and before established police forces were in place? Unfortunately, I don't think they had that much forward vision. They may not have been as unrestrictive if they had.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

        I understand your point, but an off duty police officer is normally required to carry his weapon - it was fortunate he was there and could intervene, but not an entirely solid argument to allow everyone to carry a concealed weapon without restraint or qualification. (imo)
        Concealed carry IS restrained, and often DOES have qualifications. It IS harder to get than just getting a gun. Yeah, that last post was a good argument for several things, but we aren't to get political.

        Am I against responsible people being able to own and carry concealed weapons? No - but it is a double-edged sword...we need to protect ourselves from harm, but if people continue back to a wild-west philosophy of settling every problem with a gun, what then?
        Even the wild west wasn't really the wild west. I mean they had rules and punishment and most were decent. As for the bad guys? Well, they obviously STILL exist!

        The idiot who was stupid enough to call 911 because he didn't get cheese on his burger, now just shoots the drive-thru guy? (Silly example...but you know where this is going...)
        It IS hard to say. Some people are TOLD to call 911. And some operators are idiots. When I was younger, I had to call someone via an operator for some reason, and she was SLOW! I told her it was an emergency and the next thing I know, I was connected to the fire department. Since that point, I NEVER use the word emergency with an operator on the line.

        In the case of the theater incident, the shooter was fully prepared and well protected for return fire, it's as if he wanted or expected to be shot at.
        Of course! Even programmed, they wanted mayhem. But criminals ARE getting smarter in this regard.

        The 2nd amendment argument in incessant, and the founding fathers had foresight, but does anyone really think they could envision the type of weapons easily available now, in an era of muskets, and 3 shots a minute, and before established police forces were in place? Unfortunately, I don't think they had that much forward vision. They may not have been as unrestrictive if they had.
        Don't you realize that this is an argument FOR guns? The military ALWAYS has better guns, etc.... And someone has to keep THEM at bay if they get out of hand. Well, in the "wild west" they had guns that could shoot over 3 rounds a minute. Many today could allow an amatuer to shoot maybe 15+ a minute, though guns with over 17 rounds aren't that common. This shows you how relatively safe the "wild west" was. Small towns had a SMALL "police department" known as the sheriff. If things DID suddenly get bad, volunteers would help out. But they were small, etc... HEY, want a REAL example?

        This little town(actually today I believe it is the second largest in the state), got a police force, of THREE people, in late 1863 after the population reached about 12,000. In 1869, it was EIGHT people. TODAY, it is 460 people for a population of a quarter million. And this state is one in the reciprocal concealed weapons Carry program. Did you know that about 35 of the states are in the program!

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post


        Am I against responsible people being able to own and carry concealed weapons? No - but it is a double-edged sword...we need to protect ourselves from harm, but if people continue back to a wild-west philosophy of settling every problem with a gun, what then?
        As Steve pointed out, the Wild West was not as wild as people are lead to believe. Even at the most talked about shootout in Wild West history - The gun fight at the OK Corral - only 3 people were killed. Many more people are killed now than back then.

        If more people practiced their right to carry a weapon, I'm willing to bet that there'd be a greater effort to resolve conflicts amicably. That's just a guess though

        Also - there were several military men in that Theater. Had the theater allowed concealed weapons the killings may have been lower. Even though he had on full body armor, the armor itself does not lessen the impact speed of a discharged fire-arm. It would still feel like a punch to the chest or head with the right hand-gun.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          but does anyone really think they could envision the type of weapons easily available now, in an era of muskets, and 3 shots a minute, and before established police forces were in place?
          No, of course they couldn't envision those changes.

          Nor could they envision the population growth, the entitlement and "me" attitude of a permissive society.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            No, of course they couldn't envision those changes.

            Nor could they envision the population growth, the entitlement and "me" attitude of a permissive society.
            I guess they actually COULD! "and the ROCKETS RED GLARE! The BOMBS BURSTING IN AIR!" . MY GOD, they fought a war against the biggest power of the time! So they could the imagine powerful weapons? HECK YEAH!!!! You can BET tat they knew that someone would come up with a self contained load. They ALL knew that they were effectively constructing such a thing. And some may even have fantasied about the idea of a rotary chamber and hammer. I believe it was Thomas jefferson that made similar such devices. Alas, without a way to actually package that load, and provide an ignition source, it was just a dream.

            SOME might EVEN have thought of using the kickback to power such a mechanism. THAT is how most semiautomatics, and automatics, work TODAY. It wasn't much of a stretch. A lot of them did such things WELL, and were known for it. Heck, Popular mechanics showed an old waterpump working on that kind of principle.

            Population growth? Well, they had thousands of years of history to see and knew it could be exponential! So YEAH, they could see that.

            "entitlement and "me" attitude"? Well, they viewed the MONARCHY as that! They had kids! Etc...want MORE proof though? Several people of the time are quoted as saying that the society can die when they realize they can vote themselves benefits.

            YEAH, they knew. They tried to be fair and allow for the future while limiting the effects of such things. ALAS, they weren't perfect.

            Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
          By the way, was it not a percentage of ORDINARY, armed citizens that repelled the British Soldiers in The Revolutionary War that is talked about and is required teaching , taught to kids in school with such pride and reverence, used in political speeches and such, you know, "the principles of what this country was founded on" and all that jazz?

          Or is it taught and spoken of just show and it really does not mean anything?

          Would not be surprised in the least.

          Not that I'm a gun nut or against guns, just the fact of being lied to, manipulated and social engineered by elitist and political whores who deem the public don't know what's good for them and they do just burns my ***, and what's worse, the people the swallow that filth and defend it like some empty air heads that live in a bubble, isolated from any possible harm of reality.

          If you have belief, that one or some of these elitist and whores won't ever let it get THAT bad, that SOMEONE is going to right things so we can ALL live in ice cream dreams, clouds in the sky made of colored balloons, every blade of grass made of sugar, air that blows fresh cotton candy and a sweet lollipop with every step you take, boy, you're going to be late for the fitting of a straight-jacket.

          This ain't no damn movie or t.v. show.


          The 13th Warrior
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      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
        Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

        The 2nd amendment argument in incessant, and the founding fathers had foresight, but does anyone really think they could envision the type of weapons easily available now, in an era of muskets, and 3 shots a minute, and before established police forces were in place? Unfortunately, I don't think they had that much forward vision. They may not have been as unrestrictive if they had.
        You really ought to read up on your history...the Second Amendment wasn't there because there was a shortage of 'established police forces'. If you care to read it, here is "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms", a report by the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the United States Senate, 97th Congress: The Right to Keep and Bear Arms

        A tiny snippet from that report (which is, like most congressional reports, a little long-winded):
        Together with freedom of the press, the right to keep and bear arms became one of the individual rights most prized by the colonists. When British troops seized a militia arsenal in September, 1774, and incorrect rumors that colonists had been killed spread through Massachusetts, 60,000 citizens took up arms. 30 A few months later, when Patrick Henry delivered his famed "Give me liberty or give me death" speech, he spoke in support of a proposition "that a well regulated militia, composed of gentlemen and freemen, is the natural strength and only security of a free government...." Throughout the following revolution, formal and informal units of armed citizens obstructed British communication, cut off foraging parties, and harassed the thinly stretched regular forces. When seven states adopted state "bills of rights" following the Declaration of Independence, each of those bills of rights provided either for protection of the concept of a militia or for an express right to keep and bear arms. 31
        So, if you read the report, you now have a little of the background of the 2nd amendment and its authors. Do you think that, if they were to have had the ability to see into the future that is today, that they would not have been as 'unrestrictive'?
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        • Florida man kills door-to-door salesman: "I'll kill anybody that steps on my property"
          http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/2...QtV334E.reddit
          A co-worker who witnessed the shooting said Rainey had knocked on Roop's door, but received no answer. While Rainey was walking down the drive-way, Roop pulled up in his pickup truck and asked why Rainey was at his house. Rainey explained that he was selling steak and seafood. The witness said Roop then pulled out a black handgun and shot Rainey. As Rainey lay on the ground, Roop fired another bullet into the back of his head.

          Roop later told police that he shot Rainey in the head "for effect" and that he had three no trespassing signs on his property. Roop said he feared for his life.

          "I'm not going to give him the chance to do something to me," he told police. "I was in fear."

          Roop's neighbors described him as "the neighborhood crazy." Roop has a concealed weapons permit and approximately 14 firearms.

          Off-duty Collier sheriff sergeant stops gunman after shooting - WFTX-TV Fort Myers/Naples, FL

          Judge denies bond to Cape man charged in fatal shooting - cape-coral-daily-breeze.com | News, sports, community info. - Cape Coral Daily Breeze
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          • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
            Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

            Florida man kills door-to-door salesman: "I'll kill anybody that steps on my property"
            http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/07/26/florida-man-kills-door-to-door-salesman-i'll-kill-anybody-that-steps-on-my-property/#.UBIHQtV334E.reddit
            A co-worker who witnessed the shooting said Rainey had knocked on Roop's door, but received no answer. While Rainey was walking down the drive-way, Roop pulled up in his pickup truck and asked why Rainey was at his house. Rainey explained that he was selling steak and seafood. The witness said Roop then pulled out a black handgun and shot Rainey. As Rainey lay on the ground, Roop fired another bullet into the back of his head.

            Roop later told police that he shot Rainey in the head "for effect" and that he had three no trespassing signs on his property. Roop said he feared for his life.

            "I'm not going to give him the chance to do something to me," he told police. "I was in fear."

            Roop's neighbors described him as "the neighborhood crazy." Roop has a concealed weapons permit and approximately 14 firearms.

            Judge denies bond to Cape man charged in fatal shooting - cape-coral-daily-breeze.com | News, sports, community info. - Cape Coral Daily Breeze
            I heard on the news this morning that another 200 people have been killed by gunshot since the Aurora incident.

            More Americans were fatally shot this year (6,558*) than the combined totals of Americans killed by their enemies in the Afghanistan/Iraq wars combined since their inception (6,547).

            That is not a comment or a criticism, just a statement of fact. Both sides of the argument can make of it what they will.


            * That figure pales in comparison with the following causes of death:

            Tobacco - 199,715
            Alcohol - 57,061
            Suicide - 21,060
            Drunk driving - 19,291
            Once again, make of all these figures what you will.
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            • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
              Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

              More Americans were fatally shot this year (6,558*) ...
              There is one thing encouraging about that list. It shows no one has died so far this year as a result of spontaneous combustion - which means that alien activity is light.

              On the other hand, it also shows that over 300% more people have died as a consequence of drunk driving than of gunshot.

              Maybe some people are concentrating on the wrong thing???

              10X as many - 60,000+ - have died 'accidental deaths', which may, or should, put the gunshot amount in perspective.

              I wonder what percentage of accidental deaths are the result of Darwinism?
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              • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
                Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

                There is one thing encouraging about that list. It shows no one has died so far this year as a result of spontaneous combustion - which means that alien activity is light.
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          • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
            Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

            Florida man kills door-to-door salesman:
            The point of that post was what, exactly? You're thinking - hoping, maybe? - that someone is going to defend it as justified?

            Hardly. Hope the guy gets the chair, actually.
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            The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

            Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

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  • I appreciate the points and the discourse fellas, but I think I may have been taken a bit out of context. When I referred to a "wild-west philosophy", perhaps I should have added the word 'movie', because that is what I was referring to - I am fully aware the actual wild west was not anywhere near as it is often depicted on the silver screen...I have always been very interested in the history of the west, and read all I can on this period.

    I refer to the American idea of the protagonist who settles his scores with a bullet - the "High Noon" where it is the White hat against the Black hat of the world, and he has had enough. "A man's got to do what a man's got to do". It has been honed for over a century, and it still lives in the American Bravado, whether some like to admit it or not. The cowboy has now become modern gangster, but the same ideas still apply...where kids once may have had posters of a Western Hero, now posters of Al Pacino as 'Scarface' hang on the wall, or something similar. The anti-hero is now the hero.

    As I said before, the debate is a 2 edged sword, and it is not an easy one. Maybe we should try to evaluate how the Swiss have managed to keep things under control with their relatively small population, but large gun ownership - they seem to have a system that works for them.

    Or...maybe we just need to eat more chocolate, and chill out. (yipikiyo)
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    The type of weapon is irrelevent. It wouldn't matter if we were allowed to carry consealed weapons, or bazookas.

    You are either the type of person who kills people, or you are not. There is no grey area. its black or white, on or off, in or out...however you want to phrase it.

    They banned guns on airplanes, but it didn't stop hyjackings from happening did it....where there is a will there is a way...boxcutter knives proves pretty effective no?.

    Your either the type of guy thats going to hijack a plane or you are not.

    It is illegal to walk up to people and punch them in the head for fun...but it hasn't stopped it from existing. Every one of us has fists...are people all over the street every day punching other in the head for fun? ...no, because only certain people are the type that would punch people in the head for fun, and most of us aren't.

    Even if they somehow WERE able to keep guns from the criminals....they'd just rob your house with baseball bats.

    Why do bullies only pick on those smaller or wealer than them? ...because they can't or wont fight back...AND... they think they can get away with it.

    Of all crime that is committed...nearly all of it is done by people who think they can get away with it. The rest of it is done by the mental wackos...and your never going to do anything to deter them. But you CAN EFFECT the deterance of the rest of crime by dramatically increasing the probability that the purp will be caught, stopped or injured/killed.

    The answer to our collective safety is MORE PEOPLE NEED TO CARRY GUNS AND HAVE THEM IN THEIR HOME...and the more baddass the gun is...the better.

    It wont matter if more bad guys will then have guns, thats an idiotic argument...because the GOOD GUYS with guns will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS outnumber the bad guys...and the more they feel outnumbered with guns the LESS likely they will use their own gun for a crime against another person...and thus less likely to even committ that crime anyway.

    I'm not talking about Columbines or Theatre incidents...those are wacko jobs...nuthin we can do to keep those from happening...we can only lessen the damage by being armed at the scene...I'm talking about all the other weapon related crime against citizens..we CAN make a serious dent in getting that stuff to go away.
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  • I wish it were that easy - it's not always black and white, as people snap everyday for one reason or another...

    What is the first thing the 'neighbor' has to say in many of these instances? "Gosh, he was such a quiet guy...this really comes as a surprise".

    Unfortunately, it's not as easy as the movie "Minority Report" where "PreCrime" is a specialized police department that apprehends criminals based on foreknowledge... if only it could be that simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      I wish it were that easy - it's not always black and white, as people snap everyday for one reason or another...

      What is the first thing the 'neighbor' has to say in many of these instances? "Gosh, he was such a quiet guy...this really comes as a surprise".

      Unfortunately, it's not as easy as the movie "Minority Report" where "PreCrime" is a specialized police department that apprehends criminals based on foreknowledge... if only it could be that simple.
      I disagree. If you know beforehand that your "snap" could have dire consequences...you'll have much better personal control.

      As much as you would like to grab your kid by the back of the neck and squeez the bejesus out of her right there in the grocery store cuz she's being a massive terd butt pulling things off the shelf...there is a reason you don't.. ya you get your kid taken away among other things.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      I wish it were that easy - it's not always black and white, as people snap everyday for one reason or another...

      What is the first thing the 'neighbor' has to say in many of these instances? "Gosh, he was such a quiet guy...this really comes as a surprise".

      Unfortunately, it's not as easy as the movie "Minority Report" where "PreCrime" is a specialized police department that apprehends criminals based on foreknowledge... if only it could be that simple.
      Did you actually SEE minority report? There was a woman that apparently was *********VERY********* accurate! There were two others(that I think they even said were twins) that were FAR less so. They wanted the public to think they were PERFECT, but they WEREN'T! They wanted to use this, but didn't want TOO many false hits. Because of that, they decided that they needed to have at least 2 reports.

      Well, on one murder, the highly gifted person SAW the murder, and it was reported! It was THROWN OUT because she was the ONLY one to see it. The MINORITY report. It was thrown out. LATER, the other two saw the aftermath. The WRONG person was convicted.

      One guy ended up investigating it, and was framed, and that is where the film takes off.

      In the end, the person that created the system(IIRC) was found to be the REAL killer.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
        Interesting, 2nd guessing The Constitution and its founders.

        The very heart of what we tell EVERYONE on planet Earth and the Solar System that made and makes America great and beacon of opportunity and pioneer of the future of freedom.

        Guess its expired....., past it's time..., did not check the fine print for an expiration date.

        And what do we have in its place, The Patriot Act?!?

        Or better yet, The National Defense Authorization Act???

        And for dessert, along with your meal, The National Defense Resources Preparedness Executive Order, essentially Martial Law????

        Here are some of the ingredients to your entree:

        • The Secretary of Defense has power over all water resources;
        • The Secretary of Commerce has power over all material services and facilities, including construction materials;
        • The Secretary of Transportation has power over all forms of civilian transportation;
        • The Secretary of Agriculture has power over food resources and facilities, livestock plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment;
        • The Secretary of Health and Human Services has power over all health resources;
        • The Secretary of Energy has power over all forms of energy.


        Were the British this bad? ...Hmmmmmm...,

        Let me get this right, this is how Hitler started and others, right?

        We can still grab a beer and watch football, so freedom isn't threatened, right? This does not mean anything, right?

        Instead of focusing on this, we focus on Bieber, Kardashians, playoffs and police escorts to movies.


        So which of these fine intellects on this forum or in government do you TRUST with you and your families life has a superior version and way than The Bill of Rights and The Constitution?

        Obviously, they make up for the intellect that the originators of that document "sorely" lacked, now don't they?




        "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

        — BENJAMIN FRANKLIN




        Hey, "I" did'nt say it, the Frankster said it.



        The 13th Warrior
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  • I didn't say the Second Amendment was there because there was a shortage of 'established police forces'...The second amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791 - Prior to established police forces...

    In 1626, the New York City Sheriff's Office was founded. In 1635, the Town of Boston started its first "Night Watch". The first local modern police department established in the United States was the Boston Police Department in 1838.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      I didn't say the Second Amendment was there because there was a shortage of 'established police forces'...The second amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791 - Prior to established police forces...

      In 1626, the New York City Sheriff's Office was founded. In 1635, the Town of Boston started its first "Night Watch". The first local modern police department established in the United States was the Boston Police Department in 1838.
      Okay, so semantics, I guess...? I'll try it another way:

      If there had been established police departments at the time of the adoption of the 2nd Amendment, you think that they would have restricted to any degree the private ownership of arms?
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

        Okay, so semantics, I guess...? I'll try it another way:

        If there had been established police departments at the time of the adoption of the 2nd Amendment, you think that they would have restricted to any degree the private ownership of arms?
        Considering the forefathers made the provision specifically to arm citizens against a tyrannical take-over of our gov, I believe that if they had been able to see where we are today, they would have put more safety checks in the documents against the gov being able to get this large and strong in the first place. They most certainly would not have diluted our right to own firearms. They might have diluted the Govs right to have them though.
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        Sal
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Considering the forefathers made the provision specifically to arm citizens against a tyrannical take-over of our gov, I believe that if they had been able to see where we are today, they would have put more safety checks in the documents against the gov being able to get this large and strong in the first place. They most certainly would not have diluted our right to own firearms. They might have diluted the Govs right to have them though.
          You have to love our forefathers, as they were all about the government serving, protecting, looking out for and empowering the people! Not the opposite that we find in government today.

          Do you remember that old commercial where a Native American chief is looking at the littered state of America, with a tear sliding down his face? That's how I picture our forefathers.

          Some artist needs to render another Mount Rushmore, but depicting those presidents as sad with tears falling down their faces as they see that the gov has become the very thing they revolted against and fled from in the first place.

          I know, I know, it'll never happen. :rolleyes:

          Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    Again, maybe I'm being argumentative, but I don't see a problem with the way the Second Amendment is worded. I think it's pretty plain: "...shall not be infringed."

    It places no conditions on the statement, like, "...shall not be infringed unless this or that...."

    The people who argue ambiguity in the wording seem to be those who think the Constitution should be a "living document", in other words, it doesn't really mean what it says.

    We have strayed a long way away from a federal government whose power was limited by law:

    "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite." James Madison
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    oh grief I am not even reading this but I'll guess sthe usual "I know it all my opinions are facts." crowd are out in force on this one. Telling everyone how it is.

    Go on...it was really a governemt conspiracy..... R.O.F.L.

    you know the ones....4 of them. (^^one here ^^)
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      oh grief I am not even reading this but I'll guess sthe usual "I know it all my opinions are facts." crowd are out in force on this one. Telling everyone how it is.

      Go on...it was really a governemt conspiracy..... R.O.F.L.

      you know the ones....4 of them. (^^one here ^^)
      You're one. Frankly, if YOU speak against me, I like it. Sometimes I take it as a compliment. So.... THANKS!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      NO WAY STEVE...you....argumentative....not a chance! Why would you even think such a thing?
      You may not agree with people, they may not agree with you - that doesn't give you cause to act like a 10-year old. Take a vacation, let the adults talk.
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      The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

      Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

        You may not agree with people, they may not agree with you - that doesn't give you cause to act like a 10-year old. Take a vacation, let the adults talk.

        I think he needs to take a look at my 1,000th post. :rolleyes:

        PS
        I'm out of thanks, but if I had any left, you'd get one.

        Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

        You may not agree with people, they may not agree with you - that doesn't give you cause to act like a 10-year old. Take a vacation, let the adults talk.
        I second that motion. Time to stop letting trolls get threads shut down.
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        Sal
        When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
        Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author sloanjim
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
      Originally Posted by sloanjim View Post

      Yep the 3 Amigos are out in force spreading their "opinionated facts" on this one. Geez. Get a life.
      What hole did you crawl out of?
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      The 2nd Amendment, 1789 - The Original Homeland Security.

      Gun control means never having to say, "I missed you."

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Recently ANOTHER person, I believe it was in florida, said HE was the joker, and killed people with a gun. To me, this looks SUSPICIOUS!!!!!!! It looks more like a groups plan than random acts. A cursory look for THAT story led immediately to one that looks DIFFERENT, but VERY similar!

    'Joker' sent to mental hospital, had threatened shooting rampage - latimes.com

    Please note that this was reported TODAY, and happened in maryland! That is FAR from colorado!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    "Americans fataly shot" means NOTHING! How many were shot by some stupid "game" that may have been killed another way? How many were shot because they were stealing or trespassing or threatening?

    Unless they were innocents killed intentionally, it really isn't meaningful. Of course MOST doing that are FELONS and it is illegal for a felon to even OWN or hold a gun! Crimina;s generally DON'T obey the law.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    Damn,I missed all the excitement,do I need to get in on this?
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