World Leaders Saying War on Drugs is Failure! Legailization coming?

by HeySal
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Does this look like legalization coming or are there too many making too much money to let it happen?

Bill Clinton Joins World Leaders In Declaring Drug War Failure | ThinkProgress
  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Another example of the right thing for the wrong reason. It's a personal liberty issue, not a crime thing. Back in the 80s I read about a study that was done. Some researchers took crime and other stats from 1909 and compared them to the same statistics from 1988 I think it was. Some of the things covered:

    Heroin addiction
    Alcoholism
    Murder
    Rape
    Birth out of wedlock
    Cigarette smoking

    There was more as well. What was interesting is that back in 1909 narcotics were legal. Anyone could buy Heroin tablets, cocaine, you name it. Here's the kicker:

    Adjusted for population growth the percentages of the items studied were the same. Same number of addicts, alcoholics, smokers, murder, etc...

    So much for laws for our own good. Wish I could find the study.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      There was more as well. What was interesting is that back in 1909 narcotics were legal. Anyone could buy Heroin tablets, cocaine, you name it. Here's the kicker:

      Adjusted for population growth the percentages of the items studied were the same. Same number of addicts, alcoholics, smokers, murder, etc...
      There were some notable differences, however.

      - Drug addiction was not considered a "disease" but a character defect...lacking the sympathy/pity/excuse card users get today.

      - They weren't using drugs and then driving a car that could go 80 mph down a highway.

      - They weren't receiving checks from government agencies - paid by taxpayers.

      - If they harmed others in order to obtain drugs they weren't sent to treatment programs - they were treated like regular thieves.

      It's a different time. If the argument is that people have the right to choose to use drugs....the other side is that others don't have the obligation to provide support for those users. That would be a fair trade.

      Anyone who drinks excessively or uses drugs regularly will say they are fully capable and no one knows what they are doing. They are wrong but too befuddled to realize it.

      I personally don't have a problem with legalization as long as having the "choice" also means taking the responsibility for your habit.
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      • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        There were some notable differences, however.

        - Drug addiction was not considered a "disease" but a character defect...lacking the sympathy/pity/excuse card users get today.

        - They weren't using drugs and then driving a car that could go 80 mph down a highway.

        - They weren't receiving checks from government agencies - paid by taxpayers.

        - If they harmed others in order to obtain drugs they weren't sent to treatment programs - they were treated like regular thieves.

        It's a different time. If the argument is that people have the right to choose to use drugs....the other side is that others don't have the obligation to provide support for those users. That would be a fair trade.

        Anyone who drinks excessively or uses drugs regularly will say they are fully capable and no one knows what they are doing. They are wrong but too befuddled to realize it.

        I personally don't have a problem with legalization as long as having the "choice" also means taking the responsibility for your habit.
        I don't disagree. Violent crime wasn't associated with drugs back then for the simple reason drugs were available in the stores. As for others having an obligation to provide support, rehab, and all the rest... I'd comment but it would get me a vacation.

        The crux of everything around this issue (and many, many more) is "taking responsibility" which has become as outdated as greeting people with the words, "Merry Christmas" during Christmas time.
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    • Profile picture of the author LarryC
      << Another example of the right thing for the wrong reason. It's a personal liberty issue, not a crime thing.>>

      I think its both. One of the notable effects of alcohol prohibition was that it created lots of crime. Those statistics about the number of drug addicts don't mention crime, but I'd guess it was higher in the 1980s than in the early part of the century.

      Today, legalization could help reduce the violence from Mexican and other drug gangs in the U.S.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    On this did any of you happen to see anything about the so-called 'Drug Czar" (el Capo?) yesterday?

    He obviously had a stick of some kind up his yinyang - as he seemed incapable of articulating much of anything.

    Just posturing so much about the Fed's reaction to legalization of pot in CO and WA.

    the recorded part timed out but what I got was just alot of indignant snorts and this has to be the biggest non-statement of all statements -

    basically 'we are looking at this and will get back to you' (THREAT implied).

    Time for him to RETIRE.

    Get High Mr. Man, maybe you can do DAT!
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    You've got good points, Kay. I call it a fair trade just to keep people out of corporate jail systems and to shut down cartel crime.

    I worked for a company that used prison employees - and I've never witnessed such a disgraceful display of abuse and slavery in my life. All because someone smoked a joint. I'm also looking at our south border which is so out of control that three counties in AZ are posted off limits to Americans because of cartel danger. It's got to stop no matter what. It used to be that only a small few were drug victims - now we all are.
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    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    WOW, I can't say what I think about speakers in that article.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Violent crime wasn't associated with drugs back then for the simple reason drugs were available in the stores.
      When they are freely available, it eliminates the black market and reduces prices drastically.

      I have no doubt there were drug related crimes way back then - but they were not excused as "drug related".

      If we permitted open sales of drugs tomorrow - the cartels would collapse and that's the main source of drug related crimes.

      Truth is - drugs today are more powerful and varied. No matter how many drugs were legalized people would want illegal ones so would create another black market in the end.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    would it be boring to consider full employment as a part cure
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Actually, it's politics that is changing things. Politicians want to be elected and the people are now in favor of legalizing drugs.

    When Ammendment 64 passed in Colorado, it had the widest margin of anything on the ballot.

    And it seems that the results of the Colorado and Washington elections to legalize MJ has had a profound effect on the rest of the nation. A new poll shows that 58% of the people in the US favor legalizing MJ.

    This is one of the wider gaps of just about any issue and pro MJ candidates will have a pretty strong advantage over those that are agains legalizing MJ.

    For more about the recent poll, google:
    poll 58% approve of legal marijuana
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  • Profile picture of the author markcr
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    Legalizing what? Marajouna etc? Surely not crack/heroin etc?

    That's a dangerous path to take. People are wacked out enough without having to worry about heroin stoned drivers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by markcr View Post

      Legalizing what? Marajouna etc? Surely not crack/heroin etc?

      That's a dangerous path to take. People are wacked out enough without having to worry about heroin stoned drivers.
      Want to know something ironic? Back before prohibition of drugs and alcohol, the use of the legal drugs (tobacco and alcohol) has gone done dramatically. If I remember correctly, usage for both was over 75% of Americans at the time. Now, it's about 20% or so of Americans that smoke or drink regularly.

      To top it off, all of the illegal drugs (MJ, coke, heroin, opium) saw their usage dramatically increase over the same period of time.

      Because of the actual facts, I'm not willing to say that legalizing something means its usage will become more popular. History shows the exact opposite.

      What if we taxed the drugs and the govs started getting that money instead of the drug cartels and gangs? Then we used part of that tax money, as well as the money saved from the prison systems, and created drug treatment facilities so we could guarantee every addict could get top-rate treatment?

      Why not have the addicts pay for their treatment instead of the people that don't do drugs? Why not have the medical system handle drug abuse instead of the legal system? Which system is more qualified to deal with chemicals in the human body?

      IMO, if we legalized drug use their use will go up short term. But over the long-haul it's the only way to really deal with the problem. One thing we do know, we know the "war on drugs" has failed.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by markcr View Post

      Legalizing what? Marajouna etc? Surely not crack/heroin etc?

      That's a dangerous path to take. People are wacked out enough without having to worry about heroin stoned drivers.
      We still have people driving on these drugs. You thought they were gone? They aren't. They never will be. That's why it makes little sense to repress them. If you are going to smoke crack or shoot heroin, legality doesn't matter. At least if it's legal, you know who needs help and who can be a danger to themselves, their kids, people in general. As far as driving intoxicated - that covers all of it. Doesn't need to be illegal to get whacked for driving under the influence of a drug.
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      Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
    I per$onally think that there is $ome other rea$on that government$ and leader$ are rethinking thi$ whole drug legalization thing. I'm not quite $ure of what it might be. $$:rolleyes:$$

    Joe Mobley


    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

    Does this look like legalization coming or are there too many making too much money to let it happen?

    Bill Clinton Joins World Leaders In Declaring Drug War Failure | ThinkProgress
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  • Profile picture of the author taskemann
    Legalize it. At least weed because it will handle A LOT of the crime on the streets. I don't smoke weed, I'm not a liberal, I don't use drugs and I have never tried it either. But I mean that people must be allowed to control their own life and decide by themselves how they want to live. If they want to be stoned on drugs, fine! If they don't want to be stoned, fine!

    Just take a look at Denmark and Holland. Weed is allowed there and they're still some of the world's best countries to live in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Here's an interesting article about comments made by Obama concerning Coolarado and Washington legalizing MJ:
    Obama: Feds won't arrest marijuana users in Colorado, Washington - The Denver Post

    Obama said, "I wouldn't go that far," he said. "But what I think is that, at this point, (in) Washington and Colorado, you've seen the voters speak on this issue. And, as it is, the federal government has a lot to do when it comes to criminal prosecutions. It does not make sense from a prioritization point of view for us to focus on recreational drug users in a state that has already said that, under state law, that is legal."
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