Biofuel breakthrough: Quick cook method turns algae into oil.

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Biofuel breakthrough: Quick cook method turns algae into oil. Michigan Engineering researchers can "pressure-cook" algae for as little as a minute and transform an unprecedented 65 percent of the green slime into biocrude.

University of Michigan News Service | Biofuel breakthrough: Quick cook method turns algae into oil
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Sounds like we might just have some companies cleaning up those deadly algae blooms that are spreading everywhere pretty soon, eh? Kewl.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    To make their one-minute biocrude, Savage and Julia Faeth, a doctoral student in Savage's lab, filled a steel pipe connector with 1.5 milliliters of wet algae, capped it and plunged it into 1,100-degree Fahrenheit sand.
    That's not efficient at all.

    Now scale that up a few million gallons & watch how fast the cost to manufacture goes up. The more cool algae you add, the cooler the sand becomes, which forces them to keep burning fuel to maintain the heat source ($$).

    They need to figure out a solar cooker on a large scale.
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    • Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

      How much energy does it take to heat the algae to 1100F? Is it less than what is produced? How much energy does it take to refine it?

      I hate articles like that. Either they are written by idiots, or they think their readers are idiots.
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      That's not efficient at all.

      Now scale that up a few million gallons & watch how fast the cost to manufacture goes up. The more cool algae you add, the cooler the sand becomes, which forces them to keep burning fuel to maintain the heat source ($$).

      They need to figure out a solar cooker on a large scale.
      To make their one-minute biocrude, Savage and Julia Faeth, a doctoral student in Savage's lab, filled a steel pipe connector with 1.5 milliliters of wet algae, capped it and plunged it into 1,100-degree Fahrenheit sand. The small volume ensured that the algae was heated through, but with only a minute to warm up, the algae's temperature should have just grazed the 550-degree mark before the team pulled the reactor back out.
      Efficiency is a key, granted - but items such as aluminum (1220 °F+) or glass (abt. 3000 °F+) are produced at higher temps, and to refine crude oil, a temp of +1112 °F is needed...so though it would seem high, the sand can retain heat readily, and on a large scale could be part of a larger heat exchange to make it viable...algae can be readily produced practically anywhere - you don't need arable land to do it. Algae could be an alternative biofuel.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Ten years ago I worked as an assistant engineer for a
    research company where I did this practically every
    week day. Temperatures were a lot less and the
    pressure also. We turned a bunch of biomass
    into gas and oil--old tires, used cooking oil, tar sands,
    chicken parts etc.

    One of the owners of the company holds the patent
    for the process called TDP.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Ten years ago I worked as an assistant engineer for a
      research company where I did this practically every
      week day. Temperatures were a lot less and the
      pressure also. We turned a bunch of biomass
      into gas and oil--old tires, used cooking oil, tar sands,
      chicken parts etc.

      One of the owners of the company holds the patent
      for the process called TDP.

      -Ray Edwards
      That is fascinating Ray, thanks for the input - is there anything you can elaborate on? How do you consider the viability and energy efficiency of these waste products as biofuel?

      • TDP or thermal depolymerization is yet another promising technology that breaks down complex yet fundamentally organic materials like old tires, sewage and plastic into light crude oil by mimicking the natural process that create hydrocarbons. ...
      www.altrabiofuels.com/Glossary.cfm
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

        That is fascinating Ray, thanks for the input - is there anything you can elaborate on? How do you consider the viability and energy efficiency of these waste products as biofuel?
        Here is a description from Wikipedia:

        An approach that exceeded break-even was developed by Illinois microbiologist Paul Baskis in the 1980s and refined over the next 15 years (see U. S. patent 5,269,947, issued in 1993). The technology was finally developed for commercial use in 1996 by Changing World Technologies (CWT). Brian S. Appel (CEO of CWT) took the technology in 2001 and expanded and changed it into what is now referred to as TCP (Thermal Conversion Process), and has applied for and obtained several patents (see, for example, published patent 8,003,833, issued August 23, 2011). A Thermal Depolymerization demonstration plant was completed in 1999 in Philadelphia by Thermal Depolymerization, LLC, and the first full-scale commercial plant was constructed in Carthage, Missouri, about 100 yards (91 m) from ConAgra Foods' massive Butterball turkey plant, where it is expected to process about 200 tons of turkey waste into 500 barrels (79 m3) of oil per day.
        I worked with the company (CWT) up to the point where
        they built the plant in Philadelphia. I worked on a lab sized
        machine that produced the oil and gas.

        But basically you cooked up strips of tires in water up to
        a high pressure (I think it was like 250 psi) for about
        an hour and then slowly reduced the pressure and increased
        the temperature. On releasing the pressure you got
        propane quality gas and crude oil with the "ashes"
        that could be used as a fertilizer.

        The process is energy efficient and even attracted the attention
        of the US Defense Department.

        I had to sign a 5-year non-disclosure agreement which
        has since expired. I rubbed shoulders with some
        big-wigs from Washington in those days, including a
        former director of the CIA!

        -Ray Edwards
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        • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
          makes perfect sense since it takes about 7 gallons (?) of crude oil to produce a large tire such as used in Humvees.

          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          Here is a description from Wikipedia:

          I worked with the company (CWT) up to the point where
          they built the plant in Philadelphia. I worked on a lab sized
          machine that produced the oil and gas.

          But basically you cooked up strips of tires in water up to
          a high pressure (I think it was like 250 psi) for about
          an hour and then slowly reduced the pressure and increased
          the temperature. On releasing the pressure you got
          propane quality gas and crude oil with the "ashes"
          that could be used as a fertilizer.

          The process is energy efficient and even attracted the attention
          of the US Defense Department.

          I had to sign a 5-year non-disclosure agreement which
          has since expired. I rubbed shoulders with some
          big-wigs from Washington in those days, including a
          former director of the CIA!

          -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
    There is a company in San francisco - SolaZyme - that has a patent on the "algae to crude oil" process without using high temperatures like the other company you mention above. However, Solazyme's conversion process takes about 2 to 3 weeks to complete. They claim that they can ramp up production to meet all U.S. needs within 3 to 6 months if we were to run out of sweet crude oil worldwide.
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    • Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post

      There is a company in San francisco - SolaZyme - that has a patent on the "algae to crude oil" process without using high temperatures like the other company you mention above. However, Solazyme's conversion process takes about 2 to 3 weeks to complete. They claim that they can ramp up production to meet all U.S. needs within 3 to 6 months if we were to run out of sweet crude oil worldwide.
      I've heard of SolaZyme - they not only are working on algae as biofuel, but also as energy and dietary food sources, like Chlorella, etc...

      Interesting what you can get out of one little slimey organism!
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      • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
        Indeed! Algae is a great food source (rich in protein and micro nutrients) and has been used as a food source in Asia for centuries...

        Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

        I've heard of SolaZyme - they not only are working on algae as biofuel, but also as energy and dietary food sources, like Chlorella, etc...

        Interesting what you can get out of one little slimey organism!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Actually - if they use it to clean up dangerous algae blooms that are erupting in our waterways before actually breeding their own algae - it wouldn't matter how much energy the process takes - it would be worth the clean up. That algae is destroying our marine life.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      algae can be readily produced practically anywhere - you don't need arable land to do it. Algae could be an alternative biofuel.
      It is also an excellent pre-processor of sewage.

      I have a friend who's an algaeculturist, who works with a system to grow algae very quickly using vertically hung growth medium. It has the useful effect of taking a lot of the pollutants from the wastewater used to feed it. It's a surprisingly efficient technology

      The potential applications for algaeculture are mind-boggling. Food, fuel, and fertilizer are among the easiest and most promising.


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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        It is also an excellent pre-processor of sewage.

        I have a friend who's an algaeculturist, who works with a system to grow algae very quickly using vertically hung growth medium. It has the useful effect of taking a lot of the pollutants from the wastewater used to feed it. It's a surprisingly efficient technology

        The potential applications for algaeculture are mind-boggling. Food, fuel, and fertilizer are among the easiest and most promising.


        Paul
        Unfortunately - some of it that is blooming in the wild is itself poisonous. Other blooms just choke out other marine life. Under controlled conditions, this stuff has potential to be of great benefit. In the wild it can be so destructive. Definitely glad to hear that it's still under study, though. The scientists that were working on it back in 2008 when someone in here asked about who WE'D give the noble to got my vote in here. Not sure why they aren't getting more funding for this work than they are.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Sal,

          I asked Lucas (renewergy.biz) about this, and apparently the algae blooms aren't as easily harvested in open water as one might think/hope. The only practical solution at the moment is to stop feeding them, which means cutting out the flow of pollutants that provide the nutrients.

          He had some observations on the experiment that turned algae into oil so quickly. It's an interesting proof of concept, but the problems with doing it on an industrial scale are big.

          According to him, the tubes used for this experiment had an inside diameter of 1mm. If you go much bigger, there's a temperature gradient between the material at the edges and in the center that changes the chemistry in important ways. You also need a way to maintain the very high pressures, which involve lots of pressure at the feeder end and heavy duty flow regulators at the dispensing end.

          He made an interesting comment to the effect that the energy to maintain the 1100 degree temps was not an issue. All the practical challenges are in scaling it up to useful levels.


          Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    I live in South Carolina & anyone that lives in the south eastern US knows that kudzu grows a foot a day, even in a drought (that's not an exaggeration).

    I just wonder why they don't convert kudzu into fuel. What's the difference between the algae & the kudzu as far as converting to fuel?



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  • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
    Boy, do I know Kudzu...
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
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      Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post

      Boy, do I know Kudzu...
      Scientist need to figure out why Kudzu grows so fast & add that to food (tomatoes, beans, corn, etc...). That alone would double the growing season for crops. Growing tomatoes would be like Jack & the Beanstalk (lol).

      If you look up the word kudzu in the dictionary it's definition is probably: "Grows like a weed".

      I live on 75 acres here in SC, & kudzu has taken over approx. 1/4 of the property & man once it reaches the full grown trees, it's over, that stuff just takes over the whole forest canopy. It even jumps from one side of the driveway to the other side underground. It's also impossible to find the tap root, heck it might be a mile away.

      I've heard goats will eat kudzu, we've tried that & all they did was eat around the kudzu, I guess If the goat was hungry enough they might eat it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Dave Patterson
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        Scientist need to figure out why Kudzu grows so fast & add that to food (tomatoes, beans, corn, etc...). That alone would double the growing season for crops. Growing tomatoes would be like Jack & the Beanstalk (lol).

        If you look up the word kudzu in the dictionary it's definition is probably: "Grows like a weed".

        I live on 75 acres here in SC, & kudzu has taken over approx. 1/4 of the property & man once it reaches the full grown trees, it's over, that stuff just takes over the whole forest canopy. It even jumps from one side of the driveway to the other side underground. It's also impossible to find the tap root, heck it might be a mile away.

        I've heard goats will eat kudzu, we've tried that & all they did was eat around the kudzu, I guess If the goat was hungry enough they might eat it.
        This is 10 years old, but I understand they've made some great advances in controlling kudzu...

        Maybe if you contact them they can send some info to help you out.

        http://msucares.com/nmrec/stations/nmsbranch.html
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        • Originally Posted by Dave Patterson View Post

          This is 10 years old, but I understand they've made some great advances in controlling kudzu...

          Maybe if you contact them they can send some info to help you out.

          North Mississippi Branch Experiment Station
          I don't know why they couldn't process it like a "switch-grass" would be to make fuel or something - the fact that it grows so fast would be a boon. I've also read the Chinese have been using Kudzu to control alcoholism for centuries? With all the 'cross polinatin' going on...it's a wonder to me how they can't take the positives (speedy growth) of a weed, and add it to a useful plant - if they want to 'GMO' that's the helpful way to do it...(unless it turns into killer kudzu or something)
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  • Profile picture of the author Geordie John
    I have absolutely nothing valuable to add to this discussion, but it made for a fascinating read
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Does it burn any cleaner than traditional oil based fuel?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Kurt,
      Does it burn any cleaner than traditional oil based fuel?
      Not that I've heard. They're turning algae into oil, which is what nature did. They're just trying to do it faster. Same end result, though.


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