Did you here this yet on FAUX NEWS? (NUKES movement news)

226 replies
  • OFF TOPIC
  • |
Exclusive: High Level Source Confirms Secret US Nuclear Warhead Transfer


» Exclusive: High Level Source Confirms Secret US Nuclear Warhead Transfer Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


Anthony Gucciardi & Alex Jones

Infowars.com
September 3, 2013

"A high level source inside the military has now confirmed to us that Dyess Air Force base is actively moving nuclear warheads to the East Coast of the United States in a secret transfer that has no paper trail.

According to the high level military source, who has a strong record of continually being proven correct in deep military activity, the Dyess Air Force Commander authorized unknown parties to transfer the nuclear warheads to an unknown location that has been reported to be South Carolina, where the warheads will then be picked up and potentially utilized.

This is of particular interest not only due to the fact that the Syrian situation has escalated to the point of a very realistic hot war scenario, but due to the fact that Dyess has repeatedly denied the existence of nuclear warheads inside the base."
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    What, is faux news another name for RT or something? it fits!

    As for FOX news, the only document they recently released on Dyess is apparently 4 crew members eject, survive B-1B bomber crash in Montana after leaving South Dakota base | Fox News

    They are more concerned with the destruction of the US educational system, as if it didn't ALREADY have enough problems! Here is what they have to say about THAT:

    Classroom chaos? Critics blast new Common Core education standards | Fox News

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8470137].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
      FAUX (FOX) News - just another corporate controlled mainstream media "script readers" tool.....like MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, MSN, Yahoo....etc.


      Faux /ˈf/ is a French word for "false".

      When manufacturing faux objects or materials, an attempt is often made to create products which will resemble the imitated items as closely as possible.
      Signature

      Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

      Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8470169].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by AeroBuilders View Post

        FAUX (FOX) News - just another corporate controlled mainstream media "script readers" tool.....like MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, MSN, Yahoo....etc.


        Faux /ˈf/ is a French word for "false".

        When manufacturing faux objects or materials, an attempt is often made to create products which will resemble the imitated items as closely as possible.
        Yeah, Je parle un petit peu france, But Faux is NO pronounced FOX, and FOX is NOT as false as people claim, while they watch so much.....ICSSMM!

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8470391].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
          Yeap - just a play on words. FOX News is the RIGHT side of the "controlled opposition" game where they entrap the masses within the corporate controlled lies. They tend to be the mouthpiece for the NeoCON agenda, which is on the opposite side of the SAME CON that you will see on MSNBC pushing the far left agenda.

          BTW, here is a great story on Matt Drudge (independent media)!

          http://www.dailypaul.com/297906/matt...ntent=FaceBook

          "Matt Drudge, the founder of the enormously popular conservative news aggregator DrudgeReport.com, tweeted today that since there are no real differences between Democrats and Republicans the only two real political parties are Authoritarians and Libertarians."

          COOL!
          Signature

          Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

          Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8470417].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    AB,

    A LOT of conservatives really dislike the republican party. SERIOUSLY, some talkshow hosts were accused of being partisan or merely republican, and they tried to make it VERY clear that they were conservative and the republican party WASN'T! JIBJAB, in the 2008 elections made it CLEAR that many didn't like mccain because he was liberal! ALSO, in the past 2 years about three of the most listened to conservative hosts were KICKED OFF or encouraged to leave republican stations. Don't worry though, they simply took off.

    So don't think things are so easily believed. Some now believe that Chris Christie thinks people will easily forget his senseless and immediate lauding. Frankly, I INSTANTLY got a bad taste in my mouth and within SECONDS permanently lost all respect for him. I am not alone.

    Still Fox has brought up some of this, DO have some detractors on, etc.... ICSAWLM!

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8470486].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8473859].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8473863].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lewis T
    There's definitely a cause for concern. Obama wouldn't just wake up, drink some coffee and decide that he's going to order nuclear warheads to be moved around from state to state for no reason.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8474101].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      There's definitely a cause for concern. Obama wouldn't just wake up, drink some coffee and decide that he's going to order nuclear warheads to be moved around from state to state for no reason.
      Wow.

      Not only are you folks getting way over the "no politics" line, you've stepped right into some of the sloppiest thinking I've seen in years. I've come to expect much better of the Lounge.

      But hell, why would anyone think the government would move or store nuclear weapons secretly? They ought to be published like bus schedules, right?

      'Cause, you know, people have the right to know. And terrorists are people, too. So...

      And of course he didn't just wake up and decide to mobilize the "Guaranteed to start WW III" cavalcade. It's likely these moves were planned, if the reports are true in any fashion, months or years ago, and for reasons that have nothing to do with the situation in Syria.

      Correlation is not causality.


      Paul
      Signature
      .
      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8474215].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        I know Paul. It's a pretty ridiculous thought process there. OK, we are moving nukes closer to the East coast while the Syrian situation is going on because ...??? Because we don't have enough nuclear weapons on submarines? Because the nukes wouldn't reach the middle east from where they were? Lol. It's comical really.

        By the way, our 18 Trident submarines carry 50 percent of the total U.S. strategic warheads. I'm thinking moving these subs a wee bit closer to any potential problems will be sufficient for any far fetched nuclear holocaust scenario. Good grief!
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8474326].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          But....Paul ....Infowars said so! How can you disbelieve Alex Jones when he says a "high ranking military source" told him so? We know people with security clearance rush to tell Jones what's going on so he can blog about it....

          This is SO secret we've moving nukes in pickup trucks - with no paperwork.:p....uh huh, sure we are.

          the truck driver said to take them to South Carolina and another pick up will take them from there." The fact that this transfer was not signed for and there were no papers is key
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

          I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8474979].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            But....Paul ....Infowars said so! How can you disbelieve Alex Jones when he says a "high ranking military source" told him so? We know people with security clearance rush to tell Jones what's going on so he can blog about it....

            This is SO secret we've moving nukes in pickup trucks - with no paperwork.:p....uh huh, sure we are.
            Well, did he really say it was for the purpose some here claim? And you can bet that MANY things are done with no OFFICIAL paperwork. I'm not saying I believe or anything, just being a devils advocate.

            Most of the nuclear weapons probably ARE on submarines, and one reason is REACTION TIME.

            Steve
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8475033].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
              First of all, I can tell for some of you that you have zero knowledge of how nuclear weapons are transported in the US. I have extensive knowledge of US nuclear weapons convoys and proceedures from my prior military service. There is a very structured and in depth process that is always followed for weapons transport. Also, Dyess AFB is not suppose to have nukes (tactical nukes for B-1 or B-2 bombers) so that is another important aspect of the story.

              This will be the second time now in past years where high level US Military personnel have leaked out completely improper weapons transfer activities within the US. The prior story was confirmed, so the INFOWARS Team was dead on with their source. This is a new incident and again we see the ability of those who actually control the US Military from high level infiltration running non standard ops with nukes - not good at all!

              US Military personnel are getting sick and tired of all the UNCONSTITUTIONAL agendas and actions they see all around them, and they are trying to INFORM the citizenry of severe problems within the operations they are witnessing. You can laugh or think your vast and wondrous knowledge (from your dependence on mainstream corporate controlled media) will have you on the RIGHT side of realities...no problem. Just remember, those from within the infiltrated system are trying to let you know what is really going on. They are trying to inform the citizenry as best they can....many of us are listening to them....you don't have to.

              Moving nukes to the East Coast location (for B-1 and/or B-2 Bomber ops) without following proper protocals is something most of you have no idea how significant this is. I can see why this information is challenging to you - you just don't have any real operational experience in these matters. So go back to laughing or pretending that everything is just great in the country. Go back to the comforts of your Faux News or MSNBC codependence and make sure you don't forget to call your congressman and tell them to vote YES for another war!
              Signature

              Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

              Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8475210].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                you just don't have any real operational experience in these matters
                Your assumptions are showing and your assumptions are incorrect.

                The prior story was confirmed
                Where? By whom?
                Signature
                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8475276].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  Your assumptions are showing and your assumptions are incorrect.

                  Where? By whom?
                  No...you were never involved with nuclear weapons convoys - I was. Done on that issue.
                  Signature

                  Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

                  Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8475553].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author myob
                    Hizbollah officials In the news today.............
                    Oops! Chemical weapons use a big mistake, Hizbollah told Iran - Telegraph

                    Syrian Chemical Weapons official In the news today.............
                    Syrian chemical weapons official has defected from Assad regime - Telegraph

                    US officials In the news today.............
                    Assad Cruisin' for a Bruisin' - Telegraph
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8475577].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
                    You guys can be on her side.....More War!

                    » Alyssa Milano ‘Sex Tape’ Promotes Attack on Syria Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

                    I say no thanks to the propaganda....I leave those mentalities and "tricks" to you guys!

                    I support our troops and say NO MORE UNCONSTITUTIONAL WARS!


                    More news on Syria for the INFORMED....

                    The Syrian War: What You're Not Being Told | Zero Hedge

                    US Military opposition - http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/...syria-war.html

                    Atrocities List Committed by Syrian Rebels - http://www.infowars.com/atrocities-c...-we-fight-for/
                    Signature

                    Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

                    Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8475589].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      You guys can be on her side.....More War!
                      Sloppy logic.

                      The fact that someone questions a single assumption, or one aspect of your commentary, does not mean they actively oppose your entire position. Or even part of it.


                      Paul
                      Signature
                      .
                      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8476907].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                        Sloppy logic.
                        ... And that's being kind.

                        Joe Mobley
                        Signature

                        .

                        Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8476957].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                        Sloppy logic.

                        The fact that someone questions a single assumption, or one aspect of your commentary, does not mean they actively oppose your entire position. Or even part of it.

                        Paul
                        My comments were directed at a few that just can't wait to start the cruise missle strikes on Syria....even though we have no real proof yet that Assad directed forces launched the recent chemical attacks. There definitely seems to be a strain of "support obama no matter what" running through those who can't wait for the attacks to start......strange! Can anyone here ever remember a time when those left of center where screaming at us why we need to get the war started asap....LOL! I think the very strange video I presented displays just how bizarre this "hurry up and attack Syria" CON is getting!
                        Signature

                        Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

                        Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477586].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                          Originally Posted by AeroBuilders View Post

                          Can anyone here ever remember a time when those left of center where screaming at us why we need to get the war started asap....LOL!
                          People are getting a LOT of play out of one guy that, in the 70s, campaigned against a war, described how war mongers do things, etc... and NOW, he is campaigning and using the SAME tactics to say we should attack syria!

                          Apparently, the rebels DID do it, based on several reports including one where the russians found it was a homemade delivery system, etc... AND, if some against the war are right, we would be doing our enemies a FAVOR by attacking! The BEST thing to do would be to honor the US constitution, world position, and the UN, which RARELY agree, and just STAY OUT!

                          On deutsche welle, they seem to indicate that only the us and france are in agreement:

                          The former weapons inspector van Aken but remains skeptical. In Kerry's report no real evidence was given. "This is the thinnest I've seen." Van Aken speaks of a collection of assumptions and assertions. For example, the original recording of a conversation, a senior official Assad, in which he alleged, references the poison gas attack, is not accessible. So the content can not be verified.

                          Syria rebels accuse the Assad regime, the government accuses the rebels.
                          The claim of the United States and France, that only the Assad troops have created a poison gas attack is a position that van Aken considers untenable. "There were defectors from the Syrian army, which could carry chemical weapons. There are army bases and arsenals have been overrun by the rebels. They have had every opportunity in the world to gain access to these weapons." The use of these weapons is logistically no problem: "These are artillery shells, which they stuck in a mortar, and then shoot them off."
                          Steve
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477661].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                          My comments were directed at a few that just can't wait to start the cruise missle strikes on Syria...
                          PM me links to those posts, please. I seem to have missed them. (Doesn't mean they're not here...)

                          If you're going to address a group generally with a comment directed at a small segment of the group, it's best to qualify the statement.

                          I have to say, your comments push the "no politics" rule rather hard. The only reason I haven't gone back to the "delete 'em all" policy with current events threads is the restraint so many of the longer term members have shown in their responses.


                          Paul
                          Signature
                          .
                          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8478625].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                            The only reason I haven't gone back to the "delete 'em all" policy with current events threads is the restraint so many of the longer term members have shown in their responses.

                            Paul
                            Oh... I thought that the reason that this thread had survived this long was the pure humor/stupidity value of some of the posts.

                            Joe Mobley
                            Signature

                            .

                            Follow Me on Twitter: @daVinciJoe
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8478732].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                              Originally Posted by Joe Mobley View Post

                              Oh... I thought that the reason that this thread had survived this long was the pure humor/stupidity value of some of the posts.

                              Joe Mobley
                              Funnier and dumber ones have been killed. But yeah, most people aren't going past a certain point. I would LOVE to post that coulter video but, like I said....

                              Steve
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8478758].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
                            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                            PM me links to those posts, please. I seem to have missed them. (Doesn't mean they're not here...)

                            If you're going to address a group generally with a comment directed at a small segment of the group, it's best to qualify the statement.

                            I have to say, your comments push the "no politics" rule rather hard. The only reason I haven't gone back to the "delete 'em all" policy with current events threads is the restraint so many of the longer term members have shown in their responses.

                            Paul
                            I have my PRO SYRIAN WAR and the ASSAD DID IT friends who followed me from the now closed out Syria Chemical Attacks thread.

                            I am glad the "long termers" have shown such brilliant restraint because I have posted such terrible realities that just can't be heard by anyone (NO, NO, please make him go away with his posts I can't handle!).....LOL!

                            JK...LOL! BTW, thanks for keeping this info up...this is critical info and people should be smart enough to handle their own due diligence. If they care about the info they can go do some research...if they don't care about the info they can move on.

                            In the end, the fact that Sen Graham Warns of Nuke Strike just a day after the INFOWARS story broke imo validates this is a good story to follow.
                            Signature

                            Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

                            Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8479271].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                              I am glad the "long termers" have shown such brilliant restraint because I have posted such terrible realities that just can't be heard by anyone (NO, NO, please make him go away with his posts I can't handle!).....LOL!
                              "JK...LOL!" notwithstanding, this is consistent with the tone of many of your posts.

                              If you treat intelligent people like intransigent children and they don't lash back, that is an admirable sort of restraint. It is also the type I was referring to.

                              It is entirely possible to discuss things without the "Everyone who doesn't agree with me unconditionally is weak and stupid and to be scorned" tone. If you wish to be taken seriously, it is something you may want to consider.


                              Paul
                              Signature
                              .
                              Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480146].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author myob
                            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                            I have to say, your comments push the "no politics" rule rather hard. The only reason I haven't gone back to the "delete 'em all" policy with current events threads is the restraint so many of the longer term members have shown in their responses.
                            From a marketing standpoint, I think it would be helpful to understand the conspiracy theorist mindset by allowing threads such as this to continue. There is a medical term for conspiracy theorists, who so often characteristically appear unhinged and use fuzzy logic to support their preconceived notions. A recent study by Michael Wood and Karen Douglas at the University of Kent covers exactly this ground. It's called "What about Building 7?" (Available on Amazon) It's a socio-psychological study of conspiracy theorists using discussions of 9/11 conspiracy theories as case studies.

                            In essence, the book concludes that having "secret" knowledge of the "conspiracy" puts themselves in a unique category of the enlightened or awakened. Their lives are probably unsatisfactory on some level and conspiracies gives them some fulfilment. Many CT believers, (perhaps such as the parrots of Alex Jones' regime) feel they are insignificant nobodies and use their supposed "special knowledge" to bolster their self image.

                            In the book "What about Building 7?", the authors explore the CT worldview, their motivations and what passes for their "thinking". It also makes some useful references to some of the existing literature about conspiracy theorists' psychology. A fascinating study, which I have found to be consistently evident within this thread as well as the OP's two other (deleted) threads of the same theme.

                            With pity and some restraint, I'd guess that there are some who can't emotionally cope with the idea that the world can be so random and chaotic. They find it more emotionally appealing to believe there are shadowy groups controlling events than to accept that the world can just be so wild and weird. The idea that nobody is in control is just too terrifying for them. However, their wild imaginations really do bring up some fascinating stuff. Learn to feed into it, and you'll make a killing.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480897].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                              Paul,
                              From a marketing standpoint, I think it would be helpful to understand the conspiracy theorist mindset by allowing threads such as this to continue.
                              From a civility and enjoyment of the forum standpoint, it's best to keep an eye on them, with one finger on the Big Red Button.

                              We don't have any problems with conspiracy theories being discussed in this section. Even if the overarching model is wrong, they often bring useful facts to light. And they keep people thinking. What we have problems with is the automatic demonization of those who don't buy in.

                              It's funny watching people who claim to think for themselves bashing others for having different, if equally well-informed, opinions.

                              Didactic dilettantes...

                              The notion of looking for a pattern of intent to explain away the natural chaos of human interactions isn't new, but it's interesting when applied to this sort of topic.

                              I have some theories about how that applies to partisan politics, but if I told you what they are, I'd have to kill the thread.


                              Paul
                              Signature
                              .
                              Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480979].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author LarryC
                              << There is a medical term for conspiracy theorists, who so often characteristically appear unhinged and use fuzzy logic to support their preconceived notions. A recent study by Michael Wood and Karen Douglas at the University of Kent covers exactly this ground. It's called "What about Building 7?" (Available on Amazon) It's a socio-psychological study of conspiracy theorists using discussions of 9/11 conspiracy theories as case studies.>>

                              This is an example of the tactic known as medicalization, often used in the social sciences as well as the medical profession. It involves making a group of people appear deviant or unacceptable by creating legitimate sounding medical explanations for their behavior.

                              In some cases this is done for propaganda purposes. In others, it's economic -as in developing new expensive medications to treat all these "disorders."

                              "Explaining" so-called conspiracy theories in this manner is a good way to pretend to refute them without even examining the evidence. It's similar to what totalitarian societies do when they put dissidents in mental hospitals.

                              Medicalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                              Signature
                              Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8481857].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author myob
                                It perhaps is unfair, and conspiracy theorists often feel like marginalised victims, but studies show they really do have similar and discernible characteristics in both their logic and expression. The study I referenced specifically categorizes types:

                                Intrinsic
                                *personality (there appears to be a 'conspirational' personality)
                                *psychosis (intensity is transient, sometimes influenced by medication)

                                Extrinsic
                                *misinformed (evidence limited to specific sources)
                                *motivated (seeks out evidence to mitigate cognitive dissonance)

                                This thread exhibits both intrinsic and extrinsic CT behaviors of the first order, and demonstrates a classic example of a nearly religious adherence to one influential source.
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8481996].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                Their form of thinking is called cognitive dissonance.
                                Cognitive dissonance refers to the confusion in one person's mind when presented with a new fact/theory that is in conflict with their previous belief system or opinion.

                                Applied to Snowden - CD would be appreciating the release of information while at the same time thinking it was wrong for him to violate confidentiality.

                                I recently read an article where the writer blamed "cognitive dissonance" for the failure of "most people" to believe some conspiracy or other. He seemed to think CD was almost a disease to be cured.

                                It's common sense asserting itself. When confronted with a strange/odd/wild theory of conspiracy, the cognitive dissonance created is what makes a reasonable person use logic and look for fact/truth.

                                The good conspiracy theorists used unrelated or out-of-context facts to support their theories and create cognitive dissonance in others which results in some becoming followers/believers.

                                Others just scream "out to get us" so many times they look like nutcases.:p
                                Signature
                                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8482099].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                  Cognitive dissonance refers to the confusion in one person's mind when presented with a new fact/theory that is in conflict with their previous belief system or opinion.

                                  Applied to Snowden - CD would be appreciating the release of information while at the same time thinking it was wrong for him to violate confidentiality.

                                  I recently read an article where the writer blamed "cognitive dissonance" for the failure of "most people" to believe some conspiracy or other. He seemed to think CD was almost a disease to be cured.

                                  It's common sense asserting itself. When confronted with a strange/odd/wild theory of conspiracy, the cognitive dissonance created is what makes a reasonable person use logic and look for fact/truth.

                                  The good conspiracy theorists used unrelated or out-of-context facts to support their theories and create cognitive dissonance in others which results in some becoming followers/believers.

                                  Others just scream "out to get us" so many times they look like nutcases.:p
                                  You have to also consider slip programming when we talk about these issues. Slip programming is NOT a conspiracy theory or always even intentional, however, it can be, and is sometimes used intentionally.

                                  While it was denied for most of our history, humans do have instincts. The major one is language. If you raise two people in isolation, they will form a language of their own. Survival in a group depends on the instinct of communication........and survival instinct. When we come to think of something as a "danger" or "discomfort" to us, our bodies will actually start to produce chemical reactions to something. When the idea that government, religion, etc. is good, and thinking it is bad is crazy is negatively sanctioned strictly enough, a person will actually start to produce a chemical reaction that shuts down their cognitive system and put them in "fight or flight" mode when an idea is merely mentioned. That's where "tinfoil hat screamers" come from. This is difficult programming to remove, but it can be done. When we see people starting to react in cognitive dissonance, they are actually in the process of losing slip programming. Once they no longer produce the chemical reactions, they can see a topic and actually think more logically about it and draw real conclusions instead of just reactions.

                                  That's a light view, but you get the idea. Positive slip programming can be achieved as well. That's where cults come from. The cult leader triggers the positive chemical reactions of "flee to: sanctuary" and once that reaction is achieved they can do any malicious crap they want to and the followers will willingly go along with it -- and actually fight ferociously to avoid becoming disconnected to that "feel safe" source. It's also really difficult to remove that programming.
                                  Signature

                                  Sal
                                  When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                                  Beyond the Path

                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8482715].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author myob
                                    Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                    From a marketing standpoint, I think it would be helpful to understand the conspiracy theorist mindset by allowing threads such as this to continue. There is a medical term for conspiracy theorists, who so often characteristically appear unhinged and use fuzzy logic to support their preconceived notions. A recent study by Michael Wood and Karen Douglas at the University of Kent covers exactly this ground. It's called "What about Building 7?" (Available on Amazon) It's a socio-psychological study of conspiracy theorists using discussions of 9/11 conspiracy theories as case studies.

                                    Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

                                    This is an example of the tactic known as medicalization, often used in the social sciences as well as the medical profession. It involves making a group of people appear deviant or unacceptable by creating legitimate sounding medical explanations for their behavior.

                                    In some cases this is done for propaganda purposes. In others, it's economic -as in developing new expensive medications to treat all these "disorders."

                                    "Explaining" so-called conspiracy theories in this manner is a good way to pretend to refute them without even examining the evidence. It's similar to what totalitarian societies do when they put dissidents in mental hospitals.
                                    I'm not aware of any medical treatment or medications specifically for those involved in promulgating conspiracy theories. In my own experience in marketing and associating with them over the years is they are otherwise normal, intelligent, rational and fully functional individuals. But when it comes to supposed global conspiracies, UFOs, religion, etc, rationality and logic seems to just suddenly fly out of the window.

                                    In my opinion, as seems to be so with several others in this thread, the OP here has continually failed to rationally answer well-reasoned questions and posts about his opening commentary. Time and time again, his replies were either stock answers parroted from the Alex Jones regime or nonsense filled with condescension, hubris, arrogance, insults, rudeness, and fuzzy logic. In democratic societies, this type of behavior is accepted and considered "free speech". However, the Warrior Forum is not a democracy. Threads that are deemed to be overly dissident by the totalitarian PTB of this forum may suddenly disappear, as happened with at least two of the OP's other threads.

                                    The other day I was reading through the September issue of "The Walrus", and the article about States' gun culture had a good description that seems to about cover the CT mindset: "Those who retreat into fantasy cannot engage in rational discussion, for fantasy is all they have left of their tattered self-esteem. When their myths are attacked, rather than a discussion of facts and evidence, it triggers a ferocious emotional backlash." This fits comfortably well within my own worldview based on countless similar conspiracy "debates" I have participated in over the years right here on the Warrior Forum.
                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8484157].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                      The Jimmy Carter fans consider conspiracy theorists the greatest threat to themselves?

                                      Sad.
                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8484179].message }}
                                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                        Originally Posted by socialentry View Post

                                        The Jimmy Carter fans consider conspiracy theorists the greatest threat to themselves?

                                        Sad.
                                        Is that the SAME jimmy carter that said he saw aliens, and was going to find out HIMSELF and let all know? Not exactly a guy to laugh at CT people!

                                        Steve
                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485146].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                    You have to also consider slip programming ...
                                    OK, I've seen you mention slip programming a few times. Now I'm forced to announce to the world that I don't know what it is.

                                    I Googled it and found it's a computer programming language, it's an acronym for Sign Language Interpreting Program and/or the St. Louis Internship Program, and that's about it.

                                    I doubt if you're talking about one of those things, so ... what the heck is slip programming?
                                    Signature

                                    Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8484484].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                      I'm with you, Dennis - have no idea what "slip programming" is.

                                      Cognitive dissonance happens daily to most of us in small ways. We are constantly adjusting our mindsets and our perception and preferences.

                                      "Fight or flight" is an adrenaline rush. I don't believe most cult leaders have the ability to produce that level of physical response in their followers - except in group situations where they are able to create mass hysteria or mob violence.

                                      But there are logical reasons why people would adopt or consider conspiracies - it's a natural self protective thought process. I read a good study about it (and can't find the study now) that gave an example of thought processes.

                                      When men lived off the land they might hear a rustle in the undergrowth as they walked through a forest. Some of them would assume it was the wind and ignore it - others would look for a panther or a bear. Some of those who ignored the sounds were attacked by predators - and that led more early humans to distrust what they could not see. As result, the study found, most humans are hard-wired to look for explanations/reasons for what they see or hear but don't understand.

                                      An interesting article is:

                                      Truth and lies: Conspiracy theories are running rampant thanks to modern technology - Features - Gadgets & Tech - The Independent

                                      Conspiracy theories are cultural viruses. Once they infect the zeitgeist, it is extremely difficult to stamp them out – no matter how solid the evidence against them is. Studies have shown that people who are prone to believe in conspiracies display an innate bias towards information which supports that conspiracy, no matter how spurious that information is and no matter how solid the evidence against the conspiracy is.

                                      Social networking sites allow conspiracy theorists to seek out and link with like-minded individuals. Whereas past conspiracies... took years to formulate and disseminate, today's conspiracies develop almost organically.
                                      One thing in the studies of conspiracy theories and how they spread that truly concerns me is this:

                                      They found that schoolchildren were unable to differentiate between the two and that one third of pupils between 11 and 13 thought that Google organises its search hits in order of the reliability of content.
                                      Some of my earliest memories as a child are of trying to reconcile what adults told me with what I believed to be true. I was fascinated by dinosaurs and by the old west (cowboys/horses) and though I was told those were "history and stories" I firmly believed dinosaurs and cowboys existed...in another geographical location. I read books from age three - and to me those things were REAL. Resolving the cognitive dissonance created meant accepting facts and history and geography.

                                      My childish confusion was due to stories and old movies. How on earth do we teach children reality today when they are bombarded with videos and misinformation online through YouTube, Google and social media?
                                      Signature
                                      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485159].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                      Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                                      OK, I've seen you mention slip programming a few times. Now I'm forced to announce to the world that I don't know what it is.

                                      I Googled it and found it's a computer programming language, it's an acronym for Sign Language Interpreting Program and/or the St. Louis Internship Program, and that's about it.

                                      I doubt if you're talking about one of those things, so ... what the heck is slip programming?

                                      Go back and read my post again. I explained it as well as I could in a light interpretation -- tell me where I lose you in the explanation and I might be able to clarify.
                                      Signature

                                      Sal
                                      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                                      Beyond the Path

                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8487206].message }}
                                      • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                                        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                        Go back and read my post again. I explained it as well as I could in a light interpretation -- tell me where I lose you in the explanation and I might be able to clarify.
                                        It's not just me that doesn't understand it. But anyway, I went back and reread your post. You're mostly talking about instincts. Are you saying "slip programming" is our instinctual reactions?

                                        Or are you perhaps saying slip programming is what someone does when they try to use instinctual reactions to control events or outcomes? The old problem, reaction solution play?
                                        Signature

                                        Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8487596].message }}
                                        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                          Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill View Post

                                          It's not just me that doesn't understand it. But anyway, I went back and reread your post. You're mostly talking about instincts. Are you saying "slip programming" is our instinctual reactions?

                                          Or are you perhaps saying slip programming is what someone does when they try to use instinctual reactions to control events or outcomes? The old problem, reaction solution play?
                                          I saw that I lost a few in my explanation, LOL. Reason 1 that I'm not a teacher:rolleyes:

                                          Okay - our instinct system is how the slip programming is installed. Take an idea, lets for this example that aliens lived here with their pet dinosaurs. Teach that to a kid. Every time that kid shows a positive belief in that idea, you positively sanction it...lets say they get a cookie. If they question the idea at all, they are hit a few times, later they are isolated from, rejected by their "pack" (family, friends, etc) for their statement. They start to look at speaking in opposition of aliens as a threat to their happiness, and stop expressing doubt to keep their place in a safe community. It starts to make them very uneasy (physical reactions start) when the subject is approached negatively and they start to avoid situations that questions the existence of aliens on the planet. If they see more negative sanctions against that idea (grounded, spanked, etc) they will get to a point their body reacts to the fear of the sanctions and their thinking just shuts down when they hear that aliens didn't exist. The idea has become attached to a fear reaction

                                          No matter how conclusive the evidence that aliens were never here - the person who has had a fear reaction programmed into that idea will see the threat in the messenger and lash out against them instead of considering the idea. Depending how strongly the fear reaction is instilled and in how many people it's instilled, you can use these reactions to kindle hate - and wars - and any other mass action you want.

                                          An example of a positively sanctioned idea is Pavlov's dogs - they were slip programmed to salivate any time they heard the bell.......same type of physical programming, this time for an idea, rather than against. The bell represented food - safety, comfort.

                                          Religious slip programming is so strong because you are dealing with fear of the unknown and fear of death. Not saying that all people who believe in a diety are slip programmed........but you can tell when talking to someone who is. Religious extremists (kill for deity, kill the sinner mindset) show extremely strong slip programming. You will see milder forms all over society. Mild forms are normal and just happen when socializing youth. Strong cases, such as religion, nationality are often a result of planned indoctrination - same idea, stronger scale.

                                          Strong cases are evident by how loudly someone screams against a messenger of an idea.
                                          Messenger: Today a secret document was reveal that proves government intentions to........
                                          Slip programmed response: STUPID, CRAZY IDIOT, PARANOID NUT CASE.............

                                          Notice the messenger didn't even really need to say what the government intentions were before the reaction started. For people who are religious extremists (or gov, etc), just the mention of the name of the other religion, gov can set them off and shut them down.

                                          It doesn't matter what the idea is, if there is a word or phrase, etc, that you act automatically to by refusing to listen to anything further about it - it may be slip programming. I used to automatically think a woman who would drink beer in public was moronic trash and refused to associate with them at all. If you started to tell me that "She said this...." I would automatically stop the talker and tell them the woman was a moron and didn't want to hear any more. That was a little piece of slip programming I got from the way I was raised. Women were NOT to drink beer. Tank out on wine or vodka, fine - but beer drinking made you a totally idiotic, slobbed out, repulsive tramp. To this day, even after being able to ditch such a stupid piece of programming, I still don't drink beer. LOL.

                                          If you ever find yourself renouncing an idea -- or especially if you go after the messenger themselves, you might want to rethink why you reacted negatively before really considering evidence. It's usually slip programming. People react to the idea of slip programming itself, simply because it's called "programming" and people don't like the idea of their mind being "programmed" - even though the very act of learning words is a form of biological programming in itself (instinctual).
                                          Signature

                                          Sal
                                          When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                                          Beyond the Path

                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8488388].message }}
                                          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                            Sal,

                                            In having been a teacher before, all I can say is A+.

                                            Terra
                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8488451].message }}
                                            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                              Sal,

                                              In having been a teacher before, all I can say is A+.

                                              Terra
                                              Thanks Terra - I was a teacher but only did two semesters at Mott CC in Flint, that's when cut out of MI. for good. LOL. I think I saved lives by leaving the profession. Serious.

                                              Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

                                              That certainly happens all the time, but isn't what you're calling slip programming just another name for operant conditioning, which is part of the behaviorist school of psychology? Skinner, for example, is a big influence on modern education, parenting and even the legal system.

                                              Operant Conditioning - Introduction to Operant Conditioning
                                              Okay first - my background is linguistics/cognitive science so I'm not sure if I cam completely correct here but this is my take on it.

                                              Operant conditioning is everyday socialization. Society doesn't hang together without some norms. Slip programming goes beyond normal norms - when slipped programmed an idea becomes so strongly embedded that the person can't even entertain thoughts about what they have been slip programmed against. It just "slips" out of the cognitive workstation. There are particular triggers (usually linguistic) that trigger the shut down. Their cognitive functions stop when they are confronted with the idea at all. Sometimes they spew ad-hominem chow to get the person to shut up or others to help attack. More often they just move out of the vicinity of the information, click off a thread, get out of the same room with a person, etc. If they respond at all it will be with an attempt to convince others that the messenger is either stupid or crazy (a call to herd mentality). If you slip program a group, you can end up with a rabidly dangerous group if the trigger is presented.

                                              In my example of the beer drinking - that was a weak example because I didn't want to start a fight on the forum. Maybe weak enough not to qualify - other than my dad's mother had some pretty bizarre methods to drill a point into your head -- like dragging you into a church and having the congregation pray over you and forceably "save" you. I was scared shitless, so there was trauma involved. When my parents found out they forbade her to take me into another church without them with us. LOL, There's more to it than that, but you get the drift. I was so programmed against beer that I would have an allergy reaction if I took a sip. My idea of women drinking beer gave me the same reaction that some get when they hear the idea that someone with power and money is doing something conspiratorial. Just get away from it.

                                              A plan by the PTB that is put into action with public consent is nothing but a plan and nobody thinks anything much about it other than being for or against. A plan put together in private and being executed in secrecy is called a "conspiracy" and in this nation, kids are slip programmed against the word conspiracy when used in context with authority. They yell about the messenger being a "tinfoil nut" before (i.e. instead of) listening to what the evidence is - and if they pretend to listen to evidence, they will denounce any source as not being "real", even while falling back on propaganda, disinformation to support their refusal to consider something themselves. If all else fails they just start name calling and it's obvious if you were face to face, they would be in mode to either walk away or deck you with nothing in between. When they get to that point that they will actually refute points of an argument that contains "trigger" words, they are coming into a cognitive dissonance stage of thought where the actual physical reaction to a trigger word is starting to fade.

                                              So many people are experiencing dissonance right now that there is an attempt being made to "reprogram". And that is where you find PC language mandates. Look past those mandates and you will find what it is they are actually trying to turn people against........and it isn't what would be apparent.
                                              Signature

                                              Sal
                                              When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                                              Beyond the Path

                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8489985].message }}
                                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                I'm not sure what is going on with this latest story.
                                                I think the story has started changing and will change even more tomorrow - the powers that be have just been handed a way out of a mess. Once they thought about Putin's comments - they realized it was something they could use. These are smart guys - they know they need a way out they can explain.

                                                The public pushback on this Syria question was unexpected - and quite surprising to those in D.C. I don't think any at the top expected the level of anger that would come from U.S. citizens.

                                                You know those in power are polling all the time to gauge public opinion - going to Congress put it on Congress - but looks like a "no" is coming in Congress so leaders need an "out". Putin just gave it to them and I think they'll run with it and claim it was their idea in the first place.:p
                                                Signature
                                                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                                I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8491170].message }}
                                                • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                                                  According to my secret, exclusive sources it WAS John Kerry that first mentioned it and then the Russians liked the idea.

                                                  Kerry comment could undermine Obama push for Syria strike | Fox News

                                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                  Putin just gave it to them and I think they'll run with it and claim it was their idea in the first place.:p
                                                  Mark
                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8491180].message }}
                                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                                                    According to my secret, exclusive sources it WAS John Kerry that first mentioned it and then the Russians liked the idea.

                                                    Kerry comment could undermine Obama push for Syria strike | Fox News



                                                    Mark
                                                    Actually, it was reported LAST WEEK that RUSSIA said THEY wanted to take care of it! HECK, someone here mentioned something, I forget if tat was mentioned, and I said "If russia wants to handle it, LET THEM!!!!"! So don't accuse kerry of some bright idea.

                                                    Steve
                                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8491308].message }}
                                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                  It's hard to tell if this was already discussed before today. I've heard that story also. Afterall, Putin and Obama met just a few days ago and talked about ways to settle this mess.

                                                  Russia doesn't want chemical weapons getting into the hands of terrorists also because they have their own problems with them. From Assad's point of view he just wants to survive and keep his gig as dictator. It's been a good one for his family. If the threat wasn't/isn't real he wouldn't even think about giving up his weapons. By the way, Syria admitted to ,for the first time, having chemical weapons, so that is something in itself.

                                                  I don't think the pushback was that unexpected. They are pretty good at polling. I also don't know if the admin thought they could really get a resolution passed. With THIS Congress? They can't agree on anything. So, this whole situation has been a bit baffling to me, but maybe it will workout fairly well, although the war will probably go on.

                                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                  I think the story has started changing and will change even more tomorrow - the powers that be have just been handed a way out of a mess. Once they thought about Putin's comments - they realized it was something they could use. These are smart guys - they know they need a way out they can explain.

                                                  The public pushback on this Syria question was unexpected - and quite surprising to those in D.C. I don't think any at the top expected the level of anger that would come from U.S. citizens.

                                                  You know those in power are polling all the time to gauge public opinion - going to Congress put it on Congress - but looks like a "no" is coming in Congress so leaders need an "out". Putin just gave it to them and I think they'll run with it and claim it was their idea in the first place.:p
                                                  Signature
                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8491371].message }}
                                                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                    I also don't know if the admin thought they could really get a resolution passed. With THIS Congress? They can't agree on anything. So, this whole situation has been a bit baffling to me, but maybe it will workout fairly well, although the war will probably go on.
                                                    Wow, he's for the war!

                                                    Steve
                                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492626].message }}
                                                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                      ??? I'm for the war? How do you get that out of what I said?
                                                      Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                                      Wow, he's for the war!

                                                      Steve
                                                      Signature
                                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492826].message }}
                                                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                        ??? I'm for the war? How do you get that out of what I said?
                                                        I didn't know who the "he" was that Steve was referring to. I thought that maybe he was referring to you, but after I re-read your post, I thought it couldn't be.

                                                        Maybe Steve will clear that up for us.

                                                        Terra
                                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492838].message }}
                                                        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                                                          Anyone for a biscuit yet?
                                                          Signature

                                                          Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

                                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492853].message }}
                                                          • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
                                                            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                                                            Anyone for a biscuit yet?

                                                            What kind are you offering? Sarin or sodium fluoride!
                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8493517].message }}
                                                          • Profile picture of the author myob
                                                            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                                                            Anyone for a biscuit yet?
                                                            Baked KGB style of course. Just like Putin's "solution", it's deceptively attractive.

                                                            From Obama's speech tonight:
                                                            "... over the last few days, we've seen some encouraging signs. In part because of the credible threat of U.S. military action, as well as constructive talks that I had with President Putin, the Russian government has indicated a willingness to join with the international community in pushing Assad to give up his chemical weapons. ..."
                                                            FULL TRANSCRIPT: President Obama's Sept. 10 speech on Syria - The Washington Post
                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8495510].message }}
                                                            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                                                              Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

                                                              What kind are you offering? Sarin or sodium fluoride!
                                                              Sarin. They're apparently out of Plutonium enriched ones though I'm afraid.

                                                              See below for cooking techniques...

                                                              Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                                              Baked KGB style of course.
                                                              From Obama's speech tonight:
                                                              "... over the last few days, we’ve seen some encouraging signs. In part because of the credible threat of U.S. military action, as well as constructive talks that I had with President Putin, the Russian government has indicated a willingness to join with the international community in pushing Assad to give up his chemical weapons. ..."
                                                              FULL TRANSCRIPT: President Obama's Sept. 10 speech on Syria - The Washington Post
                                                              Someone's really taking the biscuit on this one.
                                                              Signature

                                                              Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

                                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8495854].message }}
                                                              • Profile picture of the author myob
                                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                UN report to be ready this coming Monday and it apparently doesn't look good for Assad. More pressure for him to cooperate and for Russia to keep it's word.

                                                                Exclusive: U.N. Report Will Point to Assad Regime in Massive Chemical Attack | The Cable

                                                                From Obama's Sept 10 speech on the Syrian crisis:
                                                                "... over the last few days, we've seen some encouraging signs. In part because of the credible threat of U.S. military action, as well as constructive talks that I had with President Putin, the Russian government has indicated a willingness to join with the international community in pushing Assad to give up his chemical weapons. ..."
                                                                FULL TRANSCRIPT: President Obama's Sept. 10 speech on Syria - The Washington Post
                                                                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                                                                Someone's really taking the biscuit on this one.
                                                                Exactly. Putin is highly experienced in playing this game, and Russia is a staunch ally of the Assad regime. It will take months of negotiations, then perhaps years to secure Syria's massive chemical weapons arsenal. These weapons are spread across Syria; its chemical weapons complex includes factories, bunkers, storage depots and thousands of munitions.

                                                                In addition, Putin knows this action will require perhaps tens of thousands of troops - boots on the ground, to protect the inspectors. Accounting for Syria's chemical weapons would require huge investments of resources and time, as well as the assumption of battlefield risk. Putin's deceptively attractive biscuit comes loaded with hidden ingredients that will cause major gastric upheavals and violently irritable bowel movements.
                                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8500524].message }}
                                                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                  Putin also has the Olympics coming to Russia next year and he would love being looked upon as the guy who kept the US from bombing Syria beforehand, especially with the recent backlash from the world to the anti-gay legislation in Russia. Assad is probably even expendable to him. As long as the rebels don't win and Russia keeps an ally in power he will be happy.

                                                                  Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                                                  Exactly. Putin is highly experienced in playing this game, and Russia is a staunch ally of the Assad regime. It will take months of negotiations, then perhaps years to secure Syria's massive chemical weapons arsenal. These weapons are spread across Syria; its chemical weapons complex includes factories, bunkers, storage depots and thousands of munitions.

                                                                  In addition, Putin knows this action will require perhaps tens of thousands of troops - boots on the ground, to protect the inspectors. Accounting for Syria's chemical weapons would require huge investments of resources and time, as well as the assumption of battlefield risk. Putin's deceptively attractive biscuit comes loaded with hidden ingredients that will cause major gastric upheavals and violently irritable bowel movements.
                                                                  Signature
                                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8500957].message }}
                                                                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                    Say what you will about him, but Putin understands what our foreign policy is really doing better then many in this country do.
                                                                    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...ria.html?_r=1&
                                                                    Signature

                                                                    Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                    Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                    As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                    You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8502335].message }}
                                                                    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                      People here tend to follow the official message when it comes to Putin...the photos of him shirtless and jokes about his "tough guy" image. That image suits the people he represents. We've had similar leaders here with Reagan on horseback and Bush clearing scrub on his ranch. Now we have golf.

                                                                      We are encouraged to view Putin as a "clown" and that's a mistake. The man would not be where he is if he were not intelligent and savvy and manipulative. Those are the same traits we seem to value in our own leaders.

                                                                      Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country.
                                                                      It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation.
                                                                      I so agree with that. We have a habit of believing we are "above" other countries. We are encouraged to think all countries want democracy - and that we are the model that others strive for. It's not necessarily true. People who truly believe they are exceptional often don't see their own weaknesses and mistakes. If they are "the best" - how could what they want be wrong?
                                                                      Signature
                                                                      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                                                      I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8502576].message }}
                                                                      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                        Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country.
                                                                        Well, it's kind of turned into that but it started out with citizens demanding the end of the Bathe party and the Assad dictatorship. Democracy was certainly the main goal.
                                                                        Signature
                                                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8502765].message }}
                                                                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                          Tim - I think "freedom" might be a better word than "democracy".

                                                                          But it did start that way and has evolved into what it is now. Currently there doesn't seem to be much free or democratic on either side.
                                                                          Signature
                                                                          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                                                          I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8502785].message }}
                                                                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                          Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                          Well, it's kind of turned into that but it started out with citizens demanding the end of the Bathe party and the Assad dictatorship. Democracy was certainly the main goal.
                                                                          Not even sure it started out with democracy as the main goal.
                                                                          Assad belongs to one 'sect' and the protesters belonged to a different 'sect'. The majority of his army defectors belonged to the sect of the protesters. Even though only a Muslim can hold office in Syria, under Assad the Christian population was protected and had the same rights (other then holding a political office) as the Muslims. This was one of the problems the protesters had with Assad and one of the reasons why so many Muslim extremist rushed into the country to help the rebels.
                                                                          It's really more a secular civil war then a war for democracy.
                                                                          Signature

                                                                          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                          Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                          As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8502881].message }}
                                                                          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                            I know the religious makeup of the Bathe party, but it's pretty clear the original protesters were influenced by what was happening in other countries such as Egypt and Tunisia, part of what is called the Arab Spring. Assad had promised political reforms and never delivered. The people wanted democracy and/or freedom of some sort. He didn't want to give up his power so easily, resisted and started killing people. I do believe freedom and democracy in this case is the same thing. I doubt the people would want to replace one dictator with another.

                                                                            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                            Not even sure it started out with democracy as the main goal.
                                                                            Assad belongs to one 'sect' and the protesters belonged to a different 'sect'. The majority of his army defectors belonged to the sect of the protesters. Even though only a Muslim can hold office in Syria, under Assad the Christian population was protected and had the same rights (other then holding a political office) as the Muslims. This was one of the problems the protesters had with Assad and one of the reasons why so many Muslim extremist rushed into the country to help the rebels.
                                                                            It's really more a secular civil war then a war for democracy.
                                                                            Signature
                                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503085].message }}
                                                                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                              Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                              I know the religious makeup of the Bathe party, but it's pretty clear the original protesters were influenced by what was happening in other countries such as Egypt and Tunisia, part of what is called the Arab Spring. Assad had promised political reforms and never delivered. The people wanted democracy and/or freedom of some sort. He didn't want to give up his power so easily, resisted and started killing people. I do believe freedom and democracy in this case is the same thing. I doubt the people would want to replace one dictator with another.
                                                                              It doesn't matter what their original intent was. The fact is different militant Muslim sects have used the Arab Spring as a spring board to initiate violence and secure themselves as leaders. It's happening in Egypt, Libya, Iraq, and Syria as we speak.
                                                                              Sure they may claim to want democracy and I have no doubt that the common people want democracy, but the factions fighting for control want control for their sect and Shari Law. Democracy to them is you are free to worship as we say and free to vote for who we tell you to vote for.
                                                                              But none of that really matters Tim, because it is still not our place to get involved with another countries civil affairs.
                                                                              Name one Arab country in the Middle East where US involvement has ended in peace.
                                                                              Signature

                                                                              Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                              Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                              As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                              You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503389].message }}
                                                                              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                                Sure it matters. Why on earth would it not matter? People want freedom after decades of a brutal dictatorship. Seems important to me.

                                                                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                It doesn't matter what their original intent was.
                                                                                Signature
                                                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503502].message }}
                                                                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                  Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                  Sure it matters. Why on earth would it not matter? People want freedom after decades of a brutal dictatorship. Seems important to me.
                                                                                  Ah, Tim it doesn't matter in the since that it is not an excuse for us to get involved in a military capacity.
                                                                                  Read the whole sentence and the one after it. Don't stop after the first 6 words.
                                                                                  But none of that really matters Tim, because it is still not our place to get involved with another countries civil affairs.
                                                                                  Name one Arab country in the Middle East where US involvement has ended in peace.
                                                                                  Signature

                                                                                  Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                                  Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                                  As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                                  You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503794].message }}
                                                                          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                                                            Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                            Not even sure it started out with democracy as the main goal.
                                                                            Assad belongs to one 'sect' and the protesters belonged to a different 'sect'. The majority of his army defectors belonged to the sect of the protesters. Even though only a Muslim can hold office in Syria, under Assad the Christian population was protected and had the same rights (other then holding a political office) as the Muslims. This was one of the problems the protesters had with Assad and one of the reasons why so many Muslim extremist rushed into the country to help the rebels.
                                                                            It's really more a secular civil war then a war for democracy.
                                                                            Well said. The rebels are slaughtering Christians over there right now. Children, priests, it doesn't matter. Those are the people we are supposed to side with? I'm not a Muslim - why would I approve of supporting a group that kills Christians? I find that mortifying to think they want money from my work and sweat to support people that kill over religion. Let them fight it out themselves. I won't support that. If they are that rabid, they need to be left in the pit on their own.

                                                                            As far as the gas? We've been lied to about this before...anyone remember ? I'm not willing to create another Iraq because of Syria's pipelines. Fool me twice......shame on me......
                                                                            We are systematically going through every country in the Middle East and taking over, completely destroying them. Yet people still get all foaming at the mouth to continue it....every damned time. Does anyone have any brain anymore?

                                                                            Our gov has not one bit of business over there acting like they are so damned moral and righteous until they clean up their own act over here. We're being poisoned, too - they just aren't gassing us quickly. We still have MONSANTO and Syngenta, Dow, Dupont, etc poisoning our food and land, and they are still dumping Fluoride in every water supply that they aren't explicitly stopped from dumping it in (and in some states that means EVERY city over 25,000). Who the hell are these criminals that allow that done to their own people to decide who else in the world is acting immorally? It's batshit crazy, and it has to stop NOW. If it takes Russia to stop it, then so be it. Someone has to - and we don't seem to be doing it.

                                                                            US "rule the planet for their own good" BS has been going on a long time now and people are still stupid enough to drink the war kool-aid.



                                                                            If anyone needs to be stopped - it's US.
                                                                            Signature

                                                                            Sal
                                                                            When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                                                                            Beyond the Path

                                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503154].message }}
                                                                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                                        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                        People here tend to follow the official message when it comes to Putin...the photos of him shirtless and jokes about his "tough guy" image. That image suits the people he represents. We've had similar leaders here with Reagan on horseback and Bush clearing scrub on his ranch. Now we have golf.

                                                                        We are encouraged to view Putin as a "clown" and that's a mistake. The man would not be where he is if he were not intelligent and savvy and manipulative. Those are the same traits we seem to value in our own leaders.

                                                                        I so agree with that. We have a habit of believing we are "above" other countries. We are encouraged to think all countries want democracy - and that we are the model that others strive for. It's not necessarily true. People who truly believe they are exceptional often don't see their own weaknesses and mistakes. If they are "the best" - how could what they want be wrong?
                                                                        WHO ever said democracy is peaceful or even good for the country?

                                                                        Unless the majority of people in the country are decent and have the best interest of the country at heart, democracy is a BAD thing!

                                                                        It would be better to have a altruistic dictator that would hand power only to someone else so inclined, then to have a democracy run by an angry mob.

                                                                        If a country in the middle east is decent, commits a few abuses, and the people are mostly for sharia, democracy should be the LAST thing we want for them! Let them have what they have! And most that disagree with me there do NOT like parts of sharia and campaigned HEAVILY against them in the US, so they should be with me here.

                                                                        Steve
                                                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8506588].message }}
                                                                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                                                                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                      Say what you will about him, but Putin understands what our foreign policy is really doing better then many in this country do.
                                                                      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...ria.html?_r=1&
                                                                      But Putin has no interest in doing anything that will lead to a win (diplomatically or otherwise) for the US. Obama is expendable, and got played for a sucker.

                                                                      Putin knows also what Assad is going through, while experiencing his own problems suppressing persistent Chechen rebels.

                                                                      With cunning like a fox, Putin shares a common objective with Obama in keeping the world safe for chemical-free warfare, but at the price of a growing Russian influence in the region.
                                                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8505154].message }}
                                                                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                                                        But Putin has no interest in doing anything that will lead to a win (diplomatically or otherwise) for the US. Obama is expendable, and got played for a sucker.

                                                                        Putin knows also what Assad is going through, while experiencing his own problems suppressing persistent Chechen rebels.

                                                                        With cunning like a fox, Putin shares a common objective with Obama in keeping the world safe for chemical-free warfare, but at the price of a growing Russian influence in the region.
                                                                        Like I said, say what you want, but Putin understands what our foreign policy is really doing better then many in this country do.
                                                                        Russia learned years ago in Afghanistan that using military force in the Middle East is not the way to gain influence there.
                                                                        If Russia's influence in the Middle East is growing, it's because they are going about it the right way.
                                                                        If you think about it Russia and the US have reversed their roles in the World. In the past Russia was the worlds bully and their country was going down the tubes. We used diplomatic solutions and worked on our problems here at home.
                                                                        Now we're the world bullies and our country is going down the tubes. Russia is using diplomacy and working on building up their country.
                                                                        Signature

                                                                        Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                        Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                        As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                        You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8506897].message }}
                                                                        • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                          Very good article about the military brainwashing in this country.
                                                                          The silent military coup that took over Washington | John Pilger | Comment is free | The Guardian
                                                                          Signature

                                                                          Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                          Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                          As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                          You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8507515].message }}
                                                                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                          If Russia's influence in the Middle East is growing, it's because they are going about it the right way.
                                                                          Really? Supporting and arming a ruthless regime which is responsible for a civil war that has resulted in over 100,000 deaths and millions of refugees is going about it the right way? LOl. Okie dokie.
                                                                          Signature
                                                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508246].message }}
                                                                          • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                                                                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                            Really? Supporting and arming a ruthless regime which is responsible for a civil war that has resulted in over 100,000 deaths and millions of refugees is going about it the right way? LOl. Okie dokie.
                                                                            I think it's safe to say that many places around the world view us as a ruthless regime.

                                                                            Not me though
                                                                            Signature

                                                                            Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

                                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508274].message }}
                                                                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                              Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post


                                                                              Not me though
                                                                              Glad to hear that Mike. Yeah, I can see others saying that about the US also, especially after Iraq. That certainly wasn't the right way to go about gaining influence either.
                                                                              Signature
                                                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508324].message }}
                                                                              • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                                                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                Glad to hear that Mike. Yeah, I can see others saying that about the US also, especially after Iraq. That certainly wasn't the right way to go about gaining influence either.
                                                                                I was against going in to Iraq then and I am against going in to Syria now. We can split hairs all day long on why one was justified and the other was not. My suspicion is you didn't support Iraq because Bush was president and you support bombing Syria because Obama wants it. Maybe that's not correct, but from reading your posts over the years it has always been obvious of your opinions on both of those presidents.

                                                                                I could be wrong, but frankly I see no difference. Even though the WMD justification proved to be false, Saddam was still a butcher who killed many MANY people. Why was that one any worse than what is being pushed now regarding Syria? Innocent people died in both countries...but we should not have gone to Iraq and I think we should stay out of Syria. Frankly, all that energy should be focused on fixing domestic issues...
                                                                                Signature

                                                                                Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

                                                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508509].message }}
                                                                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                                  Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

                                                                                  My suspicion is you didn't support Iraq because Bush was president and you support bombing Syria because Obama wants it. Maybe that's not correct...
                                                                                  Yeah, you are assuming a few things there that aren't correct. First, going back a bit further, I supported Bush in going into Afghanistan. Not to bring them freedom or democracy as Thom keeps saying, but to go after the people who attacked us a few times, including on 9-11. Some would like to ignore that happened and say we should just put out some sort of arrest warrant for Bin Laden and wait for him to get pulled over for speeding so we could put him on trial. I was more realistic and thought we had to go after him and his army. Now, after the initial invasion of Afghanistan the US totally bungled because of the decisions by our civilian leaders.

                                                                                  So, the fact that I supported Bush then kind of negates the "He's just following political loyalties" or however you want to put it.

                                                                                  Second, I've said a few times in this thread I'm not sure if we should strike Syria. I haven't seen the resolution and it really is such a mess it's hard to say what would happen. However, I have followed the war pretty closely and think the Assad government is a disgusting, ruthless, inhuman bunch of murderous thugs. From what I have read and seen I believe it was the Assad government who carried out the chemical weapons attack. I do think using chemical weapons as Assad apparently has is a very dangerous development and something should be done somehow. We have managed to stay out of this mess for 2 1/2 years even though there are many who wanted us to get involved since 2011.

                                                                                  Now, regarding the Iraq war, I was against it because a few reasons. I thought one war was enough and we hadn't killed Bin Laden or defeated Al Qaeda. I somehow didn't think it, the Afghanistan war, was going to be the piece of cake that others were saying. I remembered the Soviet war in Afghanistan. Also, from what I read back then Saddam hated Al Qaeda so it didn't seem likely there would be many of Bin Laden's people in Iraq then. We had a no fly zone over Iraq for years and I just didn't believe all that the prior admin was saying. In other words, I wasn't against it just because Bush was president. Heck, I was debating the 9-11 truther gang here so much back then people thought I was a Republican and Bush supporter. Lol.
                                                                                  Signature
                                                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508586].message }}
                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                    Not to bring them freedom or democracy as Thom keeps saying, but to go after the people who attacked us a few times, including on 9-11. Some would like to ignore that happened and say we should just put out some sort of arrest warrant for Bin Laden and wait for him to get pulled over for speeding so we could put him on trial. I was more realistic and thought we had to go after him and his army.
                                                                                    Yet we found Bin Laden in a different country and were able to take him out with a surgical strike.
                                                                                    His 'army' still exists and has spread into countries like Iraq and now Syria.
                                                                                    By the way Bin Laden WAS charged with murder and conspiracy to kill Americans in 1998, wonder why we didn't go after him then?
                                                                                    He was also indited with others for 9/11.
                                                                                    The reality is we have taken out all the leaders behind 9/11 with surgical strikes either like we did with Bin Laden or like we did with the other leaders with missiles and air strikes.
                                                                                    When Gaddafi was thought responsible for the flight 103 bombing what did we do? Reagan bombed his palace and tried to take him out. We never had a problem with Gaddafi after that. There was no need to invade a country to achieve justice.
                                                                                    So invading Afghanistan wasn't as necessary as people think and hasn't achieved any of the stated objectives, if taking out the people behind 9/11 was the real goal.
                                                                                    Signature

                                                                                    Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                                    Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                                    As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                                    You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508722].message }}
                                                                                    • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                      Yet we found Bin Laden in a different country and were able to take him out with a surgical strike...
                                                                                      When Gaddafi was thought responsible for the flight 103 bombing what did we do? Reagan bombed his palace and tried to take him out. We never had a problem with Gaddafi after that.
                                                                                      Two examples of what you are also against. Pakistan didn't give us permission to go in and get Bin Laden. Nobody said we had the right to bomb Gaddafi, which ended up killing an innocent infant. Yet, now you use them as examples to support your view. By the way, you got the story wrong. Reagan bombed Libya after the bombing of a German disco. Plus, it didn't stop the terrorism. In fact the bombing of flight 103 happened two years after we bombed his palace. :/
                                                                                      Signature
                                                                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508778].message }}
                                                                                      • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                        Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                        Two examples of what you are also against. Pakistan didn't give us permission to go in and get Bin Laden. Nobody said we had the right to bomb Gaddafi, which ended up killing an innocent infant. Yet, now you use them as examples to support your view. By the way, you got the story wrong. Reagan bombed Libya after the bombing of a German disco. Plus, it didn't stop the terrorism. In fact the bombing of flight 103 happened two years after we bombed his palace. :/
                                                                                        You're right on Libya, but wrong on those being examples of what I'm against. But even though we bombed Gaddaffi for the disco, American lives where lost in the disco bombing. So that is an example of us attacking the person we believed responsible for the taking of American lives.
                                                                                        I'm against the US invading countries and starting wars when we haven't been attacked or when there is no prove that an attack is eminent. I've always said we should go after those responsible for 9/11 and other terrorist acts, but that we should do so with pin point attacks and only target those responsible, if all other peaceful means fail.
                                                                                        By the way we where still able to get the two who where allegedly responsible for the bombing of flight 103 without invading anyone. We did it by going to the UN and getting strict sanctions against Libya.
                                                                                        Of course there's still the question about the Iranian passenger plane we shot down "claiming" it was a fighter jet, killing all 290 people on board. Some claim it was just payback for flight 103, which doesn't make us any better then them.
                                                                                        Signature

                                                                                        Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                                        Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                                        As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                                        You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508889].message }}
                                                                                        • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                                          But Thom, we did both of those attacks illegally according to you. You are only saying these were more worthy targets. Why? Bin Laden wasn't convicted. Either was Gaddafi.

                                                                                          It's a good point you make about these surgical strikes though that kept us from invading countries and putting boots on the ground. It certainly saved a lot of civilian lives. Hmm, surgical strikes that minimize civilian casualties. Interesting. How many civilians died in Iraq? I think it was at least 130,000. If only we had a way to keep from putting boots on the ground and minimizing civilian deaths. Hmmm

                                                                                          Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                          You're right on Libya, but wrong on those being examples of what I'm against. But even though we bombed Gaddaffi for the disco, American lives where lost in the disco bombing. So that is an example of us attacking the person we believed responsible for the taking of American lives.
                                                                                          I'm against the US invading countries and starting wars when we haven't been attacked or when there is no prove that an attack is eminent. I've always said we should go after those responsible for 9/11 and other terrorist acts, but that we should do so with pin point attacks and only target those responsible, if all other peaceful means fail.
                                                                                          By the way we where still able to get the two who where allegedly responsible for the bombing of flight 103 without invading anyone. We did it by going to the UN and getting strict sanctions against Libya.
                                                                                          Of course there's still the question about the Iranian passenger plane we shot down "claiming" it was a fighter jet, killing all 290 people on board. Some claim it was just payback for flight 103, which doesn't make us any better then them.
                                                                                          Signature
                                                                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508999].message }}
                                                                                          • Profile picture of the author garyv
                                                                                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post


                                                                                            It's a good point you make about these surgical strikes though that kept us from invading countries and putting boots on the ground. It certainly saved a lot of civilian lives. Hmm, surgical strikes that minimize civilian casualties. Interesting. How many civilians died in Iraq? I think it was at least 130,000. If only we had a way to keep from putting boots on the ground and minimizing civilian deaths. Hmmm

                                                                                            Surgical strikes don't work everywhere, like Mountainous areas, and cities where fighters are mixed in with civilians - ie - Iraq. Same reason the current admin didn't use them much in Afghanistan. A lot of civilians and troops were killed there as well. Plus the technology we're using with our drones now is a fairly new technology.
                                                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8509037].message }}
                                                                                          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                            But Thom, we did both of those attacks illegally according to you. You are only saying these were more worthy targets. Why? Bin Laden wasn't convicted. Either was Gaddafi.

                                                                                            It's a good point you make about these surgical strikes though that kept us from invading countries and putting boots on the ground. It certainly saved a lot of civilian lives. Hmm, surgical strikes that minimize civilian casualties. Interesting. How many civilians died in Iraq? I think it was at least 130,000. If only we had a way to keep from putting boots on the ground and minimizing civilian deaths. Hmmm
                                                                                            How where those strikes illegal according to me?
                                                                                            I've said right along that if America or American's are attacked or killed we should go after those we believe did it. I also always said we should go after the leaders or those directly responsible for the attacks.
                                                                                            I never even hinted we should of used any type of attacks in Iraq, because they didn't attack us first or where they about to attack us. By the way thanks to us invading Iraq, they now have Al Qaeda and other "terrorist" groups there, and hundreds of deaths a day.

                                                                                            Syria hasn't attacked us or is about to attack us either. So there is no reason for us to get involved there at all and that includes "surgical attacks". In fact Afghanistan and Yemen haven't attacked us.
                                                                                            By the way wasn't your party opposed to Iraq but in favor of invading Afghanistan?
                                                                                            Signature

                                                                                            Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                                            Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                                            As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                                            You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8509079].message }}
                                                                                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                                              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                              Syria hasn't attacked us or is about to attack us either. So there is no reason for us to get involved there at all and that includes "surgical attacks". In fact Afghanistan and Yemen haven't attacked us.
                                                                                              Pakistan didn't attack us either. Does that mean there is no reason for us to get involved there at all and that includes "surgical attacks" even if they kill OBL?

                                                                                              Afghanistan's leader's at the time were harboring the leader's of Al Qaeda, other Al Qaeda members, bases where they trained and didn't want to give them up. Yemen hasn't attacked us, but Al Qaeda in Yemen has attacked Yemen's civilians and Yemen's government has approved of the US using the drones. It's believed that the Pakistan government has done the same thing unofficially.

                                                                                              By the way wasn't your party opposed to Iraq but in favor of invading Afghanistan?
                                                                                              Yes in the house but no in the Senate. Even in the house there were a good number of aye votes though.
                                                                                              Signature
                                                                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8509185].message }}
                                                                                              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                                Pakistan didn't attack us either. Does that mean there is no reason for us to get involved there at all and that includes "surgical attacks" even if they kill OBL?

                                                                                                Afghanistan's leader's at the time were harboring the leader's of Al Qaeda, other Al Qaeda members, bases where they trained and didn't want to give them up. Yemen hasn't attacked us, but Al Qaeda in Yemen has attacked Yemen's civilians and Yemen's government has approved of the US using the drones. It's believed that the Pakistan government has done the same thing unofficially.



                                                                                                Yes in the house but no in the Senate. Even in the house there were a good number of aye votes though.
                                                                                                We didn't invade Pakistan did we? We went in got OBL and got out. I've been against invading Afghanistan and the drone attacks in Yemen because they are not going after people who have attacked us. We already got the people behind 9/11.
                                                                                                Yemen only supports our use of drones because of pressure from us (if they support the attacks at all). We're doing the same thing with our drone attacks there that you say Al Qaeda is doing. Why is that OK with you?
                                                                                                Read this article and watch the video to learn who the people of Yemen really feel about our drone attacks.
                                                                                                Here's a transcript.
                                                                                                FAREA AL-MUSLIMI: What Wessab's villagers knew of the U.S. was based on my stories about my wonderful experiences here. The friendships and values I experienced and described to the villagers helped them understand the America that I know and that I love. Now, however, when they think of America, they think of the terror they feel from the drones that hover over their heads, ready to fire missiles at any time. What the violent militants had previously failed to achieve, one drone strike accomplished in an instant. There is now an intense anger against America in Wessab.
                                                                                                This is not an isolated incident. The drone strikes are the face of America to many Yemenis. I have spoken to many victims of U.S. drone strikes, like a mother in Jaar who had to identify her innocent 18-year-old son's body through a video in a stranger's cellphone, or the father in Shaqra who held his four- and six-year-old children as they died in his arms. Recently in Aden, I spoke with one of the tribal leaders present in 2009 at the place where the U.S. cruise missiles targeted the village of al-Majalah in Lawdar, Abyan. More than 40 civilians were killed, including four pregnant women. The tribal leader and others tried to rescue the victims, but the bodies were so decimated that it was impossible to differentiate between those of children, women and their animals. Some of these innocent people were buried in the same grave as their animals.
                                                                                                Yemeni Activist Farea al-Muslimi Urges U.S. to Stop the Drone War on His Country | Democracy Now!
                                                                                                Signature

                                                                                                Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                                                Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                                                As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                                                You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8509258].message }}
                                                                                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                                                      Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                      Yet we found Bin Laden in a different country and were able to take him out with a surgical strike.
                                                                                      His 'army' still exists and has spread into countries like Iraq and now Syria.
                                                                                      By the way Bin Laden WAS charged with murder and conspiracy to kill Americans in 1998, wonder why we didn't go after him then?
                                                                                      He was also indited with others for 9/11.
                                                                                      The reality is we have taken out all the leaders behind 9/11 with surgical strikes either like we did with Bin Laden or like we did with the other leaders with missiles and air strikes.
                                                                                      When Gaddafi was thought responsible for the flight 103 bombing what did we do? Reagan bombed his palace and tried to take him out. We never had a problem with Gaddafi after that. There was no need to invade a country to achieve justice.
                                                                                      So invading Afghanistan wasn't as necessary as people think and hasn't achieved any of the stated objectives, if taking out the people behind 9/11 was the real goal.
                                                                                      I think the first I heard of him was 1993, when he tried to destroy the world trade center!
                                                                                      1993 World Trade Center bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                                                                                      Steve
                                                                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508782].message }}
                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
                                                                                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                    Yeah, you are assuming a few things there that aren't correct. First, going back a bit further, I supported Bush in going into Afghanistan. Not to bring them freedom or democracy as Thom keeps saying, but to go after the people who attacked us a few times, including on 9-11. Some would like to ignore that happened and say we should just put out some sort of arrest warrant for Bin Laden and wait for him to get pulled over for speeding so we could put him on trial. I was more realistic and thought we had to go after him and his army. Now, after the initial invasion of Afghanistan the US totally bungled because of the decisions by our civilian leaders.

                                                                                    So, the fact that I supported Bush then kind of negates the "He's just following political loyalties" or however you want to put it.
                                                                                    Well, for one thing, I did say I could be wrong. My opinion was based on your posts and opinions you have stated about these two over the past couple of years. Obviously I have not read them all...

                                                                                    I also think OBL case is different. He was directly responsible for the attacks and I was against the trial and all for going after him. But that is different than invading other countries under false pretenses, or to impose our will.

                                                                                    I agree with you about Afghanistan too.


                                                                                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post


                                                                                    Second, I've said a few times in this thread I'm not sure if we should strike Syria. I haven't seen the resolution and it really is such a mess it's hard to say what would happen. However, I have followed the war pretty closely and think the Assad government is a disgusting, ruthless, inhuman bunch of murderous thugs. From what I have read and seen I believe it was the Assad government who carried out the chemical weapons attack. I do think using chemical weapons as Assad apparently has is a very dangerous development and something should be done somehow. We have managed to stay out of this mess for 2 1/2 years even though there are many who wanted us to get involved since 2011.
                                                                                    Why do you suppose there were "many who wanted us to get involved since 2011", but now they all don't seem to support us anymore? What's changed?

                                                                                    Assad government may be disgusting, but it's still a civil war with (at the moment) no direct threat to the US. You could argue that they are a threat to allies, or COULD be a direct threat, but if we went to war against every one of these possible threats we'd be spread even thinner than we are now. We have to draw the line on being the world's cops (or bullies, depending on where you sit) at some point.

                                                                                    And as I said earlier... I suspect there are more than a few countries who think OUR government is disgusting and run by war criminals, etc. Some look at us as the terrorists. Sometimes I don't think they're all that far off. Some of these conflicts we get in to are simply for profit in some form. But the American people don't reap any benefit. Only the government and big business.


                                                                                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                    Now, regarding the Iraq war, I was against it because a few reasons. I thought one war was enough and we hadn't killed Bin Laden or defeated Al Qaeda. I somehow didn't think it, the Afghanistan war, was going to be the piece of cake that others were saying. I remembered the Soviet war in Afghanistan. Also, from what I read back then Saddam hated Al Qaeda so it didn't seem likely there would be many of Bin Laden's people in Iraq then. We had a no fly zone over Iraq for years and I just didn't believe all that the prior admin was saying. In other words, I wasn't against it just because Bush was president. Heck, I was debating the 9-11 truther gang here so much back then people thought I was a Republican and Bush supporter. Lol.
                                                                                    I agree here. But I don't think the rationale by our current admin is any better for going to war (or whatever) with Syria than the previous admins rationale was for hitting Iraq. Which is what prompted my earlier comment.

                                                                                    I don't pretend to be an expert in foreign affairs, or middle east policies, etc. I learn as I go and when a compelling argument is made I will change a viewpoint. But RIGHT NOW, I don't see any compelling reason to do anything militarily about Syria. I believe it will make things worse all around. Not better. Just because we are conditioned to believe how evil all these places are doesn't mean it's true. Or maybe they are evil, but not a direct threat to us or our allies. Could be perhaps, but "could be" is still not a compelling reason for me.
                                                                                    Signature

                                                                                    Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

                                                                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508945].message }}
                                                                          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                            Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                            Really? Supporting and arming a ruthless regime which is responsible for a civil war that has resulted in over 100,000 deaths and millions of refugees is going about it the right way? LOl. Okie dokie.
                                                                            No by not intervening with troops.
                                                                            How many Russian troops are fighting in the Middle East right now?

                                                                            I asked this once before and you ignored the question.
                                                                            Name one country we have used military force in in the Middle East that has resulted in freedom and democracy.

                                                                            By the way we have also supported ruthless regimes in the Middle East, supplied them with weapons and now are supplying the Terrorist groups in Syria with weapons.
                                                                            You seem to think we are the great saviors over there advancing freedom, well we're not. All we are advancing is war, killing innocent people, and hatred for America.
                                                                            Do you really think our going into countries and killing people over there is a good policy?
                                                                            Do you think our using White Phosphorus and depleted uranium in Iraq was a good idea?
                                                                            How about our drones and missiles killing children and wiping out whole villages?
                                                                            Signature

                                                                            Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                            Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                            As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                            You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508291].message }}
                                                                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                              Kuwait comes to mind.
                                                                              Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                              Name one country we have used military force in in the Middle East that has resulted in freedom and democracy.
                                                                              Signature
                                                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508391].message }}
                                                                              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                Kuwait comes to mind.
                                                                                Where we went in forced a ruler from another country out and left.
                                                                                A ruler who we had previously supported with weapons when he said he would attack Iran for us.
                                                                                Also we didn't go into Kuwait to help or force a regime change or did we go in to bring them freedom from their leaders or democracy.
                                                                                How have things worked out in Iran, Iraq, Libya, Yemen and Afghanistan? How has supplying weapons and training to the Taliban when they where fighting Russia in Afghanistan worked for us?
                                                                                Russia may be suppling Assad with weapons, but who was able to get him to admit to having chemical weapons and agreeing to turn them over in less then 24 hours?
                                                                                Like Putin said in his article, he doesn't really care who wins, but what is important is removing the chemical weapons so they can't fall into the hands of the terrorist. Where our plan to bomb Syria would of gave the terrorist an advantage in getting those weapons.
                                                                                Signature

                                                                                Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                                Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                                As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                                You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508432].message }}
                                                                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                                                  ...who was able to get him to admit to having chemical weapons and agreeing to turn them over in less then 24 hours?
                                                                                  That would be the USA. If it wasn't for our threat do you think they would have admitted having them and be talking about giving them up?
                                                                                  Signature
                                                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508456].message }}
                                                                                  • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                                                    Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                                                    That would be the USA. If it wasn't for our threat do you think they would have admitted having them and be talking about giving them up?
                                                                                    That's funny Tim. If anything Putin saved our butt from making a serious mistake. First without the approval of the UN security counsel we would of violated International Law. Second we weren't going to destroy the chemical weapons which would of made them available to terrorist groups if things went the way of the rebels and they won. Groups that would use those weapons on us and Russia. Third after Obama threatened Syria, Iran Syria and Hezballoh said they would retaliate with strikes against our bases, Israel and others.
                                                                                    Did you hear Syria admit to the weapons and offer to turn them over to the international community after our threat or after Putin talked to Assad?
                                                                                    Signature

                                                                                    Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                                                    Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                                                    As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                                                    You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508484].message }}
                                                        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                                          I didn't know who the "he" was that Steve was referring to. I thought that maybe he was referring to you, but after I re-read your post, I thought it couldn't be.

                                                          Maybe Steve will clear that up for us.

                                                          Terra
                                                          Earlier, the red line comment said that they WILL be punished. They spoke of strikes, etc... He LATER said he would ask congress. Tim lamented that he can't get ANYTHING passed with this congress, but said the war would likely go on. Where I a from, if you lament the fact that there is an obstacle, it generally means that you want to do what the obstacle is preventing you from doing.

                                                          So if you lament that congress won't approve the war, you want the war.

                                                          Steve
                                                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492869].message }}
                                                          • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                                            Earlier, the red line comment said that they WILL be punished. They spoke of strikes, etc... He LATER said he would ask congress. Tim lamented that he can't get ANYTHING passed with this congress, but said the war would likely go on. Where I a from, if you lament the fact that there is an obstacle, it generally means that you want to do what the obstacle is preventing you from doing.

                                                            So if you lament that congress won't approve the war, you want the war.

                                                            Steve
                                                            Good grief!
                                                            Signature
                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492887].message }}
                                                          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                                            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                                            Earlier, the red line comment said that they WILL be punished. They spoke of strikes, etc... He LATER said he would ask congress. Tim lamented that he can't get ANYTHING passed with this congress, but said the war would likely go on. Where I a from, if you lament the fact that there is an obstacle, it generally means that you want to do what the obstacle is preventing you from doing.

                                                            So if you lament that congress won't approve the war, you want the war.

                                                            Steve
                                                            Hmmm, the red line comment came from the president, not Tim. The president said he would ask congress, not Tim. The president does want to strike according to what he has said previously.

                                                            It is common knowledge that congress makes it difficult for the president to get anything through it, so I don't understand how Tim stating that fact makes him an advocate of this war. I also interpreted when Tim said that the war would go on, that he meant the civil war already going on over there would continue on.

                                                            I guess it's just that our thought processes differ?

                                                            Terra
                                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492927].message }}
                                                            • Profile picture of the author myob
                                                              Don't worry folks; the Syrian civil war will go on no matter what happens. There are US, British, and French warships in the area. And Russian reinforcements are on the way with munitions and supplies for Assad's forces.
                                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8493018].message }}
                                                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                Deleted comment - I think I crossed the line....my bad
                                                                Signature
                                                                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                                                I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8493448].message }}
                                                                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                  Pelosi just delivered a new official line...she claimed today this was the plan all along and is a "victory for the President".

                                                                  Ok, Nancy, whatever you say....
                                                                  Perhaps she is just being a forerunner for the president's speech tonight?

                                                                  Terra
                                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8493459].message }}
                                                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                    I was editing myself

                                                                    You may be right and I find I don't care if they rewrite history again - as long as they keep us from jumping into yet another war.
                                                                    Signature
                                                                    Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                                                    I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8493470].message }}
                                                                    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                      I was editing myself

                                                                      You may be right and I find I don't care if they rewrite history again - as long as they keep us from jumping into yet another war.
                                                                      Sorry.

                                                                      I'm with you on that one!

                                                                      Terra
                                                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8493483].message }}
                                                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                                              Hmmm, the red line comment came from the president, not Tim. The president said he would ask congress, not Tim. The president does want to strike according to what he has said previously.
                                                              YEAH, but *****TIM****** was lamenting obama not being able to authorize the strike!

                                                              Steve
                                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8494425].message }}
                                                              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                                A moment of sympathy, please, for the poor speech writer who is rewriting every 15 minutes today to keep up with the official analysis of what's happening in the world....and every 5 minutes to keep up with how we feel about it.:p That guy's gonna be tired tonight.
                                                                Signature
                                                                Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                                                I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8494671].message }}
                                                                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                                                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                                  A moment of sympathy, please, for the poor speech writer who is rewriting every 15 minutes today to keep up with the official analysis of what's happening in the world....and every 5 minutes to keep up with how we feel about it.:p That guy's gonna be tired tonight.
                                                                  Well, he's only got about 44 more minutes before the address. :p

                                                                  Terra
                                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8494680].message }}
                                                              • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                                Ummm. *************WRONG AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!****************

                                                                Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                                                                YEAH, but *****TIM****** was lamenting obama not being able to authorize the strike!

                                                                Steve
                                                                Signature
                                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8494751].message }}
                                          • Profile picture of the author LarryC
                                            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                                            I saw that I lost a few in my explanation, LOL. Reason 1 that I'm not a teacher:rolleyes:

                                            Okay - our instinct system is how the slip programming is installed. Take an idea, lets for this example that aliens lived here with their pet dinosaurs. Teach that to a kid. Every time that kid shows a positive belief in that idea, you positively sanction it...lets say they get a cookie. If they question the idea at all, they are hit a few times, later they are isolated from, rejected by their "pack" (family, friends, etc) for their statement. They start to look at speaking in opposition of aliens as a threat to their happiness, and stop expressing doubt to keep their place in a safe community. It starts to make them very uneasy (physical reactions start) when the subject is approached negatively and they start to avoid situations that questions the existence of aliens on the planet. If they see more negative sanctions against that idea (grounded, spanked, etc) they will get to a point their body reacts to the fear of the sanctions and their thinking just shuts down when they hear that aliens didn't exist. The idea has become attached to a fear reaction

                                            No matter how conclusive the evidence that aliens were never here - the person who has had a fear reaction programmed into that idea will see the threat in the messenger and lash out against them instead of considering the idea. Depending how strongly the fear reaction is instilled and in how many people it's instilled, you can use these reactions to kindle hate - and wars - and any other mass action you want.

                                            An example of a positively sanctioned idea is Pavlov's dogs - they were slip programmed to salivate any time they heard the bell.......same type of physical programming, this time for an idea, rather than against. The bell represented food - safety, comfort.

                                            Religious slip programming is so strong because you are dealing with fear of the unknown and fear of death. Not saying that all people who believe in a diety are slip programmed........but you can tell when talking to someone who is. Religious extremists (kill for deity, kill the sinner mindset) show extremely strong slip programming. You will see milder forms all over society. Mild forms are normal and just happen when socializing youth. Strong cases, such as religion, nationality are often a result of planned indoctrination - same idea, stronger scale.

                                            Strong cases are evident by how loudly someone screams against a messenger of an idea.
                                            Messenger: Today a secret document was reveal that proves government intentions to........
                                            Slip programmed response: STUPID, CRAZY IDIOT, PARANOID NUT CASE.............

                                            Notice the messenger didn't even really need to say what the government intentions were before the reaction started. For people who are religious extremists (or gov, etc), just the mention of the name of the other religion, gov can set them off and shut them down.

                                            It doesn't matter what the idea is, if there is a word or phrase, etc, that you act automatically to by refusing to listen to anything further about it - it may be slip programming. I used to automatically think a woman who would drink beer in public was moronic trash and refused to associate with them at all. If you started to tell me that "She said this...." I would automatically stop the talker and tell them the woman was a moron and didn't want to hear any more. That was a little piece of slip programming I got from the way I was raised. Women were NOT to drink beer. Tank out on wine or vodka, fine - but beer drinking made you a totally idiotic, slobbed out, repulsive tramp. To this day, even after being able to ditch such a stupid piece of programming, I still don't drink beer. LOL.

                                            If you ever find yourself renouncing an idea -- or especially if you go after the messenger themselves, you might want to rethink why you reacted negatively before really considering evidence. It's usually slip programming. People react to the idea of slip programming itself, simply because it's called "programming" and people don't like the idea of their mind being "programmed" - even though the very act of learning words is a form of biological programming in itself (instinctual).
                                            That certainly happens all the time, but isn't what you're calling slip programming just another name for operant conditioning, which is part of the behaviorist school of psychology? Skinner, for example, is a big influence on modern education, parenting and even the legal system.

                                            Operant Conditioning - Introduction to Operant Conditioning
                                            Signature
                                            Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
                                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8488636].message }}
                                            • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                              Potentially important development here:

                                              The Russian foreign minister says Moscow will push Syria to place its chemical weapons under international control.
                                              Russia To Push Syria To Put Chemical Weapons Under International Control
                                              Signature
                                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8488942].message }}
                                              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                                Originally Posted by TimPhelan View Post

                                                That could be a win, win, win, situation.
                                                A win for Russia for defusing the situation.
                                                A win for Syria in diverting an attack from us.
                                                A win for us in not going to war, again.
                                                Signature

                                                Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                                Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                                As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                                You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8488991].message }}
                                                • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                                  That could be a win, win, win, situation.
                                                  A win for Russia for defusing the situation.
                                                  A win for Syria in diverting an attack from us.
                                                  A win for us in not going to war, again.
                                                  Yes, and Kerry said today this would be a way for Assad to resolve the situation.
                                                  Signature
                                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8489010].message }}
                                                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                                                    Kerry first mentioned surrendering the chemical weapons in response to a reporter's question about what Syria could do to avoid a U.S. attack.

                                                    Then the President said that wasn't on the table and Kerry walked it back with a comment that we couldn't trust Syria to provide all the weapons.

                                                    I think Russia is calling Kerry's bluff. It's a good call and a potential solution or at least a dialing back of the tensions.

                                                    Edit: Just turned on the news and heard a similar comment to what I said above.

                                                    One problem we have at the moment is too many people at the top talking too much at the same time. Kerry makes a comment - Pres makes a a different one - State Dept comes out with an explanation of what Kerry said - Kerry backs it down. They need to all shut up long enough to get the story straight. They appear to be dithering - not helpful.
                                                    Signature
                                                    Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                                                    I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8489157].message }}
                                                    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


                                                      One problem we have at the moment is too many people at the top talking too much at the same time. Kerry makes a comment - Pres makes a a different one - State Dept comes out with an explanation of what Kerry said - Kerry backs it down. They need to all shut up long enough to get the story straight. They appear to be dithering - not helpful.
                                                      LOL, Kay!

                                                      I feel your frustration and I just have to say, it's not the first time they've done this and I'm sure it won't be the last.

                                                      Talking heads are kind of prone to that. I think that's why they're called talking heads and meat puppets.

                                                      Terra
                                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8489439].message }}
                                                      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
                                                        I'm not sure what is going on with this latest story. Hillary Clinton just made a statement calling a potential weapons handover an important step and a white house spokesman said they would have to take a hard look at the Russian proposal. I haven't seen anything about the President saying it was "off the table". Yet.
                                                        Signature
                                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8489726].message }}
                                                    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                                                      Kerry first mentioned surrendering the chemical weapons in response to a reporter's question about what Syria could do to avoid a U.S. attack.

                                                      Then the President said that wasn't on the table and Kerry walked it back with a comment that we couldn't trust Syria to provide all the weapons.

                                                      I think Russia is calling Kerry's bluff. It's a good call and a potential solution or at least a dialing back of the tensions.

                                                      Edit: Just turned on the news and heard a similar comment to what I said above.

                                                      One problem we have at the moment is too many people at the top talking too much at the same time. Kerry makes a comment - Pres makes a a different one - State Dept comes out with an explanation of what Kerry said - Kerry backs it down. They need to all shut up long enough to get the story straight. They appear to be dithering - not helpful.
                                                      The government is like the bloviating idiot speaking at the beginning of this clip. They SHOULD have been, FROM DAY ONE, like the person he was speaking to:


                                                      Like the person he was speaking to, we end up the worse for it!

                                                      Steve
                                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8489746].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                              Originally Posted by myob View Post

                              ... They find it more emotionally appealing to believe there are shadowy groups controlling events than to accept that the world can just be so wild and weird. The idea that nobody is in control is just too terrifying for them. However, their wild imaginations really do bring up some fascinating stuff. Learn to feed into it, and you'll make a killing.
                              You have successfully downgraded my "wild" imaginations to "mild" imaginations and as a writer, I'm not sure how I feel about that. :p

                              Terra
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485394].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                Lets see we used Agent Orange and Napalm in Viet Nam.
                                Depleted Uranium and White Phosphorus in Iraq.
                                Our argument is we didn't use them against civilians. Same claim we make with our unmanned drone attacks that kill civilians and children. Yet many civilians where killed or mutilated by them and the aftermath has caused numerous birth defects.
                                So where's the outrage over all that?
                                The only good news I'm hearing about Syria is the politicians are listening to the voters and it looks like they will vote down an attack.
                                Signature

                                Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485592].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                                  .
                                  Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                  Lets see we used Agent Orange and Napalm in Viet Nam.
                                  Depleted Uranium and White Phosphorus in Iraq.
                                  Our argument is we didn't use them against civilians. Same claim we make with our unmanned drone attacks that kill civilians and children. Yet many civilians where killed or mutilated by them and the aftermath has caused numerous birth defects.
                                  So where's the outrage over all that?
                                  The only good news I'm hearing about Syria is the politicians are listening to the voters and it looks like they will vote down an attack.
                                  Well, none of that really fits the idea of a chemical agent in WWI, which is to kill via the product itself like a poisonous gas or nerve toxin. They also persist and spread.

                                  Agent orange touches on that, but they CLAIMED they didn't know. They CLAIMED to use it to clear the field.

                                  OH, I meant to say! The military is supposed to be 80%+ AGAINST the war. Civilians are supposedly 66-91% AGAINST the war. The senate, that has VOTED is apparently a bit over 50% AGAINST! The house, that has VOTED is apparently about 84% AGAINST the war. The senate and house have enough undecideds to swing it either way. BTW Obama has CAPPED the military's standard raise at about HALF that mandated by law! GEE, I never heard that he capped everyone ELSE'S raise!

                                  Steve
                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485643].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author myob
                                Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                                You have successfully downgraded my "wild" imaginations to "mild" imaginations and as a writer, I'm not sure how I feel about that. :p

                                Terra

                                If it would help make you feel better, take comfort in the fact that the US government has been exploiting the wild imagination of conspiracy theorists to hide the truth for many years. For example, the news "leak" of nuke movements out of Dyess Air Force Base alleged by the OP was carefully orchestrated and choreographed for CT consumption.

                                This was to draw attention away from the real mission; departure of B-2 stealth bombers to forward bases near the planned strike zone to answer threats of interference by Iran, Hezbollah, and Russia. I hope you never lose your wild imagination. Our nation's global agenda is dependent upon a highly imaginative populace.

                                Just in, leaked from high level US government sources:
                                US Government Exploiting Dufus Conspiracy Theorists to Hide Advanced Aircraft Research - MYOB International
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485905].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                                  Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                  If it would help make you feel better, take comfort in the fact that the US government has been exploiting the wild imagination of conspiracy theorists to hide the truth for many years. For example, the news "leak" of nuke movements out of Dyess Air Force Base alleged by the OP was carefully orchestrated and choreographed for CT consumption.

                                  This was to draw attention away from the real mission; departure of B-2 stealth bombers to forward bases near the planned strike zone to answer threats of interference by Iran, Hezbollah, and Russia. I hope you never lose your wild imagination. Our nation's global agenda is dependent upon a highly imaginative populace.

                                  Just in, leaked from high level US government sources:
                                  US Government Exploiting Dufus Conspiracy Theorists to Hide Advanced Aircraft Research - MYOB International
                                  Haha! Now that's funny!

                                  But as for the rest of your post, I would have a link for you too, except, well, during my absence, the thread it was in was apparently nuked.

                                  Anyway, I said I don't defend conspiracy theories or their conspirators, however, I think it extremely gullible to believe everything out of the camp at one end of the spectrum and completely discount everything from the other end.

                                  I believe it wise to investigate all reports all along the spectrum to be able to come to an educated decision in what one would believe.

                                  I'm sorry to disappoint you in saying my wild imaginations won't be feeding our nation's global agenda. But my wild imaginations feed the need for entertainment and fun. And c'mon, admit it, you wouldn't have me any other way. :p

                                  Seriously though, yes, there have been some nut job conspiracy theories and there have been some smooth talking governmental leaders that both ended up being detrimental to their blind followers and even some who saw through their facade, but couldn't get anyone to listen to them. History is full of examples.

                                  I support doing due diligence.

                                  Terra
                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8486956].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
                                    Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post


                                    Seriously though, yes, there have been some nut job conspiracy theories and there have been some smooth talking governmental leaders that both ended up being detrimental to their blind followers and even some who saw through their facade, but couldn't get anyone to listen to them. History is full of examples.

                                    I support doing due diligence.

                                    Terra


                                    Governmental and detrimental, that absolutely made my evening.
                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8487033].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      Originally Posted by AeroBuilders View Post

                      I say no thanks to the propaganda....I leave those mentalities and "tricks" to you guys!

                      I support our troops and say NO MORE UNCONSTITUTIONAL WARS!
                      Thank you for your military service, AB, but come on now! You should know that propaganda and disinformation are used by all sides in wars. And the Russians, Iranians, Chinese etc are all worthy contenders against the best of us. I don't want to have to pull rank on you sir, but having been "involved" with nuclear weapons convoys, you do know for a simple example that high profile weapons transfer does require lots of diversion including propaganda. Regarding developments in Syria, we are apparently seeing some very good techniques being used against us.

                      I think the plan for Syria is "punitive" strikes, not to take Assad completely out. Just leave him denuded and ready for whatever the rebels and Syrian people themselves decide to do on their own. One of the key pieces of the strategy would be to take out Assad's delivery systems for chemical weapons by striking at his airplanes, missile sites, and rocket launchers. Also support systems such as fuel dumps, airfields, maintenance centers, are vulnerable and easily targeted. Israel once did that before lunch.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477494].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        Thank you for your military service, AB, but come on now! You should know that propaganda and disinformation are used by all sides in wars. And the Russians, Iranians, Chinese etc are all worthy contenders against the best of us. I don't want to have to pull rank on you sir, but having been "involved" with nuclear weapons convoys, you do know for a simple example that high profile weapons transfer does require lots of diversion including propaganda. Regarding developments in Syria, we are apparently seeing some very good techniques being used against us.

                        I think the plan for Syria is "punitive" strikes, not to take Assad completely out. Just leave him denuded and ready for whatever the rebels and Syrian people themselves decide to do on their own. One of the key pieces of the strategy would be to take out Assad's delivery systems for chemical weapons by striking at his airplanes, missile sites, and rocket launchers. Also support systems such as fuel dumps, airfields, maintenance centers, are vulnerable and easily targeted. Israel once did that before lunch.
                        In a logical world, lacking Globalist Wealth Entity manipulation, I could see your points exactly....unfortunately, this is not the world we live in. The Globalist Wealth Entities, and their in motion agendas, are so heinous most just can't understand what we are up against.....they have no real context to understand. Most people do not have the life experiences and/or exposure to these agendas, so the realities are impossible to believe when presented. All I can say is, I really hope there is a massive awakening in this country and very soon....most of the citizenry will be horrified by these Globalist Wealth Entities future plans.

                        BTW, here is one of THEIR disgusting handlers.....

                        » Sen Graham Warns of Nuke Strike After Missing Warheads Report Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!


                        "Sen Lindsey Graham has warned of a nuclear strike in S Carolina following the report by Alex Jones and Anthony Gucciardi about low key nuke transfer from Texas to South Carolina."

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bJQlTXinns#t=271
                        Signature

                        Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

                        Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477620].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        Thank you for your military service, AB, but come on now! You should know that propaganda and disinformation are used by all sides in wars. And the Russians, Iranians, Chinese etc are all worthy contenders against the best of us. I don't want to have to pull rank on you sir, but having been "involved" with nuclear weapons convoys, you do know for a simple example that high profile weapons transfer does require lots of diversion including propaganda. Regarding developments in Syria, we are apparently seeing some very good techniques being used against us.

                        I think the plan for Syria is "punitive" strikes, not to take Assad completely out. Just leave him denuded and ready for whatever the rebels and Syrian people themselves decide to do on their own. One of the key pieces of the strategy would be to take out Assad's delivery systems for chemical weapons by striking at his airplanes, missile sites, and rocket launchers. Also support systems such as fuel dumps, airfields, maintenance centers, are vulnerable and easily targeted. Israel once did that before lunch.
                        If israel worked like the US does now, they would have been dead LONG ago! If they change, the people will likely kill the leaders and replace them. And the arabs KNOW that! THAT is why they haven't REALLY tried to get rid of israel. They have jets, fuel, weapons, etc.... but are sitting on their hands. As I predicted about 30+ years ago, when the attack/bluster ratio, in the us, was this low, they see the US as a different target. And Israel has a definite direct reason. WE DON'T. So HEY, let ISRAEL do it!

                        I heard of one quick war, or whatever, they had with a country. I THINK it was iraq. They sent drones to the country, the country locked on the drones, and shot them down. Israel then sent missiles to hit the radar stations, that the drones spotted when the enemy got a lock on them. QUICK, EASY, SAFE, for BOTH sides, etc.... The REASON was that the country planned to shoot down Israeli planes, and were building a massive radar array. This attack set them back SUBSTANTIALLY, and left them something to consider.

                        Steve
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477679].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          you were never involved with nuclear weapons convoys - I was
                          No, I never drove a truck in a convoy. My own experience in the past was working with people who built the bombs, managed the risk, were on the national emergency response teams, and working with scientists who used nuclear materials in their research. More recently I talk to family members in three branches of the military...and to my son who is former military, former DOD, former FBI and currently an SA with another "alphabet" agency.

                          Contrary to your opinion, you aren't the only smart person in the room. Tone it down and use reason and logic rather than rhetoric and condescension and you might find others basically agree with you.
                          Signature
                          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                          I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8478712].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author myob
                          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

                          I heard of one quick war, or whatever, they had with a country. I THINK it was iraq. They sent drones to the country, the country locked on the drones, and shot them down. Israel then sent missiles to hit the radar stations, that the drones spotted when the enemy got a lock on them. QUICK, EASY, SAFE, for BOTH sides, etc.... The REASON was that the country planned to shoot down Israeli planes, and were building a massive radar array. This attack set them back SUBSTANTIALLY, and left them something to consider.

                          Steve
                          I don't remember hearing about that one, but Israel has a long history of making strikes on Syria. Earlier this year, Israel pre-emptively blew up an arms convoy out of Syria on it its way to Lebanon carrying Russian surface-to-air missiles for Hezbollah. And in 2004, a shipment of fissionable material from North Korea "blew up" with Syrian nuclear technicians on board. In addition, Israel wiped out Syria's nuclear reactor in 2007. That same year, Israel attacked a Syrian facility which was undergoing testing to weaponise a Scud-C missile with mustard gas. These guys really do know how to play rough.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8478997].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                            Originally Posted by myob View Post

                            I don't remember hearing about that one, but Israel has a long history of making strikes on Syria. Earlier this year, Israel pre-emptively blew up an arms convoy out of Syria on it its way to Lebanon carrying Russian surface-to-air missiles for Hezbollah. And in 2004, a shipment of fissionable material from North Korea "blew up" with Syrian nuclear technicians on board. In addition, Israel wiped out Syria's nuclear reactor in 2007. That same year, Israel attacked a Syrian facility which was undergoing testing to weaponise a Scud-C missile with mustard gas. These guys really do know how to play rough.
                            Israel regularly attacks Syria and Syria does nothing.

                            Iran does nothing to help Syria.

                            So if we attack Syria all hell is supposed to break loose?



                            6 major players who turned Syria into a proxy war nightmare:

                            http://www.salon.com/2013/09/06/thes...y_war_partner/
                            Signature

                            "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8479056].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                              Israel regularly attacks Syria and Syria does nothing.

                              Iran does nothing to help Syria.

                              So if we attack Syria all hell is supposed to break loose?



                              6 major players who turned Syria into a proxy war nightmare:

                              6 major players who turned Syria into a proxy war nightmare - Salon.com
                              It certainly will for the Christians living there.
                              Remember any attack by us will aide the rebels.
                              Syrian rebels with ties to al-Qaeda attack Christian village under government control | National Post

                              Syria: Al Qaeda-Linked Rebels Target Christians

                              Death, Destruction and Extremism: Are Syrian Christians Doomed if Rebel Fighters Seize Control? | TheBlaze.com

                              Here's the video from the article Steve posted.
                              Signature

                              Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                              Getting old ain't for sissy's
                              As you are I was, as I am you will be
                              You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8479196].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author socialentry
                                Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                She looks good from behind.
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8479211].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
                                That lady is wasting her time...McPAIN is a globalist puppet (useful idiot minion) that will never conduct HONORABLE activities. He wants war so bad he is about to pick up a gun and go off by himself...LOL!

                                BTW, here are the friends of McPAIN he mentioned to the lady in the video....

                                Jon Soltz: McCain Poses With Alleged Terrorists -- Proof That Involvement in Syria Is a Bad Idea
                                Signature

                                Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

                                Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8479246].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                  Originally Posted by AeroBuilders View Post

                                  That lady is wasting her time...McPAIN is a globalist puppet (useful idiot minion) that will never conduct HONORABLE activities. He wants war so bad he is about to pick up a gun and go off by himself...LOL!

                                  BTW, here are the friends of McPAIN he mentioned to the lady in the video....

                                  Jon Soltz: McCain Poses With Alleged Terrorists -- Proof That Involvement in Syria Is a Bad Idea
                                  You could tell that by his reply.
                                  On the news today they showed a couple town hall meetings with reps. who want to strike in Syria. Nobody at either one supported us attacking Syria.
                                  I know I haven't found anyone who support an attack, and that includes my Hawk friends.
                                  Two of my Congressmen (R&D) are opposed to it and have been vocal in their opposition. They have also asked through FB and Emails what their constituents want and every response is "don't get involved".
                                  Interesting is both of my Senators are being extremely quite without a mention of Syria on their FB pages or websites. Not even an interview on TV. But their FB pages are covered with comments telling them to vote no on an attack. Their silence speaks volumes though as they both support the President no matter what the issue is. The problem is both have claimed to be doing the will of the people since they where elected (one is a career politician the other is in her second term) and claiming they always listen to what the people want.
                                  Personally I don't see this passing both houses.
                                  Signature

                                  Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                  Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                  As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                  You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8479328].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                                    Originally Posted by ThomM View Post

                                    You could tell that by his reply.
                                    On the news today they showed a couple town hall meetings with reps. who want to strike in Syria. Nobody at either one supported us attacking Syria.
                                    I know I haven't found anyone who support an attack, and that includes my Hawk friends.
                                    Two of my Congressmen (R&D) are opposed to it and have been vocal in their opposition. They have also asked through FB and Emails what their constituents want and every response is "don't get involved".
                                    Interesting is both of my Senators are being extremely quite without a mention of Syria on their FB pages or websites. Not even an interview on TV. But their FB pages are covered with comments telling them to vote no on an attack. Their silence speaks volumes though as they both support the President no matter what the issue is. The problem is both have claimed to be doing the will of the people since they where elected (one is a career politician the other is in her second term) and claiming they always listen to what the people want.
                                    Personally I don't see this passing both houses.
                                    I've heard a few in favor.........but then they went on to talk about how we should just turn the whole middle east into glass...........so......um, I'm not sure I'd really qualify those two as just public opinion in favor of strike -.:rolleyes:.

                                    I saw an article that said one rep - can't remember and can't find it now - anyway, one rep said that if Congress gives the okay for the strike they'll be going against the largest amount of objection ever in the history of the country -- more than against the bailout. I remember the bailout - it was something like 80 someodd% against - reps received over 50 million letters/emails, etc to say no to that one. The bailout was a coup -- what is it after a coup when the will of the people is totally ignored.........and........
                                    Will they be jailing military that refuse to fight for them like they did during Nam? I'm seeing more and more messages, videos, letters to congress, etc from troops who refuse and are completely enraged about it.

                                    Methinks that our admin has opened a can of worms that they expected to contain peaches. This could really get ugly. I would also like to know what the coercion is for a rep to vote for a strike when they know it could full well cost them their career. What would make them vote against almost all of their constituents?
                                    Signature

                                    Sal
                                    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                                    Beyond the Path

                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8479693].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                                      The hawks I know are just tired of us going in to Middle East countries and leaving them worse off then what the where.
                                      I look at us fighting in the Middle East as the same as pulling weeds in your garden. Unless you get ALL the roots, all you're doing is cultivating more weeds.
                                      Signature

                                      Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                                      Getting old ain't for sissy's
                                      As you are I was, as I am you will be
                                      You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480052].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                              Israel regularly attacks Syria and Syria does nothing.

                              Iran does nothing to help Syria.

                              So if we attack Syria all hell is supposed to break loose?



                              6 major players who turned Syria into a proxy war nightmare:

                              6 major players who turned Syria into a proxy war nightmare - Salon.com
                              The fonz once gave richie lessons on how to intimidate and "BE COOL". THEY DIDN'T WORK!!!!!!!! They ******DIDN'T****** work. The fonz said something like "OH YEAH, you FIRST need to have a reputation!".

                              The US USED to have such a reputation, but threw it in the toilet in the 70s. They have lately been doing the same. THAT is why the terrorists feel so free with us now. Did you hear about "Nidal Hasan"? I mean he PROUDLY declared, AT HIS TRIAL, that he was the one shooting, etc.... As near as I can figure, he figures he will spread sharia, free others to do the same, and get off like so many have on some technicality. There are about 6 ways he can keep from being executed, and about 4 ways he can get out. And the military DEMANDS automatic appeals, so he has PLENTY of time for either. It is like the 9 lives said of a cat. He had 7 ways to keep from being executed, and the trial cost him ONE. I wonder how many appeals he gets!

                              If ISRAEL attacks them, we are just an enemy by proxy. They KNOW Israel won't back down. THEY are fighting for their LIVES! HEY! If you want a war, you can go THERE. I bet they would LOVE to give people a chance to fight the arabs.

                              Steve
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8479200].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
      Originally Posted by Lewis T View Post

      There's definitely a cause for concern. Obama wouldn't just wake up, drink some coffee and decide that he's going to order nuclear warheads to be moved around from state to state for no reason.
      That is assuming Globalist puppet presidents have FULL control over all military operations. Those who handle the executive branch and those who handle the Pentagon can be out of alignment....this is a byproduct of the citizenry no longer in control of their govt.
      Signature

      Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

      Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8475248].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    BTW, Hannity, one of the ones on fox that I said makes it CLEAR he is conservative, and not republican, says the nation is against the war, HE is against the war, PUTIN says it would be more trouble, moderate rebels say it would be worse, and that the DC swtchboard is getting 498 calls AGAINST the war for every 2 they get for it.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8476944].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Did any of you see this?

      Service members anonymously protest potential war against Syria

      What are your thoughts on this one?

      Terra
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477004].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Did any of you see this?

        Service members anonymously protest potential war against Syria

        What are your thoughts on this one?

        Terra
        The DOD will look up the metadata of the jpeg or the IP addresses of the culprit and prosecute the 'anonymous' members.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477033].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author seasoned
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        Did any of you see this?

        Service members anonymously protest potential war against Syria

        What are your thoughts on this one?

        Terra
        In answer to your question, I have heard claims that 80%+ of the military does NOT want to fight in a syrian war.

        The PTB can say all they want, but it is customary that an ACT OF WAR starts a war! SOMETIMES there may be a localized attack that is because of a concern started by the other side AGAINST YOU, and there is generally a diplomatic discussion FIRST, and it is called an invasion, or something similar, or there may be an act not responded to past a certain point, and it is called a conflict, but EXPECT WAR in a case like this. And WHY?

        Steve
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477455].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author seasoned
          Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

          In answer to your question, I have heard claims that 80%+ of the military does NOT want to fight in a syrian war.

          The PTB can say all they want, but it is customary that an ACT OF WAR starts a war! SOMETIMES there may be a localized attack that is because of a concern started by the other side AGAINST YOU, and there is generally a diplomatic discussion FIRST, and it is called an invasion, or something similar, or there may be an act not responded to past a certain point, and it is called a conflict, but EXPECT WAR in a case like this. And WHY?

          Steve
          BTW I meant to clarify this, but the military I was speaking of was the US! Sometimes things go TOO far and even soldiers with commendations that have been to a lot of wars, that are CAREER officers, say ENOUGH! It seems like the US military is to that point on some fronts.

          Don't get me wrong, if the US or a strong or big ally is attacked, the US might attack like a swarm of hornets. And real reaction time, publicized as around 22 minutes, LIK, could be SECONDS. The 22minutes is worst case, and likely targets may be surrounded by missiles and not even know it. Under the right circumstances, they have been like killer bees. I'm just saying that there IS a time when reason just dictates that we either don't know enough or it isn't worth it.

          Steve
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8478748].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

            BTW I meant to clarify this, but the military I was speaking of was the US! Sometimes things go TOO far and even soldiers with commendations that have been to a lot of wars, that are CAREER officers, say ENOUGH! It seems like the US military is to that point on some fronts.

            Don't get me wrong, if the US or a strong or big ally is attacked, the US might attack like a swarm of hornets. And real reaction time, publicized as around 22 minutes, LIK, could be SECONDS. The 22minutes is worst case, and likely targets may be surrounded by missiles and not even know it. Under the right circumstances, they have been like killer bees. I'm just saying that there IS a time when reason just dictates that we either don't know enough or it isn't worth it.

            Steve
            Thanks, Steve.

            I've heard that a lot of soldiers were against striking Syria which leads me to wonder...

            Warning: I sometimes walk the line of sanity and wild imaginations. :p

            ...to wonder what would happen if the military sat down and refused to fight if a war were declared. Not just in Syria, but anywhere, anytime.

            Terra
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8478835].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author LarryC
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Thanks, Steve.

              I've heard that a lot of soldiers were against striking which leads me to wonder...

              Warning: I sometimes walk the line of sanity and wild imaginations. :p

              ...to wonder what would happen if the military sat down and refused to fight if a war were declared. Not just in Syria, but anywhere, anytime.

              Terra
              I am hopeful this will happen soon. Why should they want to fight one futile war after another, especially considering the treatment they get when they return home (those who make it)? Many Iraq vets are now homeless and/or unemployed, not to mention suffering from all kinds of stress related disorders.

              The only way they can keep orchestrating these wars is if people keep cooperating. If the armed forces -of all nations, not just the U.S.- stopped agreeing to fight (except to actually defend their countries), this nonsense could not continue.
              Signature
              Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8478959].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    I COULD show coulter on hannity. Alas, "too political". Again, they are against it.

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8477580].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    FAUX (FOX) News - just another corporate controlled mainstream media "script readers" tool.....like MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, MSN, Yahoo....etc.
    BTW, Hannity, one of the ones on fox that I said makes it CLEAR he is conservative, and not republican, says the nation is against the war, HE is against the war, PUTIN says it would be more trouble, moderate rebels say it would be worse, and that the DC swtchboard is getting 498 calls AGAINST the war for every 2 they get for it.

    Not to de-rail the thread and go on a "marketing" rant,
    but I wanted to share a few quick thoughts I have had
    recently while watching various news channels.

    1. Yes, most of them are corporate-controlled and after
    profits. (And those that are not are bloody boring!)

    2. Fox is indeed a propaganda machine, but they are a
    very, very good one. They did it right first, and others
    like MSNBC are just trying to copy their model for success.
    What's so wrong with that?

    3. News personalities are very interesting... While Sean Hannity
    seems to be a "true believer" and a zealot, Bill O'Reilly
    is more like a hired gun, a mercenary who works for the
    highest bidder. I don't know that Hannity would be effective
    working at a different car dealership, but O'Reilly is
    the consummate sales master, and would be just as effective
    and influential if he were working for the other side.
    Love him or hate him, if you are in sales & marketing
    O'Reilly is worth watching and studying. Watch how he handles
    facts, lies & contradictions, and especially his interviews and monologues.
    Seriously, it's rare that most people will get to watch
    a Master Closer work his craft on a daily basis.


    (Sorry for interupting your political discussions with marketing BS.
    Mods, If this is the wrong forum please don't ban me, just delete it!)




    New poll in the news today.............

    Poll: Majority Of Americans Approve Of Sending Congress To Syria | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
    I wish would could have sent this guy...
    All of the Middle East would have surrendered!



    Not only are you folks getting way over the "no politics" line, you've stepped right into some of the sloppiest thinking I've seen in years.
    I used to run a couple of political sites, and I've found that some
    of the most intelligent people I've ever known get very sloppy when
    it comes to anything political. (This includes me, although I hardly
    consider myself among "the most intelligent people I've ever known")


    The fact that someone questions a single assumption, or one aspect of your commentary, does not mean they actively oppose your entire position. Or even part of it.
    I think I'm about to adapt & adopt this for my signature on across about 100 forums...


    If you treat intelligent people like intransigent children and they don't lash back, that is an admirable sort of restraint.
    Indeed.



    Ha! Can you hear the stampede to get armored ear muffs around the world?
    More likely just plastic covers for their cars?

    Signature

    The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

    ...A tachyon enters a bar.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480212].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Not to de-rail the thread and go on a "marketing" rant,
      but I wanted to share a few quick thoughts I have had
      recently while watching various news channels.

      1. Yes, most of them are corporate-controlled and after
      profits. (And those that are not are bloody boring!)

      2. Fox is indeed a propaganda machine, but they are a
      very, very good one. They did it right first, and others
      like MSNBC are just trying to copy their model for success.
      What's so wrong with that?

      3. News personalities are very interesting... While Sean Hannity
      seems to be a "true believer" and a zealot, Bill O'Reilly
      is more like a hired gun, a mercenary who works for the
      highest bidder. I don't know that Hannity would be effective
      working at a different car dealership, but O'Reilly is
      the consummate sales master, and would be just as effective
      and influential if he were working for the other side.
      Love him or hate him, if you are in sales & marketing
      O'Reilly is worth watching and studying. Watch how he handles
      facts, lies & contradictions, and especially his interviews and monologues.
      Seriously, it's rare that most people will get to watch
      a Master Closer work his craft on a daily basis.


      (Sorry for interupting your political discussions with marketing BS.
      Mods, If this is the wrong forum please don't ban me, just delete it!)






      I wish would could have sent this guy...
      All of the Middle East would have surrendered!





      I used to run a couple of political sites, and I've found that some
      of the most intelligent people I've ever known get very sloppy when
      it comes to anything political. (This includes me, although I hardly
      consider myself among "the most intelligent people I've ever known")




      I think I'm about to adapt this for my signature on across about 100 forums...




      Indeed.





      More likely just plastic covers for their cars?

      Why Tyson Loves Pigeons - YouTube
      WOW, the confuse fear and money for respect, and NOW greed and dependence for loyalty! Regarding bill, I guess you never watched him.

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480289].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mike,
      I used to run a couple of political sites
      I wouldn't even consider it these days. I have zero tolerance for premeditated stupidity and casual rudeness.

      Too many people looking for villains, rather than solutions. And their definition of 'villain' usually translates as "someone who thinks differently than me."


      Paul
      Signature
      .
      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480896].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DavidAllenNeron
    Preparing to defend against Russia, China and Iran?

    It was pretty clear from the news conference Obama held that he plans on using military action even if congress doesn't approve it..

    Despite all the evidence that the rebels are the ones who used chemical weapons, whether those rebels were Al Qaeda or not remains to be seen but I highly doubt Assad used them considering he knew what the ramifications would be ...

    In the same breath Obama said that whatever action they took would make sure that Assad couldn't use chemical weapons, then said in response to a question that if they used military action and Assad used chemical weapons again after that strike what would Obama do ... and he said anything is possible.. so which is it? the strike will prevent Assad from using chemical weapons or... ?

    It reminds me of something Tupac said...

    I think this Country was built on gangs,
    I think this country is still run on gangs, republicans, democrats, the police department, the fbi the cia, those are gangs.

    When asked about the violence in gangs;
    The violence? but there's violence in America ...
    What did the USA just do flying to Bosnia, we ain't got no business over there..

    You know what gang violence is? Mostly... and the people don't want you to hear this...
    Somebody shoots your family member, so of course you retaliate...

    Same thing the US does, except nobody even shot their family members.
    They see, somebody bombed a school and all these people got killed so the United States feel like Ooh that's messed up now we've gotta go show them who the real killers are.
    That's the same mentality these gangsters get, so until they stop that mentality we won't stop, or they won't stop because they watch this Country to see what they're going to do; America is the biggest gang in the world.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480327].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by DavidAllenNeron View Post

      Preparing to defend against Russia, China and Iran?

      It was pretty clear from the news conference Obama held that he plans on using military action even if congress doesn't approve it..

      Despite all the evidence that the rebels are the ones who used chemical weapons, whether those rebels were Al Qaeda or not remains to be seen but I highly doubt Assad used them considering he knew what the ramifications would be ...

      In the same breath Obama said that whatever action they took would make sure that Assad couldn't use chemical weapons, then said in response to a question that if they used military action and Assad used chemical weapons again after that strike what would Obama do ... and he said anything is possible.. so which is it? the strike will prevent Assad from using chemical weapons or... ?

      It reminds me of something Tupac said...

      I think this Country was built on gangs,
      I think this country is still run on gangs, republicans, democrats, the police department, the fbi the cia, those are gangs.

      When asked about the violence in gangs;
      The violence? but there's violence in America ...
      What did the USA just do flying to Bosnia, we ain't got no business over there..

      You know what gang violence is? Mostly... and the people don't want you to hear this...
      Somebody shoots your family member, so of course you retaliate...

      Same thing the US does, except nobody even shot their family members.
      They see, somebody bombed a school and all these people got killed so the United States feel like Ooh that's messed up now we've gotta go show them who the real killers are.
      That's the same mentality these gangsters get, so until they stop that mentality we won't stop, or they won't stop because they watch this Country to see what they're going to do; America is the biggest gang in the world.
      Tupac Shakur (2Pac) | Never before seen footage on Americas GANG culture 2012 - YouTube
      But that is one of the things the federal government is SUPPOSED to do! "Provide for the public defense." That means:

      1. Develop and get powerful weapons, and a powerful military.
      2. Get allies.
      3. Attack any country that attacks the country or its allies.
      4. Defend the country and its allies.

      You know WHY that sounds like gangs? SOME people want power and are entertained by hurting others. The ONLY way for the victims to have peace is for the bullies to be attacked hard enough that they STOP! The difference is that the bad gangs START OUT as bullies. They aren't fighting to be left alone, but to get power.

      So WHY am I dead set against attacking syria?

      1. They didn't actually attack us.
      2. They didn't actually attack an ally.
      3. We don't really care about them.
      4. We don't even know who did what.

      BTW if the regime used gas, it was utterly STUPID! It was one of the worst times in ALL of history to do this, and they KNEW it! Inspectors were coming over. OK, they had NO reason to do it THEN!

      Conversely, it would be one of the BEST times for their enemies to FRAME them. It stood a decent chance of causing the world to attack their enemy!

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8480403].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    There are also studies of people who can't realize when the patterns are real (i.e. no theory about it). Those that cannot accept that corporate psychopaths can actually be evil enough to plan disastrous, murderous events for their own power and wealth. Not being able to believe this can happen has cost over 100 million lives in the last century alone. Their form of thinking is called cognitive dissonance. Look it up. Many kind and trusting soul is lost to those who do have a plan. Cult leaders depend on this fact - so do fascist dictators. Germans were unable to see Hitler as evil and having a plan. Pol Pot, Mussolini, Stalin. MKUltra, are just a few of the dupings that hit trusting people who do not understand the psychotic mind and the human capability of using others. Slaves exist because people are able to use others for their own benefit.

    People can say "not in the US", yet we had concentration camps right here on our soil in WWII - check that with any of our Japanese citizens who were alive and here back then. I lived right down the road from and old camp and toured it. It ran my blood cold.

    Those facts, and the fact that a lot of "conspiracy theories" are proved correct decades after....when consequences are a long shot and interest has moved on, of course, should serve to make people think about what they hear and see. The "authorities" are NOT going to tell you when they are doing something nasty for their own positions.

    Another fact is that the word "conspiracy theory" is used to describe information any time anyone alerts the public to a conspiracy - which by nature is fairly hush hush stuff. Tinfoil hatter, is what people are called just for the mere belief that there might be a man behind the curtain pulling switches. If I had said that our communications are being monitored, people would have called me crazy. Yet I had access to info at the AT office of US West back in 87 about Echelon. That's been going on a long time now. I don't see too many people calling Snowden anything but brave and heroic for informing us about that going on. Only those that are guilty of his charges are broiling over it. I am hoping that trend in open thinking continues so we don't find ourselves in WWIII in the next few months. At some point in time, we have to realize when power has become too great for our own good.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8481356].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    OK, I guess I am ODD! I NEVER wanted to be famous, rich, powerful, etc... I simply wanted to have a nice peaceful life. All too often, as I have done HERE, I have laughed and said this COULD be eden and paradise!

    When I was a kid, I heard LOTS of odd theories. Some I thought NO WAY! WHY would they do it? THAT isn't possible! That would hurt THEM too. I used to be VERY optimistic and questioned EVERYTHING.

    GUESS WHAT! Many ended up being proven TRUE! I have learned people don't need a reason. SOMETIMES, they want to steal $1B, but CAN'T, so they will allocate $100B, and take $1B as profit! Technology today is changing rapidly, and they say that the government is an average of 10 years ahead of the public. There is also the telephone game, and variants of it. People in power often DON'T CARE about the future!

    I love it when someone comes out with a CT and the target actually proves it himself or herself slowly over time. Things are getting more blatant. and more quickly. Alas, it is like the proverbial frog in a pot. You slowly raise the temperature. The frog gets comfortable, and doesn't want to jump, and eventually CAN'T, when it MUST!

    steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8482299].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AmazingP
    This is nothing to be afraid of...though the point here is the dark cloud of secrecy that is already the signature of the Obama administration. This is not yet the start of WW3...and even if USA would attack Syria for good...this is not yet the war that can lead to a global conflict. ")
    Signature
    I AM LOOKING FOR BETTER WAY TO MAKE MONEY ONLINE...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8484374].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by AmazingP View Post

      This is nothing to be afraid of...though the point here is the dark cloud of secrecy that is already the signature of the Obama administration. This is not yet the start of WW3...and even if USA would attack Syria for good...this is not yet the war that can lead to a global conflict. ")
      How do YOU know? How could ANYONE!?!?!? A small country had ONE person kill a person in a little(Sorry, but it IS little! By train you could cross it in less than a day, and it is rather small on a map) country of 32,000 and a close neighbor of 137,000 miles. To put that in perspective, CALIFORNIA is 163,000 miles. THAT started a world war! GRANTED the person killed was an archduke, but STILL... LATER it was used as "justification", in part, for ANOTHER world war. The interesting thing is that one that escalated it was RUSSIA. I DOUBT putin wants to be viewed in the same light as one he HIMSELF has ridiculed lately. So he would then likely be FORCED to start a war. If that happens, it will affect others, and THEN it could be like WWI all over again.

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485212].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by AmazingP View Post

      This is nothing to be afraid of...though the point here is the dark cloud of secrecy that is already the signature of the Obama administration. This is not yet the start of WW3...and even if USA would attack Syria for good...this is not yet the war that can lead to a global conflict. ")
      I'm not quite sure how you can say this with complete confidence.

      Are you aware of how many middle eastern nations we have troops in at this very moment? How many conflicts and skirmishes are going on presently in that area?

      I'm not saying that if we strike Syria it will cause WW3, but I'm not so naive as to say it won't or couldn't.

      Terra
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485265].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
    KAY! You think YOU have it bad? I once tried to research two dinosaurs. POPULAR ones! The ONLY dinosaur I found was one I never heard of! They "found" that the two talked about in y youth never existed and that the third was the REAL one. And stegosaurus? OH, IT looks different. Try matching THAT up! It really isn't possible! I mean YEAH, I can understand that some overzealous guy matched the wrong bones and an overzealous community listed them, and they stayed that way for DECADES until someone else "corrected" them, but it puts EVERYTHING in doubt! Like the times they found a new human species and later said they were WRONG!

    As for the conspiracy theories? I heard some earlier *****ONLY***** because I stumbled on some UFO books. Some stuff has PROVEN to be right. Is the other stuff? We may NEVER know!

    A lot of M/S programmers make some BIG mistakes. I, and possibly EVERYONE on this board has lost information, etc.... due to them. It is INTENTIONAL! It is either HUGE incompetence or some nefarious plot by M/S! HOW do I know? Because I studied to be an MCSD and for a brief time, M/S copyrighted information and were the ONLY ones allowed to distribute key info for an important test. Hidden in that book, it said that *****ALL***** null pointers should cause an assert which causes a fatal crash! That flies in the face of the old best practice which was to gracefully degrade. So if a feature created a null pointer, it would not be run. If a buffer returned a null pointer, it would not be used. BTW I likely have the book. That test was the ONLY test I got a score less than like 87% on. In fact, I FAILED it the first time. That is actually a GOOD thing, because they were some BAD ideas! I guess they had big problems, because they soon got rid of the test. I should still have the books though.

    So conspiracies exist, and sometimes they are ODD ones! I could rattle off a lot of big RECENT ones and PROVE they are conspiracies but, alas....

    Steve
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8485279].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
    I don't know what position this guy holds in Syrian Gov but he makes very bold statements how Syria did not use chemical weapons but they will in fact annihilate the US and Israel with chemical weapons if the United States gets involved in the conflict.

    He also talks about how Obama is a bast0rd who abandoned his fellow black community by not avenging the deaths of Kunta Kinte, Malcom X and Martin Luther King.


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8486771].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by joseph7384 View Post

      I don't know what position this guy holds in Syrian Gov but he makes very bold statements how Syria did not use chemical weapons but they will in fact annihilate the US and Israel with chemical weapons if the United States gets involved in the conflict.

      He also talks about how Obama is a bast0rd who abandoned his fellow black community by not avenging the deaths of Kunta Kinte, Malcom X and Martin Luther King.


      On Syrian TV, Threats to Annihilate Israel, US Forces with Chemical Weapons - YouTube
      I wish I could say EVERYTHING he said was wrong. He said some true stuff that is INSULTING to the US There is an 11yo that purports to be next in line for the throne in SYRIA. And now THIS guy that puts the US in the worst situation possible! We *****MUST***** go to war, but SHOULDN'T! If we do, we achieve nothing, etc.... a LOT of people will be killed. The US will likely be pulled into a BAD war! If we DON'T, we look like cowardly fools, and terrorism increases. Get ready for more disasters!

      And ALL because a person wants to be, and fancies himself, a KING. And that guy talks of red lines. To say, after the fact, that it is speaking for a recent law is IDIOTIC! The law was passed in like the 1920s!

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8486869].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by seasoned View Post

        We *****MUST***** go to war, but SHOULDN'T! If we do, we achieve nothing, etc.... a LOT of people will be killed. The US will likely be pulled into a BAD war! If we DON'T, we look like cowardly fools, and terrorism increases. Get ready for more disasters!
        After three years of bombing his own cities and people, Assad is becoming more desperate and facing a civil war he cannot win. Since the mid 1980's he has been building up an arsenal of chemical weapons, which now is something like 100 tons of sarin and many tons of other agents such as Tabun and VX. The US has the capability for not only unilaterally breaching Syria's rather formidable Russian-designed air defense systems, but also in neutralizing these chemical stockpiles, which have already been targeted in over 50 cities and several underground bunkers.

        As mentioned, Syria has said they will use these chemical weapons if attacked, but a much more imminent concern is that he may use these weapons anyway out of desperation against the rebels and civilians. Perhaps the major risk of Assad's fall from power would be for the rebels (which include al-Qaeda and other known terrorist groups) to seize control of this massive chemical weapons arsenal. It is believed to be the third largest stockpile in the world. Chemical weapons in the hands of terrorists is a very real global threat if the Assad regime is toppled.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8487582].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by myob View Post

          As mentioned, Syria has said they will use these chemical weapons if attacked, but a much more imminent concern is that he may use these weapons anyway out of desperation against the rebels and civilians. Perhaps the major risk of Assad's fall from power would be for the rebels (which include Al-Qaeda and other known terrorist groups) to seize control of this massive chemical weapons arsenal. It is believed to be the third largest stockpile in the world. Chemical weapons in the hands of terrorists is a very real global threat if the Assad regime is toppled.
          This^

          I just can't understand how a) No one seems to think that after a three year war, that the opposition could have already got some of those weapons and, heavens above, use it to drag the US et al into the war and b) We're now helping Al Qaeda.

          This was in the news yesterday. It's a known fact that there are terrorist links to parts of the rebel groups but I always thought the FSA (Free Syrian Army) were ok. Apparently though, it appears they share a similar dislike of Christian Syrians just like the extremists.

          Oh well, at least Assad will be gone soon and we can drink tea in Damascus with the Taliban with some Sarin biscuits.

          Christians flee Syria village that speaks the language of Jesus - Telegraph

          Many of the rebels who stormed the town this week however, residents said, were overtly sectarian. The attack on Maaloula was a joint operation between moderate rebels from the Free Syrian Army, and Jabhat al-Nusra, a jihadist group aligned with al-Qaeda.
          Signature

          Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8488167].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            Oh well, at least Assad will be gone soon and we can drink tea in Damascus with the Taliban with some Sarin biscuits.
            Plutonium-enriched sarin biscuits would have been nice if only Israel hadn't wiped out Assad's nuclear reactor in a 2007 airstrike.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8488921].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Yeah, well don't look now, Steve - the whole freaking world is saying some pretty insulting stuff about the US right now. What's just so embarrassing it's surreal, is the fact that we actually allow this shit to go on via people that are supposed to work for US, when we have the power to boot them to the curb. If the world sees us as stupid - maybe it's because we're acting it.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8487254].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Yeah, well don't look now, Steve - the whole freaking world is saying some pretty insulting stuff about the US right now.
      YEP, but SOME stuff you really can't avoid!

      What's just so embarrassing it's surreal, is the fact that we actually allow this shit to go on via people that are supposed to work for US, when we have the power to boot them to the curb. If the world sees us as stupid - maybe it's because we're acting it.
      EXACTLY! Many have done this INTENTIONALLY! I mean they spent BILLIONS of dollars in taxpayer money to.... IWICSM!!! And about calling one of the ones involved a B......? He ADMITTED that he was one! Perhaps the FIRST!!!!!!! I spoke in vague terms to a friend of mine. NEITHER of us are ones to use that word. He not only knew EXACTLY what I was talking about, but used the word!!!!!!

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8487289].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    The "weapon" was sodium fluoride - sold to them by the UK -- and happens to be the same poison they dump in our water and tell people is good for their teeth (not at all - good for only poisoning. Natural fluoride that is okay in small doses in your body, and is contained in mother's milk, is NOT the same thing).

    Russia, it seems, has already talked to Syria and Syria is just fine with giving the crap to the UN. Now if we could only get OUR admin to give the crap away, too.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492262].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author LarryC
    It will be a minor miracle if this war doesn't happen. You can be sure that peace is the last thing these guys in charge want. If they call off the bombing it only means that they were thwarted in a big way. The official reasons given are never more than a cover for what's really going on. While we may never know the details, the only reason they would ever choose not to launch a war is if they knew they couldn't get away with it. I can't recall this ever happening in my lifetime.

    If this war is truly called off, it can be seen as a rare victory for the people and a sure sign that the alternative media and internet have a real impact. Hopefully it's a sign that the tide is finally turning.
    Signature
    Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8492909].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    If they pay each of our congressmen what they paid each of the committee members to vote "yes", he'll get his strike........and every member of congress would get 6 figures to play with. Makes me freaking sick. Our military should be cleaning out our own gov right now instead of some phony war thousands of miles from where they can be of help to us when we need them.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8495876].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Our military should be cleaning out our own gov right now

      :confused:
      Signature

      The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

      ...A tachyon enters a bar.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8496559].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author socialentry
        Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

        :confused:
        Shit, that woman looks like the o rly bird
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497389].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If they pay each of our congressmen what they paid each of the committee members to vote "yes", he'll get his strike........and every member of congress would get 6 figures to play with. Makes me freaking sick.

      Our military should be cleaning out our own gov right now instead of some phony war thousands of miles from where they can be of help to us when we need them.

      I'm not saying it should ever happen but...

      If that ever should have happened in American history it should have happened during the last admin not this one.

      You'll never get your wish but you can always have the audacity of hope.

      LOL!!

      Now, where are the supporters of Sal's never ending madness on this subject???
      Signature

      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8496637].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        What Sal accepts - that you never do - is the great middle ground of opinion/viewpoint where most of us reside.

        It's the vast green, fertile space in between Sal's belief of the govt-is-out-to-get-us-at-all-times and your definition of my-leader-can-do-no-wrong-ever-no-matter-what.

        Sal considers other explanations and accepts statistics even when they don't support her theories. You follow the party line - always. It makes Sal interesting - and makes you predictable.:rolleyes:
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

        I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497215].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          What Sal accepts - that you never do - is the great middle ground of opinion/viewpoint where most of us reside.

          It's the vast green, fertile space in between Sal's belief of the govt-is-out-to-get-us-at-all-times and your definition of my-leader-can-do-no-wrong-ever-no-matter-what.

          Sal considers other explanations and accepts statistics even when they don't support her theories. You follow the party line - always. It makes Sal interesting - and makes you predictable.:rolleyes:



          #1: You never heard me say that the POTUS can never do any wrong and trying to characterizing all my related arguments in that way as "hero worship" won't help you in the least bit.


          This is what she said... (and she's said something to this effect on numerous occasions)

          "Our military should be cleaning out our own gov right now instead of some phony war thousands of miles from where they can be of help to us when we need them."



          Sal is calling for military action to overthrow the ________. (Left blank to avoid the snoopers and to not help this thread get deleted.)

          That should seem plain and clear to everyone who can read and comprehend what they have read.

          But...

          If you and others in here want to call that some sort of middle ground - go right ahead and help yourself.

          Maybe that's middle ground around here but from where I'm standing it looks and sounds like the big T - as in treason.


          I knew I could count on seasoned to thank Sal for the post and I guess I'll include you as well.

          Anyone else willing to declare support for Sal's position?
          Signature

          "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497330].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            #1: You never heard me say that the POTUS can never do any wrong...
            Well, not verbatim but in the totality of all your posts, um, you did indeed say that. In case you haven't noticed, you are dealing with a lot of very intelligent people here and it is very naive of you to assume that we can't read between the lines.

            I know your next move will be to say that you will add me to your "Sal" list, so don't bother. As Kay said, you are very predictable...

            Terra
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497364].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

              Well, not verbatim but in the totality of all your posts, um, you did indeed say that. In case you haven't noticed, you are dealing with a lot of very intelligent people here and it is very naive of you to assume that we can't read between the lines.

              I know your next move will be to say that you will add me to your "Sal" list, so don't bother. As Kay said, you are very predictable...

              Terra

              Miss Terrak what do you think Sal meant?
              Signature

              "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497382].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                Miss Terrak what do you think Sal meant?
                While I can't say definitively as my mind is mine and her mind is her's, I'll give it a shot and if I'm wrong, she is more than welcome to correct me.

                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                If they pay each of our congressmen what they paid each of the committee members to vote "yes", he'll get his strike........and every member of congress would get 6 figures to play with. Makes me freaking sick.
                Here she is stating that she believes that the committee members were paid to support a strike and if the same is done with congress, the strike will go forth and it makes her sick.


                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                Our military should be cleaning out our own gov right now instead of some phony war thousands of miles from where they can be of help to us when we need them.
                And here, I think she is alluding to this part of the Declaration of Independence:

                "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the
                same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,
                it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and
                to provide new Guards for their future security." - Declaration of Independence, JULY 4, 1776

                So now, I ask you what you think she meant.

                Terra
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497479].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  While I can't say definitively as my mind is mine and her mind is her's. But I'll give it a shot and if I'm wrong, she is more than welcome to correct me.



                  Here she is stating that she believes that the committee members were paid to support a strike and if the same is done with congress, the strike will go forth and it makes her sick.




                  And here, I think she is alluding to this part of the Declaration of Independence:

                  "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the
                  same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,
                  it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and
                  to provide new Guards for their future security." - Declaration of Independence, JULY 4, 1776

                  So now, I ask you what you think she meant.

                  Terra
                  I already said what I think she meant.


                  So in you opinion we have reached that point, where it's time for Military_________.

                  Yes or no?
                  Signature

                  "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497524].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                    I already said what I think she meant.


                    So in you opinion we have reached that point, where it's time for Military_________.

                    Yes or no?
                    I didn't say that in any way shape or form. I merely gave my interpretation.

                    Please don't talk to me like I'm in the first grade, I quit answering "yer or no" questions decades ago. :rolleyes:

                    If I felt it were important to voice my opinion on that matter here, I would have a long time ago.

                    I do suggest, however, that you think of everyone else responding in this thread and back off from this discussion as I don't want to see this thread nuked from blatantly ignoring the forum rules.

                    Terra
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497587].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                      I didn't say that in any way shape or form. I merely gave my interpretation.

                      Please don't talk to me like I'm in the first grade, I quit answering "yer or no" questions decades ago. :rolleyes:

                      If I felt it were important to voice my opinion on that matter here, I would have a long time ago.

                      I do suggest, however, that you think of everyone else responding in this thread and back off from this discussion as I don't want to see this thread nuked from blatantly ignoring the forum rules.

                      Terra

                      That's it, evade the simple yes or no question - and it is a simple yea or no question.

                      I'm questioning someone who clearly seems to be advocating overthrow of _________ and I'm the trouble maker?

                      I also loved LarryC's contention that I am collecting names in order to report someone as a ruse to avoid the question.

                      Carry on!
                      Signature

                      "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497685].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author LarryC
                        Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                        That's it, evade the simple yes or no question - and it is a simple yea or no question.

                        I'm questioning someone who clearly seems to be advocating overthrow of _________ and I'm the trouble maker?

                        I also loved LarryC's contention that I am collecting names in order to report someone as a ruse to avoid the question.

                        Carry on!
                        I only said that because you seem so anxious to compile a list of people who are guilty of treason in your view.

                        I can't speak for Sal or anyone else, but I don't advocate violence of any kind (except in self defense). I do think "our" government, which includes both major parties, is thoroughly corrupt and self-serving. It only serves the interests of banks and big corporations.

                        I would not be enthusiastic about supporting a military overthrow, however. Not because it's "treason" (I think it could be justified, such as in the quote from the Declaration of Independence by Terra above) but because the leaders of coups tend to be power hungry themselves and create new versions of the old tyranny. I would, however, like to see members of the military refuse to carry out unconstitutional orders.

                        What I'd like to see is a peaceful revolt grounded in widespread non-cooperation on the part of the masses.
                        Signature
                        Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497964].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          So in you opinion we have reached that point, where it's time for Military_________.

                          Yes or no?
                          That's not what was said - you are so busy preparing your argument you don't take the time to think through what you are responding to.

                          You invariably react from the position of defense of the administration. You may not see it - but you would be the only one here that doesn't. Because it's so predictable - it's not interesting.

                          I have no problem with those who don't agree with my views - but no respect for those who argue/attack/defend without analysis or thought of their own.

                          A debate is not a fight but a discussion and examination of ideas. You contribute nothing except anger, refuse to understand or consider what others think and seem to feel if you are rude enough, you win.

                          Think again.
                          Signature
                          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                          I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8498117].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
                          Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

                          I only said that because you seem so anxious to compile a list of people who are guilty of treason in your view.

                          I can't speak for Sal or anyone else, but I don't advocate violence of any kind (except in self defense). I do think "our" government, which includes both major parties, is thoroughly corrupt and self-serving. It only serves the interests of banks and big corporations.

                          I would not be enthusiastic about supporting a military overthrow, however. Not because it's "treason" (I think it could be justified, such as in the quote from the Declaration of Independence by Terra above) but because the leaders of coups tend to be power hungry themselves and create new versions of the old tyranny.

                          I would, however, like to see members of the military refuse to carry out unconstitutional orders.

                          What I'd like to see is a peaceful revolt grounded in widespread non-cooperation on the part of the masses.

                          I share your dislike of the power the bankers have over the country but don't agree that both parties are clearly and totally in the tank for them.

                          And I believe we're a long way from having to go with that unmentionable option to fix our probs.


                          OK, so you're for it, (the you know what) but fear the aftermath.

                          At least you answered the question unlike someone else in here. (LOL!)

                          I love to ask people to declare themselves clearly so that we can be clear on just what positions people have instead of having cloudy discussions with people using the thank you button and then having an out in saying stuff like I didn't agree with some of the post etc.


                          Thanks!!
                          Signature

                          "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8498124].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
                            but don't agree that both parties are clearly and totally in the tank for them.
                            One side partially deregulated the banking industry, the other side bailed them out when it failed and is now working on the same partial deregulating.
                            One side used limited unmanned drones, the other side increased their use.
                            One side started the Iraq war and gave a withdrawal date, the other side withdrew the troops on that date.
                            One side gave us NDAA and the Patriot Act, the other enhanced them.
                            One side partially deregulated genetically engineered crops, the other appointed people from those companies to 'regulate' them.
                            Yep nothing there to even remotely point to both parties being the same.
                            Signature

                            Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
                            Getting old ain't for sissy's
                            As you are I was, as I am you will be
                            You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8498384].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author LarryC
                            And I believe we're a long way from having to go with that unmentionable option to fix our probs.


                            OK, so you're for it, (the you know what) but fear the aftermath. >>

                            I didn't say I was for it. You seem to be using some kind of McCarthy-like logic that puts people in a certain category if they express any understanding or sympathy for a position.
                            Signature
                            Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8498841].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
                              Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

                              ...what do you think Sal meant?
                              Personally, I thought it was rhetorical.
                              Signature

                              Just when you think you've got it all figured out, someone changes the rules.

                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8499617].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                  Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                  While I can't say definitively as my mind is mine and her mind is her's, I'll give it a shot and if I'm wrong, she is more than welcome to correct me.



                  Here she is stating that she believes that the committee members were paid to support a strike and if the same is done with congress, the strike will go forth and it makes her sick.




                  And here, I think she is alluding to this part of the Declaration of Independence:

                  "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the
                  same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,
                  it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and
                  to provide new Guards for their future security." - Declaration of Independence, JULY 4, 1776

                  So now, I ask you what you think she meant.

                  Terra
                  Excellent, Terra. You definitely understand the English language, and at least a few issues with our government.

                  If people would care to find it out - they would see that each of the committee members that voted "yes" on the strike has received (personally) up to 6 figures from military contractors. You can call that a few different things: conflict of interest, corruption, crony capitalism, fascism -- take your choice. All apply.

                  Now - if I'm considered crazy for wanting that kind of trash cleaned out of our Gov offices: then call me batshit F***ing loco and I'll wear it with pride. There are a few lists that I prefer to be on than off.
                  Signature

                  Sal
                  When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                  Beyond the Path

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503575].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    Excellent, Terra. You definitely understand the English language, and at least a few issues with our government.

                    If people would care to find it out - they would see that each of the committee members that voted "yes" on the strike has received (personally) up to 6 figures from military contractors. You can call that a few different things: conflict of interest, corruption, crony capitalism, fascism -- take your choice. All apply.

                    Now - if I'm considered crazy for wanting that kind of trash cleaned out of our Gov offices: then call me batshit F***ing loco and I'll wear it with pride. There are a few lists that I prefer to be on than off.
                    I hear you loud and clear, Sal!

                    It must just be something about us Wolverine girls.

                    Terra
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503857].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
                      Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                      I hear you loud and clear, Sal!

                      It must just be something about us Wolverine girls.

                      Terra
                      Let's change that to make it sound a little better...

                      It must just be something about us Buckeye girls

                      (note: I don't include myself in the 'us girls' portion of the statement. Just wanted to make that extremely clear)
                      Signature

                      I

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503917].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                        Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

                        Let's change that to make it sound it bit better...

                        It must just be something about us Buckeye girls
                        Umm, but we're not. The closest thing to Ohio we got is our "Oh How I Hate Ohio State" chant. :p

                        Gooooo Blue!

                        Terra
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503931].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author David Maschke
                          Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

                          Umm, but we're not. The closest thing to Ohio we got is our "Oh How I Hate Ohio State" chant. :p

                          Gooooo Blue!

                          Terra
                          I guess picking a fight with you AND Sal isn't a wise decision. I therefore yield, for today, that is
                          Signature

                          I

                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8503963].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                            Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

                            I guess picking a fight with you AND Sal isn't a wise decision. I therefore yield, for today, that is

                            Smartest move a Buckeye can make. You can always tell a woman from U of M. You just can't tell her much.
                            Signature

                            Sal
                            When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                            Beyond the Path

                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8504053].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
                            Originally Posted by David Maschke View Post

                            I guess picking a fight with you AND Sal isn't a wise decision. I therefore yield, for today, that is
                            You're a wise man, I'll give you that.

                            You could have been walking out of the lounge with your buck eye changed to a black eye. :p

                            Terra
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8504063].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
                    Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                    Now - if I'm considered crazy for wanting that kind of trash cleaned out of our Gov offices: then call me batshit F***ing loco and I'll wear it with pride. There are a few lists that I prefer to be on than off.
                    To clarify my post of a few days ago, I want to make sure that you know
                    I agree with you several points. And when I don't agree with you, I'm
                    not labeling you negatively, and I respect your opinion. (The spirit of my
                    post was meant to be a joke, in hindsight I can only hope it was taken that way.)



                    I am also in favor of a change in about 80% of our current government
                    representatives, but imho, using the military to do it would be one of
                    the absolute worst mistakes we could make. Can you imagine the cascading
                    negative consequences if that were to actually happen, for our country
                    and most of the world? If it ever reaches that point, then we really
                    have completely lost everything we've been working for over the last
                    couple of hundred years.
                    Signature

                    The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

                    ...A tachyon enters a bar.

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8504127].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

                      To clarify my post of a few days ago, I want to make sure that you know
                      I agree with you several points. And when I don't agree with you, I'm
                      not labeling you negatively, and I respect your opinion. (The spirit of my
                      post was meant to be a joke, in hindsight I can only hope it was taken that way.)



                      I am also in favor of a change in about 80% of our current government
                      representatives, but imho, using the military to do it would be one of
                      the absolute worst mistakes we could make. Can you imagine the cascading
                      negative consequences if that were to actually happen, for our country
                      and most of the world? If it ever reaches that point, then we really
                      have completely lost everything we've been working for over the last
                      couple of hundred years.

                      Was referring to someone else and their "list". The only thing I want the military in there for is to escort them to trial before they can catch a plane. It's time for some justice in this berg.
                      Signature

                      Sal
                      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
                      Beyond the Path

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8505933].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        This administration has treated Putin in a dismissive way quite a few times. The media has gone along poked fun at him in other ways as a "macho" type.

                        During his first 8 years in office in the 90s, Putin was dealing with Russia at its lowest economic time. In those 8 years poverty and unemployment were cut in half and wages tripled. He instituted a 13% flat income tax, reduced other taxes, increased production of energy fuels and encourage high tech development. Putin may act silly at times...but he's nobody's fool.

                        From Forbes:

                        Any minimally honest analysis will concede that it [Russia] has a very large number of serious structural deficiencies that must be addressed if it is to continue growing at 4% for the next 5-10 years. But if you focus on actual results, as opposed to what should happen based on various kinds of economic theories, Russia has had a pretty good run over the past 14 years, a period of time during which the G7′s performance has been distinctly underwhelming. This reality is something to keep in mind the next time someone berates Putin for his ham-handed and unsuccessful economic management.
                        It shouldn't matter who gets the "win" for Syria - what matters is that we stay out of another potential war scenario. Yes, Putin is sly - no surprise there. He's a trained KGB officer turned successful politician...going up against a trained Constitutional lawyer.
                        Signature
                        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

                        I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8506745].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author LarryC
            Originally Posted by TLTheLiberator View Post

            #1: You never heard me say that the POTUS can never do any wrong and trying to characterizing all my related arguments in that way as "hero worship" won't help you in the least bit.


            This is what she said... (and she's said something to this effect on numerous occasions)

            "Our military should be cleaning out our own gov right now instead of some phony war thousands of miles from where they can be of help to us when we need them."



            Sal is calling for military action to overthrow the ________. (Left blank to avoid the snoopers and to not help this thread get deleted.)

            That should seem plain and clear to everyone who can read and comprehend what they have read.

            But...

            If you and others in here want to call that some sort of middle ground - go right ahead and help yourself.

            Maybe that's middle ground around here but from where I'm standing it looks and sounds like the big T - as in treason.


            I knew I could count on seasoned to thank Sal for the post and I guess I'll include you as well.

            Anyone else willing to declare support for Sal's position?
            Why, are you collecting names to report people? People with your mindset also considered the original American revolutionaries as treasonous. Some people always blindly support the status quo no matter how corrupt and insane it may be.
            Signature
            Content Writing, Ghostwriting, eBooks, editing, research.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497411].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author TLTheLiberator
              Originally Posted by LarryC View Post

              Why, are you collecting names to report people? People with your mindset also considered the original American revolutionaries as treasonous. Some people always blindly support the status quo no matter how corrupt and insane it may be.
              I ain't collecting shit.


              Is that the best you can do to deflect my questioning Sal's highly questionable comments?


              And I ain't advocating what she's advocating.


              Are you?
              Signature

              "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. -- Mark Twain

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497429].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author BTM
    I LOL'd at the idiotic title.

    When someone starts off something that COULD be beneficial to know with some jab at a news source they dislike. I immediately assume they're bias and pay zero attention to anything that goes against what they post.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8499653].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    And everyone is wrong - I probably write more thank-yous to the reps that do support us than any of you who like to call me "tinfoil paranoid". I don't think EVERYONE needs to be kicked out - just the little cartel of opportunists and fascists that have infiltrated.

    And it looks like more than a few support that goal to get them out. Colorado just recalled two of the scumbags.

    I think anyone who thinks it's ridiculous to kick people out of office for violating their Oath of Office are so clueless they shouldn't be allowed to have a vote. You support your country - not corrupted officials.

    If that ever should have happened in American history it should have happened during the last admin not this one.
    Yeah - well we SHOULD have cleaned up the mess right then and there. But we didn't and it's escalating. Since we can't go back and take care of it - it's time now. If you are all for the fact that the yes votes were all bought and paid for - it's a very sad thing for this country.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8499659].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Yeah - well we SHOULD have cleaned up the mess right then and there. But we didn't and it's escalating. Since we can't go back and take care of it - it's time now. If you are all for the fact that the yes votes were all bought and paid for - it's a very sad thing for this country.
      Unfortunately, we didn't have the chance until about 2008. Things got WORSE. So it was 2010. SOME stuff was fixed then, but a lot of the biggest trouble makers were allowed to continue. I COULD go on but, ALAS.... Our next big chance is NEXT YEAR! I really hope sanity returns, and someone figures a way out of this mess.

      Steve
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8499826].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TimPhelan
        UN report to be ready this coming Monday and it apparently doesn't look good for Assad. More pressure for him to cooperate and for Russia to keep it's word.

        Exclusive: U.N. Report Will Point to Assad Regime in Massive Chemical Attack | The Cable
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8499989].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          Colorado just recalled two of the scumbags.
          I think it's been a good week for real people in this country. The two tossed out in Colorado - and Weiner and Spitzer had poor showings. The money Bloomberg threw at Colorado made no difference, and that's good, too.

          Maybe people are wising up to pols who say anything to get elected - and then pursue their own agenda against voters wishes....and maybe they are tired of forgiving poor behavior and low moral standards in elected officials.

          We can only hope.
          Signature
          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world will change forever for that one dog.

          I wish offended people would react like fainting goats and quietly tip over.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8500077].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            I think it's been a good week for real people in this country. The two tossed out in Colorado - and Weiner and Spitzer had poor showings. The money Bloomberg threw at Colorado made no difference, and that's good, too.

            Maybe people are wising up to pols who say anything to get elected - and then pursue their own agenda against voters wishes....and maybe they are tired of forgiving poor behavior and low moral standards in elected officials.

            We can only hope.
            I saw someone crowing about something funny with one of the above. I guess I was too busy to look into the details. Unfortunately, I couldn't post it anyway. Yeah, not all really looks bad.

            AND, with regard on elections in the US, I was reading up on terms, etc... I don't think they ever taught in school about classes, but the senators in a particular state MUST be in different classes. That means that, even if 100% of the voters were against ALL their senators, they could only vote ONE out.

            That is probably a good idea most of the time, but if things go really nuts, it is bad. And if 100% of the voters were against it, it likely would have gone nuts.

            Steve
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8500205].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author ThomM
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            I think it's been a good week for real people in this country. The two tossed out in Colorado - and Weiner and Spitzer had poor showings. The money Bloomberg threw at Colorado made no difference, and that's good, too.

            Maybe people are wising up to pols who say anything to get elected - and then pursue their own agenda against voters wishes....and maybe they are tired of forgiving poor behavior and low moral standards in elected officials.

            We can only hope.
            And the Dem. who won the mayoral primary doesn't want NYC to be the marijuana arrest capital of the US anymore. That's huge for the people living there
            Signature

            Life: Nature's way of keeping meat fresh
            Getting old ain't for sissy's
            As you are I was, as I am you will be
            You can't fix stupid, but you can always out smart it.

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8500237].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Steve,
          I really hope sanity returns, and someone figures a way out of this mess.
          Unlikely. That would require that folks at "the top" learn to listen well, and you don't see many people in positions of public power these days who can count that among their virtues.

          We would also need to grow up as a species to the point where we didn't feel the need to conflate 'different' and 'bad' or 'wrong.' You don't have to look very far to see just how improbable that is.


          Paul
          Signature
          .
          Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8500124].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author seasoned
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Steve,Unlikely. That would require that folks at "the top" learn to listen well, and you don't see many people in positions of public power these days who can count that among their virtues.

            We would also need to grow up as a species to the point where we didn't feel the need to conflate 'different' and 'bad' or 'wrong.' You don't have to look very far to see just how improbable that is.


            Paul
            I know that, on the whole, people are doomed to be FAR from perfect, even in areas that would be relatively easy to fix, etc.... But I really hope the US, as a nation, can lower its debt relative to its income without bankrupting either the US or the people. Of course, I would also like it if we(speaking INTERNATIONALLY here) could get our freedoms back.

            Steve
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8500183].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author socialentry
    Oh noz! The gays are angry after Russia!

    Lastest news is that Putin peed in his pants at the idea of the gays being angry at russia!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8502481].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Actually it floors me that people in the US still believe the old brainwash crap that other countries are out to "take us over". I started hearing that when I was a small child - and of the two countries we were supposed to be so frightened of trying to conquer the world like Hitler tried -- NOT ONE has.

    If anyone cares to let their egos take some time off, you might be able to see that the US is the most aggressive country on the planet - and it's not freedom we spread when we walk into a country to "fix" it.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8507636].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author An Al
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      and of the two countries we were supposed to be so frightened of trying to conquer the world like Hitler tried -- NOT ONE has.
      You might actually want to take a step back and think about why that is.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8507960].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      Actually it floors me that people in the US still believe the old brainwash crap that [fill in the blank]. I started hearing that when I was a small child - and I still shake my head sadly when I hear some
      of the things that grown adults still believe.


      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      If anyone cares to let their egos take some time off, you might be able to see that the US is the most aggressive country on the planet - and it's not freedom we spread when we walk into a country to "fix" it.
      There is a lot of money to be made in war. We should all take some
      marketing lessons from the US gov.
      Signature

      The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

      ...A tachyon enters a bar.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8508110].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author An Al
    Should anyone referencing Alex Jones and infowars really be referring to anyone else as "faux news", lol?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8507931].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    One of the reasons many didn't see much of a point in going into Afghanistan, was because almost all of the terrorists of 9-11 weren't even from Afghanistan. They were all citizens of Saudi Arabia. The only reason to go there was because of Bin Laden - and of course we later found out that he was hiding like a dweeb without the capacity to do much of anything. All we did was turn him into a Martyr - thus again proving that we have no idea how to deal with their culture.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8509060].message }}

Trending Topics