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Cutting loose certain type of friends

by johnnykim2012
16 replies
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We all have friends - good or bad. The important question is when is the right time to cut out the bad apples. I'm sharing two stories and let me know your opinion.

Story 1

I have a friend B who I know for 10 years now. Back in HS, since I was the only one who had a driving license, I would shuttle him back and forth when we hang out with friends. Each trip will take about 10 miles. This went on for years. I'm cool about driving people but B never ever try to give back like offering to pitch-in for gas or offering to buy food/drink. I don't care about the gas money or food money but it is thought and gesture that counts. If someone shuttled me for years, I will do whatever I can to show my gratitude.

Fast-forward to this year earlier. I'm done school and running a fast-growing business while B is still in school. He came to me and wanted me to be his employment reference so he can claimed that he volunteered for me and helped to grow my business on his resume. I felt uncomfortable at the idea because I know he's not the type of employee I would hire and does not have strong work ethic. I practically will have to lie to the prospective employer. However, I agreed to help him since he was a friend.

In May, his summer break started so I asked "hey , why don't you volunteered for me for real since you are not doing anything?" He agreed. He showed up for work on the first-day perfectly on-time. On the 2nd day, he didn't show the next day and called-in that he had to study. On the third day, he didn't show at all. When I called, he said he didn't have a car that day and said was raining. On the next day, he said he couldn't come because he was volunteering at the local cancer society.

I had enough so I told him to forget about it and don't have to come in anymore. He said he wanted to help so I told him I'll let him know when I need help.

Fast-forward to this month. We are running a promotional campaign and needed some forum posters with western IP because our freelancers often get banned quite quickly. As result, I asked B if he can help me make a post in 10 forums per day for a total of 10 posts per day. He was reluctant so I confronted him that I'm putting my reputation on-the-line to vouch for him but he can't even make 10 posts for me per day?

He began making sarcastic comment about how I'm thinking so much like a business person that everything is a transaction. He then said his thinking of friendship is more traditional where he would not expect anything in return when he helped someone. Ironically, immediately after that statement, he said "I don't expect anything in return when I help someone, I know they will help me when I need help." . Can you see the irony in this?

Today, he messaged again saying that he cannot make 10 posts per day because it is taking very long. I just ignored his message and will not pursue any further.

Story 2

I have another friend, let's call him C. C is also a moocher that likes to take advantage of someone every time he has a chance. I don't think he is doing it maliciously. Instead, this is his innate personal character which I find extremely repulsive.

Recently, I need to acquire the e-mail of a competitor who I wish to acquire. I didn't have time to find the information so I mentioned to C that I'll pay him $100 if he can find me the address.

Surely enough, he found it the next day. I was happy and happy to honour my offer. However, the way that he presented himself in regards to the $100 left a bad taste to my mouth. He showed me the e-mail and demanded the payment. He began to propose different payment methods I could use to pay him. It felt extremely desperate and tacky when coming from a friend.

I said sure but please send an e-mail to this address to make sure it works and will actually reach the person. Do you know what he said next? He demanded $50 deposit. Another bad taste in my mouth but I sent him the money anyway.

The next day, he made another urgent phone call saying that he got the email verified and asked me to pay him. To avoid further trouble, I made the payment. Unknowingly, I sent the remaining $50 to my another account due to my bi-weekly habit of transferring fund to that account. I discovered this error when C phoned me again urgently that night and said he didn't receive the $50. I proceed to check my paypal history, discovered the error, and sent the proper payment.

$100 is not big money but it really shocked me. I will gladly honour my offer. It's just that the way he handled the whole thing was not very classy.

I wouldn't be surprised if C would act this way when there is money involved - I have known him for 10 years. I was surprised at the magnitude and speed of change of his behaviour when he saw the $ sign.

I often joked with C that if I made $100 million, I would get him an used Aston martin. After this $100 experience, I don't think I will make that joke anymore.


Discussion

On the other hand, I also have friends who are either generous or are fair. To these friends, I have no problem picking up the taps when out for dinner or pick up expensive gifts for them. Is this why there is a saying "you need to give before you can receiving" ? People are more likely to help generous/fair people because no one likes to be shafted.

What is your thought? Am I wrong to make these judgement? Do you have similar experience?
  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    You're not wrong to make judgments about your friendships -- you're the only one who can in this room. It doesn't sound like they are they are the same kind of "friends" to you that you are to them, though, from hearing your side of the stories. As far as cutting them loose, as you put it ... perhaps "drift away" is a better way to go.

    The last part of your post kind of makes me wonder if you are buying friends. Do the people you buy dinner or gifts for do the same for you? Would they disappear if you didn't treat them to meals and gifts? Real friends will reciprocate if they are in a position to do so. Users, not so much.
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    • Profile picture of the author johnnykim2012
      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

      You're not wrong to make judgments about your friendships -- you're the only one who can in this room. It doesn't sound like they are they are the same kind of "friends" to you that you are to them, though, from hearing your side of the stories. As far as cutting them loose, as you put it ... perhaps "drift away" is a better way to go.

      The last part of your post kind of makes me wonder if you are buying friends. Do the people you buy dinner or gifts for do the same for you? Would they disappear if you didn't treat them to meals and gifts? Real friends will reciprocate if they are in a position to do so. Users, not so much.
      Hi Dennis,

      I probably worded it poorly. They do reciprocate. That's the precise reason why I have no problem offer to pay because I know they will reciprocate.

      You mentioned that real friends will try to reciprocate if they are able to but users won't. Do you think there are people who simply have this character flaw that they like to take more than they give?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
        Originally Posted by johnnykim2012 View Post

        Hi Dennis,

        You mentioned that real friends will try to reciprocate if they are able to but users won't. Do you think there are people who simply have this character flaw that they like to take more than they give?
        I'd probably call it a character "trait" rather than "flaw." Flaw indicates a defect, but if that's how someone was raised they would be acting in harmony with their belief system. Hard for me to call that a defect in character.

        The way I see it is this ... they are who they are, it's up to you to decide if you want to continue accepting who they are as active friends or if you want to drift apart and cultivate friendships with others whose values align closer to your own.

        I was once good friends with someone who used people. I guessed at where he was headed with his life and didn't want to go there, and he didn't want to change, so we drifted apart. Years later his ex-wife contacted me and filled me in on him. In and out of prison, drug abuse, disowned by his children ... sometimes our friends try to take us down roads to nowhere. It's up to us to figure out when to exit.
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        • Profile picture of the author johnnykim2012
          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

          I'd probably call it a character "trait" rather than "flaw." Flaw indicates a defect, but if that's how someone was raised they would be acting in harmony with their belief system. Hard for me to call that a defect in character.

          The way I see it is this ... they are who they are, it's up to you to decide if you want to continue accepting who they are as active friends or if you want to drift apart and cultivate friendships with others whose values align closer to your own.

          I was once good friends with someone who used people. I guessed at where he was headed with his life and didn't want to go there, and he didn't want to change, so we drifted apart. Years later his ex-wife contacted me and filled me in on him. In and out of prison, drug abuse, disowned by his children ... sometimes our friends try to take us down roads to nowhere. It's up to us to figure out when to exit.
          I guess you are right. It was a clash of personal value. It was hard to see when you are younger but as you develop as a person. We tend to drift away.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm disappointed to hear you say that, Dennis. We were hoping for a serious round of freebies. Damned.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm disappointed to hear you say that, Dennis. We were hoping for a serious round of freebies. Damned.
      Perhaps I should drift away, and you and the rest of "we" can outshout my few words and salvage those freebies after all.
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  • Profile picture of the author MattStevens
    Remember Johnny, You can pick your friends, but you cant pick your friends noses! Make new friends.
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  • Profile picture of the author William Maloney
    Friends can be so fake.. and two-faced. It's very important not to get close to "anyone". Maintain the distance, be friendly but double-think before doing something for someone. When you see a fake friend, turn your back on him.
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    EDIT BY MODERATOR: Why does your location say "Chicago" when your IP is in Romania?
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      It's also due to IM!

      I and others have lost quite a few friends, because we were creating successful businesses, (or trying to) online or off.

      If someone see's one of their friends persist for years on end, they assume that, that will always be the case and that individual will try forever and fail!

      That fortunately isn't the case, constantly improving and persisting will win in the end!

      This reminds me of when Edison was dragged in front of the court of law, because some people thought that he must be insane to try, thousands of times, (electric light bulb).

      And he rebuffed by saying he knows thousands of ways it doesn't work, and eventually succeeded.

      No, if you go down the IM path, unless you are lucky, it is inevitable that you will lose some friends, but that is ok, just make some new ones, that understand what it takes to succeed!

      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author johnnykim2012
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        It's also due to IM!

        I and others have lost quite a few friends, because we were creating successful businesses, (or trying to) online or off.

        If someone see's one of their friends persist for years on end, they assume that, that will always be the case and that individual will try forever and fail!

        That fortunately isn't the case, constantly improving and persisting will win in the end!

        This reminds me of when Edison was dragged in front of the court of law, because some people thought that he must be insane to try, thousands of times, (electric light bulb).

        And he rebuffed by saying he knows thousands of ways it doesn't work, and eventually succeeded.

        No, if you go down the IM path, unless you are lucky, it is inevitable that you will lose some friends, but that is ok, just make some new ones, that understand what it takes to succeed!

        Shane
        Hi Shane,

        Your post reminds me of the books by Felix Dennis. He mentioned the road toward riches will be a lonely one.:p
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I read the OP's post - then read it again. My conclusion is I wouldn't want him for friend myself. Friendship is not a balancing act of quid pro quo. Doing a favor doesn't create a debt for a friend.

      I practically will have to lie to the prospective employer. However, I agreed to help him since he was a friend.
      You were willing to lie to a business employer - and your friend asked you because he knew you would do it. And apparently, you did.

      needed some forum posters with western IP because our freelancers often get banned quite quickly
      You were "owed" for a fake reference - so wanted the friend to spam forums for you?

      Recently, I need to acquire the e-mail of a competitor who I wish to acquire. I didn't have time to find the information so I mentioned to C that I'll pay him $100 if he can find me the address.

      Surely enough, he found it the next day. I was happy and happy to honour my offer. However, the way that he presented himself in regards to the $100 left a bad taste to my mouth. He showed me the e-mail and demanded the payment. He began to propose different payment methods I could use to pay him. It felt extremely desperate and tacky when coming from a friend.
      This is revealing. You wanted some info without competitor knowing you were getting the info - so you hired a friend for $100. Then you resented it when your friend wanted to be paid?

      You wanted to verify - wanted to delay - sent payment to wrong account - sent half of payment. When you hire people to do underhanded things for you - they expect immediate payment at that level of "business". If you were willing to pay $100 for an email address - there was more to it than saving a few minutes of time.

      This is a rant without a reason.
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      • Profile picture of the author johnnykim2012
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        • Profile picture of the author nipsyr
          I don't see that much wrong with your friends. They are who they are and it is nice when people allow us to be who we are.

          The first scenario, did your friend know him helping you was repayment for the reference?

          The second scenario. Your friend did what you asked and expected to be paid. You didn't do it in a timely manner. He might have needed that money right away for something plus there is the trust factor. Maybe he didn't trust that you would pay him.

          Just some things to consider.
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          • Profile picture of the author johnnykim2012
            Originally Posted by nipsyr View Post

            I don't see that much wrong with your friends. They are who they are and it is nice when people allow us to be who we are.

            The first scenario, did your friend know him helping you was repayment for the reference?

            The second scenario. Your friend did what you asked and expected to be paid. You didn't do it in a timely manner. He might have needed that money right away for something plus there is the trust factor. Maybe he didn't trust that you would pay him.

            Just some things to consider.
            #1, He knows helping counts as a "repayment" but does it even matter? If we are going to talk about the ideal world, friends should help friends right? I helped him when he needed it, I'm at least an average friend right? I asked for help when I needed but he was reluctant to help, is he a good friend? Let's be fair.

            #2, You could be right. However, I never have to borrow anything from him so I don't see where trust factor can be coming in. Instead, it should be the other way around because he is always asking to borrow things from me and rarely return them (I don't doubt he will return if I asked).
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      • Profile picture of the author johnnykim2012
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I read the OP's post - then read it again. My conclusion is I wouldn't want him for friend myself. Friendship is not a balancing act of quid pro quo. Doing a favor doesn't create a debt for a friend.



        You were willing to lie to a business employer - and your friend asked you because he knew you would do it. And apparently, you did.



        You were "owed" for a fake reference - so wanted the friend to spam forums for you?



        This is revealing. You wanted some info without competitor knowing you were getting the info - so you hired a friend for $100. Then you resented it when your friend wanted to be paid?

        You wanted to verify - wanted to delay - sent payment to wrong account - sent half of payment. When you hire people to do underhanded things for you - they expect immediate payment at that level of "business". If you were willing to pay $100 for an email address - there was more to it than saving a few minutes of time.

        This is a rant without a reason.
        I think you missed the point on both. Certainly. Favour is not a debt. However, when someone tend to receive favour but refuse or reluctant to return favour, what does that make him?

        Human relationship is a more sophisticated game of trading. This also applies to love relationship. If you buy your girl gifts every Feb14, for 10 years, but she never got you anything every Feb 14 for 10 years. How would you FEEL? Are you gonna be a contend guy because love, arguably, is less of a debt than friendship. Or are you gonna feel slighted and wonder if someone might not care about you as much as you do to her?

        1. To story #1, I resented because I acted good faith to helped someone. However, when I needed help, they were reluctant to help. Now, you tell me with a straight face that I should be padding my friend on the back and say "You are such a good friend because I helped you when you needed but you are not willing to help me when I needed help.".

        2. To story #2, you missed the point yet again. You say this is a business transaction which I will agree. However, you also claim that helping a friend is NOT a business transaction and not a debt in story #1. Now that puzzled me because you are either contradicting yourself OR to you, when there is dollar sign involved, friendship does not matter to you?

        Again, the post is not about money. The post is about how someone can change very quickly (his entire behaviour) when there is money dangling in front of them.

        I just went out with few others good friends out for dinner. I volunteered to pick up the check for one of them even when he insisted to pay (the bill was more than $50; not that it matters but it might since you thought money was a factor in my previous stories.).

        Would I volunteer the same thing if the friend is type who always tend to ask "hey, grab the bill for me" even when they have money? Absolutely not.


        p.s. whether or not my payment was intended to save few minutes or not, you can speculate. However, you tend to be more willing to spend money to make problem to go away when you have strong CF.
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  • Profile picture of the author Humbled
    I like this post a lot, some people are just horrible when it comes to money. I like that you used the word repulsive to describe that character trait as its so true. I tend to call them cheapskates and from my experiance of people when it comes to people with poor manner, people who are cocky or arrogant these things can all be annoying but there is nothing I know as low as a cheapskate.
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  • Profile picture of the author FIP
    Hi johnnykim2012

    The common denominator in this is you. You are clearly a generous giving person who may attract certain types looking to capitalise on that generosity.

    You appear to have a good work ethic your first friend doesn't have and he will pull you down. In his mind its all about him, so again I would move on to more supportive and genuine associations - but thats your decision obviously - nobody elses.

    Your second friend sounds similar. I'd be personally uncomfortable with those types of people in my inner circle.

    Your final comments reveal your approach perhaps? Are you too generous and all too ready to be accepted or loved or liked by giving readily to others?

    This is an opportunity for you to not only look at all your associations, but to importantly look at yourself and why you are attracting them.

    Remember it starts with you. Wish these people well but don't get dragged down by them - they are using you.

    Hope that helps mate

    Cheers

    FIP
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