Global Warming - Real or Not Real?

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So I just got my power back after 6 days in the dark/cold which feels really good.

My home is 150 ft from the raritan bay in central NJ, and we got slammed pretty hard by this hurricane. Our town was issued a mandatory evacuation but since I'm stupid, I never left. Instead, I went to the beach 6 hours before the eye hit. I had to see how powerful this storm really was which was a BIG MISTAKE. The second I got past the dunes, I was hit by a wall of wind going at least 90mph. I had branches flying into me, garbage, I saw boats coming off the docks and slamming into the jetties. I was out there for about 15 seconds before I turned around and realized this was gonna be serious (I actually wrote that sig right before our power went out).

Long story short, my home survived. But I can't say the same thing for many of my neighbors. Its only recently that I have been thinking about global warming quite a bit. And I've been reading A LOT since we got our power back. But it seems to me, that a lot of professionals don't believe in it (drs & scientists). It seems all the people who believe in it, are activists or politicians who have their own agendas to push.

But still, it seems something IS still happening. I've never been through a hurricane in my life, nevermind going through 2 - 2 years in a row. So this really has me wondering. My question is... is this just a coincidence? 2 hurricanes 2 years in a row?

How many of you people believe in global warming? I've read SO MANY different view points on this. Some people are saying the pacific is cooling, while the atlantic is getting warmer.. which has nothing to do with global warming but natural oscillations in weather. Then some people say the indian ocean is feeding warm water into the atlantic, and these hurricanes will become more common in our area. Others of course are saying this is a systemic cause of pollution.

Is there anyone on here who has studied this for a long time? What are your beliefs on global warming? I'm not trying to stir any arguements. I'm genuinely curious if this is random weather, or something more systemic.

Thanks WF - Red
  • Profile picture of the author Lou Diamond
    Hello,
    it is getting much warmer in New York down state, I believe in the next 30 years Long Island will be like Miami Florida.
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Monroe
    I don't believe in it, at least not to the extent it is portrayed by the media etc.

    As you've said, a lot of people pushing it, have their own agenda.

    I stopped believing in it, when it was discovered that a report written by the government with research paid for by tax payers was found to be over-exaggerated so that they could try and push some sort of bill/tax.

    Does global warming exist? Sure. Is it man made? Nope. Do we contribute to it? Of course we do.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    These statements were written over 100 years ago by a
    woman many (including myself) consider to be a prophet .

    "The restraining Spirit of God is even now being withdrawn
    from the world. Hurricanes, storms, tempests, fire and flood,
    disasters by sea and land, follow each other in quick succession.
    Science seeks to explain all these. The signs thickening
    around us, telling of the near approach of the Son of God,
    are attributed to any other than the true cause. Men cannot
    discern the sentinel angels restraining the four winds that
    they shall not blow until the servants of God are sealed;
    but when God shall bid His angels loose the winds, there
    shall be such a scene of strife as no pen can picture.
    —Testimonies for the Church 6:408

    The time is at hand when there will be sorrow in the world
    that no human balm can heal. The Spirit of God is being
    withdrawn. Disasters by sea and by land follow one another
    in quick succession. How frequently we hear of earthquakes
    and tornadoes, of destruction by fire and flood, with great
    loss of life and property! Apparently these calamities are
    capricious outbreaks of disorganized, unregulated forces
    of nature, wholly beyond the control of man; but in them
    all, God’s purpose may be read
    . They are among the
    agencies by which He seeks to arouse men and women
    to a sense of their danger.—Prophets and Kings, 277.
    (Ellen G. White) (Emphasis mines.)

    She wrote what would happen and what they actually are and how
    men would try to explain their causes. I think she was dead on.

    These types of storms are going to become the rule instead
    of the exception!

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Hurricanes, storms, tempests, fire and flood,
      disasters by sea and land, follow each other in quick succession.
      Science seeks to explain all these.
      Science can explain all of these things. No god needed. No god involved.

      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      These types of storms are going to become the rule instead
      of the exception!
      Probably not. They will get a lot of air-time though. If this same storm had hit the Philippines, China, etc. you would have never heard of it.

      Joe Mobley
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  • Profile picture of the author Archimedes
    Of course, Global Warming is REAL. Don't you see the weather pattern changes occurring worldwide? Have you not seen the devastation with the Frankenstorm we have just had in the eastern portion of the USA? Global Climate pattern changesn have occurred multiple times in Earth's history. It is happening now, and we're speeding up the process with our extensive use of fossile fuels.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
    Climate change is a very real phenomenon.

    I live in Ohio.

    Back in July it was about 90 degrees. Tornadoes and thunderstorms. (Oh my )

    This month we have already had snow.

    There must be somebody to blame.
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  • Profile picture of the author adamzanber
    So far what I have studied Global warming is not real. Earth has a history of varied temperature and it does not caused by us either. It is a natural process which happens due to many factors.

    People in Government just use these things for their own agenda. The statistics given in Al gore documentary have been proven wrong by many scientists.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Change = real
    Warming - desertification due to excessive tree cutting, overpopulation.
    Political propaganda = trying to use anything possible to get more money out of your pocket.
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Change = real
      Warming - desertification due to excessive tree cutting, overpopulation.
      Political propaganda = trying to use anything possible to get more money out of your pocket.
      I agree, the most profitable and powerful industry in the history of mankind, Big Oil, uses propaganda and politics to motivate the deniers to get more money out of your pocket.

      As the Artice ice melts...guess what? Yep, that's opening up more deep-sea drilling for the oil companies, as they get access to more open ocean.

      BTW, the national science academies of EVERY industrialized nation recognizes that much of climate change/global warming is caused by humans.

      And even if it isn't caused by man, we still have to do something about it, or expect more fires, draughts, typhoons, hurricanes and also, record blizzards.
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  • In the relative recent centuries past, and for eons, the Earth has been relatively 'self-sustaining'...natural disasters like forest fires, rise and fall of oceans, and catastrophes like earthquake and volcanic activity, have been kept in a relative 'natural balance' IE: Forest fires encourage new forest growth - diseases reduce populations of animals and encourage stronger species...

    I'm still not quite sure the Earth was prepared for the barrage it has seen since the industrial revolution occurred...Though it has sustained a barrage of different harmful atmospheres over time, it takes much longer that just a few human generations to correct these processes in an organic way, and the human population of this planet is rising at an exponential rate, and the depletion of natural resources has accelerated...


    (not that I have anything against Humans, you understand - it's just that, even in war and quest for more territory...they have been much more localized and agrarian than they have in the past say, 500 or so years...)

    And lets face it...one really good solar storm could wipe out all the electrical systems in a flash - a shift in magnetic poles would put this planet into chaos in no time flat...(but of course, that's just a 'worse-case' scenario..(jimo).)

    Brought to by:
    :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      In the relative recent centuries past, and for eons, the Earth has been relatively 'self-sustaining'...natural disasters like forest fires, rise and fall of oceans, and catastrophes like earthquake and volcanic activity, have been kept in a relative 'natural balance' IE: Forest fires encourage new forest growth - diseases reduce populations of animals and encourage stronger species...

      I'm still not quite sure the Earth was prepared for the barrage it has seen since the industrial revolution occurred...Though it has sustained a barrage of different harmful atmospheres over time, it takes much longer that just a few human generations to correct these processes in an organic way, and the human population of this planet is rising at an exponential rate, and the depletion of natural resources has accelerated...


      (not that I have anything against Humans, you understand - it's just that, even in war and quest for more territory...they have been much more localized and agrarian than they have in the past say, 500 or so years...)

      And lets face it...one really good solar storm could wipe out all the electrical systems in a flash - a shift in magnetic poles would put this planet into chaos in no time flat...(but of course, that's just a 'worse-case' scenario..(jimo).)

      Brought to by:
      :rolleyes:
      Magnetic pole shift is no disaster. Even in a flip the magnetic field doesn't disappear - we get localized anomalies and sometimes multiple poles at the height of the shift until the N and S snap back in - but there's no disaster there. The only thing it might mess up is migration patterns for animals and some things like cell phones. Magnetic pole shifts are NOT rare and NOT destructive.

      Kurt - the whole C202 thing was propaganda, whether there is or isn't warming. First of all - all of the planets were experiencing shifts in C202 - and second of all, if we reforested, the forestry would take care of the excesses naturally - in fact over-cutting is one reason we have the excess - but that's okay because you need the extra to protect plants in heat. C202 is NOT a pollutant. Evaporated water is more of a greenhouse gas than carbon. You want water out of the air? Reforest the base of the glaciers. They aren't melting. The bases of them have been deforested and so they are not replenishing snow. That's the word from scientists working right ON the glaciers until their word passes through the politicians hands anyway.
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      • Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Magnetic pole shift is no disaster. Even in a flip the magnetic field doesn't disappear - we get localized anomalies and sometimes multiple poles at the height of the shift until the N and S snap back in - but there's no disaster there. The only thing it might mess up is migration patterns for animals and some things like cell phones. Magnetic pole shifts are NOT rare and NOT destructive.
        You have a point. "Magnetic pole shift" was probably not a good way to put it - I was thinking more loss of the whole magnetic shebang, total no-go ('worst-case' scenario) (but gosh, if we lose those cell towers...how are we going to text while we drive? )
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

          You have a point. "Magnetic pole shift" was probably not a good way to put it - I was thinking more loss of the whole magnetic shebang, total no-go ('worst-case' scenario) (but gosh, if we lose those cell towers...how are we going to text while we drive? )
          There's not a hella lot of ways for humans to impact the magnetic field at the core. Our cell towers, HAARP experiments, etc probably mess up the field more than anything, including the sun, ever has. But what if we took all those towere out? We'd quit radiating ourselves and probably would cause some cooling. It sure wouldn't hurt not to have a man-made global grid. I'm all for that.

          And whoever said it (Steve?), you are right - you can't just reforest overnight. In fact, once the soil is desertificated, you can't just replant. In Japan, they have made a new system - spendy as all get out - that uses pipes under the soil to cool and retain the "sweat". Then they mix up some organic matter with the desertificated soil and with the pipes the water is retained until something can grow again. Not sure what they do decrease the salination that the desertification process produces. You can replant until desertification sets in though, so I would think that we might better be getting around to that in as many places as we can and we need to do it fast.
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          • Profile picture of the author fin
            I think it's about time we thought about building cities in the sky, protected by force-fields of some kind. Then we can leave every year and head down to the land for our summer holidays.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bryan Zazz
              Originally Posted by fin View Post

              I think it's about time we thought about building cities in the sky, protected by force-fields of some kind. Then we can leave every year and head down to the land for our summer holidays.
              except on power shortage days which will make them sky cities taste some dust ... the hard way.
              why bother with sky things and challenge gravity unnecessarily ... hint: gravity ALWAYS wins ...
              So why complicate things? Go to Greece or Spain instead ... I'm sure these days some great prices abound over there, plus the Mediterranean is always blue and the sky is always clear and sunny ... except on tsunami days, but luckily you will be away on those days.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I'm surprised this is going on, since it is so political. I DO agree with what heysal said. HECK, why don't we have metal, and maybe rock, for homes? Metal is used for nearly all big buildings, and rock has been used for THOUSANDS of years. IMAGINE, we can keep more trees, build more/better buildings, have less waste, and fewer deaths.

    We will save a slug that maybe nobody will miss, but kill trees with NO thought! And people talk about REFORESTING. ***BULL*** It takes DECADES, perhaps hundreds of years to grow a tree as substantial as some that are cut down.

    And I had heard earlier that smoky was a REAL bear! Found in a forest fire, he survived, was nursed back to health, and became an icon to help prevent forest fires. Aren't NATURAL disasters ENOUGH? Aren't careless acts enough? I guess not. We have developments, wood buildings, and paper.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    How would a pole shift affect cell towers? Cell towers work by triangulation and signal strength, and don't care where you are in relation to anything else. HECK, go ahead and put them up to a huge electromagnet. They'll probably continue to work FINE!

    Steve
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    • Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      How would a pole shift affect cell towers? Cell towers work by triangulation and signal strength, and don't care where you are in relation to anything else. HECK, go ahead and put them up to a huge electromagnet. They'll probably continue to work FINE!

      Steve
      My bad - I alluding to what Sal referred to...but she said cell phones, not towers...so mea culpa...I don't know what would happen if you put a huge magnetic field next to a tower, but it would most likely have some effect...

      All of which have nothing to do really, with the global warming OP, so I guess it's a moot point for now...
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Maybe there is a misunderstanding. Cell phones are 100% TERRESTRIAL, unless OTHER parts maybe have to go to other countries. They don't use satellites.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author bradstern
    I am one of those who ignore the topic of global warming.

    It has come to my awareness after I've seen Al Gore's The Inconvenient Truth. But, I never really responded to it.

    However, after seeing all these hurricanes, earthquakes, calamities, etc, I suddenly thought (same as like you did) that maybe these things are true and since we are not responding to it, we have been experiencing all these things.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by bradstern View Post

      I am one of those who ignore the topic of global warming.

      It has come to my awareness after I've seen Al Gore's The Inconvenient Truth. But, I never really responded to it.

      However, after seeing all these hurricanes, earthquakes, calamities, etc, I suddenly thought (same as like you did) that maybe these things are true and since we are not responding to it, we have been experiencing all these things.
      Funny thing about weather. It doesn't care about taxes. And many laws are broken. If the US cuts down production, China will again do what they have, RAMP IT UP. ICSM.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Hemp. Grows just about anywhere. Extremely economical. Paper. Fabric. Food. Many fiber uses. Very durable and versatile.

    Most of all, developing it would reduce the number of trees being harvested for paper and other fiber uses. The trees saved would greatly offset the big baddie carbon dioxide.

    This is a freakin' no brainer so why don't the people who are so smart exorcise the phony demons associated with hemp and really make a difference? Three guesses. Anyone?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Hemp. Grows just about anywhere. Extremely economical. Paper. Fabric. Food. Many fiber uses. Very durable and versatile.

      Most of all, developing it would reduce the number of trees being harvested for paper and other fabric uses. The trees saved would greatly offset the big baddie carbon dioxide.

      This is a freakin' no brainer so why don't the people who are so smart exorcise the phony demons associated with hemp and really make a difference? Three guesses. Anyone?
      Unless the mass of the plant grows SO much faster, and it is planted on land tress can't be, that doesn't solve the problem.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Unless the mass of the plant grows SO much faster, and it is planted on land tress can't be, that doesn't solve the problem.

        Steve
        You're joking, right? A helm plant will grow up through a crack in the sidewalk and can be harvested within months. There's no rational comparison to trees.
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

          You're joking, right? A helm plant will grow up through a crack in the sidewalk and can be harvested within months. There's no rational comparison to trees.
          You REALLY thin that a HEMP plant that is a few months old can put out as much oxygen as even a 3 yo oak covering the same land mass? Sorry, it WON'T!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            You REALLY thin that a HEMP plant that is a few months old can put out as much oxygen as even a 3 yo oak covering the same land mass? Sorry, it WON'T!

            Steve
            No. That wasn't my point at all. If you look at my post I said that increased hemp production will save millions of trees that are now getting uses for fiber. And since they won't be getting cut down they'll be putting out more oxygen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jesse L
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  • Profile picture of the author trevtrev
    weather fluctuations are natural through out history.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
      Excellent! Billions, ba-ba-ba-billions of years before the man walked upright, the weather went through fluctuations. Welcome to the blue marble.

      Joe Mobley


      Originally Posted by trevtrev View Post

      weather fluctuations are natural through out history.
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  • Profile picture of the author lastdual
    From the late 1930s through the 1950s there were quite a few hurricanes along the New England coast. Scientists have been saying we're due for another cycle. Simply blaming Sandy on global warming seems a bit too convenient.
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  • Profile picture of the author RedShifted
    Some very interesting responses. I'm a right brain dominant thinker, so I have a hard time reaching concrete conclusions about anything. This usually forces me to make intuitive leaps over logic and look at things more holistically.

    There seems to be a lot of factors that point towards climate change. And sometimes just looking at number and graphs can be really shocking.




    Then there is this site that tries to collect data from all around the world. I've never seen this before, but just looking at the numbers makes the human race look like parasites:

    Worldometers - real time world statistics

    My parents are both republicans. And whats interesting is niether one of them believes in global warming. I can see this has influenced the way I think over the course of my life. Because I am a VERY scientific person. My parents aren't. I pay a lot of attention to numbers, but I still tend to reject a lot of claims based on numbers. And I believe that tendency springs from my upbringing.

    But I have to say, I think we are heading towards a trend of nastier weather in the near future. And by "nastier" weather, I really just mean a change in the weather. Things that people aren't use to or prepared for. Whether its CO2 causing it, or tectonic plate shifts, or magnetic pole shifts, or the planet still recovering from the ice age... I don't honestly care.

    All I know is in the future, I will be much better prepared for natural disasters like this. I never thought that in NJ, I'd have to wake up at 3am to go to the gas station, just to wait online for 2 hours while fights break out and cops arrest people. I'm going to start looking into alternative energy sources with a lot more interest these days. I can't change other peoples behavoir, or the weather.. but I can sure as hell change my own behavoir. The population isn't getting any smaller, oil reserves won't be around forever, so its time to start thinking about my future more seriously.

    Sad that it took a hurricane to do this. But I suppose now is better than never.

    -Red
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by RedShifted View Post

      Some very interesting responses. I'm a right brain dominant thinker, so I have a hard time reaching concrete conclusions about anything. This usually forces me to make intuitive leaps over logic and look at things more holistically.

      There seems to be a lot of factors that point towards climate change. And sometimes just looking at number and graphs can be really shocking.
      You forget cycles, timing, and other things. Heysal is right, there has been deforestation, etc... MAN are we lucky this is a WATER PLANET! If it weren't, there would probably be 2-3 times the people , and everyone would be sluggish, starving, etc.... disease would be rampant, etc.... STILL, how many people could this planet really support.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
    Despite all the non-scientists on here opining on the validity of both sides of the argument, here's one FACT that no-one can argue with.

    Insurance companies (the ones who have to pay out for claims when a disaster occurs) DO believe that global warming/climate change is happening, and these disasters are going to get worse.

    Since most of the arguments against are based on money matters, I thought you might be interested in the viewpoint of one of the cornerstones of capitalism (the insurance industry).
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  • Profile picture of the author rockong
    I'm sure it is true...we messed up the environment for quite some time before we started becoming green. I'm sure some parts the negative effects are minimized or starting to reverse, but we've got a journey ahead of us!
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  • Profile picture of the author GBM
    When I first found out the number of people that didn't believe in global warming... I was actually amazed. I used to think it was just a few people. Stop being dumb, there is so much evidence supporting global warming... every god damn scientist says it exists and there is overwhelming PROOF that it's true. Oh sure, you can argue in favour of those 5 scientists paid by the oil companies, but that's complete BS.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
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    Global Warming - Real or Not Real?

    We aren't in the ice-age, so yea, it seems to be getting a little warmer.
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