She had the nerve to cop an attitude with the cross-examiner.


I wouldn't be surprised if the defense keeps her on the stand longer than Dennis Fong of Simpson trial fame which was 9 days. ( I think )


But even Marsha Clarke said that the jury will probably not hold those 3-5 little white lies by the teenager against her - but we will see.

This is a complicated case where there is no simple good guy vs bad guy. Both of them probably behaved with poor judgment, though arguably this is a lot more serious when one is carrying a loaded gun.

Jurors, like the general public, will probably be inclined to come to their conclusions based on their race and socioeconomic status. This is sad but usually true. Middle class white people will tend to identify with a lighter skinned property owner who is acting as a protector (supposedly). Minorities will be more likely to see Trayvon as the victim of racism.

Who is right? Probably neither. Who is less wrong? We may never know.

I just read a post that says exactly my point. Sadly, due to the nature of the site, I should not link there, so I will just show the whole post here:

Steve

It's ALSO possible that we see that there is NO evidence that trevon was pursued past that point. FACE IT! If trevon were merely pursued, once he past the end of the property, Zimmerman would have a LOT of trouble defending things, etc... Yet that NEVER came up, so they are claiming trevon loitered or some such? Zimmerman said he was on his way back to the car when he was puched out of the blue, and DECKED! Johnathan Good, the only REAL witness, said he saw trevon on the ground sitting on Zimmerman, and beating him.

MEANWHILE, the effectively deaf and blind witness on the prosecution said, among other things, that zimmerman was a racist because TREVON used racist comments Saying that he was followed by a "creepy ass cracker". She THEN said it was NOT a racial comment, perhaps because she realized it was detrimental.

INTERESTING how things went from a young 12yo innocent with skittles and ice tea pursued by a racist white to a big 17yo that was a racist and fighting a hispanic MMA style, HUH! This must be the longest fight in history. I mean it had to last 5-6 YEARS! And what of the media that removed a statement and then blatantly said it NEVER existed!?!? They ran with that concept as their WHOLE story!

They CLAIMED the 911 call was:
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. He looks black.”

It was REALLY:
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about,” Zimmerman said.

The dispatcher asked, “OK, and this guy – is he black, white, or Hispanic?” Zimmerman replied, “He looks black.”

Steve

Maybe the concept of "neighborhood watch" escapes people. The idea is that if someone looks suspicious, and you don't know if they live there, you watch as much as you can until they leave the area, enter a residence in a normal fashion, or somehow otherwise cease seeming suspicious. If you don't see them finish with something, like entering a residence legitimately, maybe note it. Some people may go out of their way to continue. HEY, it is THEIR right! Failure to follow up on such suspicions can lead to vandalism, theft, and perhaps murder!

If they do something VERY suspicious, like entering a place through a window or back door, or loitering as if to do so, tell someone else and/or call 911. And YEAH, zimmerman did that! He called 911, mentioned trevon was loitering and acting suspicious.

Even if he were still walking, etc... What is he SUPPOSED to do? Lie down on the street and wait until morning? NO, he has to continue on with his life, or go home. He said he was going to his car, to do just that.

One person this afternoon said trevon had a right to be there. Actually, he DIDN'T! He was trespassing, and apparently loitering. If he had to get home, he could have simply walked home ON THE SIDEWALK! Some say "BUT IT WAS ***RAINING***!!!". OK, so what is the hoodie for? We've come round robin! If the hoodie served no LEGITIMATE function, it must be ILLEGITIMATE, which makes it suspicious. If he stayed on the sidewalks, and kept walking, he would have seemed less suspicious, and would have not broken any laws.

If you have a gun, the reason is *****NOT***** to counter a gun! It is to use lethal force against another using lethal force. If zimmerman was getting his head bashed in, and could shoot, he has a right to do so.

Steve

lol - same story different day - the ot sure is informative and argumentative.

;o)

snarky fur shur! proud of it. but personal attacks "ad homiem' yeah that is like relative to blame the victim - shoot the messenger.

seriously though the argument about whether Travon is innocent or baddy -

-- totally irrelevant. sure if he was menacing or actually committed crimes, you can do a better job of 'blame the victim' (and even be glad the little mother is gone from the earth if he was bad/violent/dishonest) -- don't rationalize just that little sprinkle of racism that goes with DAT- excuse to fail @ being a 'liberal' lol.

p.s. - more relevant would be whether zimmerman had exhibited violence and debauchery since he is the one that DID the killing in this case!!! hello???

EVEN if Travon was Al Capone (convicted) it still would not be the case that you could just murder him because you felt like it. Or because you were afraid. (come to think of it, fear i can almost see how someone who is unbalanced mentally or spiritually sick (or dead) might go to that end) -

... so maybe second degree murder or something less than first. (unless history of violence or hate crimes, then maybe the penalty could be to the max @ 2nd degree)

(and celly with Big Bad Bubbah)

But anyway as Rodney King Sez: "Can we all JUST get along"?

not in the warrior off topic basement rodney. no wusses here!

but yeah you guys all get along well, well mostly, lol and if having to NOT TELL THE TRUTH AS YOU KNOW or FEEL to 'GET ALONG", with others we care enough to try to communicate with, IT wouldn't be being honest. Friendship under false pretenses.

It would clearly be diametrically opposed to honesty, and "POLITICAL".

naughty!

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin...143356744.html

Maybe they should just throw out what she says. It IS, at best, hearsay anyway!

Steve

Yeah. it really sounds like it was a retaliation killing.

Z got his ass beat and THEN decided to retaliate, and THEN shot T. so self defense would be T was on top of Z and Z feared for his life and he killed T. justifiable homicide.

but if T got up and walked away or somehow they were not directly engaged in 'combat' and THEN Z took his revenge. it's not self-defense, not understandable.

(I am not really following this on the news - just scanned a few stories from time to time - so I am really asking if this is what happened - (most of what I am learning about this is right from here).

So if anybody knows the story do tell.

hmmm well - this does sound like it could be called self defense to hear this version and if the evidence really supports it - thanks simonjnh.

so maybe poor Z just 'bit off more than he could chew' by pursuing this when the cops told him not to - and then when faced with the results of his actions, he felt he had no choice but to shoot.

maybe it is not as clear cut as the other things I have heard fragments of (and maybe misconstrued) -- and not really following the case that closely - and now playing catch up.

so does Z have a permit to carry a concealed weapon?

i still think with this version which seems very pat in favor of self-defense, that Z provoked the situation AND had that gun on him - quite conveniently? it seems like he deliberately set out to do this (indirectly - not saying pre-meditated but again, he may have envisioned himself as a 'hero' and wannabe cop who would subdue T and protect his hood from an 'interloper'. The tables turned in a way he didn't expect and then he made a 'fatal decision' to shoot T - then I would still need to know exactly how far away T was -I guess back to the part about whether T had gotten up off of Z or not.

Yeah, what do you believe? Do you believe a changing story that seemed to start with a propagandized tape, story, and pictures, makes no sense, has NO evidence, and has NO witness, that shows the "victim" to have a lot of undue racially motivated animosity? Do you believe a story that is in lie with the REAL tape, has been consistent, has a witness and tangible evidence?

I hope the set him free, and that he wins the case against MSNBC, etc... HECK, what MSNBC did was VERY racist! It was the most racist thing of all! HOW can they try a guy for supposedly killing one person due to race, and not try others that INTENTIONALLY tried to destroy a person's life and perhaps encourage the killing of millions of people? Those edited tapes, shows, etc... may be around for another hundred years!

Steve

Let's not forget that it was the media who brought the racial component into this case - not Zimmerman or Martin. The 911 tape was edited by NBC where the dispatcher asked for the description of the suspect (Martin). Zimmerman gave a description, among this was "he's black", and NBC edited out everything but "he's black" making it seem like it was racially motivated. It was THAT that caused the fecal matter to hit the air circulating device.

Even Al Sharpton got quiet as more details came out, in particular when he realized that Zimmerman's own grandmother was black. This isn't a racially motivated incident, it's just been portrayed as one by the media.

That said, lets look at the facts:

1. Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch.
2. Zimmerman called 911 before anything went down.
3. Zimmerman had injuries consistent with his story.
4. The only witness who actually saw anything gave testimony consistent with Zimmerman being the one on the ground, getting beaten.
5. The police and EMT's who have testified thus far indicate that Zimmerman's demeanor was not that of a man who had just committed an act of murder. He was confused that no one responded to his cries for help, he wasn't aggressive, he was cooperative, etc. All of the police and EMT's seem to be in agreement on this.
6. The only "witness" - and I say this in quotes because it wasn't witnessed in person, just over the phone, was Martin's girlfriend who has lied, changed her story, claims to have written a letter in cursive but can't read cursive, etc. She isn't credible. At all.

Did Zimmerman commit murder? Not even close.

Now ... manslaughter? Maybe. Really that all depends on one thing: who started the fight.

If Zimmerman got out of his truck and started a physical altercation with Martin, or flashed his gun, then it was Martin who would have been acting in self defense - the fact that Martin happened to be "winning the fight" doesn't make Zimmerman's shooting self defense, it makes it Manslaughter.

But if Zimmerman simply asked Martin who he was/why he was there/told him to leave/whatever, and Martin copped an attitude and started the fight - which is likely based on the alleged tone of the conversation he had with his girlfriend - then it was Zimmerman who was defending himself, which would absolve him of all charges.

I even heard, though I have trouble confirming, that Zimmerman even was a big brother to a BLACK child in the big brother program!

But YEAH, outside of NBC, only TREVON(with his "crazy ass cracker" comment) brought race into it.

The defense witness tried to say they all call whites crackers, etc... And that "crazy ass" was kind of a swear to single Zimmerman out. Still, Blacks aren't crazy about the N word being used in that way. Even huckleberry fin has been banned for using it. And huck fin is HISTORICAL, even if potentially only fiction. There are historical works out there that insult EVERYONE! One group says that "Br'er Rabbit" is a story that was made to be VERY insulting to whites!

But we shouldn't care about the cracker term, because they so freely use it.

Steve

I find it amazing how much people are thinking about this. Well, now I'm on it too, lol. What I am finding a hard time imagining here is how the self defense scenario could have played out. If T was on top of Z pummeling him, would the latter really be in a position to pull out a gun, aim and shoot it? It seems that you would need a certain amount of freedom of movement to do this. This would suggest that the shooting occurred when the two were not directly engaged. I really don't know, just speculating like everyone else.

I don't speak for all Black Americans but this was simply embarrassing. It was an explosion just had to happen. I have lived in a predominately Black community for years. I grew up in an all White community. I know both worlds. My next door neighbor in a all Black neighborhood was president of the neighborhood watch. She stood on her lawn and walked up and down the street constantly. It was kind of strange but with her help and other neighbors it cut down break ends a great deal. The thieves went to other streets because they knew people had a watch. The kids got killed. That is the most extreme action. If he wasn't breaking and entering there is a real problem here. The police could and most likely should have been called. A warning should have been shouted out at a distance. There is a Neighborhood Watch procedure. They do not have authority to take a man down simply for hanging around. The police should have been called and he stood down at a distance. So this is ugly. Racially ugly. We have a serious problem with race in this country. It never heals. But how Zimmerman felt about the kid and how the kid felt about Zimmerman was laced with the gas of racism and hatred which so ignited him the teens death. Black on Black crime is racially motivated. White on Black crime is racially motivated. 400 years of slavery is not going to be sweep under the rug with legislation. There was an outrage on a recent commercial showing a biracial family. The commercial was pulled. I do believe that Whites will never understand the damage slavery does to a people. What did to the Black American race of people. Slavery was a brutal institution. It was ugly, harsh and generationally damaging. In our rush for the appearance of the soul of Black folks were sacrificed. Who is the blame. Recently Paual Dean was fired over the N word. Nigger is the world. We say N but it was Nigger. I heard Paula Dean say that her great grandfather had 30 slaves on the books and after emancipation he had zero and his business suffered. He paid the big price. She then said that Blacks were our friends. No Paula they were your slaves. They didnt get paid and they would be lynched and hanged if they ran away. Paula is so racist it is so ingrained in her she can't see it. Should be feel bad for those who lost slaves and lost income as a result. I believe she doesn't think she is racist but she is. I always believed she was. She glorifies the old south. Back when they could sit on the front poach and some Blackie would make sweet tea. She even said that. In the same interview she said "I have black friends" hey (she called the worker) she points to a board and says. He is as black as that board behind us. She calls hey, you know your as Black as the board. Come out so they can see". The lady is racist. The lady is a card carrying racist. A racist doesn't have to wear a white sheet. Now...you have as many White haters as Black racist. What is the definition. A racism is a systematic process. I am going to risk saying this...But I didn't believe America could handle having a Black president so soon. Black people don't own big corporations. We have only one Black on the stock exchange. He may have retired already. We had a few Black generals and a Black secretary of state. I thought this would be a disaster. I hear more damaging things about Obama than I have heard about any one president. The question is where do we go from here. When do Blacks stop looking towards White America for what they can do for themselves. When will Blacks network and create more opportunities for themselves. I think Blacks have stopped doing this. When will White start getting it that racism has and still does benefit them. That many Whites are die hard racists. Our country is at a place where we have to get passed color. We have to. Now we are adding immigrants by the millions which will make it even more diverse and more confusing. I dont see how this is going to work well for anyone really. Thanks for having the courage to post your response here. It gives me the courage to reply.

Regarding a description of the right to carry a gun - reference is here in this thread somewhere.

1. The question of a permit to carry - not sure still whether Z has one.

2. Reading the description of how this would be a normal thing while on watch patrol to carry the gun - It smacked of ENTITLEMENT -

So carrying a gun then ENTITLES one to use it? Because you are on 'watch patrol' it is normal to carry and thereby you are justified in using it? Nope - even real cops have to be put through the mill if they use their guns to be sure it was justified.

The whole scenario here just seems like Z was 'gunning for' T - out to get him = that was the purpose of Z's actions. While Z wasn't crazy enough to just assassinate T like a sniper, it is frightening the way it all played out to set this up for T to be gunned down.

Further, I am not at all implying anyone here is racist - but this always plays to the crowd of secret and not-so-secret racists, that somehow by virtue of geneology this person was suspect from the get-go - even as the unarmed and dead victim - the gunman was thereby entitled and justified. Having a gun or a permit to carry does not entitle anyone to off someone - They are painting a picture that is wide open to 'interpretation' by elaborating on the fact that T was not a saint, and gasp he was suspended from school therefore the shooting was justified.

Omigod he was walking on the grass???? In the rain???? Definitely a reason to get shot.

Z sounds more and more like a vigilante -

What a thread.

I think this is my first venture into the 'off-topic' world here at WF.
I don't know if any of you saw the news regarding testimonies today? Basically the cops testified that Z is innocent and it was a clear case of self defense. Apparently Martin attacked him, knocked him down and told him that he would kill Z.
Neighbor says he saw T beating him and Z yelling for help before the gunshot. Seems like the case is done already?

Here's one of the 2 reports I looked over if anyone is interested:
http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/07/01...-kill-someone/

If NBC hadn't edited the 911 tapes to make Zimmerman sound like a racist, this wouldn't have even been on the news. The story would have been some punk threw a punch at the neighborhood watch and got his ass shot. They'd have given Zimmerman a medal and a gold plated Desert Eagle for eliminating the problem.

Once the media brought race into it, everyone started choosing sides. Frankly I'm shocked by some of the comments I've seen on this thread, from people making the assumption that this was somehow racially motivated. It wasn't. That was the media. The only "race problems" we have in this country are with the people who get hung up on race, and try to spin a street brawl into a "hate crime". Take that crap out of the picture and focus on the facts of the case, not how the fact that the people involved were different races, it has nothing to do with it.

He has a grandparent that is black! He is hispanic. It is rumored that he is a big brother to a black in the big brother program. It is amazing that people assume he is racist! WHAT? If you are black the assume you aren't racist, and if you are not black they assume you ARE? NEITHER is true!

Steve

Things people do not know about Zimmerman:

Rescued a black homeless man from being beaten by a white man, and made sure the kid was prosecuted(It was a police officers son).


Mentored black children.


Has a black grand parent.


Etc.


The media just continues to lie about this to the public for some reason.


He NEVER continued to follow Martin after he was told not to. Another media lie. Zimmerman should be fully exonerated. All evidence is fully, 100% against Martin from what I have saw. I have been following this case closely.

Tim,

If I were doing that, EVEN where I have my house, you can bet I would be stopped ALSO! I was once harassed by a police officer FOR NO REASON! HE said it was because I was there so early in the morning! I only got ONE warning!!!!!!!! He said that the next time I am stopped by a police officer, I should stay in my car because I COULD HAVE BEEN SHOT!!!!! I am NOT kidding!

He even asked me questions like where I came from. I told him, though I was not THAT sure about the street as I knew how to get there. He called me a liar and said that street was one I would pass if I kept going. I checked later, and found we were BOTH right! I don't know WHAT his problem was but, as I said, he let me go, and I just wanted to go to bed!

Was it RACIAL? Well, I am a middle class white and was driving a nice middle class car. HE was white. I probably looked like I could have lived there.

I have had such a thing FOUR TIMES! TWO were "for a reason". The other two? WHO KNOWS!?!?!?

Steve

Wow.. how the hell did I miss this thread?!!!

I have been following this trial since day 1 (same as I did with the Anthony/Arias trials -- which, might I add, that my prediction rating so far is 100%)

EVERY SINGLE WITNESS for the prosecution has been in favor of Z.

I honestly don't even know why this is at trial.

The simple facts that:

1, Zimmerman NOT ONCE changed or altered his story of how it went down.

2, Every witness called so far has only helped Z.

3, STAND YOUR GROUND..........

4, "Creepy ass cracker" -- need I say more?

5, LEGALLY LICENSED TO CARRY.........

I mean wtf.. the list goes on & on..

Everything Z has said from the beginning collaborates his version of events.

Find him not guilty & be done with it. Also, prepare for the race riots when it happens.

After all, o'Bummer/Sharpton/Jackson.. they all had to stick their nose in it and make it about race.

What ever happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty???

"If I had a son......."

THEN, when "creepy ass cracker" came out in court, all of a sudden they started claiming it had nothing to do with race at all.

That's hilarious.

Now that the record shows that Trayvon was indeed racist, all of a sudden race wasn't an issue.. ha..........

Also hilarious, was Rachel's response to the question "You don't think "cracker" is a racist remark?"

"uh... nope....."

lulz........................

FREE G.Z.

PS.....

Nancy Grace is one of THE biggest flip-floppers I've ever seen.

Turn your boob-tube to HLN right now and see what I mean... wow....

1 day she is all for the defense. The next, she is all for the prosecution..

This media has tainted the shit out of this trial.

There is NO WAY that he is going to receive a fair trial.

While I might not agree with how the defense opened (the knock knock joke) I completely agree with the meaning behind that joke.

"Knock Knock"

"Who's there?"

"George Zimmerman"

"George Zimmerman who?"

"Good - you're on the jury"

...................................

Even worse -- no matter HOW the verdict comes back, Z is DEAD!!

If he is found not guilty, he will be murdered by the Black Panthers in the streets.

If he is found guilty, he will be murdered by the Black Panthers in jail.

He is screwed.. Royally.....

yeah - that doesn't sound racist at all.

so i guess then it is ok for me to say that Trevon wouldn't even be dead if he wasn't black.

nobody would have even noticed him.

Things on here are virtually PARADISE and the epitome of polite, compared to some on youtube.

Steve

Well, I am back to the fence as far as the actual case - it could be either way and could go either way - since I wasn't personally there to witness it - I will never know what actually happened.

Steve - yeah I forgot about Reginald Denny - those were malicious perverts who got that way in part due to their environment - including racism in both directions.

So again like most racism an entire race is painted with the same brush due to the lowest common denominator - a racist militant prison group and a bunch of street thugs, who are actually the minority.

FEAR of the unknown is responsible in part for racism as well as for this tragedy. I am sorry for what happened to them both and that both of them used bad judgement...

not sure why they keep bringing up the fact that there is none of Z's DNA under Trayvon's fingernails...

He said Trayvon punched him & smashed his head into the ground, not scratched him.

heh heh..

HI TERRA!

Happy 4th of July everyone!!!!! :p

Im off to shoot off some more fireworks.. lots & lots of artillery shells to go thru, plus it seems that since I started, we have a neighborhood competition going. hahahahahah

Mr. Z. also forgot that he took a class that revolved around understanding "stand your ground" laws and the teacher said he was one of the better students.

Mr. Z. went on Hannity and said he knew nothing about the stand your ground laws so I guess he forgot he took that class.

So hurt... Now it is illegal to get out of your car, EVEN if only to find out where you are. AND, according to the context and implication, you are a criminal if you get out of your car. WOW!

Zimmerman was at least a neighbor, and, like hurt's store example, a stranger trespassing doesn't mean he is safe from others. To follow that reasoning, a person could go break into a home, kill a person, and go out the back without ANYONE being able to stop them.

Steve

Claude,

In this day and age, it MIGHT have been videotaped. It is possible that someone videotaped it and hasn't come forward, doesn't realize it, or forgot.

Steve

Claude,

I know. I was just saying....

Kurt,
WOW even dumb WORD PLAY! And thought potty jokes were dead. OH WELL....

Steve

OH, this person can say all she wants about bias and all. SHE is biased for the prosecution and STILL is making the case AGAINST it! I would NOT want jeantel to be MY star witness, in such a case!!!!!

The smearing of Rachel Jeantel - Salon.com

Steve

Rachael Jeantel: Reluctant, scared, tired, pained to hear the person she was talking with being shot; horrified at having to testify (the attitude); trying to shield herself from seeing Trayvon in a casket knowing she was the last friendly person on earth to talk to him before he died; hearing his voice over and over and over again every day of her life since Trayvon's death; scared to go to sleep because she is sure to see Trayvon in her dreams, overeating to quell the pain, hyper, despondent, having to get up each day and work at putting one foot before the other just to get through another day which will go on for the rest of her life. Imagine that and she is only 19 now. How many years will she live? How excruciating is the power of this incident in this young woman's life. This and probably so much more!

What of current and future friendships? How fearful is she when talking to anyone on the phone and the sounds of raised voices are heard? What flashbacks will she forever experience? What of marriage and children? How will they be impacted; what will be their legacy from a wounded, broken mom who had the unfortunate experience of hearing someone's life being taken away? What of this life, Rachael Jeantel, that has been forever changed in unimaginable ways?

How can any of us judge her unless we have walked a mile in her shoes? How can any of us have pat answers for something that someone else has experienced that all of us hope and pray that we do not EVER have to go through.

What of her support network? Does she have one? What of the possible atrocities that could be going on in her own life? What of the struggles she is going through?

It seems, no one cares!!! Three lives immediately involved; families changed forever and the rest of us go back to business as usual in preparation for the next judgment seat we will sit on without compassion for the one who is suffering through the incident.

One thing for sure: Whatever happened during this unfortunate and untimely event ending in death, George Zimmerman KNOWS exactly what happened and IF he is guilty of murder, may his days be long, miserable and unrelenting in guilt until he comes clean. If he is not guilty, may his days be filled with relief from the burden he is sure to carry for the rest of his life. After all, someone did lose their life that day! I wish only peace for his parents, such as it can be with the fact that their son is just not coming back.

For the rest of us, I pray that we never have to walk in any of their shoes.

What really has me upset about this case is that George Zimmerman said he wouldn't change anything that happened. If I had killed someone I would regret that for the rest of my life. Even if it was in self defense. It seems so callous to say "I killed someone and I don't care".

Bonnie

The real problem is that so many want to shape the facts around their beliefs instead of the other way around.

BTW, the hoodie is for keeping the rain off of your head. Works for me if I don't have an umbrella. Seems strange now that someone can't wear a hoodie to protect themselves from the rain! Seems even stranger that some will vilify someone JUST because they are wearing a hoodie.

What have we come too?

I'm going to enjoy watching Kim and Claude say basically the same thing in different ways as they debate each other. Good times, good times.

Terra,
Get your mind out of the gutter girl!

The emphasis was on "debating intelligent people"

It's alway Terra who has to take everything straight to the gutter.

Trying to add "abuse of a minor" is ludicrous.

IF they were going to allow the child abuse charge (which they did not) then it would have been MORE than fair to charge the little wanna-be thug's parents with child neglect for even letting him out that late in the first place.

But hey, I'm a little pissed off over here and probably venting. So I'm sure the Sharpton/Jackson crowd is going to call me a racist for this for even bringing that up.

As my wife's co-worker would say... WHAT EVZ!

The news is reporting the jury is done for the day.

I pity anyone where their future is dependent on a jury, that have no clue what's going on. Both sides (defendant/plaintiff) will lie through their teeth to win. Meanwhile the jury is sitting there for hours thinking screw this I want to go home with my $17 Gov. check.

Is it true that if the jury doesn't come to a conclusion, they get to stay in hotels and order room service at the expense of the state like in the Simpsons?

We don't have jury duty in Canada (or if we do, no one told me).

Dershowitz: Zimmerman Prosecutors 'Should Be Disbarred'

As for cacker being "just the way they talk"? So is the N word ALSO! So is it OK if we start using it? Samuel Clemens, and many southern whites used it, so I guess the N word is ok to say now ALSO!

As for cracker? Until some black used the term at a Michael Richards act, and MR over reacted, I didn't even know the term. He DID react though, and people understood, so it OBVIOUSLY is as insulting to some whites as the N word s to blacks!

And words mean NOTHING! HECK, it is interesting that the people that SO want to ban words change them SO often that many are now WORTHLESS! But the INTENT! And why do they not say white, or caucasion, or some such? NOPE, they said CRACKER! To make it CLEARER, and clear to ANYONE, they add "crazy ass".

Steve

I have been tempted to get a gun many times. But I have been told never to pull it out unless I am ready to use it - and it is just such a scenario as some dumb teenage kid in the hood gone wrong, where I would seriously not be able to pull the trigger - that is consciously - who knows what happens when we are terrified.

What just keeps niggling at me is how many kids have been suspended from school? Why is this any kind of justification that it was ok to kill him? This fact and everything else he did in his short life should not have any significance AT ALL - it is completely beside the point and is what I mean by bias.

Was he guilty of loitering? Does this justify being killed? No - only if he was a direct threat to Z's life then it may be understandable.

... and again because some OTHER black kids had been arrested for robbing the complex or whatever, AGAIN this is racial bias to therefore use it as justification to kill him.

Whether Z is found guilty of 1, 2 or 3 - we will all have to agree to disagree and move on. I hope lots of teenage punks learned a lesson as well as the vigilantes. There are consequences to having 'free will' - sometimes fatal.

I am surprised more of you here did not volunteer to be expert witnesses for this trial.

Mike Anthony, I had to laugh at this:
"Or Marijuana....I know ton loads of white, black, hispanic kids that unfortunately have used that and not been vicious plus he didn't have enough to affect his actions that night."

While I agree with the first part, that many have used it without getting violent, How can you say he did not have enough to affect his actions? Were you there hitting the blunt with him? :rolleyes:

By the way, Zimmerman refers to himself as hispanic. It is the press that has always tried to make him white. Following the logic of some here, that would make Obama white.

Steve,
I may not have made my point,which was that with pot,it is not quantity but quality that determines how much it takes to affect someone.

New Black Panther Party coy on 'rallies and street maneuvers,' post-George Zimmerman trial - Washington Times

Take hispanic and black out of the equation and what do you have? (Leave whites out as there were none involved ).

The closing arguments pleaded with the jury to not base their decisions on emotion all the while they're constantly showing strong emotions.

Do as I say, not as I do. :rolleyes:


Zimmerman trial: Day 24 - Defense makes case to jury - YouTube

Mike Anthony
There is one thing that is common in all your posts in this thread.Insulting members of the forum that don't agree with you.


While I never claimed you were there,I did point out the fallacy in your argument.
Maybe you should go into stand up. Clearly critical thinking and logic are not your areas of expertise.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimW View Post
Take hispanic and black out of the equation and what do you have? (Leave whites out as there were none involved ).

Mark Anthony:
"Two human beings.......Novel concept for you isn't it?"

Obviously not. :rolleyes:

Treating people with decency is not a novel concept for me either,maybe you should try it sometime?

The legal analysis of Mike Anthony is pretty funny.

JUSTICE HAS BEEN DONE, as much as is possible! NOT GUILTY!

Steve

Seriously. You can't be so stupid as to go off twitter talk can you? Should I now link to a white supremacist site that incites to kill black people?

[DELETED]

Who GIVES A SHIT about the reason he was suspended???

I LOVE how you failed to acknowledge the rest of my post -- mainly this part:

You gonna tell me THAT isn't a wanna-be thug?

Please, do try.

The fact of the matter is this:

TM was NOT some "little kid" as the media would have you believe.

He was a thug-in-the-making. Plain and simple.

PS - if you still refuse to find some of the photo's I'm talking about, by all means, just let me know.

I'll do your research FOR YOU and embed them here.

TM was NOT some "innocent kid" by a long shot.

But hey, I guess since the jury wasn't allowed to see it, you can't be bothered to find it yourself.

After all, "he was JUST ABOUT to turn his life around!"

ha.

It is INCREDIBLE! The case was considered a NON ISSUE! The media FALSIFIED evidence! The witnesses FOR THE PROSECUTION BUILT the defense case! The prosecution LIED! Their STAR WITNESS LIED, and STILL managed to make it clear GZ was INNOCENT! They TWISTED TESTIMONY! They VIOLATED THE BRADY RULE! They LIED ABOUT TREVONS AGE, EVEN ON THE CLOSING REMARKS! They tried to change the rules with a RIDICULOUS "legal theory"! They built a case on FICTION! They FIRED an "expert witness" because he called attention to the brady violation! A major well known attorney said PUBLICLY that the prosecution lawyers should be DISBARRED, because of their disregard for all of the above!!!!!!!!!

BTW for all the non americans..... It is REQUIRED in the US that ALL people representing others in a court be ADMITTED in that state to do so, and that DEMANDS that they be members of the bar, and that demands that they pass a test. DISBARRING means that NONE of that is recognized, and you are BANNED from it, which means you can't practice law anymore! Disbarment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After ALL of that, you STILL feel the verdict was WRONG! Legally, they HAD to vote not guilty, because there was NO EVIDENCE!

Steve

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post
ummm.......... duh. You Don't even have a point anymore. They would have no reason to ask for it if they were deliberating on second degree. Its not both but one or the other."

This is what I believe Yukon was talking about.
Neither he nor I lied.

I haven't been here quite 2 decades but am coming close.
I don't need to lie.
I did put it up.
You can call me on anything you like.
No one that I know of said you claimed they would rule manslaughter.
As you asked someone earlier...can't you read?

HERE YA GO!



Zimmerman Defense Releases Trayvon Martin Photos, Texts « CBS Miami



That SURE looks like he was "turning his life around" to me, doesn't it!?

Stealing your mother's gun, growing your own drugs, giving the finger to the camera..

Ah yes, such a SWEET young child!

HA...

Again, GIVE ME A BREAK.

Of course!

When approached with the FACTS, all of a sudden you "dont care" and you're "out of here"

"BIG DEAL" that Trayvon had guns, drugs, GREW drugs, THREATENED his own "friends" for not believing he was "gansta enuff" and so on!

BIG DEAL! Right!?

He was clearly a young, innocent boy who was "just about to turn his life around!"

LMFAO. You are a complete joke.

If you think those things are "irrelevant" in any way, I seriously hope you are not a registered voter.

The ignorance in that post of yours is off the charts.

But since you're "out of here" now that you have absolutely NO WAY to try and rebut what I posted -- good riddance.

The texts and photos don't lie.

The injuries to GZ don't lie.

The FACT that 'lil thug wanna-be had NO injuries other than the gunshot wound DOES NOT LIE.

But whatever.. as someone on here once said, never try to argue with ignorance, because they will just bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

They must have had your post habits in mind when they said that, judging from these most recent BS claims of yours.

Later.

PS -- FREE GZ! (oh wait, they already did because the FACTS proved it was self defense!)

All this pontification about 'profiling' just kills me. Geez, are you people just stupid?

You think you aren't 'profiled' every time a policeman in a cruiser looks you over?

Fitting a profile doesn't mean a person is guilty of anything, obviously - just as NOT fitting a profile doesn't mean a person hasn't done something against the law.

Profiling is about likelihood - nothing more, and it's based on experience and history.

No matter how much 'progressive' people want to deny the obvious, race/ethnicity is a part of the mental profile that everyone creates when they look at someone else. Your mind takes in all of your past experiences, your present situation, the circumstances, even the time of day - and makes an evaluation of whether you should be concerned or not.

Who's more likely to be a terrorist - an 80 year-old grandmother, or a mid-20s middle-eastern man?

A young black kid walking in neighborhood plagued by breakins, late at night, in the rain, with a hood over their head, raises suspicion. You can deny it all you want, but it does, and it should. Not just because he's black. Not just because he's a kid. Not just because he has a hoodie. Not just because it's late at night. Because of ALL of it.

People can like it or not, cry foul all they want, but the simple fact is that there are some profiles that mesh with certain types of crime in certain areas, and ethnicity is a part of that profile.

I mean, really. Pull your head out. If you were in the deep south in the 50s and tasked with finding out just who was under the white robes and hoods of the people who just attacked a black family, would you REALLY be politically correct and question all of the middle-aged men, black and white, in the area? If you did, you'd be an idiot.