Where Does Lightning Come From?

11 years ago

It comes from clouds' failure of capacitance.

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Dennis Gaskill

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

With all of his questions, my-3-year-old-son is making me wonder about things anew, basically reminding me that I am a living encyclopedia of vast ignorance.

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

lol - I like that phrase. Mind if I steal it from you?

Originally Posted by thunderbird

No problem, be my guest.

Well thanks, TB.

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thunderbird 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Well thanks, TB.

You're welcome. LOL.
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- Dennis Gaskill 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by thunderbird
  
  You're welcome. LOL.
  
  Do you think anyone noticed?
  
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  Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.
  
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Sarevok

11 years ago

It seems the interaction of negative and positive charges may result in lightening.

Precipitation theorists suppose that different sized raindrops, hail, and graupel get their positive or negative charge as they collide, with the heavier particles carrying negative charge to the lower part of the cloud.

Convection theorists believe that updrafts transport positive charges found near the ground upward through the cloud while downdrafts carry negative charges downward.

Source: NSSL: Severe Weather 101: Lightning

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kenmichaels

11 years ago

Originally Posted by thunderbird

With all of his questions, my-3-year-old-son is making me wonder about things anew, basically reminding me that I am a living encyclopedia of vast ignorance. The latest spontaneous pop quiz from him was about lightning. I don't know where lightning comes from! He informed me, "From outer space." Really? I did vaguely recall a theory about lightning's energy coming from extraterrestrial sources. I looked it up, seems he might be right. But, where did he pick up that notion? Curious George (the monkey)?

Could Lightning Come From Space?

I like your kids questions better then mine.

I got a pop quiz about what were only big boy words.

A whole string of words, that i never even new he heard.
Much less could say and put in context.

I seriously need to figure out where he has learned these words.
I asked with each word, every answer was different.

Including him telling me Sonic the hedgehog tought him the words
"Silly Bitch"

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thunderbird

11 years ago

Originally Posted by kenmichaels

I like your kids questions better then mine.

I got a pop quiz about what were only big boy words.

A whole string of words, that i never even new he heard.
Much less could say and put in context.

I seriously need to figure out where he has learned these words.
I asked with each word, every answer was different.

Including him telling me Sonic the hedgehog tought him the words
"Silly Bitch"

Kids pick up words like flypaper...from people walking by, at the supermarket lineup, at the neighboring table in the restaurant, much of it stuff that we didn't overhear ourselves.

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seasoned

11 years ago

I think Jason is close. I never REALLY thought about the MOST basic reason, but here is the rest....

Electricity is EVERYWHERE! ****EVERYWHERE****! Rub your feet on a new carpet, and you will pick some up. In a circuit, the power is ALWAYS looking to be relieved. Well, the upper layer picks up electricity from many things. The only REAL unknown is from what exactly. but it does.

It has a problem in that it has to reach the ground, and air is a VERY good insulator. It was found LONG ago that putting two conductors on either side of an insulator holds the charge in place. They named it a capacitor.

If something upsets the balance, like a rain storm, which makes the air more conductive, the charge finds it's way to earth. Realize that the capacitor has been storing up power for a long time, and air is a good insulator, so the smallest lightning strike is still a LOT of power.

If you could make a computer that was fast enough, and had sensors that are good enough, you probably COULD predict it's course. In fact Ben Franklin found ONE variable and used it to create a simple device to save homes, etc.... If you could create something more conductive, and higher, than anything else, nearby lightning would go for IT! If it were connected to the ground, the electricity would simply take that path.

BTW there IS a reason why a short circuit is called a short circuit. It is a connection making a circuit that is the shortest path, and by passes all else. The lightning rod is a good example.

Steve

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Jason Kanigan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

I think Jason is close. I never REALLY thought about the MOST basic reason, but here is the rest....

Electricity is EVERYWHERE! ****EVERYWHERE****! Rub your feet on a new carpet, and you will pick some up. In a circuit, the power is ALWAYS looking to be relieved. Well, the upper layer picks up electricity from many things. The only REAL unknown is from what exactly. but it does.

It has a problem in that it has to reach the ground, and air is a VERY good insulator. It was found LONG ago that putting two conductors on either side of an insulator holds the charge in place. They named it a capacitor.

If something upsets the balance, like a rain storm, which makes the air more conductive, the charge finds it's way to earth. Realize that the capacitor has been storing up power for a long time, and air is a good insulator, so the smallest lightning strike is still a LOT of power.

If you could make a computer that was fast enough, and had sensors that are good enough, you probably COULD predict it's course. In fact Ben Franklin found ONE variable and used it to create a simple device to save homes, etc.... If you could create something more conductive, and higher, than anything else, nearby lightning would go for IT! If it were connected to the ground, the electricity would simply take that path.

BTW there IS a reason why a short circuit is called a short circuit. It is a connection making a circuit that is the shortest path, and by passes all else. The lightning rod is a good example.

Steve

Well at least one person (me) is really glad you thought about it.

The cloud is the capacitor, yes.

And no, even though we use electricity every day, we still don't understand it. We have a model of reality, subatomic particles, etc., that explains most phenomenon, but it doesn't explain everything and electrons may not exist.

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MissTerraK 11 years ago

Well sheesh, guys. I think you're over thinking this. I thought everyone knew that lightening came from the sky, lol! :p

Terra
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- Jason Kanigan 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  Well sheesh, guys. I think you're over thinking this. I thought everyone knew that lightening came from the sky, lol! :p
  
  Terra
  
  Actually it comes from the ground up. Seriously.
  
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  MissTerraK 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan
  
  Actually it comes from the ground up. Seriously.
  
  Actually, it is both. Seriously.
  
  Lightning streaks inside a cloud, between clouds, and from clouds to the ground. Lightning is a flow of electrons (a negative charge) that zigzags downward in a forked shaped pattern (scientists call this a step leader). As it nears the earth, a stream of positive charges moves up to the charge of electrons (negative charge). When they meet, the power flows. We can't see this because it moves too fast (first stroke). The return flow (positive charge) moves upward more slowly. This is what we see and call lightning (return stroke). If there is a flicker, the upward stroke is repeating the process.
  
  Well, that's it in a nutshell.
  
  Terra
  
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Kay King

11 years ago

HowStuffWorks "Electrical Storms"

That's probably my favorite explanation above.

When my sons were young we'd often head off to the nearby university library (the largest library available) when questions like this came up. Today you need only go online....

A couple of magnets are a good way to demonstrate the positive/negative charge.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

When my sons were young we'd often head off to the nearby university library (the largest library available) when questions like this came up. Today you need only go online....

Well, this is true ... but you also need more care and judgment to distinguish online between information and myth. The reality is that - actually for several reasons - there's far less "quality control", overall, behind the publication of online information than most things you can find in a library. And that's perhaps especially true with scientific information.

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Well, this is true ... but you also need more care and judgment to distinguish online between information and myth. The reality is that - actually for several reasons - there's far less "quality control", overall, behind in the publication of online information than most things you can find in a library. And that's perhaps especially true with scientific information.

Yeah - but I think a University (.edu) website can answer a question about lightning.

I used to have to answer questions like why is grass green and why is the sky blue for my nephew all the time. It seems odd explaining chlorophyll to a 4 year old kid, but it was really interesting to see how much of that info he actually was able to deal with. We had some good chats --
and I was extremely glad I was in an astronomy class in school at the time he was asking about some stuff so I could answer without the embarrassment of not knowing. He caught me on a few that I had to research first, though. Smart kids can keep you on your toes for sure.

Still need to research one, though - - why do guys always think that a woman has to be a mother-in-law to be frightening?

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Horny Devil Banned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Still need to research one, though - - why do guys always think that a woman has to be a mother-in-law to be frightening?

We're talking generals here. The infantry are mere irritants like flies, in comparison . . . but training to be generals unfortunately.
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