64 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
64 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Welfare Mum/grandma in the UK, 39, never worked a day in her life.

by TimPhelan
51 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
    • |
She's 39 and has never worked a day in her life. Now her daughter's on welfare also. :/

  • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
    Banned
    Well, what can you do?

    That is the state of the world.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7677634].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Well, she's been on welfare for over 20 years. There's been some good economies in that time.
      Originally Posted by SandraLarkin View Post

      Well, what can you do?

      That is the state of the world.
      Signature
      Over 50 Dating
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7677668].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author bravo75
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Well, she's been on welfare for over 20 years. There's been some good economies in that time.
        Being a single mum dole mole is a career choice in Britain.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7677676].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author KimW
          Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

          Being a single mum dole mole is a career choice in Britain.
          And in America too.
          Signature

          Read A Post.
          Subscribe to a Newsletter
          KimWinfrey.Com

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7680483].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

          Being a single mum dole mole is a career choice in Britain.
          Sadly true.

          They're trying gradually to change that. I think. (No political point, there: both the previous government and the current one were/are trying gradually to change it, I think). It's difficult and slow. Especially in this economy. And to change things like this effectively, without making themselves "unelectable next time", also isn't trivial. Call me naive, but I think they're mostly well-intentioned, overall.

          Originally Posted by Josh Monroe View Post

          Another thing they need to do is to stop immigrants coming into the country from the EU and claiming benefits.
          That's certainly the general consensus of opinion (though it's actually difficult and pretty unusual for them to be able to claim benefits as soon as they arrive, as some people - including the Daily Mail - mistakenly imagine and/or encourage others to accept unquestioningly).

          Of course, some people also go from the UK to other EU countries and claim various benefits there, too: it's not entirely one-way traffic.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7680937].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            Sadly true.

            They're trying gradually to change that. I think. (No political point, there: both the previous government and the current one were/are trying gradually to change it, I think). It's difficult and slow. Especially in this economy. And to change things like this effectively, without making themselves "unelectable next time", also isn't trivial. Call me naive, but I think they're mostly well-intentioned, overall.

            That's certainly the general consensus of opinion (though it's actually difficult and pretty unusual for them to be able to claim benefits as soon as they arrive, as some people - including the Daily Mail - mistakenly imagine and/or encourage others to accept unquestioningly). Of course, some people also go from the UK to other EU countries and claim benefits there, too: it's not entirely one-way traffic.
            If they go to an EU country(using Euros) and do this, it could affect the euros, and possibly other nations in the EU.

            Steve
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7681010].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
              Another thing they need to do is to stop immigrants coming into the country from the EU and claiming benefits. Even the thought of them being able to do so is ridiculous.
              We get this in AU as well, basically a large part go on the dole, but more importantly a small percentage will go for the jobs, most Australians won't touch!

              Shopping trolley collectors, are the first to come to mind!

              So, good or bad, this won't end!

              Shane
              Signature
              Archimedes-The Truth Seekers Forum..
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7681624].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                We get this in AU as well, basically a large part go on the dole, but more importantly a small percentage will go for the jobs, most Australians won't touch!

                Shopping trolley collectors, are the first to come to mind!

                So, good or bad, this won't end!

                Shane
                By shopping trolley, I assume you mean the carts for a supermarket and the like. Contrary to the MYTH, white americans ARE willing and DO do such things. And I have seen white americans working in sewers, and as garbagemen. I bet australians would be willing to do that also!

                Anyway, cut back on welfare, and watch the demographics CHANGE! You know, denmark did a study and when they cut the length of support in half, people found jobs that much quicker!

                Steve
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7682008].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SandraLarkin
        Banned
        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

        Well, she's been on welfare for over 20 years. There's been some good economies in that time.
        No, no. I'm 100% blaming this on her. I meant that is the state of the world, as in there are people that believe they can get away with this, and do.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7677681].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author bravo75
    20,000$ a year and she's struggling? Bet ya she's got enough money for 40 Bensons&Hedges and 6 cans of Strongbow a day.
    Instead of giving her money, she should be given food stamps (clothes for the kids included) that just about feeds her and the kids and about $30 allowance a week.

    See how fast that lazy t&%t finds a cleaning job or a restaurant job then. Makes me sick.

    20 hours a week, 8$ an hour. that's a $160 a week x 4 = $640+$120=$760 a month. With her housing benefits and food stamps, that should be more than enough to survive on.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7677659].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Cyberdog1
      Originally Posted by bravo75 View Post

      20,000$ a year and she's struggling? Bet ya she's got enough money for 40 Bensons&Hedges and 6 cans of Strongbow a day.
      Instead of giving her money, she should be given food stamps (clothes for the kids included) that just about feeds her and the kids and about $30 allowance a week.

      See how fast that lazy t&%t finds a cleaning job or a restaurant job then. Makes me sick.

      20 hours a week, 8$ an hour. that's a $160 a week x 4 = $640+$120=$760 a month. With her housing benefits and food stamps, that should be more than enough to survive on.
      THIS!

      ...and to think her own grandparents fought to protect the UK from invasion in WW2 and saw their comrades lay down their lives to give us a better future...

      If they could see her now...
      Signature
      Most think that it was God who created man in his own image but it was us who created God in ours.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679518].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I went back east (US) a few years back and there were generations of welfarers there, too. You don't get welfare like that out in most western states. Maybe CA but not most of them. It's really disgusting. If people want to sit on welfare, they should agree to being sterilized so they don't drop a whole community of kids on the world to take care of for them. They sure aren't role models for them.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7678053].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author PurpleTentacle
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I went back east (US) a few years back and there were generations of welfarers there, too. You don't get welfare like that out in most western states. Maybe CA but not most of them. It's really disgusting. If people want to sit on welfare, they should agree to being sterilized so they don't drop a whole community of kids on the world to take care of for them. They sure aren't role models for them.
      The UK is screwed in the long term, because the people on welfare effectively get rewarded financially for every child they spawn.

      And the more children they spawn, the bigger their house becomes to accommodate them all.

      So what happens when the 'under class' as they're known, outnumber the 'working class'?

      There just doesn't seem to be any end in sight :confused:
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7678171].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Yeah, in Au, when your child reaches a certain age, you lose, l think it is about $60 a week, and you go on Newstart and have to go through the usual things to find work!

        They may change this year, but at the moment!

        No sane person would want to spend their life on that!

        At least in AU, if you are unemployed for a certain period of time, you can get into NEIS, that basically gives you a no strings attached funding for your business idea.

        If l remember correctly about 56% create a successful business and get off the system. And then go on to most likely employ others.

        If the long term unemployed can't find work, then they should be motivated into a business course instead.


        Countries like Greece, with 50% unemployed, could be motivated into going online and create their own job, or business.


        The lady in the video could afford a large plasma tv, instead of an old CRT tv, then she could afford a Laptop!

        And go to the library when she can. Free Wi-Fi, and learn or do something!!!


        JK Rowling went to a coffee shop, when her daughter was asleep, and she was destitute broke, and wrote Harry Potter!

        She also had to borrow, $15,000 from her friend to fund publishing, etc.


        She gave her friend a Mansion, as a thankyou later on, but this women lacks direction or motivation!


        Anyone here come from England, and are making heaps online, maybe you could go over and help out???

        It may help, but l suspect that she might ummm and urrr. If that happens, you could tell her off instead? :rolleyes:


        Shane
        Signature
        Archimedes-The Truth Seekers Forum..
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7678357].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author 100k
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I went back east (US) a few years back and there were generations of welfarers there, too. You don't get welfare like that out in most western states. Maybe CA but not most of them. It's really disgusting. If people want to sit on welfare, they should agree to being sterilized so they don't drop a whole community of kids on the world to take care of for them. They sure aren't role models for them.
      Bit ****ed and harsh, but I agree.

      If a person is on welfare they should not be allowed to have children. Not sure how the government could stop them tho...
      Signature

      Rent this space.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7683729].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
        Yeah, I imagine things get dryer as they go into the land, so that is probably where most of the "out back" is, so living closer to the HUGE beach makes sense. The US, for example, is larger and less than 3/4 surrounded by water. Many HERE don't get to live by the beach. Maybe THAT is why you call it the outBACK! It is behind everyones homes.
        Yep, it gets up to 50 degrees in the centre, or Alice Springs. We occasionally hear about a death there, because someones ute broke down and they make the stupid mistake of trying to walk out of the situation!

        I think that the other reason was, no one went out back, because of the arid conditions, lack of water, until Burke and Wills took a stab at it. One died and the other almost died, but the Aborigines helped him out!


        Well, first of all, it is NOT supposed to be a job to make a living. Historically, in the US, such jobs(as collecting carts/trolleys) were for kids. Sewers and garbage ARE done by adults, but much of the sewer stuff is skilled and they get paid for that. For garbage, most is busy work, and they optimized it and people pay for it, so they really kind of build the business. All the trolley collectors do is keep things neat and maybe prevent the loss of the carts. I think each one here cost less than like $60. So saving one only pays their wages for the day.
        In Au, shopping cars are about $100+, and l have watched them trolley collectors, as you are saying most are teenage or older, although a few are middle aged.

        But the middle aged ones are Aussie, might be a manager?


        But yeah, l doubt that a desperate Indian would want to do that for life?

        Especially when they are developing a Silicon Valley setup in their own country!

        Shane
        Signature
        Archimedes-The Truth Seekers Forum..
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7683795].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I read "In a Sunburned Country" by Bill Bryson - about his travels in Australia. Fascinating place and a good read.
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
          ***
          One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
          what it is instead of what you think it should be.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684043].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Young Financier
    You don't have to leave America to find stories like that. There's plenty of them here.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7678629].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I have personally KNOWN people like this. I saw kids even being TAUGHT to do this. Some on talk shows speak of it.

    It really IS sick. In the US, now, people that are fully UNSKILLED that used to work for minimum wage now WON'T! WHY? "Why work for $8.00 when you can get over $10 for NOT working?". Now SOME may say make the minimum wage the SAME, but people STILL wouldn't work! What would be the premium for their time? AND, if we raised it to that, inflation would raise its head, and have a global impact. You saved enough for retirement? Say goodbye to yet ANOTHER 50%!

    Welfare should NOT be enough to live on! It should be enough to subsist or survive on. There was a time when PRIDE would force people to work. And if the kids aren't provided for, take them away. Tell her that if she doesn't get back on her feet, and has another kid that IT will be taken away, and her welfare will be CUT!

    As for housing benefits? In the US, some apartments, even LUXURY apartments, are forbidden to even BUILD, or do business, unless they provide "section 8 housing" there. So the poor can live in a LUXURY apartment for 80% less than anyone else! Workers may STRUGGLE to live there and pay upwards of $1,200/month(A REAL old price, and twice the then common rate), and those on welfare only pay $240!(Less than half the then current rate)

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679150].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      For a time there was a radical theory that if you received public funds you had to work for them. People didn't like that - because they had to stay home with kids and they were "entitled" to get paid.

      What concerns me is not a few deadbeats - you'll always have those. I worry about the increase in the numbers of people now on food stamps and welfare and other handouts. At least if they had to show up to do work (and there's work that could be done) at a certain time for a certain number of hours a day to receive their "entitlements" they might get the idea of a "job".
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
      what it is instead of what you think it should be.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679364].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Once your country reaches the 50% mark for people receiving welfare, then you've reached the point of practically no return. Because those receiving the handouts will continue to vote for those giving the handouts. - I'm not sure how you recover from that.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679423].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Josh Monroe
    The benefit system in the UK is a complete joke, no wonder they literally have people queuing up to live there from the EU.

    There needs to be some sort of cut-off point established. 5 years is more than generous enough for those 'good' people who have worked all their lives and have fallen on bad times, I have no problem with them since they've paid in (however 5 years is enough to get them back on their feet).

    Those who chose the 'dole' as a life career without even having paid in should have a two year 'grace period'. If they fail to find a job in those two years, they get cut-off completely, all handouts (sorry, I meant 'benefits') should be stopped immediately.

    Also, there should be some strict rules set up to prevent people 'gaming' the system. There should be a limit to how many children they can have whilst receiving benefits (we all know the reason why you had those four kids in the first place). And whilst receiving the benefits they should have to enroll in some sort of community support (cleaning up trash, fixing the roads/pot hills,) ANYTHING that will make their community a better place as a 'thank you' to the people who are going out to work supporting them.

    Failure to participate in said community support and any other 'rules' for that matter should results in some sort of prison sentence (not necessarily prison, but something where they exchange their time for freedom i.e. working in a sweatshop etc). This not only generates money from the items they have created to feed back into the community but also gives them the chance to earn a skill.

    Another thing should be routine drug tests. If they are found to be on any 'hard' drug benefits should be stopped completely until they are clean, failure to comply and its off to the sweat factory (see above).

    Harsh but put the above into action and the country will SOON get back on its feet and you will see an end to the benefits culture.

    Another thing they need to do is to stop immigrants coming into the country from the EU and claiming benefits. Even the thought of them being able to do so is ridiculous.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679708].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
      Originally Posted by Josh Monroe View Post

      Another thing they need to do is to stop immigrants coming into the country from the EU and claiming benefits. Even the thought of them being able to do so is ridiculous.
      I heard this year the UK will lift the work restriction for the Romanians and Bulgarians*. When this happens, expect a lot of people to lose their jobs, because we're poor, we're hungry, and we'll work for whatever peanuts you give us.

      I foresee a stampede of Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants heading your way the moment the restriction is lifted. Good luck. (The Italians and Spanish didn't have much.)

      *And so I cross another country from the list of countries I can visit without having to use a Russian pen-name.
      Signature
      Professional autoresponder email writer.
      I also write premium quality articles, e-books, etc.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7682730].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
        Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

        I heard this year the UK will lift the work restriction for the Romanians and Bulgarians*. When this happens, expect a lot of people to lose their jobs, because we're poor, we're hungry, and we'll work for whatever peanuts you give us.

        I foresee a stampede of Romanian and Bulgarian immigrants heading your way the moment the restriction is lifted.
        Don't jump in your car just yet. Our Government has a cunning plan to stop you all from wanting to come here.(Baldrick has taken office!)

        They will be running Ads in Romania and Bulgaria (do poor people even have TVs?) which will advertise that Great Britain is actually not that Great and that it is cold.

        That should do the trick!

        Romanians and Bulgarians to be told: UK's too cold for you in advertising campaign to try and deter them from coming to Britain | Mail Online

        Dan
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7683408].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
          Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

          Don't jump in your car just yet. Our Government has a cunning plan to stop you all from wanting to come here.(Baldrick has taken office!)

          They will be running Ads in Romania and Bulgaria (do poor people even have TVs?) which will advertise that Great Britain is actually not that Great and that it is cold.

          That should do the trick!

          Romanians and Bulgarians to be told: UK's too cold for you in advertising campaign to try and deter them from coming to Britain | Mail Online

          Dan
          Your Government will have an unpleasant surprise when they'll find out their campaign flopped. They don't understand their "audience". They think a few banners sporting claims such as "it rains a lot", or "it's cold most of the time" will scare people off. That won't happen. Desperation pushes people to do all kinds of uncomfortable things, and believe me, rainy and chilly days are the least of the concerns a typical Romanian or Bulgarian immigrant has right now.

          To be honest, and I'm being selfish now, I do wish their campaign to be effective, because every time I visit Italy or Spain, countries which were flooded with Romanians after work restrictions were lifted, I have to tell people I'm from Hungary or Russia (or whatever), to avoid all kinds of unpleasant situations.

          BTW, if you're worried about immigration, then read this: Worried about immigration? Then go and live in Romania - Home News - UK - The Independent
          Signature
          Professional autoresponder email writer.
          I also write premium quality articles, e-books, etc.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7683663].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

          That story in the Daily Mail was flatly denied last night, on the record, by Baroness Warsi (Foreign Office minister) on the BBC's Question Time and has again been denied by the Foreign Office today.

          If anyone's interested.

          I know it shouldn't really need saying that hysterical, xenophobic nonsense in the Daily Mail turns out rarely to contain any truth at all - I'm mentioning it only for those here from other countries who might not quite have realized that the "journalism" standard there is typically on a par with that of the National Inquirer in America.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684389].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            That story in the Daily Mail was flatly denied last night, on the record, by Baroness Warsi (Foreign Office minister) on the BBC's Question Time and has again been denied by the Foreign Office today.
            That is actually a shame.

            I think an Advertising campaign for the UK in that manner would be quite British if you think about it.

            Was it Swindon that had the sign 'Not As Bad As You Think' put up by some prankster?

            Dan
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7685435].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

              I think an Advertising campaign for the UK in that manner would be quite British if you think about it.
              LOL, very much so in a way - good point!

              Originally Posted by jimbo13 View Post

              Was it Swindon that had the sign 'Not As Bad As You Think' put up by some prankster?
              Hadn't heard this one!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7685470].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Josh Monroe
                Originally Posted by Bewley View Post

                You cared enough to mention it. At least try to get the facts right.
                Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                Apparently you cared enough to drag it in, here.
                I don't see how contributing MY THOUGHTS to a discussion means I care?

                Everyone is entitled to their own opinion irregardless of whether it's the correct one.

                Thus, my opinion is the only one that matters (to me).

                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7685488].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author 100k
      Originally Posted by Josh Monroe View Post

      The benefit system in the UK is a complete joke, no wonder they literally have people queuing up to live there from the EU.

      There needs to be some sort of cut-off point established. 5 years is more than generous enough for those 'good' people who have worked all their lives and have fallen on bad times, I have no problem with them since they've paid in (however 5 years is enough to get them back on their feet).

      Those who chose the 'dole' as a life career without even having paid in should have a two year 'grace period'. If they fail to find a job in those two years, they get cut-off completely, all handouts (sorry, I meant 'benefits') should be stopped immediately.

      Also, there should be some strict rules set up to prevent people 'gaming' the system. There should be a limit to how many children they can have whilst receiving benefits (we all know the reason why you had those four kids in the first place). And whilst receiving the benefits they should have to enroll in some sort of community support (cleaning up trash, fixing the roads/pot hills,) ANYTHING that will make their community a better place as a 'thank you' to the people who are going out to work supporting them.

      Failure to participate in said community support and any other 'rules' for that matter should results in some sort of prison sentence (not necessarily prison, but something where they exchange their time for freedom i.e. working in a sweatshop etc). This not only generates money from the items they have created to feed back into the community but also gives them the chance to earn a skill.

      Another thing should be routine drug tests. If they are found to be on any 'hard' drug benefits should be stopped completely until they are clean, failure to comply and its off to the sweat factory (see above).

      Harsh but put the above into action and the country will SOON get back on its feet and you will see an end to the benefits culture.

      Another thing they need to do is to stop immigrants coming into the country from the EU and claiming benefits. Even the thought of them being able to do so is ridiculous.


      WoW!

      You must be half chinese / north korean or something

      You are a harsh but fair man!

      I also liked what someone said in a post, about AU giving people loans to set up a business after xxx months or what ever. I think the UK should invest more in smaller businesses and people becoming self employed in stead of having to "work" - sometimes when there are no jobs, its easier and better to just start your own firm.
      Signature

      Rent this space.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7683768].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bewley
      Originally Posted by Josh Monroe View Post


      Another thing they need to do is to stop immigrants coming into the country from the EU and claiming benefits. Even the thought of them being able to do so is ridiculous.
      It's a myth that immigrants can just walk into the UK and start claiming benefits. Exercise a bit of common sense pal. Have you heard of The Freedom of Movement For Workers - go Google it.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684538].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Bewley View Post

        It's a myth that immigrants can just walk into the UK and start claiming benefits.
        It is a myth - with only very small numbers of exceptions.

        Unfortunately, though, it's one of those myths that's constantly regurgitated and reinforced by hysterical, xenophobic media. As long as so many more people read the Daily Mail than read The Times or The Independent, that's broadly speaking going to be the case.

        The media keep telling people that we expected only a few tens of thousands of Polish immigrants and got nearly half a million. And by telling them that, they subtly or even overtly invite them to believe that the same will be true of Romanians and Bulgarians (it won't, of course, because the circumstances are entirely different and unlike the Poles, at the time, they have a very wide choice of countries to go to, if wanting to emigrate).

        What they don't tell anyone is that the taxes that many of those Polish immigrants now collectively pay far outweigh the cost of the benefits that a few of them now draw, and that they're of considerable commercial and financial (as well as more obviously cultural and educational) benefit to our society.

        There's information and misinformation, but even among the "information" there's also very selective reporting of the facts.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684692].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
          It's nice to hear the other side of the story. I suppose believing everything the Daily Mail says would be comparable to being informed about what's going on in the world by watching Foxnews in the US.

          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          It is a myth - with only very small numbers of exceptions.

          Unfortunately, though, it's one of those myths that's constantly regurgitated and reinforced by hysterical, xenophobic media. As long as so many more people read the Daily Mail than read The Times or The Independent, that's broadly speaking going to be the case.

          The media keep telling people that we expected only a few tens of thousands of Polish immigrants and got nearly half a million. And by telling them that, they subtly or even overtly invite them to believe that the same will be true of Romanians and Bulgarians (it won't, of course, because the circumstances are entirely different and unlike the Poles, at the time, they have a very wide choice of countries to go to, if wanting to emigrate).

          What they don't tell anyone is that the taxes that many of those Polish immigrants now collectively pay far outweigh the cost of the benefits that a few of them now draw.

          There's information and misinformation, but even among the "information" there's also very selective reporting of the facts.
          Signature
          Over 50 Dating
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684782].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Josh Monroe
        Originally Posted by Bewley View Post

        It's a myth that immigrants can just walk into the UK and start claiming benefits. Exercise a bit of common sense pal. Have you heard of The Freedom of Movement For Workers - go Google it.
        Look, I live in the US so I really dont care. My comments were from what I've seen personally (since I spend a LOT of time in the UK since thats where half my family live) and what I've seen/read in newspapers/TV/radio/debates and so on.

        If the people coming to the Uk are from the EU they have free movement and can enter the country and work. They can also start to claim benefits.

        Once you let one in the flood gates are open and you've got his family from the past three generations coming over too.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684933].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Bewley
          Originally Posted by Josh Monroe View Post

          Look, I live in the US so I really dont care. .
          You cared enough to mention it. At least try to get the facts right.

          Alexa's post explained it perfectly, I suggest you read it.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7685008].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Josh Monroe View Post

          Once you let one in the flood gates are open and you've got his family from the past three generations coming over too.
          That statement is every bit as ill-informed, inaccurate and fictional as most of the rest of what you've said in this thread.

          Still, at least it doesn't conceal your prejudices, I'll give you that - albeit that you clearly have absolutely no idea at all about the current UK immigration regulations.

          Originally Posted by Josh Monroe View Post

          Look, I live in the US so I really dont care.
          Apparently you cared enough to drag it in, here.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7685173].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
          Originally Posted by Josh Monroe View Post

          If the people coming to the Uk are from the EU they have free movement and can enter the country and work. They can also start to claim benefits..
          It's not that simple. The freedom of travel is not the same with the freedom of work. Since you are in the US, I can tell you that it won't be hard for me (or anyone) to get a travel visa (some paper work, a bank account statement, and some kind of assurances that I will return), but to get a visa and work permit it would be very difficult. One would need some kind of invitation from an employee and other stuff, which are hard to obtain.

          Claiming benefits, however, is even harder, if not impossible. I can't imagine why the UK government would find it their problem to help immigrants - it's not like immigrants are their burden. However, the problem that I see is that more UK citizens might need to claim benefits when the work restrictions will be lifted, since the aforementioned countries have a significant number of people who will gladly do the same work for a considerable smaller salary. I've heard that something similar happened in Italy and Spain, but I just heard, so take it with a grain of salt.
          Signature
          Professional autoresponder email writer.
          I also write premium quality articles, e-books, etc.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7687114].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Welfare IS a mess here. We have multi-generation welfare families. We also have a situation that penalizes those who get a job but still need some help - they end up worse off working so don't. We have an economic collapse so many who WERE working, and would like to be doing so now are having a hella time finding work. Employers are getting between hundreds and thousands of resumes for EACH job available in this country - that's a sign that most people want to work, I would think. So how to we get our gov to back the hell off and create an atmosphere where we can thrive instead of regulating us to pulp? When everyone and their brother NEEDS help, how can we expect people to KEEP any pride? We're being dehumanized to the point that unless someone is constructed of grit and nails they can't muster that pride anymore. It's disgusting how our system is rigged to make people feel like swine in a slaughterhouse pen.

    Then instead of putting the blame on our leaders for bludgeoning all human pride out of our citizens - we compound the injury by blaming the poor for it and sapping every last ounce of dignity they have left. 87% of our welfare goes to corporations. Great. It's not the poor. Force the gov to accountability and make them put things back in one piece and we'd see moral and human dignity thrive again.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679880].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author bravo75
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Welfare IS a mess here. We have multi-generation welfare families. We also have a situation that penalizes those who get a job but still need some help - they end up worse off working so don't. We have an economic collapse so many who WERE working, and would like to be doing so now are having a hella time finding work. Employers are getting between hundreds and thousands of resumes for EACH job available in this country - that's a sign that most people want to work, I would think. So how to we get our gov to back the hell off and create an atmosphere where we can thrive instead of regulating us to pulp? When everyone and their brother NEEDS help, how can we expect people to KEEP any pride? We're being dehumanized to the point that unless someone is constructed of grit and nails they can't muster that pride anymore. It's disgusting how our system is rigged to make people feel like swine in a slaughterhouse pen.

      Then instead of putting the blame on our leaders for bludgeoning all human pride out of our citizens - we compound the injury by blaming the poor for it and sapping every last ounce of dignity they have left. 87% of our welfare goes to corporations. Great. It's not the poor. Force the gov to accountability and make them put things back in one piece and we'd see moral and human dignity thrive again.
      Nah. The sh.theads were around when the economy was good in the States.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7679933].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Then instead of putting the blame on our leaders for bludgeoning all human pride out of our citizens - we compound the injury by blaming the poor for it and sapping every last ounce of dignity they have left. 87% of our welfare goes to corporations. Great. It's not the poor. Force the gov to accountability and make them put things back in one piece and we'd see moral and human dignity thrive again.
        I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying corporations get food stamps or that welfare "redefined" includes benefits to corps?

        I will agree our tax system has become a welfare "redistribution" program, though, on several levels.

        Today, welfare is a lifestyle for too many people. There's no dignity in that and pride comes to those who get out of the welfare system and become self-reliant.
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
        ***
        One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
        what it is instead of what you think it should be.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7680035].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Sal,

    Nobody is blaming the poor. Poor historically have been those that don't make that much for the work they can do, relative to their need, or the disadvantaged.

    People that feel that society should sacrifice itself and give them comfort above all others, for nothing, are not really the POOR. They are getting a FORTUNE for what they are doing. Bill gates never made that much! Buffet doesn't! I mean making $20K for doing NOTHING, and taking NO risks, when you are able bodied, etc? WOW! Anyway, such people don't DESERVE pride. WHAT can they be proud of? Gaming the system?

    Lately, I have been saying there are 4-5 classes OK, I guess you could say 7 classes...

    1. The do nothing gamers <<what we are talking about HERE
    2. The lowerclass (poor)
    3. "Middle class" gamers
    4. Middle class
    5. "Upper class" gamers
    6. Upper class
    7. Political class

    Frankly, **I** hate ALL the gamers, and the political class.(This refers to those that are not bound by the law, given special rights, get paid a fortune and yet make many fortunes besides. They may not be recognized as billionares, but may access trillions. BTW MOST are multimillionares on the backs of others ) THEY are the problem. And if THEY all stopped, there would probably be fewer poor ALSO. Yet people blame the upper class.

    BTW not to non americans. Gamer, in this context, refers to one that uses laws, loopholes, etc... to gain an illegitimate and/or unexpected or secret advantage. In THIS case I mean to make money. game the system - Wiktionary

    Wictionary says: "To use the rules and procedures meant to protect a system in order to instead manipulate the system for a desired outcome."

    So a person wants to be paid for doing nothing, so they do nothing and act poor. They then claim they can't get rent, they can't get food, etc...

    I heard one person, who is VERY rich, supported a politician and had him shut down cheep transport of an item. INDUSTRIES would shut down! People would SUFFER! The US could SUFFER! ******UNLESS****** they got that tem to the places. That person just HAPPENS to have an interest in the only train that can do that! He is making a LOT because of ONE decision! GAMING! MANY call THAT corporate welfare!

    I could give ANOTHER example for the middle class, but that hits more to home, etc....

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7680321].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author barrymoore
    I agree people like this take the piss.

    However, some of the real problems are at the top. We need to clamp down on both ends! Tax evasion and avoidance are huge, huge issues. We need a simple tax system.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7682621].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
      By shopping trolley, I assume you mean the carts for a supermarket and the like. Contrary to the MYTH, white americans ARE willing and DO do such things. And I have seen white americans working in sewers, and as garbagemen. I bet australians would be willing to do that also!

      Anyway, cut back on welfare, and watch the demographics CHANGE! You know, denmark did a study and when they cut the length of support in half, people found jobs that much quicker!

      Steve
      Yep, carts!

      I am sure that some Australians and W Americans would do anything, especially if they have a family to support.

      But most wouldn't, the typical Aussie, living near a beach and spending a day surfing or sun baking, is a cliche in AU!

      Shane


      In Au, shopping cart collectors, and Optus, Telstra, Origin Energy, (electricity) door to door salemen, are predominately Indian!

      Job search online is full of such jobs, but no Aussie wants to go near it!
      Signature
      Archimedes-The Truth Seekers Forum..
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7682698].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

        Yep, carts!

        I am sure that some Australians and W Americans would do anything, especially if they have a family to support.

        But most wouldn't, the typical Aussie, living near a beach and spending a day surfing or sun baking, is a cliche in AU!

        Shane
        Yeah, I imagine things get dryer as they go into the land, so that is probably where most of the "out back" is, so living closer to the HUGE beach makes sense. The US, for example, is larger and less than 3/4 surrounded by water. Many HERE don't get to live by the beach. Maybe THAT is why you call it the outBACK! It is behind everyones homes.

        In Au, shopping cart collectors, and Optus, Telstra, Origin Energy, (electricity) door to door salemen, are predominately Indian!
        Well, first of all, it is NOT supposed to be a job to make a living. Historically, in the US, such jobs(as collecting carts/trolleys) were for kids. Sewers and garbage ARE done by adults, but much of the sewer stuff is skilled and they get paid for that. For garbage, most is busy work, and they optimized it and people pay for it, so they really kind of build the business. All the trolley collectors do is keep things neat and maybe prevent the loss of the carts. I think each one here cost less than like $60. So saving one only pays their wages for the day.

        HERE, Indians are even in computers. Some have been tricked into believing they are the best and that that is the only place they are. BOTH are myths!

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7683508].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author alistair
    What annoys me is that people on this thread give their opinion and basically have the same view, but if this was on television as a debate or something here in the UK then I'm pretty sure you would be made to look like a piece of scum for stating the obvious by all the liberal types defending this womans "human rights".
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684370].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
      Well, I'm a progressive, but I don't like seeing people on welfare their whole lives. Here in the US, another liberal, Clinton, reformed the welfare laws to try to keep these things from happening.

      Originally Posted by alistair View Post

      What annoys me is that people on this thread give their opinion and basically have the same view, but if this was on television as a debate or something here in the UK then I'm pretty sure you would be made to look like a piece of scum for stating the obvious by all the liberal types defending this womans "human rights".
      Signature
      Over 50 Dating
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684419].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Bewley
        I know nothing of the US welfare system, so I won't comment.

        But to my fellow compatriots - your lack of intelligence is beyond belief.

        Just because you watched a heavily biased video about a woman who *maybe* gaming the benefits system - you go ahead and tar ALL benefit recipients with the same brush.

        You are marginalising a social group, who have been recently joined by nurses, redundant military personal, 100s of 1000s of ex public sector workers, teachers & the list goes on.

        How pathetically dumb & ignorant!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684469].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author alistair
          Originally Posted by Bewley View Post

          I know nothing of the US welfare system, so I won't comment.

          But to my fellow compatriots - your lack of intelligence is beyond belief.

          Just because you watched a heavily biased video about a woman who *maybe* gaming the benefits system - you go ahead and tar ALL benefit recipients with the same brush.

          You are marginalising a social group, who have been recently joined by nurses, redundant military personal, 100s of 1000s of ex public sector workers, teachers & the list goes on.

          How pathetically dumb & ignorant!
          For one thing the video wasn't heavily biased in any way.

          For another who is tarring all benefit recipients with the same brush?

          Seems to me you're the person tarring people with the same brush.

          And yes, if she can work then make her go out and get a job, even if it's voluntary so she gives something back rather than just takes. Either that or cut her benefits off.

          I work for the money I earn and I pay my own way and one thing I've learnt from working in lots of flats and houses in Kent and London is that I'm sick of paying the way for people that don't give a toss about anything other than their own worthless existence.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7687489].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Bewley
            Originally Posted by alistair View Post

            For one thing the video wasn't heavily biased in any way.
            You honestly think, that could be construed, in anyway, to be considered & balanced reporting?

            Originally Posted by alistair View Post

            For another who is tarring all benefit recipients with the same brush?
            The ignorant people in this thread (UK nationals) who are lumping ALL benefit claimants into the typical stereotype of scroungers', leechers & lazy good for nothing scum.

            Originally Posted by alistair View Post

            Seems to me you're the person tarring people with the same brush.
            Yes I am. Only the people in this thread that show an amazing amount of ignorance & opinion that is not based on fact.

            Originally Posted by alistair View Post

            And yes, if she can work then make her go out and get a job, even if it's voluntary so she gives something back rather than just takes. Either that or cut her benefits off.
            Would you see people starve & die? You would probably gloat & enjoy it immensely.

            Originally Posted by alistair View Post

            I work for the money I earn and I pay my own way and one thing I've learnt from working in lots of flats and houses in Kent and London is that I'm sick of paying the way for people that don't give a toss about anything other than their own worthless existence.
            "Worthless existence". That's all I need to know about you.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7687972].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by alistair View Post

      What annoys me is that people on this thread give their opinion and basically have the same view, but if this was on television as a debate or something here in the UK then I'm pretty sure you would be made to look like a piece of scum for stating the obvious by all the liberal types defending this womans "human rights".
      I don't defend any of this woman's human rights except for the right to be human, seeing as she was born one.

      But it stops there.

      Yes, I understand that horrible incidents occur that leave people in dire straights that need some assistance until they can get back on their feet and I agree with that wholeheartedly!

      It's the assistance that helps people to stay on their a$$ that really ticks me off!

      There is no doubt that the assistance programs in many countries are in need of a major overhaul!! The US included.

      Terra
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684463].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Well, I have heard a lot of similar things HERE! I am ENTRENCHED in an industry, and exposed to many, that are here solely to have jobs. So where do you think they get most of the money to pay those taxes? How much in taxes do you think is taken to support unemployed people? If you can not see the cycle, there is no hope.

    I ALSO have known people here on welfare. One was a mother that, feigning that she needed an education, got money from the federal government. She used that money to move from florida to california. She was on WIC, and section 8 and who knows what else. She and her daughter were bused around to help campaign for clinton. They loved him. They even assisted in cordoning off a public mall so the clintons could shop as if they were on rodeo drive, beverly hills. Rodeo Drive - Luxury Shopping in Beverly Hills | Beverly Hills CVB That mall was in sherman oaks though. For those that don't know, rodeo drive is FAMOUS for having special private browsing by appointment only. I COULD tell you WHAT her daughter said to me after she apparently broke the cycle, but this seems, well, you know....

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[7684977].message }}

Trending Topics