TRUCKERS TO STRIKE!

Dennis Gaskill

12 years ago

Makes me wish I had a truck.

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MissTerraK 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Dennis Gaskill

Makes me wish I had a truck.

Well, you do still have that U-Haul rental, right?

Terra
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- Alexa Smith Banned 12 years ago
  
  Hmmm, transport strikes are quite worrying and can be really disruptive: they have a habit of having a knock-on effect for a long time, later, on all kinds of other things that you don't expect. But when you get down to it, almost everything is dependent on transport, one way or another. :p
  
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Claude Whitacre

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Don't plan on sending anything oct 11-13. Truckers are planning on creating gridlock in DC because of corruption.

Steve

I wonder if creating gridlock will actually stop corruption. Hmmmm.

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Dennis Gaskill 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MissTerraK

Well, you do still have that U-Haul rental, right?

Terra

Memory like an elephant.

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I wonder if creating gridlock will actually stop corruption. Hmmmm.

Not likely, but it may slow it down.

Doing something is better than doing nothing. If no one protests they just get bolder and cross more lines.
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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Claude Whitacre

I wonder if creating gridlock will actually stop corruption. Hmmmm.

At least it slows it down!

I once had a trip delayed over 3 hours! The average speed of the cars was reduced to 0MPH, on the VENTURA FREEWAY!!! Anice bikr brok through everything, and came back to tell us what it was. ONE truck jackknifed!

Steve

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Kay King

12 years ago

Let's wait and see what happens. What I notice on many of the "we're striking" claims is that numbers are greatly exaggerated both before and after the events.

I personally would be surprised if independent trucks spent the time/money to get to D.C. to participate in this...or even if many of them agree with it.

The "proof of participation" is supposedly 20k Facebook "Likes" and what does that prove?

The articles talk about the recent "2 million motorcycle strike" - but there weren't two million bikers or anywhere close to that. Riding a bike to a protest is a road trip - taking your truck off route for 3 days is an expense.

I'd like to see people care enough to protest - but I'll believe it when it happens.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Let's wait and see what happens. What I notice on many of the "we're striking" claims is that numbers are greatly exaggerated both before and after the events.

I personally would be surprised if independent trucks spent the time/money to get to D.C. to participate in this...or even if many of them agree with it.

The "proof of participation" is supposedly 20k Facebook "Likes" and what does that prove?

The articles talk about the recent "2 million motorcycle strike" - but there weren't two million bikers or anywhere close to that. Riding a bike to a protest is a road trip - taking your truck off route for 3 days is an expense.

I'd like to see people care enough to protest - but I'll believe it when it happens.

Not 2 million - officials confirmed 1,200,000. The number of unconfirmed riders is anyone's guess. Maybe not two million, but one hella lot of angry people.

The truckers have a damned good reason to strike - with that corridor that allows the truckers form Mexico to deliver without having to have US drivers intercede at the border regions is giving Mexico all the US trucker's money. Then there's the price of diesel. It's breaking the whole country. The gov needs to stop their "global" crap and start taking care of the US - and they need to do it right NOW.

I think there will be a LOT of truckers at this late date and time that will be more than willing to ride on DC. It's not about expense. I'm sure that some of them can get help funding that ride.
It's about our gov supporting everyone else's wallets but ours.

This needs to happen, and it needs to happen in as grand a scale as the biker's ride.

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HeySal

12 years ago

I don't think anything this side of an all out revolution will stop it -- but after that 2 million bikers ride in DC, They might start want to start thinking seriously about the shit they are pulling on us. They revoked the biker's permit when they found there actually would be vast numbers and the bikers went anyway. It was officially confirmed that there were over a million of them. Now, if that many bikers are willing to ride without permit, they are losing their control fast, and it would be beneficial for them to start doing their jobs instead of seeing how rich they can get at our expense.

As far as the truckers...........we right now are SUBSIDIZING an industry that reaps one of the highest profit margins on the globe (oil). Many in our congress are getting 5 and 6 figures put into their pockets PERSONALLY by the industry to keep prices high, and us struggling. So if they don't want the disruption -- they can stop acting like blood sucking parasites. Period.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

Link? I think it was closer to a few thousand from what I heard and saw. Probably less than 10,000. If there was an "official" count there should be an official website that shows that count. 2 million blogs reposting what the organizers say doesn't count as official. :/

Originally Posted by HeySal

It was officially confirmed that there were over a million of them.

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HeySal

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Link? I think it was closer to a few thousand from what I heard and saw. Probably less than 10,000. If there was an "official" count there should be an official website that shows that count. 2 million blogs reposting what the organizers say doesn't count as official. :/

Thousands -- yep, thats what MSM was reporting, huh? The count was posted on the official page of the ride on Facebook. The smallest estimate I've seen, other than from MSM (when they opened their corrupt little yaps at all about it) was 880,000 - but the official count was 1,200,000.

There were thousands out of some states alone - check out some of the videos of different cities they rode through that actually closed roads for them, etc.

Think about this, too --- Roaring Thunder itself has 800,000 members. You thnk they can't get a group of a mil + together fairly easily?

Also remember - they rode WITHOUT permits and your gov does NOT want you to know that anything going on without a permit actually had some force behind. it. They were stopping a lot of them at bridges, etc.

Did you see the pic of the military that were lining the road saluting them as they rode by? Bet you didn't. THAT was awesome.

Anyway - there's a LOT of videos of them riding through different local areas, and if you start adding up just the bikes in some of those, you're going to come up with a LOT more bikes than the corporate media told you were in DC itself. Ya think maybe they got lost on the road? LMAO.

You want to read about it - go to their official page on FB. They have a fairly large collection of stuff there about it.

By the way - I'm surprised you missed them riding out of L.A. - 55 mile stretch of them - and around an hour to pass. That's just L.A. Probably what YOUR news channel showed you as the whole DC crowd. LOL.

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TimPhelan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

The count was posted on the official page of the ride on Facebook. The smallest estimate I've seen, other than from MSM (when they opened their corrupt little yaps at all about it) was 880,000 - but the official count was 1,200,000.

Ahh. The "official" fb page.

You do realize why they would want to inflate the numbers don't you?

I did a little searching and found some quotes about this:

Okay folks, I was there. I live here. I used to have a reserved parking spot in Pentagon North parking lot, where some of the photographs come from. Those photos were real, but they were really of the 2005 Rolling Thunder. I've seen all of these comments about 800,000 to 1.2 million. They are all complete bullshit. That's almost two to 2.5 times the population of the District. We would have noticed. Incidentally, the police never issued a number like that. All of this bullshit comes from Belinda "Bullshit" Bee. They were lucky if they had 2000 total; I don't think there were that many. Incidentally, there was no traffic on the bridges.

there´s something they also haven´t considered.

just for 200,000 bikes

X 16 ft (bike length and space between) = 3,200,000 feet, or 609 miles

if you ride side by side, it´s still over 300 miles!

houston, i think we have a logistical problem!

and it gets better, as 500,000 bikes in staggered formation would come out to about 1532 miles in length.

According to the NHTSA there are about 7 million registered bikes in the USA. That includes ALL bikes - Kawasaki 125s and Vespas and Harleys and everything.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Link? I think it was closer to a few thousand from what I heard and saw. Probably less than 10,000. If there was an "official" count there should be an official website that shows that count. 2 million blogs reposting what the organizers say doesn't count as official. :/

Well, there is no way you're going to get a REAL confirmable number on that many people getting there in a certain manner. "official" means NOTHING no matter WHO says it.

STILL, if there is even a DOUBT as to it being a large number, and they get there WITHOUT being prodded, etc... , maybe people should consider it.

As people here said, and so PITIFULLY few ever realize, you can just go someplace like that. EVEN if they wanted to take a vacation, there is a lot to consider.

Steve

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Kay King

12 years ago

Think about this, too --- Roaring Thunder itself has 800,000 members. You thnk they can't get a group of a mil + together fairly easily?

Don't know "Roaring Thunder" but Rolling Thunder has been an "event ride" in D.C. for twenty years - usually on memorial day weekend. It's become a group focused on veteran affairs, MIA, POW and now on 9//11 and Benghazi.

Rolling Thunder - National Organization Headquarters

The 800,000 is an estimate of the number of bikers participating in a previous year's Memorial weekend event. It has turned into a "club" of sorts but the name was coined for the annual event. There were a lot of bikers in D.C. - but too spread out due to lack of permit for an accurate count.

I don't think bikers translate to truckers. Bikes are transportation - trucks are livelihood. I guess we'll see next month - could be interesting.

Steve - the pass for Mexican trucks on US roads was not a decade ago. To be fair, some of our trucking companies can now drive into or through Mexico, too, I think.

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Kay King 12 years ago

Makes me wish I had a truck.

Dennis - If they ever call a rally for pick-me-up trucks - they'll shut that city down!
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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Don't know "Roaring Thunder" but Rolling Thunder has been an "event ride" in D.C. for twenty years - usually on memorial day weekend. It's become a group focused on veteran affairs, MIA, POW and now on 9//11 and Benghazi.

Rolling Thunder - National Organization Headquarters

The 800,000 is an estimate of the number of bikers participating in a previous year's Memorial weekend event. It has turned into a "club" of sorts but the name was coined for the annual event. There were a lot of bikers in D.C. - but too spread out due to lack of permit for an accurate count.

I don't think bikers translate to truckers. Bikes are transportation - trucks are livelihood. I guess we'll see next month - could be interesting.

Steve - the pass for Mexican trucks on US roads was not a decade ago. To be fair, some of our trucking companies can now drive into or through Mexico, too, I think.

Frankly, STRONGLY doubt the veracity of the following article in content, but it DOES imply the restriction waas lifted 17 years ago:

Nearly 20 Years After NAFTA, First Mexican Truck Arrives In U.S. Interior

As for our guys being able to go to mexico? What a LAUGH! That is like a white trucker from nevada being allowed to go into watts at its WORST with NO INSURANCE! SERIOUSLY! Ever hear of reginald denny?

A trucker from watts would have been HAPPY to go ANYWHERE else. A trucker going there would say FORGET IT! Mexico has a bad government, a LOT of crime, and does NOT respect US insurance! So it is FAR from an even trade!

Steve

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

I've drove semi trucks around DC in the early 1990s, it's not as simple as driving down any street you want. I'm sure since 911 it's 100 times worse.

No owner operator truck driver is going to lose their rig because of a strike (impound). No company driver is going to drive out of unpaid routes/lanes on a company gas card & keep their job.

BTW, any semi truck/driver blocking an intersection won't be driving much longer. Don't even think about driving a semi truck in the carpool lane around DC.

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garyv

12 years ago

I don't know if I like this. Most of the people that are supporting this shut down are the same people that were against the Occupy protestors. I don't mind a personal protest, but not one that interferes with other people's businesses.

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seasoned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I don't know if I like this. Most of the people that are supporting this shut down are the same people that were against the Occupy protestors.

WHAT IS your point? Watch the leaders and look at the supporters! The "99%" was NOT the 99%, included some of the 1%, and was PRO government, etc....

The idea of the trucks is AGAINST government corruption, and does NOT include the 1%. so OF COURSE the supporters are a different group! Last I knew, the average truck driver owned his/her own truck, had a GRUELING job that could be hazardous, and made only about 30-50% then the average annual salary. Considering the risks, outlay, and exertion, and longer hours together with time away from home, that isn't really good pay. Outside of the unions getting some delays, etc... , they are likely to take ANOTHER real cut in pay.

As for how many will show up? WHO KNOWS!? It could be a surprise. It is ironic that the ones most affected are the least able to be a nuisance because they have to earn extra money to pay for the others!

Steve
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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I don't know if I like this. Most of the people that are supporting this shut down are the same people that were against the Occupy protestors. I don't mind a personal protest, but not one that interferes with other people's businesses.

BTW the "99%" interfered with others business and livelihoods, etc.... ALSO, it was protracted. The truck drivers are affecting less and for a shorter period.

Steve

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

I don't know if I like this. Most of the people that are supporting this shut down are the same people that were against the Occupy protestors. I don't mind a personal protest, but not one that interferes with other people's businesses.

With gov now interferring in everything but the color of toilet paper you buy (coming soon), and with admin shutting down crap that they should not be touching, I think most of us are more than willing to put up with a little inconvenience to make DC understand we're sick of the crap. It's way past time.

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MikeTucker

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

With gov now interferring in everything but the color of toilet paper you buy (coming soon), and with admin shutting down crap that they should not be touching, I think most of us are more than willing to put up with a little inconvenience to make DC understand we're sick of the crap. It's way past time.

Not me. If they were going to do this, they should have done it correctly.

Impotent activism is annoying.

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MikeTucker

12 years ago

Transportation strikes are particularly devastating and effective.
But there are always people talking about them, promising them.
These days I just don't believe it until it actually happens.

What annoys me about this one is that if it goes forward, it will
hurt the credibility of the "trucker strike". They are protesting
"corruption against the Constitution" but unfortunately, most of
them have never actually read it. And those who have read the
parts they want, and interpret it the way they want to, ignoring
200 years of legal precedents.

I really wish they would save it for the next time the cost of
gasoline goes up astronomically!

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

Transportation strikes are particularly devastating and effective.
But there are always people talking about them, promising them.
These days I just don't believe it until it actually happens.

What annoys me about this one is that if it goes forward, it will
hurt the credibility of the "trucker strike". They are protesting
"corruption against the Constitution" but unfortunately, most of
them have never actually read it. And those who have read the
parts they want, and interpret it the way they want to, ignoring
200 years of legal precedents.

I really wish they would save it for the next time the cost of
gasoline goes up astronomically!

Have YOU read the constitution? It really IS being corrupted. Many of those doing so said at one point that they WOULD do so!

As for gasoline? who cares if it is FREE, if you can't get it or use it?

Steve

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Kay King

12 years ago

I forgot about the Mexican drivers - that started a couple years ago ago but just read the court case was decided in favor of the govt last month.

The bikers were portrayed as "anti-" or "protesting" but those who participated that were interviewed said they rode to remember 9/11 and Benghazi victims and to let those in D.C. "know we are paying attention to what happens".

I don't blame the truckers for being angry. Company drivers won't be able to spend 3 days in D.C. unless the company is willing to allow the trucks to be used. Independent owner/drivers are unlikely to spend the downtime and fuel cost for it.

I'll give them credit for targeting the place that causes the problems...D.C.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

I forgot about the Mexican drivers - that started a couple years ago ago but just read the court case was decided in favor of the govt last month.

The bikers were portrayed as "anti-" or "protesting" but those who participated that were interviewed said they rode to remember 9/11 and Benghazi victims and to let those in D.C. "know we are paying attention to what happens".

I don't blame the truckers for being angry. Company drivers won't be able to spend 3 days in D.C. unless the company is willing to allow the trucks to be used. Independent owner/drivers are unlikely to spend the downtime and fuel cost for it.

I'll give them credit for targeting the place that causes the problems...D.C.

The free pass to mexicans was over a decade ago! Frankly, I am surprised it didn't affect things more. Anyway, they can apparently drive ANYWERE they want in northern america at least up to the canadian border. It was part of NAFTA.

Steve

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MikeTucker

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Have YOU read the constitution? It really IS being corrupted. Many of those doing so said at one point that they WOULD do so!

As for gasoline? who cares if it is FREE, if you can't get it or use it?

Steve

I'm going to stop with the "Constitution" line... In part because
I don't want to get into any political entanglement on the WF,
and in part because I've had my fill of such "debates".

But as for gasoline, if it were free, I would find a way to get
it and use it! :p

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

I'm going to stop with the "Constitution" line... In part because
I don't want to get into any political entanglement on the WF,
and in part because I've had my fill of such "debates".

But as for gasoline, if it were free, I would find a way to get
it and use it! :p

DON'T bet on it! Still, it is free NOW!!!!!!!! You can simply go to a gas station,open up the fill area, and siphon it out till your heart is content. In MOST states, and possibly FEDERALLY, it is a FELONY and, if you are caught, you will be sent to jail. They often have cameras all around! BUT, if you are willing to do ANYTHING, AS YOU CLAIM, IT'S FREE!

Steve

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MikeTucker

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

DON'T bet on it! Still, it is free NOW!!!!!!!! You can simply go to a gas station,open up the fill area, and siphon it out till your heart is content. In MOST states, and possibly FEDERALLY, it is a FELONY and, if you are caught, you will be sent to jail. They often have cameras all around! BUT, if you are willing to do ANYTHING, AS YOU CLAIM, IT'S FREE!

Steve

Umm... What? :confused:

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

Umm... What? :confused:

If you were somehow restricted from getting free gasoline, and insisted on getting t REGARDLESS, it woulld be akin to doing the same thing NOW! Recently, with one such product, I heard that trying to get it for free, if you are not in the group, can be punished by even JAIL TIME! SOO....

Steve

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MikeTucker

12 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

If you were somehow restricted from getting free gasoline, and insisted on getting t REGARDLESS, it woulld be akin to doing the same thing NOW! Recently, with one such product, I heard that trying to get it for free, if you are not in the group, can be punished by even JAIL TIME! SOO....

Steve

I'm sorry but I am just not following how you got to that?
In any case, I'm guessing that my previous statement was not clear?
(Sometimes I fail to communicate my points properly, I'm working on that!)

But, for future reference when I put a [:p] behind a statement,
it usually means that I was trying to make a joke. It seems I'm
just not as funny as I like to think I am?

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Kay King 12 years ago

Steve - the article was written in 2011...NAFTA took effect in 1993.
17 years after NAFTA would be about 2010-2011.

Let's be real - there were a lot of bikers but the claims are overstated. The idea that "the media" covered up the protest and didn't take photos is silly considering every other person has a smart phone on them.

I found one site about the biker protest ride that gave me a chuckle.

Free Advice For The Next 9/11 DC Biker Ride
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- seasoned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  Steve - the article was written in 2011...NAFTA took effect in 1993.
  17 years after NAFTA would be about 2010-2011.
  
  YEAH, it said the same thing in the article! It stated that NAFTA was to provide that freedom, but that the first time it was exercised was 2011.
  
  Let's be real - there were a lot of bikers but the claims are overstated.
  
  YEAH! I hate to say it, but I thought about some of the claims also. Why do you think I didn't respond to the claim of how much space they would take up? They're right.
  
  The idea that "the media" covered up the protest and didn't take photos is silly considering every other person has a smart phone on them.
  
  The media covers up a LOT! Smart phones only go so far. The site you pointed to, though it didn't show a million, showed a LOT, and the number was STILL imressive, even if it were only a thousand. HEY, BIKERS have to work and have lives to lead TOO!!!!
  
  I found one site about the biker protest ride that gave me a chuckle.
  
  Free Advice For The Next 9/11 DC Biker Ride
  
  1. HUH?
  2. It DID make it clear why they were there.
  3. SO WHAT? Did this person say the same about the "occupy" movement? And why should ANOTHER group dictate what THEY should have? NOTE TO ALL MUSLIMS! If others having pork offends you, STAY AWAY FROM THE US! MANY here eat pork!
  4. OK, I am against gaudy things too. To each his/her own.
  5. It's kind of customary. Don't ask me why. Maybe many came from the south.
  6. See 4.
  7. OK, they were under surveillance?
  8. See 4
  9. See 4
  10. SO WHAT?!?!?!?
  11. You think that was supposed to be intimidating? **I** have been closer to the whitehouse than that!
  12-13. HUH?
  14. To each his/her own.
  15. OK, this doesn't even make sense.
  16. YEAH, that sign will do little.
  17. Something we can ALL agree with!
  
  Steve0
  
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  Kay King 12 years ago
  
  That you would feel you needed to argue every point just astounds me.
  
  There was a message and some humor in the link I posted - no earth shaking information.
  
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  seasoned 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kay King
  
  That you would feel you needed to argue every point just astounds me.
  
  There was a message and some humor in the link I posted - no earth shaking information.
  
  Would you have felt better if I only commented on 3-4 points? Not all were arguments. HECK, even the arguments really weren't arguments.
  
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TimPhelan

12 years ago

Bingo. These guys who do actually try this are just being used and are really asking for trouble in this day and age. Umm, yeah, lets block traffic with a bunch of semis in the Nation's Capital. Anyone else see a problem with this? Like Yukon said any trucker who tries this crap will take a chance of losing their license/truck and/or job. I have known a lot of truckers, since I was a teamster for 17 years, and they aren't that dumb.

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

Transportation strikes are particularly devastating and effective.
But there are always people talking about them, promising them.
These days I just don't believe it until it actually happens.

What annoys me about this one is that if it goes forward, it will
hurt the credibility of the "trucker strike". They are protesting
"corruption against the Constitution" but unfortunately, most of
them have never actually read it. And those who have read the
parts they want, and interpret it the way they want to, ignoring
200 years of legal precedents.

I really wish they would save it for the next time the cost of
gasoline goes up astronomically!

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yukon

Banned 12 years ago

Guys the whole idea is silly.

This isn't some average march protest your talking about. What's the point in causing a gridlock & risk losing your driving job, rig, or CDL?

Having a semi truck towed (impound) cost thousands of dollars & you best hope your not pulling a trailer you don't own. Get some companies freight/trailer/truck locked up in impound & see how that works out in court.

East Bound and Down - YouTube

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HeySal

12 years ago

Time: Here's the post from the 2 million bikers organizers, it's near the bottom of their page:

Obama's people, including CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and yes, even Fox news, don't want you to understand the enormity of what has taken place in Washington, DC.

More big solid Americans swarmed the little movie set we call The Capitol than the number there are of our active duty military overseas who are actually carrying rifles and stationed in combat zones.

A huge ARMY of Americans, patriotic, proud of this country, many of them TRAINED SOLDIERS, MARINES, AIR FORCE and NAVY , literally SWARMED the nations capitol, took it over, The DC police, who always undercount demonstrators to de-emphasize the demonstration, says the number of bikers at the 9/11 rally was 1.2 million; other counts all place the number closer to 1.5 million.

An army a million and a half strong invaded the foreign-held city, and immobilized it's occupants; obviously the occupants, all of them, would like very much for you who's taxes give them their power, to NOT NOTICE.

DID YOU NOTICE???????????

The sheer numbers of bikers that responded to this national Call Of Duty literally boggles the mind; Los Angeles, my old stomping grounds, proved to be a great point in case.

A Column stretching 55 miles long rode out of Los Angeles California, just let that sink in for a while… That is a column of Bikers that stretches beyond horizon to horizon. That is a column, that even traveling at 60 miles per hour, would have taken more than an hour to pass any given point. That was JUST the bikers from Los Angeles California.

Neither Islam, nor any other foreign power, can stand against the will of the American Patriot.

Never forget that, never let ANYONE trick you into thinking we can't reject FORCEFULLY as many armed foreigners as want to take their shot at us.

This country is the best, it has been the best for a very long time, and it's going to remain the best.

It's the best country because we are a strong, well-armed, self-sufficient people who will swamp any efforts to attack us with our own brand of sheer unmitigated stubborn orneryness and a determination that NEVER quits.

God has truly blessed The United States Of America.

Do well, be well.

< Sarge.

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garyv

12 years ago

A better use of your CDL would be to take a bus full of like minded voters to the polling place. - or if you have time to spare, take a load of supplies over to Colorado.

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seasoned

12 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

A better use of your CDL would be to take a bus full of like minded voters to the polling place. - or if you have time to spare, take a load of supplies over to Colorado.

Actually, I that is generally illegal!

According to FMCSA, CDL holders need a P endorsement!

Commercial Driver's License Program (CDL/CDLIS) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

ALSO, the vehicles need to be made for the purpose. So a truck driver can't just tell people to hop in!

Steve

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powerofschool

12 years ago

Oh Thats an Bad idea ...

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MikeTucker

11 years ago

Ended as pathetically as it began, LOL

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RIGGER53

11 years ago

THIS isn't the right thing,to do.Instead vote next time,for people with brains,and put them in office.It always seem,that when there is a democratic president,the republican congress tries to make it difficult,to pass,anything.The right thing to do ,is vote republicans,out of office,and there won't be any gridlock!

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by RIGGER53

THIS isn't the right thing,to do.Instead vote next time,for people with brains,and put them in office.It always seem,that when there is a democratic president,the republican congress tries to make it difficult,to pass,anything.The right thing to do ,is vote republicans,out of office,and there won't be any gridlock!

Well, when we have such a president, we can see how that party will react. IMAGINE how bad things would be WITHOUT the gridlock. We can't just keep raising the ceiling.

He said raising the ceiling doesn't raise the debt. ********TECHNICALLY********* that is true! It is so you CAN raise the debt. If we didn't raise the debt, it would NOT have to be raised, so he clearly LIED!

It is like a little kid asking you for cake, and claiming that it won't do ANYTHING for him! It won't raise blood sugar, affect his digestion, etc... All TRUE! A diabetic could EASILY buy every cake on the planet, and have NO problems! You could buy a peanut roll, be DEADLY allergic to peanuts, and NOT DIE! INCREDIBLE, but TRUE! The ONLY way it is not true is if you EAT it, or are exposed to the peanuts.

*******BUT*******, and THIS is an IMPORTANT question asked for MILLENIA! If you aren't going to avail yourself of the product, WHY BUY IT!?!?!?!? I heard that the interest rate on some short term debt is now like 9 TIMES what it was only a few years ago. LUCKILY, it hasn't affected the long term debt yet, but that might be because of "operation twist". Operation Twist Definition | Investopedia And all the garbage with the markets. But that higher interest rate indicates things are getting hurt!

LIKEWISE, if you AREN'T going to borrow money, why make such a big deal about increasing the limit? Do you realize that the limit is now bigger than the national debt of ALL presidencies up to about 20 months ago PUT TOGETHER?!?!?!?!? That really IS incredible!

Steve

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KingOfContentMarketing

11 years ago

Unlike the fake photos of the convoy you see on social media, here is a real one:

Truckers Strike 2013: Fake Photos, Allegedly of Protest, Being Shared on Social Media

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HeySal

11 years ago

Man, they are cracking down on info about this one. The news reported it was a flop - but I saw an areal picture and there was no flopping about it - now I"m looking for the site again - it's hard to find anything. The results aren't showing up in Google at all for anything other than pre-strike info. I've had to go to FB and look for posts about it. 3 of the links in friends posts were removed (not by them). I should have grabbed the areal right then and there instead of going back for it. Holy cow - seems an info blackout on a lot of stuff in the last 8 hours. Anyone heard that there are 17 states that people's ebt cards aren't working? It's reported to be things such as "electrical outages" etc - but nobody really knows what's going on yet. Something's a brewing in DC and I don't think we're gonna like it.

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Kay King

11 years ago

I cannot believe intelligent people are falling for the same fake stories yet again.

Loads of hype about an upcoming protest. Lots of claims of hidden info and conspiracies after the protest.

All the photos linked to by the group appear legitimate, but Epoch Times was able to confirm at least four fake photos being circulated on Facebook and Twitter that are not of the protest today.
What appeared to be the most shared photo, showing a convoy of trucks taking off on a two-lane highway, presumably on its way to the protest, with people cheering on the roadside, is actually from a Make-a-Wish Foundation event in May.
Another photo, showing a lighted truck that has an American flag on the side, appears to be from 2012.

Problem is - this wasn't much of a protest - it was smoke and mirrors.

The reason you may not find the photos again is simple...people who have seen this act before quickly researched some of the photos and found them to be faked and some taken elsewhere at other times. The tricks pulled after the "2 million biker" march scam didn't work as long this time.

This has become the digital age formula for "protest" - a lot of threats, words, posturing online before and claims of suppression after .... and not much activity in the real world on protest day.

Verified photos showed about 3-4 dozen trucks and about 2 dozens pickup trucks and few if any bikers participating.

As for EBT - the real story is in the reaction of the EBT card holders. On twitter and FB there are threats of violence, "rage", killing, riots, "take down the man", claims of persecution and racism....

....all because a computer problem at Xerox stopped the processing of EBT cards for a limited time in some states.

If you go back and look at old photos from the Great Depression you see people standing patiently in lines that were blocks long...just to get one free meal or one box of grocery staples. We've come a long way from that - now we claim persecution when our free cards pre-loaded with money don't work one day out of a year. Not sure that counts as progress.

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MikeTucker

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, when we have such a president, we can see how that party will react. IMAGINE how bad things would be WITHOUT the gridlock. We can't just keep raising the ceiling.

He said raising the ceiling doesn't raise the debt. ********TECHNICALLY********* that is true! It is so you CAN raise the debt. If we didn't raise the debt, it would NOT have to be raised, so he clearly LIED!

It is like a little kid asking you for cake, and claiming that it won't do ANYTHING for him! It won't raise blood sugar, affect his digestion, etc... All TRUE! A diabetic could EASILY buy every cake on the planet, and have NO problems! You could buy a peanut roll, be DEADLY allergic to peanuts, and NOT DIE! INCREDIBLE, but TRUE! The ONLY way it is not true is if you EAT it, or are exposed to the peanuts.

*******BUT*******, and THIS is an IMPORTANT question asked for MILLENIA! If you aren't going to avail yourself of the product, WHY BUY IT!?!?!?!? I heard that the interest rate on some short term debt is now like 9 TIMES what it was only a few years ago. LUCKILY, it hasn't affected the long term debt yet, but that might be because of "operation twist". Operation Twist Definition | Investopedia And all the garbage with the markets. But that higher interest rate indicates things are getting hurt!

LIKEWISE, if you AREN'T going to borrow money, why make such a big deal about increasing the limit? Do you realize that the limit is now bigger than the national debt of ALL presidencies up to about 20 months ago PUT TOGETHER?!?!?!?!? That really IS incredible!

Steve

Terms to learn:

Debt
Deficit
Debt Ceiling

Originally Posted by KingOfContentMarketing

Unlike the fake photos of the convoy you see on social media, here is a real one:

Truckers Strike 2013: Fake Photos, Allegedly of Protest, Being Shared on Social Media

Originally Posted by Kay King

I cannot believe intelligent people are falling for the same fake stories yet again.

Loads of hype about an upcoming protest. Lots of claims of hidden info and conspiracies after the protest.

Problem is - this wasn't much of a protest - it was smoke and mirrors.

The reason you may not find the photos again is simple...people who have seen this act before quickly researched some of the photos and found them to be faked and some taken elsewhere at other times. The tricks pulled after the "2 million biker" march scam didn't work as long this time.

This has become the digital age formula for "protest" - a lot of threats, words, posturing online before and claims of suppression after .... and not much activity in the real world on protest day.

Verified photos showed about 3-4 dozen trucks and about 2 dozens pickup trucks and few if any bikers participating.

As for EBT - the real story is in the reaction of the EBT card holders. On twitter and FB there are threats of violence, "rage", killing, riots, "take down the man", claims of persecution and racism....

....all because a computer problem at Xerox stopped the processing of EBT cards for a limited time in some states.

If you go back and look at old photos from the Great Depression you see people standing patiently in lines that were blocks long...just to get one free meal or one box of grocery staples. We've come a long way from that - now we claim persecution when our free cards pre-loaded with money don't work one day out of a year. Not sure that counts as progress.

And these two posts are why I absolutely love the Internet.

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seasoned 11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

Terms to learn:

Debt
Deficit
Debt Ceiling

Debt, here, is the amount of money the US owes on bonds, and various promises.

Deficit, here, is the amount they have paid, or are paying, over what is taken in. The government cheats here though. There IS what is called a BUDGET deficit which is the amount they SAY they have or will pay over what they SAY they PLAN to take in!

Debt Ceiling is the amount of debt the government is ALLOWED to owe, by congress.

You could think of debt as what you owe on a credit card, and the debt ceiling as the credit limit. In fact, though IT, AND the credit limit on a credit card, ARE debt limits(aka ceilings), credit limit might be a better term.

The Credit limit, TECHNICALLY, is what they BELIEVE you can safely repay! As you go higher, that belief starts to disappear.

Steve
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DubDubDubDot

11 years ago

The biker march was organized to drown out the muslim march. They were successful in that.

The truckers that showed up at their march were probably just the ones in the area.

The veteran's march has packed a more powerful punch than the others. They stormed the closed down areas of DC and took down barricades. This photo is really great...

https://twitter.com/andrewbcreech/st...723136/photo/1

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Kay King 11 years ago

The veterans didn't really 'march" - but they did show up in some numbers. The difference in my view is the veterans had a true focus for their protest - and the message was clear. They command respect because they earned it.
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HeySal

11 years ago

There were a lot more trucks and people there than media reported. Trucks drove in shifts, so they were never all on the roads at once. One trucker got on a video and was telling us they were there despite what media was saying. Links were being taken down as fast as they were going up. I saw a pic of the truckers from an areal and they were there - en force.

In DC, the crowd was split between several monuments so we never got the effect of masses on the capital lawn - the were at the Washington and Lincoln memorial that I know of, and not sure what others. The ones at the Veterans memorial ended up at the capital throwing the "Barry-cades" on the WH lawn. Police in swat uniforms came out and started pushing the vets and rather than the crowd going violent - they jeered the police with calls of "Shame on you", called them "brown shirts" (a reference to Hilter's citizen army) and heckled them back into submission.

It's hard to find pictures because FB, Twitter, Google, and the rest are having fun burying the links, but a few good ones are making it through.

There was also a March against Monsanto today, and it's the same thing - hard to find the event reports, but it looks like some cities had a good turnout on that one.

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Kay King

11 years ago

I'll say what I said after the biker's protest claims.

In this day of cell phones and digital cameras and websites (go outside twitter and facebook) - there is no excuse for anyone to make claims of numbers they can't back up with dated photos. Any protest where followers feel pressured to post faked photos - loses credibility.

It looks like the vets march got bigger than I knew...and I'm happy to see that. I had seen the gathering at the memorial on Saturday but was offline yesterday. I still dislike the use of "million" in every protest movement - time to come up with something original.

Protests that are a general litany of complaints don't accomplish anything. The truckers were a bit like OWS - the goals seem to change each time you asked a different person.

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

I'm not sure the "Million Vet March" protest was that successful either. Looked like a hundred or so people including the guy most people agree was behind the shutdown, Sen Cruz, along with the ex Gov of Alaska there for a photo op. Oh yeah, and one guy holding a huge confederate flag. :/ Someone needs to tell that guy they lost the war.

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I'm not sure the "Million Vet March" protest was that successful either. Looked like a hundred or so people including the guy most people agree was behind the shutdown, Sen Cruz, along with the ex Gov of Alaska there for a photo op. Oh yeah, and one guy holding a huge confederate flag. :/ Someone needs to tell that guy they lost the war.

They were spread out at memorials across the country, Tim - 3 or more just in DC, so you have to add them all together. I don't think that they are as effective as all those people in ONE place - but many can't get to the main protests. I'd go to DC for some of these if I could - but am not able, so going to a local protest is sometimes a way to show support when you can't support the cause you want at the main protest. Still gets people to notice that something is going on.
There were several thousand right in DC - how many exactly I have heard no official word on. Probably won't. I heard the news report a couple of dozen trucks, but saw an areal photo of at least hundreds. When links start getting blocked and pulled down, it's hard to say. That's why we need to fight for our 1st Amendment rights and keep governments from controlling the Internet. It's the only source of free info now. Everything else is corporate owned - and it's consolidated mostly between 6 corporations. Many of the channels have spouses of the higher execs in the Admins offices, so you have to figure there will be at least "spin" on anything THEY report.

I'm not sure what the confederate flag was supposed to represent, either - unless it was a statement that it's time to start state secessions? Didn't see any signs connected to those flags so it just went over my head.

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

I have heard no official word on.

"U.S. Park Police estimated there were 100 to 200 protesters and said there were no arrests."

Just missed the million mark by a mere 999,800. Close, but no cigar.

Veterans protest shutdown-related closure of monuments and memorials - The Washington Post

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

"U.S. Park Police estimated there were 100 to 200 protesters and said there were no arrests."

Just missed the million mark by a mere 999,800. Close, but no cigar.

Veterans protest shutdown-related closure of monuments and memorials - The Washington Post

While a video I saw revealed that there were more than that at just the one memorial. That's why it's hard to find videos that aren't blocked. That's what I am saying about Gov getting their hands on the net. Media lied about the trucks, too - and it was very clear they were doing so if you were able to get ahold of any of the videos or pics before they were blocked. I tried to get the areal to post in here and it was blocked already when I got back to it.

Something is very rotten in Denmark.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

While a video I saw revealed that there were more than that at just the one memorial. That's why it's hard to find videos that aren't blocked. That's what I am saying about Gov getting their hands on the net. Media lied about the trucks, too - and it was very clear they were doing so if you were able to get ahold of any of the videos or pics before they were blocked. I tried to get the areal to post in here and it was blocked already when I got back to it.

Something is very rotten in Denmark.

BESIDES, DON'T forget! There are NOT that many WWII vets! And ****SOME**** people have to WORK for a living!

Steve

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I'm not sure the "Million Vet March" protest was that successful either. Looked like a hundred or so people including the guy most people agree was behind the shutdown, Sen Cruz, along with the ex Gov of Alaska there for a photo op. Oh yeah, and one guy holding a huge confederate flag. :/ Someone needs to tell that guy they lost the war.

He did NOT shut things down! HECK, He COULDN'T even! But if things keep going as they WERE, the US would be hurt BIG TIME!!!!!!!! They have been doing this for YEARS, and made BIG headway WEEKS ago, BUT.....

China warns world: It

You can NOT just simply keep increasing the debt. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO entity in all of history has EVER managed to do so! I recently read of how the US tried it once and FINALLY reversed the trend in 1965!!!!! BTW they STOLE a LOT of money from the public! GERMANY managed to tell the world to GET LOST! They dropped ALL debt! A guy called ADOLF took over the country. EVENTUALLY, he killed himself, and the UK forced Germany to pay its debt in 1950. OH, we could talk about NERO, etc.... SAME THING!

Steve

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garyv

11 years ago

It doesn't really matter how many were there. There's only a million WWII vets left in existence still alive anyway. All it takes is a handful of them being blocked out of the memorial they fought for, for it to prove the point that this admin is using them as a pawn in their game of hurting as many people as possible.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

It doesn't really matter how many were there. There's only a million WWII vets left in existence still alive anyway. All it takes is a handful of them being blocked out of the memorial they fought for, for it to prove the point that this admin is using them as a pawn in their game of hurting as many people as possible.

Here you go: News Distribution Network - Shared Video

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MikeTucker

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Something is very rotten in Denmark.

Actually Denmark seems to be doing quite well these days. :p

Originally Posted by garyv

It doesn't really matter how many were there. There's only a million WWII vets left in existence still alive anyway. All it takes is a handful of them being blocked out of the memorial they fought for, for it to prove the point that this admin is using them as a pawn in their game of hurting as many people as possible.

Gah, I hate it when politicians are good at being politicians! It's like when
an attorney is good at being an attorney, or a surgeon is good at being
a surgeon... oh, wait a minute...

On the other hand, weren't those things that would be shut down determined
many years ago, whereas the Veterans' tour was only booked earlier this year?
Man, it would have taken some incredible foresight to plan the timing on that
just for a few political cookies!

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

Actually Denmark seems to be doing quite well these days. :p

NO offense to the Danes, though they will probably agree to a degree..... Have you EVER smelled "Danske ost"? Check GAMMELOST here! Scandinavian Kitchen

BTW "dansk mad" Means Danish Food. And I guess 7. Gamle Ole (Old Ole) is really the "danske ost", but the "Gammelost (Old cheese)" has the right and accurate description.

P-EEW!

A recipe dating back to the Viking times, "Old cheese" needed very little help to mature. Most people say both taste and smell resembles something that has spent a few months inside a sweaty old sock. As you know, nothing pleases a true tyrophile more than a slice of stinky old sock. Admittedly, perhaps due to the taste, younger Norwegians are falling out of love with it, even if it is does have the nickname of Norwegian Viagra.

ALSO, this cheese is about the only thing in denmark I saw that I didn't like. c'est la vie.

Gah, I hate it when politicians are good at being politicians! It's like when
an attorney is good at being an attorney.

Just today I heard a guy, ironically a SURGEON, saying he was too honest to ever become a politician!

On the other hand, weren't those things that would be shut down determined
many years ago, whereas the Veterans' tour was only booked earlier this year?
Man, it would have taken some incredible foresight to plan the timing on that
just for a few political cookies!

Many have said there were orders to "MAKE IT HURT!"! They even PAID people to BLOCK PRIVATE PROPERTY!!!!!!!!!! Some states ended up paying for THEIR areas.

Steve

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Sure it matters how many showed up. Plus, the ww2 veterans didn't fight for a memorial. Good grief. Save the drama. :/

Originally Posted by garyv

It doesn't really matter how many were there. There's only a million WWII vets left in existence still alive anyway. All it takes is a handful of them being blocked out of the memorial they fought for, for it to prove the point that this admin is using them as a pawn in their game of hurting as many people as possible.

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Sure it matters how many showed up. Plus, the ww2 veterans didn't fight for a memorial. Good grief. Save the drama. :/

The memorial is there because they fought, otherwise it wouldn't be there. Does every thing have to be explained to you? Good grief Tim I thought you were better educated than that.

And no it doesn't matter how many showed up. Their point was still communicated. And quite honestly - none of them really had to show up, just the barricades there alone communicate the fact that this admin is putting the hurt on people for political showmanship. Thankfully there's still enough smart people in this country that don't continually fall for those idiotic tactics.

Don't kid yourself - if the president wanted to keep from hurting the people, he could have passed an executive order to keep those places open. Rules and regulations have not stopped him from passing executive order in the past, so what's stopping him now? Everyone knows what's stopping him. He is. Because he wants these things shut down. He's falsely assuming someone else will get the blame.

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Ridiculous. Wow! You are a piece of work! This WW2 memorial "issue" is small potatoes compared to many more real issues that are happening now and will be happening soon if the debt ceiling isn't raised and the government continues to be shutdown. We really will have millions march on DC in that case instead of these continued phoney contrived "protests" where hardly anyone shows up.

Originally Posted by garyv

The memorial is there because they fought, otherwise it wouldn't be there. Does every thing have to be explained to you? Good grief Tim I thought you were better educated than that.

And no it doesn't matter how many showed up. Their point was still communicated. And quite honestly - none of them really had to show up, just the barricades there alone communicate the fact that this admin is putting the hurt on people for political showmanship. Thankfully there's still enough smart people in this country that don't continually fall for those idiotic tactics.

Don't kid yourself - if the president wanted to keep from hurting the people, he could have passed an executive order to keep those places open. Rules and regulations have not stopped him from passing executive order in the past, so what's stopping him now? Everyone knows what's stopping him. He is. Because he wants these things shut down. He's falsely assuming someone else will get the blame.

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Ridiculous. Wow! You are a piece of work! This WW2 memorial "issue" is small potatoes compared to many more real issues that are happening now and will be happening soon if the debt ceiling isn't raised and the government continues to be shutdown. We really will have millions march on DC in that case instead of these continued phoney contrived "protests" where hardly anyone shows up.

I know, I know... The sky is gonna fall right? Where have we heard that one before? LOL Still waiting for the sky to fall from the sequester.

Did you know it took more money and workers to barricade and guard the memorials and parks than it would have to just keep them open?

Right now the Government is in a giant game of Chicken Little - trying to make us all think that they are more of a necessity than they actually are. Liberals are so frightened that their bluffs are finally being called, and the consequences are not going to be anywhere near the dire frenzied hype they've engaged in.

Besides, the polls still show that a majority of Americans do not want our health-care run by the same folks that are responsible for this debacle...

Raw: Walmart Shelves in Springhill, Louisiana...

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

That's simply not true. Just like this whole made up controversy over the ww2 memorial isn't true. The park service said on the 1st day of the shutdown that "Pursuant to 36 C.F.R. 1.5, effective at 12:01 a.m. on October 1, 2013, all units of the National Park System nationwide are closed to public visitation and use, subject to the conditions and exceptions described below....

This closure determination and notice does not apply to First Amendment activities in the National Mall and Memorial Parks and areas administered by the NPS Liaison to the White House in Washington, D.C., and Independence National Historical Park in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Persons may continue to conduct First Amendment activities in these units in accordance with existing regulations."

From the Wall St Journal

"Under the same First Amendment rights that are allowing Honor Flight veterans and their families to visit the veterans memorials on the National Mall, other groups will be granted access to the park for First Amendment activities in accordance with National Park Service established regulations,..."

You have fallen for the spin again gary. :/

Originally Posted by garyv

Did you know it took more money and workers to barricade and guard the memorials and parks than it would have to just keep them open?

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

"Under the same First Amendment rights that are allowing Honor Flight veterans and their families to visit the veterans memorials on the National Mall, other groups will be granted access to the park for First Amendment activities in accordance with National Park Service established regulations,..."

You have fallen for the spin again gary. :/

Fallen for the spin? You must be willfully in denial with this stuff you come up with. There are thousands of videos on Youtube showing the parks and memorials barricaded with guards standing by. There are even videos of arrests being made of people violating the shutdown. Do you not watch any news?

By the way - I love how the Secretary of Defense was rushed out to his first military funeral EVER, after the benefit denial debacle. I know another "made up controversy" right? How in the heck do we keep coming up with these made up controversies?

LOL - We conservatives must be really good at getting the media to go along with us.

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MikeTucker

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Tim - that memorial isn't "trivial" to the brave men who fought in WWII. .

I don't think that's what Tim meant? I think he was just
talking about the fact that there are many issues that are
just as important, and quite a bit more urgent?

Originally Posted by garyv

We conservatives must be really good at getting the media to go along with us.

Again I'm trying to avoid partisan politics but I think that it is clear
to most people that one side certainly has better marketers... Their
Spin Doctors really know how to target their audience, and to create
and then strengthen and play off of several cognitive biases within
that audience.

It's really quite fascinating, and all marketers should take notes!

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

Again I'm trying to avoid partisan politics but I think that it is clear
to most people that one side certainly has better marketers... Their
Spin Doctors really know how to target their audience, and to create
and then strengthen and play off of several cognitive biases within
that audience.

It's really quite fascinating, and all marketers should take notes!

That's true - the democrat's marketing is far superior. They've managed to convince a majority that they can keep their healthcare if they like it. Which we all know by now is far from the truth. But somehow there are still people holding out that it's true.

I don't know if marketers should take notes though, because there are many marketers that have already mastered that type of marketing when they tried to sell **** Berries a few years ago. People were coerced into wanting to buy it, but then were surprised when the bills started coming in. Any normal marketer would end up in jail or paying huge fines for this type of bait and switch marketing that politicians get away with.

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

I don't think that's what Tim meant? I think he was just
talking about the fact that there are many issues that are
just as important, and quite a bit more urgent?

And my point was that this in and of itself is not the issue. Yes it's bad that vets were blocked from the memorial, but that's not the point. The point is the Admin using the very visible symbol as a point of pain for others. And then they try and accuse the other side of making up controversy. They actually hired lawyers to make sure they could legally bypass the recently passed bill that would have kept those memorials and parks open. It's surprising to me that people are still falling for this "marketing". Although I'm not entirely convinced that it's as much great marketing as it is the Barnum effect.

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MissTerraK 11 years ago

As I've said before, but not quite so bluntly...

WTF has happened to my country???

I don't even recognize it anymore!!!

Terra
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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Ridiculous. Wow! You are a piece of work! This WW2 memorial "issue" is small potatoes compared to many more real issues that are happening now and will be happening soon if the debt ceiling isn't raised and the government continues to be shutdown. We really will have millions march on DC in that case instead of these continued phoney contrived "protests" where hardly anyone shows up.

The debt ceiling is an issue ONLY because of A which is retaliation for B which is to prevent C because of D which happened because of E which happened because of F!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW, the SICK part is that people are talking about B(the shutdown) and TOTALLY disregarding F(the ridiculous increased spending), that got us here. OK, OK, B MIGHT stop, but if no concessions are made, we WILL have C, which is BANKRUPTCY! IRONICALLY, that would trigger A(DEFAULT) which legally should NOT be an issue at this point. The spending was stopped to PREVENT default!

Steve

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

The memorial is there because they fought, otherwise it wouldn't be there. Does every thing have to be explained to you? Good grief Tim I thought you were better educated than that.

And no it doesn't matter how many showed up. Their point was still communicated. And quite honestly - none of them really had to show up, just the barricades there alone communicate the fact that this admin is putting the hurt on people for political showmanship. Thankfully there's still enough smart people in this country that don't continually fall for those idiotic tactics.

Don't kid yourself - if the president wanted to keep from hurting the people, he could have passed an executive order to keep those places open. Rules and regulations have not stopped him from passing executive order in the past, so what's stopping him now? Everyone knows what's stopping him. He is. Because he wants these things shut down. He's falsely assuming someone else will get the blame.

It was just a slap in American faces political power stunt. If they have money to shut something down - they have the money to keep it open. Duh, right? They spent more shutting that thing down than keeping it open. They are playing with us. These politicians we have should ALL be driven out. Period. We need new blood - some honest blood. These people are jackals at best.

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Kay King

11 years ago

There is so much manipulation going on - and it's hard to see how anyone can excuse it....but they do.

I thought perhaps my son would have time off - he's a fed. Nope - he's working. The only people in his agency branch that were laid off are the two office workers who deal with the public. Everyone else there is working as usual.

I talked to a friend who works in another govt agency and in his office the word is the layoffs affect "anyone who deals with the public" ....only.

7.3 trillion debt in 2004 - 9.8 trillion debt in 2008 - 16.9 trillion debt today - 20.6 trillion in debt is predicted for 2017 by the CBO.

The numbers are what they are. The spending spree began with one administration and continued with a totally different one but the curve has gone up and up and up. At some point we need real leaders - on both sides - to say "enough".

What I'm hearing today is "we have to approve this because the market will go down"....really? The market is already propped up monthly with the money mill from Bernanke...is the country's budget in service to the stock market? There's something wrong there.

All the screaming about the sequester shows how reluctant D.C. is to slow spending. Part of this problem today is an attempt to stop further sequestration cuts from taking place as scheduled.

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MikeTucker

11 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

What I'm hearing today is "we have to approve this because the market will go down"....really? The market is already propped up monthly with the money mill from Bernanke...is the country's budget in service to the stock market? There's something wrong there.

I'm always the first to remind people that a country's economy is *not* the
same as a business or household.

That being said, if we're always borrowing against production of goods and
services that haven't been produced yet-- and doing it at a much faster rate
than the production!-- well, it doesn't matter what kind of organization we are...
Eventually it's going to catch-up with us!

EDIT: hmm, cut out some stuff I said about the deficit that would have
lead into too much politics.

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HeySal

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

I'm always the first to remind people that a country's economy is *not* the
same as a business or household.

That being said, if we're always borrowing against production of goods and
services that haven't been produced yet-- and doing it at a much faster rate
than the production!-- well, it doesn't matter what kind of organization we are...
Eventually it's going to catch-up with us!

EDIT: hmm, cut out some stuff I said about the deficit that would have
lead into too much politics.

Actually - the fiat currency that they have us under can't do anything other THAN produce debt - we pay for each bill printed - then pay interest on it as well. Where does the money to pay the printing and all that interest come from.....? Um.......

Severely huge differences between household and National expenses. That's why they have two different courses in school - Marco-econ and Micro-econ. That's also why there is a movement to end the fed. Our "freedom" was written off in 1917 when the fed was allowed in the door.

Tim - that memorial isn't "trivial" to the brave men who fought in WWII. Many of them were going to see it for the first - and last time in their lives and weren't allowed in. I call that an unforgivable slap in the face to those men who risked everything so you could come in here and trivialize it like that. You're getting to be an absolute brown shirt. Don't ever disrespect those fine men in here ever again.

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Kay King 11 years ago

The more I watch this spitting content between parties - and the more I hear from some "leaders" who should have retired before now....the more I don't care.

Why not just go off the cliff now, get the splat over with and start rebuilding? Instead, it seems like the D.C. teams just order a new can to kick.
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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by HeySal

Tim - that memorial isn't "trivial" to the brave men who fought in WWII.

You must have reading comprehension problems. First I didn't say the memorial was trivial. Second, did you not see that the vets were never really kept from the memorial? I posted what the Park Service said about letting people visit the memorials because of first amendment rights. From the accounts I have read, there really wasn't any issues on that first day. However, a certain media outlet and some opportunistic politicians used this small event as a way to create or manufacture an issue that didn't really exist. That's the spin part that Gary falls for every time.

Many of them were going to see it for the first - and last time in their lives and weren't allowed in.

As I said, read what the park service said. They acknowledge first amendment rights for individuals and small groups to see the memorial during the shutdown. This was an issued statement on day one.

You're getting to be an absolute brown shirt. Don't ever disrespect those fine men in here ever again.

Ridiculous! I didn't disrespect any ww2 vet. This whole thread is about these huge million whatever protests that don't turnout so well. Well, I think this last one was also a bust because to me, in my opinion, it was contrived, manufactured, and created in large part by certain billionaires and their media friends. Plus opportunistic political media whores used it to promote themselves.

By the way, a WW2 veteran I knew died a few weeks ago at the age of 88. He was my dad.

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MissTerraK 11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

...By the way, a WW2 veteran I knew died a few weeks ago at the age of 88. He was my dad.

Oh Tim! I'm so sorry to hear that. My condolences to you and your family!

Terra
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- MikeTucker 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MissTerraK
  
  Oh Tim! I'm so sorry to hear that. My condolences to you and your family!
  
  Terra
  
  Indeed, very sorry for your loss, Tim.
  
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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

I posted what the Park Service said about letting people visit the memorials because of first amendment rights. From the accounts I have read, there really wasn't any issues on that first day. However, a certain media outlet and some opportunistic politicians used this small event as a way to create or manufacture an issue that didn't really exist. That's the spin part that Gary falls for every time.

Do YOU have reading comprehension issues? Like I said above it was not a manufactured issue. It doesn't matter what the Park Service said - there are thousands of videos now on youtube showing the barricades and guards at memorials and parks all around the country. In fact I have an Aunt that was actually locked in at Yellow Stone National park. She posted on her facebook that an armed security guard locked them into their hotel and wouldn't let them leave to visit the park.

As much as you'd like to believe those that dispense your Koolaid Tim - these are not manufactured issues. Anyone with a brain and a computer knows that by now.

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Like I said above it was not a manufactured issue.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. In my opinion it was a phoney manufactured issue. Sure, there were barricades and guards. I haven't denied that. Saying these things happened because the admin wanted to make people feel pain tells me you have acquired a taste for cool aid yourself.

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree. In my opinion it was a phoney manufactured issue. Sure, there were barricades and guards. I haven't denied that. Saying these things happened because the admin wanted to make people feel pain tells me you have acquired a taste for cool aid yourself.

Of course they wanted it to be painful, otherwise there'd be absolutely no reason they wouldn't have passed before now the separate bills offered to fund the parks' openings. - But yes we'll have to agree to disagree.

The one good thing that has come out of this is that the shills in the Republican party have been exposed. It can only serve to make the party stronger over time.

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

Of course they wanted it to be painful, otherwise there'd be absolutely no reason they wouldn't have passed before now the separate bills offered to fund the parks' openings.

You can't think of one other reason why they wouldn't want to start adding parts of the government back one by one? Come on now. I can think of several real good reasons. For one, if they did that, Congress wouldn't likely have just passed a bill to open the whole government.

Heck, the real point here should be that this shutdown should have never happened. It got us nowhere, cost the economy tens of $billions, and made the US look like fools to the rest of the world. For what?

Hopefully, the real silver lining in all this will be that both sides will have realistic, honest negotiations to make some hard decision and choices. It really has to have both sides give some. I can dream anyways.

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seasoned

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You can't think of one other reason why they wouldn't want to start adding parts of the government back one by one? Come on now. I can think of several real good reasons. For one, if they did that, Congress wouldn't likely have just passed a bill to open the whole government.

There are parts that could have been closed with NO pain that would have saved MORE money!

Heck, the real point here should be that this shutdown should have never happened. It got us nowhere

You're right THERE! ********WHY******** is the deficit SO high? ******WHY****** is the government SO big? I spoke in another thread about common core. That will probably cost WELL OVER $500 per student year JUST for student materials! "Training"/etc... may cost HUNDREDS of thousands ADDITIONAL PER SCHOOL! *****WHY*****!?!?!?!? Why not pay NOTHING and have a BETTER educational system?
and the VACATIONS?!?!?!? The stupid films? GRANTS? FOREIGN AID?

, cost the economy tens of , and made the US look like fools to the rest of the world. For what?

HOW does it cost money to do NOTHING? If the cost is a GAIN(from licenses and tours), then WHY CLOSE IT? as for looking like fools? I guess you haven't been watching! The US looked like idiots YEARS ago!

Hopefully, the real silver lining in all this will be that both sides will have realistic, honest negotiations to make some hard decision and choices. It really has to have both sides give some. I can dream anyways.

Well, I checked! The "concessions" one side got amount to NOTHING! I am sure THEY know it, and you can bet the other side does.

Steve

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TimPhelan

11 years ago

Originally Posted by seasoned

Well, I checked! The "concessions" one side got amount to NOTHING! I am sure THEY know it, and you can bet the other side does.

Steve

The concessions I was talking about would be in the future. :/ I agree that there were not any concessions this time really. That's why it was such a huge defeat for the radicals on one side.

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TLTheLiberator

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

The concessions I was talking about would be in the future. :/ I agree that there were not any concessions this time really. That's why it was such a huge defeat for the radicals on one side.

The Economic Terrorists, Hostage Takers & the biggest threat to the American standard of living short, medium and long term have been temporarily defeated for now.

They have also clearly revealed themselves to another huge segment of the voting population.

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

You can't think of one other reason why they wouldn't want to start adding parts of the government back one by one? Come on now. I can think of several real good reasons. For one, if they did that, Congress wouldn't likely have just passed a bill to open the whole government.

And why do you think that is? They were actually willing to open over 90% of the government with separate bills. Why do you think Democrats refused to open that 90%? Anyone with any fore-site can play this out in their head. They wanted the electorate to put pressure on Republicans - and the only way to do that is to make it hurt. They were playing games - and most people saw through them, which is why the President's approval rating plummeted this week to an all time low. Can you just imagine what his approval ratings would be if he didn't have an army of media (or koolaid dispensers) propping him up all of the time? Plus he has an army of uninformed people drinking that koolaid.

For playing a game, the president has played it brilliantly though. Being a constitutional scholar he knew that he could split our party using the shills in our party that have no interest in our constitution. - But I don't think he anticipated we'd use that to reform the party.

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Kay King 11 years ago

The only thing worse than a sore loser - is a gloating winner.

The reason we've lost the ability to solve problems in a logical way is the trend toward right fighting on both sides. We all lose when that happens.
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TimPhelan

11 years ago

No games played really. Just sticking to the plan which the Pres stated many months ago: "I will not negotiate" with anyone who uses the threat of default and government shutdown as bargaining chips. They had to do that or else this type of crisis brinkmanship would keep on going. That was the main goal in all of this. We couldn't let it become a standard way of running a government. Hopefully, this will be the last time.

Originally Posted by garyv

And why do you think that is? They were actually willing to open over 90% of the government with separate bills. Why do you think Democrats refused to open that 90%? Anyone with any fore-site can play this out in their head. They wanted the electorate to put pressure on Republicans - and the only way to do that is to make it hurt. They were playing games - and most people saw through them, which is why the President's approval rating plummeted this week to an all time low. Can you just imagine what his approval ratings would be if he didn't have an army of media (or koolaid dispensers) propping him up all of the time? Plus he has an army of uninformed people drinking that koolaid.

For playing a game, the president has played it brilliantly though. Being a constitutional scholar he knew that he could split our party using the shills in our party that have no interest in our constitution. - But I don't think he anticipated we'd use that to reform the party.

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by TimPhelan

No games played really. Just sticking to the plan which the Pres stated many months ago: "I will not negotiate" with anyone who uses the threat of default and government shutdown as bargaining chips. They had to do that or else this type of crisis brinkmanship would keep on going. That was the main goal in all of this. We couldn't let it become a standard way of running a government. Hopefully, this will be the last time.

Oh it won't be the last time. - Lest we all forget that Obama was actually the Ted Cruz of 2006. Holding George Bush at the same debt ceiling saying - and I quote:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies." Barack Obama

Had he held true to half of the lies he spouted to become president - or even those that got him re-elected, this would be a great Country. And don't try and come back with "tea party is blocking him...waaaah!" Because that won't work. You can see from his quote above that he's the polar opposite of who he once claimed to be.

Not everyone is so naive to believe what the president has to say these days. There are still those blindly following though. It's sad.

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MikeTucker

11 years ago

Originally Posted by garyv

he's the polar opposite of who he once claimed to be.
[/SIZE][/FONT] It's sad.

I regret things I said a few hours ago, haha

If we all had millions of people combing through our every statement
in an attempt to paint us as hypocrites because of things we said
years ago, well I am sure I would be near the top of the list!

Even when you are very passionate about something and believe
your opinion will never change, new experiences and new information
should at least get you to ask yourself some questions.

When that is not happening, that is when it is "blindly following".

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garyv

11 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeTucker

I regret things I said a few hours ago, haha

If we all had millions of people combing through our every statement
in an attempt to paint us as hypocrites because of things we said
years ago, well I am sure I would be near the top of the list!

Even when you are very passionate about something and believe
your opinion will never change, new experiences and new information
should at least get you to ask yourself some questions.

When that is not happening, that is when it is "blindly following".

That's all well and good in normal life - but not when you're basing a presidential campaign on your disturbing indecisiveness. By the way that quote was only 2 years before he ran for president. Read it again. He's now either being a hypocrite or he was a liar during his campaign. It has nothing to do with his opinion changing. The reason we have a limit on how young you can be to be president, is because we expect our president by this age to already be educated and have a certain amount of unflappable wisdom formed. So that when you vote for him he's not constantly changing with the political winds. This president has been on both sides of just about every issue. You'd struggle hard to name an issue that I couldn't find quotes from him on both sides.

Plus it's one thing to change your mind on an issue - it's another thing to chastise someone for the very same behavior you practically ran your campaign on.

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seasoned

11 years ago

BTW NOW buffet has said something I have said OFTEN. OH, he is a bit more arrogant, and allows for COLA and one way income changes, which I WOULDN'T. ALSO, I would want this to be true of ALL government workers. It would save possibly TRILLIONS the FIRST day! BUT.....

I hope you all read this and Forward it on to at least 20,,,

Warren Buffett, in a recent interview with CNBC, offers one of the best quotes about the debt ceiling:

"I could end the deficit in 5 minutes," he told CNBC. "You just
pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more
than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible
for re-election.

The 26th amendment (granting the right to vote for 18 year-olds)
took only 3 months & 8 days to be ratified! Why? Simple!
The people demanded it. That was in 1971 - before computers, e-mail,
cell phones, etc.

Of the 27 amendments to the Constitution, seven (7) took one (1) year
or less to become the law of the land - all because of public pressure.

Warren Buffet is asking each addressee to forward this email to
a minimum of twenty people on their address list; in turn ask
each of those to do likewise.

In three days, most people in The United States of America will
have the message. This is one idea that really should be passed
around.

Congressional Reform Act of 2012

1. No Tenure / No Pension.

A Congressman/woman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they ' re out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.

All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the
Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into
the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the
American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all
Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise.
Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and
participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the
American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen/women are void effective 12/1/1

3

. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen/women.

Congress made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in
Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers
envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their
term(s), then go home and back to work.

If each person contacts a minimum of twenty people then it will
only take three days for most people (in the U.S. ) to receive
the message. Don ' t you think it ' s time?

THIS IS HOW YOU FIX CONGRESS!

If you agree, pass it on. If not, delete.

You are one of my 20+ - Please keep it going, and thanks

Steve

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