OMG! I can't believe the breaking news I just heard!

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Here in Michigan all of Genesse County schools with some in Lapeer County and some in Northern Oakland County, are closed due to threats of violence coupled with alluding to the world ending Friday!

I can't believe this crazy crap!

They say at this point it is just precautionary and "real threats" have been made, but none proven. WTH?

What on earth are we becoming? :confused::confused:

This scares the living daylights out of me! If it turns out to be just a prank, it still is shedding light on some very warped minds!

Lord have mercy on as all!

Terra
  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
    Okay, the news is reporting that hit lists have been found from various high school students plotting retaliation before the world ends on Friday. Also threats of bombs, shootings and fire. They're coming in all over the place!

    How can these kids think of such things? How can they believe these doomsday prophecies? How can minds so young be so evil and stupid too, for that matter? :confused:

    WTH??

    Well, at least my 2 school age granddaughters will be home safe as well as all 5 of my sisters grandkids....

    Terra
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      Okay, the news is reporting that hit lists have been found from various high school students plotting retaliation before the world ends on Friday. Also threats of bombs, shootings and fire. They're coming in all over the place!

      How can these kids think of such things? How can they believe these doomsday prophecies? How can minds so young be so evil and stupid too, for that matter? :confused:

      WTH??

      Well, at least my 2 school age granddaughters will be home safe as well as all 5 of my sisters grandkids....

      Terra
      Stupid is EASY! It seems almost every show on TV in the US has a token stupid person. In many, ALL are stupid. The sad part is that it matches reality. As for evil? it is taught almost everywhere! And I don't know WHO figured that the mayans were SO diligent, perfect, etc... that they would account for EVERY day that would ever be and were SO sure that the absence of a particular day in the calendar meant that it didn't exist.

      Apparently NO culture before or since matches those qualities, so why would the mayans?

      BTW TODAY such stupidity can travel around the planet at almost the speed of light, with the internet, radio, and tv.

      Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
      People are insane dude.. unfortunately, that's just how it is these days..

      The younger generation has had medication shoved down their throat practically since birth..

      My brother grew up with a lot of problems, and the meds just seemed to turn him in to a zombie when he was on them.

      Stay safe out there everyone, I'm sure with tomorrow being the "end of the world" that there will be plenty of crazies out & about.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I can't believe people are trying to find excuses for this killer so he becomes a "victim".

        He was sick in the head and getting worse. He had everything provided to him - lived in a wealthy area - no harsh life for this guy. But he was mentally ill. He may have had Aspergers but that is a side issue not part of his killing spree.

        It's not his mother's fault - or society's fault - or the school's fault. It's HIS fault - it was HIS action and planning and no one else's. It was HIS delusional thinking that caused the tragedy. He couldn't help being mentally ill. That leaves us with no one to blame - and we hate that.
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    • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Jonbones
      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      Okay, the news is reporting that hit lists have been found from various high school students plotting retaliation before the world ends on Friday. Also threats of bombs, shootings and fire. They're coming in all over the place!

      How can these kids think of such things? How can they believe these doomsday prophecies? How can minds so young be so evil and stupid too, for that matter? :confused:

      WTH??

      Well, at least my 2 school age granddaughters will be home safe as well as all 5 of my sisters grandkids....

      Terra
      I blame rap music and the History Channel's Ancient Aliens
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

      How can these kids think of such things? How can they believe these doomsday prophecies? How can minds so young be so evil and stupid too, for that matter? :confused:
      HI Terra,

      Breath its going to be okay. The truth is they don't believe it. Most are playing around others letting off some steam under the excuse of the Mayan calendar thing. Its like when a hurricane hits and they go looting. They don't think the world is ending or even that they have to because they need the goods they are stealing (seriously HDTVs when theres no power? lol) . Its just using the opportunity in this case to get a rise out of adults and cut out a few days of school.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    If the world(aka PLANET) were ending tomorrow, it should be a time of PEACE, not havok!

    Want to hear a secret? Nearly ALL problems are caused by the uncertainty of TOMORROW! Think about it! People work! They have credit, they keep a good score, people steal, etc.... WHY? Almost always because they are concerned about the future. If a person knew that he would need only $20 for the rest of his life, would he steal? NOPE!

    It is DIFFERENT with "preppers". THEY are afraid that the economy, society, or country may collapse and they and the world remain. They are like joseph in the bible with the 7 years of plenty. He said SAVE UP NOW, for 7 years of DROUGHT is coming! TODAY, he would be considered a "prepper". And they get guns and ammo because if THEY have 1/2 of what they need, and another has nothing, the other wil say they are rich and attack them to get some.

    IMAGINE how simple the world would be if we all knew how much we would need.

    The idea of threats when the world ends makes NO sense. After all, EVERYONE will die ANYWAY!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author esuresh
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      Want to hear a secret? Nearly ALL problems are caused by the uncertainty of TOMORROW!.
      Steve
      I really like this quote. It is 100% true.
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      • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
        Originally Posted by esuresh View Post

        I really like this quote. It is 100% true.
        It certainly is!
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        • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
          I read on Drudge Report that NASA is getting tons of calls, apparently a lot of people are worried (a/k/a frantic) about this. Dec. 21, 2012: Fearful 'end of world' callers flood NASA - latimes.com

          As for me, I'm making my usual plans for Saturday the 22nd.

          What you are experiencing seems to have two causes: One, that people are actually in panic mode and doing stupid things. Two, that rotten people are doing rotten things because they figure they can get away with it, with or without the effects of the supposed apocalypse.

          If the media would not have played up the hype and fed this continually to the public, there would not be as much reaction going on. For some, it's just an opportunity. Even a local paper had a truly stupid article about it the other day.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          There seem to be an increase in threats right after a violent act that is widely discussed on all media outlets.

          Could be kids talking big on Facebook to look important - unbalanced people making real threats - but could in part be schools, neighbors, law enforcement taking any hint or rumor as fact until disproven.

          The Doomsday scenario has been a great headline - an attention getting forum subject. I think many underestimate the number of people who believe this kind of story - and the number of somewhat unbalanced people walking past you every day.
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          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

          I'm going to work on being less condescending
          (Condescending means to talk down to people)
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    It sure is strange that people are taking nonsensical superstitious jibberish that arose out of misinterpretations of Mayan scripts. Yes, even the ancient Mayans didn't believe it (according to a scholar of Mayan culture). It's an invention of hippies and whatnot. It ain't reality.
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Here in Michigan all of Genesse County schools with some in Lapeer County and some in Northern Oakland County, are closed due to threats of violence coupled with alluding to the world ending Friday!

      I can't believe this crazy crap!

      They say at this point it is just precautionary and "real threats" have been made, but none proven. WTH?

      What on earth are we becoming?

      This scares the living daylights out of me! If it turns out to be just a prank, it still is shedding light on some very warped minds!

      Lord have mercy on as all!

      Terra
      Hmmm, similar to 9/11 when they immediately closed down the airports!

      Sorry to hear the hysteria is rampant there! In AU, nothing has changed, probably because most people are running around, trying to get the Xmas shop out of the way!

      But l will keep my eye out for any heavenly sign's or UFO,s, etc!

      Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author whland
    I can't believe it either. Shootings after shootings and threats after threats? I'm shaking my head "no". It's just unbelievable how someone could do things like this.

    Chad
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  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    Critical thinking should be taught in these schools.
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    :)

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    • Profile picture of the author KimW
      Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

      Critical thinking should be taught in these schools.
      It isn't even taught in High School anymore.
      Part of the dumbing down of the American people.
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  • Profile picture of the author RyanEagle
    Seriously, even though the world is obviously not ending anytime soon, I do have to ask myself what this world is coming to when I see stuff like this. People need to have their heads checked out or something.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaolinsteve
      Originally Posted by RyanEagle View Post

      Seriously, even though the world is obviously not ending anytime soon, I do have to ask myself what this world is coming to when I see stuff like this. People need to have their heads checked out or something.
      LOL.

      Agreed. Someone posted an image on Facebook the other day saying the Most Annoying Thing On Facebook Will Be 21/12/2012. I assume they are referencing to this delusional belief.
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      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Okay, the news is reporting that hit lists have been found from various high school students plotting retaliation before the world ends on Friday. Also threats of bombs, shootings and fire. They're coming in all over the place!

        How can these kids think of such things? How can they believe these doomsday prophecies? How can minds so young be so evil and stupid too, for that matter?

        WTH??

        Well, at least my 2 school age granddaughters will be home safe as well as all 5 of my sisters grandkids....

        Terra
        I had a long think about what you said, about how can they do this, etc, and believe that the Mother or the fanatical club she belongs to is the cause!

        His Mother totally convinces her son, the world is going to end soon! Or the group she belongs to does!

        Then he thinks, well if a good chunk of the population is going to die or suffer and die, then l should just put as many of them out of their misery and quickly and humanly as possible.

        That explains why there were virtually no survivors! If he did this for sick reasons, he would have resorted to torture, etc, rather than a quick death!

        No, l believe that brainwashing, was the main cause of this, and unfortunately there could be more.


        Pretty hard to avoid public places in the US at this time, but it may be a good idea tomorrow!

        Shane
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Thanks guys!

          I'm a bit calmer this morning.

          Oh and Joseph,

          That's it, now they have done it. You know how batman took to the bat cave, well I'm heading for the Max cave and become Mad Max the Road Warrior.

          Fear not Miss Terra, I'll stop these evil tyrants.
          Thanks for the laugh!

          There are more schools added to the list as being closed for the rest of the year just 2 days early for Christmas Break. Anyway, details are sketchy at this point, but at least one youth as been apprehended and is being held in a juvenile detention center. Apparently he posted "his particular" plans on Facebook.:rolleyes:

          I've got to run soon, but I'll try to get back on between diaper changes, feedings and potty training. I'm not sure how much more this ole granny can handle, lol!

          Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          I had a long think about what you said, about how can they do this, etc, and believe that the Mother or the fanatical club she belongs to is the cause!

          His Mother totally convinces her son, the world is going to end soon! Or the group she belongs to does!

          Then he thinks, well if a good chunk of the population is going to die or suffer and die, then l should just put as many of them out of their misery and quickly and humanly as possible.

          That explains why there were virtually no survivors! If he did this for sick reasons, he would have resorted to torture, etc, rather than a quick death!

          No, l believe that brainwashing, was the main cause of this, and unfortunately there could be more.


          Pretty hard to avoid public places in the US at this time, but it may be a good idea tomorrow!

          Shane
          I HOPE NOT! I once had a conversation with a coworker. BTW JUST to show this isn't just the US, etc... he was from taiwan. He lamented about how his kid doesn't always obey him but how his BROTHER'S kids always obey HIM! I said I pitied that kid because he doesn't have a mind of his own.

          I have been told, and exposed to, a LOT of things! Some HEINOUS! Some PLEASANT! Some obvious. Some Obscure. Some true. Some false. Some people almost OPENLY try to brainwash me, and some covertly try to brainwash people. SO FAR, I don't think Ihave been affected, other than to become more cynical, waste less time there, and spot some of the covert stuff.

          I really hope MOST escape the brainwashing, etc... If even 10% believe, it is enough to EASILY create the problems we have.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            I really hope MOST escape the brainwashing, etc... If even 10% believe, it is enough to EASILY create the problems we have.

            Steve
            Yeah, l hope that nothing happens in your neck of the woods tomorrow. But as the mass suicides coinciding with the comet, a while ago shows, brainwashing can motivate someone into doing the worst things!

            Or the path to hell, is paved with good intentions!

            Shane
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        • Profile picture of the author Patrician
          Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

          I had a long think about what you said, about how can they do this, etc, and believe that the Mother or the fanatical club she belongs to is the cause!

          His Mother totally convinces her son, the world is going to end soon! Or the group she belongs to does!

          Then he thinks, well if a good chunk of the population is going to die or suffer and die, then l should just put as many of them out of their misery and quickly and humanly as possible.

          That explains why there were virtually no survivors! If he did this for sick reasons, he would have resorted to torture, etc, rather than a quick death!

          No, l believe that brainwashing, was the main cause of this, and unfortunately there could be more.


          Pretty hard to avoid public places in the US at this time, but it may be a good idea tomorrow!

          Shane
          Shane - Maybe you missed the much more logical story on a possible motive - real rinky-dink-people-are-so-shallow stuff -

          Mother volunteered at the school to work with the LITTLE kids - and therefore his Mommy loved them more than she loved him - WHY he offed them.

          WHY he offed her FIRST - she was threatening to have him committed to a mental asylum against his will - very naughty mommy. kill her first.

          By the way one of the small things I get a kick out of is the way AU (OZ) is a day ahead of the rest of the world.

          I always joke and say - wow you are writing to me from tomorrow! It is very heartening to know there will be one.

          (SOOOO - Please be the first to come here on Aussie December 22 (it will still be 21 here in the US to let us know if tommorow actually happens - OR send us a postcard from wherever you land after THE END.)

          hehehehee - you have to laugh at something with all the crazy things people are doing and saying ACTUALLY BEING SO DANGEROUS.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2329508.html
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  • Profile picture of the author ProServices
    OMG!!! If the World is ending on Friday, I'll better complete my client's project and deliver it today. I like to meet Deadlines!
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    eh.. technically, it IS partly the mother's fault.

    She knew something wasn't right with him, yet she did nothing to restrict access to her guns.

    She should have kept them locked in a gun safe, like any responsible gun owner (especially one with children) would tell you to do.

    Other than that, yes - HE is to blame.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      That reminds me of a comment made on a talk show the other night that made me go "Huh?"

      The suggestion was about arming teachers - and it was argued that it would be safe because the gun would have a trigger guard, be locked in combination lock safe and kept in a locked drawer.

      Think about it...you hear shots so you get the key, unlock the drawer, get out the safe and open with the combination you hopefully remember, disable the trigger guard.....not exactly a rapid response.
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

      I'm going to work on being less condescending
      (Condescending means to talk down to people)
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        That reminds me of a comment made on a talk show the other night that made me go "Huh?"

        The suggestion was about arming teachers - and it was argued that it would be safe because the gun would have a trigger guard, be locked in combination lock safe and kept in a locked drawer.

        Think about it...you hear shots so you get the key, unlock the drawer, get out the safe and open with the combination you hopefully remember, disable the trigger guard.....not exactly a rapid response.
        That is nowhere near a rapid response, nor a plausible solution.

        If a teacher is going to be armed, they need to have the best equipment possible.

        I personally would recommend either a GLOCK 19 or a 26.

        The 19 is a compact version of the 17, (the 19 is what I carry) and the 26 is a subcompact version (even smaller) - both the 19 and 26 are very easy to conceal, and like any other model, they are safe.

        As for how to store it, I would also recommend that they use a Fobus holster (that's the kind I have) - it only requires one hand to release it.. and above all, they just need to keep it concealed.

        Don't even let the kids know that you have anything.

        The only way those kids should ever find out that you are, is if you should ever have to protect them with it.

        But arming teachers and then placing all kinds of restrictions on how the weapons should be kept is a horrible idea..

        They don't need all these rules on how to store them. They just need common sense, and the proper equipment.

        There is a school in Texas where they have already been arming their staff for years.. and we've never heard of any stories where the kids got access to them, or where the staff has ever needed to use them.
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        • Profile picture of the author kentah
          I hear they have found an error :rolleyes: in the calculations, the Mayans calender indicates the world is coming to an end in 2021. So the coun down will start all over again on the 22nd.
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          • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
            Originally Posted by kentah View Post

            I hear they have found an error :rolleyes: in the calculations, the Mayans calender indicates the world is coming to an end in 2021. So the coun down will start all over again on the 22nd.
            god please noooooooooooooooooooo!!

            In that case I hope tomorrow really IS the end of the world, because I honestly dunno how many more "predictions" I can take!

            Y2K, Harold Camping, Mayans... UGH just give it a rest!!! :confused:

            Greenville SC area.
            Ahhh! Not too far from here, bout 1 hour or so!
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Here in Upstate SC we'll probably end up rescheduling the End of the World due to rain.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mkcoy
    At the end of the day say what you like. No matter how much you try and laugh it off. There is a very small part of you that is telling you it could be true.

    Unfortunately for some people they take this very small feeling too seriously.

    Now we've survived this date. No doubt these people who I believe have nothing else to believe in will find something else to believe in. Aliens or something. Aliens coming out of the very last French mountain to remain on earth LOL!!

    Visit the only place that will survive the Mayan Apocalypse

    Anyway the Mayans were wiped out by the spanish weren't they?

    What does that tell you?? Didn't predict that did you! :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
      Originally Posted by Mkcoy View Post

      At the end of the day say what you like. No matter how much you try and laugh it off. There is a very small part of you that is telling you it could be true.
      I know - and that is why I currently have 50 2-liters of water saved up, and I'm considering re-filling the pool with fresh water just in case...

      That could be an additional 5k gallons..

      I also have plenty of ammo stocked up in the closet.

      But the truth is, you never know..

      I've always said, better to be safe than sorry!
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Mkcoy View Post

      At the end of the day say what you like. No matter how much you try and laugh it off. There is a very small part of you that is telling you it could be true.
      Actually, no.

      Call me crazy, but I haven't stored up anything more than usual other than buying things in bulk when they are on sale, just like normal.

      At least if something very frightening does happen that scares the crap out of me, I'll have plenty of toilet paper!

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Mkcoy
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Actually, no.
        Terra
        Oh come on. Not even a tiny tiny part of you? You don't know WHAT is real or true in life no more than anybody else.

        You don't know really know for sure so don't be so 100% about everything.

        You have to take everything with a pinch of salt these days agreed. But in the same token, they all laughed at noah....
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Mkcoy View Post

          Oh come on. Not even a tiny tiny part of you? You don't know WHAT is real or true in life no more than anybody else.

          You don't know really know for sure so don't be so 100% about everything.

          You have to take everything with a pinch of salt these days agreed. But in the same token, they all laughed at noah....
          Not even a tiny part of me!

          You see, there is a bit of ancient text I've read and can't get out of my mind...

          Take heed that no one deceives you...Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many...Then if anyone says to you...do not believe it...
          Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author Gozang
    I can't really tell for sure what's going to happen tomorrow but I do know the fact the planets are going to be aligned in a straight line and nobody knows for sure what that's going to bring on us.

    One thing for sure is that tomorrow, I'm not going to buy any wso. Sorry guys who are thinking to promote product tomorrow.

    God bless all of you.
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    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      Shane - Maybe you missed the much more logical story on a possible motive - real rinky-dink-people-are-so-shallow stuff -

      Mother volunteered at the school to work with the LITTLE kids - and therefore his Mommy loved them more than she loved him - WHY he offed them.

      WHY he offed her FIRST - she was threatening to have him committed to a mental asylum against his will - very naughty mommy. kill her first.

      By the way one of the small things I get a kick out of is the way AU (OZ) is a day ahead of the rest of the world.

      I always joke and say - wow you are writing to me from tomorrow! It is very heartening to know there will be one.

      (SOOOO - Please be the first to come here on Aussie December 22 (it will still be 21 here in the US to let us know if tommorow actually happens - OR send us a postcard from wherever you land after THE END.)

      hehehehee - you have to laugh at something with all the crazy things people are doing and saying ACTUALLY BEING SO DANGEROUS.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2329508.html
      Hmmmm, 21st and still here!!!!

      But, good point! And for the record l am not taking sides, just giving a possible reason!

      True it was intimately his decision, but.....:rolleyes:

      And true, she should have locked her guns up!

      I can't really tell for sure what's going to happen tomorrow but I do know the fact the planets are going to be aligned in a straight line and nobody knows for sure what that's going to bring on us.

      One thing for sure is that tomorrow, I'm not going to buy any wso. Sorry guys who are thinking to promote product tomorrow.

      God bless all of you.
      Hmmm, id say the planets did align in such a way that it affected the plasma energy inside the earth, which means that we should slowly notice some pretty weird stuff over the next two years.

      Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author temlawn
    Didn't anybody hear they found new calandars in mayan caves that extend us another 3000 years minimum? Maybe the dude making the calandar got google slapped or hit by the mayan google panda update... Guy just had to stop..lol..
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    • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
      One thing to ponder on is that;

      Each of the shooters for Columbine, Colorado and Sandy Hook were each currently on psychiatric drugs.

      Here's Columbine below:

      "Shooter Eric Harris was taking the antidepressant Luvox at the time he and Dylan Klebold opened fire at Columbine High School, killing 12 students and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves. At least one public report exists of a friend of Klebold who witnessed Klebold taking the antidepressants Paxil and Zoloft and urged him to come off them. Officially, Klebold’s medical records remain sealed."

      Taken From:
      Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Colorado


      The above is just one reference. You can easily Google the other two incidences and see that in all 3 cases the shooters were either on or had been on
      Luvox or Zoloft.

      Here are just a few more for you to deepen your understanding that this is a real problem.

      1. Huntsville, Alabama – February 5, 2010: 15-year-old Hammad Memon shot and killed another Discover Middle School student Todd Brown. Memon had a history for being treated for ADHD and depression. He was taking the antidepressant Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.” He had been seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist.


      2. Kauhajoki, Finland – September 23, 2008: 22-year-old culinary student Matti Saari shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine. He was also seeing a psychologist.


      3. Dekalb, Illinois – February 14, 2008: 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amount of Xanax in his system. He had been seeing a psychiatrist.


      4. Jokela, Finland – November 7, 2007: 18-year-old Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School in southern Finland, then committed suicide.


      5. Cleveland, Ohio – October 10, 2007: 14-year-old Asa Coon stormed through his school with a gun in each hand, shooting and wounding four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon had been placed on the antidepressant Trazodone.


      6. Red Lake, Minnesota – March 2005: 16-year-old Jeff Weise, on Prozac, shot and killed his grandparents, then went to his school on the Red Lake Indian Reservation where he shot dead 7 students and a teacher, and wounded 7 before killing himself.


      7. Greenbush, New York – February 2004: 16-year-old Jon Romano strolled into his high school in east Greenbush and opened fire with a shotgun. Special education teacher Michael Bennett was hit in the leg. Romano had been taking “medication for depression”. He had previously seen a psychiatrist.


      8. Wahluke, Washington – April 10, 2001: Sixteen-year-old Cory Baadsgaard took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates and a teacher hostage. He had been taking the antidepressant Effexor.


      9. El Cajon, California – March 22, 2001: 18-year-old Jason Hoffman, on the antidepressants Celexa and Effexor, opened fire on his classmates, wounding three students and two teachers at Granite Hills High School. He had been seeing a psychiatrist before the shooting.


      10. Williamsport, Pennsylvania – March 7, 2001: 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush was taking the antidepressant Prozac when she shot at fellow students, wounding one.


      11. Conyers, Georgia – May 20, 1999: 15-year-old T.J. Solomon was being treated with the stimulant Ritalin when he opened fire on and wounded six of his classmates.


      12. Columbine, Colorado – April 20, 1999: 18-year-old Eric Harris and his accomplice, Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 26 others before killing themselves. Harris was on the antidepressant Luvox. Klebold’s medical records remain sealed. Both shooters had been in anger-management classes and had undergone counseling. Harris had been seeing a psychiatrist before the shooting.


      13. Notus, Idaho – April 16, 1999: 15-year-old Shawn Cooper fired two shotgun rounds in his school, narrowly missing students. He was taking a prescribed SSRI antidepressant and Ritalin.


      14. Springfield, Oregon – May 21, 1998: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel murdered his parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on students in the cafeteria, killing two and wounding 25. Kinkel had been taking the antidepressant Prozac. Kinkel had been attending “anger control classes” and was under the care of a psychologist.



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      • Profile picture of the author Enfusia
        If we are all going to end we could at least find someone to be nice to before we go. Or Tell one person who you have never told before how much they mean to you. Or tell someone how much you love or care for them.

        That way you don't go out leaving anything undone.

        Patrick
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      • Profile picture of the author Patrician
        Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

        One thing to ponder on is that;

        Each of the shooters for Columbine, Colorado and Sandy Hook were each currently on psychiatric drugs.
        That's so right - we should line up all the incompetent medical 'professional's that have a license to kill - THEY SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. You don't just shuffle people off, giving them lethal weapons like these drugs and don't watch what is happening to them.

        I think this is so highly relevant - more than guns -

        I know it is 'off topic' but someone very close to me has been prescribed these type of drugs under the guise of 'it's just seratonin - perfectly natural - just puts back the chemicals that your brain should be producing'....

        Mixed with all the proxac poison etc. - well lo and behold I nagged about this for years and was so concerned - naturally nobody listens to me -

        UNTIL (a) they get 'seratonin syndrome' (can be FATAL) - an overdose of seratonin! (who knew)? (the MD should have but didn't?) and then (b) the emergency hospital misdiagnosed this and sent her home, which almost did cause her to actually die.

        Thank God somehow she survived after they went to a different hospital and spent several days in intensive care. But now, everybody off the hook, and she has had her dosage adjusted and should be ok. WTF were they thinking year after year????

        POINT IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PRESCRIBING THESE DRUGS DO NOT APPARENTLY EITHER HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE DANGERS OR ARE MALPRACTICING MONSTERS WHO DO NOT CARE WHAT HAPPENS. THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
        Originally Posted by Enfusia View Post

        One thing to ponder on is that;

        Each of the shooters for Columbine, Colorado and Sandy Hook were each currently on psychiatric drugs.

        Here's Columbine below:

        "Shooter Eric Harris was taking the antidepressant Luvox at the time he and Dylan Klebold opened fire at Columbine High School, killing 12 students and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves. At least one public report exists of a friend of Klebold who witnessed Klebold taking the antidepressants Paxil and Zoloft and urged him to come off them. Officially, Klebold’s medical records remain sealed."

        Taken From:
        Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Colorado


        The above is just one reference. You can easily Google the other two incidences and see that in all 3 cases the shooters were either on or had been on
        Luvox or Zoloft.

        Here are just a few more for you to deepen your understanding that this is a real problem.

        1. Huntsville, Alabama – February 5, 2010: 15-year-old Hammad Memon shot and killed another Discover Middle School student Todd Brown. Memon had a history for being treated for ADHD and depression. He was taking the antidepressant Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.” He had been seeing a psychiatrist and psychologist.


        2. Kauhajoki, Finland – September 23, 2008: 22-year-old culinary student Matti Saari shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine. He was also seeing a psychologist.


        3. Dekalb, Illinois – February 14, 2008: 27-year-old Steven Kazmierczak shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amount of Xanax in his system. He had been seeing a psychiatrist.


        4. Jokela, Finland – November 7, 2007: 18-year-old Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School in southern Finland, then committed suicide.


        5. Cleveland, Ohio – October 10, 2007: 14-year-old Asa Coon stormed through his school with a gun in each hand, shooting and wounding four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon had been placed on the antidepressant Trazodone.


        6. Red Lake, Minnesota – March 2005: 16-year-old Jeff Weise, on Prozac, shot and killed his grandparents, then went to his school on the Red Lake Indian Reservation where he shot dead 7 students and a teacher, and wounded 7 before killing himself.


        7. Greenbush, New York – February 2004: 16-year-old Jon Romano strolled into his high school in east Greenbush and opened fire with a shotgun. Special education teacher Michael Bennett was hit in the leg. Romano had been taking “medication for depression”. He had previously seen a psychiatrist.


        8. Wahluke, Washington – April 10, 2001: Sixteen-year-old Cory Baadsgaard took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates and a teacher hostage. He had been taking the antidepressant Effexor.


        9. El Cajon, California – March 22, 2001: 18-year-old Jason Hoffman, on the antidepressants Celexa and Effexor, opened fire on his classmates, wounding three students and two teachers at Granite Hills High School. He had been seeing a psychiatrist before the shooting.


        10. Williamsport, Pennsylvania – March 7, 2001: 14-year-old Elizabeth Bush was taking the antidepressant Prozac when she shot at fellow students, wounding one.


        11. Conyers, Georgia – May 20, 1999: 15-year-old T.J. Solomon was being treated with the stimulant Ritalin when he opened fire on and wounded six of his classmates.


        12. Columbine, Colorado – April 20, 1999: 18-year-old Eric Harris and his accomplice, Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 26 others before killing themselves. Harris was on the antidepressant Luvox. Klebold’s medical records remain sealed. Both shooters had been in anger-management classes and had undergone counseling. Harris had been seeing a psychiatrist before the shooting.


        13. Notus, Idaho – April 16, 1999: 15-year-old Shawn Cooper fired two shotgun rounds in his school, narrowly missing students. He was taking a prescribed SSRI antidepressant and Ritalin.


        14. Springfield, Oregon – May 21, 1998: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel murdered his parents and then proceeded to school where he opened fire on students in the cafeteria, killing two and wounding 25. Kinkel had been taking the antidepressant Prozac. Kinkel had been attending “anger control classes” and was under the care of a psychologist.



        Here's something to ponder over there:

        In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.

        From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

        In 1911, Turkey established gun control.

        From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

        In 1928 Germany established gun control.

        From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

        In 1935 China established gun control.

        From 1948 to 1952, 20-30 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated .

        In 1964 Guatemala established gun control.

        From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

        In 1970 Uganda established gun control.

        From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

        In 1956 Cambodia established gun control.

        From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

        Total number of defenseless civilians rounded up and exterminated during the 20th Century alone following gun control: 56 Million.

        FACT: The country of Switzerland issues every household a gun and provides proper training for its use.

        Result: Switzerland has the lowest firearms-related crime rate of any civilized country in the world.

        FACT: During World War 2 the Japanese decided not to invade America (the continental 48) because they said "in America there is a rifle behind every blade of grass."

        FACT: After the Cold War, former Soviet Union KGB spies told US officials that, while they were confident they would have defeated the United States military, it would have been fruitless to invade the US mainland because they would never successfully defeat the American people due the overwhelming number of armed citizens.

        FACT: The FBI released a full report showing that states and counties that allow concealed handgun permits see violent crime drop every time, at significant rates:

        http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/violent-crime

        http://pjmedia.com/blog/fbi-crime-stats-show-an-armed-public-is-a-safer-public/

        History shows that governments will exploit tragedies to attempt to disarm the people. What could possibly be the reason except for a power grab?

        CONCLUSION:

        With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives, property and freedom.

        “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.”

        -Adolf Hitler, 1942
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        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
          POINT IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PRESCRIBING THESE DRUGS DO NOT APPARENTLY EITHER HAVE A CLUE ABOUT THE DANGERS OR ARE MALPRACTICING MONSTERS WHO DO NOT CARE WHAT HAPPENS. THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
          Nothing new there, doctors only know how to throw drugs at people, with some health warnings, then you are on your own!

          Doesn't matter that you are spending so much on drugs that you have to eat dog food!

          Or as is the case here, it sends some people on a shooting frenzy!

          I can guarantee you that the drug company's behind the doctors are telling them sell as many of our drugs as possible!

          The powerful drug company's are pulling the doctors financial strings, and it's up to the doctors whether or not they, do or not!


          Yeah, Obama needs to look into the drug issue!

          Shane
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        • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
          Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

          Here's something to ponder over there:<snip>
          You forgot (conveniently) to add:

          Australia 1996:

          Conservative Prime Minister and besty of G.W. Bush, John Howard, introduces strict controls on gun ownership in Australia.

          Number of people rounded up and exterminated = 0.
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          • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            You forgot (conveniently) to add:

            Australia 1996:

            Conservative Prime Minister and besty of G.W. Bush, John Howard, introduces strict controls on gun ownership in Australia.

            Number of people rounded up and exterminated = 0.
            Or at least, not yet.... lol

            Why the hell am I up this early?

            Terra, you do this shit daily??? OMG I can't take it.. My eyes feel like they are gonna start bleeding hahaha
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            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
              Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

              Or at least, not yet.... lol

              Why the hell am I up this early?

              Terra, you do this shit daily??? OMG I can't take it.. My eyes feel like they are gonna start bleeding hahaha
              Only since I started doing daycare for my two youngest grand babies about three weeks ago...before then, Heck No! LOL!


              Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
            [DELETED]
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            • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
              Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

              I am impressed by the people and governments of Australia and England. I don't see any proof our elected officials, or our population, can be that civilized and well behaved. I would really like to be wrong on this, and to tell you the truth, I hope I am.
              I guess Australia isn't full of paranoid whack jobs who think the government is out to get them, or spaced out zombies "tripping" on prescribed drugs from their doctors, and the population deplores guns and the havoc they cause. Over 90% of Aussies supported the "controls".

              Mind you, we do like a good punch up.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

            You forgot (conveniently) to add:

            Australia 1996:

            Conservative Prime Minister and besty of G.W. Bush, John Howard, introduces strict controls on gun ownership in Australia.

            Number of people rounded up and exterminated = 0.
            AGAIN, wait until the end of the period to gloat. Such things won't happen immediately.

            Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    My whole childhood I was brought up with warnings of wars and rumors of wars...
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    I guess Australia isn't full of paranoid whack jobs who think the government is out to get them
    I guess you're not too good at world history.

    The entire reason we HAVE a 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms is to protect ourselves FROM our government....

    It is NOT so we can hunt, or shoot for sport, like some people seem to think.
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      The entire reason we HAVE a 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms is to protect ourselves FROM our government....
      Really? I thought the reason you have the 2nd Amendment was to have a "well REGULATED militia" to prevent invasion by other nations.

      You had the French to the north (Canada), and Spanish to the south (Mexico), and you'd just kicked out the only force capable of stopping them (the British).

      According to Wikpedia:

      In no particular order, early American settlers viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and/or state militias as important for one or more of these purposes:
      • deterring tyrannical government; (Your point)
      • repelling invasion; (My point)
      • suppressing insurrection; (Such as by paranoid whack jobs)
      • facilitating a natural right of self-defense; (All of the above)
      • participating in law enforcement; (Lynch mobs?)
      • enabling the people to organize a militia system. (All of the above).
      Which of these considerations they thought were most important, which of these considerations they were most alarmed about, and the extent to which each of these considerations ultimately found expression in the Second Amendment is disputed. Some of these purposes were explicitly mentioned in early state constitutions; for example, the Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776 asserted that, "the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state".
      So, not the ENTIRE reason as you mistakenly claim.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Really? I thought the reason you have the 2nd Amendment was to have a "well REGULATED militia" to prevent invasion by other nations.
        Everyone forgets that clue that the 2nd amendment is like the other 9 and a ****REMOVAL**** of a "right". The clue? "Shall NOT be infringed.".

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    ok, not the "entire" reason - but the point is, it is there to protect ourselves from tyranny.

    I'd say that means we have a reason to be paranoid about the govt... wouldn't you?
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    • Profile picture of the author whateverpedia
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      ok, not the "entire" reason - but the point is, it is there to protect ourselves from tyranny.

      I'd say that means we have a reason to be paranoid about the govt... wouldn't you?
      Cautious, yes.

      Vigilant, yes.

      Skeptical, yes.

      Paranoid, no.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
        Originally Posted by whateverpedia View Post

        Cautious, yes.

        Vigilant, yes.

        Skeptical, yes.

        Paranoid, no.

        You may not need to be vigilant and skeptical in Australia, but a few things have happened here to make you think twice...
        Partial list of U.S. Government Atrocities on Its Own People

        1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.

        1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.

        1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occurred within poverty-stricken black populations.

        1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.

        1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.

        1943 In response to Japan s full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.

        1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.

        1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States. Program F is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.

        1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word experiments to investigations or observations whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation s veteran s hospitals.

        1947 Colonel E.E. Kirpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects. The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.

        1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates. In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Francisco. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms. Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.

        1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents. Joint Army - Navy - CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands fo people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii. CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the sub projects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.

        1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army s biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, FL. Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.

        1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, GA. and Avon Park, FL. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

        1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army s Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.

        1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRDCHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

        1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.

        1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

        1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals. U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when Army scientists drop light-bulbs filled with the bacteria on to ventilation grates.

        1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.

        1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

        1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from Congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

        1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the Army s top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS- like viruses. United States intensifies its development of ethnic weapons (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

        1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick s Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI). It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retro-virologist isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

        1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.

        1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.

        1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine.

        1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.

        1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retro virus to which no natural immunity exists. A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government s current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.

        1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.

        1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and Hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an experimental measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.

        1994 With a technique called gene tracking, Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX. discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made. Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials include mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psycho chemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War.

        1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research. Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, Tx. and Boca Raton, FL. And tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.

        1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.

        1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bio-weapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.

        Before we ask what the heck is wrong with the kids, we have to ask what the HELL is wrong with the responsible adults over here first.
        Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author Thomas
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Here's something to ponder over there:

      In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.

      From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

      In 1911, Turkey established gun control.

      From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

      In 1928 Germany established gun control.

      From 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

      In 1935 China established gun control.

      From 1948 to 1952, 20-30 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated .

      In 1964 Guatemala established gun control.

      From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

      In 1970 Uganda established gun control.

      From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

      In 1956 Cambodia established gun control.

      From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

      Total number of defenseless civilians rounded up and exterminated during the 20th Century alone following gun control: 56 Million.
      Here's something else to ponder over...

      Those "correlations" are nonsense; what happened in the Soviet Union after 1953? Did the Soviet government suddenly re-introduce guns enmasse, allowing people to thereby stop themselves being "rounded up and exterminated"?

      Same for Turkey after 1917... and China after 1952... and all the rest.

      And much of it isn't even true anyway: For example, Germany didn't "establish gun control" in 1928... it actually relaxed gun laws.

      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      FACT: The country of Switzerland issues every household a gun and provides proper training for its use.

      Result: Switzerland has the lowest firearms-related crime rate of any civilized country in the world.
      Stuff you forgot to mention:

      1. All Swiss militiamen do keep their government-issued weapons at home... but they don't get any ammunition. Only specialist units (which number only a few thousand) do.

      2. When they finish their service, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon but only after they are modified to removed the automatic function.

      3. Weapons in Switzerland are licensed by the government, who controls and keeps tracks of everything. It (the government) can step in at any time and remove weapons from individuals. If anything, Switzerland is a good model for gun control.

      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      FACT: During World War 2 the Japanese decided not to invade America (the continental 48) because they said "in America there is a rifle behind every blade of grass."
      The Japanese did not try to invade the continental United States because they never had the capacity to do so, and had even less capacity to do so once hostilities had begun. And, even if they did, armed civilians wouldn't have stopped them - when faced with conventional military forces, armed civilians are, at worst, an inconvenience, mostly because they are so unorganised (a million guns are not much use when they're all pointed in a million different directions).

      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      FACT: After the Cold War, former Soviet Union KGB spies told US officials that, while they were confident they would have defeated the United States military, it would have been fruitless to invade the US mainland because they would never successfully defeat the American people due the overwhelming number of armed citizens.
      The Soviets were about as interested in invading the US as the US were in trying to invade the USSR (which is to say, not very); neither had the capacity, the money, or the desire to do so... and both countries say they only ever built up their large nuclear aresenals because they were afraid of attack by the other.

      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      The entire reason we HAVE a 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms is to protect ourselves FROM our government....
      It would be pretty useless for that purpose; the reason armed state forces can (and do) overpower any civilian armed group so quickly is not because of weapons (although the government will always out-gun and out-man you anyway)... it's organisation. The military is (organised); civilians usually aren't (even when they think they are).

      Take Iraq, for example, where civilians are probably even more heavily armed than American civilians are. But that didn't stop the multiple instances of foreign interference in their country over the last century or more, didn't stop Saddam coming to power, didn't stop his gross abuses of the population, didn't stop the US invasion, and didn't stop US forces simply (and often instantly) killing anyone that tried to resist in exactly the way that US-based proponents of an armed civilian populace fantasise will make even a blind bit of difference if the situation were reversed, and it was American civilians on the receiving end of hard state power.
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

        (a million guns are not much use when they're all pointed in a million different directions).
        I really don't wish to get in the middle of this debate, because quite honestly I don't know enough information about it. But one thing I do know is that what I've quoted above is completely wrong.

        I'm quite confident that if those million guns were in a complete circle facing outward, surrounding something I was protecting, they would indeed be of much use and would be quite successful, I might add.


        Terra
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas
          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

          I really don't wish to get in the middle of this debate, because quite honestly I don't know enough information about it. But one thing I do know is that what I've quoted above is completely wrong.

          I'm quite confident that if those million guns were in a complete circle facing outward, surrounding something I was protecting, they would indeed be of much use and would be quite successful, I might add.
          Not really, Terra; if you did have a million guns in a complete circle facing out, then yes, you could do a pretty good job of defending X, whatever X (at the centre of the circle) might be.

          The government (or whomever the baddie might be in whatever scenario you can think of) will most likely still pound you into the ground via superior firepower anyway, but you could still put up a pretty good fight should that level of organisation exist... but that's my point - it doesn't exist in the civilian populace (anywhere, not just in the US).

          The only level of organisation that exists anywhere (in the world) to put up a fight like that is the state itself, which is the same baddie everyone seems to be afraid of.
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

        It would be pretty useless for that purpose; the reason armed state forces can (and do) overpower any civilian armed group so quickly is not because of weapons (although the government will always out-gun and out-man you anyway)... it's organisation. The military is (organised); civilians usually aren't (even when they think they are).
        That was NOT true in 1776, and might not be in 2020, if civilians can keep guns. Some countries, such as china, have attacked unarmed people. Tiananmen Square, anyone? BESIDES, are you going to argue against protections in riots and burglaries? If so, please check actual real reports of things FIRST!

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          That was NOT true in 1776, and might not be in 2020, if civilians can keep guns. Some countries, such as china, have attacked unarmed people. Tiananmen Square, anyone? BESIDES, are you going to argue against protections in riots and burglaries? If so, please check actual real reports of things FIRST!
          Except is was true in the 1770s, until the American colonists began receiving help from the state forces of at least 3 different nations, and began to achieve of level of organisation that equates to a conventional military force. The later battles in the American War of Independence were not a rag-tag group of rebels against the might of the British Empire as popular fiction portrays it... they were British troops against an American force that had got it's act together thanks to foreign military advisors, and were backed up by very substantial numbers of combat troops from France (and other nations), along with the might of the French Navy.

          In modern terms, that would be like the very ineffective "rebels" in Syria who were being slaughtered left, right, and centre... until they suddenly began receiving training and supplies from "outside sources". All of a sudden, they're winning battles against the state forces in Syria and, were they now to be openly backed up by NATO, or even just Turkey (for example), they would likely be victorious in a matter of a few months, if not weeks. (I'm not equating the two, before someone jumps down my neck for it! It's just a modern example.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    I'm sure there are some things missing from what I posted last night - It was a copy/paste, lol

    However having a few errors doesn't negate the whole post. There is a LOT of TRUTH in that.

    Either way, I'm not turning this thread into another gun control debate. We had a good enough time doing that in the last one, and the mods were kind enough to only lock the thread instead of removing it altogether.

    So anyone who wants to read a good debate about gun control, I'm sure you know which thread I'm talking about. It's still there for you to see.

    Just know that my position on them isn't going to change - and I don't expect anyone else's to change either.

    I honestly didn't even plan on bringing this stuff up in here until someone else posted something about it that I felt I should chime in on.

    So getting back on topic here, I really don't know what the hell is wrong with kids today..

    Maybe it really IS from a lack of religion in today's society.. I don't agree with that either tho, since religion has been (and still is) the cause of a LOT of turmoil, AND because I'm not a religious person myself - and I don't go around doing these crazy things..

    Maybe it IS due to the violence in video games, shows, movies, etc..

    Maybe it IS the pharmaceutical companies that are shoving drugs down our throats every chance they get to make a profit..

    I just don't know. But there is definitely a cause somewhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    David,

    I have ONE disagreement with your post. hey WEREN'T responsible under the understood meaning of reasonable and trustworthy. Responsible unfortunately is an odd word in that it can ALSO mean GUILTY, but guilty people are guilty, so that i out of context with your statements.

    1.a : liable to be called on to answer
    b (1) : liable to be called to account as the primary cause, motive, or agent <a committee responsible for the job> (2) : being the cause or explanation <mechanical defects were responsible for the accident>
    c : liable to legal review or in case of fault to penalties
    2
    a : able to answer for one's conduct and obligations : trustworthy
    b : able to choose for oneself between right and wrong
    3
    : marked by or involving responsibility or accountability <responsible financial policies>
    4
    : politically answerable; especially : required to submit to the electorate if defeated by the legislature —used especially of the British cabinet

    And Thomas. It really wasn't that bad. Apparently there was a big problem with ships, but there were some stories about THAT as well. I think the Americans gave as good as they got. America was just starting out, and was probably behind the times in supplies, etc... so OF COURSE they went elsewhere for supplies. Still, they COULD! Having a naval superiority in this case really didn't mean much.

    France, Spain and the Dutch Republic all secretly provided supplies, ammunition and weapons to the revolutionaries starting early in 1776. By June 1776 the Americans were in full control of every state, but then the British Royal Navy captured New York City and made it their main base. The war became a standoff. The Royal Navy could occupy other coastal cities for brief periods, but the rebels controlled the countryside, where 90 percent of the population lived. British strategy relied on mobilizing Loyalist militia, and was never fully realized. A British invasion from Canada in 1777 ended in the capture of the British army at the Battles of Saratoga. That American victory persuaded France to enter the war openly in early 1778, balancing the two sides' military strength. Spain and the Dutch Republic—French allies—also went to war with Britain over the next four years, threatening an invasion of Great Britain and severely testing British military strength with campaigns in Europe. Spain's involvement resulted in the expulsion of British armies from West Florida, securing the American southern flank. The decisive British naval victory at the Battle of the Saintes thwarted French and Spanish plans to drive Britain out of the Caribbean, and the joint Franco-Spanish attempt to capture the British stronghold of Gibraltar also resulted in similar defeat.
    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      I think the references to Australia are worth checking out.

      Editorial: Australian gun control holds lessons for U.S.

      We have a weakness in the US to assume our "way" is automatically better than what other countries do. We have had years as a world leader in social issues, in economy, in ideas and development of those ideas.

      When another society's gun control is mentioned, we often point to our constitution and we point out "our country is much bigger so that wouldn't work here".

      Australia's pretty big (:p) and they attacked gun problems head on. I'm not advocating the same here - but it's worth looking at to see how the Aussies got it done.

      When our school kids are far below top of the list and we have more gun violence than other country....maybe we aren't doing things best these days. Maybe we can learn from what other societies have done and DO something to solve problems instead of arguing endlessly about the same problems year after year.

      We can't stop mass violence until we do something more than face saving or partisan bickering or bandaid regulations. When saving children and innocent citizens becomes more important than "being right" - we might wise up and find real solutions we can all live with.
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

      I'm going to work on being less condescending
      (Condescending means to talk down to people)
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