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You won't believe what they wanted me to do at the Doctors today

by KimW
76 replies
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I had to go to have a test done at the hospital today.

Thankfully I have been in decent health lately and had not had a hospital visit in months.

I was called up to the registration desk and after the usual stuff,verifying my insurance and personal information,they shove a device infront of me and wanted me to put my hand on it.

I said what is this?

The lady said it was a palm scanner,and if I di it today I would never have to show my ID or insurance cards again.

Told her thanks but no thanks.

She said it was ok,that is was optional.
For how long I thought to myself.

What do you think, are you ready to have your palm scanned?
  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Kim - That really brings up some questions, doesn't it?

    - who pays for the palm scanner system
    - who decides this "convenience" is worth spending medical dollars on
    - is this part of the cost added on for patients in that hospital?

    How would this palm scanner enhance the HEALTH of any patient?
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    • Profile picture of the author Brian John
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      How would this palm scanner enhance the HEALTH of any patient?
      off the top can think of a few possible benefits. in an emergency setting valuable time can be saved from not having to fill out forms and look for ins cards, as well as unconscious patients can be admitted much more quickly...in an er setting time is one of the most important factors. another reason is this offers a much better way of authenticating identification thereby helping prevent med identity and ins fraud.

      kay, i don't like big brother any more than the next guy but i do see some benefit here.
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      • Profile picture of the author FusionFinish
        In a perfect world those benefits sound great. What happens if you are in a hospital ER and getting lousy service so you go to another. Then they say well they were just scanned in over at that hospital. I know when I switched pharmacies my doctors were and Insurance was questioning why..... because the other pharmacy never had a script ready when promised. No way, I don't need some one holding my hand...... or scanning it!
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

      How would this palm scanner enhance the HEALTH of any patient?
      That's an interesting question!

      I suppose the answer, given that it's a substitute for showing your ID and insurance cards, must be the same as the answer to "How would showing your ID and insurance cards enhance the health of any patient?", whatever that is? Maybe "Very indirectly"?

      I can see that some people won't want to do it, certainly. But I can also see it saving time, effort and (in the long run) money, too? (And maybe even preventing some fraud/problems/administrative complications?).

      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      She said it was ok,that is was optional.
      For how long I thought to myself.
      Yes indeed ... that would have been my first thought, too. They have to "trial" things before they just "decide to use" them, don't they?

      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      What do you think, are you ready to have your palm scanned?
      I wouldn't mind at all, to be honest. But I see that some would.
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      • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post




        I wouldn't mind at all, to be honest. But I see that some would.
        I also dont mind.

        But the only difference is that i dont understand why some would.

        Then again, i might be simple minded.
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        • Profile picture of the author LarryC
          Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

          I also dont mind.

          But the only difference is that i dont understand why some would.

          Then again, i might be simple minded.
          The objections are related to privacy concerns, obviously. At this point, it wouldn't even bother me. I am mostly resigned to the fact that privacy as it was once defined is no longer possible (unless you live off the land in the wilderness perhaps).

          I'd be more worried about what the doctors would do to me after the palm scan
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

            The objections are related to privacy concerns, obviously.
            You say "obviously", Larry, but to some of us it's far from "obvious" why the pattern of subcutaneous veins in someone's palm raises more of a privacy issue than the current system of personal ID and insurance details. Indeed, to me it instinctively seems like that would actually be less of a potential privacy issue than the method for which it's a substitute?
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              On my flight home from Australia last year I had to spend the night in South Korea as a half way stop.

              On entrance to the airport we all had to have our fingerprints scanned and have our photo taken as well as the passport scanned.

              I was concerned we'd landed in North Korea for a second.

              Kim, I'm pleased you're doing well. I'm not quite sure where I stand on this one yet though.
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              • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                Does it read your palm and give a prediction as well???

                Shane
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                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by tagiscom View Post

                  Does it read your palm and give a prediction as well???

                  Shane
                  No lie - I'll let ya scan my palm if you can tell me about my life from it -- other than "you fit our reject profile, so you won't be working again any time soon".
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                On my flight home from Australia last year I had to spend the night in South Korea as a half way stop.

                On entrance to the airport we all had to have our fingerprints scanned and have our photo taken as well as the passport scanned.

                I was concerned we'd landed in North Korea for a second.

                Kim, I'm pleased you're doing well. I'm not quite sure where I stand on this one yet though.
                Well, Passports have been ANOTHER concern. They USED to simply have SOME personal info, a picture, a record of where you were, and a number that, ***IF*** there were a problem, more info could be accessed. NOW, who knows WHAT info they have, and access is freeer and has fewer limitations. HECK, tey used to have a limit of like when you got THAT passport, or 10 years, whichever is less, and now they could maybe tell what your great grandparents had as their first meal.

                What USED to seem SO innocent can now be so sinister. HECK, I watched "who do yo think you are....Chelsea Handler" Ironically, it is the first I saw. ****SHE**** implied several times that she believed, and she tried to do so, that she could find out what her father was like by researching ONLY ONE document. It was identification as a brown shirt. That led to a few other things, etc.... The final decision? Well, he didn't sign that document, or put a picture in it, so maybe he didn't value it. So the jury is still out. Still, he WAS a brown shirt, and in the nazi party. He WAS promoted THREE times! SO MANY would say that he was a guilty murderer. Who cares if he knowingly married a jewish woman, and raised the kids jewish.

                And we all hear of profiling, ID theft, and cases that have almost NO proof. Such free giving of information will INCREASE that. Don't believe me? FINE! If you are american, release your SSN, birthdate, name, and last address, and see how long you go without having a problem.

                MANY people don't give the motor licensing office their fingerprints because of the same worry.

                As for the palm print? Who's to say they DON'T get your fingerprints, etc...?

                At this rate, within 20 years, and some say it could happen even THIS year, the US, and possibly many other countries, could get rid of ALL tangible currency, switch over to 100% digital, and have ALL personal info freely available, etc..... IMAGINE! They could see you ordered a pressure cooker and the anarchist cookbook, cancel the order, and make you a pauper INSTANTLY! Perhaps NO person would be needed!

                HEY, in the US, they do the same sort of thing with credit! There is a system that AUTOMATICALLY profiles you based on some metrics. MANY of those metrics are even incomplete! The name? FICO! If you suddenly change your payment pattern, spend too much on a particular card, get too many people looking at the FICO, etc... your fico score goes down. As it does, rates go up, credit lines drop, etc.... And it is ALL automatic! If we switch to a life profile system, it can be factored into the fico, and INSTANTLY organizations ALL OVER THE US would react without even knowing why!

                You simply add a few more metrics! HECK, add ONE! The US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S view of you!

                Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author LarryC
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              You say "obviously", Larry, but to some of us it's far from "obvious" why the pattern of subcutaneous veins in someone's palm raises more of a privacy issue than the current system of personal ID and insurance details. Indeed, to me it instinctively seems like that would actually be less of a potential privacy issue than the method for which it's a substitute?
              I do think it's obvious that these objections are based on privacy concerns. I didn't say that I agreed. In fact I went on to say that it wouldn't bother me too much. I personally hate paperwork so much that I'd probably prefer to have my palm scanned if it would mean fewer forms and ID cards to deal with.

              However, I still think it's obvious that many people will have an automatic reaction to this type of technology because they are worried about privacy. I understand this point of view, I just think it's too late to worry about it.
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              • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

                I do think it's obvious that these objections are based on privacy concerns. I didn't say that I agreed. In fact I went on to say that it wouldn't bother me too much. I personally hate paperwork so much that I'd probably prefer to have my palm scanned if it would mean fewer forms and ID cards to deal with.

                However, I still think it's obvious that many people will have an automatic reaction to this type of technology because they are worried about privacy. I understand this point of view, I just think it's too late to worry about it.
                OK! It is OK if everyone knows your business, steals your money, and throws you in jail! WE GET IT! Others DON'T feel that way!

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  OK! It is OK if everyone knows your business, steals your money, and throws you in jail! WE GET IT! Others DON'T feel that way!

                  Steve
                  Teve...does your last name happen to be "Strawman" by chance?

                  And, can you explain why using a palm scan instead of a driver's license is a bigger security risk? Isn't the same info stored in the same database(s), regardless of the patient ID method used?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post


                    And, can you explain why using a palm scan instead of a driver's license is a bigger security risk? Isn't the same info stored in the same database(s), regardless of the patient ID method used?
                    Exactly, maybe im not getting it. But i was thinking the palm scan or finger print is just a "method" of verifying your details and bring them up from an already stored info in the database.

                    I dont see how changing the method of bringing up the info affects the security of the database. Only that it makes it easier and faster and more convenient for me to get through the triage.
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                    Teve...does your last name happen to be "Strawman" by chance?

                    And, can you explain why using a palm scan instead of a driver's license is a bigger security risk? Isn't the same info stored in the same database(s), regardless of the patient ID method used?
                    We could turn that around and say if it is all the same, why not just keep what we have? YOU are saying to spend tens of thousands, or even HUNDREDS of thousands, per area to get what we already have?

                    THEY HAVE ENOUGH!

                    As for straw man, I guess people could have made that same argument earlier, like in the early 1980s when I said the arabs would likely attack the US, etc... Yeah, it is interesting how some things are so obvious and still MISSED!

                    HECK, did you see my post about how I finally went through a scanner, because I was in a hurry, and the machine said I had stuff in my pockets, when I didn't, and said I had pockets in places where I didn't? I STILL got searched! Seriously, it doesn't make things safer or reduce fraud.

                    Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author LarryC
                  Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                  OK! It is OK if everyone knows your business, steals your money, and throws you in jail! WE GET IT! Others DON'T feel that way!

                  Steve
                  Not sure where I said that -are you responding to me or the voices in your head?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    So for me, i really cannot careless (if its just privacy alone) if the government is tracking all this, just as long as its for the greater good. (like keeping 1 step ahead of terrorist and keeping me safe)
                    But i would agree it wouldnt be good if its used against you, like the example of health care act where corporations can use them etc.
                    That's the great fallacy in public thinking. It's the "if" and "what if" factor - if it makes us safer....if it's for the greater good....

                    Much of the wasteful spending is based on encouraging that kind of public attitude. I don't have anything to hide and I gave up on privacy a long time ago.

                    But I do care about debt and about taxation and about waste. "If" is not good enough for me to approve a new program - I want to know what it does, who is paying for it, and who is pushing for it. I want to know if this is needed - or if someone's brother-in-law owns the company producing the scanners.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      But I do care about debt and about taxation and about waste. "If" is not good enough for me to approve a new program - I want to know what it does, who is paying for it, and who is pushing for it. I want to know if this is needed - or if someone's brother-in-law owns the company producing the scanners.
                      This i can agree with you.
                      I would agree with this argument.

                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      That's the great fallacy in public thinking. It's the "if" and "what if" factor - if it makes us safer....if it's for the greater good....
                      My initial reply in this thread is more towards privacy issues.

                      Thats why when you quote me pls quote in context.
                      Out of context can really con people.

                      I was talking about all the IFs but its comparing security issues with privacy issue.
                      So its a matter of a greater good or a greater bad.
                      That was in reply to this comment. =)
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      Our phone calls and internet activity recorded and stored - all of our credit and financial information is tracked - our cars and phones are pre-equipped with GPS (for our own protection, of course).


                      So pls dont take my words out of context
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                    • Profile picture of the author Brian John
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      That's the great fallacy in public thinking. It's the "if" and "what if" factor - if it makes us safer....if it's for the greater good....
                      Much of the wasteful spending is based on encouraging that kind of public attitude. I don't have anything to hide and I gave up on privacy a long time ago.
                      But I do care about debt and about taxation and about waste. "If" is not good enough for me to approve a new program - I want to know what it does, who is paying for it, and who is pushing for it. I want to know if this is needed - or if someone's brother-in-law owns the company producing the scanners.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
                        Originally Posted by Brian John View Post

                        Do you have rights to that image?
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                        • Profile picture of the author tagiscom
                          Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                          No lie - I'll let ya scan my palm if you can tell me about my life from it -- other than "you fit our reject profile, so you won't be working again any time soon".
                          Surely not!

                          But l think you know what they would predict!


                          This device says, that you will develop a serious illness, and have to mortgage your house, etc, to pay the blood sicking parasite Pharm co, to cure it.

                          Hypothetically of course!


                          Fascinating thing is in AU some doctors have started questioning the exorbitant costs associated with some drugs, so some sense is starting to creep in!


                          But if l gave you a reading it would go something like, you have an outgoing personality, and you should clean up some of the bigger rocks around your house, as they could be a tripping hazard! Especially the large green one, near the back door!

                          Shane

                          PS let me know if l am accurate! LOL! :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    Another question, who will have access to this info down the road? Will palm scans become a database similar to fingerprints where law enforcement and other agencies have access to this info?
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

      Another question, who will have access to this info down the road? Will palm scans become a database similar to fingerprints where law enforcement and other agencies have access to this info?
      There is a **********FEDERAL LAW********** that has been in place for quite a while in the US dictating WHO needs to know, and making it practically ILLEGAL for others to even ASK!

      Part of that was codified in 1996! Health Information Privacy

      The Office for Civil Rights enforces the HIPAA Privacy Rule, which protects the privacy of individually identifiable health information; the HIPAA Security Rule, which sets national standards for the security of electronic protected health information; the HIPAA Breach Notification Rule, which requires covered entities and business associates to provide notification following a breach of unsecured protected health information; and the confidentiality provisions of the Patient Safety Rule, which protect identifiable information being used to analyze patient safety events and improve patient safety.
      EVERYONE is handling this in a DUMB manner, and they don't seem to care about it. ALSO, to SUPPOSEDLY support a STUPID law recently passed(though it, in part, says NO such ID will be needed), the IRS apparently will SOON, if not already, have access to ALL that info! HECK, they are going to be paying people OFF THE STREET to harass people to get it, feigning care for those they harass!

      ALSO, everyone REALIZE! Once the patterns become public, someone can use the to fabricate or falsify evidence!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author USA
    I wonder when they are going to try and pull that sh#% at the VA?...
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    It's optional now. My guess is it won't be for long.

    You know, Kim, it's really a weird time for people our age. We have one foot in the analog world and the other in the fast paced digital world. The advantages of having virtually every database imaginable so close at hand are many. But the opportunities for certain people to misuse the info are many as well.

    I'd hope this and similar privacy oriented stuff will stay optional but I seriously doubt it will. I saw something on Facebook yesterday about mysterious charges showing up on people's phone bills. Word is it's a wiretapping charge that goes by the name of, lawful interception recovery fee.

    Who knows, it might be a hoax but nothing would surprise me at this point.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    When I opened this thread I was expecting something very serious. It turns out they just wanted to take your finger prints.

    I don't see why so many are scared of this. Something similar probably happened a long time ago when everyone was issued an ID card. There were perhaps some disadvantages to it, especially in the early days when it was easier to forge them, but all in all, they ended up being useful.

    Of course, there probably will be people who say "I'm not comfortable with the government having my finger prints in their database." My reply is: we're already taped to no end, as Snowden kindly revealed, so don't worry, you're not going to escape by not "turning in" your finger prints.

    As for who's paying to cover the costs of such devices, I thought we've already figured out that ultimately the average Joe pays for them, in one way or another and we can't do much about it.

    But this isn't my concern. My concern is "why is medical treatment, which is a need, not a commodity, so expensive, and why is it more of a business than a service for those in need?"

    I don't want to generalize because I have no statistics, but my impression is that many doctors literally set up shops when they open a clinic.

    In my mind, health care should be as accessible as possible. But why bother trying to market TVs, cellphones, cars, etc. to people who might want to buy them, when there's a huge market of people who need medical help, and therefore are immune to price?
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    It seems a bit intimidating, but it's basically a lock for your information. It's like a login that can only be unlocked with your palm-print. However, I'm willing to bet that a palm print is not that hard to replicate with a bit of silicone. In fact I'm not sure how hi-def the new 3d printers are, but I could see 3d scans of palm-prints being passed around on places like piratebay.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    A friend bought me a very early Christmas gift this year. It's a watch BUT it has a medical emblem in the face and also a USB stick to store all medical records. This way I can carry around medical information and, if I am carted off to hospital, they have to simply plug it in and they can see all about my medical history without having to fill in a ton of extra paperwork.
    I actually hate wearing a watch but now I am going to do it for that reason alone.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by laurencewins View Post

      A friend bought me a very early Christmas gift this year. It's a watch BUT it has a medical emblem in the face and also a USB stick to store all medical records. This way I can carry around medical information and, if I am carted off to hospital, they have to simply plug it in and they can see all about my medical history without having to fill in a ton of extra paperwork.
      I actually hate wearing a watch but now I am going to do it for that reason alone.
      At least THAT is voluntary, and you have control over it!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrician
    Glad to hear you are healthy now Kim.

    Seriously, even though I am a bit 'paranoid' and 'hyper-vigilant', I just don't see what the problem is with the palm scan. I would be happy not to have to pull out all the bureaucratic nonsense when I am in pain or scared because I am sick enough to be @ the hospital. It might be different if they didn't already know everything about everybody any way.

    STAY HEALTHY KIM (et al)
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  • Profile picture of the author Igor Fridrihs
    The question is not a palm scanning, but who, when and for which purpose use this information.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      It's not my palm I'm protecting and I do see how this MIGHT have good purposes.....but I think it's wishful thinking.

      We've had fingerprints for how long? Do you see anyone scanning an accident victim fingerprint to find out quickly who he is? Why would a palm be any different?

      My objection is the cost of such a project - why not use fingerprints instead of a whole new technology built to fit palm prints? I like the watch idea Laurence mentioned above. Most people I've known with serious health issues wear a tag or bracelet or some sort of alert in case of accident or health emergency.

      It could be an ID boon - but to work would require you be in the database, the database info be current, the emergency techs having a reader and able to link to the home base....that's the reality of what seems like a simple system.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardraysnight
    nothing to worry about

    they just wanted to read your palm to see if you were coming into money, to pay the bill..
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  • Profile picture of the author BizQ
    This thread is sad.

    Good luck in the soup line.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Kay hit it on the head. Database. What happens when those databases are owned by the IRS (as they will be when the "affordable (lol sure) healthcare act" gets going - and corporations have access to your medical to decide if they want to take the risk on your particular health problem or possible future problems on the basis of your medical history. We are beyond assurance of our privacy in any area of our lives now.

    What disturbs me is the healthcare bill includes a lot of info for class 3 devices........and that means microchips. I think this scanner is just numbing people out to being scanned before they pull out the big guns. It's important to resist this one. At all costs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      So we all get on a few huge databases - healthcare and ID - with all of our personal info on a "secure" database. Our phone calls and internet activity recorded and stored - all of our credit and financial information is tracked - our cars and phones are pre-equipped with GPS (for our own protection, of course).

      Before long, it won't take a war or terrorism to bring the country down - just some good hackers.

      And Sal and Ricky and Gracie and I will be sitting in a rock cave drinking a case of wine saying "we said this was gonna happen".
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      • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
        Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

        The objections are related to privacy concerns, obviously.
        Oh, okay, didnt think of that.
        I told you i was simple minded.

        Really, if i went to the doctors and they asked me to do a palm scan or finger print scan, i would oblige and say "wow so high tech now?"
        Thats it. lol

        I wouldnt go that far to think about all this you guys have mentioned.
        Which i must say does make sense too.


        Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

        At this point, it wouldn't even bother me. I am mostly resigned to the fact that privacy as it was once defined is no longer possible (unless you live off the land in the wilderness perhaps).
        Haha ya, thats a nice way of thinking.
        On a personal basis, basic privacy is still a right.
        Meaning if you go spying on your neighbour he can sue you.

        But on a government level, because of all this terrorist stuff going on, to a certain level the government "need" the option to use the power to invade into your privacy if you are a person of interest.



        Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

        I'd be more worried about what the doctors would do to me after the palm scan
        hmmm, the palm scan is just to bring up all the data to skip the paper work right?

        The doctor has no access to it from what i know, he only have access to your medical history which has all the while been known.
        Doctors need to know your history in case there is any link to the currrent condition.

        But your details like where you live, how much insurance you have, i dont think he knows, its for the admin recept to handle, and i doubt he has the time to go tru it.

        AND even if he wanted to, you would have with or without the palm scan.

        The palm scan is just to make it faster and convenient for the whole process of triage.

        But again, like someone said, finger print would suffice.
        Maybe people graft finger prints to fake some records to claim some insurance or something, so palm would be harder? hahaha

        Thats my opinion though.
        Again im a simple minded guy.

        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Kay hit it on the head. Database. What happens when those databases are owned by the IRS (as they will be when the "affordable (lol sure) healthcare act" gets going - and corporations have access to your medical to decide if they want to take the risk on your particular health problem or possible future problems on the basis of your medical history. We are beyond assurance of our privacy in any area of our lives now.
        Ah okay, that i didnt think about it.
        Yes i wouldnt want that either if it comes to that point.
        This i would agree.

        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        So we all get on a few huge databases - healthcare and ID - with all of our personal info on a "secure" database. Our phone calls and internet activity recorded and stored - all of our credit and financial information is tracked - our cars and phones are pre-equipped with GPS (for our own protection, of course).

        Before long, it won't take a war or terrorism to bring the country down - just some good hackers.

        And Sal and Ricky and Gracie and I will be sitting in a rock cave drinking a case of wine saying "we said this was gonna happen".
        Well, i know how people have very strong opinions about this.

        I just want to share my simple minded thoughts.

        I am "nobody".
        I live a simple life.
        I am not a public figure or a international persona of interest.
        Or a threat to the nation.

        So for me, i really cannot careless (if its just privacy alone) if the government is tracking all this, just as long as its for the greater good. (like keeping 1 step ahead of terrorist and keeping me safe)
        But i would agree it wouldnt be good if its used against you, like the example of health care act where corporations can use them etc.


        So definitely there is a good side (benefit) to it and there is a bad side (set back) to this.
        As with everything on earth. THere is nothing perfect. You just have to outweigh the pros and cons.


        But im sure America understands this. (ok i know im gonna touch a very sensitive topic which is gun laws and i know america has long history on gun rights, its the countries interest.)
        But take for example the Gun law.

        TnT explosive can be used to help demolish a building in construction line.
        This saves time just like palm scan.
        The invention of gun and gun powder, with it, you can hunt more efficiently.
        And some go to the range as a sport or past-time.

        But in the wrong hands, or used wrongly, can wage war and take many lifes.

        But i still see in today's world we are using explosives, and US gun rights is still so strong. =)

        Thats my take though. (you may disagree )

        Have a great day!
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      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        So we all get on a few huge databases - healthcare and ID - with all of our personal info on a "secure" database. Our phone calls and internet activity recorded and stored - all of our credit and financial information is tracked - our cars and phones are pre-equipped with GPS (for our own protection, of course).

        Before long, it won't take a war or terrorism to bring the country down - just some good hackers.

        And Sal and Ricky and Gracie and I will be sitting in a rock cave drinking a case of wine saying "we said this was gonna happen".
        Maybe when they get all that from me they'll fell sorry for me and leave me alone

        As for the cave, I'll be there with Orlando.
        I've got some wilderness and survival skills that would be handy Not to mention I've got some mad cooking and gardening skills
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I have worked for no less than 5 government offices!(federal, and several states) I have worked for firms where employees had top secret clearance. I worked for some places with HIPAA regulations, and have been at a number of hospitals. "secure database" is practically a MYTH! And FORGET about employees! YIKES!

    At hospitals, they should try the old method that was even mentioned in the BIBLE. They can give each person a number when they come in. OR, hey! HERE is a NOVEL idea! They can ask the persons NAME! I mean WHAT are the chances of two people with the SAME full name being in the SAME place waiting at the SAME hospital? The chances of them having the same birth date are actually HIGHER! If it were some conspiracy, say for a drug test, they could STILL tell the other person their birthdate!

    At the average hospital, you are likely to have to give your birthdate 5 times to about as many people!

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    At least they didn't want you to scan your azz on a copy machine & fax it back to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    Biometrics scare me. What really worries me is Facebook. Facebook has the largest facial recognition database in the world.
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  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW One addition to my little post! There IS an organization that controls the value of 8 major currencies. It will soon be about 20, and may go to EVERY currency. ALSO, the major currencies are now FIAT currencies. Even the SWISS FRANC is now! So what happens in the US could ALSO happen, even in the same SECOND, in france, germany, Japan, Russia, italy, the UK, the euro, etc.... REMEMBER, the infrastructure and agreements are ALREADY in place! 40 years ago, this would have been an impossible feat of SCIFI! TODAY, it is out and out LIKELY! HECK, I RARELY use tangible money, RARELY go to the bank, and NEVER deposit a paycheck! You CAN'T even pay for the average hotel or rental car with cash or even a CHECK!

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author FusionFinish
      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

      BTW One addition to my little post! There IS an organization that controls the value of 8 major currencies. It will soon be about 20, and may go to EVERY currency. ALSO, the major currencies are now FIAT currencies. Even the SWISS FRANC is now! So what happens in the US could ALSO happen, even in the same SECOND, in france, germany, Japan, Russia, italy, the UK, the euro, etc.... REMEMBER, the infrastructure and agreements are ALREADY in place! 40 years ago, this would have been an impossible feat of SCIFI! TODAY, it is out and out LIKELY! HECK, I RARELY use tangible money, RARELY go to the bank, and NEVER deposit a paycheck! You CAN'T even pay for the average hotel or rental car with cash or even a CHECK!

      Steve
      You are 110% right. People wont take off the blinders!
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  • Profile picture of the author danny98
    plam scanning? kidding me?
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by danny98 View Post

      plam scanning? kidding me?
      No kidding, although i have nv seen one. But its not that unbelievable.

      Whatever you see in the Mission impossible movie or the gadgets used in james bond movies will all be real in a few years time.

      Just re-watch all the classic 007 movies and u can see some inventions a norm now.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Leatherman
    I'm still Gobsmacked (and I'm not from the U.K.) by the technology per sei. But my privacy is extremely important to me. Or at least the thought of it.

    In the 1950's and 1960's all we worried about was if the commies were going to drop a bomb on us. No worries about our government spying on us or using the information for evil purposes.

    However I do think the scanning of your bare butt would suffice for any government database.


    Ken


    Go Ahead And Scan My Butt
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by Ken Leatherman View Post


      However I do think the scanning of your bare butt would suffice for any government database.


      Ken


      Go Ahead And Scan My Butt
      Be careful what you wish for.

      You wont want to be dropping your pants at recep or triage for a butt scan just to process your details and check you in the queue.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sue McDonald
    Yes we do live in a technological age but you have to wonder where your information would be stored and could it be abused. It would be great if you could be 100% certain it was safe and your personal information was only for them. Lately I have been contacted by people I know that I have never signed up to or have any knowledge of them but suddenly they have my contact details - the only way they could get it is if someone has shared or sold it to them.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Sue McDonald View Post

      Yes we do live in a technological age but you have to wonder where your information would be stored and could it be abused. It would be great if you could be 100% certain it was safe and your personal information was only for them. Lately I have been contacted by people I know that I have never signed up to or have any knowledge of them but suddenly they have my contact details - the only way they could get it is if someone has shared or sold it to them.
      I once started gettig info from a lot of jerks I NEVER signed up with. They ALL mad the SAME mistake in my name. I had *******NEVER******* seen ANYONE else make that mistake, and most would be abbreviating my actual middle name(and NOT make the mistake), or SKIP IT! I RARELY use it. YEP folks, I NEVER saw ANYONE make it before the DMV did!

      The state MOTOR VEHICLE DEPARTMENT made the mistake, and SUDDENLY, several others did ALSO! COINCIDENCE? I DOUBT IT! as I recall, there was something ELSE that was odd ALSO. OBVIOUSLY somebody that couldn't read anglo names, misread the first letter or made a VERY odd mistake when typing it. There is NO relation to the two keys, but the letters look somewhat similar.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
    DNA will be next and I'm not liking that at all but I don't see much difference in a palm scan vs finger prints. Many private high security data centers use them for access.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by GrowTutor View Post

      DNA will be next and I'm not liking that at all but I don't see much difference in a palm scan vs finger prints. Many private high security data centers use them for access.
      Actually, that likely isn't true! Fingerprnts, for example, for security, are often reduced to like 7-10 numbers indicating a pattern. It is VERY unique, but STILL can't reconstruct the fingerprint. STILL, CHOICE!

      As for DNA? If I recall correctly, they are now doing that in prisons!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Actually, that likely isn't true! Fingerprnts, for example, for security, are often reduced to like 7-10 numbers indicating a pattern. It is VERY unique, but STILL can't reconstruct the fingerprint. STILL, CHOICE!

        As for DNA? If I recall correctly, they are now doing that in prisons!

        Steve
        The palm scan the OP was talking about was for ID security at a doctors office and it was optional just like fingerprints are often used for ID security in different businesses. Fingerprints can be faked and readers tricked, they even did it on myth busters.

        DNA for prisoners (and for some arrested now) is not optional and it's not for a private business to use as ID...yet.

        Neither fingerprints nor palm scans have the other uses/information that DNA can reveal and DNA is far more intrusive because of that. Unless protections are put in place we'll likely end up with DNA based biometrics in the future.

        Facts are facts...
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by GrowTutor View Post

          The palm scan the OP was talking about was for ID security at a doctors office and it was optional just like fingerprints are often used for ID security in different businesses. Fingerprints can be faked and readers tricked, they even did it on myth busters.

          DNA for prisoners (and for some arrested now) is not optional and it's not for a private business to use as ID...yet.

          Neither fingerprints nor palm scans have the other uses/information that DNA can reveal and DNA is far more intrusive because of that. Unless protections are put in place we'll likely end up with DNA based biometrics in the future.

          Facts are facts...
          I wasn't disputing any of that. HECK! Ever see gattaca? I guarantee you such devices, and that thinking in some places will become reality. It could take 20 years, or 3, but given the way we are headed....

          In a nutshell, the government selects the major parameters for the essence of the people. They are, at various points, genetically tested for those DNA markers. If they don't have them, they are treated as slaves. About the only thing they are good for is janitors! They probably also have profiles to determine the job you should have.

          The movie shows two brothers. One born the normal way, that is known as an "INVALID"(DOESN'T HAVE THE MARKERS), looses his father's name, because the doctor told him he will likely die young with a heart problem, works as a janitor, but wants to be an astronaut. He manages to trick everyone, and excels, and gets his wish, no thanks to his BROTHER! His BROTHER is a "VALID", hates his guts because he once won a race against him, and he got the father's name. Oh yeah, his brother is a police officer, and wants to put the invalid in jail for murder!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Thats why when you quote me pls quote in context.
            I quote the part I want to quote - and I think it was in context. The "context" was "about the greater good".

            It's not an argument that flies well in the US - where individual freedom is the focus rather than "greater good".
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          • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            I wasn't disputing any of that. HECK! Ever see gattaca? I guarantee you such devices, and that thinking in some places will become reality. It could take 2 years, or 3, but given the way we are headed....
            Then how is what I said before unlikely to be true?

            DNA for ID (unless something is done to stop it) is a distinct future possibility.
            There's not a big difference between fingerprinting and palm scans (or retina scans for that matter) for ID. Neither are invasive, neither have the same info/uses as DNA would.
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by GrowTutor View Post

              Then how is what I said before unlikely to be true?

              DNA for ID (unless something is done to stop it) is a distinct future possibility.
              There's not a big difference between fingerprinting and palm scans (or retina scans for that matter) for ID. Neither are invasive, neither have the same info/uses as DNA would.
              OK, let's say you are right!...100% right!... WHY change the law, and pay WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH, and change ALL those rules when you see NO difference, etc...\

              BTW I NEVER claimed the federal government was NICE, INTELLIGENT, or even had our best interests at heart. In fact, I have said the OPPOSITE!

              Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                OK, let's say you are right!...100% right!... WHY change the law, and pay WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH, and change ALL those rules when you see NO difference, etc...

                BTW I NEVER claimed the federal government was NICE, INTELLIGENT, or even had our best interests at heart. In fact, I have said the OPPOSITE!

                Steve
                Why change *what* law?

                The only law I ever talked about was that we might need a law regarding limiting the use of DNA (not fingerprint/palm scanners) for privacy protection reasons.

                I think you're confused...
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                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                  Originally Posted by GrowTutor View Post

                  Why change *what* law?

                  The only law I ever talked about was that we might need a law regarding limiting the use of DNA (not fingerprint/palm scanners) for privacy protection reasons.

                  I think you're confused...
                  NOPE! A lot of OTHERS are confused! The government basically is full of people that want to be part of an entity that controls ALL!!!!! In order to maintain that control, they need to know AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE about all that play a part. Several thousand years ago, this might have sounded LUDICROUS! I agree! It IS! *****BUT*****, and this is a BIG but, there are FEW centuries where you can't find examples of it. I could name MANY examples, FROM MEMORY, for the 18th, 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries. AND, as technology progresses, they get FAR more control!

                  I could start rattling off examples, but if you can't think of a few, well.... I WON'T say it! Forum rules, you know....

                  Of course, doing this to EVERYONE is near impossible without surveillance of SOME sort. That is not 100% possible now, and only a decade ago WAS impossible, so they have to have local guys assist in the setup. HAT is done by manipulating the economy, payments, information, and LAWS! Again, I could give detailed examples, but...

                  You would THINK they would be happy to be in a paradise and lauded by EVERYONE, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! You would THINK that they would be AFRAID of being left outside and subject to their OWN rules, but NOOOOO! ********THEY WANT MORE*********! CONGRESS recently fought, only a couple weeks ago, to get ANOTHER waiver to ANOTHEr recent law because they claimed THEY couldn't afford it! EVENTUALLY, it will only affect small companies and individuals! IRONICALLY, the VERY same it supposedly helped, and those that could LEAST afford it!

                  Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author HeySal
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        Actually, that likely isn't true! Fingerprnts, for example, for security, are often reduced to like 7-10 numbers indicating a pattern. It is VERY unique, but STILL can't reconstruct the fingerprint. STILL, CHOICE!

        As for DNA? If I recall correctly, they are now doing that in prisons!

        Steve
        They're also getting caught here and again getting it from newborns in the hospitals.
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    We have many laws in place about our privavcy rights. It is called The Constitution.
    Too bad the current government (I did not say administration) fails to follow it.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      We have many laws in place about our privavcy rights. It is called The Constitution.
      Too bad the current government ( I did not say administration) fails to follow it.
      YEAH, they think an OATH is only something you SAY! SAYING an oath is NOT the point! The point is ADHERING to a promise as if your LIFE depended on it! The speaking is an AFFIRMATION that you will follow it.

      SERIOUSLY? They know the oath is REQUIRED and think it is somehow MAGIC? I would love to sign a check to the IRS on a bad account and, when they arrest me for giving them a bad check, etc... I just say "You wanted me to send you a signed check, and that is EXACTLY what I did!"! AGAIN, signing the check is NOT the point! It is the promise that you will PAY THE DEBT!

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
        Originally Posted by KimW View Post

        We have many laws in place about our privavcy rights. It is called The Constitution.
        Too bad the current government ( I did not say administration) fails to follow it.
        You wouldn't welcome a law that strengthens and clarifies our privacy rights when it comes to the use of DNA?


        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        NOPE! A lot of OTHERS are confused! The government basically is full of people that want to be part of an entity that controls ALL!!!!! In order to maintain that control, they need to know AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE about all that play a part. Several thousand years ago, this might have sounded LUDICROUS! I agree! It IS! *****BUT*****, and this is a BIG but, there are FEW centuries where you can't find examples of it. I could name MANY examples, FROM MEMORY, for the 18th, 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries. AND, as technology progresses, they get FAR more control!

        I could start rattling off examples, but if you can't think of a few, well.... I WON'T say it! Forum rules, you know....

        Of course, doing this to EVERYONE is near impossible without surveillance of SOME sort. That is not 100% possible now, and only a decade ago WAS impossible, so they have to have local guys assist in the setup. HAT is done by manipulating the economy, payments, information, and LAWS! Again, I could give detailed examples, but...

        You would THINK they would be happy to be in a paradise and lauded by EVERYONE, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! You would THINK that they would be AFRAID of being left outside and subject to their OWN rules, but NOOOOO! ********THEY WANT MORE*********! CONGRESS recently fought, only a couple weeks ago, to get ANOTHER waiver to ANOTHEr recent law because they claimed THEY couldn't afford it! EVENTUALLY, it will only affect small companies and individuals! IRONICALLY, the VERY same it supposedly helped, and those that could LEAST afford it!

        Steve
        Calm down...

        Somebody here visits alex jones...and it's not me.

        None of that rant had anything to do with my comments on bio-metric fingerprints/palm scans nor the dangers of bio-metric DNA scanners in the future.

        Now, do you think we deserve protections from the abuse of DNA data or not?

        Our conversation began with me making a post and you replied "Actually, that likely isn't true!" but you haven't explained once why what I said isn't true. Should I stop trying?
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        • Profile picture of the author KimW
          Originally Posted by GrowTutor View Post

          You wouldn't welcome a law that strengthens and clarifies our privacy rights when it comes to the use of DNA?



          Calm down...

          Somebody here visits alex jones...and it's not me,

          None of that rant had anything to do with my comments on bio-metric fingerprints/palm scans nor the dangers of bio-metric DNA scanners in the future.

          Now, do you think we deserve protections from the abuse of DNA data or not?

          Our conversation began with me making a post and you replied "Actually, that likely isn't true!" but you haven't explained once why what I said isn't true. Should I stop trying?

          I tried to refrain but can't.
          I have to ask how you got that out of my post? :rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
            Originally Posted by KimW View Post

            I tried to refrain but can't.
            I have to ask how you got that out of my post? :rolleyes:
            EDIT:
            Sorry, you also quoted my reply to seasoned and I didn't notice who actually wrote it...

            Seasoned and I have been talking about DNA abuse (or I have and he's been ranting) and when you replied after my post it appeared that you think the Constitution has enough privacy protection even when it comes to DNA data abuse.

            Do you think a law that strengthens privacy rights against the abuse of DNA data is a good idea or not?
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by GrowTutor View Post

          You wouldn't welcome a law that strengthens and clarifies our privacy rights when it comes to the use of DNA?



          Calm down...

          Somebody here visits alex jones...and it's not me.

          None of that rant had anything to do with my comments on bio-metric fingerprints/palm scans nor the dangers of bio-metric DNA scanners in the future.

          Now, do you think we deserve protections from the abuse of DNA data or not?

          Our conversation began with me making a post and you replied "Actually, that likely isn't true!" but you haven't explained once why what I said isn't true. Should I stop trying?
          I will go back to try to find the context there and maybe answer if it wouldn't violate the rules. BTW, I don't watch alex jones!

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
            Originally Posted by reputablemarketing View Post

            They try and add on 101 useless things to do to your body... like HERE - let's cut you open ... so that way we can SEE what is wrong with you?!?!
            *Sometimes* exploratory surgery is actually good. My mother's pancreatic cancer was found that way when other tests found nothing and that extended her life a bit.

            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            I will go back to try to find the context there and maybe answer if it wouldn't violate the rules. BTW, I don't watch alex jones!
            I'd appreciate that...

            OMG he has a show too? I thought it was just a website...
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        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by GrowTutor View Post

          You wouldn't welcome a law that strengthens and clarifies our privacy rights when it comes to the use of DNA?



          Calm down...

          Somebody here visits alex jones...and it's not me.

          None of that rant had anything to do with my comments on bio-metric fingerprints/palm scans nor the dangers of bio-metric DNA scanners in the future.

          Now, do you think we deserve protections from the abuse of DNA data or not?

          Our conversation began with me making a post and you replied "Actually, that likely isn't true!" but you haven't explained once why what I said isn't true. Should I stop trying?
          You implied a disagreement that wasn't as you implied, and here asked a question already answered!!!!!!!

          Actually, that likely isn't true! Fingerprnts, for example, for security, are often reduced to like 7-10 numbers indicating a pattern. It is VERY unique, but STILL can't reconstruct the fingerprint. STILL, CHOICE!
          SO.... What I meant was that a pattern for a fingerprint ID scanner was NOT a fingerprint, and thus DIFFERENT! In any event, there is a CHOICE!

          The people that want all this info have NO idea how to use it! They even dumb down the populous! GOOD LUCK EVER using it in a reasonable manner! And there is a HISTORY to back up my fears. so I do NOT think they should even be allowed to *****ASK***** for more info, or even WHISPER such an idea, or scribble it on a napkin! It is like a 4yo kid wanting to fly a 747!

          Never the less, the last 10 years have seen the greatest loss of freedoms in the US in ALL OF HISTORY! BTW Lois Lerner committed a FELONY. Actually, she committed several. The last one was followed up by a claim to the 5th amendment. Fifth amendment to WHAT!!?!?!? It COULDN'T be the constitution they hate so much and that the IRS fights tooth and nail. ANYWAY, many lawyers say that her speech prohibits the claim to the 5th amendment.

          Oh well, NO WORRIES! A person has been recorded on tape saying that Lois was lying. The interesting part, is that it is lois lerner HERSELF! Want to bet that she doesn't even get a cut in pay or a day in jail?

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            SO.... What I meant was that a pattern for a fingerprint ID scanner was NOT a fingerprint, and thus DIFFERENT! In any event, there is a CHOICE!
            Oh, well...maybe that clears up some confusion then because I didn't say that fingerprint/palm scanners worked identically, just that there's not a "big difference" in how they work for ID purposes. The both just scan the exterior part of the hand and translate the patterns into an encrypted hash that's then used for access/ID. Neither is intrusive like taking DNA and neither has the info that DNA data abuse can have.

            So, now that were on the same page regarding the tech; do you think a law that adds more clarity and protection for people against DNA data abuses is a good idea or not?

            (thanks for going back and clarifying)
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            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
              Originally Posted by GrowTutor View Post

              Oh, well...maybe that clears up some confusion then because I didn't say that fingerprint/palm scanners worked identically, just that there's not a "big difference" in how they work for ID purposes. The both just scan the exterior part of the hand and translate the patterns into an encrypted hash that's then used for access/ID. Neither is intrusive like taking DNA and neither has the info that DNA data abuse can have.

              So, now that were on the same page regarding the tech; do you think a law that adds more clarity and protection for people against DNA data abuses is a good idea or not?

              (thanks for going back and clarifying)
              I've said, all along, that they should be limited. HECK, it is PATENTLY ILLEGAL in SO many ways for congress to pass laws for/against THEMSELVES. Things like this law and that don't affect them, etc... Conflict of interest, violation of several amendments, violations of state and federal law, etc.... So maybe they should make the illegality ABUNDANTLY clear. Of course, that will NEVER happen. I guess their next step will be invalidating the president and supreme court!

              The idea was SUPPOSED to be that congress would be LIMITED and if they made a law affecting anyone that was out of line, the president and the supreme court were to keep them in check. The president was to further have a hand of keeping the others in check. The supreme court was purely to LIMIT and suggest. SO, for example, when miranda was charged and claimed he didn't know, the supreme court invalidated the judgement and suggested that they be informed. It then was adopted as a precedent in subsequent cases, and the miranda warnings were adopted. They can only react as a last resort anyway.

              Steve0
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              • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                I've said, all along, that they should be limited.
                OK, that takes care of my comment...
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  • Profile picture of the author KimW
    While I am not getting into that discussion,I can see how you took my post the wrong way.
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    • Profile picture of the author GrowTutor
      Originally Posted by KimW View Post

      While I am not getting into that discussion,I can see how you took my post the wrong way.
      Well, if you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. Thanks for clarifying though...
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  • Profile picture of the author reputablemarketing
    They try and add on 101 useless things to do to your body... like HERE - let's cut you open ... so that way we can SEE what is wrong with you?!?!
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