Australia: Kruddy is PM again!

11 years ago

Hmmmm, this thread is tippy-tieing, so l will only say that he should leave his stuff in the moving boxes, when he moves into Kirrabilly house, at least for the next few months!

Shane

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rondo

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Hmmmm, this thread is tippy-tieing, so l will only say that he should leave his stuff in the moving boxes, when he moves into Kirrabilly house, at least for the next few months!

Shane

a) I don't think anyone here knows what we're talking about!

b) I don't really care much for either side, but I reckon Kevin has a decent chance in September. I think it will be close.

Andrew

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by rondo

a) I don't think anyone here knows what we're talking about!

b) I don't really care much for either side, but I reckon Kevin has a decent chance in September. I think it will be close.

Andrew

I hate to say it, but I don't think the average American will know that PM means Prime minister, or what that persons jobs entail. And calling him KRUDDY certainly doesn't help. Still, I, for one, don't know enough about him to get involved.

Steve

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rondo

11 years ago

Interesting times indeed.

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Sumit Menon

11 years ago

Compared to American Democratic Party, is the Australian Labor Party to the left or the right? I heard that Rudd is to the right in the Labor Party. It is really hard to find info on Australian politics. I thought Rudd and Gillard were from different parties until I heard about Tony Abbott!

Don't wanna start a left-right debate. Just wanna know.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Sumit Menon

Compared to American Democratic Party, is the Australian Labor Party to the left or the right? I heard that Rudd is to the right in the Labor Party. It is really hard to find info on Australian politics. I thought Rudd and Gillard were from different parties until I heard about Tony Abbott!

Don't wanna start a left-right debate. Just wanna know.

Well, in the US the PROPER term is Democrat party, if THAT is what you are talking about. Interestingly a LOT of left sounding names abroad are actually quite far to the right of the democrats in the US. I don't know if I would say they are as far right as the old republican platform as a whole but many are in part.

Terms like labor(labour), or christian, or liberal, or conservative, or even really right or left, don't seem to mean so much anymore.

BTW I am American, and as such am defining left, right, conservative, liberal by their current meaning in the US.

Steve

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rondo 11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Terms like labor(labour), or christian, or liberal, or conservative, or even really right or left, don't seem to mean so much anymore.

It's weird that there is no U in the Australian LABOR party spelling!
Anybody know why?
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rondo

11 years ago

Yes it's confusing.

The Labor Party is to the left like the US Democrats, and it has both Right and Left factions inside it.
The Liberal Party is the conservative party - lead by Tony Abbott

Andrew

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Sumit Menon

11 years ago

Originally Posted by rondo

Yes it's confusing.

The Labor Party is to the left like the US Democrats, and it has both Right and Left factions inside it.
The Liberal Party is the conservative party - lead by Tony Abbott

Andrew

But, my confusion is whether the Labor Party is to the left considering the US Democrats as the center or to the right?

Funny thing. Liberal has such a different meaning in Australia and USA.

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rondo

11 years ago

If the Democrats are considered centre, then the Labor Party is probably further left overall.
The Labor Right faction is probably centre, and the Labor Left is more socialist.

Of course that's just my opinion. Here's what the party says:

"Today Labor defines itself as "a coalition that includes reformers, radicals, progressives, social democrats and democratic socialists united by a critique of the inequalities in society, a commitment to a more just and equal society, and the achieving of this aim by democratic means."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party

Andrew

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by rondo

If the Democrats are considered centre, then the Labor Party is probably further left overall.
The Labor Right faction is probably centre, and the Labor Left is more socialist.

Of course that's just my opinion. Here's what the party says:

"Today Labor defines itself as "a coalition that includes reformers, radicals, progressives, social democrats and democratic socialists united by a critique of the inequalities in society, a commitment to a more just and equal society, and the achieving of this aim by democratic means."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party

Andrew

as I said, such statements mean NOTHING to an outsider. The US founding fathers were pretty far right, and STAUNCH constitutionalists! They WOULD, however, have called themselves reformers, radicals, progressives, social democrats, and maybe even democratic socialists united by a critique of the inequalities in society, a commitment to a more just and equal society, and the achieving of this aim by any means necessary. OBVIOUSLY, it was tried democratically FIRST. They had a KING, and democrat means didn't really work.

Their LIBERAL, by definition, stance changed to conservative, by definition, only AFTER the country successfully broke off and became independent. Their positions didn't change, it was merely a name change.

Steve

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laurencewins

11 years ago

Rudd said he would never consider campaigning again and now he has done a complete 360. This is a first and it seems ridiculous to me but then again, politics was never an interest of mine. It will be interesting to see what happens now he is back in the big chair...for now at least.

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whateverpedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Hmmmm, this thread is tippy-tieing, so l will only say that he should leave his stuff in the moving boxes, when he moves into Kirrabilly house, at least for the next few months!

Shane

Except he'll actually be moving into The Lodge in Canberra as that is the official residence of the Prime Minister. Kirribilli House is the Sydney residence. The Office of Prime Minister has "digs" in all the capital cities no matter who occupies that office.

John Howard chose to live at Kirribilli for his own reasons, however the official residence is The Lodge.

Originally Posted by laurencewins

It will be interesting to see what happens now he is back in the big chair...for now at least.

The focus might switch back to Tony Abbott now as (according to polls) Rudd is far more popular than Abbott.

Also Malcolm Turnbull is far more popular than Abbott is, so there's a possibility that a "spill" could happen on the other side. Don't forget in the leadership challenge that saw Abbott become Opposition Leader over Turnbull, he only won by one vote from his colleagues.

Overwhelmingly Australians would prefer an election between a Rudd led ALP, and a Turnbull led Coalition. Perhaps we'll get that chance.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by whateverpedia

Don't forget in the leadership challenge that saw Abbott become Opposition Leader over Turnbull, he only won by one vote from his colleagues.

Forgive my ignorance here, but on that 1 vote, how many people voted overall?

Also, how are the choices chosen, such that you can have a vote by the public?

Does everyone have a vote for the PM, or is it kind of "representative", like in the US where people actually vote for electors who are to vote for the president.

Where does the queen come into the election, if at all?

Steve

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tagiscom

11 years ago

Yes it's confusing.

The Labor Party is to the left like the US Democrats, and it has both Right and Left factions inside it.
The Liberal Party is the conservative party - lead by Tony Abbott

Andrew

It is a bit more complex than that, l was reading today that Kevin current PM, wants to scrap the carbon tax, but the greens, will block it!

Greens are part of the Labour party, although there is tension between them.

As for the differences, without getting too political, Labour was voted in about 12-13 years ago, and after accruing debts, etc, they were voted out.

Then the Liberals got in and after about 10 years, and putting 40 billion into our piggy banks, they were voted out!

And now Labour is in, which it has been for a few years.

Gen Y's were the driving force for their reinstatement, although l think that the younger gen, were the driving force 10 or more years ago!!!! :rolleyes:

So, l won't get into sides, l will only say about the current situation, "same dog, different fleas"!

But it is good for a laugh!

Shane

PS at least Australians won't have to stumble around in the dark anymore, when walking home at night!

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Sumit Menon

11 years ago

Originally Posted by tagiscom

As for the differences, without getting too political, Labour was voted in about 12-13 years ago, and after accruing debts, etc, they were voted out.

Then the Liberals got in and after about 10 years, and putting 40 billion into our piggy banks, they were voted out!

Reference to this? It is stuff like these I like to read and what I meant by, it is difficult to find info on Australian politics.

I consider myself to the right but carbon tax is something I support. People shouldn't be able to pollute the air and get away with it. But, there should be an international agreement on the levying of this tax. So, someone in Australia or Europe pays this tax because of their laws while a company in India or China doesn't, then it wouldn't really serve the purpose. It become a game of Prisoner's Dilemma.

Carbox tax is what I would call a 'fair tax'. Everybody pays their fair share. Don't wanna pay the extra tax? Don't buy that car. Simple. You have a choice, unlike some other forms of taxation where other people vote taxes on you.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Sumit Menon

Reference to this? It is stuff like these I like to read and what I meant by, it is difficult to find info on Australian politics.

I consider myself to the right but carbon tax is something I support. People shouldn't be able to pollute the air and get away with it. But, there should be an international agreement on the levying of this tax. So, someone in Australia or Europe pays this tax because of their laws while a company in India or China doesn't, then it wouldn't really serve the purpose. It become a game of Prisoner's Dilemma.

Carbox tax is what I would call a 'fair tax'. Everybody pays their fair share. Don't wanna pay the extra tax? Don't buy that car. Simple. You have a choice, unlike some other forms of taxation where other people vote taxes on you.

Actually, people KNOW that they can't really have a limit. If they did, it would stunt things big time. So they have a limit in a kind of voucher. THAT is why it is called cap and trade. If you don't want to pay penalties(which raise prices and don't limit pollution) past the limit(cap), you can buy(trade) a voucher from another.

Still, there isn't too much CO, there is too little O2. And the more dangerous pollution components aren't CO based.

With regard to your car comment? you can simply stop breathing. Have you tried THAT yet? I mean people DO create a lot of CO2!

Steve

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tagiscom

11 years ago

Carbox tax is what I would call a 'fair tax'. Everybody pays their fair share. Don't wanna pay the extra tax? Don't buy that car. Simple. You have a choice, unlike some other forms of taxation where other people vote taxes on you.

In AU, electricity, etc has gone up 10% or more, and as the current voting trends were showing, no one wants to pay 10% more now, especially after a 50% increase over the last 5 years!!!

About 43% percent of the country is living month by month, and l am not saying this as a slur, it is what current trends are showing!

For good or bad right or wrong, at least 43% of Australians want a break!

Shane

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whateverpedia

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Forgive my ignorance here, but on that 1 vote, how many people voted overall?

Also, how are the choices chosen, such that you can have a vote by the public?

Does everyone have a vote for the PM, or is it kind of "representative", like in the US where people actually vote for electors who are to vote for the president.

Where does the queen come into the election, if at all?

Steve

Some good questions Steve.

Australians vote for a local representative who may be a member of a party or an Independent.

The party that gains a majority of seats (ie at least 76 out of 150) in Parliament becomes the government. Over the last 3 years we've had a minority government in that both major parties (ALP and LNP) only held 74 seats each after the 2010 election. Both sides had to negotiate with the minor parties (Greens and WA Nationals) and Independents to gain the 76 seats needed to govern.

The leader of each party is chosen by the members of the party that have been elected in the House of Representatives and Senate. In the case I mentioned, there were a total of 84 members.

Once a challenge has been issued, anyone can nominate themselves. In the case I quoted, there was another challenger (Joe Hockey) who was eliminated in the first round. In the second round Abbott won 42 to 41 votes. If there are a number of challengers, theoretically, the rounds of voting can go on indefinitely until a clear majority is held by one candidate.

In case you're wondering about the 84th vote, this is what happened to it:

There was one MP or senator who voted informally in the second vote. Sky News reported that the informal vote was marked with the word ''no''.

source: http://www.smh.com.au/national/shock...1201-k1uz.html

When a party can claim to having the confidence of 76 or more seats, the leader of that party approaches the Governor General to inform him or her that they can form a government. The GG duly signs all the papers and swears them in. The leader of the governing party becomes the Prime Minister.

After all that, the necessary paperwork is sent to the Queen who rubber stamps the decision, and life goes on.............

This week Kevin Rudd became leader of the ALP, by having 57 members out of 103 vote for him against the incumbent Julia Gillard. Because the ALP is the governing party, Rudd becomes the Prime Minister.

Further reading: The Australian Constitution

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madkoala

11 years ago

Hi,This my first post. Good that I found some people from home to chat if it's necessary.
I doubt whether anywhere else in the world would a country elect a new (I meant a used PM) WITHOUT allowing the voters the chance.
But, we will get just that chance in two months.
Anyway, I am not that serious about politics rather be involved into understanding how this all works and whether it can be rewarding.

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rondo

11 years ago

Originally Posted by madkoala

Hi,This my first post. Good that I found some people from home to chat if it's necessary.
I doubt whether anywhere else in the world would a country elect a new (I meant a used PM) WITHOUT allowing the voters the chance.
But, we will get just that chance in two months.
Anyway, I am not that serious about politics rather be involved into understanding how this all works and whether it can be rewarding.

Welcome to the forum. There's quite a few Aussies here.

Andrew