Your right to resell your own stuff is in peril

18 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
It could become illegal to resell your iPhone 4, car or family antiques

CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- Tucked into the U.S. Supreme Court's busy agenda this fall is a little-known case that could upend your ability to resell everything from your grandmother's antique furniture to your iPhone 4.

Your right to resell your own stuff is in peril - Jennifer Waters's Consumer Confidential - MarketWatch

At issue in Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons is the first-sale doctrine in copyright law, which allows you to buy and then sell things like electronics, books, artwork and furniture as well as CDs and DVDs, without getting permission from the copyright holder of those products.

That's being challenged now for products that are made abroad and if the Supreme Court upholds an appellate court ruling it would mean that the copyright holders of anything you own that has been made in China, Japan or Europe, for example, would have to give you permission to sell it.

"It means that it's harder for consumers to buy used products and harder for them to sell them," said Jonathan Bland, an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center, who filed a friend-of-the-court brief on behalf of the American Library Association, the Association of College and Research Libraries and the Association for Research Libraries. "This has huge consumer impact on all consumer groups."

Another likely result is that it would hit you financially because the copyright holder would now want a piece of that sale.
  • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
    Banned
    No way in hell to police this. This is just big government wanting to strangle more of your freedom away. Sickening.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7107006].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bsbear
      Originally Posted by SandraLarkin View Post

      No way in hell to police this. This is just big government wanting to strangle more of your freedom away. Sickening.
      That's insane and would cause so many problems.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7107327].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I'm thinking of the garbage problem it would create if all that stuff that people no longer want ends up in landfills. Our landfills are already overwhelmed.

    Then there are thrift shops - and the charities that run them that will be shut down due to funding issues from the loss of the stores. How many jobs is that? And what about the poor who can't afford new items? Good grief, that will take poverty to a whole new level of discomfort. Even most of the lower to higher middle class people I know shop at thrift stores now and again.

    Seems like laws are being made solely so they can ream our wallets further - and to have reason to go after anyone for anything when they want to do it.

    This can't seriously be something that will get passed as is - it will be edited, I'm sure. If not - we've got to rethink who we're putting in charge real fast.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7107523].message }}
    • Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I'm thinking of the garbage problem it would create if all that stuff that people no longer want ends up in landfills. Our landfills are already overwhelmed.

      Then there are thrift shops - and the charities that run them that will be shut down due to funding issues from the loss of the stores. How many jobs is that? And what about the poor who can't afford new items? Good grief, that will take poverty to a whole new level of discomfort. Even most of the lower to higher middle class people I know shop at thrift stores now and again.

      Seems like laws are being made solely so they can ream our wallets further - and to have reason to go after anyone for anything when they want to do it.

      This can't seriously be something that will get passed as is - it will be edited, I'm sure. If not - we've got to rethink who we're putting in charge real fast.
      That's a perfect example - I read awhile back where a town passed an ordinance for the thrift shops to record the licenses, addresses, etc. of all the CD's Games, and similar of all the people who brought them in to sell - they were also going to curb garage sales, - the city said it was to stem crime and theft of these kind of items...the small re-sale shops would be mired in paperwork, and people stopped bringing their items in because of the hassle...needless to say, I heard through a client several of the shops have now closed up - and not because they were selling stolen merchandise.

      In the current economic situation more people were seeing garage sales as a way to make a little extra...now they couldn't even do that.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7107936].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The ONLY thing that I have EVER seen that has a license even ALLOWING that is SOFTWARE! And a lot of stuff in CARS is made in china, so I guess this gets rid of used cars!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7107875].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    There's another issue with this...what about libraries? Or how about at a Dr's office waiting room where there are books and magazines out for everyone to read?

    IMO, if there are countries that want to impose this type of restrictions, let's impose a "special" tariff/import tax on those items.
    Signature
    Discover the fastest and easiest ways to create your own valuable products.
    Tons of FREE Public Domain content you can use to make your own content, PLR, digital and POD products.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7114322].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Oh christ on a pogo stick, Kurt - don't give em any ideas for how to tax something else.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7114334].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Seriously, Sal has a point. There is a kook that was in washington, though he STILL has pull, that is famous for a LOT of "ideas". WHERE does he get them all? He PLAGIARIZES them!

    I'm just using it as an example, and I could think of at least a half dozen people may think of, so hopefully nobody feels it is political.

    Anyway, my point is that he may know a guy that has a kid that has a kid that, while chasing their dog happened to see your comment, and it may end up as a bill in the front page of USA today. Who knows!?!?

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7114403].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Tayman
      Wow, can you imagine the ramifications if this gets upheld in court?

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7114447].message }}
      • Originally Posted by Tayman View Post

        Wow, can you imagine the ramifications if this gets upheld in court?

        Well, at this point we can only cross our fingers - it is on the docket, and the SC has agreed to hear the argument - how far it will get at this point is moot.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7114817].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author vivo
    Wow.. and I thought they had thought of everything. It's kind of funny, usually I don't agree with the St. Lous Fed, but they uave floated the idea of eliminating copyrights. Sounds good to me.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7114850].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
    What a can of worms. Questions which spring to my mind are:

    Unless they require everyone to register for every product they buy or currently own, who is to say who the owner is?

    Would it effect products of any value or only those over a certain value?

    Would they implement a sales tax on personal item resale?

    And ...
    Online auction sites would go to the wall.
    Signature
    "...If at first you don't succeed; call it Version 1.0"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7115823].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    self deleted post. gonna get myself banned if I don't calm down.
    Signature

    I

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7116001].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      At issue in Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons is the first-sale doctrine in copyright law, which allows you to buy and then sell things like electronics, books, artwork and furniture as well as CDs and DVDs, without getting permission from the copyright holder of those products.
      This could be handled easily via the EULA (end user license agreement) that would be part of the original purchase.

      That's being challenged now for products that are made abroad and if the Supreme Court upholds an appellate court ruling it would mean that the copyright holders of anything you own that has been made in China, Japan or Europe, for example, would have to give you permission to sell it.

      "It means that it's harder for consumers to buy used products and harder for them to sell them," said Jonathan Bland, an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center, who filed a friend-of-the-court brief on behalf of the American Library Association, the Association of College and Research Libraries and the Association for Research Libraries. "This has huge consumer impact on all consumer groups."
      Again, this could be handled easily via the EULA.


      Another likely result is that it would hit you financially because the copyright holder would now want a piece of that sale.
      The copyright holders are compensated as part of their terms of business with the product creator. Certainly you "retain all rights" from the oDesk'er that's building a website for your client.

      Where this could come into play is at the time of original purchase and the price.


      "You mean I can't sell this as a used car when I'm ready to buy a new car?"


      "That's correct sir, you can only trade it in at your authorized Ford dealer."


      "Ah... can you tell me where the authorized Toyota dealer is?"


      Joe Mobley


      Signature

      .

      Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7116167].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Let's extrapolate this further. What about gifts?

    I buy a cd/dvd/whatever and give it to someone else. I purchased the "license" but I am not the end user.

    Have I broken this "law"?

    Will that make Christmas and birthday presents illegal?

    This is too stupid for words. Hopefully the SC will throw it out on its @rse.
    Signature
    Why do garden gnomes smell so bad?
    So that blind people can hate them as well.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7116441].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well, ya gotta remember - they're about to lose their pot black market so they have to set up a new black market before we're smoking fatties legally. TPTB should find it rather embarrassing, though, that their citizens could actually need a 2nd hand black market. Right.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7116487].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author KEKilpatrick
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Well, ya gotta remember - they're about to lose their pot black market so they have to set up a new black market before we're smoking fatties legally. TPTB should find it rather embarrassing, though, that their citizens could actually need a 2nd hand black market. Right.

      "I just bought a 73 Pinto on the black market WOOHOO!!! now who can I back into?"
      Signature

      “Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see and hear. Since the initial publication of the charged electromagnetic spectrum, humans learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear…is less than one millionth of reality”

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7129788].message }}

Trending Topics