[USA] Throwing Away Tax Dollars To "Improve" Education?

Have you compared this to the unemployment rate for people without a college degree?

And both India and China are producing 20,000 - 50,000 more engineers a year than the US is. In 20 years, that could be up to a million more engineers for each country. How will the future generation compete with that?

Our upper education system is still the best in the World and people from all over the planet want to come here to get an education. What needs "fixing' is our lower education system and economy.

Look....I don't know how I feel...I went to Stanford and I still feel shorted - you take what you learned and you apply it....

I think actually teaching worthwhile stuff in school would do a lot. We're too concerned these days with offending some elementary school kid by letting them know they didn't cut it in the classroom. God forbid the kid's self esteem gets hurt because he failed a subject.

So instead, everyone gets a star for his forehead and passes without having a clue as to how to read or do math. I wonder how their self esteem is going to be when they're standing in the unemployment line because their reading level is on par with 6th grader.

There's more to education than dollars and cents. Education has a positive societal impact: less violence, more innovation, etc. We're in a bad place in our society if the only requirement of our education system is its effect on wages.

I fully agree with Kurt that it's not our Higher education that's the issue. Our lower education system is in shambles. Less importance on math and science and more time on cultural issues. (I'm trying to avoid the political aspects, but it's difficult.)

Are you kidding with this question?


Look...I went to Stanford, and I'm still an idiot...(Ken Kesey's novel notwithstanding... )

(maybe it's not a good idea that I'm still an idiot??)

but I still want to learn.............(but I WANTED to learn...no one forced me to learn - except at finals )

Throwing more money at the problem isn't always the solution.

The problem here is we can throw all the money in the world at education, and thats fine BUT having the best education system in the world means nothing if the students in the class don't want to learn.

I mean, I can pretty much say that at least half of any given class don't want to be there. If they don't want to study, they wont. The bad thing is when your in that situation your own path is blurred.

The people that want to do well, will. The others will go off and do there own thing, sure some of them will regret it later, but like I say - you can't force people into getting an education.

I also think this is a 'first world problem'. If you look at 'poorer' or less developed countries, education is cherished as they see it as 'a way out' or a better life.

Meanwhile, the youth of today in 'first world countries' care more about what sneakers there wearing to class, instead of what they are going to learn IN class.

Plus, the current economy doesn't help things. Young people see graduates in debt and out of a job, or working for minimum wage. Not exactly a great advertisement for higher education.
Just my observations, my opinion etc..

Well, mor money doesn't mean it will be better. Some of the lower cost areas have BETTER schools. So your question is a bit loaded. ALSO, we are getting rid of a LOT of higher end jobs, and NOT employing QUALIFIED citizens. I could say LOTS more, but it may be deemed to political even without names or allusions to parties. ANYWAY, apparently there was an international conspiracy of sorts that started, apparently, in 1980. It had the potential of a narcotic and the US, like other countries, is ADDICTED! BTW I say conspiracy because it was rather secret, and world wide. Affected countries include the US, GERMANY, and GREAT BRITAIN, and apparently CANADA, etc.... It is only now starting to get obvious on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th tiers. I'm probably on the first tier, and didn't REALLY notice it until about 11 years ago. I guess this explains the problems I had with "tech support" dating back to the 80s though.

Steve

WOW, this seems to be a balanced thread for once! I would say that the problems, from biggest over an average of the last 10 years to smallest are. AFAIAC, for CORPORATE today....

1. PC
2. H...
3. EXPORT of technology and various laws
4 GRADE INFLATION
5. EDUCATION
6. ETHICS

GRANTED, the economy is bad, etc... but if the above 6 points were right, the economy would be a LOT better! Look at China and India. A LOT of their urban blight was built from resources that the US would have had. A lot of our debt is because of our not having that. And #1 and #2 and even #6 mean that we have more NEED for those resources. And #3 and #4 mean that really the value of grades is FAR less today than it used to be, and it will drop more. HECK some graduates from highschool can't read!

Steve

So i saw a few people thinking its a good idea to remove funding.

Well, for some reason, even though my family could afford it, not too many of us
go the higher education route. I did. My family did not help, I heard from an
early age if i wanted college i had to pay for it.

Through blood sweat and tears I earned a scholarship.

If i did not get in that way, i never would have went.

Personally, i think everyone should be educated... i mean everyone.
and the more education the better.

I don't care how they achieve it. I don't even care if they respect or use it.
As long as they have it.

It's prmiary and secondary ed that needs help - if you turn morons out of high schools, how can colleges keep their standards with nobody qualified to get in? Lower education in the US is not "the best in the world" anymore. We're slipping down the ladder every year - and it's the federal gov's fault. Our schools are being turned into socialization camps instead of institutions of learning. Nobody cares that Johnny can't read. They care that if he shows any individuality of thought that he's punished and/or drugged for it. Teachers are not allowed to teach. They have to be so worried about being PC that they can't even answer questions about many subjects that students might ask about for fear of losing their jobs. Students that could really excel are held back in "fairness" to the rest. Our schools blow out more geniuses than any other 1st world country in the world because of such BS. We don't need more money in education - we need some education in education. That means we need to get perverted Uncle Sam the hell out of the schools.

I am surprised that so little of this thread, if any, speaks to the issues I see as primary. The education system needs massive reform before it is reasonable to expect different results. Only then is money the primary issue.

This comment suggests the problem: "Next, every student finishes college... with a 4.0.... They go to look for jobs.... 90%+ cannot find jobs....... "

Schools on every level, and I give them the benefit of the doubt as being well intentioned if misdirected, are focused on teaching skills that do not prepare people for life.

On the elementary level students fail to learn how to read and write. I find it very disappointing that people, even those with a college education, publish posts everyday on many blogs and forums revealing that they do not have even a rudimentary knowledge of basic spelling and grammar. (Members here may be better because this forum consists more of achievers, people who learn the skills they need to succeed.)

In the university, students graduate before seeing if there are jobs to be had. They should determine this before starting! An individual I know graduated this year with a four year degree only to learn that a Master's degree was required for an entry level job in that field (by law) and only about ten percent of graduates could get into grad school. What about the debt incurred by the others. How many of them would have started in the first place if they knew that?

A local business I know has lots of jobs open right now. But they cannot find people who have the qualifications they need for their technical business. Our educational programs need to relate to the needs of the economy if jobs are an expected reward.

There are many other issues that need attention. A superficial view will not uncover the real problems.

This forum is a great example of what real education looks like. We are all students. We look for information about the training we need from people who are doing what we want to do. Then we learn the skills we need to succeed. Some money is needed but it is not a major part of the problems we face in education.

I didnt even graduate from the 8th grade and I can make my own money 20 different ways. What bothers me is when I see people working 50 hours per week and they cant even pay their basic monthly expenses, let alone afford any extravagance.

I know people who do that, and have to scrimp on groceries just to pay their bills... However, I agree with Kurts point about being able to stay competitive.

Inflation is what is killing us here.

Economic Inflation actually goes hand in hand with the 6 things I mentioned. It is sad that we now live in a time where so many jobs can be automated and lower costs to give people more free time and purchasing power and yet we can't take advantage of it, for so many reasons. Most US TV series now have at least one identified dunce, within the protagonists familyor friends, and it is sadly getting more believable. People sometimes muse how a retail establishment may slow down if the cash registers suddenly became unavailable, because the clerks can't do BASIC math.

Stephen

How to fix the school system? Simple.

Scandinavian countries constantly top the tables for educational outcomes, so copy what they do.

Problem(s) solved.

In the US, some have started to demonize teachers, saying the are the problem. We have sayings like, "He who can, does. He who can't, teaches".

The countries with the best educational systems are the opposite. They seek out the best people in their fields and pay them very well to teach.

Kay, thanks for the link.

BOTH new zealand and finland did some things I always said should be done here. New zealand started out with one that MANY, including me, say should be done here. The sad thing is that it WAS tried in the US and DID work. I would say more, but it could be seen as political. Did you know US standards are at the STATE level? There may be some federal guidelines, but a lot is at the state level. Oh well! Given how I feel about the FG today I guess I am happy about that.

But the US has like the worst mix of government and corporate they can have. I, for example, would not stand for the constant capricious rewording and ordering just to sell new books. It IS amazing what they do, sometimes changing the order of chapters midstream with no change in content. I would simply tell them that they are getting a good deal and that we would find someone else if they want to do that. I could say LOTS more but, well...

Steve