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ANOTHER ILLEGAL RAID!

by seasoned
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Courthouse News Service

They killed a dog, handcuffed people, and even caused a person to nearly die because she was not allowed to take her medicine, and was diabetic.


Steve
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Oh yeah - things are heating up. In Oregon they just arrested a man and sentenced him to a month in jail for "collecting rain water" on his OWN property:

    Oregon criminalizes permaculture; claims state ownership over all rainwater - ponds and swales restricted - jail time for violators

    It makes me sick to my stomach to know that there are still Americans who think that we live in a free country.
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Courthouse News Service

      They killed a dog, handcuffed people, and even caused a person to nearly die because she was not allowed to take her medicine, and was diabetic.
      WTF!

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Oh yeah - things are heating up. In Oregon they just arrested a man and sentenced him to a month in jail for "collecting rain water" on his OWN property:

      Oregon criminalizes permaculture; claims state ownership over all rainwater - ponds and swales restricted - jail time for violators

      It makes me sick to my stomach to know that there are still Americans who think that we live in a free country.
      And even bigger WTF!
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

        WTF!



        And even bigger WTF!
        Thomas we arrest people here for selling raw milk, yet it's perfectly legal to sell milk with rBGH in it go figure.
        This is just one example of many.
        L.A. County arrests 3 over raw milk - Los Angeles Times
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Oh yeah - things are heating up. In Oregon they just arrested a man and sentenced him to a month in jail for "collecting rain water" on his OWN property:
      In Bolivia something similar happened after the city of Cochabamba's water supply was sold off to a joint venture between Bechtel (of which I could say a lot more, but that goes into topics which are forbidden here), and Suez Lyonaisse.

      The privatisation was at the behest of The World Bank (once again, much more could be said...) which threatened to cancel a loan to Bolivia unless the privatisation took place.

      The Cochabambans took to the streets and eventually the privatisation was reversed.

      Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Cochabamba_protests

      I know that's slightly different to what your point was, but do you really believe this is a "government control" issue, or a "government acting on behalf of its corporate masters" issue?.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Oh yeah - things are heating up. In Oregon they just arrested a man and sentenced him to a month in jail for "collecting rain water" on his OWN property:

      Oregon criminalizes permaculture; claims state ownership over all rainwater - ponds and swales restricted - jail time for violators

      It makes me sick to my stomach to know that there are still Americans who think that we live in a free country.
      While I feel the punishment is too servere for the crime, it's a law that's in place almost everywhere in the USA.

      And it's a law that makes sense. What about the "freedom" of the animals, eco-systems and other people that live down stream in that water shed? What are their rights to that water?

      The more we let water flow naturally, the better IMO.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        While I feel the punishment is too servere for the crime, it's a law that's in place almost everywhere in the USA.

        And it's a law that makes sense. What about the "freedom" of the animals, eco-systems and other people that live down stream in that water shed? What are their rights to that water?

        The more we let water flow naturally, the better IMO.
        This is way different then the water rights we have and in fact is in conflict with them.
        Under our water rights that came about through property rights and common law he has the right to collect the rain water unless it could be proven he was restricting the rights of others to the water, which seeing how this happened with ponds on his property and not flowing water he is not. Water in his ponds can still 'drain' into the ground water and it can still evaporate and fall somewhere else as rain. So he is not restricting the water but is using it under what would be considered 'fair use'.
        If you read the article you would of seen that it says the state of Oregon claims they own rain water. Read that again. The state of Oregon says they own rain water. So what's next? Taxing you to use it? Taxing you for getting wet in a rain storm?
        There is nothing about a state claiming ownership to rain that makes sense.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          This is way different then the water rights we have and in fact is in conflict with them.
          Under our water rights that came about through property rights and common law he has the right to collect the rain water unless it could be proven he was restricting the rights of others to the water, which seeing how this happened with ponds on his property and not flowing water he is not. Water in his ponds can still 'drain' into the ground water and it can still evaporate and fall somewhere else as rain. So he is not restricting the water but is using it under what would be considered 'fair use'.
          If you read the article you would of seen that it says the state of Oregon claims they own rain water. Read that again. The state of Oregon says they own rain water. So what's next? Taxing you to use it? Taxing you for getting wet in a rain storm?
          There is nothing about a state claiming ownership to rain that makes sense.
          Things are different out West, where water is a resource that is getting more and more scarce.

          I've done quite a bit of research on this topic...I think you'd be surprised how common this type of law is:
          https://www.google.com/#hl=en&output...w=1024&bih=399



          PS...I don't buy slippery slope arguments. What's next? You're allowed to deny people their water rights and rich people can build damns and lakes and sell the water to poor people at high prices?
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            Things are different out West, where water is a resource that is getting more and more scarce.

            I've done quite a bit of research on this topic...I think you'd be surprised how common this type of law is:
            https://www.google.com/#hl=en&output...w=1024&bih=399



            PS...I don't buy slippery slope arguments. What's next? You're allowed to deny people their water rights and rich people can build damns and lakes and sell the water to poor people at high prices?
            Seems like Oregon is doing that.
            Just because the government makes it illegal to 'use' the water on your land doesn't make it right. ALso if you read the article you'll notice that in Oregon it is legal to collect rain water that falls on your roof or other artifical surface.
            The state of Oregon openly admits, on its website, that you don't own the rain water that falls on your land! As stated on Oregon.gov:

            Under Oregon law, all water is publicly owned. With some exceptions, cities, farmers, factory owners, and other water users must obtain a permit or water right from the Water Resources Department to use water from ANY source... (Water Resources Department Oregon Water Laws)

            That page describes an exception to allow rainwater collection from rooftops, but not from a yard or natural landscape: "Exempt uses of surface water include ...collection and use of rainwater from an artificial impervious surface (like a parking lot or a building's roof)..."

            So, in other words, if Harrington had paved his fields with asphalt, then collected the rainwater would have been legal in Oregon! But because his fields were natural grasses, shrubs and trees, the rainwater collection was deemed illegal.
            Also in the article it says he was granted a permit to build the ponds but the state revoked it years later. That's a kin to having a state grant you a building permit then revoking it years after the building is built and requiring you to take it down.
            You're P.S. is covered already with the current water rights that are again based on property rights and common law.
            Water right - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
            No slippery slope at all that I can see, and actually the government laying claim to rain water that falls on your property IS denying people their water rights.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        While I feel the punishment is too servere for the crime, it's a law that's in place almost everywhere in the USA.

        And it's a law that makes sense. What about the "freedom" of the animals, eco-systems and other people that live down stream in that water shed? What are their rights to that water?

        The more we let water flow naturally, the better IMO.
        So you don't have hot water, or flowing water in your home? No water reservoir in your town? WOW, the restaurants must have some problems. And I guess it is against the law for beavers t exist. The average american home, by its own EXISTENCE, probably holds over 60 gallons of water. 30+ for the hot water heater, and maybe another 30 for everything else. I have NO idea how much one of those water towers holds, but you can see them for MILES!

        HECK, even most of the low flow toilets hold over 2.5gallons each. I guess it is a good thing that any exposed water evaporates and that it is a waterplanet with about 70+% of its surface covered in water, huh?

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          So you don't have hot water, or flowing water in your home? No water reservoir in your town? WOW, the restaurants must have some problems. And I guess it is against the law for beavers t exist. The average american home, by its own EXISTENCE, probably holds over 60 gallons of water. 30+ for the hot water heater, and maybe another 30 for everything else. I have NO idea how much one of those water towers holds, but you can see them for MILES!

          HECK, even most of the low flow toilets hold over 2.5gallons each. I guess it is a good thing that any exposed water evaporates and that it is a waterplanet with about 70+% of its surface covered in water, huh?

          Steve
          This is so dumb it doesn't even deserve a response. But I'll respond anyway...

          The Colorado River's headwaters are about 2-3 miles from where I live. Should we damn up the Colorado and hold Utah, Arizona, Nevada and Souther California hostage? Or should we follow the law and respect agreed upon water rights?

          And in most places, it IS against the law to damn up creeks and rivers, denying people down stream access to the water also.

          The point seasoned is missing it that there are water usage contracts that have been agreed upon long ago. Acording to steve-o "logic", Colorado should simply damn up the Colorado river and not have to worry about our severe drought on the other side of the Continental Divide.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

            This is so dumb it doesn't even deserve a response. But I'll respond anyway...

            The Colorado River's headwaters are about 2-3 miles from where I live. Should we damn up the Colorado and hold Utah, Arizona, Nevada and Souther California hostage? Or should we follow the law and respect agreed upon water rights?

            And in most places, it IS against the law to damn up creeks and rivers, denying people down stream access to the water also.

            The point seasoned is missing it that there are water usage contracts that have been agreed upon long ago. Acording to steve-o "logic", Colorado should simply damn up the Colorado river and not have to worry about our severe drought on the other side of the Continental Divide.
            That wasn't my point AT ALL! My point is that I was talking about water that fell on the persons land. Water that would probably otherwise use a lot of energy and be sent around in circles. And homes DO store a LOT of water. Much of it is effectively NEVER used. If, in a large traditional home, you turn on the hot water, it could take quite a while for it to get hot. WHY? Because all the OTHER water is water that was ONCE hot, but waited so long in the pipes that it could be nearly ice cold. AND, when you turn the water off, the last several gallons that came from the water heater stay in the pipes to, again, cool down.

            so if you have a large water heater, or even any at all, should you be fined, or arrested, for hoarding water? Should the city be fined for that?

            And what DO they do with those beavers?

            Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Oh yeah - things are heating up. In Oregon they just arrested a man and sentenced him to a month in jail for "collecting rain water" on his OWN property:
      Can't believe what I'm reading. Collecting "natural resources" (even on your own land) is illegal? Nobody owns rain water.

      By the same token it must also be illegal to collect the Sun's rays with solar panels? Also, what about wind power? Is it illegal to use wind turbines too? Maybe soon you'll have to pay for the air you breathe?

      In a "free, democratic country", why do you let the law makers introduce such crap?
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

        Can't believe what I'm reading. Collecting "natural resources" (even on your own land) is illegal? Nobody owns rain water.

        By the same token it must also be illegal to collect the Sun's rays with solar panels? Also, what about wind power? Is it illegal to use wind turbines too? Maybe soon you'll have to pay for the air you breathe?

        In a "free, democratic country", why do you let the law makers introduce such crap?
        When ever I had spoken about solar, it was PHOTO VOLTAIC! There IS ANOTHER type of "solar panel" that became VERY popular! I forget the name, but THEY work by heating STORED WATER!!!!!! SO, OF COURSE, according to the rules kurt talks about, you could be ARRESTED for heating something you likely even PAID FOR! I ALMOST bought a place where I would be pumping my own water. Am I not allowed to use THAT? HERE, I could modify my sump pump and get MANY free gallons. Is THAT illegal?

        Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Davis
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Oh yeah - things are heating up. In Oregon they just arrested a man and sentenced him to a month in jail for "collecting rain water" on his OWN property:

      Oregon criminalizes permaculture; claims state ownership over all rainwater - ponds and swales restricted - jail time for violators[/url]

      It makes me sick to my stomach to know that there are still Americans who think that we live in a free country.
      That is some scary stuff. Water is a vital life sustaining substance for everyone and should be freely available for all...
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Here's another one for you Thomas.
        This isn't an isolated case either.
        Woman Could Be Jailed For Vegetable Garden
        The charges where later dropped, but still to be arrested for growing vegetables in the first place is wrong no matter how you look at it.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

          Here's another one for you Thomas.
          This isn't an isolated case either.
          Woman Could Be Jailed For Vegetable Garden
          The charges where later dropped, but still to be arrested for growing vegetables in the first place is wrong no matter how you look at it.
          There is a VERY famous person that has a sort of series on Disney TV. OK, she hasn't been on for a while, but it may have lasted a couple years. She keeps talking about eating vegetables and GROWING YOUR OWN! Maybe you heard of her?

          Michelle Obama! YEAH, the one currently at 1600 Pennsylvania ave!

          IRONIC, HUH!?!?!?

          BTW interesting. I can't seem to find those videos. At LEAST 3 covered JUST THIS, planting your own food.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            There is a VERY famous person that has a sort of series on Disney TV. OK, she hasn't been on for a while, but it may have lasted a couple years. She keeps talking about eating vegetables and GROWING YOUR OWN! Maybe you heard of her?

            Michelle Obama! YEAH, the one currently at 1600 Pennsylvania ave!

            IRONIC, HUH!?!?!?

            BTW interesting. I can't seem to find those videos. At LEAST 3 covered JUST THIS, planting your own food.

            Steve
            Here's even more irony for you Steve.
            While she's giving lip service to organics, her husband just appointed Micheal Taylor as the senior advisor to the commissioner of the FDA.

            In the late 70s, Taylor was an attorney for the United States Department of Agriculture, then in the 80s, a private lawyer at the D.C. law firm King & Spalding, where he represented Monsanto. When Taylor returned to government as Deputy Commissioner for Policy for the FDA from 1991 to 1994, the agency approved the use of Monsanto's GM growth hormone for dairy cows (now found in most U.S. milk) without labeling. His role in these decisions led to a federal investigation, though eventually he was exonerated of all conflict-of-interest charges.

            Taylor's re-appointment to the FDA came just after Obama and the other G-8 leaders pledged $20 billion to fight hunger in Africa over the next three years. "President Obama is currently embedded in a bubble featuring some of the fervent promoters of the biotech industry and a Green Revolution in Africa," says Paula Crossfield in the Huffington Post. Before joiningObama's transition team, Taylor was a Senior Fellow at the D.C. think tank Resources for the Future, where he published two documents on U.S. aid for African agriculture, both of which were funded by the Rockefeller Foundation.

            The Rockefeller Foundation funded the first Green Revolution in Asia and Latin America in the 1960s, and in 2006, teamed up with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to launch the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA). In Taylor's 2003 paper "American Patent Policy, Biotechnology, and African Agriculture: The Case for Policy Change," he states: "The Green Revolution largely bypassed sub-Saharan Africa African farmers often face difficult growing conditions, and better access to the basic Green Revolution tools of fertilizer, pesticides, improved seeds, and irrigation certainly can play an important role in improving their productivity."

            In an interview with AllAfrica.com, Obama echoed Taylor's sentiment: "I'm still frustrated over the fact that the Green Revolution that we introduced into India in the '60s, we haven't yet introduced into Africa in 2009."

            Yet as Crossfield points out, "There are very good reasons why we have never introduced a Green Revolution into Africa, namely because there is broad consensus that the Green Revolution in India has been a failure, with Indian farmers in debt, bound to paying high costs for seed and pesticides, committing suicide at much higher rates, and resulting in a depleted water table and a poisoned environment, and by extension, higher rates of cancer. If President Obama is lacking this information, it is his cabinet that is to blame."
            Michael Taylor: Monsanto's Man in the Obama Administration
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            There is a VERY famous person that has a sort of series on Disney TV. OK, she hasn't been on for a while, but it may have lasted a couple years. She keeps talking about eating vegetables and GROWING YOUR OWN! Maybe you heard of her?

            Michelle Obama! YEAH, the one currently at 1600 Pennsylvania ave!

            IRONIC, HUH!?!?!?

            BTW interesting. I can't seem to find those videos. At LEAST 3 covered JUST THIS, planting your own food.

            Steve
            I wrote a very nasty note to her about how she should be ashamed to prance around waving her beautiful organic garden in people's faces when half of the nation is petitioning for GMO labeling. What a lark. I hope her kids governess is feeding them Kellogs for breakfast -- and putting milk with rBGH and a couple spoons of splenda on it. Good empathy training.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              I wrote a very nasty note to her about how she should be ashamed to prance around waving her beautiful organic garden in people's faces when half of the nation is petitioning for GMO labeling. What a lark. I hope her kids governess is feeding them Kellogs for breakfast -- and putting milk with rBGH and a couple spoons of splenda on it. Good empathy training.
              WOW! The sad part is she probably never even found out. WOW, I would LOVE to telll you guys something I found out. A friend thought I was being spammed by some kid until I presented proof otherwise. Oh well, it would be considered too political. 8-(

              Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Joel Young
    Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

    Courthouse News Service

    They killed a dog, handcuffed people, and even caused a person to nearly die because she was not allowed to take her medicine, and was diabetic.


    Steve
    WTF indeed, but I thought this was current news. It happened a little over two years ago. Doesn't make it any less horrifying and appalling, just sayin'.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Thomas -
    Organic farms get raided and shut down. The gov has now decided it owns ALL water here. Raids are ongoing and it's becoming a problem that if the cops enter your property for any reason - even looking for a criminal they think might have jumped your fence, they kill the family dog.

    We have survelliance drones being installed on top of us and cameras on street corners, in parks - wherever they can stick one. Do I need to mention TSA?

    A judge just ruled that a case where a man was put in handcuffs and tased repeatedly to get information was legal! Torture is now legal to get confessions or info in our own country.

    They are trying to outlaw as many natural "cures" as possible. Vit C infusion to kill flu has become illegal. They took primatine mist off the market because of "fluorocarbons" and are taking their time approving the new pump while the 40 million asthma sufferers who benefited from it and were able to stay out of doctor's offices and away from their actually dangerous drugs suffer for it. Yet they are pushing vaccines they don't even know are safe yet or not.

    They are fighting against labeling GMOs and are planning on using the deadly chemicals in Agent Orange for pesticides because of the superweeds the last pesticide created.

    And lets not even go into the NDAA which is still being fought because some Americans still know it is wrong for police to be able to pick someone up with no probable cause and throw them in jail, deny them a lawyer and keep them there for life if they want to. Our prisons are for profit corporations.

    Insider trading is allowed for members of Congress only. Anyone else goes to jail for it.

    Land of the Free..........if, and only if, you are a member of our Congress (read: royalty).
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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas
      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

      Thomas we arrest people here for selling raw milk, yet it's perfectly legal to sell milk with rBGH in it go figure.
      Triple WTF!

      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Thomas -
      Organic farms get raided and shut down. The gov has now decided it owns ALL water here. Raids are ongoing and it's becoming a problem that if the cops enter your property for any reason - even looking for a criminal they think might have jumped your fence, they kill the family dog.

      We have survelliance drones being installed on top of us and cameras on street corners, in parks - wherever they can stick one. Do I need to mention TSA?

      A judge just ruled that a case where a man was put in handcuffs and tased repeatedly to get information was legal! Torture is now legal to get confessions or info in our own country.

      They are trying to outlaw as many natural "cures" as possible. Vit C infusion to kill flu has become illegal. They took primatine mist off the market because of "fluorocarbons" and are taking their time approving the new pump while the 40 million asthma sufferers who benefited from it and were able to stay out of doctor's offices and away from their actually dangerous drugs suffer for it. Yet they are pushing vaccines they don't even know are safe yet or not.

      They are fighting against labeling GMOs and are planning on using the deadly chemicals in Agent Orange for pesticides because of the superweeds the last pesticide created.

      And lets not even go into the NDAA which is still being fought because some Americans still know it is wrong for police to be able to pick someone up with no probable cause and throw them in jail, deny them a lawyer and keep them there for life if they want to. Our prisons are for profit corporations.

      Insider trading is allowed for members of Congress only. Anyone else goes to jail for it. .
      I think I've now run out of WTFs!
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

        Triple WTF!



        I think I've now run out of WTFs!
        So have I, Thomas. So have I. I was always intellectually able to understand Fascism - the the reality of it is absolutely astounding me. It's a systematic plunder, torture, and kill for gain by a group of corporate psychopaths.

        It's astonishing also how few can even see what is coming down the pike at them. Things have gotten bad enough now that millions are becoming aware very rapidly - but with modern technology, it will take sheer numbers to overcome any of this. We also have a LOT of people that are just too stupid to recognize what is going on. Most of those still have their money. They are going to be surprised when the next wave hits.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    This is very frustrating to read. It is so disturbing and surreal, it should belong to a Franz Kafka novel, not real life. I was already feeling frustrated today over some other nonsense that came my way.

    JustVisiting asks an absurd question that shouldn't apply to reality but does:
    "By the same token it must also be illegal to collect the Sun's rays with solar panels? Also, what about wind power? Is it illegal to use wind turbines too? Maybe soon you'll have to pay for the air you breathe?

    In a "free, democratic country", why do you let the law makers introduce such crap?"
    What will be next? Will water, solar energy, and wind be "deregulated" and handed over to corporate control in order to gauge consumers even more?
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    • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      JustVisiting asks an absurd question that shouldn't apply to reality but does:


      What will be next? Will water, solar energy, and wind be "deregulated" and handed over to corporate control in order to gauge consumers even more?
      Absurd question? This is a logical extrapolation.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

        Absurd question? This is a logical extrapolation.
        Sad, but all too true.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post

      This is very frustrating to read. It is so disturbing and surreal, it should belong to a Franz Kafka novel, not real life. I was already feeling frustrated today over some other nonsense that came my way.

      JustVisiting asks an absurd question that shouldn't apply to reality but does:


      What will be next? Will water, solar energy, and wind be "deregulated" and handed over to corporate control in order to gauge consumers even more?
      GOOD POINT! A class I took once had different political parties come over. NO, I don't think the two traditional US ones came. Anyway, one said his party wanted to send up sattelites, where it would be easier to get the suns rays(like that is REALLY needed), and use that to send down microwaves(like we REALLY need more of those). A powerplant would then change the microwaves to power, and sell it to the people! So WE pay for the rockets, and satellites to have MAYBE a minor increase in power which is then squandered to turn it into microwaves, and then lose more power turning that back to power, to SELL!!!!!!

      And have you ever seen a sattelite charged by solar power? They have a LOT of solar cells! I don't know if there will be much extra power to send down. They need power for attitude control, and orbital adjustment. And that is controlled through sensors and a computer. So it won't be up there simply to send us power. It has to use power to stay up there! It is a LOT simpler to just have solar cells here, and simply use the power for FREE! Even if they SELL it, we have less loss of power, no extraterrestrial maintenance, and no extra microwaves. OH, and the startup costs are lower!

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Patrician
      Originally Posted by thunderbird View Post


      What will be next?
      How about this?

      for nosy, intrusive government?

      Overturned but I am still reeling from the audacity of the serious attempt to regulate even innocent baby peters.

      San Francisco Circumcision Ban Struck from Ballot - ABC News

      You may just say 'only in California' or stuff like that but this was serious and I have to say being there are so many gay men that MOVED THERE and are a huge voting block, that they were probably just trying to save the last 2 inches of bragging rights.

      oh well, at least one ridiculous almost law bytes the dust.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

        How about this?

        for nosy, intrusive government?

        Overturned but I am still reeling from the audacity of the serious attempt to regulate even innocent baby peters.

        San Francisco Circumcision Ban Struck from Ballot - ABC News

        You may just say 'only in California' or stuff like that but this was serious and I have to say being there are so many gay men that MOVED THERE and are a huge voting block, that they were probably just trying to save the last 2 inches of bragging rights.

        oh well, at least one ridiculous almost law bytes the dust.
        The funny thing there Pat is circumcision was originally a Jewish religious ceremony. Then a doctor (probably jewish) said "I can make some good money selling this idea" and it became a medical thing. But it still serves no real purpose other then to make doctors a little greens fees money.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Patrician View Post

        How about this?

        for nosy, intrusive government?

        Overturned but I am still reeling from the audacity of the serious attempt to regulate even innocent baby peters.

        San Francisco Circumcision Ban Struck from Ballot - ABC News

        You may just say 'only in California' or stuff like that but this was serious and I have to say being there are so many gay men that MOVED THERE and are a huge voting block, that they were probably just trying to save the last 2 inches of bragging rights.

        oh well, at least one ridiculous almost law bytes the dust.
        Well, some idiots got together and, probably to make more money, created yet ANOTHER conspiracy! They apparently couldn't even come up with any real reason until relatively recently, and even THEN, it is BOGUS!

        The conspiracy? By default, they circumcise male babies, and they will effectively FORCE consent if it is an issue.

        So frankly, I don't like the issue of it myself. As I understand it, the conspiracy covered time from around WWII to about a couple decades ago.

        OH, and some kids end up having severe damage and some are given a "sex change operation"!

        BTW it CEASES to become religious when ALL are forced to have it done.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    What has happened is that Obama Admin created an executive order that gives the gov ownership of ALL surface water. That's what happened. They can take your right to use ANY water that they so determine they want to take.

    As far as water on property - that is right that the man had a PERMIT and they played with him on it. What about people that BOUGHT water rights when they bought their property and are now denied the right to use it as they want to? I know people that had water rights on their proprety and had subdivisions built around them and were forced to start using municipal water and shut down their own wells. Sorry - that should NOT happen ever. If you have your water rights, there's no way they should force you into city water, which is exactly what people buy water rights to avoid.

    What we are seeing is just one more problem that comes with over-population. When we don't have enough water to go around freely anymore - when what there is has become so polluted it is no longer potable --- we need to seek a lot better solutions than to have government just take it over -- they sell it to corporations and we already KNOW how benevolent and responsible corporations are when they get their hands on resources.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW, NOT to be religious.... In the US, there is a special sect of Christians that REFUSE to use 20th century technology. They REFUSE! NO power tools! NO cars! NO electricity! NO computers! They are isolated! Few if any taxes, or bother from outside. NO social security. NO welfare. etc...

    Well, it would be stupid and hypocritical to force their kids to stay with them without knowing what they are missing out on. So they allow their kids, after a certain point, to run wild outside for a while. Almost like the teenagers dream!

    After a while, the teenagers have to come back. If they leave, they are probably gone forever. If they stay, they commit to it.

    NOW, for the ODD thing! According to the washington times...... MORE ARE STAYING!!!!!

    Amish enjoy unexpected boom in numbers - Washington Times

    Could it be that they think we are headed for disaster and/or feel we are MORE nuts?!?!?!?

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author d1234
    scary stuff, glad it doesnt happen in UK
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  • Profile picture of the author bsbear
    I feel like this kinda stuff happens often and we don't hear about it most of the time.. so then when its on the news its like a big shocker.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Anything that hits mainstream news with any honesty and reality should be a shocker. If that is your idea of "news", it's not a wonder that you don't hear of this stuff going on. Our gov took our habeas corpus - probably the most astounding event in American history - and the number of people that don't know it is shocking. The number that don't realize that Corporate news is not what's going on - it's censored news and "corporate newsletter" type stuff - not hard hitting facts such as - you just lost your right to due process.
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    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Yes Thom, and I think the religious thing is what made the law fail too!

    God forbid already we should outlaw a religious rite!

    Mazeltov!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Oh - it's time for one more.

    Circumcision? WTF. Why would anyone care either way - and how does that get priority consideration at a time that the whole country is falling into ruins.

    I want what THEY'RE smoking.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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  • Profile picture of the author mikefrommaine
    I can't believe this kind of stuff actually happens. We live in a sad world sometimes.
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    • Profile picture of the author The 13th Warrior
      I love the notion of freedom here, when Monsanto can sue you or take your land or jail you "IF" their pollen fly to your farm and your farm has dna of some of their crop.

      How do you patent food??

      How do patent corn??!!!???

      How the " F " do you patent nature?!!?!?!????

      Next, freedom will be a patent owned and is a proprietary property of said corporation, are you kidding me??

      Hell, what else are they are going to patent?

      So let's see how far and ridiculous they are going to push it..., if some corporation patents some type of water structure on some private land in some private lake or pond..., the sun evaporates it, then it rains down on your farm , can they sue you and take your land and jail you just like their crop?

      What about the raid of law enforcement confiscating all the peoples canned goods?

      All this craziness is going to coalesce into one system, then the fun begins.

      It will be too late for most, because they will never believe until it is standing on their chest, stomping.

      And , lord, how can anyone even stomach listening to a LYING politician nowadays, who NEVER has to fulfill his promises and can promise the most ridiculous promises he NEVER has to fulfill, they could promise everyone in america will get a six figure salary, and its legal.

      I'd rather listen to musical farts at a chili dog eating contest.



      The 13th Warrior
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianCorcoran
    was this in california? Some weird stuff happening!
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