Brilliant or Criminal? Or Both?

11 years ago

I'm surprised he didn't set up a VPN from his apartment and then give the Chinese guy access that way. If he had the company would have thought he was logging in from home and they wouldn't have become suspicious.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Free Special Report on Mindset - Level Up with Positive Thinking

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7617626].message }}

mattjay

11 years ago

I guess the question is, if it were you, would you do it? Honestly I don't know. I'd like to say no, but honestly, i outsource some things in my business and it's profitable.

Now i'm not sure i would do so in a corporate job, but hey, who knows? sounds like the guy had some things figured out and made money, and not only that, he TECHNICALLY did his job and did it well. Even if it was only a management role.

This is a tricky one lol

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7617669].message }}

PPC-Coach

11 years ago

Well depends on his contract.

IF the company hired him to do the job, but didn't really specific if he could or could not outsource it, then that's on them.

I smell new terms in contracts though in the future!

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

The New Facebook Pixel Got You Down?
Click Here For A Brand New Guide

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7617679].message }}

seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by PPC-Coach

Well depends on his contract.

IF the company hired him to do the job, but didn't really specific if he could or could not outsource it, then that's on them.

I smell new terms in contracts though in the future!

Well, it is NOT the employers job to specify such things. Traditions, law, and EVERY contract I have seen(Over 30 companies I have PERSONALLY worked at, added to DOZENS that obviously must, etc...) had a contract saying NOT to divulge proprietary or confidential info or credentials. Many workers are REQUIRED to take tests and many cover such things. Punishments include lawsuits and TERMINATION. ALSO, prior to about 2000, shipment of such a fob to another country from the US was a felony. It was ACTUALLY considered a MUNITION!!!!!!

Export of cryptography in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am VERY sure it was AFTER 1992, but wikipedia says:

"Since World War II, many governments, including the U.S. and its NATO allies, have regulated the export of cryptography for national security considerations, and, as late as 1992, cryptography was on the U.S. Munitions List as an Auxiliary Military Technology.[1]"!

GOT THAT!?!?!? A MUNITION! Granted, you USUALLY here the word AM-MUNITION, but Munition is so much more. Most MUNITIONS make what is often seen as ammunition like peas for a peashooter!

Steve

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7617868].message }}

mattjay

11 years ago

Indeed PPC LOL how many of those job titles could you grab if it cost you 1/4 or your salary to do the job lol

Thanks

Signature

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7617683].message }}

marketingva

11 years ago

This topic has been discussed at length the past couple of days at http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...s-himself.html

Bonnie

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Magic Wand Author Services helps writers polish their manuscripts and connect to readers.
http://www.mwauthorservices.com

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7617767].message }}

SteveSRS 11 years ago

Originally Posted by marketingva

This topic has been discussed at length the past couple of days at http://www.warriorforum.com/off-topi...s-himself.html

Bonnie

Ah crap your right never saw that topic.. my fault.. if mods can merge them or something would be best.

I would also say both as the biggest mistake he made is share confidential data.. other then that I don't think the 'idea' is wrong.. I do think he could be in some serious trouble..
- Thanks
Signature

Recurring Proven SEO Business Model Rent Out Your (Local) Sites and YT vids

Give you AD Funnel Super Power!
ADConnect.io - Lower CPC. Sky-Rocket Conversions!!
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619170].message }}

seasoned

11 years ago

HEY, GREAT IDEA, since you guys think that guy was so smart. I submit that he wasn't smart AT ALL!!!!!! Verizon IS, I believe, an ILEC! There is a FEDERAL LAW that requires ILECS to SUPPORT CLECS! SO, if VERIZON IS an ILEC, they are supporting CLECS! BTW The law was passed LONG ago as part of the AT&T breakup. One job I had was with Frontier, ANOTHER ILEC, And one of my projects was a database showing the costs and income from CLECS. It is similar to verisigns relationship with companies like godaddy. Verisign is effectively an ILEC, and godaddy is effectively a CLEC that verisign is REQUIRED BY LAW to support.

SO, as an employee, and "programmer", the jerk that outsourced could maybe get verizon to believe HE was a CLEC, and support HIM! MAYBE, he could get verizon to do it AT COST! The law requires ONLY that ILECS provide support to CLECS at a price below the market.

The person in question could THEN basically run a phone company supported by verizon, and UNDERCUT THEM!

HEY, SAME THING! And he would make MORE money! IMAGINE, being able to provide the SAME service at a LOWER cost, and with FEWER expenses! and HEY, since he allowed that chinese guy to see all that illegal info, why not take verizons customer list, and market to THEM!!!!!?????

Steve

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7617903].message }}

kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

HEY, GREAT IDEA, since you guys think that guy was so smart. I submit that he wasn't smart AT ALL!!!!!! Verizon IS, I believe, an ILEC! There is a FEDERAL LAW that requires ILECS to SUPPORT CLECS! SO, if VERIZON IS an ILEC, they are supporting CLECS! BTW The law was passed LONG ago as part of the AT&T breakup. One job I had was with Frontier, ANOTHER ILEC, And one of my projects was a database showing the costs and income from CLECS. It is similar to verisigns relationship with companies like godaddy. Verisign is effectively an ILEC, and godaddy is effectively a CLEC that verisign is REQUIRED BY LAW to support.

SO, as an employee, and "programmer", the jerk that outsourced could maybe get verizon to believe HE was a CLEC, and support HIM! MAYBE, he could get verizon to do it AT COST! The law requires ONLY that ILECS provide support to CLECS at a price below the market.

The person in question could THEN basically run a phone company supported by verizon, and UNDERCUT THEM!

HEY, SAME THING! And he would make MORE money! IMAGINE, being able to provide the SAME service at a LOWER cost, and with FEWER expenses! and HEY, since he allowed that chinese guy to see all that illegal info, why not take verizons customer list, and market to THEM!!!!!?????

Steve

In a layman's terms.. it does appear smart.

In real life terms . it level or higher. its more like wtf were you thinking.
Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

I have dealt with people who have tried to pull off similar scams.
I say scam .... because it cost me money, and it provided an opening
to the REAL bad people.

BUT to be honest. I DO NOT thin k i would have fired him.

I would have moved him ... Possibly even had him teach others a few things about management,

And yeah... overseas VPN.. ... just f'n stupid.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619246].message }}

John Durham

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

BUT to be honest. I DO NOT thin k i would have fired him.

I would have moved him ... Possibly even had him teach others a few things about management,
.

I once heard a reference to some business man whose employee made a huge mistake that cost a half million dollars or something, and the guy said "I guess Im fired?"

The employer said "What? It just cost me a half million dollars to train you what not to do, of course you arent fired". So some others who are successful share your type of thinking.

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619258].message }}

kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

I once heard a reference to some business man whose employee made a huge mistake that cost a half million dollars or something, and the guy said "I guess Im fired?"

The employer said "What? It just cost me a half million dollars to train you what not to do, of course you arent fired". So some others who are successful share your type of thinking.

about 15 years or so ago i had a girl who worked for me.

i cant even tell you how bad she messed up. the amount of money she lost me
was not calculable, because we were dealing with a new client.

BUT. she made us lose the Jurassic Park client ...

enough said on that ... right ? 3 years she was with us. We spent so much time and effort in training we THOUGHT even tho she messed up it would work out in our
benefit.

we were wrong, few months later her direct influence lost our BIGGEST client of the moment ... SAME FRIGGIN mistake.

I did fire then, i had no choice.

a few times i know for a fact i should have fired . i did not.. i thought maybe the loyalty... maybe the history ... maybe .. something would be beneficial to us ( the company ).

i think it may have worked to my advantage 1 time.

i have since learned.... there is no loyalty ... no history... no maybe.

kill it when you can... its what i learned... and my new motto.

it seams to me , the REAL lessons are ALWAYS learned the hard way.

Thanks

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619280].message }}

MoneyMagnetMagnate

11 years ago

Just offhand - I'd say both...

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7618840].message }}

John Durham 11 years ago

Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate

Just offhand - I'd say both...

Ditto- Leaning toward brilliant.
- Thanks
{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619225].message }}

John Durham

11 years ago

Yeah, everytime I have ever held onto someone my gut instinct told me to fire it was the wrong decision. Maybe that businessman I referred to wasnt so smart after all.

I had the same thing happen when I hired a guy and his girlfriend together, well actually he already worked for me, and later talked me into hiring her. Disaster.

He was great, top caller, before his GF showed up then he went downhill, ultimately later I put her in a different department, and she got mad at me one day and called my own biggest client and talked crud about our company and lost them. I should have followed my gut instinct and not hired her, or at least fired her at the first sign of Jims performance suffering.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619288].message }}

kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

Yeah, everytime I have ever held onto someone my gut instinct told me to fire it was the wrong decision.

yeah same here.

I am a human lie detector. BUT for some reason i fail at that most basic task when it comes to employees.

and what is REALLY weird is i do it in personal life too.

For instance. I have learned if i meet you... and i really like you... you are going to really hurt me at some point... financially, emotionally.. something.

BUT...

if I DO NOT LIKE you when i first meet you ...

they are awesome, they don't hurt me... in fact THEY are the ones to help me when i need it.... and no one else is around... and eventually become long term friends i can implicitly trust.

weird eh ?

i don't know if that is just me or not.

[ 2 ] Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619335].message }}

seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

yeah same here.

I am a human lie detector. BUT for some reason i fail at that most basic task when it comes to employees.

and what is REALLY weird is i do it in personal life too.

For instance. I have learned if i meet you... and i really like you... you are going to really hurt me at some point... financially, emotionally.. something.

BUT...

if I DO NOT LIKE you when i first meet you ...

they are awesome, they don't hurt me... in fact THEY are the ones to help me when i need it.... and no one else is around... and eventually become long term friends i can implicitly trust.

weird eh ?

i don't know if that is just me or not.

You tend to trust the ones you REALLY like too much. I worked at one place, and this guy did almost everything it seemed to torment me. I HATED him! One day, I had a problem, and decided to have it checked out with an invasive exam. I should probably have made a stink about it, and started a huge lawsuit against them. They kept changing their story, etc.... NO real information, and I couldn't very well give the REQUIRED BY LAW informed consent. Anyway, I ended up STUCK. I found I needed a FRIEND! I could NOT, according to their FINAL statements, have ANYONE like a taxidriver! OH, and did I mention I couldn't eat for like 2 days!

Well, that guy I really disliked offered. I thought "YEAH RIGHT!" But I had NO choice! I was in a strange area, no real friends. etc... And I HATE putting people out! I ACCEPTED!

He was nice, and, get this!!!!!!!!!!!! He EVEN got me a lot of FOOD and drinks!!!!! I never asked him to or anything else. It turns out the hospital wasn't as concerned about my privacy as they should have been, and he found out the whole story. He apparently only told ONE coworker, when HE had the same concerns! he suggested tht THAT coworker talk to me about it.

Steve

[ 1 ] Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619991].message }}

John Durham

11 years ago

Strange how that works, indeed. No you arent alone there.

Although I did recently try and befriend someone ( you may know who I mean but maybe not), who I didnt like at first, and then I gave them the benefit of the doubt and started giving them props, and I saw them commit mutiny to the whole offline crew, now I dont like them again.

Its a "HER" (I think. Who knows these days by an avatar?).

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619348].message }}

kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

Strange how that works, indeed. No you arent alone there.

Although I did recently try and befriend someone ( you may know who I mean but maybe not), who I didnt like at first, and then I gave them the benefit of the doubt and started giving them props, and I saw them commit mutiny to the whole crew, now I dont like them again.

Its a HER.

sorry bro, i have no clue who you are talking about..

and that is fine.. i don't need to know.

I know for a fact curiosity really did kill the cat.
I was sad for months.

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619355].message }}

John Durham

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

sorry bro, i have no clue who you are talking about..

and that is fine.. i don't need to know.

I know for a fact curiosity really did kill the cat.
I was sad for months.

Well its just as well. Just made the "her" distinction, so you would know the people I WASNT referring to. Lack of loyalty is hard for me to swallow. If you have nothing else have loyalty.

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

wait a min... I do know.

or at least I do...

she was abrasive and rude... like most ego ridden sales people...
just her lack of ...uhhhhmmm... tack fullness, made her appear real.

yeah... i totally know what your talking about..

and

Yes. it appears you DO know.

Someone never told her not to bite the hand that feeds her. You bite the crew, you are my enemy.

Thanks
2 replies

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619363].message }}

tagiscom

11 years ago

Yeah, the thing about scam artists, is they know what to say and do, to suck you in.

They may seem perfect initially, but turn out to be full of **** long term.

I learned that recently by buying a product, with someone who claims he wanted to help people, but wouldn't show his earnings, or real earnings of his testimonial posts!

Should have forgotten about it there, but l got suckered in, since it made sense, but month later, it is basically a joke!

Most systems that are SEO, based, are usually slow, and have a low probability of success, (unless you test it to death).

So, lesson learned!

But yeah, certainly many opportunities there, to outsource, and charge more, but in this situation, he may have been pushing the rule, book!

Shane

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Archimedes Forum, Sign up l won't bite

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619398].message }}

kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Yeah, the thing about scam artists, is they know what to say and do, to suck you in.

They may seem perfect initially, but turn out to be full of **** long term.

I learned that recently by buying a product, with someone who claims he wanted to help people, but wouldn't show his earnings, or real earnings of his testimonial posts!

Should have forgotten about it there, but l got suckered in, since it made sense, but month later, it is basically a joke!

Most systems that are SEO, based, are usually slow, and have a low probability of success, (unless you test it to death).

So, lesson learned!

But yeah, certainly many opportunities there, to outsource, and charge more, but in this situation, he may have been pushing the rule, book!

Shane

hey i agree.... but i don't... if you bought something from me.. 1 dollar
or 10000 dollars, and then you asked me what ... I MADE...
i would ignore you AND hope you went away and did not ask again.

seriously.

why.

because what i have... what i sell... what you understand... what your willing to do.

IS NOT THE SAME.

kapish?

i hope so.

to my knowledge i never sold you any thing.
i really prefer to keep it that way.

[ 1 ] Thanks

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619432].message }}

kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

Well its just as well. Just made the "her" distinction, so you would know the people I WASNT referring to. Lack of loyalty is hard for me to swallow. If you have nothing else have loyalty.

Yes. it appears you DO know.

Someone never told her not to bite the hand that feeds her. You bite the crew, you are my enemy.

so sad ... i had pretty high hopes. I have been lurking for a few month...
haven't had too much to say.. been really sick.. and a few other things as well.

it IS the slow time for my bizz.... then i got sick... then fam got sick.. then when i thought i was ready for work.. bamm i was sick again.. that happened like 5 times.

then two weeks ago... as i thought i was getting better .... my kids teacher told me my boy has lazy eye.

I was shell shocked. I brought him to a surgeon.
he does NOT have lazy eye.

but let me tell you ... the stress .. was crazy.. i was not able to focus

ALL THE fam members were botching.. saying take him in now.

seriously.. about 20 peeps bitching per day// i am guessing... 30 min ... MIN
they er ALL wrong... god bless America//

F''''ers

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619403].message }}

John Durham

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

so sad ... i had pretty high hopes. I have been lurking for a few month...
haven't had too much to say.. been really sick.. and a few other things as well.

it IS the slow time for my bizz.... then i got sick... then fam got sick.. then when i thought i was ready for work.. bamm i was sick again.. that happened like 5 times.

then two weeks ago... as i thought i was getting better .... my kids teacher told me my boy has lazy eye.

I was shell shocked. I brought him to a surgeon.
he does NOT have lazy eye.

but let me tell you ... the stress .. was crazy.. i was not able to focus

ALL THE fam members were botching.. sayong take him in now.

seriously.. about 20 peeps bitching per day// i am guessing... 30 min ... MIN
they er ALL wrong... god bless America//

F''''ers

When I was a kid I was skipping home from school one day , playing "step on a crack and break your mothers back" trying not to step on the cracks...and a little poem popped into my head that sounds so stupid, but I still say it to this day, (not out loud) and it never went away. As an adult I have found it to be so true.

"When it rains it pours, this much is true, but sometimes it rains good things too".

It's just a cycle bro, it will pass then the good rains will come again.

For me too!

Thanks

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619419].message }}

kenmichaels

11 years ago

wait a min... I do know.

or at least think I do...

she is abrasive and rude... like most ego ridden ... successful.... sales people...
just her lack of ...uhhhhmmm... tack fullness, made her appear real.

yeah... i totally know what your talking about..

and TBO due to the way of she responses, I THOUGHT SHE was for real too.

actually i still think she is. BUT like many decent /good /awesome sales peeps...
she sucks at bizz acumen.

was that enough info for you to know if i am on the same track as you ???

Thanks

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619360].message }}

John Durham

11 years ago

@ Ken,

Whatever I make or dont, the people I sell to make money, and the ones that dont have every opportunity to, if they are willing to be as committed the ones who do, whether that's a web page or an informational report.

What I personally make at any given time is irrelevant, as long as my product is effective.

[ 1 ] Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619487].message }}

kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by John Durham

What I personally make at any given time is irrelevant, as long as my product is effective.

awesome brotha... awesome.

I need to go now.
I will ttyasap

Thanks
1 reply

Signature

Selling Ain't for Sissies!

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619503].message }}

John Durham

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

awesome brotha... awesome.

I need to go now.
I will ttyasap

.....L8ter

Thanks
1 reply

{{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7619520].message }}

tagiscom

11 years ago

hey i agree.... but i don't... if you bought something from me.. 1 dollar
or 10000 dollars, and then you asked me what ... I MADE...
i would ignore you AND hope you went away and did not ask again.

seriously.

why.

because what i have... what i sell... what you understand... what your willing to do.

IS NOT THE SAME.

kapish?

i hope so.

to my knowledge i never sold you any thing.
i really prefer to keep it that way.

Yeah, fair enough, if it works, and your word is gold, then you don't have to prove anything!

I am sure if l had a way that was 100% effective, for everyone who tried it, then l mightn't bother with proving what l earned.

But for everyone who tried it, only a very small percentage were able to get it to work, then l would probably move on to something with a better strike rate.

I would rather not tell someone to go out and make a site that's churns out a lot of money, when almost 90% can't!

When l could instead tell, or sell someone a way of researching a product so it has a great chance of selling well!

But, yeah, l wouldn't disclose how much l earned, but would happily tell people that the first product l created, sold well, or had a market that was interested. Not necessarily exact earnings, etc.

I suppose that is where you are coming from??? :confused:

I would personally create a WSO with a very high chance of success if they bothered putting in the effort than something which is SEO based, that could require an expert level of knowledge to get worthwhile results!:rolleyes:

Shane