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The Gibson Les Paul Thread - I gotta give em Credit- If you dont like Electric Guitars, Ignore This.

by John Durham
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If you are interested in Gibsons...You might like this post.

Guitarists are generally in The Gibson Camp Or The Fender Camp. All Other Guitars are just knock offs of those two with rare exception. I guess Im in both camps even though I tend to lean toward Fenders primarily.

A tip:

If you want to spring for a $4,000 Les Paul, thats great, but Gibsons Epiphone Line has a couple of models that have better features in my opinion and sound just as nice.

This "Prophecy" model is only $600.00 and it's frickin amazing if you ask me, ebony fret board, American pickups.... all the appointments of a 4 digit guitar. I like it.

The Cherry sunburst model (GX) has a classic Gibson sound, or maybe better if you ask me. The "EX" (Blue), on the other hand, has active pickups for more modern metal (Metallica) type sounds. I like GX personally, for the more classic Les Paul Sound. It's more dynamic. Both of these are awesome!

  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I have a hunch the old guy in the yellow sweater knows a thing or two about the Les Paul guitars.

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  • Profile picture of the author JustVisiting
    Thought I'd prefer the EMG loaded guitar (EMG's could make even a plank of wood sound good) but after comparing them I prefer the Gibson pickups.
    The GX Cherry Sunburst does it for me. IMO 24 frets and a flatter fret board is a step forward. Appears to be amazing value at $600.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by JustVisiting View Post

      Thought I'd prefer the EMG loaded guitar (EMG's could make even a plank of wood sound good) but after comparing them I prefer the Gibson pickups.
      The GX Cherry Sunburst does it for me. IMO 24 frets and a flatter fret board is a step forward. Appears to be amazing value at $600.
      EMG's are very limited and arent good for much more than metal sounds IMO,compared to passive pickups which are much more dynamic and responsive, and good for many styles.

      I think this vid really shows that difference.

      I appreciate your ear that you heard that.

      I like the GX better too. Especially with the coil tap to where you can switch to the single coil sound

      Glad this thread helped someone make a distinction for themselves!

      -John

      Ps. I also like the satin back finish and the neck profile. Just wish the GX came in more colors.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Lol...

    Kurt, Jeff beck is so die hard "Strat", that even plays one to honor Les Paul. lol Gotta love that.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kurt
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      Lol...

      Kurt, Jeff beck is so die hard "Strat", that even plays one to honor Les Paul. lol Gotta love that.
      I love how Les tries to unplug JB's guitar, then a few minutes later JB tries to turn the knobs on LP's guitar.

      BTW, here's an album cover with JB playing a Les Paul:

      On this Cliff Gallup tribute album, JB plays a Gretsch the whole time:

      And now back to our regularly scheduled program...Here's one of the COOLEST TV commercials of ALL TIME:
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

        And now back to our regularly scheduled program...Here's one of the COOLEST TV commercials of ALL TIME:
        Coors Banquet (Featuring Les Paul) - YouTube

        Thanks for the chuckle!

        Les Paul is truly one of the most groundbreaking people the music industry has ever known... Like the other vid stated, without him we wouldnt even have multi track recording.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kurt
          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          Thanks for the chuckle!

          Les Paul is truly one of the most groundbreaking people the music industry has ever known... Like the other vid stated, without him we wouldnt even have multi track recording.
          It was a great commercial.

          IMO, Les Paul was the one single person most responsible for the sound of modern music. I consider "modern music" to be music that uses electricity in any way.

          According to me, modern music began in about 1942, which saw the Mudday Waters band switch to electic music, being the first popular electric band.

          I have an old collection of Muddy Waters songs and it's fascinating to listen to them in the order they were recorded...

          First, Muddy's song were all acoustic delta blues. Then, you hear Willie Dixon switch to electric bass. A little later, you can hear Little Walter start playing his harmonica into a mic. And after that, Muddy Waters starts playing an electric guitar, creating IMO the first modern music (electric) band.

          And Les Paul was the single biggest influence with the creation of electric guitars.


          Here's a Muddy Waters song from 1941:

          Here's one from 1948:

          You can really hear the evolution of music...
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by Kurt View Post


            And Les Paul was the single biggest influence with the creation of electric guitars.

            .
            Well actually the Les Paul wasnt created until 1952, and the fender telecaster was created in 1949, known as the "esquire" in 1950, which later turned to the "broadcaster" , then the "Nocaster" all in the same year because of trade mark infringements on the name "Broadcaster", by 1951 it was a full blown popular product on the market and they named it the "telecaster".

            The "Les Paul" was Gibsons attempt to capitalize on the market created by Leo Fender for solid body electric guitars.

            They went to "Les Paul" , the most popular guitarist of the time, and asked him to design it... He wanted a black ebony fretboard because he felt it made his fingers look better playing, and he wanted the guitar to look classy like a "tuxedo", and thats why the first ones were black with white binding all around the body , neck and headstock.

            Leo Fender was responsible for putting solid body electrics on the market and making them popular, but the Les Paul soon followed, neck in neck... (No pun intented- Because Les Pauls necks are literally dove tailed into the body like one piece almost, and that is one of the biggest differences , because fender necks are "Bolt on", which is a main reason why Gibson feels their guitars are superior, because of the wood craftmanship, whereas fenders are more work horse guitars, designed partially for making quick modifications. It's harder to modify a Les Paul in many regards... one being that "You paid $4,000 for it" lol).

            In any event, Gibson WAS the first company to start doing "electric" guitars, they were "hollow bodies" though; the modern solid bodies were really introduced by Leo Fender.

            Little interesting fact there.

            Still, the Les Paul is arguably the most sought after and desired guitar in the world. Fenders are more accessible in the $1,000 to $3000 price range. Even a LOW END Les Paul Retails for almost three grand, and they go sky high up into $10,000 range.

            Vintage guitars from the 1950's of either brand can sell for up to $200,000 or more.

            It's arguable, but I feel both brands have equally influenced the guitar world.

            Les Pauls do tend to be more highly esteemed, but if I could only have one guitar it would have to be a Strat, at ANY price.

            It's a personal taste thing.

            Another favorite Gibson for me is the Es335.

            Alot of Jazz, Fusion, and Blues guys use those, but they are great for hard rock too. BB King uses a similar model, It's not an ES 335 (Lucille) I cant remember the actual model , but its something close.

            Thanks for the vids, will check those out in a minute!

            -John
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            • Profile picture of the author Kurt
              Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

              Well actually the Les Paul wasnt created until 1952, and the fender telecaster was created in 1949, known as the "esquire" in 1950, which later turned to the "broadcaster" , then the "Nocaster" all in the same year because of trade mark infringements on the name "Broadcaster", by 1951 it was a full blown popular product on the market and they named it the "telecaster".

              The "Les Paul" was Gibsons attempt to capitalize on the market created by Leo Fender for solid body electric guitars.

              They went to "Les Paul" , the most popular guitarist of the time, and asked him to design it... He wanted a black ebony fretboard because he felt it made his fingers look better playing, and he wanted the guitar to look classy like a "tuxedo", and thats why the first ones were black with white binding all around the body , neck and headstock.

              Leo Fender was responsible for putting solid body electrics on the market and making them popular, but the Les Paul soon followed, neck in neck... (No pun intented- Because Les Pauls necks are literally dove tailed into the body like one piece almost, and that is one of the biggest differences , because fender necks are "Bolt on", which is a main reason why Gibson feels their guitars are superior, because of the wood craftmanship, whereas fenders are more work horse guitars, designed partially for making quick modifications. It's harder to modify a Les Paul in many regards... one being that "You paid $4,000 for it" lol).

              In any event, Gibson WAS the first company to start doing "electric" guitars, they were "hollow bodies" though; the modern solid bodies were really introduced by Leo Fender.

              Little interesting fact there.

              Still, the Les Paul is arguably the most sought after and desired guitar in the world. Fenders are more accessible in the $1,000 to $3000 price range. Even a LOW END Les Paul Retails for almost three grand, and they go sky high up into $10,000 range.

              Vintage guitars from the 1950's of either brand can sell for up to $200,000 or more.

              It's arguable, but I feel both brands have equally influenced the guitar world.

              Les Pauls do tend to be more highly esteemed, but if I could only have one guitar it would have to be a Strat, at ANY price.

              Though the single coil sounds these modern Les Pauls can get even make THAT "almost" arguable. It's a personal taste thing.

              Another favorite Gibson for me is the Es335.

              Alot of Jazz, Fusion, and Blues guys use those, but they are great for hard rock too. BB King uses a similar model, It's not an ES 335 (Lucille) I cant remember the actual model , but its something close.

              Thanks for the vids, will check those out in a minute!

              -John
              Hi John,

              I didn't mean to imply that Les Paul created electric guitars, only that he had immense influence on their creation.

              Actually, IIRC, Les Paul's first attempt with an electric guitar was in 1929. And he had his "log" before the Gibson model.

              Toss in multi-tracks and his many other inventions, such as the wah-wah pedal and whammy bar(?) and also consider that Leo Fender never played a guitar in his life, plus Les was a great player and the first guitar player to become a star during the TV era, I still say LP had a greater impact on modern music than anyone else.

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            • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
              Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

              Leo Fender was responsible for putting solid body electrics on the market and making them popular, but the Les Paul soon followed, neck in neck... (No pun intented- Because Les Pauls necks are literally dove tailed into the body like one piece almost, and that is one of the biggest differences , because fender necks are "Bolt on", which is a main reason why Gibson feels their guitars are superior, because of the wood craftmanship, whereas fenders are more work horse guitars, designed partially for making quick modifications.
              I've been playing strats since I was a kid. Got my first one in 1959 or 1960. Did have an ES 335 for a while during college years, be came back to Fender.

              It seems to me the necks on a LP are rather fragile. Drop the guitar, and the neck breaks off. My mother ran over my Fender with the family station wagon one afternoon. She was driving me to my music lesson, I set the guitar down on the driveway right behind the car while I ran back into the house to get something. (Yeah, I know... stupid kid.)

              As mom backed the car out, the wheel drove over the guitar's neck. The Fender case was smashed to splinters, but the guitar was unscathed.

              :-Don
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              • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                Originally Posted by Don Schenk View Post

                I've been playing strats since I was a kid. Got my first one in 1959 or 1960. Did have an ES 335 for a while during college years, be came back to Fender.

                It seems to me the necks on a LP are rather fragile. Drop the guitar, and the neck breaks off. My mother ran over my Fender with the family station wagon one afternoon. She was driving me to my music lesson, I set the guitar down on the driveway right behind the car while I ran back into the house to get something. (Yeah, I know... stupid kid.)

                As mom backed the car out, the wheel drove over the guitar's neck. The Fender case was smashed to splinters, but the guitar was unscathed.

                :-Don
                Yeah , if you drop a Les Paul and break the neck, you are done for. Fender? They are stronger than a horse! lol If the neck breaks....Just bolt another one on! I always go back toward Fender too.

                Man if you still had that 1959 strat it would be worth some big money!

                This one is going for close to $35,000

                http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1959...item3a7d383ad0
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    [QUOTE=John Durham;7800581]If you are interested in Gibsons...You might like this post.

    Guitarists are generally in The Gibson Camp Or The Fender Camp. All Other Guitars are just knock offs of those two with rare exception. I guess Im in both camps even though I tend to lean toward Fenders primarily.

    Who came first

    how can you say there are only two camps of guitars and all others are knock offs when rickenbacker went electric in 1932, or is that a rare exception?
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      [quote=hardraysnight;7803249]
      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

      If you are interested in Gibsons...You might like this post.

      Guitarists are generally in The Gibson Camp Or The Fender Camp. All Other Guitars are just knock offs of those two with rare exception. I guess Im in both camps even though I tend to lean toward Fenders primarily.

      Who came first

      how can you say there are only two camps of guitars and all others are knock offs when rickenbacker went electric in 1932, or is that a rare exception?
      I said "generally".

      Rickenbachers are more obscure guitars... though a few artists play them they dont represent a HUGE market share. They dont have even a fraction of the popularity that Fenders or Gibsons have , so I dont consider them personally to be the most influential, (even though the "Beatles" played them).

      However they WERE the first "Hollowbody" electric. Even though "Gibson" was the company that made hollow bodies popular.

      Gibson created a solid body once as a prototype in the 1930's or forties, but it didnt go into production. Leo Fender was the first person to create a "solid body" (modern) electric that was actually mass produced and made a dent in the electric guitar culture.

      Yes, I would say Rickenbacher is a rare exception, but what percentage of the guitar playing population really plays them by comparison to Gibson or Fender guitars?

      What I quoted was that guitar players "Generally" fall into one of two camps. If you ask me Ibanez, and Charvel, and Kramer, ...they are all knockoffs of Gibsons and Fenders. This opinion is widely shared.

      Richenbacher made the first hollow body electric, but it was Gibson who really put them on the map. And Fender put solid bodies on the map.

      You are correct though, I was wrong, the first "hollow body" electric guitar was a Rickenbacher. Forgot about those.
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      • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
        [quote=John Durham;7803428]
        Originally Posted by hardraysnight View Post


        I said "generally".

        Rickenbachers are more obscure guitars... though a few artists play them they dont represent a HUGE market share. They dont have even a fraction of the popularity that Fenders or Gibsons have , so I dont consider them personally to be the most influential, (even though the "Beatles" played them).

        However they WERE the first "Hollowbody" electric. Even though "Gibson" was the company that made hollow bodies popular.

        Gibson created a solid body once as a prototype in the 1930's or forties, but it didnt go into production. Leo Fender was the first person to create a "solid body" (modern) electric that was actually mass produced and made a dent in the electric guitar culture.

        Yes, I would say Rickenbacher is a rare exception, but what percentage of the guitar playing population really plays them by comparison to Gibson or Fender guitars?

        What I quoted was that guitar players "Generally" fall into one of two camps. If you ask me Ibanez, and Charvel, and Kramer, ...they are all knockoffs of Gibsons and Fenders. This opinion is widely shared.

        Richenbacher made the first hollow body electric, but it was Gibson who really put them on the map. And Fender put solid bodies on the map.

        You are correct though, I was wrong, the first "hollow body" electric guitar was a Rickenbacher. Forgot about those.
        it may be rickenbacker were more of an english thing, they were hugely popular among english bands in the 60's.

        at least one 60s english rocker, should that be, english 60s rocker, cut his rickenbacker neck in half so it would fit in his suitcase

        my father has told me they were virtually impossible to get in the colonies in the 60s. even now they are still over $3000 new, an investment for sure

        the 360/6 and 360/12 will always be remembered as a significant contributor to the sounds of the 60s, at least in the places not rooted to a police action in south east asia

        i could rabbit on about rickenbacker and the beatles, but will not

        here is a link on george's 360/12, lo and behold it is in gibson.com.....

        http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyl...eorge-413.aspx

        and if you want a guitar like george, look no further than the rickenbacker 360/12c63. you may not be able to play like george, but the guitar is an accurate replica, might be easier, and cheaper, to grow a moustache and look like george
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    I can't begin to imagine what the guitars I had as a kid and teenager would be worth today. Original Fender's! The only one I have from that era is a Guild Mark II classical guitar. I think it cost around $350 back in 1965. If memory serves me correctly, a Strat was about $300. That was a lot of money back then. It would be equivalent to around $3600 today.

    :-Don
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    @ hardraysnight

    Thanks for the education. I have to study Rickenbacher more now.

    I have always thought of them as being kind of obscure like "steinberger" or something. It may be time to take a second look. I have always thought they were kind of aesthetically displeasing also, and never cared much for the Beatles guitar sound, but I guess thats a personal opinion that should not carry any weight in such debates.

    I know rickenbacher BASSES are still desirable to alot of bass players though, and admittely, their solid body basses are nice, even to me... I always hated the look of Paul McCartneys hollow body though.

    Also, I think the lead singer of "Rush" used a rickenbacher solid body bass exclusively up until recent years and was a big endorser. I think he uses a fender precision bass now mostly.

    -John
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    lemmy plays rickenbacker bass so they must be good

    they released a limited edition, very limited to only 50

    now worth about 10,000 if you can find one - a real work of art
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