Chinese Plant Wipes Out CANCER In 40 Days!

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A drug made from a plant known as "thunder god vine," or lei gong teng, that has been used in traditional Chinese medicine, wiped out pancreatic tumors in mice, researchers said, and may soon be tested in humans.

Mice treated with the compound showed no signs of tumors after 40 days or after discontinuing the treatment, according to researchers at the University of Minnesota's Masonic Cancer Center. The research, funded by the university and the National Institutes of Health. was published today in the journal Science Translational Medicine.

Drug From Chinese
  • Profile picture of the author Ernie Lo
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    • Profile picture of the author Riptor
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lo View Post

      If true expect this plant to be banned in the western world...
      Cancer - The Forbidden Cures

      RTR.org - Cancer - The Forbidden Cures
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    • Originally Posted by Ernie Lo View Post

      If true expect this plant to be banned in the western world...

      nah.....they will get a patent for it, and make a lot of $$$$
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    • Profile picture of the author JoeUK
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lo View Post

      If true expect this plant to be banned in the western world...
      Exactly, natural cures and remedies not permitted, synthetic drugs and poisons only thank you.
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    • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
      Originally Posted by Ernie Lo View Post

      If true expect this plant to be banned in the western world...
      Well, then, if someone wants that treatment, just buy a plane ticket to China. They'd welcome Western patients and their money over there.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    and who in their right mind is going to chase a rhino, let alone subdue him long enough to cut off his horn and get away before being squashed or trampled to death.
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    • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
      Originally Posted by laurencewins View Post

      and who in their right mind is going to chase a rhino, let alone subdue him long enough to cut off his horn and get away before being squashed or trampled to death.
      How about poachers for the Chinese? Same with Elephants and Tigers and Bears.

      It's big business.

      Prince William appalled by slaughter of friend's rhino killed by poachers in Kenya | Mail Online

      Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by laurencewins View Post

      and who in their right mind is going to chase a rhino, let alone subdue him long enough to cut off his horn and get away before being squashed or trampled to death.
      Someone with a gun who's paid a tidy sum for doing so I expect!

      We've killed enough rats. I don't see anyone pussyfooting around rhinos when there's a supposed cure for cancer at stake...

      It's not going to be very logical with regards to extinction mind you...
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I watched a documentary where they tried sawing off the horns of rhinos so they wouldn't be poached for their horns. All of them survived and weren't killed.

    However, none of the females had any off spring that survived. The researchers discovered that the mother rhinos without horns had no defense against lions and couldn't protect their babies.


    People really need to become more aware about the impact Chinese myths are having on wildlife. It's devastating.
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    • Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I watched a documentary where they tried sawing off the horns of rhinos so they wouldn't be poached for their horns. All of them survived and weren't killed.

      However, none of the females had any off spring that survived. The researchers discovered that the mother rhinos without horns had no defense against lions and couldn't protect their babies.


      People really need to become more aware about the impact Chinese myths are having on wildlife. It's devastating.

      I can see the Headline now..."FDA Bans Sale Of plant known as “thunder god vine,” or lei gong teng" (wouldn't want to upset big pharma)

      Also a related Rhino story: Rhino slaughter in South Africa sets savage pace: 455 so far this year - World News
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      I watched a documentary where they tried sawing off the horns of rhinos so they wouldn't be poached for their horns. All of them survived and weren't killed.

      However, none of the females had any off spring that survived. The researchers discovered that the mother rhinos without horns had no defense against lions and couldn't protect their babies.


      People really need to become more aware about the impact Chinese myths are having on wildlife. It's devastating.
      WHO ON EARTH wouldn't realize that rhinos have relatively little defense if they have no horns. ALSO, they may forget or rely on habit, so the fact that they HAD a horn would slow them down enough to be a detriment.

      As for chinese myths? Last I knew, parts of the US were STILL reeling because of some guy that bought a mating pair of chinese snakehead fish, and ended up putting them in his pond outside. The fsh bred, and kept migrating, and invaded the potomac river. They ended up destroying vegitation and killing most of the other fish. And WHY did he buy the fish? He(chinese) felt his chinese wife was ill, and chinese medicine said these fish could help.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author MrBucketBucketsOfFun
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  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    We're getting a bit carried away with the rhinos here. We all know that the Chinese use some pretty weird shit (like rhino horns, monkey semen, deer penis etc.) to cure all kind of ailments, but this might have some substance. Research is, after all, being conducted in the United States and American scientists appear to be positive about the results.

    "This drug is just unbelievably potent in killing tumor cells," said Ashok Saluja, vice chairman of research at the center and the study's leader, said in a telephone interview. "You could see that every day you looked at those mice, the tumor was decreasing and decreasing, and then just gone."

    The plant, also known as Tripterygium wilfordii, contains triptolide, which earlier studies have shown can cause cancer cells to die. In traditional Chinese medicine, the plant is used as a treatment for rheumatoid arthritis. While the researchers hope to start human trials in six months, Saluja said it's still a long leap from mice to people.

    "Does that mean it will definitely work in humans?" he said. "We can definitely not say that."

    The results pave the way for clinical trials in patients with pancreatic cancer, one of the most lethal malignancies, the researchers said in the study. About 44,000 new cases of the disease are diagnosed each year in the U.S., according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. Only about 20 percent of patients survive a year after diagnosis, Saluja said.

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  • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
    Great news for all mice!
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Yeah, my mother went through that and she is out $10,000 even with gov, sub,!

      I would rather see a Chinese practitioner and get a root herb and consultation for a couple of hundred all up or less than $1000 tops, than $10,000 to $50,000!!! :rolleyes:

      Yep, medicine is a billion dollar industry, or so called Cancer therapy; this root herb, will be buried and all evidence!

      Far better to keep a massive company making money through the sick, than to provide the best medicine!

      This sort of crap, is happening, in a lot of industrys; bury cheap, and easy answers and develop, long, expensive ones!!!


      This subject is making me sick!!!

      Shane :rolleyes:

      PS just finished watching the video, the medical profession is making me sicker!

      Explains why cancer is increasing, the masses can find no answer than what the doctors give!

      And the proven, cheap easy cures are being buried!!!

      I'd better get off this thread, l feel a rant coming on!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    You can find cures - they are all over the place. They just aren't talked about. As long as we live in a for profit country, We aren't going to get low profit cures. Period. The pharmaceutical companies own our health care systems. We don't have health care. We have a medical industrial complex every bit as dangerous and deadly as the military industrial complex.

    In my family - we now call cancer "just cancer".

    Of course - prevention is hella better than expunging so maybe people should start looking more at what they put in their mouths in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    I've read kudzu controls erosion.

    Hows that working out? :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
      The plant used has actually been proven to be clinically effective in treating rhematoid arthritis. However, it is very toxic and has a number of unpleasant side effects. It can be very dangerous if it is not extracted properly.

      Therefore, I wouldn't count on it as being a potential miracle cure for cancer. Many drugs used in the treatment of Rheumatoid Arthritis are used for treating cancers as well, albeit usually at a higher dose. If this plant causes serious side effects with existing dose in Rheumatoid Arthritis, the higher dose that may be required of cancer may be unusable because of side effects.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

        The plant used has actually been proven to be clinically effective in treating rhematoid arthritis. However, it is very toxic and has a number of unpleasant side effects. It can be very dangerous if it is not extracted properly.

        Therefore, I wouldn't count on it as being a potential miracle cure for cancer. Many drugs used in the treatment of Rheumatoid Arthritis are used for treating cancers as well, albeit usually at a higher dose. If this plant causes serious side effects with existing dose in Rheumatoid Arthritis, the higher dose that may be required of cancer may be unusable because of side effects.
        Sounds exactly like Chemo,
        What are the side effects of chemo? Treating the side effects has turned into as big a business as treating cancer with chemo has.
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  • Profile picture of the author theomegaformula
    Do not, I repeat, do not believe this works. I've heard about this before and I've seen images of people with their faces burned off from this. Not slight burns but completely missing their noses/mouths/etc.

    Do a search on it and you'll see some pretty horrific stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author m4dcoder
    rhino's bad day is coming soon
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    There have been dozens of cures for cancer in mice, but none have worked in humans. How many medical treatments work in mice and then carry over to humans? Anyone follow the medical community enough to know?

    It just seems like human cures for various ailments are the surprise result of taking medication meant for something else. For instance, men with heart problems taking something that just so happened to also cure their ED. That sort of thing seems to be how human cures are found.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

      There have been dozens of cures for cancer in mice, but none have worked in humans. How many medical treatments work in mice and then carry over to humans? Anyone follow the medical community enough to know?

      It just seems like human cures for various ailments are the surprise result of taking medication meant for something else. For instance, men with heart problems taking something that just so happened to also cure their ED. That sort of thing seems to be how human cures are found.
      Many of them can -- but they would be almost free to use and are, therefore, not allowed for use.

      Think about it. Cancer is organic. Anything poisonous to that particular organism can kill it. So if something is poisonous to cancer, it's poison to it. Period. You can kill any organism with whatever is poisonous to it.

      Most of those things are not legal for use because there's no profit for the medical industrial complex. Those that are legal are priced so crazily that they can wipe out millionaires. If it takes 4 months to clean the cancer out - you will get 20 day doses, then you have to pay for another 20 days........if you run out of ability to pay, you have bought some time, but not your life.

      If you want to get rid of cancer in the US -- you have to make all health care - ALL health care from hospital stays to medication -- NONPROFIT. Until health care is actually non-profit, people are going to die of cancer unless they learn to deal with it on their own.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ten
    That is really amazing if that is true!
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    So here's a question for you....The majority of posters on here so far seem to have similar comment about how "BigPharma" will hinder or squash any real application of this.
    ...obviously there is an public awareness of BigPharma behavior, and an agreeance to what that behavior is.

    So....when is somebody going to get the balls to do something about it?

    Food for thought.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      So here's a question for you....The majority of posters on here so far seem to have similar comment about how "BigPharma" will hinder or squash any real application of this.
      ...obviously there is an public awareness of BigPharma behavior, and an agreeance to what that behavior is.

      So....when is somebody going to get the balls to do something about it?

      Food for thought.

      I suspect that a real Cancer treatment, which is cheap, easy and the ingredients are easily attainable, will be buried, but...

      but, it only takes one millionaire, or billionaire, who doesn't give a crap about his rick friends, to take a stand. I know Bill Gates has donated billions, but he is also on a political leash.


      So l suspect someone with serious money could post or email the ingredients to a billion or so people, so it would go viral. That way he, remains anomysus, (and doesn't have to worry about dark corners) and the planet finally gets very positive feedback!

      This scenario could also play out for Free energy, etc, a 12 volt generator on every doorstep, for a billion people, which is royalty free, and see what happens!

      If your enemy is too strong use their supply channels against them!


      Should put a few backs up against the wall, but this is all hypothetical of course?? :rolleyes:

      Shane
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      I have proof that cancer is hereditary in white mice. Everything gives white mice cancer, and then it goes away as they mature. Scientific fact.

      Of course, the government is going to squash that information. They want us to be zombies. That's why all the zombie movies are coming out. Of course, the government is covering that up too. Antonio Banderas was in a Zorro movie. But the "Z" actually is a code for "Zombie apocalypse." Have you ever heard that before? NO! because it was hushed up!

      Yup, cancer ridden Zorro zombie apocalypse. It's coming soon. All the signs point to it. It was documented in a study in Zambia...It was titled "The Zambia Zorro Zombie Report"

      That of course, was hushed up by our government. Again. And by every doctor, and pharmacist, and scientist, and newspaper, and news agency, and reporter, and cancer researcher, and white mouse owner. Virtually everyone on the planet except me and my imaginary friends are in on it. Fact.

      I even have pictures of white mice (very blurry. They are secret pictures. I got them on Youtube), proving that white mice have the cure in their blood.

      I just want to fit in.

      And I don't want anyone making fun of my theory either. It's based on the strictest scientific evidence. We need to respect everyone's opinion right? Well, you just heard mine.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        And I don't want anyone making fun of my theory either. It's based on the strictest scientific evidence. We need to respect everyone's opinion right? Well, you just heard mine.
        Yep, two or three glasses of wine, and l will be dead serious!


        And l know Zombies exist, l just saw some pushing some shopping trolly's through the shopping centre! Will have to keep my eye on them, don't want to end up a Zombie dessert?

        Shane
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

      So here's a question for you....The majority of posters on here so far seem to have similar comment about how "BigPharma" will hinder or squash any real application of this.
      ...obviously there is an public awareness of BigPharma behavior, and an agreeance to what that behavior is.

      So....when is somebody going to get the balls to do something about it?

      Food for thought.
      It's on my list. Right after I repeal the law of gravity. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

    A drug made from a plant known as “thunder god vine,” or lei gong teng, that has been used in traditional Chinese medicine, wiped out pancreatic tumors in mice, researchers said, and may soon be tested in humans.

    Mice treated with the compound showed no signs of tumors after 40 days or after discontinuing the treatment, according to researchers at the University of Minnesota’s Masonic Cancer Center. The research, funded by the university and the National Institutes of Health. was published today in the journal Science Translational Medicine.

    Drug From Chinese
    Buy plants now if you can find them. In a few years the derivative is going to cost everything you'll ever have in your life time and more, to get sufficient amounts to save your life.
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Sooo, research at a public university funded by a federal grant from taxpayers nationwide, suggests a possible means of eradicating some cancer.

    Great News!

    Then you get to the end of the article ...

    The researcher and his group have formed a company ...

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    From Wiki...

    Tripterygium wilfordii, or lei gong teng (Mandarin) (Chinese:雷公藤, Japanese: raikōtō), sometimes called Thunder God Vine, is a vine used in traditional Chinese medicine for treatment of fever, chills, edema and carbuncle.

    Tripterygium wilfordii recently has been investigated as a treatment for a variety of disorders including rheumatoid arthritis, chronic hepatitis, chronic nephritis, ankylosing spondylitis, polycystic kidney disease as well as several skin disorders.

    It is also under investigation for its apparent antifertility effects, which it is speculated, may provide a basis for a Male oral contraceptive

    Looks like it might also be used to remove the lead from yer pencil.


    Tripterygium wilfordii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It mentions possible applications for cancer treatment toward the bottom of the page.
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    • Profile picture of the author hirechrisgunn
      Well I totally believe it! You see, if it doesn't get some kind of crap patent on it by the time the western world acknowledges it, it'll just be grown with GMOs anyways...just cancelling out the process.

      Monsanto is the problem in the Western world, and people need to wake up. Over 93% of the food you eat is not real.
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by hirechrisgunn View Post

        Well I totally believe it! You see, if it doesn't get some kind of crap patent on it by the time the western world acknowledges it, it'll just be grown with GMOs anyways...just cancelling out the process.

        Monsanto is the problem in the Western world, and people need to wake up. Over 93% of the food you eat is not real.
        Many of us are awake, thank you. Our state of Vermont just put through a GMO label law, so other states will follow. We need states to stand up to MONSANTO because that nightmare SUES anyone and everything that gets in their way. Our gov has many of their execs embedded in key positions - including a judge that has never ruled against the company. There is action going on now for people to pledge money to any state that advances the labeling law to help fund lawsuits so they won't get intimidated out of their labeling legislation. I think it will go through soon. People here are more angry than the world seems to understand right now - and information about the GMO scam is spreading real fast right now. People are activating and they are talking - a lot. Stores are starting to react, too.

        We are fighting as we can and those that ARE awake understand it might just take all the individuals to say .....nope I'm not touching anything that has anything you produce even near it".

        Companies are getting extremely hard to kill off because of how well our corporate press covers up issues (corporate press only prints what is financially good for them). Generations of people younger than myself don't really understand the power of the boycott either.

        The good news is that when all the people that refuse to wake up and take action die off from the diseases they get from MONSANTO and their ilk's products - those against it will be a good size majority and we'll have a chance to bring them down. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Originally Posted by royalgalaxy View Post

    How to Prevent Cancer Naturally (link removed from quote) I found this interesting and natural
    Of course you did, its your own site.

    back on topic.. I'm sure there is a cure for a lot of things that we aren't being told about. Not just cancer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    I'm just waiting to see what happens when everyone realizes how much conversation one small comment on an old thread sparked.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      We keep talking about things that kill cancer cells. Cancer isn't a disease. It isn't caused by a drug, poison, venom, insect bite, germs, bacteria, or a virus. It isn't a pathogen. It's our own cells mutating. You can't catch it from other people. It's us. So a "cure" would almost certainly kill good cells as well.

      I haven't read much about this herb (if it's an herb)

      But what I have seen is this.....
      Every "natural cure" for cancer...has a great story about how someone discovered it in an exotic locale. It's always rare, and very difficult to grow or find. It's always very expensive. Always. And Big Brother always wants knowledge of this miracle cure to be contained. So there is always an enemy to fight. Usually Big Pharma, sometimes hospitals, sometimes doctors...but never alternative medicine believers. Never herbalists.


      I'm not saying this herb isn't a cure for cancer...I'm saying that the last 500 "cures for cancer" didn't pan out. I've just read the script before.

      And there is always a company (who puts out the press releases) that is the one selling it or manufacturing it. You know what would at least have the appearance of credibility? A real medical report put out by a research company that doesn't sell the stuff. And not put out by a blogger, company website, or made from anecdotal stories.

      I'm pretty old, and I've been around lots of marketing. Nearly every MLM company has at least one product that someone (maybe not the company) says is a cure for cancer. Even non-alternative medicines. You have no idea how many times someone (usually a customer) wants to show me their new "discovery". And then they lean over and whispers "I've heard it even cures cancer".

      After you've seen 1,000 shiny objects, the next one just doesn't dazzle as much.

      I wonder ...in three days...what the next "secret cure for cancer" will be?
      I hope we discover it before the "Next 100% guaranteed apocalypse".

      And there have been cures for plenty of diseases. Smallpox, polio...things of another age. Vaccines for lots of sicknesses....antidotes for lots of maladies.

      But most of them are not an herb ...with a great back story.
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  • Profile picture of the author webcosmo
    It`s been almost a year since this thread was started, and no miracle has happened with the chinese plant, in fact, never heard of it untill now when somebody revived the topic.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Claude - you can get rid of it. My dog was so advanced that he was almost done. I completely reversed it without any real problem - just took a long time because of the advanced stage.......not just guessing. The info is right on PubMed.....you just have to know how to research it. The deformation of the cells in tumors, etc. make it fairly easy for cancer to be killed. There are a lot of things that cause apoptosis in cancer cells that don't hurt a normal cell. We just aren't supposed to know that. People are so convinced that it can't be killed without things that are deadly to a normal cell. Brainwashing at its most dangerous.
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    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Claude - you can get rid of it. My dog was so advanced that he was almost done. I completely reversed it without any real problem - just took a long time because of the advanced stage.......not just guessing. The info is right on PubMed.....you just have to know how to research it. The deformation of the cells in tumors, etc. make it fairly easy for cancer to be killed. There are a lot of things that cause apoptosis in cancer cells that don't hurt a normal cell. We just aren't supposed to know that. People are so convinced that it can't be killed without things that are deadly to a normal cell. Brainwashing at its most dangerous.
      I know little enough about cancer except what I've already said. The part I disagree with is the "We aren't supposed to know" part.

      You mean that doctors know about ways to cure cancers and they are letting us die? Or do you mean that the knowledge just isn't widely known?

      I see a lot of nonsense. And usually it's from a lack of knowledge, not someone keeping it from us. But, I'll be frank here...I'm not interested enough to do heavy research on the subject. So I can't argue with some of what you say (or agree with it either. I simply don't know enough).

      But I'm a marketer and sales trainer. BS is my life. And there is a very heavy coating of it on some of these Off Topic Threads.
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

        I know little enough about cancer except what I've already said. The part I disagree with is the "We aren't supposed to know" part.

        You mean that doctors know about ways to cure cancers and they are letting us die? Or do you mean that the knowledge just isn't widely known?

        I see a lot of nonsense. And usually it's from a lack of knowledge, not someone keeping it from us. But, I'll be frank here...I'm not interested enough to do heavy research on the subject. So I can't argue with some of what you say (or agree with it either. I simply don't know enough).

        But I'm a marketer and sales trainer. BS is my life. And there is a very heavy coating of it on some of these Off Topic Threads.
        It's not that doctors know and are letting people die. It's more a case of the doctors not getting the proper information.
        The majority of doctors don't have the time or are in a position to be on the edge of cancer research. They rely on what information they get through journals and from pharmaceutical companies that produce the drugs and treatments.
        Their hands are also tied by what the FDA approves for medication and treatments.
        The problem is the relationship the pharmaceutical companies have with the FDA and A.M.A .
        The foundations that Kurt mentioned aren't really 'married' to the pharm. companies so they tend to include treatments and diets that are more cutting edge and not motivated by the pharm. companies bottom line.
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Phew, heated discussion, yep, my Mother went through the whole Cancer thing and came through with flying colours.

          Well, she had and operation and radio and chemo, and was out of pocket by about $10,000 at the end of it all!

          But as the doctor we were seeing said, she should have 70% success rate, or 70% chance of not dying of this!


          So, people saying that if something that was quick and cheap was developed, it wouldn't be used is correct!

          Doctors first action is to cure the sick, but Phar, co, first action is to make a big profit, and then cure!

          It shouldn't be, but it's the power corrupts thing. Reminds me of the video where a woman who was almost dead of incurable cancer, was asking the FDA panel, why couldn't she try this new cure that the FDA won't approve, that has a 97% success rate???


          They of course said we won't allow you to try this, because since the FDA won't test it, it could cause harmful side effects or even kill you! Da!!!!!

          In other words, BS!

          It was also interesting to note that one of the doctors on the panel of 3, who was human, was breaking down, with her plea, (probably because any intelligent rational human being would allow it).


          Which cure it better...

          the one that basically bankrupts you, and you probably wish you were dead at the end of treatment!

          The World's Most Expensive Drugs - Forbes.com

          Or something like this...

          Alternative Cancer Treatments

          I only had a chance to quickly look this site over, but if the 8 years is any indication, they probably have some, cheaper alternatives.


          As Sal has said, research it first then take action, or research it as much as time allows, (or get a family member to do it) then take action.

          But blindly trusting massive Phar, co, that might be legit or might be corrupt, is too risky in my book.

          Thorough research, and trimming down, will probably give you some much cheaper and probably more effective results.

          Shane

          PS IVF, in AU is a good example, if you are in a certain age group it can cost you $100,000 a year to do, and statistically doesn't make much of a difference over, getting fitter, cutting back on poisons, etc. But of course that it cheap, and makes sense, we can't have any of that???? :rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
            Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

            It shouldn't be, but it's the power corrupts thing. Reminds me of the video where a woman who was almost dead of incurable cancer, was asking the FDA panel, why couldn't she try this new cure that the FDA won't approve, that has a 97% success rate???


            They of course said we won't allow you to try this, because since the FDA won't test it, it could cause harmful side effects or even kill you! Da!!!!!

            In other words, BS!
            Shane; Let's assume the story here is as you stated. It isn't that the doctors want to let her die. It's that it's illegal to prescribe non approved treatments.

            But let's say that doctors get around that. Insurance won't cover it.

            But let's say that's not a problem.

            If the patient gets sicker or dies, the hospital gets sued and the patient's family will certainly win. The doctor (or two) may even lose their license and even go to prison.

            Medicine is big business. But it's also a highly regulated business. And for good reasons.
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            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Shane; Let's assume the story here is as you stated. It isn't that the doctors want to let her die. It's that it's illegal to prescribe non approved treatments.

              But let's say that doctors get around that. Insurance won't cover it.

              But let's say that's not a problem.

              If the patient gets sicker or dies, the hospital gets sued and the patient's family will certainly win. The doctor (or two) may even lose their license and even go to prison.

              Medicine is big business. But it's also a highly regulated business. And for good reasons.
              Ok, fair enough, but!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

              Sounds like she, or a sibling needs to find alternatives, with the highest provable track record on the planet and try that!

              And tell the Doctors or more correcting the Phar, CEO's, about this cure, preferably late at night, etc!


              So the FDA panel, are the head of the monster, and are the ones that slam the cheap, cures. And give the go-head for the sell your family home, BS!

              If they have ignored at least one cheap, and very effective cure, they have basically single hardly killed a large number of people, but they don't get carted off to prison for it!

              Seems if there is enough money involved, casualties are ignored. So what else is new!!!

              Shane
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              • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                If they have ignored at least one cheap, and very effective cure, they have basically single hardly killed a large number of people, but they don't get carted off to prison for it!
                Nor do anywhere near enough of these armchair doctards who provoke even the mildest doubt in the minds of cancer sufferers about which course of treatment to follow.

                I wouldn't even jail those people. I'd put them in a radioactive contamination zone until they developed cancer themselves, then see how enthused they are about being given their so-called cures instead of the orthodox treatments that help people into remission each and every day, while prolonging the lives of many more.
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                • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                  Nor do anywhere near enough of these armchair doctards who provoke even the mildest doubt in the minds of cancer sufferers about which course of treatment to follow.

                  I wouldn't even jail those people. I'd put them in a radioactive contamination zone until they developed cancer themselves, then see how enthused they are about being given their so-called cures instead of the unorthodox treatments that help people into remission each and every day, while prolonging the lives of many more.
                  LOL!!!! Yep, 70% of Doctors from what l have heard, wouldn't touch, the operation, chemo, radio, if they got it themselves. Say's a lot!

                  Make a great sales pitch, 30% of Doctors recommend this, and if you end up dead broke and on the street at the other end, tuff!

                  I would rather take what the little old lady, is doing in her basement, with a couple of years worth of data proving this it has a very high success rate, and nothing harmful, without being destitution at the end, than the easy to find BS!!!

                  But, l supposes Doctors can live with themselves, knowing that at the end of all this, 70% will go on living for 5 to 20+ years.

                  I suppose it is a bit like the red, blue pill thing, learn something radically new, and you can't go back! I think that if you discussed something you found with a very high success rate, they would probably use the FDA approved BS, to live with themselves and get around it!

                  I'd put them in a radioactive contamination zone until they developed cancer themselves, then see how enthused they are about being given their so-called cures instead of the unorthodox treatments that help people into remission each and every day
                  Hmmm, that is a bit harsh, l was thinking along the lines, of throwing them in a room, with an endless supply of tumored rats to eat over the barbecue. And inbetween the people who watched their loved ones die, or are now broke, get stuck into them, l would be on standby with a blowtorch and some icecubes!!!


                  But to go on the Doctors side, most are decent people, they just don't know about the unorthodox, treatments, or put the lot into quackery.

                  The ones that know that real alternatives exist, but bury it, are the ones, that are legally committing murder, and should be thrown in a cell, with the rats, or Churnabul?

                  I suppose the ones that spread the most negative news they can find and run it day after day, so people, (especially the old) will stay home and buy their s***, are in the same class. But at least they are only brainwashing people, not killing them! These people l would lock in a cell, with Mc Donalds for months on end; probably end up Mc dead, but at least the body wouldn't decompose! :rolleyes:

                  Shane
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                  • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                    Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                    LOL!!!! Yep, 70% of Doctors from what l have heard, wouldn't touch, the operation, chemo, radio, if they got it themselves. Say's a lot!
                    70%? According to what source?

                    It's funny how the charlatans talk like all cancers are the same, and thereby fail to acknowledge that certain types respond so well to orthodox treatments they're virtually considered curable.

                    Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                    I would rather take what the little old lady, is doing in her basement, with a couple of years worth of data proving this it has a very high success rate, and nothing harmful, without being destitution at the end, than the easy to find BS!!!
                    "Easy to find BS"? LOL!!!!

                    What's easier, exactly - years of strenuous education and training and a lifetime's devotion to research, or a couple of minutes hitting up Google for "truther" websites authored by incoherent, dubious experts whose only legitimate claims of excellence would be in scoring highly on a paranoia assessment?

                    On a lighter note, I've just finished a tally of people I know personally, here in the UK, who were left destitute after all that evil orthodox NHS treatment knocked their cancer into remission. Sadly - at least for you, perhaps - the total is ZERO. But don't let that ruin a perfectly good conspiracy theory.

                    Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                    But to go on the Doctors side, most are decent people, they just don't know about the unorthodox, treatments, or put the lot into quackery.
                    If, as you say, they're all fundamentally good but clueless folk, what reason would this "70%" have for turning down treatments that in their minds offer the absolute best chances of survival? Maybe doctors just don't have the same instincts as the rest of us?

                    - Mike
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                    • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                      70%? According to what source?

                      ***Published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology in 1987, 81 percent of cancer specialists would not consent to a drug trial due to the ineffectiveness of chemotherapy and its unacceptable degree of toxicity.


                      It's funny how the charlatans talk like all cancers are the same, and thereby fail to acknowledge that certain types respond so well to orthodox treatments they're virtually considered curable.

                      ***Yes, same can be said of the Medical industry. There are 4 cancers that are low risk and respond very well to chemo treatment. One being Hodgkins, which my father had. All the rest of the cancers have about 2% success...so what you and I get fed at the doctors office is "it has a 50% success rate!" and they achieve that number by lumping all cancer together to up the percentage. ...You can try to argue with me that this doesn't happen...just know I've been witness to it twice. Good luck convincing me otherwise.



                      "Easy to find BS"? LOL!!!!

                      What's easier, exactly - years of strenuous education and training and a lifetime's devotion to research, or a couple of minutes hitting up Google for "truther" websites authored by incoherent, dubious experts whose only legitimate claims of excellence would be in scoring highly on a paranoia assessment?

                      On a lighter note, I've just finished a tally of people I know personally, here in the UK, who were left destitute after all that evil orthodox NHS treatment knocked their cancer into remission. Sadly - at least for you, perhaps - the total is ZERO. But don't let that ruin a perfectly good conspiracy theory.

                      ***Hmm...lucky you. How many people did you have to tally up exactly? 1? I have a different perspective on that. I've had 8 family members die in the last 5 years....all of them had cancer....as soon as they went into chemotherapy they physically declined rapidly and died. My Father was the only one who made it through one 6 month round of chemo...then 2 years later the cancer came back, he was fine but decided to do chemo again to see if he could prolong his years....unfortunately his body succumbed quite quickly once the chemo started.

                      ...just wanted to offer a different perspective on the glorious wonders of chemotherapy.

                      So far chemo is batting 0 for 8



                      If, as you say, they're all fundamentally good but clueless folk, what reason would this "70%" have for turning down treatments that in their minds offer the absolute best chances of survival? Maybe doctors just don't have the same instincts as the rest of us?

                      ***Or maybe Doctors are so overly regulated that they really don't have any other option but to go along with the system, or they have become so indoctrinated by the medical industry that they simply don't know better. those are just about the only conclusions left to make in my mind...but I don't really know the answer either, and it has me scrathing my head ...but then you still have to factor in the FACT that..81% of them said they would pass on Chemo....and you have to ask yourself the deep question..."why is that?"

                      Keep in mind that not all doctors are on the same page either, there ARE those out there who have caught on to the benefits of natural remedies, and how diet effects illness.
                      - Mike
                      I know you are probably grappling with the idea that "People just wouldn't do something to other people if they know it harmed them.

                      ...Yeah I can understand that...but I think you would be giving people too much credit.

                      The sad truth is...people ultimately just protect themselves or get personal gain, or are motivated by the fear of loss... and at almost any cost, especially when they can either get away with it or be protected from it by the system. You cannot just assume that good people will always do the right thing, or stop the bad thing.

                      a simple example...recently there was a guy who fell of a train platform on to the tracks below, hurt himself and couldn't get up. There were like 80( I'm guessing from the picture) people on the platform....just looking at him and doing nothing....there was only one guy who finally went over got down there to help him.

                      The gist of it is...79 people knew full well "what the right thing to do was" ...but none of them did it.
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                      • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                        As for the whole "81% of doctors" thing, I can't help but feel someone's trying to pull a fast one.

                        Context is king.

                        First, it was a hypothetical question posed to specialists about a very particular type of cancer ("non-small-cell lung cancer").

                        Second, the question was about clinical trials. Not all patients receiving treatment take part in clinical trials.

                        Third, chemotherapy apparently has a very minimal impact on that form of cancer. So, balancing the risks and rewards, most of these specialists believed they'd turn down that specific treatment option if afflicted with that particular form of cancer.

                        (1) There are many different cancers and a number of different treatments. They don't all respond in the same way.

                        (2) Saying isn't doing. Faced with the reality of a situation, these specialists may well have chosen differently.

                        Since when did it become acceptable to twist answers given to a specific hypothetical question into a blanket argument against all orthodox cancer treatments?


                        Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

                        The gist of it is...79 people knew full well "what the right thing to do was" ...but none of them did it.
                        There are too many factors at play, I think, for this to be used as evidence for a paucity of ethics in the medical field. Passive inaction and active participation are different, in my opinion.

                        Truth is, if a madman leapt out of doorway down a busy high-street and opened fire at passersby, I'm not sure my first reaction would be to dive in front of the nearest child. Maybe I haven't watched enough Hollywood movies to develop that trait. Then again, I wouldn't be that madman; and I'd sooner take a bullet myself than shoot innocent people under duress for the chance of saving my own skin.
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                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                  Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                  Nor do anywhere near enough of these armchair doctards who provoke even the mildest doubt in the minds of cancer sufferers about which course of treatment to follow.

                  I wouldn't even jail those people. I'd put them in a radioactive contamination zone until they developed cancer themselves, then see how enthused they are about being given their so-called cures instead of the orthodox treatments that help people into remission each and every day, while prolonging the lives of many more.
                  So basically you'd give them the same treatment that doctors use to cure cancer to give them cancer, interesting.
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                  • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                    70%? According to what source?

                    It's funny how the charlatans talk like all cancers are the same, and thereby fail to acknowledge that certain types respond so well to orthodox treatments they're virtually considered curable.
                    I read about it online in some medical advise, couldn't find it, but l did find this...

                    Very good advise!

                    Would You Ever Use Chemo or Radiation for Cancer?


                    On a lighter note, I've just finished a tally of people I know personally, here in the UK, who were left destitute after all that evil orthodox NHS treatment knocked their cancer into remission. Sadly - at least for you, perhaps - the total is ZERO. But don't let that ruin a perfectly good conspiracy theory.
                    It isn't zero, it is 5 to 20 years success rate, but as the previous site shows, you may be using one evil to cure another!

                    If, as you say, they're all fundamentally good but clueless folk, what reason would this "70%" have for turning down treatments that in their minds offer the absolute best chances of survival? Maybe doctors just don't have the same instincts as the rest of us?
                    Their career??? Their high paying job, their 8 years of study?

                    All l am saying is that, the easiest option isn't necesscarely the best. To be honest l can't figure out whether you are 100% for doctor treatments or not?

                    If someone up the street offers a treatment for Cancer that is based on Chinese practices, and has verifiable years worth of positive data, l would look into that!


                    Instead of destroying it, or trying to, and hoping that it does the trick.

                    Considering the buried truth in other areas of our society, Fluoride being one, every individual needs to research this thoroughly, not just go for the easiest or most convenient option!


                    Thorough research, uncovers things, that the normal person is unaware of, that could help in a small or substantial way to their road to recovery.

                    Doctors still can't tell us what Cancer is, even after 60 years and billions of dollars, although small groups of doctors, are developing plausible theory's, (l can guarantee you that mainstream media wouldn't show it)!

                    Doctors can't figure out how our mind and body's work, although they are seeing a strong connection!

                    Doctors don't know everything! Research into some of their stuff ups are clear proof of that!

                    Results, research, side effects, cost, and how much the treatment makes sense, are important factors!

                    Shane
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                  • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                    So basically you'd give them the same treatment that doctors use to cure cancer to give them cancer, interesting.
                    Yep, pretty much. Locally targeted and controlled, it is hardly the same thing as exposing an entire healthy body to the kind of environmental radiation you'd get after a nuclear meltdown. Lasers are harmful, too. They can burn and blind, but last I checked they were also restoring 20/20 vision to countless people each and every day.

                    I don't doubt that very effective "natural" cures to many/most/all ailments - possibly including cancer - exist, and with lower risks and minimal side-effects, but the conduct of most people in this arena is questionable at best. Their tendency of flatly rejecting any and all positive data pertaining to orthodox treatments, while at the same time insinuating the entire profession is little more than a sleazy cabal of Josef Mengele types, quite frankly, is beyond ridiculous and hardly aids with credibility.

                    First, and at the very least, there are easier ways of making bank than working as pawns for a corrupt industry, no?

                    Second, given how governments in the west seem to be having a hard time controlling online activity and debate, it seems logical to expect that there'd be a few more white knights speaking out if things were as black and white as alleged by proponents of alternative treatments. Where are they all, and why is it the most vociferous among them are not only short of any medical background - much less one specific to the field of oncology - but are also rather curiously lacking even the basic cognition to formulate a coherent argument?

                    You also question why, amidst an injustice so grotesque all others would pale into insignificance, the immediate and overriding concern for most of these people also seems to be - yep, you guessed it - selling stuff.

                    Apparently, corruption owing to the profit incentive can be safely dismissed where these particular groups of people are concerned. Double standards?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                      Yep, pretty much. Locally targeted and controlled, it is hardly the same thing as exposing an entire healthy body to the kind of environmental radiation you'd get after a nuclear meltdown. Lasers are harmful, too. They can burn and blind, but last I checked they were also restoring 20/20 vision to countless people each and every day.

                      I don't doubt that very effective "natural" cures to many/most/all ailments - possibly including cancer - exist, and with lower risks and minimal side-effects, but the conduct of most people in this arena is questionable at best. I agree with you...too many snake oil salesmen out there to confuse the matter Their tendency of flatly rejecting any and all positive data pertaining to orthodox treatments,...well, except where Cancer is concerned there is precious little positive to support the orthodox treatments.(see table below) while at the same time insinuating the entire profession is little more than a sleazy cabal of Josef Mengele types, quite frankly, is beyond ridiculous and hardly aids with credibility.

                      First, and at the very least, there are easier ways of making bank than working as pawns for a corrupt industry, no? "Easy" is relative to someones circumstances. Just because easier ways can exist, doesn't mean they get to be the chosen path every single time. There are instructors out there who can teach ANY human being how to remember literally 80% of what they read or hear, and calculate massive math problems within seconds....you'd think it would be a no-brainer that these techniques would be taught in public school...but they aren't. Its not like the government doesn't know about them...there have been plenty of people who have pushed the issue...and yet...the clearly superior method of doing things is shunned, and we are continued to be taught the slow and clunky methods. Likewise there continues to be only a fraction of success with Chemotherapy, yet it continues to be pushed as the great cure.....even to the point of authorities forcing Parents to consent or lose custody.



                      Second, given how governments in the west seem to be having a hard time controlling online activity and debate, it seems logical to expect that there'd be a few more white knights speaking out if things were as black and white as alleged by proponents of alternative treatments. You just haven't opened your eyes wide enough, there are scores of people speaking out about their personal experiences, and there have even been court cases against real doctors practicing alternative measures where troves of patience fill the courtroom in his defense. Where are they all, and why is it the most vociferous among them are not only short of any medical background I can understand that someone might think this way if their only source is the internet, but I would venture to say that those people who are living cancer, or involved with people...who are actually talking to doctors and participating in groups...have more first hand knowledge that those white knights are actually out there. I can personally attest to you that this is so. much less one specific to the field of oncology .- but are also rather curiously lacking even the basic cognition to formulate a coherent argument?

                      You also question why, amidst an injustice so grotesque all others would pale into insignificance, the immediate and overriding concern for most of these people also seems to be - yep, you guessed it - selling stuff.

                      You make a valid point...however the standard has to be held on the other end too. the selling of Chemo Therapy is a billion dollar business.

                      Apparently, corruption owing to the profit incentive can be safely dismissed where these particular groups of people are concerned. Double standards?
                      While I can understand why you say the things you do...I would submit that you just haven't dug deep enough yet.

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                    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                      Yep, pretty much. Locally targeted and controlled, it is hardly the same thing as exposing an entire healthy body to the kind of environmental radiation you'd get after a nuclear meltdown. Lasers are harmful, too. They can burn and blind, but last I checked they were also restoring 20/20 vision to countless people each and every day.

                      I don't doubt that very effective "natural" cures to many/most/all ailments - possibly including cancer - exist, and with lower risks and minimal side-effects, but the conduct of most people in this arena is questionable at best. Their tendency of flatly rejecting any and all positive data pertaining to orthodox treatments, while at the same time insinuating the entire profession is little more than a sleazy cabal of Josef Mengele types, quite frankly, is beyond ridiculous and hardly aids with credibility.

                      First, and at the very least, there are easier ways of making bank than working as pawns for a corrupt industry, no?

                      Second, given how governments in the west seem to be having a hard time controlling online activity and debate, it seems logical to expect that there'd be a few more white knights speaking out if things were as black and white as alleged by proponents of alternative treatments. Where are they all, and why is it the most vociferous among them are not only short of any medical background - much less one specific to the field of oncology - but are also rather curiously lacking even the basic cognition to formulate a coherent argument?

                      You also question why, amidst an injustice so grotesque all others would pale into insignificance, the immediate and overriding concern for most of these people also seems to be - yep, you guessed it - selling stuff.

                      Apparently, corruption owing to the profit incentive can be safely dismissed where these particular groups of people are concerned. Double standards?
                      You are only reading information doled out by the medical industrial complex. They know now that chemo actually increases the likelihood that cancer will come back.

                      Don't believe cancer is about the biggest cover up ever inflicted on people? Read "The Cancer Cure That Worked: Fify Years of Suppression" It goes through every organization and every step taken to suppress sure and safe cure for the disease. Cancer isn't the secret that we are led to believe it is........at least at the top where the information flow is controlled (read: pharmaceutical moguls).

                      I once heard a SS agent say they didn't know what they'd do about keeping the SS drawing population down if cigarettes were illegalized. Yet these are people you trust? Kewl. Trust them. It's your choice, your body, your life. If someone tells you your only hope is to submit yourself to a treatment that the odds are a toss up whether you are still strong enough that it won't kill you before the cancer, you might do some ACTUAL research instead of assuming anyone who is against conventional treatment is a "conspiracy theorist". You can start that research right on pub med - ya know where all the major medical research is published. If you don't agree with their conclusions, you can write to them and tell them they are "comspiracy theorists" for not understanding that radiation actually heals. :rolleyes:
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                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                      Yep, pretty much. Locally targeted and controlled, it is hardly the same thing as exposing an entire healthy body to the kind of environmental radiation you'd get after a nuclear meltdown. Lasers are harmful, too. They can burn and blind, but last I checked they were also restoring 20/20 vision to countless people each and every day.

                      I don't doubt that very effective "natural" cures to many/most/all ailments - possibly including cancer - exist, and with lower risks and minimal side-effects, but the conduct of most people in this arena is questionable at best. Their tendency of flatly rejecting any and all positive data pertaining to orthodox treatments, while at the same time insinuating the entire profession is little more than a sleazy cabal of Josef Mengele types, quite frankly, is beyond ridiculous and hardly aids with credibility.

                      First, and at the very least, there are easier ways of making bank than working as pawns for a corrupt industry, no?

                      Second, given how governments in the west seem to be having a hard time controlling online activity and debate, it seems logical to expect that there'd be a few more white knights speaking out if things were as black and white as alleged by proponents of alternative treatments. Where are they all, and why is it the most vociferous among them are not only short of any medical background - much less one specific to the field of oncology - but are also rather curiously lacking even the basic cognition to formulate a coherent argument?

                      You also question why, amidst an injustice so grotesque all others would pale into insignificance, the immediate and overriding concern for most of these people also seems to be - yep, you guessed it - selling stuff.

                      Apparently, corruption owing to the profit incentive can be safely dismissed where these particular groups of people are concerned. Double standards?
                      Have you heard of this man? Burzynski Clinic | Advanced Alternative Cancer Treatment | Houston, Texas
                      When he discovered a cure for brain cancer he tried to bring it main stream. For his efforts he was twice threatened to have his license revoked by the FDA. In fact it got so bad there was a congressional hearing on it. When the FDA ordered trials they wouldn't test it at the doses the Dr. recommended.
                      Here's a clip from his documentary, you don't think it's about money?

                      Listen to what this father had to say about the Dr. before congress.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
                      Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

                      . Where are they all, and why is it the most vociferous among them are not only short of any medical background - much less one specific to the field of oncology - but are also rather curiously lacking even the basic cognition to formulate a coherent argument?

                      You also question why, amidst an injustice so grotesque all others would pale into insignificance,
                      the immediate and overriding concern for most of these people also seems to be - yep, you guessed it - selling stuff.
                      OK, after I looked up most of the words you said, it made sense.

                      Do you honestly think anything you say here is going to convince anybody?
                      Sure, you're shining a light...but you're shining a light into mud.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    The truth is, people are being cured of cancer all the time and at a higher rate than ever.

    Someone like Lance Armstrong, with testicular cancer (that spread), as well as basketball player Nene, would have been dead had they had the same issues in the 1970s. It used to be testicular cancer was an automatic death sentence, but it is being treated now.

    And, cancer isn't the only disease that kills. Advances are being made in a variety of treatments that are keeping people alive. When Magic Johnson announced he had AIDS/HIV, it was thought to be a death sentence. Yet, 20 years later he's alive and probably in better health than most his age.

    Not to mention the number of organizations dedicated to fighting things like cancer that aren't motivated by profit, such as the Jimmy V foundation, St. Jude's (Danny and Marlo Thomas), college research, etc. There's cancer researchers also have moms, dads, brothers, sisters, sons and daughters with cancer that some likely value more than profit...

    While it's provative to declare there's a conspiracy that wants to kill people, reality shows something different.
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  • Profile picture of the author Amanda786
    I have also heard about this plant and honestly speaking, such plants and medicines should be banned.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    What seems to be overlooked here in this thread is that in China, Chinese medicine is researched using the modern scientific method. Does prejudice and dogma in the West obfuscate genuine research findings in methods less likely to bring massive profits to the pharmaceutical industry? Sure looks that way to me. That said, there is a lot of bogus unscientific hocus-pocus "healing" quackery that is outright dangerous. Generally, I'd still trust modern Western doctors over most practitioners of "alternative medicine".
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  • Profile picture of the author Ephrils
    I agree with some other posters here that the disease, illness, industry is too profitable to cure anything here. We probably could have eradicated cancer yeas ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Originally Posted by Ephrils View Post

      I agree with some other posters here that the disease, illness, industry is too profitable to cure anything here. We probably could have eradicated cancer yeas ago.
      Here's a good rebuttal to that meme. There's a LOT of good points this guy makes about why this conspiracy theory doesn't make sense:

      But let's explore the logic of the hidden cure a bit further. Given that cancer is such a complex set of diseases, there is a vast and evolving science exploring the causes and behavior of cancers. This research takes place in numerous labs around the world. A cure for cancer would likely emerge from a collaboration among many researchers, in different labs and institutions, and even in different countries. Even if one lab made a significant breakthrough, it would be the capstone on top of a large body of research that was available to the entire community (and in fact the public). It would be impossible to keep other researchers from replicating the final steps that lead to a cure.

      Often the hidden cure conspiracy idea is framed around the claim that a pharmaceutical company would hide such a cure to protect their profits from other cancer drugs. This claim fails not only for the reason above but for a separate practical reason. It would take about 100 millions dollars of research (if not more) to prove that a drug was actually a cure for one type of cancer (let alone all types of cancer). Why would a pharmaceutical company spend that kind of research money on a drug they know they have no intention of marketing, just so that they can suppress it? Also - where would they do such research? How could they get past all the regulatory hurdles to perform human research without revealing what they are doing?

      Often those who claim that "they" are hiding a cure for cancer have only a vague notion of who "they" are. They generally have an image of the "medical establishment" as monolithic, but nothing could be further from the truth. The medical establishment is composed of universities, professional organizations, journals, regulatory agencies, researchers, funding agencies, and countless individuals - all with differing incentives and perspectives. The idea that they would all be in on a massive conspiracy to hide perhaps the greatest cure known to mankind is beyond absurd.

      For those who think the profit motive is sufficient explanation, not all of the people and institutions named are for profit. And what about countries with socialized medicine who could dramatically reduce their health care costs if a cancer cure were found? Is Canada, the UK, all of the European Union, in fact, in on the conspiracy to protect American cancer treatment profits? It's as if hidden cure conspiracy theorists forget that there are other countries in the world.

      Hidden cancer cure conspiracies also are premised on a simplistic notion of how medicine and medical research progresses. The practice of medicine is constantly evolving in a process of creative destruction. New technologies render older ones obsolete. Resources ebb and flow to diseases as they emerge and are reduced or cured. There used to be entire hospitals dedicated to the chronic treatment of tuberculosis - and now, after antibiotics, those hospitals have been repurposed. Researchers, specialists, hospital space, and other resources shift over time to where they are needed.

      If a cure for cancer were discovered it would not be as disruptive as is claimed by the conspiracy theorists. It would take years if not decades of research to explore how effective the treatment was for every type, grade, and stage of cancer. We could not assume that it cured all cancer even if it cured one type. And what about people who did not respond to the treatment, or could not tolerate it for some reason? (One might assume a 100% effective and side effect free cure for all cancer, but this gets progressively more unlikely.) Further, any real breakthrough cure would likely tell us something profound about the nature of cancer itself, and this would spawn entire research programs.

      Research funding and researchers themselves would shift their focus where it was needed. Some might shift their skills to other diseases entirely, and perhaps fewer doctors and researchers would go into cancer research if a cure were already found. As with any other significant medical advance, the medical infrastructure would adapt.

      Conspiracy theorists also tend to ignore the huge incentive to find a cure. For the researchers involved, it would mean fame, fortune, Nobel prizes and an enduring legacy within the halls of medicine. It is safe to say that it is every cancer researcher's dream to be part of the team that finds the cure for cancer (or at least as big a breakthrough as is plausible).

      The institution would also gain fame and prestige, which translates into more donations, better applicants, and also part ownership of any patents. A company that discovered the cure for cancer would make billions, even if it meant it would make existing drugs obsolete. Patents on drugs are finite, so companies are always looking for new drugs anyway. And imagine the public relations boon for the company that cured cancer - their name would forever be "Pharmaceutical Company - We Cured Cancer!" Even if the new treatment could not be patented, it would still be an enduring profit stream for the original company to market it - it would become their Tylenol, only bigger.

      And of course the health care systems around the world would rejoice at the potential reduction in health care costs, which are now threatening to cripple the system. Doctors, hospitals, researchers - pretty much everyone, is making less money than they were a couple decades ago because of rising health care costs. The system is now being threatened by further cuts and restrictions to tame rising costs. A significant reduction in overall costs, by curing an expensive disease, would ease the pressure on the entire system, and free up resources for other diseases.

      Finally, there is the human element. A hidden cure would require individual people to know that a cure for cancer is available but to deny this cure to dying patients in order to protect their or someone else's profit. There may be people in the world who are that callous and evil, but think of all the people who would have to be that evil, over years or decades, to maintain a hidden cure. These are people who also have loved-ones who are likely to get cancer at some point in their lives, and who themselves are at risk for cancer. I would not casually assume that the medical establishment is full with such cartoonish maniacal villains.

      Conclusion

      The grand conspiracy of the hidden cancer cure is a meme that I wish would go away, but for some reason persists. It is like an urban legend - it appeals to some ill-formed fear or anxiety produced by the complexity of modern society. It gives a focus to these anxieties, and gives the illusion of control. No one wants to feel as if they are being deceived, and so assuming there is a conspiracy feels like a good way to avoid being duped. But ironically it is the conspiracy theorists who are being duped, or who are doing the deceiving.

      The notion of a hidden cure is also dependent on seeing institutions with which one is not personally familiar as faceless and monolithic organizations, comprised of obedient drones. But these institutions are made of people - ordinary people with flaws and feelings and families just like everyone else.
      Science-Based Medicine » The Hidden Cancer Cure
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Here's a good rebuttal to that meme. There's a LOT of good points this guy makes about why this conspiracy theory doesn't make sense:



        Science-Based Medicine » The Hidden Cancer Cure
        Can you pick out the key word that reveals this to be disinformation?

        It's "drug". Cures for cancer are NOT drugs - that's why they aren't accepted by our AMA. Legalities.

        Everything I used to kill my dog's cancer was a form of human remedy - and I do not use the word "cure" because it's illegal to use that word in the US for anything but a drug - approved by the AMA and FDA. Period.

        Everything can be found in medical research on PubMed - from very reputable research labs and teams and Universities.. NONE of it has been edited for publishing in a medical journal, yet none has been refuted in peer review.

        I had a friend just killed by the medical community in the US and am not happy with this subject at all. At all. He chose alternative therapies. They know (if THEY read pubmed) how long it takes those treatments to work. They'd give him only enough to make him start feeling better, then cut him off -- to get more he needed more funds. When funds ran out, they refused to finish treating him and the illness spread. At last ditch, he got scared and got radiation. It killed him. Not happy about this subject at all. Now he's a statistic that says the therapy doesn't work - yet they never gave it, or him, a chance. It was a financial bleed from the get go. NEVER treat cancer in the US. unless you are doing it on your own and know every aspect up down and sideways.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Can you pick out the key word that reveals this to be disinformation?

          It's "drug". Cures for cancer are NOT drugs - that's why they aren't accepted by our AMA. Legalities.

          Everything I used to kill my dog's cancer was a form of human remedy - and I do not use the word "cure" because it's illegal to use that word in the US for anything but a drug - approved by the AMA and FDA. Period.
          I WISH that were true. The REAL definition of drug is:

          drug
          /drəg/
          Noun
          A substance that has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body, in particular.

          In other words, FOOD is a DRUG! ****THAT**** is why they say FOOD and DRUG, to make it CLEAR. And PROTEIN is a drug! Vitamins are a drug. etc.... THAT is why they passed the supplement act to EXCLUDE them from the FDA, etc...

          The interesting thng is that electronics, especially if it doesn't affect the body AT ALL, are NOT drugs, and the FDA says that if they even allow the ability to SEE effects, they can be controlled by the FDA! So a simple BLOOD TEST is treated like a drug. THAT is why I need a prescription to get a machine to see how long it takes my blood to clot, and why it must be FDA approved for PERSONAL use!

          INCREDIBLE!

          My point? The FDA is reaching where they were SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED, and special ruls had to b created to EXCLUDE them from other areas. THEY ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            I WISH that were true. The REAL definition of drug is:

            drug
            /drəg/
            Noun
            A substance that has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body, in particular.

            In other words, FOOD is a DRUG! ****THAT**** is why they say FOOD and DRUG, to make it CLEAR. And PROTEIN is a drug! Vitamins are a drug. etc.... THAT is why they passed the supplement act to EXCLUDE them from the FDA, etc...

            The interesting thng is that electronics, especially if it doesn't affect the body AT ALL, are NOT drugs, and the FDA says that if they even allow the ability to SEE effects, they can be controlled by the FDA! So a simple BLOOD TEST is treated like a drug. THAT is why I need a prescription to get a machine to see how long it takes my blood to clot, and why it must be FDA approved for PERSONAL use!

            INCREDIBLE!

            My point? The FDA is reaching where they were SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED, and special ruls had to b created to EXCLUDE them from other areas. THEY ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED!

            Steve
            Steve - I'm talking about legal definitions not Websters. Some foods have the effect of drugs, but they cannot PATENT it. They can can patent a derivative from something, but still have trouble trying to patent the whole plant if it is used in normally as a food or if the active element is in more than one food they just give up on it, too.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              Steve - I'm talking about legal definitions not Websters. Some foods have the effect of drugs, but they cannot PATENT it. They can can patent a derivative from something, but still have trouble trying to patent the whole plant if it is used in normally as a food or if the active element is in more than one food they just give up on it, too.
              I know, I was just showing how that is MEANINGLESS, ETC.... I am planning on writting a damning document in the main forum that will tie in with my idea here. HERE, for example, you have the FDA which is full of idiots that DON'T know about drugs, but are supposed to mostly forcus on THEM. And the USDA which is SUPPOSED to focus mainly of FOOD but DOESN'T! A current USDA bill was, and may STILL be, delayed because of WELFARE considerations!

              Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          Yep, it looks like society is enlightened, but do a little research and it is rotten to the core!

          It's the ones that think that society is basically decent, that blindly do what the doctors recommend!

          Usually for colds, broken bones, and viruses their recommendations are valid, but for other areas, especially if big bucks are involved the looking glass gets murky!

          Sorry to hear about your friend, Sal!


          This is getting a little off subject, but still valid; l was doing a little research on a power amplifying device, basically 1 volt in 10 out! Everyone who studied it, including the skeptics society of AU, agreed it worked. To my great surprise the AU Gov, even got on board, and offered concession's, etc.

          But they also seemed to be restricting distribution, to locally gov, funded areas, and probably military, etc. No mention of the consumer getting a hold of this????


          So, unfortunately it seems that in AU, they suppress this sort of thing, instead of what they do in the US, which is remarkably similar to the above video. Raid their workplace and disrupt their business, every 5 years or so.

          I am having my doubts, that the man on the street will ever hear about this, but time will tell?

          Shane
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        • Profile picture of the author DireStraits
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          When funds ran out, they refused to finish treating him and the illness spread. At last ditch, he got scared and got radiation. It killed him. Not happy about this subject at all. Now he's a statistic that says the therapy doesn't work - yet they never gave it, or him, a chance. It was a financial bleed from the get go. NEVER treat cancer in the US. unless you are doing it on your own and know every aspect up down and sideways.
          What constitutes a "fair chance"? What level of funding commitment for alternative treatments would have been acceptable for you to say he'd been given one? And what would you have said in defence of that treatment, and your own position on the matter, if/when he'd died in spite of it all? People do... even those to whom money is no barrier.

          Cancer has no conscience, and no patience for indecision. A lack of early commitment to any proven treatment is only going to diminish one's chances. You can't expect the beast to sit idly as you have a stab at different things, then revert back to orthodox treatments and pin all the blame on those. ALL treatments take time.

          By your own admission the disease was constantly worsening. The inevitable outcome of that, eventually, was death. And when it happens, you don't even allow for the possibility that the cancer killed him: clearly, surely, irrefutably, the killer was - had to have been - the radiotherapy.

          Unsubstantiated comments like that are a sure sign of fanaticism to some people.

          Apologies if I offend anyone, but I also wish people would stop using the United States' rotten healthcare system as a basis for theories and speculation about the suppression of cures/treatments. There's a whole world out there where things are done differently. And yet, insofar as cancer goes, the state of play is just about the same.
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Apologies if I offend anyone, but I also wish people would stop using the United States' rotten healthcare system as a basis for theories and speculation about the suppression of cures/treatments. There's a whole world out there where things are done differently. And yet, insofar as cancer goes, the state of play is just about the same.
            You do realize that those of us using the U.S.'s rotten healthcare system as a basis, live in the U.S., right?
            Did you watch the videos about Dr. Burzynski?
            Did you listen to the father describe what radiation treatments did to his daughter? Did you hear him say her brain was turned to mush by those treatments?
            Here's another article for you to read (not about cancer), that shows how honest and "above board" our medical system is here.
            http://www.worldpublicunion.org/2013...s-disease.html
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            • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
              Cancer is mutli-factorial process with a mixture of genetic, environmental and sometimes infectious factors involved. There are many different genes that can be involved in cancer.
              Each cancer is different, even if they are of the same type. Therefore, it is within expectations that some cancers may remit spontaneously without any treatment. There is absolutely no possibility that one treatment will suit all cancers. Different types of cancers will have to be treated differently and tailored to the individual, whether by conventional or alternative therapy.

              Current treatments are much more successful today than what people give credit for. Surgery alone completely cures at least 40% of cancers. If a surgeon completely removes a squamous cell carcinoma from your face, you will probably not need any further treatment. Conversely I cannot any justification for not carrying out surgery there at all. There are now many childhood leukaemias that can be cured by drug therapy. The number of leukaemia and lymphomas that can be completely cured has been increased by bone marrow transplantation.

              I did a short stint in oncology. It is well recognized that radiotherapy and chemotherapy are normally palliative treatments i.e. they may prolong life but do not lead to a cure. That is why many doctors would not choose to have chemotherapy themselves. When I was working there, I was given instructions to write in the patients' notes " DO NOT 888". What that means is that the resuscitation team would not be called if the patient suddenly stops breathing.

              I honestly cannot see any conspiracy by the medical profession to withhold effective alternative therapies from patients. A lot of doctors believe in alternative treatments. But it is just that there is not enough data to reach a definitive conclusion one way or another. Large scale studies involving alternative treatments are very difficult to set up and quite rare.

              The fact remains that each cancer is different. The genetic markers are different for each type of cancer. Any drugs that kill cancer cells will invariably affect healthy cells to some degree. You don't want to take a drug that will cure your cancer but will kill you at the same time. Something that will work in mice does not mean it will work in humans. or it will work but not kill you at the same time.
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              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                The fact remains that each cancer is different. The genetic markers are different for each type of cancer. Any drugs that kill cancer cells will invariably affect healthy cells to some degree. You don't want to take a drug that will cure your cancer but will kill you at the same time. Something that will work in mice does not mean it will work in humans. or it will work but not kill you at the same time.
                Derek when you look at the side effects of many of the cancer drugs in the US two side effects almost always present are death, and cancer.
                Recently a Talk show host here was cured of one type of cancer and the treatment gave her a different type.
                One of the major problems we have in the US is the FDA. Watch the video on Dr. Burzynski run in with the FDA, that's not made up or out of the norm.
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              • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
                Originally Posted by derekwong28 View Post

                Cancer is mutli-factorial process with a mixture of genetic, environmental and sometimes infectious factors involved. There are many different genes that can be involved in cancer.
                Each cancer is different, even if they are of the same type. Therefore, it is within expectations that some cancers may remit spontaneously without any treatment. There is absolutely no possibility that one treatment will suit all cancers. Different types of cancers will have to be treated differently and tailored to the individual, whether by conventional or alternative therapy. Yes, well said.

                Current treatments are much more successful today than what people give credit for. Surgery alone completely cures at least 40% of cancers. If a surgeon completely removes a squamous cell carcinoma from your face, you will probably not need any further treatment. Conversely I cannot any justification for not carrying out surgery there at all. There are now many childhood leukaemias that can be cured by drug therapy. The number of leukaemia and lymphomas that can be completely cured has been increased by bone marrow transplantation. Agreed, but its still nothing even close to good enough.

                I did a short stint in oncology. It is well recognized that radiotherapy and chemotherapy are normally palliative treatments i.e. they may prolong life but do not lead to a cure. That is why many doctors would not choose to have chemotherapy themselves. That certainly makes it more understandable...but it still doesn't let them off the hook for their answer...No matter how you want to angle the wording, ultimately they give something to patients that they wouldn't take themselves....so we should be asking WHY is that?...We should be asking, what WOULD they do instead?...but no one wants to ask those questions because it's just one more thing that makes it hard for the system to defend its course of actions. When I was working there, I was given instructions to write in the patients' notes " DO NOT 888". What that means is that the resuscitation team would not be called if the patient suddenly stops breathing.

                I honestly cannot see any conspiracy by the medical profession to withhold effective alternative therapies from patients. Likely because you do not know your history very well...here's a couple paths to hike down, just for STARTERS...go study the Rockefellers link to cancer research...go study what took place when apricot seeds got banned...read "Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher", by Gwen Olsen...go study the history of the FDA role in the legalization of aspartame. A lot of doctors believe in alternative treatments. But it is just that there is not enough data to reach a definitive conclusion one way or another. ...or alternatively...the data is manipulated or hidden(shrug)...(Why isn't that as valid a possibility as anything else?) I don't think anyone for a minute believes that the Doctors in the field are corrupt, but you do have to look at where the information came from that they were educated with. Where does their continuing education come from. Who ultimately sponsors this or that research. Often times it is difficult to get real answers the further upstream you go, but you still have to recognize a measurable influence that the upstream ultimately has on us at the receiving end. Large scale studies involving alternative treatments are very difficult to set up and quite rare. Difficult to set up...that claim makes no logical sense to me. I can't see the elements involved being any different, whether your testing a red pill or a blue pill. Seems more likely an excuse not to do it, for fear of results maybe, but that's just me I guess.

                The fact remains that each cancer is different. The genetic markers are different for each type of cancer. Any drugs that kill cancer cells will invariably affect healthy cells to some degree. You don't want to take a drug that will cure your cancer but will kill you at the same time....but that is the only choice we are given unfortunately. Especially when in many cases the authorities become forceful and threatening...let the doc pump the battery acid into your kid or we'll take the kid away from you and pump it in him ourselves. ...now that doesn't really seem like an honest effort to look at all sides and find what works does it. Its pretty clear they strongly favor a particular way of doing it, isn't it. That's not the behavior of a system that seeks truth. That's the behavior of a system that is being played. Something that will work in mice does not mean it will work in humans. or it will work but not kill you at the same time.
                ...yet knowing this, all our brilliant scientists go ahead and keep using the mice anyway?...this isn't reassuring heh.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by DireStraits View Post

            What constitutes a "fair chance"? What level of funding commitment for alternative treatments would have been acceptable for you to say he'd been given one? And what would you have said in defence of that treatment, and your own position on the matter, if/when he'd died in spite of it all? People do... even those to whom money is no barrier.

            Cancer has no conscience, and no patience for indecision. A lack of early commitment to any proven treatment is only going to diminish one's chances. You can't expect the beast to sit idly as you have a stab at different things, then revert back to orthodox treatments and pin all the blame on those. ALL treatments take time.

            By your own admission the disease was constantly worsening. The inevitable outcome of that, eventually, was death. And when it happens, you don't even allow for the possibility that the cancer killed him: clearly, surely, irrefutably, the killer was - had to have been - the radiotherapy.

            Unsubstantiated comments like that are a sure sign of fanaticism to some people.

            Apologies if I offend anyone, but I also wish people would stop using the United States' rotten healthcare system as a basis for theories and speculation about the suppression of cures/treatments. There's a whole world out there where things are done differently. And yet, insofar as cancer goes, the state of play is just about the same.
            You are not offending me. Many people are unable to intellectually absorb the fact that corporate pyschotics are completely fine with killing people en mass. Unfortunately, our 20th century murderous dictators are not the only sociopaths loose in society. It takes a bit of pychosis to get to the top in many fields. So you get these types overwhelmingly at the top of powerful agencies. The problem is after a generation or two of lies, those lies become the common thought of the field and are not really examined until things go out of control. That is the way suppression works. So you need only to look at the problem to understand that some sort of suppression has taken place. Why in the last 50 years or so is the rate of cancer exploding? We have almost a 50/50 chance of getting cancer in the US now.

            Smoking is blamed. Fact - 63% of Americans with lung cancer never smoked. If you do smoke you have around a 1 in 3 chance of getting cancer. If you don't smoke - you have the same odds. 1 in 3. In Japan almost 2/3 of men smoke, yet they have relatively no lung cancer there. So our propaganda is that it's cigarettes, yet logically defined.....the stats don't support that statement.

            Okay - that's beside the point but I wanted you to understand that we are working blind because those at the top like their funding. If you go into research done over years, you can find answers that have been buried. Until lately, it was infrequent that someone had the time and money to dig those answers out. We have the information at our fingertips now. Anyone can call me fanatic.......but I didn't "make up" my cancer treatments - I got them from 1. treatments doctors actually used that worked -- 2. pubmed == medical research by reputable researchers. It's all right there. It's a lot of work to hunt down what you need. But it's all verifiable and right there for anyone who is motivated enough. So call me a fanatic......ya can't call me a witch

            Now --
            A fair chance is for instance - if it takes 4 months to completely erradicate a cancer via an adequate dose of a substance - give 4 months of treatment instead of two weeks maybe? The price quoted and payment plan should not be for a PARTIAL dosage - it should be for cure. The partial dosage scam is merely making cancer as expensive and chronic as they can manage to make it.

            Herbals and food can work slowly. It took aroiund 7 months to get rid of Ricky's tumor - but I got to him very late on and was not sure he was savable that late in the game. Point though is - that if it's going to take months, why give just a few weeks treatment? That's bullshit plain and simple. If you are going to treat it - treat it, you don't tease with partial treatments knowing that the amount you offer can't work. In my book that is criminally draining someone's wallet while killing them.

            By my own admission, too - he had traditional chemo years before. Not sure which kind. Radiation makes a recurrence almost a given - if you live through it at all. Others sport high odds for return - higher than the AMA tells people. Sort through PubMed and you can find the studies that show these treatments not effective in the long run.

            Now - what I also said was that he was given "teaser" doses. Enough to slow it down, but not enough to stop it, so between him getting treatments, it spread. My friend was in a typical recurrence - he had the first before I knew him and treated it conventionally and it came back...okay -- now this time, the recurrence was lympnomia - extremely aggressive. He didn't have time to mess around at all. The usual prognosis for that from the stage he found it is only a matter of a few months. So there's no time. Yet he was going up to months between treatments that were only long enough to hinder its progress and slow it down a bit temporarily. If he was able to survive that long with what he had with only partial treatments - full treatments would have saved him I would figure.

            I can't tell you all of what I know about my friend's battle. It is extremely upsetting to me, though. There were things going on in his life I can't talke about that factor in quite heavily. So this is just a general discussion for me on this thread.

            I will say that, yes, I believe the radiation finished him off. He wasn't strong enough for that and they knew it. They irradiated his WHOLE HEAD. Sweet Jesus, they might as well just have shot him. They'd have been out some bucks they were able to get at the end, though.

            Now let me temper this........I think his mistake was made with his method of treatment the first time around. It was melanoma. So when it came back, it was deadly - lymphnoma Lymphnoma is usually the result of metastasis, from what I've been able to figure from stats, but I could be wrong. At any rate - once in the lymph nodes, you have not much time and you have a serious problem of that cancer being spread everywhere in your body very rapidly. Even with my views on cancer = that one kinda turns me white just to hear the word. The first thing that should be done is to get rid of that lump. Fast - I would not follow up with traditional chemo, but I'd sure be in getting that lump taken out - if they wouldn't do it, I'd cut myself.

            No way can you survive with cancer in a lymph node in your body as far as I can tell. It spews it around the body way too fast to control it. One area it seems to like to target from there is the brain. What I would do - get the lump removed then kill the metastasizing cells with natural cancer killers. Whatever anyone thinks of that - that's what I would do. Don't quote me as giving illegal advice. I'm just stating what I would do. When my sister found her cancer (breast), the first thing she did was talk to me and we hashed out everything I knew, everything her doctor told her - and sent a LOT of pubmed links. What she did is have the lump removed and then went onto natural killers and preventative measures (diet, exercise, land line instead of cell phone, NO GMO's in her diet etc). Her doctors are amazed. She isn't just a "survivor" she is thriving.

            So anyway - Come on. They are making 1000's of % profit, is it okay to kill someone just because your profit is knocked down to 100% - serious.

            As far as the issue that even rich die of cancer. That is valid and I've always wondered why someone would trust a medical community with such a shoddy track record when they don't have to. That just goes to show that money doesn't make people less susceptible to propaganda and information suppression. Look at the woman who didn't trust it - Suzanne Summers. She looked for other ways, had the money to afford anything she wanted, and she survived just fine. Of course that's only one person, I realize.

            In Germany a Doctor in the 80's was curing people with a special diet - you've probably heard of it "Gerson Diet". I used one element of that for my dog because it incorporated the fats that the body needs and the sulfur, too. Lack of sulfur is a very dangerous deficiency in the body. Because of the sunscreen scam, many people aren't getting enough -- when your body gets sunlight to produce D it also produces a cancer fighting sulfur. So why don't people know that? It's right in the research. Oh yeah. That research wasn't ever published for doctors to read. Face it - they usually only see what is in the journals, and that is edited when they get it. The most famous of the medical journals were on the lead of the culprits that suppressed the sonar cure that worked 100% of the time (discovered in 1938).

            There will never be a true cure for cancer in the US until healthcare is by legislation made a non-profit industry. Period. The cures are already all over the place.....they just aren't legal yet. Tell the healthcare industry they are now non-profit entities, and you will have fast effective cures falling out of the walls at you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              No way can you survive with cancer in a lymph node in your body as far as I can tell. It spews it around the body way too fast to control it. One area it seems to like to target from there is the brain.
              On the contrary, Sal - lymphatic spread of cancer is distinctly slower-moving than blood-borne spread, and lymph channels don't normally drain to the brain at all: it's blood-borne spread that characteristically leads to intra-cranial metastases. That's why the types of cancer which most often produce brain metastases tend, overall, to be the types of cancer that spread by blood and not by lymphatic drainage. (No big surprise, here, surely? Just think about the relative speeds and force which blood and lymph travel in their respective vessels in the body? Lymph moves very sluggishly, and mostly just through gravity - it isn't exactly "pumped round under high pressure").

              Absolutely no disrespect at all, and you and I of course agree about much of what's discussed in this thread (in which I'm now sorry I posted, to be honest, and I do usually stay out of them), but any first-year med student (not to mention anyone like myself who studies epidemiology and environmental medicine) would tell you that some of the scientific/objective statements in your post above are simply factually incorrect, here. Sorry!

              Many of us have various reasons of our own for feeling very strongly about some of these issues. The bottom line for me, on this occasion, was that I was simply not willing to let the statement "Cures for cancer are NOT drugs" pass uncorrected, because it seriously frightens me almost witless that people can not only genuinely believe that to be true but also try to get others to believe it, too. I'll stay out of it, now.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                On the contrary, Sal - lymphatic spread of cancer is distinctly slower-moving than blood-borne spread, and lymph channels don't normally drain to the brain at all: it's blood-borne spread that characteristically leads to intra-cranial metastases. That's why the types of cancer which most often produce brain metastases tend, overall, to be the types of cancer that spread by blood and not by lymphatic drainage. (No big surprise, here, surely? Just think about the relative speeds and force which blood and lymph travel in their respective vessels in the body? Lymph moves very sluggishly, and mostly just through gravity - it isn't exactly "pumped round under high pressure").

                Absolutely no disrespect at all, and you and I of course agree about much of what's discussed in this thread (in which I'm now sorry I posted, to be honest, and I do usually stay out of them), but any first-year med student (not to mention anyone like myself who studies epidemiology and environmental medicine) would tell you that some of the scientific/objective statements in your post above are simply factually incorrect, here. Sorry!

                Many of us have various reasons for feeling very strongly about some of these issues. I'll stay out of it, now.
                Respectfully - 5th year medical students also know the difference between Hodgkins and Non-hodgkins lymphoma. They also are aware of the correlation between non-Hodgkin lymphoma and lymphocytic leukaemia - which is what I am talking about, basically. It does get into the blood. I wasn't saying that the lymph drains into the brain, if that was the impression you got. I was just stating that the people I've known and read about, etc - end up with cancer in their brain. I was talking about Non-hodgkins. It also ends up in many vital organs - such as the liver. What, to me, is the real chiller about lymphoma is that you get TP53 mutations in free DNA with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. I know that you understand that implication fully well.

                Also understand - each country's medical systems differ. There are similarities but they are not the same. We have to remember that from country to country, when we talk about the medical systems we are not describing the same entities.

                Anyway - the person I am speaking of in particular in my posts had TP53 DNA mutations and developed lymphoytic leukaemia very shortly after the lump was found. I don't need to even start discussing that mutation with you as I know you have that info already. I'm thinking Mr. DireStraights might also understand those implications.
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            • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              No way can you survive with cancer in a lymph node in your body as far as I can tell. It spews it around the body way too fast to control it.
              I used to believe this. Many doctors believe it. In 2006 I was diagnosed with base of tongue cancer. There were several lymph nodes in my neck on both the left and right side that were diseased.

              The ear, nose and throat doctor had determined I'd had the disease for more than four years when it was finally diagnosed. And that was only because one lymph node had swollen to the size of a Big Mack, literally. That had happened four years prior to the diagnosis and it had been determined at that time to be something other than cancer. So the disease did its thing for more than four years before being diagnosed.

              Both the ENT, the medical oncologist and the radiation oncologist said they'd never seen a patient with lymph node involvement where the disease had been so miraculously contained for such a long time. The ENT told me that I had the most remarkable immune system she'd seen in 35 years of practicing medicine. She often reminded me that I should be dead. I ended up firing her. Really. Her bedside manner was awful.

              Everything worked out well though I went through some hairy radiation. There was no alternative as the primary tumor was as big as a robin's egg by the time I'd been properly diagnosed. Still, everything's cool to date.
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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Doctors don’t know what else to do, because we physicians are never taught in our medical training how to get a patient truly well from cancer – or any other disease for that matter. All we are taught to do is, 1) give harmful, poisonous drugs to cover up the symptoms of the disease and make the patient “feel” better – drugs that have numerous side effects that cause additional diseases, but never address the underlying cause of the initial disease which also continues to progress, or 2) cut out the patient’s organs or cut off their body parts. But no disease has ever been caused by a person having “too many” organs or “too many” body parts. That’s why cutting them off – or out – never cures the patient’s problem. The cancer will just come back in the same place, or a different place in the body, or the person will develop a different life-threatening disease.
                Yep, l agree overall, but she tends to hound on about diet, lifestyle, etc a and not give any details, unless you buy her book, (so she is Kippie-toing around acceptable behavior)!


                And also how someone who has a transplant used these drugs, but doesn't give any alternatives?

                I also don't agree that doctors don't cure anything!

                I am getting over a skin infection, that was caused by tinea letting in something that caused an allergic reaction. Although l still tend to think, that having tinea on my hand and touching something dodgy might be the cause?

                But anyway l didn't see a doctor,and after two weeks of hell, l finally went' she prescribed two doses of Penicillin, (over a few weeks of visits) and some cream, etc.

                Not sure whether or not the cream is doing any good, and since it can thin the skin, l thankfully only need another week of it.

                So, the point is, with the doctors help, my healing was accelerated by at least 20% to 30%. Which means a lot less suffering. So eventhough her advise is good overall, l feel that it is probably more one sided, so she can sell more books.


                So, doctors in some cases do fill a need in our society, but in others, greed has first place!


                But still some great info, here, and it's true, the doctors seeing my mother, said to book in for surgery asap, eventhough l figured the Cancer probably took years to develop and wasn't going to block anything crucial. Or she has plenty of time to research other options.

                Doctors being concealed you will try cheaper options and they will miss out on their wad of cash, probably has something to do with it?

                In Germany a Doctor in the 80's was curing people with a special diet - you've probably heard of it "Gerson Diet". I used one element of that for my dog because it incorporated the fats that the body needs and the sulfur, too. Lack of sulfur is a very dangerous deficiency in the body. Because of the sunscreen scam, many people aren't getting enough -- when your body gets sunlight to produce D it also produces a cancer fighting sulfur. So why don't people know that? It's right in the research. Oh yeah. That research wasn't ever published for doctors to read. Face it - they usually only see what is in the journals, and that is edited when they get it. The most famous of the medical journals were on the lead of the culprits that suppressed the sonar cure that worked 100% of the time (discovered in 1938).
                Phew Sal, you knocked me off my feet with that one, (l didn't know about that one). I heard that some doctors didn't like ramping up the SPI, (or whatever you call it) to 30+, and tradespeople on house roofs, don't get skin cancers, is all l have heard!

                Any more info, you could recommend on that subject; It may pay to start a new thread for that one, (might create some discussion).

                Shane

                PS, just read about a typical family who because two family members died of breast cancer and she had a B?????, gene, she should get them cut out!

                She did after having children and after a year of suffering, has turned the corner.

                Some people including doctors that are analytical in nature, (don't use intuition at all) are the ones who willingly go under the knife, or are in the path of a bomb blast, etc!


                That's the problem, few research it, so few realize the money grab in the background. All l could do is feel sorry for her, and hope that she doesn't research it. Probably develop suicidal tendencies, through depression if she did?

                But this article gets worse, it also said that if a woman at age 25 got them completely removed, her chances of getting breast cancer would be 10%.

                Hopefully others can see, how insane this remark is, obviously a gravy train for the doctors, but untold pain and suffering of the girls or women who believe this propaganda!


                Mutilate the general population, to make a quick buck, but reduce breast cancer so if can manifest somewhere else, as something else!

                This was in todays, 19,5,13 AU, Sunday Herald Sun, (large full page article, snippet, on front cover). Overseas members might be able to track it down online?

                They also made out, it wasn't that bad, and they joked about it, and it doesn't matter! Yep, doesn't matter if the doctors get an extra $10,000+ for this!!!

                In the meantime zero articles about how someone, found something that reduces cancer, or eliminated it completely, without the usual nasties!


                I won't go into rant mode, because l might be wrong about the media, but considering they are on a leash, about other important programs, l won't hold my breath!
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

          Cures for cancer are NOT drugs
          Apart from all those children whose leukemias are routinely cured by chemotherapy, you mean, Sal? All the ones who had a very-close-to-100% death rate until the advent of chemo, but now have quite high and steadily increasing cure-rates (given early diagnosis), without further relapses, recover fully and lead perfectly normal lives?
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          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            You will find that diet is a recurring theme amongst real self cured cancer victims....so why does the FDA behave in a manner to squelch things that go down that path.
            Just before my wife died from cancer we looked into changing her diet.
            Then during one of her hospital stays I questioned what they where feeding her.
            One of her doctors had the gall to tell me that once you have cancer, nutrition doesn't matter. I was "escorted" by security out of the hospital that day and almost arrested.
            That was also the day I started to really look in to our healthcare here in the U.S.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Ellis
    I don't know anything about this treatment or its potential, but claims like these pop up all the time. Yet people with power and influence (i.e. the filthy rich and heads of states) die just as quickly from these terrible diseases as the common folk. Wouldn't you think they could at least get a hold of some of this miracle stuff? In the end these stories do nothing more than provide false hope to people and families at the most vulnerable points in their lives.
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  • Profile picture of the author Moneymaker2012
    that's great!
    it will be a new revolution.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    I think it depends upon the type of cancer, but interesting story here:
    Dr. Lorraine Day's Personal, Official Web Site - Her Amazing Recovery from Cancer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      I think it depends upon the type of cancer, but interesting story here:
      Dr. Lorraine Day's Personal, Official Web Site - Her Amazing Recovery from Cancer.
      Thanks for that link, it was a great read.

      I saw some particularly noteworthy things in her article "Why Doctors Can't Cure You"...that echo the statements I made previously.

      (copy&paste)
      1. In some states in the U.S., thanks to the Drug Companies and the "lock" on doctors by their doctors' "union" - the American Medical Association - it is illegal for a doctor to treat any cancer patient with any method other than poisonous chemotherapy, burning radiation, or mutilating surgery. If they do, they will lose their license to practice medicine.
      2. Doctors don't know what else to do, because we physicians are never taught in our medical training how to get a patient truly well from cancer - or any other disease for that matter. All we are taught to do is, 1) give harmful, poisonous drugs to cover up the symptoms of the disease and make the patient "feel" better - drugs that have numerous side effects that cause additional diseases, but never address the underlying cause of the initial disease which also continues to progress, or 2) cut out the patient's organs or cut off their body parts. But no disease has ever been caused by a person having "too many" organs or "too many" body parts. That's why cutting them off - or out - never cures the patient's problem. The cancer will just come back in the same place, or a different place in the body, or the person will develop a different life-threatening disease.
      ...Here's some more interesting reading.

      USATODAY.com - Drugmakers go furthest to sway Congress
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      • Profile picture of the author Claude Whitacre
        Originally Posted by Doran Peck View Post

        [*]Doctors don't know what else to do, because we physicians are never taught in our medical training how to get a patient truly well from cancer - or any other disease for that matter. All we are taught to do is, 1) give harmful, poisonous drugs to cover up the symptoms of the disease and make the patient "feel" better - drugs that have numerous side effects that cause additional diseases, but never address the underlying cause of the initial disease which also continues to progress, or 2) cut out the patient's organs or cut off their body parts. But no disease has ever been caused by a person having "too many" organs or "too many" body parts. That's why cutting them off - or out - never cures the patient's problem. The cancer will just come back in the same place, or a different place in the body, or the person will develop a different life-threatening disease.[/LIST]
        Are you serious?
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Are you serious?
          You realize that quote is from Dr. Lorraine Day?
          Your Doctor Can't Cure Your Cancer Because He Can't Prevent or Cure His Own!
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        • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
          Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre View Post

          Are you serious?
          Those are the exact words of a medical doctor you quoted. ...and one who has successfully cured cancer to boot.

          I drew the same conclusions in her quote long before that based on other stuff I've seen, read, heard throughout my life...there is plenty more out there to corroborate it for the finding you just have to put in the effort.

          It certainly doesn't encompass, every single doctor, but we are looking at the big picture after all.

          The points within this thread that I am contesting are claims that there is no corruption in the medical industry, and that there is no collusion to push certain solutions over others.

          For someone to just say "I don't see any evidence of that" ...my answer is always going to be...its because you haven't looked hard enough yet.

          Do I think that the solution presented by the OP is a valid cure...no I'm leaning on the side of quackery.

          There are valid conclusions that some groups of doctors are coming too, that have so far been consistent.....one is that cancer has to have sugar to survive, and that cancer cannot survive in an alkaline environment. Both of those can be controlled through diet.

          You will find that diet is a recurring theme amongst real self cured cancer victims....so why does the FDA behave in a manner to squelch things that go down that path.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    You're talking about Anegla Jolie getting her breasts removed to avoid cancer? She's making a bundle for it -- she's wrapped up in some propaganda that some high hitting corporations are doing - using her to help - that will allow them to get patents for human genes. She's basically a shill and traitor for bucks. A lot of stupid women are going to follow her into that crap just because she's famous. You can't fix stupid.

    As far as sulfur -- in the Gerson diet it's created with a combination of ground flax (the seeds are too hard to digest so you have to grind them) and cottage cheese. Garlic also contains organosulfur and sunshine creates it in your body somehow - I think the process involves the vitamin D creation as well, not sure. I think it works with glutathione too if I remember rightly. Low levels of glutathione are typical in people with cancer. You can take L-glutamine to help the body produce more glutathione but with the new info about cancer fueling, I wouldn't use it. I'd use milk thistle instead - supports your liver and raises glutathione.

    I read some new research. It seems the body can switch fuel if it needs to -- from carbs to protein and fat. Cancer can't switch over - it has to have carbs. High protein consumption isn't that terrific for ya either but you can augment that by eating more veggies and taking high quality oils like coconut oil. I eat around 3 grams of that a day. Don't do fat supplements but do eat the coconut oil and ground flax. That seems a pretty important little piece of info to me. I wonder how many people actually feed their cancer instead of starving it?

    TravelinGuy - immune system is essential. My little guy Ricky is terribly allergic to fleas and he was almost in anaphylaxis from them when I first met him - it's the first thing I did was toss a benedryl down his throat and give him a very healthy bath with some betadine. So when I found out the lump he had was cancer and not an injury I wasn't surprised because I knew his immune system was tanked. Half of what I gave him for it was directly pointed at strengthening his immune system. Doesn't seem to make sense to try to kill a disease without building a solid immune system. You'll just get or stay sick if you don't have one.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      You're talking about Anegla Jolie getting her breasts removed to avoid cancer? She's making a bundle for it -- she's wrapped up in some propaganda that some high hitting corporations are doing - using her to help - that will allow them to get patents for human genes. She's basically a shill and traitor for bucks. A lot of stupid women are going to follow her into that crap just because she's famous. You can't fix stupid.
      Arrr, no! This was another unknown couple, that had a 2 page special report, (sorry couldn't find it online).

      And as said before some of the things they said, were pretty insane, explains why the Fluoride and other suppressive crap is rampant, so no one questions this nonsense.

      Soylent Green will be on sale soon!!!! :rolleyes:


      The Angela Jolie thing is interesting, l am surprised that someone like that with money and power wouldn't research all options first????

      I would tend to believe that she believes in doctors, and unmistakably is helping their cause. I have trouble believing that she knows that its a crock, but needs the money, (she could just sell a mansion or make another movie). But once they are gone, there gone!


      I remember Kylie Minogue, when she got breast cancer checked herself in for the usual procedure. So it obviously doesn't matter how wealthy you are, some will go that way; and as you said before, many women will do the same, unfortunately!

      No doubt the rest who go for alternatives, with great results, are ignored by the media.

      Is it just me or does this sort of crap seem to be getting worse lately? It is like this and other areas, are at breaking point in regards to the masses finding out the truth? And the socialpaths know this, so they are paying off the media to run, totally insane almost front page articles about cutting up healthy people so they don't get sick!

      Sounds like in medicine especially, these alternative treatments are getting out quicker than they would like, so they are grasping more and more at ridiculous ideas, in order to continue to make large profits, so the whole thing doesn't fall in a heap!

      I also read about nurses getting tired of harassment, and bullying, etc in hospitals in AU, and wanting more safeguards in place, so if someone has a fit, they can press a button and let security deal with them.

      No, wonder, your loved one goes there, and you confront a doctor or nurse about whether this course of action is necessary, or harmful, from the solid research you have done?

      No doubt they would give fluff answers, and a brawl would happen!

      We may see some light at the end of this tunnel, but it may become more insane first. From what l read today, society is turning into a mental asylum, with a group of socialpaths turning up the heat!

      And as more and more people find successful alternatives online, and leave doctors, the more insane the media reports will become. Makes sence, Cancer is a billion dollar a year business, so if there is a obvious drop in massive profits, they will find a new way to spin Cancer, to make even bigger profits. I hope and pray that l don't read about some 25 year old, healthy girl going under the knife, becuase of the Anegla thing, that would make me physically sick!!!


      Shane

      PS. diet is one aspect, but managing stress, and mental attitude is also important!

      PPS no doupt when the truth is known, and the medical profession, and Phar, co, are dragged through the courts, it will probably take a good 100 years to deal with this mess! I won't be watching, too depressing!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I didn't say she NEEDED money - I just said she got a bundle of it. If people don't wake up to what she did this for in reality, those companies might get away with patenting human genes and that will be the onset of a real nightmare.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Interesting thread. Clearly, people are passionate about this subject. So am I. I lost my 20 year old sister to rhabdomyosarcoma back in 1997. She was given 6 months to live, she made it to 3 years. She was in remission for one year and when the cancer came back, it came back very aggressive and all the conventional chemos did not slow it's growth down.

    Ever since her death I've read a lot about cancer cures, cancer research, studied what actually goes on in our medical community and more recently, watched documentaries like FOOD MATTERS, FOOD INC., and HUNGRY FOR CHANGE. Though I don't believe everything I read, see, or hear, websites like DrMercola.com and DoctorYourself.com have some very compelling information on this very topic.

    It makes me wonder why in the USA that the only legal way to treat cancer is through chemo, radiation, or surgery. That's it. If you offer anything else, then it's considered against the law. Even if there's is documented proof of better survival rates (cancer survivor rates are only calculated up to 5 years, so if you die in your 6th year, you are still considered a "cancer survivor").

    I understand that some of these laws have to be made to protect people from charlatans (there are plenty of them), but there doesn't seem to be enough done to put more research into something as simple as the effect of a plant-based diet on different types of cancers.

    The kind of food they served in the hospital to my sister was severely lacking in nutrition. So we brought her food from home. Don't even get me started on the HMO that covered her wanted to stop her treatments and we had to fight them for every penny. They weren't interested in helping my sister, they just viewed her as a cost. This made me angry beyond words.

    Doctor's study very little about nutrition and according to FOOD MATTERS, only about 5% of medical doctors get any level of nutritional training. Thank goodness there are more doctors that are beginning to take a more holistic approach to fighting cancer, whereby nutrition is a major part of therapy, though it's not near where it should be.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    There will likely never be a single silver bullet for all cancers. Too many variables such as individual differences, location of the cancer, type, when discovered, how advanced, how aggressive...

    If I or a loved one had to deal with cancer, I'd likely take the approach I've seen in compelling ads, here in the US, for cancer treatment centers that take a multi prong approach to treating cancer. Mind, body, nutrition, spirit and Western and Eastern Med. They are staffed by MDs, naturopathic docs, and other credentialed health practitioners. This is the link to the organization that I've seen the advertisements for and I don't know enough about them to fully endorse and I am not affiliated in any way:
    CTCA Cancer Treatment Centers & Hospitals | Integrative Cancer Care

    I know there are other similar centers, and probably an integrative approach available through many University hospitals (Anschutz Center/University of Colorado) in Denver, CO for example), or non University hospitals. Again, I only know a little about what is available in the USA, but treatment does seem to be getting more holistic.

    Finally, absent an emergency and if there is time, we can choose another DR/team if we don't like who we are dealing with. When my father had serious heart episodes, there was a physician I wanted to punch out for the way he spoke. His second team at a different hospital was far, far - seemed like decades ahead -superior in knowledge, competency, technique, and technology than the first team. The first team was supposed to be one of the best in the state at that time. Both teams were at traditional hospitals operating within the FDA and all other regulatory frameworks. There are different levels of competency in any field and we can chose who we want.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      There will likely never be a single silver bullet for all cancers. Too many variables such as individual differences, location of the cancer, type, when discovered, how advanced, how aggressive...

      If I or a loved one had to deal with cancer, I'd likely take the approach I've seen in compelling ads, here in the US, for cancer treatment centers that take a multi prong approach to treating cancer. Mind, body, nutrition, spirit and Western and Eastern Med. They are staffed by MDs, naturopathic docs, and other credentialed health practitioners. This is the link to the organization that I've seen the advertisements for and I don't know enough about them to fully endorse and I am not affiliated in any way:
      CTCA Cancer Treatment Centers & Hospitals | Integrative Cancer Care

      I know there are other similar centers, and probably an integrative approach available through many University hospitals (Anschutz Center/University of Colorado) in Denver, CO for example), or non University hospitals. Again, I only know a little about what is available in the USA, but treatment does seem to be getting more holistic.

      Finally, absent an emergency and if there is time, we can choose another DR/team if we don't like who we are dealing with. When my father had serious heart episodes, there was a physician I wanted to punch out for the way he spoke. His second team at a different hospital was far, far - seemed like decades ahead -superior in knowledge, competency, technique, and technology than the first team. The first team was supposed to be one of the best in the state at that time. Both teams were at traditional hospitals operating within the FDA and all other regulatory frameworks. There are different levels of competency in any field and we can chose who we want.

      Dan
      Arrr, looks like same dog, different fleas, but at least after the surgery, etc they take better care of you!

      And they seem to minimize the damage!

      I personally would research this subject thoroughly, and after weeks or months of effort scouring the globe whittle down the most likely ones that have real proof of survival rates.

      Then check into them more thoroughly! I saw some Natarpaths in there as well, overall good, but they can offer things that may be ineffective with conventional medicines!

      So, they would need to be researched as well. Arrrgggg .


      But it does show that if doctors in the US, are going this way, then obvious drops in revenue must be happening!

      Not surprising, if an individual has to pay $10,000 up to $200,000 for a treatment. A little online research, to see if anything else is available, can save a lot of money, as well as pain and your life!

      Shane

      PS had to take my Mother in today for a checkup, thankfully she is clear, but on the way back to the car, had a fall and had to be treated there. While l was waiting near the Chemo, ward, l overheard some nurses talking about Chemo and Blood transfusion treatment!

      I also heard that they said that one of the treatments gave them more money???

      I thought it was probably more perks from Chemo, or that Chemo is more profitable, so we should push that one more!

      I really feel for nurses that have to play along with this crap, and l have talked to one, that is also in alternative therapies, she couldn't wait to quit her job, and the Doctors she had to work for! :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Spread of a solid tumor to lymph nodes is considered as middle stage cancer as opposed to spread to other organs (metastases) which is considered to be late stage. It is definitely possible to cure a person whose cancer has spread to the surrounding lymph nodes only. There are also cases where patient with late stage cancer had recovered but that is extremely rare. So again it boils down to the type of cancer, the stage where it is at, the individual cancer and the patient himself.

        I do not believe there is any law anywhere in the world prescribing what treatments to use for what illnesses. Obviously, you will have less professional backup if you used a rare treatment and are sued for it. Medical students and trainee specialists are taught what is current practice at the time. They are taught to keep an open mind and base their decision on currently available date and audits of their treatments. For example, lobotomy (cutting out piece of the brain) used to be a common treatment for mental illness and a Nobel prize was given for it. Nowadays, no psychiatrist in the right mind would recommend it. Any medical student could see that the way that Dr. Lorraine Day presented her views is wrong i.e. through a website and ebook. She also said a lot of things about the cause of SARS and bird flu that I completely disagree with and that is my specialty.
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        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
          I do not believe there is any law anywhere in the world prescribing what treatments to use for what illnesses.
          Don't believe or don't want to believe?
          Derek come the the U.S. and try to treat someone with anything that isn't FDA approved and see where it gets you.
          Do I really have to post that video again showing what Dr. Burzynski went through with the FDA?
          We just had an incident in California where two parents had their child taken from them because they went to a second hospital to get a second opinion. The first hospital turned her in saying they refused their treatment, when they just wanted a second opinion.
          Sadly things like that are getting common here.
          My youngest was given a bottle of liquid fluoride to add to her son's formula after he was born and told if she didn't add it to the formula she would loose her son to the state for child neglect.
          I can understand with you being a doctor trying to defend the medical system, but it's not the same system here as it is there.
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          • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

            Don't believe or don't want to believe?
            Derek come the the U.S. and try to treat someone with anything that isn't FDA approved and see where it gets you.
            Do I really have to post that video again showing what Dr. Burzynski went through with the FDA?
            We just had an incident in California where two parents had their child taken from them because they went to a second hospital to get a second opinion. The first hospital turned her in saying they refused their treatment, when they just wanted a second opinion.
            Sadly things like that are getting common here.
            My youngest was given a bottle of liquid fluoride to add to her son's formula after he was born and told if she didn't add it to the formula she would loose her son to the state for child neglect.
            I can understand with you being a doctor trying to defend the medical system, but it's not the same system here as it is there.
            Thom, the medical system in the US is known to be very unusual compared to the rest of the world for a number of reasons.

            1. Almost 100% private practice
            2. Different states have their own rules
            3. Insurance companies have a say on what treatment is suitable and what is not
            4. An extremely high rate of medical litigation that results in doctors being very defensive. This often results in very aggressive treatments being recommended, such as that Angeline Jolie took.
            5. Also, you have got pharmaceutical companies trying to bribe doctors into using their drugs all the time.

            If a treatment is not FDA approved, obviously the doctor is on shakier ground but I still don't think it is illegal. For example, there are only two drugs approved for autism and it does not stop psychiatrists from prescribing a whole load of unapproved drugs for it in the US. Similarly, LASIK machines are used for vision corrective treatment well beyond that approved by the FDA in the US. There are lots of other examples I can think of as well in the case of infectious diseases. I would be surprised if cancer is a special case.

            Concerning the Burznski case, I don't know much about it. But a search on the Internet will review a lot of complaints about his treatments and the film itself. If the information in the Wikipedia is correct, I think the FDA does a good case as their prime directive is for safety. There are a number of issues involved. seem to be that there are no credible scientific explanation on how antineoplastons work. Moreover, his results could not be replicated by other people.

            Burzynski Clinic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            "The clinic has been the focus of much criticism due to the way its unproven antineoplaston therapy is promoted, the costs for cancer sufferers participating in "trials" of antineoplastons, significant problems with the way these trials are run, legal cases brought as a result of the sale of the therapy without board approval, and for other causes.

            There is a scientific consensus that antineoplaston therapy is unproven and of little promise in treating cancer. Clinical trials initiated in 1993 and sponsored by the National Cancer Institute were closed due to inability to recruit qualifying patients, and a Mayo Clinic study found no benefit from antineoplaston treatment.[1] Some sixty phase 2 clinical trials and one Phase 3 trial have been registered by Burzynski since the mid-1990s, but no results have been published. The Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center has stated: "Bottom Line: There is no clear evidence to support the anticancer effects of antineoplastons in humans."
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            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
              Derek if you watch his documentary it shows how the FDA fought him all because he had the patent on it. As far as not being duplicated, the the studies the FDA authorize where not at the doses that the Dr. was using.
              "The clinic has been the focus of much criticism due to the way its unproven antineoplaston therapy is promoted, the costs for cancer sufferers participating in "trials" of antineoplastons, significant problems with the way these trials are run, legal cases brought as a result of the sale of the therapy without board approval, and for other causes.
              But yet our whole state approved medical system here is under much criticism for the treatments they use and promote. At least he is actually trying to cure people as opposed to just giving them treatments that are only designed to prolong the life, if you can call the agony the person goes through a life.
              Unfortunately the FDA has turned into an agency who's sole purpose is to protect the profits of the corporations that pay them off for faster drug approval and the companies that populate their ranks in the food division.
              Keep in mind this is the same agency that is allowing for aspartame to be added to milk so it will be sweeter and kids will then drink more of it. Great move for the company who makes aspartame, sucks for us.
              Oh and the milk doesn't have to be labeled as containing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Yep FDA - the good agency that banned Aspartame twice - but because Rumsfeld has position and money, it was reinstated as "harmless"? The same agency that allowed a chemical in our sunscreens that the rest of the world has banned (starts with A, can't remember the name), and with enough pressure over the danger of the chemical finally banned it - but gave it a year to go into effect so the manufacturers could sell off their toxic supply to humans who could die from it. Yep. Great organization. One of the ex Monsanto execs now runs it. The last guy that held the position was told he had to quit performing experiments on babies (spraying them with toxic chemicals to find the effects) to get the position because his experiments were becoming known and were pissing people off. The same FDA that also approves untested drugs and just pulls the okay for them if enough people are maimed and killed that they start getting flack. (Remember - it's the same agency that okayed the drug that pulls it).

    Our FDA is a joke. It is funded by the same companies that it is supposed to protect us from. If I decided to go to a doctor for cancer - I'd sure be buying a plane ticket out of the US to do that one. All of our really good doctors are going to India where they are allowed to actually cure people when they know how.

    I usually don't go to a doctor for my illnesses - except for diagnosis if I can't figure out what's going on. I was on a drug when I was a teen that was just horrible - and when I got to Germany found out it was an experimental drug and making me sicker. Fun stuff huh? When I was given a death sentence diagnosis, I just stayed away from our "professionals" and took care of myself. I've been dead now for 26 years according to them. If I'd gone for the treatment they wanted me to get, I'd not be here writing this. I sure know that one for a fact.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      But yet our whole state approved medical system here is under much criticism for the treatments they use and promote. At least he is actually trying to cure people as opposed to just giving them treatments that are only designed to prolong the life, if you can call the agony the person goes through a life.
      Unfortunately the FDA has turned into an agency who's sole purpose is to protect the profits of the corporations that pay them off for faster drug approval and the companies that populate their ranks in the food division.
      Keep in mind this is the same agency that is allowing for aspartame to be added to milk so it will be sweeter and kids will then drink more of it. Great move for the company who makes aspartame, sucks for us.
      Oh and the milk doesn't have to be labeled as containing it.
      Hmmm, l found a good example of so called treatments for cancer!

      It was in a AU daily paper, about Catskans, saying that they, if used on teenagers or kids., would slightly increase their chances of getting cancer later on in life!!!!

      So discretion had to be used.

      But people getting over Cancer either have low level radioactive material injected into them, or x rays blasted at the infected area!

      Doctors say that is ok, as the damaged cells, will usually heal themselves. Although with the above info, it clearly also causes long term damage to healthy cells!


      So operations, Chemo and especially Radio, (radiation therapy) are designed to prolong life, not cure. I suppose that if a 90 year old went through all this and got another 10 years, and died of the radiotherapy, instead of seeking out alternative treatments, and getting 25 more years of life, that would be considered a success!

      A very expensive stall tactic!!!

      But at least the same paper that put the insane mutilate all teenagers, to cure breast cancer, article a few days ago, put this article in.

      I think that a lot of people would think, hang on, CT scans also use x rays, and they do use radioactive material, so isn't this like using a baseball bat to fix a leaky drain. And the drain eventually springs a leak as a result???? :rolleyes:

      Maybe the editor get paid off by a Phar, co, and put the weird article up to drum up more business?


      But l am being a bit pessimistic, the above lady which at 100 is old and frail, might be able to get targeted radiation, ect therapy, to get rid of the cancer the first cure tried to fix. Then if she survives another 10. Then get some more suffering to prolong her life, from the first time! Then the next time, if she is still alive, would think, forget it!!! Enough! Go on a holiday, and find another cure!

      As some other articles have said, by the time you notice it, the cancer had gone through your entire body, so getting booked into an op, asap, is probably a money grab, more than anything!

      Unless it is going to block your heart at any time, then it is probably necessary?

      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Yep, briefly read about Angelia in the Times mag, at the Grocery store.

        She after her mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she was told by doctors that since she has the B**** cromosome, she had a 87% chance of getting it, she decided to get it done!

        The other disturbing fact was 35% of women got this done, after being told!


        The scary thing about this, is if the doctors are wrong, (which they probably are) this is unnecessarily surgery!


        To state my point, a Current Affair, AU, has a report this week about someone who had both breasts removed, and her breast cancer came back!!!!

        Great go through all that and it might make no difference. This could be a low statistical occurence, but it raises the point that chemo, radio and surgery long term, may not be the best option. And if it creates more of it, you are taking a couple of painful steps forward, and some back!


        Some, like Angelia, will just blindly trust doctors, and if they do have their hands out, and there is something dodgy going on, hen they could be in for a very nasty surprise one day!


        If the doctors say have surgery, and the cancer isn't life threatening, then research other options with high success rates to death first.

        Radical surgery, etc is a last resort!


        Shane
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        • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
          I totally agree what Angelina Jolie did was wrong. For a start, even if she develops cancer, the chances are time the methods available for treatment would be far more advanced than now. I know a relative who has had breast cancer for decades. I know another relative who was actually cured of metastatic ovarian cancer. This is probably one example where the medical practice in the US is very different to the rest of the world. Mastectomy for breast cancers were already rarely carried out in the UK more than twenty years. The preferred treatment is a lumpectomy followed by radiotherapy.

          I am aware of the allegations against the FDA concerning collusion with pharmaceutical and companies providing medical equipment. One example is Lasik equipment where FDA has been accused of approving the use of some equipment irresponsibly. This is certainly true in other countries as well. China executed the head of their equivalent of FDA recently for corruption. However, the FDA is a very large organization and it doesn't mean the whole organization is corrupt. The FDA is one of US organizations that is respected the world over by medical professionals.

          I used to be a specialist in virology which is a very research based specialty. We cannot go by information in Wikipedia let alone documentary programs, who ever it is made by. It is basically all data and statistics. Since statistics can be very complicated, it is common for universities to employ a medical statistician to look at the data. Obviously, for very rare diseases, it is not possible to carry a study with enough subjects that will be statistically valid. In that case, some times, doctors have to rely on anecdotal reports of successful treatment. One thing that conventional medicine is keen is there should some explanation of the possible mechanism involved in treatment.

          Basically, the dividing line between conventional and alternative treatments is much thinner and blurred than most people. You will almost never get 3 doctors in a specialty to completely agree on a treatment plan for many illnesses. There are lots of treatments being used today that should be used at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I am sure we will see a cure in our lifetimes GEN X peepz.

    I really hope so, I lost someone close to me last year from this deadly disease, and I just hate it.

    The worst thing about cancer is it takes the patient their pain is gone, but the people they leave behind go through the mental pain! which is so horrible.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      I totally agree what Angelina Jolie did was wrong. For a start, even if she develops cancer, the chances are time the methods available for treatment would be far more advanced than now. I know a relative who has had breast cancer for decades. I know another relative who was actually cured of metastatic ovarian cancer. This is probably one example where the medical practice in the US is very different to the rest of the world. Mastectomy for breast cancers were already rarely carried out in the UK more than twenty years. The preferred treatment is a lumpectomy followed by radiotherapy.
      Yep, that is what l don't get? If it has taken at least 5 years to develop breast cancer to the point where it is detectable, then the body has the nasty cancer cells running around for 5 or more years, which means unless it is going to block your heart, etc and kill you soon, surgery isn't an asap proposition.


      Doctors seem to be scared that you will find something else and ditch their methods!


      The doctor that treated my mother was carrying on about getting it done in a few weeks time. And was persistent every time she went to see him in that time!


      This week there are or were, two tv reports on the lady above who went through all that and got it again. And three sisters, who went through it all as well, (well 2 did, and one waited). Now she has it, and of course they will milk this stoney. Free advertising for the doctors, etc.


      Can you tell us about the relative who has had it for decades? Is she incapacitated in any way, or been pestered to go the doctor route? Or is she taking anything natural, etc to keep it in check?

      There seems to be a war going on in AU at present around this subject; one day a barbaric stoney about all 25 year old girls getting surgery, and another about how ineffective it is or can be!


      If 65% aren't going near this, then common sence seems to be winning, at least in AU!


      I am sure we will see a cure in our lifetimes GEN X peepz.
      You will, but not from the doctors! I just read their latest research, there is promising results in gene therapy and they are pinpointing genes that can be changed, to help, etc.

      No concrete cure, around the corner, just slightly more effective ways to prolong life, and most likely with a hideous price tag!


      They are also pinpointing radio therapy as well, so in 10 years when the surrounding cells start getting nasty from being blasted with x-rays, it will be a smaller area!


      100 years and a trillion dollars, money well spent, not!!!

      Shane
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      • Profile picture of the author derekwong28
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yep, that is what l don't get? If it has taken at least 5 years to develop breast cancer to the point where it is detectable, then the body has the nasty cancer cells running around for 5 or more years, which means unless it is going to block your heart, etc and kill you soon, surgery isn't an asap proposition.


        Doctors seem to be scared that you will find something else and ditch their methods!


        The doctor that treated my mother was carrying on about getting it done in a few weeks time. And was persistent every time she went to see him in that time!


        This week there are or were, two tv reports on the lady above who went through all that and got it again. And three sisters, who went through it all as well, (well 2 did, and one waited). Now she has it, and of course they will milk this stoney. Free advertising for the doctors, etc.


        Can you tell us about the relative who has had it for decades? Is she incapacitated in any way, or been pestered to go the doctor route? Or is she taking anything natural, etc to keep it in check?

        There seems to be a war going on in AU at present around this subject; one day a barbaric stoney about all 25 year old girls getting surgery, and another about how ineffective it is or can be!


        If 65% aren't going near this, then common sence seems to be winning, at least in AU!


        You will, but not from the doctors! I just read their latest research, there is promising results in gene therapy and they are pinpointing genes that can be changed, to help, etc.

        No concrete cure, around the corner, just slightly more effective ways to prolong life, and most likely with a hideous price tag!


        They are also pinpointing radio therapy as well, so in 10 years when the surrounding cells start getting nasty from being blasted with x-rays, it will be a smaller area!


        100 years and a trillion dollars, money well spent, not!!!

        Shane
        I agree that by the time a cancer is seen in the breast, there is a possibility that it had spread already, although not in detectable manner. But again, whether or not spread has occurred or not and the extent of the spread depends on the individual cancer in the individual. Still it is better to remove the visible cancer so that further spread can be prevented. That is why most surgeons in the UK and Hong Kong prefer to do a lumpectomy (removing the lump) rather than mastectomy. Quite often, radiotherapy and hormonal therapy would be given as well. Hormonal therapy should not be considered as chemotherapy and is given to prevent the breast cancer from coming back. This is a major advance in treating breast cancer in recent years.

        Hormone Therapy for Breast Cancer - National Cancer Institute


        The relative with breast cancer is married to a professor of surgery. They are very distant relatives and I don't really know them at all. The other was a closer relative who had ovarian cancer had surgery three times and chemo two decades ago. But there is a twist and I suppose it is really up to you believe it or not. She got a friend to go to India to see a "living god" Sai Baba on her behalf.

        Sathya Sai Baba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        According to her, Sai Baba told her friend straightaway that he knows about her case and told him that she will need to be operated again the third and final time and she will be well.

        Derek
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          According to her, Sai Baba told her friend straightaway that he knows about her case and told him that she will need to be operated again the third and final time and she will be well.

          Derek
          Yeah, l talked to someone a while ago, who went to see Sai Baba, and he can perform some pretty impressive stuff! Although l have also seen others, that can do some pretty cool stuff as well. So l tend to believe, he is legitimate.

          Or used to, the authorities of course tried to trash him, with the usual Pedophile crap, (as they do anyone who is legitimate) but it didn't stick.


          Surprised what he recommended, maybe that was a life lesson or something?

          Shane
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