Dietary salt may trigger autoimmune diseases(?) ...

by Alexa Smith Banned
27 replies
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... note: I said "trigger", NOT "cause".

New work from the Broad Institute's Klarman Cell Observatory, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard University, MIT, and Yale University expands the understanding of how one type of immune cell -- known as a T helper 17 or Th17 cell -- develops, and how its growth influences the development of immune responses. By figuring out how these cells are "wired," the researchers make a surprising connection between autoimmunity and salt consumption, highlighting the interplay of genetics and environmental factors in disease susceptibility.

Source, and more details: Circuitry of cells involved in immunity, autoimmune diseases exposed: Connections point to interplay between salt and genetic factors
#autoimmune #dietary #diseases #salt #trigger
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Don't doubt the research but if I stopped eating every food or seasoning that might have a causal relationship or be trigger for some disease or other....I'd end up eating broccoli grown organically with no flavoring added.

    That means eating blah with the protein provided by the worms that inhabit broccoli grown "naturally". Would take a lot of the fun - and taste - out of living, wouldn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author Jajistan
    I can see no reason at all why salt would be able to trigger auto-immune disease.

    Salt would affect osmosis in the cells and can affect nerve cells but to trigger an immune response? I can see no mechanism for this.

    Yes, I am one of those annoying Healthcare Scientists that wants to see a good reason for health claims. You should try reading the Daily Mail over here in the UK. It is full of this sort of crap on a daily basis: Today Coffee cures Cancer - tomorrow, Coffee causes Cancer!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by Jajistan View Post

      You should try reading the Daily Mail over here in the UK. It is full of this sort of crap on a daily basis: Today Coffee cures Cancer - tomorrow, Coffee causes Cancer!
      This one's actually from three papers published in "Nature", following research at the Broad Institute's Klarman Cell Observatory, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Yale University. Perhaps slightly more scientifically reliable and interesting than the Daily Mail? :rolleyes:

      Originally Posted by Jajistan View Post

      I can see no mechanism for this.
      Oh well - that settles it, I suppose: all those Harvard, MIT, Yale and other professors must be making it all up, just in the hope that someone will mention them in the Warrior Forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author Jajistan
        Oh well - that settles it, I suppose: all those Harvard, MIT, Yale and other professors must be making it all up, just in the hope that someone will mention them in the Warrior Forum. [/QUOTE]

        That must be it

        What I said was that I could not see any mechanism for why dietary salt would trigger autoimmune disease - not that I was rubbishing the claims.

        Here is what I shall do - I shall read the report and the papers and then come back with a rounded scientific view. That is what scientists do; not just decide whether something is true or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I can see how it does - the average box of salt over here is not pure - it's loaded with aluminum and sometimes other metals as a byproduct of manufacturing. I only use sea salt. It's more spendy but I'm not ingesting heavy metals. I wouldn't go out into the wild and eat halite crystals, yet that's all salt is.

    Jajistan - If your scientific mind wants to know every factor in the research...well, that's what pubmed is for. It publishes the actual studies before they are edited (written into articles) for magazines (I'll probably check more into this one myself as I find this pretty interesting).

    I don't use tons of salt anyway, so I doubt I'll fall into dementia tomorrow (um........deeper into). I use salt mostly to help me retain water when I'm going out into desert regions to rock hunt. Maybe I shouldn't do that any more. I might not be able to remember what I'm looking for when I get there
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Crap. I'm looking for this in pubmed and can't find it. I HAVE to find it. I wanna know what's happening when I pour tons of salt on my watermelon or tomatoes.

    Well - I give up. As far as the info in your link Alexa - it's very interesting info. I just wonder about the salt used in the experimentation. I'm wondering if it's actually the sodium or something else in the salt. I guess for now I just take it at face value because I can't find the study.
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    • Profile picture of the author AprilCT
      We use salt sparingly in home cooking, but it's so difficult to ration it when eating out as restaurant food seems to be quite generous with salting everything.

      Sal, so you put salt on watermelon, too? I've often wondered what sugar would taste like on it, and will probably try that this summer although I think the salt will win the flavor challenge. The sugar will only go on a very small piece for the taste test.

      Possibly the biggest thing the researchers could do would be to help people identify themselves as prone to developing MS before it happens so they can reduce their salt intake.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Is this really a "thing", putting salt on watermelon?

        Oooooh, yes, apparently it is: there's stuff in Google about it ("it must be true: I read it on the internet").
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I LOVE salt on watermelon. I also eat salt on grapefruit and green apples, tomatoes and cucumbers. Not so much on anything else. So Alexa - once again, the Internet told you the truth.
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  • Profile picture of the author Big Rob
    I love salt on cantaloupe. Well, technically, they are muskmelons, true cantaloupes are European. And love it on tomatoes, too.

    Like Sal, I use sea salt. Did not know of the heavy metals in table salt, though.

    My wife and I use very little in cooking, with the above exceptions.She has a heart thing, and I just aint into it. Oh yeah, I had a minor heart thing too

    I am with you,April. Restaurants freaking overkill with the salt. Most TV chefs salt everything as well.

    I use saline spray daily, I wonder if that counts as well?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by Big Rob View Post

      I use saline spray daily, I wonder if that counts as well?
      Not if it's "physiological saline"/"0.9% saline"/"Ringer's saline": you can ignore the salt content of that, for these purposes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jajistan
    Yes HeySal, I'm having the same problem and cannot even open the article on the Nature website. Nature is not the greatest science journal in the world and has a similar reputation to the Lancet amongst medics.

    As far as salt use, in India they use rock salt of fruit as it enhances the sweetness of most fruits although they tend to use more than my tastes can manage. In my wife's country of Mauritius they marinade pineapple and mango to name but two in salt and chillie which is delicious.

    My biggest issue with salt is its over consumption leading to atherosclerosis, high blood pressure and increased risk of stroke. LoSalt claims to help reduce ones sodium intake, however it contains potassium chloride, which in too high amounts can cause muscles to cease up by misplacing sodium and calcium from the nerves. One such very important muscle that can be affected is the heart!

    What I found more interesting about the article and where I feel that the headline editor rather failed the article is that it is really looking at the genetic predisposition of individuals and their environmental contraindications such as smoking, infection and low Vit-D levels. These studies initial findings could help people with familial autoimmune disease to maybe have genetic screening done to see if they also are at risk and will be able to take measures accordingly.

    Where the salt comes in is the link to the enzyme encoded on the region SGK1 which has been implicated in many conditions previously including heart disease and infertility and relates to regulation of Sodium and potassium channels.

    My issue with the article is that at the time of writing or editing, somebody has taken sodium and ran with that knowing that people already have concerns with salt. There really is much more to this than just salt.

    All the same, an interesting article even though it should to some extent be taken with a pinch or two.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jajistan
    Apologies for following a post with a post but just in reply to earlier comments; my brother in law is a chef and he really canes the salt in his cooking. Why do these guys think that they have to over season their food. Personally I think that it ruins the shuttle flavours that a developed pallet should be able to pick up.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I once read something about some diseases to be salt related and others sugar related. Asthma was supposed to be salt related while diabetes was sugar related, thus people couldn't have both diseases at the same time. I don't remember much else about it - or even remotely remember the source. It was way before Internet. Anyhow - I never did any follow up study on it. Not sure if it even started to be factual. Just was interesting to me at the time.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jajistan
      Haha, the UK Daily Mail has got hold of this story and will know doubt flog it for ages:

      http://http://www.dailymail.co.uk/he...=feeds-newsxml

      For those who do not know the Daily Mail, it is a nasty little rag that verges on racism, puts down women who "dare" to go outside in sunlight with cellulite......oh......and they like the odd "health" story that they can spin.
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      • Profile picture of the author jimbo13
        Originally Posted by Jajistan View Post

        For those who do not know the Daily Mail, it is a nasty little rag that verges on racism, puts down women who "dare" to go outside in sunlight with cellulite......oh......and they like the odd "health" story that they can spin.
        Not sure it verges.

        Anyway here is your link. Think you had a little extra on the end of yours that stopped it linking.

        Could junk food increase your risk of MS, asthma and eczema? Scientists link SALT to autoimmune diseases for first time | Mail Online

        Dan
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Jajistan View Post

        For those who do not know the Daily Mail, it is a nasty little rag that verges on racism, puts down women who "dare" to go outside in sunlight with cellulite......oh......and they like the odd "health" story that they can spin.
        I've sometimes referred to it here as apparently a xenophobic gutter-sheet with the same standards of integrity and journalism as the National Enquirer. Oh wait, that means we're in agreement ...
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Funny, I was just having the salt on watermelon conversation the other day.
    Sparked by my putting salt on my slice of watermelon. Someone else at the diner
    said they use salt on pizza (pretty good actually). Like those other threads, maybe our brains are getting connected by the electrochemical reactions from salt consumption?

    Interesting study.

    It would be interesting to know if there is a difference between table salt and
    sea salt for this type of research. It seems like either type of salt might have
    heavy metals components these days, depending upon the source. Or other components.

    The research - as per the article - seems to lend itself to the same criticisms
    as the mice and artificial sweetener causes cancer research. What is high
    salt level for mice as compared to humans? (Personally, I need to keep up on salt
    intake or I can feel dehydration symptoms. I take a salt pill or gatorade once in a while.)

    Also, I don't see how the research transfers outside the lab because we are exposed
    to so many other factors.

    Dan
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by bizgrower View Post

      Funny, I was just having the salt on watermelon conversation the other day.
      Sparked by my putting salt on my slice of watermelon. Someone else at the diner
      said they use salt on pizza (pretty good actually). Like those other threads, maybe our brains are getting connected by the electrochemical reactions from salt consumption?

      Interesting study.

      It would be interesting to know if there is a difference between table salt and
      sea salt for this type of research. It seems like either type of salt might have
      heavy metals components these days, depending upon the source. Or other components.

      The research - as per the article - seems to lend itself to the same criticisms
      as the mice and artificial sweetener causes cancer research. What is high
      salt level for mice as compared to humans? (Personally, I need to keep up on salt
      intake or I can feel dehydration symptoms. I take a salt pill or gatorade once in a while.)

      Also, I don't see how the research transfers outside the lab because we are exposed
      to so many other factors.

      Dan
      Salt IS a mineral - you find it and quarry it just like any other mineral. It's Halite. It's only like one or two on Mohs scale of hardness. The crystals are pretty kewl but it dissolves fast, then re-crystalizees when it's dry. . That means there might be different inclusions depending upon the source matrix. I believe that sea salt has a higher general and trace mineral content than halites on land. There could be anything in it. Even radioactivity (thinking of the halite quarries in NV.).
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  • Profile picture of the author Jajistan
    Not sure it verges.
    &
    xenophobic gutter-sheet
    Yes these both also fit.

    Oh wait, that means we're in agreement ...
    Funnier things have happened
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Oh yeah! Count me in for the salt on watermelon crowd. I also have to have it on my grapefruit as sugar on it is just nasty and I eat my apples with a salt shaker in hand.

      I love to salt my cucumbers too, well, unless they're pickles.

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        I've always thought that J.B. PriestleyJ.B. Priestley was a man ahead of his time ...
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      • Profile picture of the author Jajistan
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Oh yeah! Count me in for the salt on watermelon crowd. I also have to have it on my grapefruit as sugar on it is just nasty and I eat my apples with a salt shaker in hand.

        I love to salt my cucumbers too, well, unless they're pickles.

        Terra
        Honestly, you haven't lived until you have eaten ripe mango off the tree, with salt and chillie. It's hot and it's sweet and followed by a good rum it is magical. Of course, do not eat every day and drink plenty of water.
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        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by Jajistan View Post

          Honestly, you haven't lived until you have eaten ripe mango off the tree, with salt and chillie. It's hot and it's sweet and followed by a good rum it is magical. Of course, do not eat every day and drink plenty of water.
          Oooh, I love mango salted too, but chillie as in red hot chili peppers?

          I'll have to take your word on that one. See the thing is, I don't really have a penchant for things that burn going in and coming out.

          Oh, and when isn't rum magical, lol?

          Terra
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post


            Oh, and when isn't rum magical, lol?

            Terra
            The morning after it was used as fuel for a Magical mystery tour.
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        • Profile picture of the author Brian John
          with all this salt-on-watermelon talk i keep thinking of ol' petey greene lol...that guy was awesome, as real as they come. i can't watch him without smiling, it's impossible.

          for the definitive word on the salt/watermelon debate listen from 2:55-3:30...

          not trying to sidetrack ur thread alexa (good one btw) but couldn't resist
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    The same study - I think - has digressed:
    Yahoo! Shine - Women's Lifestyle | Healthy Living and Fashion Blogs

    OY
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