A rant and a question about WF : Frustrated beyond belief, what am I doing wrong?

by PandoraH

Posted: 11 years ago 14 replies

OFF TOPIC

I’ve been lurking on WF since 2009 and finally registered in 2011. When I first registered, I was still really new to the world of online marketing, and found the “community” of WF really intimidating. But I’ve been lurking a lot, and have learned a lot about online marketing from WF and hands-on work when supporting IM clients as a freelancer. A big thanks to the community here on WF for that

.

I’m making this post for a couple different reasons. One, it might seem odd that in one post I might say “my employer” and in another post “I’m looking for work”. It makes sense, if you know the backstory. I have an employer, but I only work few hours a week right now, and it will be several months before I work full time for my employer again.

Meanwhile, I/we still have projects to plan, for both myself and my employers business . Lots of questions about details keep popping up that prevent us from moving forward with small projects while we wait out our current financial difficulties with the business.

We both need to make money RIGHT NOW, and we have some awesome little projects we could do, if it were not for these stupid details. I offered to use my account to post and get the ability to reply/send PM’s so that we could interact with members selling WSO’s, and the community at large.

However, I still can’t PM and my question posts are proving to be useless. Maybe because I don’t have a success story to report, maybe because I don’t have much of an interactive history here and don’t look serious, maybe because I just don’t get the community here.

I’m seriously trying to play by the rules. I’ve avoided making pointless threads and replies to up my post count. I’m trying to post in ways that are suggested by the new member FAQ, and so on.

Today, for example, something came up that prompted me to move forward on something much earlier than we planned. And I got stuck with a little issue. I posted a new thread in the wrong area of the forums; me bad. I thanked both members who replied to my post, and said I’d go to the SEO forum and post there. (Yes, I did a Google and a WF search before I posted this thread, but no luck there either).

Rather then post yet another new thread in the SEO forum, I did a search and tried to find a likely thread I could post my question in, without totally highjacking the OP’s thread topic. I found one, and posted a reply that included my question. After I replied, the entire thread vanished from the SEO forum, and I can only assume that the OP or myself did something wrong.

Much, much later I finally posted a new thread. The thread is there, but there have been 0 replies and it’s on the 2nd or 3rd page, and will soon vanish into the netherworld of WF archives. Heck, for all I know, it’s because it’s the weekend, and summertime. I’m not completely sure if I should just give up, bump the thread, or what?

Is my approach to interaction here just bad luck, bad writing, or do I just need to be patient and keep playing by the rules until my interaction history here improves?

#private messages #questions & answers #warrior forum

Paul Myers

11 years ago

It's damned sure not bad writing. You're doing just fine in that category, ma'am.

Things are as slow here as they get at the moment, but usually pick up after the weekend after Independence Day. They don't normally get back into full swing until mid-August. There are still more than enough people around to help you with pretty much any issue, though.

You can send PMs now.

Posts with questions are trickier... You need to put them in the right sections and have clear subject lines that will attract the people who can answer them.

The SEO section is a crap shoot. Sometimes you'll get a slew of thoughtful and helpful responses, sometimes a run of spammers dropping links along with their mindless replies, and sometimes the local feuds will erupt and get a thread nuked. (I swear, we should rename that section "Waste Virginnie.")

Practice with the search function. And not just here. Google, Bing, and YouTube can often yield surprisingly useful results if you tweak your queries.

Paul

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tagiscom

11 years ago

However, I still can't PM and my question posts are proving to be useless. Maybe because I don't have a success story to report, maybe because I don't have much of an interactive history here and don't look serious, maybe because I just don't get the community here.

Well you have to remember that we usually go to the "Off Topic" part to get away from IM, so!!!!:rolleyes:

But l usually find that if l post something on two forums, one will get one or more responses and one will not.

Occasional neither will, but that is pretty rare, and for the record the WF, has the highest response rate, for my posts.

I also find if you ask too many questions, then you may not get a response; most online marketers time is precious, so they look at a large post, and think, l would like to help, but don't have the time???

As for the details, if it is graphics, or WSO's or creating a webpage with CPanel, or possibly even outsourcing software creation, then l could probably help.

Although graphics is probably my strong point!

Other members with other skills could probably help as well, and if it is relatively quick and easy to fix or create l am sure you can find help here.

But if it is complex, difficult or takes time, then some kind of compensation may be required?

Good luck...

Shane

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Joe Mobley 11 years ago

Coming from Paul, this is a high complement.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

It's damned sure not bad writing. You're doing just fine in that category, ma'am.

Paul

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PandoraH

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Thanks a ton, Paul for the comment about my writing (not my strongest skill) and the info regarding seasonal member usage of WF. I did in fact, suspect that might be part of the issue. I can send PM's now? Well golly gee, cool beans. My employer will be happy to hear this

. I won't ask how you did that, but thanks big time.

Originally Posted by tagiscom

Well you have to remember that we usually go to the "Off Topic" part to get away from IM, so!!!!

Occasional neither will, but that is pretty rare, and for the record the WF, has the highest response rate, for my posts.

As for the details, if it is graphics, or WSO's or creating a webpage with CPanel, or possibly even outsourcing software creation, then l could probably help.

Although graphics is probably my strong point!

But if it is complex, difficult or takes time, then some kind of compensation may be required?

Ha! Why do you think I finally posted in the Off Topic Forum? I'm not the most social creature, and hadn't even LOOKED at the Off Topic Forum until I posted last night. I can't speak about getting a response to posts more here than anywhere else, but I consider WF to be the best place online to discuss online marketing.

As for compensation for assistance, I'd be the last person to deny someone a few bucks for their help. In fact, I'd much rather reach out to members here who offer a service then hire someone through a freelancing site. And I'll be pushing that concept to my employer over the long haul.

As for your talents in graphic design, I shall keep that in mind. Want to send me a pm and quote me for a WP header image, logo and a general services quote?

Originally Posted by Joe Mobley

This is a huge problem here at the Warrior Forum. Some of the people that are trying, and do want to operate within the guidelines are left to figure out what happened in a given circumstance.

Additionally, this appears to be a non-problem as far as the moderators go. There is usually no response or a certain level of defensiveness about this topic.

Bump it! Dang-it bump it!

From a Warrior Forum point of view... You have been here how many years and you have how many posts?

Joe Mobley

<coughs> 2 years or something. Not very many. Sue me. I haven't felt like anything I had was worth sharing. I'm trying to come out of my shell a bit though, so like go away so I can do that in peace!

As for the moderation of the forum, I'm not about to diss the moderation system. A site this big needs it, and moderation here doesn't seem to be nearly as draconian as other sites I'm registered on. I don't really even care WHY something may disappear, unless I'm the cause.

I bumped the thread. My fingers are crossed. I've wished on a star. Yada yada.

Anyways, thanks a ton you three for responding to this post. I'm normally a very patient person, but for whatever reason, yesterday just was the last straw, or something.

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Joe Mobley

11 years ago

Originally Posted by PandoraH

I'm seriously trying to play by the rules. I've avoided making pointless threads and replies to up my post count. I'm trying to post in ways that are suggested by the new member FAQ, and so on.

...

After I replied, the entire thread vanished from the SEO forum, and I can only assume that the OP or myself did something wrong.

You have no idea.

Unfortunately, the result is that the overall quality of the forum is greatly diminished.

Originally Posted by PandoraH

Much, much later I finally posted a new thread. The thread is there, but there have been 0 replies and it's on the 2nd or 3rd page, and will soon vanish into the netherworld of WF archives. Heck, for all I know, it's because it's the weekend, and summertime. I'm not completely sure if I should just give up, bump the thread, or what?

Bump it! Dang-it bump it!

Nothing happens, something happens or you get a spanking. Go for it.

Originally Posted by PandoraH

Is my approach to interaction here just bad luck, bad writing, or do I just need to be patient and keep playing by the rules until my interaction history here improves?

From a Warrior Forum point of view... You have been here how many years and you have how many posts?

Get in here and start more threads, answer more posts, quit being afraid of what someone will think.

And good luck.

Joe Mobley

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Dennis Gaskill

11 years ago

Originally Posted by PandoraH

Rather then post yet another new thread in the SEO forum, I did a search and tried to find a likely thread I could post my question in, without totally highjacking the OP's thread topic. I found one, and posted a reply that included my question. After I replied, the entire thread vanished from the SEO forum, and I can only assume that the OP or myself did something wrong.

Threads get deleted for a lot of reasons, might be neither of you did anything wrong.

That said, you might want to go check the new thread you started. Someone may have answered you.

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Paul Myers

11 years ago

Pandora,

I won't ask how you did that

It's my superpower.

Joe,

This is a huge problem here at the Warrior Forum. Some of the people that are trying, and do want to operate within the guidelines are left to figure out what happened in a given circumstance.

Additionally, this appears to be a non-problem as far as the moderators go. There is usually no response or a certain level of defensiveness about this topic.

Okay. This is an almost understandable comment from someone who's brand new to the forum. Almost. Anyone who's been around as long as you have should bloody well know better.

Once more into the bleach...

Let's say we delete 50 posts a day that aren't bot spam and "SEO" link droppings, on average. (Just throwing a number out there, but it's probably not too far off.) We spend the time to notify all of those people about why their posts were removed. That's 50 PMs. Additional time spent on things that, for the most part, are clearly covered in the rules.

Of those 50, 25 will respond reasonably. 15 will engage in an ongoing series of questions that have already been answered in the rules, or should be common sense to anyone who's taken a few hours to get familiar with the place before jumping in.

10 will argue, complain, and threaten. Some of those will become obsessed with proving they're right and that you're a flaming idiot censor who's on the payroll of some evil conspiracy.

Yes. Really.

Seriously.

Those can go on for days, and consume hours each. By the end of the first week, we'd be involved in probably 20 of these little skirmishes per moderator.

Tell me you think that's a reasonable thing to expect, when the rules are clearly posted, and written in plain English.

You wouldn't do it if you were a moderator.

The options are pretty clear: Delete the posts and leave it at that, or get into running arguments that end up with members being perma-nuked for turning into obnoxious jerks because they can't disagree like civilized adults.

Plus chewing up an extra 40 to 60 hours per week, per moderator. The first week. It would only get worse after that.

But yeah. Sure. We'll get right on that for ya.

Bump it! Dang-it bump it!

Wow. You're just full of bad ideas today, aincha?

There are very few ways to get threads deleted that are faster than bumping them because they didn't get replies.

Paul

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Joe Mobley

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Once more into the bleach...

Well, if you have set up a belief system for yourself that this is the only way to handle this then, you're right, I wouldn't do it either.

I'm just not going with the only-one-option belief system for this.

Joe Mobley

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Paul Myers

11 years ago

Joe,

I'm just not going with the only-one-option belief system for this.

This isn't some theoretical conceptual construct, Joe. It's a decision based on a lot of experience.

I've moderated BBSs, a Fidonet echo, a couple of Usenet newsgroups, email discussion lists, web-based forums, and probably stuff I'm forgetting. First one was a BBS in 1987 or 1988. Over a decade's worth of moderating here.

I have a few clues on the topic.

Are there other ways that could work? Sure, with more resources - meaning people - to put into the process, we could notify members of why posts were deleted. All that would do is spread the arguments among more moderators. Wouldn't stop the crazies from getting obsessed and over the top, though.

Or we could go to a much stricter registration process. Lock out a whole lot of people and you can do things you can't with an open structure.

Yes, there are other options. There have been many suggested over the years. Some were tried and failed, some were so clearly unsuitable they were dismissed.

The current system is the least-harm approach to a place this large and open. If it forces confused people to think about what they're doing, I don't see that as a bad thing.

If you think people should be spoon-fed rules and lists, rather than learning to operate intelligently in their chosen communities, fine. I, for one, am no fan of breeding sheep.

Paul

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Joe Mobley

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

The current system is the least-harm approach to a place this large and open.

And that's a fair and possibly accurate statement. I have no problem with that.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If it forces confused people to think about what they're doing,

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. We are talking about Warriors who want and try to operate with the guidelines established here.

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

If you think people should be spoon-fed rules and lists, rather than learning to operate intelligently in their chosen communities, fine. I, for one, am no fan of breeding sheep.

An emotionally-charged linguistic placeholder which has nothing to do with the facts but is only tossed out by you to convey condescension towards me. You can do better, and I deserve better than that.

Let's get back to the facts: This has nothing to do with people that need to be spoon-fed rules. This is about what the OP mentioned,

I’m seriously trying to play by the rules. I’ve avoided making pointless threads and replies to up my post count. I’m trying to post in ways that are suggested by the new member FAQ, and so on.

Many a Warrior has found their thread or post deleted only to be left wondering if they did something to cross the WF rules. That is unfortunate. It may well be an additional cost of membership here, and that's fine. B^tching me out about about making note of it is not.

Joe Mobley

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PandoraH

11 years ago

Wow, I get totally busy for a couple of days, and the thread turns into a dissertation on moderation. What have I done! :p.

I was going to post last night, but my laptop started to do funny things, and by the time I was back on, I'd lost what I wanted to say.

In any case, carry on. At least my rant is getting some transaction. LOL. Oh, and ah..I am no sheep! I am a lion! Or..uh..something.

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Paul Myers

11 years ago

Joe,

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. We are talking about Warriors who want and try to operate with the guidelines established here.

And that is precisely who I was talking about. Spammers and abusers aren't a big concern in the education discussion. We just nuke them.

If people read the rules and watch for a bit before jumping in, they won't have many of these problems. If they join a new community and don't read the rules and learn the culture at least a little, they're going to scuff their knuckles and bang their elbows a bit. It's not fatal, and it's the second-best way to learn some things. For some people, it's the only way they'll learn.

In general, you deserve better. For purposes of this thread, you don't. That was a carefully measured response, and intended to convey precisely what I think of the notion of spoon-feeding adults who are too careless to read the posted instructions and make the effort to think.

It was also just a little short of the tone you used in your comments, which I think is both fair and instructive.

It wasn't condescension, though. I promise you, when I'm being condescending, there will be very little doubt of it.

And it has the added value of being completely true. I have no desire to train people to move like sheep. Which, in my opinion, is precisely the direction your suggested mode of operation would tend toward for many new members.

B^tching me out about about making note of it is not.

Actually, that's not what you were getting b^tched out for. Re-read what you originally posted: This is a huge problem here at the Warrior Forum. Some of the people that are trying, and do want to operate within the guidelines are left to figure out what happened in a given circumstance.

Additionally, this appears to be a non-problem as far as the moderators go. There is usually no response or a certain level of defensiveness about this topic.

The second sentence there is accurate. The rest is opinion, and inconsistent with the facts of the situation.

And if you want to take sidewise slaps at the moderators, you would be wise to confine them to me. I won't tolerate much of that when it's directed toward the other mods here.

Don't take that too personally. That's been my policy since July of 2002, when we first had other moderators.

Paul

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Jason Kanigan

11 years ago

@the OP: You are desperate for results, and so you want replies and action immediately.

This is the same expectation that nearly everyone who begins making prospecting calls for customers has: they expect that because they are putting in the effort, the other side should also put in the effort (and pick up the phone and talk--or in your case, respond to your post).

Doesn't work that way, though.

The world is going on at its own pace, doing its own thing, and what it chooses to do about your post is not up to you.

You can get frustrated with it, and beat yourself up about it, but frankly you are getting upset over something that is entirely out of your control. All you can control is your own behavior. You can put that post out there and try to make it as compelling as possible. Beyond that, nothing.

If your post doesn't get responded to, and it falls to page 3, try bumping it. Try changing the title (but not until some time has passed--don't change the title every 10 minutes). Go away from the computer.

Do you know when I make money? When I'm out for a walk. When I'm shopping with my wife. Heck, we made a sale last night when we were at a restaurant for dinner. I laughed, because half our check just got covered (I love IM). Sitting there staring at the forum shouting, "Why won't anyone respond, dammit?!" is not effective.

Also you need to get more going on. Don't just depend on one thread in WF for your leads. Go create a facebook page. Go to LinkedIn and find related groups to post in. Start developing some content. Make some videos. The empowerment technology has given to the little guy or gal these days is amazing. We could not do the things that are possible today 10 years ago. And it's so easy.

Take the pressure off yourself by developing more lead streams. Read this:

http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ake-money.html

If you want people to talk to you, you have to give them a good reason (like you did with this thread).

Another idea: if your whole plan gets held up in your mind because you mis-posted in the wrong forum, what does that say?

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PandoraH

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan

@the OP: You are desperate for results, and so you want replies and action immediately.

Take the pressure off yourself by developing more lead streams. Read this:

http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...ake-money.html

If you want people to talk to you, you have to give them a good reason (like you did with this thread).

Another idea: if your whole plan gets held up in your mind because you mis-posted in the wrong forum, what does that say?

Sheesh. Responding to this in a civilized manner is going to take some patience. Rather then spit out a lot of blather, I'm just going to say this.

I wasn't upset about my thread not being active, but was frustrated beyond belief by my inability to communicate via the PM system, because of my low thread count. That has been resolved. Thanks again, Paul.

Jason, your post had some very good points about business development, and the link to your 1,000 post was funny. I must have read that 3-4 times since you posted it in 2012. But in the main, you also seem to be assuming a lot about why I am here, what I am working on, and my expectations for WF.

I can't exactly blame you, as this thread IS a rant, and I wrote it very late at night. Generally speaking, I think that in the future I will avoid making such late night posts while feeling emotionally compromised. :p

Thanks

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A rant and a question about WF : Frustrated beyond belief, what am I doing wrong?

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