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Telecom Corporations Are Trying To Stop The Government From Offering Free 'Super WiFi'

by MoneyMagnetMagnate
34 replies
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Telecom Corporations Are Trying To Stop The Government From Offering Free 'Super WiFi'

The $178 billion telecom industry is scrambling to kill a government plan to provide free "super WiFi" across the country, The Washington Post's Cecilia Kang reports.
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    For a minute, I thought - wait. That would give the gov access to my computer. Then I thought of facebook.

    I'm up for a freebie.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    The US is BROKE!

    BO said we DON'T have a spending problem BUT that we need more taxes, STILL!
    There is a federal law that FORBIDS any non licensed party(And the federal government is FORBIDDEN to participate) from having any cell phone tower in a given area. They are REQUIRED to run a lottery and the winner gets EXCLUSIVE rights!

    WIFI is FORBIDDEN by law to go over a certain distance. That is due to, among other thigs, the FCC and standards set LONG ago that depend on spectrum, use, importance, interference, etc....

    The only SOMEWHAT legal way would be to allocate NEW frequencies, lay down many MILLIONS of miles worth of cable, or have a ton of repeaters, and build these things with money they DON'T HAVE!

    They CAN'T use existing towers, because that would simply cut into existing resources, violate contracts all over, hurt the phone companies, etc..... The industry would NOT even exist if not for those contracts.

    They CAN'T use existing lines for the SAME reason!

    They can't use existing frequencies for the SAME reason. In fact, the FCC FORBIDS two companies from using the same frequencies for the SAME reason. RADIO, TV, and important channels are kept clear for the owner. CB channels, and LAN wifi, are limited by distance and have protocols to hopefully ride out interference. HECK, even with remote controlled devices, like planes and cars, they offer different frequencies.

    WHY? So the VERY poor can get free internet to play games all day long?

    And you KNOW that eventually the free services will catch on and be used to drive the phone companies and all out of business.

    I hate the phone companies and cable companies ALSO! I ALSO think I pay too much for the internet. I thought $20 was too much, and now I spend a LOT more than that.
    But they make money and stay in business, I have a choice, and I can freely(not FOR free, but without much restraint) communicate from almost ANYWHERE!

    Right now, I am in my living room, typing on my laptop and the signal makes its way to my router in my bedroom, and through the cable to the internet. I can be at either side of my basement, either side of my second floor, and any part on my property and communicate. HECK, I could do so while getting the mail.

    If I feel like traveling, I could plug my cell pphone in and, using EVDO, drive to most states in the US and communicate ALL THE WAY!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    If it spanks AT&T DSL I'm in.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      If it spanks AT&T DSL I'm in.
      MANY things DO, but AT&T is DEAD! The company that DID exist was split up all over, partially consolidated into like a half dozen groups, and then SOLD! So there is almost NOTHING about AT&T that exists as such. In fact, I believe they for a time called it by one of its former names! EVEN the UNIX and computer division was sold to novell! The SWITCH division was sold to lucent.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        MANY things DO, but AT&T is DEAD! The company that DID exist was split up all over, partially consolidated into like a half dozen groups, and then SOLD! So there is almost NOTHING about AT&T that exists as such. In fact, I believe they for a time called it by one of its former names! EVEN the UNIX and computer division was sold to novell! The SWITCH division was sold to lucent.

        Steve

        My internet bill would beg to differ. AT&T is in Upstate SC, bought out Bellsouth.
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        • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
          Super WiFi will happen, and it's about time the government started to put something like this into action. The Internet is too valuable to not have, ultimately, global WiFi coverage where you are always connected.
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          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

            Super WiFi will happen, and it's about time the government started to put something like this into action. The Internet is too valuable to not have, ultimately, global WiFi coverage where you are always connected.
            And WHY do you think that a broke government(that earlier advocated the ability to CUT OFF ALL ACCESS) would want ONE company(Ever hear of the sherman antitrust act?) to provide it for FREE!?

            Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          My internet bill would beg to differ. AT&T is in Upstate SC, bought out Bellsouth.
          I never said the NAME disappeared, although it almost did once. I said it is not what it once was.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
            WIFI is FORBIDDEN by law to go over a certain distance. That is due to, among other thigs, the FCC and standards set LONG ago that depend on spectrum, use, importance, interference, etc....

            The only SOMEWHAT legal way would be to allocate NEW frequencies, lay down many MILLIONS of miles worth of cable, or have a ton of repeaters, and build these things with money they DON'T HAVE!

            They CAN'T use existing towers, because that would simply cut into existing resources, violate contracts all over, hurt the phone companies, etc..... The industry would NOT even exist if not for those contracts.
            Sounds like what AU is trying to do, last estimate was about 45 billion, probably scaled back to 38 billion but still a lot!

            We call it super broadband, great for teleconferencing, seeing a doctor while still in your house, etc. But apart from the Wow factor, l wouldn't bother.

            Right now, I am in my living room, typing on my laptop and the signal makes its way to my router in my bedroom, and through the cable to the internet. I can be at either side of my basement, either side of my second floor, and any part on my property and communicate. HECK, I could do so while getting the mail.
            Hmmmm, sounds almost like me, a Wi-Fi setup in my bedroom with an old, PC, hooked up to the internet via a cable. And my Laptop as well, but l can go to virtually any room.

            Tech, is pretty cool, and l could hook up my Mobile as well, but it probably isn't possible at present.

            I also have an old printer, and found out recently that you can buy a B/W printer that remotely can be hooked up, so l could print on my Laptop in one room and it goes to the printer and prints, (or something like that).


            Don't run a colour printer without the windows being open, from what a printer told me recently, (my B/W ran out of toner) that colour printer ink might be toxic.

            No proof, but it is best to take precautions while turning out a colour photo.

            Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Didn't know this was going to go into serious discussion and I WAS just kidding.

    I'm against the gov having their hand in ANY business. It's not their authority and it's just one more way they are using freebies to get people on the side of a very dangerous regime. Screw em. I'll pay for my Internet.
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    Sal
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    • Profile picture of the author 100k
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Didn't know this was going to go into serious discussion and I WAS just kidding.

      I'm against the gov having their hand in ANY business. It's not their authority and it's just one more way they are using freebies to get people on the side of a very dangerous regime. Screw em. I'll pay for my Internet.
      Spot on!

      Nothing is ever for free... sounds like another attempt for them to gain more data about what people are doing, surfing, reading/watching, dating, travelling, planning, buying.... Having so much info can be very dangerous.

      Sheeeet... just look at that poor army fella... they ended his career because he sent a few naked pics to his main bitch.
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      Rent this space.

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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Heysal,

    I was WONDERING about that! Free internet sounds great until you realize that it WILL cost AND, as one caller on a show discussing this said...., free cheese often is connected to a trap!

    Of course, the system WILL be bogged down by many, will likely be censored, and would put the phone companies and cable companies out of business.

    If I were an enemy of the US, I would be really HOPING the US went wth such a plan. I can already imagine what could be done in the next 20 years. The entire terminator franchise was built on the idea of ONE computer getting full control of one base, and started with a virus it made. The end of WWII started with one small group and one small plane, which dropped two relatively small bombs. IMAGINE, some of the TANKS used were bigger. Well, I could see how THIS could spell the end of the US. Imagine all the infrastructure companies going bankrupt, the US having no real cashflow, and a TON more people out of work, and an information infrastructure that could be put out of commission.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    There's no way I want Govt controlling my internet access. It's bad enough getting someone that's paid to come and fix a bad connection... can you imagine trying to get a government worker to fix your connection? Forget about it. I'd pay double to keep the govt away.

    - I know it's wifi - but I'm sure it will have connection problems now and then.
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
    Wow,3M...

    Someone at NPR must follow your posts.

    I heard this as well as the LIBOR issue today.

    Well done,Sir!

    That being said, I agree with Sal and Steve that this is a dangerous road.
    And didn't the feds quash Googles plan to do the same?
    Google started to set up the infraztructure, if I remember correctly, but axed it once the feds put the cabash on their plans.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Sal was kidding but

      I'm up for a freebie.
      that will be the mindset of people regarding this issue. They won't see - or care about - one company with oversight by the govt.

      I think a better approach would be for govt to require telecoms to provide a basic low cost WI-Fi. This is what was done with CableTV where cable companies were required to offer a low-end 9.99 package that included basic networks. The cost today is more like 19.99 but still much cheaper than fancier cable options.

      The town my older son lives in has free Wi-Fi - but nothing is really free and the local university pays for it.
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      • Profile picture of the author garyv
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Sal was kidding but



        that will be the mindset of people regarding this issue. They won't see - or care about - one company with oversight by the govt.

        I think a better approach would be for govt to require telecoms to provide a basic low cost WI-Fi. This is what was done with CableTV where cable companies were required to offer a low-end 9.99 package that included basic networks. The cost today is more like 19.99 but still much cheaper than fancier cable options.

        The town my older son lives in has free Wi-Fi - but nothing is really free and the local university pays for it.

        And I'm willing to bet the University is collecting their money's worth in data from the community. - Which is precisely why the govt should keep their hands off.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by garyv View Post

          And I'm willing to bet the University is collecting their money's worth in data from the community. - Which is precisely why the govt should keep their hands off.
          They already get their fair share of free data - all those papers that students have to write would cost a fortune if they had to hire researchers for them -- especially at the PHD level.

          that will be the mindset of people regarding this issue. They won't see - or care about - one company with oversight by the govt.
          You got that right. Look at all the people that voted a certain way specifically because they were getting a free phone for the vote.

          People think I'm fascist when I say this - but I think that taking and passing certain government and civics classes should be a requirement of voter's registration -- get the idiots out of our voting booths that have no business making decisions that effect the rest of us. We can see how much THAT has done for us.

          I was WONDERING about that!
          LMAO.
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          Sal
          When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
          Beyond the Path

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          • Profile picture of the author Brian John
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            ...I think that taking and passing certain government and civics classes should be a requirement of voter's registration -- get the idiots out of our voting booths that have no business making decisions that effect the rest of us.
            brilliant idea, i'm all for it. had this been in effect wonder how the last few elections would have turned out? :rolleyes:
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            • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
              Why don't we, or Sally start a new thread about this. It is interesting in itself and I have a couple of ideas.

              Joe Mobley


              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              They already get their fair share of free data - all those papers that students have to write would cost a fortune if they had to hire researchers for them -- especially at the PHD level.

              You got that right. Look at all the people that voted a certain way specifically because they were getting a free phone for the vote.

              People think I'm fascist when I say this - but I think that taking and passing certain government and civics classes should be a requirement of voter's registration -- get the idiots out of our voting booths that have no business making decisions that effect the rest of us. We can see how much THAT has done for us.

              Heysal,



              LMAO.
              Originally Posted by Brian John View Post

              brilliant idea, i'm all for it. had this been in effect wonder how the last few elections would have turned out? :rolleyes:
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              • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                If Super WiFi comes about in any form close to what we are use to with WiFi, it will be the end of carriers like Verizon, AT&T, etc. AND!!! the cable companies.

                Joe Mobley
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      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Sal was kidding but



        that will be the mindset of people regarding this issue. They won't see - or care about - one company with oversight by the govt.

        I think a better approach would be for govt to require telecoms to provide a basic low cost WI-Fi. This is what was done with CableTV where cable companies were required to offer a low-end 9.99 package that included basic networks. The cost today is more like 19.99 but still much cheaper than fancier cable options.

        The town my older son lives in has free Wi-Fi - but nothing is really free and the local university pays for it.
        Last I knew, VERIZON had a REAL low priced option. It WAS limited to like a couple Gig, but SOMETHING has to give.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    Big Rob,

    It proably hit the AP a few days ago. Before I saw this, I heard several news reports that I earlier only saw in alternative printed media. BTW ANOTHER interesting one is theft of various investment plans, such as 401Ks, IRAs, etc....

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Cable companies make 97% margin on internet services and have no incentive to offer gigabit internet

    The cable distribution giants like Time Warner Cable and Comcast are already making a 97 percent margin on their “almost comically profitable” Internet services, according to Craig Moffet, an analyst at the Wall Street firm Bernstein Research. As Levin points out, “If you are making that kind of margin, it’s hard to improve it.” And most Americans have no choice but to deal with their local cable company.
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    • Profile picture of the author garyv
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      Oh they will when there's enough demand for it. Otherwise other companies will take their customers.

      I remember when Motorola was perfectly fine with their big clunky cell phones because of the profit margin they were making. That was until Nokia met the demand for smaller cell phones - and literally over night took over the cell phone market. - And then both Nokia and Motorola were fine sitting on their profits, until Apple came along and met the demand for a smart phone. Now they pretty much own the cell phone market.

      There will always be a company willing to meet the demand.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        And I'm willing to bet the University is collecting their money's worth in data from the community. - Which is precisely why the govt should keep their hands off.
        I honestly don't know. My daughter-in-law is asst comptroller of the University and she doesn't know, either. An old friend just retired as head of the University's computer operations and he said "that isn't data we need for anything". But this is a university - not a govt. We had a "privacy/data" discussion last time I was there.

        This is a town that triples in size when the university is in session - and honestly I doubt the residents worry much about their data. They are happy with free internet access.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      How do you really know? Cable has an ********INCREDIBLY******** high startup cost! You have to rip up streets, get a lot of permits and easements, and lay that cable! Providing the internet over that IS pretty cheap, just like everything else. The cost of the infrastructure, and maintaining the signal is ALWAYS the hardest and most expensive part.

      GIGABIT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Gigabit is still a relatively new standard and came out LONG after the cable. it is 100MB/s! Most parts of the internet are STILL bottlenecked at LESS than 1MB/s, and Wifi is generally limited to LESS than 60MB/s!

      Take a survey here as to how many have a dedicated server, and WHY? I leased dedicated servers. Was it to have a server? ********NO WAY********! Was it for the software? ********NO WAY********! The fact is that I could, and HAVE, set up servers that are BETTER for a virtual SONG! I have hardware coming out my EARS! So WHY do I do it? The INFRASTRUCTURE! You see, wifi, CABLE, DIAL UP, and many other methods don't provide economical bandwidth over a dedicated and routable IP. When they do, the hosting business could CRUMBLE!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Doran Peck
    I think what the common layfolk don't see, is that every time the government creates laws, in the name of safety, or puts its hands into something, or gives away something for free...while we are sold on the apparent or immediate, or percieved benefit to us...there are ALWAYS ancilliary benefits for the government.

    Alot of things have to do with collecting information...most recently...gun registration is on the table for example...well...the problem with collecting any kind of information is that someone comes along a year later...a decade later, or a generation later...and decides something should be done with that information.

    Government free wifi? ...many things come to mind. controlled viewing, manipulated information, watching your every click, monopolized advertizing, political and health view indoctrination.

    Why else would the government want to get into the internet game?...the internet is the major league of data collection and presentation.

    ...oh...what...its because the government is a truly benevolent enterprise and wants to improve my life experience?
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  • Profile picture of the author winagain
    Global wi-fi is something that is happening all around the world. Each day it's easier and cheaper. It's just a matter of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by winagain View Post

      Global wi-fi is something that is happening all around the world. Each day it's easier and cheaper. It's just a matter of time.
      I'm ALL FOR global WIFI! We have it here TODAY! There are 4 DISTINCT ways to do it! They range in price from maybe FREE to say $100/month.

      So WHAT am I against? The GOVERNMENT giving full global WIFI, or even internet access, to ALL(for free or NOT)! WHY? I DON'T want them to have control, be able to freely monitor, or have a monopoly.

      In short, it is better for 70% to have it than for 100% to have a promise and not really have it at all. You want it for free at a cost of ******NOTHING*******? Go to the LIBRARY! You want to have it free at ****NO EXTRA COST**** and have a room? MANY hotels will do that!

      You have a computer, and want it for ****FREE****? Go almost anywhere!

      You want to TRAVEL and get it for ****FREE****? Why should the ENTIRE US possibly lose what they have so you can have THIS? Just pay the small amount and get EVDO! In some areas there is a special WIFI that is like half way between WIFI and EVDO that costs less, but there isn't as much coverage.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Why don't we, or Sally start a new thread about this. It is interesting in itself and I have a couple of ideas.

    Joe Mobley

    I prefer to be called Sal, thanks. Sally, in English means to charge or attack. Sally, in French, means dirty. Don't know WTF mom and dad were thinking.

    Go ahead and start a thread if you want to - um.........that's what the forum is for, eh?
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    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author MoneyMagnetMagnate
    Looks like in this case...if it sounded to good to be true - it was? We was punked?

    No, free Wi-Fi isn't coming to every US city

    No, free Wi-Fi isn’t coming to every US city | Ars Technica

    http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireles...medium=twitter


    But the story about the 97% profit margin is still going...
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      Looks like in this case...if it sounded to good to be true - it was? We was punked?

      No, free Wi-Fi isn't coming to every US city

      No, free Wi-Fi isn't coming to every US city | Ars Technica

      The Real Story Behind 'Super WiFi' And The Fight Over Spectrum; It's Not What You Read Yesterday | Techdirt


      But the story about the 97% profit margin is still going...
      They make it sound like that kind of hybrid I spoke about. I wish I could remember what it was called. It IS in two predominant rural areas here. I remember musing about how they are predominantly AMISH areas! The AMISH are generally FORBIDDEN to use such things. If they are caught, they could be shunned! But it is NOT free! If it were, I would have it.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Alot of things have to do with collecting information.
        Seems to me that at times so much information is collected it becomes a big swirl of "data" and though it's collected no one seems to know what to do with it. Within a year or two, they could forget where they put it.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Well the vote for a free phone crowd is going to be very disappointed, MMM.
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